What games aren't we allowed to critisize? And what causes fanbois?

[Wolfpup]

I was going to use the term "sacred cows", but realized that might be offensive (and I don't mean to be offensive by explaining that, but anyway...)


I've known for ages that Halo is one of these games. I had no idea the Metal Gear Solid series was until I posted a thread asking for feedback about MGS3 (at the least, MGS3 is, so I'm assuming the series as a whole is).

So what other games are like that, that have a fanatical following that's not based on quality, but just...well, whatever it is that causes fanbois?

I'm genuinely interested in this phenomenon, but can't really think of any off the top of my head. I guess too I mostly post in a board that doesn't have fanboys...I'm not sure why not either. I was thinking maybe fanboys tend to be younger, but I'm not sure if that's it either.

I have a feeling that if MGS is one of these games, then Zelda might be too. The forum I typically frequent can have an open discussion about either game without problem, but I bet that's not the case most places.

Anyway, apparently the list so far is:

Halo
Metal Gear Solid

What else?
And anyone care to venture what causes a fanboi?

[shipwreck]

I was going to use the term "scared cows", but realized that might be offensive (and I don't mean to be offensive by explaining that, but anyway...)

Who the fuck is scaring these cows anyway?!??

[Wolfpup]

Who the fuck is scaring these cows anyway?!??

:lol: Edited to read "Sacred" :D

[thagoat]

usually, bad spelling creates the problem.

[CriscoKidd]

definitely zelda.

[tholly]

probably the Final Fantasy series (as much as I don't like RPGs)

[PenguinMaster]

The huge backlash against Gamespot giving Twilight Princess an 8.8 (and the smaller backlash against it's rating of Zelda on VC) definitely shows the ridiculous rabid Zelda fans that prevent it from getting any criticism.

[tholly]

The huge backlash against Gamespot giving Twilight Princess an 8.8 (and the smaller backlash against it's rating of Zelda on VC) definitely shows the ridiculous rabid Zelda fans that prevent it from getting any criticism.


as much as i love the zelda series (i own every game in it 'cept the 2 oracle titles and the old cd-i titles) i will say that while TP was much better than WW, it was a little to easy and i got kinda bored with it and the fact that I didn't feel challenged at all ( i dont think i lost more than a couple hearts on any boss battle until the last one, and even then, it was a breeze)

[Chacrana]

You can't criticize anything on the Xbox 360. Everything on the PS3 is fair game though regardless of whether or not it's actually good.

[varsitygamer]

:lol: Edited to read "Sacred" :D


I read it after it was already edited, but i still read "Scared Crows."

i was way off.

[mykevermin]

definitely zelda.

I agree with what you and PenginMaster have to say. I really am digging me some Twilight Princess, but as of yet, it has been the *only* used Wii title I've seen for sale used (and then, on multiple - 5+ - occasions).

It made me contemplate starting a thread asking people, *if* they didn't like LoZ:TP, what they didn't like about it.

That thought was crushed the moment that I realized that the whole thread would be nothing but people accusing me of flame baiting and/or assuring me that nobody on the face of the earth *dare* dislike any Zelda franchise.

I'm not so sure about others. There are plenty of critics of Final Fantasy, from non-RPG players, to "real" RPG players (those who turn their nose at the SE franchise and think of it as an RPG with training wheels, for example), to those who have adored the franchise for years, but still think that FFVIII or IX stunk, VII was overrated, or that XII changes so many things that it's undeserving of the title "Final Fantasy." Exhibit B is Final Fantasy XI, which very few like, and even fewer play(ed). Then there's also Crystal Chronicles as well as FFX-2.

I'm tempted to think of people more than franchises; take, for instance, Shigeru Miyamoto. While the Mario franchise had its fill of lackluster or underwhelming titles, anyone who dares say anything bad about him is setting themselves up for virtual trouble.

I'd also throw in Ninja Gaiden and Ninja Gaiden Black (not the franchise, but the two Xbox games). I dug the hell out of Black, but anyone who dared say something negative about the game had the Itagaki-originated mantra "it's not the game that stinks, it's you that stinks at the game" blasted at them. Pretty genius marketing, in my opinion.

There's a more ambiguous selection of RPGs that are lauded by their collectibility and the praise of the handful of people who have played them. If you try to say "Suikoden and Suikoden II are hard to find because they suck and nobody bought them," you better call the Fire Department. Likewise, Xenogears (but not Xenosaga) is pretty much on the "untouchable" list.

That's about what I can think of. Perhaps Castlevania should be considered for nomination to the sacred list as well (or, at the very least, Dracula X: Rondo of Blood)?

[daroga]

Halo? Really? I've openly criticized Halo 2 since I got it. Maybe its online component was good, but it lived up to none of the hype in the single player. Halo 1 was superior in every way.

