If God existed, can he be the nicest being?

[xeverex18]

So i was just thinking that even though i am not religios, i thought it was pretty fuccked up that God would only let people who are religous go on to heaven. If God only wanted people who worshipped him to live with him then I wouldnt want to go to that heaven anyways. Would someone so righteous really make humans just to serve him? Sounds like a jew to me.

Sarcasm but also some real thoughts added.

[RedvsBlue]

Congratulations, you've discovered one of the core inconsistancies of the christian religion.

[mykevermin]

Sounds like a jew to me.

I'd punch you in the fucking face for saying something like that for real, regardless of how humorous or sarcastic you intended to be.

Congratulations, you're in college and approaching a 10th-grade level of intellectual creativity.

[SpazX]

Come on myke, he's just a late bloomer. I personally didn't think about it that much until the 11th grade...

[zionoverfire]

Just wait until you learn what bullshit they say to increase donations.

[Quillion]

I'd punch you in the fucking face for saying something like that for real, regardless of how humorous or sarcastic you intended to be.

Congratulations, you're in college and approaching a 10th-grade level of intellectual creativity.

roffles.

Seriously, with our finite minds, how can we comprehend the nature of the infinite? Ponder, yes. Understand, never.

[eshbums]

God made fuzzy kittens to pet, cold beer to drink, women to lapdance for tips, and retards like you to throw snowballs at.

How can you not love a God like that. He's da man!

[elprincipe]

anti-Semitism = bad
you = teh suck

[GuilewasNK]

So i was just thinking that even though i am not religios, i thought it was pretty fuccked up that God would only let people who are religous go on to heaven. If God only wanted people who worshipped him to live with him then I wouldnt want to go to that heaven anyways. Would someone so righteous really make humans just to serve him? Sounds like a jew to me.

Sarcasm but also some real thoughts added.

Religion (at least in most denominations of Christianity) is supposed to be about living a righteous path and doing what God asks of you. It's analgous to a parent/child relationship. Parent wants child to follow rules, God wants man to follow rules. As a kid, if the rules aren't followed you can't go to the playground at McDonald's. I would imagine God would be the same way in regards to Heaven. :roll:


Religion is another type of philosophy. I have beliefs that there has to be more to our existence than what we can see or understand. I can't say what it could be. No one can. I have been to church. I still go from time to time. It helps to put a perspective on my own feelings. But religion is full of paradox and clashing ideas. It not much more different than life without religious elements included. No matter how black and white things usually are in our lives, there is always a shade of grey that isn't that far away.

*end tangent* :lol:

[camoor]

Religion (at least in most denominations of Christianity) is supposed to be about living a righteous path and doing what God asks of you.

Yeah - the "righteous" path

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.(Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NAB)

Take your son, your only son – yes, Isaac, whom you love so much – and go to the land of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains, which I will point out to you." (Genesis 22:1-18)

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

[GuilewasNK]

Yeah - the "righteous" path

Hence why I used the word "supposed" in my original post.

[penmyst]

@ OP:

Is god nice? What is your understanding of nice?

Maybe you are confusing "nice" with "wimpy"?

God has given you the greatest gift he can bestow. Freedom.

He allows you your individual freedom of thought, will, and action.

He does not violate your freedom. Let me explain:

If you believe in god as the all powerful father, does it not stand to reason that he could make you do anything he wanted? Literally force you to do anything he desired? He can bend your mind and body to do whatever he wishes.

But he does not. He has granted you freedom of will. And along with doing so, he is respecting you.

What does that mean? Think of it this way- when someone forces you to do something, how much impact does that have on your growth and understanding? If you have not consciously made the choice to do it yourself, your personal being has been weakened and violated. However, if you come about the decision yourself- you are strengthened. You grow as a person.

That is the essence of life and freedom. It is important that we find our way through our own choices. It's why sometimes we have to learn things the hard way. Sometimes we are unable to learn from others. It doesn't have the same impact as learning ourselves. That you make the choice yourself and are not coerced is very important to your personal growth and health.

God as a being does not set down rules to make your life difficult. He does not ask that you obey him and worship him for self aggrandizement. These rules are part of HIS kingdom and HIS boundaries. He is letting you know what he considers acceptable and what he will not accept. His rules are intended for your benefit. Living with/in sin destroys your soul. It is evil, he will not accept it in his kingdom and does not desire it for you.

But they are HIS boundaries. Just as he respects our boundaries of personal self, so must we respect his boundaries. He entirely allows US to decide our path. He respects our boundaries of personal self.

That should not be misinterpreted as acceptance of deleterious behaviors.

It sounds as if you want to have your freedom, but are angry with god when he allots consequences to that freedom and enforces such. If he did not, that wouldn't be "nice", that would be "wimpy".

You seem to be struggling with your relationship to god. I pray he can work in your heart. At least if you are questioning him, it means that you are thinking about your eternal soul. It's a start, so that's a good thing. :)

[SpazX]

You're right, if god accepted everybody he'd just be a hippy liberal. Unconditional love is for suckers.

Don't believe in jesus? Well I guess you'll just have to burn in hell for eternity. God just keeps it real like that.

[mykevermin]

:rofl: penmyst is a conservative and a christian! The most common contradiction of our time! Awesome!

