What Rockstar should learn from Saints Row

[Fatesealer]

What parts of the Saints Row game do you see Rockstar stealing... err... I mean, incorporating, into GTA IV?

-Analog targeting
-resurrectable running mates
-expanded customizable lead look
-pedestrians as real objects, not just squished when hit by a car
-an MP3 player, or portable music device to keep music going even when out the car

[SteveMcQ]

multiplayer

[zewone]

I agree with everything else posted, plus I would like to add:

save anywhere

[zewone]

I agree with everything else posted, plus I would like to add:

save anywhere

[The Dord]

I agree with everything else posted, plus I would like to add:

save anywhere

Outside of a mission of course :D

[The Dord]

I agree with everything else posted, plus I would like to add:

save anywhere

Outside of a mission of course :D

[Murcielago77]

-an MP3 player, or portable music device to keep music going even when out the car

i dont get that, couldnt you just do the dashboard thing then, and play music the whole time, why do you really need a portable music player.

i still need to get saints row, anyone wanna sell me a copy?

[graf1k]

i dont get that, couldnt you just do the dashboard thing then, and play music the whole time, why do you really need a portable music player.

i still need to get saints row, anyone wanna sell me a copy?

If you do it through Saint's Row's in-game audio player, it cuts the music off during phone calls & cutscenes.

Also, I agree with what everyone else said about what Rockstar can learn from Saint's Row. I'd also like to see more new types of side missions in GTA4 like the insurance missions in Saint's Row.

[Graystone]

I see that they could both learn something from each other. That type of competition to bring out the best sandbox "gangsta" game would lead to some awesome games.

I'll change the thread a little and say I think Saints row could learn from Rockstar to add more then cars to your games. Where's my motorcycles, Helicopters, and planes. I wanting to know who is going to be the first to add a space shuttle that you can blast off into space with. That would be fucking awesome.

[Mojimbo]

I fucking love how you don't loose your weapons when you die, that was always my biggest turn off from GTA games(aside from the goofy shooting/driving). Actually being able to survive a 5 star riot is awesome too.

[RedvsBlue]

I fucking love how you don't loose your weapons when you die, that was always my biggest turn off from GTA games(aside from the goofy shooting/driving). Actually being able to survive a 5 star riot is awesome too.

Yeah definetly. Earlier tonight I was in the middle of heading to a neighborhood to clear out a rival gang and needed some weapons so I stopped by the gun store. Unfortunately it was closed so I decided to rob it hoping there would be a gun or two in the safe. Of course the police showed up so I decided to quickly dispatch them with a pipe bomb. I go up to 2 stars at that point but grab the cop car and take off. I was too lazy to go to forgive and forget so I continued on with the neighborhood clearing. I was only ofcusing on killing the rival gang but along the way I started racking up a higher police rating and more stars. Eventually a helicopter showed up and I decided to blow it up with a rocket launcher. At that point the FBI showed up to stop me and they were just CRAZY and of course I died.

Had that happened in GTA I would have been pissed because I'd have to start all over with no weapons or sit through the load time (its almost required to save after every mission in GTA) but instead I was laughing my ass off up to and including when I died, mainly because I thought to myself: "all because the fucking gun store wasn't open."

[Zoglog]

what they should learn not to do from Saints Row...

Lame ass ghetto thug "gangstah" bling bling theme. I don't play this crap to feel like i'm in an episode of MTV's Cribs with all the other house n.....

But yeah, since I first played Saints Row, always been massive improvments............ Too bad stupid 360 broke before I got the game.

[whoknows]

I agree with everything else posted, plus I would like to add:

save anywhere
Seriously. Having to go halfway across the map to save is stupid IMO. Outside of missions you should be able to save wherever, whenever.

[Tha Xecutioner]

what Saints Row needs to get from GTA: better storyline and music selection (add better radio stations to that list)
what GTA needs to get from Saints Row: shooting controls (in car as well), multiplayer, deeper car customization, hold-ups, ability to choose what your character looks like (and be as technical as SR's)

both games need way more clothing choices and better car controls - all I can think of for now

[Brak]

Saints Row won't even be in GTAIV's league. Rockstar is going to spin the genre on its ear.