I think the principle issue that gets people riled up is when people speak badly about a beloved game or system without much to back it up (not unlike I did above to Halo 2). If people are knocking a game because of its actual faults and shortcomings and have good reasons to do so that they state that's one thing. It's another thing to make a thread stating, "Halo 2 sukkkkzz!" for for flamebait, or even better, generalizing about a whole company, "Sony is for looooooserz1!!11!"

If you make intelligent complaints or criticisms of a game, the intelligent fans of the game ought to respect that. It's the morons who over react one way or another.

[SpreadTheWord]

If you are criticizing any game that got over a 90% gamerankings score, then you can expect to met a lot of gamers who enjoyed it. And don't understand how you aren't enjoying it the same way.

[Puffa469]

The more popular a game is, the more vocal critics of it will be, and the more vocal fans of it will be.

[The Crotch]

Um. Pretty much any high-quality franchise with a solid record could be considered a "Sacred Cow". That includes - but is not limited to - Zeldas, Metroids, Final Fantasies (save for spin-offs), Half-Lifes, and Metal Gears. Halo is a sacred cow to a much lesser extent, due to its relative new-ness. GTAs are not sacred, partly because of their massive mainstream appeal, and partly because the first 3-or-4 fucking suck.

Games with major cult followings are obviously no-go's. Monkey Island, Grim Fandango, Ikaruga, and Suikodens.

Finally, anything made by Blizzard is untouchable. Diablo, WarCraft, StarCraft... hell, probably even those damn Vikings.

[dopa345]

No game is above criticism. After all, you are the world's expert on your own opinion so if you don't like a game no one should bash you for it.

I find it more annoying for people who for some reason don't like a popular game (which is fine) but then vocally bash it with the the fervor of a religious zealot as if their opinion is right and everyone else's happens to be wrong.

[whoknows]

You can't criticize anything on the Xbox 360. Everything on the PS3 is fair game though regardless of whether or not it's actually good.
Don't forget the Wii. You criticize that and you will be flamed to hell. You HAVE to love everything Nintendo does because they NEVER do anything wrong.

[depascal22]

The DS has become a sacred cow. People feel the need to bash the PSP all day every day but when it's pointed out that the DS has just as many derivative "cash grabs", people get all in a huff.

[Strell]

I dunno. I'd rather go after the games that are somewhat more obscure than the huge titles out there but kick a lot of damn ass, and say that they cannot be criticized. This includes the following:

Goonies II (NES)
River City Ransom (NES)
Ice Hockey (NES)
Earthbound (SNES)
Subspace/Continuum (PC Online Multiplayer)
Psychonauts (Xbox)
Katamari Damacy (PS2)

I'm sure there's several more. If you don't like the above games, you are insane, and I want you to wear tinfoil hats so I can identify you out in public. Yes. Hats. Multiple. I want one on your head, on each arm, your nose, and one shoved up your ass sideways.

I mean it is a losing battle to say "you can't criticize X" and then have X only be something everyone and their mom has played. That is setting yourself up for failure. Which is probably something you do in life already, so I guess that's par for the course.

(That last sentence is not aimed at anyone in particular, so shut up you pansies.)

(And really this whole post is useless. Purple monkey dishwasher.)

[wubb]

The Turok series. People go crazy if you try to say those games are anything approaching decent.

[furyk]

I think pretty much everything is fair game. Halo 2 takes shit rightfully for its story. Metal Gear Solid 2 gets blasted quite often by fans as well as the camera in MGS 3 (especially after Subsistence showed how bad it was). I personally give the two holy grails entries of Zelda and Final Fantasy, Ocarina of Time/FFVII, tons of shit and have right after they were released. Metroid seems like a pretty shielded series though. All of the entries were pretty high quality as far as I'm concerned, but not immune to criticism.

You can't please everyone ever. Each game has it's faults and strengths. I have yet to see a perfect game. I'll let you know if I do.

[rickonker]

I know what you mean OP, and I think the best example of this may be the Half-Life series. At least with Halo and MGS there are some common criticisms that are generally accepted. For example Halo 2's cliffhanger and MGS's long story. Even with Zelda: TP most people admit that it hasn't really changed much from previous Zelda games.

But Half-Life and Half-Life 2 are just not really criticized at all. Probably the most overrated games ever, even if you think they were good.

[judyjudyjudy]

If you are criticizing any game that got over a 90% gamerankings score, then you can expect to met a lot of gamers who enjoyed it. And don't understand how you aren't enjoying it the same way.Exactly. Nothing is above criticism. It's just if it's fairly popular, there's going to be more people disagreeing with you if you criticize it.

[schuerm26]

I agree with what you and PenginMaster have to say. I really am digging me some Twilight Princess, but as of yet, it has been the *only* used Wii title I've seen for sale used (and then, on multiple - 5+ - occasions).

It made me contemplate starting a thread asking people, *if* they didn't like LoZ:TP, what they didn't like about it.



I almost quit twilight princess about 3 hours after I started. I kept going and got to the forest temple and now I am hooked.

