Is There still time for the PSP to overtake the DS

[Thomas96]

The PSP is on the verge of seeing the best games / years of its life, but I'm wondering if it's too late, and just wanted to get some opinions on it. It'd be nice if Sony would give, 45 dollars off when you buy a ps3 and a psp together, or if they'd just give the system one more price drop. - 149.99. You could get another 5 years of life out of the psp, it's not like it's outdated graphically by the competition. It'd be nice if they were to come out with a redesign that also uses the UMD, like how the DS Lite did, at a 149.99 or cheaper price, instead of a entirely new system. I just want to see the best handheld on the market do well...

[62t]

probably not when they just release the bundle with movie, memory stick, and games. The portable market is never decided by graphpic quality (Lyxn, Game Gear)

[whoknows]

The PSP could catch up, but it won't.

No matter how many awesome games come out on the PSP, people seem to just not care.

[javeryh]

Probably not but I do think a PSP2 could be successful even if they didn't upgrade the horsepower of the system as long as they:

1. Added a second analog nub or added 2 real analog sticks (there's a great usb mod floating around)
2. Ditched the UMD in favor of pro duo based games. This would mean no load times, longer battery life and crazy piracy.
3. Allow homebrew

The PSP is great and can do a ton but it is severely lacking in AAA games and I think it has been flawed from the start.

[furyk]

The PSP won't gain any ground until the system gets redesigned. UMD is simply a bad format and the analog nub is pretty awful too. I like the PSP, it's just not that great of a system designwise.

[chosen1s]

It all comes down to the same old argument - do you want your video game system to be awesome for video games but not do a lot else, or do you want your video game system to be good for video games, music, phone calls (N Gage), video, homework, pictures, etc. etc. etc.

I'm happy the DS is winning out because it proves that the first strategy can still be successful. I still maintain that while the PS2 IS a great system with AWESOME games, a factor in its success was its DVD capabilities. I don't want a PC that just so happens to be able to play games, I want a game playing machine that is optimized for gameplay.

[Thomas96]

psp needs a price drop or a redesign.. regenerate some interest, just like the NIntendo does - you had about 3 versions of the gameboy advance..

[maddfrog]

As a late owner of a PSP I think the problem is that the games are horrible for the console. I don't understand Sony's thought that all handheld gamers want are ports of console games. I don't know who greenlighted this idea, because if there is a choice to play the same game on a handheld or a console, I think everyone would agree that you'd play the console game.

[Strell]

It won't catch up. Definitely not in Japan at least, and it is losing ground in other markets from what I understand.

A redesign would fuel some sales, sure, but when you've got your head guys running around calling the current machine "a piece of art" and whatnot, I don't think you're going to get one anytime soon.

Sony approached this just like they do their console business - they threw a lot of developers at it without trying to really secure a good bevy of high profile AAA and first party titles. If it had come out the gate with Gran Turismo and GTA, I'm sure the story would be different.

But GTA can't even save it at this point, which is pretty huge I'd wager.

UMD just died, so that destroys a good marketing bullet point for the PSP pretty handily.

The big test is to see what happens to game support on the PSP once the PS3 appears. I'm not exactly holding my breath in thinking it'll remain at the level it is now, as Sony has a lot more to win/lose with the PS3, and will invest their resources heavily into it. Sure there's going to be an emulator, but if that is their answer to less support, they need another strategy.

The PSP can't outsell the GBA. That's pretty much the nail in the coffin on whether or not it's gonna pull ahead.

[doubledown]

I would say no. Th eonly thing I use my PSP for lately is music and converted video to watch/listen to at work. The games have never been that great....minus a few exceptions here and there.

Plus, the price point is higher than most want for a handheld.

[Thomas96]

the psp is too powerful for it's own good, that's why it gets a parapper the rapper (rehash) and gitaroo man (rehash), and a smackdown vs raw (rehash), and parapper should have been a game that would be downloaded from online for the ps1 emulator. If you're going to rehash an old game, at least make it cheap... 10/15, maybe 20(that's heavily pushing it though)

It can still beat the DS, at least in upcoming sales, developers have to stop disrespecting the psp

[Strell]

the psp is too powerful for it's own good, that's why it gets a parapper the rapper (rehash) and gitaroo man (rehash), and a smackdown vs raw (rehash), and parapper should have been a game that would be downloaded from online for the ps1 emulator. If you're going to rehash an old game, at least make it cheap... 10/15, maybe 20(that's heavily pushing it though)

It can still beat the DS, at least in upcoming sales, developers have to stop disrespecting the psp

It's cool. Let that fanboy shine on through a little more.

[The Mana Knight]

I don't care. I already like PSP better than DS. As long as PSP continues to have games that I have interest in come out, I'm happy.

[Roufuss]

I don't care. I already like PSP better than DS. As long as PSP continues to have games that I have interest in come out, I'm happy.

Agreed.

The system can die next year but it's already provided me with enough decent games (not counting the ones I'm looking forward to for the rest of the year).

[FriskyTanuki]

In the US? Sure, it's not that far behind and it's selling at a better rate than the DS was at this rate. It's selling better in the US than Japan, which seems to be one of the reasons why Lumines II is coming out here before it does in Japan.

In Japan, hell no, anyone with a brain can tell that. The PSP has done well for itself, but it hasn't gotten the insane sales that the DS Lite continues to have.

[Thomas96]

It's cool. Let that fanboy shine on through a little more.


don't get me wrong it's not that I'm a fanboy and I only like psp... I like the DS, but I do want the psp to do well that's all. I didn't like the way EA did the xbox with the half ass version of Madden 06, or that half as gun, and some other games that looked like xbox games forthe 360 that were 60. My thing is, I want to see good games on psp and let reach its potential. But most DS fanboys may be affraid of that...

[jkam]

I don't think so. The PSP has some great games the only problem is I've played them before. I have Street Fighter Alpha 3 and Hot Shots which are sick and awesome but they aren't anything new. The one game I could say that I played through and loved that was an original PSP game was Syhpon Filter Dark Mirror. The games can be made but we keep getting old games and PS2 games dumbed down. I think a spinning disc was not the way to go for a portable system and although the PSP is good for some games, it feels somewhat clunky for most. I'm not sure how a redesign would help unless it was a complete overhaul of the system. In any event I am looking foward to Metal Gear and Earthworm Jim.

[62t]

PSP has sort of become the platform to make a quick buck by adding some minor things. I mean do we really need Mortal Kombat: Deception port? There are some original games but if you look at the top games many are games that can be played on existing system. Most of those ports are not design as portable games, and can be hard to pick up and play. Also would publisher want to make new game when they can release a port of a PS or PS2 games?

Loading time can be avoid but games like midnight club and WWE gives the PSP a real bad impression.


The PSP is a great system with many great games, but dont expect it to have the success of DS

[cochesecochese]

No. PSP games are not designed from the ground up for the platform (Lumines and LocoRoco are glaring exceptions to this). I don't mean to say that games are 'ports' but the fundamental gameplay aspects are.

With the DS, Nintendo has mandated that all devs must have a prominent use of the second screen yet Sony hasn't done the same thing by telling devs where to focus their efforts. The first party software is good but there aren't enough shining examples to tell the 3rd parties how to make their games great.

I say they scrap it and double down on the PSP2.

[The Mana Knight]

I don't think so. The PSP has some great games the only problem is I've played them before. I have Street Fighter Alpha 3 and Hot Shots which are sick and awesome but they aren't anything new. I'm more so concerned about good games, not if a game is completely original. Around 95% of the games I know of on consoles are not original at all and are basically games we played before (some with a different name). I still find the DS barely has original games either (except a few Japanese games, most Japanese only). Most of the best DS games are sequels to GBA games, which are basically the same thing, with the touch screen added to do stuff that doesn't really add anything to the game (It's easier to just assign buttons, like New Super Mario Bros. touch screen use).

[jkam]

I'm more so concerned about good games, not if a game is completely original. Around 95% of the games I know of on consoles are not original at all and are basically games we played before (some with a different name). I still find the DS barely has original games either (except a few Japanese games, most Japanese only). Most of the best DS games are sequels to GBA games, which are basically the same thing, with the touch screen added to do stuff that doesn't really add anything to the game (It's easier to just assign buttons, like New Super Mario Bros. touch screen use).

Even if most games for the DS aren't original they don't closely match their console counterparts. Like I said I own Street Fighter and Hot Shots and love them but when it comes down to it I can play them on my PS2. The PSP doesn't have new original games like Phoneix Wright, Trauma Center, Pac-Pix, and Pac N Roll to name a few that I have played and enjoyed. I also thought these games made sense using the touch screen. I own a PSP and I like it. I take it for what it is though. IMO the DS has already won the race hands down.

[furyk]

I'm more so concerned about good games, not if a game is completely original. Around 95% of the games I know of on consoles are not original at all and are basically games we played before (some with a different name). I still find the DS barely has original games either (except a few Japanese games, most Japanese only). Most of the best DS games are sequels to GBA games, which are basically the same thing, with the touch screen added to do stuff that doesn't really add anything to the game (It's easier to just assign buttons, like New Super Mario Bros. touch screen use).

Well there's a gross overstatement. There's a difference between using an established character to make a substantially different game. Something like Kirby Canvas Curse or Metroid Prime Pinball is so radically different then how the franchise had been used before that considering them unoriginal on the basis of characters is just a fallacy. Even a Super Princess Peach is pretty far out in left field from something like Yoshi's Island. Furthermore, several games that "aren't" unoriginal benefitted significantly from the use of the touch screen and wi-fi. Mario Kart, Animal Crossing, Tetris, Advanced Wars, Lost in Blue, and Phoenix Wright are all significantly better games because of utilizing the features of the DS.

The PSP's problem is that it seems to be mired in good but not great games. While you can knock the DS for having some truly terrible games, it also has some utterly brilliant games that are system sellers. The PSP on the other hand has had a lot of good games, but nothing that moves systems beyond GTA. Loco Roco has sold incredibly poorly in the US and Luminese isn't exclusive anymore. Even if the DS's originality is just smoke and mirrors, the simple fact of the matter is that they've moved millions of systems so far in a way the PSP can only dream of.

The PSP just doesn't appeal to non/casual Sony gamers the way the DS does to the casual gaming audience who doesn't care one way or the other about Nintendo. Hell, I know PC gamers who hate console gaming that bought a DS simply to play New Super Mario Brothers.

[Grave_Addiction]

Probably not but I do think a PSP2 could be successful even if they didn't upgrade the horsepower of the system as long as they:

1. Added a second analog nub or added 2 real analog sticks (there's a great usb mod floating around)
2. Ditched the UMD in favor of pro duo based games. This would mean no load times, longer battery life and crazy piracy.
3. Allow homebrew

The PSP is great and can do a ton but it is severely lacking in AAA games and I think it has been flawed from the start.

Aside from your first recommendation, there'd be no way in hell Sony would allow that stuff. It'd be cool, but it would never happen, as you're probably aware of.

In Japan, I believe it's a lost cause. The DS regularly beats the PSP by anywhere from 100,000 to 200,000 units a week. A friggin' week!

However, those numbers are a lot closer in North America and Europe. So if Sony can do something soon to change gamer's minds, I believe they can still overtake the DS in those markets.

I don't even think new hardware is the key to them winning, though. If Sony was able to get better games and properly use its advanced hardware, I think that'd be enough. Gamers want the PS1 download service soon, and I think it will be very successful if Sony doesn't overprice its games.

Also, the GPS recently sold out in Japan, so it seems to be a pretty good piece of hardware. That, too, could really help Sony if developers can properly use the peripheral.

[depascal22]

I got into this argument a while back. The PSP and DS are really catering to two different groups of people. I don't see why they can't both be successful.

Sony will screw up the PSP because they can't stand being second. Instead of embracing the underdog mentality and making some unbeatable games, they'll continue to port their best selling games. Tony Hawk, NFL Street, Hot Shots Golf, and Wipeout can all be played on a PS1/PS2.

The problem is that many DS games are also "ports". I just got Mario Kart DS for my wife last week. When she handed the DS over to me, it felt like I was playing a handheld version of the SNES version. Super Mario 64 is a port with added touch screen capablity. Super Princess Peach is a generic Nintendo platformer with "chick" powers.

I think it's funny when people point out the games for the DS that evolve a series. Everyone loves to point out Metroid Pinball or Kirby. No one ever mentions Killzone or the Metal Gear AC!D series. These games have taken an established franchise and changed it up specifically for the PSP. The question should be: Would anyone buy any of these games if they weren't part of a beloved franchise?

The two best games for the system are puzzlers. No one can deny the greatness of Lumines and Meteos. The problem is that we'll just get five more sequels of each instead of an original puzzle game that will capture our imainations again.

Fanboys will play their systems and nothing else. You can't convince them that all the systems have positives and negatives and that there are gems for every system that simply must be played.

I hope the PSP and DS both stick around for 5 more years. I like both systems and I like what they both offer. I guess I'm one of those rare centrists or I just can't make up my fucking mind.

[Dr Mario Kart]

Since there has been mention of the U.S., and how it compares to Japan

September NPD:

NDS - 403,435
PS2 - 306,517
360 - 259,458
GBA - 177,145
PSP - 153,353
NGC - 42,286
XBX - 6,495

[depascal22]

I think it's no secret about the DS's success in America.

1. Low price. (Both console and games are incredibly affordable)
2. Quality library with plenty of beloved franchises represented. (Zelda being the only absence)
3. Backwards compatiblity (Parents don't feel like they wasted hundreds of dollars on games that can no longer be played)

[epobirs]

2. Ditched the UMD in favor of pro duo based games. This would mean no load times, longer battery life and crazy piracy.



Far too expensive. A far better solution would be to support caching the primary portions of a game to Memory Stick while requiring the UMD for proof of ownership and playing stuff that isn't affected by load times, mainly FMV.

This makes both the consumers and the game publishers happy.

[Kendro]

PSP won't catch up to the DS because it was doomed to begin with. For all of its technological achievements, and as impressive as the capabilities of the system are, it is nothing more than a portable PS2. That is what happens when you try to follow Nintendo's "blueprint". They will always be one step behind Nintendo.

Take the GBA, the most successful system ever. It was essentially a portable SNES. One would assume the GBA2 would evolve into a portable N64. Sony probably thought so, and decided to outdo Nintendo and release a PS2-level handheld.

The genius of the DS is that Nintendo realized the handheld market was no longer just about having a "console in the palm of your hands". The handheld market has evolved from being a "portable market" into a "new way of playing games market."

I'm willing to bet even if MGS: PO and GTA: LCS released for the PSP in its first year, they would still be lagging behind the DS in sales. It isn't the lack of good games, its just that we've already "been there and done that."

[epobirs]

The $50K sports car doesn't need to match the sales of the $30K sports car. It just needs to do enough business to make a profit for its producer.

Sony doesn't need to beat the DS. Sony needs the PSP to make money. That is where the platofrm is failing. The installed base is more than sufficient to allow for some fairly high budget games if they reach just 5% of that installed base. The critical gap isn't in unit sales but in software sales in relation to the potential market.

Sony could be neck and neck with the DS for hardware sold but scaling up their software sales to that level would still have them coming badly short on software revenue, even though their media is far less costly and their ASP much higher.

Imagine the PS1's revenues without it's top 100 bestselling games. This is where the PSP is at with a very few exceptions,

[Thomas96]

The ps3 is going to be a big help for the psp for serveral reasons. 1st, now developers can't port ps3 games to it, thus forcing more orginal titles; 2nd ps1 library, and other downloadable games; 3rd accessing ps3 w/ psp; The psp's reemergence is highly contingent on the ps3's success. People talking about the DS already won, and the war is over... I think the war might be just beginning...

[Strell]

The ps3 is going to be a big help for the psp for serveral reasons. 1st, now developers can't port ps3 games to it, thus forcing more orginal titles; 2nd ps1 library, and other downloadable games; 3rd accessing ps3 w/ psp; The psp's reemergence is highly contingent on the ps3's success. People talking about the DS already won, and the war is over... I think the war might be just beginning...

The war is over. It has been over for a while now.

There's lots of problems in your argument. Namely, you're thinking the PSP is going to somehow gain enough support to then overtake the DS in terms of game library (quantity wise, not necessarily quality wise). This won't happen for a lot of reasons, namely that the DS is too far ahead in Japan where the majority of developers are.

Also, as we've seen with the GBA/GC, connectivity between a console and it's portable counterpart is never a system seller. Never. It doesn't help that the best Sony has shown is a rearview mirror in GTA HD, which absolutely no one gives a shit about. Not to mention that the PS3 will actually pull attention away from the PSP. All Sony is doing to counter this is releasing an emulator, and frankly, that's not enough to keep people at bay, interested, or attract enough new blood. It'll bring some and salvage some, but it's a bandaid on a cracked skull.

You're moving into early stages of delusion, brought upon by refusal.

As epobirs pointed out, it can't even make money for Sony, let alone take on the DS. That's the problem here. One of their big moneymakers (UMD) is dead, and the software isn't moving as quickly as should be needed for profit.

It's not going to happen.

[icruise]

I love the PSP (and the DS, just to be fair) but it has some pretty major failings. I actually don't think the hardware is the problem. Sure, some things could be improved, but it's a pretty amazing piece of equipment as it is. The problem is the games (and secondarily, the system's price).

There are some very good games for the PSP. I just started playing Daxter and it's just great. it's an original platformer with great graphics and game play. But for every Daxter, we seem to get 10 crappy ports. And beyond the quality of the games, there's the price. Portable games should not be costing $40+. The DS got this right, with most of its games in the $30-$35 range. And of course, there's the cost of the system as well, which is nearly twice that of the DS (especially if you factor in the required memory card, etc). Is it any wonder that it's not selling as well?

That said, I don't actually think the PSP is doing all that bad. This is no N-GAGE we're talking about. It's just not doing as well as the DS. And I don't think you can expect it to. The DS's user base includes both kids and adults, while the price of the PSP and the available games makes its audience a lot older. So I don't think "is it beating the DS?" is really the question you should ask. What we want to know is if it's doing well enough for the system to sustain itself and to encourage developers to continue making new games. I think it is.

[FriskyTanuki]

I'm willing to bet even if MGS: PO and GTA: LCS released for the PSP in its first year, they would still be lagging behind the DS in sales. It isn't the lack of good games, its just that we've already "been there and done that."
LCS did come out in the PSP's first year.

[Blitz]

Does it really matter if it overtakes the DS?

I know it will only get worse when the Wii and PS3 come out but I don't understand all this console sales crap. Who really cares who finishes first, second, or third? What matters most is making sure Nintendo, Sony, and M$ are doing well enough to make another console. When we have competition, we all win.

This is coming from someone who thinks the XBox and the 360 are worthless. However, I wouldn't want M$ to stop making consoles.

[integralsmatic]

the psp outselling the DS at this point is like the Philly Eagles accepting TO back to the team. it cant happen. this is just history repeating itself but now in the handheld market. the DS is like an Apple IPOD. people want it,its affordable,and its popular. its still worse than a creative Zen but somehow it outsells the Zen by over a couple million. the PSP has better hardware but the DS is cheaper,more fun games, and on top of that the games are cheaper than the PSPs. i hated it how i paid 40-50 bucks for a PSP game when i only paid 30-35 for a great game. IMO i think the price of the games scared potential buyeers away from the system. i have a PSP and DS. My PSP is gaining dust while the DS is getting all attention. there is so much of tekken i could on it..and on the DS im litterally hooked on games like Trauma Center and Phoenix Wright. Companies should know what they are getting into when they enter the handheld market. Nintendo knocks off any new opponent that enters the market. the GBC/GBA did in the Neo Geo Pocket, game.com,wonderswan,game gear..to name a few. Sony should have known what they were up against as in a Sales aspect. they should know that their competitor owns most of the market share. if it overall made them money its a victoy to them.

[epobirs]

It could be argued that the PSP is too powerful for its own good. Sony sought to define a new category for handheld game hardware and software. The approach had merit but hasn't stood up to realworld testing.

Developers are in a difficult position. Creating original content for the PSP that fully exploits its capability (or at least the two-thirds they're allowed) can cost nearly as much as a comparable project for the PS2. The PS2 can far more reliably deliver the audience needed to be assured of at least breaking even on the project if isn't an utter turkey. They can split the difference by creating ports of PS2 projects those lack the same allure as something truly unique to the platform. A portion of the market will favor the portable version but not enough to reach the numbers needed.

Sony might have been better off producing a less powerful machine with a significantly lower price point. It would remain a stronger 3D system than the DS with a much better display resolution but with a price point closer to what the mass market expects for a handheld, with software pricing to match.

Considering that in most cases the PSP is only operating at 222 MHz due to battery life issues, perhaps it would have been better to target that performance level from the beginning. This is one area where Nintendo has the right formula. They've always required battery life to meet a minimum duration before allowing performance to be increased in the design phase.

The UMD is not inherently a bad thing but they could have done much to overcome the loading issues by supporting flash memory caching from the beginning. (If ever.) The UMD movie business could have been a fine sideline if they had been realistic and treated it a lesser product to the DVD and priced accordingly. Nothing over $10. This would mean that many releases would wait until long after the DVD version before the UMD appeared but would that really be a severe handicap? The nature of the product is such that users are likely to focus on items they can wait over and over again. Unless Sony partnered with the big rental chains, there wasn't that much need for day and date simulataneous UMD and DVD realeses.

[cps2's-appleidog]

The only way Sony could win now if Nintendo threw in the towel and left the handheld and console market, Nintendo Are the masters of handheld's we were playing basically playing on graphics that were 1986 graphics right up to 2001, and look how many better graphics machines tried to stop it

Game gear
Turbo express
Game.com (never stood a chance lol )
Neo geo pocket/Color
Lynx 1/2

And the Gameboy still smashed.

Same with the gba but not as much competition there was
Gamepark 32

And with the DS
there is
Gpx2
And Psp

Now all the machines ive mentioned were graphically well maybe gpx2 werent but the rest were much more advanced machines but nintendo still left all those companies basically bankrupt

[depascal22]

I don't like movies on my PSP anyway. I've never watched a movie on my PSP, even the free copy of Spider Man 2. It's not bad to play a game that was meant to be on a tiny screen but movies were never made to be watched on such a small screen.

[Thomas96]

The war is over. It has been over for a while now.

There's lots of problems in your argument. Namely, you're thinking the PSP is going to somehow gain enough support to then overtake the DS in terms of game library (quantity wise, not necessarily quality wise). This won't happen for a lot of reasons, namely that the DS is too far ahead in Japan where the majority of developers are.

Also, as we've seen with the GBA/GC, connectivity between a console and it's portable counterpart is never a system seller. Never. It doesn't help that the best Sony has shown is a rearview mirror in GTA HD, which absolutely no one gives a shit about. Not to mention that the PS3 will actually pull attention away from the PSP. All Sony is doing to counter this is releasing an emulator, and frankly, that's not enough to keep people at bay, interested, or attract enough new blood. It'll bring some and salvage some, but it's a bandaid on a cracked skull.

You're moving into early stages of delusion, brought upon by refusal.

