Last PC Building Thread...

[Full_Throttle]

... made by me. Alright, I've done all of my research, and I will buy the Conroe 2.4GHz processor and compatible mobo next month, when prices drop an estimated $70. So, my specs so far (with an added estimate of $500 for the mobo and processor):

--Samsung SpinPoint 160GB 7200RPM Hard Drive, 54.99: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822152020

--Blue Chenming ATX Case, 58.99:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811125438

--nVidia GeForce 7950GX2, 1GB, 499.99:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130023

--SoundBlaster X-Fi XtremeMusic 7.1, 121.99:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16829102188

--Corsair 2GB DDR800 Memory, 276.00:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145589

--Samsung Combo CD/DVD Drive, 22.99:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827151086

--HannsG 19" Widescreen Monitor, 182.99:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824254005

--2.4GHz 4mb Cache Core 2 Duo (as of now), 339.00

--ASUS P5W DH Deluxe Mobo (as of now), 279.99

--Already got speakers, mouse, keyboard.


Now, this seems to not be any better of a deal than if I would buy a PC off of iBuyPower. Is there something I am doing wrong? I am adding too much of a thing? Now I have three other questions.

1) Do I need a certain type of RAM to be compatible with my chosen mobo/processor?
2) Do I want DVI-D? If so, is my screen compatible?
3) Is the video card SLi ready? I know it seems to be a bit much, but it is actually not more expensive than a 7900GTX. $50 extra.

So, what can I tweak? I still want to be able to upgrade it when need arises. The total for the PC is figured at $1780, with shipping and all. I guess it doesn't seem too pricey for a computer of this grade, but still not much of a difference from buying prebuilt. Anything I should change? Or any major piece of hardware I am forgetting?


Thanks a million you guys, you've helped me a lot so far.

[jmcc]

You're building this next month? When you get ready to, re-evaluate your motherboard choice. There will be Nvidia 570 and 590 boards out by then and they might be cheaper and will be guaranteed to be SLI-capable (I think that Asus you list is, but I don't think it's officially supported.) Also, I still advise against that video card. You're throwing money away buying that expensive a card now, when DirectX10 cards will be out by the end of the year. You're going to want one of those to get the most out of future (like, next year) games.

[NoRain]

That is an overly nice rig. I wouldn't ever put that much into a computer that high end unless I had a real good reason to. I figure if you are gonna rock a 500 dollar video card that is only gonna have one monitor hooked to it then I figure you might want to go with a meaner hard drive. One of those higher rpm drives. WD Raptors? 10K rpm and just keep windows and your game of the moment on it and then have a 2nd larger drive to rock media and non fast access stuff.

[CaseyRyback]

There are other retailers than newegg. Zip Zoom Fly has been running deals on X-fi cards for the past couple of weeks. Last week they had a Fatality (for less AR then what you are planning on paying for a regular x-fi), this week they have a plain x-fi (was 60, then 70 AR, not they are OOS), so maybe next week they may have a platinum. As far as the ram goes, you could get some OCZ ram for far less than that at outpost (someone over at SD posted a 2gb kit for 129.99 AR).

[NoRain]

You're building this next month? When you get ready to, re-evaluate your motherboard choice. There will be Nvidia 570 and 590 boards out by then and they might be cheaper and will be guaranteed to be SLI-capable (I think that Asus you list is, but I don't think it's officially supported.) Also, I still advise against that video card. You're throwing money away buying that expensive a card now, when DirectX10 cards will be out by the end of the year. You're going to want one of those to get the most out of future (like, next year) games.

QFT. But that is the problem with building any PC theres always something better coming out next month.

[Full_Throttle]

That is an overly nice rig. I wouldn't ever put that much into a computer that high end unless I had a real good reason to. I figure if you are gonna rock a 500 dollar video card that is only gonna have one monitor hooked to it then I figure you might want to go with a meaner hard drive. One of those higher rpm drives. WD Raptors? 10K rpm and just keep windows and your game of the moment on it and then have a 2nd larger drive to rock media and non fast access stuff.

Yes, that's what I meant buy "I want to upgrade it when need arises". When next year's games come out, I will for sure buy a 10K RPM hard drive, and make a bunch of virtual image files of my games and store those on the 7200RPM.

[Full_Throttle]

There are other retailers than newegg. Zip Zoom Fly has been running deals on X-fi cards for the past couple of weeks. Last week they had a Fatality (for less AR then what you are planning on paying for a regular x-fi), this week they have a plain x-fi (was 60, then 70 AR, not they are OOS), so maybe next week they may have a platinum. As far as the ram goes, you could get some OCZ ram for far less than that at outpost (someone over at SD posted a 2gb kit for 129.99 AR).

Huh, couldn't find any better deals on ZipZoomFly. I'll look it over again. Thanks.

[Full_Throttle]

You're building this next month? When you get ready to, re-evaluate your motherboard choice. There will be Nvidia 570 and 590 boards out by then and they might be cheaper and will be guaranteed to be SLI-capable (I think that Asus you list is, but I don't think it's officially supported.) Also, I still advise against that video card. You're throwing money away buying that expensive a card now, when DirectX10 cards will be out by the end of the year. You're going to want one of those to get the most out of future (like, next year) games.

