View Full Version : I need help with this PS3 ebay auction
I sold a PS3 on ebay yesterday and in my auction I specifically said I'd only ship to 'confirmed US paypal addresses only'. The lady that won sent an email after the auction saying she didn't realize it was a Paypal auction, but that she could send a money order. I replied back, telling her I'd have to file a NPB strike against her if she didn't pay with confirmed Paypal. Then, I waited...
I was gone all night tonight, and just came back home to see lots of new emails. They go in this order:
#1 What is your payment address?
#2 I have a confirmed Paypal address & can pay you $252 with Paypal & send the rest my overnighted money order. LMK
#3 [buyers name] just sent you money with PayPal.
[buyers name] is a Verified buyer.
#4 Should I cancel this payment?
#5 What is your Illinois address? Thanks
#6 Dear "Rig",
[buyers name] has opened a dispute for the payment made to you on Nov
21, 2006 indicating that they never received the item.
Your Transaction ID:XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Buyer's Transaction ID:XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
There are many reasons why this might have happened. It could be that the
item is still in transit or was accidentally delivered to the wrong
address. Sometimes buyers open a non receipt dispute too soon because they
underestimate how long it can take for shipping and delivery.
By opening this dispute, [buyers name] is asking for your help to
resolve this issue. This is your best opportunity to resolve this problem
before the buyer escalates it to a PayPal claim or files a chargeback with
their card issuer.
#7 Dear "Rig",
Your buyer has chosen to escalate this dispute to a PayPal claim. By ending
communication with you and escalating to a claim, the buyer is asking
PayPal to investigate the case and decide the outcome. As part of our
investigation, PayPal reviewed any communication you may have had with the
buyer in the Resolution Center
We recently received a claim from a buyer regarding merchandise that either
was never received or did not match your original description. Please
understand that until our investigation into this matter is complete, the
funds associated with this transaction may be temporarily held. For more
information, please review our User Agreement.
What the hell am I supposed to do in this situation? I don't even know where to begin. I've never had such a problem on ebay before. (This person has 1 feedback as well...ugh...)
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Satoshi-kun
11-22-2006, 05:17 AM
Why wouldn't you allow her to send a money order?
Why wouldn't you allow her to send a money order?
Money orders can be faked. Paypal is the safest way to pay for online auctions. And I wanted coverage should the buyer try and scam me. My auction required a Paypal address, and it was the only form of payment I accepted. I should NOT have to accept a payment I specifically kept out of the auction. The whole run around with this buyer has been suspicious from the start.
PayPal let her escalate it to a claim after just 1 day? That's crazy, IMO.
I'd tell PayPal, that she has only paid part of her total amount. You are happy to send the item if she pays you the FULL amount, but until then you are not going to send her item and feel you are well within PayPal's policy to demand full payment before sending. Ask if you should go ahead and refund this PARTIAL payment now (show that you are not trying to take anyone's money for nothing), but note that you will be filing a NPB claim at eBay if a full payment is not subsequently made.
You may want to refund the partial payment immediately with a note in the refund that this payment was not enough to cover the auction price and she needs to make a new payment for the full amount. PayPal's coverage probably only works if you get paid with a single payment to a confirmed address(?)
This situation is ridiculous enough that I might try to find a support number for PayPal and call them up to try to get this straightened out asap.
Just as an aside, I'd let her send you a USPS money order (actually she might have to do multiple MOs with a high amount like a PS3) to pay for the item. You can cash them right at the PO and be sure they are not fake. The problem here is that she may send something other than a USPS MO, in which case just make it very very clear that any other form of payment will be sent back to her and the auction voided. Then she's wasted even more of your time, so I could see not wanting to fool with it...
Actually, this lady does sound batshit insane. Verify with PayPal that refunding the partial payment will cancel the claim and then hope she goes away. Then list it as a fixed price listing with immediate PayPal payment required and you won't have to deal with another loon.
Wolve11
11-22-2006, 10:08 AM
Wubb left some great advice.
If Paypal does an investigation then they will see that the money has not been sent yet (in full). Contact Paypal through phone if possible and let them know the situation.
Good luck man
Thanks for the help so far guys. Maybe I didn't make it clear enough, but the money is no longer in my Paypal. While I was gone, she had sent the payment, then cancelled the payment, and then filed the non-sending seller thing in Paypal. This has been such a headache.
And in most cases I wouldn't mind getting a money order. But, it just seems so damn fishy that she'd send me a partial Paypal payment and then want to overnight the rest in a money order(s).
EDIT: Getting ready to call Paypal. And I just logged into ebay to see that this buyer is no longer a registered user. Hmmm...makes me happy that I didn't send her the console!