As epobirs pointed out, it can't even make money for Sony, let alone take on the DS. That's the problem here. One of their big moneymakers (UMD) is dead, and the software isn't moving as quickly as should be needed for profit.

It's not going to happen.



so the only thing the psp can do is be a rear view mirror... because if played, mp3s, movies, games, goes on line (out the box), has gps, camera, uses the ps3 as a location free player where you can access your content, and finally has games that when done right, the DS will NEVER be able to match (ex. Tekken DR, Grand Theft Auto, Lcs, and VCS,) nobody gives a shit about all that. wouldn't it be nice to pick plays in Madden from your psp, (while playing the ps3 version), or using it as a map display, or car radio during GTAIV. The psp is going to be a nice cheap option to develop for, if you don't want to do ps3...
It's so funny how DS fans, want to end the fight, lets see how Killzone, Metal Gear Solid, Gunpey, Lumines II, Vice City stories; lets see how some of these blockbuster games do...

.. tell konami make a Castlevania symphony of the Night II for the psp... (and watch all the DS fanboys get angry),

what new games does the DS have coming out?

[depascal22]

Why would they go through all the work of making a sequel to SotN when they're just going to emulate the original? By the time they get around to making a sequel, the PSP might be dead.

[Strell]

so the only thing the psp can do is be a rear view mirror... because if played, mp3s, movies, games, goes on line (out the box), has gps, camera, uses the ps3 as a location free player where you can access your content, and finally has games that when done right, the DS will NEVER be able to match (ex. Tekken DR, Grand Theft Auto, Lcs, and VCS,) nobody gives a shit about all that. wouldn't it be nice to pick plays in Madden from your psp, (while playing the ps3 version), or using it as a map display, or car radio during GTAIV. The psp is going to be a nice cheap option to develop for, if you don't want to do ps3...
It's so funny how DS fans, want to end the fight, lets see how Killzone, Metal Gear Solid, Gunpey, Lumines II, Vice City stories; lets see how some of these blockbuster games do...

.. tell konami make a Castlevania symphony of the Night II for the psp... (and watch all the DS fanboys get angry),

what new games does the DS have coming out?

Again I say you are delusional, and possibly need a few remedial reading classes.

I never said it only is a rear-view mirror, but that is the only thing they've showcased as far as interaction with the PS3 goes. I'm sure there's more things in the works - definitely media capabilities - but from a gameplay standpoint, it's weak. And it's weak because it is in the beginning stages. But you don't trot out a high powered machine and then tack on a me-too experience with it's handheld little brother and wow people.

Now if they had said something else, we'd be at a different juncture. And since they will say more things as time goes on, we will get there soon enough.

However, this is Sony's first real attempt at such a thing (the little memory card portable thing from years back notwithstanding), and as such they have a lot to learn. As they have learned with the PSP, you can't just throw a bunch of high powered machinery together and forget the small things such as battery life and high profile games from third parties.

You keep clinging to this "well it can do games the DS can't ever do." You're right. It can't. And the DS can do the same. So unless you want me to sound "fanboyish" and list games and reasons why the DS can perform gamewise as well as the PSP, you need to realize they are different experiences. If I were acting like a fanboy in this thread, there is where I'd pull out "Omfg, Trauma Centers is teh rocks, where is that on yur PSP?" And other such nonsense.

In reality the PSP caters to the PS2 crowd with a bunch of big name console like games like Daxter, where as the DS is attacking a completely different crowd. How well you think those strategies work independently relies on how much you want to pit the systems directly head to head, or compare their userbases. Both of those are pretty unreliable, as the tangible evidence can't overcome personal, relative experience. In other words, the DS has a larger user base, but that doesn't make it better if the person in question just wants to play Monster Hunter on the go.

The options you go on to highlight - picking plays in Madden, using it as a map in racing games, etc - have already been done by Nintendo. In fact, more has been done already with the GBA/GC, but as we have seen, no one really gave a shit. In fact, it was universally denounced as one of the worst things Nintendo tried to pull off. Whereas you are trumpeting them as gaming innovations and remarkable ideas, Nintendo already went down that road, and no one cared. And this is with a userbase that is equivalent to double the PSP and DS combined. 'Course, it requires the other half - that being the console - and it was universally thought that a GBA owner probably owned a GC, or vice versa. But that proved false - it was merely idealistic.

GTA has already failed to spur sales as we've seen, and half the people who were interested in it just waited for the PS2 version. Lumines is nice. Gunpey, unless I'm mistaken, is coming to the GBA or DS as well. MGS might be a big seller but it's difficult to tell.

Konami already made C:SOTN 2. It was called Dawn of Sorrows, it was on the DS, and the sequel is heading to the DS as well in about a month or so. And here's a history lesson for you - Iga (the head director of the C series) hates 2D. Hates it. And he hates making them for portable systems. The only reason he does it is because his 3D incarnations have tanked (both in sales and general gameplay) because his team apparently can't figure it the f*ck out. Only recently has he even admitted that 2D has life left in it, contradicting the last 4-5 years of him saying over and over about how "3D is totally awesome." In other words, understand Iga can (and will) only make 1 2D game at a time. I'm sure there's always a possibility, but I highly, highly doubt it.

As for your last comment, that's just pathetic. That's easily the most fanboy thing said in this thread. I'd count the number of games coming out, but you'll dismiss them I'm sure.

You keep defending your thoughts with "well the DS fanboys this and the DS fanboys that" when the ironic thing is that you keep spitting out tons of fanboy propoganda. Continue to hold onto the hope that the PSP is going to overtake the DS, and I'll continue to hold out on the GC outselling the PS2. Or hell, the Xbox for that matter.

[jkam]

Sony did what they always do. They throw a bunch of specs in a package and then worry about the rest of it later. Battery life, load times, controls, and games should have been top on the priority list. It is pretty obvious that these weren't. I do play my PSP from time to time and I do find it annoying how often I need to charge it. I find the load times annoying and end up buying most of the games based on the ones that have very little.... which in the end limits what games I will buy. The controls work well for some games but others they are a complete mess which also limit what I'll buy.

Sony has been trying to shove memory sticks down our throats for years...so if they are so great why not give us games on em? Yes UMD is a lot more cost effective but we all know which work out better in a handheld. Memory stick caching would have been a good idea as well.

I know some believe that the PSP wasn't up against the DS because the specs were completely different but in this market its always one against the other. I really believe that Nintendo finally is starting to look beyond the curve where as Sony's game is to steal ideas that have been used and proven to work. They didn't do that in the same way as they did with the PS2 and it shows. DS wins.

[furyk]

so the only thing the psp can do is be a rear view mirror... because if played, mp3s, movies, games, goes on line (out the box), has gps, camera, uses the ps3 as a location free player where you can access your content, and finally has games that when done right, the DS will NEVER be able to match (ex. Tekken DR, Grand Theft Auto, Lcs, and VCS,) nobody gives a shit about all that. wouldn't it be nice to pick plays in Madden from your psp, (while playing the ps3 version), or using it as a map display, or car radio during GTAIV. The psp is going to be a nice cheap option to develop for, if you don't want to do ps3...
It's so funny how DS fans, want to end the fight, lets see how Killzone, Metal Gear Solid, Gunpey, Lumines II, Vice City stories; lets see how some of these blockbuster games do...

.. tell konami make a Castlevania symphony of the Night II for the psp... (and watch all the DS fanboys get angry),

what new games does the DS have coming out?

Well... Gunpey for one :)

Beyond that though, Castlevania: Potrait of Ruin (aka Symphony of the Night's spiritual successor), Yoshi's Island 2, Phoenix Wright 2, Pokemon Diamond and Pearl, Elite Beat Agents (US Ouendan), Pokemon Ranger, Final Fantasy III, Winning Eleven, Kirby Squeak Squad, and a plethora more of games. Each one of those games sans Winning Eleven has nothing comperable to it this generation on home consoles. Every game you've mentioned (with the exception of Gunpey which isn't a system seller), GTA, Luminese, Metal Gear, etc etc will be playable on the PS2 in some form by the end of the year.

It doesn't matter what the PSP can do at this point. Until Sony is able to sell people on the games the DS will continuiously beat the shit out of the PSP. It's not that DS fans want to end the fight. The fight has ended, and you're just unwilling to recognize that it's over.

Furthermore the original IPs besides Luminese for the PSP have failed to catch on. Loco Roco flopped in the US saleswise, and WTF is considered almost universally inferior to the Wario Ware franchise. Even games that take things in a different direction like Ac!d are plagued with their limited appeal despite being good games. A game like Phoenix Wright gets a cult following because it's something nobody has heard of that has a limited but passionate audience. Any passion that the public would feel about MGA is undone simply because it's such a departure from the core series that only would appeal to a small audience if the MGS liscence isn't attached.

Oh and Killzone is pretty crappy for the PSP if the demo is any indication. It's Metal Gear Jr....

Plus Trauma Center does R0xs Strell. You best recognize Strell.

[Thomas96]

Again I say you are delusional, and possibly need a few remedial reading classes.

I never said it only is a rear-view mirror, but that is the only thing they've showcased as far as interaction with the PS3 goes. I'm sure there's more things in the works - definitely media capabilities - but from a gameplay standpoint, it's weak. And it's weak because it is in the beginning stages. But you don't trot out a high powered machine and then tack on a me-too experience with it's handheld little brother and wow people.

Now if they had said something else, we'd be at a different juncture. And since they will say more things as time goes on, we will get there soon enough.

However, this is Sony's first real attempt at such a thing (the little memory card portable thing from years back notwithstanding), and as such they have a lot to learn. As they have learned with the PSP, you can't just throw a bunch of high powered machinery together and forget the small things such as battery life and high profile games from third parties.

You keep clinging to this "well it can do games the DS can't ever do." You're right. It can't. And the DS can do the same. So unless you want me to sound "fanboyish" and list games and reasons why the DS can perform gamewise as well as the PSP, you need to realize they are different experiences. If I were acting like a fanboy in this thread, there is where I'd pull out "Omfg, Trauma Centers is teh rocks, where is that on yur PSP?" And other such nonsense.

In reality the PSP caters to the PS2 crowd with a bunch of big name console like games like Daxter, where as the DS is attacking a completely different crowd. How well you think those strategies work independently relies on how much you want to pit the systems directly head to head, or compare their userbases. Both of those are pretty unreliable, as the tangible evidence can't overcome personal, relative experience. In other words, the DS has a larger user base, but that doesn't make it better if the person in question just wants to play Monster Hunter on the go.

The options you go on to highlight - picking plays in Madden, using it as a map in racing games, etc - have already been done by Nintendo. In fact, more has been done already with the GBA/GC, but as we have seen, no one really gave a shit. In fact, it was universally denounced as one of the worst things Nintendo tried to pull off. Whereas you are trumpeting them as gaming innovations and remarkable ideas, Nintendo already went down that road, and no one cared. And this is with a userbase that is equivalent to double the PSP and DS combined. 'Course, it requires the other half - that being the console - and it was universally thought that a GBA owner probably owned a GC, or vice versa. But that proved false - it was merely idealistic.

GTA has already failed to spur sales as we've seen, and half the people who were interested in it just waited for the PS2 version. Lumines is nice. Gunpey, unless I'm mistaken, is coming to the GBA or DS as well. MGS might be a big seller but it's difficult to tell.

Konami already made C:SOTN 2. It was called Dawn of Sorrows, it was on the DS, and the sequel is heading to the DS as well in about a month or so. And here's a history lesson for you - Iga (the head director of the C series) hates 2D. Hates it. And he hates making them for portable systems. The only reason he does it is because his 3D incarnations have tanked (both in sales and general gameplay) because his team apparently can't figure it the f*ck out. Only recently has he even admitted that 2D has life left in it, contradicting the last 4-5 years of him saying over and over about how "3D is totally awesome." In other words, understand Iga can (and will) only make 1 2D game at a time. I'm sure there's always a possibility, but I highly, highly doubt it.

As for your last comment, that's just pathetic. That's easily the most fanboy thing said in this thread. I'd count the number of games coming out, but you'll dismiss them I'm sure.

You keep defending your thoughts with "well the DS fanboys this and the DS fanboys that" when the ironic thing is that you keep spitting out tons of fanboy propoganda. Continue to hold onto the hope that the PSP is going to overtake the DS, and I'll continue to hold out on the GC outselling the PS2. Or hell, the Xbox for that matter.

Thanks for reading and writing classes even us college grads need a refresher course... hey you love the DS yet, you're in a PSP group thread... I know you like the PSP, and that's why you're here. Granted the psp could do some things better, and it may never beat the DS, but in actuality, it's a great handheld system.

p.s. please proofread all of my postings around cag.com.

[Thomas96]

Again I say you are delusional, and possibly need a few remedial reading classes.

I never said it only is a rear-view mirror, but that is the only thing they've showcased as far as interaction with the PS3 goes. I'm sure there's more things in the works - definitely media capabilities - but from a gameplay standpoint, it's weak. And it's weak because it is in the beginning stages. But you don't trot out a high powered machine and then tack on a me-too experience with it's handheld little brother and wow people.

Now if they had said something else, we'd be at a different juncture. And since they will say more things as time goes on, we will get there soon enough.

However, this is Sony's first real attempt at such a thing (the little memory card portable thing from years back notwithstanding), and as such they have a lot to learn. As they have learned with the PSP, you can't just throw a bunch of high powered machinery together and forget the small things such as battery life and high profile games from third parties.

You keep clinging to this "well it can do games the DS can't ever do." You're right. It can't. And the DS can do the same. So unless you want me to sound "fanboyish" and list games and reasons why the DS can perform gamewise as well as the PSP, you need to realize they are different experiences. If I were acting like a fanboy in this thread, there is where I'd pull out "Omfg, Trauma Centers is teh rocks, where is that on yur PSP?" And other such nonsense.

In reality the PSP caters to the PS2 crowd with a bunch of big name console like games like Daxter, where as the DS is attacking a completely different crowd. How well you think those strategies work independently relies on how much you want to pit the systems directly head to head, or compare their userbases. Both of those are pretty unreliable, as the tangible evidence can't overcome personal, relative experience. In other words, the DS has a larger user base, but that doesn't make it better if the person in question just wants to play Monster Hunter on the go.

The options you go on to highlight - picking plays in Madden, using it as a map in racing games, etc - have already been done by Nintendo. In fact, more has been done already with the GBA/GC, but as we have seen, no one really gave a shit. In fact, it was universally denounced as one of the worst things Nintendo tried to pull off. Whereas you are trumpeting them as gaming innovations and remarkable ideas, Nintendo already went down that road, and no one cared. And this is with a userbase that is equivalent to double the PSP and DS combined. 'Course, it requires the other half - that being the console - and it was universally thought that a GBA owner probably owned a GC, or vice versa. But that proved false - it was merely idealistic.

GTA has already failed to spur sales as we've seen, and half the people who were interested in it just waited for the PS2 version. Lumines is nice. Gunpey, unless I'm mistaken, is coming to the GBA or DS as well. MGS might be a big seller but it's difficult to tell.

Konami already made C:SOTN 2. It was called Dawn of Sorrows, it was on the DS, and the sequel is heading to the DS as well in about a month or so. And here's a history lesson for you - Iga (the head director of the C series) hates 2D. Hates it. And he hates making them for portable systems. The only reason he does it is because his 3D incarnations have tanked (both in sales and general gameplay) because his team apparently can't figure it the f*ck out. Only recently has he even admitted that 2D has life left in it, contradicting the last 4-5 years of him saying over and over about how "3D is totally awesome." In other words, understand Iga can (and will) only make 1 2D game at a time. I'm sure there's always a possibility, but I highly, highly doubt it.

As for your last comment, that's just pathetic. That's easily the most fanboy thing said in this thread. I'd count the number of games coming out, but you'll dismiss them I'm sure.

You keep defending your thoughts with "well the DS fanboys this and the DS fanboys that" when the ironic thing is that you keep spitting out tons of fanboy propoganda. Continue to hold onto the hope that the PSP is going to overtake the DS, and I'll continue to hold out on the GC outselling the PS2. Or hell, the Xbox for that matter.




gameplay weak on the psp - I don't think so... the only difference between the psp and the ds are the amount of games the DS gets, and the touch screen.

It's not sony's fault that they aren't getting great games from third parties, it's their own faults, for trying to use the PSP as a ps2 port.


The DS isn't attacking Nintendo fans with their mario kart, pokemon, metroid fustion, and pinball, Mario, Yoshi, Mario 64, Star Fox DS, games that happen to be strong Nintendo franchises. - I'm saying this in resonse to you saying that "
In reality the PSP caters to the PS2 crowd with a bunch of big name console like games like Daxter, where as the DS is attacking a completely different crowd."



"Whereas you are trumpeting them as gaming innovations and remarkable ideas" I never said that, I was only giving suggestions about some benefits to having the psp work with the ps3. Not many games worked with the ds,or gameboy advance, and I don't remember a madden on any nintendo system that worked with any gameboy or ds system. If I'm wrong please list what version (year) of madden had that feature.



"GTA has already failed to spur sales as we've seen, and half the people who were interested in it just waited for the PS2 version. Lumines is nice. Gunpey, unless I'm mistaken, is coming to the GBA or DS as well. MGS might be a big seller but it's difficult to tell"

games that fail don't get sequels (re: GTA LCS), and the psp version was better as you could add your own soundtrack to the game, another feature that isn't availabe for any game on the DS, and on the ps2.



"Konami already made C:SOTN 2. It was called Dawn of Sorrows, it was on the DS, and the sequel is heading to the DS as well in about a month or so. And here's a history lesson for you - Iga (the head director of the C series) hates 2D. Hates it. And he hates making them for portable systems. The only reason he does it is because his 3D incarnations have tanked (both in sales and general gameplay) because his team apparently can't figure it the f*ck out. Only recently has he even admitted that 2D has life left in it, contradicting the last 4-5 years of him saying over and over about how "3D is totally awesome." In other words, understand Iga can (and will) only make 1 2D game at a time. I'm sure there's always a possibility, but I highly, highly doubt it."

I like the lesson, but where are your references, where did you read that the head director of the C series hates 2d? The DS has been very fortunate in having at least 4 2d Castlevania games, and if that was true, then Konami wouldn't have put pressure on Sony when the ps1 was released to do Symphony of the Night, and if you can remember, at the time that Sotn was released, Sony was not interested in having 2d games on their Playstation system. Iga - I guess referring to Koji Igarashi, who in an interview w/ gamasutra on aug 2005, said that he loves 2d games, and that he'd love to make a 2d game for any system/console even the psp. (here's the ref: http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20050815/sheffield_01.shtml) and stop saying lies to give the illusion what you say is true.


The main thing is, I love my psp, (don't get me wrong I love the ds, and my original b&w gameboy) I just want it to get some good games and give birth to new franchises like Lumines, and hopefully many more.. the psp probably won't outsell the DS(overall) but damn, lets give the PSP some big guns and let it do what it do... give us a new exclusive Castlevania(2d), a new 2d streets of rage, or Shadow dancer... etc. Just give it something to fight with.. Einhander... maybe I'll play that next month!!!


you hating on the PSP, but the truth is... you LOVE the psp.

[Strell]

It's like two different people just posted one after another.

Two very special people.

[Thomas96]

Well... Gunpey for one :)

Beyond that though, Castlevania: Potrait of Ruin (aka Symphony of the Night's spiritual successor), Yoshi's Island 2, Phoenix Wright 2, Pokemon Diamond and Pearl, Elite Beat Agents (US Ouendan), Pokemon Ranger, Final Fantasy III, Winning Eleven, Kirby Squeak Squad, and a plethora more of games. Each one of those games sans Winning Eleven has nothing comperable to it this generation on home consoles. Every game you've mentioned (with the exception of Gunpey which isn't a system seller), GTA, Luminese, Metal Gear, etc etc will be playable on the PS2 in some form by the end of the year.

It doesn't matter what the PSP can do at this point. Until Sony is able to sell people on the games the DS will continuiously beat the shit out of the PSP. It's not that DS fans want to end the fight. The fight has ended, and you're just unwilling to recognize that it's over.

Furthermore the original IPs besides Luminese for the PSP have failed to catch on. Loco Roco flopped in the US saleswise, and WTF is considered almost universally inferior to the Wario Ware franchise. Even games that take things in a different direction like Ac!d are plagued with their limited appeal despite being good games. A game like Phoenix Wright gets a cult following because it's something nobody has heard of that has a limited but passionate audience. Any passion that the public would feel about MGA is undone simply because it's such a departure from the core series that only would appeal to a small audience if the MGS liscence isn't attached.

Oh and Killzone is pretty crappy for the PSP if the demo is any indication. It's Metal Gear Jr....

Plus Trauma Center does R0xs Strell. You best recognize Strell.


















the DS has the same flare that the ps1 had during it's hey day. They have a great library and innovative games, that are just fun, I bought the DS for new super mario (and star fox, which wasn't even out yet), and I've been wanting to play phonix wright, and trauma center real bad! Those games are great titles, the kind of titles that you get when you have a good user base cause developers aren't affraid to take chances with the system.

These are the type of games I want to see on the psp - Locoroco! The variety that the psp has is just ps2 ports and that's not fair to the system, and I think that developers should make more new games, like lumines. I think that sony has done their part with the psp, it's really up to the game developers now, sony has no control over what games are made for the system. Plus it's not like sony has the benefit of first party titles to help push the system, they're almost totally dependent on third party titles. And it's not fair to call a game crappy (killzone) based on a short demo, and some people say it's pretty good...

at this point what harm is it, for some developer to give the psp something decent like pheonix wright, something fresh, instead of damn ports - parapper, gitaroo man, the warriors, family guy, spider man 2, etc.


basically, instead of saying the fight is over, I want to give the psp some great games and lets just see what impact it has on the market... what I'm starting to see is that DS fans (not you) don't like that, and don't want to see that... and I'm wondering now.. why is that? what are they worried about if a couple of decent games are released on a system that they considered dead and beaten? I wonder.....

[furyk]

basically, instead of saying the fight is over, I want to give the psp some great games and lets just see what impact it has on the market... what I'm starting to see is that DS fans (not you) don't like that, and don't want to see that... and I'm wondering now.. why is that? what are they worried about if a couple of decent games are released on a system that they considered dead and beaten? I wonder.....

Well let's be fair here for a second. You start a thread asking whether or not the PSP can catch the DS, and then get upset when people say that the PSP can't catch the DS? It's simply a statement of fact at the moment. The DS is insumountable in Japan and has been outselling the PSP by a fair margin (100,000+ units last month) since the release of the Lite. To claim conspiracy about people wanting to see the PSP dead in the water because they know that if it got more developer support it'd catch right up ignores what has happened so far. EA has essentially said they were shifting focus away from the PSP as has a number of other developers in favor of the DS. Almost all of the big Sony franchises, excluding Final Fantasy, Gran Turismo, and Ratchet and Clank, have appeared on the system but none of them have been incredibly impactful, sans GTA which sold around a million PSPs in the US alone. The PSP isn't dead in the water, but there are certainly enough sharks circling to call this fight for Nintendo.

