Bill Gates: "We See Nintendo as the toughest competition."

[Zen Davis]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkEbkbTTNss

Mr. Bill gates acknowledges Nintendo as its toughest competition while making no reference to Sony.

[botticus]

Weird, cause in another interview he said Sony was always their main competition while the novelty of the Wii could wear off. Time to link-scavenge.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/aei/2007/01/bill_gates_inte.html
I asked him about Nintendo. What if their graphics were good enough, their controller innovative enough, and the system cheap enough for a lot of gamers? He said that Sony was always the more direct competitor and that the novelty of the controller without good game graphics could wear off.
From Takahashi. So I guess it depends on his audience.

[Zen Davis]

That's interesting. Do you think he doesn't want to alienate the Japanese and that's why he cited Nintendo in that interview?

[daroga]

My guess is that the more recent is in light of current sales, while the older quote was in terms of similar hardware configurations.

[shipwreck]

My guess is that the more recent is in light of current sales, while the older quote was in terms of similar hardware configurations.

*ding ding ding ding*

[ryanbph]

thats funny, as doesn't nintendo claim to not compete with either sony or msft newer systems

[daroga]

*ding ding ding ding*YES! Do I win something? ;)

[Zen Davis]

My guess is that the more recent is in light of current sales, while the older quote was in terms of similar hardware configurations. Actually the other quote is from yesterday, isn't it? Or did I misunderstand your post?

[daroga]

Actually the other quote is from yesterday, isn't it? Or did I misunderstand your post?Let me clarify to see if were talking about the same thing. :)

The more recent quote regarding Nintendo is in light of their explosive Wii and DS sales. Whereas the older quote about Sony that botticus sug up was in regards to seeing the PS3 and 360 as direct competition in terms of raw power.

EDIT: You're right, the Sony quote is from yesterday. Well, that blows my theory more or less out of the water, but I think the point still stands. When it comes to similar platforms, Sony is their direct competition. When it comes to them actually making sales, Nintendo seems far more in the way than Sony.

[Cormier6083]

Portable strenght... Xbox Portable?
http://www.pixelydixel.com/img06/xboxportable.jpg

[dpatel]

Their recent decisions would say otherwise: HD-DVD add-on, 1080p firmware update, possible HDMI inclusion.

[djkunai]

Portable strenght... Xbox Portable?
http://www.pixelydixel.com/img06/xboxportable.jpg

I still think calling it the X-Brick is more accurate.

[chodax]

I really dont think Nintendo is a threat at all. If anything, probably helps the 360 get sales. Old non gamers might be a Wii and really like it and want something with a little better graphics and something online, and PS3 is 200 dollars more than the 360, so they buy the 360.

[sblymnlcrymnl]

Weird, cause in another interview he said Sony was always their main competition while the novelty of the Wii could wear off. Time to link-scavenge.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/aei/2007/01/bill_gates_inte.html

I asked him about Nintendo. What if their graphics were good enough, their controller innovative enough, and the system cheap enough for a lot of gamers? He said that Sony was always the more direct competitor and that the novelty of the controller without good game graphics could wear off.

From Takahashi. So I guess it depends on his audience.

Hmm ... I always thought the novelty of good graphics wore off alot faster. :-k :lol:

[Inf^Shini]

Portable strenght... Xbox Portable?
http://www.pixelydixel.com/img06/xboxportable.jpg

Whoa, what the hell is that? :lol:

[Don Wuebos]

the coolest shit in existence.

[Dr Mario Kart]

I really dont think Nintendo is a threat at all. If anything, probably helps the 360 get sales. Old non gamers might be a Wii and really like it and want something with a little better graphics and something online, and PS3 is 200 dollars more than the 360, so they buy the 360.

Wrong. They are non-gamers. If thats what they really wanted, they'd already be gamers.

Graphics and online functionality, in all their splendor, have failed to bring them into the fold up to this point.

[RAMSTORIA]

Portable strenght... Xbox Portable?
http://www.pixelydixel.com/img06/xboxportable.jpg

what a piece of shit...

i want one...

[ChaoticClimax]

Portable strenght... Xbox Portable?
http://www.pixelydixel.com/img06/xboxportable.jpg

That thing is fucking awesome!

[mkg12]

I think people are counting out Sony way too early

[daroga]

Wrong. They are non-gamers. If thats what they really wanted, they'd already be gamers.

Graphics and online functionality, in all their splendor, have failed to bring them into the fold up to this point.I think you missed his point.

His point was that the Wii could end up being a gateway console to videogames at large. That they had never been gamers before, played the Wii, like it, and now would like to see more of what's out there. Once they're better aquainted with the concept of playing games, then the improvments and other features of the other consoles may hold some weight, where they wouldn't have before hand.

