CAGcast #66: Gettin' Pizaid

[CheapyD]

CheapyD reveals yet another ridiculous toy purchase and Wombat asks, "Is more of the same always a bad thing?" In addition, we ride the Hype Wagon, cover the latest industry and game shopping news, answer your questions from the CAGbag (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71382), reveal a new contest, and much more!

Sponsored by Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Stories (http://www.rockstargames.com/vicecitystories/) for the PS2.
Click here for details on our latest contest! (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130291)

Download (http://media.libsyn.com/media/cheapyd/cagcast66.mp3) - 89 minutes, 41MB
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Past CAGcasts (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/../archives/cat_cagcast.php)

http://media.libsyn.com/media/cheapyd/cagcast66.mp3


Show Linkage/Notes:


Intro music: Bad Dudes (NES/Arcade)

Contest winners:
subsidon (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/member.php?u=46855) (crackdown) Aberforth (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/member.php?u=30525) (ds mp3 player)
GenDV138 (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/member.php?u=1548) (Socom 2 PSP) Andy787 (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/member.php?u=228) (warriors psp)

Eye In The Sky (http://www.singshot.com/playPerformance.html?performanceId=228746&play=Y) as sung by Wombat
Jessie's Girl (http://www.singshot.com/playPerformance.html?performanceId=225545&play=Y) as sung by CheapyD

CAG Foreplay: New Releases 3/6/07 (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130205)

Okami creator 'disappointed' by Twilight Princess (http://feeds.joystiq.com/%7Er/weblogsinc/joystiq/%7E3/99759750/)

RUMOR: Phil Harrison's GDC Keynote speech in full detail (http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2007/03/05/rumor-phil-harrisons-gdc-keynote-speech-in-full-detail/)

CAGHL (http://online.2ksports.com/league/?p=360&l=65642)
Rumour: Dead Rising Co-op? (http://kotaku.com/gaming/dead-rising/rumour-dead-rising-coop-241412.php)
Xbox 360 100 Percent Failure Rate (http://kotaku.com/gaming/xbox-360/xbox-360-100-percent-failure-rate-241794.php)
Mizuguchi's Every Extend Extra Extreme announced for XBLA (http://feeds.joystiq.com/%7Er/weblogsinc/joystiq/%7E3/99750858/)
Ubisoft confirms TMNT XBLA (http://feeds.joystiq.com/%7Er/weblogsinc/joystiq/%7E3/99734400/)
Microsoft embiggens memory unit, XBLA game size (http://feeds.joystiq.com/%7Er/weblogsinc/joystiq/%7E3/99498526/)
Xbox Live Hits 6 Million (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=23295)

Best Buy's Secret In-store Website (http://www.courant.com/news/local/hc-watchdog0302,0,5198012.column?coll=hc-utility-localhttp://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2007/2/25/7213) – CAGs Take advantage (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120082)
50% off Select Blu-ray Movies at Amazon (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/../archives/50-off-select-bluray-movies-at-amazon.php)
Famitsu: 1 Year Subscription (52 issues) $390 shipped at Amazon (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/../archives/famitsu-1-year-subscription-52-issues-390-shipped-at-amazon.php)

Sony Blackballs Kotaku (http://kotaku.com/gaming/top/sony-blackballs-kotaku-240860.php)

CAGbag (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71382)

Digg the CAGcast (http://www.digg.com/podcasts/CAGcast)
MySpace (http://www.myspace.com/cagcast)
CheapyD's Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/cheapyd) (Subscribe (http://www.youtube.com/subscription_center?add_user=CheapyD))

Outro: Dragon's Lair Intro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArUCwu6Bk98)
(Yeah, I know its not really a commercial, but I like it!)




Bonus Video!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlJju3FgFkM
(http://www.talkvideogames.com/showthread.php?t=36754)

[figcoinc]

Wombat is getting paid!! Wombat is getting paid!! It finally happened!! You should masterbate to celebrate!!!!!!

[Temporaryscars]

It's pretty funny that you mention Rainbow Six as "never changing." Remember how the first Rainbow Six games were? They were similar to the Ghost Recon games where they were closer to tactical shooters.