If you want to understand why so many people want to bury the PSP, look at the facts. First off, new handhelds always take a ton of heat if they're not from an established handheld maker. Furthermore, this doubles each time there's a major issue with the system (battery life, brightness issues, bad game format, inability to insert games without unscrewing the system, cost, ugly design sidetalking, etc). The burden of proof always falls on the system even if it's from an established developer. Nobody gave the DS a pass at first because the GBA was a great system. The final thing is that a significant portion of gamers are fed up with Sony. Sony comes out with insane statements in press conferences, their systems almost always have significant issues out of the gate, they're exceptionally arrogant, and their systems have recently started using expensive propritary formats. People don't want to bury the PSP because it's the PSP. People want to bury the PSP because it's the Sony PSP.

I want to see great games on the PSP too. I just doubt that with it's current market penetration and positioning, most third party developers would rather gravitate to the DS, especially if they're based in Japan.

Plus, lay off on the whole "Only PSP owners should post in PSP threads" especially when this question directly addresses Nintendo.

[mykevermin]

I think two things could help the PSP:

1) Cheaper software. I grumble when I've gotta pay $35 for a DS title, so $50 sez to me "no fucking way." I'm looking at roughly half my PSP titles at the moment (8 games). I paid more than $20 for 3 of them: Liberty City Stories ($40), Valkyrie Profile ($40), and Suikoden 1&2 ($55? $60? It's not comin' here anyway, so I justified that expense that way). I'd love to play Vice City Stories, but I'll wait until it hits $30 (which will be inevitable during the holidays). I just can't reason with paying $50 for a portable title. I've been buying portable games since the Game Boy, and $30 is my sticking point. As a consumer, I don't see the PSP as being above the DS, or vice versa; I know Sony tries to justify its high title prices this way, but they're seeing things through a lens that this consumer, at the very least, does not. The Super NES/Genesis wars wouldn't have been shit if SNES titles were $15-20 more than Genesis ones.

2) The plethora of bullshit games. Go look at a PSP display at a TRU, or EB, or GS. What do you see? Legend of Heroes, Blade Dancer, Astonishing Story, and a bunch of other "let's throw it at a wall and see what sticks" titles. If they were more particular about what comes out for it, then I'd be more interested in seeing what the PSP has to offer. I can't bear to look at PSP games in a store for this reason; it's like your shopping for Jaguar titles: you can choose between dogshit A or dogshit B, but you're less likely to come across a title that you genuinely want to play. Massively disappointing counterparts to console games (Scarface and Godfather come to mind) don't help either.

They could also spend less time fighting the homebrew scene (though they have every right to include firmware updates that block access to iso loaders and the like), and start doing the goddamned PS1 downloads. Get on with it, already. Besides, I'm almost done with Phoenix Wright, so I need something new to play.

[furyk]

In fairness, the average new PSP title costs around $40 these days. The collections are still ten dollars too expensive in my opinion, but I think $40 is a fair price for a PSP game.

[CrimsonPaw]

Well, there's a LOT of reading in this thread, so I'll add my quick $0.02. The DS is targeting a different audience than the PSP is. The DS, and the Wii, are trying to get the casual gamer who doesn't want to fork out an arm and a leg for a system, but still want something that's entertaining.

If Jim is heading to a conference half way across the country and he is looking to get a portable gaming system, he will most likely say "I can fork our $150 for this DS and a game, maybe my girlfriend/wife/kids would use it too. Aww, look, Nintendogs; she/they would like that. Metroid Prime looks kinda cool, I'll wait."

The PSP, on the other hand, was designed to market those people who like the gadgets and are not opposed to the leading edge. Hence why the thing plays movies, mp3s, has built in location-free player, built in Wi-Fi, Internet browser, etc. The thing is marketed to appease us techy-dweebs and not the casual gamer who isn't going to plop down $250 for a system and still need to buy a game.

If Sony wants a better marketshare they should drop the price of the system down to be more competative in price to the DS. I'm not saying that the PSP needs to be $129, but it should be $150 to even come close to being a real threat.

As for the games, anymore it seems that $40 is the standard "new release" price point. The only $50 game I see, or have seen for that matter, is the GTA series; and in all honesty, the $10 isn't going to effect the sales that much. With a library that's a year and a half old, the greatest hits line, and decent titles reaching the $20 price point; this combined with the Sony Digital Distribution and the PS3 cross-functionality (for those 18 people who will get a PS3 this year) would set Sony up for some real success if they were to lower the price of the unit.

All-in-all, I think that the PSP will never overtake the DS; then again I don't think the DS will ever overtake the PSP. Both systems are great at what they're designed to do and honestly I think the market is big enough for both of them.

[urzishra14]

First thing first, I don't own a PSP I do however own a DS and I was given the opportunity to try both out and make a sound educated decsion.

1) I don't need Movies on my gaming system. Not that I wouldn't like it, I wish they weren't the same price as DVDs which are highly superior products, they are too much money for what they are. I also wish there was more of a price difference between them.

2) I don't need to buy music in UMD form, seeing these on the shelves just made me wonder, who actually buys this crap?

3) stop rehashing PS2/console games and put out an original title. I look at the PSP section and I can't find a game I'm interested in that I haven't already played on my PS2, the majority of my gaming is done at home or while i'm doing laundry. I love my DS because it is easy to get in and out of a game (minimal load times, i don't even notice them) I can't even imagine waiting 2 minutes for screens to load, that would piss me off.

4) no internal memory source, I would buy a PSP if it had the means to save music/game saves on the system itself. but it doesn't so I have to either juggle music and game saves on the small included memory or shell out more money for another memory stick or two. This is a great design flaw, my ds has catridge save which comes in mighty handy.

5) why does this thing cost so much? more capable Ipods cost less than this thing. and it just seems cheap for me to hold it. I've seen display units at stores (while i know this isn't the standard but..) most of them the analog nub thing is broken off. that in turn tells me it can't handle hardcore gameplay that it might (and probably will) break long before its time is due.

As a gamer, I'm not interested in puzzle games, as a matter of fact I wish there were less puzzle games for portable systems they are getting old..

6) the price point for games, looking around you can get DS games for about 15 bucks for some pretty awesome titles.. you can't say the same for the PSP, of the greatest hits games I think only Twisted Metal is the only game worth playing. And I really wasn't interested in that since the last 40 sequels have came and went for that.

7) ooo the internet on the PSP, the internet is best suited for a laptop or desktop computer, a keyboard DOES matter and its not very fun to look at webpages on such a small screen. I don't need my PSP to get on the net, as the majority of my time is spent where the internet and computers are readily available I don't need, (i had a pocket PC that went on the net and it sucked) and its not that particularly engaging to look at.

I'm not saying that the PSP doesn't have its upsides, but from my standpoint the biggest issue for me is the price and the price of games.. my ds just has better games (for me anyways, i love gba games too ) that buying a PSP would just never get any play from me.

[icruise]

5) and it just seems cheap for me to hold it. I've seen display units at stores (while i know this isn't the standard but..) most of them the analog nub thing is broken off. that in turn tells me it can't handle hardcore gameplay that it might (and probably will) break long before its time is due.

What that should tell you is that there are a lot of jerks who like to go around breaking display models. This happens with all sorts of things, not just the PSP. It's just that the analog nub is easy to break off if you try (it is replaceable, though).

Honestly, I don't think the PSP is much more fragile than the DS. The PSP has the exposed screen and UMD door, but the DS has the touch screen (encouraging scratches) and the hinge. It's a wash.

[depascal22]

I have both systems and they both seem sturdy enough.

I don't understand why Sony takes heat for leaning on their franchises while Nintendo uses their franchises like an old crutch. I'm not saying that I like any of the ports but I don't fault Sony for trying to make a buck. They are a business after all.

[LostRoad]

Why do you even care? Better yet, why does anyone even care?

[CrimsonPaw]

First thing first, I don't own a PSP I do however own a DS and I was given the opportunity to try both out and make a sound educated decsion.

1) I don't need Movies on my gaming system. Not that I wouldn't like it, I wish they weren't the same price as DVDs which are highly superior products, they are too much money for what they are. I also wish there was more of a price difference between them.

2) I don't need to buy music in UMD form, seeing these on the shelves just made me wonder, who actually buys this crap?

3) stop rehashing PS2/console games and put out an original title. I look at the PSP section and I can't find a game I'm interested in that I haven't already played on my PS2, the majority of my gaming is done at home or while i'm doing laundry. I love my DS because it is easy to get in and out of a game (minimal load times, i don't even notice them) I can't even imagine waiting 2 minutes for screens to load, that would piss me off.

4) no internal memory source, I would buy a PSP if it had the means to save music/game saves on the system itself. but it doesn't so I have to either juggle music and game saves on the small included memory or shell out more money for another memory stick or two. This is a great design flaw, my ds has catridge save which comes in mighty handy.

5) why does this thing cost so much? more capable Ipods cost less than this thing. and it just seems cheap for me to hold it. I've seen display units at stores (while i know this isn't the standard but..) most of them the analog nub thing is broken off. that in turn tells me it can't handle hardcore gameplay that it might (and probably will) break long before its time is due.

As a gamer, I'm not interested in puzzle games, as a matter of fact I wish there were less puzzle games for portable systems they are getting old..

6) the price point for games, looking around you can get DS games for about 15 bucks for some pretty awesome titles.. you can't say the same for the PSP, of the greatest hits games I think only Twisted Metal is the only game worth playing. And I really wasn't interested in that since the last 40 sequels have came and went for that.

7) ooo the internet on the PSP, the internet is best suited for a laptop or desktop computer, a keyboard DOES matter and its not very fun to look at webpages on such a small screen. I don't need my PSP to get on the net, as the majority of my time is spent where the internet and computers are readily available I don't need, (i had a pocket PC that went on the net and it sucked) and its not that particularly engaging to look at.

I'm not saying that the PSP doesn't have its upsides, but from my standpoint the biggest issue for me is the price and the price of games.. my ds just has better games (for me anyways, i love gba games too ) that buying a PSP would just never get any play from me.
Well, that's good that you had a chance to try them both out. Being an owner of both systems, I can honestly say that you don't know what you're talking about.
1) I agree, the UMD movies are a freaking joke. I'm more interrested in taking my current DVD library and moving over to the PSP. I wish the compression was better, but then again movies aren't why I bought the system.

2) Good question, I guess I've never seen music UMDs before. Hell, for the price one would spend on two of those you can get a 1GB Memory Stick Duo Pro to save your MP3s on, which is the preferred method.

3) One could argue the same of the DS; granted the DS has originals (Kirby and Trauma Center come to mine) but so does the PSP (LocoRoco and Syphon Filter are examples). I mean, Mario Kart's original content would equate to GTA:LCSs; New Super Mario Brothers to Socom FireTeam Bravo. As for load times, initially they suck, but most people have found that they stick to one game for a while and use the suspend function. Coming back into a game takes about 5 - 10 seconds.

4) Yeah it doesn't have an internal memory source, but with a fairly cheap memory card (mentioned above) you can save your game without the saved data on the game itself, not sure I would call this a flaw. This is the same save technique that's used on the home consoles (PS2 has memory cards, GC has memory cards, PS1 had memory cards).

5) Capable IPODS, you're joking right? There's a crap-ton of tech in this device. Have you seen the games on it? Syphon Filter, Gun Showdown, hell, even the Killzone Demo are extremely impressive. As for it feeling cheap, I don't think you can use the demo units at Best Buy as a basis for this claim. A device that is tied down to a stand is going to feel bad. The analog nub has kept up with me and I play mine probably 10 hours or more a week.

5.1) Puzzle games ... yeah, there's a lot more than just puzzle games for the PSP, take a gander chief.

6) I have no idea what you're trying to say. I've gotten many games for under $20 new for the PSP. Scour EBay and you'll find decent games at very competative prices. Granted, some titles take a while to drop in price, but it's not like they take 4 years to drop *cough*supermarioadvance2*cough*

7) The internet on the PSP is a joke. Honestly the only reason I use it is because of the Wi-Fi games (which don't need friend codes that stay on the cart) and to download demos or RSS feeds, aside from this it's a slow and worthless feature .... until the Sony Store is made public and I can download FF VII to my PSP.

There you have it, my arguments. Again, I'm not saying that the DS is a bad machine; what I am saying is that your arguments have little to back them up.

[MarkMark]

The ps3 is going to be a big help for the psp for serveral reasons. 1st, now developers can't port ps3 games to it, thus forcing more orginal titles; 2nd ps1 library, and other downloadable games; 3rd accessing ps3 w/ psp; The psp's reemergence is highly contingent on the ps3's success. People talking about the DS already won, and the war is over... I think the war might be just beginning...

perhaps the war of 1812 has also just begun....strell hit it on the money you are delusional

[Thomas96]

Well let's be fair here for a second. You start a thread asking whether or not the PSP can catch the DS, and then get upset when people say that the PSP can't catch the DS? It's simply a statement of fact at the moment. The DS is insumountable in Japan and has been outselling the PSP by a fair margin (100,000+ units last month) since the release of the Lite. To claim conspiracy about people wanting to see the PSP dead in the water because they know that if it got more developer support it'd catch right up ignores what has happened so far. EA has essentially said they were shifting focus away from the PSP as has a number of other developers in favor of the DS. Almost all of the big Sony franchises, excluding Final Fantasy, Gran Turismo, and Ratchet and Clank, have appeared on the system but none of them have been incredibly impactful, sans GTA which sold around a million PSPs in the US alone. The PSP isn't dead in the water, but there are certainly enough sharks circling to call this fight for Nintendo.

If you want to understand why so many people want to bury the PSP, look at the facts. First off, new handhelds always take a ton of heat if they're not from an established handheld maker. Furthermore, this doubles each time there's a major issue with the system (battery life, brightness issues, bad game format, inability to insert games without unscrewing the system, cost, ugly design sidetalking, etc). The burden of proof always falls on the system even if it's from an established developer. Nobody gave the DS a pass at first because the GBA was a great system. The final thing is that a significant portion of gamers are fed up with Sony. Sony comes out with insane statements in press conferences, their systems almost always have significant issues out of the gate, they're exceptionally arrogant, and their systems have recently started using expensive propritary formats. People don't want to bury the PSP because it's the PSP. People want to bury the PSP because it's the Sony PSP.

I want to see great games on the PSP too. I just doubt that with it's current market penetration and positioning, most third party developers would rather gravitate to the DS, especially if they're based in Japan.

Plus, lay off on the whole "Only PSP owners should post in PSP threads" especially when this question directly addresses Nintendo.



I never got upset at anyone about their opinions.. I definitely don't like it when people lie just to make a point, and if you read my comments I said that the psp probably won't catch the DS in total sales.. I'm not looking for the psp to overtake the ds, I just want it to get good games from developers.. and not ports.

Sony made a big mistake w/ the psp... dead pixels.. You expect people to pay high prices, but then there are defects with the system.... The DS is good and that's why it's number one... but let it be number one because of it's and developers accomplishments; not because... people wished the competition dead...

I never said that "only psp owners should post in PSP threads." But I do wonder, why a person who feels that the PSP is dead would even bother to look at a PSP thread; when I posted this I did expect a little more optimism from people. The psp burned it's bridges with gamers... firmware updates... stopping (or trying to) homebrew (which was actually a underlying selling point) dead pixels, ported ps2 games, load times, etc. Sony definitely should price drop the system and games

[Thomas96]

perhaps the war of 1812 has also just begun....strell hit it on the money you are delusional



well at least a battle...

Strell lies to make his point..(or does poor research) as he clearly lied (or was mistaken, not really calling him a liar) when he said that 'iga' (ref castlevania director) doesn't like 2d games, then I find an article with the guy saying the exact opposite(aug 05) He can call me what he wants, but one thing I don't do is misquote people just to make a point.


I think that psp has a lot of life left, because Sony has to worry about the ps3, and has to get that established before they can think about trying to release a new psp. So, there's at least 2-3 years left with the psp, actually, it'd be in Sony's best interest for them to release a redesign of the psp, with improvements, better d-pad, no dead pixels, internal memory..etc I'll admit the DS won the day the DSL came out... even I couldn't resist it.. at 129.99 actually got it for 109.99 w/ free brain age. With deals like that, on DAY 1; who can beat you. Handhelds, need cheap games, and high variety.. and the psp doesn't have that... not like the ds.. wish it did though.

[Ebraum]

Load times are what killed the PSP for me. If you want to play a game while sitting on the can, forget it. I finished unloading before most games ever loaded.

[6669]

Absolutely not

[Strell]

Strell lies to make his point..(or does poor research) as he clearly lied (or was mistaken, not really calling him a liar) when he said that 'iga' (ref castlevania director) doesn't like 2d games, then I find an article with the guy saying the exact opposite(aug 05) He can call me what he wants, but one thing I don't do is misquote people just to make a point.


Wow.

Listen.

You're an idiot.

You can't read, you argue the same tired useless bullshit point over and over.

I said two things about Iga - one, that he hates 2D, and yet two, that he only recently even thought it was still viable.

You can talk to other people who have had it with his shit. He's very well known for being a pompous asshole about Castlevania, especially Lament of Innocence and Curse of Darkness. But they bombed. And they sucked. They are the retarded cousins of the series. The man willingly withdrew resources from the 2D incarnations (such as the main artist, replacing her beautiful artwork with bullshit anime) in order to focus entirely on the 3D games, and kept talking about how "portables are for kids and only kids play them and I want to do something mature on home consoles because 3D is the way to go."



May '06: “2D is an art form in itself, and I don’t want to lose that culture,” he says. “...I haven’t been satisfied with what I’ve achieved on the 3D platform, but I’m certainly churning my mind constantly about how to bring 3D to life with Castlevania.”

Translation: Gosh I really wish I could get 3D right!


October '06: I’ve been thinking, trying to simulate various forms of Castlevania on next generation. I do understand that fans love 2D. I’ve worked on 3D platforms twice already, but I’m not really happy about my work.

I’ve been facing a dilemma over 3D game platforming... obviously I’ve done two projects already and I know something is wrong. I have certain ideas in my head, but we’re not up to the stage of expressing that in the game. That’s something I’m not happy with and really want to meet the challenge.

Yeah, because you suck balls at it and you're backpedaling.

July '05: He has stated that there are a lot of financial considerations when making a 2D game, taking into account the fact that 2D games are generally not as successful these days.


Not when your console games suck. The 2Ds have been the only thing keeping your name attached to the project.

The problem is that when Igarashi shovels it, he uses both hands. After all, he’s been quoted as saying not only that 3D games can’t provide the depth of 2D games, but also that maintaining Castlevania’s gameplay in 3D would be impossible.

Yet he does them anyway? Wtf?

2003: KI: Since the game industry is movie-directed, I suppose it's natural that players' interest in 2D games is becoming dimmer.

Madness.

What else do you need? How about a petition from disgruntled fans wanting a 2D on a home console, complete with 1200 signatures? (http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/2DCastlevania/signatures?start=1200)

Listen, you've been a great player, and you'll get a home version of our game. But it won't be on the PSP.

G'night everyone.

[Roufuss]

1,200 signatures is nothing, though... most home console fans don't really care about 2-D, sadly enough.

Lament of Innocence and Curse of Darkness were far from the retarded cousins of the series... that honor goes to the N64 games. Lament of Innocence was really only plagued by shit level design, and I didn't play enough of Curse of Darkness to make an informed judgement, but what I played was ok. They could have done ALOT worse.

I mean, they are absolutely right, 2-D ISN'T as successful these days, and give it time, handheld systems will get to the same point console systems did and everyone will want 3-D on those as well. It's already happening on the DS / PSP.

IGA just wants to bring the series into 3-D so the series can survive when everything changes and he can be ready. SNK has just now started working in 3-D majorly and they have ALOT of catch up to do and it shows.

Capcom was smart and abandoned 2-D early and started hitting 3-D like crazy, and they are extremely successful for the most part., while still making a few games in 2-D here and there.

I guess what I'm saying is that, for the most part with this next generation of consoles, 2-D gaming is pretty much gone... I'm not sure how much 2-D, if any, we'll see on the PS3 or 360 (outside of XBLA). Maybe the third time is the charm and IGA can make a fantastic 3-D game, he just needs to put a ton of effort into it (think Ninja Gaiden's transformation from 2-D to 3-D).

[Thomas96]

Wow.

Listen.

You're an idiot.

You can't read, you argue the same tired useless bullshit point over and over.

I said two things about Iga - one, that he hates 2D, and yet two, that he only recently even thought it was still viable.

You can talk to other people who have had it with his shit. He's very well known for being a pompous asshole about Castlevania, especially Lament of Innocence and Curse of Darkness. But they bombed. And they sucked. They are the retarded cousins of the series. The man willingly withdrew resources from the 2D incarnations (such as the main artist, replacing her beautiful artwork with bullshit anime) in order to focus entirely on the 3D games, and kept talking about how "portables are for kids and only kids play them and I want to do something mature on home consoles because 3D is the way to go."





Translation: Gosh I really wish I could get 3D right!



Yeah, because you suck balls at it and you're backpedaling.



Not when your console games suck. The 2Ds have been the only thing keeping your name attached to the project.



Yet he does them anyway? Wtf?



Madness.

What else do you need? How about a petition from disgruntled fans wanting a 2D on a home console, complete with 1200 signatures? (http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/2DCastlevania/signatures?start=1200)

Listen, you've been a great player, and you'll get a home version of our game. But it won't be on the PSP.

G'night everyone.


I'm not going to address any more issues with you, cause obviously you're taking things too personally, called me delusional, idiot, pompous ass, etc. Make your point, post your topic, but I was born with one name and one name only Thomas Davis, Jr and I'd prefer if you'd address me as such. You don't need to try to diss me just to make a point..

[Thomas96]

2d is still good, and people still love 2d, and the psp would benefit from more
2d games, New Super Mario is basically a 2d game, and it was (and probably still is) the number one selling game.

[furyk]

I'm not going to address any more issues with you, cause obviously you're taking things too personally, called me delusional, idiot, pompous ass, etc. Make your point, post your topic, but I was born with one name and one name only Thomas Davis, Jr and I'd prefer if you'd address me as such. You don't need to try to diss me just to make a point..

You want to be called Thomas Davis, Jr and you're upset that Strell is calling you a pompous ass? You are right though. Strell is putting in way too much time for someone who probably still shits his pants.

[depascal22]

All right, all right. Break it up, guys. This really isn't a fair fight. I don't think Thomas knew what he was getting into when he started this little war but now I think he wants it to be over. You've had your fun with the boy. Now throw him back so someone else can catch him.

[Thomas96]

All right, all right. Break it up, guys. This really isn't a fair fight. I don't think Thomas knew what he was getting into when he started this little war but now I think he wants it to be over. You've had your fun with the boy. Now throw him back so someone else can catch him.


argue all you guys want, I'm not done... it's just that, I don't think we need to be disrespectful.. if the psp is a piece of shit, or the ds is a piece of shit.. express it.. but just because the next man don't agree with you doesn't mean you need to diss him.. We all in here cause we like games, so if you diss me you diss yourself..

and with that said.. Grand Theft Auto Vice City Stores is coming out soon; that game might end up being handheld game of the year... they definitely made some improvements over vice city (not that I thought it needed any). There's not one game on the DS that can say it's better..

