Great show on immigration. Poor indian programmer gets hosed by his company.

[Admiral Ackbar]

I'm watching a great show on PBS about Imigration. It's really well done, following the lives of several imigrants from all over the world.

But there's one guy in particular. This indian software programmer. He's come to the US to take a job that's worth $130 an hour. But he only earns $30. The hiring company that got him the job earns $100 an hour or over 75% of his normal salary! I heard that and I was shocked. I understand the undertaking to transplant a skill worker can get expensive. But he's earning a quarter of the salary say, a normal american would get paid in that postion. I've dealt with Job agents before, and I know they can get a sizeable comission but that seems way out of line.

Also, they had a great scene with his supervisor explaining that they need imigrants to fill these positions. How bright and useful they were. Then they split to a scene where this guy and two of his software engineering buddies are in the cafeteria, and they can't figure out how to make toast!

[lionheart4life]

Yeah I saw that same show on PBS like last week. It had a lot of good stuff on there like this story, some of it was really shocking to see.

[Admiral Ackbar]

Yeah. I feel bad for the Nigerian. He has a Chemical Engineering Degree. He's highly skilled, quick witted, fluent in english but has an accent.

The best job he can get is as a Security Guard for a low wage at a Department Store. There's a point where he says that the worse thing that ever happened to him is coming to America. He gets an enginering degree, works hard, but because of the way people percieve him, all he can get are jobs as a steward and security guard. When things like that happen you can loose all sense of self worth and confidence in the American dream.

[shawagg]

What's the name of this thing? I definantly wanna check it out when it airs on my PBS.

[Admiral Ackbar]

The New Americans (http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/newamericans/)

[Moxio]

Yes, they are taking advantage of people. I mean, $30 for $130? That blows.

[bignick]

Yes, they are taking advantage of people. I mean, $30 for $130? That blows.
$30 an hour is over 60K a year, that doesnt blow.

[Moxio]

Yes, they are taking advantage of people. I mean, $30 for $130? That blows.
$30 an hour is over 60K a year, that doesnt blow.

Well, comparing that to $130 that an American could earn, I think it does.

[bignick]

Yes, they are taking advantage of people. I mean, $30 for $130? That blows.
$30 an hour is over 60K a year, that doesnt blow.

Well, comparing that to $130 that an American could earn, I think it does.

Thats still alot more than he would make back home.

[Moxio]

Yes, they are taking advantage of people. I mean, $30 for $130? That blows.
$30 an hour is over 60K a year, that doesnt blow.

Well, comparing that to $130 that an American could earn, I think it does.

Thats still alot more than he would make back home.

True.

I'm probably angry because I myself am Indian, and I hate to see people, especially fellow Indians, get ripped off; in this case, it's pretty bad.

[Admiral Ackbar]

I'm not saying he's poor. But he is getting such a small percentage of his salary. Then, after working for a couple months, working 12-14 hour days, they lay him off, and imperil his residency. They have a great scene where he's decribing what it's been like, and I'm paraphrasing, but he basically states that he's being used. He describes it as bringing him over, using his skills, and then kicking him out when he's no longer needed.

Making what he's make is more than a lot of Americans, not just then what he has at home. I'm an engineer, can't find professional work, and he was making double what I make now. But if my skills are worth $100k, and I see that everyone around me is making $100k, and I'm only making $25k because I'm an immigrant, that doesn't seem right. Then, in less than a year, they lay me off.

Not to mention, it's more then just raw money. Yes, he may make less money in India in dollar value, but things are cheaper there too. He has a better support structure. He's familiar with the area. Not to mention, he's stuck living in Silicon Valley, that 60K is worth less than it would be in maybe 90% of the rest of America. Since he's new to the country he has to build up whatever worth he can. Even though he's making 60k, one of the first thing his supervisor says to him when he picks him up is to, "Take a shower, then go to the bank and get that sorted out. You need credit." Because it's expensive even with 60K.

[Graystone]

americans get mad when compaines hire aliens and outsource for a lot of thing but I look at it 2 different ways
1. it is not the people's fault they are just trying to make a living like us it is the employers fault for wanting to save a buck and make more money. (greed)
2. if everything was made here in the U.S. many nations would die out and everything here would cost more and wages would go up a llittle.

[bignick]

Yes, they are taking advantage of people. I mean, $30 for $130? That blows.
$30 an hour is over 60K a year, that doesnt blow.