Personally, I don't think too many old folks will get a 360 after playing the Wii. I don't even think too many of them will actually get another game besides Wii Sports, but it could happen.

[yukine]

I think people are counting out Sony way too early
I agree, the PS3 is getting "owned" by the Wii at the moment, but we've yet to see what the PS3 is capable of. Wait for a year or so, Microsoft, until then you have no idea who you're really fighting this battle against.

[jkam]

I was able to grab a Wii yesterday at TRU for a relative and I have to say I am really shocked because I must have got there at just the right time. They had about 10 consoles when I walked in and they were gone in about a minute. Not only that but people were getting turned away. I'm glad I got mine on launch because I don't see this train slowing down any time soon. I definitely think the Wii is a different system but it is definitely a competitor.

I love how a lot of big name developers site power as the be all end all when the true potential lies in creativity. I think games like Okami and Shadow of Colossus are a good example of that. I really hope developers take the time to get to know the Wii...there is a lot of potential for some really great games with a unique play style. Zelda which is only a Gamecube game in design stands up against games like Gears of War and Resistance. It proves more can be done with less and it makes other developers look lazy or incompetent.

As for Sony...I like them and I own a PS1, PS2, and a PSP but their head is really bloated right now.

[mykevermin]

I really dont think Nintendo is a threat at all.

I agree. The Wii gaming experience is so different from the other consoles that I don't think you'll find, in a few years, people who *only* own a Wii. They'll supplement it with a PS3 or 360.

[botticus]

I agree. The Wii gaming experience is so different from the other consoles that I don't think you'll find, in a few years, people who *only* own a Wii. They'll supplement it with a PS3 or 360.I assume you're referring to those Wii owners who are also in the target PS3/360 audience? I'm pretty sure if my parents buy a Wii, they won't ever get a PS3 or 360. ;)

In that sense, you are probably correct. Unless 3rd parties bring quality "standard" games to the Wii in ways they didn't with the GameCube. In which case many of those consumers who don't really put much value in high-def will be satisfied, and the Wii will be much more in the same space as the others.

[mykevermin]

I assume you're referring to those Wii owners who are also in the target PS3/360 audience? I'm pretty sure if my parents buy a Wii, they won't ever get a PS3 or 360. ;)

In that sense, you are probably correct. Unless 3rd parties bring quality "standard" games to the Wii in ways they didn't with the GameCube. In which case many of those consumers who don't really put much value in high-def will be satisfied, and the Wii will be much more in the same space as the others.

You'll have to forgive me, then, for not really believing that there is a mass consumer base dying to get the Wii *that has never owned a console before*. Don't mistake what I'm saying for "demand for the Wii is low," because nothing could be further from the truth.

I'm just not yet convinced that (1) Nintendo is creating "new" gamers through the Wii that are willing to go out and buy a system on their own (or, rather, that this highly-touted cohort of new gamers will amount for a large percentage of the Wii's ownership base in 2-3 years), and I'm surely not convinced that the people buying and being turned away from buying a Wii right now are those very people (those whose attention spans will divert from the Wii if they don't buy it soon). I'm convinced that the people buying Wiis are those who hoped to make thousands selling PS3s, only to be ironically surprised by the one console they didn't expect to make lotsa money on, and the parents of snot-nosed shits who buy everything for their petulant bastards.

In other words, I don't see the "casual gamer" that Nintendo is trying to attract being the kind of consumer to go from store to store, day to day, to buy a Wii. I could be *totally* wrong, but such arguments run quite contrary to patterns of early technology adopters.

[Dogpatch]

Portable strenght... Xbox Portable?
http://www.pixelydixel.com/img06/xboxportable.jpg

Fully Interactive Lap Messager (FILM) :razz:

[botticus]

In other words, I don't see the "casual gamer" that Nintendo is trying to attract being the kind of consumer to go from store to store, day to day, to buy a Wii. I could be *totally* wrong, but such arguments run quite contrary to patterns of early technology adopters.Fair enough, I can't really argue that either way. There's been enough anecdotal evidence on either side.

But even in the case where Wii owners eventually get another console, that's still competition. Just like the previous generation, I had a GameCube, and eventually [will] get an Xbox (not for gaming at that point, obviously). Microsoft would have much preferred that I bought a 360 last year and started buying games for it rather than waiting till I bought a Wii and now waiting a few years before I get a 360.

And that Xboy is the worst concept design ever. The poor guy lost circulation in his legs just to pose for that photo.