Hmm, so would you advise getting a low-ish 128/256mb graphics card to play games now, and later on get the DirectX10 cards when they come out?


PS
Damnit, sorry for the triple posts. I just had to respond to all of you.

[jmcc]

QFT. But that is the problem with building any PC theres always something better coming out next month.That's the same thing someone said last time. But it's not an incremental upgrade. DirectX 9 came out in 2002. That's a 4 year "cycle." Buying a top of the line card that will be obsolete in a matter of months is like me buying a AMD 939 chip now. It's not something I'd do (I'm just throwing a cheap 7600 in my rig I'm assembling) and it's not something I can recommend. As a real world anecdote, in the Crysis demo they reportedly had to run 4 SLIed cards to make it perform comparably to what a DirectX10 card would.

[jmcc]

Hmm, so would you advise getting a low-ish 128/256mb graphics card to play games now, and later on get the DirectX10 cards when they come out?Exactly. If you've got unlimited income, don't worry about it. But if you're going to want to keep up with the shiniest games that are coming on Vista, you're going to want a DX10 card. And that's 6 months away.

[Full_Throttle]

I don't really have unlimited income, but this is the first summer I've had a job, and I made over $2000. So, I figured a new computer since our old 2001 desktop would be a nice upgrade. I am hoping to go to Switzerland with some friends during Winter break and make some money there. So I'll have enough money. I'm still in high school so I live with my parents to support me ;)

Edit: which card should I get as a temporary? Do Radeon run cheaper than nVidia? And what would I need for a LAN connection to my router with bluetooth? Just a LAN card, or some special hardware?

[jmcc]

I don't really have unlimited income, but this is the first summer I've had a job, and I made over $2000. So, I figured a new computer since our old 2001 desktop would be a nice upgrade. I am hoping to go to Switzerland with some friends during Winter break and make some money there. So I'll have enough money. I'm still in high school so I live with my parents to support me ;)

Edit: which card should I get as a temporary? Do Radeon run cheaper than nVidia?Deals come and go. I'm going with Nvidia this time after ATI last time. I just hate ATI's drivers. They were always a pain to get working.

[Full_Throttle]

I've looked around on NewEgg. This is what seemed appealing, since it's 128mb onboard (even though it has shared): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814121214

Anyone know if it's any good?

[Vinny]

Do not get shared memory GPUs...

I'm with jmcc about getting a decent card for now and waiting on DX10 (since it looks like you can afford it). But get something that'll be able to handle some decent games at least. DX10 cards from Nvidia [I]should/I] be out before the end of year and ATI early next year but nothings really confirmed.

I picked up this card, a PowerColor X800GTO.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814131007

It's the best sub $100 card I've found after a ton of research (I spent nearly 4 months researching my build as I've found forum opinions to conflict too much). I can run HL2 on all high settings and HDR @ 1680x1050 smoothly. I even added 16x anisotropic filtering, HDR, and Vsync and the card handles it very well besides a hiccup here and there. Sure the game is 2 years old but it's still mighty impressed I'd say. I can also run FEAR with mostly high settings at 1280x1024 very well.

I like ATI's cards due to being able to use HDR with AA and anisotropic filtering but Nvidias cards do push out more power. But if you want Nvidia, I'd go with this. You should be able to sell the cards off for around half what you pay for them... remember, not everybody buys the latest things (as the two GPUs linked show).
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814150130

Now I'm going to be critical about your set-up. You're spending a ton of money on what's obviously going to be a hell of a gaming machine, yet the monitor you picked out... well, seems kinda average. The numbers are great but I don't trust most of the smaller companies. Viewsonic and Samsung have some really good monitors but they're a bit more expensive.

Also, what kinda of Power Supply are you getting? You're going to need a beast of a PS if you plan to get 7950GX2, not to mention if and when you get another one. They recommend 28A on the +12V rail for a single card!!!:-o

[SOSTrooper]

I might be missing something, but why aren't you getting a DVD burner (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827151118) instead?

And you can probably save $100 on the DDR2 800 if you look out for deals that are posted often on Fatwallet and/or Slickdeals.net.

As for the video card, find a placeholder for now. But I think I remember you said you wanted to play Oblivion, if so then I would probably get a $250 7900GT. While it is not much of a 'placeholder', but rather an investment on a solid card, it is probably the better bang for the buck for now if you really want to run Oblivion decently. When you feel like you're ready to upgrade to DX10 cards, probably when games start to utilize DX10 fully, then you can upgrade to a better video card.

[Duo_Maxwell]

I agree with jmcc and the others, you are way overspending on the graphics card at this point. If you plan on running SLi there's really no reason to get a card that powerful at all IMO, but I can see where some you disagree with me there. However, personally I don't think the 1GB is not going to that much faster or even all that helpful either. The max resolution of your monitor is only 1440x900 too, something a video card with 512 (and maybe some 256 cards) can hanlde onboard fairly easily. I mean having a video card that can run top notch settings at top speeds for something like 1600x1200 or 1920x1080 without dipping into system memory maybe good for the future, but for your current video setup, it's not all that necessary and by the time you upgrade your montior DX10 will probably be all over the place so you may as well upgrade the video card.

