Dumb people with money

[lordxixor101]

It's always been a pet peeve of mine having to deal with those people that never seem to have any money, but they blow every cent they have. Though, my sis in law right now might take the cake (hope she doesn't read this lol).

Anyway, she has been living with me (and the wife) for 3 years. Has 2 kids (3 and 1, love them like my own). She works a deadend job making minimum wage for 30 hours a week. But, the government (through Section 8) wants to give her her own house to rent, which will cost her $150 a month (wow, how far ahead could I get with that). Anyway, she needs to come up with a grand to move, and she's set on a deal of a lifetime. Obviously, knowing this was coming for 6 months, she's saved up a grand total of $0. But, her plan is to beg her dad for money, it'll probably work.

But, the best part, she needed a $50 application fee yesterday. Of course, doesn't have it. But, she didn't have it because she dropped $70 at the bar Saturday night (knowing she had this application fee, but didn't tell anyone since she assumed someone would lend her the money afterwards). So, she didn't come up with it, so now she isn't having it processed in a month.

I can't decide if I hope she gets everything in order or not. She doesn't deserve it, but I'm wondering if she's going to be 40 and living with me if she doesn't get this.

Anyone else have any stories?

[Revenantae]

There is a reason most "poor" people are "poor" and it's very rarely circumstance.

[rodeojones903]

Your sister is a moron.

[NegativeZero]

lend her that money and get her ass out of ur house. Shes too comfortable and needs to learn responsibility

[Ikohn4ever]

There is a reason most "poor" people are "poor" and it's very rarely circumstance.


:-k I wander what your political party is

[Mookyjooky]

:-k I wander what your political party is

I'm democrat, grew up in a one room shack with my waitress mother for a good bit of my life, and I agree with that statement 100%.

Its real hard to get out of that hole... but if you're 25 and you're not out... you fucked up somewhere. Rich people are rich because they know how to play the game. Learn how to play, and you can be too.

[Revenantae]

:-k I wander what your political party is
I'm a Republican.. old school, Bush is a spendthrift idgit.

I moved out and lived on my own from the age of 15. I paid my way trhough High School by working Pizza Hut, I paid my way trhough college by working 3 jobs at once. Everything I have is mine. Nobody gave me anything.

The point: I'm nothing special. I'm no prodigy, no superman, no lottery winner. If I can do it, so can anyone else. So no, I have very little sympathy for MOST poor people, because they, much like the OP's sister, bring thier circumstances on themselves.

[Puffa469]

the ignorance displayed in this thread so far is astounding!

[jmcc]

I'm a Republican.. old school, Bush is a spendthrift idgit.

I moved out and lived on my own from the age of 15. I paid my way trhough High School by working Pizza Hut, I paid my way trhough college by working 3 jobs at once. Everything I have is mine. Nobody gave me anything.

The point: I'm nothing special. I'm no prodigy, no superman, no lottery winner. If I can do it, so can anyone else. So no, I have very little sympathy for MOST poor people, because they, much like the OP's sister, bring thier circumstances on themselves.Comedy gold!

[lordxixor101]

the ignorance displayed in this thread so far is astounding!

Puffa, I'm not so sure I can agree with you here. I've supported just about every side of this issue at some point. However, I've known some people who, on the surface, seemed to do everything right, and yet never caught a break. Yet, after knowing them longer, they really were poor because they weren't willing to work out of it.

I won't say the difference between the rich and middle class, but I'm beginning to wonder about the poor. Every circumstance I've seen, you can earn enough to support yourself if your willing to work hard (many times, you don't even have to work that hard, just be willing to put in your 40). Yet, you'll be amazed at how many poor people don't feel a need to work 40 hours, or don't want a second job, yet complain they don't have anything.

Get a job and an education, and you should be ok (maybe not well off, but well off enough)

[friedram]

Just remember- there is a difference between a "NEED"- Food, Water vs WANT "OMGWTFBBQ I WANTS A BIG SCREEN TV AND I WORK AT BLOCKBUSTER!"

People confuse the two- there are few people who really have a problem solving their needs- instead they confuse it with thinking they deserve to solve all their WANTS.

[guessed]

When I read the thread title, I thought it was going to be about stupid rich people, not stupid poor people.

[doubledown]

Yeah, I would lend her the money to get her out of my hair. However, they need some responsibility. I have a brother like that how tends to rely on my parents....still living with them actually. He liked to party too much, in a band, bad decisions. STarting to get better now. People have to learn to keep their legs closed if they cannot afford kids either. Child support should be paying for them too, right? I know single mothers have lots of options to get money.

Yes, there is a a matter of NEED vs WANT. I'm learning I have to cut somethings out our budget with my wife having a kid and being a stay-at-home mom, which is coming soon. So, I know how that is...but I still can live just fine.

Tell her to stop going to the bar? Do you watch the kids while she goes? Tell here you cannot do it. How often is she doing these frivolous things?

[Revenantae]

Comedy gold!
Wherein lieth the comedy? Earning what you have? I guess that might be funny if you're exceptionally coddled.

[Xevious]

When I read the thread title, I thought it was going to be about stupid rich people, not stupid poor people.

So did I.

This thread raises some interesting points about Republicans and Democrats.

Generally speaking Democrats are more likely to fund social service programs and Republicans are more likely to cut them. That is just a generalization of course.

People like the OP's sister are mooches. No amount of money from their family members or from the government are going to help them change their ways. Its people like these that destroy the value of social wellfare.

I used to know a section 8 guy who lived near me and he was one lazy prick! He did nothing! I was mad because my tax money was support people like him.

[dude2003]

i feel bad for the op's sister in law's kids. if their mother cannot support herself by not saving, how is she going to support her kids? i have a hard time spending my knowing that i have a mortgage and job insecurity. that's why i always wonder how people can spend and not think about how to could live on if they don't have a job.

a story about a former co-worker: she quit her job here because she didn't feel secure. i mean, she just walked out one day and didn't come back. she owes $70k with my current employer (i work for a credit union) alone, and she has other credit card debts. my employer was being nice and paid her 2 weeks extra as a severance pay even though she just walked out. she cashed out her retirement plan here and all together, she got about $12k. what did she do with that $12k? blew it in reno. now, she has no job, at least $70k debt and late on every loan she has. she's a single mother as well. i wonder how she can support herself and her kid now. she also owes me $150 but i most likely would not ask for that money back.

[mtxbass1]

I believe that people easily confuse a "need" verses a "want".

I have a friend who works and lives with a roommate. She gets paid twice a month. One paycheck goes towards bills, and about 50% of the next paycheck still goes towards bills. This leaves her with about $300-400 left over each month (after all expenses). She has no savings and always says she wants to better her situation. The other day she tells me she's buying an iPod. Now, correct me if I'm wrong here, but if you only have $300 to your name, buying an ipod isn't the smartest choice to make. I would think saving any kind of money you have left over would be the best bet so you can eventually better your situation.

I believe a big problem is the American mentality of "gotta have it now". I read that last year Americans actually had a -3% saving rate. That means people aren't saving money anymore. It's going to be interesting to see what happens to society and our economy over the long term when this starts to have a greater impact.

[jmcc]

Wherein lieth the comedy? Earning what you have? I guess that might be funny if you're exceptionally coddled.Yeah, I guess that was unfair. For all I know, your college education could make you qualified to throw around statements about most poor people bringing it on themselves. You'd have to be the Ph.Dest Ph.D in the field of sociology for it not to be a hilarious post, though.

[dude2003]

I believe that people easily confuse a "need" verses a "want".

I have a friend who works and lives with a roommate. She gets paid twice a month. One paycheck goes towards bills, and about 50% of the next paycheck still goes towards bills. This leaves her with about $300-400 left over each month (after all expenses). She has no savings and always says she wants to better her situation. The other day she tells me she's buying an iPod. Now, correct me if I'm wrong here, but if you only have $300 to your name, buying an ipod isn't the smartest choice to make. I would think saving any kind of money you have left over would be the best bet so you can eventually better your situation.

I believe a big problem is the American mentality of "gotta have it now". I read that last year Americans actually had a -3% saving rate. That means people aren't saving money anymore. It's going to be interesting to see what happens to society and our economy over the long term when this starts to have a greater impact.

i agree 100%. advertisers today will make most kids want everything now. eventually the U.S. economy will go down the drain. as for myself, i base my spending on necessity vs luxury. luxury always comes last of course. example would be video games. reason i'm a CAG is because i don't need to pay full price for a game. i don't need to newest release of the game either. i can wait till a game is $5 or $10. the last game i bought at full price was guild wars in september 2005 and before that, it was dynasty warriors 4 when it first came out. other than those 2, i have bought my games $15 and under. so glad we have the toys r us and circuit city sales :lol:

[Revenantae]

Yeah, I guess that was unfair. For all I know, your college education could make you qualified to throw around statements about most poor people bringing it on themselves. You'd have to be the Ph.Dest Ph.D in the field of sociology for it not to be a hilarious post, though.
Not really. The point stands. I had very little, I used what I did have to get more. Anyone can. Poor? Get a job first. Spend money on essentials only: food, clothing (not name brand), shelter.

Got some extra money? Save it.

Use goverment aid to go to school. If you're poor, you'll get, at the VERY least, free loans. Most times you'll get grants. Go to school, night school if you need to work. Most schools schedules are flexible enough you can work 80+ hours a week and still attend, it just limits the number of classes you can take, and increases the time till graduation.

Apply for better job. Rinse repeat.

You'll probably never get stinking rich, like say Bush, Kerry, or Gates, but you'll have a nice middle class life.

[jmcc]

Not really. The point stands. I had very little, I used what I did have to get more. Anyone can. Poor? Get a job first. Spend money on essentials only: food, clothing (not name brand), shelter.

Got some extra money? Save it.

Use goverment aid to go to school. If you're poor, you'll get, at the VERY least, free loans. Most times you'll get grants. Go to school, night school if you need to work. Most schools schedules are flexible enough you can work 80+ hours a week and still attend, it just limits the number of classes you can take, and increases the time till graduation.

Apply for better job. Rinse repeat.

You'll probably never get stinking rich, like say Bush, Kerry, or Gates, but you'll have a nice middle class life.Anecdotal evidence rarely supports a point.

[Revenantae]

Anecdotal evidence rarely supports a point.
Perhaps, but you've offered nothing to counter it. There is absolutely nothing in that plan I outlined that can't be done by any able-minded individual.

Even people with mild retardation are able to live life on their own, hold down a job, pay rent etc. Why do you seem to think it's too much to ask of the average American?