Well, comparing that to $130 that an American could earn, I think it does.

Thats still alot more than he would make back home.

True.

I'm probably angry because I myself am Indian, and I hate to see people, especially fellow Indians, get ripped off; in this case, it's pretty bad.

$30 an hour is probably more than half of americans make. I dont htink he is being ripped off.

[epobirs]

Yes, they are taking advantage of people. I mean, $30 for $130? That blows.
$30 an hour is over 60K a year, that doesnt blow.

Well, comparing that to $130 that an American could earn, I think it does.

Thats still alot more than he would make back home.

For the region in question it's lousy. The costs of many critical expenses are based on the number of people earning those $130 hr wages. Living where there are more reasonable housing costs means a crushing commute.

This makes outsourcing very appealing for both the worker and the employer. The same wages offer a very comfortable life in an Indian suburb and the employer eliminates most of that middle-man cost. The person left wanting is the US native resident who'd happily take that job for somewhere in between the $30 and and $130. The problem is that the same technology that created amarket for skilled programmers also made it possible to use those skills almost anywhere on the planet for an employer almost anywhere else on the planet.

[pimp_daddy_smurf]

american money is worth about 4x what it is here.........i would be a wealthy man in india

actually i work with 4 guys from india and they get paid no less than i do an hour and they are just cashiers

[kaw]

He's come to the US to take a job that's worth $130 an hour. But he only earns $30.


Did they say what the American is doing now that the Indian took his job? If he managed to find a job, it probably wasn't anywhere close to 130. Hell, it probably wasn't close to 30.

I feel so sorry for the immigrant...

[JSweeney]

I'm not so sure about that. I find it hard to believe that a programmer would make low to mid six figures a year anywhere in this industry. Heck, just a quick look at median salaries make it look like even the Sr. Programmers with 10+ year of experience only have a media salary that just barely breaks 6 figures.

[tdanglsu]

Get a freaking Grip. Programmers making $130 an Hour? That amounts to $250,000 per year! Who the F*** pays that much for a new programmer when a senior level AMERICAN working his A** off for 10 years is lucky to break $100,000.

[tdanglsu]

Get a freaking Grip. Programmers making $130 an Hour? That amounts to $250,000 per year! Who the F*** pays that much for a new programmer when a senior level AMERICAN working his A** off for 10 years is lucky to break $100,000.

[bignick]

I'm not so sure about that. I find it hard to believe that a programmer would make low to mid six figures a year anywhere in this industry. Heck, just a quick look at median salaries make it look like even the Sr. Programmers with 10+ year of experience only have a media salary that just barely breaks 6 figures.

Thats what I am saying. I want to know where PBS got their figures from. I mean even temp jobs for top SQL programmers arnt even $100 an hour.

[kaw]

I know plenty of Sr. programmers where I work that have salaries well over 100k. Granted 250k is far from a 100k, but maybe they're factoring how much the company pays out because of the employee including benefits. Things like life insurance, medical, matching 401k, etc.

Once a corporation outsources the US job to an offshore contracting firm they are no longer responsible paying those benefits, which is where they can see the most significant cost savings. Base salary is only a piece of the pie.

[JSweeney]

Right.. but even with those added benefits, 130 hr still seems rather high.

[bignick]

Right.. but even with those added benefits, 130 hr still seems rather high.

Benefites at the most would add 10K a year.

[epobirs]

It depends what type of work you're doing. I know more than a few engineers who were sufficiently well set by their early 40's to retire and do consulting part time as more of a hobby than a job. There are other factors as well when it comes to the big pay offs for certain tech careers such as stock options. First you have to get hire and stick around for a few years. This has become increasingly difficult as more tech jobs in marketed globally.

[kaw]

Benefits can add up to about 30-40% of your salary (depending on where you work). Vacation time, holidays, pension plan, matching 401k, life insurance, disability insurance, medical/dental/eye insurance, tuition assistance, employee stock purchase plan, child care, bonuses...

[defender]

$30 out of $130 can be considered reasonable for a starting salary

He wouldnt get that kind of programming work otherwise. There is no way he could bill $130 an hour as a freelancer. As time goes on he can make contacts and have references and I am sure he will get more money,

When someone gets about 25 cents for serving a mcdonalds meal that cost $5 does anyone here complain? I dont think so.

[epobirs]

You're glossing over the mammoth difference between skilled and unskilled labor. The McDonald's workers are only there until they get the robots working right.