GBA game arrived crushed b/c seller packed in an envelope.. UPDATE 10/25

[DustBoogie]

I ordered Metal Slug Advance from a seller because the picture showed the game box in very good condition. I usually remember to request that GBA games are sent in a box when I buy off eBay but it slipped my mind this time, somehow.

To my disgust, the seller shipped it in a plain manila envelope. Not even a bubble mailer. It arrived about as well as you would have expected it to had he attached the mailing label directly to the box. The case in destroyed.

I know it's not much money, but $15 is $15. I contacted the seller and he says it's my problem because I didn't specifically request he send in a box. I had a dispute opened with PayPal and have now escalated it to a claim to get my money back.

Am I in the right? Here (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=018&item=280031369061&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1)'s the link to the auction. He says it is in excellent condition in the auction. What I was sent may have been that, but my stance is that he should have had the brains to know that such a fragile cardboard box would never survive being shipped in an envelope. Furthermore, I paid more than I would have for just the game to get it complete.. all of this is on the PayPal dispute.

I just don't feel like I should be forced to babysit the seller and teach him what freakin' common sense is. I doubt PayPal will close the claim in my favor, and my father says the effort of a chargeback isn't worth the $15. What can I expect to happen? This guy already had one negative feedback, so a second one is going to hurt his 41 feedback a lot more than 1 negative will hurt my 87, so I'm not worried about that.. I just want my money back.

[MrDubbs]

Well, in order for you to get your money back, you'd have to send the item back to the seller with DC. Then give that to paypal, otherwise if you still have the item they won't give you any money

[6669]

I lot of people dont care about the boxes though. Unless you specified you wanted it in mint condition like you usually do, then I dont think you have much of an arguement. I do agree he should have shipped it in something better than in envelope, since the game could have been damaged. You should complain that you received the game damaged too and maybe that will get him to refund or reimburse you some.

[daroga]

No, you are not in the right and asking for full price back is insane. A partial refund ($2-3) would be reasonable, but he's not obligated to send you anything if you didn't request it to be sent in a box.

It's a bummer it got damaged, but I bet you'll remember to ask next time. :)

[Noodle Pirate!]

If it was me, I would have expected the box to come in the condition he stated it was. He didnt say box may arrive crushed, he said the game was in excellent conditon meaning all parts of it. You should have received what was stated in the auction in the quality he stated.
It's just another example of sellers trying to ship as cheaply as possible to profit the change I guess.
I don't know how paypal or ebay would handle that sort of thing, I would be mad but in the end as long as the game played I guess I would drop it. It depends on how badly you want a good box I guess.

[Dr Mario Kart]

You shouldnt have to ask to have it sent in a box. Its assumed that the seller will be able to get the item in the listing to you in the condition it was described in.

[Roufuss]

You shouldnt have to ask to have it sent in a box. Its assumed that the seller will be able to get the item in the listing to you in the condition it was described in.

Seller can just blame it on the USPS and claim the buyer should have gotten insurance.

He can say he sent it out in the condition he stated it as, and it got mangled by the USPS. It's a shitty excuse but it's just one of the ones he could use.

This is a shitty situation all around... it's a big reason why I only ship priority mail so everything can go in a box.

Seller dosen't seem that bright from the auction description though... it's tough to say how Paypal will rule. You can send the game back to the guy, and he'll just say "Hey, this isn't the condition I sent it out in".

[FrankTheFrowner]

If I sell something on eBay, it's my responsibility to get the item to the buyer in the stated condition whether they buy insurance or not. Shipping anything in a non-padded envelope is crazy -- especially when you're charging $2.49 for shipping. You'll probably win the PayPal dispute if you said that the item was significantly different than described.

It also looks like someone else had a similar problem with this seller (check his feedback from 9/20). I don't know if you saw that before you bid or not, but it's always worth a minute or two to check out the negs on any seller that's under 99% or so.

[Vinny]

The seller will just claim that he you didn't buy insurance and therefore he's not to blame.