[mykevermin]

and with that said.. Grand Theft Auto Vice City Stores is coming out soon; that game might end up being handheld game of the year... they definitely made some improvements over vice city (not that I thought it needed any). There's not one game on the DS that can say it's better..

There's not one game on the DS that is like it; whether or not any system has a better game than VCS is up to the purchaser. There's lotsa GTA action to play out there, even if you don't have a PSP; if Liberty City is any indication, we'll see a PS2 version for $30 less in five months' time anyway. Do I want VCS? You betcha. Not for 50 bones, though.

Besides, I'm too busy trying to exonerate Lana Skye. Dig?

[Thomas96]

another thing... 34.99 for New super mario was a straight rip off... granted the game is good, but, in terms of levels, smb 3 had more levels and game content.. at least on the psp, you take daxter 39.99, you getting a lot more game per buck than you do for a lot of games on the DS.

[Thomas96]

There's not one game on the DS that is like it; whether or not any system has a better game than VCS is up to the purchaser. There's lotsa GTA action to play out there, even if you don't have a PSP; if Liberty City is any indication, we'll see a PS2 version for $30 less in five months' time anyway. Do I want VCS? You betcha. Not for 50 bones, though.

Besides, I'm too busy trying to exonerate Lana Skye. Dig?

might have to get that with the TRU b2g1 deal; I dig it.

[mykevermin]

'cept B2G1 ends on 10/28, sweetcakes.

[Thomas96]

'cept B2G1 ends on 10/28, sweetcakes.

yeah I know.. phoenix wright, ace combat, and..... something else then... ugh, I'll just wait for a while, or maybe just get GTA then, I said I wasn't buying anymore games till the PS3 comes out.

[CrimsonPaw]

... if Liberty City is any indication, we'll see a PS2 version for $30 less in five months' time anyway. Do I want VCS? You betcha. Not for 50 bones, though.
Here you go: http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=81848

Don't expect to be playing VCS on your PS2 any time soon. This makes sense though, why would Rockstar put the effort into porting a game to a system who's lifecycle is at it's end. Not to mention that I'm sure their effort is being focussed on GTA:IV. $50 isn't that bad a price to pay for what they (hopefully) will be giving. Got my preorder and will be at EB next Monday.

[Roufuss]

Here you go: http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=81848

Don't expect to be playing VCS on your PS2 any time soon. This makes sense though, why would Rockstar put the effort into porting a game to a system who's lifecycle is at it's end. Not to mention that I'm sure their effort is being focussed on GTA:IV. $50 isn't that bad a price to pay for what they (hopefully) will be giving. Got my preorder and will be at EB next Monday.

The way I see it is that Liberty City Stories frequently shows up at pawn shops around here for $20 - $25... I have a feeling Vice City Stories will be exactly the same.

I really want the game, I was going to pay $50 for it, but then I remembered how many times during my pawn shop runs Liberty City Stories has been there. People get bored of these games really fast.

And that article is just Rockstar covering their own asses... of course they are going to say there are no plans to port it, because they want everyone to buy it for the PSP right now. IIRC, when Liberty City Stories came out there was no plans to port that anywhere else, either.

[mykevermin]

Here you go: http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=81848

Don't expect to be playing VCS on your PS2 any time soon. This makes sense though, why would Rockstar put the effort into porting a game to a system who's lifecycle is at it's end. Not to mention that I'm sure their effort is being focussed on GTA:IV. $50 isn't that bad a price to pay for what they (hopefully) will be giving. Got my preorder and will be at EB next Monday.

I've read that, but the cynic in me says that the PS2 installed base is far too large to ignore. For the moment, sure, they'll say they have no plans to port it - that way it actually sells.

[depascal22]

I've read that, but the cynic in me says that the PS2 installed base is far too large to ignore. For the moment, sure, they'll say they have no plans to port it - that way it actually sells.

Yeah, if they say that they'll release it on the PS2 in a year, no one will buy the PSP version for $50. They're not stupid enough to hurt the bottom line.

Thomas -- I was just joking around with you man. People were getting a little too crazy arguing about the two systems when we should all be playing the games instead of bitching about them.

[Thomas96]

honestly the psp version of lcs was better than the ps2 version, and the main reason was due to the custom soundtracks.. maybe this time, you'll be able to use mp3s. Instead of pushing Killzone and loco roco and ATV 2, pack this game in the psp 249.99 bundle.. Sony is not aggressive enough.. If nintendo can push a system with SNES graphics, you mean to tell me the best sony can do is two squirrels, or two baseballs (not to say it wasn't a good try) )

[Aleryn]

Probably not but I do think a PSP2 could be successful even if they didn't upgrade the horsepower of the system as long as they:

1. Added a second analog nub or added 2 real analog sticks (there's a great usb mod floating around)
2. Ditched the UMD in favor of pro duo based games. This would mean no load times, longer battery life and crazy piracy.
3. Allow homebrew

The PSP is great and can do a ton but it is severely lacking in AAA games and I think it has been flawed from the start.

Yup exactly my thoughts about the PSP on those first two. Homebrew doesn't matter as much to me, but I know lotsa people love it. They really outta work out the bugs and increase the durability of the PSP if they do a redesign, as well.

[whoknows]

3. Allow homebrew

Can't really blame Sony for trying to stop homebrew on the PSP with how many people are just downloading the ISO's instead of buying the game.

[uberzone]

I'm not going to address any more issues with you, cause obviously you're taking things too personally, called me delusional, idiot, pompous ass, etc. Make your point, post your topic, but I was born with one name and one name only Thomas Davis, Jr and I'd prefer if you'd address me as such. You don't need to try to diss me just to make a point..

He called you an idiot, yes, but the rest of the stuff he was referring to Iga-whatshisface.

Play games, be merry.


I love my PSP, i don't care what you homo-erectus' say. :D

[Roufuss]

Hilarious how everyone loves the Dreamcast with only one analog stick, yet hates the PSP because it only has one analog stick.

I hate THE analog stick on the PSP, it hurts my thumb, but I don't hate it because it only has one... I'm not playing alot of games that require two sticks to begin with.

[depascal22]

honestly the psp version of lcs was better than the ps2 version

It doesn't matter if one version of a game is better or not. Everyone knows that the Xbox versions of most games are superior to the PS2 versions. Which version sold more?

Some people bought a PSP just for LCS but those same people were very very pissed when they ported to the PS2 and charged only $20 to boot. Those same people won't buy VCS on the PSP because they sold it off once they beat LCS. Rockstar would've been smarter to release LCS on the PS2 when VCS came out for the PSP.

Roufuss -- I think people are pissed off because the PSP features games that were originally designed for 2 analog sticks. If they're going to continue to port games then they should've made a second analog stick so people don't have to relearn how to play their favorite games on the road.

I don't really care about the second analog stick since I try not to play the ports but it would've been nice.

[RedvsBlue]

Hilarious how everyone loves the Dreamcast with only one analog stick, yet hates the PSP because it only has one analog stick.

I hate THE analog stick on the PSP, it hurts my thumb, but I don't hate it because it only has one... I'm not playing alot of games that require two sticks to begin with.

I've often wondered about that myself but you forgot to add in the Nintendo 64, it only had one analog stick as well.

[Thomas96]

It doesn't matter if one version of a game is better or not. Everyone knows that the Xbox versions of most games are superior to the PS2 versions. Which version sold more?

Some people bought a PSP just for LCS but those same people were very very pissed when they ported to the PS2 and charged only $20 to boot. Those same people won't buy VCS on the PSP because they sold it off once they beat LCS. Rockstar would've been smarter to release LCS on the PS2 when VCS came out for the PSP.

Roufuss -- I think people are pissed off because the PSP features games that were originally designed for 2 analog sticks. If they're going to continue to port games then they should've made a second analog stick so people don't have to relearn how to play their favorite games on the road.

I don't really care about the second analog stick since I try not to play the ports but it would've been nice.


the ps2 version sold more only because it has a high user base, anything on the ps2 is going to outsell the psp version for that reason alone. GTA "stories" should be exclusive to the psp, as it's own series; that would definitely help to boost sales.

[tayaf69]

i agree with the homebrew comment. if they would stop fighting homebrew by adding crappy updates, id still have my system. I cant stand sony and their dominant attitude. I did enjoy playing earthbound while I had the system though. Always fun playing rpgs on handhelds

[whoknows]

i agree with the homebrew comment. if they would stop fighting homebrew by adding crappy updates, id still have my system. I cant stand sony and their dominant attitude. I did enjoy playing earthbound while I had the system though. Always fun playing rpgs on handhelds
Yeah, but people are using homebrew to pirate PSP game, so I can't really see how you could blame Sony for wanting their games to...you know...sell.

[Thomas96]

Yeah, but people are using homebrew to pirate PSP game, so I can't really see how you could blame Sony for wanting their games to...you know...sell.


sony should license some of the homebrew... or make their own version of it... that's the real answer..
fans know best, and if people are taking time to create psp applications, then sony should definitely make their own applications for the psp,

[Thomas96]

The psp is the only handheld to last this long against the gameboy/DS brand, the psp has nothing but blockbuster titles coming out for that chrismas rush, a much better line up than anything on the DS.

[depascal22]

the ps2 version sold more only because it has a high user base, anything on the ps2 is going to outsell the psp version for that reason alone. GTA "stories" should be exclusive to the psp, as it's own series; that would definitely help to boost sales.

I agree with you that "stories" should be a PSP exclusive. But by porting it to the PS2, they basically told everyone to just wait for the console version. Rockstar was chasing the bucks that 100 million PS2 owners have and in doing so they screwed over the PSP.

Any console/handheld needs a killer app. Without an exclusive GTA spin-off, the PSP has very little original games coming out for it. I like what they did with the new Killzone but it's still a Killzone.

Don't start picking this apart by saying that I'm saying that there are NO original games coming out. I'm just saying that the PSP can't point to Lumines and LocoRoco and say that they have a huge number of original properties. The DS is guilty of this also but they're changing the games enough to make them unique to the system.

[Thomas96]

I agree with you that "stories" should be a PSP exclusive. But by porting it to the PS2, they basically told everyone to just wait for the console version. Rockstar was chasing the bucks that 100 million PS2 owners have and in doing so they screwed over the PSP.

Any console/handheld needs a killer app. Without an exclusive GTA spin-off, the PSP has very little original games coming out for it. I like what they did with the new Killzone but it's still a Killzone.

Don't start picking this apart by saying that I'm saying that there are NO original games coming out. I'm just saying that the PSP can't point to Lumines and LocoRoco and say that they have a huge number of original properties. The DS is guilty of this also but they're changing the games enough to make them unique to the system.


in the past, there weren't that many original games, or even killer apps for the psp. I always say during launch a system doesn't need a 'killer app' at that time. (you just need enough games to cover the basis, spiderman, ridge racer, wipeout, luminies[which was the system seller for me] Launch is the time where killer apps are born. When the psp launched, there were no killer apps... looking back.. Lumines ended up being the killer app born out of that. Post, launch has been weak for the psp, it's like we've been stuck in launch mode for the past year or so.. If developers put into the psp, like they put into the DS, the psp would be number one.. or a heck of a lot closer to the DS... when the DS lauched, there was no opposition from sony, no new game, no new commercial, nothing...


I think that they can port GTA VCS to the ps2, when it's ready to be a greatest hit on the psp, then they release it for ps2 as a greatest hit as well.

[rscaramelo]

I've had both and prefer the PSP. I don't watch movies, browse the internet or listen to music with the thing. I just like the games better on PSP. I'm one of those guys who buys sports and fighting games.

I sold my PS2 because I could get most of what I played on the PSP, so the port issue is a bonus with me. Load times aren't great but besides on WWE, it's never been a major issue with me.

I remember when I went in to buy the PSP at my local GS, the guys behind the counter were practically begging me not to buy it. I find retailers have a major bias against the system. In the last month I've noticed that the PSP section in a couple of stores keeps getting shrunk. It makes no sense to me since the lineup has been getting bigger and better. I also noticed that GS and Circuit City no longer keep the games and movies in their own sections. It's confusing when you are browsing for a game and you have a movie sitting there.

DS is cool but I like my PSP better. I know lots of Nintendo people get pissed when people (wrongly) call their consoles and handhelds kiddie systems. Everyone's entitled to their opinions but be consistent.

RC

[mykevermin]

I've had both and prefer the PSP. I don't watch movies, browse the internet or listen to music with the thing. I just like the games better on PSP. I'm one of those guys who buys sports and fighting games.

I sold my PS2 because I could get most of what I played on the PSP, so the port issue is a bonus with me. Load times aren't great but besides on WWE, it's never been a major issue with me.

I remember when I went in to buy the PSP at my local GS, the guys behind the counter were practically begging me not to buy it. I find retailers have a major bias against the system. In the last month I've noticed that the PSP section in a couple of stores keeps getting shrunk. It makes no sense to me since the lineup has been getting bigger and better. I also noticed that GS and Circuit City no longer keep the games and movies in their own sections. It's confusing when you are browsing for a game and you have a movie sitting there.

DS is cool but I like my PSP better. I know lots of Nintendo people get pissed when people (wrongly) call their consoles and handhelds kiddie systems. Everyone's entitled to their opinions but be consistent.

RC

That's an interesting point: what factors are holding the PSP back?

1) bias (from retailers or consumers)
2) poor brand image in the public
3) the "psp is the ps2 lite" mentality
4) something else (or several somethings else)

I think #3 is a major factor, and since the PS2 installed base is enormous, consumers don't look at PSP titles as PSP titles, but as "less of the same game" than the PS2 version. There's no incentive to buy the PSP for the average, uninformed consumer (those people who buy Madden and GTA, or only big name titles).

OTOH, the DS is a system for which, even if the game is available on other systems (let's pick on Lego Star Wars), you *know* it's going to be a radically different game than the console and PSP versions; that is, ironically (in the sense that the PSP was pushing itself as being much more high-tech than the DS). So, the DS is a better option, presumably, since the same game as the PSP version can be bought on consoles people already own.

Generalizing, of course.

[CrimsonPaw]

That's an interesting point: what factors are holding the PSP back?

1) bias (from retailers or consumers)
2) poor brand image in the public
3) the "psp is the ps2 lite" mentality
4) something else (or several somethings else)

I think #3 is a major factor, and since the PS2 installed base is enormous, consumers don't look at PSP titles as PSP titles, but as "less of the same game" than the PS2 version. There's no incentive to buy the PSP for the average, uninformed consumer (those people who buy Madden and GTA, or only big name titles).

OTOH, the DS is a system for which, even if the game is available on other systems (let's pick on Lego Star Wars), you *know* it's going to be a radically different game than the console and PSP versions; that is, ironically (in the sense that the PSP was pushing itself as being much more high-tech than the DS). So, the DS is a better option, presumably, since the same game as the PSP version can be bought on consoles people already own.

Generalizing, of course.
Again, my stance is that price is a big factor in holding back. Combine that with your #3 and people will say "Why the f*** would I spend $200 on a system when I can get the same games on a $129 system (or whatever the PS2 is at now)".

Sony needs to lower the price to a competative level. After this, then I think the PSP will gain ground with their targeted (mid teen - late 20's) audience.

[rscaramelo]

Again, my stance is that price is a big factor in holding back. Combine that with your #3 and people will say "Why the f*** would I spend $200 on a system when I can get the same games on a $129 system (or whatever the PS2 is at now)".

Sony needs to lower the price to a competative level. After this, then I think the PSP will gain ground with their targeted (mid teen - late 20's) audience.

Well I kind of did the opposite of this by ditching the PS2 in favor of the PSP. I look at my PSP as more of a console than a handheld. I'm one of those "Madden" guys that gets crapped on by lots of gaming snobs here on CAG. I was so pleased with the PSP versions of Madden and FIFA that I found the PS2 versions to be redundant. Since I had a PC and a XBox for bigger screens, I sold the PS2. There is a neat feature with some of the newer games where you can play the same seasons on the PSP and PS2 - nice but not a big deal.

RC

[depascal22]

I was also discouraged from buying a PSP at Gamestop. I bought it the day after it came out and I still haven't stop playing Lumines. It's not a perfect system by any means but it's a damn good one.

I just picked up a DS for my family and it's pretty damn fun. I'm not convinced that the games are any great leap forward in gaming but it's a great system for games that you can pick up and play for a few minutes.

[TLR]

(Didn't bother reading the other posts)

I'd have to say no. They are aiming for completely different audiences.

Nintendo DS is for the majority of gamers that could be satisfied by a portable experience resembling something like Solitaire, Snake or Minesweeper(simple "pick up and play" games you could find the same likings of for free on a PC).

Sony PSP targets the smaller audience that is interested in having a portable experience that lacks nothing from the consoles(more complex and devoted games such as what we'd see on consoles).

Sony can bring handheld gaming out of the ghetto, but that doesn't mean everyone will follow.

I say everyone just play what you play and be happy with it. Both are doing fine, and both have a great selection of games for the audience they target.

[Thomas96]

That's a nice list you have complied on that link.

[depascal22]

That's a nice list he had on his link but it doesn't help the PSP one bit. If my daughter brought home a report card full of B's and C's( which is what the rankings on that list come out to), there would be hell to pay. There were only two games that came out at exactly 90%, Lumines and the sequel. Oh, and any list that gives an "honorable mention" deserves to be buried at the bottom of the sea. I love my PSP but we're nearly at the end of the second full year and we're still not seeing a "killer app".

[Thomas96]

Anyone look at the psp's library of games in the store it's getting thick... the DS has a few great games, but the psp has a some great games, with a gang of good games too. And soon the ps1 games are going to be downloadable... psp still fighting....

[TLR]

That's a nice list you have complied on that link.

Thanks. I'm really behind on updating it though because of too many other projects, so there's a lot of games that should be on that list that just aren't yet.

[Hibiwa]

Anyone look at the psp's library of games in the store it's getting thick... the DS has a few great games, but the psp has a some great games, with a gang of good games too. And soon the ps1 games are going to be downloadable... psp still fighting....
Too late for me. Perception or not, the PSP momentum isn't there. There's an intangible engergy to the DS that more is on the horizon, whereas it feels like the PSP is trying to catch up because it has to.

I don't buy new systems until they've been around long enough to work out the kinks and a library of essential games is abundant and available.

When the PSP launched I salivated at the large shiny screen and processing power and laughed at the pitifully small DS dual screen - a weird GBA with a gap. I couldn't wait to get the PSP.

Fast forward a year or whatever and the shiny gadget started to fade unexpectedly. Nothing seemed to be coming out for it and none for the DS either. I waited on the sidelines to see where my money would go because I wasn't going to drop it on that bulky and hideous DS Phat. Word of the DS Lite comes out and the gameplan changes. Wait some more.

The tide turned within the last couple of months with the Onyx out, and the constant and growing buzz of the fun and varied games for the DSL.

Suddenly I've amassed a bunch of DS games (including several imports as they seem more interesting than the US releases) and am now set on getting the console very soon.

My heart was set on the PSP. It didn't endear me and I'm moving on until the PSP gets redesigned and the price comes down. It isn't even good enough to plan ahead and get the games I do want now for the unfounded fear of a format change and incompatibility issue down the road.

The gut says pass on the PSP again. Sorry.

[Thomas96]

The psp is too high... and that's the bottom line... since the ps3 won't hardly be in stock drop the price of the psp, to 149.99 with nothing but the memory stick and charger...

[Thomas96]

PSP halfway there... Good games - check!

[Strell]

PSP halfway there... Good games - check!

Nope. (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/newsArt.cfm?artid=12543)

[Kendro]

Further troubling for Sony's portable system are its software sales in comparison to Nintendo. PSP has sold 2.8 million games to date this year, while Nintendo has sold 27 million games

http://ds.ign.com/articles/750/750195p1.html

In all seriousness, that's a freaking shocker. PSP is going to end up on life support if games sell that bad.

[mykevermin]

http://ds.ign.com/articles/750/750195p1.html

In all seriousness, that's a freaking shocker. PSP is going to end up on life support if games sell that bad.

Kinda. The bedrock of portable gaming has been Nintendo for 17 years, and they've done a marvelous job with the DS and Wii. There's no denying that.

To think that there's only room for one portable system in the marketplace is based on a foolish notion that multiple options can't exist in the marketplace. Every console generation from the Atari/Coleco/whatevertheshitnobodybought on has had room for several options. Even Nintendo, who was more or less tied for second place with Microsoft (speaking globally) this past generation, did turn a profit on the Gamecube (I'd argue MS failed to make money was partially as a result of having to carry the cost of starting a console games division).

There's plenty of room for multiple choices in the marketplace. That is a different question entirely from "will the PSP ever do as well as the DS?" I think the answer to that is quite evident. The jury's still out, however, on whether or not the PSP is getting closer to the grave. If Sony continues to market it as a all-in-one media wonder (e.g. that stupid fucking commercial featuring hipster boy using his PSP to find hipster gal), and not focus on the games, then they'll do themselves in without any assistance from Nintendo. Exclusive games that are fucking mindblowing, however, are far and few between on the system, so for gamers, it's not a difficult choice.

[Roufuss]

The answer to this question is a resounding no.

DQ 9 on the DS just nailed the PSP's coffin shut in Japan... I'm expecting to see developers start pulling out in the next few months, simply to program on the system that has 4 times the userbase (and effectively, 4 times the sales without 4 times as much money to make).

Myke, while I agree with what you wrote, the announcement of DQ 9 is going to further increase the DS's installed userbase by a ton, while shrinking the PSP's. I mean, PSP has nothing in Japan that can compare to an announcement of this caliber... this was pretty much Nintendo's killing blow, at least in Japan.

The only way Sony can start doing damage control is lower the MSRP on every single PSP game down to $29.99... that would very quickly get people re-interested in the PSP, in the US at least. I know me, personally, I will be getting Killzone and Vice City Stories at Best Buy tommorrow due to the $29.99 price tag (and using a GGC, naturally).

I never even gave these games a look at $40. I imagine many others haven't either.

Also: Final Fantasy 7 portable. Now. It is really the only other thing they could do.

[mykevermin]

The answer to this question is a resounding no.

DQ 9 on the DS just nailed the PSP's coffin shut in Japan... I'm expecting to see developers start pulling out in the next few months, simply to program on the system that has 4 times the userbase (and effectively, 4 times the sales without 4 times as much money to make).

Myke, while I agree with what you wrote, the announcement of DQ 9 is going to further increase the DS's installed userbase by a ton, while shrinking the PSP's. I mean, PSP has nothing in Japan that can compare to an announcement of this caliber... this was pretty much Nintendo's killing blow, at least in Japan.

The only way Sony can start doing damage control is lower the MSRP on every single PSP game down to $29.99... that would very quickly get people re-interested in the PSP, in the US at least. I know me, personally, I will be getting Killzone and Vice City Stories at Best Buy tommorrow due to the $29.99 price tag (and using a GGC, naturally).

I never even gave these games a look at $40. I imagine many others haven't either.

Also: Final Fantasy 7 portable. Now. It is really the only other thing they could do.