Roufuss
11-22-2006, 03:46 PM
Thanks for the help so far guys. Maybe I didn't make it clear enough, but the money is no longer in my Paypal. While I was gone, she had sent the payment, then cancelled the payment, and then filed the non-sending seller thing in Paypal. This has been such a headache.
And in most cases I wouldn't mind getting a money order. But, it just seems so damn fishy that she'd send me a partial Paypal payment and then want to overnight the rest in a money order(s).
EDIT: Getting ready to call Paypal. And I just logged into ebay to see that this buyer is no longer a registered user. Hmmm...makes me happy that I didn't send her the console!
Then you're in the clear, espically if she didn't send any money... of course you wouldn't have sent out the system. Paypal can easily see that she sent you a partial amount, then took it back, this case will be open and shut quickly.
And Wubb, yea, you can escalate it into a claim immediately after you start a dispute. All it's doing is telling Paypal you feel confident enough that they will rule in your favor.
I once had a lady tell me she didn't receive a package, when she had already left positive feedback AND the DC told me it was delivered weeks ago. I made it a claim as soon as she left it (I won because the lady backed out of the dispute).
Paypal has all the proof they need Rig, I wouldn't worry.
And a NPB strike just for not having a confirmed Paypal address? Kind of harsh, I usually just do a "mutually agree not to sell" form, since threatening a strike is just asking for an unnecessary negative.
I didn't know you could cancel a payment after it's been made? What's to stop a buyer from canceling a payment after the seller ships? Are you sure it isn't just that PayPal deducted the amount from your account after the dispute was elevated to a claim? I thought PayPal debited the money so you can't withdraw it while they are investigating. (Only works if the seller hasn't withdrawn the money in between payment and filing the claim of course. In those cases the account goes to a negative balance.)
If she doesn't have an outstanding payment to you now why is she filing anything with PayPal? Shouldn't it be an eBay thing? But I really don't think the buyer (or money sender) can cancel a payment after it has been completed without the Seller's okay.
Okay, after a quick call to Paypal, it looks like everything is working out. (Though I still haven't sold the system!)
I guess the payment was NOT cancelled, but it was frozen in my account. I was confused because the account balance said I had $0.01 left. The Paypal rep had me refund the $250, and that ended her claim.
Then, since the buyer is no longer a registered user, I automatically won my Final Value Fee back.
And Roufuss, I actually had the same problem with my FIRST auction winner. He said he couldn't send me the money; he didn't think he was going to win the auction. So I mutually agreed not to do anything, and we parted ways under good terms.
This buyer though has been nothing but pushy. Right after winning the auction her attitude changed to: "I won your auction. You should be happy to take my overnight money order!" (Especially worse since Paypal was the only payment accepted on my auction.) Her emails are not pleasant, and I am certain that this was a scam. I didn't feel I owed her a mutual agrement, especially since she's no longer a registered user. I'm sure she couldn't care less. (And she only had one feedback.)
So now, I'm still out the $23 it cost to list the PS3 the first time. I sent a Second Chance Offer to the next couple people. I hope one of them takes it. If not, looks like I'll try my hand again.
Thanks to those of you in here with the quality help. That's why I love these boards!
Very good. Although not good on having 2 auctions for the PS3 go bad. Man, what a hassle. If you do have to list it again consider my advice from above. Fixed price with immediate payment required.
I knew a buyer being able to cancel a completed payment didn't sound right. ;)
Kendro
11-22-2006, 05:50 PM
Wubb, is there a "negative" to using immediate payment? I don't understand why all sellers wouldn't use this option. It seems like a win-win situation. Unless immediate payment excludes a good portion of your potential buyers, what is a reason you shouldn't use it?
Pookymeister
11-22-2006, 06:00 PM
Wubb, is there a "negative" to using immediate payment? I don't understand why all sellers wouldn't use this option. It seems like a win-win situation. Unless immediate payment excludes a good portion of your potential buyers, what is a reason you shouldn't use it?
The only reason i see is it would keep buyers away. For something like a PS3, i won't consider anything BUT the immediate payment required option. Keeps away the problem buyers - at least the ones that can't pay at first , at least :)
FlipSide
11-22-2006, 06:04 PM
Wubb, is there a "negative" to using immediate payment? I don't understand why all sellers wouldn't use this option. It seems like a win-win situation. Unless immediate payment excludes a good portion of your potential buyers, what is a reason you shouldn't use it?
It only works with Buy-it-now option.
Roufuss
11-22-2006, 06:25 PM
And Roufuss, I actually had the same problem with my FIRST auction winner. He said he couldn't send me the money; he didn't think he was going to win the auction. So I mutually agreed not to do anything, and we parted ways under good terms.
