Muslims possibly facing extra checks when traveling

[schuerm26]

Opinions?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2313135,00.html

[xeverex18]

They are the greatest risk. So you want to be safe or not?

[HumanSnatcher]

Honestly, they have their own people to thank for the extra problems.

[schuerm26]

I 100% agree, just didn't want to be the first to post. If they are the one's causing harm, then it only makes sense to increase the security on them.

It also scares me that non-terrorist Muslims aren't standing up for their religion and taking it back. Makes you wonder about it.

Though i don't see how this will happen with all the PC nutjobs (ie liberals) here in the States.

[elprincipe]

Honestly, they have their own people to thank for the extra problems.

Yeah! And if the police harass blacks more than other groups, they have OJ Simpson to thank! So there! :roll:

[bmulligan]

Yeah! And if the police harass blacks more than other groups, they have OJ Simpson to thank! So there! :roll:


Ahem....OJ was aquitted. Perhaps you should have named somebody like Rodney King.

[CocheseUGA]

Holy shit I never saw that one coming. Never.

[Quackzilla]

Yeah, and those fucking $$$$ers. They have those dumbfuck slaves who resisted to thank for their reputation.

[Kaijufan]

Racial profiling may not be politically correct, but it really is the right thing to do when the vast majority of terrorists are Muslims.

[schuerm26]

Racial profiling may not be politically correct, but it really is the right thing to do when the vast majority of terrorists are Muslims.

Exactly. It is in the countries best interests to do it. Though it will cause a S**tstorm among the democrats. That is why i don't see it ever happening here. We have to many idiotic special interest groups in this country who call racism or unfair treatment at the drop of a dime. Nevermind the fact that pretty much all terrorists are muslim.

Don't get me wrong though, we desperately need this. Our govt. is not taking this seriously enough. Urging Isreal to sign the cease fire was a HUGE mistake also.

[mykevermin]

I 100% agree, just didn't want to be the first to post.

Didn't want to expose the old racism until other responses gave you the go-ahead, eh?

At any rate, if this makes you think that by focusing on the most probable group, we will be completely safe from further attacks, you're fooling yourself. The only surefire method of protection is 100% screening of all passengers, and developing technology that can screen for fluids in nonconventional containers; just because you can't take a bottle of Gatorade on the plane doesn't mean that you can't put the same kind of substance in the soles of your shoes.

I'm sorry that you're looking for psychological comfort instead of actual methods of securely protecting airplanes and passengers from being victimized. The problem with ANY random sampling of passengers is this: since 9/11, this is the first finding of a planned terrorist attack on airlines. 24 arrested thus far, and surely there are others remaining. Considering just how many people fly each day, 24 out of the millions who have flown since 9/11 is not something that can be found by random sample. It's just statistically improbable, and there's no way, and no reason, to defend anything but 100% thorough screening of all passengers. Think that's inconvenient? Well, dying is a considerable degree more inconvenient than that.

[Moxio]

You mean those "random inspections" I go through are based on my race?!?!

[Ikohn4ever]

It also scares me that non-terrorist Muslims aren't standing up for their religion and taking it back. Makes you wonder about it.

Though i don't see how this will happen with all the PC nutjobs (ie liberals) here in the States.


First off, who should "non-terrorist" Muslims stand up to. Especially the US ones, they are dealing with the terrorists threats like everyone else hear, plus they have morons who are their fellow citizens stare at them for wearing their religous clothing and the color of their skin. Thats like someone judging you in real life for idiotic posts. I dont see Christians standing up to the nut jobs that shoot abortion doctors, protest soldier funerals, or bomb oklahoma city, but Muslims should do this of course.


also when you attack liberals you just make yourself look dumb (ie you), our freedoms or even just one groups' are not worth giving up for any false sense of safety.

[RedvsBlue]

Didn't want to expose the old racism until other responses gave you the go-ahead, eh?

At any rate, if this makes you think that by focusing on the most probable group, we will be completely safe from further attacks, you're fooling yourself. The only surefire method of protection is 100% screening of all passengers, and developing technology that can screen for fluids in nonconventional containers; just because you can't take a bottle of Gatorade on the plane doesn't mean that you can't put the same kind of substance in the soles of your shoes.

I'm sorry that you're looking for psychological comfort instead of actual methods of securely protecting airplanes and passengers from being victimized. The problem with ANY random sampling of passengers is this: since 9/11, this is the first finding of a planned terrorist attack on airlines. 24 arrested thus far, and surely there are others remaining. Considering just how many people fly each day, 24 out of the millions who have flown since 9/11 is not something that can be found by random sample. It's just statistically improbable, and there's no way, and no reason, to defend anything but 100% thorough screening of all passengers. Think that's inconvenient? Well, dying is a considerable degree more inconvenient than that.

Might have to start cavity searches as well...

[schuerm26]

Didn't want to expose the old racism until other responses gave you the go-ahead, eh?

At any rate, if this makes you think that by focusing on the most probable group, we will be completely safe from further attacks, you're fooling yourself. The only surefire method of protection is 100% screening of all passengers, and developing technology that can screen for fluids in nonconventional containers; just because you can't take a bottle of Gatorade on the plane doesn't mean that you can't put the same kind of substance in the soles of your shoes.

I'm sorry that you're looking for psychological comfort instead of actual methods of securely protecting airplanes and passengers from being victimized. The problem with ANY random sampling of passengers is this: since 9/11, this is the first finding of a planned terrorist attack on airlines. 24 arrested thus far, and surely there are others remaining. Considering just how many people fly each day, 24 out of the millions who have flown since 9/11 is not something that can be found by random sample. It's just statistically improbable, and there's no way, and no reason, to defend anything but 100% thorough screening of all passengers. Think that's inconvenient? Well, dying is a considerable degree more inconvenient than that.

First off, It isn't racism at all. It's seeing it for what it is. The terrorist are muslims. Don't call racism when it isn't there.

Obviously it isn't going to make us 100% safe. Nothing will. It obviously makes us safer by a large margin. You can never get rid of terrorism. There are steps to help make us safer. This would be one of them.

WHO SHOULD NON-TERRORIST MUSLIMS STAND UP TO? Are you joking? The one's that are high-jacking there supposedly peaceful religion.

[Mr Unoriginal]

I truly hope that the next terrorist action is done by a middle aged white male.

[schuerm26]

Well all signs point to it not. That's pretty much what you have to go by.

[mykevermin]

First off, It isn't racism at all. It's seeing it for what it is. The terrorist are muslims. Don't call racism when it isn't there.

Obviously it isn't going to make us 100% safe. Nothing will. It obviously makes us safer by a large margin. You can never get rid of terrorism. There are steps to help make us safer. This would be one of them.

Why did you ignore my post about searching everybody to the same degree? Do you understand that 24 terrorists out of the millions who have flown since 9/11 is a statistical improbability to find using only random searches?

Will searching muslims make us safer? Well, sure, compared to not searching them more in-depth. You know what would make us safer than that? Searching everybody equally. Can you entertain the notion that the next terrorist attack could come from someone who isn't muslim, or ethnically doesn't look like it? Would you like to be the one who is wrong about such a selective method of screening passengers?

Really, I don't think you want to harm muslims, though I still think you're a racist. Don't give me that "intent" bullshit, because plenty of people are plenty racist without having any intent whatsoever; you seem to admit as much in hiding your own opinions until others agreed with you.

You can support racial profiling all you want, but you cannot deny that screening all passengers will make us exponentially more safe than a random/biased sample of a few. That's all there is to it. If you think terrorists are idiots, who won't try to seduce non-muslim looking folk into doing things such as this, who's really fooling who?

[Cheese]

How do you pick out the Muslims? Dave Chapelle's a muslim. Most of Indonesia, many in India, many in eastern Europe, the Philippines and Africa. So you don't mean muslims, let's be clear, you mean brown people. Now, when Bali gets bombed, do you think it's an arab or an asian? Does that mean we check all asians? What about secular Iraqis? Christian Iranians? Turkish Kurds? The London bombers were British, should we search all Brits? Or just the brown ones? Tim McVeigh was Irish, the IRA were terrorists, will we start strip searching Mc's?

Look past your nose.

[Metal Boss]

How do you pick out the Muslims? Dave Chapelle's a muslim. Most of Indonesia, many in India, many in eastern Europe, the Philippines and Africa. So you don't mean muslims, let's be clear, you mean brown people. Now, when Bali gets bombed, do you think it's an arab or an asian? Does that mean we check all asians? What about secular Iraqis? Christian Iranians? Turkish Kurds? The London bombers were British, should we search all Brits? Or just the brown ones? Tim McVeigh was Irish, the IRA were terrorists, will we start strip searching Mc's?

Look past your nose.


Exactly.

PS: the level of ignorance in this thread astounds me.

[E-Z-B]

I love you Cheese. :)

[PKRipp3r]

doy!

[dopa345]

Why did you ignore my post about searching everybody to the same degree? Do you understand that 24 terrorists out of the millions who have flown since 9/11 is a statistical improbability to find using only random searches?

Will searching muslims make us safer? Well, sure, compared to not searching them more in-depth. You know what would make us safer than that? Searching everybody equally. Can you entertain the notion that the next terrorist attack could come from someone who isn't muslim, or ethnically doesn't look like it? Would you like to be the one who is wrong about such a selective method of screening passengers?

Really, I don't think you want to harm muslims, though I still think you're a racist. Don't give me that "intent" bullshit, because plenty of people are plenty racist without having any intent whatsoever; you seem to admit as much in hiding your own opinions until others agreed with you.

You can support racial profiling all you want, but you cannot deny that screening all passengers will make us exponentially more safe than a random/biased sample of a few. That's all there is to it. If you think terrorists are idiots, who won't try to seduce non-muslim looking folk into doing things such as this, who's really fooling who?