I fully agree that the pricepoint is absurd. I'd argue, quite seriously, that the price of the system and the titles are harming it more than the DS is. Many will disagree, and that's fine; but much of my PSP collection consists of titles I'll but @ $20-30, meaning I have to wait for it for a few months, and the developers have to drop the price on it (something they're assuredly unhappy in doing). The DS does not have that problem at all.

Do they need FFVII? Maybe. "Crisis Core" is probably considered a "can pass on" purchase, even for FF fans, especially those who have played Dirge of Cerberus. The most important thing for the PSP is a console pricedrop to $150, and for titles to be $30 max MSRP. If they refuse to do that, they can not only bank on being in second place forever, but an increasingly distant one.

[TimPV3]

The PSP could catch up, but it won't.

No matter how many awesome games come out on the PSP, people seem to just not care.Topic over.

[RAMSTORIA]

The answer to this question is a resounding no.

DQ 9 on the DS just nailed the PSP's coffin shut in Japan... I'm expecting to see developers start pulling out in the next few months, simply to program on the system that has 4 times the userbase (and effectively, 4 times the sales without 4 times as much money to make).

Myke, while I agree with what you wrote, the announcement of DQ 9 is going to further increase the DS's installed userbase by a ton, while shrinking the PSP's. I mean, PSP has nothing in Japan that can compare to an announcement of this caliber... this was pretty much Nintendo's killing blow, at least in Japan.

The only way Sony can start doing damage control is lower the MSRP on every single PSP game down to $29.99... that would very quickly get people re-interested in the PSP, in the US at least. I know me, personally, I will be getting Killzone and Vice City Stories at Best Buy tommorrow due to the $29.99 price tag (and using a GGC, naturally).

I never even gave these games a look at $40. I imagine many others haven't either.

Also: Final Fantasy 7 portable. Now. It is really the only other thing they could do.


i think the key here is "in japan". i agree that the ds is pretty much going to stay ahead and continue to pull ahead i dont think the psp is dead, especially not in america.

that said, i think developers will start to pull out as well and eventually the psp will die, i just dont think itll be any time soon and i would expect to see a psp 2 in the next 2 years.

[Roufuss]

I fully agree that the pricepoint is absurd. I'd argue, quite seriously, that the price of the system and the titles are harming it more than the DS is. Many will disagree, and that's fine; but much of my PSP collection consists of titles I'll but @ $20-30, meaning I have to wait for it for a few months, and the developers have to drop the price on it (something they're assuredly unhappy in doing). The DS does not have that problem at all.

Do they need FFVII? Maybe. "Crisis Core" is probably considered a "can pass on" purchase, even for FF fans, especially those who have played Dirge of Cerberus. The most important thing for the PSP is a console pricedrop to $150, and for titles to be $30 max MSRP. If they refuse to do that, they can not only bank on being in second place forever, but an increasingly distant one.

Here's another problem:

The rumor is that SE is bringing a beloved series to PSP finally... and it's a port of freaking Final Fantasy Tactics. Who is getting FFTA 2? That's right, the GBA / DS.

I'm sick of the ports already.

And yea, the PSP is pretty much dead in the US as well, sales numbers are just as shitty here.

[furyk]

Here's another problem:

The rumor is that SE is bringing a beloved series to PSP finally... and it's a port of freaking Final Fantasy Tactics. Who is getting FFTA 2? That's right, the GBA / DS.

I'm sick of the ports already.

And yea, the PSP is pretty much dead in the US as well, sales numbers are just as shitty here.

Well the recent sales have been shitty, but the PSP was beating the DS until the Lite came out. Granted, the games (besides GTA) weren't selling, but the PSP was a moderate success in the US. I really, really think that Sony's best shot at making a come back is a system redesign. Ditch the nub, give it a clamshell design to protect the screen, a faster drive to diminish load times (is that possible?), increase the battery life, and maybe (maybe) shrink it down a bit. Being an adamant supporter of the DS (85 games strong at the moment), I still think there's a place for the PSP just not this PSP.

I've always wanted an alternative to the Nintendo portable market. I have a Neo Geo Pocket, Game Gear, and a large collection of stupid one shot LCD games. I just want there to be an alternative. Choice is good, and I think the PSP has made DS games better, not worse.

[mykevermin]

Here's another problem:

The rumor is that SE is bringing a beloved series to PSP finally... and it's a port of freaking Final Fantasy Tactics. Who is getting FFTA 2? That's right, the GBA / DS.

I'm sick of the ports already.

And yea, the PSP is pretty much dead in the US as well, sales numbers are just as shitty here.

Well, it's just a rumor, but if true, it makes you wonder if they're trying to kill the PSP. "These guys get *the* next game in an amazingly popular (in Japan, though moderately popular in the US) RPG, but these guys get a moderately popular SRPG based off of a franchise that everyone else wants to play different games from."

At least it's not FF1&2. ;)

If they can get PS1 downloads to go to the PSP without the PS3, and add FFVII, that can really help the system. In the end, whether FF or DQ, I can't help but think that RPGs are overrated in how much impact people think they have on console sales.

[Roufuss]

I guess I'm in a catch 22, I'm sick of the ports, yet I buy them, so I support that which I do not like.

Some ports though, to be fair, are really great, like Powerstone Collection, since the games are kinda tough to find at a good price. Then you have VCS which is pretty much just borrowing the same map and that's all.

But what I want is a healthy mix of original games mixed in with the ports. It seems for every original game we get 10 ports... for the GBA, it seems like there was a 1:1 ratio for ports ---> new games.

And I guess it's always the ports that get the most attention, so when you compare it to the DS, it's exactly as you said myke. I wouldn't mind the ports if the emphasis was on the original games, but I don't know, it seems like the new Metal Gear REALLY flew under the radar.

[RAMSTORIA]

i think final fantasy vii: crisis core will move some systems.

but then again, dirge was bad (at least thats what i hear, i havent played it, but it seems to be pretty unanimous) but i still think itll move some systems

[rickonker]

I wish the PSP had two analog sticks, but if they redesign it now I'll never buy a Sony system again. When I buy a new system I expect it to be up to date and supported for 5 years, yes that includes handhelds.

[whoknows]

i think final fantasy vii: crisis core will move some systems.

but then again, dirge was bad (at least thats what i hear, i havent played it, but it seems to be pretty unanimous) but i still think itll move some systems
Oh it was more than bad, it was the worst game I have ever played. I couldnt believe Square Enix would be willing to put their name on that load of shit. Even more so I cant believe there are people out there that paid actual money for it.
It was so bad I wouldn't even buy it with Monopoly money.

[Thomas96]

http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=14737


as of November 2006:

PS2: 35.8 million
GBA: 34.3 million
DS: 7.6 million
PSP: 5.7 million
Xbox 360: 3.4 million
Wii: 476 thousand
PS3: 197 thousand

PSP is a certafied hustla!

What sony could do is come out with a redesigned psp, charge 199.99 for it, and then drop the price of the regular psp, still use umd(s), same memory card slots, make the old to new psp seamless, that's been Nintendo's strength, transition from one version of gameboy to the next have been seamless.

[schuerm26]

I fully agree that the pricepoint is absurd. I'd argue, quite seriously, that the price of the system and the titles are harming it more than the DS is.

Shockingly, I am going to wholeheartedly agree with Vermin on this.

[Strell]

What sony could do is come out with a redesigned psp, charge 199.99 for it, and then drop the price of the regular psp, still use umd(s), same memory card slots, make the old to new psp seamless, that's been Nintendo's strength, transition from one version of gameboy to the next have been seamless.

What could happen is you could stfu, because you're projecting your delusions onto a world that is cold and black.

[Thomas96]

What could happen is you could stfu, because you're projecting your delusions onto a world that is cold and black.



ohhhhhhh, that's that flaming DS fanboy hate... I'm not project delusions, only stats, and some ideas for the future...

[Strell]

ohhhhhhh, that's that flaming DS fanboy hate... I'm not project delusions, only stats, and some ideas for the future...

No.

As the majority of people in this thread have said, the PSP can't top the DS in terms of sales. It never will. The fact that you "back up" your claims with a lot of what-if scenarios and wouldn't-it-be-greats.

The DS is about to send the PSP into purgatory over in Japan, and once that happens, it's over for the PSP in that territory. I don't guess you saw the announcement of DQIX?

Your entire basis for argument is built upon these ideas that the PSP can overtake the DS if certain things happen. Again, the only way this happens is if Nintendo stopped making DSes.

That's not gonna happen. You can purport to like the PSP all you want, but you really need to get out of this juvenile wish happyland that it's going to overtake the DS.

[Thomas96]

The war is over. It has been over for a while now.

There's lots of problems in your argument. Namely, you're thinking the PSP is going to somehow gain enough support to then overtake the DS in terms of game library (quantity wise, not necessarily quality wise). This won't happen for a lot of reasons, namely that the DS is too far ahead in Japan where the majority of developers are.

Also, as we've seen with the GBA/GC, connectivity between a console and it's portable counterpart is never a system seller. Never. It doesn't help that the best Sony has shown is a rearview mirror in GTA HD, which absolutely no one gives a shit about. Not to mention that the PS3 will actually pull attention away from the PSP. All Sony is doing to counter this is releasing an emulator, and frankly, that's not enough to keep people at bay, interested, or attract enough new blood. It'll bring some and salvage some, but it's a bandaid on a cracked skull.

You're moving into early stages of delusion, brought upon by refusal.

As epobirs pointed out, it can't even make money for Sony, let alone take on the DS. That's the problem here. One of their big moneymakers (UMD) is dead, and the software isn't moving as quickly as should be needed for profit.

It's not going to happen.

HEY!!! You STFU! You've been on this bs tip for a while...

[suffah]

Even if Sony offered a SLICK re-design, dropped the price significantly, offered it in various colors that people have been demanding, continued to pump out good games, etc, they really have no chance of catching up to the DS.

That's because Nintendo will react to any attempts made by the PSP to try something like this. Nintendo will flip the switch and toss out a redesign of the DSL eventually, this would just make them do it even sooner. They'll keep pumping out the non-games/pokemon/DQIX and pretty much continue this domination.

All said though, the PSP has done well as a competitor to the DS. But it's impossible for the PSP to win now.

[Roufuss]

You know, thinking about it, maybe Sony should do what Microsoft did ala the Xbox.

Microsoft realized that they were never going to overtake Sony last generation, so instead they worked on creating a strong brand name that would further serve them when they released their new system. In the US, it seems to have worked.

Sony just needs to work on creating a strong brand so that when the PSP 2 comes, they have more of a foot to stand on. They will never overtake the DS and they need to realize this, and just work on building up the PSP name.

[rickonker]

You know, thinking about it, maybe Sony should do what Microsoft did ala the Xbox.

Microsoft realized that they were never going to overtake Sony last generation, so instead they worked on creating a strong brand name that would further serve them when they released their new system. In the US, it seems to have worked.

Sony just needs to work on creating a strong brand so that when the PSP 2 comes, they have more of a foot to stand on. They will never overtake the DS and they need to realize this, and just work on building up the PSP name.
I think you're on to something here. The way MS did this is to target people whose needs weren't satisfied by the PS2...great graphics, great online gaming, and PC style games.

The PSP does a lot of things the DS can't, but Sony hasn't been able to get as much of a following as the Xbox.

I think Sony's only real chance is for the PSP to be the same price as the DS. This is how MS fought the PS2, and it's what Sony will have to do to fight the DS, even if they lose money and the PSP is already more powerful.

[Roufuss]

I think you're on to something here. The way MS did this is to target people whose needs weren't satisfied by the PS2...great graphics, great online gaming, and PC style games.

The PSP does a lot of things the DS can't, but Sony hasn't been able to get as much of a following as the Xbox.

I think Sony's only real chance is for the PSP to be the same price as the DS. This is how MS fought the PS2, and it's what Sony will have to do to fight the DS, even if they lose money and the PSP is already more powerful.

I mean, you're right, PSP can do alot of things game wise that the DS can't do. Sony needs to play on these strengths, stop running stupid ad campaigns, and showing that even though PSP is number 2 it STILL has some good games and is well worth the purchase.

I mean, no commercials at all for Metal Gear Portable Ops? What the fuck? I will commend them on the tons of VCS and Killzone commercials, but the PSP's biggest game this Winter gets no commercials whatsoever? Instead we get these retarded commercials all about the PSP's media features... WHO CARES.

Build a decent brand, pimp out your hot games, create some sort of stable backbone that you can springboard the PSP 2 off of and, if Sony corrects the problems from this launch, can start off with a huge head start.

Sony hasn't been the underdog in so long they have no fucking clue what to do, and it shows, since they are doing the same things they always do BUT IT DOSEN'T WORK WHEN YOU'RE NUMBER 2.

Sony needs to let people know "Hey, you know, we're number 2, but we're just as fun as the DS Lite and we also have alot of kick ass games!".

I really like my PSP, I know it dosen't have a chanced of being #1, but I'd love for Sony to use this to do some awesome shit with the (hopefully) PSP 2. You have to give props to Sony for sticking with it for this long.

[rickonker]

Sony hasn't been the underdog in so long they have no fucking clue what to do, and it shows, since they are doing the same things they always do BUT IT DOSEN'T WORK WHEN YOU'RE NUMBER 2.

QFT. I'm seriously thinking about getting a PSP for myself but I get the feeling Sony isn't really behind it, so I'm not so sure.

[Thomas96]

Regardless of what happens, fight, give out all the options, drop the price, make the psp come competitive, and see what happens. According to the numbers the psp isn't that far behind anyway ( in terms of sales)

[Roufuss]

QFT. I'm seriously thinking about getting a PSP for myself but I get the feeling Sony isn't really behind it, so I'm not so sure.

Killzone is Sony's and they have been pushing it like you wouldn't believe... sadly people have attached a negative image to the entire franchise and the game is getting nowhere near the props it deserves.

The game is fantastic too.

Syphon Filter: Dark Mirror was also Sony's, also another fantastic game, also pretty much ignored for the exact same reasons.

Both games have gotten extremely high reviews but still, nobody can shake that negative stigma.

Both games, however, are steps in the right direction. If Sony made an amazing sequel to both games people would start to take notice.

[furyk]

I've got to disagree with you about Killzone Roufuss. I felt it was an incredibly mediocre game that really had a screwed up aiming system. Coupled with the fact that I don't care about anything in the Killzone universe, I just couldn't get into the game.

[rickonker]

I've got to disagree with you about Killzone Roufuss. I felt it was an incredibly mediocre game that really had a screwed up aiming system. Coupled with the fact that I don't care about anything in the Killzone universe, I just couldn't get into the game.
Was the original Killzone a good game? I remember hearing it was Sony's Halo killer but I didn't hear anything after that.

[Strell]

Regardless of what happens, fight, give out all the options, drop the price, make the psp come competitive, and see what happens. According to the numbers the psp isn't that far behind anyway ( in terms of sales)

In worldwide sales it is.

In Japan alone it's several million behind this year. At least 3 million, but I want to say 5.

I'll even be nice and pull out some figures from MagicBox:

Japanese Console Hardware Chart YTD from: Nov 13 - 19, 2006
Nintendo DS Lite - 5,753,904
PSP - 1,509,286

So that's basically 4 million. And added to the two million based on your figures from a few posts ago, that's 6 million if my math is correct...which I guess it could very well not be. I am horrible with numbers after all.

[Thomas96]

In worldwide sales it is.

In Japan alone it's several million behind this year. At least 3 million, but I want to say 5.

I'll even be nice and pull out some figures from MagicBox:

Japanese Console Hardware Chart YTD from: Nov 13 - 19, 2006
Nintendo DS Lite - 5,753,904
PSP - 1,509,286

So that's basically 4 million. And added to the two million based on your figures from a few posts ago, that's 6 million if my math is correct...which I guess it could very well not be. I am horrible with numbers after all.


I post US sales, and you post Japanese... horrible with numbers, but a great DS fanboy... I say there's hope for the PSP to do well, and you go trying to shoot it down..

[Dr Mario Kart]

U.S. sales dont help your cause anymore. The PSP was ahead of the DS in America until around the time the Lite launched. Ever since July, the GBA has been outselling the PSP in America. The trend is an increasing gap between the two machines.

I'm not going around saying the PSP cant do well. Its doing fine, despite its competitor doing phenominal

[Kaijufan]

Was the original Killzone a good game? I remember hearing it was Sony's Halo killer but I didn't hear anything after that.
I played through most of the game and it felt like a generic FPS that was below average at best. Let's just say Killzone 2 wont be a PS3 system seller for me.

[The Crotch]

Was the original Killzone a good game? I remember hearing it was Sony's Halo killer but I didn't hear anything after that.

It received "good" reviews. I think it got a 7.5 average from EGM.

Personally, I hated the game. I only played one level before shutting it off in disgust. I spent most of my time not actually knowing what the hell I was doing other than shooting an abnormally high number of bullets in the general direction of a bunch of stormtroopers with really goofy voices. I spent the rest of the time stuck on some damn sawbucks. I decided to quit and play me some Red Faction after getting the sniper rifle.

[whoknows]

Was the original Killzone a good game? I remember hearing it was Sony's Halo killer but I didn't hear anything after that.
It was no Halo killer by any means, but I thought it was a pretty good game. I enjoyed the campaign mode, but even more I enjoyed the online mode. It has a great online community with the developers constantly trying to improve it and releasing patches, and last time I checked it still had around the same number of people playing online that it had when it was released if not a little more.

[Brak]

Dunno, but I'm enjoying my PSP more than my DS.

[crazytalkx]

I'm waiting for a hugeeee price drop because there's quite a few games I wouldn't mind picking up (Killzone, Syphon Filter, Metal Gear Acid 1,2, Portable Ops, GTA Vice City) and the homebrew is mighty tempting. Maybe if I can get it for $120 with home brew compatibility.

Oh and in response to the thread topic's question, nope. Dragon Quest IX=fatality.

[evanft]

Someone needs to Photoshop a DS vs. PSP MK match with the fatality being DQ9.

[rickonker]

Wow, so Kaijufan thought Killzone was generic, The Crotch hated it, and whoknows enjoyed it. Even though I may regret this, the totally different opinions make me want to give it a rent to try it out for myself.

[hiccupleftovers]

It received "good" reviews. I think it got a 7.5 average from EGM.

Personally, I hated the game. I only played one level before shutting it off in disgust. I spent most of my time not actually knowing what the hell I was doing other than shooting an abnormally high number of bullets in the general direction of a bunch of stormtroopers with really goofy voices. I spent the rest of the time stuck on some damn sawbucks. I decided to quit and play me some Red Faction after getting the sniper rifle.

Red Faction rules indeed. Such an undervalued FPS. I wish Volition and moreso THQ would continue the license, especially this gen as I would love to see the updated graphics (especially for a game of this nature) and how the geo mod level physics would have changed over time. That and since that game pretty much ruled on multiplayer with the bots. I would love to have it on Live. Red Faction is pretty much the most overlooked FPS from last gen. Actually, it ties with XIII as the most overlooked FPSes.

[hiccupleftovers]

Wow, so Kaijufan thought Killzone was generic, The Crotch hated it, and whoknows enjoyed it. Even though I may regret this, the totally different opinions make me want to give it a rent to try it out for myself.

Hey I loved Killzone as I personally though it was better than Halo. It had a lot of great things going for it and love the single player of it. Still, I actually liked Red Faction and XIII more compared to it.

[hiccupleftovers]

U.S. sales dont help your cause anymore. The PSP was ahead of the DS in America until around the time the Lite launched. Ever since July, the GBA has been outselling the PSP in America. The trend is an increasing gap between the two machines.

I'm not going around saying the PSP cant do well. Its doing fine, despite its competitor doing phenominal
Yaeh, I was at my BB today and they had a butload of PSPs in the case with both DS Lites and GBA having been sold out. I pretty much did a double take at that; not the DS Lites having been sold out, but that the GBAs were gone and that they pretty much had 60-80 PSPs right there in the case not doing anything.

[rickonker]

Red Faction rules indeed. Such an undervalued FPS. I wish Volition and moreso THQ would continue the license, especially this gen as I would love to see the updated graphics (especially for a game of this nature) and how the geo mod level physics would have changed over time. That and since that game pretty much ruled on multiplayer with the bots. I would love to have it on Live. Red Faction is pretty much the most overlooked FPS from last gen. Actually, it ties with XIII as the most overlooked FPSes.
I totally agree that Red Faction and XIII are the most overlooked FPSes of the last gen. It's too bad because I really want to see geo mod again, and the cel shaded style can be great.

[hiccupleftovers]

I totally agree that Red Faction and XIII are the most overlooked FPSes of the last gen. It's too bad because I really want to see geo mod again, and the cel shaded style can be great.

When cel shading is done right, of course it is great. XIII was simply overlooked perfection. Exhilarating(sp) story that was absolutely riveting from start to finish. The cliffhanger ending is what kills me in that game as I know I'll probably never see a sequel, and that's where it hurts the most. The sneaking around int hat game was done perfectly and being able to pick up pretty much anything was fun. The way you killed people with storyboard paneling was awesome as well. I loved using the crossbow to shoot people for a headshot. The voice acting was great. I have very few qualms with that game other than maybe the controls could have used some tightening. Oh and it truly sucks that people did not buy that game. I will never let down the people who bought 50 Cent In Da Hood or whatever it's called over that game. Please Ubisoft, if you read this or any posts on XIII know that their is a fanbase and one that is feverous as ever for another game in this series. Please give this game a second chance and breathe life into it like you did with Prince of Persia.

And Red Faction, what can I say other than that game was perfection. People would point me in the direction of Halo at the time, and I'd say no young one Red Faction is the true messiah of FPS. There is so much potential in that game and so much that could have been done.

[rickonker]

When cel shading is done right, of course it is great. XIII was simply overlooked perfection. Exhilarating(sp) story that was absolutely riveting from start to finish. The cliffhanger ending is what kills me in that game as I know I'll probably never see a sequel, and that's where it hurts the most. The sneaking around int hat game was done perfectly and being able to pick up pretty much anything was fun. The way you killed people with storyboard paneling was awesome as well. I loved using the crossbow to shoot people for a headshot. The voice acting was great. I have very few qualms with that game other than maybe the controls could have used some tightening. Oh and it truly sucks that people did not buy that game. I will never let down the people who bought 50 Cent In Da Hood or whatever it's called over that game. Please Ubisoft, if you read this or any posts on XIII know that their is a fanbase and one that is feverous as ever for another game in this series. Please give this game a second chance and breathe life into it like you did with Prince of Persia.

And Red Faction, what can I say other than that game was perfection. People would point me in the direction of Halo at the time, and I'd say no young one Red Faction is the true messiah of FPS. There is so much potential in that game and so much that could have been done.
The story for XIII has been written, but I'd rather play a sequel than read it. I wonder if anyone still plays it on XBL...

[thegarageband]

I'm gonna end this topix.

Your mom goes to college.

[MarkMark]

I post US sales, and you post Japanese... horrible with numbers, but a great DS fanboy... I say there's hope for the PSP to do well, and you go trying to shoot it down..