I honestly would've sent in a box or at least folded flat and sandwiched between two pieces of cardboard (I prefer having it sent unfolded and sandwiched personally) so that I don't have to put up with people complaining about that stuff.

AMMO FOR YOU! I just noticed that under insurance, it says "Not Offered". If he brings up anything about insurance, you can fire back at him with that.

[FrankTheFrowner]

The seller will just claim that he you didn't buy insurance and therefore he's not to blame.

This is the line that sellers try to use. Everyone should be aware, however, that eBay/PayPal doesn't care if the buyer bought insurance. It is the seller's responsibility to ensure that the item gets to the buyer in the stated condition. Postal insurance protects the seller, not the buyer.

[reallynotnick]

I am with you all the way, the item did not come as pictured and you should get it the way you bought it. I say keep what you are doing.

[guinaevere]

I lot of people dont care about the boxes though.
Possibly, but in most cases, games complete with their boxes go for higher than a loose cart.

If the guy is selling a game and cart, it's his repsonsibility to ensure it arrives at the buyers address in the same condition it was pictured in the auction listing. It would defnately behoove the moron to ship in something far more substantial than an un-padded manilla envelope.

It ought not be the burden of the buyer to remind the seller to get the auctioned item to him in advertised condition. No question.

Go get 'em Boogie, you're in the right to have the expectation that the seller get the item to you in the advertised/described/photographed condition. We're with you.

[sonarrat]

Amazon shipped me a copy of Pokemon Emerald in a padded envelope. Of course, it got destroyed. I got an exchange authorized, sent mine back, and what happens? They send me another one in a padded envelope. Fucking morons. I haven't bought anything from Amazon since, and I have Amazon Prime.

[6669]

Possibly, but in most cases, games complete with their boxes go for higher than a loose cart.

If the guy is selling a game and cart, it's his repsonsibility to ensure it arrives at the buyers address in the same condition it was pictured in the auction listing. It would defnately behoove the moron to ship in something far more substantial than an un-padded manilla envelope.

It ought not be the burden of the buyer to remind the seller to get the auctioned item to him in advertised condition. No question.

Go get 'em Boogie, you're in the right to have the expectation that the seller get the item to you in the advertised/described/photographed condition. We're with you.

Its too hard to tell. Sellers on ebay will sometimes just say its complete and include the box just to prove its not a bootleg. Here's the description the seller gave:
You are bitting on Metal slug advance for game boy advance. It also works on ds and ds lite. It is in excellent condition.
Yep, "bitting". He does say its in excellent condition, but that could just apply to the cart itself, since it never specifies.
The pic is too blurry to tell what condition the box is in. Its up to the OP to decide if the box is considerably worse than it was in the pic. Thats all I got to say. I'm done being Nancy Drew now.

[DustBoogie]

When I saw 6669's post, I snapped a quick picture of the box using my webcam. It's not much greater quality than the seller's picture, but it's clear that this is not in the same condition as advertised in the picture.

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4229/crapfe1.png (http://imageshack.us)

I'm sorta taking that angle in the PayPal dispute from what I've given them so far. That I did not get what was advertised in the picture. If he actually decides to respond to the PayPal dispute (which he has shown no signs of yet) then I can mention his irresponsible shipping methods as well.

I suppose all I can really do is wait and see if he bothers responding, and then to see if PayPal resolves in my favor, and finally to see if anyone has another box available for the game.. though I suppose I could always sell/trade the game and the manual and wait to pick up the game complete at a later date.

Maybe I should blame GameCrazy. I never would have known this game existed if they hadn't dropped the price on it :P

Thanks for the support gang. I'll let you know how it ends.

[arfin]

You shouldn't have to ask for it to be sent in a box, that's nuts. Did you pay using your credit card? Most likely not, but if you did then i bet paypal will side with you.

[gaelan]

Well, in order for you to get your money back, you'd have to send the item back to the seller with DC. Then give that to paypal, otherwise if you still have the item they won't give you any money

do that and proceed with the dispute...hell the game is toast anyways.