Also I'd spend the extra 8-10 bucks for a DVd burner like SOS suggested. And like Vinny just mentioned, where's your power supply? That's alot more extra cost added on for the mammoth PSU you're going to need in that thing.

[Full_Throttle]

Do not get shared memory GPUs...

I'm with jmcc about getting a decent card for now and waiting on DX10 (since it looks like you can afford it). But get something that'll be able to handle some decent games at least. DX10 cards from Nvidia [i]should/I] be out before the end of year and ATI early next year but nothings really confirmed.

I picked up this card, a PowerColor X800GTO.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814131007

It's the best sub $100 card I've found after a ton of research (I spent nearly 4 months researching my build as I've found forum opinions to conflict too much). I can run HL2 on all high settings and HDR @ 1680x1050 smoothly. I even added 16x anisotropic filtering, HDR, and Vsync and the card handles it very well besides a hiccup here and there. Sure the game is 2 years old but it's still mighty impressed I'd say. I can also run FEAR with mostly high settings at 1280x1024 very well.

I like ATI's cards due to being able to use HDR with AA and anisotropic filtering but Nvidias cards do push out more power. But if you want Nvidia, I'd go with this. You should be able to sell the cards off for around half what you pay for them... remember, not everybody buys the latest things (as the two GPUs linked show).
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814150130

Now I'm going to be critical about your set-up. You're spending a ton of money on what's obviously going to be a hell of a gaming machine, yet the monitor you picked out... well, seems kinda average. The numbers are great but I don't trust most of the smaller companies. Viewsonic and Samsung have some really good monitors but they're a bit more expensive.

Also, what kinda of Power Supply are you getting? You're going to need a beast of a PS if you plan to get 7950GX2, not to mention if and when you get another one. They recommend 28A on the +12V rail for a single card!!!:-o

Hmm, I guess I'll spend $100 until mid-next year when nVidia's D-X10 becomes a bit cheaper. I'm not really sure about the power supply. I'm assuming it should be evened out because the Conroe does not require as much as previous processors. I actually do not think that I will be adding a second graphics card until waaaaaay later, about 4 years from now, so I'm not worrying about that now.

[Full_Throttle]

I might be missing something, but why aren't you getting a DVD burner (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827151118) instead?

And you can probably save $100 on the DDR2 800 if you look out for deals that are posted often on Fatwallet and/or Slickdeals.net.

As for the video card, find a placeholder for now. But I think I remember you said you wanted to play Oblivion, if so then I would probably get a $250 7900GT. While it is not much of a 'placeholder', but rather an investment on a solid card, it is probably the better bang for the buck for now if you really want to run Oblivion decently. When you feel like you're ready to upgrade to DX10 cards, probably when games start to utilize DX10 fully, then you can upgrade to a better video card.

I've thought about getting a DVD burner, but I've realized that I really don't need it. I know it's not that much, but it would just take up room in my case (I think). I've never had the need to burn DVDs, so I thought that a nice upgrade from a 16x CD READER would be a 52x CD RW.

I think that 250 is a bit too much, and that the card is too advanced to be just a placeholder, just like you said. I don't need Oblivion on hard-core crazy graphics, since I'm used to playing it at 15 FPS on my old computer right now. I was thinking getting a small 256mb shared, 128 solid so that I can play games like BF2 with a bit of "pizzazz". I know that shared is not good - at all - but I believe it would make a nice placeholder for the price and power.

[Full_Throttle]

I agree with jmcc and the others, you are way overspending on the graphics card at this point. If you plan on running SLi there's really no reason to get a card that powerful at all IMO, but I can see where some you disagree with me there. However, personally I don't think the 1GB is not going to that much faster or even all that helpful either. The max resolution of your monitor is only 1440x900 too, something a video card with 512 (and maybe some 256 cards) can hanlde onboard fairly easily. I mean having a video card that can run top notch settings at top speeds for something like 1600x1200 or 1920x1080 without dipping into system memory maybe good for the future, but for your current video setup, it's not all that necessary and by the time you upgrade your montior DX10 will probably be all over the place so you may as well upgrade the video card.

Also I'd spend the extra 8-10 bucks for a DVd burner like SOS suggested. And like Vinny just mentioned, where's your power supply? That's alot more extra cost added on for the mammoth PSU you're going to need in that thing.

I think you skipped over something, because I've already decided to get a small placeholder graphics card (or am I not understanding correctly?). I'm going to get a cheap, but good, 256mb shared (128 dedicated 128 shared) graphics card off of newegg for around $50. It would be able to run the latest games, even if on low settings, until I the nVidia D-X10 cards "cheapen" down in the middle of next year. As I said, the DVD burner would, I presume, just take space in my computer, seeing as I would nearly never use it. I really have no idea whatsoever about the power supply. Is it possible to get something big, like 750W (monster compared to what I've ever seen) and get some special power down-sizer for until I upgrade my copmuter? Ie use only the 500W I need with my temp graphics card and when need arises use all the 750?

