"No one wants a PS3 anymore. We are asked about the Wii every 5 minutes though."

[MSI Magus]

Was just watching Attack of the show and they were covering the news. They talked about how Sony says they have shipped all their systems, yet blogs all over the internet have been reporting tons of PS3s just sitting on the shelf and even rumors like walmart not buying anymore PS3s because they have so many. Hell we see one at this board multiple times a day. They didnt just want to report this news though they decided to look into it. They sent their interns out in the city to check multiple stores like best buys and they claim that not only did they find it to be true, but when asking store reps about it one commented "No one wants a PS3 anymore. We are asked about the Wii every five minutes though".

All I can say is ouch. Its kinda hard for fanboys to argue the PS3 isnt having a demmand problem right now. Not only have we seen all these pics in blogs and not only have most of us experienced finding PS3s on shelf....but now we have people doing research into it on TV and finding it to be true.

[jkam]

It's not suprising....it's not easy to sell a $500-$600 console with such a small selection of games. It's going to take a least a year for them to get rolling. As a Wii60 owner I'm not really looking at the PS3 right now.

[CocheseUGA]

Is it really that surprising at the price points? Because when you think about it, that's what it comes down to. Reverse the roles and you have the exact opposite.

I like the idea of the Wii's control system because of the price. I don't like the PS3 (even though I like the games) because of the price. Once Sony puts a price drop into effect, they'll see the sales they want.

[botticus]

:lol: So they went out and confirmed internet anecdotes with their own anecdotes? Nice.

If they want to report on it as a news outlet, go talk to corporate retail offices and ask about chain-wide product availability.

[mykevermin]

Was just watching Attack of the show

That's your problem right there.

[MSI Magus]

:lol: So they went out and confirmed internet anecdotes with their own anecdotes? Nice.

If they want to report on it as a news outlet, go talk to corporate retail offices and ask about chain-wide product availability.

Agreed it would be nice if they did that. However with a system in such limited supply as the PS3 if there are systems sitting on store shelves at most stores you go to...it means there is a demmand problem.

[wubb]

:lol: So they went out and confirmed internet anecdotes with their own anecdotes? Nice.

If they want to report on it as a news outlet, go talk to corporate retail offices and ask about chain-wide product availability.

Good point. Although my own anecdotal experience also jibes with this.

(Posted this on the OTT a couple days ago)

So I was in a local Gamestop the other day and asked the guy (just for curiousity's sake)

Me: "So DS lites are hard to find?"
GS: "Oh yeah, wait is through the end of the month now."
Me: "And Wii's go fast?"
GS: "Yep."
Me: "PS3s?"
GS: "We have 6 or 7 sitting in the back room."
Me: "Wow, when did they start just sitting on the shelf?"
GS: "Just after the initial rush. We had several come back as returns after Xmas as well."

I actually saw DS lite's at a local Best Buy the day before, but I guess more people look to GS (or they get less in.)

[botticus]

Agreed it would be nice if they did that. However with a system in such limited supply as the PS3 if there are systems sitting on store shelves at most stores you go to...it means there is a demmand problem.Not at all arguing that (iTrackr shows 80% national availability, and 28 of 29 local stores show in stock here - the 1 is CompUSA; in addition, my EB has a pile of 10-15 PS3s that's taller than one of the employees). Just a worthless way for them to report on it.

[shipwreck]

Their problem right now is that a large percentage of hardcore gamers and techies can't even justify buying a PS3. Without the traditional early adopters on board, you end up with product just sitting on shelves. Not many "casual" people are going to go out and spend $600+ on a video game system or movie player 3 weeks after Christmas.

[MSI Magus]

Their problem right now is that a large percentage of hardcore gamers and techies can't even justify buying a PS3. Without the traditional early adopters on board, you end up with product just sitting on shelves. Not many "casual" people are going to go out and spend $600+ on a video game system or movie player 3 weeks after Christmas.

Well and I wouldnt have thought so till recently but...I do think hardcore gamers opinions matter now. Iv had several people come up and ask me if they should get a PS3, Xbox360 or a Wii since this whole thing started. I think in the past people would have just bought one and risked it, but with the price different being so high between Wii and Xbox and then Xbox and PS3 people are actually asking gamers they know what to buy. Even people I dont know that well that know im a gamer have asked me. At the end of last semester I had a two different people in my speach class who knew I was a gamer from a speach I gave as well as that im always playing with my DS approach me about this. 1 was buying a system for her boyfriend and another for her husband, with the price differences they had no clue what to do.

[coolsteel]

Funny this topic came up, I went to two gamestops yesterday and both had ps3's in stock, I only knew it because at both locations they were trying hard as hell to sell the Wii by telling people the ps3's hadn't moved in a few days. I would have thought this was a fluke but I hit Best Buy before going home, a HUGE sign on the front door saying ps3's still in stock, this is around 8:30 pm so they've gone from selling out within 30 minutes to sitting all day in this area.

[HuBu]

Their problem right now is that a large percentage of hardcore gamers and techies can't even justify buying a PS3. Without the traditional early adopters on board, you end up with product just sitting on shelves. Not many "casual" people are going to go out and spend $600+ on a video game system or movie player 3 weeks after Christmas.

they will if they want to watch Descent in BR.

here something from the Thank You Network.
PlayStation® 3
ThankYouSM Item #: 1112182
46,000 Points

And this is the amount of points I have 46,755 pts. Just need it to be back in stock and find a way to convince the wife that we need a BR disc player.

[Backlash]

I wouldn't buy a PS3 even if it was $300 right now - there just aren't any games I want on it yet. Give it time to build a decent library, especially some great exclusives.

[ArthurDigbySellers]

Ship hit the nail on the head. BTW, just to add more anecdotal evidence, both the Circuit City and GS that I went to yesterday had PS3s in stock. The GS even had a sign on the front door letting people know that they had PS3s.

[HuBu]

for $300, the ps3 would make a great HiDef movie player.

[shipwreck]

they will if they want to watch Descent in BR.

Okay, I've read this at least 5 times now and I still can't discern whether that was a joke for me to laugh at or just something for me to laugh at.

[RAMSTORIA]

Ship hit the nail on the head. BTW, just to add more anecdotal evidence, both the Circuit City and GS that I went to yesterday had PS3s in stock. The GS even had a sign on the front door letting people know that they had PS3s.

they are making us put up a sign that says ps3s are in stock when we have them. my store had 5 yesterday when i got off work, i bet we still do today. i had 6 wiis two days ago, those were sold out in about 20 minutes. and the phone calls are killing me, its hard to keep a smile on your face after the 247th one.

i think its just a high price, with a small game selection, a lot of the launch or before christmas titles were pushed back to the spring. i would expect to see sales go up around then.

[seanr1221]

As others have said its the price point and the lack of exclusives right now. Give it some time and it will pick up. I know if I could score a 20GB for 300.00 I would in a second.

[HuBu]

Okay, I've read this at least 5 times now and I still can't discern whether that was a joke for me to laugh at or just something for me to laugh at.

just a jab at the new problem with Sony's BR coding.

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/01/09/horror-film-blu-ray-disc-plays-only-on-ps3/

[shipwreck]

just a jab at the new problem with Sony's BR coding.

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/01/09/horror-film-blu-ray-disc-plays-only-on-ps3/

Ah okay, that's the movie that had that problem. That makes more sense to me now.

Maybe iheartmetal should add something about the Descent exclusive to that sign he hung up. That should get them moving.

[RAMSTORIA]

Ah okay, that's the movie that had that problem. That makes more sense to me now.

Maybe iheartmetal should add something about the Descent exclusive to that sign he hung up. That should get them moving.

i would but i dont want to have a riot on my hands.

[Puffa469]

I agree with this 100%. Im that person at my workplace, that everyone asks about these new game systems. Wether they want one for themselves, or a spouse, or child, they all ask me.

I know for a fact Ive sold a few Wii's and DSlites thru my reccomendations. Anyone interested in a more powerful system I reccomend the 360 to. And thru talking to these people, I see that even the non gaming layperson understands that the PS3 is overpriced and not any better than the X360. I dont personally know a single person who picked up a PS3 since its come out.



Well and I wouldnt have thought so till recently but...I do think hardcore gamers opinions matter now. Iv had several people come up and ask me if they should get a PS3, Xbox360 or a Wii since this whole thing started. I think in the past people would have just bought one and risked it, but with the price different being so high between Wii and Xbox and then Xbox and PS3 people are actually asking gamers they know what to buy. Even people I dont know that well that know im a gamer have asked me. At the end of last semester I had a two different people in my speach class who knew I was a gamer from a speach I gave as well as that im always playing with my DS approach me about this. 1 was buying a system for her boyfriend and another for her husband, with the price differences they had no clue what to do.

[MSI Magus]

I agree with this 100%. Im that person at my workplace, that everyone asks about these new game systems. Wether they want one for themselves, or a spouse, or child, they all ask me.

I know for a fact Ive sold a few Wii's and DSlites thru my reccomendations. Anyone interested in a more powerful system I reccomend the 360 to. And thru talking to these people, I see that even the non gaming layperson understands that the PS3 is overpriced and not any better than the X360. I dont personally know a single person who picked up a PS3 since its come out.

Iv not been so lucky. Iv had to sell 360s every time. Dont get me wrong 360 is a decent system and all but I want Nintendo to win out and sell their systems. Everyone thats asked me so far though would be better off with a 360 though since its been people who are looking for things like Sports titles. I cant in good concious say buy your Husband/Boyfriend a Wii over a 360 given that.

[furyk]

Iv not been so lucky. Iv had to sell 360s every time. Dont get me wrong 360 is a decent system and all but I want Nintendo to win out and sell their systems. Everyone thats asked me so far though would be better off with a 360 though since its been people who are looking for things like Sports titles. I cant in good concious say buy your Husband/Boyfriend a Wii over a 360 given that.