I hope you know you're going to hell for participating in capitalism, seeing as how usury was considered a sin of the highest order in the old testament. That and shellfish.

I personally am a good individual, but I'm really worried about that 99 cent popcorn shrimp I had from Long John Silver's the other day. Participating in capitalism AND eating shellfish in one fell swoop; it's like the sinning equivalent of shooting tequila and chasing it down with a beer!

[crazytalkx]

Mess with him and he'll kill your first born. I'd keep an eye on that foo.

[Ikohn4ever]

you are fool to think if there is an infinitely powerful being he would have pathetic human emotions

[2poor]

you are fool to think if there is an infinitely powerful being he would have pathetic human emotions

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a1/Futurama_morbo.jpg

[Full_Throttle]

Well, I think God does not exist. Whatsoever. I have disproven her existence using 4 different forms of logic, and I could probably come up with more if I really tried. "But wait! How were we made? You can't answer that, you antichrist!" Well I can. Humans can make life too. I believe that many years ago, there were many other beings greater than us. That's that.

[elprincipe]

Well, I think God does not exist. Whatsoever. I have disproven her existence using 4 different forms of logic, and I could probably come up with more if I really tried. "But wait! How were we made? You can't answer that, you antichrist!" Well I can. Humans can make life too. I believe that many years ago, there were many other beings greater than us. That's that.

I'm sure we would all be interested to hear how you have come up with a way to prove negatives.

[mykevermin]

I'm sure we would all be interested to hear how you have come up with a way to prove negatives.

Or how you seem to laud logical statements, yet don't mind tautological ones. "Humans can make life," indeed.

[Brak]

Just remember, man wrote the Bible and it has been edited by various kings and men ever since.

[Yusuke-Urameshi-]

Who created God?

[Brak]

The idea of something being absolute is hard for the human mind to comprehend.

[Full_Throttle]

Anything that is believed in by people that share their thoughts exists. Therefore, Bigfoot, The Loch Ness monster, and God exist. For small children, Power Rangers exist, etc etc.

[Derwood43]

:rofl: penmyst is a conservative and a christian! The most common contradiction of our time! Awesome!

I hope you know you're going to hell for participating in capitalism, seeing as how usury was considered a sin of the highest order in the old testament. That and shellfish.

I personally am a good individual, but I'm really worried about that 99 cent popcorn shrimp I had from Long John Silver's the other day. Participating in capitalism AND eating shellfish in one fell swoop; it's like the sinning equivalent of shooting tequila and chasing it down with a beer!

Your stupidity is surpassed only by your ignorance. But hey, it's bliss, right?

ass.

[xeverex18]

Well, I think God does not exist. Whatsoever. I have disproven her existence using 4 different forms of logic, and I could probably come up with more if I really tried. "But wait! How were we made? You can't answer that, you antichrist!" Well I can. Humans can make life too. I believe that many years ago, there were many other beings greater than us. That's that. Lol, disproven her existence. Man would be pretty facked if god was a she, ni?

[mykevermin]

Your stupidity is surpassed only by your ignorance. But hey, it's bliss, right?

ass.

10 But all creatures in the seas or streams that do not have fins and scales—whether among all the swarming things or among all the other living creatures in the water—you are to detest. 11 And since you are to detest them, you must not eat their meat and you must detest their carcasses. 12 Anything living in the water that does not have fins and scales is to be detestable to you.

25 "If you lend money to any of my people with you who is poor, you shall not be to him as a creditor; neither shall you charge him interest.

26 If you take your neighbor's garment as collateral, you shall restore it to him before the sun goes down,

27 for that is his only covering, it is his garment for his skin. What would he sleep in? It will happen, when he cries to me, that I will hear, for I am gracious.

The bible condemns usury more than it does homosexuality. What is this ignorance you speak of?

[Man with the Plan]

AUGHHH! BURNING...IN...HELL! Just kidding kids. But really, I don;t get this whole "Jesus" thing. I know the basics, But I;m not sure they taught me about jesus in hebrew school.

[Man with the Plan]

And does jesus hate gay people?

[coltyhuxx]

The bible condemns usury more than it does homosexuality. What is this ignorance you speak of?

Bible condoms!!?? WTF?

[Quillion]

The bible condemns usury more than it does homosexuality. What is this ignorance you speak of?
Usury (Collecting interest on a loan) <> Capitalism
Capitalism is an economic system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_system) in which the means of production (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Means_of_production) are mostly privately owned, and capital (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_%28economics%29) is invested (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investment) in the production (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Production), distribution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution) and other trade (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade) of goods (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goods) and services (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Services), for profit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profit). These include factors of production (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factors_of_production) such as land (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_%28economics%29) and other natural resources (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_resource), labor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor) and capital goods (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_goods).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
Likewise, in the parable of the prodigal son (Luke 15:11-14), the Lord taught a lesson on spiritual neglect by picturing a young man squandering his material possessions. Simply put, the Bible teaches a very important principle of economics: wastefulness (i.e., the failure to conserve capital) produces want (cf. Proverbs 21:20; 18:9; 29:3).
http://www.allanturner.com/money02.html

As for shellfish, you're right, it does explicitly reject shellfish. Kosher and Halal standards both reject pork for the same reason. Unsafe sanitation techniques. Remember always that the Bible was written thousands of years ago.