[CaseyRyback]

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=290236&ps=ho2

it is now 75 AR, but still not a bad deal

[mtxbass1]

Edit:


1) Do I need a certain type of RAM to be compatible with my chosen mobo/processor?
2) Do I want DVI-D? If so, is my screen compatible?
3) Is the video card SLi ready? I know it seems to be a bit much, but it is actually not more expensive than a 7900GTX. $50 extra.

So, what can I tweak?
Thanks a million you guys, you've helped me a lot so far.
1. DDR 2 is what you want. The RAM you chosen is more than fast enough. You may want to consider a lower cas latency.
2. I run dual DVI myself. The monitor you chose is fine, but "Hanns G" is pretty low frills.
3. See other peoples comments about the card. You are really better off not going with this card and getting a placeholder like others have said.

You are so dead set on getting the fastest Conroe and videocard that you often forget the other components completely. Such is the case with your hard drive choice. With 300GB drives easily under $100 it's a no-brainer to go with something much larger. You may think 160gb is a lot. Trust me. It's not.

[Full_Throttle]

You are so dead set on getting the fastest Conroe and videocard that you often forget the other components completely. Such is the case with your hard drive choice. With 300GB drives easily under $100 it's a no-brainer to go with something much larger. You may think 160gb is a lot. Trust me. It's not.
Well, that is the reason why I am going with only 160GB. It seems like a lot, since my current hard drive has 80GB, which I have not completely used yet. I was thinking of getting a 160GB for installing my games, and a larger one for placing my image files of those games so I can play without a physical CD. Or I may just go with dual 300GB ;) And I really need help choosing a monitor. I can't seem to find any "good ones" which are widescreen. Can anyone help there?

[mtxbass1]

Well, that is the reason why I am going with only 160GB. It seems like a lot, since my current hard drive has 80GB, which I have not completely used yet. I was thinking of getting a 160GB for installing my games, and a larger one for placing my image files of those games so I can play without a physical CD. Or I may just go with dual 300GB ;) And I really need help choosing a monitor. I can't seem to find any "good ones" which are widescreen. Can anyone help there?

The point is this though. For a few bucks more you can get quite a few GB of storage more. There is a curve with hard drive prices and you want to make sure you get the most GB for your money without the price going up significantly.

As for monitors, I run Dual Dell 20.1" FPW 2005's. Excellent widescreen monitors that have nearly every connection you can think of, along with screens that can be rotated either horizontally or vertically.

[Full_Throttle]

F***. I just read that the Kentsfield "quad core" are coming out at the end of 2006. Is it worth waiting for? Or.... even better... is it possible to have one Conroe and one Kentsfield processor in the same mobo?? I know, stupid question, but I'm a stupid guy when it comes to computers.

[mojoman5165]

Go with the Viewsonic for monitor:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824116373

Core 2 duo should be enough to meet your needs.

If you get a video card, go with the 1800 series from ATI or 7800 series from nVidia. They're around $200 dollars and should be good enough for a couple of years when all the stuff coming out soon will be a lot cheaper so that you can upgrade.

Definintely get a bigger hard drive. You can get a 250GB one for only 80 dollars.

A DVD burner won't take up any more space. Just replace what you were gonna buy with one. Then it'll just be an added feature that you can use if you need it.

Also, what kind of speakers do you have? You may not want to spend that much money on a sound card if they aren't that good.

[Full_Throttle]

I have 2.1 speakers, 26 watts, from Fred Meyers. I am hoping to upgrade to some nicer surround sound speakers, or possibly even the Home Theater standing speaker sets.

The thing that I don't like about the monitor is the contrast ratio. I saw some monitors out on display at Best Buy, and the 500:1 seemed very... bad. I am looking for a 1000:1, which was beautiful, yet expensive at Best Buy. I am hoping that buying online would be cheaper.

And I've chosen a new hard drive. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148140 320GB 7200RPM, just under $100. Now what I need is an answer to a question.

Can I have 2GB of DDR2 RAM, and when DDR3 comes out add another GB of that? Or do they all have to be the same?

TO DO:

-Pick out a monitor
-Pick out some RAM
-Find out if another case is better
-Wait for Conroe to become cheaper

[mtxbass1]

The thing that I don't like about the monitor is the contrast ratio. I saw some monitors out on display at Best Buy, and the 500:1 seemed very... bad. I am looking for a 1000:1, which was beautiful, yet expensive at Best Buy. I am hoping that buying online would be cheaper.


Can I have 2GB of DDR2 RAM, and when DDR3 comes out add another GB of that? Or do they all have to be the same?



500:1 is not "bad". My Dell's are 600:1 and they look absolutely perfect. You have to remember that when you look at a monitor in the store, the lighting is completely different than in your home. You don't have overhead florescent(sp) lighting at home.

And no to your last question there. When DDR3 comes out it will be different than DDR2, just like DDR2 is different from DDR1. You can't plan ahead with having something that is always going to be upgradable like that. No matter what, your computer will always be replaced by better hardware.

[Full_Throttle]

Right. Now I just need to figure out which case to pick. Is the one I chose in the first post any good for upgrading, or should I go with a larger one?

[Vinny]

You can't have the latest technology for long so don't worry about quad cores or any of that crap.