You make a good point that doing in-depth searches of everyone is the safest way to go but that's not feasible. And as you said, doing random searches is virtually useless in terms of significantly increased likelihood of picking up a terrorist out of millions of air travellers. But if you have limited resources and time available, doesn't it make the most sense to focus your attention on a profile that is objectively the most likely fit for a terror suspect?

[E-Z-B]

But as stated, how would you know who's a muslim? Are you able to tell the difference between Indians and Pakistanis? Indonesians and Filipinos? Mike Tyson and Evander Holyfield? (Tyson is muslim, by the way).

[Chacrana]

Well, Muslim is pretty broad. If they narrowed it down to muslims of middle eastern descent, then they'd have a pretty good group to monitor. I'm not going to pretend like I'm unbiased or that I give a damn about fairness -- they're the ones behind the acts of terrorism so this is the only way. Yeah, I realize not all muslims are terrorists -- I get it -- but you don't see a white/black/asian or Christian/Jew/Athiest doing this shit. If that makes me a racist, then I guess that maybe I am.

[Cheese]

Well, Muslim is pretty broad. If they narrowed it down to muslims of middle eastern descent, then they'd have a pretty good group to monitor. I'm not going to pretend like I'm unbiased or that I give a damn about fairness -- they're the ones behind the acts of terrorism so this is the only way. Yeah, I realize not all muslims are terrorists -- I get it -- but you don't see a white/black/asian or Christian/Jew/Athiest doing this shit. If that makes me a racist, then I guess that maybe I am.

1) How would you know they are muslim? It doesn't say so on their passport and I know I wouldn't tell a cop my religion, it's none of his business.

2) You're talking about blaming 2 billion people for the actions of a few thousand. That'd be like searching all white folks, world wide, because some might be in the Aryan Nation.

You will never be safe, you never have been, you never will be. But that's life. No reason to sit at home worrying about it. I just saw Tom Ridge on Hardball, when asked if metal detectors, strip searches, shoe searches had ever caught a bad guy he said, under his breath, "um.. not to my knowledge." So searching people doesn't make you safer anyways.

And you do see asians, whites, christians, etc. doing this shit. In Bali, Dublin, Oklahoma City. People are batshit all over.

[PKRipp3r]

1)

You will never be safe, you never have been, you never will be. But that's life. .

this really sums it up nicely i think

the world is divided into two groups

those who believe they are 'safe' and listen to those in power who tell them they will be protected

and those who understand what you wrote above is the truth

the people who need to be made 'safe' by politicians and figures in authority are those ripe for being swayed by popular/public opinion

[schuerm26]

1) How would you know they are muslim? It doesn't say so on their passport and I know I wouldn't tell a cop my religion, it's none of his business.

You will never be safe, you never have been, you never will be. But that's life. No reason to sit at home worrying about it. I just saw Tom Ridge on Hardball, when asked if metal detectors, strip searches, shoe searches had ever caught a bad guy he said, under his breath, "um.. not to my knowledge." So searching people doesn't make you safer anyways.

And you do see asians, whites, christians, etc. doing this shit. In Bali, Dublin, Oklahoma City. People are batshit all over.

You can bring up as much of this junk as you want but the fact remains their needs to be profiling. No we will never be 100% safe. There are steps to be taken to make us safer though.

Click the link
http://www.danzfamily.com/pictures/pictures02/hijackers.jpg

I don't think any more needs to be said on profiling.

This whole topic is about screening at AIRPORTS!! Not sure why everyone is bringing up other stuff. Yes other stuff can happen but so far the only people trying to blow up planes are of middle eastern descent. Yes profiling will work.

[Kayden]

Ladies and gents, I give you lower class America at its finest!

Are you also that asshole starting all those emails saying how we should teach prayer in school because our money says "In God We Trust"?

You can't blame him folks. He can't help being stupid. Just like Muslims can't stop being terrorists and blacks can't help being violent. :roll:

First off, It isn't racism at all. It's seeing it for what it is. The terrorist are muslims. Don't call racism when it isn't there.

Obviously it isn't going to make us 100% safe. Nothing will. It obviously makes us safer by a large margin. You can never get rid of terrorism. There are steps to help make us safer. This would be one of them.

WHO SHOULD NON-TERRORIST MUSLIMS STAND UP TO? Are you joking? The one's that are high-jacking there supposedly peaceful religion.

[elprincipe]

1) How would you know they are muslim? It doesn't say so on their passport and I know I wouldn't tell a cop my religion, it's none of his business.

2) You're talking about blaming 2 billion people for the actions of a few thousand. That'd be like searching all white folks, world wide, because some might be in the Aryan Nation.

You will never be safe, you never have been, you never will be. But that's life. No reason to sit at home worrying about it. I just saw Tom Ridge on Hardball, when asked if metal detectors, strip searches, shoe searches had ever caught a bad guy he said, under his breath, "um.. not to my knowledge." So searching people doesn't make you safer anyways.

And you do see asians, whites, christians, etc. doing this shit. In Bali, Dublin, Oklahoma City. People are batshit all over.

I often disagree with you, but your posts have been outstanding in this thread.

I think everyone should take a step back and ask themselves if we want to be like France or other European nations, with large disenfranchised and discriminated-against Muslim populations, or if we want to welcome them the same way we have with other immigrant groups. Most Muslims are not terrorists, just like most whites aren't members of the KKK and most blacks are not members of the Black Panthers. Singling people out like that is not a good idea and can only lead to (1) anger and (2) lawsuits.

[mythass]

I often disagree with you, but your posts have been outstanding in this thread.

I think everyone should take a step back and ask themselves if we want to be like France or other European nations, with large disenfranchised and discriminated-against Muslim populations, or if we want to welcome them the same way we have with other immigrant groups. Most Muslims are not terrorists, just like most whites aren't members of the KKK and most blacks are not members of the Black Panthers. Singling people out like that is not a good idea and can only lead to (1) anger and (2) lawsuits.

yeah ur right...

[Cheese]

http://www.danzfamily.com/pictures/pictures02/hijackers.jpg

Alright, look at them. Which one has the words, "I AM A TERRORIST" written across their head. I don't know how old you are, but do you know about the internment camps during WW2? We imprisoned thousands of innocent japanese because they 'might' be collaborators. It's one of the most shameful things the US has done in the 20th century. It's reactionary and short sighted, much like what you are advocating. Blaming an entire group of people for the actions of a few is very near the most unAmerican thing you can do. White folks have caused more death and destruction through out history then any other race, creed, etc. If anything, they shouldn't let us on planes.

[schuerm26]

http://www.danzfamily.com/pictures/pictures02/hijackers.jpg

Alright, look at them. Which one has the words, "I AM A TERRORIST" written across their head. I don't know how old you are, but do you know about the internment camps during WW2? We imprisoned thousands of innocent japanese because they 'might' be collaborators. It's one of the most shameful things the US has done in the 20th century. It's reactionary and short sighted, much like what you are advocating. Blaming an entire group of people for the actions of a few is very near the most unAmerican thing you can do. White folks have caused more death and destruction through out history then any other race, creed, etc. If anything, they shouldn't let us on planes.

Your points are ridiculous. Of course they don't say I AM A TERRORIST! If they did what the hell would we need secruity measures at the airport for? Step off your liberal high horse for right now and look at the picture. Why should we be searching white people or black people to the same degree we search middle easterns? Nobody is saying imprison middle easterns once they step in to the airport just because they might be a terrorist. They are advocating extra precaution as they are the one's wanting to blow up the airplanes. Of course it is reactionary as we weren't prepared for it on Sep. 11, it is also proactive so it doesn't happen again.

Good post from another message board:
we are all profiled all the time. When I was younger, I was subjected to higher auto insurance premiums becuase I was between 16-25 and male, as profiled by insurance agencies.

This isn't racism, this is called using information and knowledge gained from previous experience.

ANother good post from another message board:
Airport security officers aren't 'hassling' people just to get their jollies or whatever, they are doing more intensive searches of people who are seen as most likely, by security experts, to attempt a hijacking/explosion/whatever. Or at least that's what's happening in other countries, and SHOULD be happening in the US, but isn't. Instead, our airport security has resorted to 'random searches' whereby an 85 year old grandmother has just as much likelihood to be searched as a group of young Arab men, possibly even a greater chance if the security is bending over backwards to appear 'fair'. This is simply insane. The day that the IRA, KKK, ETA, Black Panthers (notice how Tater never brought them up) or whatever other radical non-Muslim group hijacks or blows up a plane, then we should start searching them in airports too. Until that happens, however, it's not 'racist' to focus extra attention on people who fit the profile of those people who both successfully and unsuccessfully set about hijacking/blowing up airplanes. If we start putting political correctness and/or people's feelings above the safety of the masses is the day we put everyone in jeopardy.

On another note, profiling, racial or otherwise, is not inherently wrong or illegal. Assuming that all black people or all Muslims or whatever are criminals, and rounding them up in internment camps is both wrong and illegal, but if 3 young black men rob a liqour store, the police shouldn't be looking in retirement homes for the criminals, or locking up white women, they should be looking for people who fit the description of the criminals. In the same way, this is at least the second attempt that young Muslim men have made to hijack airplanes, not to mention the mulitude of other terrorist attacks that that 'profile' of person is responsible for. No one is seriously advocating locking every young Muslim man up, but giving them a closer inspection when they are passing through a security station is only being pragmatic

yet another:
even Bill Mahr said that until a tall blond woman tries to commit an act of terrorism in the USA, he has no problem saying why SHOULDN'T we treat arab/muslim/middle-eastern people differently? It's no different than the police sending out an APB.