[Zen Davis]

You'll have to forgive me, then, for not really believing that there is a mass consumer base dying to get the Wii *that has never owned a console before*. Don't mistake what I'm saying for "demand for the Wii is low," because nothing could be further from the truth.

I'm just not yet convinced that (1) Nintendo is creating "new" gamers through the Wii that are willing to go out and buy a system on their own (or, rather, that this highly-touted cohort of new gamers will amount for a large percentage of the Wii's ownership base in 2-3 years), and I'm surely not convinced that the people buying and being turned away from buying a Wii right now are those very people (those whose attention spans will divert from the Wii if they don't buy it soon). I'm convinced that the people buying Wiis are those who hoped to make thousands selling PS3s, only to be ironically surprised by the one console they didn't expect to make lotsa money on, and the parents of snot-nosed shits who buy everything for their petulant bastards.

In other words, I don't see the "casual gamer" that Nintendo is trying to attract being the kind of consumer to go from store to store, day to day, to buy a Wii. I could be *totally* wrong, but such arguments run quite contrary to patterns of early technology adopters.
I think the proof lies in the fact that the Wii is outpacing the initial sales of the 360. In addition, if you look at all the originating hype for the Wii, it was all aimed at mainstream consumers rather than early technology adopters (Time Magazine, L.A. Times, NY Times). The early adopters would have all already landed the systems by now by either pre-ordering the system or by paying off sellers on Ebay to get a system.

Additionally, in Japan, where Mr. Gates comments were aimed, Brain Age has kicked all kinds of ass and really, it would be silly to suggest that it was nominal gamers picking up all these copies of the game. The same holds true for Wii Bowling and Wii Sports. They've both consistently outsold The Legend of Zelda since launch and sales for those games are still keeping them up high on the Japanese charts. The fact is, Nintendo has made it work for them there as I'm sure they're making it work for them here.

There's been plenty of stories here on CAG where relatives who usually don't play games, handing off money in order to try and secure a Wii console for themselves. In fact, ESPN even did a similar story where the writer said his somewhat friend would find his way at his house in order to get their Wii on (even on Thanksgiving).

At the same time, I think Nintendo has their work cut out for them if they think non-gamers will go out of their way to get new games. Like someone said earlier in this thread, they'll get Wii Sports and only Wii Sports. That I think is the real threat to Nintendo's current trend to go after the non-gamer. Are these same people going to go and buy Warioware? Are they going to buy Wii Play? That's the only question time'll be able to answer.

[the3rdkey]

Nintendo is competing with no one FTW!!! ~ Nintendo

[Blackout]

I don't understand why everyone counts out sony even though they KILLED last generation. I really doubt they will crash and burn this gen. The Wii is cool now but I just feel its the gamecube all over again, with not a lot of interesting things to play down the road. I have a feeling Sony will come up on top this gen too.

[Chacrana]

I think people are counting out Sony way too early

Pfff, no. People here already bought a 360, so the PS3 has to fail and lose all of its exclusives. It's logical.

[pilferk]

I agree. The Wii gaming experience is so different from the other consoles that I don't think you'll find, in a few years, people who *only* own a Wii. They'll supplement it with a PS3 or 360.

I don't think you'll find many GAMERS who only own a Wii....that's true...I think you may find plenty of PEOPLE who only own a Wii.

Some of the new audience being brought in are coming in because of the simplicity and relatively easy learning curve of the controls on the Wii. They are not going to go to the 360 or PS3 (as they stand now) because they're too "complicated". They're not looking for high def, uber-complex, time consuming epic gaming experiences. They're looking for the next Wii sports. Some people are assuming the Wii is going to be a "gateway drug/console" type of thing....I'm not so sure it will.

Again, we can do nothing but speculate. But going by your assumption that the Wii becomes the alternate choice for many gamers (so they own a PS3 OR 360 AND then buy a Wii), AND assuming the Wii continues to bring in the alternate demo "new gamers" to the fold....I think you're looking at sales numbers that are certainly impessive. That strategy COULD, very well, put them in the #1 spot OR a very close #2 (assuming, again, that either the 360 or ps3 ends up conering the next-gen/uberpower market and they don't split evenly). Certainly good enough numbers to warrant development by 3rd parties, in any case.

[pilferk]

You'll have to forgive me, then, for not really believing that there is a mass consumer base dying to get the Wii *that has never owned a console before*. Don't mistake what I'm saying for "demand for the Wii is low," because nothing could be further from the truth.