Leviticus is just a book of outdated rules anyway. The real message is contained in the parables, particularly those of Jesus.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, the Quran explicitly forbids not just accepting debt (usury), but accumulating it as well (borrowing); however, it also supports capitalism. Give me time to find the Sura.

[Quillion]

I believe that many years ago, there were many other beings greater than us. That's that.

Xenu?

[mykevermin]

Leviticus is just a book of outdated rules anyway.

Where does it say that in the bible?

[elprincipe]

And does jesus hate gay people?

Christians are taught to hate the sin and love the sinner, so no, no hating people, just their sins (IE homosexuality in this case).

[AshesofWake]

Who created God?


i've always wondered about that...

[Quillion]

Where does it say that in the bible?
You believe everything you read?

[Moxio]

Damn, religion arguments.

Truth: they are never worth it.

[GuilewasNK]

EDIT: Forgot to mention, the Quran explicitly forbids not just accepting debt (usury), but accumulating it as well (borrowing); however, it also supports capitalism. Give me time to find the Sura.

:-k That seems odd.

[SpazX]

:-k That seems odd.

I wouldn't find it odd, in both the Bible and Quran you can probably find verses that both support and condemn just about anything.

[Skelah]

'its only ok when southpark jokes about jews or real people on tv and or in person when you do it online its somehow so cruel and wrong'

[seanr1221]

The bible says you are not allowed to shave.

[mykevermin]

You believe everything you read?

If I did, I'd have a hard time coming up with questions for what you type. ;)

Nevertheless, I've never really read anything that satisfactorially explained why some parts of the bible should be given less attention than others - why the *word of God*, should we believe it to be nothing less than that, should not be given credence in our day to day lives.

Besides, the only bible passage that can even be construed as to maligning homosexuality is in leviticus as well - try telling me that Christians truly believe that ol' Levi is outdated.

[Brak]

The bible says you are not allowed to shave.
You're going straight to Hell if you're uncircumcised, thanks to King James.

[camoor]

Christians are taught to hate the sin and love the sinner, so no, no hating people, just their sins (IE homosexuality in this case).

“Then Jesus said to Simon, ‘Don’t be afraid; from now on you will catch men.’”
Luke 5:1-11
Key Verse: 5:10b


:-o

[Quillion]

:-o
Good job at quoting "Fishers of Men" out of context. Jesus was asking the fishermen to preach.

If I did, I'd have a hard time coming up with questions for what you type. ;) touche. :)
Nevertheless, I've never really read anything that satisfactorially explained why some parts of the bible should be given less attention than others - why the *word of God*, should we believe it to be nothing less than that, should not be given credence in our day to day lives.

Besides, the only bible passage that can even be construed as to maligning homosexuality is in leviticus as well - try telling me that Christians truly believe that ol' Levi is outdated. I don't know that I'm a typical Christian. Hell, I don't even know that I'm a Christian, but I can answer that.

Most moderates do believe that. See, God gave us minds, we certainly don't believe that he doesn't intend for us to use them. A silly book, written thousands of years ago tells me to do something, I need to examine that in the daily context of my life. After all, the message is what's really important. I think Douglas Adams summed it all up best:
And then, one Thursday, nearly two thousand years after one man had been nailed to a tree for saying how great it would be to be nice to people for a change,

[seanr1221]

I'm a roman catholic myself, and disagree with a lot the church says now of days. I really think people need to open their minds up a little bit. I went to catholic school for 12 years of my life, and the worst was my high school senior theology teacher. She followed EVERYTHING she was told. Oh boy did I have a fun time with her in class when she said something like, "Homosexuality is a sin. They choose to be that way, and they can't have children through sex anyway. This is why they should not marry. However, it is not a sin if they just live their lives w/o engaging in homosexual activities."

When I asked her why anyone would CHOSE to be discriminated against, she couldn't give me a straight answer. She also couldn't give me a straight answer when I asked why my sister with autism had to recieve confession before going for her communion. Can you guys believe that? They made my sister with special needs confess sins.

[xeverex18]

I'm a roman catholic myself, and disagree with a lot the church says now of days. I really think people need to open their minds up a little bit. I went to catholic school for 12 years of my life, and the worst was my high school senior theology teacher. She followed EVERYTHING she was told. Oh boy did I have a fun time with her in class when she said something like, "Homosexuality is a sin. They choose to be that way, and they can't have children through sex anyway. This is why they should not marry. However, it is not a sin if they just live their lives w/o engaging in homosexual activities."

When I asked her why anyone would CHOSE to be discriminated against, she couldn't give me a straight answer. She also couldn't give me a straight answer when I asked why my sister with autism had to recieve confession before going for her communion. Can you guys believe that? They made my sister with special needs confess sins.thats just fucking retarded. Can autistic people even complete a sentence?

[seanr1221]

Well autism is a spectrum disorder, so it can range from severe autism to very mild (asperger's). My sister has what is called PDD, which is a mild form of autism, however not as mild as aspergers. She has speach delays and trouble putting together sentences, so I think they asked my mom to make a list of sins my sister committed and the priest read them to her and then absolved her. Yea you know what the sins were like? "I went into my brothers room and took his markers without asking."