[Plinko]

as much as i love the zelda series (i own every game in it 'cept the 2 oracle titles and the old cd-i titles) i will say that while TP was much better than WW, it was a little to easy and i got kinda bored with it and the fact that I didn't feel challenged at all ( i dont think i lost more than a couple hearts on any boss battle until the last one, and even then, it was a breeze)

I'm in agreement--I love the Zelda series, but people just get in a huge bind if anyone says anything negative about any of the games.

That said, I still think Zelda: LTTP is near perfection.

[trq]

If this thread doesn't show you why these conversations tend to go the way they do, I don't know what will. Look at how many people simply trotted out their favorite dead horse for another round. "The 360/PS3/Wii/whateverthefuck is untouchable, because every time I tell people that it sucks balls and is super overrated, they get mad. They just can't see the truth, like me." Mm-hm. Sure.

The problem is usually with HOW the criticism is leveled, and WHAT the criticism is, not that there simply IS criticism. As was mentioned above, if a game is sitting above 90% on Gamerankings, and you start moaning about how much it sucked, you deserve the flames you'll surely get. You need to bring more to the table, and you need to bring it like an adult.

Look at it in a larger context. Take the Mona Lisa, the works of Shakespeare, whatever. If you think they suck, I assure you, it's YOU who doesn't get it. No, you don't have to like them. But it'll help your credibility immensely if you accept that it's a matter of you not caring for them, not the rest of the world being too stupid to realize they're shit, which is usually the shape these thing take. Note "the sacred cows" aren't total crap games? Not too many people standing up for "50 Cent: Bulletproof" are there? Same principle.

For that matter, I'm not entirely sure I'm willing to accept the OP's question in good faith. I mean, Halo, MGS, and Zelda "... have a fanatical following that's not based on quality?" Really? Let me guess: you're the one who, in those discussions elsewhere, was pointing out the flaws in Halo and Metal Gear Solid.

[Strell]

Do you know who trq is?

A badass motherfucker, that's who.

[terribledeli]

If this thread doesn't show you why these conversations tend to go the way they do, I don't know what will. Look at how many people simply trotted out their favorite dead horse for another round. "The 360/PS3/Wii/whateverthefuck is untouchable, because every time I tell people that it sucks balls and is super overrated, they get mad. They just can't see the truth, like me." Mm-hm. Sure.

The problem is usually with HOW the criticism is leveled, and WHAT the criticism is, not that there simply IS criticism. As was mentioned above, if a game is sitting above 90% on Gamerankings, and you start moaning about how much it sucked, you deserve the flames you'll surely get. You need to bring more to the table, and you need to bring it like an adult.

Look at it in a larger context. Take the Mona Lisa, the works of Shakespeare, whatever. If you think they suck, I assure you, it's YOU who doesn't get it. No, you don't have to like them. But it'll help your credibility immensely if you accept that it's a matter of you not caring for them, not the rest of the world being too stupid to realize they're shit, which is usually the shape these thing take. Note "the sacred cows" aren't total crap games? Not too many people standing up for "50 Cent: Bulletproof" are there? Same principle.

For that matter, I'm not entirely sure I'm willing to accept the OP's question in good faith. I mean, Halo, MGS, and Zelda "... have a fanatical following that's not based on quality?" Really? Let me guess: you're the one who, in those discussions elsewhere, was pointing out the flaws in Halo and Metal Gear Solid.

Seconded. The whole thing.

[dastly75]

I know what you mean OP, and I think the best example of this may be the Half-Life series. At least with Halo and MGS there are some common criticisms that are generally accepted. For example Halo 2's cliffhanger and MGS's long story. Even with Zelda: TP most people admit that it hasn't really changed much from previous Zelda games.

But Half-Life and Half-Life 2 are just not really criticized at all. Probably the most overrated games ever, even if you think they were good.

Probably because they're less popular. Although I can't find anything to complain about either of em. Then again I'm not the bitchy type, esp. in internet forums.

[Kayden]

Are you equating Halo 2 to Shakespeare? [-(

You're pretty much allowed to criticize any game, but then anyone is allowed to call you a dumb fucking n00b for not liking it.

And Strell, Goonies II does, infact, suck.


If this thread doesn't show you why these conversations tend to go the way they do, I don't know what will. Look at how many people simply trotted out their favorite dead horse for another round. "The 360/PS3/Wii/whateverthefuck is untouchable, because every time I tell people that it sucks balls and is super overrated, they get mad. They just can't see the truth, like me." Mm-hm. Sure.

The problem is usually with HOW the criticism is leveled, and WHAT the criticism is, not that there simply IS criticism. As was mentioned above, if a game is sitting above 90% on Gamerankings, and you start moaning about how much it sucked, you deserve the flames you'll surely get. You need to bring more to the table, and you need to bring it like an adult.