[mtxbass1]

Got some extra money? Save it.

Use goverment aid to go to school. If you're poor, you'll get, at the VERY least, free loans. Most times you'll get grants. Go to school, night school if you need to work. Most schools schedules are flexible enough you can work 80+ hours a week and still attend, it just limits the number of classes you can take, and increases the time till graduation.

Apply for better job. Rinse repeat.



This is all very true. I came from a poor family myself. Worked some shit job making minimum wage throughout high school. Applied for federal aid for college and got a few grants (and loans). Worked throughout college and graduated. Rinse and repeat as well.

The problem lies in the fact that people are lazy. They expect things to be handed to them on a silver platter.

[jmcc]

Perhaps, but you've offered nothing to counter it. There is absolutely nothing in that plan I outlined that can't be done by any able-minded individual.

Even people with mild retardation are able to live life on their own, hold down a job, pay rent etc. Why do you seem to think it's too much to ask of the average American?I didn't say that. I said you can't throw around statements like "poor people bring it on themselves." That ignores shit-tons of variables that you don't take into account because they didn't come into play in your case.

[dberuvides]

The quickest way in America to make alot of money from a couple thousand dollars is tax lien certificates. I know people who do this for retirement savings instead of a IRA or 401k. 20%-35% return on your money per year (depends on state) backed up by your local government and the person's house is the collateral if they don't pay you back within one year.

[friedram]

I didn't say that. I said you can't throw around statements like "poor people bring it on themselves." That ignores shit-tons of variables that you don't take into account because they didn't come into play in your case.

Too poor people.

A friend of mine family was poor, dad died, mom had a nervous breakdown, they had no money- he and his brother were able to go to Cal Tech, have their PHD's paid for because of their intelegence and willingness to work. They had friends in Highschool who did crack.

LIFE ISN'T FUCKING FAIR- GET OVER IT

You make your own luck- stop trying to blame crappy situations on someone else- take some responsiblity for your own life.

Having Kids is a decision, buying stuff other than food / water is a decision. Deal with it.

[lordxixor101]

Hmmm, this went in an interesting direction. I was originally posting to see if people knew similar stories. Not many were posted, but this is still very interesting (so I'm glad I posted) (also, sadly, this is the most posts I've ever had for a topic in 3 years here, so thanks everyone :) )

First off, I can't afford the 1K for her. I could give her the $50, but I don't have $1,000 just to give away (been down that road with other family members before, and even if I could lend it to her, I know after a month it won't ever see another cent).

Secondly, even if I did, this really isn't teaching responsibiltity, it's just shoving the problem out the door. In the future, it might have been worth 1k just to have her gone. My thought is, she'll have the house and still not make payments, and she'll eventually just expect others to pick it up for her. I'm not falling in that trap. She does need to grow up, but maybe losing a golden opportunity and seeing that she has no future other than living in another person's house might wake her up.

I doubt it, but we'll see.

[Revenantae]

I didn't say that. I said you can't throw around statements like "poor people bring it on themselves." That ignores shit-tons of variables that you don't take into account because they didn't come into play in your case.
If you'll notice, I repeatedly used the qualifier "MOST". I was poor, I've known plenty of poor people, and I stand by what I said. Sure, there are people that just have things stacked against them from birth. I'll give you that some folks can't catch a break.

However, for every one of those, there are ten more like the OP's sister. Go to a poor neighborhood sometime, if you're brave enough. Ask youself this, why are nice cars parked in these crappy houses? Why are so many kids in this neighborhood wearing brand name clothes? Why do I see big screen TV's and setellite dishes on so many of these homes? How much would these people be able to save if they bought clothes from factory2u, settled for a smaller TV and broadcast television, bought older, but reliable used cars, and used food money for groceries instead of McD's?

MOST of them simply aren't spending their money well, or planning their lives. They choose luxuries NOW instead of a comfortable life LATER.

[jmcc]

Too poor people.

A friend of mine family was poor, dad died, mom had a nervous breakdown, they had no money- he and his brother were able to go to Cal Tech, have their PHD's paid for because of their intelegence and willingness to work. They had friends in Highschool who did crack.

LIFE ISN'T FUCKING FAIR- GET OVER IT

You make your own luck- stop trying to blame crappy situations on someone else- take some responsiblity for your own life.

Having Kids is a decision, buying stuff other than food / water is a decision. Deal with it.Tell your friend it was his fault all that bad shit happened to him and see what he says.

[Revenantae]

Tell your friend it was his fault all that bad shit happened to him and see what he says.
You seem to be missing his point; having bad shit happen to you is no excuse for failure.

[jmcc]

If you'll notice, I repeatedly used the qualifier "MOST". I was poor, I've known plenty of poor people, and I stand by what I said. Sure, there are people that just have things stacked against them from birth. I'll give you that some folks can't catch a break.

However, for every one of those, there are ten more like the OP's sister. Go to a poor neighborhood sometime, if you're brave enough. Ask youself this, why are nice cars parked in these crappy houses? Why are so many kids in this neighborhood wearing brand name clothes? Why do I see big screen TV's and setellite dishes on so many of these homes? How much would these people be able to save if they bought clothes from factory2u, settled for a smaller TV and broadcast television, bought older, but reliable used cars, and used food money for groceries instead of McD's?

MOST of them simply aren't spending their money well, or planning their lives. They choose luxuries NOW instead of a comfortable life LATER.You can stand by your point all you want. That doesn't change the fact that you're not qualified to throw around "most" in this case.

[dberuvides]

Having kids=DEBT DEBT DEBT AND MORE>>>>>>>>>YOU GUESSED IT.....DEBT!!!

[Revenantae]

You can stand by your point all you want. That doesn't change the fact that you're not qualified to throw around "most" in this case.
So, your argument, in short, is that the majority of poor people are poor because " all sorts of bad shitt happened to each and every one of them". Only a small minority can choose to spend their money on education. Only a small minority can save. Only a small minority can try to better themselves. The rest simply have retailers YANK money right out of their wallets and place luxury items they can't truly afford in their homes.

BS. Sorry, but for all this countries fault, the USofA is stil the land of opportunity. Anyone who wants to improve themselves, and works hard to do so, can. All the tools are provided. Govermnet assistence for education? Check. Quality education from myriad community colleges? Check. Job programs? Check.

Sorry, but you just don't have an argument on your side. Almost anyone who is poor is NOT USING THE TOOLS PROVIDED FOR THEM. That makes their situation their own fault.

[mtxbass1]

Ask youself this, why are nice cars parked in these crappy houses? Why are so many kids in this neighborhood wearing brand name clothes? Why do I see big screen TV's and setellite dishes on so many of these homes? How much would these people be able to save if they bought clothes from factory2u, settled for a smaller TV and broadcast television, bought older, but reliable used cars, and used food money for groceries instead of McD's?

MOST of them simply aren't spending their money well, or planning their lives. They choose luxuries NOW instead of a comfortable life LATER.
The answer to why this is, is quite simple really. Society. It's become the "norm" to want to have it now. America has become a "give it to me now" society. I find it simply amazing sometimes to sit back and watch this happen.

Living in the south, I notice this a lot. Very nice SUV, 24" Rims, etc, parked outside of a ratty house.

Why does this happen? People aren't taught how to save/spend their money. They do what they see on TV or what they see their friends do. Short of an economics class, when was the last time an individual "learns" how to spend/save money? They usually don't. It's up to that individual to make it a point to want to "break the norm" that society has procured.

[jmcc]

So, your argument, in short, is that the majority of poor people are poor because " all sorts of bad shitt happened to each and every one of them". Only a small minority can choose to spend their money on education. Only a small minority can save. Only a small minority can try to better themselves. The rest simply have retailers YANK money right out of their wallets and place luxury items they can't truly afford in their homes.

BS. Sorry, but for all this countries fault, the USofA is stil the land of opportunity. Anyone who wants to improve themselves, and works hard to do so, can. All the tools are provided. Govermnet assistence for education? Check. Quality education from myriad community colleges? Check. Job programs? Check.

Sorry, but you just don't have an argument on your side. Almost anyone who is poor is NOT USING THE TOOLS PROVIDED FOR THEM. That makes their situation their own fault.No, my argument is that you can't say "most poor people bring it on themselves." You're trying to shift it to "most poor people can succeed if they try." That's fine, it's just not what you originally said. What you originally said is that people are responsible for their poverty regardless of situation, which is ridiculous and beyond your authority to say.

[Dead of Knight]

I don't even want to get started on my ex-boyfriend's family... God damn fuckers....

His mother's boyfriend makes $30k a year as an insurance salesman. They have 5 kids in the family from four different fathers. His mother doesn't work, of course, and feeds off the MA welfare, etc. even though she doesn't even live there anymore (gets the aid through her PO box in MA). Of course, like the other people in this topic, they have shit that no person in their position should need. Satellite TV, cell phones, a bunch of other shit, while the children are fed cereal for dinner and the adults get fish and a full dinner. The mother spends the $100 a week she gets from one of the fathers- the only one that actually pays up besides the boyfriend- on DVDs, movie tickets, dinner at a nice restaurant, and other shit that's certainly not a necessity.

The ex inherited similar values, which I'm not going to go into in depth this post. Let's just say he wasted my parents' money on college tuition for a summer and got a 1.9 GPA (failing two classes), convinced us to get him a $3000 laptop, and we paid for all his expenses while he lived with us for 6 months. And what do I get in return? Physical and verbal abuse on me and my mother, and 3 years wasted of my romantic life, as well as thousands of dollars. Well, at least now I'm with a lawyer who was a football player in college, so if he ever tries anything, he's fucked.


EDIT: Also forgot to add that my ex keylogged my computer to get my passwords, AIM conversations, etc, so I couldn't talk to any of my friends about it except in person, which isn't an option most of the time because of distance.

[dude2003]

I don't even want to get started on my ex-boyfriend's family... God damn fuckers....

His mother's boyfriend makes $30k a year as an insurance salesman. They have 5 kids in the family from four different fathers. His mother doesn't work, of course, and feeds off the MA welfare, etc. even though she doesn't even live there anymore (gets the aid through her PO box in MA). Of course, like the other people in this topic, they have shit that no person in their position should need. Satellite TV, cell phones, a bunch of other shit, while the children are fed cereal for dinner and the adults get fish and a full dinner. The mother spends the $100 a week she gets from one of the fathers- the only one that actually pays up besides the boyfriend- on DVDs, movie tickets, dinner at a nice restaurant, and other shit that's certainly not a necessity.

shit like this pisses me off. i work my tales off and drive a beat up used car and people on welfare are driving lexus. i mean, welfare comes from my tax dollars!!!