[Brian9824]

Actually its a valid complaint. Paypals stance in shipping is that the buyer has to take reasonable pre-cautions when shipping the item. Usually a bubble mailer for most games is reasonable. A plain enevelope wouldnt be.

Also did the seller even offer insurance?

[DustBoogie]

You shouldn't have to ask for it to be sent in a box, that's nuts. Did you pay using your credit card? Most likely not, but if you did then i bet paypal will side with you.

I did pay with a credit card. Why does that make a difference?

[soccerstud652]

I believe you are correct in protesting this. If paypal screws you, file a complaint with your credit card company. It is common knowledge to ship a game in a cardboard box in something sturdy. However, if you did not purchase shipping insurance, the seller has you by the balls. Good luck man, keep us updated!

[DustBoogie]

I believe you are correct in protesting this. If paypal screws you, file a complaint with your credit card company. It is common knowledge to ship a game in a cardboard box in something sturdy. However, if you did not purchase shipping insurance, the seller has you by the balls. Good luck man, keep us updated!

Like others have said, he did not offer shipping insurance. Hopefully that will aid my complaint.

[soccerstud652]

Well, then you have him by the balls. You should have no problem winning this. You might lose out on shipping though.

[guinaevere]

Yep, "bitting".
That was the first thing I noticed first, too. Then I checked the guys feedback...

He does say its in excellent condition, but that could just apply to the cart itself, since it never specifies.
But it ought refer to the object for auction in its' entirety.

I'm done being Nancy Drew now.But I've got this old clock and there's a sort of mystery about it that I need your insight on.

[DustBoogie]

Is PayPal fucking retarded?

Dear Dustin Bartley,

We are in the process of investigating the following claim:

*info removed*

In order to continue with the investigation of your complaint, we must
request documentation to support your claim that the item is damaged or
significantly not as described. Please obtain a document (such as an
estimate or invoice) from an unbiased third-party, such as a dealer, repair
shop, appraiser, or another individual or organization that is qualified in
the area of the item in question (other than yourself). This document
should detail the extent of the damage or clearly explain how the item
received significantly differs from the item advertised. Please do not
proceed with any repairs or alterations to the item, as doing so will limit
PayPals ability to successfully resolve your claim, and may result in the
cancellation of your dispute. If possible, the document should include a
serial number and description of the item, and the dollar amount required
to complete the repairs necessary to correct the damage. This document must
be on letterhead that includes the name, address, and phone number of the
individual, business, or organization so that PayPal may contact them if
necessary.

The documents should be faxed to PayPal at (***) ***-**** (please note this
is a United States phone number, if you are faxing from outside the United
States, you will generally need to dial 00 1 before the number). Please
include a cover sheet with your fax that includes the email address
registered on your PayPal account and the ID number of your claim
(PP-***-***-***) so we may attach the document to your claim as quickly as
possible.

We must receive your fax within 10 days from the date of this message in
order to proceed with the investigation of your claim. If we do not receive
your fax within 10 days, your claim will be cancelled. We are unable to
grant extensions to this time period. PayPal is unable to reimburse you for
any costs or fees that may be incurred in obtaining the requested
documents. Any documents you provide may also be supplied to the seller in
your dispute.

Thank you for your cooperation and patience. We regret any inconvenience
this request may cause.

Sincerely,
Alan
Protection Services Department
PayPal, an eBay Company

So I have to find an appraiser to tell me "yep, that box is crushed"? This shit is fucking retarded. Will they respond to me if I send them an e-mail explaining that the fucking box is crushed and that anyone with half an eyeball can fucking see that? Jesus. I'm almost ready to say fuck it and just ignore this whole thing happened and start looking for a Metal Slug Advance box.

EDIT: Hahah, I'm really fucking pissed at this :-({|=

[arfin]

Man i knew that would happen since the day you started this thread. I bought final fantasy 7 and got final fantasy 8 disks in shit condition, complained to paypal and got that exact same message. They wanted proof that the WRONG disks were scratched up. i was pissed off too, i was actually gonna warn you and tell you to just say you didn't get the game at all, get your money back and shipp the game back to him, but i though you might have better luck. fuck YOU PAYPAL!