This buyer though has been nothing but pushy. Right after winning the auction her attitude changed to: "I won your auction. You should be happy to take my overnight money order!" (Especially worse since Paypal was the only payment accepted on my auction.) Her emails are not pleasant, and I am certain that this was a scam. I didn't feel I owed her a mutual agrement, especially since she's no longer a registered user. I'm sure she couldn't care less. (And she only had one feedback.)
!
Ah see, you didn't write she was a bitch straight from the get go ;)
The only reason i see is it would keep buyers away. For something like a PS3, i won't consider anything BUT the immediate payment required option. Keeps away the problem buyers - at least the ones that can't pay at first , at least :)
Yeah, only real downside I can see is that you can only do this with PayPal, so you can't accept money orders, etc. on listings where you require immediate payment. As far as a PayPal buyer that for some reason doesn't have enough money to cover when they pull the trigger, I'd rather exclude those guys.
For that reason I only use it for things that I feel would drop in value if I had to waste time with a NPB.
I think I have less than 1 out of 100 NPBs on fixed price listings without doing immediate payment, so in my experience it is very rare. *knock on wood*
bart122580
11-23-2006, 11:21 PM
So many scammers. I've been sent 2 messages.
The first was the lame story of, my son is overseas, but I'm willing to pay $xxxx amount to get it before the auction ends.
The 2nd one gave me a link to a fake ebay page that asked me to enter my username and password. I could tell it's fake because there was no padlock on the bottom right of my window and I was already signed in to ebay.
Anyways, these are things to look out for any auction. Good read and I hope everything turns out in your favor, as it should.
Eastsidecracker
11-24-2006, 12:40 AM
SInce its been bumped, any follow up RIG? (Read the whole topic and am interested as to what you did next)
SInce its been bumped, any follow up RIG? (Read the whole topic and am interested as to what you did next)
Well, once Paypal was resolved, I went to ebay and filed the NPB strike. It said she was no longer a registered user, so I got my Final Value Fee back. And she hasn't contacted me since.
So, it looks like I went through a lot of trouble, but nothing bad happened. I listed the auction for three days, as I didn't want it to finish today. (Black Friday) I hope the third time is the charm.
goosedude
11-24-2006, 04:56 AM
Reading this post....I can only sense you are an ebay newbie and one of the many PS3 profiteers who have no experience in the matter.
For items of such value.....you should never accept bids from anyone without a good history on eBAY....I'd say minimum 10 transactions.....and preferably within the last year. I prefer payments via Paypal (CONFIRMED) accounts WITH CONFIRMED addresses....only.
Should you choose to do any other form of payment....for expensive items....always use an online ESCROW service.
Saves alot of headaches......
Reading this post....I can only sense you are an ebay newbie and one of the many PS3 profiteers who have no experience in the matter.
For items of such value.....you should never accept bids from anyone without a good history on eBAY....I'd say minimum 10 transactions.....and preferably within the last year. I prefer payments via Paypal (CONFIRMED) accounts WITH CONFIRMED addresses....only.
Should you choose to do any other form of payment....for expensive items....always use an online ESCROW service.
Saves alot of headaches......
Well, I don't consider myself an ebay 'newbie'. If you were to find my auction, you would see I only accept CONFIRMED Paypal myself for my auctions. As for history, ebay does not allow you to block bidders from bidding unless they have negative scores or recent strikes. And, I've never got burnt on ebay before, so I'm pretty sure I know what I'm doing.
Michaellvortega
11-24-2006, 07:21 AM
Paypal should offer a mercenary service that for a "small fee" hunts down and beats NPB's and scammers. I'd pay $2 towards every listing for that service.
Ivanhoe
11-24-2006, 10:42 PM
paypal BLOWs.
Money order or western union payments are the single best way for big ticket items on ebay. Hands down.
Also i like to ban/kick bidders with less then 10 overall feedback and/or negative/0 feedback users from all my auctions.
You should of accepted the money order.
konmai
11-24-2006, 10:43 PM
Seriously, Ebay should charge scammers in some way. So they stop making big problems for people.
Sorry to hear about your problem, Rig. Did you get to sale the 3rd time around? Now I know what to watch out for if I ever sale a big ticket item on there.
paypal BLOWs.
Money order or western union payments are the single best way for big ticket items on ebay. Hands down.
Also i like to ban/kick bidders with less then 10 overall feedback and/or negative/0 feedback users from all my auctions.
You should of accepted the money order.