It made me so angry they made her get confession...was it so wrong for my mom to want my sister to get communion? Of course not. She wants my sister to have SOME normalcy in her life.

[Riyonuk]

I dont think I can ever think there is a real god, although I do belive in him (just in case) due to the fact that all we have of him is a book...I mean it could have been edited, or maybe set up for an elaborate joke by cheesepeople or something. Maybe I just need to go to church more.

God is the nicest person, he gave life, and he does not control you.

I also just found out about the anti-christ that will someday walk the land...man that sounds so cool.

WTH!? seanr1221 (http://cheapassgamer.com/forums/member.php?u=36230) , we cannot shave? If thats true then I consider that unfair due to the fact that teachers at my school force me to shave. So am I like going to be smited one day walking home from gamestop?

[camoor]

Good job at quoting "Fishers of Men" out of context. Jesus was asking the fishermen to preach.

It's called a joke.

[camoor]

I also just found out about the anti-christ that will someday walk the land...man that sounds so cool.

Christian mythology has it's literary qualities; I like how Satan is the ruler of the material world (the one that obeys the natural laws of science) and Jesus is the ruler of a magical paradise that every follower of god goes to when they die, where these followers are rewarded by the chance to reunite with dead loved ones, angel wings, icecream, virgins, and whatever else they want.

Which one is the lord of illusion again?

[Duo_Maxwell]

Well autism is a spectrum disorder, so it can range from severe autism to very mild (asperger's). My sister has what is called PDD, which is a mild form of autism, however not as mild as aspergers. She has speach delays and trouble putting together sentences, so I think they asked my mom to make a list of sins my sister committed and the priest read them to her and then absolved her. Yea you know what the sins were like? "I went into my brothers room and took his markers without asking."

It made me so angry they made her get confession...was it so wrong for my mom to want my sister to get communion? Of course not. She wants my sister to have SOME normalcy in her life.

Wait... was it her first communion? As in she haven't recieved that sacrament before?

Because if it was everyone is supposed to recieve the sacrament of reconciliation (i.e. confession) before they recieve communion for the first time. Actually I think it's still technically a part of catholic canon that you're supposed to have confession before taking any communion, first or not. Though I don't believe most churches (if any really) adhere to that law anymore. It's sort of built into the mass, asking for forgiveness that is, (called the Penitential Rite IIRC), but it could be possible they still practice the older laws (for some odd reason).

[Brak]

Christian mythology has it's literary qualities; I like how Satan is the ruler of the material world (the one that obeys the natural laws of science) and Jesus is the ruler of a magical paradise that every follower of god goes to when they die, where these followers are rewarded by the chance to reunite with dead loved ones, angel wings, icecream, virgins, and whatever else they want.

Which one is the lord of illusion again?
If you choose to misinterpret "material", sure.

[camoor]

If you choose to misinterpret "material", sure.

I think you make a fair point, however I'm afraid this conversation is headed for a dead-end because I just don't interpret the books chosen for the OT bible literally, which is the direction this coversation would eventually turn.

[David85]

God is the most evil thing in the universe. The devil is the nicest.

[Skelah]

how come christians dont get that the way they see scientology and cults is how we who arnt christians see christianity? its pretty silly and when someone trys to get into a deep converstation with me about there faith I pitty them .

[worx]

If God can make such a heavy mountain, God can't lift it. This means there is something God cannot do. But if God can't make such a heavy mountain, then that is also something God cannot do. If God makes a mountain, and then can lift it, then it didn't make the mountain heavy enough, and perhaps God cannot make it heavier. So, can a god do everything? Is there a limit to what gods can do, too?

[Skelah]

it takes years of family influence for someone to put there time and effort into going against all there common sense and putting faith in something a small child could pick apart in seconds.

8-)

[elprincipe]

If God can make such a heavy mountain, God can't lift it. This means there is something God cannot do. But if God can't make such a heavy mountain, then that is also something God cannot do. If God makes a mountain, and then can lift it, then it didn't make the mountain heavy enough, and perhaps God cannot make it heavier. So, can a god do everything? Is there a limit to what gods can do, too?

Is this what they teach you kids in 8th grade nowadays?

[NesHavok]

think about this..... If you were God and you made humans, and overtime humans didnt respect you, and they didnt believe in you would you let all of theminto heaven? I think not...

[NesHavok]

Read the bible

[NesHavok]

If God can make such a heavy mountain, God can't lift it. This means there is something God cannot do. But if God can't make such a heavy mountain, then that is also something God cannot do. If God makes a mountain, and then can lift it, then it didn't make the mountain heavy enough, and perhaps God cannot make it heavier. So, can a god do everything? Is there a limit to what gods can do, too?

thats something people say to be sarcastic of religion, even evolution and any religion other than christianity can be treated the same way.. But did you know that all of the prophecies in the bibleexcept for a few have been proven true.... the rest will come true in time

[NesHavok]

Christian mythology has it's literary qualities; I like how Satan is the ruler of the material world (the one that obeys the natural laws of science) and Jesus is the ruler of a magical paradise that every follower of god goes to when they die, where these followers are rewarded by the chance to reunite with dead loved ones, angel wings, icecream, virgins, and whatever else they want.