[DustBoogie]

So anybody got a box for Metal Slug Advance? Or want to pay $15 shipped for a cart + manual of the game? I'll even throw in the crushed box, and I can ship in an envelope for the humor value!

Seriously, I haven't seen a box on eBay at all. It's going to be easier for me to sell this cartridge and just pretend I never bought the damn thing to begin with.

[Kendro]

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. I did a quick search for the game and found this online retailer has it in stock. I never ordered from them before, and it is a little pricey at $31.99 although shipping is free and there is no tax.

http://www10.cd-wow.us/detail_results_3.php?product_code=12830&subcat=gameboy&affid=14388

[gaelan]

so is the game cart crushed as the title says or is it just the box? if its just the box, then get over it and move on.

[Mr Unoriginal]

so is the game cart crushed as the title says or is it just the box? if its just the box, then get over it and move on.

Why should he pay a few dollars extra for the box and then just 'get over it and move on'?

[gaelan]

Why should he pay a few dollars extra for the box and then just 'get over it and move on'?

by the title of the thread, i thought the actual game was crushed. as long as i had the working game, i'd be okay at this point. true it sucks that the box go crushed, and i know people are picky about that crap. it just seems too much of a hassle at this point to go get a third party involved to verify crushed cardboard. now if you want to have your mom or neighbor pretend she is a cardboard box appraiser, i'd just get her to type something up official looking and fax that in verifying its value and damage. it seems paypal is just interested in getting the necessary paperwork regardless of authenticity.

[DustBoogie]

it just seems too much of a hassle at this point to go get a third party involved to verify crushed cardboard.

Hence the various rants about how retarded this request from PayPal was. I sent them a nasty e-mail about it but I don't expect to hear back, so I've begun trying to trade/sell Metal Slug and look for a new boxed copy.

[wubb]

This is the line that sellers try to use. Everyone should be aware, however, that eBay/PayPal doesn't care if the buyer bought insurance. It is the seller's responsibility to ensure that the item gets to the buyer in the stated condition. Postal insurance protects the seller, not the buyer.

I know I'm late to the party but that's a great post.

And frankly insurance wouldn't pay out for a thin cardboard box crushed in a bubble mailer/envelope anyway. Insurance doesn't cover packaging like a GBA box AFAIK and definitely doesn't cover damage as a result of poor packaging on the part of the shipper.

You could take the game to a local EB/GS (during a non-busy time) explain the situation and ask the worker there to verify the box is crushed as a video game expert. They'd probably get a kick out of it. As far as dollar value needed to correct the damage have them quote you the price of that GBA game new, as you could buy it new to get a fresh box. Or maybe the out of pocket cost of trading in the crushed box + game and buying a new copy. Only thing is they probably won't have a way (or the time/desire) to type up a document for you there in the store, I guess you could bring it with you ready for their signature, but now the whole thing is getting stranger and more complicated... If you have a buddy that works for a video game store that'd probably be better. (Doing this would fuck with PayPal and waste a bit more of their time.)

If it were me I'd probably just leave the guy poor FB and move on, kind of sounds like that's your plan too.

[chosen1s]

Dude, I'm with Wubb.

You should take the game into a game store and have it "appraised" by the guys working there. Get everyone in the store to sign the appraisal. Then take it to several other game stores. It's personal now.

[RAMSTORIA]

quit cryin pussy

[blandstalker]

Dude, I'm with Wubb.

You should take the game into a game store and have it "appraised" by the guys working there. Get everyone in the store to sign the appraisal. Then take it to several other game stores. It's personal now.

I agree. Here's what I'd do:

1) Call a GS/EB and ask for the trade-in value of the game. Since they don't care about the box, it will probably be low. For once, this is good. Ask what the new price is, or find it online.

2) Write the document yourself. Include the appraisal value [aka trade-in value] of the game, and spend a few sentences talking about how the box hurts the value in the secondary market.