[Revenantae]

No, my argument is that you can't say "most poor people bring it on themselves." You're trying to shift it to "most poor people can succeed if they try." That's fine, it's just not what you originally said. What you originally said is that people are responsible for their poverty regardless of situation, which is ridiculous and beyond your authority to say.
The thing you are missing is that those two statements are functionally equivalent. If a poor person betters him/herself they will not stay poor. If they stay poor, they did not better themselves. If they did not better themselves, it's simply because they did not use the tools provided for them. If they did not use the tools, the fault is theirs. Ergo, most people are poor because of themselves, their choices, and their actions.

I did not say "regardless of situation". I already said that some folks can't catch a break. Some are born severely handicapped. Some are mowed down by devastating diseases. Some are just plain unlucky and get hit by falling branches or struck by lightening. They are, however, a tiny minority.Most people are responsible for thier situation.

The problem, it seems, is that "trying" part. Too many people these days think wealth and good fortune should be showered upon them simply for existing. They don't think they should have to work, suffer or sacrifice.

[friedram]

Tell your friend it was his fault all that bad shit happened to him and see what he says.

Learn2Read

My friends did better than most people would have ever thought because they applied themselves and are brilliant people. You have to have something to offer other than "I WANTS STUFF" to go somewhere in life.

Hell- we need people to make minimum wage- I just want them to shut the hell up and accept their lot in life

or... do something about it.

[jmcc]

The thing you are missing is that those two statements are functionally equivalent. If a poor person betters him/herself they will not stay poor. If they stay poor, they did not better themselves. If they did not better themselves, it's simply because they did not use the tools provided for them. If they did not use the tools, the fault is theirs. Ergo, most people are poor because of themselves, their choices, and their actions.

I did not say "regardless of situation". I already said that some folks can't catch a break. Some are born severely handicapped. Some are mowed down by devastating diseases. Some are just plain unlucky and get hit by falling branches or struck by lightening. They are, however, a tiny minority.Most people are responsible for thier situation.

The problem, it seems, is that "trying" part. Too many people these days think wealth and good fortune should be showered upon them simply for existing. They don't think they should have to work, suffer or sacrifice.No, they aren't equivalent. One is saying people have control over their socio-economic background. The other says they have control over their socio-economic future.

[friedram]

The answer to why this is, is quite simple really. Society. It's become the "norm" to want to have it now. America has become a "give it to me now" society. I find it simply amazing sometimes to sit back and watch this happen.

Living in the south, I notice this a lot. Very nice SUV, 24" Rims, etc, parked outside of a ratty house.

Why does this happen? People aren't taught how to save/spend their money. They do what they see on TV or what they see their friends do. Short of an economics class, when was the last time an individual "learns" how to spend/save money? They usually don't. It's up to that individual to make it a point to want to "break the norm" that society has procured.

This is the best post in this thread- my hats off to you Mtxbass1. People'd rather have tricked out cars NOW, than something that will do them more good in the long run (house in a non-Ghetto neighborhood)

[jmcc]

Learn2Read

My friends did better than most people would have ever thought because they applied themselves and are brilliant people. You have to have something to offer other than "I WANTS STUFF" to go somewhere in life.

Hell- we need people to make minimum wage- I just want them to shut the hell up and accept their lot in life

or... do something about it.Go back to the original post on the subject and peruse it before telling me to learn to read. "Most poor people bring it on themselves" was the statement. If you're agreeing with that point, and I assume you are since you're attempting to argue against me, you're saying it's the fault of people put into poverty by circumstance that they're poor. So your friend's harsh original lot in life is his own fault by your logic. So go ask him why he chose to be born into that.

[Revenantae]

No, they aren't equivalent. One is saying people have control over their socio-economic background. The other says they have control over their socio-economic future.
Yes, they are. If you have control over your socioeconomic future NOW, you had it 5 years ago too. Thats the thing. Most people who ARE poor have only themselves to blame. Those unlucky bastards previously named excepted.

[dberuvides]

I was taught that if you get a college education,especially business, you will be successful. Yeah Right!!!!! Here I am roughly 1.5 years after college and making roughly 2 dollars more an hour than in HS. I did everything society told me to do yet.......I get nowhere. AMERICA IS A SCAM. Unless your a cracker from a well heeled family the odds of you making it in today's America is close to zero. BTW, I'm a white male. Until working and middle class people wake up that capitalism only works for people who live off investments and capital gains this country will never change. 45 million with no health care. 11% REAL unemplyment when you add in people who have given up looking for work Source: The Nation Magazine . Foreclosure all time high. Inflation at 7 year high. DOW and SP have gone no where in the last 6 years. Last, PEOPLE ARE NOT SAVING BECAUSE THEY CAN'T!!!!!!!!!!! I'm no way poor. My parents have a 300K house that IS PAID FOR NO MORTGAGE and roughly 200k in savings on top of that! However, my generation will have to work three times as harder in order to achieve what my parents did due to over blown free markets.

[jmcc]

Yes, they are. If you have control over your socioeconomic future NOW, you had it 5 years ago too. Thats the thing. Most people who ARE poor have only themselves to blame. Those unlucky bastards previously named excepted.You'd have a point if it was a significant minority. But 13 million of the 39 million people in poverty in America are children. So saying they're responsible for their own welfare is a throwback of a couple hundre years.

[Revenantae]

I was taught that if you get a college education,especially business, you will be successful. Yeah Right!!!!! Here I am roughly 1.5 years after college and making roughly 2 dollars more an hour than in HS. I did everything society told me to do yet.......I get nowhere. AMERICA IS A SCAM. Unless your a cracker from a well heeled family the odds of you making it in today's America is close to zero. BTW, I'm a white male. Until working and middle class people wake up that capitalism only works for people who live off investments and capital gains this country will never change. 45 million with no health care. 11% REAL unemplyment when you add in people who have given up looking for work Source: The Nation Magazine . Foreclosure all time high. Inflation at 7 year high. DOW and SP have gone no where in the last 6 years. Last, PEOPLE ARE NOT SAVING BECAUSE THEY CAN'T!!!!!!!!!!! I'm no way poor. My parents have a 300K house that IS PAID FOR NO MORTGAGE and roughly 200k in savings on top of that! However, my generation will have to work three times as harder in order to achieve what my parents did due to over blown free markets.
Absolute and complete bullshit. Pick me ANYONE who is living "just a paycheck away" and lets take a look at what they do with their money, shall we?

Got cable? $50 a month right there. Eat out for lunch every day? Theres another $200 a month. Fancy new car vs reliable used car, 1-3 hundred a month. Raise the thermostat a few degrees, another $20 a month. Drop the cell phone $60 a month. Quit going out to eat or spending money at bars $70 a month.

As was pointed out earlier, the amount of money people blow is phenomenal. Yes even middle class people are feeling the squeeze, but it's not because of "those damn rich crackers". It's because, as with poor people they are making bad choices. Don't buy anything but a house that you can't afford to pay cash for, and when you buy a house, buy what you can afford. Live by those rules, and you'll NEVER be "a paycheck away".

[Revenantae]

You'd have a point if it was a significant minority. But 13 million of the 39 million people in poverty in America are children. So saying they're responsible for their own welfare is a throwback of a couple hundre years.
I'll grant you children. I should have stated I am talking about able-bodied people old enough to get a job. My bad.

[mtxbass1]

Last, PEOPLE ARE NOT SAVING BECAUSE THEY CAN'T!!!!!!!!!!!

What?

This is bullshit. EVERY PERSON can save money. Even if you save something as small as $5 a week, it can be done. That adds up to over $260 a year. I find it hard to believe that anyone who works a job simply cannot afford to save money. It's that they choose not to. Even if you are saving pennies, you are still saving money. It all adds up over time. People don't get rich over night.

Saving money requires making smarter choices. A prime example of this is eating out verses cooking at home. I spend roughly $25-40 everytime I go out to dinner with my girlfriend. If we had taken that money and went to the grocery store, we could have bought at least 2-3 (or more) good meals. The same would apply to any situation like this. If you cut back on spending, or make wiser spending choices, you will save money. It's all about discipline.

[dberuvides]

Absolute and complete bullshit. Pick me ANYONE who is living "just a paycheck away" and lets take a look at what they do with their money, shall we?

Got cable? $50 a month right there. Eat out for lunch every day? Theres another $200 a month. Fancy new car vs reliable used car, 1-3 hundred a month. Raise the thermostat a few degrees, another $20 a month. Drop the cell phone $60 a month. Quit going out to eat or spending money at bars $70 a month.

As was pointed out earlier, the amount of money people blow is phenomenal. Yes even middle class people are feeling the squeeze, but it's not because of "those damn rich crackers". It's because, as with poor people they are making bad choices. Don't buy anything but a house that you can't afford to pay cash for, and when you buy a house, buy what you can afford. Live by those rules, and you'll NEVER be "a paycheck away".

Hey tell that to someone who is making $7 an hour, full time working. That's below 1k a month AFTER taxes. Who can live on less than a 1k a month unless they live with mom and dad or a boat load of roommates.:drool: Yet one in four wokers in America are currently in this situation. Ie making less than 20k per year.

[dberuvides]

What?

This is bullshit. EVERY PERSON can save money. Even if you save something as small as $5 a week, it can be done. That adds up to over $260 a year. I find it hard to believe that anyone who works a job simply cannot afford to save money. It's that they choose not to. Even if you are saving pennies, you are still saving money. It all adds up over time. People don't get rich over night.

Saving money requires making smarter choices. A prime example of this is eating out verses cooking at home. I spend roughly $25-40 everytime I go out to dinner with my girlfriend. If we had taken that money and went to the grocery store, we could have bought at least 2-3 (or more) good meals. The same would apply to any situation like this. If you cut back on spending, or make wiser spending choices, you will save money. It's all about discipline.

260 a Week!!!! HAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!! One sickness during the winter and that 260 will be gone in co-pays only!!!!! HAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

[dberuvides]

What?

This is bullshit. EVERY PERSON can save money. Even if you save something as small as $5 a week, it can be done. That adds up to over $260 a year. I find it hard to believe that anyone who works a job simply cannot afford to save money. It's that they choose not to. Even if you are saving pennies, you are still saving money. It all adds up over time. People don't get rich over night.