I am not saying they get hassled, or that you or I get to breeze through security unchecked, ok? I am just saying that until we have a change in the pattern of terrorists, it is a waste to treat an 80 year old retiree from florida exactly as a 24 year old arab exchange student.

[mykevermin]

I am not saying they get hassled, or that you or I get to breeze through security unchecked, ok? I am just saying that until we have a change in the pattern of terrorists, it is a waste to treat an 80 year old retiree from florida exactly as a 24 year old arab exchange student.

So...you're basically admitting that you aren't concerned about 100% protection (or as near as we can realistically come to that) from terrorist attacks. Your message is to tell terrorists that they need to change their methods to this degree (and with cosmetic surgery and identity theft, appearances mean shit these days) in order to get around security. You're ADMITTING to wanting to leave a hole in security measures, and TELLING people what that hole is - if you look like Whitey McWhiterson, then you won't be scrutinized.

And here I thought it was the left who was supposed to be weak on terrorism...

EDIT: The short version is this: if you think that terrorists, be they all muslim or otherwise, will not try to hide their appearance or disguise their appearance in order to avoid this kind of profiling, you're just plain wrong. Don't forget for a single moment that they are very savvy people, warped ideals or no.

[schuerm26]

Im done talking about this. You guys on the left miss the forest for the trees on pretty much every single issue. This one especially.

[mykevermin]

Im done talking about this. You guys on the left miss the forest for the trees on pretty much every single issue. This one especially.

Don't forget that other issue you brought up and were promptly put in your place over! We're still waiting for secret spy photographs of Obama filling up with unleaded.

[schuerm26]

Yeah you guys really put me in my place on this one.

[Mookyjooky]

I'm gonna be the asshole racist one here I guess.

I dont believe in attacking all people of one race, for the crime of a few - but if it was White people being the Terrorists, everyone else would freak out around white people. Not to mention, most minorities would be like "Good, F*ck'em".

Maybe you guys didnt grow up like I did, but most white people who sympatize with other racial hardships are usually the most blind to whats really going on.

If it were a list of white people getting checked 8 times through metal detectors... most minorities wouldnt give a shit.

I grew up poor as F*ck, white boy/black neighborhood. I went to a school 82% minority, that was on MLK street. I got beat up every F*cking day for being white, my friend had his ears cut off while walking down the street, for being white. I've been robbed, kicked in the temples with steel toe boots, been a F*cking ashtray and been hit with a hammer.

Tell me minorities arent F*cking racist, and I'll show you the scars.

That being said, I dont feel sorry for them getting checked extra at the airport... its not like they're getting forced to have barcodes tattooed on them or anything. The Arab people (Who lived in america) - killed thousands of people in one of the most horrific events of our generation. They should be so lucky they live in the US right now, cause in any other country there would be hundreds being shot in the streets.

My point being, this is very minimal.. not even worth discussing and for our (Meaning everyone, not just white peoples) protection. If would of been much, much worse anywhere else. Do you think white people are being treated kind in the middle east? Do you think that the most americans have to worry about is minor inconviences there?

America is a country just like all the rest, and we have the right to protect ourselves. Its not a race thing, or a genocide thing... its a stop F*cking killing innocent civilians thing.

[PKRipp3r]

if it was White people being the Terrorists, everyone else would freak out around white people. Not to mention, most minorities would be like "Good, F*ck'em".



prove it

(hint: you can't b/c you are talking out of your ass)

thanks for playing!

p.s. if you really believe that it must SUCK to be you

sad

[Brak]

prove it

(hint: you can't b/c you are talking out of your ass)

thanks for playing!

p.s. if you really believe that it must SUCK to be you

sad
Are you 16?

P.S. Are you 16?

[Mookyjooky]

prove it

(hint: you can't b/c you are talking out of your ass)

thanks for playing!

p.s. if you really believe that it must SUCK to be you

sad

LOL, you even live in LA, one of the most fucked up racist places to live. Awesome. If you've never seen a minority not care about a white person, then you need to get out more.

All I'm getting at, is that we're all racist in some way or another, but we dont have to slam white people everytime something of this magnitude happens. I'm white, I've never owned a slave, so I owe them nothing. But I've been robbed a few times by black people, so I feel akward showing most black people I dont know my things. I dont have an undying hate for their race, I just dont want my shit stolen.

Same rules apply for extra checks at airplanes. Arabs fly jumbo jets into buildings, and I'm racist for wondering if Arab people should get checked a little extra in airports? I dont have hate for their race, I know nothing about their culture, so I dont hate that either. But I dont want to be taking a flat spin into the sears tower either.

It's only racist when white people do it, but heres the thing... there is more than white people in power now.

[Cheese]

So you advocate being suspect of 2,000,000,000 people because of the actions of 19. There was also that white kid that flew his cessna into a building in Florida, or the guy that few his into the White House, or the one in paris. There's three 'plane into building' events done by white guys. Start strip searching them all. A white guy blew up a building in your home town, should we stop all white guys and search them, just in case?

[mykevermin]

So you advocate being suspect of 2,000,000,000 people because of the actions of 19. There was also that white kid that flew his cessna into a building in Florida, or the guy that few his into the White House, or the one in paris. There's three 'plane into building' events done by white guys. Start strip searching them all. A white guy blew up a building in your home town, should we stop all white guys and search them, just in case?

Dude, that's only three people - there were NINETEEN Muslims. Jesus, don't you know *anything*?

[DeathDealer]

How do you pick out the Muslims? Dave Chapelle's a muslim. Most of Indonesia, many in India, many in eastern Europe, the Philippines and Africa. So you don't mean muslims, let's be clear, you mean brown people. Now, when Bali gets bombed, do you think it's an arab or an asian? Does that mean we check all asians? What about secular Iraqis? Christian Iranians? Turkish Kurds? The London bombers were British, should we search all Brits? Or just the brown ones? Tim McVeigh was Irish, the IRA were terrorists, will we start strip searching Mc's?

Look past your nose.

Theres a difference in a terrorist and a suicide bomber. big difference. im sure you will try to make me look racist/unamerican or something for going against your opinion but fuck man come on. most of those groups arent gonna get on a plane and blow themselves up. muslims, different story. thats like the most holy thing they can do or some shit. Searching everyone is totally a damn good idea but im not gonna question at all why they would choose muslims over everyone else. Still do random, but more caution with the muslims for sure. it makes sense, look at the past.

and schuerm I totally understand your not wanting to post first about agreeing with the topic. alot of times I choose not to post because I know people are gonna tear apart what I say and use way too much sarcasm. It has something to do with their insecurities I think.

[Mookyjooky]

So you advocate being suspect of 2,000,000,000 people because of the actions of 19. There was also that white kid that flew his cessna into a building in Florida, or the guy that few his into the White House, or the one in paris. There's three 'plane into building' events done by white guys. Start strip searching them all. A white guy blew up a building in your home town, should we stop all white guys and search them, just in case?

But none of those "White Guys" caused this.

Sept. 11 Numbers:

Total number killed in attacks (official figure as of 9/5/02): 2,819

Number of firefighters and paramedics killed: 343

Number of NYPD officers: 23

Number of Port Authority police officers: 37

Number of WTC companies that lost people: 60

Number of employees who died in Tower One: 1,402

Number of employees who died in Tower Two: 614

Number of employees lost at Cantor Fitzgerald: 658

Number of U.S. troops killed in Operation Enduring Freedom: 22

Number of nations whose citizens were killed in attacks: 115

Ratio of men to women who died: 3:1

Age of the greatest number who died: between 35 and 39

Bodies found "intact": 289

Body parts found: 19,858

Number of families who got no remains: 1,717

Estimated units of blood donated to the New York Blood Center:
36,000

Total units of donated blood actually used: 258

Number of people who lost a spouse or partner in the attacks:
1,609

Estimated number of children who lost a parent: 3,051

Percentage of Americans who knew someone hurt or killed in the
attacks: 20

FDNY retirements, January–July 2001: 274

FDNY retirements, January–July 2002: 661

Number of firefighters on leave for respiratory problems by
January 2002: 300

Number of funerals attended by Rudy Giuliani in 2001: 200

Number of FDNY vehicles destroyed: 98

Tons of debris removed from site: 1,506,124

Days fires continued to burn after the attack: 99

Jobs lost in New York owing to the attacks: 146,100

Days the New York Stock Exchange was closed: 6

Point drop in the Dow Jones industrial average when the NYSE
reopened: 684.81

Days after 9/11 that the U.S. began bombing Afghanistan: 26

Total number of hate crimes reported to the Council on American-
Islamic Relations nationwide since 9/11: 1,714

Economic loss to New York in month following the attacks: $105
billion

Estimated cost of cleanup: $600 million

Total FEMA money spent on the emergency: $970 million

Estimated amount donated to 9/11 charities: $1.4 billion

Estimated amount of insurance paid worldwide related to 9/11:
$40.2 billion

Estimated amount of money needed to overhaul lower-Manhattan
subways: $7.5 billion

Amount of money recently granted by U.S. government to
overhaul lower-Manhattan subways: $4.55 billion

Estimated amount of money raised for funds dedicated to NYPD
and FDNY families: $500 million

Percentage of total charity money raised going to FDNY and NYPD
families: 25

Average benefit already received by each FDNY and NYPD widow:
$1 million

Percentage increase in law-school applications from 2001 to 2002:
17.9

Percentage increase in Peace Corps applications from 2001 to
2002: 40

Percentage increase in CIA applications from 2001 to 2002: 50

Number of songs Clear Channel Radio considered "inappropriate"
to play after 9/11: 150

Number of mentions of 9/11 at the Oscars: 26

Apartments in lower Manhattan eligible for asbestos cleanup:
30,000

Number of apartments whose residents have requested cleanup
and testing: 4,110

Number of Americans who changed their 2001 holiday-travel plans
from plane to train or car: 1.4 million

Estimated number of New Yorkers suffering from post-traumatic-
stress disorder as a result of 9/11: 422,000

------------------------------------------------------

You cant save everyone, you cant search everyone. I'm sure that some Government official would love to put chips and barcodes all over us and make us wear clear clothes and ban all liquids but water... but its not feasible for a country of our size.