Look at it in a larger context. Take the Mona Lisa, the works of Shakespeare, whatever. If you think they suck, I assure you, it's YOU who doesn't get it. No, you don't have to like them. But it'll help your credibility immensely if you accept that it's a matter of you not caring for them, not the rest of the world being too stupid to realize they're shit, which is usually the shape these thing take. Note "the sacred cows" aren't total crap games? Not too many people standing up for "50 Cent: Bulletproof" are there? Same principle.

For that matter, I'm not entirely sure I'm willing to accept the OP's question in good faith. I mean, Halo, MGS, and Zelda "... have a fanatical following that's not based on quality?" Really? Let me guess: you're the one who, in those discussions elsewhere, was pointing out the flaws in Halo and Metal Gear Solid.

[trq]

Do you know who trq is?

A badass motherfucker, that's who.

Shut yo' mouth!

[trq]

Are you equating Halo 2 to Shakespeare?

Not in the story department, no, but I think you take my point anyway.

[daroga]

If this thread doesn't show you why these conversations tend to go the way they do, I don't know what will. Look at how many people simply trotted out their favorite dead horse for another round. "The 360/PS3/Wii/whateverthefuck is untouchable, because every time I tell people that it sucks balls and is super overrated, they get mad. They just can't see the truth, like me." Mm-hm. Sure.

The problem is usually with HOW the criticism is leveled, and WHAT the criticism is, not that there simply IS criticism. As was mentioned above, if a game is sitting above 90% on Gamerankings, and you start moaning about how much it sucked, you deserve the flames you'll surely get. You need to bring more to the table, and you need to bring it like an adult.

Look at it in a larger context. Take the Mona Lisa, the works of Shakespeare, whatever. If you think they suck, I assure you, it's YOU who doesn't get it. No, you don't have to like them. But it'll help your credibility immensely if you accept that it's a matter of you not caring for them, not the rest of the world being too stupid to realize they're shit, which is usually the shape these thing take. Note "the sacred cows" aren't total crap games? Not too many people standing up for "50 Cent: Bulletproof" are there? Same principle.

For that matter, I'm not entirely sure I'm willing to accept the OP's question in good faith. I mean, Halo, MGS, and Zelda "... have a fanatical following that's not based on quality?" Really? Let me guess: you're the one who, in those discussions elsewhere, was pointing out the flaws in Halo and Metal Gear Solid.I agree 100%.

The thing in art, literature, movies, games, is people have different tastes. You might love yourself some Madden, but hate Halo. Maybe you adore JRPGs and think Zelda is moronic. And that's fine, that's good, that's what makes us individuals. But calling people names or mocking them because they prefer something and dislike something you do like? That's not only arrogant, but plain stupid.

For example, I enjoy the Kirby 2D games a lot. They're short, easy, and just fun. A lot of people hate them because they're short and easy. That's cool. They probably really like games that I don't care for. But please, don't tell me my opinion is wrong and yours is right, and I'll pay you the same courtesy. There are something things in games that can approach an object suitable for objective criticisim (camera system, controls, graphic technology and implementation apart from art style), but in the end, it's pointless to argue that people are wrong because they like a certain game. Doing so is just plain stupid.

[urzishra14]

I'm in agreement--I love the Zelda series, but people just get in a huge bind if anyone says anything negative about any of the games.

That said, I still think Zelda: LTTP is near perfection.

you know, i agree with LTTP as close to perfection as a zelda game has reached. but according to many "zelda" fans.. that because i didn't like OOT or the 64 in general that i'm a lesser fan and that i'm not "worthy" to like zelda because of that.. I think the most vocal fans are zelda fans. I mean i've chatted with hard core FF fans and they can agree that some of the games in the series aren't up to snuff.. even halo fans can point out the flaws in the single player modes and the bugs in multiplayer. but talking to the majority of Zelda fans if you don't "love" anything that resembles OOT (and TP to me is exactly OOT just in a different costume) its like you just killed their mother or something.

MGS, i loved the first one, the ones that followed didn't "do it for me"

I play a lot of games but games i think are underrated or don't get the "fans" it deserves are games like Phantom Dust, not necessarily the game, but card based battles, I think it hasn't been capitalized on enough.

and I don't like Disgaea fans.. or Atlus be all end all fans.. same think with Suikoden series.. i liked Earthbound, but Kotor is where its at for me

yeah WOW isn't my thing and a lot of gamers get pissed when you bash it, same with Oblivion don't like it or Morrowind for that matter..

at least Madden fans don't complain.. i mean they don't even GET competition.

[camoor]

Shadow Hearts

However it's hard to completely blame the fanboys for circling the wagons around this one (there are few enough original ideas in RPGs these days, so you've got to applaud any series that takes risks)

Chrono Trigger

Castlevania (esp SOTN)

Wii Sports (It's only a demo apologists)

[Moxio]

Anything that comes from Square still seems to hit it pretty big.