At the moment, yeah. The 360 is without a doubt the best system on the market in terms of games. I would have bought one myself by now, but with all the rumors swirling about a new 360 I think I'm holding off for now.

As for game genres, it really depends what you're looking for. Sports you're probably best off with a 360 right now, but in the long run I don't think it'll matter too much. The only thing that can really be counted on at this point is 360 = prefered system for FPSes, PS3 = great looking JRPGs, Wii = a good mix of platformers, mini games, etc based on their mascots. That doesn't mean there are no JRPGs on the 360 or the PS3 doesn't have any "mascot" games, but there is a clear winner for a few game genres already.

[kell]

I've been doing a lot of running around lately and almost every Walmart, Target and GS/eb has had PS3s in stock. In fact, one Walmart had so many that they shoved some in the Nintendo cabinet where the Wiis should be... I am glad I picked up a Wii when I did, as I thought they would be easy to find.

[mykevermin]

At the moment, yeah. The 360 is without a doubt the best system on the market in terms of games. I would have bought one myself by now, but with all the rumors swirling about a new 360 I think I'm holding off for now.

As for game genres, it really depends what you're looking for. Sports you're probably best off with a 360 right now, but in the long run I don't think it'll matter too much. The only thing that can really be counted on at this point is 360 = prefered system for FPSes, PS3 = great looking JRPGs, Wii = a good mix of platformers, mini games, etc based on their mascots. That doesn't mean there are no JRPGs on the 360 or the PS3 doesn't have any "mascot" games, but there is a clear winner for a few game genres already.

That's true, for the moment. It'll become moot once the PS3 gets some solid sports titles (releasing Madden '07 at the system's launch is about as meaningful as releasing MGS2: Substance on the Xbox a long while after the game's release: as popular as Madden is, it surely thrives on early adopters, and the sales trends bottom out until the price drop comes 'round). Once EA Sports Franchises ver. '08 come out on the PS3 and 360 on the same day, that advantage will decline. OTOH, some sports franchises seem awfully tempting to get for the Wii exclusively. For instance, I don't play golf games much (though the Tiger Woods demo on 360 was damned good), but Tiger Woods on the Wii has me anticipating it (though I know nothing about it!).

Really, there's no genuine software advantage for the PS3 or Wii at this point, IMO, save for Nintendo's push of the VC (and, contrary to people's grousing, they're doing a helluva job with it, IMO). The next 12-24 months will be quite telling. Even though I own all three systems, I don't think there's really any reason to early adopt either the Wii or PS3.

[furyk]

Even though I own all three systems, I don't think there's really any reason to early adopt either the Wii or PS3.

Yeah, there isn't. It's easier to justify a Wii since $250 with a game that practically everyone loves is an easier pill to swallow then a $400 (at launch) 360 or a $500-600 PS3. Still, I had to do a lot of justifying of a few mediocre titles or ports to get the Wii up to my 5 games I really want to buy the system clause.

[mykevermin]

Yeah, there isn't. It's easier to justify a Wii since $250 with a game that practically everyone loves is an easier pill to swallow then a $400 (at launch) 360 or a $500-600 PS3. Still, I had to do a lot of justifying of a few mediocre titles or ports to get the Wii up to my 5 games I really want to buy the system clause.

Yeah...but hasn't that always been the case with console launches? There's a major point in the argument that $250 is far easier to swallow than $500 in this case. I'm not arguing your points, but refining what I was thinking (in this case, that there being little incentive to adopt a new console at its launch has always been rather low from a software quality perspective, with few - Dreamcast, perhaps SNES - exceptions).

[Setzer]

That's your problem right there.

Yup, AOTS is Anti-Sony.

[furyk]

Yeah...but hasn't that always been the case with console launches? There's a major point in the argument that $250 is far easier to swallow than $500 in this case. I'm not arguing your points, but refining what I was thinking (in this case, that there being little incentive to adopt a new console at its launch has always been rather low from a software quality perspective, with few - Dreamcast, perhaps SNES - exceptions).

Well, let me put it this way. There have been three consoles (four counting the Lite) I bought at launch. One was the 360 which I had no problem re-selling after my car's engine broke on the drive home (yes, I spent 8 hours waiting for a 360 only to have my car's engine explode on the way home). I bought the Dreamcast also and the Wii at launch. As it stands, the Dreamcast is my favorite system of all time for me, but the DS Lite giving it a ton of competition though as my favorite. While I do get caught up in the hype, I don't get really caught up in the hype and every game I own for my Wii, I would get eventually (either on clearance/used).

While I do a good bit of justifying of my purchases, I don't do it to the point where I'm blinding myself to reality. Granted, the DS has gotten me much more excited about Nintendo then I have been in years, but I seriously doubt that plays so much in me being a Wii defender. While I think it's a better value to a gamer in terms of what's out right now to get a 360, this is only the second time (first the Dreamcast) I can say buying a console at launch is not a lot of justifying your purchase waiting for it to actually be worth it.

[Puffa469]

Yup, AOTS is Anti-Sony.

riiiiight. Thats why they had hours of special launch day programming when the ps3 came out. :roll:

[MSI Magus]

riiiiight. Thats why they had hours of special launch day programming when the ps3 came out. :roll:

Agreed. I dont think they are anti Sony per say. Last gen they were all over sonys jock. However, AotS credits itself on being "hip". The guy that blogs Kotaku was recently invited on as an industry expert and posted that while he has been on many big big programs for networks like CNN NONE of them have had dress codes. Yet AotS sent him a message saying please dont wear a suit, bright or flashy colors and try and dress cool, we pride ourselves on being hip and cool.

Right now Sony isnt exactly the most popular kid on the block and AotS being so up to date and cool and hip, or atleast trying to be...is not going to say go go Sony. G4 as a whole takes this view, they try to mirror what the kids think, they are not cool enough yet to be MTV where they instead set the trends on what kids think.

[mykevermin]

Yup, AOTS is Anti-Sony.

Oh, I don't know that it's anti-anything, except for good television.

(yes, I spent 8 hours waiting for a 360 only to have my car's engine explode on the way home)

:rofl:

As for the rest of your post, I don't really think of you in the category of fools that I see far too often asserting the inherent superiority or inferiority of New Console X, Y or Z, simply because you tend to write posts grounded in reason. 'cept for, perhaps, that launch Dreamcast. ;)

[jer7583]

Surprise or not, the fact is the PS3 sales are lagging. Sony can talk about how many they've shipped and are sitting on store shelves until we're yawning, but the majority experience is that interest is very low in the system right now.

Will that change? With 3rd party exclusives being less and less common and Sony's first party software lineup never having been exactly stellar, I'd say no. The 360 is going to take America this generation, Wii will take Japan, and The PS3 will lag behind in both territories.

There's no way the mass market is going to buy a $600 PS3 (or even a $400 one) like they bought $120-200 PS2s last generation so their kids can play spongebob and racing games. Once the 360 drops in price, they will have the mass market.

[MSI Magus]

Surprise or not, the fact is the PS3 sales are lagging. Sony can talk about how many they've shipped and are sitting on store shelves until we're yawning, but the majority experience is that interest is very low in the system right now.

Will that change? With 3rd party exclusives being less and less common and Sony's first party software lineup never having been exactly stellar, I'd say no. The 360 is going to take America this generation, Wii will take Japan, and The PS3 will lag behind in both territories.

There's no way the mass market is going to buy a $600 PS3 (or even a $400 one) like they bought $120-200 PS2s last generation so their kids can play spongebob and racing games. Once the 360 drops in price, they will have the mass market.

First off I dont understand why people are so down on Sonys owned/made games. While they are not Nintendo they are deffintly not bad. Sonys got enough IP that any gamer is going to want a PS3 eventually, maybe not when its $600 but after it drops to $400 or around there and we see J&D, R&C, Parappa, Killzone, God of War, Dark Cloud, Twisted Metal, Amplitude/Frequency, Everquest(my guess is they port EQ2 eventually to help its lagging sales as well as PS3s)and all the others any gamer is going to want one. Sony is not Nintendo, but they have enough IP to sell a system.

Second your wrong on the mass market. Sony is still the brand name leader and every expert in the field of video games expects them to remain on top this gen. There is a chance they can loose it, but right now as iv said before, even if Sony has dropped the ball that ball is still resting in their court.

[DirtRoadSport]

I'd be in for one at $300, not a penny more.

[Setzer]

riiiiight. Thats why they had hours of special launch day programming when the ps3 came out. :roll:

I was being sarcastic.

[elwood731]

First off I dont understand why people are so down on Sonys owned/made games. While they are not Nintendo they are deffintly not bad. Sonys got enough IP that any gamer is going to want a PS3 eventually, maybe not when its $600 but after it drops to $400 or around there and we see J&D, R&C, Parappa, Killzone, God of War, Dark Cloud, Twisted Metal, Amplitude/Frequency, Everquest(my guess is they port EQ2 eventually to help its lagging sales as well as PS3s)and all the others any gamer is going to want one. Sony is not Nintendo, but they have enough IP to sell a system.
True, and don't forget Ico/SOTC. Sony actually beats MS in first/second party titles. But as others have said, I think the $500/600 price tage is what's keeping these things on store shelves. I will very likely buy one when they drop to $400 or less.

[Puffa469]

I was being sarcastic.

Doh! The batteries in my sarcasm detector must be dying. My humblest apologies to you then good sir! :)


I dont get all the AOTS hate tho. Kevin Pererra is funny, and Olivia Munn is hot. Zack Selwyn is funny too. I like all the other regular memebers of the show too, like Will Oneil, and Blair Butler, etc...