I think you're fine with the CPU choice but that mobo is overkill. It was really made for enthuisiats who overclock and stuff. You'd be better off with a $150 mobo that supports SLI so you're ready for that second card.

Memory: any DDR2 800 memory from a reliable company should be fine. OCZ, Corsair, Kingston are all good companies. You don't need to worry about lower latencies unless you plan to overclock or if you're really anal about having those 4-5 extra FPS in a game that you want to pay the extra $50.

Power Supply: I know you're probably set on having something high end either now or in the future but high end GPUs usually require massive amounts of amps. Just because you have 750 watts doesn't mean that you have enough amps nor does it mean you're getting 750 watts. Usually companies use the maximum wattage rating over the sustained rating for the PSes. You need to make sure your buying a PS from a good PS manufacturer (Fortron Source, Seasonic, Antec, Enermax, OCZ, Sparkle Power, or PC Power & Cooling) and not a crappy one (Aspire/Apevia, AeroCool, Kingwind, Raidmax, and tons more).

As for the monitor, I recommend a Viewsonic VX2025WM. Kinda expensive compared to what you're looking at but it's a good monitor for the price and has a native widescreen resolution.

And before you buy anything, always try to read reviews from professional sites. A lot of sites get their units directly from the manufacturers, be weary of those sites.

[Full_Throttle]

Memory: any DDR2 800 memory from a reliable company should be fine. OCZ, Corsair, Kingston are all good companies. You don't need to worry about lower latencies unless you plan to overclock or if you're really anal about having those 4-5 extra FPS in a game that you want to pay the extra $50.

Power Supply: I know you're probably set on having something high end either now or in the future but high end GPUs usually require massive amounts of amps. Just because you have 750 watts doesn't mean that you have enough amps nor does it mean you're getting 750 watts. Usually companies use the maximum wattage rating over the sustained rating for the PSes. You need to make sure your buying a PS from a good PS manufacturer (Fortron Source, Seasonic, Antec, Enermax, OCZ, Sparkle Power, or PC Power & Cooling) and not a crappy one (Aspire/Apevia, AeroCool, Kingwind, Raidmax, and tons more).


Alright, I was planning to get an OCZ DDR800 off of ZipZoomFly (DDR makes me think of the PS2 game...).

About the mobo, I'm not sure if this one would be any good, since Gigabyte doesn't exactly have the best reputation: http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=322342. It seems to me that it does not have as many "upgradeable areas" as the ASUS http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=247085. ASUS is the only one I could find with 2 PCIx16 slots, which I supposed I would need for two graphics card. How do I find out if it is SLi ready?

I still have no idea what to do about a power supply. I was thinking that I could just add together the amount of watts needed from all of the parts and go a little bit over, and that would be the amount of power needed. I see that it's not that easy. Could someone help me with the supply?

TO DO:
-Power Supply
-Wait for Conroe to become cheaper
-Get the rest of the parts!

Thanks again to all of you!

PS
A lot of sites get their units directly from the manufacturers, be weary of those sites.
What exactly do you mean by "be wary"? Skip over them completely or just know that they may be stretching the truth?

[Vinny]

There's a lot of crap in this post so I've split it up a little.

Memory: Before buying your memory, do some research on the motherboard. A lot of motherboards actually won't work with certain types of memory. I found out that my mobo doesn't like OCZ memory so I went with Corsair. You can usually find out before hand if you see a lot of user reviews complaining about a certain type of memory being incompatible with their mobos.

Motherboards: The reason you're not seeing any SLI ready mobos or many mobos with 2 PCIe slots is because Intel doesn't have anyone making any multiple GPU chipsets for them. ATI was making one but they were recently purchased by AMD and Intel did not renew their chipset licence. That leaves only Nvidia to make their Nforce chipset ready for Intel mobos but Nvidia is still working on it. Since you're waiting for price drops (or more like price normalization) anyway, it wouldn't hurt to wait on the mobo. At the moment I don't believe there are any SLI ready mobos for the Core 2 Duo. That P5W may have 2 PCIe slots but it's not certified SLI ready by Nvidia so who knows how well it'll work.

That Gigabyte motherboard is actually a really solid mobo. I was going to get that for my Core 2 Duo build before I scrapped the idea.

Some Power Supply info: You have the right idea for the watts. For example, my system only needs about 430 watts now and it'll need about 570 watts when I upgrade to a high end GPU (once they become cheaper). So I readyed myself with a 600 watt sustained power PS (700 watt max). The PS will only output what's needed. Right now, since my system is only needing 430 watts, the PS will only deliver 430 watts. If my system needs more/less, the system will comply with the demands.

As for the advertised power used by manufacturers, there are two types: sustained and maximum. Sustained power means that that's the amount of power the PS can continually output without any problems. The maximum power rating means the most the PS can put out if there is demand for it but it doesn't mean the system can maintain outputting that much power for very long. Most crappy manufacturers (usually the PSes that look pretty or have fancy lighting- the good PS manufacturers use some lighting on their PS as well but not as many) report the maximum power attained rather than the sustained power.

Each PS will have Output ratings for their rails. There are three types of rails: +3.3V, +5V, and +12V. Your +12V rail is the one you should be looking at.