[A Happy Panda]

Saints Row won't even be in GTAIV's league. Rockstar is going to spin the genre on its ear.

Let's all hope so.

Also, the map system is SO much better in Saint's Row. I was completely annoyed whenever I had to do a long-ass mission because I didn't take 10 hours to memorize the fucking map, I'd wind up taking a wrong turn, of find out I'd have to take the freeway, which conveniently sat over a regular road. The fact that you can select ANY point on the map, and your HUD map will guide you is genius.

[Graystone]

Saints Row won't even be in GTAIV's league. Rockstar is going to spin the genre on its ear.

Any previews to back that up. I like both games but that statement is like me saying that Rayman Raving Rabbids for the wii will revolution platforming. I know nothing about the game and there is hardly any info on it.

I'm not saying GTA4 will be bad, but I don't think it will be as great as your saying. I think it will be a great game. But I honestly can't see what they could add to the genre that would be so different. No matter what the missions are going to be what we've already seen. No doubt the game will look great graphically. But until we get more info we can't say anything. We do know that the radio, city, and vehicles will be better and bigger in GTA4

[pimpinc333]

I like the GPS type system they having. Finding out where to go has never been more easy. Ragdoll Physic's are great also. Cell Phone so you can call your homies and steal there cars when they get there.

[Deadend]

How about restarting a mission after dying? From that spot, not going back to free-roam? Godfather did that too, but... whatever, we are praising Saints Row.

[Ma12kez]

I like the GPS type system they having. Yeah I agree. I absolutely love the map in this game and being able to set waypoints/hot routes to specified locations whenever you want to (if I remember correctly you couldn't do that in GTA; please correct me if I'm wrong though, my memory is a bit fuzzy on that). I always hated getting lost in GTA, though the map was good, I like the map in Saint's Row better.

Although this isn't in Saint's Row (can't remember if this was in GTA), I'd like to see a "wait" option (like in Oblivion) to pass the time because whenever I need to buy weapons or anything they're always CLOSED. And that happens at the worst times too!:bomb:

[Scorch]

Any previews to back that up.

No doubt the game will look great graphically. We do know that the radio, city, and vehicles will be better and bigger in GTA4

Any previews to back that up? :dunce:

[Brak]

Any previews to back that up. I like both games but that statement is like me saying that Rayman Raving Rabbids for the wii will revolution platforming. I know nothing about the game and there is hardly any info on it.

I'm not saying GTA4 will be bad, but I don't think it will be as great as your saying. I think it will be a great game. But I honestly can't see what they could add to the genre that would be so different. No matter what the missions are going to be what we've already seen. No doubt the game will look great graphically. But until we get more info we can't say anything. We do know that the radio, city, and vehicles will be better and bigger in GTA4
Look at the Grand Theft Auto track record:

The leap from PSX to PS2 was substantial. People who've played Grand Theft Auto 1, 2 and London '69 would never imagine that the series would transform into what it did with III.

Now, look at the leaps in gameplay from III to Vice City. When playing III, I asked myself, "How the fuck can it get any better than this"... and it did. Then that rhetorical question was asked once again, when playing Vice City. As far as I'm concerned, the transition between Vice City to San Andreas was mold-shattering, and mind-melting. I couldn't imagine it would be that good.

So, here we are again; another leap into another generation of consoles. The leap from San Andreas to IV is going to be massive. Sure, it's a prediction... but look at the pieces we have to make a hypothesis with.

And we've seen the IV graphics engine, what with Table Tennis. Simply compare those character models to San Andreas, and let everything else follow -- the car models, the landscapes, the physics, the missions... It's going to be huge.

They've topped what they've done with every transition - even with the incremental ones. Once the "WOW" factor of Saints Row is washed away, and we see GTA IV, the masses will notice that Saints Row is really just Grand Theft Auto III: The Sequel.