Saving money requires making smarter choices. A prime example of this is eating out verses cooking at home. I spend roughly $25-40 everytime I go out to dinner with my girlfriend. If we had taken that money and went to the grocery store, we could have bought at least 2-3 (or more) good meals. The same would apply to any situation like this. If you cut back on spending, or make wiser spending choices, you will save money. It's all about discipline.

I made the wise monetary decision to stay childfree. I don't live in a farm therefore I don't need kids to survive.

[Graystone]

Give her the app fee and get her out of your home. She'll learn quick the differnces between want and need.

[mtxbass1]

Hey tell that to someone who is making $7 an hour, full time working. That's below 1k a month AFTER taxes. Who can live on less than a 1k a month unless they live with mom and dad or a boat load of roomates.:drool: Yet one in four wokers in America are currently in this situation. Ie making less than 20k per year.

Then you know how you solve this problem? Tell them to get either a second job or to try to find higher paying work.

If you are truely struggling with things, then what other choice do you have? It's either survive with 2 jobs or continue to be "poor".

Even if the second job was at minimum wage AND the person only worked an additonal 15-20 hours a week, they would be bringing in almost $100 extra a week.

I find it hard to believe that you can't then survive on those two incomes. On the low end, that's nearly $1300 a month after taxes. People get by on a lot lower than this.

[mtxbass1]

260 a Week!!!! HAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!! One sickness during the winter and that 260 will be gone in co-pays only!!!!! HAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

260 a week? Did you even read my post? $5 was an example amount to be saved per week, resulting in $260 a year. EVERYONE CAN SAVE AT LEAST THAT. The point is that ANYONE can save money, no matter what the amount.

People choose not to save because they have never been taught how to manage money. Like I have stated repeatedly. Every single person CAN save money. It's up to that person to have the discipline to do so.

[Revenantae]

Hey tell that to someone who is making $7 an hour, full time working. That's below 1k a month AFTER taxes. Who can live on less than a 1k a month unless they live with mom and dad or a boat load of roomates.:drool: Yet one in four wokers in America are currently in this situation. Ie making less than 20k per year.
Work more, get a better degree etc. You have options.

Not only that, but you can qualify to buy a house with that income easily. Not a great house, mind you, but a HOUSE, where you get something for each month's payment as opposed to washing it down a rent toilet. I bought my first house when I made approx 18k/year. Check out the Community Homebuyer's Program, a govenment program to help people get their first house.

It's all about your choices, and what you do with your money. As I said, if you look close at where your money goes, I bet we can find ways for you to save. Here's the thing, it's not easy or fun. If you want to prepare for the future, you sacrifice NOW. Our parents and grand-parents understood this. We, apparently, do not.

[dberuvides]

Then you know how you solve this problem? Tell them to get either a second job or to try to find higher paying work.

If you are truely struggling with things, then what other choice do you have? It's either survive with 2 jobs or continue to be "poor".

Even if the second job was at minimum wage AND the person only worked an additonal 15-20 hours a week, they would be bringing in almost $100 extra a week.

I find it hard to believe that you can't then survive on those two incomes. On the low end, that's nearly $1300 a month after taxes. People get by on a lot lower than this.

Living a miserable existence with no free time as well. Yet the top 1 percent gets 1300 a week off the interest of their money or more. Yet to them the American economy is "Steady and Strong". *sigh* with some teeth grinding.

[Revenantae]

mtxbass1: I think the problem here is that people these days simply want to whine and blame their failures on others. Working another job, bettering yourself, saving money: these things are HARD. They require effort, dedication and discipline. Too many people today think they should be rewarded for existing, not for effort.

Just look at the above post: He's mad that rich people are rewarded for investing their money. HE could save money, put it in a money market account, and avail himself of capital gains as well, but it's much easier to just bitch about rich people than it is to do something.

[dberuvides]

Work more, get a better degree etc. You have options.

Not only that, but you can qualify to buy a house with that income easily. Not a great house, mind you, but a HOUSE, where you get something for each month's payment as opposed to washing it down a rent toilet. I bought my first house when I made approx 18k/year. Check out the Community Homebuyer's Program, a govenment program to help people get their first house.

It's all about your choices, and what you do with your money. As I said, if you look close at where your money goes, I bet we can find ways for you to save. Here's the thing, it's not easy or fun. If you want to prepare for the future, you sacrifice NOW. Our parents and grand-parents understood this. We, apparently, do not.

Yet when our parents and grandparents where our age they could leave HS and make a living wage which in today's America you need a college education, clean credit, clean criminal history and a good luck wish just to have a CHANCE of getting a job that will let you move out of your parent's house.

[mtxbass1]

Living a miserable existence with no free time as well. Yet the top 1 percent gets 1300 a week off the interest of their money or more. Yet to them the American economy is "Steady and Strong". *sigh* with some teeth grinding.

What other choice do you have? It's either work and be "miserable" or not work and still be miserable because you don't have any money to do anything.

What does the top 1% have anything to do with the ability of any individual to save money and better themselves? Last time I checked, the top 1% had absolutely NO IMPACT on a persons ability to have discipline when it comes to money.

[mtxbass1]

mtxbass1: I think the problem here is that people these days simply want to whine and blame their failures on others. Working another job, bettering yourself, saving money: these things are HARD. They require effort, dedication and discipline. Too many people today think they should be rewarded for existing, not for effort.

Just look at the above post: He's mad that rich people are rewarded for investing their money. HE could save money, put it in a money market account, and avail himself of capital gains as well, but it's much easier to just bitch about rich people than it is to do something.

agreed.

[dberuvides]

mtxbass1: I think the problem here is that people these days simply want to whine and blame their failures on others. Working another job, bettering yourself, saving money: these things are HARD. They require effort, dedication and discipline. Too many people today think they should be rewarded for existing, not for effort.

Well when you are competing with 50 people for the same second job paying $7 an hour chances are you are not going to get that second job. People in this board seem to believe that you an walk into any HR department at any company and DEMAND a job. You people have a strong sense of reality....NOT!!!!!

[dberuvides]

What other choice do you have? It's either work and be "miserable" or not work and still be miserable because you don't have any money to do anything.

What does the top 1% have anything to do with the ability of any individual to save money and better themselves? Last time I checked, the top 1% had absolutely NO IMPACT on a persons ability to have discipline when it comes to money.

The top 1% control 70% of the country's wealth. This reduces the cash flow in society, which causes the FEDS to increase the money supply which in turn causes inflation which in turn causes high interest rates to reduce the inflation or keep it at bay. This is how someone with 2 million in the bank is hurting someone who works for a lving without even realizing it.

[mtxbass1]

Yet when our parents and grandparents where our age they could leave HS and make a living wage which in today's America you need a college education, clean credit, clean criminal history and a good luck wish just to have a CHANCE of getting a job that will let you move out of your parent's house.

Having "good luck" and a "clean criminal history" have absolutely NOTHING to do with the chance of getting a job. The same with a college education and "clean credit".

Is it suddenly good luck that an individual works and saves up enough money to move away from home?

Is it because of this individuals "clean criminal history" that they landed that job making $7.00 an hour? Hardly.

Does NOT having a college education prevent you from doing something with your life and bettering yourself? Hardly. Look at how many business leaders today haven't been to college in their entire lives. The number might suprise you.

How do you think your credit gets "dirty"? It's certainly not done at random and it's not based on race or age. The decisions you make with your money and lifestyle "dirty" your credit.

[Revenantae]

Yet when our parents and grandparents where our age they could leave HS and make a living wage which in today's America you need a college education, clean credit, clean criminal history and a good luck wish just to have a CHANCE of getting a job that will let you move out of your parent's house.
Again, absolute bullshit.

Pizza Hit 40hr week = $1000/month
Blockbuster 20hrs week = $500/month
--------------------------------------------------
total income/month = 1500 after taxes
This is assuming you stick to 7/hr forever

Monthly expenses
House mortgage for $60k house/condo - $600/month
Food - $150/month
electricity - $60/month
telephone - $40/month
car - $200/month
insurance - $100/month
screwing off money - $75/month
savings - $200/month
----------------------------------------
total expenses - $1425

That still leaves $75 you could blow any way you like..... Cut out the car, and associated insurance and you could damn near be a homeowner with just your one job.

[mykevermin]

I'd swear that jmcc conjured my spirit in this thread (not everybody accurately uses phrases like 'socio-economic,' nor do they find humor in anecdotal evidence damning the entirety of the poor), but I'm not so sure since he hasn't brought up the race card yet.

So I will.

If you want to blather about that all poor people (or most, or whatever bullshit non-data-strictly-anecdote-and-Michael-Savage-statements-having qualifier you want to use) are responsible for their own plight, riddle me this:

Are black people dumber than whites, lazier than whites, or both?

Seeing as how it is an undeniable fact (you can check the census website on per capita/per household earnings data) that (1) black people, on the whole, are *FAR* more unemployed than whites, and those who are employed have *FAR* lower earnings compared to whites, then one of the two explanations stands (and let me give you a hint: one of 'em ain't "coincidence").

1) The structural makeup of society is such that there are patterns of discrimination that prevent blacks from proportionate amounts of gainful employment, that prevent them from earning as much as whites, that show up in the public schools each go to (don't fool yourself into thinking that public education is really desegregated because you went to school with maybe 10 black kids), that serve as a penalty when it comes time for a promotion, and living in poorer communities because of housing and rent (and/or mortgage/loan) discrimination.

2) Blacks are lazy and dumb when compared to whites, on the whole.

So, if you want to go the "individual" route, then you are denying that the society in which we live offers up penalties for people of differing racial/ethnic categories. There is no discrimination, only opportunity, and the failure or success in utilizing it to the best of your abilities. White people have no advantage over blacks. At all. Nope. None. Them negroes sho' is dumb, haw haw! Right?

And let's not fool ourselves. Any talk (and I'm not pointing specific fingers here) of "rims" on cars, or multiple children, or welfare, or whathaveyou - the majority of that is coded language for "those damn blacks," so don't come to me with any of your "I don't see race," "I'm not racist" bullshit. In the meantime, if you can feasibly come up with something that explains why SO MANY MORE blacks earn shit compared to whites, if they work at all, if we're talking about problems faced on the *individual* level.

Oh, and for the record, nobody earns everything on their own. You ain't Mowgli, so you had people help you along the way to get where you are. To claim pure self-sufficiency is not only incorrect, but reeking of bullshit narcissism.

[dberuvides]

Again, absolute bullshit.