Let's take a look at this OCZ GameXStream 700 watt PS right now.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817341002

It's arguably the best bang for the buck in the high end PS. You'll see that the unit has 4 +12V rails (most units have one or two and more doesn't necessarily mean better). You'll see that each of the +12V rails are rated at 18A. That doesn't mean you have 18A x4 total amps on the +12V rail because amps don't add up. Usually you can add up the total available amps and take off a couple from each one to get the total amps. I'd say 60A is a safe number for this unit.

Say a unit only has two +12V rails, each rated at 20A. Then it's likely that the total amps for the +12V rail is 35A. And for a single +12V rail, you have whatever they say since there's nothing to add up.

My PS recommendation:For the PS, I say you get what you need for now. There's no way of saying what kind of power DX10 cards will require and there have been rumors of them needing 1000+ watt PSes. I say you get a good 550 watt PS for now with at least 28A on the +12V rail (as EVGA states for their 7950GX2) and you should be set for you system and one 7950GX2. If you do get a second one in a few years as you've said, PSes will no doubt become even better by then.

Reviews:When I say be wary, I mean that the manufacturer might have sent the website a 'better' unit than the ones available at retail. If a review seems a bit too glowing, then go read some other reviews. TomsHardware and Anandtech are some good sites and usually buy retail items to review from what I've seen.

For shopping: I know Newegg doesn't always have the best prices but their customer service is unbeatable. Most of the time you can return something if you don't like it within 30 days without any penalty. And they have no restocking fee. It's not much but for my first build (that I just finished) I found it nice knowing that in case something didn't work or didn't work as advertised, I could always exchange it at Newegg.

[Full_Throttle]

Alright. The only thing in there that doesn't really make sense to me is about the power supply. I am going to go with a 256mb graphics card until the DX10s come out, so I am thinking I would go with 2 +12V rails, rated at 18A? I am just going to get a 7950GX2 (or equivalent) around April 2008, when the DX10s are nothing really new. Until then, a nice 2GB RAM and 256mb Radeon card will do the trick for me. I still have no idea how to figure which power supply I need.

[Vinny]

Most good PSes have a total of at least 26A on the +12V rail, which is plenty of most mid-rage cards and some of the entry high end cars. If your GPU costs less than $300, you shouldn't need more than 26A total so a PS with two +12V rails rated at 18A would be great. It's always nice to have a bit more than necessary when it comes to power.

And for the love of god, please don't get a GPU with shared memory.:-P Get a cards that's at least 256bits and 256MB of dedicated memory. Memory is usually the least important factor in a GPU; core clock, memory clock, and pixel pipelines are the most important things. TH has a good read-up on GPUs if you're interested.

This is part 3: http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/08/08/graphics_beginners_3/

Part 1 is kinda of a intro to the basics and part 2 has some good info (both linked inside the part 3 article) but part 3 covers the more important stuff.

[Full_Throttle]

Well, I was thinking of getting a shared card, since they seem to be 2/3 of what they advertise (ie it says 256 - 128 shared 128 dedicated - so it's really only about 180), and it seems to have a good rating, and is quite a bit cheaper. Seems to me that a shared memory is a nice temporary card. If you reeeeeally think it's a bad idea, I'll go with a $90 256mb GeForce 7400 or a Radeon something. Wow, can't believe I almost completely know how to make my computer!


1) Which operating system should I get? I want something nice for gaming and entertainment, but then again I will also use it for school work. Will Vista be kind of like that (XP Media + XP Pro)?

2) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16829102188 vs http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16829102178 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16829102178?)Which one is better?

3) I am going to buy two 5" DVD/CD combo drives, and I have five 5.25" external drive bays in the Thermaltake SHARK case. Will I still be able to fit in the 5" drives?

4) What to I need for a LAN connection, and what do I need for bluetooth?

5) How/what do I connect the USB2.0 drives to?

Thanks in advance.

[Vinny]

Well, if you really think a shared GPU is fine then it's up to you. I wouldn't recommend it and I doubt anyone would. Sure you can handle newer games in lower settings but where's the fun in that?:)

1. XP Pro is fine for everything. Media Center is basically XP Pro but uses more system resources and makes all your media files easier to access. Unless you're a complete idiot when it comes to what you have on your computer, I'd avoid it. It does let you connect your PC to a Xbox 360 though...

2. One leads to a sound card and the other leads to a bunch of sound cards. But the X-Fi Xtreme Music is a great card.

3. There is no such thing as a 5" drive, they're either 3.5" or 5.25" so you're fine.

4. Most mobos come with a built in ethernet for LAN/internet. If you want wireless internet, then you'll need to buy a wi-fi card. As for Bluetooth, I really don't know...

5. Your mobo should have some USB2 ports, usually 2-4 in the back with the I/O (that area where you can connect a P/S2 mouse, keyboard, etc.). Your mobo will also have more USB2 connections inside which you can connect to external devices if you need them. Basically they're used to wire USB ports outside, i.e., if your case has front USB ports you'll use the USB2 connections from the mobo to the USB2 ports on your case.