Which one is the lord of illusion again? actually in heaven there are no virgins cause everyone is in a different form where there are no penis or poons, excuse my french...

[SpazX]

think about this..... If you were God and you made humans, and overtime humans didnt respect you, and they didnt believe in you would you let all of theminto heaven? I think not...

Isn't that a human, vengeful thought pattern? Shouldn't God be above petty human traits? Afterall, all-loving would mean God loved all, not just those that believed in him/her/it/whatever.


actually in heaven there are no virgins cause everyone is in a different form where there are no penis or poons, excuse my french...

You're seriously 24? Excuse my french for saying penis/poons?

Anyway, can you cite that verse from the bible?

[RedvsBlue]

actually in heaven there are no virgins cause everyone is in a different form where there are no penis or poons, excuse my french...
Well what the hell's the point of Heaven being a reward if you don't get to fuck?

[camoor]

Is this what they teach you kids in 8th grade nowadays?

Better to teach logic then creationism.

[camoor]

actually in heaven there are no virgins cause everyone is in a different form where there are no penis or poons, excuse my french...

No poons - Oh Noes!!

[mykevermin]

actually in heaven there are no virgins cause everyone is in a different form where there are no penis or poons, excuse my french...

Such language will *NOT* be tolerated!

BACK TO THE HOUSE OF PAIN!

BACK TO THE HOUSE OF PAIN!

BACK TO THE HOUSE OF PAIN!

[xeverex18]

think about this..... If you were God and you made humans, and overtime humans didnt respect you, and they didnt believe in you would you let all of theminto heaven? I think not... God should not care for the respect humans give to him more than the respect humans give to each other and the earth. And you know 3/4 of the world doesnt give a shit about one another. That would also include me because there are many things i do not have respect for.. bums (can i have a dollar).

And there are things that "God" cannot do. Is that so hard to believe? If God knew if you are a good or bad person, why dont he let you go to heaven b4 you die? So he cannot predict the future. If God knew who respect him, then why did he ask that dude (forgive me for not remembering) to kill his child. So God can not read a man's heart.

If God is real, he is a creator just like humans. He created us, as humans create their own children. He would not know how they will turn out.

Do you still have your dingy if you go to hell? I do not believe I will lose my wewe if i do go to heaven. I can always ask God to revert me back to my original form though right :)

[eldad9]

So i was just thinking that even though i am not religios, i thought it was pretty fuccked up that God would only let people who are religous go on to heaven. If God only wanted people who worshipped him to live with him then I wouldnt want to go to that heaven anyways. Would someone so righteous really make humans just to serve him? Sounds like a jew to me.

Sarcasm but also some real thoughts added.

Look, kid.

When I make up a story, I get to decide how the characters in my story behave. When you make up your own invisible monster, you decide on its superpowers and attitude or whatnot.

There's plenty of religions where signing up before dying (or even dying before the religion was founded) isn't the deciding factor; some don't even have heaven or hell.

What's scary to me is that you're probably from a christian background - and you act like it's either that or nothing - you don't even seem aware of anything else out there (and hey, if nothing tickles your fancy, roll your own!).

I've read just your post, none of the replies yet, so sorry if I'm being mr. redundancy man.

And just for fun:

http://www.rotten.com/library/religion/
http://www.infidels.org/
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

[eldad9]

how come christians dont get that the way they see scientology and cults is how we who arnt christians see christianity? its pretty silly and when someone trys to get into a deep converstation with me about there faith I pitty them .

Scientology is a well oiled money machine with no redeeming qualities; the "church" part was added to avoid paying taxes. Practically all real religions mean well (or used to, at some point) and have actual upsides.

[eldad9]

Well, I think God does not exist. Whatsoever. I have disproven her existence using 4 different forms of logic, and I could probably come up with more if I really tried.

You haven't.

Religion evolved over the years; while many of the early religions could be disproved (break the idol, climb to the top of mount Olympus, etc) the current ones are fashioned in a way that makes them impossible to contradict.

Of course, it's very easy to come up with this kind of stuff that can't be proven or disproven. It doesn't make it true.

[eldad9]

WTH!? seanr1221 (http://cheapassgamer.com/forums/member.php?u=36230) , we cannot shave? If thats true then I consider that unfair due to the fact that teachers at my school force me to shave. So am I like going to be smited one day walking home from gamestop?

Leviticus sez:
19:27 Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.

19:28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.

Straight from the horses mouth. No shaving, and probably no tattoos.

Leviticus 20 tells us to kill the gays, witches, adulterers, those who give their seed to the ammonites, and people who cuss their parents.

[Brak]

I think one thing the Bible proves is that man can ruin a good thing.

Man's more-than-apparent editing of the Bible, throughout the ages, is pretty funny... but I don't think it's proper enough evidence to disprove God, or to make God look cruel -- which people use quite often, in regards to cruelty.

Isn't it a little on the contradictory side to disprove God because, in some instances, he's cruel in the Bible?