[MSI Magus]

Doh! The batteries in my sarcasm detector must be dying. My humblest apologies to you then good sir! :)


I dont get all the AOTS hate tho. Kevin Pererra is funny, and Olivia Munn is hot. Zack Selwyn is funny too. I like all the other regular memebers of the show too, like Will Oneil, and Blair Butler, etc...

It's because a number of people are elitest assholes who are too good to realize their own shit stinks. Honestly there are a few people at this site that really do walk around like their infalable and their shit doesnt stink and the stuff they like is clearly the best. Theres nothing wrong with AotS, it gives game news, it lets game experts debate, jokes arnt half bad. Dont get me wrong it has its stupid moments and segments like pretty much all the stuff relating to picking random people off the internet to win girl/person/video etc of the week. Some of that stuff makes me embarrased to watch the show. But thats a small part of it.

Cock on top is also one of the best phrases ever.

[xdl]

Is it really that surprising at the price points? Because when you think about it, that's what it comes down to. Reverse the roles and you have the exact opposite.

I like the idea of the Wii's control system because of the price. I don't like the PS3 (even though I like the games) because of the price. Once Sony puts a price drop into effect, they'll see the sales they want.


The end.

I wont touch it for $500, and I passed on it now several times and got a 360 for $360 instead. Dont regret it either. Maybe when there is a $100 price drop on both systems I will consider PS3.

[Lorik]

In the mall near me, the Gamestop has a stack of (empty) PS3 boxes outside the door, with a sign made of notebook paper and sharpie that reads "We have PS3 in stock!".

The lined notebook paper with the frilly things still on it made my day.

[HyundaiJVX]

Well, let's see what happens here in a couple weeks, Best Buy is supposed to have a Wii re-re-release on a sunday, or so someone mentioned. I wonder if campers will come?

Also, I think a lot of people are going to spend their tax return on PS3.

My thing is, if there was Metal Gear Solid, Gran Turismo, or something along those lines, then I would want one. But as is, having a Wii, DSlite, and Xbox 360 is more than enough. I just had the 360 for sports games, as I spend over $250 a year on roster updates. Now getting the Wii and playing the DS more and more I am back to wanting to play adventure and RPG games.

[mykevermin]

I dont get all the AOTS hate tho. Kevin Pererra is funny, and Olivia Munn is hot. Zack Selwyn is funny too. I like all the other regular memebers of the show too, like Will Oneil, and Blair Butler, etc...

I think it's the bogus "hip" approach that they bring to the table. I don't like being typecast as that kind of gamer. I watch CNN, C-Span, Bloomberg TV, and listen to NPR (yes, I know, all very droll tv), so I don't care for the marketing angle of G4TV. I think it's phony, I think it's condescending, and it is devoid of genuine content (as evidenced by the amount of time genuinely wasted on each program with faux-witty banter unrelated to the game industry, or anything topical for that matter).

Dear Fucking Christ, it makes me wish for a "Leonard Maltin" kind of character to review games.

[Roufuss]

Why do people even care?

Just enjoy whatever system you have.

[Reality's Fringe]

Why do people even care?

Just enjoy whatever system you have.

It's like people and football. It's just a fucking game, but when the buckeyes lost to the gators a guy down the hall closed his door and started weeping. No joke.

[XboxHardcore.com]

Its all about price... the system isn't bad. The price is. People are NOT used to paying so much for a game system. They'll pay a lot for stuff that they know costs a lot like a nice TV, car, etc.... but a system to most people shouldn't cost that much, therefore they don't buy it.

[MSI Magus]

Why do people even care?

Just enjoy whatever system you have.

Its complicated. In essence all of us try to do that. However, what happans to the industry effects the fun we have with our systems in the future. So even though I want to just sit and do nothing but play games....I find myself caring deeply about what is happaning in the industry.

[mykevermin]

Why do people even care?

I want Nintendo to win out and sell their systems.

I'll take "Because they're idjits that don't quite grasp (1) the ramifications of hoping a company will win as if this is some sort of sporting event, nor (2) the fact that this is all a bit of psychological after-the-fact searching for the justification of their choice of console purchase" for $100, Alex.

It's like people and football. It's just a fucking game, but when the buckeyes lost to the gators a guy down the hall closed his door and started weeping. No joke.

:lol: If it was any other school than OSU, I wouldn't have blinked an eye. But, having OSU to the north of me and the University of Kentucky to the south of me, I find, more often than not, that I delight in their failure.

[Setzer]

It's because a number of people are elitest assholes who are too good to realize their own shit stinks. Honestly there are a few people at this site that really do walk around like their infalable and their shit doesnt stink and the stuff they like is clearly the best. Theres nothing wrong with AotS, it gives game news, it lets game experts debate, jokes arnt half bad. Dont get me wrong it has its stupid moments and segments like pretty much all the stuff relating to picking random people off the internet to win girl/person/video etc of the week. Some of that stuff makes me embarrased to watch the show. But thats a small part of it.

Cock on top is also one of the best phrases ever.

I enjoy watching the show, they generally have some good features that are worth watching(The Loop, In your Pants & Game Break) and I think both Kevin and Olivia are excellent hosts. It's worth the 1 hour viewing alone to see Olivia. :drool:

[millrat1030]

I wonder if games like Motorstorm and Heavenly Sword (if they live up to the hype) will be enough to start moving PS3's? They both release around March, which isn't that far away. I think they timed it good with tax check season. I know it was actually for European launch, but it doesn't hurt that some people have a little extra coin from tax returns.

[jer7583]

First off I dont understand why people are so down on Sonys owned/made games. While they are not Nintendo they are deffintly not bad. Sonys got enough IP that any gamer is going to want a PS3 eventually, maybe not when its $600 but after it drops to $400 or around there and we see J&D, R&C, Parappa, Killzone, God of War, Dark Cloud, Twisted Metal, Amplitude/Frequency, Everquest(my guess is they port EQ2 eventually to help its lagging sales as well as PS3s)and all the others any gamer is going to want one. Sony is not Nintendo, but they have enough IP to sell a system.

Second your wrong on the mass market. Sony is still the brand name leader and every expert in the field of video games expects them to remain on top this gen. There is a chance they can loose it, but right now as iv said before, even if Sony has dropped the ball that ball is still resting in their court.

If you've ever worked retail, you know joe blow average consumer isn't buying a PS2 for killzone, god of war, etc. They're buying Ratchet, GoW, and all those sony games, because they're on PS2, and PS2 is most popular, and PS2 has the most games.

I think it's so stupid to try to argue that just because Sony is the brand name leader, they have to stay that way. The $600 price makes it impossible for them to be the leader. The majority of people are going to go for the medium/low range priced systems, as long as they can get those shitty 3rd party sports, licensed kids movie games, and it's somewhat popular/advertised. That's all it takes.

[Stryffe2004]

I pcike dup a PS3. I am actually excited about more for the Blu-Ray movies that were announced at CES than games that are on the horizon. My 360 will be a primary game machine, but as a blu-ray machine, it is quite the deal.

[MSI Magus]

If you've ever worked retail, you know joe blow average consumer isn't buying a PS2 for killzone, god of war, etc. They're buying Ratchet, GoW, and all those sony games, because they're on PS2, and PS2 is most popular, and PS2 has the most games.

I think it's so stupid to try to argue that just because Sony is the brand name leader, they have to stay that way. The $600 price makes it impossible for them to be the leader. The majority of people are going to go for the medium/low range priced systems, as long as they can get those shitty 3rd party sports, licensed kids movie games, and it's somewhat popular/advertised. That's all it takes.

Yes but while people dont buy games like Ratchet because they are Sony games but because they are on PS2....at the same time they dont realize those games then dont belong to the competition. The average consumer is ignorant and will assume Sony is the market leader and has alot of the big name games like MGS and Final Fantasy even if those franchises went to other systems. You argue that people are ignorant so they wont buy the system for price alone. I argue they are ignorant and also shallow so they WILL buy a PS3 when the price drops. See people will think Sony still has all those names, and they will think that they are the name brand and thus the best. This is just how ignorant consumers are.

Again im sorry but every topic you have come in, even if you have argued on my side you have done so rather ignorantly. You seem to honestly just hate Sonya nd want them to fail and be compltly unable to accept the fact that not only CAN they do well but they probally will. Look around, lots of gamers here think its going to happan, developers expect it to happan, journalists expect it to happan, anaylsts expect it to happan. The only people who dont expect it to happan are people like you.

You are thinking the price means the system has automatically failed when its simply not true. Most people dont buy consoles at launch or even CLOSE to launch. Look right now the PS2 is the best selling system! Most people wait till technology is in its middle stages to purhcase it and a large portion wait untill even later. This means that when most people are buying a PS3 realistically it will probally be that the Xbox 360 costs $300-$350 and the PS3 costs $400-$450. Thats a jump but the jump isnt so large that people will just automatically buy a 360, especially given as I said they will retain memory of the fact that Sony last gen was the system that MGS, Final Fantasy, Ratchet, Grand Theft Auto etc etc were on.

I want Sony to fail and Nintendo to win. This isnt because Im some rabid Nintendo fanboy. Last gen I wanted Nintendo to not do so well and Sony to win. See I want whats best for the industry. While I want Sony to fail I want it because I want them to eat some humble pie and rethink the way they are pushing the industry, while I want Nintendo to win because they are doing something innovative and cheap which I appreciate. I am betting you feel along the same lines(less your just an Xbox fanboy or flat out have always been a NIntendo fanboy). With this said you have to look at the logical side of things and pattern stuff out. Doing that its obvious that even if we want Sony to fail its not going to happan.