Western Union? Are you kidding? I hear constant horror stories about using Western Union to scam people. And obviously there's something wrong with a buyer that spams my email address, HAS a Paypal account but doesn't want to use it, and READS my auction but chooses to ignore my "Confirmed Paypal Only" payment. I wouldn't have sent her anything, big ticket item or otherwise. And, you lose out on many buyers if you don't accept Paypal. I agree with you on the less than 10 feedback/negative buyers thing though. That would be nice.
Seriously, Ebay should charge scammers in some way. So they stop making big problems for people.
Sorry to hear about your problem, Rig. Did you get to sale the 3rd time around? Now I know what to watch out for if I ever sale a big ticket item on there.
It actually ends tomorrow night, but I have my fingers crossed!
Pookymeister
11-25-2006, 12:46 AM
Western Union? Are you kidding? I hear constant horror stories about using Western Union to scam people.
Yea, but thats when you Western Union your money to the scammer. If someone sends you money via WU, you walk into a branch, give your info, and walk out with cash. Its so easy, thats why scammers like it.
chosen1s
11-25-2006, 12:55 AM
I would accept the Money Order and deposit in at my bank in person. I would then explain the situation and demand to know the exact day when the money order is 100% cleared and there is 0% chance it can be reversed due to fraud or any other issue. Finally, I would wait one day beyond that and then send the system.
In the meantime, I make the lady wait and if she starts making a nuissance of herself, direct her to your auction and her refusal to follow your requirements.
chosen1s
11-25-2006, 12:58 AM
Yea, but thats when you Western Union your money to the scammer. If someone sends you money via WU, you walk into a branch, give your info, and walk out with cash. Its so easy, thats why scammers like it.
You can have someone wire you the money via "money transfer" through Western Union. I have verified with them several times that there is NO way you can get screwed in this manner. The person sending has to have the money on-hand to make the transfer, and when you are paid, you are paid in cash. They have no access to any of your accounts, and it is a straight cash payment. Next-best thing to being paid in cash as far as I understand.
Me - Is there ANY way that I can lose this money once I receive it. What if the person on the other side is somehow scamming me?
Western Union - There is no way, it's not even possible. But even if it were possible, it is a cash transfer and there is no way we could come back to reverse the transaction since you are being paid in cash.
Veritas1204
11-25-2006, 09:26 AM
chosen, you still selling your PS3's for 2X the cost?
If so, I'll definately pay you via Western Union.
but seriously Ivanhoe et al, Western Union is NOT a good way to get paid; the fact that 99% of scammers who direct you to off-ebay email addresses ask that you pay them western union should alone be enough to see this.
But, like anything else, I'm sure positive transactions can occur using western union, if both parties are honest. It is the ease with which you can get screwed that causes most people to not use WU money orders.
Pookymeister
11-25-2006, 12:33 PM
chosen, you still selling your PS3's for 2X the cost?
If so, I'll definately pay you via Western Union.
but seriously Ivanhoe et al, Western Union is NOT a good way to get paid; the fact that 99% of scammers who direct you to off-ebay email addresses ask that you pay them western union should alone be enough to see this.
But, like anything else, I'm sure positive transactions can occur using western union, if both parties are honest. It is the ease with which you can get screwed that causes most people to not use WU money orders.
Bottomline : Western Union is perfectly great to get paid from a money transfer. Its not great to pay with a money transfer.
Ivanhoe
11-25-2006, 01:30 PM
its 100% safe. same with a money order.
a money order can be cashed at a bank on the spot. before u ship out your item.
wu you get cash before u ship out ur item.
yes WU sucks if your the SENDER to some scammer on ebay. But its great if your a seller and are receiving payment .
Been doing this for over 6 years on ebay.
Oh and no stupid paypal fees.
I only use paypal for under 100dollar auctions.
And it doesnt limit ur bidders really at all because a big ticket item is something that everyone is currently wanting.
serious bidders have NO problems with money orders or western union payments. Not when ur a longtime honest ebay seller with feedback to back it up.
RegalSin2020
11-25-2006, 01:32 PM
Okay first off I suggest checking out paypal TAX and the TAX of the money order.
Secondly I have bid on some items where the person said only paypal and they would let me send a money order.
Personally I would just take the money order over the craptacullar paypal. This way you can cash it and the transfer the money with no fees.
Another thing how could the buyer ask for a dispute when they never paid in the first place.
konmai
11-25-2006, 02:50 PM
Secondly I have bid on some items where the person said only paypal and they would let me send a money order.
Someone purchased something from me before & chose to pay with money order, when I indicated Paypal only on my auction. So I just gave the person a week. M.O. arrived in 2 days, clear & I sent off the item.