Square Enix playing savior to us all! Get rid of Friend Codes!

[MSI Magus]

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3156879

Square apparently hates the friend codes as much as the rest of us and is trying to convince Nintendo to get rid of them. Hopefully with SE being the giant they are they can actually pull some weight with Nintendo.

[botticus]

I guess that's okay, but... since when does Square really care about online gaming where this would even be a problem for them?

I'm still waiting for 1up to stop being a shitty website so I can actually read the article.

Eh... Do I care if FFXI is on Wii? Um, no. And there's only a 50/50 chance of Chrono Trigger showing up on VC due to copyright issues? That sure makes a lot of sense when it's their own IP.

[Roufuss]

50 / 50 chance for Chrono Trigger?

Bullshit.

I don't even see how that is possible. They own the IP, it is their's, and they were able to port it to the Playstation with no problem. Not quite sure what "Copyright issues" they have.

[javeryh]

Now if only someone could talk them into HD and more powerful specs we'd be all set!

[MSI Magus]

The point isnt about it being Square or the games they make. Its about Nintendo doing away with friend codes something loathed by gamers world wide. Though I personally would love to see a new CT or even a port to the DS(fuck virtual console).

And to awnser why its important to Square, because more and more of their games are online and certain franchises like FF CC are probally staying offline because of the headache of friend codes.

[karkyco]

Could someone fill me in on the problem with friend codes?

[botticus]

Could someone fill me in on the problem with friend codes?The only real difference between friend codes and other systems is that both people have to put in the friend code manually. Whereas I guess people are used to the convenience of being invited by someone, so only one of the people has to actually put the code/name in, the other one has it done automatically when they accept an invite.

That and the DS implementation is game-specific, which is mind-numbingly unnecessary. The Wii is capable of avoiding that pitfall (see Elebits) but it's unknown if that will yet be the case.

[magiic]

Friend codes is nintendo's answer to finding the most cumbersome and inefficient way to game online with people

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friend_code#Friend_codes

[JoeTheZombie]

I don't mind friend codes on a per system basis, but the crappy DS per game friend code has kept me offline on that platform.

[BREVITY]

Friend Codes are dumb.
I am anti friend codes.
Its only made worse if its per game. Blah

[chodax]

i love friends codes, it protects me from child rapists

[David85]

50 / 50 chance for Chrono Trigger?

Bullshit.

I don't even see how that is possible. They own the IP, it is their's, and they were able to port it to the Playstation with no problem. Not quite sure what "Copyright issues" they have.


It's called the "I want Nintendo to give me lots of money" copyright issue. :)

[daroga]

It's called the "I want Nintendo to give me lots of money" copyright issue. :)hehe, could be. ;)

I have to wonder, though, if they signed some iffy contracts with Sony regarding the Chrono IP, and that's what they're having to sort out.

[johnnypark]

I guess that's okay, but... since when does Square really care about online gaming where this would even be a problem for them?

I'm still waiting for 1up to stop being a shitty website so I can actually read the article.

Eh... Do I care if FFXI is on Wii? Um, no. And there's only a 50/50 chance of Chrono Trigger showing up on VC due to copyright issues? That sure makes a lot of sense when it's their own IP.

2 words: Crystal Chronicles.

They're probably almost done with the sequel to the GC FF:CC, which was one of the 1st games they developed for Nintendo after ignoring them for almost 2 console generations. With the installed DS base and online capability, you can bet they want online co-op to be big (if it's anything like the 1st game, multiplayer co-op is going to be the focus!) and friend codes simply don't facilitate that well. Sure, you'll be able to do local wifi, but they probably realize that a lot of DS owners (like myself) are isolated and can't really play multiplayer w/o going online.

[Scrubking]

Nintendo is on fire with the Wii. They better not shoot themselves in the foot by sticking with friend codes.

[Reality's Fringe]

Why is it a problem? I thought you were playing the game via a central server? If the central server "accepts" your code, can't that be circumvented (Ie, you'd add the "code" of the central server, and the server would "add" yours)?

Or maybe I'm crazy.