As well as searches. It takes 2 hours to get though the airport as is, It would take 4-5 if we searched everyone.

Its more than about safety, its about money. If half the planes are up in the sky because security checks take half the time... then Airports make half the money. And half the money doesnt keep those planes in the sky.

It costs Billions to retool every airport in the US with more security staff and metal detectors... and technology that hasnt even been invented yet that mykevermin seems to think we need to be fair.

But in the end, we have to make due with what we have. Business isnt exactly booming for the plane industry, and the Govt. only regulates it so much, and people dont want a 10% tax increase to fund it anyways.

Its cheap, its safer, and we can do it with what we have now without delay of business. Its not polically correct... but there is more at stake than being PC.

[schuerm26]

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1231352,00.html

Yet another Middle Easterner. Let's just ignore it though. Why profile. It could come from anyone.

[mykevermin]

But in the end, we have to make due with what we have. Business isnt exactly booming for the plane industry, and the Govt. only regulates it so much, and people dont want a 10% tax increase to fund it anyways.

So, instead of ensuring greater protections for all travellers, let's focus on the camel jockeys because Americans are whining about how *inconvenient* it is to get searched. It takes a righteous prat to say something like that - how many airline dollars is the difference between making sure your ass - or mine - is safe, and them not giving a fuck?

You know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that one day, a terrorist strike will happen, and the perpetrators are gonna have names like "James" or "Nick," and they're not gonna look like the sand $$$$ers you all seem to think that the scrutinization of is the difference between safety and imminent doom. You're going to be wrong about focusing solely on brown folks, and how much damage, how many deaths, how many bland statistics will you list in a message board posts when that happens? It *will* happen, of that I can assure you.

Never forget: they are smarter than you, pal. You may like to think they're sheep, and pathological - but there's no denying their savvy, unless you want to willfully ignore the immense amount of planning that goes into an attack. I don't feel like dying because it makes you feel comfortable to focus solely on visibly identifiable characteristics that form the boundary between "us" and "them"; it's intellectually simplistic, halfhearted effort to make you feel comfortable without accomplishing anything, and it makes, quite public, precisely what kind of criteria one must have in order to avoid such scrutiny. And if you think that a terrorist won't try to falsify those things that will circumvent such scrutiny, then I regret that you have the right to vote and choose out national leaders.

EDIT: You guys are the kind of motherfuckers that would get fooled time and time again by a running back faking right and then cutting left.

[schuerm26]

NOBODY IS SAYING ONLY FOCUS ON MIDDLE EASTERNERS!!!! Other people are still going to be searched. It's not like they get a free pass on to a plane. At this point in time Middle Easterners need to be the ones really focused on in depth searches. That doesn't mean everyone else walks on without any checks or nobody who is white gets really checked out. Come on now. You are smarter than that.

You might say they are smarter than us (i 100% disagree) but ill say GW and Tony Blair (among countless others) have done one hell of a job so far protecting us from another one, though something is bound to eventually happen. I guess in your mind they don't deserve any credit.

At this point it seems you are posting just to be disagreeable, or you just have a complete lack of common sense.

[trq]

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1231352,00.html

Yet another Middle Easterner. Let's just ignore it though. Why profile. It could come from anyone.

No, how ’bout we ignore it until the FBI actually decides something happened, rather than "possibly, maybe, we're investigating."

On a connected note: http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/ny-usking0817,0,4047199.story?coll=ny-top-headlines

EDIT: spelling

[trq]

NOBODY IS SAYING ONLY FOCUS ON MIDDLE EASTERNERS!!!! Other people are still going to be searched. It's not like they get a free pass on to a plane. At this point in time Middle Easterners need to be the ones really focused on in depth searches. That doesn't mean everyone else walks on without any checks or nobody who is white gets really checked out. Come on now. You are smarter than that.

So ... why wouldn't we be searching everybody to the utmost, exactly? Why not search EVERYONE like you're suggesting we target the muslims? Sure, it'll take resources, but shit: we fought two wars so we could be safe from terra. We can't devote a fraction of that to keep us from getting blowed up right here?

You might say they are smarter than us (i 100% disagree) but ill say GW and Tony Blair (among countless others) have done one hell of a job so far protecting us from another one, though something is bound to eventually happen. I guess in your mind they don't deserve any credit.

He might say that. He didn't ... but I guess he might. And what the hell does that have to do with anything, anyway?

[schuerm26]

He did to say it. Read his post.

[mykevermin]

NOBODY IS SAYING ONLY FOCUS ON MIDDLE EASTERNERS!!!! Other people are still going to be searched. It's not like they get a free pass on to a plane. At this point in time Middle Easterners need to be the ones really focused on in depth searches. That doesn't mean everyone else walks on without any checks or nobody who is white gets really checked out. Come on now. You are smarter than that.

Yes, yes I am. And you're deliberately misreading me, or a fool to think that I'm somehow insinuating that nobody will go through standard TSA screening. Your posts seem to indicate that you're perfectly content with any and all protection measures above and beyond TSA protocol, if they focus solely on "middle easterners" (which, I assure you, is a far more amorphous concept than you'd like to think). So don't try this strawman nonsense with me. My point is that one day a terrorist will either not be your Limbaughian "Islamo-fascist," or will be one who learned to play by the rules and "pass as white" sufficient to avoid the scrutiny that you laud as exemplary. I'm not being disagreeable for the sake of it - I'm pointing out that you are praising a plan that is shortsighted, intellectually spells out precisely what would-be terrorists need to do to circumvent it, and plays on racial/ethnic stereotypes of people who are strictly not "us" based on little more than physical appearance. You're a fool to believe that different kinds of people, including terrorists, are always and always will be discernible by vision alone.

You might say they are smarter than us (i 100% disagree) but ill say GW and Tony Blair (among countless others) have done one hell of a job so far protecting us from another one, though something is bound to eventually happen. I guess in your mind they don't deserve any credit.

Well, for the few rules they have followed in monitoring groups, they did apprehend (well, the Brits anyway) 24 potential terrorists last week who were planning to fly on the very morning I was flying out of the country last week, so something is going according to plan. They deserve credit for that; of course, for all the things they deserve a slap in the face for, that would be bare minimum three more threads - misdirecting the war against al-qaeda into a nation where they never were to begin with, and subsequently causing a civil war by bringing down their totalitarian government via preemptive war to prevent further terror attacks is a technique along the lines of going to North Dakota to help Hurricane Katrina victims.

At this point it seems you are posting just to be disagreeable, or you just have a complete lack of common sense.

You're the one who thinks that our government (who you inherently distrust as a right-winger, right?) will always and consistently remain one step ahead of the terrorists, and who is so simple-minded as to buy into some bullshit argument that they aren't smart (as if a pack of trained monkeys could have pulled off 9/11 in much the same way they wrote the entire works of Shakespeare). Somehow, you refuse to humanize the enemy as capable of surprising you and your nation, despite evidence to the contrary (for a not-very-concise-and-often-redundant list, consult Mookyjooky's thread on this very page), and yet *I'm* the one who lacks common sense? Because I perceive terrorists as people who are willing to adapt to the protective environment created in the United States, I lack common sense? Let me tell you something, shecky, if terrorists were as dumb as you want to think they are, they would have tried to walk through TSA with shanks again, just like they did on 9/11. Guess what? They tried to disguise Gatorade bottles as explosives, because they *GASP* reacted to their environment! Amazing! If you don't think they'll do it again, that's your right to remain naive; after all, you're the one denying the empirical reality of last week's planned attacks by thinking that terrorists won't change their methods based upon new security measures. :roll:

Besides, I thought you were done with this thread - something about you not being able to see the forest because of all the brown people you were monitoring.

[trq]

He did to say it. Read his post.

I did. He said they were smarter than YOU. Not us.

[Mookyjooky]

So, instead of ensuring greater protections for all travellers, let's focus on the camel jockeys because Americans are whining about how *inconvenient* it is to get searched. It takes a righteous prat to say something like that - how many airline dollars is the difference between making sure your ass - or mine - is safe, and them not giving a fuck?

You know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that one day, a terrorist strike will happen, and the perpetrators are gonna have names like "James" or "Nick," and they're not gonna look like the sand $$$$ers you all seem to think that the scrutinization of is the difference between safety and imminent doom. You're going to be wrong about focusing solely on brown folks, and how much damage, how many deaths, how many bland statistics will you list in a message board posts when that happens? It *will* happen, of that I can assure you.

Never forget: they are smarter than you, pal. You may like to think they're sheep, and pathological - but there's no denying their savvy, unless you want to willfully ignore the immense amount of planning that goes into an attack. I don't feel like dying because it makes you feel comfortable to focus solely on visibly identifiable characteristics that form the boundary between "us" and "them"; it's intellectually simplistic, halfhearted effort to make you feel comfortable without accomplishing anything, and it makes, quite public, precisely what kind of criteria one must have in order to avoid such scrutiny. And if you think that a terrorist won't try to falsify those things that will circumvent such scrutiny, then I regret that you have the right to vote and choose out national leaders.

EDIT: You guys are the kind of motherfuckers that would get fooled time and time again by a running back faking right and then cutting left.