[CriscoKidd]

If this thread doesn't show you why these conversations tend to go the way they do, I don't know what will. Look at how many people simply trotted out their favorite dead horse for another round. "The 360/PS3/Wii/whateverthefuck is untouchable, because every time I tell people that it sucks balls and is super overrated, they get mad. They just can't see the truth, like me." Mm-hm. Sure.

The problem is usually with HOW the criticism is leveled, and WHAT the criticism is, not that there simply IS criticism. As was mentioned above, if a game is sitting above 90% on Gamerankings, and you start moaning about how much it sucked, you deserve the flames you'll surely get. You need to bring more to the table, and you need to bring it like an adult.

Look at it in a larger context. Take the Mona Lisa, the works of Shakespeare, whatever. If you think they suck, I assure you, it's YOU who doesn't get it. No, you don't have to like them. But it'll help your credibility immensely if you accept that it's a matter of you not caring for them, not the rest of the world being too stupid to realize they're shit, which is usually the shape these thing take. Note "the sacred cows" aren't total crap games? Not too many people standing up for "50 Cent: Bulletproof" are there? Same principle.

For that matter, I'm not entirely sure I'm willing to accept the OP's question in good faith. I mean, Halo, MGS, and Zelda "... have a fanatical following that's not based on quality?" Really? Let me guess: you're the one who, in those discussions elsewhere, was pointing out the flaws in Halo and Metal Gear Solid.

I agree with this to a certain extent.

but it goes both ways. As much as I've seen people chime in with worthless "I wouldn't piss on this game if it were on fire" crap posts, there are plenty of people who blow off legit complaints and have their minds blown that someone can hate x game.

It really just depends how stupid/smart the people communicating are. I really don't get involved in the pointless flame wars all too much. It's just boring. What it all comes down to is taste. Music, movies, food, books, and, yes, video games are subjective.

[Wolfpup]

The huge backlash against Gamespot giving Twilight Princess an 8.8 (and the smaller backlash against it's rating of Zelda on VC) definitely shows the ridiculous rabid Zelda fans that prevent it from getting any criticism.

You're kidding! There was a backlash against an 8.8!?! Man, that is the mark of a fanboi.

Halo? Really? I've openly criticized Halo 2 since I got it. Maybe its online component was good, but it lived up to none of the hype in the single player. Halo 1 was superior in every way.

I think the principle issue that gets people riled up is when people speak badly about a beloved game or system without much to back it up (not unlike I did above to Halo 2). If people are knocking a game because of its actual faults and shortcomings and have good reasons to do so that they state that's one thing. It's another thing to make a thread stating, "Halo 2 sukkkkzz!" for for flamebait, or even better, generalizing about a whole company, "Sony is for looooooserz1!!11!"

If you make intelligent complaints or criticisms of a game, the intelligent fans of the game ought to respect that. It's the morons who over react one way or another.

Good point! It's a completely different thing to say you don't care for a game, and here's why, versus being a fanboi and attacking a game (or system, or whatever) for no reason.

Regarding Halo specifically, from my experience that's one of the biggest sacred cows. Just the fact that everyone's looking for a "Halo killer", as though it's the best shooter out there.

Someone mentioned something about Ninja Gaiden, and I think that principle applies wider. I know I've seen fanboi's defend things with "YOU JUST TEH SUXKS AT TEH GAMEZ!!!" (which is just wrong on so many levels, not the least of which is that playing games is about having FUN, not necessarily being any good at them or being "challenged" (unless that's whay you enjoy about them).

The DS has become a sacred cow. People feel the need to bash the PSP all day every day but when it's pointed out that the DS has just as many derivative "cash grabs", people get all in a huff.

I agree with the posts about Wii and DS being sacred cows. It's really kind of scary to me how people act about them.

The Turok series. People go crazy if you try to say those games are anything approaching decent.

A reverse sacred cow maybe? Hmm, interesting concept :)

I really liked the first game. Like the first Tomb Raider I thought it was flawed, but a brilliant start to a series (which was then run into the ground in both cases...until Legend of course).


You can't please everyone ever. Each game has it's faults and strengths. I have yet to see a perfect game. I'll let you know if I do.

Deus Ex. Nethack. Two best games ever :D And the second game's free!

[furyk]

Easy, Nethack has shit graphics and only kids with a sense of humor can enjoy Nethack. That knocks out 90% of the gaming audience right then and there. I still love it though.

Deus Ex has meh graphics even for its time, a lack of different enviorments, and there were way too many sections where you had to "hack" that should have much more then press a button, wait five-ten seconds, hurrah "hack" complete.

Anything.... anything has some flaws that can be pointed out.

[camoor]

Deus Ex.

I played the PS2 version.

Story was kinda interesting, but gameplay gave me a headache. Quit after level 2, I'll never understand how that game gets high reviews.

