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View Full Version : Now I know why these political topics get out of hand.


Admiral Ackbar
07-02-2004, 05:57 PM
This will probably turn into another flaming thread on Bush vs Kerry. but I just had my own personal experience about this. (Mind you, I'm a fiscal conservative.)

We were discussing Bill Clintons new book at work today. And the topic got onto politics, and well, even thought I'm a Republican, I've come to realize from that discussion that a large majority of my coworkers are almost militant and quite alarming in their republican beliefs.

It eventually got into a discussion where I mentioned that I just didn't have confidence in Bush anymore. One of my coworkers main argument that I was "crazy" was that Kerry was for repealing the tax cuts that should be made permanent. Which frankly I don't support because I think it's sound economically to repeal those cuts considering the deficit. Also, I don't subscribe to Reganomics. which I would argue isn't fiscal conservatisim, and I mentioned that because I feel the tax cuts are more in line with Reganomic ideology.

Anyway, I take a pretty even keel about political responsibility being split among both parties. But my coworker, to bascially ascribe his arguments, everything that is wrong with American is the Democrats fault. For an example on the economic side, the large federal deficits accrued during the Regan administration was all the Democrats fault. And then the proposed Tax increase by the Bush (Sr.) Administration was also the Democrats fault because they wouldn't cut costs and caused the defecit in the first place. Then I said, well what about the deficit control under the Clinton Administration. I thought he had to admit Clintons input into getting that under control. He stated that Clinton was really against a balance budget and it was all due to the republican congress and Newt Geingrich. Then I asked about the current administration, and it's deficit. Again, all the democrats fault.

Ultimately, his stances were complete unfair and unrealistic against the Democratic party. And I mention this because he wouldn't put things in terms of actually arguing merits. He would always come back to the "Democrats" fault. For example, I'm discussing Keansian economic theories, conservitive fiscal theory, trickle down economics, etc. In the discussion I'm actively avoiding discussing party politics but instead the question of tax cuts themselves. But all his arguments were basically, it's the democrats fault. I started discussing the concerns over social security and he called those "Democratic scare tactics." I asked how the country could afford its expenditures without raising taxes and he goes, "Well, the Democrats won't cut anything."

We talked for about an hour during lunch and while I found the discussing stimulating, it was so because of the shocking militancy of my coworkors against the democratic party. They actually had the nerve to talk about how partisan politics had become, and then blame the democrats for it! And they were laughing about how Dick Chaney cursed of a Senator (Leahy I think) and telling me it was okay because the Senator was a democratic bastard anyway.

This group, except for gun control, wouldn't consider any proposal, idea, or concept put forth by the democratic party to have merit. Nor would they look at historical evidence.

Anyway, it was just increadibly eye opening insight to a certain way of thinking. I was even shocked by how one guy left by saying, "You should really listen to Rush (limbaugh) more. He'll tell you what's going on."

bignick
07-02-2004, 06:00 PM
Your co-workers sound cool!

scsg75
07-02-2004, 06:02 PM
This is why I never discuss politics or religion with many people. They have their own views and most of the time no matter how logical your own arguments, you will never change their minds, especially when they have no real argument other than blaming the opposing side or party.

jimbodan
07-02-2004, 06:03 PM
This is why I never discuss politics or religion with many people. They have their own views and most of the time no matter how logical your own arguments, you will never change their minds, especially when they have no real argument other than blaming the opposing side or party.

AGREE'D

Graystone
07-02-2004, 06:04 PM
I am going to say nothing becuase what ever the first 10 people say will turn this into a flame and then it will get locked ever one will call everyone dumb for their views.

Tromack
07-02-2004, 06:05 PM
All I have determined is that most people are stupid. Even people who are supposed to be smart.

bignick
07-02-2004, 06:05 PM
This is why I never discuss politics or religion with many people. They have their own views and most of the time no matter how logical your own arguments, you will never change their minds, especially when they have no real argument other than blaming the opposing side or party.

Wow, sounds like you have solid points to your views, care to share them with us?