Pizza Hit 40hr week = $1000/month
Blockbuster 20hrs week = $500/month
--------------------------------------------------
total income/month = 1500 after taxes
This is assuming you stick to 7/hr forever

Monthly expenses
House mortgage for $60k house/condo - $600/month
Food - $150/month
electricity - $60/month
telephone - $40/month
car - $200/month
insurance - $100/month
screwing off money - $75/month
savings - $200/month
----------------------------------------
total expenses - $1425

That still leaves $75 you could blow any way you like..... Cut out the car, and associated insurance and you could damn near be a homeowner with just your one job.

.........and if you get laid off? Then what? $75 is a stretch. I'm not moving out until I have an income which I don't have at least 1K of disposable income after regular savings (401K, Roth IRA), taxes and expenses.

[Revenantae]

Your post is just another version of "I got it roughr than you so it's o.k. for me to not do anything with my life and it ain't my fault."

You also make a lot of assumptions in there, most of which are wrong. As to myself, I am not Tarzan or the jungle boy; yes I was raised by a mom till I was 15. I credit her with that, but that's all.

Do minorities statistically have it rougher? Yep. Is it a matter of their race? Nope. Is it a matter of widespread discrimination, no. If you compare races of the same socio-economic gourpings, you'll notice the disparities in race/pay disappear.

Yes, at the moment white people tend to have it best in America. Does that mean you can give up if you aren't white and it's not your fault? No.

[dberuvides]

mtxbass1: I think the problem here is that people these days simply want to whine and blame their failures on others. Working another job, bettering yourself, saving money: these things are HARD. They require effort, dedication and discipline. Too many people today think they should be rewarded for existing, not for effort.

Just look at the above post: He's mad that rich people are rewarded for investing their money. HE could save money, put it in a money market account, and avail himself of capital gains as well, but it's much easier to just bitch about rich people than it is to do something.

BTW, I do invest. I have 100 shares of SPY. 200 of C. 100 of JNJ. 200 of QQQQ. 150 of GE. 381 of VFINX. All this between my margin account (treat it like a cash account though), 401K and Roth IRA

[Revenantae]

.........and if you get laid off? Then what? $75 is a stretch. I'm not moving out until I have an income which I don't have at least 1K of disposable income after regular savings (401K, Roth IRA), taxes and expenses.
Good for you. You are making a WISE choice, and I applaud you for it. Odds are, if you follow that sort of path through life, you will live a very stable and rewarding life. Kudos.
EDIT: And I'm glad to hear you are investing. I retract my previous statement.

However, to go back to that example, Blockbuster and Pizza Hut aren't known for downsizing, and if they do, I can point to a dozen equivalent fast food or serivce industries that are hiring.

[mtxbass1]

The top 1% control 70% of the country's wealth. This reduces the cash flow in society, which causes the FEDS to increase the money supply which in turn causes inflation which in turn causes high interest rates to reduce the inflation or keep it at bay. This is how someone with 2 million in the bank is hurting someone who works for a lving without even realizing it.

:rofl:

That's the funniest post I've read on here all day.

I'll make sure I keep that in mind when I have millions in the bank that somehow, somewhere, I am somehow impacting a persons INDIVIDUAL CHOICE to do better in their life in regards to their financial situation.

[mykevermin]

Do minorities statistically have it rougher? Yep. Is it a matter of their race? Nope. Is it a matter of widespread discrimination, no. If you compare races of the same socio-economic gourpings, you'll notice the disparities in race/pay disappear.

Well, I'd ask you to show me the data, but you've essentially just said "if you compare people of similar earnings, you'll find that their earnings are similar," so, no, I don't think I need to see that data.

I'm talking about average earnings and employment. Can you tell me why 10% of all blacks over 16 are unemployed, yet only 5.1% of whites are? (source (ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/lf/aat3.txt)).

Can you tell me why whites earn, on average, $132 more per week ($657) than blacks ($525)? Or why Hispanics earn even less ($456), and Asians more ($702) (source (ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/lf/aat37.txt)) Is it because Asians are smart (so smart, so smart), while Hispanics and blacks are just dumb and lazy (compared to us vanguard whites, anyway)?

Is the US Bureau of Labor Statistics wrong? Would you like to continue to pull nothing even remotely resembling evidence out of your ass, yet again, or, if you prefer, you can show me precisely why you are correct. I dare you to cite some fucking data.

Of course, in reality, I anxiously await your next anecdote to prove me wrong.

[Dkellar]

Work more, get a better degree etc. You have options.

Not only that, but you can qualify to buy a house with that income easily. Not a great house, mind you, but a HOUSE, where you get something for each month's payment as opposed to washing it down a rent toilet. I bought my first house when I made approx 18k/year. Check out the Community Homebuyer's Program, a govenment program to help people get their first house.

It's all about your choices, and what you do with your money. As I said, if you look close at where your money goes, I bet we can find ways for you to save. Here's the thing, it's not easy or fun. If you want to prepare for the future, you sacrifice NOW. Our parents and grand-parents understood this. We, apparently, do not.

I just bought my first house a few months ago and I only make around $10,000 a year.

[dberuvides]

:rofl:

That's the funniest post I've read on here all day.

I'll make sure I keep that in mind when I have millions in the bank that somehow, somewhere, I am somehow impacting a persons INDIVIDUAL CHOICE to do better in their life in regards to their financial situation.

I guess Robert Reich is a fool then when he was on C-Span saying the same thing I just paraphrased. :roll:

[camoor]

Plenty of poor ppl make bad choices and expect others to pay for it, and since we feel bad for punishing the kids of poor people (with some justification I believe) we give these poor people money; however this unfortunately starts the cycle all over again.

As has been said before, however, the amount of money spent on welfare queens is dwarfed by the amount spent on corporate welfare and "bridges to nowhere".

[mtxbass1]

I guess Robert Reich is a fool then when he was on C-Span saying the same thing I just paraphrased. :roll:

So who paraphrased who?

Just because a person is on C-Span this implies that they know what they are talking about? Being on C-Span (or any other network) for that matter has little to do with someone knowing what they are talking about.

Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one.

[onetrackmind]

Again, absolute bullshit.

Pizza Hit 40hr week = $1000/month
Blockbuster 20hrs week = $500/month
--------------------------------------------------
total income/month = 1500 after taxes
This is assuming you stick to 7/hr forever

Monthly expenses
House mortgage for $60k house/condo - $600/month
Food - $150/month
electricity - $60/month
telephone - $40/month
car - $200/month
insurance - $100/month
screwing off money - $75/month
savings - $200/month
----------------------------------------
total expenses - $1425

That still leaves $75 you could blow any way you like..... Cut out the car, and associated insurance and you could damn near be a homeowner with just your one job.

Dude where the fuck are you pulling those numbers from? I looked for a house for 2 years and i never saw a house that was 60k that was move in ready that didn't need to be rehabed. Chances are if you even find a house that cheap you'll have to pay for natural gas for cooking and heat (which isnt cheap) and the projected electric is way off.

[Revenantae]

The problem here is that you are taking a difference(average income) and another difference(race) and claiming that the one is the cause of the other.

Let me put this another way. Why do blacks earn the VAST majority of NCAA Basketball scholorships. Are Asians and Hispanics just too lazy to run? Are white people biologically pre-disposed to a meager vertical leap? Same goes for football as well. http://www.arthurhu.com/index/asports.htm

You've noted two differences. Can I explain the differences, no. Neither can you. You've simply assumed the one causes the other.Simply throwing inflammatory language into the mix adds nothing to your argument. Try to keep it civil, I have, and I expect the same from you.

[Revenantae]

Dude where the fuck are you pulling those numbers from? I looked for a house for 2 years and i never saw a house that was 60k that was move in ready that didn't need to be rehabed. Chances are if you even find a house that cheap you'll have to pay for natural gas for cooking and heat (which isnt cheap) and the projected electric is way off.
Depends on where you live. In rural Ohio, for example, you'd find you could live even better than that for less money. In metropolitan New York, you probably couldn't even find a hovel. I'm talking averages.


http://realestate.yahoo.com/Homes_for_sale/detail.html?cid=c9093d52548931ae0e0bea54f7b5296d&cc=realestate&cs=price+2&view=&fullnodeid=750007014&csz=saint+louis%2C+MI&cl_l4pri=&ch_l4pri=50000&cl_bds=1&cl_bth=1.0&ce_login=&submit=Search

[Mookyjooky]

I don't even want to get started on my ex-boyfriend's family... God damn fuckers....

His mother's boyfriend makes $30k a year as an insurance salesman. They have 5 kids in the family from four different fathers. His mother doesn't work, of course, and feeds off the MA welfare, etc. even though she doesn't even live there anymore (gets the aid through her PO box in MA). Of course, like the other people in this topic, they have shit that no person in their position should need. Satellite TV, cell phones, a bunch of other shit, while the children are fed cereal for dinner and the adults get fish and a full dinner. The mother spends the $100 a week she gets from one of the fathers- the only one that actually pays up besides the boyfriend- on DVDs, movie tickets, dinner at a nice restaurant, and other shit that's certainly not a necessity.

The ex inherited similar values, which I'm not going to go into in depth this post. Let's just say he wasted my parents' money on college tuition for a summer and got a 1.9 GPA (failing two classes), convinced us to get him a $3000 laptop, and we paid for all his expenses while he lived with us for 6 months. And what do I get in return? Physical and verbal abuse on me and my mother, and 3 years wasted of my romantic life, as well as thousands of dollars. Well, at least now I'm with a lawyer who was a football player in college, so if he ever tries anything, he's fucked.


EDIT: Also forgot to add that my ex keylogged my computer to get my passwords, AIM conversations, etc, so I couldn't talk to any of my friends about it except in person, which isn't an option most of the time because of distance.

Where's that worst person alive thread again? This guy sounds like a total ass.

[onetrackmind]

Depends on where you live. In rural Ohio, for example, you'd find you could live even better than that for less money. In metropolitan New York, you probably couldn't even find a hovel. I'm talking averages.


http://realestate.yahoo.com/Homes_for_sale/detail.html?cid=c9093d52548931ae0e0bea54f7b5296d&cc=realestate&cs=price+2&view=&fullnodeid=750007014&csz=saint+louis%2C+MI&cl_l4pri=&ch_l4pri=50000&cl_bds=1&cl_bth=1.0&ce_login=&submit=Search

No i live in Missouri where the cost of living is still pretty cheap compared to the national average. If you are living in a rural area you need to factor in the amount of money you're going to spend on gas. I could live 2 hours away and probably live cheaper but in the end you're just wasting your time.