Also, congrats on finally getting some green to back your show. Though, I will say i'm a little worried that the CAGCast will get too big for its britches. It's like a nice little town that you love to visit all of the sudden being overrun by Walmart and Starbucks. Don't change too much CAGCast, we love you just the way you are!

[MrDemonicAngel]

just hope u stay as the same or better cagcast

[estat]

I wanted to comment on Wombat's "more of the same is good in sequels" argument.

This is an interesting idea, but I think that franchises must be examined, for the most part, on a case by case basis.

If I had to generalize the idea, it seems like what matters most is the frequency of the sequels, how much the gameplay changes between each game, and the genre of the franchise.

Take the Zelda franchise, for instance, which has had roughly the same gameplay since Ocarina of Time. However, both of you have mentioned your disappointment in Twilight Princess.

In my opinion, it's fine for a sequel to be more or less an expansion of the ideas and gameplay in the previous title. However, I think that after two or three games (maybe this is why the idea of a trilogy is popular?), the series should be turned on its side and re-envisioned, like RE4. I think that most of the disappointment in Twilight Princess stems from the fact that the series has remained relatively unchanged for two generations, and with the advent of this generation, fans were expecting something truly revolutionary. Instead, most of the changes were underwhelming such as the wolf and horse-riding combat. The game is still better than its predecessors, but it wasn't quite what many fans were hoping for, especially considering how much gaming has changed since OoT.

Of course, some franchises have a more natural line of progression, such as Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy, Metroid, Elder Scrolls, Mario, etc. Each game feels fresh without radically changing the series. However, with these franchises, the sequels are spread out over a much larger time frame when compared to more modern franchises.

[Tybee]

Poor fellas...Gettin' pizaid...Not gettin' lizaid.

[gorgo]

Cheapy/Wombat, I agree with the strange lack of non-white characters in games. In addition, the lack of ability to play as a female character is often off-putting to female gamers.

I am a white male, but my wife will often not play a game if that's the only choice she gets. Playing as a black male is Ok with here, though : ) GTA San Andreas is her favorite game.

Wombat's comment on the Red Guard race in Oblivion is dead-on. That amazed me when I was playing it.

[trip1eX]

Nice singing. Don't quit your dayjobs.

[Ciego]

I listened to the podcast at work so my attention was not undivided but I cannot recall you mentioning God of War 2 (releases next Tuesday 3/13) on the hypewagon. I have been anticipating this one since the moment I finished the first one. Are you guys not looking forward to this one?

I am also pretty excited about Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion for the PS3 (release in 2 weeks 3/20). This will be my first purchase since launch and the only game that I have been looking forward to for the PS3 so far. I know you guys played it on the 360 but I have yet to experience this game and am very excited after hearing you rave about it.

I just figured you would be talking about those two this week.


Ubuntu Linux in 1080p on my Sony HDTV via the PLAYSTATION 3. See the HOWTO. (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=343113)
VISIT PSUbuntu.com (http://psubuntu.com) and Check out the Forums (http://psubuntu.com/forum/index.php)

[Gregory_Tea]

bout to listen to ep 66, cant wait,

im currently listening to the AGI show from 3-5-07, and Scot is giving Cheapy serious props.

do all the podcasters out there interact with each other, or was that a fluke

[url=http://nexgenwars.com/][img]

[Gregory_Tea]

http://nexgenwars.com/images/ps3_forum2.jpg (http://nexgenwars.com/)

[wakasm]

Yes. Crackdown is unfinished. Period.

Half of the extra menu's aren't even opened up yet. :bomb:

[liquidcross]

Funny you guys should mention the Best Buy debacle; I'm actually from CT, and The Hartford Courant is our local paper. Attorney General Richard Blumenthal's got a reputation around here for not taking any crap from anyone, so it was nice to see that he's been taking Best Buy to task. Even better is the fact that the story's getting a lot of national press!

Keep up the great work, guys!

[ArthurDigbySellers]

I listened to the podcast at work so my attention was not undivided but I cannot recall you mentioning God of War 2 (releases next Tuesday 3/13) on the hypewagon. I have been anticipating this one since the moment I finished the first one. Are you guys not looking forward to this one?

If they removed the balance beam, spinning blades, spinning blade columns, spinning blade log rolling, and buzzsaw blade "puzzles," in GoW 2 then I will be happy to pick it up - when it goes Greatest Hits and sells for $20.