Ermm I should add real fast when I say I want Sony to fail it doesnt mean I want them to go the way of the dinosaur. Thats bad for the industry. I just want them to fail in the sense that they are no longer number 1.

[mykevermin]

See I want whats best for the industry.

I'll bet you know exactly what is best for the industry. Why don't you go ahead and tell us, hmm?

While I want Sony to fail I want it because I want them to eat some humble pie and rethink the way they are pushing the industry, while I want Nintendo to win because they are doing something innovative and cheap which I appreciate.

That's some severely shallow thinking right there. Cheap is one element I won't protest, but innovative can also mean "promising." While there is a great deal of promise in the Wii, who's to say it will last in the long run? Because the DS continues to do very well? Apples and oranges, I'm afraid (and I'm sure I'll get a lot of flak for that). What happens when people want to play traditional RPGs, or action titles? They'll buy a 360 or PS3, that's what.

A fool celebrates innovation for its own sake (Power Glove, U Force, the almighty Roll N' Rocker, hell...even the N-Gage was innovative on a multiple number of bad points). A fool also discounts innovation as nothing worth considering or fearing. Sometimes innovation works and becomes mainstream (the move from cartridge to disc format, for example, or rumble technology, to name two examples). In retrospect, how "innovative" are those things? Not very, since they're commonplace now.

I find you tend to get whiny and bitch when someone's arguments don't fall in lockstep with your bullshit notions of what is good for everyone else. Let's not fool ourselves, *I'm* the person you're referring to when you discuss egotistical assholes (and I have no qualms admitting as such - just because I have an ego problem doesn't discount anything I say). You accuse others of name-calling and making illogical arguments, yet your *entire* perspective is based upon
(1) a foolish notion that innovation alone is deserving of success
(2) a foolish notion that one game company "deserves" to be on top based upon your arbitrary criteria
(3) a foolish notion that gamers will be better off with the success of one piece of nontraditional hardware
(4) a foolish notion that what you argue constitutes logic (tautology, perhaps, but not logic), and
(5) the foolish notion that your arguments, if not logical, have some sort of grounding in the reality that we live in.

In short, you remind me of the kind of student who participates in class more than anyone else, foolishly thinking that their participation will disguise the fact that they haven't done the required readings thus far, and, in the end, it is painfully obvious to everyone but that person that they have no idea what they're talking about.

With this said you have to look at the logical side of things and pattern stuff out. Doing that its obvious that even if we want Sony to fail its not going to happan.

Ermm I should add real fast when I say I want Sony to fail it doesnt mean I want them to go the way of the dinosaur. Thats bad for the industry. I just want them to fail in the sense that they are no longer number 1.

I have asked this question and received, at best, 1-2 logical answers to this question: how do gamers, as a collective, stand to benefit from Sony's fall from grace? What good do you forsee from Sony's dethroning?

[botticus]

I have asked this question and received, at best, 1-2 logical answers to this question: how do gamers, as a collective, stand to benefit from Sony's fall from grace? What good do you forsee from Sony's dethroning?More equal competition? Even if they're number 1, being number 1 with 40% market share is much better for all involved (except Sony) than 80% market share.

[MSI Magus]

More equal competition? Even if they're number 1, being number 1 with 40% market share is much better for all involved (except Sony) than 80% market share.

I dont see a problem with an 80% market share(though I think Sony only had 70% last I heard), I wouldnt care if they controled the whole market. But the company has to be doing the right thing. When Nintendo was pushing their weight around and bullying developers, talking smack not only about the competition but developers and gamers who made/make them I wanted them to fall and thankfully they did. Sony has choosen to do as Nintendo before them did though so *rasberry* im hoping they fail.

As I said, I dont see market share as important. I see pushing fun and cost effective games as important. Nintendo in their innovation and keeping prices reasonable has done this. If sony had done the same what should it have mattered if they controlled the market?

[Roufuss]

Its complicated. In essence all of us try to do that. However, what happans to the industry effects the fun we have with our systems in the future. So even though I want to just sit and do nothing but play games....I find myself caring deeply about what is happaning in the industry.

The industry is better than ever. If I love my Wii half as much as my 360 then this generation will be my favorite yet. We have three companies, all trying to do something different, and who wins this generation? We do.

If there was no Microsoft and Sony, Nintendo never would have decided to go a completely different path to make themselves different. Microsoft and Sony play against each other, they constantly are trying to 1up each other, and who reaps the rewards? We do.

Having console loyalties was cool was when I was 12 and had to justify the only system my parents got me, but I don't really have to do that anymore. I'm old enough to see each system has its pros and its cons, and what some chief executive says or does behind the scenes won't make Metal Gear Solid 4 or Metroid Prime 3 any less of a game.

Do I own a PS3? No, and I don't want one right now... but if enough games came out to justify one, would I pick one up? Totally.

I'm in it for the games, nothing more, nothing less.

[mykevermin]

More equal competition? Even if they're number 1, being number 1 with 40% market share is much better for all involved (except Sony) than 80% market share.

I'd say the size of the market is more important than the actual market share. Point taken nonetheless (though you're arguing for Sony's reduced dominance this gen, which is different entirely from hoping they lose out).

[botticus]

As I said, I dont see market share as important. I see pushing fun and cost effective games as important. Nintendo in their innovation and keeping prices reasonable has done this. If sony had done the same what should it have mattered if they controlled the market?For the most part, corporations don't innovate if they don't have to. Nintendo didn't make the Wii because they had an epiphany that it was the wave of the future, they did it because they needed to achieve better success than they did with the GameCube. So the point is, Sony more likely than not would not have done the same thing if they controlled the market.

And I can't speak for anyone else, myke, but for me, the concept of Sony "losing" has always been reduced market share. I don't have any delusions of Sony dropping out of the console race.

[Roufuss]

For the most part, corporations don't innovate if they don't have to. Nintendo didn't make the Wii because they had an epiphany that it was the wave of the future, they did it because they needed to achieve better success than they did with the GameCube. So the point is, Sony more likely than not would not have done the same thing if they controlled the market.

And I can't speak for anyone else, myke, but for me, the concept of Sony "losing" has always been reduced market share. I don't have any delusions of Sony dropping out of the console race.

I would even say Nintendo innovated not only to achieve better success, but to totally make themselves different from the competition. They realized they could NEVER go toe to toe with MS and Sony, so they went in a whole different direction.

Without competition, all we would have gotten out of Nintendo for this gen is a Gamecube with better graphics.

I also wonder if the PSP had anything to do with Nintendo going in a radical new direction with the DS?

[MSI Magus]

The industry is better than ever. If I love my Wii half as much as my 360 then this generation will be my favorite yet. We have three companies, all trying to do something different, and who wins this generation? We do.

If there was no Microsoft and Sony, Nintendo never would have decided to go a completely different path to make themselves different. Microsoft and Sony play against each other, they constantly are trying to 1up each other, and who reaps the rewards? We do.

Having console loyalties was cool was when I was 12 and had to justify the only system my parents got me, but I don't really have to do that anymore. I'm old enough to see each system has its pros and its cons, and what some chief executive says or does behind the scenes won't make Metal Gear Solid 4 or Metroid Prime 3 any less of a game.

Do I own a PS3? No, and I don't want one right now... but if enough games came out to justify one, would I pick one up? Totally.

I'm in it for the games, nothing more, nothing less.

I disagree that this is the best gen. First off we will all eventually have to pony up the price for three systems. Second high prices are running rampant and MS and Sony are both now pushing by far the wrong thing for the industry. Bill Gates recently openly said that he never had intentions of getting into video games nor does he care about them. All along his intentions were to creating a multi media machine to help integrate Windows, the PC and downloadable content into the living room. The Xbox was his means of doing this, they just looked at gaming as a foot in the door. He then went on to rightly say Sony will openly admit to doing the same.

You say your in it for the games and the games alone, yet we now have a generation where it is becoming acceptable for not only prices to be at unnaceptable levels(and block busters epic visuals are being pushed over fun)but also downloadable content and general media over games. I want games, I want good games and I want them at a fair price. Again this is what I feel Nintendo is doing. MS and Sony wish to take gaming in an area...thats not about gaming.

This isnt about me having console loyalites, I never had those as a child. My whole life Iv just wanted games, as many as I could get my hands on. Like iv seen you say in other topics sometimes its disgusting how many I own and have never played. Thier my passion, their my love. And hearing people like MS and Sony say they want this industry to be about downloadable movies and getting movie players and windows I say **** them go Nintendo. Don't get me wrong, ill own a PS3 and a 360(hell I might own a 360 before a Wii if things keep up at this rate), as I said im a gamer and want to get my hands on as many games as possible. But I dont think their taking the industry in the right direction and ill be disgusted to support them. Im just too wuss willed not to ;)


For the most part, corporations don't innovate if they don't have to. Nintendo didn't make the Wii because they had an epiphany that it was the wave of the future, they did it because they needed to achieve better success than they did with the GameCube. So the point is, Sony more likely than not would not have done the same thing if they controlled the market.

And I can't speak for anyone else, myke, but for me, the concept of Sony "losing" has always been reduced market share. I don't have any delusions of Sony dropping out of the console race.


Hmmm I think it was a mix of both. Nintendo didnt have to innovative with the DS and they took a giant risk in doing so, yet they did it anyways. How do you explain that one? And even if it sucked look at the virtual boy. I think Nintendo has always to some extent been a company about innovation and Miyamoto has said at first the Wiimote was actually just intended to be a fun $100 toy and it expanded from there.

Nintendo has prooven(both now that they are not in control and with VB/DS where they did control the market)that innovation can come from people on top or bottom and not always 100% with the motive to make money.

[Dead of Knight]

Hmmm I think it was a mix of both. Nintendo didnt have to innovative with the DS and they took a giant risk in doing so, yet they did it anyways. How do you explain that one?