I'm just not yet convinced that (1) Nintendo is creating "new" gamers through the Wii that are willing to go out and buy a system on their own (or, rather, that this highly-touted cohort of new gamers will amount for a large percentage of the Wii's ownership base in 2-3 years), and I'm surely not convinced that the people buying and being turned away from buying a Wii right now are those very people (those whose attention spans will divert from the Wii if they don't buy it soon). I'm convinced that the people buying Wiis are those who hoped to make thousands selling PS3s, only to be ironically surprised by the one console they didn't expect to make lotsa money on, and the parents of snot-nosed shits who buy everything for their petulant bastards.

In other words, I don't see the "casual gamer" that Nintendo is trying to attract being the kind of consumer to go from store to store, day to day, to buy a Wii. I could be *totally* wrong, but such arguments run quite contrary to patterns of early technology adopters.
It's certainly possible you're right.

There's quite a bit of anecodotal evidence to the contrary, but it IS anecdotal, so.....

But here's the thing: You can't deny that Nintendo IS marketing to that crowd. And you can't deny there has been HUGE press and hype, continuing even now, about the Wii and it's relative accessibility. You also can't deny there's been a multitude of reports of these types of gamers looking for and buying wii's. Certainly, as I said, anecdotal, but.....

You basically have made the assumption that Nintendo's overall marketing strategy is going to fail. I'm not sure that's a safe assumption given their success in exactly this type of thing, on a more limited scale, with the DS (and Brain Age, specifically). You're right in that we'll have to wait and see, once real demographic information is looked at, studies are done, etc. But it certainly wouldn't surprise me for Nintendo to make up for in "new gamers" what it looses in "hardcore" gamers who don't buy...and then some, maybe. I think that's their strategy, actually....

[pilferk]

I don't understand why everyone counts out sony even though they KILLED last generation. I really doubt they will crash and burn this gen. The Wii is cool now but I just feel its the gamecube all over again, with not a lot of interesting things to play down the road. I have a feeling Sony will come up on top this gen too.

Past success, in previous console wars, hasn't been the greatest of indicators.

Nintendo lost to Sega (or tied with them, depending on WHEN you want to say the "war" ended) who lost to Sony who managed to keep the lead with the PS2. It's certainly not a foregone conclusion that Sony will win just because they've won the last 2....the competition is a bit stiffer this time and Microsoft got a considerable head start with a console that, really, through all the hype, isn't looking too shabby next to a PS3. But it's early yet, you're right, to be sounding the death knell.

[jkam]

The real truth is competition comes out through the games the system has not the system. It seems everyone views the Wii as a system that is only capable of one type of game or gimmicky games. Super Smash Bros. Brawl will use the standard Gamecube controller. This means that the potential to have all kinds of games exists: motion-sensing and non motion-sensing. I think I read once that Nintendo was somewhat forcing developers to use the Wiimote but really they should let the developers decide. The Wii could definitely prosper from a DS like approach of new and different games as well as older standards. If the Wii gets DS-like support they will be a competitor to anyone.

Everyone thought the DS wouldn't be a competitor to the PSP mainly due to specs but now everyone talks about how it outsells the PSP time and time again.

The 360 is also seeing better sales due to having more games right now as well as some pretty good exclusives. They are also seeking out old Sony exclusives for their system (Grand Theft Auto+Virtua Fighter among others). If they can keep it up they will definitely gain ground this gen.

Sony is strong but they need all the 3rd party support they got in the last generation. It's too early to tell if Blu-Ray and the Cell will may a big impact in the graphics area. It's earlly but as of right now the games aren't looking superior. It's not that Sony won't do well but they have the most market share to lose. When you have 2 stronger competitors this generation it makes it harder to stay #1.

[Blackout]

Past success, in previous console wars, hasn't been the greatest of indicators.

Nintendo lost to Sega (or tied with them, depending on WHEN you want to say the "war" ended) who lost to Sony who managed to keep the lead with the PS2. It's certainly not a foregone conclusion that Sony will win just because they've won the last 2....the competition is a bit stiffer this time and Microsoft got a considerable head start with a console that, really, through all the hype, isn't looking too shabby next to a PS3. But it's early yet, you're right, to be sounding the death knell.

I'm glad the competition is stiffer. Last gen was no question Sony dominated. Last gen I owned all three systems and I am really suprised 360 is going so strong. When I had an Xbox it sucked ass. I want a 360 now and the same time a PS3. I just get sick of all this wii60 crap, when IMO in a couple years if Sony delivers they will be all over Sony again.

[furyk]

The one potentially great result of this is that Microsoft may try to match Nintendo's pricing structure. I could see a $300 "Core" system that comes with the 20 GB hard drive and the $400 Premium gaining a much larger hard drive, HDMI, and perhaps built in wireless.