Whats funny, is that we're racist, yet you've said Sand $$$$ers and Brown People in most of your posts. Way to go the extreme.

If you would of read my post, you would see that money is a big issue here and that in a perfect world... we could spend the Billions of dollars to do what you think is right for the sake of PC...but in a perfect world, we wouldnt even have to deal with this...

Hell, why not just ban all air travel altogether? That way we dont have to make Arabs feel bad. If it took 5 hours to get through security, no one would probably go anyways unless it was required.

The airline industry is falling in the toilet, and you're proposing a Billion dollar expenditure to make Airlines more secure.

How about this? Its a private business, and if you dont like it, you dont have to buy it?

mykevermin, stop being a whiny douche who just wants to be right about everything on the internet. If all you can see is racism and political correctness of black and white, right and wrongs... then that would be a reason your not running for office.

If the majority of people feel safer at the expense of a few, then that a decision that has to be made sometimes. Its not always right and wrong, and just because they're getting checked doesnt mean we're racist. In the end, this is probably nothing more than a publicity stunt to get people flying again.

Life sucks, and too bad we dont have a limitless amount of money and time to devote to perfecting the nation. I swear dude, you're like a communist.

[schuerm26]

I did. He said they were smarter than YOU. Not us.

Wow, that hurts. Typical lib stuff. Think illogically and when people call you out and prove to be correct call them names. Great stuff. That's why you guys don't and won't run the country for a long time. You can't run on your ideas because they are absolutely absurd.

[mykevermin]

The word, Mooky, is *hyperbole*.

Anyway, you've done an outstanding job, in the absence of any evidence whatsoever (financial or logistics, for starters) in declaring better planning that scrutinizes all air passengers. It just doesn't sound logically feasible to you, and somehow your gut feeling about it is a perfectly acceptable substitue for actual data telling me otherwise.

Now, as for air travel being a private business, you're right. TSA, on ther other hand, is yours and my tax dollars, baby. That's a gub'ment organization, separate from Delta and United. Perhaps I'm proposing a billion dollar measure, but if it's only a billion, that's 0.000011% of our national debt. A billion dollars is only 6 days of Iraq War expenditures; in comparison, that ain't much for some widespread comfort and certainty that we aren't letting terrorists on board.

I'm very disappointed in those of you who insist on attacking me, and continue to consciously ignore the damn-near certainty that eventually a terrorist will not look like what you think they ought to look like, and that yours and my eyesight vision of what a terrorist "looks like" is not a sound method for employing protection measures. Someone step up to the g'damn plate!

Yes, yes...ad hominems...overgeneralizing accusations...more baseless attacks...got that out of the way. Alright, lovely. You really like to lay in on me, for whatever reason. Ain't no thing by me. If'n that's how you get your kicks, go right ahead and bring those internet criticisms on down. I can take it.

I'm sorry that you feel the need to respond to my points with accusations about my character, and your gut feelings as evidence refuting a more streamlined and still more thorough measure of screening. Perhaps you would be better off in the OTT?

EDIT: Schuer, the hell did you ever call me out on successfully?

[Cheese]

But none of those "White Guys" caused this.


Yeah, I kinda remember about that, almost as if I were there... But I also remember that blaming an entire culture for the actions of a few radicals is abhorrent, not to mention logistically difficult.

Oh, and a FBI spokesman said the 'explosive' liquids in Schuerm's link were alcohol based face creams. Damn those middle easterners and their evil Oil of Olay!

[Cheese]

Wow, that hurts. Typical lib stuff. Think illogically and when people call you out and prove to be correct call them names. Great stuff. That's why you guys don't and won't run the country for a long time. You can't run on your ideas because they are absolutely absurd.


Odd, what you call 'liberals' ran congress and the white house for about 40 years. Funny how civil liberties used to be a republican owned issue, back when there were liberal republicans.

[trq]

...Think illogically...

Whu? Seriously? SERIOUSLY?

I take it you didn't read that link I posted, from that last bastion of liberal reporting, the Daily News. You know, the one where one of our foremost experts on counter-terrorism, former NYPD commish Ray Kelly called profling "nuts" and "inneffective," or where those dirty liberals at the Cato Institute said profiling has fallen out of favor with law enforcement, not because of "political correctness," but because it just doesn't work. You know. That link.

I also notice you had nothing to say when I asked why we wouldn't be searching everybody to the utmost, just to be safe. Just jumped right to "he did to [sic] say that." So you're not exactly Mr. Spock with the logic here. That's fine.

Let's rock it like this:

If I were head of a terrorist cell, I'd be looking for as many non-stereotypes to pull off my attacks as possible. There are 20 million chinese muslims. A third of formerly-Yugoslavia is muslim. There's Jose Padilla, and John Walker Lindh, and the jamaicans in London. Those are all people who would be less scrutinized with your plan. Maybe we'd still catch them. Maybe not. Why take the chance? We have the money. Again, WHY TAKE THE CHANCE?

So go for it, Captain Logic: what's the rebuttal?

[Liquid 2]

most of those groups arent gonna get on a plane and blow themselves up. muslims, different story. thats like the most holy thing they can do or some shit.why don't you go and, you know, LEARN about what Islam is all about before making idiotic statements like that?



Cheese and Mykevermin, I just want to give you both a huge THANK YOU for your posts in this thread. I'm an American-Muslim and I can't believe some of blatantly racist and ignorant comments that can come out of people's mouth. It's nice that there are still people out there who actually think. Again, thanks.

[DeathDealer]

Im no expert but I believe I know what jihad means. Im sure you could probably find something so show me a link to something about a suicide bomber who wasnt muslim or some middle eastern decent.

[schuerm26]

why don't you go and, you know, LEARN about what Islam is all about before making idiotic statements like that?



Cheese and Mykevermin, I just want to give you both a huge THANK YOU for your posts in this thread. I'm an American-Muslim and I can't believe some of blatantly racist and ignorant comments that can come out of people's mouth. It's nice that there are still people out there who actually think. Again, thanks.

It's not racism at all. Until someone can prove (or we find out through intelligence) a non middle eastern muslim is trying to blow up our planes, they should be the ones targeted. You are the one that isn't thinking.

[gaelan]

israel has been racially profiling for years at their airports, and they are considered the safest in the world. of course you have to get there 5 hours in advanced in case they opt for the full body cavity search, but hey at least its safe.

[Cheese]

israel has been racially profiling for years at their airports, and they are considered the safest in the world. of course you have to get there 5 hours in advanced in case they opt for the full body cavity search, but hey at least its safe.

How many of our ideals are you willing to sell down the river out of fear? I'd like to hear you say, "Hey, at least we're safe!" when you've got some TSA employee with his finger up your daughter's vagina. You three talk as if every plane already has one suicide bomber on it. Just how scared are you? Now, I am aware St. Louis, Plano and wherever gaelan's from are hot terrorist targets, but you'll just have to suffer through. Seeing that (as I quoted earlier) DHS Secretary Tom Ridge says airport searches have never caught anyone, it stands to reason that what ever they've been doing has been good enough so far without having to violate anyone's civil liberties.

Oh, and the first report of a plot to use planes as missiles was in 1995, called 'Oplan Bojinka' was put together by Ramsi Youseff who was operating out of the Philippines and was to use Filipino muslims. On a side note, the Columbine kids were also plotting to hijack a plane and fly it into Times Square long before 9/11.

[evanft]

Ya ever notice how schuerm26 is a bit of an asswipe?

[schuerm26]

Your a genius when it comes to knowledgable posts, makes me feel good you are on the other side. Thanks evan.

All i can say is thank god people who think like you guys aren't in power nor will be for a long time.

[DeathDealer]

On a side note, the Columbine kids were also plotting to hijack a plane and fly it into Times Square long before 9/11.

Big difference in plotting and doing though. Personally I have no fear of a terrorist attack. I dont live in a place that would probably be the victim of an attack. you cant ignore the fact that almost all succesful terrorist attacks and suicide bombings are done by muslim/middle eastern people. thats not racism, thats fact my friend.
My reason for posting in this thread was just to say that I would agree to more strict searching of people who follow a religion that has a history of suicide bombings and other terrorist attacks against the US. Sure searching everyone would be that much better, but you cant honestly think that stricter searching of muslim/middle eastern people is a bad idea. sure its unfair, I agree and I wouldnt like it myself. But if we are at war with a country we have to at least be cautious of people from that country. Its alot better than refusing the flight. People do have the option of not flying as someone previously stated.

[Kayden]

Big difference in plotting and doing though. Personally I have no fear of a terrorist attack. I dont live in a place that would probably be the victim of an attack. you cant ignore the fact that almost all succesful terrorist attacks and suicide bombings are done by muslim/middle eastern people. thats not racism, thats fact my friend.

You also can't deny that almost all annoying intarnets posts are made by ignorant/overweight/redneck/14yo (circle all applicable) lower middle class rejects that lack the cognative ability to process the fact that even 20,000 in 1 billion is minute and all but untraceable fringe element.

Maybe ISPs should submit ignorant honkies to full cavity searches before giving them access to the internet.

[Cheese]

Big difference in plotting and doing though. Personally I have no fear of a terrorist attack. I dont live in a place that would probably be the victim of an attack.

But that was the charge against the guys this thread was started about. They weren't caught in the act, they were plotting. Same with the guys in FLorida a few months back. They were arrested for plotting. Which I have no problem with, although the evidence in both cases seems sketchy, but hey, I'll give the authorities the benefit of the doubt.

you cant ignore the fact that almost all succesful terrorist attacks and suicide bombings are done by muslim/middle eastern people. thats not racism, thats fact my friend.
My reason for posting in this thread was just to say that I would agree to more strict searching of people who follow a religion that has a history of suicide bombings and other terrorist attacks against the US. Sure searching everyone would be that much better, but you cant honestly think that stricter searching of muslim/middle eastern people is a bad idea. sure its unfair, I agree and I wouldnt like it myself. But if we are at war with a country we have to at least be cautious of people from that country. Its alot better than refusing the flight. People do have the option of not flying as someone previously stated.