The game will be great, but it is the sort of game that Wombat was talking about. It won't feature much in the way of changes (Icarus Wings will probably be the biggest change), but as long as it is as good as the first, it will be a good game.

[trip1eX]

@Wombat.
You were talking about retaining customers.

I think we agree that many people drop the videogame habit as they age.

If that's happening then pumping out the same games must not be retaining customers. Hence you must offer up new experiences to retain customers.

Yeah R6 will always have an audience of sorts. You'll always have new people playing the game. YOu'll always have some diehard fans that stick with the series for years.

But if you want to retain folks into their 30s, 40s and beyond then you need to do something different and do something that can fit into their schedule.

IT doesn't mean you have to stop making the same old games. But if you're a developer and want to retain customers then you need to release other product as well..... like Ding Chavez in a wheelchair racing thru the eldery ward. :P

[ai.neuromancer]

Hey Guys, another great show, but as I'm a UK resident I just wanted to pick up on the whole Carol Vorderman thing. It's VOR-DER-MAN, not however you pronounced it, which made her sound like a bad guy from Harry Potter.

She's a very well known tv presenter in the UK and has already published half a dozen Sudoku books over here. If anyone was going to get middled-aged, middle-class English people to buy a DS just to play Sudoku, it would probably be her.

On a related note, I worked in a bookstore in the summer this year and she happened to come in. I served her and she seemed perfectly nice, though I noted she didn't seem that interested in her own books.

Keep up the good work.

[Wombat]

Hey Guys, another great show, but as I'm a UK resident I just wanted to pick up on the whole Carol Vorderman thing. It's VOR-DER-MAN, not however you pronounced it, which made her sound like a bad guy from Harry Potter.

She's a very well known tv presenter in the UK and has already published half a dozen Sudoku books over here. If anyone was going to get middled-aged, middle-class English people to buy a DS just to play Sudoku, it would probably be her.

On a related note, I worked in a bookstore in the summer this year and she happened to come in. I served her and she seemed perfectly nice, though I noted she didn't seem that interested in her own books.

Keep up the good work.

You are Carol Vorderman, admit it!

[ai.neuromancer]

You are Carol Vorderman, admit it!

Though i'm sure she spends a lot of time looking for cheap video games, If i really were her I might be more complimentary about my her Sudoku books, available now from all good stores.

Yours, la'Roc Maronverd

[shipwreck]

Hey Guys, another great show, but as I'm a UK resident I just wanted to pick up on the whole Carol Vorderman thing. It's VOR-DER-MAN, not however you pronounced it, which made her sound like a bad guy from Harry Potter.

She's a very well known tv presenter in the UK and has already published half a dozen Sudoku books over here. If anyone was going to get middled-aged, middle-class English people to buy a DS just to play Sudoku, it would probably be her.

On a related note, I worked in a bookstore in the summer this year and she happened to come in. I served her and she seemed perfectly nice, though I noted she didn't seem that interested in her own books.

Keep up the good work.

She was probably too busy trying to think how she was going to break into the American market.

Put out Sudoku game... get on CAGcast... wikipedia hits increase 10 fold... kill Kelly Rippa.

It's starting.

[Hired.Geek]

CheapyD, and the new host Wombat (no longer the bitterest whiney gamer ever). I have to agree with Wombat that in this Next Gen era of gaming damage to buildings and the environment in general needs to be retained. And that Cheapy’s comment of the place looking like a war zone is not something bad, but is something that should be celebrated. Take Crackdown for example, if gangs were really running rampant through a city and you had these super soldiers running around (especially two of them) there probably would be allot of damage done to the city.

Also wanted to comment you both on your singing, I was impressed. Unless you want a verbal beat down from Simon I would suggest neither of you audition for American Idol, but as a former bartender where Karaoke was the entertainment two nights a week I would say that both you were much better performers then 80% of the people I remember.

I am glad to hear that I was not the only one that got a smile on my face when I saw Elevator Action. It is not one of those games you are ever going to sit down and play all afternoon, but I think it is a game you can play for 10 to 15 minutes then let it sit for a month and play again. In short I think you will get your $5.00 worth out of it.

As for the memory unit, I have one and if you are an achievement whore (like me), it is nice to move your profile onto a MU go over to a friends house and play and keep your profile and earn some achievements.