[anarchyburger]

hey what if SquareEnix and Nintendo get in a huge fight over this and Nintendo loses all support from SquareEnix... what would you guys do if that happened?

ya i doubt it but im just saying... the worst that can happen is that we wont get any online final fantasy games or anything like that... IMO

[Sir_Fragalot]

hey what if SquareEnix and Nintendo get in a huge fight over this and Nintendo loses all support from SquareEnix... what would you guys do if that happened?

ya i doubt it but im just saying... the worst that can happen is that we wont get any online final fantasy games or anything like that... IMOYes but square is not that stupid to drop all support from Nintendo they know they can cash in on the DS and Wii where as the PS3 and 360, they might be less likely too. Although I can see why square is complaining and I hope Nintendo does something about it, I don't mind universal friend codes, but one friend code per game, bleh.

[David85]

hey what if SquareEnix and Nintendo get in a huge fight over this and Nintendo loses all support from SquareEnix... what would you guys do if that happened?

ya i doubt it but im just saying... the worst that can happen is that we wont get any online final fantasy games or anything like that... IMO

I wouldn't care because Square games suck, they are shity overrated RPG games.

But I hate friend codes and the DS Online shows that most companies do.

[furyk]

hey what if SquareEnix and Nintendo get in a huge fight over this and Nintendo loses all support from SquareEnix... what would you guys do if that happened?

ya i doubt it but im just saying... the worst that can happen is that we wont get any online final fantasy games or anything like that... IMO

I don't ever see that happening. Nintendo would have to be Super, no Ultra idiots for that to happen. I'll give you 64 reasons why it'll never, ever EVER happen if you really want to know.

[MSI Magus]

The last fight between Nintendo and Square cost them both insane amounts of money for years. RPGs own Japan and Square owns the RPG bussiness. On the flip side handhelds are a good way for developers to make fast and easy cash...and Nintendo owns the handheld market. Both companies want to do bussiness with eachother and wouldnt ruin this over friend codes.

[lanleague]

If Nintendo does away with Friend codes, what are they going to have, then?

[furyk]

If Nintendo does away with Friend codes, what are they going to have, then?

A centralized buddy list and searchable databases of who's online playing what? Nah, I bet they'll introduce Pal IDs, friend codes with a few less digits.

[chodax]

I don't ever see that happening. Nintendo would have to be Super, no Ultra idiots for that to happen. I'll give you 64 reasons why it'll never, ever EVER happen if you really want to know.

Post 64 reasons.

[6669]

So is it not too late to change/fix it then?

[botticus]

So is it not too late to change/fix it then?I don't know what Nintendo's "rules" are for it, but technically speaking, I'm sure a developer can do whatever they want with the codes. For example, if you added me to your list for Mario Kart 2, there's nothing stopping Nintendo from notifying me the next time I hook up to Wi-Fi that you have added me, and give me the option to add you back.

But as far as using codes to identify yourself, that's probably pretty well set in stone. Which is fine, as I've always said, because it allows me to use "botticus" as my nickname even if a dozen other people also want to use "botticus."

[porieux]

They definitely need to get rid of friend codes. Microsoft actually got this right.

[wjhard63]

I could be wrong, but I was watching On the Spot a few weeks ago and they were testing out the Japanese version of the Pokemon Stadium game for Wii. I thought they found the friend code for the game in the multiplayer/on-line menu (even though they didn't get on-line) and everyone moaned about the fact that Nintendo was using the friend code crap on the Wii.

If things change, I'll be surprised and overjoyed, but I have a feeling I'll be reading the "Battalion Wars Wii Friend Code" and "Super Mario Strikers Charged Friend Code" on this board later this year.

I'm a big Nintendo fan, but I don't understand why they think this is so necessary. There are a ton of pre-teens calling each other n00bs on Halo 2 and being cursed at by my friends who are in their late 20's and they still jump on-line day in and day out, without their parents caring (or at least knowing).

[Kaijufan]

Now we need to get EA to put similar pressure on Nintendo. They can give Nintendo a one two punch.

[David85]

Nintendo would have to be Super, no Ultra idiots for that to happen.

Never underestimate the stupidity of Nintendo.

[Rig]

I can't ever get to the 1up site. Everytime I click a link I get an error, in IE and Firefox. (Been like that for months.) Stupid site.

[daroga]

I could be wrong, but I was watching On the Spot a few weeks ago and they were testing out the Japanese version of the Pokemon Stadium game for Wii. I thought they found the friend code for the game in the multiplayer/on-line menu (even though they didn't get on-line) and everyone moaned about the fact that Nintendo was using the friend code crap on the Wii.