Something like:

I certify that Metal Slug Advance, in the condition presented to me, is worth $X.XX. The box is smashed and is not new or collectible quality. The condition of the box significantly decreases the value of the game in the secondary market. The going rate for an undamaged game and box is $Y.YY [i.e. the new price].

And you could put something smarmy in there about how wonderful ES/GB is, how they're a leader in the marketplace, or some such drivel that would both confirm the letter as "expert" and make the GS/EB employee grin.

3) Bring the document with you and ask someone working at the store to sign it. You only need one signature.

Also, along with this letter, I'd consider including a printout from Amazon Marketplace. Include only the listings that mention a box and highlight that word and the price prominently. Their prices tend to be inflated, but this helps establish the value of the box.

[tangytangerine]

If you need the price of a brand new copy, it's $29.99 on their site(which is about what it really goes for new). http://www.ebgames.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=914638

Just in case they don't know the price of it.

[kell]

Hence the various rants about how retarded this request from PayPal was. I sent them a nasty e-mail about it but I don't expect to hear back, so I've begun trying to trade/sell Metal Slug and look for a new boxed copy.

If it will help ease the pain, I have a new sealed one that I can sell you $22 shipped (which will cover my costs only). PM me if interested. If you are nice I will even ship it in a box. ;)

[KrAzY3]

As a occasional seller and buyer I have mixed opinions on this.

I would never ship something knowing it was almost certain to be damaged, in the least I'd try to add bubble wrap or the like. On occasion I've had things shipped to me in plain envelopes with no extra packing and it always annoys me.

However, for instance with what I have on Ebay right now I've had several international buyers contacting me asking how much to ship the GBA games to such and such. I quote them the cheapest shipping price I find and note that I can't insure the box isn't damaged at that rate (shipping in a envelope). And that another method would cost more. So, as a seller I try to be fair and honest but sometimes you have to try and balance out protecting the item with making someone pay a high shipping rate.

Really though, to me if a seller sells a game for 11 bucks, 2.50 shipping and the game itself is in good working order I find it hard to blame the seller too much. If you paid for it at "collectors item price" for instance at what the FF7 I'm selling is going for then I think it is a given that the utmost care is taken. If you're just selling it as a used game I personally wouldn't make a fuss but I would be a bit frustrated. If your game is in good working order and it isn't a bootleg copy I would think you got a fairly good deal.

I've purchased games with crushed boxes from Wal-mart (Bookworm, rare enough to warrant a purchase even with a crushed box). I've ordered online from Bestbuy and gotten crushed boxes and these are for BRAND NEW items. I think it is a little unreasonable, especially without requesting any additional care to expect a used box from a reasonably cheap game to get to you in good condition. But that's just my take.

[reallynotnick]

He bid on the item in the condition it was in, in the picture and he did not get it that way because of the sellers poor packaging. He has all the right in the world to complain, he wanted the box so he bid on that auction and he got a crushed box.

It is like buying a new car but they drive it across the whole USA and it has been ate in and used in just about any way. That is not what you wanted, and not what you agreed on buying.

I say fight it out and teach the sh!t's a thing or too, but if your time is worth a lot of money and you have lots to do maybe just leave it to rest.

[KrAzY3]

Packaging is generally NOT considered the product itself. I've seen plenty of items sold at retail with damaged boxes and no deducations were made provided the item inside was not damaged.

If he was bidding on just the box of course its condition would be relevant. Read his description at no point does he allude to the condition of the box or insure in anyway that it will not be damaged. Not to say I defend how the buyer did it, but he didn't come away with a huge profit and then screws the guy over it. After Ebay fees he cleared like ten bucks which is more than likely less than he spent on the game.

So to summarize. Yes, the seller should have done a better job. However, I don't think the buyer was wronged to the extent of warranting a complaint or the like. I've been wronged far more and not done anything about it, primarily because I try to be as civil as possible on Ebay. in either case, what he did was his choice. I personally might have complained to the seller, but I wouldn't have done anything else besides remember to specify how I wanted it to be shipped the next time.