Nice to see Wombat getting his own little section with the Wombat Burrow. I think more of the same is good, but I think charging full price for more of the same is bad. I do not think I can make it any simpler then that... UbiSoft seems to be in first place here, while EA is coming right in at second place. More of the same is good in the fact that if you have a game formula that works and is something that resonates with fans then you should build on that slightly with every new version of the game. But charging full price for a new version of the game that is only slightly improved is kind of a rip off to gamers. On the XBox 1 I bought Rainbow Six, then got excited for Rainbow Six: Black Arrow and was completely disappointed when it was basically some new maps and one new gun. Not worth $40.00 I paid. And I am not even going to start about EA and the Madden series. I think that Oblivion is handling this the right way in that they released a full new game, then released an expansion pack (but would not necessarily have to be downloadable only, it could be a full disk) at a reduced price. I really think that Rainbow Six, GRAW, and Splinter Cell should follow this pricing model. Release a full new version of the game then next year release an expansion pack or even two then starts over. And if Honestly I can not understand how these game companies can keep crying poverty, and that they are not making any money. They get game sales themselves, then they have downloadable content they can now charge for, and on top of that they can sell ad space inside games. There are so many billboards for Dodge and Intel in Crackdown, and Rainbow Six Vegas is crazy.

This whole thing with Kotaku and Sony I think is the problem with company’s not understanding new media. I think a few years back if a report wrote a story that businesses or politicians did not like they could have the CEO of the company call up the newspaper or magazine editor and if they had enough power and influence they could suppress a story. Now days anyone with internet access and a thimble full of brains can setup a blog and start posting news. And these small bloggers can not be threatened with as easily and can not be tracked down as easily. And really how stupid is Sony threatening to black ball Kotaku one of the biggest gaming blog sites on the internet. Not posting the Sony news right now will hurt them about as much as a grain of rice rolling off of Cheapy’s head and slamming into his foot. Where as if Kotaku refused to publish Sony related news for six months, I think could hurt Sony in getting their message and new products to gamers allot more. Similar to how the associated press did not publish any Paris Hilton news for one week, what a great week that was.

Two giant bald guys in Japan, honestly Cheapy if you ever hook up in Japan with this guy you have to have your wife take some video of you guys out in public and post that on UTube. And if someone can Photoshop together a giant Cheapy destroying Tokyo I will make that my wall paper on my computer.

All these crappy ports from other consoles to the Wii is a little disturbing. I really worry that this may actually hurt the console in the long run. While Nintendo and most first party developers always seem to produce fun games, if the majority are just 360 or PS3 games with the Wiimote functions duct taped on I think it could be the one thing that actually kills the Wii.

[Dingleberry]

I love the way Cheapy scolds wombat at 1:21:26.

It's when Wombat says ok while Cheapy started talking....When Wombat replied with "I said OK", it sounded like when a parent scolds their child for mumbling under their breath by saying "What did you just say?!"

[Hired.Geek]

As for the whole Carol Vorderman thing, honestly I would be more interested in the game if brought to us by "a half naked Mrs. Wombat".

[nesfan8222]

Noah's Arcade reference = Wayne's World. I laughed instantly wombat :lol: Congrats on getting paid.

[Tybee]

Regarding the Carol Vorderman controversy...Is it sad that I am infinitely more interested in the upcoming NY Times crossword puzzle game for the DS than I would be if it was just plain "Crossword Puzzles?" Ms. Vorderman means shit to me, but to Sudoku fans, I'm sure she's the Queen's crumpets.

[Leggo]

Wombat, are you kidding me? The guy who played Cole Train WAS a former pro football player turned voice actor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lester_Speight

He's also been Terry Tate: Office Linebacker.

Cole Train was awesome. I don't see how you can think he's playing a stereotypical black man. If anything, he's a stereotypical pro football player. He could have easily been a white guy and had the same lines. So really, the only reason he's stereotypically black is because... he's black?

I just found it interesting how the war in Gears has gotten so bad, they've got celebrities/pro athletes serving in the military.

Also, I'm pretty sure during one of the Gears documentaries they mentioned they actually CHANGED Cole Train's character model to match what Lester brought to the table, like increasing the size of his arms to match the authentic voice.