If things change, I'll be surprised and overjoyed, but I have a feeling I'll be reading the "Battalion Wars Wii Friend Code" and "Super Mario Strikers Charged Friend Code" on this board later this year.

I'm a big Nintendo fan, but I don't understand why they think this is so necessary. There are a ton of pre-teens calling each other n00bs on Halo 2 and being cursed at by my friends who are in their late 20's and they still jump on-line day in and day out, without their parents caring (or at least knowing).If I'm not mistaken, that game has friend codes because of the DS connections. Elebits, for example, just uses the system's friend list. While that's a little obnoxious and obtuse to build, it's better than every game.

[Roufuss]

Who the hell cares about all this, the real news here is Square Enix are being dicks about Chrono Trigger.

50 / 50 chance of it hitting the VC? Copyright issues? wtf is going on?

[daroga]

Who the hell cares about all this, the real news here is Square Enix are being dicks about Chrono Trigger.

50 / 50 chance of it hitting the VC? Copyright issues? wtf is going on?The same reason it never saw a GBA release and Nintendo had to publish the GBA Final Fantasy games.

For some unknown reason, SE hates money.

[The Crotch]

Johnnypark: Trim the sig. That thing's a beast.

OT: I haven't really played anything online since Team Fortress Classic (go 56k!), but I really hope Nintendo gets its head out of its ass on this one. I haven't had too many nice things to say about Square-Enix in the last couple of years, but here's hoping they get their way on this one.

[dothog]

Online play is about as relevant to Nintendo's interests (cash flow, y'all) as the VC. Even less relevant, actually, seeing as how the VC will probably bring in $10-20M per quarter, which ain't gravy but still covers NOE execs' latte tab.

If you're Nintendo, things like online play and the VC are something you mention pre-launch to inflate your new console's laundry list of features, and then post-launch you maintain them superficially to keep the feature on the laundry list. If you're Sony or MS you promise different superficial features (e.g. BC) vehemently demanded by a wafer-thin minority of your installed customer base.

Friend codes and Nintendo's online experience will be just useful enough to enable Animal Crossing for the Wii. Otherwise, if you want any other kind of tolerable online experience, pony up for a PC or 360.

[Sir_Fragalot]

Online play is about as relevant to Nintendo's interests (cash flow, y'all) as the VC. Even less relevant, actually, seeing as how the VC will probably bring in $10-20M per quarter, which ain't gravy but still covers NOE execs' latte tab.

If you're Nintendo, things like online play and the VC are something you mention pre-launch to inflate your new console's laundry list of features, and then post-launch you maintain them superficially to keep the feature on the laundry list. If you're Sony or MS you promise different superficial features (e.g. BC) vehemently demanded by a wafer-thin minority of your installed customer base.

Friend codes and Nintendo's online experience will be just useful enough to enable Animal Crossing for the Wii. Otherwise, if you want any other kind of tolerable online experience, pony up for a PC or 360.I agree with every part except I think the VC has more potential than you think, since independent game dev's are making games for it and maybe someone will actually buy those games, and I am sure once some more rock solid titles hit people will bite. They already sold what 4 million games and that is with only 2 zelda games, mario kart, and super mario bros and the Wii's are still flying off shelves so I could see alot more than a 20 million profit per quarter, but yeah that is their latte tab, lol fuckers.

[dothog]

http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=95568

Posted this in the VC thread, but thought I'd bring it here too. It's more info re: SE's saviour status and the future of Chrono Trigger on the VC.

[pete5883]

The last fight between Nintendo and Square cost them both insane amounts of money for years. RPGs own Japan and Square owns the RPG bussiness. On the flip side handhelds are a good way for developers to make fast and easy cash...and Nintendo owns the handheld market. Both companies want to do bussiness with eachother and wouldnt ruin this over friend codes.
How exactly did it cause Square to lose money? The PS1 Square games sold, what, 10+ million copies?

[MSI Magus]

How exactly did it cause Square to lose money? The PS1 Square games sold, what, 10+ million copies?

Because Nintendo wouldnt let them make GB games. During the fight Square was limited to the PSX/PS2 which was profitable....but they missed out on ALOT of money by not making gameboy games, especially on ports.

[ArthurDigbySellers]

If I'm not mistaken, that game has friend codes because of the DS connections. Elebits, for example, just uses the system's friend list. While that's a little obnoxious and obtuse to build, it's better than every game.