[Roufuss]

Wow... I expected to find some funny stories about rich people blowing loads of cash, but I didn't.

Someone move this shit to the Vs forum.

[mykevermin]

The problem here is that you are taking a difference(average income) and another difference(race) and claiming that the one is the cause of the other.

Well, given time ordering, it certainly isn't the case that underemployment causes one to become black.

Let me put this another way. Why do blacks earn the VAST majority of NCAA Basketball scholorships. Are Asians and Hispanics just too lazy to run? Are white people biologically pre-disposed to a meager vertical leap? Same goes for football as well. http://www.arthurhu.com/index/asports.htm

This, of course, assumes that you will find equal participation in sports among the races. Would you like to argue that? At any rate, you're comparing something viewed as socially extracurricular with something viewed as socially compulsory. Not everyone plays basketball, yet damn near everyone (I'm sure a few don't) spends a few years in school getting an education. Your sports analogy does what is referred to as "selecting on the dependent variable," and it also doesn't regard the fact that the population of people who play basketball is very different from the population in general (the one where we are all spending some modicum of time in school).

You've noted two differences. Can I explain the differences, no. Neither can you. You've simply assumed the one causes the other.Simply throwing inflammatory language into the mix adds nothing to your argument. Try to keep it civil, I have, and I expect the same from you.

I'll do my best to keep it civil.

As far as two uncorrelated differences, I've beaten these findings to death, but a sociologist (Devah Pager) has been working on a project comparing race and criminal history as a factor in determining employment. Now, it's not controversial at all to argue that having a felony background would impact your chances at employment. I hope we can agree on that. I also hope that you can agree that there is a certain degree of discrimination in our society; this discrimination, as backed up by the earnings and unemployment data from the BLS, works to the detriment of the black population in this country.

Still with me? Not disagreeing yet? Her premise (she has a paper out, soon to be a full-on book, entitled "The Mark of a Criminal Record") is that being black hurts your chances at employment more than being white, and having a criminal history hurts your chances more than not having one. That's not too out of this world a claim to make.

Her findings show that (and keep in mind that all study subjects are otherwise equal, other than race and criminal background - education, experience, family status, etc. - all equal) black males with no criminal background received fewer callbacks about prospective jobs than whites with felony histories. In short, both penalties (the race penalty and the felon penalty) exist; yet, the social penalty for being black is *more* than the social penalty for being an ex-felon!

It's not an unrelated phenomenon, and that's something that's undeniable. If it was just random error, we'd see even distribution of races impoverished in various cities, or we'd see differences from city to city (blacks are impoverished in one, latinos in another, asians in another, and perhaps even whites). Nevertheless, the pattern is thorough, consistent, and predictable: inner-city poor means "black."

[Revenantae]

No i live in Missouri where the cost of living is still pretty cheap compared to the national average. If you are living in a rural area you need to factor in the amount of money you're going to spend on gas. I could live 2 hours away and probably live cheaper but in the end you're just wasting your time.
Sorry friend, but the numbers are still pretty accruate, and if you want to get technical about your location, I just gave a link to a 35k house. That would cut your mortgage payment almost in half, and pay for all the driving you could want to do. But while we're on that point; remember the jobs we're talking about. $7/hr entry level at a fastfood or entertainment service spot. Large commutes don't generally apply. As to electricity, it varies pretty widely, but even in Arizona, keeping my house at a nipply 68 at night, I never paid past 130 in a month, so there isn't THAT much wiggle room.

[Dead of Knight]

Wow... I expected to find some funny stories about rich people blowing loads of cash, but I didn't.

Someone move this shit to the Vs forum.

Yeah, I was hoping I'd post something about Paris Hilton rather than my ex-boyfriend when I read the topic title. :(

[seanr1221]

First off, Mykevermin...:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: You said exactly what I wanted to say, but did it 10X better.

I'm not shocked to see how some people view the poor after seeing the views on racism amongst the people here.

Saying people are poor because it's it their fault they don't get up and do something about it is total bull shit. Guess how I got my first retail job at 16, when I had NO expierence? Give up? I was white, and I later found out my boss was a racist prick. (caught him throwing away any application given in by a person of color)

Guess how I have my job now that pays 15/hour and I'm 19? I knew someone who got me the job. So if you think you were not helped by anyone else to get where you are now, I call bull shit.

But I'll save you reading time and tell you to track down the 30-Days episode where the guy and his wife live off of min. wage for a month.

Watch that and you tell me, "If people just try they can avoid being poor."

[mtxbass1]

myke, a question if you will.

Do you believe that a persons ethnicity has an outcome on this person being able to make decisions with money? Does ethnicity affect their individual decision to make the right or wrong choice?

[Revenantae]

Well, given time ordering, it certainly isn't the case that underemployment causes one to become black.
Hahahah granted.

This, of course, assumes that you will find equal participation in sports among the races
I would argue that participation in athletics is pretty constant across races. However, that wasn't the point. The point was simply that it's fallacious to attribute one discrepancy to another discrepancy without any causitave links.

I'll do my best to keep it civil.
Appreciated. It is through discussions such as this that I find I learn the most... but I can't be engaged if people can't focus on the subject, rather than the debators.

Now, it's not controversial at all to argue that having a felony background would impact your chances at employment. I hope we can agree on that.
I would certianly agree there. The sorts of people that control hiring decisions at most non-mimimum wage jobs would find themselves uncomfortable in the company of a convited felon.

I also hope that you can agree that there is a certain degree of discrimination in our society
I might have argued this... but then I play Halo 2 on X-Box live.... agreed.


Still with me? Not disagreeing yet? Her premise (she has a paper out, soon to be a full-on book, entitled "The Mark of a Criminal Record") is that being black hurts your chances at employment more than being white, and having a criminal history hurts your chances more than not having one. That's not too out of this world a claim to make.
Not at all. I would tend to agree with that stipulation, as long as we make the agreement that this is not an open and shut thing. i.e. for some people in some areas, this will be more pertinent than for others in the same area, or others in different areas.

Her findings show that <SNIP>black males with no criminal background received fewer callbacks about prospective jobs than whites with felony histories. In short, both penalties (the race penalty and the felon penalty) exist; yet, the social penalty for being black is *more* than the social penalty for being an ex-felon!
Interesting. If you have links I'd love to read more.

Here's the thing. This is not the kiss of death. Even with multiple strikes against you, you can still succeed. My neighbor in San Diego was a black man, AND a convicted felon. He delt with it, and he's living the suburban dream.

I agree, certain people have it harder than others. No doubt about it. My neighbor Ricky, had it much tougher than me. I had it tougher than others. Damn near EVERYONE has it tougher than a Bush. But that doesn't mean you can't succeed or that your detractions obviate the need to try.

[Revenantae]

I'm not shocked to see how some people view the poor after seeing the views on racism amongst the people here.
My views of the poor have nothing to do with my views on race. All people are created equal, end of story.

Saying people are poor because it's it their fault they don't get up and do something about it is total bull shit.
In what way. How does being poor remove any of the opportunities or financial realities I've already posted?


But I'll save you reading time and tell you to track down the 30-Days episode where the guy and his wife live off of min. wage for a month.
I lived on minimum wage for years, I have no need of reading someone else's account if it, since I've DONE it.

[Quillion]

Her findings show that (and keep in mind that all study subjects are otherwise equal, other than race and criminal background - education, experience, family status, etc. - all equal) black males with no criminal background received fewer callbacks about prospective jobs than whites with felony histories. In short, both penalties (the race penalty and the felon penalty) exist; yet, the social penalty for being black is *more* than the social penalty for being an ex-felon!

Just wanted to add one question. Is she making a determination on how many employers knew of a candidate's felonies? As a former hiring manager, often we wouldn't know until after the second interview. Only once did someone broach the subject with me in an interview.

"Does it hurt my chances if I've been convicted of rape? Because I was framed the second time."

[AdamInPlaidum]

All I know is I'm 18 years old, and with no prior restaurant experience, I was able to easily secure a job as a waiter at the Olive Garden. In Oklahoma, it is still legal to pay servers below minimum wage, so I make a base pay of $2.13 an hour. With tips, however, on an absolutely horrendous night I can still make $8 an hour, and on a great night I can make anywhere up to $20 an hour. On an average night I make more per hour than either of my parents, easily. It's very hard work, but as long as I do what's expected of me, my job is secure. They are in constant need of waiters since turnover is very high, so nearly anyone (of any color or creed) can get a job there. I'm not sure if I know exactly what side of the fence I'm on in this discussion, so I'm just relating my own personal experiences. Take from it what you will.

[seanr1221]

My views of the poor have nothing to do with my views on race. All people are created equal, end of story.

I didn't say you, I said people on this board (I'm mostly talking about that old Loco Roco thread)


In what way. How does being poor remove any of the opportunities or financial realities I've already posted?

First, you don't think people of color have less opportunities then whites? You don't think people try to get out of poverty? You think they just blow money all the time like the sister in law in the OP does? Pass what you're smoking cause Id like some please.



I lived on minimum wage for years, I have no need of reading someone else's account if it, since I've DONE it.

It's a show, not a book. Take an hour out of your day and watch it.

[Revenantae]

First, you don't think people of color have less opportunities then whites?
Read my previous posts.

You don't think people try to get out of poverty?
Talking about it, and doing something about it are different. Actually TALK to a few people. Ask them what they are doing. I have, you know what I'm told? How HARD it is. Very rarely am I told "I'm taking classes." or "I'm visiting hob fairs." Most of the time I'm just told how difficult life is, and how HARD they're wroking. When it comes to actually DOING something, even something as simple as applying for WIC, nothing is actually being DONE.

You think they just blow money all the time like the sister in law in the OP does? Pass what you're smoking cause Id like some please.
First off, if you can't spare the insults, don't bother talking, I can filter you out pretty well. Second, YES. If you are poor, you do not NEED cable, or satellite, or a fancy new car, or spinners, or cigarettes, or cases of beer, or name brand clothes. YES. People are wasting a ton of their money. This one applies to people of all income levels. I have just as much sympathy (none) for a middle class guy losing his house because he bought more house than he could afford and spent his discretionary income on frivolities and had no savings.

It's a show, not a book. Take an hour out of your day and watch it.
Again, I HAVE the expreience, why should I view a show on it?

[mykevermin]

myke, a question if you will.

Do you believe that a persons ethnicity has an outcome on this person being able to make decisions with money? Does ethnicity affect their individual decision to make the right or wrong choice?

ethnicity directly? nah.