You're sorta touching on my beef when you agree that it's unfair. My complaint comes from the idea that we're supposed to believe that all men are created equal, no matter their race, color or creed. With that belief comes a certain responsibility to each other that we stick to it, because there but the grace of god go I. Holding an entire culture in suspicion because of the actions of a few goes against that higher ideal. Equality trumps security. Security is important, for sure, but a free and equal society is more important. To put aside those ideals for a brief and ultimately false sense of security chips away at what fundamentally makes us who we are, or at least who we should strive to be.

[DeathDealer]

Cheese I give you respect for responding with decent well thought arguments, but kayden you sir are a fool. you are trying to criticize me for making a generalization yet look what you are saying based solely on the fact that I am from Texas. You brought ignorant childish name calling to an otherwise good thread discussion. No one here was being a disrespectful ass. Sorry I dont agree with whatever you feel on this topic, but I wouldnt criticize you for disagreeing.

[Kayden]

Cheese I give you respect for responding with decent well thought arguments, but kayden you sir are a fool. you are trying to criticize me for making a generalization yet look what you are saying based solely on the fact that I am from Texas. You brought ignorant childish name calling to an otherwise good thread discussion. No one here was being a disrespectful ass. Sorry I dont agree with whatever you feel on this topic, but I wouldnt criticize you for disagreeing.
:lol: I didn't even notice you were from Texas. I was making a generalization that mocked yours. That was my only "goal". Honestly, "That, my friend, is fact." You're using the fact that a handful of Muslims attempted a terrorist attack to justify the subjugation of an entire religion with about 1 billion followers. However, it affects even more than that seeing how middle eastern and muslim are not the same.

There are white muslims that support the terroristic acts--even in nothing-hapens-here midwest! There was a group of soccer moms collecting cellphones to ship to terrorist cells. They were actually encouraging their kids to steal them from school.

On the flipside, there are middleeasterners that aren't Muslim. Add your logic of "it just makes sense because .00002% of the group did it" to the fact that a large majority couldn't tell the difference between a Pakastani and an Iranian and we get hundreds of thousands --if not millions -of people detained soley on the basis that they have brown skin and a beard.

Or did you have a plan where you'd fill in a check box if you were Muslim? "Check here for theological profiling!" :roll:

No sir, the childish ignorance was already here.

[schuerm26]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=401419&in_page_id=1770

Thoughts?

[mykevermin]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=401419&in_page_id=1770

Thoughts?

Fuck you. I want YOUR thoughts first. Don't go fishing for other people to okay your racism first. Have some dignity and tell us what you think about it.

You damn well know what I think: you'd have done the same thing if it was a plane full of people like you, and therefore establishing two tiers of citizens hierarchically arranged. Once you advocate the subjugation of another group of people for any reason (the most loathesome of reasons being ascribed characteristics), you're living a life contrary to the notion of "freedom" you claim to want to protect.

[evanft]

I would have kicked off everyone BUT the two asian dudes just to be an asshole.

[schuerm26]

Fuck you. I want YOUR thoughts first. Don't go fishing for other people to okay your racism first. Have some dignity and tell us what you think about it.



My thoughts are this:

You need anger management, a shot of common sense and a crash course in logic.

[elprincipe]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=401419&in_page_id=1770

Thoughts?

Two thoughts occur to me:

1. The people on that plane must not have any confidence in the airport security. I sympathize with this line of thinking.

2. Some people are very nervous about terrorism, nervous enough to act irrationally in this case.

[Cheese]

Cheese I give you respect for responding with decent well thought arguments, but kayden you sir are a fool. you are trying to criticize me for making a generalization yet look what you are saying based solely on the fact that I am from Texas. You brought ignorant childish name calling to an otherwise good thread discussion. No one here was being a disrespectful ass. Sorry I dont agree with whatever you feel on this topic, but I wouldnt criticize you for disagreeing.

I made no judgment or conclusion about you based on your being from Texas, I simply pointed out that Plano and St. Louis might not exactly be on the top of the terrorist hit list, meaning dollars to donuts you'll never have to experience or witness some of the things I sadly have, and perhaps some of your fears are overblown. There was no insult intended.

[DeathDealer]

I know that cheese, thats why I was saying that even though you disagree I respect that you can have an arguement without trying to insult. like this other guy.
and for you kayden, im not the one who came up with the idea for the whole muslim search, I only say I wouldnt be standing around protesting it. I dont know that it would work, or how they would even do it for that matter. As Ive said about 4 times now, I would prefer that they search everyone the same and thorough. But if they want to start with these people I dont think its a bad idea. I know that all middle eastern people or muslims arent terrorists. In fact a small number, but that small number is the number of attempted attacks airports have had lately. Its just taking caution based on past events. When they catch a skinhead (or anyone else) with some sort of bomb, and a thread starts with the same topic only skinheads instead of muslim, I will be saying the same thing.

[mykevermin]

My thoughts are this:

You need anger management, a shot of common sense and a crash course in logic.

You have a tendency to use sweeping statements like these (e.g., "you need logic," or "you liberals all _____") when you've nothing to add to the conversation, or when you find yourself incapable of responding to a substantive comment.

That's well and fine, but "you lack logic" is a useless comment. Point out where my flaws in logic are, if you're so astute as to see them. Why do I ask this? Because I don't believe you can see past your own nose, that's why.

I have noticed that you haven't posted your own reaction to the link you posted yet. That's well and good, and I understand. I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that we won't get an opinion out of you until sometime between 12-3PM on Monday. ;)

[Ikohn4ever]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=401419&in_page_id=1770

Thoughts?


I think these people are chicken shit cowards. They threw two innocent men off a plane and they should be ashamed. Nothing makes me more disgusted than when a majority forces its will on the minority. If I were those two men I would sue the shit out of the airline for discrimination. This isnt the first time British assholes have done shit like this. Using the actions of a minority of a group to discriminate against the majority of them is prejudice in its most basic form. Actions like these only increase intolerance and errode the trust even further.

[evanft]

I like it when people post things that make absolutely no sense and add nothing to the topic, and then whine when someone insults them for being an idiot, saying THEY'RE the ones not adding to the topic.

[DeathDealer]

Ya ever notice how schuerm26 is a bit of an asswipe?

I would have kicked off everyone BUT the two asian dudes just to be an asshole.


yes, someone like yourself. unless you consider those statements useful to the debate. great post. unlike yourself im not gonna disrespect/name call and think that it somehow supports my arguement. grow up man, maybe this topic is a little too mature for you.

[evanft]

yes, someone like yourself. unless you consider those statements useful to the debate. great post. unlike yourself im not gonna disrespect/name call and think that it somehow supports my arguement. grow up man, maybe this topic is a little too mature for you.

Considering that this thread is essentially schuerm26 making completely ridiculous arguments that have no merit nor any basis in logic, and then myke and everyone else ripping them up, I think I needed to lighten it up a little bit.

[trq]

Big difference in plotting and doing though.

No prob: it's been done, too. One of the London bombers was Jamaican-born.

[AYATOLA]

as a non muslim persian american (w/ dual citizenship) I have no problem with the heightened security. I traveled to Iran in the summer of 02 and did experience many "stops" or "random routine checks", but I completely understand the measures taken and respect the rules and regulations as long as I am not late for my flight.


When I went to the airport and presented our tickets (traveling with family and friends), me and my cousin (young mid-eastern males) were told to hand over both passports (american and Iranian) and we had to go into a separate line. My cousin was mad/embarrassed, but I was proud and full of laughs. It’s not a big deal and even the guys checking my bag and asking

me to remove my belt apologized for having to do it.


after the first check of bags and clothes we stood in line at the gate and were pulled out of line again into another separate "screening room" and rechecked. If it makes people on board feel safer I have no problem going through all of it as long as I am treated with respect (very key). In europe I had german shepherds "search" at me even though I did nothing wrong and was already checked at that stop (fuck-in dutch).another perk of being part of "suspicious nationality" (not saudi) is you get on the plane first.


the highlight of that whole trip was when I was in Tehran and the security guard singled me out and asked me to take off my shoes. I asked why and was told "you're from america, you could be a terrorist". So at least I know I get treated like a terror suspect no matter where I go, making it more of a norm.
The way I view it, I'm a VIP a Very Important Persian. At least that's how I keep my cool about it all.

Oh and real terrorism is having to pay for ketchup fuck-in europeans.

[evanft]

Stopping people due to ethnicity and stopping them due to where they're from or where they're going is, IMO, completely different.

[trq]

Stopping people due to ethnicity and stopping them due to where they're from or where they're going is, IMO, completely different.

Correct.

[mykevermin]

Dude, Limbaugh's been on for SIX hours this week, and yet we've still not heard schuerm's opinion on this!?!?!

Hmm. Something's afoot. Maybe convicted white-collar bribe-taker (and subsequently ex-mayor) Roger Hedgecock, or Milton Friedman and Adam Smith loving, economist to the stars, token right-wing black person Walter Williams are substituting this week, leaving schuerm high and dry.

[Veritas1204]

I don't mean to go off on a rant here, but what did you guys think was going to happen?

Did you think we were just going to let Muslims kills us, with only the smallest amount of help from you in stopping them, forever?

Did you think we would never decide "It is they who are causing the problem. It is they who should bear most of the inconvenience/'humiliation' from the problem"?