[The Crotch]

Deus Ex has meh graphics even for its time, a lack of different enviorments, and there were way too many sections where you had to "hack" that should have much more then press a button, wait five-ten seconds, hurrah "hack" complete.
Of course, if you spend anything over another five-ten seconds, hurrah, sentry-gun city. It's more complex than you make it sound.

Having said that, the graphics were pretty bad, and the Hong Kong level was horrendous.

As for the question of "are there any perfect games?" I don't really know. Street Fighter II? Super Metroid? Link to the Past? I can't really think of any flaws in any of those games...

[Wolfpup]

Of course, if you spend anything over another five-ten seconds, hurrah, sentry-gun city. It's more complex than you make it sound.

Having said that, the graphics were pretty bad, and the Hong Kong level was horrendous.


What are you guys talking about with Deus Ex having bad graphics? It looks fine now, and looked fantastic in 2000. It's the game that got me to spend a huge amount of money buying hardware that could do it justice. (Or are you talking about the Playstation 2 port?)

[The Crotch]

What are you guys talking about with Deus Ex having bad graphics? It looks fine now, and looked fantastic in 2000. It's the game that got me to spend a huge amount of money buying hardware that could do it justice. (Or are you talking about the Playstation 2 port?)

No, I'm talking about the PC version. I doesn't really bug me at all - I'm still playing Ultima Underwold, for fuck's sake - but it's still not very high up in the "looks" department.. By far the worst part of the game, though, is the swimming. Specifically, trying to get out of the water. Apparently, Mr. Denton is very slippery-when-wet.

[Wolfpup]

I'm just surprised to hear a complaint about the graphics. In some ways they still do things most games don't (basically no console games) in terms of the huge levels all being active at once, where you can look out across an area and plan things out ahead of time, etc.

I guess I'd have to ask when you first played it, and on what hardware, because I can't think of a better looking game when it was released.

[camoor]

I'm just surprised to hear a complaint about the graphics. In some ways they still do things most games don't (basically no console games) in terms of the huge levels all being active at once, where you can look out across an area and plan things out ahead of time, etc.

I guess I'd have to ask when you first played it, and on what hardware, because I can't think of a better looking game when it was released.

:lol:

Have you read the title of this thread ;)

[Strell]

:lol:

Have you read the title of this thread ;)

Or...you know...made the damn thread?

[davidjinfla]

What causes fanbois? On the net everyone is safe from retaliation so they say things they would never say in public and insult people they don't even know. Also because most fanbois are younger they are more passionate and less tolerant of ideas that challenge thier justifications for loving something probabaly more than is healthy. Most people grow up and get over it.

What games aren't we allowed to citisize? The ones that defined what gaming meant for specific platforms or times. These games that people have poured hours, days, weeks, months, and years into or just by mention of a title can instantly bring total recall of playing the first time and the joy it gave us. Of course its how you critique a game don't blame the person who likes the game. usually people who get flamed for downing a game also insulted the audience who liked those games or series. Of course the overreactions these audiences provide can be entertaining as well.

[zewone]

If this thread doesn't show you why these conversations tend to go the way they do, I don't know what will. Look at how many people simply trotted out their favorite dead horse for another round. "The 360/PS3/Wii/whateverthefuck is untouchable, because every time I tell people that it sucks balls and is super overrated, they get mad. They just can't see the truth, like me." Mm-hm. Sure.

The problem is usually with HOW the criticism is leveled, and WHAT the criticism is, not that there simply IS criticism. As was mentioned above, if a game is sitting above 90% on Gamerankings, and you start moaning about how much it sucked, you deserve the flames you'll surely get. You need to bring more to the table, and you need to bring it like an adult.

Look at it in a larger context. Take the Mona Lisa, the works of Shakespeare, whatever. If you think they suck, I assure you, it's YOU who doesn't get it. No, you don't have to like them. But it'll help your credibility immensely if you accept that it's a matter of you not caring for them, not the rest of the world being too stupid to realize they're shit, which is usually the shape these thing take. Note "the sacred cows" aren't total crap games? Not too many people standing up for "50 Cent: Bulletproof" are there? Same principle.

For that matter, I'm not entirely sure I'm willing to accept the OP's question in good faith. I mean, Halo, MGS, and Zelda "... have a fanatical following that's not based on quality?" Really? Let me guess: you're the one who, in those discussions elsewhere, was pointing out the flaws in Halo and Metal Gear Solid.
What I wanted to express, but you already did. Agreed.

[camoor]

Or...you know...made the damn thread?

:lol::applause:

Good call!

[Wolfpup]

Or...you know...made the damn thread?

:lol: I'm just seriously wanting to know about that. Saying Deus Ex had bad graphics would be like saying Doom 3 or Half-Life 2 or Crysis have bad graphics relative to their release dates.

[VanillaGorilla]

Obviously, to the mainstream media, the Final Fantasy games are above criticism. Just once, I would like to see EGM or Game Informer not publish a Final Fantasy review that's filled with hyperbole and complete BS.