I would argue that living in poverty has an impact on education and knowledge-based resources (balancing a checkbook, for example, or putting money into savings). Since many minorities are heavily concentrated into poverty, then perhaps indirectly there is a relationship, but it means that poverty tends to reproduce itself, and race/ethnicity could surely be disguised as a causal factor to someone. I wouldn't argue that ethnicity is a direct cause of very much at all, except getting people who have a fetish for your particular ethnicity h-o-t-t.

Interesting. If you have links I'd love to read more.

Here's the thing. This is not the kiss of death. Even with multiple strikes against you, you can still succeed. My neighbor in San Diego was a black man, AND a convicted felon. He delt with it, and he's living the suburban dream.

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=mark+of+a+criminal+record&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Search
(you probably need to be logged in at a university to get it).

Success is entirely possible, but success for different people comes at a higher price. Is it easier for a middle or upper-class person to succeed, given the resources they have over working-class people? Sure it is, but we don't begrudge them that. OTOH, when poverty recreates itself (due to discrimination, a lack of resources - such as social networks - that help people get ahead, or whatever reason we believe is paramount), we tend to blame the individual for not using the resources that they really don't have (and I'm not really talking about grants or loans, but the knowledge of their presence, faith in legitimate means of success after a lifetime around legitimate people - and illegitimate people - who haven't done shit with their lives, and the knowledge to access these resources).

Just wanted to add one question. Is she making a determination on how many employers knew of a candidate's felonies? As a former hiring manager, often we wouldn't know until after the second interview. Only once did someone broach the subject with me in an interview.

"Does it hurt my chances if I've been convicted of rape? Because I was framed the second time."

Ha! Reminds me of a court case my sister handled, and the defendant claimed innocence because "I only stabbed her once, not twice!" Well, you bring up a damned good point; not everybody check criminal record. It *is* there on your application, however. More importantly, you claim (and I fully believe you) that criminal record may not be checked all the time. I'm very pro-ex-felon (why release them if you want to continue to marginalize them, I say), so that's fine. The patterns that emerge in the data, however, suggest that employers are noticing criminal history, and they sure are noticing race. If they weren't, then you'd have approximately equal numbers of each group getting turned down or not getting a callback.

It's not shocking at all to say that some would-be employers don't notice criminal history; but it is shocking to argue, as the conclusion leads one to, that the employers notice, and react to, presumed race rather than criminal history. Trust me, while I'm tired and feel like playing some Galaga right now, if you want I can link to a paper by Doug Massey and Garvey Lundy (names aren't important, but I may forget it later), who did apartment hunts with "middle-class whites" (so noted for their lack of accent), "black middle-class english" speakers (so noted for their Bryant Gumbel tone of voice) and "black english vernacular" (ebonics, if you prefer) speakers. Just speaking over the phone, with 0 face-to-face encounters, discrimination was found, with the BEV's getting the worst end of it, but the BME guys were turned down more than whites too. So there *are* ways of determining race that don't involve actually meeting a person. Is their name "Tyrone" or something similar? Do they have an address in the part of town recognized as the "black" part of town? Listen to their accent - is it a "black" one? Anyway, Galaga is calling me, so I forget my point - perhaps merely that it is shameful that employers are failing to take note of criminal convictions as much as they seem to do (as a whole) race.

[Revenantae]

I'm tired and feel like playing some Galaga
I'm feeling you there. Good discussion, great points to think about.

[epobirs]

I guess Robert Reich is a fool then when he was on C-Span saying the same thing I just paraphrased. :roll:

Oh, you mean the buffoon who insisted everything was going great while the tech bubble was getting ready to burst, that Robert Reich?

[mtxbass1]

Oh, you mean the buffoon who insisted everything was going great while the tech bubble was getting ready to burst, that Robert Reich?

:D

[epobirs]

Yet when our parents and grandparents where our age they could leave HS and make a living wage which in today's America you need a college education, clean credit, clean criminal history and a good luck wish just to have a CHANCE of getting a job that will let you move out of your parent's house.

My god, what a terrible imposition. Asking that someone not have a history of criminal acts, like stealing from an employer or assaulting a fellow employee. How dare they expect that of a person who be in their pay and possibly representing them to the public.

And if you're at an age when you're looking to move out on your own for the first time, how the hell do manage to get a bad credit record?

You have remarkable capacity for whining. Perhaps it should go on your resume.

I'm a high school drop out. I got a GED much later but I created my own bad situation. Yet there was never a time when I couldn't find a job that would keep me going in a dinky studio or one bedroom apartment if I had the desire. The #1 obstacle to my success has alway been me. All of the things that worked against me, like my father dying when I was twelve, are terribly minor compared to the difficulty of doing what was required to hold down a decent job. I once had a co-worker who didn't see a working TV until he was 18 and had recently arrived near starvation in a boat convoy from Vietnam. The last time I saw him he was leaving our then mutual employer to take a Unix admin job that paid more annually than his grandparents had seen in their entire lifetimes. That was ten years ago and I have no doubt he's still doing well today.

You don't have to be a high achiever. In fact, that isn't always an advantage. I score from 140-155 on IQ tests, depending on my condition at the time, but it would be no problem for me to find countless individuals in my community who've been vastly better earners in their lives with lesser cognitive ability. They show up and do their jobs correctly, even if it's pretty boring and there are any number of things they'd rather be doing. I have no illusion that the stuff I regard as slow torture is pleasant for anyone else. The weakness is all mine.

Some people come from severely broken cultures. What happened in New Orleans was no surprise to me. It was a fun place to visit but the most grotesquely corrupt city I've ever seen within the US. That the infrastructure folded like a house of cards the first time it was ever really tested is just the way it goes when having blatant criminals in charge of things is considered local charm.

The biggest obstacle many born into minority groups face is not prejudicial treatment. No matter who you are you will eventually find someone in a position of power who will use it against you. The greatest obstacle is overcoming defective culture. All sorts of efforts have been made to provide aid in myriad forms but this cannot reshape the attitudes children receive from their parents. My Vietnamese co-worker was directly the product of his culture but most of my black friends look upon themselves as refugees from the culture that produced them. Now, these are guys who tend to be the same kinds of geeks as myself, which is why we ever became friends in the first place, but they've been made to feel like outcasts at times. At one time I thought it was something that died out in the 70s but all of them have mentioned being criticized for 'acting white,' especially when taking tech courses at school while ignoring things like 'Afro-American Studies.' They tended to feel they already had that one covered at birth.

Just about all of these guys date or married white or Asian women because they've become so alienated from other blacks. The one who married a black women found the perfect geekette to his geek. Their kids should have CalTech scholarships stapled to their birth certificates.

[Metal Boss]

Your sister is a moron

[mykevermin]

Some people come from severely broken cultures. What happened in New Orleans was no surprise to me. It was a fun place to visit but the most grotesquely corrupt city I've ever seen within the US. That the infrastructure folded like a house of cards the first time it was ever really tested is just the way it goes when having blatant criminals in charge of things is considered local charm.

The biggest obstacle many born into minority groups face is not prejudicial treatment. No matter who you are you will eventually find someone in a position of power who will use it against you. The greatest obstacle is overcoming defective culture. All sorts of efforts have been made to provide aid in myriad forms but this cannot reshape the attitudes children receive from their parents. My Vietnamese co-worker was directly the product of his culture but most of my black friends look upon themselves as refugees from the culture that produced them. Now, these are guys who tend to be the same kinds of geeks as myself, which is why we ever became friends in the first place, but they've been made to feel like outcasts at times. At one time I thought it was something that died out in the 70s but all of them have mentioned being criticized for 'acting white,' especially when taking tech courses at school while ignoring things like 'Afro-American Studies.' They tended to feel they already had that one covered at birth.

Just about all of these guys date or married white or Asian women because they've become so alienated from other blacks. The one who married a black women found the perfect geekette to his geek. Their kids should have CalTech scholarships stapled to their birth certificates.

So, perhaps you can explain to me how racial disparities in poverty and employment have been "American" far longer than mom and apple pie, are explained by a "defective culture" that, in many cases, people argue is a phenomenon of the past 4 decades or so (ironically, about the same time the civil rights act passed)? How can something so pervasive and constant be explained by something that happened after the fact?

"defective culture" is merely a polite way of saying "blacks are lazy and dumb."

[CappyCobra]

...You have remarkable capacity for whining. Perhaps it should go on your resume... http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/7647/ohsnap10340582pi5.gif (http://imageshack.us)
(Pulls up a seat and a bucket of popcorn...)
DOW and SP have gone no where in the last 6 years...
What financials are you reading? The DOW is higher than it's ever been in a long time. S&P's are not doing too bad either.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=SPY&t=5y&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=%5EDJI&t=5y

[AYATOLA]

It's just my opinion that people nowadays: (a) don't know the meaning of hard work (b) spend on crap they don't need.
I mean if you rent you are all ready throwing money away. It’s almost always cheaper to own then it is to rent.

Also, why is it that many minorities come to this country and bust their ass and make it? Look at mid-easterners inside the car/wrecker/gestations business, or Asian people with liquor stores and washeterias. I mean the idea is simple live super cheap for 10-15 and just work with your money. Starting a small business is not all that hard (pending on what you go into); you just need dedication and a dream.

I've watched my parents who came from Iran during the Iranian revolution with no monetary support and being Iranian during the whole hostage situation. Now they are more then well off. So what, right? In high school no one believed my family was worth what it really was because I don’t care for flashy clothes, car, cell phone, or any other crap. So now (with the help of my parents but still I work and go to school) I have a paid off car and am looking into buying an apartment close to my schools campus.
At the end of the day I might not have partied or gone on those vacations or any other stereotypical youthful crap, but I know I will be financially secure whether my parents put me in the will or not, and for that I am most thankful of them.


I do agree with the racism point that has been made, but workplace racism/prejudice is a two way street. I have noticed that once there is black management a majority of subordinate positions become black as well, at my workplace we have 3 token white guys, one Hispanic , one Asian, me (Iranian), all other 23 positions are black from district manager down. I have no problem with race but I just wanted to point out that the issue posed, although is increasingly a black problem, it is none-the-less a 2-way street IMO.

[SIUfan]

Wherein lieth the comedy? Earning what you have? I guess that might be funny if you're exceptionally coddled.

QFT

[mtxbass1]

I mean if you rent you are all ready throwing money away. It’s almost always cheaper to own then it is to rent.


A lot of people simply can't buy a house from the get-go. I'll use myself as an example.