Why does everyone see Strell as a fanboy for any system? He has shown spite towards any and all systems ever made in these forums. Obviously you havent paid much attention or are merely using fanboy to attack someones character as you have been backed into a corner by facts and numbers. You may as well start a thread is there still time for the gamecube to overtake the xbox.... PSP - slow death DS - good stable growth for now. The numbers do not lie. If you like PSP good for you...just enjoy it in your shrinking niche and leave your Delusions in the back of your mind.

[The Mana Knight]

Why has this thread been going on forever?

I'll just state my overall opinion. Without a doubt, I am a big Sony/PlayStation fan, and I'm definitely one of the biggest PSP supporters here at CAG. However, I will not deny that the DS is ahead (by a long shot), and the PSP will never catch up. The PSP could come a little closer to the DS (or just a big spike in sales), with a complete redesign (smaller size, better d-pad, better analog nub, more ergonomic, etc.), lower price (like $130-$150 with 1GB memory stick), lots of PS1 downloads, PSN on PSP, and more killer games (that will never come to PS2). Still, I love my PSP and will continue to support it as long as games are still coming to it. I could careless if DS is crushing it (I own a DS and like it too), as long as PSP has its own games appealing to me, keeping me happy.

If PSP were to completely die with no more games coming out, oh well, I bought 42 games for it (all but 3-4 are definite keepers), and I would probably buy more games to end up with around 50-60 (Very good number, when compared to my other consoles/handhelds). I'd still be very satisfied with my purchase (like I was with my Dreamcast, paying $200 for it at launch).

That's just my 2 cents.

[depascal22]

I've also been very satisfied with my PSP purchase. I've also been satisfied with my DS Lite, 360, PS2, and Xbox. Why do we always have to pit 2 similar systems against each other and make people decide which is better? They're all pretty good.

[hiccupleftovers]

The story for XIII has been written, but I'd rather play a sequel than read it. I wonder if anyone still plays it on XBL...

Yaeh, I found some of them at last Comic-Con and they're not bad, but I want my XIII-2 sequel.

[sarausagi]

Does anyone have demographics of actual sales?

That's what I am wondering: in other words..

Are the majority of sales for the GBA and DS in the United States from young children and parents?

The same can apply to Japan too: how many people bought a DS for Brain Age and never picked up another game for it?

More than anything, can Japan really indicate anything? The Saturn was a certified success in Japan and a sadly, failure in the US. The Dreamcast was a failure in Japan, and luckily, more succesful in the US. Likewise, the Xbox 360 is "Dead" in Japan, yet in the US of the word it thrives [thank god]

Also, while I am sure people will buy DQ IX in hordes: what happens when the public picks up the game and it's not Dragon Quest? Seriously, the majority of Dragon Quest fans ENJOY the formula, they've played it for eight games without much change, what makes anyone so sure that a game that [according to the news site posted] departs from the game play the series is known for will have as much success? Would anyone be surprised if Cheapy reported dozens of DS lites and DQ IX in used game stores the next day?

See, that's the thing...how many children will get a pink/black DS with Mario or Hannah Montana? How many will drop it within the next year for something else? How many will "grow up" and sell it for an iPod or put it down because they hae "dates"? How many people who buy PSPs this season, will buy games, memory sticks, UMD's, and what not? The sales of DS lites are inflated by children, parents, and people who do not actively fuel software sales.

The same thing applies to Gameboy Advanced? Who is getting all these GBAs? Gamers that buy a game every three weeks, or 7 year olds who will play Pokemon for the next year and a half?

[Dr Mario Kart]

Hardware sales coupled with software sales indicate things to game publishers and developers.

The DS happens to excel in both. The demographics of who is buying games isnt all that important, but the kind of game and how well it sells can sort of indicate demographics. Love and Berry DS is in its 3rd week in Japan and is sitting around 500k copies, and its primarily a girl's game.

Who is buying Animal Crossing? Is it just kids or adults? With 3.5 million units sold in Japan, does it really matter?

[sarausagi]

Hardware sales coupled with software sales indicate things to game publishers and developers.

The DS happens to excel in both. The demographics of who is buying games isnt all that important, but the kind of game and how well it sells can sort of indicate demographics. Love and Berry DS is in its 3rd week in Japan and is sitting around 500k copies, and its primarily a girl's game.

Who is buying Animal Crossing? Is it just kids or adults? With 3.5 million units sold in Japan, does it really matter?

Oh god, I want Love and Berry. I didn't know about it until now. Yes, oh yes, this seems like another game I will kill for..

As a side note, the post above doesn't indicate my position..and this is my position

Sega Genesis, Sega Saturn, PSX, PS2, XBOX 360, PS3..those are my consoles [okay, the PS3 will be, don't have one yet]

but I have always preferred the Nintendo handhelds, even when there are alternatives.

I wish there were viable alternatives, and Sony seems to be going head to head with the DS and not totally losing like other past efforts [nomad, gamegear, wonderswan, neo geo pocket, etc]

I wish Sony could do well, I wish they could..but there's no way they can....even if every single serious minded gamer bought a PSP and 5 games..it wouldn't make up for millions of parents and kids buying the DS...

GOD I WANT LOVE AND BERRY..IT LOOKS SO CUTE!!!

[furyk]

See, that's the thing...how many children will get a pink/black DS with Mario or Hannah Montana? How many will drop it within the next year for something else? How many will "grow up" and sell it for an iPod or put it down because they hae "dates"? How many people who buy PSPs this season, will buy games, memory sticks, UMD's, and what not? The sales of DS lites are inflated by children, parents, and people who do not actively fuel software sales.

Well yes and no. Moms buying games for the kids and kids actively boost some game sales. Take Nintendogs for instance. I've overheard at least seven moms/aunts calling home to ask which version of Nintendogs the kids don't have despite the fact that you can earn all of the different breeds by playing through the game. Furthermore, kids generate a lot of money for the bigger companies by buying lots of tie ins. Every parent I know with a gaming kid from age 3-12 has at least one Spongebob game despite the dubious quality. They're the ones who buy the Charlotte's Webs and the Shreks of the world. While they aren't buying a new game every week or two, they still pump a lot of money back into the majors by buying tons of stuff we won't even touch.

Also when the PSP first came out, games didn't sell in the US. UMD movies did helping game developers none. It's a two way street.

[sarausagi]

Well yes and no. Moms buying games for the kids and kids actively boost some game sales. Take Nintendogs for instance. I've overheard at least seven moms/aunts calling home to ask which version of Nintendogs the kids don't have despite the fact that you can earn all of the different breeds by playing through the game. Furthermore, kids generate a lot of money for the bigger companies by buying lots of tie ins. Every parent I know with a gaming kid from age 3-12 has at least one Spongebob game despite the dubious quality. They're the ones who buy the Charlotte's Webs and the Shreks of the world. While they aren't buying a new game every week or two, they still pump a lot of money back into the majors by buying tons of stuff we won't even touch.

Also when the PSP first came out, games didn't sell in the US. UMD movies did helping game developers none. It's a two way street.

See..that's what I mean..there's FOUR versions of Nintendogs...and dozens of license games.....which is what many people buying these consoles aRE buying as well.

It just completely throws off who the "key market" it is..it obviously isn't us..but is it really the parents and the spongebob players?

And that makes it difficult for me to say "Oh yeah, the DS already beat the crap out of the PSP several times" when I see that more people buy "That's So Raven" than Cooking Mama.

[furyk]

See..that's what I mean..there's FOUR versions of Nintendogs...and dozens of license games.....which is what many people buying these consoles aRE buying as well.

It just completely throws off who the "key market" it is..it obviously isn't us..but is it really the parents and the spongebob players?

And that makes it difficult for me to say "Oh yeah, the DS already beat the crap out of the PSP several times" when I see that more people buy "That's So Raven" than Cooking Mama.

Well the "kids who buy whatever" have always played a part in the Nintendo handheld market. The only company that never seemed to embrace that market was Microsoft. The thing is though is that even though a decent portion of the market is buying That's So Raven or Spongebob doesn't mean that people aren't buying New Super Mario Brothers or Phoenix Wright. Also just because Nintendogs has four versions out, five counting Best Friends, doesn't make it a bad game. The five best selling DS games worldwide are still great games (NSMB, Pokemon:D/P, Animal Crossing, Brain Age, and Nintendogs).

Also, I think Cooking Mama sold over 100,000 copies (big numbers for a niche title) in the US alone and it was a huge hit in Japan. It's certainly outsold any of the non quality kiddie games.

[62t]

well Pokemon will be out next year and that will be a huge blow to psp

[sarausagi]

Well the "kids who buy whatever" have always played a part in the Nintendo handheld market. The only company that never seemed to embrace that market was Microsoft. The thing is though is that even though a decent portion of the market is buying That's So Raven or Spongebob doesn't mean that people aren't buying New Super Mario Brothers or Phoenix Wright. Also just because Nintendogs has four versions out, five counting Best Friends, doesn't make it a bad game. The five best selling DS games worldwide are still great games (NSMB, Pokemon:D/P, Animal Crossing, Brain Age, and Nintendogs).

Also, I think Cooking Mama sold over 100,000 copies (big numbers for a niche title) in the US alone and it was a huge hit in Japan. It's certainly outsold any of the non quality kiddie games.

God, if DS is hot now, imagine what will happen when Pokemon comes out here? Makes me wonder if FF VII, Gran Turismo, Parappa coming out around the same time would change things...three huge titles with millions of fans might just be the trick.

[Thomas96]

Why does everyone see Strell as a fanboy for any system? He has shown spite towards any and all systems ever made in these forums. Obviously you havent paid much attention or are merely using fanboy to attack someones character as you have been backed into a corner by facts and numbers. You may as well start a thread is there still time for the gamecube to overtake the xbox.... PSP - slow death DS - good stable growth for now. The numbers do not lie. If you like PSP good for you...just enjoy it in your shrinking niche and leave your Delusions in the back of your mind.

Strell is a fanboy... and I guess you're his padawan... This is a message board young padawan, and we discuss topics... in this topic we're discussing the possibilty of the psp to overtake the DS. Presently, the psp is not that far behind the DS.. in the US... about 2 million.


fanboy quote of the day: "If you like PSP good for you...just enjoy it in your shrinking niche and leave your Delusions in the back of your mind."

which says to non fanboys - don't even fathom anything negative about the DS because then we ds- lovers get angry and defensive and all bitchy

[Shion]

The PSP failed and it's not going to catch up to the DS because from the get-go, Sony's vision of their portable was flawed.

Sony went after the portable gaming market with the same mindset as they do the home console market, to go after the hardcore gamers. But hardcore gamers love two things about their games, great looks, and deep/competitive gameplay. Both of which are better and optimized on a home console. Honestly speaking, I think to most hardcore gamers, having a portable is really more of a light hobby, any game a hardcore gamer takes seriously is a game he/she wants to play on a home tv with a stable and comfortable setup and few to no interruptions.

This is why Sony's PSP failed.

It went after an audience in an environment that audience considers secondary. It didn't help that many games were ports, and that load times were too high, AND controls were less than optimal... which is just sad considering that a handheld system by definition always has sub-optimal controls because you play it on-the-go and in varied environs.

It was significantly more expensive, AND tried to bait people's media needs, but actually, just spread itself thinner by trying to sell itself on media playing capabilities. It's not that hardcore gamers don't care about media players, it's just not very attractive when attached to a handheld gaming device.

Sorry PSP, unless the PS3 soars, but even then, you should be redesigned.

[furyk]

Strell is a fanboy... and I guess you're his padawan... This is a message board young padawan, and we discuss topics... in this topic we're discussing the possibilty of the psp to overtake the DS. Presently, the psp is not that far behind the DS.. in the US... about 2 million.

The problem with this statement is it doesn't take into account the fact that the PSP has been significantly outsold by the DS since the Lite came out. It's like the Saturn and the PS1 at this point. The Saturn sold well out of the gate in the US but eventually got raped by PS1 sales. Saying the PSP can catch the DS still is like saying that the Saturn could have caught the PS1 because it led sales once.

This isn't people discounting the PSP, this is people coming to terms with the fact the DS won't be caught by the PSP unless something serious changes in a redesign. People are pissed by your blindness to the situation. It's like you're arguing the Tampa Bay Bucs are a great team because they made the playoffs last year (despite the fact they're 3-11 this year).

I like my PSP. It's a fine system with a few serious flaws holding it back, the first of which is price and the second is load times. Yes, they are that bad especially when your DS has no load times and the games that are usually ten bucks cheaper upon release (and if you want to argue $40 DS games like FF3, lets bring in the $50 it'll cost to pick up SvR 07 or GTA: VCS). It's just that at the moment, early PSP sales were driven by excitement over Sony entering into the portable movement not by the games. There are still great games for the system, its just that it won't ever pass the DS again in the US unless there's a redesign.

[Roufuss]

It's like you're arguing the Tampa Bay Bucs are a great team because they made the playoffs last year (despite the fact they're 3-11 this year).
.

:cry:

[furyk]

I know. It kills me too :-(

[The Mana Knight]

The PSP failed and it's not going to catch up to the DS because from the get-go, Sony's vision of their portable was flawed.

Sony went after the portable gaming market with the same mindset as they do the home console market, to go after the hardcore gamers. But hardcore gamers love two things about their games, great looks, and deep/competitive gameplay. Both of which are better and optimized on a home console. Honestly speaking, I think to most hardcore gamers, having a portable is really more of a light hobby, any game a hardcore gamer takes seriously is a game he/she wants to play on a home tv with a stable and comfortable setup and few to no interruptions.

This is why Sony's PSP failed.

It went after an audience in an environment that audience considers secondary. It didn't help that many games were ports, and that load times were too high, AND controls were less than optimal... which is just sad considering that a handheld system by definition always has sub-optimal controls because you play it on-the-go and in varied environs.

It was significantly more expensive, AND tried to bait people's media needs, but actually, just spread itself thinner by trying to sell itself on media playing capabilities. It's not that hardcore gamers don't care about media players, it's just not very attractive when attached to a handheld gaming device.

Sorry PSP, unless the PS3 soars, but even then, you should be redesigned.PSP IS still selling, so it's not even dead yet. It may not be #1, but it continues to sell okay at its price point. Sony makes a profit on the PSP, and as long as they sell it, they probably won't drop it (It helps offset for PS3 loses).
well Pokemon will be out next year and that will be a huge blow to pspThere has been a few Pokemon's on DS, and they haven't done a whole lot. That might convince parents to get their kids a DS over a GBA, because whenever I go out, I still see parents wanting to buy their kids a GBA (because all they know is Gameboy, as a handheld. If anyone is pushing a DS on them (if a kid didn't ask for it), it's the store clerk because they'll mention it can play GBA games).
It's like you're arguing the Tampa Bay Bucs are a great team because they made the playoffs last year (despite the fact they're 3-11 this year).I don't see a problem with that. ;) I use to argue about how great the Chicago Bulls and Bears team was, over 3 years ago, despite them having losing records. ;) Luckily, they are winning now so I'm ecstatic. :D

[Thomas96]

The psp didn't fail.... it's not number one.. but it definitely didn't fail and it's definitely not a saturn or a dreamcast... in that case the xbox failed... or the gamecube failed... you don't have to be number one... and as a matter of fact, it's done better than anyother portable device versus the gameboy family which have basically been unopposed since about 1986, when I got my original gb brick.

I ask one more question... has Sony with what they got w/ the PSP done all they can do to at least give it s shot at being number one... to answer that myself... no.. no price drop, they didn't have a great library (they do now), plus ps2 games were being ported...

[defiance_17]

I ask one more question... has Sony with what they got w/ the PSP done all they can do to at least give it s shot at being number one...

That's not a question, nor is it a coherent sentence.

I'm going to assume you meant to ask, "Has Sony done everything it can to give the PSP a reasonable chance at winning this 'handheld war'?" Honestly, I don't think Sony understands why they're not dominating the market yet. I think the PSP has (had) the potential to be a lot greater than it is, at the very least in terms of how well-received it's been worldwide. Sony is too arrogant to even see their mistakes, much less own up to them.

And I don't see why everyone is getting so defensive, on either side. The title of this thread is "Is There still time for the PSP to overtake the DS." The short answer is very clearly, "No." There is no chance, not worldwide, not even in the U.S. That's not necessarily saying the DS is a better handheld, or that the PSP is unsuccessful.

There is plenty of time for the PSP to grow and improve its market share. There is time for it to get some original A-titles, games that will move thousands of systems single-handedly. But it will never "overtake" the DS. Get over it.

[Thomas96]

That's not a question, nor is it a coherent sentence.

I'm going to assume you meant to ask, "Has Sony done everything it can to give the PSP a reasonable chance at winning this 'handheld war'?" Honestly, I don't think Sony understands why they're not dominating the market yet. I think the PSP has (had) the potential to be a lot greater than it is, at the very least in terms of how well-received it's been worldwide. Sony is too arrogant to even see their mistakes, much less own up to them.

And I don't see why everyone is getting so defensive, on either side. The title of this thread is "Is There still time for the PSP to overtake the DS." The short answer is very clearly, "No." There is no chance, not worldwide, not even in the U.S. That's not necessarily saying the DS is a better handheld, or that the PSP is unsuccessful.

There is plenty of time for the PSP to grow and improve its market share. There is time for it to get some original A-titles, games that will move thousands of systems single-handedly. But it will never "overtake" the DS. Get over it.


mind you.. the psp blew the ds phat out of the water.. the DSL was released, w/ a redesign and a price drop... give the psp a redesign and a price drop and lets see what it does... give it a decent library, (which it has) and yes people get defensive when they start off w/ stfu...

[anomynous]

mind you.. the psp blew the ds phat out of the water.. the DSL was released, w/ a redesign and a price drop... give the psp a redesign and a price drop and lets see what it does... give it a decent library, (which it has) and yes people get defensive when they start off w/ stfu...
:lol: :lol: :lol: what world do you live in?

[Thomas96]

if the ds lite didn't come out, the psp would be number one right now... maybe...

oh yeah, the psp might get a redesign...

[whoknows]

if the ds lite didn't come out, the psp would be number one right now... maybe...

oh yeah, the psp might get a redesign...
I doubt it. The race might be more even in the US, but I doubt the PSP would be number one by very much, if at all.

Isn't is still somewhat close in the US though for DS/PSP sales?

[defiance_17]

In the U.S., as of September, the DS has sold ~6.2M units, 1.4M of those being DSLite.

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/wii/ds-pwns-september-207384.php

EDIT: 7.6M DS, 5.7M PSP. From the above link, it's safe to estimate 2.8M of the DS are DSLite.

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4362&Itemid=2

[naes]

PSP lost. Plain and simple.

[Demontooth]

I have both and I like both. Competition is good.

[The Mana Knight]

Think the PSP is struggling? Think again. Sony has told MCV that it is confident of selling one million units in the UK before the end of the year, safely securing its place as the second best-selling console of 2006.
After a raft of online fanboy disdain and hype surrounding its home console rivals, the PSP has managed to comfortably outsell both PS2 and Xbox 360 in 2006 – leaving its performance at UK retail second only to Nintendo’s DS.

“People mention us in the same breath as DS because we’re both handheld products, but we’re actually going after very different markets,” Sony UK’s commercial director Kevin Jowett told MCV. “We’ve put in just under £300 million of turnover at retail with PSP because we’re such a boys console and we’ve hit the mark with older gamers.”

The PSP arrived in the UK to much fanfare last September, and quickly became the fastest selling console the territory had ever seen. But the rise of the DS and the troubling performance of UMD have dampened enthusiasm surrounding the format.

However, ChartTrack’s statistics bear out the fact that 2006 has truly been the Year Of The Handheld – and that PSP has been a dominant force. And Sony sees much more to come next year.

Jowett added: “The evolution you’ll see on PSP will be greater than any console Sony has ever released, starting with new peripherals like the PSP camera, which is out in early 2007.”

http://www.mcvuk.com/PSP-to-hit-1m-UK-sales-in-2006
I have both and I like both. Competition is good.
I agree. That's why I'm more supportive of handhelds this time around, due to competition.

[furyk]

Um... yeah.

"While Wii enjoyed a hugely successful launch, Nintendo DS also had a record-breaking week with 515,000 units sold across Europe last week, which is not only the highest week's sales since the console’s launch but also the most any console across all formats has ever sold in a week! Nintendo’s handheld phenomenon has taken Europe by storm since its release in March 2005, with over 8.5 million consoles now sold across Europe. "

http://www.nintendo-europe.com/NOE/en/GB/news/article.do?elementId=pEUMLLwWPqv4Y7rEeokibLovlU42Y mDV

(I couldn't find numbers for the UK alone).

Also, if you read that a little closer it says "Sony has told MCV that it is confident of selling one million units in the UK before the end of the year, safely securing its place as the second best-selling console of 2006."

Notice that it doesn't say Sony has sold one million units in the UK. Also, what's the number one selling console in the region this past year like the article says?

While it is nice to see the PSP selling decently in the UK and across Europe, Sony has pissed away a lot of good will in the region. From the massively delayed launch of the PSP to the delay of the PS3 until "March", Sony seems to be treating Europe as second class citizens. This is contrary to the very public courting on Europe by both Microsoft and Nintendo.

[suffah]

Thomas96,

Your argument is flawed because you are assuming that the Nintendo wouldn't react to a price drop/re-design by Sony. If the PSP gets redesigned, then the NDS-ultra Lite comes out, etc etc etc, which is basically your argument. Very circular.

Realistically, it's impossible for NDS to lose to the PSP in marketshare now. I love the PSP and wish it had a little more success, but the DS is king and you guys are INSANE if you think it can surpass the DS in sales. Maybe if you only considered the NA continent it would be possible, but unless Sharp decides to stop manufacturing screens and there was some other shady business going on to stop production of DS's, it's not gonna happen.

[Thomas96]

Thomas96,

Your argument is flawed because you are assuming that the Nintendo wouldn't react to a price drop/re-design by Sony. If the PSP gets redesigned, then the NDS-ultra Lite comes out, etc etc etc, which is basically your argument. Very circular.

Realistically, it's impossible for NDS to lose to the PSP in marketshare now. I love the PSP and wish it had a little more success, but the DS is king and you guys are INSANE if you think it can surpass the DS in sales. Maybe if you only considered the NA continent it would be possible, but unless Sharp decides to stop manufacturing screens and there was some other shady business going on to stop production of DS's, it's not gonna happen.


I'll admit Japan is lost... but in the US, people like the psp, people bought the psp, but it didn't get fair support, for the first 6-7 months, all it got was silly ports of ps2 games.... Didn't get a good game until GTA VC, heck and Lumines was the system seller..... I think a redesigned psp would be good around April 22, 2007, when Pokemon diamond and pearl comes out. psp doesn't have to win the fight... psp is like cobra and G.I Joe is DS... we know Joe is gonna win, but cobra just needs to be there to spoil the party...

my argument is for the psp to make some moves... so far since it's release... there's been only one price drop... we just got some good games. no new colors, no emulated ps1 games for psp owners(w/o ps3), no redsign, no camera, no gbs (gps)... honeslty, sony should just make a psp w/ a touch screen, hard drive and two analog pads...

[hiccupleftovers]

if the ds lite didn't come out, the psp would be number one right now... maybe...

oh yeah, the psp might get a redesign...