Are you forgetting the PSP? They had to compete with that. Imagine if they just brought out a new system with better graphics and no innovation. I think the market would be a lot different now.

[MSI Magus]

Are you forgetting the PSP? They had to compete with that. Imagine if they just brought out a new system with better graphics and no innovation. I think the market would be a lot different now.

Possibly but I dont think so. First off I bet the DS had been in the making for a longer period of time then it would have taken simply to do it because of a PSP announcment. Second Nintendo OWNED the market with the Gameboy line, hell they didnt even call the DS the Gameboy DS which to me implies Sony wasnt that large of a thought. Third the PSP much like the PS3(which prooves sony doesnt learn from its mistakes)cost an insane amount of money.

I think that the DS won out for the same reason the Wii is. It was a cost effective fun system that got great word of mouth, and whenever the light came out its sexy design kicked that into overdrive. The PSP if I recall was beating the DS at first but I think people realized shortly after buying it it just wasnt worth it, stores like we are seeing with the PS3 now complained about high return rates and the DS owned.

The DS MAY have been innovation forced by Sony but I dont believe it to be so. And again look at the Virtual boy, that innovation wasnt forced.

[mykevermin]

And I can't speak for anyone else, myke, but for me, the concept of Sony "losing" has always been reduced market share. I don't have any delusions of Sony dropping out of the console race.

No...I didn't mean quite that, but, rather, that there's a difference between wanting them to dominate less this gen, but still "take first overall," and wanting to see another company supercede them.

[BIG5]

I'm not surprised that people aren't willing to spend $600 to play Resistance. Wii has the better exclusive right now, but PS3 has some killer games on the way. Hopefully, the poor launch numbers will lead to price cuts before the games I'm interested in (MGS4, FFXIII) are released.

[jer7583]

Sony IS going to lose marketshare this generation. The 360 and the Wii are in much better positions to steal former PS2 only customers than the PS3 is.

How that shakes out and how Nintendo and MS use that opportunity (granted so graciously to them by Sony) will really determine this generation.

As it stands, you can't argue that the 360 is off to a commanding lead, with the Wii pulling away, and the PS3 playing catch-up. Talk about forthcoming exclusives all you want, but it's much harder to sell a system based on a newer release without the hype and buzz of a console launch.

I am not necessarily a Sony hater. I do hate the decisions they've made with PSP and PS3, two dissapointing products. Forcing formats on gamers, rediculous pricing, and overpromising/underdelivering is not the way to stay on top. I miss how things were when Sony was a competitor to the complacent Nintendo, when they had to work to prove themselves. Now they seem to take their customers for granted and attempt to steer them to their own business purposes.

What I want is I want a Sony that doesn't drown working designs by blocking them from publishing on PS2. A Sony that isn't arrogant. I wish that the new castlevanias were on PSP. They'd probably be some of the most beautiful 2D games ever made. I wish that PSP wasn't just a PSOne/PS2 port machine with crippled controls. I wish that PS3 had games worth playing, and that it was competitively priced with the 360. But none of these are the case.

Besides that, when in recent history has the most powerful system EVER been on top of a console generation?

[Brak]

My local GameCrazy manager told me that they haven't sold a PS3 since four days before Christmas.

(And that was only one.)

They can't keep the Wii or 360 on the shelves.

[MSI Magus]

Sony IS going to lose marketshare this generation. The 360 and the Wii are in much better positions to steal former PS2 only customers than the PS3 is.

How that shakes out and how Nintendo and MS use that opportunity (granted so graciously to them by Sony) will really determine this generation.

As it stands, you can't argue that the 360 is off to a commanding lead, with the Wii pulling away, and the PS3 playing catch-up. Talk about forthcoming exclusives all you want, but it's much harder to sell a system based on a newer release without the hype and buzz of a console launch.

I am not necessarily a Sony hater. I do hate the decisions they've made with PSP and PS3, two dissapointing products. Forcing formats on gamers, rediculous pricing, and overpromising/underdelivering is not the way to stay on top. I miss how things were when Sony was a competitor to the complacent Nintendo, when they had to work to prove themselves. Now they seem to take their customers for granted and attempt to steer them to their own business purposes.

What I want is I want a Sony that doesn't drown working designs by blocking them from publishing on PS2. A Sony that isn't arrogant. I wish that the new castlevanias were on PSP. They'd probably be some of the most beautiful 2D games ever made. I wish that PSP wasn't just a PSOne/PS2 port machine with crippled controls. I wish that PS3 had games worth playing, and that it was competitively priced with the 360. But none of these are the case.

Besides that, when in recent history has the most powerful system EVER been on top of a console generation?

I'm not arguing that Sony isnt going to loose market share...they are going to loose it and loose ALOT of it. As iv said before its automatically a lose for them this generation that they are going to fall from a 70% market share to under 40%.

As for everything else you said, again I think your looking at peices of a puzzle but not the whole puzzle. Things like the most powerfull system usually dont win are true. But again Sony holds the market share right now, is predicted by everyone to hold it, and owns the name brand as well as is currently getting the best third party support. These things could change but they probally wont. As iv said a ton I dont think it isnt possible for MS or Nintendo to pull a win this generation, its just not the most probable outcome. People still want a PS3 and want one bad, just not at its current price point.

[yukine]

I stopped by Target and CC today.

Target had 6 PS3s just sitting there, and 0 Wiis. And Circuit City had 10 PS3s, and 0 Wiis.

(This was at about 4:30 PM.)

[davidjinfla]

Don't worry for Sony It's a marathon not a sprint. The mistake they made is thinking blue ray is going to be the next DVD. If there had been a unified format for nex gen dvd's I think the ps3 would not be as hated as it is now. Now Sony is forcing us to make not just one entertainment choice but two. Ps3 games and Blu ray movies. And a lot of people are skeptical right now that Blu ray will make it, hence the hesitation of purchasing. Plus it's just not that big of leap as DVD was over VHS as of this time. Ps2 was big because unlike the dreamcast which had comprable graphics it didn't play dvd movies. In the end nobody holds domiance in this industry for very long. (other than gameboy). Ussually it's one generation strong, second generation challenged, third generation set back behind competition. Atari (1and done), Nintendo =Nes dominates, SNES challenged by SEGA, N64 loses to Sony, GC loses to xbox and sony. Sony ps1 dominates Sega and Nintendo, Ps2 beats SEGA challenged by XBOX and GC. MS wins tactical advantage by releasing early holds lead for now.

[Demontooth]

I was in Best Buy earlier and this is what I saw.

http://www.cherrybombers.net/ps3.jpg

[Morpheus]

^Next-gen is here. :D

[whoknows]

Wasn't Best Buy hoarding PS3's or something? Because Best Buy is the only place I've seen many PS3's at once. Everywhere else usually has only 1-3 or so.

[jer7583]

Wasn't Best Buy hoarding PS3's or something? Because Best Buy is the only place I've seen many PS3's at once. Everywhere else usually has only 1-3 or so.

I imagine Best Buy is able to order a lot more than GameStop/EB is per store, and probably is able to hold more inventory than most Wal-Marts with the space allowed. There's been no hoarding of PS3s, they just aren't selling at an equal pace with the supply that's being provided.

[MSI Magus]

I imagine Best Buy is able to order a lot more than GameStop/EB is per store, and probably is able to hold more inventory than most Wal-Marts with the space allowed. There's been no hoarding of PS3s, they just aren't selling at an equal pace with the supply that's being provided.


Well it was reported but not confirmed a few weeks ago that Walmart said they would not be ordering any more PS3s till the stock they had sold. So it could be Walmart and Gamestop have small stock because they are ordering on a as need basis where the guys at best buy at first figured we will sell as many PS3s as they can ship us...and never switched from that.

[Vinny]

I finally saw some PS3s in a store. I was at Target yesterday picking up some food when I decided to check the electronics department. I saw 4 PS3 boxes (all 60GB) and decided to take a closer look to see if they were the real deal. They sure were, with a sign saying "Playstation 3, 60GB available!". But I was the only one looking at it... there was a mom with 2 kids looking at the DS games and two college kids looking at the 360 games.

[Puffa469]

Demontooth, that picture is great! Thanks for the new wallpaper. :D

[Demontooth]

It was comical, there wasn't a DS or a Wii in the store. My daughter counted 59 of them, so I guess they had 60 and sold one.

[Fox5]

Sony can still win the next generation!
Drop the PS2's price to $100, bring in a new, even smaller/sexier form factor, and start a whole new games push for them! If nintendo can show that graphics don't really matter with the Wii, Sony can oneup them with the PS2!

For bonus value, rerelease PS2 at $250 with built in blu ray player.

[nativetongue88]

I wouldn't buy a PS3 even if it was $300 right now - there just aren't any games I want on it yet. Give it time to build a decent library, especially some great exclusives.

if it even gets many exclusives now. a lot of the developers are baking out of their deals with sony to have the "exclusives" come out multiplatform because of the lackluster sales.

[Zen Davis]

I would buy a PS3 60GB for $500.

[MSI Magus]

Sony can still win the next generation!
Drop the PS2's price to $100, bring in a new, even smaller/sexier form factor, and start a whole new games push for them! If nintendo can show that graphics don't really matter with the Wii, Sony can oneup them with the PS2!

For bonus value, rerelease PS2 at $250 with built in blu ray player.

Id love it if Sony said meh fuck the PS3 and choose to instead just push the PS2.

[seanr1221]

And I can't speak for anyone else, myke, but for me, the concept of Sony "losing" has always been reduced market share. I don't have any delusions of Sony dropping out of the console race.

I agree with you Botticus. I've said many times I'd like all 3 companies to level out. This will keep Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft wanting to win over gamers, and when that happens, we all win.