[NamPaehc]

Grand Theft Auto is one I bite my tongue when I hear my friend (and a lot of other people) saying how great the series is. I like it but I can never point out anything negative about it or there is something wrong with me in the eyes of others. :)

[depascal22]

I don't like any of the GTA series. I thought the early Driver games did driving better. The aiming system is horribly broken. There isn't enough variety in the world to be a true sandbox game. I mean if I start beating people down in a neighborhood, people around the corner should know who I am and start running. Cops should be called and I shouldn't be able to show my face around there until the heat cools down. I never see that. Let's see what the "fanbois" do with that.

[Pure.Gamerbilly]

I will always make fun of Halo, simply because it is overrated. It's nothing special to me.

Lots of Neo Geo games are untouchable: Metal Slug 3, King of Fighters '98 and '02, Last Blade 1&2, Blazing Star, Garou: Mark of the Wolves, Fatal Fury Special. The list is pretty long... Pretty much any Neo Geo game is golden to a Neo Geo fan. ;)

People don't like to see Radiant Silvergun get bad press. The Phantasy Star games don't deal to well with criticism (with the exception of III).

[TheOneGod]

We are not allowed to Criticize any series that has gone astray.

For example the Bionic Commando series. For many years all people knew was the NES game and said it was good while other people found out about the other versions realizing there was a Arcade game.

You can't complain about Bionic Commando since we all know it is made up fiction based on the events and superstition of WWII.

More importantly Bionic Commando is still fresh where you can do almost anything with it and people will say it is good. So anything that is like Bionic Commando we can't complain.

Other game series is as followed.

Dragon Quest. Each game story is different was unrelated to the last game.
Metroid. The creator left the building and there is no way to say good or bad.
Rockman. The creator left the building so there is no way to say good or bad.
Beyond Good and Evil. Never really was finished so it stays fresh in the mind.

Now if you ever seen the film "Surviving Picasso" . The scene where Picasso is talking with a American reporter ( kinda like the one reporting the Middle East ). The reporter begs him to draw something anything. He makes a couple of lines and calls it's art and says that it is art since it is never finished and he never finishes any of his works.

In terms of Picasso games like these are art since nobody really finish them people go crazy for them and hang them from there walls. It is like a human life it is never finished and once it is gone there is nothing you can do but stare at the remaining body and watch it turn to dust.

Now when it comes to games like

Mario
Zelda
Kirby
Sonic

They never finished the original series. In reality they just created more games and play the "It does not matter game...... what are you some kind of loser".

Kinda like if the writer of Harry Potter just decides that Harry family cam from a long line of Clowns who converted to sorcery. However they already did this in the movies by adding the stereotype Jamaican bus driver. Now all the people who respect the book do not care since they say it is just a movie but the people who respects all variations of Harry Potter would be ticked off but then again the auidence barely cares about this addition.

Lastly games like.

Starfox
Virtua Fighter
Biohazard
Nights

You can't complain about things like graphics since all these games at the time was 3d ground shakers while having nice gameplay the main purpose was to show off the 3d capabilities not to have any gameplay value at all.

However the games was creative and more importantly simply. Starfox was just a shooter like any other, Virtua Fighter is really just a regular fighting game, Biohazard made use of movie like Cameras angles, and Nights makes absolutely no sense at all but the idea of flying around freely in demision like ours but not ours was just cool.

Now that most games are in 3d now so these games fall into the other catergories of why to complain and why not complain.

Still in terms of reviews everything is good and nothing is bad the real challenge is to find something bad.

[Strell]

However they alredy did this in the movies by adding the stereotype Jamaican bus driver. Now all the people who respect the book do not care since they say it is just a movie but the people who respects all variations of Harry Potter would be ticked off but then again the auidence barely cares about this addition.

While I don't understand a goddamn thing you said, I want to point out that you are way off here. There is no Jamaican bus driver. There was a shrunken head with a Jamaican overtone, but the actual driver was an incredibly old white man. Which I guess means you don't really have a point here....

[The Crotch]

While I don't understand a goddamn thing you said, I want to point out that you are way off here. There is no Jamaican bus driver. There was a shrunken head with a Jamaican overtone, but the actual driver was an incredibly old white man. Which I guess means you don't really have a point here....
Don't argue with RegalSin. While your rhetorical skills are undeniably great, I fear that, like the tragic figure of Greek legend, you too will fly too close to the sun. Your punishment will be swift, and when TOG is finished, you will be but an empty shell of a man.

[Kayden]

Don't argue with RegalSin. While your rhetorical skills are undeniably great, I fear that, like the tragic figure of Greek legend, you too will fly too close to the sun. Your punishment will be swift, and when TOG is finished, you will be but an empty shell of a man.

:wall:

Why do people encourage him?