You're out of your mind. The DS regardless of a redesign would be number one. It was leading into the PSP even with the summer months. It's just that the redesign propelled its status at an accelerated rate. If it was still the DS Phat (as you put it) right now around christmas, you'd still be seeing them sold out everywhere and PSP piling up. For every PSP game I buy, I get at least 3-4 mroe DS games.

[hiccupleftovers]

I'll admit Japan is lost... but in the US, people like the psp, people bought the psp, but it didn't get fair support, for the first 6-7 months, all it got was silly ports of ps2 games.... Didn't get a good game until GTA VC, heck and Lumines was the system seller..... I think a redesigned psp would be good around April 22, 2007, when Pokemon diamond and pearl comes out. psp doesn't have to win the fight... psp is like cobra and G.I Joe is DS... we know Joe is gonna win, but cobra just needs to be there to spoil the party...

my argument is for the psp to make some moves... so far since it's release... there's been only one price drop... we just got some good games. no new colors, no emulated ps1 games for psp owners(w/o ps3), no redsign, no camera, no gbs (gps)... honeslty, sony should just make a psp w/ a touch screen, hard drive and two analog pads...

A redesign with what people want will never happen so get that out of your head. It woudl fuck the consumers who have already bought the PSP. PSP should have come out with two analog sticks/sticks that raised out of the system and could be clicked in rather than a stupid nub thing that everybody hardly uses. A redesign with two analogs would fuck game makers also. All the people that I know who have PSPs use theirs for emulation.

[hiccupleftovers]

:lol: :lol: :lol: what world do you live in?

He's a fanboy, logic doesn't work for him. He's disillusioned at this point and still seeing his mirage.

[depascal22]

If the a redesigned PSP had dual analog sticks that stick up, then people would bitch 24/7 about their analog sticks that broke off. Stop bitching about what the DS and PSP don't have and embrace their unique qualities.

[mykevermin]

If the a redesigned PSP had dual analog sticks that stick up, then people would bitch 24/7 about their analog sticks that broke off. Stop bitching about what the DS and PSP don't have and embrace their unique qualities.

I have to second this. I can't quite grasp the complaints of the "it needs two analog sticks" crowd. It's not always perfect, sure, but I've seen and played a number of games that innovatively use the controls the PSP does have.

Nevertheless, people will continue to assert the very objectve truth that one system is inherently (I'm not talking sales, I'm talking de facto) better than the other. I, for one, think this thread needs to be dropped (I like the PSP as much as ol' Thomas, but he sure isn't a posterchild for anything but poor arguments) and/or locked. The natural problem, of course, is that a new thread will near-immediately rise in its place.

[The Mana Knight]

While it is nice to see the PSP selling decently in the UK and across Europe, Sony has pissed away a lot of good will in the region. From the massively delayed launch of the PSP to the delay of the PS3 until "March", Sony seems to be treating Europe as second class citizens. This is contrary to the very public courting on Europe by both Microsoft and Nintendo.Ah. no.

For one, Sony delayed the launch for the Europeans can actually have a GOOD launch, and not a rushed one. A good reason for delaying the PS3 in the U.K. has to do with how huge Singstar is throughout Europe (making sure it's a launch game). They'll be receiving what we did, plus Singstar, MotorStorm, VF5, and many others. Also, Sony has promised the country a good firmware upgrade, that adds tons of new features to PS3 and fixes other issues (it will debut in March, for the European launch). Sony is also allowing people in Europe to RESERVE their online name, unlike the U.S. and Japan (can only signup if you have a PS3). Sony still has a lot of internal studios throughout Europe (many in the U.K.) with lots of popularity, so Sony isn't pissing off people in the U.K. If anything, Sony is doing them a favor by not having to deal with a VERY limited number of consoles, rushed launch, etc. By delaying (similar to us getting PSP and PS2 later) PS3, we got a more refined launch while Japan got a mess.

Sorry furyk, I already know you're a Nintendo fanboy anyway.
A redesign with what people want will never happen so get that out of your head. It woudl fuck the consumers who have already bought the PSP. PSP should have come out with two analog sticks/sticks that raised out of the system and could be clicked in rather than a stupid nub thing that everybody hardly uses. A redesign with two analogs would fuck game makers also. All the people that I know who have PSPs use theirs for emulation.No, only one analog nub is needed. Dreamcast was JUST fine with one analog stick, so I don't see why two is needed for PSP. Also, using two on PSP would make controls even more complicated than they should be, on a handheld.

Not everyone uses their PSP for emulation. There's NOT one emulator running on my PSP (their ass anyway) and I use my PSP mostly for PSP games.
For every PSP game I buy, I get at least 3-4 mroe DS games.For every DS game I buy, I buy 3-4 PSP games (I have 14 DS games compared to 42 PSP games. I think PSP has better games; therefore, I own more for it).

[Thomas96]

You're out of your mind. The DS regardless of a redesign would be number one. It was leading into the PSP even with the summer months. It's just that the redesign propelled its status at an accelerated rate. If it was still the DS Phat (as you put it) right now around christmas, you'd still be seeing them sold out everywhere and PSP piling up. For every PSP game I buy, I get at least 3-4 mroe DS games.

Every system has to earn it's way..... the DS hasnt had to fight to be number one... it always has been basically since 1986.. so rather than assume what impact that psp will have, I say release a redesign, and just see what happens... and start it off at a price drop...

[Thomas96]

He's a fanboy, logic doesn't work for him. He's disillusioned at this point and still seeing his mirage.



well someone has to think of something... you'd have us playing mario, mario kart, and pokemon for the next 80 years...

[rickonker]

well someone has to think of something... you'd have us playing mario, mario kart, and pokemon for the next 80 years...
This may be the best post Thomas96 has made in this thread...

[defiance_17]

well someone has to think of something... you'd have us playing mario, mario kart, and pokemon for the next 80 years...

I sincerely hope you're not implying that the the PSP is somehow more innovative than the DS...

[furyk]

Ah. no.

For one, Sony delayed the launch for the Europeans can actually have a GOOD launch, and not a rushed one. A good reason for delaying the PS3 in the U.K. has to do with how huge Singstar is throughout Europe (making sure it's a launch game). They'll be receiving what we did, plus Singstar, MotorStorm, VF5, and many others. Also, Sony has promised the country a good firmware upgrade, that adds tons of new features to PS3 and fixes other issues (it will debut in March, for the European launch). Sony is also allowing people in Europe to RESERVE their online name, unlike the U.S. and Japan (can only signup if you have a PS3). Sony still has a lot of internal studios throughout Europe (many in the U.K.) with lots of popularity, so Sony isn't pissing off people in the U.K. If anything, Sony is doing them a favor by not having to deal with a VERY limited number of consoles, rushed launch, etc. By delaying (similar to us getting PSP and PS2 later) PS3, we got a more refined launch while Japan got a mess.

Three things.

1. Let me just reiterate what you said. Sony is doing Europe a favor by delaying the system. That has to be the most asinine argument ever. It's got two ways of being interpreted. The first is by launching buggy and screwed up units in Japan and the United States, Sony doesn't care about either region. They care about Europe because they aren't launching screwed up units to them.... or they don't care about Europe as much as the US and Japan. What sounds like the most likely scenario?

2. The PSP wasn't delayed by a month or two month in Europe. It was launched six months after the US launch (which was launched only two after the Japanese launch, FYI) which did have a bunch of great games at launch like Wipeout, Luminese, and Metal Gear Ac!d. What was Sony's reasoning for it? High demand for the system.... for six months after launch. Even 360 demand tapered off by March (and that was fueled by the Christmas rush). The PSP was not in high demand over the Summer of 2005 anywhere. It sold well in the US yes, but not well enough to justify delaying the European launch six months.

3. It's nice to know that you're hyperly defending the PS3 with opinions about what Europe thinks. As an American (I'm guessing you are too) I see how Sony treats us in terms of supply. I also see how Microsoft stationed X0# conferences in Europe, and how the biggest European developer, Ubi Soft, has tossed tons of games at the Wii and not the PS3 or PSP. Anyone who thinks that Sony has been doing any favors to Europe must have gone blind during the whole Lik Sang debacle.

Sorry furyk, I already know you're a Nintendo fanboy anyway.

OH MAN. THAT HURT! Unlike most people posting in this thread who aren't squarely in the Sony camp, I have a PSP. I've also offered opinions that just don't go down into name calling. But being called a fanboy by a fanboy. I need some Neosporin because that just cut me the fuck up.

No, only one analog nub is needed. Dreamcast was JUST fine with one analog stick, so I don't see why two is needed for PSP. Also, using two on PSP would make controls even more complicated than they should be, on a handheld.

Having one analog nub it's the problem, it's having a nub period. The nub just doesn't have the type of comfort or control a stick itself would have. I have no idea how they'd design a stick for a portable unit (short of something that popped into the actual unit), but the nub has got to go if there is a redesign. I suggest that Sony look at the stick on the Neo Geo Pocket Color and make it a bit less "arcadey" if (and hopefully) when they redesign the unit.

Not everyone uses their PSP for emulation. There's NOT one emulator running on my PSP (their ass anyway) and I use my PSP mostly for PSP games.

Neither do I. I hate emulation, and it really shouldn't be brought up into a conversation about the portable systems.

For every DS game I buy, I buy 3-4 PSP games (I have 14 DS games compared to 42 PSP games. I think PSP has better games; therefore, I own more for it).

And I like the DS more then the PSP because I think the DS has better games and consequently own more games for my DS. If that makes me a Nintendo fanboy, then so be it.

[furyk]

I sincerely hope you're not implying that the the PSP is somehow more innovative than the DS...

Nah, it seems like he's implying that the PSP has done more for innovative gaming then Nintendo has over the past 20+ years.

[Thomas96]

Nah, it seems like he's implying that the PSP has done more for innovative gaming then Nintendo has over the past 20+ years.


YES! I'm implying that the PSP has done more innovative things for a handheld gaming device since 1986. The gb, gba, gb sb, has all done the same exact thing, same nes, and snes games. The only new thing that the ds brought to the table is the touch screen. PSP, has web brouser, basic mp3 function, movie watching function, basically a portable ps2, downloadable games.... online games... thanks to the psp, the the next ds will have to add those things if it even wants the slightest chance of being successful.... also, psp has better library of games overall... whereas the ds, has a couple of hits.. mario, mario kart... same old nes, and snes games that's been driving nintendo all these years... so here it is... PSP is more Innovated than the DS... by a long shot!

[furyk]

YES! I'm implying that the PSP has done more innovative things for a handheld gaming device since 1986. The gb, gba, gb sb, has all done the same exact thing, same nes, and snes games. The only new thing that the ds brought to the table is the touch screen. PSP, has web brouser, basic mp3 function, movie watching function, basically a portable ps2, downloadable games.... online games... thanks to the psp, the the next ds will have to add those things if it even wants the slightest chance of being successful.... also, psp has better library of games overall... whereas the ds, has a couple of hits.. mario, mario kart... same old nes, and snes games that's been driving nintendo all these years... so here it is... PSP is more Innovated than the DS... by a long shot!

Quoted for insanity.

[Thomas96]

and sony really stifiled the psp's innovation... by not allowing homebrew, and that's part of the reason why they're not number one. I definitely thing for the next psp, it needs to run a pocket linux pc type program... as an OS You guys give DS too much credit... it sold well, yeah, because there was no opposition.. DS finally brought some new games to the table, but the rest of the gb lineup was just ports... ports and more ports...

[furyk]

]You guys give DS too much credit... it sold well, yeah, because there was no opposition.. DS finally brought some new games to the table, but the rest of the gb lineup was just ports... ports and more ports...

Says the PSP supporter. What games are ports on the DS anyways? Actually, I'm not curious at all. I just love watching you post right now.

[defiance_17]

YES! I'm implying that the PSP has done more innovative things for a handheld gaming device since 1986. The gb, gba, gb sb, has all done the same exact thing, same nes, and snes games. The only new thing that the ds brought to the table is the touch screen. PSP, has web brouser, basic mp3 function, movie watching function, basically a portable ps2, downloadable games.... online games... thanks to the psp, the the next ds will have to add those things if it even wants the slightest chance of being successful.... also, psp has better library of games overall... whereas the ds, has a couple of hits.. mario, mario kart... same old nes, and snes games that's been driving nintendo all these years... so here it is... PSP is more Innovated than the DS... by a long shot!

Do I give a shit about a web browser in a handheld gaming device? MP3 capabilities? UMD support? Fuck. No. I feel like a big enough douchebag walking around with my iPod, you certainly won't catch me with a PDA (or whatever the hell they're called now). Tacking on a bunch of useless, poorly-implemented features is hardly innovation.

[rickonker]

The one thing I agree with is that the DS hardware is not really innovative. From what I hear the games are though.

[mykevermin]

Do I give a shit about a web browser in a handheld gaming device? MP3 capabilities? UMD support? Fuck. No. I feel like a big enough douchebag walking around with my iPod, you certainly won't catch me with a PDA (or whatever the hell they're called now). Tacking on a bunch of useless, poorly-implemented features is hardly innovation.

I'm not sure I'd hop on the "I don't use them so they must be crap features" bandwagon with you. If Sony had developed something software side with the simplicity of iTunes to help distribute movies and PS1 games, or to help you convert and copy videos to your memory card, then those parts of the machine would be exceptionally innovative. It's like saying because mp3 existed before iPods that the latter isn't innovative.

Of course, their problem was that they assume too much about the techincal savvy of the average person (the competing argument would be that they simply made shitty software on the system side). I know how to convert a video to work on my PSP and copy it, but it's still through finding and using third-party software, as well as finding video files to change (which assumes a user knows how to rip DVDs or use torrents if they want to get their own files), and finally finding the right fucking folder to put it in. In the end, video on the PSP is either (1) too expensive (UMD) or (2) too much effort (ripping, converting, and copying). If Sony could produce software to do all this hassle-free, and let us manage files b/w a PC and PSP, that would be a big boon to their business, IMO.

I'd also like to see the UMD movies in a different section than next to PSP games. I hate looking through that shit, b/c I won't buy them. That's a little thing, though.

[Thomas96]

Says the PSP supporter. What games are ports on the DS anyways? Actually, I'm not curious at all. I just love watching you post right now.




ds had a super mario 64 port...


I bought the DS cause I wanted to play new super mario brothers, and I have to admit the game was tight, but why... was that game, w/ only 8 levels, and about 3 cheesy touch screen games.. 39.99, when the game wasn't even as big, as Super Mario Brothers 3. Nintendo has much time, for innovation, when they're only giving you about 1/3rd the game... now enjoy that...

[furyk]

ds had a super mario 64 port...


I bought the DS cause I wanted to play new super mario brothers, and I have to admit the game was tight, but why... was that game, w/ only 8 levels, and about 3 cheesy touch screen games.. 39.99, when the game wasn't even as big, as Super Mario Brothers 3. Nintendo has much time, for innovation, when they're only giving you about 1/3rd the game... now enjoy that...

I'm pretty sure that New Super Mario Brothers had...

*spoilers*

more then eight levels. If you meant 8 "worlds" that'd be different. Funny thing. Super Mario Brothers 3 also had eight worlds. By the way, who the fuck paid $39.99 for that game? $24 first week in release.

Also, you've listed one game. You said games.

[hupp]

I think the ds will always own the psp but I think the psp will have a longer lifespan. I expect Nintendo to get another handheld out on the market by 2010.

[depascal22]

Says the PSP supporter. What games are ports on the DS anyways? Actually, I'm not curious at all. I just love watching you post right now.

I got into this with a couple people last year. The DS doesn't have exact ports but many of their games are just "sequels" with touch screen capabilities. Some, like NSMB, add a new mushroom and change up the levels a bit and call it a "sequel". Mario Kart DS plays just like all the other Karts and even has old levels. Every one loves it because it's fun but no one badmouths it for being unoriginal. I'm not saying these aren't great games but people need to come off of their pedestal when talking about the DS not having ports. Feel free to flame away.

[defiance_17]

I'm not sure I'd hop on the "I don't use them so they must be crap features" bandwagon with you. If Sony had developed something software side with the simplicity of iTunes to help distribute movies and PS1 games, or to help you convert and copy videos to your memory card, then those parts of the machine would be exceptionally innovative. It's like saying because mp3 existed before iPods that the latter isn't innovative.

Of course, their problem was that they assume too much about the techincal savvy of the average person (the competing argument would be that they simply made shitty software on the system side). I know how to convert a video to work on my PSP and copy it, but it's still through finding and using third-party software, as well as finding video files to change (which assumes a user knows how to rip DVDs or use torrents if they want to get their own files), and finally finding the right fucking folder to put it in. In the end, video on the PSP is either (1) too expensive (UMD) or (2) too much effort (ripping, converting, and copying). If Sony could produce software to do all this hassle-free, and let us manage files b/w a PC and PSP, that would be a big boon to their business, IMO.

I'd also like to see the UMD movies in a different section than next to PSP games. I hate looking through that shit, b/c I won't buy them. That's a little thing, though.
I wasn't trying to say the features are crap, necessarily, and I apologize if that's how it came across. Would I appreciate a simple way to listen to music and watch movies on a handheld gaming device? Probably. I don't see said features influencing my purchasing decision, however, because I'm looking to play games. Anything else would simply be a bonus.
I think Sony has put way too much stock in these "extras," and they're just not good enough to be justified at this point. Maybe the PSP2 will get it down, but even then, without a stronger game library, it's not really going to matter.

[The Mana Knight]

Says the PSP supporter. What games are ports on the DS anyways? Actually, I'm not curious at all. I just love watching you post right now.Ridge Racer DS is a port of the N64 Ridge Racer. Ridge Racer on PSP crushes Ridge Racer DS in everyway, and it isn't a port.
I got into this with a couple people last year. The DS doesn't have exact ports but many of their games are just "sequels" with touch screen capabilities. Some, like NSMB, add a new mushroom and change up the levels a bit and call it a "sequel". Mario Kart DS plays just like all the other Karts and even has old levels. Every one loves it because it's fun but no one badmouths it for being unoriginal. I'm not saying these aren't great games but people need to come off of their pedestal when talking about the DS not having ports. Feel free to flame away.
QFT. Most all DS games are just sequels to GBA, with a dual screen and sometimes touch controls (normally, the touch controls are useless, like for New Super Mario Bros.).
I'm pretty sure that New Super Mario Brothers had...

*spoilers*

more then eight levels. If you meant 8 "worlds" that'd be different. Funny thing. Super Mario Brothers 3 also had eight worlds. By the way, who the fuck paid $39.99 for that game? $24 first week in release.

Also, you've listed one game. You said games.
NSMB is a disgrace to Mario. It was the only DS game I really, really wanted in the 1st half of the year, and bought it on release (for $26). All I gotta say is that it was the worst purchase ever. Daxter is a superior platformer in every single way. Seriously, I was very hyped for the game because I absolutely loved 2D Mario games in the past, and was hoping it would be just as good. Glad I traded NSMB in and got $22 for it (used the money to buy DDR SuperNOVA on PS2). I just hope Yoshi's Island 2 doesn't disappoint, since I got it for Christmas.

[furyk]

Ridge Racer DS is a port of the N64 Ridge Racer. Ridge Racer on PSP crushes Ridge Racer DS in everyway, and it isn't a port.

RIIIIIIIIDDDDDGGGGEEE RACER!

QFT. Most all DS games are just sequels to GBA, with a dual screen and sometimes touch controls (normally, the touch controls are useless, like for New Super Mario Bros.).

And most PSP games are ports of PS2 games (or collections) that add in a few new features and double-triple the load times.

All I gotta say is that (New Super Mario Brothers) was the worst purchase ever.

Well... you did buy a PSP.

[depascal22]

I present to you:

Lumines series
LocoRoco
Metal Gear AC!D series
Guilty Gear Judgement
Metal Gear Portable Ops
Every Extend Extra
Darkstalkers
Mercury
Exit
Killzone (changed from 1st person to 3rd person)

Last time I checked these aren't ports. You'll have a list the same size for DS so please get off your fanboy perch and put down the Mountain Dew before you hurt yourself. You can't use an unbalanced argument against the PSP and claim you're right. If you want to go after the loading time, battery life, lack of dual analog sticks, scratchablity of the screen, or overall cost, then be my guest. But you're bashing the library and claiming that PSP games are unoriginal ports of PS2 games. That's partially right but look at the DS library and the ten Pokemon games, the six Mario spin offs, two Metroids, etc. and you could come to the same conclusion for DS. So we're just saying come up with another argument before you lose credibility. Please, for once, come up with something other "PSP sux cuz itz got nutin but portz" crap. I'm just tired of the old argument.

[furyk]

Nah, I'm actually enjoying trolling Thomas96 and Mana Knight simply because they want to devolve this conversation into fanboy trolling. They really shouldn't give a shit what I have to say. I just find it annoying that when I say Sony has treated Europe like they're not important I get accused of being a fanboy. If that's how they want to talk, then fuck. I'll play the DS fanboy shitting on their parade even though I'm playing the slots on Capcom Classics Collection Reloaded while posting. It's a fucking message board. Who gives a shit whether or not someone does or doesn't like the PSP. You guys do! There's a lot of problems with it, but hell, there's a lot of problems with every game system. All that matters is that you have fun with it. If you really need to defend the realm to justify your purchase then please, kill yourself. You're not living a life worth living.

Also both Darkstalkers and Guilty Gear Judgement are both upgraded ports (GG is a port of XX and the Darkstalkers collection was on the Dreamcast) so you might want to trim that list just a little bit. :)

[depascal22]

Nah, I'm actually enjoying trolling Thomas96 and Mana Knight simply because they want to devolve this conversation into fanboy trolling. They really shouldn't give a shit what I have to say. I just find it annoying that when I say Sony has treated Europe like they're not important I get accused of being a fanboy. If that's how they want to talk, then fuck. I'll play the DS fanboy shitting on their parade even though I'm playing the slots on Capcom Classics Collection Reloaded while posting. It's a fucking message board. Who gives a shit whether or not someone does or doesn't like the PSP. You guys do! There's a lot of problems with it, but hell, there's a lot of problems with every game system. All that matters is that you have fun with it. If you really need to defend the realm to justify your purchase then please, kill yourself. You're not living a life worth living.

Also both Darkstalkers and Guilty Gear Judgement are both upgraded ports (GG is a port of XX and the Darkstalkers collection was on the Dreamcast) so you might want to trim that list just a little bit. :)

XX didn't have the Judgement minigame. So I'll leave it on there. I'll take off Darkstalkers though.

I'm bored at work and when I get bored I get delusions of grandeur. I think that everyone's reading this thread and everyone cares about what I'm thinking at the moment. It's the only thing that gets me through a 12 hour shift that only gets busy when someone gets hurt. Anyone need their ankle or hip fixed? I need something to do.

[furyk]

I care what you're thinking depascal. Christ, that's the worst though. I used to work night shifts at a desk for my dorm. So much boredom. Thankfully though, message boards and IRC chats with lots of Aussies makes the night go a bit faster.

And yeah, flamebaiting people on message boards is an assholey thing to do... still, I had a bad day and gamers' nerd rage makes me laugh. The PSP is much more then PS2 ports and collections. It also makes a nice paperweight.