[nintendokid]

Id love it if Sony said meh fuck the PS3 and choose to instead just push the PS2.

Yeah. And we all wish Toyota will bring back the Supra Mark IV.

[Demontooth]

We went back into the same Best Buy last night, it looks like they sold 3 in the 24 hour period.

http://www.cherrybombers.net/ps32.jpg

[RedvsBlue]

:rofl: Seriously though, someone at that Best Buy is definetly trying to be a smartass. They never put that much stock of anything (especially video games) out on the floor.

[cdeener]

We went back into the same Best Buy last night, it looks like they sold 3 in the 24 hour period.

http://www.cherrybombers.net/ps32.jpg

Thank you my friend for posting this pic because the more of them that sit on shelves Sony is going to have to drop the price more sooner than later and even though I don't really want one my girl loves Sony so it will be cheaper for me to pick her up a PS3 hopefully by the end of the year.

[Midnite]

Thank you my friend for posting this pic because the more of them that sit on shelves Sony is going to have to drop the price more sooner than later and even though I don't really want one my girl loves Sony so it will be cheaper for me to pick her up a PS3 hopefully by the end of the year.

Dropping the price now would show weakness. The smart thing to do would be a price drop on the first big exclusive title, be it DMC4, MGS4, or FFXIII. If those don't end up in some form on the 360.

[mtxbass1]

Damn that's a lot of PS3's...or boxes of PS3's.

[Judhudson]

Well, I went to Walmart today, and much like everyone, they have them in stock. Didn't actually see any sitting out, but they had flyers saying "Yes, PS3's are available, please check with Cashier in Electronics Dept."

Not a single Wii or DS though....nor any Wii accessories yet.

[Backlash]

Sony can still win the next generation!
Drop the PS2's price to $100, bring in a new, even smaller/sexier form factor, and start a whole new games push for them! If nintendo can show that graphics don't really matter with the Wii, Sony can oneup them with the PS2!


Hasn't the PS2 outsold everything except the DS for the last several months (if not all of last year)? It seems like it's always way up on the lists each month, though I haven't been paying too much attention, in truth.

[Kendro]

Ya know, I used to think the PlayStation name was so powerful that the PS3 would sell out even at $600. But man, this is only 2 months into its launch and they are sitting like that? Troubling to say the least.

[MSI Magus]

Hasn't the PS2 outsold everything except the DS for the last several months (if not all of last year)? It seems like it's always way up on the lists each month, though I haven't been paying too much attention, in truth.

The PS2 has outsold everything period im pretty sure. however to be fair both the Wii and DS have been selling out of all stock shipped to stores....so who knows the numbers they could do if Nintendo ever actually shipped proper numbers.

[thagoat]

:lol: So they went out and confirmed internet anecdotes with their own anecdotes? Nice.

If they want to report on it as a news outlet, go talk to corporate retail offices and ask about chain-wide product availability.screw corporate. all they do is blow smoke up your butt (especially sony). we all know whats going on here, and it sucks for sony.

[millrat1030]

Unfortunealty for sony the biggest competition for the PS3 is the PS2. I know M$ likes to say they see the Wii (or PS3 depending on the speech) as their biggest competition. But I think the PS2 is everyones foe right now and will be for a while to come. As long as the prices of the other consoles stay high and developers keep supporting it, how can you beat it?

[Psykodelik]

Yeah. And we all wish Toyota will bring back the Supra Mark IV.

It was going to be released this year but it was supposed to be a "Lexus". Now I hear word there's a new concept that looks similiar to a supra, but I don't remember the name. Rumors for $$$ is 100k.

[YoshiFan1]

That is basically what I heard at TRU today. Someone asked about the Wii they were told they were OOS but they had plenty of PS3's in stock.

[millrat1030]

Is the Wii even being shipped anymore? I talked to a salesman at BB this weekend, and he said they haven't got any shipments since before Christmas. The guy at EB said pretty much the same thing. They both did say they usually don't know what's coming in until they get it, so they couldn't even tell me when they might have one. And yes they both had plenty of 360s and PS3s. Why do they put those big walls of 360s right in front of the store? Almost seems dangerous.

[RedvsBlue]

Is the Wii even being shipped anymore? I talked to a salesman at BB this weekend, and he said they haven't got any shipments since before Christmas. The guy at EB said pretty much the same thing. They both did say they usually don't know what's coming in until they get it, so they couldn't even tell me when they might have one. And yes they both had plenty of 360s and PS3s. Why do they put those big walls of 360s right in front of the store? Almost seems dangerous.


Actually, yeah they've stopped shipment of the Wii. Nintendo plans on making it a collector's item and made it in limited quantities.

[whoknows]

Is the Wii even being shipped anymore? I talked to a salesman at BB this weekend, and he said they haven't got any shipments since before Christmas. The guy at EB said pretty much the same thing. They both did say they usually don't know what's coming in until they get it, so they couldn't even tell me when they might have one. And yes they both had plenty of 360s and PS3s. Why do they put those big walls of 360s right in front of the store? Almost seems dangerous.
Best Buy is hoarding them for the 21st apparently. Don't know about EB though.

[wrxguy05]

here is my perspective as a younger parent:

most parents of the 12-20somethings,most parents in there 40's and up usually arent as tech savvy as the younger crowd , so they look at the ps3 and see a 600 dollar video game machine,where as the competition is at least a few hundred dollars cheaper , also the 360 has a game packed in as does the wii, on a normal parents budget for the holidays or a birthday they will splurge on one major gift,unfortunatley 500 and 600 dollars respectiveley is just crossing the "splurge" point and more into an investment that will take more than one payment on the credit card to afford.Now as a game lover , i see the ps3 as a machine with tons of potential,has blu ray yatta yatta yatta, but to look at the price tag is a killer , not to mention when u find a sales rep in a store that will see these parents faces and say something along the lines of "we have a xbox 360 which looks just as good and is a few hundred cheaper" , i would love to get a ps3 but at that price point its beyond an impulse buy and now an investment,hardcore sony fans have bought or said i'll wait for "better games" aka price point to come down knowing full well good to great games are close to a year away

[mykevermin]

here is my perspective as a younger parent:

most parents of the 12-20somethings,most parents in there 40's and up usually arent as tech savvy as the younger crowd , so they look at the ps3 and see a 600 dollar video game machine,where as the competition is at least a few hundred dollars cheaper , also the 360 has a game packed in as does the wii, on a normal parents budget for the holidays or a birthday they will splurge on one major gift,unfortunatley 500 and 600 dollars respectiveley is just crossing the "splurge" point and more into an investment that will take more than one payment on the credit card to afford.Now as a game lover , i see the ps3 as a machine with tons of potential,has blu ray yatta yatta yatta, but to look at the price tag is a killer , not to mention when u find a sales rep in a store that will see these parents faces and say something along the lines of "we have a xbox 360 which looks just as good and is a few hundred cheaper" , i would love to get a ps3 but at that price point its beyond an impulse buy and now an investment,hardcore sony fans have bought or said i'll wait for "better games" aka price point to come down knowing full well good to great games are close to a year away

I can't argue with that kind of logic from the vantage point of a parent wanting to buy a console for their child(ren).

OTOH, market studies show that people who were the first generation to grow up with games are not giving them up as they age in the same way that adults typically give up buying toys, playing hide and seek, and activities of that nature. I think that the market trends are showing games to be a new form of media more like movies, music and television, and less like toys.

Without question, the price of the PS3 is far more than most parents would pay for something to be used almost exclusively by their children. As an adult, however, looking for a console for themselves, it's a different scenario. It's still quite expensive, but not as unreasonable as if you're looking for something for a child.

[stnkygrngo]

every target and walmart i have been in have the system area of the games stocked with PS3's. One target actually had PS3's in the Wii section. I just bought a 360 (with a free NBA 2K7, awesome system btw) and when I was paying, someone else actually shuffled the systems and put another PS3 out in the case.
If anything i think i helped sony get another system on the shelf. if they were hopeing to launch blu-ray with the PS3, they arent doing that good of a job.

[Detective Thorn]

:rofl: Seriously though, someone at that Best Buy is definetly trying to be a smartass. They never put that much stock of anything (especially video games) out on the floor.

My local Best Buy had 56 PS3s when I was there last week. Nine of them were with the PS3 games and accessories. The other 47 were in a stack in the aisle. It may just be that they don't have room to store all of those in the back.

[jollydwarf]

I was just at a local Best Buy getting Wario Ware and this and that (one of the eighteen that had the PS3 Midnight Launch, by the way), and they had a modest stack of roughly 10-15 60GB PS3s on the floor, a couple paces away from a slightly bigger pile of Premium 360s. I have no reason to lie.

Anyone who wants to continue to embarrass themselves and forfeit all credibility (a la Shane Bettenhausen) and claim that they're selling well is someone I might as well add to my "Ignore List", just on the count of being insane and delusional. This never happened with the PS2, 360, or--obviously still ongoing--the Wii. Probably not even the original Xbox or GC this soon. People just are not that interested. The games so far bite hard. It's going to take a lot for Sony to get back into the race, including multiple price cuts probably on an accelerated schedule. But if (the generalized) you haven't faced the music yet, no reason to think you will now.

[gunm]

Ok, I'll hit the dead horse one more time.

It's too expensive.

There's no games worth investing in the console for right now.

I'm not saying the PS3 is going fail by any means, but this is certainly a way to start.

[furyk]

I was just at a local Best Buy getting Wario Ware and this and that (one of the eighteen that had the PS3 Midnight Launch, by the way), and they had a modest stack of roughly 10-15 60GB PS3s on the floor, a couple paces away from a slightly bigger pile of Premium 360s. I have no reason to lie.