[Longshot099]

Oh the hypocrisy! I am constantly angered by the poor spelling and grammar of most internet dwellers and then I finally make a post worthy of being mentioned in the cagcast and I forgot to check my own grammar! :-#

In reference to the comments made in the 'Wombat Burrow': I agree, more of the same is definitely OK from a game that has already established itself as great.

GTA3 -> GTA:VC -> GTA: SA is a great example of how a great game/franchise can be established and then tweaked to perfection. BUT GTA4 better be more than 'GTA:SA with more purdy graphics'. That formula is becoming stale (with 5 GTA games and the endless clones) and the series is due for a revolutionary change rather than just more tweaks and a graphical overhaul.

One series that I would just love to see brought back with a complete overhaul: Mega Man. There has to be a way to make a 3D game from this. Fast action 3rd Person Shooter maybe? Metroid thrived in the leap to 3D, Could Mega Man do it too?


Best comment this week from CheapyD: "It's like Sony is retarded."

[futhamucka]

I can't believe cheapy has never played worms! WTF?

[Tybee]

I can't believe cheapy has never played worms! WTF?

I've had worms, but I've never played Worms.

[CheapyD]

I can't believe cheapy has never played worms! WTF? I have now (via XBLA). I lost my worminity.

[franz ferdinand]

Great show this time, good to see Wombat not getting cut off by Cheapy everytime he talks for more than ten seconds.

Congrats on getting some Rockstar $$$ thrown your way. I have faith that you guys won't turn into an IGN or the like who will toss out glowing reviews in exchange for cash, so can see this only as a win for the CAGCast. I breathlessly await the day "Carol Vorderman Sudoku Presents the CAGCast" hits my iPod.

[sloof70]

Call of Duty 3 for Wii was bad? I played that game and had a great time! Best shooter yet on Wii (of course, that's not saying much).

[sying]

Wooooooo!!!!! Takes off undies and throws it at Wombat!!!!!

[Monsta Mack]

Wow. I got mentioned on the CAGcast... sorta. "Oh yeah, I played my CAGHL game... and lost" lost to who? The Mack! Jagr69! you didn't mention my name *cries* haha.

I will continue to listen to your CAGcasts fo sho now.

[Whambamm]

Well Wombat, I guess I'll be the first to agree with you that Second Sight is a great game. I bought both it and Psi-Ops at the same time, and while the psionic powers were better implemented in Psi-Ops, I had a better experience with Second Sight. It's also a bargain bin priced game right now so anyone who hasn't played it ought to.

[wageslave]

I think it's great you guys now have a sponsor. It was the right thing to let us know that you were being sponsored to promote GTA: Vice City Stories but it seemed neither of you were comfortable doing so and Wombat was doing it in a tongue-in-cheek way. It seems from the reviews that this game is fine for somebody who enjoys this type of thing and is a good value for the money. I think it would have been fine if you promoted the game by talking about it's good points and I think people understand you are giving your sponsor their due. In short, if you don't over hype a game that is merely okay and are truthful about what you say it's fine to sell out just a little.

Maybe like:

"GTA Vice City Stories, who happens to be sponsoring the cagcast this week, is coming out and from the reviews it seems like it's a somewhat decent pickup for $20. It got a 7 from IGN and it sounds like if you're really into the GTA series or this type of game you'd be getting your money's worth out of it and supporting CAG at the same time."


Because it's supporting cag, is only $20 and is a free roaming game I'll pick this game up at some point soon myself.

[CheapyD]

Yeah, there were no reviews out at the time, but we will talk about it more duing the the upcoming shows since this is a month long promotion.

[estat]

I have to say, if GRAW 2 was released at $40 (even $50) as opposed to $60, I would probably buy it. I enjoyed GRAW 1 quite a bit, but seeing as how GRAW 2 is mostly more of the same, I'd rather spend my time and money elsewhere.

The same goes for RS:V2 - which will probably be announced and then released later this year.

It's almost insulting that these yearly sequels are coming out at $60 a pop. I'm sure that the development costs of GRAW 2 were at least 1/3 less than GRAW 1, so doesn't that justify a $40 price? It seems like many developers and publishers have taken the video game industry to the next level of avarice (greediness).