Whatthey've been taking as "weakness" and "stupidity" was just a naive, idealistic hope that if we treated them well enough they would stop. They didn't. The naivete and idealism are giving way to cold hard ugly realities forced upon us by non-terroristic muslims' soft support of terorism.

This was taken from a British Newspaper regarding the practice of profiling:
"THE Government is discussing with airport operators plans to introduce a screening system that allows security staff to focus on those passengers who pose the greatest risk. The passenger-profiling technique involves selecting people who are behaving suspiciously, have an unusual travel pattern or, most controversially, have a certain ethnic or religious background. The system would be much more sophisticated than simply picking out young men of Asian appearance. But it would cause outrage in the Muslim community because its members would be far more likely to be selected for extra checks. "

I'm not British, but my reserve of concern for "Muslim outrage" is quite tapped out.

Gone.

Muslim terrorists emptied the tank.

We no longer care so much about living in a tolerate, perfectly-equal multiethnic society.

We now care much more about living. Period.


Muslims (and most of you here) say, "Why should ALL middle eastern Muslims be inconvenienced or humiliated for the excesses of a few?"

And to that, I say, "Why should we be inconvenienced or humiliated for the excesses of Muslims, when they seem to be active or passive supporters of the Muslim terrorists causing all of the problems?"

It's coming to America, too, most likely.

The outrage the oft-referred to "billions of innocent muslims" should have been directed at the terrorists and terrorist-inciters and terrorist-supporters among them five years ago.

But it wasn't.

So now here we are.

How ya like them apples?

Muslims will plead that the incovenience and suspicion for the war on terror should be distributed equally and without regard to religion.

But why should that be so? The entire problem of terrorism is not distributed equally, nor without regard to religion. It is almost exclusively the fault of young Muslim men, in turn sheltered by the greater Muslim community.
Why should the hassle and inconvenience of this be borne by all equally when the likely perpetrators are nearly all young Muslim men, or Muslims generally?

It's a bit glib, but people's willingness to undergo inconvenience and embarrassment on behalf of sparing another person the same inconvenience and embarrassment is quite limited. Especially when that other is more capable of undoing the entire need for the inconvenience and embarrassment altogether, but chooses not to.

So, for all of you who mean to take up the cross that is the percieved indifference to the hordes of innocent muslims who are non-violent and their coming inconvenience at the passing of this new policy, bear in mind that all of your pet innocent muslims see fit to stonewall authorities seeking information on terrorist cells, harbor known terrorists and terror preaching imams in neighborhood mosques, (and the list goes on and on).

For them to on one hand feel empowered to subvert the authority of the government they live under by following the laws of their culture to the detriment of US law (and thousands of US lives), and on the other cry foul against the same government for imposing stricter sanctions on their group as a result of their unwillingness to even pretend like they care about anyone except those who believe like they do only makes their hypocricy shine that much brighter.

In short, while I tend to agree with mykevermin's assertation of the situation, (i.e. screening everyone as opposed to screening one group and then pretending like we are safer), I simply cannot feel sorry for a group of people who as a rule put their fear of not being seen as an outsider for speaking out against the preaching of violence at local mosques or the known harboring or planning of terrorists or terrorist activities above the very lives of everyone around them.

As I said before, we tried cowtowing to their every will, and they only used our capitulation as carte blanche to walk all over us and protect the real killers among them.

Now we are forced to make all Muslims lives so miserable that they may finally understand we will not tolerate their silence and allow them to keep harboring and nursing the jihadists among them while still claiming victim status. Soon they will understand that they either need to help us stop the real terrorists, or be subjected to intense scrutiny and disbelief that they want anything more than to leech off our society while silently rooting for their terrorist brothers to kill us all.

Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[evanft]

I was going to make a very long response to Veritas1204's post, but it's so fucking retarded and baseless that there's no real point to doing so. All the points within have also been addressed by myke already, too. But hey, my ignore list gets a new member!

[Cheese]

Wow, now there's some pure, straight from the tap, USDA prime racism. There are so many illogical conclusions and misconceptions in that screed that I don't even know where to begin, or even if it's worth it, I'm guessing not. I think I'll just let that one lie.

[evanft]

Wow, now there's some pure, straight from the tap, USDA prime racism. There are so many illogical conclusions and misconceptions in that screed that I don't even know where to begin, or even if it's worth it, I'm guessing not. I think I'll just let that one lie.

You changed your avatar! :cry:

[Cheese]

You changed your avatar! :cry:

I did, Richardson has more personality then the big retarded kid.

This was also a runner up...

http://houseoftwelve.com/goof/icons/asianballs.gif

[evanft]

I think someone else already uses that one.

[Kayden]

That was Tanuki's sig for ages.

[evanft]

Ah, I see.

[SilverPaw750]

One half of my family is primarily Muslim, so while I think profiling or this kind of thing is wrong, I can't get myself to say I disagree with it. It's a misconception that all muslims hate america or are terrorists or whatever, statistically, its more likely that a muslim going through is a terrorist than some fat black lady.

Overall, I really can't determine my stance on the issue...

[Veritas1204]

"I was going to make a very long response to Veritas1204's post, but it's so fucking retarded and baseless that there's no real point to doing so. All the points within have also been addressed by myke already, too. But hey, my ignore list gets a new member!"

well, It's nice to see that the intellectual heavyweights can simply write me off as racist and continue their little circle jerk.

and by nice I mean completely f u c k i n g pathetic.

And don't worry about me guys; somehow I will fight through the pain of knowing that I was redlined by someone so childish that they can't even tolerate opinions contrary to theirs.

Just keep telling yourself you are right, evanft.

I mean, why bother actually opening your f u c k i n g ears and respecting someone else's opinion when you can say "I was going to write a worthy response, but I'm afraid I'll look like a fool. Instead, I think I'll spew some ad hominem and pretend like I know what the fuck he was saying."

But again, let me express my heartfelt sorrow for being yet another addition to your "I don't agree with you, so I'll shut my ears and make you magically disappear" club.

Just don't be suprised next time when someone balks at you trying to pass yourself off as open minded, or progressive. (or pro-America)

and to sum my arguement up, I want you all to remember one thing:

the nazis had ignore lists that they put the jews on.

now, back to the circle jerk and deeply informative "dude, cool avatar" exchange

V

[mykevermin]

Y'know, without looking at the other post (right above mine here), Veritas does make some interesting points about people's (in this case liberals') willingness to capitulate and inconvenience themselves for the sake of another person/group (in this case Muslims).

I still hold steadfast that, by visually profiling those people who most closely resemble what we expect "the enemy" to look like, we will leave ourselves vulnerable to attack by making the characteristics for extra screening and less screening quite clear to those people who would harm us.

I'm not going to try to dodge the point that all terrorist attacks in the United States in the past several years (and attempted attacks) have been enacted by people of Muslim descent. Sure, it's an oversimplification of a broad group of people whom, I believe, outnumber Christians globally. It also ignores the immense disgust that Muslim groups have towards each other (Sunnis and Shias, for example), as well as other conflicts not directed at us (Muslims and Hindis in India, for example). It's using a broad, broad, broad brush to paint over a very diverse people; moreover, we're not only doing Muslims a disservice by placing them all under one roof, but ourselves as well, by willfully ignoring the various and sundry groups who might be recognizably causal in orchestrating terrorist attacks.

A comparable example might be attacking/profiling/interning every last Christian because of what Randall Terry and Operation Rescue did at abortion clinics or the homes of physicians who work at clinics, or because of what Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist
Church do.

So, yes, yes, a thousand times yes, these are Muslims who want to attack, and have attacked us. If I feel any guilt in any debate, it's this notion that liberals (including myself) seem to want to avoid such a blatant truism. It certainly is that.

At any rate, to deny that is absurd. However, I still stick by my contention that we must screen everybody. Airport security is still pretty tight, and the new liquid problems may lead to some new methods of screening. However, the fundamental problem is this: the number of would-be terrorists who want to hijack or blow up planes is so small to the number of overall passengers in planes, that nothing short of screening everybody would suffice. Obviously, if there's less than a 1 in 100,000 chance (let me be quite clear that the ratio of terrorists to regular passengers is FAR higher than that, as I'm sure you know), then random searches are an exercise in futility. But another problem is this: so are selected searches (those that focus on a small proportion of the population as a result of profiling). The chance of finding a terrorist boarding a plane is so infinitesimally small that I wouldn't trust anything short of 100% coverage.

Beyond that, of course, is the problem with visual profiling and identification. Since the terrorists adapted to the new security measures put in place after 9/11, they will certainly try to adapt to profiling measures and catch us off guard. Medical technology is certainly capable of making people look "not muslim" enough to avoid scrutiny. It would be dreadful to permit another terrorist attack because we rely so much on visual notions of who could or could not be a terrorist.

Lastly, the notion of capitulation that Veritas brings up an interesting point about inherited privilege in life. I'm a firm believer that there is a great social benefit inscribed with being white (though some may argue that we're heading towards a "black/nonblack" divide, with outsourcing moving towards India and ethnic Muslims as terrorists, we may have avoided such a divide for quite some number of decades). At any rate, to truly live appropriately, in my opinion, one must disarm themselves of such built-in privileges. It's damned hard, if not impossible, since many times we aren't in control of our privilege (e.g., not being followed in a store, or other situations where privilege is defined by something that we *don't* experience, like "driving while black"). I do find that I feel better if I know I've gone out of my way to deny or dampen the impact that my race has on how far I get in life.

It's also nice because, to some very minute degree, I can be certain that my achievements in life are less (though not completely free) the consequence of who I was born as than a conseuqence of who I am.