Right, at least we hope that is why Pokemon BR is using that system. It does make sense since you can import your monsters from the DS version and you can even use the DS as your controller(!)

If Elebits is any indication, the console-specific code should be enough to satisfy online play between Wii owners.

Someone asked if Wii/DS games are played on a central server. I'm pretty sure that is not the case. All the WFC service offers is matchmaking. They link up players and then from there it is just a peer-to-peer connection. This is exactly the way that Xbox Live works.

[Blind the Thief]

Every time I've tried to explain the supposed problem with Friend Codes to my non-gaming friends, they don't seem to see what the big deal is. They say that it's no different from exchanging a phone number with someone, and that it'd only really be annoying if ou had to punch it in every time you wanted to connect to them (which you don't).

Personally, I have to agree. Yes, the way Xbox Live handles it is better, and I certainy prefer it, but do Friend codes deserve as much hatred as they get? Not at all, it's just internet 'tards (present company excluded) bitching because that's what internet 'tards do.

[joshofstl]

I can understand making people swap System Codes. It's a pain, but you do it once and then you have a mass of friends you can play online with.

But Nintendo is talking about using Friend Codes IN ADDITION TO System Codes. (IGN reported this in regard to Pokemon Battle Revolution.) That is absurd; surely your System Code folks are "safe" enough to play online with.

And since we're talking Squeenix, too... I'm not letting them off the hook on this Chrono Trigger business. Not bringing CT to the GBA was a travesty. Squeenix claimed that CT's menus didn't fit but, shoot, you just rework the blasted menus. If they can bring a hundred different Final Fantasies, they can bring Chrono Trigger.

Squeenix has always been wierd about Chrono Trigger, though. They put the franchise on ice years ago and have quashed any attempt to revive it. Worse yet, when fans have attempted to revive it (i.e. the marvelous Chrono Resurrection), they have brought out the suits.

[trq]

Online play is about as relevant to Nintendo's interests (cash flow, y'all) as the VC. Even less relevant, actually, seeing as how the VC will probably bring in $10-20M per quarter, which ain't gravy but still covers NOE execs' latte tab.

If you're Nintendo, things like online play and the VC are something you mention pre-launch to inflate your new console's laundry list of features, and then post-launch you maintain them superficially to keep the feature on the laundry list. If you're Sony or MS you promise different superficial features (e.g. BC) vehemently demanded by a wafer-thin minority of your installed customer base.

Friend codes and Nintendo's online experience will be just useful enough to enable Animal Crossing for the Wii. Otherwise, if you want any other kind of tolerable online experience, pony up for a PC or 360.

I don't disagree that the 360 will probably be the console of choice for online play this gen, but let's remember that Live took a full year to get off the ground. Will Nintendo's service be that robust in 9 months? Probably not. But at this point in the game, MS didn't even have Live up and running, so let's keep a little perspective here. Further, while MS done good with making sure everything has a demo available, that the VC has caught up with (and will soon surpass) the number of games in XBLA doesn't exactly sound like "superficially maintaining" to me ... unless you mean to suggest that MS is doing LESS than superficially maintaining.

Anyway, there ain't nothing wrong with Friend Codes ... on a per-console basis. But per game is just wrong, wrong, wrong, so I'll reserve judgement until I see which way the wind blows. Now if we can just get Square-Enix to complain about, oh, say, that awful speaker on the Wii-mote, we'll really be in business.

[Spades22]

Don't really get why people compare ps3 and nintendo to microsoft in terms of how fast they get stuff done and how good it is... Nintendo and sony had just as much time to work on their game library and online, Microsoft was just faster overall. Anyway I hope they get rid of these friend codes... that would make Nintendo online really appealing and make a game like Smash bros which I always wanted online hopefully reallly good!

[botticus]

Don't really get why people compare ps3 and nintendo to microsoft in terms of how fast they get stuff done and how good it is... Nintendo and sony had just as much time to work on their game library and online, Microsoft was just faster overall. Anyway I hope they get rid of these friend codes... that would make Nintendo online really appealing and make a game like Smash bros which I always wanted online hopefully reallly good!Unless you're saying that Sony and Nintendo were doing absolutely nothing while the PS2 and GameCube were out, and they should have spent that time working on their online functionality for a console that wasn't out yet... it's comparable.

[-Never4ever-]

I believe Akira Toriyama splitting from Squeenix might have something to do with these "issues" as far as CT on VC is concerned.