I've been renting for about 4 years. I moved to my current location to go to school and have ended up staying. However, being a young college student, I barely had money as it is and there was no way I could buy a house. For me, renting was/is the best option. I'm now looking at buying a home, but I'm much better off now than I was back then. I don't consider any of the money I've spent so far being "thrown away". You have to live somewhere and at the time I had no other choice but to rent until things get financially better.

The main problem people face with buying a home is a down payment. Even in a case with a 97/3 loan, a lot can't even come up with the 3%. People often get in trouble when purchasing a house, especially with piggyback loans. Often is the case that people will do piggyback loans to avoid paying PMI, but what they didn't know is they could have just paid PMI up front, and came out much cheaper to begin with. Don't even get me started on HELOC's. ;)

Owning *may* be cheaper than renting about half the time, but it really depends on the situation and location. When you own, you have to factor in a lot of things that you don't when you rent. These things (such as mobility) are often worth more money to an individual than the actual money they "save" by buying a home.

[dberuvides]

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/7647/ohsnap10340582pi5.gif (http://imageshack.us)
(Pulls up a seat and a bucket of popcorn...)

What financials are you reading? The DOW is higher than it's ever been in a long time. S&P's are not doing too bad either.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=SPY&t=5y&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=%5EDJI&t=5y

The Dow was 11,750 back in 2000!! Where is it now????

[mtxbass1]

The Dow was 11,750 back in 2000!! Where is it now????

Do you not even realize what an impact that 9/11 had on the market?!

The dow sank 684.81 points in ONE DAY! What the hell are you expecting here? It takes time to rebuild.

Not to even mention the fact that 2003 was the FIRST YEAR since 1999 that the dow had a winning year.

Where is it now? 11,177. Pretty damn close to where it was back then. Given the situations with war, hurricanes, and everything else, I think that's pretty good.

[Icen]

Someone care to tell me where all these poor people with Hummers, cable, and name brand clothes reside... because I have never see any of this in any of the slums I've ever driven through. As far as I'm concerned this is a gross misuse of hyperbole, so would one of the rags to riches successes in this thread go take some photos of this phenomena and prove me wrong? Your cousin's sister's friend isn't an accurate portrayal of poor people as a whole; don't let one bad apple spoil the bunch.

Hey Eric P, boy you’ve sure had it tough. I mean, landing a job working for Cinemaware in the mid 80’s as a high school dropout with no GED. Wow, that’s rough… By the way I love how you try to bolster your argument (and yourself) by mentioning your 150 IQ, it brings real credibility to your argument… I mean, how can I argue with a genius? I would’ve thought a 41 year old man would feel secure enough with his intelligence to not have to brag about it every other post.

Revenantae, how does it feel to have earned everything on your own (“nobody gave me anything”), I mean, I always believed I was given many of my physical and mental traits through genetics. I’m sorry that not every poor person has the brains or same ability to concentrate as you, and thus school will do nothing for them. Oh and using a government program to help you get a house isn’t really getting it on your own…

“All people are created equal, end of story.” This statement contradicts itself.

Mxtbass1, wow you’ve had it rough as well. I mean working a minimum wage job through high school, boy I guess all the millions of other teenagers working for minimum wage who are currently in school have it rough as well. Loans for college too, oh my god you are amazing! Go take me some photos of these SUVs with 24” rims parked outside ratty houses, because I mean, just because someone lives in a ratty house they must be poor… I’m sorry not everyone was raised with the same priorities as you…

Friedram, wow man I never knew that two people could be representative of poor people as a whole. I mean they had friends who did crack? Holy mother of God, that must have really set them back. And by the way, not everyone has the same level of “intelegence” as your friends and thus cannot get into Caltech. By the way, how is one supposed to “make [his or her] own luck?”

Summary (for those who cannot concentrate for extended periods of time):
- Just because people live in a “ratty” house doesn’t mean they are poor
- Your cousin's sister's friend isn't an accurate portrayal of poor people as a whole
- Someone take some photos of these poor people with SUVs and 24” rims
- The people in this thread didn’t really have it terribly rough at all, and have no idea what it means to be living in true poverty
- We need a thread dedicated to bragging because obviously half the people in this thread would love to discuss how they (all by themselves) went from rags to riches
-Nepotism works wonders

Edited for grammar.

[mtxbass1]

Someone care to tell me where all these poor people with Hummers, cable, and name brand clothes reside... because I have never see any of this in any of the slums I've ever driven through.


Mxtbass1, wow you’ve had it rough as well. I mean working a minimum wage job through high school, boy I guess all the millions of other teenagers working for minimum wage who are currently in school have it rough as well. Loans for college too, oh my god you are amazing! Go take me some photos of these SUVs with 24” rims parked outside ratty houses, because I mean, just because someone lives in a ratty house they must be poor… I’m sorry not everyone was raised with the same priorities as you…



Ahh Icen, how I remember you bitching about your situation before and me proving every point you made wrong. Good to see you're back to your old stubborn self. Are you going to whine more about outsourcing? Want to troll a little more?

Since you feel the need to attack me, I'll gladly go and grab some pictures of what I'm talking about the next time I'm out. It is common in the deep south to see cars with 24" rims parked in the projects. I dare you to come here and prove me otherwise. I'll gladly show you entire neighborhoods just like this. Does that mean that all people with 24" rims are poor or live in ratty houses, or vice versa? It doesn't imply anything other than to them their "priorities" are all show and nothing else.

I have no problem admitting that I had the help of others to get me to where I am today. But did those others make the decisions for me to get this far? Hardly. Do those people that helped me in the slightest bit have any further impact on my life? No.

I find it amusing that you come into this thread and feel the need to attack anyone who has posted anything here that was the least bit informative. I suggest you take out your anger on your Xbox the next time you are playing Halo with the other kids.

Icen, buddy, you have 38 posts on this board. Almost all have been nothing but that of a typical troll. Go away.

[Icen]

"I find it amusing that you come into this thread and feel the need to attack anyone who has posted anything here that was the least bit informative. I suggest you take out your anger on your Xbox the next time you are playing Halo with the other kids."

Resorting to gauche attacks regarding someone's age is the true sign of a mature person.

"Since you feel the need to attack me, I'll gladly go and grab some pictures of what I'm talking about the next time I'm out. It is common in the deep south to see cars with 24" rims parked in the projects. I dare you to come here and prove me otherwise. I'll gladly show you entire neighborhoods just like this."

You do that. I've lived in the "Deep South," the "Mid South," and out west, and as far as I'm concerned very few people such as the described exist. But then again, I don't often go driving through the slums.

"Icen, buddy, you have 38 posts on this board. Almost all have been nothing but that of a typical troll."

Your point being? It seems like half the posts you make are about how worked so hard through life and now you work 30 hours a week and bring home more than 65K a year and how you won't work for less than 60K. Soon you'll be going into topics where some teenager discusses his job making 10 an hour and you'll be scoffing at him (ala JaveryH).

"I have no problem admitting that I had the help of others to get me to where I am today. But did those others make the decisions for me to get this far? Hardly. Do those people that helped me in the slightest bit have any further impact on my life? No."

I'm not here to get into a discussion of whether or not humans truely have "free will," as I believe it will suffice to say that you were given inherent traits at birth and raised in an enviornment that made you who you are today and thus "those others" do affect any "decisions" you make. You are not your own man, you are merely a product of the mother who raised you and the enviornment you were raised in.

[mtxbass1]

Resorting to gauche attacks regarding someone's age is the true sign of a mature person.


So resorting to attacking everyone inside a thread who has an opinion is somehow being mature? Way to go ace.


You do that. I've lived in the "Deep South," the "Mid South," and out west, and as far as I'm concerned very few people such as the described exist. But then again, I don't often go driving through the slums.

So since you haven't seen it for yourself, it doesn't exist? Perhaps "very few people" inside your own little world, but it is a common fact that people live WELL beyond their means and have their priorities mixed up. Welcome to America.



Your point being? It seems like half the posts you make are about how worked so hard through life and now you work 30 hours a week and bring home more than 65K a year and how you won't work for less than 60K. Soon you'll be going into topics where some teenager discusses his job making 10 an hour and you'll be scoffing at him (ala JaveryH).

My point being that you contribute nothing to this board. You post only to invoke a response from someone and contribute absolutely nothing to the threads you post in. You are a troll. Plain and simple. You are a waste of time.

And half the posts I make? I'm glad you glad to read through this thread and pick out instances to make such rash genralizations about my posts. With over 3000 posts on this board I find it funny for you to generalize that "half" of mine are like this. I simply find it amazing that you try to attack others that make a statement, such as "all men are created equal" and you yourself can make draw a conclusion about someones posts simply by what they have said inside of one or two threads. Good job buddy. You should look up the word "hypocrite" in the dictionary.


I'm not here to get into a discussion of whether or not humans truely have "free will," as I believe it will suffice to say that you were given inherent traits at birth and raised in an enviornment that made you who you are today and thus "those others" do affect any "decisions" you make. You are not your own man, you are merely a product of the mother who raised you and the enviornment you were raised in.

I agree with you that ANYONE is a product of a family and their environment, however that environment has little impact on any decision I make. If I choose to buy a car tomorrow, the fact that I grew up in a certain environment has ZERO IMPACT on that decision.

Learn how to quote. It's not all that hard, type [ quote ] and [ /quote] without the spaces.

I'm glad you feel the need to attack anyone in this thread. This topic did not start out in the verses forum and was quite civil until you reared your hypocritical head in here.

[elprincipe]

When I read the thread title, I thought it was going to be about stupid rich people, not stupid poor people.

When I clicked on it I was expecting to see George Soros as well.

[Quackzilla]

EDIT: Also forgot to add that my ex keylogged my computer to get my passwords, AIM conversations, etc, so I couldn't talk to any of my friends about it except in person, which isn't an option most of the time because of distance.
That just fucking creepy...

[elprincipe]

I guess Robert Reich is a fool then

You guess right.

[Icen]

Do you have nothing better to do than argue with a child Mxtbass1? If you want to keep this thread "civil" why do you keep resorting to ad hominem attacks. "Way to go ace." Why don't you stop resorting to such childish antics and address the issues I brought up? Since you probably already forgot what they were I'll bring them up again.

Poor people (for the most part) spend their money on neccessities, nothing more. Such people do not drive SUVs with 24" rims.

Most poor people do not "bring it on" themselves. They are born into a cycle of poverty which is extremely difficult (and impossible for some) to escape from.

Just because you had such a difficult life, and mangaged to make something of your