[eldad9]

Yes, yes, you can't prove or disprove god / gods at all. You can argue the morality and other merits of certain texts, which may have special significance to certain religions.

[CorporalJackson]

Let me ask you this how can someone go to heaven if they don't believe that God is real? It's like if you say that I'm not real and then expect me to let you in my house when you have killed someone. It makes no sense that you even can think this way. But, you will just argue this most likely but no matter you will find out someday. I fell sorry for any of you going to hell wish I could change your minds :( still Jesus loves you even if you don't believe in him :)

Also about all these cracks about churches scamming ppl into "donating". You obviously don't give a tithe and have never attended a real Born again church. 75% of my Church's money head strait to other country to help ppl and to missionaries. You are just to ignorant to actually look into any real truths :) Jesus loves you

[camoor]

Let me ask you this how can someone go to heaven if they don't believe that God is real? It's like if you say that I'm not real and then expect me to let you in my house when you have killed someone.

Yes, I'm sure that's exactly what it's like.

Now go read your New Testament and leave the grown-ups alone.

[CorporalJackson]

Yes, I'm sure that's exactly what it's like.

Now go read your New Testament and leave the grown-ups alone.

this was an example said at a bible school and well I kinda changed the words and the instance and well... I messed it up sorry. I do know what I'm talking about though I have completed ISOM and am attending rheum bible training school. I just don't know how to argue this kinda stuff to well yet that some of what I'm learning sorry if I miss represented anything its hard to deal with ppl on "there" lvl hehehe

and I'm not religious at all I am just striving to be like Jesus like EVERYONE should. I am a tongues speaking believer that Jesus Christ was crucified on the cross for our sins and was raised 3 days latter and that he is the son of God just like the Bible says which means I'm saved :)

P.S. I have read the New testament :)

[CorporalJackson]

also just for people info the bible has been proven to be one of the most accurate historical books. As in locations, dates and, cities proven by other types of books diaries former rulers and just going to site of ruined cities like Sodom and Gomorrah. A group of scientists went to the site trying to disprove the bible and found lard abouts of tar and such.

[Quillion]

also just for people info the bible has been proven to be one of the most accurate historical books. As in locations, dates and, cities proven by other types of books diaries former rulers and just going to site of ruined cities like Sodom and Gomorrah. A group of scientists went to the site trying to disprove the bible and found lard abouts of tar and such.

I think you're trying to say large amounts of tar and such. I didn't realize that tar wasn't a naturally occuring phenomenon. Did they find a pillar of salt too?

Nobody knows the actual location of Sodom and Gomorrah, since the names for the two cities were given after the destruction. Sodom is hebrew for "Burnt" and Gomorrah is hebrew for "A Ruined Heap".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodom_and_Gomorrah

Maybe if you learned some actual history, you might discover that as a historical text the Bible is rather lacking.

[camoor]

I think one thing the Bible proves is that man can ruin a good thing.

Man's more-than-apparent editing of the Bible, throughout the ages, is pretty funny... but I don't think it's proper enough evidence to disprove God, or to make God look cruel -- which people use quite often, in regards to cruelty.

Isn't it a little on the contradictory side to disprove God because, in some instances, he's cruel in the Bible?

What was the good thing? The only time the Christian God is not cruel is when that petulant tyrant gets his way.

And before you point at the Jebus, take a look at this little snippet on family values:

Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn "a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law--a man's enemies will be the members of his own household." (Matthew 10:34-36)

Mission accomplished.

[eldad9]

Let me ask you this how can someone go to heaven if they don't believe that God is real? It's like if you say that I'm not real and then expect me to let you in my house when you have killed someone. It makes no sense that you even can think this way. But, you will just argue this most likely but no matter you will find out someday. I fell sorry for any of you going to hell wish I could change your minds :( still Jesus loves you even if you don't believe in him :)

So:
You believe in this entity, with no proof of its existence (if there was any proof, no faith would be needed).
You believe that upon death, it has the power to - and does - send us to one of two places.
And you're arguing about what rules it uses to make its decision?

Your example doesn't work because in it we're doing the "expecting", not you.

And remember, we're going to your hell according to what we believe in, not you. As it happens, according to other religions, you're going to their version of hell because you don't believe in them.

What a nice piece of advertising! Suppose pepsico could convince people they would be granted eternal joy for consuming their products and eternal pain for choosing something else - all after dying. Nobody can prove its not the truth, and people who are conned into it would be too scared to switch brands (or stopping drinking sodas altogether, which would be much better for them). How wonderful for business!

You are just to ignorant to actually look into any real truths :) Jesus loves you

Truths? That's what you believe in. Again: modern religions are constructed so that there's no way to prove or disprove them.

There are billions of people that think your religion is wrong, there's is the truth, and they'd love to teach you about it. Face it: it's what you believe. It's not "the truth". If you choose to accept it as the truth, go ahead - as long as you make the choice for yourself, and that's it.

[Brak]

What was the good thing? The only time the Christian God is not cruel is when that petulant tyrant gets his way.

And before you point at the Jebus, take a look at this little snippet on family values:



Mission accomplished.
Well, as per all of your arguments, you're manipulating and sculpting everything said, up to this point, and using evidence to your advantage, which delves you deeper into ignoring what it was you're actually arguing about. In this case, you're attempting to argue about nothing:

As I've mentioned before, the Bible was written and edited by man -- this is obvious.