[tehweezner]

haven't read the thread in full, but if you're sticking to that original list i'd get a seagate hard drive and a radeon x1900xt.

the 7950 is a tad overkill in my opinion, the radeon should last until dx10 cards come out.

[Full_Throttle]

haven't read the thread in full, but if you're sticking to that original list i'd get a seagate hard drive and a radeon x1900xt.

the 7950 is a tad overkill in my opinion, the radeon should last until dx10 cards come out.
Nah, no way am I getting that. I'm getting a "temp" card, a simple $94 256mb X800 (or something like that) Radeon card. And I'm getting a Barracuda, 320GB, 7200RPM, $94. Two of them. I'll get a third one when I can afford a 10K RPM.

1) Last questions. How do I know how many hard drives my mobo supports, or is the amount not dependent on the mobo? My case has 5 internal 3.5" bays, so that means I could put in 5 hard drives. How do I know how many my mobo has (if it matters)?

2) If possible, should I get OEM from Newegg, since it's cheaper? It doens't have any problems?

[Furashu]

Nah, no way am I getting that. I'm getting a "temp" card, a simple $94 256mb X800 (or something like that) Radeon card. And I'm getting a Barracuda, 320GB, 7200RPM, $94. Two of them. I'll get a third one when I can afford a 10K RPM.

1) Last questions. How do I know how many hard drives my mobo supports, or is the amount not dependent on the mobo? My case has 5 internal 3.5" bays, so that means I could put in 5 hard drives. How do I know how many my mobo has (if it matters)?

2) If possible, should I get OEM from Newegg, since it's cheaper? It doens't have any problems?

OEM just means its from tne manufacturer theres no problems it just comes w/out the cables or something but its perfectly new!
well on newegg, it tells u this for ur mobo and how many drives it supports donno bout ZZF
"Storage Devices PATA 2 x ATA100 up to 4 Devices PATA RAID NV RAID 0/1/0+1 JBOD SATA 3Gb/s 4 SATA RAID NV RAID 0/1/0+1/5 JBOD"


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130020

get that video card for 10 dollars more u get a way better card!
lol thats what im going for anyway...
check out my specs on my thread on page 3 i made final changes
and the total w/out the graphics card is only $417 im gonna use the onboard video till i get more money for a graphics card =)

[Vinny]

You'll know how many HDs you can support by either PATA (also known as IDE) or SATA ports. Each PATA can support up to two devices but it's not a good idea to have two things on one PATA these days as things move at much faster transfer speeds. The HDs you're getting are SATAs (I'm assuming they're the Seagate 7200.10 series, which is a fantastic HD). See how many SATAs your mobo can halde.

OEM just means its from tne manufacturer theres no problems it just comes w/out the cables or something but its perfectly new!
well on newegg, it tells u this for ur mobo and how many drives it supports donno bout ZZF
"Storage Devices PATA 2 x ATA100 up to 4 Devices PATA RAID NV RAID 0/1/0+1 JBOD SATA 3Gb/s 4 SATA RAID NV RAID 0/1/0+1/5 JBOD"


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130020

get that video card for 10 dollars more u get a way better card!
lol thats what im going for anyway...
check out my specs on my thread on page 3 i made final changes
and the total w/out the graphics card is only $417 im gonna use the onboard video till i get more money for a graphics card =)

:rofl:No, that card is not better than the PowerColor X800GTO.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductCompare.asp?SubCategory=48&CompareItemList=N82E16814131007%2CN82E16814130020

It might have SM3 and an extra feature or two but that's pointless since this is a temp card and no games really use SM3 yet. That X800GTO has a fatter memory bandwidth and faster memory clock, it'll own that 7600GS in nearly every game today.

[spoo]

You'll know how many HDs you can support by either PATA (also known as IDE) or SATA ports. Each PATA can support up to two devices but it's not a good idea to have two things on one PATA these days as things move at much faster transfer speeds. The HDs you're getting are SATAs (I'm assuming they're the Seagate 7200.10 series, which is a fantastic HD). See how many SATAs your mobo can halde.



:rofl:No, that card is not better than the PowerColor X800GTO.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductCompare.asp?SubCategory=48&CompareItemList=N82E16814131007%2CN82E16814130020

It might have SM3 and an extra feature or two but that's pointless since this is a temp card and no games really use SM3 yet. That X800GTO has a fatter memory bandwidth and faster memory clock, it'll own that 7600GS in nearly every game today.


I also bought that card a month or so ago. You can't beat that x800gto for the price. I read an article before I bought the card compairing the x800gto vs the 7600GS and if irc the 7600GS only beat out the x800gto in one game, Age of Empires III. By the time SM3 gets used more it will be time to buy a DX10 card.

I also have a Samsung SpinPoint SATA 250 HDD and it is the real deal lots of speed for the $.

OP you should do some more research before building your new PC. Your build isn't very balanced. For a few hundred dollars less you can build a PC that would be more balanced and only loose marginal specs.

[Furashu]

I also bought that card a month or so ago. You can't beat that x800gto for the price. I read an article before I bought the card compairing the x800gto vs the 7600GS and if irc the 7600GS only beat out the x800gto in one game, Age of Empires III. By the time SM3 gets used more it will be time to buy a DX10 card.