[Strell]

Don't argue with RegalSin. While your rhetorical skills are undeniably great, I fear that, like the tragic figure of Greek legend, you too will fly too close to the sun. Your punishment will be swift, and when TOG is finished, you will be but an empty shell of a man.

Are we confirmed this is indeed RS? I had a slight suspicion when reading the post, but I was not sure.

I will require several vials of unicorn's blood to progress further. And some eye of newt. The wildberry kind.

Edit: Ahhh. Sir Kayden, had I known that was him, I wouldn't have responded. I mean, he used actual words this time. Words! Not unlike you'd find in a library.

[depascal22]

The evolution of Regal Sin? His post made absolutely no sense but it actually had some structure to it. There were complete sentences and the word were all spelled corretly. Is he some computer somewhere that's gaining sentience?

[TheOneGod]

While I don't understand a goddamn thing you said, I want to point out that you are way off here. There is no Jamaican bus driver. There was a shrunken head with a Jamaican overtone, but the actual driver was an incredibly old white man. Which I guess means you don't really have a point here....

It does not matter if the character was a mouse it is still Jamaican. He had the hair, the accent, and the speak say. Any Jamaican related person would state this character a Stereotype. I am not going to have this conversation. You obviously can't understand the words of god.

[depascal22]

It does not matter if the character was a mouse it is still Jamaican. He had the hair, the accent, and the speak say. Any Jamaican related person would say the samt thing Stereotype. I am not going to have this conversation. You obviously can't understand the words of god.

Now you're just being an effin prick.

[judyjudyjudy]

Are we confirmed this is indeed RS? I had a slight suspicion when reading the post, but I was not sure.I was about to cast my doubts because the post had some proper grammar and sentence structure, but the last post and lack of denial has convinced me otherwise.

[TheOneGod]

Now you're just being an effin prick.

Now you are just calling me names over somebody dictating something to me which they prefer not to comprehend.

[argyle]

I usually catch a lot of flak when I mention that I didn't like Shadow of the Colossus. Seems to be the same for Beyond Good & Evil and Eternal Darkness. Of course, I always recommend people ignore me on those and try the games out for themselves (which is, y'know...what people should do anyway...). I realize I'm in the minority on those, but that doesn't make my opinions any less (or more) valid. :)

[STATIC3D]

Okay, my turn. :}

What makes a fanboy/fanboi?
Lack of objectivity.

It's pretty much as simple as that. Anyone willing to overlook (and/or ignore) the facts of a situation is pretty much lost in the first place...lol. But, there are many instances where people don't understand the difference between a fact and a preference.

It's like asking if Mortal Kombat or Street Fighter is better...you will get people that side with either game for (usually) personal reasons based on preference. While there may be some actual "facts" that could be pointed at (graphics, control issues, etc.) for any game, the fanboy types are usually (okay 99.9% of the time) unwilling/unable to admit there is ANYTHING that can be seen as negative about their favorite.

ANY game is (and should) be considered fair game when it comes to evaluating/reviewing it for pros (positives) AND cons (negatives). As cool/neat/pretty/fun any game can be, that does not mean there is absolutely no room for improvement. Some people think each game should only be reviewed/evalutated on it's own merits and not compared to what else is out. That's a nice idea, but it just doesn't work all that well (mainly because we live in a comparative type world).

However, that does not mean a game can't stand on it's own. But, other games on the market must also be taken into consideration when reviewing/evaluating something. [However, that does not mean reviews (especially in magazines and/or game websites) should focus more on the game being compared that the game being reviewed...yes, I've seen that too.] In any case, each and every aspect that makes up a game should be evaluated fairly (both the good and bad points about it).

I think part of what hurts the ability for people to be objective about a game is some of the sheep mentality that allows them to accept a game based on it's "popularity" instead of the actual game itself. Hype can go a LONG way into helping propel a game into a higher status area when it truely isn't as great as all that...lol. For example, how many people rushed out to buy Halo 2 that had not even played Halo 1? (more than you would probably imagine). It's just too easy for some people to get caught up into something that's popular like that.

[Strell]

It does not matter if the character was a mouse it is still Jamaican. He had the hair, the accent, and the speak say. Any Jamaican related person would state this character a Stereotype. I am not going to have this conversation. You obviously can't understand the words of god.

Indeed!

Those darn Jamaicans! Leading such leisurely lives that they cut off their bodies! "Arms?" they say when you ask about them. "Arms are for de feeshes, mon!" and they cast them aside into the briny deep surrounding their lush tropical island! "And legs? Let them dance upon the sands!" and they bring knife to skin and let them jitter their way into freshly dug burrows, to live out their leggy lives.

Oh what crafty individuals they are! How I envy them! And the moment that shrunken head went up on the screen I was thinking "He had the speak say! DAMN YOU J.K. ROWLINGS! DAMN YOUR BLACK HEART!"

And then I proceeded to piss all over the movie screen in a fit of self-release induced rage.

...

It was the greatest birthday ever!