God's "cruelty" was crafted by man, to instill "the fear of God" into his believers, so they don't stray away, otherwise.

Again, the counterintuity of using the Bible as a catalyst to disprove the Bible is a round-about kinda circle.

[evanft]

Why do I feel the need to post the "God Listens....TO SLAYER!!" pic again?

[eldad9]

also just for people info the bible has been proven to be one of the most accurate historical books. As in locations, dates and, cities proven by other types of books diaries former rulers and just going to site of ruined cities like Sodom and Gomorrah. A group of scientists went to the site trying to disprove the bible and found large abouts of tar and such.

I'm scared that somebody would think this makes sense.

The bible's a jumble of books written by many people over centuries; it contains history, stories, legend, and mythology.

I love these stories people tell each other - "bad people - you know, scientists - tried to do something bad (against god) - but they were punished by having it backfire on them. we win!"

Scientists are concerned with facts. Like I said, you can't prove or disprove modern religions. So, large amounts of tar. Does that tell you a magical entity destroyed those cities? How? Nobody's saying they never existed. But just because california experiences earthquakes once in a while does not mean Lex Luthor is real and attacking it.

[both posts made much too early in the morning, and so contain stupid spelling and grammatical errors]

[Brak]

It's not "the truth". If you choose to accept it as the truth, go ahead - as long as you make the choice for yourself, and that's it.
It's a truth in the sense that it's his truth. It not being your truth doesn't make it false, as the Earth doesn't revolve around you -- which is, ironically under it all, how you feel about your (anti-)beliefs.

Devote your life to something else, as opposed to trying to shoot down the beliefs of others. Your life might be less embittered.

[eldad9]

You want cruelty in the bible? there you go.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html

[Brak]

You want cruelty in the bible? there you go.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html
You're only furthering my point with this semi-random-ass post.

Thanks.

[camoor]

Well, as per all of your arguments, you're manipulating and sculpting everything said, up to this point, and using evidence to your advantage, which delves you deeper into ignoring what it was you're actually arguing about. In this case, you're attempting to argue about nothing:

As I've mentioned before, the Bible was written and edited by man -- this is obvious.

God's "cruelty" was crafted by man, to instill "the fear of God" into his believers, so they don't stray away, otherwise.

Again, the counterintuity of using the Bible as a catalyst to disprove the Bible is a round-about kinda circle.

Wiza-what?

Where was I trying to disprove the bible in this post - you have your posters confused, man.

Oh - and "sorry" for using evidence and facts to my advantage.

[eldad9]

It's a truth in the sense that it's his truth. It not being your truth doesn't make it false, as the Earth doesn't revolve around you -- which is, ironically under it all, how you feel about your (anti-)beliefs.

Devote your life to something else, as opposed to trying to shoot down the beliefs of others. Your life might be less embittered.

Truth doesn't work like that, but never mind that.

The problem is when people don't recognize that other viewpoints are valid and try hurting others who don't share them.

[Brak]

Wiza-what?

Where was I trying to disprove the bible in this post - you have your posters confused, man.

Oh - and "sorry" for using evidence and facts to my advantage.
No, no...

Here, look at the post of mine that you quoted earlier:

Man's more-than-apparent editing of the Bible, throughout the ages, is pretty funny... but I don't think it's proper enough evidence to disprove God, or to make God look cruel -- which people use quite often, in regards to cruelty.

That's me discussing mans obvious first-hand impact on what the Bible is, and tells.

You challenged my comment on "Man ruining a good thing" with a verse from the Bible. Kinda foolish, right?

What was the good thing? The only time the Christian God is not cruel is when that petulant tyrant gets his way.

And before you point at the Jebus, take a look at this little snippet on family values:

[Insert Verse Here]

[Brak]

Truth doesn't work like that, but never mind that.

The problem is when people don't recognize that other viewpoints are valid and try hurting others who don't share them.
Again, more of the embittered stressing of your beliefs onto others, claiming there is no other way. Which is ironic, since you keep claiming things in the vein "The problem is when people don't recognize that other viewpoints are valid and try hurting others who don't share them."

I guess becoming what you claim to hate is natural when you try fighting fire with fire.

If a guy were to believe he were Santa Claus... does that not make him Santa? To us, it doesn't -- but to him, he genuinely believes that he is Santa. It's a truth, to him

Who are we to tell him otherwise.

Sure, it'd be pertinent to his health to explain otherwise... but it's just an example.

[mykevermin]

The irony about CorporalJackson's truths is that his truth was derived from the fact that christianity broke into multiple sects during the protestant reformation - the inherent argument is that the King of England decided that there were some nontruths and politicking amongst Catholics (e.g., indulgences). So, while trying to argue that one's version of the truth is, in fact, *the* truth, the same person makes the argument that other people's versions of the truth are fundamentally flawed; that in itself is fine, but it involves the willfull ignorance and outright denial that manipulation within one person's faith could possibly occur. Faith, in this case, is denial.