I also have a Samsung SpinPoint SATA 250 HDD and it is the real deal lots of speed for the $.

OP you should do some more research before building your new PC. Your build isn't very balanced. For a few hundred dollars less you can build a PC that would be more balanced and only loose marginal specs.


lol oic well just a suggestion i just got into PC hardware last week do u know of any GPUS that are 130$/$150 and under and will be a permanent card that u could reccomend me?:lol:

[CaseyRyback]

there is no permanent card since DX 10 is coming out next year. Last week or early this week someone over at SD posted the x850xt for 90 AR and if you want a card that will last a good while, that would be the one to get (the price went up last I looked, but could drop again).

[Vinny]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102688

That's it, I think. $90 AR... damn good price. 16 pipes instead of 12, 520 clock vs 400, and 1080 memory vs 980! It's a win-win situation!

I think I'll just order it and return my X800GTO. Thanks Casey!!:)

[CaseyRyback]

Yea that is it. There was another one on sale for the same price with games, but it is OOS.

[Furashu]

there is no permanent card since DX 10 is coming out next year. Last week or early this week someone over at SD posted the x850xt for 90 AR and if you want a card that will last a good while, that would be the one to get (the price went up last I looked, but could drop again).

oic yeah im aware of DX10 but what kind of slot will those new DX10 cards use? also how do i know if my mobo and cpu are VISTA readY? or compatabile:)

[CaseyRyback]

I would be shocked if they used something other than PCI-e x 16.

[Full_Throttle]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that PCI-E16x is (and will be) the norm for all video cards, at least until D-X11, because by then we'll have Intel "Wonton" Core 8 Duo processors, which will need majorass mobo upgrades from what we have now.

[Vinny]

Too bad I don't get any games with it... but hell, more performance for the same price can't be beat.:D

Actually, PCIe isn't the best. There have been some tests that show AGP beating out PCIe when using similar cards (except one being AGP and the other being PCIe). But that was only for mid-range tests, PCIe kills AGP in the higher ends since AGP just doesn't have the transfer speeds.

I think PCIe has at least two more years before we see something new.

[Full_Throttle]

I found a good setup, but I feel as if I'd still pay too much. Around $1400 with shipping and other stuff.

Case: ... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811133143 ... $169.00
Hard Drive: ... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148140 ... $94.99
RAM: ... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820146438 ... $99.99
Sound Card: ... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16829102003 ... $27.99
Video Card: ... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814131007 ... $89.99
Processor: ... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819115003 ... $360.00
Monitor: ... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824014105 ... $289.99
Speakers: ... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16836121126 ... $53.99
Motherboard: ... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131032 ... $109.99


What could I cut down on and still have a kickass computer (relative to the overpriced medium Dell XPS)?

[spoo]

$160 for a case without a PSU... OUCH!

Edit: IMO I would get the Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 and with the $130 you save buy the 2nd stick of 1GB RAM and some good cooling.

[Vinny]

That case is overkill... but if you really want it, get it from ZZF.
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=371216

Their prices usually suck but for cases they're great.. they almost always have free shipping too.

You might wanna consider this one too, it's probably just as good.
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=371252

Don't get speakers online, get them from a store or find a place with free shipping. Speakers should be your last consideration.

That sound card isn't that great... stick with on board for a bit and upgrade when you get the money.

If you're only going to get 1GB of memory, get 2x 512MB sticks so you can run dual channel. The only reason I'd get a 1x 1GB stick is if I was going to get another stick later on.

For the video card, you can... try this card once it comes back in stock.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102688

It's a fantastic card and the price. I actually had that PowerColor you listed but upgraded to this one after I found it. The problem is that the rebate is VERY complicated (and I've sent plenty of rebates before)... I don't think I'll get it but the performance boost was incredible (saw an average of 50% boost in all games and in 3DMark 05 & 06 scores). For $120 (what I paid), I'm very happy except for the fact that I got a bad card which is taking forever to RMA.

Everything else looks good.:)

[Full_Throttle]

If you're only going to get 1GB of memory, get 2x 512MB sticks so you can run dual channel. The only reason I'd get a 1x 1GB stick is if I was going to get another stick later on.


Yes, I'm going to get another 1GB stick later on when I will be able to buy it. And with the processor that Spoo suggested, will th e computer still be as good? I mean, I know that 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo is quite a bit, but I'm thinking that later on as the computer ages, it will be able to support it better (I've had a history of computers crapping up because the processor slows down or someting).

[Vinny]

I'd actually advise against more memory now... due to C2D, the prices have skyrocketed. I got my 2x 1GB Corsair XMS2 for $198 (total). Now, those same sticks cost $268... and yes, I got the same rebate they're offering now.

As for the processor, it's hard to call. The E6600 is a freakin' beast but the E6400 is no sissy.

Use TH's comparative charts to get a better idea of the difference and see if the extra performance is worth the money to you.
http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html

But honestly, I'd go for the E6300 (yes, E6300) and just get two matched 1GB sticks (if you buy them individually, they might end up being a bit different). Then, when it does seem a bit slow, you can OC it meet E6400 specs. 2GB of memory should last for a long while (unless Vista is more memory hungry than expected).