Anyone who wants to continue to embarrass themselves and forfeit all credibility (a la Shane Bettenhausen) and claim that they're selling well is someone I might as well add to my "Ignore List", just on the count of being insane and delusional. This never happened with the PS2, 360, or--obviously still ongoing--the Wii. Probably not even the original Xbox or GC this soon. People just are not that interested. The games so far bite hard. It's going to take a lot for Sony to get back into the race, including multiple price cuts probably on an accelerated schedule. But if (the generalized) you haven't faced the music yet, no reason to think you will now.

It's not even the games sucking as much as you can play the same games (or similar) on a 360 for $200 (yes, it's $200, the mainstream public views a PS3 as $600 even though the $500 package is a perfectly valid system unlike the $300 360) less. Resistance is comperable to Gears of War and let's face it, until VF 5 and Motorstorm, the PS3 doesn't have any quality exclusive experiences (VF 5 is a PS3 exclusive for six months or so guyz).

[jollydwarf]

It's not just perception, or at least that's my perception (or something). It's that the 20GB version is pretty hard to find, so it effectively is a $200 difference right now, whether they like it or not. Also, no PS3 games have "Mad World" in their commercials.

[ninjalunchbox79]

Same situation here in central texas!!! PS3's everywhere , but the wii is out of stock , imagine that!!! I dont see very many 360's now either , the only place ive seen them at is best buy. For new years weekend I was at a buddies house , drinking , playing some games , flirting with the ladies!!!!! But we had all 3 next-gen systems , fired up the ps3 and played for about 15-30mins . . . . yea it was not that great!!! Next we fired up the wii . . . . and lets just say after all the beer was gone , a couple hours later I was a little sober and still playing the wii!!!! Took a break to grub down on something and then passed out from exhaustion!!!!

i like fried chicken . . . . . . . YAY!!!!

[radjago]

Supporting Anecdotal Evidence: A locally owned game shop in town has sold exactly 1 PS3 and 24 Wiis since launch. The ratio of calls asking for each console has been about that as well. They got 3 calls asking for Wiis just when I was there.

[Stoneage]

I just thought of something that is probably irrelevant, but I just noticed that Xbox 360, PS3, and Wii all rhyme in regards to the ending "E" sound. Is that why Nintendo changed it from Revolution to Wii?

Stoneage - Asking yesterday's questions today.

[Demontooth]

It's not just perception, or at least that's my perception (or something). It's that the 20GB version is pretty hard to find, so it effectively is a $200 difference right now, whether they like it or not. Also, no PS3 games have "Mad World" in their commercials.

I haven't seen a 20 GB PS3 in a while.

[FriskyTanuki]

I was just at a local Best Buy getting Wario Ware and this and that (one of the eighteen that had the PS3 Midnight Launch, by the way), and they had a modest stack of roughly 10-15 60GB PS3s on the floor, a couple paces away from a slightly bigger pile of Premium 360s. I have no reason to lie.

Anyone who wants to continue to embarrass themselves and forfeit all credibility (a la Shane Bettenhausen) and claim that they're selling well is someone I might as well add to my "Ignore List", just on the count of being insane and delusional. This never happened with the PS2, 360, or--obviously still ongoing--the Wii. Probably not even the original Xbox or GC this soon. People just are not that interested. The games so far bite hard. It's going to take a lot for Sony to get back into the race, including multiple price cuts probably on an accelerated schedule. But if (the generalized) you haven't faced the music yet, no reason to think you will now.
You ignore the fact that the PS3 is selling better than the PS2 (http://www.vgcharts.org/usaconscomps.php?name1=X360&name2=PS3&type=0) and Xbox 360 (http://www.vgcharts.org/usaconscomps.php?name1=X360&name2=PS3&type=2)two months into their lives. The reason for the extra stock is the increase in shipments and the fact that it's after the holiday season, so demand is going to be lower and it'll sell less than it did last month. Everyone's making too big of a deal about this like it's some new phenomenon that demand goes down after the holiday season.

[botticus]

You ignore the fact that the PS3 is selling better than the PS2 (http://www.vgcharts.org/usaconscomps.php?name1=X360&name2=PS3&type=0) and Xbox 360 (http://www.vgcharts.org/usaconscomps.php?name1=X360&name2=PS3&type=2)two months into their lives. The reason for the extra stock is the increase in shipments and the fact that it's after the holiday season, so demand is going to be lower and it'll sell less than it did last month. Everyone's making too big of a deal about this like it's some new phenomenon that demand goes down after the holiday season.The thing that surprises me is that I agreed with whatever jackass Sony exec it was that said they could sell 5 million PS3s even if there were no games available for the system (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6151631.html). But that is obviously no longer the case.

And to the discussion a few posts previous, unless Sony increases the ratio of 20GB systems from the launch estimates of 20%, the effective price difference between the 360 and PS3 is $200.

[mtxbass1]

Everyone's making too big of a deal about this like it's some new phenomenon that demand goes down after the holiday season.

So why is Wii demand at an all time high then? It's after the holiday season. Why are there so many people who cannot find the system, yet we have multiple threads on people who can find a PS3 without any problems?

[FriskyTanuki]

The thing that surprises me is that I agreed with whatever jackass Sony exec it was that said they could sell 5 million PS3s even if there were no games available for the system (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6151631.html). But that is obviously no longer the case.

And to the discussion a few posts previous, unless Sony increases the ratio of 20GB systems from the launch estimates of 20%, the effective price difference between the 360 and PS3 is $200.
It might have gotten to that point if it was still in short supply. It's just not going to fly off the shelves if there's plenty to go around and people aren't forced to buy them on sight because they might not have another chance to get one.

Wiis are selling out because the supply shipments are far and few between, so people are going out of their way to try to get one. I'm glad I got one at launch because it's not worth the trouble, to me, that some people are going through for one.

[daroga]

You ignore the fact that the PS3 is selling better than the PS2 (http://www.vgcharts.org/usaconscomps.php?name1=X360&name2=PS3&type=0) and Xbox 360 (http://www.vgcharts.org/usaconscomps.php?name1=X360&name2=PS3&type=2)two months into their lives. The reason for the extra stock is the increase in shipments and the fact that it's after the holiday season, so demand is going to be lower and it'll sell less than it did last month. Everyone's making too big of a deal about this like it's some new phenomenon that demand goes down after the holiday season.The issue, I think, that unlike most systems, the franticness was a result of wanting the system to play. It seems like with the PS3 we skipped the cause and went straight to the effect. The glut of systems so early was easily due to the returns of people hoping to be able to trade a PS3 for a Lexus or something come Christmas time. The January sales numbers ought to be interesting, when up against the 360 and Wii numbers.

I just worry that Sony is going to shovelware games onto the system to try to get people to buy it at its higher price, which will only hurt them more as they'll have games on the system, but totally half-assed games.

[jer7583]

So why is Wii demand at an all time high then? It's after the holiday season. Why are there so many people who cannot find the system, yet we have multiple threads on people who can find a PS3 without any problems?

Exactly, the demand for Wii is nearly as high as at launch, maybe higher. The price, lack of good software, and negative press are causing lowered PS3 sales. There's no way to sugarcoat it, no way to hide it, the PS3 just isn't in demand, right now.

Does that mean it's over? nope. It does mean Sony should get its act together, clean up its image as the overpriced, unwanted console, and get some good software out there, and by that I mean more than the bare bones motorstorm and blu ray movies. Nobody is going to buy a PS3 for motorstorm, well maybe a few people will, and then will be dissapointed that it has less content than most last gen racers had, not to mention it feels slow as molasses compared to games like burnout, excite truck, PGR3, and even Gran Turismo.

Wii and 360 have a further opportunity to pull away and develop a stronger userbase lead over Sony before their "good" titles hit. That's what this botched (and yes, it was a dissapointment on nearly every level) launch means.

[evilmax17]

You ignore the fact that the PS3 is selling better than the PS2 (http://www.vgcharts.org/usaconscomps.php?name1=X360&name2=PS3&type=0) and Xbox 360 (http://www.vgcharts.org/usaconscomps.php?name1=X360&name2=PS3&type=2)two months into their lives.
The difference is that two months into their respective lives, the PS2 and 360 were selling out immediately. It took a good 6 months to find 360s readily available on shelves, even longer for PS2s. Had there been a larger supply, they would have sold more.

The PS3 supply seems to be meeting/exceeding the demand, which might explain why it sold more. The 360/PS2 launch windows were pretty similar, the PS3 situation is much different than either.

[jollydwarf]

You ignore the fact that the PS3 is selling better than the PS2 and Xbox 360 two months into their lives. The reason for the extra stock is the increase in shipments and the fact that it's after the holiday season, so demand is going to be lower and it'll sell less than it did last month. Everyone's making too big of a deal about this like it's some new phenomenon that demand goes down after the holiday season.

But it is! The PS2 and 360 were not even close to being easily available online or in-store until at least mid-March of 2001 and 2006, respectively. The Wii probably won't be any different, and could be even a tougher ticket (based on relative affordability and trendiness). No, deluge of systems or not, there's no spinning the PS3 in the second week of January (!!!) just going unloved in retail stores for days on end.

It is mostly the price, I believe, but it's not just an issue of not being able to or wanting to pay the $600 (as we've established the 20GB version is a tough ticket still), but the need to pay it.

And however the cycle of eBay hoarding and people paying top dollar was broken, the bottom line is that that faction hasn't been part of the equation for weeks now. To be fair, if they could still make even $300-$400 on a console (or even half that!), they'd still be buying them to peddle online, and the shortage would continue. But it didn't, and here we are.