As for friend codes... one single code should be more than enough to protect a child from crazy pedophiles / retarded myspace whores / racist bigots. A code for each game is just redundant.

[Spades22]

They were doing something...they were just slower than Microsoft at it...they had equal amounts of time do all that stuff, so it IS comparable in the sense of time and that Nintendo and sony were caught off guard cause they were slowpokes xD

[trq]

They were doing something...they were just slower than Microsoft at it...they had equal amounts of time do all that stuff, so it IS comparable in the sense of time and that Nintendo and sony were caught off guard cause they were slowpokes xD

I think you're missing the difference between "not doing something" and "doing something slowly." One could make the argument that Nintendo was doing one and Sony was doing the other, but that's not really the point, which is that it takes time to roll out a fully fledged online service. It took Microsoft a year. By your logic ("They should have been working on this all along") Live should have been ready to go on launch day. I mean, they ARE Microsoft after all. Why wasn't it? Clearly it doesn't work like that. There'll be no excuse not to have all these features ready right out of the gate with the Wii-Twoo or PS4, but for now, the situations are perfectly comparable.

[dothog]

I don't disagree that the 360 will probably be the console of choice for online play this gen, but let's remember that Live took a full year to get off the ground. Will Nintendo's service be that robust in 9 months? Probably not. But at this point in the game, MS didn't even have Live up and running, so let's keep a little perspective here. Further, while MS done good with making sure everything has a demo available, that the VC has caught up with (and will soon surpass) the number of games in XBLA doesn't exactly sound like "superficially maintaining" to me ... unless you mean to suggest that MS is doing LESS than superficially maintaining.

Anyway, there ain't nothing wrong with Friend Codes ... on a per-console basis. But per game is just wrong, wrong, wrong, so I'll reserve judgement until I see which way the wind blows. Now if we can just get Square-Enix to complain about, oh, say, that awful speaker on the Wii-mote, we'll really be in business.
I'm not contesting that Nintendo will have a service up and operational, and the comparison to MS was simply to say that some issues are not priorities across the board (as some people suggest). MS has established the 360, in part, by making it clear that online gaming is a priority for them. Nintendo clearly does not view online gaming as central to the success of the Wii.

I'm just saying that based on past attitudes toward online gaming and the supposed demographic buying Wiis, it's most likely not in Nintendo's interests to pursue online gaming to the extent that a very select group of consumers would prefer. I agree that for Nintendo's general Wii owner, the Friend Code does everything that is needed (especially so provided it is a per-console code).

But if the Friend Codes continue to be per-game, will Nintendo really suffer any appreciable backlash from that business decision? If Nintendo can "get by" leaving Friend Codes remotely similar to the way they are for the DS, they just may do so in order to focus their energies elsewhere. I know that they certainly could spend more time moving developers from the "excited about making games for the Wii" step to the "producing games for the Wii" step. While improved Friend Codes would make some existing Wii owners happy, a larger games library for the Wii would move consoles.

[trq]

I'm not contesting that Nintendo will have a service up and operational, and the comparison to MS was simply to say that some issues are not priorities across the board (as some people suggest). MS has established the 360, in part, by making it clear that online gaming is a priority for them. Nintendo clearly does not view online gaming as central to the success of the Wii.

I'm just saying that based on past attitudes toward online gaming and the supposed demographic buying Wiis, it's most likely not in Nintendo's interests to pursue online gaming to the extent that a very select group of consumers would prefer. I agree that for Nintendo's general Wii owner, the Friend Code does everything that is needed (especially so provided it is a per-console code).

But if the Friend Codes continue to be per-game, will Nintendo really suffer any appreciable backlash from that business decision? If Nintendo can "get by" leaving Friend Codes remotely similar to the way they are for the DS, they just may do so in order to focus their energies elsewhere. I know that they certainly could spend more time moving developers from the "excited about making games for the Wii" step to the "producing games for the Wii" step. While improved Friend Codes would make some existing Wii owners happy, a larger games library for the Wii would move consoles.

Fair enough. I'd say that's probably true (or probably will be, anyway) in regard to online gaming specifically. I can see that you might suggest the VC/XBLA isn't much of a priority for anyone, but I still think the VC is taken a bit more seriously than you're giving it credit for: beyond "something you mention pre-launch to inflate your new console's laundry list of features, and then post-launch you maintain them superficially to keep the feature on the laundry list" at least.