[pimpinc333]

Yeah I agree. I absolutely love the map in this game and being able to set waypoints/hot routes to specified locations whenever you want to (if I remember correctly you couldn't do that in GTA; please correct me if I'm wrong though, my memory is a bit fuzzy on that). I always hated getting lost in GTA, though the map was good, I like the map in Saint's Row better.

Although this isn't in Saint's Row (can't remember if this was in GTA), I'd like to see a "wait" option (like in Oblivion) to pass the time because whenever I need to buy weapons or anything they're always CLOSED. And that happens at the worst times too!:bomb:
Yea the wait option was sorta in GTA. If you save it then 6 or 8 hours roll by. I wish Saint's Did the same since in my game last night it was raining reallly bad and the driving conditions were bad. I feared for my guys life.

[pimpinc333]

Look at the Grand Theft Auto track record:

The leap from PSX to PS2 was substantial. People who've played Grand Theft Auto 1, 2 and London '69 would never imagine that the series would transform into what it did with III.

Now, look at the leaps in gameplay from III to Vice City. When playing III, I asked myself, "How the fuck can it get any better than this"... and it did. Then that rhetorical question was asked once again, when playing Vice City. As far as I'm concerned, the transition between Vice City to San Andreas was mold-shattering, and mind-melting. I couldn't imagine it would be that good.

So, here we are again; another leap into another generation of consoles. The leap from San Andreas to IV is going to be massive. Sure, it's a prediction... but look at the pieces we have to make a hypothesis with.

And we've seen the IV graphics engine, what with Table Tennis. Simply compare those character models to San Andreas, and let everything else follow -- the car models, the landscapes, the physics, the missions... It's going to be huge.

They've topped what they've done with every transition - even with the incremental ones. Once the "WOW" factor of Saints Row is washed away, and we see GTA IV, the masses will notice that Saints Row is really just Grand Theft Auto III: The Sequel.

Yea I'm sure Rockstar could have tossed a Next Gen GTA game out this year but they want it to have a "WOW" Factor like you said. I Think when GTA4 comes out it will not doubt have set even more High Standards on Free Roaming Games.

For now though I do give prop's to Voilition Inc. They did what no one else could besides Rockstar.

[graf1k]

I like that where are 2 pretty decent urban crime sandbox games now. And while GTA4 will most likely blow the doors off Saint's Row, whos to say Saint's Row 2 (you know it's coming) won't also blow the doors off the first Saint's Row? The best part is if Saint's Row sells well enough to get THQ to greenlight the next game immediately, we could have the situation where there is one stellar urban crime sandbox game every year. Saint's Row one year, GTA the next. My only hope is that hopefully sooner rather than later one series or the other goes international. Maybe GTA4 in London or something. Saint's Row could do it too although it'd probably have to lose the name 'Saint's Row' (unless they want to make it that the Saints have gone global or something).

[Brak]

I like that where are 2 pretty decent urban crime sandbox games now. And while GTA4 will most likely blow the doors off Saint's Row, whos to say Saint's Row 2 (you know it's coming) won't also blow the doors off the first Saint's Row? The best part is if Saint's Row sells well enough to get THQ to greenlight the next game immediately, we could have the situation where there is one stellar urban crime sandbox game every year. Saint's Row one year, GTA the next. My only hope is that hopefully sooner rather than later one series or the other goes international. Maybe GTA4 in London or something. Saint's Row could do it too although it'd probably have to lose the name 'Saint's Row' (unless they want to make it that the Saints have gone global or something).
Volition is working on four "open-world games" (as they put it). They've stated that some of them won't be able to be dubbed as clones of anything (GTA), as they're going to try something new.

One of them is rumored to be a Saints Row sequel, which they're already working on, they say.

Edit: Maybe it was three; not four.

http://xbox360.qj.net/Volition-Three-More-Open-World-Games-in-Development/pg/49/aid/64484

[graf1k]

Very cool. Hadn't heard that. I'm surprised they could work on four at the same time. Being that Saint's Row was their first game (at least I'm pretty sure it was) I'd think they were a relatively small dev team. Then again, 'working' on four games could mean actually developing one game and doing concepts for 3 others.