[Blackout]

I think this is great Sony is doing bad. Not because I want them out but because it will force them to change and haul ass and make the system and whatever better. I for one am sick of all the Wii talk. Sony needs to be backed into the corner even more, it will be better for gamers. It's crazy. Sony went from destroying with the PS2 to the PS3. They will turn around though.

[tilcfast]

I bought my 360 in March and at that point they were still very hard to find.

in fact they were still keeping them behind the counter!

I will get a PS3 when it's cheaper, but anyone who says the PS3 is selling well is not living in reality.

Stores are practically begging people to buy PS3's

[mykevermin]

All this talk of the PS3 not selling, but the 20GB being a tough find, makes me wonder if there's a more nuanced story than "OMFG TEH PS3 IS TEH FAILUREZZ." It seems, in short, contradictory.

In other words, that the public *is* balking at the $600 tag of the 60GB PS3, but that they are buying what stock is available of the 20GB system. Perhaps the consumers are more savvy than I'd give them credit for, and recognize that the 60GB system is just unneeded bells and whistles, and the 20GB system can do precisely the same damn thing for $100 less. I can't help but think that memory card readers mean fuck-all to the public (I'm a bit reluctant to say that about wifi, but I'd probably say that too).

So, the more nuanced position would be that (1) people are buying the PS3 and showing significant interest in it, but (2) they are only interested in the 20GB version. This might jibe with conventional wisdom, as even demontooth's massive pile o' PS3s shows nary a 20GB system. I've seen a few in stores here and there, and they've always been the 60GB version.

Makes me wonder if Sony should do a 180-degree turnaround in the ratio of 20GB:60GB manufactured (I've read that 80% of the output are 60GB, and 20% the 20GB). Of course, this assumes that people are buying the 20GB and turning their nose up at the 60GB (and ignoring, say, if there would be significant stock of 20GB sitting on store shelves if more were manufactured).

[FriskyTanuki]

The difference is that two months into their respective lives, the PS2 and 360 were selling out immediately. It took a good 6 months to find 360s readily available on shelves, even longer for PS2s. Had there been a larger supply, they would have sold more.

The PS3 supply seems to be meeting/exceeding the demand, which might explain why it sold more. The 360/PS2 launch windows were pretty similar, the PS3 situation is much different than either.
Until about the last week of December after Christmas, it was really hard to find. One difference is that the PS2 and 360 were pretty much the only option when they came out, the PS3 isn't, so the opportunity wasn't really there to begin with. The eBayers did hurt sales somewhat by taking away units that could've sold to people who would have probably kept the system. The fact that it's selling better despite there being other, cheaper options, is an interesting thing to note.

[MSI Magus]

Until about the last week of December after Christmas, it was really hard to find. One difference is that the PS2 and 360 were pretty much the only option when they came out, the PS3 isn't, so the opportunity wasn't really there to begin with. The eBayers did hurt sales somewhat by taking away units that could've sold to people who would have probably kept the system. The fact that it's selling better despite there being other, cheaper options, is an interesting thing to note.

We are almost 3 weeks into the new month. Stores and costumers are both reporting that they have been easy to find since immediatly after Christmas because of returns and lack of intreast. This means for 4 weeks, almost a full month not just a week as your putting it the PS3 has been easy to find.

And no it isnt intreasting to note that its selling despite cheaper options....because its not. Look at ebay records...those PS3s were not selling.

[nintendokid]

The fact that it's selling better despite there being other, cheaper options, is an interesting thing to note.

In a horse race, you will always have that one single dominant horse that everyone bets on because of its stats and win ratio. PS3 is like that prized horse that everyone talks about. But the winnings return isn't that great when betting on the one horse everyone knows will most likely win and it doesn't always cross the finish line first. It just so happens that in our case, this horse is being bet high on but won't be finishing first...maybe not even second. You see cheaper options? I see high winnings returns from betting on the underdogs.

[munch]

Who cares?

[mykevermin]

And no it isnt intreasting to note that its selling despite cheaper options....because its not. Look at ebay records...those PS3s were not selling.

http://search-completed.ebay.com/search/search.dll?GetResult&sacat=-1&ftrt=1&coaction=compare&fsop=1&sadis=200&from=R10&sargn=-1&sofocus=so&copagenum=1&fpos=ZIP%2FPostal&saprclo=&fis=2&maxrecordsreturned=300&sbrftog=1&fgtp=&frpp=50&satitle=20gb+ps3&saprchi=&coentrypage=search&ftrv=1

You mean to say it's not selling on eBay *above MSRP*.

Big difference, chachi.

[rodeojones903]

I think Myke might be on to something. I have had two people come and ask me for 20gig PS3s at work and pass since all that was instock was the 60gig, even though I don't work in the media department. Although one of the two was wanting it just as a blu ray player since I work in home theater.

[Pootie Thang]

I have PS3, Wii, and Xbox 360. I am giving my sister since she wants it so badly and doesn't wanna get one on eBay because they are still selling for around $400. The Xbox 360, I play it a lot because the games. The PS3's games suck right now, it's like the Xbox 360's launch, off to a slow start. I just use it as a Blu-ray player for now and for Resistance Online.

Blu-ray's are amazing, though, in the past 3 weeks I spent like around $450 on BD movies along because they look and sound so great!

[rodeojones903]

.

Blu-ray's are amazing, though, in the past 3 weeks I spent like around $450 on BD movies along because they look and sound so great!

I hear ya. Its hard for me to go back to DVDs now, and don't see myself buying anything but HD movies either on blu ray or HDDVD.

[botticus]

Blu-ray's are amazing, though, in the past 3 weeks I spent like around $450 on BD movies along because they look and sound so great!Pootie Thang, single-handedly recouping Sony's PS3 launch costs. :D

[lordxixor101]

I'm not neccessarily technically savy, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

But, reading this, I'm wondering. If the 20GB systems are selling, but the 60 GB aren't as well, could this be caused by people looking for cheap Blue Ray players, without any interest in the system? Would people wanting a Blue Ray player only want the extra features of the $600 system.

[FriskyTanuki]

We are almost 3 weeks into the new month. Stores and costumers are both reporting that they have been easy to find since immediatly after Christmas because of returns and lack of intreast. This means for 4 weeks, almost a full month not just a week as your putting it the PS3 has been easy to find.

And no it isnt intreasting to note that its selling despite cheaper options....because its not. Look at ebay records...those PS3s were not selling.
Where did I say it's only been easy to find for a week? I said until the last week of December were they hard to find, which was about three weeks ago, not a month.

Where was I talking about PS3's selling well on eBay? I'm refering to retail stores, not eBay. Please read a little more closely next time.

In a horse race, you will always have that one single dominant horse that everyone bets on because of its stats and win ratio. PS3 is like that prized horse that everyone talks about. But the winnings return isn't that great when betting on the one horse everyone knows will most likely win and it doesn't always cross the finish line first. It just so happens that in our case, this horse is being bet high on but won't be finishing first...maybe not even second. You see cheaper options? I see high winnings returns from betting on the underdogs.
I don't follow horse racing and the gambling around it, so I have no idea what you just wrote.

[camoor]

I don't follow horse racing and the gambling around it, so I have no idea what you just wrote.

To put it in simpler terms, I believe that he is saying that the PS3 is like the operation of the Ferranti Bloodhound Inertial Guidance System. To wit:

The PS3 knows where it is at all times. It knows this
because it knows where it isn't. By subtracting where it is from
where it isn't (Or where it isn't from where it is, depending on
which is the greater) it obtains a difference or deviation. The
inertial guidance system use deviations to generate corrective
commands to drive the PS3 from the position where it is to the
position where it isn't. The PS3 arrives at the position
where it wasn't, consequently the position where it was is now the
position where it isn't. In the event that the position where it
is now is not the same as the position where it originally wasn't
the system has acquired a variation, (variations are caused by
external factors and the discussion of these factors is not
considered to be within the scope of this report) the variation
being the difference between where the PS3 is and where the
PS3 wasn't. If the variation is considered to be a
significant factor it too may be corrected by the inertial
guidance system. Moreover, the PS3 must now know where it
was also. The "Thought Process" of the PS3 is as follows:
Because a variation has modified some of the information which the
PS3 had obtained, it is not sure where it is. However, it is
sure where it isn't and it knows where it was. It now subtracts
where it should be from where it wasn't (or vice versa) and by
differentiating this from the algebraic difference between where
it shouldn't be and where it was, it is able to obtain the
difference between it's deviation and it's variation, this
difference being called the Error.

[io]

I'm not neccessarily technically savy, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

But, reading this, I'm wondering. If the 20GB systems are selling, but the 60 GB aren't as well, could this be caused by people looking for cheap Blue Ray players, without any interest in the system? Would people wanting a Blue Ray player only want the extra features of the $600 system.

After rodeojones's post I was thinking the same thing. It's wierd, I've been following this so closely yet I never thought of that issue. Of course someone just looking for a BR player will only want the $500 one - that's a damn cheap BR player.

If the PS3 had an upscaler, I probably would have gotten the 60GB model myself. While I understand it isn't the same difference as the core/premium 360, I still think the 60GB is essential for most gamers. For me, the Wifi and slightly bigger hard drive justify the price difference (the card readers are nice, but I wouldn't put more than a $5 value on those). I mean, say the Wifi is worth about $60, and it is definitely worth $35 or so to me not to have to fuss with the hard drive any time soon (I could see filling 20GB soon but not 60GB).

I think BOTH are a bit expensive as gaming machines only. I'd take advantage of the BR, too, and I might, eventually, get one as such. I'm certainly not interested in it for the launch games or even any that I see on the release schedule for this year. Now with how poorly they appear to be doing I can hold out for a price cut or at least cheap bundle-type thing (and a vain hope they will revise it and add an upscaler chip).