I think it's important for one to remain faithful (though, for full disclosure, I rarely am), but skeptical at the same time. Most Christian faiths disdain homosexuality, yet ignore a great deal of the other provisions made in Leviticus (the only book where homosexuality is allegedly condemned as an abomination). As eldad showed, Leviticus is a helluva tough way to live, and I'm willing to put up a dollar against anyone who thinks otherwise that we are all violating, at any point in time, many of the tenets in that book. So, there's manipulation and picking and choosing in just that one book, let alone the dozens of others.

So, it's important to be faithful, but not so faithless as to believe that humans, imperfect creatures that we are (and that's a fact whether or not you believe in a God), can accurately and consistently convey the beliefs of a perfect being(s).

[camoor]

No, no...

Here, look at the post of mine that you quoted earlier:



That's me discussing mans obvious first-hand impact on what the Bible is, and tells.

You challenged my comment on "Man ruining a good thing" with a verse from the Bible. Kinda foolish, right?

Listen, it's not my problem that your posts contain a bunch of random unconnected musings - I just picked the most ridiculous and attempted to work my way backwards.

However I admit that lauching this attempt was foolish.

Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
- Mark Twain

[eldad9]

Again, more of the embittered stressing of your beliefs onto others, claiming there is no other way. Which is ironic, since you keep claiming things in the vein "The problem is when people don't recognize that other viewpoints are valid and try hurting others who don't share them."

I guess becoming what you claim to hate is natural when you try fighting fire with fire.

If a guy were to believe he were Santa Claus... does that not make him Santa? To us, it doesn't -- but to him, he genuinely believes that he is Santa. It's a truth, to him

Who are we to tell him otherwise.

Sure, it'd be pertinent to his health to explain otherwise... but it's just an example.

I've got no problem with anybody believing in no religion, any religion, or any combination. However, if your guy tries to silence people who say santa doesn't exist, kill people who give each other presents, or try to pass laws prohibiting anybody from coming withing 500 miles of his north pole workshop - that is, when he starts hurting others - it's then that I have a problem with him.

But the whole thing is ridiculous. You're talking about madness, not a new religion, because santa's one of the christian myths. It's a fine distinction, of course.

[evanft]

Christianity is inherently immoral, as it denies reality-based morality in favor of submission to god's will.

[eldad9]

Christianity is inherently immoral, as it denies reality-based morality in favor of submission to god's will.

Almost no religion is all bad - christianity too has those "be nice to others" bits - but most are burdened by the stuff required to make people believe and keep them in line. That is, if you make up a benevolent god, asking people to believe it isn't as bad as if you make up one that has you kill people for stuff like being gay or shaving or eating shellfish.

People are free to deny whatever parts of reality they choose - as long as they choose for themselves. Foolish, maybe, but there's no laws against that, nor should there be.

[evanft]

Almost no religion is all bad - christianity too has those "be nice to others" bits - but most are burdened by the stuff required to make people believe and keep them in line. That is, if you make up a benevolent god, asking people to believe it isn't as bad as if you make up one that has you kill people for stuff like being gay or shaving or eating shellfish.

People are free to deny whatever parts of reality they choose - as long as they choose for themselves. Foolish, maybe, but there's no laws against that, nor should there be.

Yeah, and? It's still inherently immoral to base morality on anything other than reality.

[CorporalJackson]

I think you're trying to say large amounts of tar and such. I didn't realize that tar wasn't a naturally occuring phenomenon. Did they find a pillar of salt too?

Nobody knows the actual location of Sodom and Gomorrah, since the names for the two cities were given after the destruction. Sodom is hebrew for "Burnt" and Gomorrah is hebrew for "A Ruined Heap".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodom_and_Gomorrah

Maybe if you learned some actual history, you might discover that as a historical text the Bible is rather lacking.
Srry, not tar sulfur and yes it has been found before you make assumptions research :) Jesus loves you
http://www.arkdiscovery.com/sodom_&_gomorrah.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1497476.stm

[eldad9]

One has to question the neutrality of a site that plainly states this is god's doing.

The second link - the BBC - suggests the destruction was the result of an earthquake.

Look, trying to _prove_ the existance of any god, especially a particular one, is not doable.

And you keep stating things that are not facts ("Jesus loves you"). Well, I just made up nine aliens. I won't bother you with their names and such - but two of them love you, two hate you, and five couldn't care either way. Fun, huh?

[Quillion]

Srry, not tar sulfur and yes it has been found before you make assumptions research :) Jesus loves you
http://www.arkdiscovery.com/sodom_&_gomorrah.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1497476.stm

As eldad stated, the first article is biased. The second article closes with these words:

But more conclusive evidence is still needed; not unless the remains of Sodom and Gomorrah are found under the Dead Sea's salty waters will the theory be proved.

I'm done arguing with you on this particular point. The Bible as a historical record is completely unreliable.

For example, in multiple places, it even contradicts itself.

In fact, the Gospel of Matthew has the angel announcing the birth (and explaining matters) to Joseph (Matthew 1:20), while Luke has the angel visiting Mary (Luke 1:28).

http://www.rotten.com/library/religion/bible/discrepancies/

You're naive to blindly follow a book without questioning it. The purpose of the bible is to deliver a message. It's a valid and important message, but don't misinterperet that as anything more than it is.