RBM
07-02-2004, 06:20 PM
And I mention this because he wouldn't put things in terms of actually arguing merits. He would always come back to the "Democrats" fault.

In my opinion, that is sufficient to pinpoint the problem in chatting with people about politics and other sensitive issues. They simply will not discuss the topic in hand if they don't have an opinion about it. Instead, they will fall back on ready-baked catch-phrases they've heard from other people or resort to personal insults directed at the other party.

Now, this sort of unconstructive habit is aggravated in forums such as these by the "lag time" between posts, which sometimes leads to confusion as to which statement someone is responding to or having 3 people peppering 1 person with a torrent of remarks. However, I would consider that sort of confusion to be the minor player. The main reason the discussions are typically so poor here is the one mentioned above: people will not defend their positions or statements with logical reasons. They'll call the other person names or try to launch counter-attacks that have no bearing on the issue at hand.

kev
07-02-2004, 06:39 PM
I am going to say nothing becuase what ever the first 10 people say will turn this into a flame and then it will get locked ever one will call everyone dumb for their views.

That is the dumbest thing I've ever read you moron. You must be a Democrat.

ZForce915
07-02-2004, 06:43 PM
This is why I never discuss politics or religion with many people. They have their own views and most of the time no matter how logical your own arguments, you will never change their minds, especially when they have no real argument other than blaming the opposing side or party.

It's not so much that you won't change their minds, but in most cases (like above) they won't even open their minds.

Alpha2
07-02-2004, 06:57 PM
The problem is Zealots, Religious or political, regardless of how even and diplomatic a conversation you try to have on the subject they will become threatened the minute you dissagree with them.

This immediatly leads to a sort of territorial response, as if you;re trying to take something away from them by allowing your own thoughts to take form by vocalizing them. People like this would almost stick their fingers in the ears and go "NAHNAHNAHNAHNAH" rather than listen to you if it werent for the fact that they arnt on a school yard playground and realize they can defeat you by be louder and more beligerant about their views than you.

God forbid you get in the middle of a "discussion" but to zealots on opposite sides of the issue, you might as well go get a drink and take a nap assuming they arnt yelling too loud for it. I've gotten to the point where I no longer feel interested in discussig issues like these, especially online, because the internet has afforded people the ability to not only stick their fingers in their ears and go "NAHNAHNAHNAH" but also the ability to try abd be louder than the other person.

It dosent pay to try discussing these things because you arnt going to change the other persons mind one way or the other, they're likly to just defy you even if they realize they;re wrong just to not look bad. Unless of course you somehow meet someone openminded enough and willing to let you try to change their mind on the subject profided you offer your view in an intelligent insightful way.

Graystone
07-02-2004, 07:07 PM
I am going to say nothing becuase what ever the first 10 people say will turn this into a flame and then it will get locked ever one will call everyone dumb for their views.

That is the dumbest thing I've ever read you moron. You must be a Democrat.


see what did I say someone would call someone dumb thanks for being the idiot for doing so.

see I was just saying all these political posts turn into flames now I am a moron for stating the truth, and no I am not a democrat I am independent.[/i]

daddiebigbig
07-02-2004, 07:15 PM
LOCK'D

of course kev had to be the "idiot" graystone was just saying that it would turn into a flame I think that all politcal shit should go into one thread there is always that one dumbass (kev) who wants to get mad and then people get mad at me for getting mad at the idiot. he calling someone a moron for stating a opinion and saying that they are not going to say anything. see kev is mad becuse graystoney whatever did not want to get in this and he had to got get mad cause graystoner was not like yeah fuck yea go america go. I dont know nothing about anyone here bout how stupid could you be. (kev) honestly how old are we I bet you still in school uh. ass

Wshakspear
07-02-2004, 07:17 PM
I am going to say nothing becuase what ever the first 10 people say will turn this into a flame and then it will get locked ever one will call everyone dumb for their views.

That is the dumbest thing I've ever read you moron. You must be a Democrat.


see what did I say someone would call someone dumb thanks for being the idiot for doing so.

im guessing thier was at least some sarcasm in thier somewhere.

anyways, great post OP