[2Fast]

Very cool. Hadn't heard that. I'm surprised they could work on four at the same time. Being that Saint's Row was their first game (at least I'm pretty sure it was) I'd think they were a relatively small dev team. Then again, 'working' on four games could mean actually developing one game and doing concepts for 3 others.
Wasn't their first game, they've made:

Descent - FreeSpace
FreeSpace 2
Red Faction
Red Faction 2
Saints Row
Summoner
Summoner II
The Punisher

[pimpinc333]

I also like the whole Car Customization. Sure GTA had a little bit but it was as in-depth.

Also the Car Garage. I love how if you upgrade your car and it gets destroyed you can pay money to fix it up. And if you park your car somewhere and leave it there it will disappear but it will go to your garage. I wouldn't mind a real life parking. You park your car it should stay there. ( Maybe on the map have a litle car symbol so you don't forget where it is ) Who knows it could get Jacked or towed. Just think seeing someone ( The Thief ) drving your car around the city. I

[Sofa King Kool]

pedestrians as real objects, not just squished when hit by a car


They'd better have that. I'm so sick of the falling down animation. Ragdoll is always awesome.

[whoknows]

They'd better have that. I'm so sick of the falling down animation. Ragdoll is always awesome.
I especially liked how in True Crime: NYC, when you hit a car head on the drive flies out the windshield :-P

[mvp828]

I especially liked how in True Crime: NYC, when you hit a car head on the drive flies out the windshield :-P

They do it in Saints Row too.

[KaneRobot]

Saints Row won't even be in GTAIV's league. Rockstar is going to spin the genre on its ear.
I don't know what you're basing that on. *Edit* - I do now, after reading your later post, but you're giving Rockstar far too much credit in regards to the GTA sequels. VC and San Andreas were good because the original game was solid and didn't get old easily (original meaning GTA3 - the earler incarnations were ok - not great - but merely a footnote in the series history), not because they pumped out these overwhelmingly amazing changes with each sub-sequel. Incremental (almost inconsequential) control changes along with a time/location change and more music/weapons/cars doesn't strike me as something that goes along with the expectations you seem to be placing on the upcoming sequel. Saint's Row is what GTA:SA should have been, disregarding the obvious stuff like graphics enhancements.

That said...

Rockstar's track record with games other than their "safe zone" in the GTA3 engine has been fairly unremarkable. Once in a while you get a Midnight Club or a Table Tennis that grabs your attention for a short time, but nothing anyone will look back on and long for 10 years from now. I question whether or not they'll really be revolutionary or just add more bells and whistles, while borrowing some of the things Saint's Row did right.

Don't overlook Saint's Row, it may wind up to be one of the more signifcant games of the last couple years. Volition is not a joke. Even if/when GTAIV winds up making Saint's Row look like shit, THQ will surely fire back with Saint's Row 2, improving on whatever deficiencies GTAIV has...plus, next time around THQ/Volition will likely have more money to throw around to put even more resources into their game.

There's really no losing here - since SR seems to be a hit, it'll just push Rockstar to work harder. When Rockstar works harder, THQ will work harder. I'd rather have two AAA urban sandbox games competing for my money than one going off unchallenged by anything legitimate (True Crime New York and DRIV3R aren't legitimate).

the masses will notice that Saints Row is really just Grand Theft Auto III: The Sequel.

And GTA IV isn't?

[Roufuss]

They've topped what they've done with every transition - even with the incremental ones. Once the "WOW" factor of Saints Row is washed away, and we see GTA IV, the masses will notice that Saints Row is really just Grand Theft Auto III: The Sequel.

I agree with this.

I really dig Saints Row but it feels more like an evolution on GTA 3 than it does something newer, like San Andreas. I kinda miss things like buying property, driving bikes, motorcycles, and boats, the army (Saints Row only goes to 5 stars that I've seen and stops).

One thing I really like about Saints Row is that the whole city was available right from the start, things weren't "locked off" like in the GTA games.