Also the DS is great for puppet shows. Take that PSP.

[trip1eX]

Well the Ds lite has run away with sales here in the US. IT's outselling the PSp 2-1 minimum. I would think that is going to attract lots of Western interest for the DS whereas before there wasn't as much because sales were more even and most thought the PSP would easily win the battle. If you figure 1 year to make a game then starting next summer you should see more 3rd party DS games.

Also if you look now you can't find a DS lite anywhere. Walmart? CC? BB? Target? Kmart? Sold out. You can find PSPs pretty easily.

That being said the PSP isn't doing horribly here in the US. It sold 500,00 units in November which ain't bad even though the DS Lite sold a million.

It's all over in Japan because the next DS is on the DS and in Europe I think it's all over for the PSP also. IN the US? There's still hope that it will sell enough to keep developers making games for it.

[hiccupleftovers]

Every system has to earn it's way..... the DS hasnt had to fight to be number one... it always has been basically since 1986.. so rather than assume what impact that psp will have, I say release a redesign, and just see what happens... and start it off at a price drop...
Again, you're a disillusioned fanboy. Game Boy line of systems has had to fought every way except for maybe the GBA and no matter who came upto the plate, they always batted a thousand. Game Gear gone; Wonderswan no more; Lynx, etc. etc. etc. etc. Obscure etc. etc.

And I don't think a redesign would necessarily jump start sales like the DS Lite. Perhaps a massive price reduction, but nothing short of that. Oh and maybe some actual games and less ports.

[hiccupleftovers]

well someone has to think of something... you'd have us playing mario, mario kart, and pokemon for the next 80 years...

Excellent argument. I much prefer every other sequel and port (excluding Valkyrie Profile since that game is hell hard and rare to find on the PS1 and this one is basically a redone version) existing on the PSP which is the competition. And don't make me go into listing all of them just for you.

At least with the Marios Nintendo attempts to add something to it to make it seem fresh or different (and New Super Mario Bros was great). Pokemon are just simple addictive games.

[mykevermin]

Nah, I'm actually enjoying trolling Thomas96 and Mana Knight simply because they want to devolve this conversation into fanboy trolling.

Well... you did buy a PSP.

et tu, furyk?

[hiccupleftovers]

Not everyone uses their PSP for emulation. There's NOT one emulator running on my PSP (their ass anyway) and I use my PSP mostly for PSP games.
For every DS game I buy, I buy 3-4 PSP games (I have 14 DS games compared to 42 PSP games. I think PSP has better games; therefore, I own more for it).

Looking past your Europe Sony comments:roll: and onto this part, then I'd probably say I have about 40-50+ DS games to around10-20 (range) PSP games.

[furyk]

et tu, furyk?

Of course. I said I was trolling. I just started trolling when they turned it (again) into "if you argue with me, you're a fanboy". Consequently, the best way to troll a PSP board is to mention ports, price, load times, and battery life. Besides, saying that New Super Mario Brothers is the worst game you've ever purchased is like saying it's better winning a 7 million jackpot then a 5 million dollar one. It's still a fantastic game that stacks up better then anything besides Super Mario World (play SMB 3 and NSMB back to back some time and see which one you enjoy more).

Like I've said twenty other times in this thread, I own a PSP and I don't regret buying it. I think the best platformer of the year was on the PSP (Mega Man Powered Up) as well as a bunch of other good to great games.

[mykevermin]

Of course. I said I was trolling. I just started trolling when they turned it (again) into "if you argue with me, you're a fanboy". Consequently, the best way to troll a PSP board is to mention ports, price, load times, and battery life.

Like I've said twenty other times in this thread, I own a PSP and I don't regret buying it. I think the best platformer of the year was on the PSP (Mega Man Powered Up) as well as a bunch of other good to great games.

I suppose, but to (1) troll and (2) pull the "they started it" attitude is just puerile. I'm no saint, but I do my best to let those people be who they want. I'm disappointed that people live in this world serving as brand ambassadors for a product they aren't being paid to promote, and that this also involves disparaging the competition as inherently and objectively unworthy.

I dunno if I agree about MM: Powered Up. That Iceman level was ported accurately enough that I was often tempted to hurl my goddamned PSP across the room and into the wall. NES controllers are much more durable and cheaper than PSP consoles, so that reflex had to go quickly.

I enjoy both my DS and PSP; neither is any better or worse, however, based on the other system. Of course, more sales and games leads to more game development, but when I think of the PSP, I don't think "boy, I want Gradius Collection because DS sucks my balls!" I think "Gradius Collection for $20? Fuckin' A!"

In the end, I just can't deal with this bullshit application of sports support into the real life. I'm a Reds fan, so I fuckin' hate the Cardinals, and I'm a Bengals fan, so I fuckin' hate the Steelers. But I recognize that is foolish in that case alone, and don't let that go into "I'm a PSP fan, so I fuckin' hate the DS; I'm a 360 fan, so I hate the fuckin' PS3; I'm a liberal, so I fuckin' hate all Republicans" kinda garbage. Let the pettiness rest in pro sports, the perfect domain for the petty. Instead, buy a game system on the traits you like, the games you like.

Play the fuck out of it, and don't look back. End of story.

[TLR]

That's a nice list he had on his link but it doesn't help the PSP one bit. If my daughter brought home a report card full of B's and C's( which is what the rankings on that list come out to), there would be hell to pay. There were only two games that came out at exactly 90%, Lumines and the sequel. Oh, and any list that gives an "honorable mention" deserves to be buried at the bottom of the sea. I love my PSP but we're nearly at the end of the second full year and we're still not seeing a "killer app".

I know this is a pretty old post to respond to, but I don't think the scores alone mean too much, especially considering that the PSP lineup has a terrific lead over the DS in a comparison of quality software where quantity is not considered, yet sells less.

http://xevon.awardspace.com/pspstuff/PSPvsDS.html

If that were a realistic and valid expression, PSP would be the only choice, as the alternative would be your daughter bringing home a report card full of Cs, Ds and Fs...

[Thomas96]

Again, you're a disillusioned fanboy. Game Boy line of systems has had to fought every way except for maybe the GBA and no matter who came upto the plate, they always batted a thousand. Game Gear gone; Wonderswan no more; Lynx, etc. etc. etc. etc. Obscure etc. etc.

And I don't think a redesign would necessarily jump start sales like the DS Lite. Perhaps a massive price reduction, but nothing short of that. Oh and maybe some actual games and less ports.



the gb didnt have to fight game gear... it took 8 batteries, and lasted only an hour... what chance did it actually have to succeed? The psp is the only other handheld system that's giving he gameboy line some sort of competition. The gameboy was already too established, by the time the gamegear came out...gb was cheaper, had more games, and w/ 4 batteries, you could almost leave the thing on for a week.

that's right... more actual games and less ports for the psp... why? because the psp is held to a high standard than any gb, or ds, ever has... for psp games to sale, they need to push the hardware, and that's why now.. we're seeing ps2 graphics on the system... examples. tomb raider anniversary, metal gear portable ops, final fantasy crisis core, gta vcs, virtual tennis, ridge racer, tekken dark ressurection... you get the point...

[furyk]

I suppose, but to (1) troll and (2) pull the "they started it" attitude is just puerile. I'm no saint, but I do my best to let those people be who they want. I'm disappointed that people live in this world serving as brand ambassadors for a product they aren't being paid to promote, and that this also involves disparaging the competition as inherently and objectively unworthy.

Nah, you got it backwards. They started it and then consequently, I started to troll because I'm an asshole and was annoyed. It's like having a conversation with daddy. You can only argue with his shitty logic before you just get annoyed.

I dunno if I agree about MM: Powered Up. That Iceman level was ported accurately enough that I was often tempted to hurl my goddamned PSP across the room and into the wall. NES controllers are much more durable and cheaper than PSP consoles, so that reflex had to go quickly.

I've gotta be the only person in the world who isn't frusterated by the Ice Man level. Guts Man and Elec Man piss me off much more.

I enjoy both my DS and PSP; neither is any better or worse, however, based on the other system. Of course, more sales and games leads to more game development, but when I think of the PSP, I don't think "boy, I want Gradius Collection because DS sucks my balls!" I think "Gradius Collection for $20? Fuckin' A!"

Exactly, though I do find myself buying PSP games only if they're 30 bucks or less these days. I think the A over B situation comes only when you've got two big releases in a week. I think the closest we've come to that is when Castlevania/Kirby launched the same week as MG: PO, but those games are just so different that comparing the two is silly. I don't feel like the two systems are actively competing even with a release schedule these days.

In the end, I just can't deal with this bullshit application of sports support into the real life. I'm a Reds fan, so I fuckin' hate the Cardinals, and I'm a Bengals fan, so I fuckin' hate the Steelers. But I recognize that is foolish in that case alone, and don't let that go into "I'm a PSP fan, so I fuckin' hate the DS; I'm a 360 fan, so I hate the fuckin' PS3; I'm a liberal, so I fuckin' hate all Republicans" kinda garbage. Let the pettiness rest in pro sports, the perfect domain for the petty. Instead, buy a game system on the traits you like, the games you like.

Play the fuck out of it, and don't look back. End of story.

Exactly. The problem is that people feel like they need to validate their purchase by picking up a drum and beating it. I only post in the Playstation and Nintendo forums because *shock* I buy Nintendo and Sony products. I don't have nor until recently did I plan on buying a 360 (Virtua Fighter might change that though) so I don't post there. I don't play PC games at all so I don't post in the PC forums. It's not that hard a concept to get. The problem ends up being is either fanboys from camp A invade camp B or fanboys in camp B delude themselves into thinking their product is beyond criticism. In both cases, the shit hits the fan.

[furyk]

that's right... more actual games and less ports for the psp... why? because the psp is held to a high standard than any gb, or ds, ever has... for psp games to sale, they need to push the hardware, and that's why now.. we're seeing ps2 graphics on the system... examples. tomb raider anniversary, metal gear portable ops, final fantasy crisis core, gta vcs, virtual tennis, ridge racer, tekken dark ressurection... you get the point...

Why is it held to a higher standard though? It's not because it's a handheld, it's because it costs the same as a PS2 game. The DS/GBA/GBC/GB games have always been in the $20-30 range. I found when the initial third party DS games costed $40 that if they weren't great games, they were bullshit and sucked. Tons of people trashed on the initial DS line up because the damn things costed too much. Even FF3 at $40 is retarded. I (and many others) refuse to pay $40 and upwards for a handheld game unless it's absolutely fantastic. That's why lots of people haven't played the original PSP titles, Untold Legends, Legend of Heroes, and so forth.

[Wolfpup]

Well the Ds lite has run away with sales here in the US. IT's outselling the PSp 2-1 minimum.

No it's not, that's false.

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4343&Itemid=2

The DS in November was less than 2:1, and the installed base is 8.3million compared to 6.5million for the PSP.

They've both sold really, really well, and they're both fantastic systems.

[Thomas96]

Why is it held to a higher standard though? It's not because it's a handheld, it's because it costs the same as a PS2 game. The DS/GBA/GBC/GB games have always been in the $20-30 range. I found when the initial third party DS games costed $40 that if they weren't great games, they were bullshit and sucked. Tons of people trashed on the initial DS line up because the damn things costed too much. Even FF3 at $40 is retarded. I (and many others) refuse to pay $40 and upwards for a handheld game unless it's absolutely fantastic. That's why lots of people haven't played the original PSP titles, Untold Legends, Legend of Heroes, and so forth.


well... the psp was a 249.99 system... all of sony products are more expensive and they're held to a higher standart... As it should be!!! I paid 249.99 for the psp... so I definetly want sony to put out every game and product they can for the psp.

[trip1eX]

No it's not, that's false.

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4343&Itemid=2

The DS in November was less than 2:1, and the installed base is 8.3million compared to 6.5million for the PSP.

They've both sold really, really well, and they're both fantastic systems.

Those are some other f'd up numbers. From your article "The analyst bases its numbers on retail surveys, although these are less definitive than NPD’s numbers, due out later this week."

Go look at NPDs. ~1 million to ~500,00. 2:1 or close enough.

I think you're preaching to the choir . Your numbers say 600,000 to 350,000. Even if we go with those numbers which aren't as industry standard as the NPD's, the DS lite is still greatly outselling at the moment and yet the PSP is still moving units. That was my point and what I posted.

[depascal22]

This is going to go on forever. It'll never really change because the video game industry is one of the few industries where the purchasers aren't necessarily the users. You see alot of parents out there buying games for their kids and that influences the numbers more than anything. If you have a teenager, buy him/her a PSP. Then buy them the same games that they play on the PS2. Got a pre-teen? Buy him/her a DS in the appropriate color for their gender. Then buy the licensed games for the TV shows that they watch.

You could look at numbers all day but most hardcore gamers have both anyway. I think most of the people that have posted so far have both systems. I'll say it again. Enjoy both systems and play the hell out of them. The competition between the two will bring out better games as the years go on. Then, maybe we'll get the revisions we so desperately want.

[rickonker]

I don't have either system, but I'm leaning towards the PSP. One widescreen is just so much better than two regular screens. But I don't know how good an FPS on the PSP would be without two analog sticks.

[whoknows]

I don't have either system, but I'm leaning towards the PSP. One widescreen is just so much better than two regular screens. But I don't know how good an FPS on the PSP would be without two analog sticks.
Some of them are good some are terrible, make sure you read reviews before you buy one.

[rickonker]

Some of them are good some are terrible, make sure you read reviews before you buy one.
I tried reading some reviews but they're not really clear on how it works compared to the two analog stick method. One thing I remember is that one game used the face buttons for moving and the analog stick for aiming. This sounds ok except it's in reverse.

[whoknows]

I tried reading some reviews but they're not really clear on how it works compared to the two analog stick method. One thing I remember is that one game used the face buttons for moving and the analog stick for aiming. This sounds ok except it's in reverse.
I hear Medal of Honor plays pretty well. I don't own it myself, maybe someone that does can explain the controls?

People say Coded Arms plays poorly, but I also hear that the controls are fully customizable, so I don't know whats going on there.

[Thomas96]

I don't have either system, but I'm leaning towards the PSP. One widescreen is just so much better than two regular screens. But I don't know how good an FPS on the PSP would be without two analog sticks.



the only FPS I've played is Coded Arms, the control scheme (default) worked well.. honestly, psp's control scheme for FPSs are basically kinda like the control scheme from the N64.

[2Fast]

I just read most of this thread (can't sleep) and boy does my brain ache.

Anyway, as the very recent adopter of a PSP, I can't really say much for the system and it's functions really being worth the price, but I can say that the price of admission is definitely holding it back. I always admired the PSP's capabilities, games, and whatnot, but the price was always too ridiculous (especially when compared to it's competition) for me to jump on-board.

Now I'm fairly young (20) and have a pretty good amount of money in the bank for my age (17K), but I'll be damned if I'm going to pay $200 for the system itself (luckily my gf did ;)), $50-$70 for a decent memory stick (to utilize extra functions), and about $100 for a decent game library. This has been said about a trillion times in this thread, but Sony, please for the love of all that is holy, drop the goddamn price already!

Simply put, superior system/brand/games or not, price is what matters here. People aren't looking at handhelds as an equal to consoles (which the PSP's price indicates and fucks them more by putting them in the ballpark with Apple media players), so if someone sees a $70 price difference, you betta believe they're gonna chose the cheaper alternative a resounding majority of the time, regardless.

Drop the PSP's price to $150, Sony first-party memory stick's down by at least $10 a piece, all software by at least $5, and I think they can gain some ground. Also, some computer software to better utilize the media functions would be nice :D

[Wolfpup]

I don't have either system, but I'm leaning towards the PSP. One widescreen is just so much better than two regular screens. But I don't know how good an FPS on the PSP would be without two analog sticks.

Not as good, but depending on the game they play fine.

Syphon Filter isn't really a first person shooter-basically a tactical shooter like Splinter Cell or whatever, but it plays and looks great (I enjoyed it more than Chaos Theory). It's skewed more towards the action side than Splinter Cell-like you can use stealth, but if you screw up you can just switch to guns blazing and be okay too.

That Sean Connery Bond game played fine, except it wasn't a very good game (just made for a decent rental IMO). Just kind of generic.

Coded Arms was the first FPS on the system, and from the review it says the control is okay if you change it to aim with the stick, but the game itself stinks.

More recent games like Metal of Honor, etc. are supposed to be good or okay.

Of course, in the case of FPS, it's not like there's much alternative for portables. Ones I've played on the DS work best if they're designed that you don't need razer precision so you can just use the digital controls and ignore the touch screen (Goldeneye: Rogue Agent-also not worth more than the $5 I payed for it). Metroid Prime Hunters sucks as it's not a Metroid game (it really is just an FPS), it demands more precision than the digital controls provide, and the analog control is horribly clunky. (Plus obviously the PSP is in a whole different generation in terms of hardware so it's better suited for FPS.)

EDIT: Another thought- The "N64" control scheme works on the PSP, but it's not as good as the N64 c-buttons were actually designed almost exactly like a normal game pad rather than regular buttons. They kind of stunk as normal buttons, and the PSP's normal buttons aren't so hot functioning as a game pad (would have worked better for FPS if the analog stick was on the right so you could use it with the d-pad at the same time).

[rickonker]

Thanks guys. I'm so used to the two analog sticks now that I'm not sure how going back to the N64 style would feel. I guess I just have to try it out for an hour or so before I can decide.

[TLR]

Controlling shooters haven't been problematic for me at all.

Syphon Filter: Dark Mirror has a great control scheme, and shows how PSP controls can adequately and accurately handle movment, quick inventory management, and camera control.

Coded Arms has custom controls, so model it as closely to Syphon Filter: DM as possible.

Star Wars Battlefront 2 has the "retro" control scheme.

MoH:H, I actually haven't played, but just going by GameSpot, it's very manageable.

[Thomas96]

MGS Portable Ops... sold 100,000 copies in Japan... on day one.

[MarkMark]

hope hope as much as you like. The PSP tried and failed but its ok. It certainly lasted alot longer than the other victims *Ahem* competition. Maybe itll even get another two years of moderate support

[depascal22]

hope hope as much as you like. The PSP tried and failed but its ok. It certainly lasted alot longer than the other victims *Ahem* competition. Maybe itll even get another two years of moderate support

I still don't understand how you can call a system that's been out less than two years a failure. The PSP still moves units and AAA titles are coming out every month.

By calling the PSP a failure now, it just shows that you have little or no objectivity. It's like saying the PS3 will lose the next-gen war just because it was outsold by the Wii and the 360 over the last two months.

[furyk]

I still don't understand how you can call a system that's been out less than two years a failure.

The very same question I was asking myself when they announced they were pulling the plug on the Dreamcast...

By calling the PSP a failure now, it just shows that you have little or no objectivity. It's like saying the PS3 will lose the next-gen war just because it was outsold by the Wii and the 360 over the last two months.

Well not exactly. Sony, as top dog, is held to a higher standard. They enter a new market against Nintendo, say the same arrogant things Sony has been saying (since let's face it, when you're top dog you can boast a bit). Gamers got pissed and are overly gloating at the first time they've failed to be first which is with the PSP. The PSP is far from a failure but because it isn't as revolutionary or widely adopted as its competition, people like rubbing it in Sony's face. It's just that simple.

[whoknows]

hope hope as much as you like. The PSP tried and failed but its ok. It certainly lasted alot longer than the other victims *Ahem* competition. Maybe itll even get another two years of moderate support
Just because PSP is being outsold by the DS does not mean it failed by any means. Sony is still making money off of it, and games continue to come out for it.

[depascal22]

Well not exactly. Sony, as top dog, is held to a higher standard. They enter a new market against Nintendo, say the same arrogant things Sony has been saying (since let's face it, when you're top dog you can boast a bit). Gamers got pissed and are overly gloating at the first time they've failed to be first which is with the PSP. The PSP is far from a failure but because it isn't as revolutionary or widely adopted as its competition, people like rubbing it in Sony's face. It's just that simple.

That's the thing. Sony hasn't pissed me off. Any company that's in the number one slot sounds very arrogant. It's the nature of business. When Coca-Cola released that shitty coffee soda, they sounded like everyone on the planet was going to be drinking their soda instead of Pepsi AND Starbucks. If that isn't arrogant, I don't know what is. I don't see everyone on the boards saying that Coke is an arrogant bastard of a company and we should stop drinking Coke because they're an "arrogant" company. Everyone's getting wrapped up in a company's perception and image instead of taking a system for what it is. Find some games that you might like and play them. Stop acting like your choice represents more than that.

[Thomas96]

That's the thing. Sony hasn't pissed me off. Any company that's in the number one slot sounds very arrogant. It's the nature of business. When Coca-Cola released that shitty coffee soda, they sounded like everyone on the planet was going to be drinking their soda instead of Pepsi AND Starbucks. If that isn't arrogant, I don't know what is. I don't see everyone on the boards saying that Coke is an arrogant bastard of a company and we should stop drinking Coke because they're an "arrogant" company. Everyone's getting wrapped up in a company's perception and image instead of taking a system for what it is. Find some games that you might like and play them. Stop acting like your choice represents more than that.


good point... cause not too long ago... Nintendo was definitely arrogant; they used to penalize developers who would develop games on other systems. It's not that they were actually arrogant, it's just them doing what they need to do to be number one.

[Thomas96]

hope hope as much as you like. The PSP tried and failed but its ok. It certainly lasted alot longer than the other victims *Ahem* competition. Maybe itll even get another two years of moderate support



I got a feeling that the DS might start to decline... since the psp is putting out ps2 quality graphics on the psp in it's set of 2007 games that are coming out... I'm wondering if people are still going to want to revert to snes graphics? (we'll I'm sure they will) you're saying that the psp is dead (which is getting old), however there's an increase not only in the quantity of games, but in the quality of psp games as well. Money talks bullshit walks... so right now money is saying psp in good standing...

[Strell]

You know how you always have a friend or relative that has a dog, and the dog always, no matter how many times you do it, will fall for the "act like you're throwing the stick when you really aren't" trick?

Thomas96 is that dog, except that he's also missing a hind leg.

[VanillaGorilla]

No, it will never even come close. It has the same chance of passing the DS as the GameCube does passing the PS2.

I just made the last 13 pages obsolete.

[Kendro]

I got a feeling that the DS might start to decline... since the psp is putting out ps2 quality graphics on the psp in it's set of 2007 games that are coming out...

LOL.

[Thomas96]

LOL.


You laugh now.. but you never know which way the industry is going to go,..

[Thomas96]

You know how you always have a friend or relative that has a dog, and the dog always, no matter how many times you do it, will fall for the "act like you're throwing the stick when you really aren't" trick?

Thomas96 is that dog, except that he's also missing a hind leg.




that missing hind leg is the one I put up your ass... now stop talking crap...

[The Crotch]

You laugh now.. but you never know which way the industry is going to go,..
Unlike you, apparently, who... can...

Yeah, definitely missing a leg.

[Thomas96]

Unlike you, apparently, who... can...

Yeah, definitely missing a leg.




alright, well this time next year we'll see....
you guys rather hurl insults than talk about the issue at hand; people with poor insight tend to do that.