Of course, "easier said than done" doesn't even begin to describe that, and I'm sure that some people will have a field day deriding my darwinian self-defeat. Those will be, without a doubt, those people whose success in life is constantly doubted by themselves as being the result of their hard work and skills, and more likely the result of race, sex, and wealth privilege. But that's alright, this is just my opinion, so hurl the "bleeding heart" and/or "pinko" epithets my way. That's fine with me. (I'm not necessarily referring to Veritas here).

[Cheese]

Fine Veritas1204, a honest response, sigh...

The first few issues:

As I recall 'religion' is not listed on your passport, an if it were, lying would be kinda easy. How will you tell the muslims from the non-muslims? Many Africans are muslim and some are terrorists (see: Kobar Towers), will you search all them too? Will Dave Chapelle be pulled from a line and strip searched? He fits your profile, he's young, muslim, and dark skinned. How will you discern Iranian Christians from Iranian Muslims? Will you sew yellow crescents on their clothing?

Your idea that all muslims are harboring terrorists is bizarre. If there are say, 20,000 terrorists on the planet, and 2 billion muslims, that's 1 in 100,000. So every muslim would have to know 100,000 people to statistically know one (1) terrorist. So let's say each terrorist knows 10 people that know they are a terrorist. That's still one in 10,000 muslims knows someone, that knows someone, that's a terrorist. Let's even go so nuts as to say that 10 people know one of those 10 who knows someone who knows someone who is a terrorist. That's still 1 in 1,000. And that's just knows them, not even knows them well enough to know their three times removed friends.

Then you spoke of capitulation, what the hell are you talking about? We invaded two of their countries and killed over 100,000 of their people, that's capitulation?

That's just the tip of your paranoid iceberg.

Planes hijacked since 9/11: 0
Planes blown up since 9/11: 0

Whatever you're so scared of doesn't seem to be very successful, and whatever we're doing in airports now seems to be very successful. But you want to go further, you want to:

Now we are forced to make all Muslims lives so miserable that they may finally understand we will not tolerate their silence and allow them to keep harboring and nursing the jihadists among them while still claiming victim status. Soon they will understand that they either need to help us stop the real terrorists, or be subjected to intense scrutiny and disbelief that they want anything more than to leech off our society while silently rooting for their terrorist brothers to kill us all.

There's so much seething fear and hatred in that post that it scares me to think that there are more of you out there. I'm sorry if you didn't know it before, but be sure of it now, you're what the rest of us call a racist. Maybe not a hood wearing clansman or Aryan Nation type, but a racist none the less.

It's not that we don't understand or can't comprehend your reasoning that we disregard you a racist, it's the fact that you're seemingly so scared of brown people that you are willing to infringe on a third of the planets rights to make you feel safer. Thing is, it won't. It won't make you safer, and more importantly I'm willing to bet it wouldn't make you feel safer either, you rant with such foam and fervor you come across as pathological. Arguing any point with you would be pointless, you'd never change your mind.

Have a nice day.

[niceguyshawne]

Cheese is really doing well in this thread.

I miss his old avatar though.

[trq]

and to sum my arguement up, I want you all to remember one thing:

the nazis had ignore lists that they put the jews on.

V

I'm sorry ... what?

I'm pretty sure six million jews didn't die because of inattention.

[niceguyshawne]

I'm sorry ... what?

I'm pretty sure six million jews didn't die because of inattention.


He is attempting to be funny by stealing a line from Office Space

[Veritas1204]

wow shawne, I'm suprised you took time away from jerking off cheese to notice something that suttle.

Impressive.

Now, you better get back to work; your man cheese needs some "release" if he's to spew the talking points correctly.

[Cheese]

Actually my stance on this topic tends to be more Thomas Paine or Jeffersonain then anything either modern party would put into a talking point. At least, that's what I use as my moral standard.

[Msut77]

wow shawne, I'm suprised you took time away from jerking off cheese to notice something that suttle.

Impressive.

Now, you better get back to work; your man cheese needs some "release" if he's to spew the talking points correctly.


Perhaps you meant "subtle"?

Bag him and tag him, he is just another moronic rushbot.

[Abdullah2]

I'll say that I would be offended if I was checked extra because of my race/assumption of my religion. It would cause me to dislike US policy even more, or should I say fucking conservative policy. The democratic way in all issues lately would make me a happier US citizen in almost every issue. If every issue was handled democratically, then the terrorists wouldn't even HAVE a reason to be hostile to the US (except conservative mistakes of the past). Just treat them like everyone else, and show love, spread education and assistance but not forcefully.

Like myk mentioned, getting past security merely by appearance/id theft would be very easy for someone as dedicated as to give their life. Couldn't the airports simply double or triple the amount of checkpoints to reduce slowdown? That would make everyone happy (well maybe not conservatives).

[Veritas1204]

yes, mslut, because we all know the true sign of partisan hackery is ...GASP....misspelling words on a fucking internet forum.

You sure got me there.

Seriously, do you have anything of fucking value to add to any conversation besides retarded one line responses that a six year old wouldn't even claim?

Or do you really believe that fellating the resident liberal poster du jure without adding a centilla of anything that can be construed as an original thought is enough to get people to even pay attention to anything you say?

But you keep on truckin, mslut; It looks like you've found the one place where correcting someone's grammar and calling them a rushbot (wow, how fucking original; never heard that before...) can pass for adult intellectual debate, and weakly worded one-line put downs that were old when we were 6 pass for complex analysis.

Just don't go thinking for a second that you can get away with that weak ass shit in the real world; you'll get your ass handed to you in a way that will make your grandkids ashamed.

(oh, and feel free to spellcheck my post for errors, and post another pathetic generalization about my political affiliation based on this "expert" analysis).

V

[rodeojones903]

If every issue was handled democratically, then the terrorists wouldn't even HAVE a reason to be hostile to the US (except conservative mistakes of the past).



One big reason that there is so much resentment from them is because they think we are immoral. Americans with the porn, homosexuality, and abortion must be killed or converted to Islam. I don't think holding their hand and singing songs is going to work the way you think it will.

[alonzomourning23]

If that was the main issue then they'd be going after countries like Sweden. The issue is, and has always been, the relation between us and the middle east and muslims. They don't get recruits simply because of our morality in our own country.

[niceguyshawne]

One big reason that there is so much resentment from them is because they think we are immoral. Americans with the porn, homosexuality, and abortion must be killed or converted to Islam. I don't think holding their hand and singing songs is going to work the way you think it will.


Funny, I thought that the 9/11 hijackers were known to frequent Gentlemen's Clubs while they were training for their mission. U.S. policy in the Middle East is a lot more responsible for them hating us than the porn stash under my bed.

[niceguyshawne]

wow shawne, I'm suprised you took time away from jerking off cheese to notice something that suttle.

Impressive.

Now, you better get back to work; your man cheese needs some "release" if he's to spew the talking points correctly.


Seriously, do you have anything of fucking value to add to any conversation besides retarded one line responses that a six year old wouldn't even claim?

Or do you really believe that fellating the resident liberal poster du jure without adding a centilla of anything that can be construed as an original thought is enough to get people to even pay attention to anything you say?

One of these things is not like the others,
One of these things just doesn't belong,
Can you tell which thing is not like the others
By the time I finish my song?

[Msut77]

[COLOR=mediumturquoise]yes, mslut, because we all know the true sign of partisan hackery is ...GASP....misspelling words on a fucking internet forum


No that is merely evidence of your idiocy, the rushbot part is when you imply those who reply to you hate America.

P.s. I was not shooting for originality, merely accuracy.

[camoor]

Funny, I thought that the 9/11 hijackers were known to frequent Gentlemen's Clubs while they were training for their mission. U.S. policy in the Middle East is a lot more responsible for them hating us than the porn stash under my bed.

All the same, their perfect world is one where porn, homos, abortion, and free speech would be abolished.

[Msut77]

BTW Very, when you said "du jure" did you mean "De jure" as in based on law or "Du jour" meaning of the day?

[schuerm26]

I'll say that I would be offended if I was checked extra because of my race/assumption of my religion. It would cause me to dislike US policy even more, or should I say fucking conservative policy. The democratic way in all issues lately would make me a happier US citizen in almost every issue. If every issue was handled democratically, then the terrorists wouldn't even HAVE a reason to be hostile to the US (except conservative mistakes of the past). Just treat them like everyone else, and show love, spread education and assistance but not forcefully.

Like myk mentioned, getting past security merely by appearance/id theft would be very easy for someone as dedicated as to give their life. Couldn't the airports simply double or triple the amount of checkpoints to reduce slowdown? That would make everyone happy (well maybe not conservatives).

All i can say is wow. You are a very naive little man.

[mykevermin]

All i can say is wow. You are a very naive little man.

Care to go into detail?

[schuerm26]

"If every issue was handled democratically, then the terrorists wouldn't even HAVE a reason to be hostile to the US (except conservative mistakes of the past). Just treat them like everyone else, and show love, spread education and assistance but not forcefully."

That's all the detail that is needed. You can't possibly think they won't attack if we do this. This is a religious war. We either convert or die (fox news reporters). Treating them like everyone else unfortunately won't work.

[mykevermin]

You can't truly believe that it boils down to nothing more than religion. There are hundreds of other countries that fit that criteria that don't run the risk of being attacked by Muslim extremists.

I'm curious what you think of those Fox News captives, since they converted to be released.

[schuerm26]

If that's what it took to save my life, i would have done the exact same thing. Im not a hardcore religious person so i don't know how they would react. I would think most people would have done that when it really boils down to it )even extremely religious). Any extremely religious people here have feelings on what the fox news reporter and the kidnapped camera man did?

[mykevermin]

Thanks for being honest. A few conservative pundits have lambasted them for capitulating for the sake of saving their lives, and I hoped that such a mentality was few and far between.