[redgopher]

How about a major upgrade to the f*cking shit-ass graphics engine they've been using ever since GTA III?

[Graystone]

Any previews to back that up? :dunce:

Table tennis used the engine GTA4 will be built on :dunce:

Don't need a preview for that. If we have a game made off the engine already.


Look at the Grand Theft Auto track record:

The leap from PSX to PS2 was substantial. People who've played Grand Theft Auto 1, 2 and London '69 would never imagine that the series would transform into what it did with III.

Now, look at the leaps in gameplay from III to Vice City. When playing III, I asked myself, "How the fuck can it get any better than this"... and it did. Then that rhetorical question was asked once again, when playing Vice City. As far as I'm concerned, the transition between Vice City to San Andreas was mold-shattering, and mind-melting. I couldn't imagine it would be that good.

So, here we are again; another leap into another generation of consoles. The leap from San Andreas to IV is going to be massive. Sure, it's a prediction... but look at the pieces we have to make a hypothesis with.

And we've seen the IV graphics engine, what with Table Tennis. Simply compare those character models to San Andreas, and let everything else follow -- the car models, the landscapes, the physics, the missions... It's going to be huge.

They've topped what they've done with every transition - even with the incremental ones. Once the "WOW" factor of Saints Row is washed away, and we see GTA IV, the masses will notice that Saints Row is really just Grand Theft Auto III: The Sequel.

Good points or touche as some would say

[2Fast]

Y'know, I think making Table Tennis is the smartest thing Rockstar has ever done. They're familar with the system now and will be ready to blow your mind with GTA IV, instead of making it they're first foray into next-gen games like Saint's Row is for Volition/THQ. The game is going to be huge. I still don't know how they fit San Andreas into a single PS2 disc with all the stuff that was in that game that Saint's Row is missing.

Anyway, I'm finally going to pick up SR in a couple of hours, hope it's as good as everyone says.

[Graystone]

I still don't know how they fit San Andreas into a single PS2 disc with all the stuff that was in that game .

It was the first and as far as I know the only PS2 game to be a dual layer disc or game. So it held 8 gigs.

[CYRiX]

multiplayer
lol how could he forget this.

[starmask2k3]

GTA 4 needs gas stations that u can use. why have gas station if u cant use them. that whould be so sweet if u need to stop for gas.

[graf1k]

Wasn't their first game, they've made:

Descent - FreeSpace
FreeSpace 2
Red Faction
Red Faction 2
Saints Row
Summoner
Summoner II
The Punisher

Wow I'm retarded. I even played RF & RF2 and Punisher...

[mvp828]

GTA 4 needs gas stations that u can use. why have gas station if u cant use them. that whould be so sweet if u need to stop for gas.

Yeah that would be sweet, but fuck filling up a car. When yoink I'll just wait for someone else to go in and pay for the car they just filled up for me.:D

[coltcannon]

My problem with SR is the enviroment/setting as a mall-bought ghetto look. The gamepay is alot of fun, expecially the multiplayer. Rockstar have nailed the enviroments and time periods for both VC and SA perfectly. I just dont feel SR has the "historical significance".

[A Happy Panda]

Yeah that would be sweet, but fuck filling up a car. When yoink I'll just wait for someone else to go in and pay for the car they just filled up for me.:D

Yeah man. They could have real-time gas price updates! One day, it will be $2.78 then the next, $2.89! I CANNOT WAIT.

[SteveMcQ]

Yeah man. They could have real-time gas price updates! One day, it will be $2.78 then the next, $2.89! I CANNOT WAIT.Damn...a "world aware" feature (for lack of a better term). If they could program certain AI routines based on recent world news (take the bomb scare in London that shut down air travel there and hampered it in the rest of the world and have that trigger an AI sequence that heightens or even prevents aircraft travel in the game world) that'd be sweet. Way too ambitious though.

[thamaster24]

As long as the next GTA doesn't have you holding a gun sideways, that's about the only thing I don't like from SR

[OGHowie]

SA was the only game that I didn't beat in the GTA series. Something about being a gangsta in the ghetto just didn't intrigue me that much. The long ass driving missions didn't help either. The best GTA is still Vice City.

[PenguinMaster]

-Analog targeting


San Andreas had Analog targeting, you just had to hold R1/Right Trigger and move the right analog stick.

I fucking love how you don't loose your weapons when you die, that was always my biggest turn off from GTA games(aside from the goofy shooting/driving). Actually being able to survive a 5 star riot is awesome too.

If you get Katie as a girlfriend in San Andreas you can keep your weapons after dying and getting Barbara as a girlfriend will let you keep your weapons after being arrested.

SA was the only game that I didn't beat in the GTA series. Something about being a gangsta in the ghetto just didn't intrigue me that much. The long ass driving missions didn't help either. The best GTA is still Vice City.

Most of the game isn't about being a "gangsta in the ghetto" and it gets a lot better after that part.

[Brak]

Most of the game isn't about being a "gangsta in the ghetto" and it gets a lot better after that part.
Right. That game actually shook the whole ghetto thing, and got grander and grander as the story progressed.

If anything, the story was an epic about rising out of the ghetto.

[PenguinMaster]

Y'know, I think making Table Tennis is the smartest thing Rockstar has ever done. They're familar with the system now and will be ready to blow your mind with GTA IV, instead of making it they're first foray into next-gen games like Saint's Row is for Volition/THQ.

While I think it was a good idea as well, it's not the same development team. Table Tennis was made by Rockstar San Diego, all the GTAs (except the portable games) have been made by Rockstar North.

EDIT: On a side note, Grand Theft Auto 3 was Rockstar North's (DMA Design at the time) first game on PS2 at that was still amazing.

[pimpinc333]

It was the first and as far as I know the only PS2 game to be a dual layer disc or game. So it held 8 gigs.
Nope it was a single 4.7 GB Disc. The day I bought it I popped it on my HDloader and came up only 4GB's.

Also I like being able to buy Cars in Saints Row. Its not that well done but its better then nothing. I would like the whole bothersome Car Salesmen in GTA4 :)

[TC]

So far my favorite things are the save anywhere and the route arrow in the mini-map.

[rly723]

what both games need is a main character that isnt a mute lol
in both games all we see is gestures in the cut scenes, no voice acting at all

[OGHowie]

what both games need is a main character that isnt a mute lol
in both games all we see is gestures in the cut scenes, no voice acting at all

Huh? I know in some GTAs the main character spoke. Ray Liotta did the voice of the main character in Vice City which is probably my fav GTA of all.

[Brak]

what both games need is a main character that isnt a mute lol
in both games all we see is gestures in the cut scenes, no voice acting at all
The main character spoke in Vice City and San Andreas.

[DJSteel]

side mission trackers... and quick starts on some of the side missions.. it's damn helpful..

[cyberlian]

GTA needs to take from Saints Row:
Regenerating Health
Map Navigation system
Insurance Fraud (Fucking Awesome)
Save Anywhere
Hitman was great on SR
Hostages and Stickups


Saint's Row needs to learn a couple of things from GTA:
The GTA Soul! (I don't know how to explain this)
A better soundtrack
Develop a more extensive plot
Where are the helicopters, motorcycles, and boats?
Size and Scope of the game and the in-game world
A bigger "sand box"


All in all, Saint's Row is the first GTA-clone that I have really enjoyed playing. I think I might like Saint's Row better than San Andreas, with that said, Vice City is still my all time favorite. I look forward to the competition that will hopefully arise between the two developers and the quality games that will result from a mutal stealing of ideas.

[DJSteel]

i forgot to add.. strongholds... cool as shit!

[elsnow77]

the best part is that weapons dont leave when you die

[Limegreen]

I would like to see in grand theft auto real cars and a speed gauge to see how fast you are going !

[Randy Orton]

Imagine GTA on consoles being like the PC mods, "Multi-Theft Auto". That would own, seriously. having like, 32 max people on a server (or more) and doing missions together. The economy has a bunch of stats like Crime Rate, Tazes, etc... Oh god, i'ma cream my jeans!