It is even worse that you have two different franchises (GRAW and RSV), that are very similar in the first place. No GRAW 2 for me until I can get it for $35 or less.

[gunm]

There sure was a lot of fap talk this episode.

[Milkyman]

is the next potential guest Violentlee?

[trip1eX]

I have to say, if GRAW 2 was released at $40 (even $50) as opposed to $60, I would probably buy it. I enjoyed GRAW 1 quite a bit, but seeing as how GRAW 2 is mostly more of the same, I'd rather spend my time and money elsewhere.

The same goes for RS:V2 - which will probably be announced and then released later this year.

It's almost insulting that these yearly sequels are coming out at $60 a pop. I'm sure that the development costs of GRAW 2 were at least 1/3 less than GRAW 1, so doesn't that justify a $40 price? It seems like many developers and publishers have taken the video game industry to the next level of avarice (greediness).

It is even worse that you have two different franchises (GRAW and RSV), that are very similar in the first place. No GRAW 2 for me until I can get it for $35 or less.

Yeah exactly. Even then I don't know if I would buy it. I need to recharge between 'sequels.' And I just don't want to encourage developers to be like the consumer electronics industry and give us yearly slightly updated games. Make a great game every 2 or 3 years and in between give me some map packs or modes or something.

Ubi is adopting EA's mentality. They are now spamming the Clancy titles. I think the mentality there is that it's better to constantly have new product on the shelf then to make a really great game every 2 or 3 years. In effect what they are trying to do is to crowd out competitors by always filling up the shelf with some so-so new product. I guess though that some people can't enough of some games and they'll buy whatever hits the shelf no matter how similar it is to the previous game.

[encendido5]

Great Crazy Eddie impression Wombat!

Another great podcast. I think what distinguishes you guys from other gaming podcasts is that you include a personal touch. I for one like the fact that you guys don't just talk about games but also add in aspects of your personal lives. It definitely adds to the community aspect of the website.

Congrats on getting pizzaid!

Oh and by the way stick to talking and not singing :D Cheapy, Ring of Fire was way, way better.

[futhamucka]

I have now (via XBLA). I lost my worminity.


...and? Did you like it? Will you do it again? Worms is amazing, we used to play it in my office at lunch across the network. Endless comedy!

[Temporaryscars]

I have now (via XBLA). I lost my worminity.

Same here. It was always one of those "I really want to" but never got around to it type things. Having it show up on XBL was a great opportunity for me to finally get in on some worms action.

[CaseyRyback]

Noah's Arcade (he has two of every game) is from Wayne's World. The guy comes on the show and Wayne makes fun of him behind his back the whole time.

Also don't forget that Carmine is the first guy to get killed and he is black.

[H.Cornerstone]

I just started listening to it, but Wombat and CheapyD stick to your day jobs. ;-)

[TheHiei]

I feel almost weird for saying this but . . .

I've never heard Eye in the Sky before, but now due to Wombat's karaoke, the song is stuck in my head.

And the worst thing is I have his voice associated to it now, so I don't wanna download the real version and taint this classic, lol.

Also, the songs have been the best thing recently. The Ring of Fire clip from the older episode was hilarious, and today's bit where you put it in the CAGcast was awesome too.

[The-Bavis]

Let's all scurry down into the burrow for a minute with The-Bavis as he talks at Wombat.

In general, I agree that many games just need a slight freshening at the release of a sequel and not a complete re-imagining every time. If a game was generally thought to be of good quality by reviewers and customers and the sales were acceptable, then why take the extra risk and spend the extra time to revamp everything or to throw in some new feature?

Now, some franchises have become stale for one reason or another (sequel saturation, copy-cat games have surpassed the original, etc.) and those probably need a bigger refresher. The most important thing I think stale franchises can do is to take time off. Let the nostalgia build. Even if it's just 3-years-ago nostalgia, it will put some warm fuzzies in people's memories all the while the developer is making some brand-spanking new franchise that is as innovative as all get out. Then pump out Stale Franchise 7.0 and all the loyal fans come clamoring back.

What franchises that are losing their luster need to avoid is adding pointless tacked on features to try and win back the sliding market share. If I'm playing the latest Castlevania and Cousin Oliver struts onto the scene, then my loyalty is gone and my trust has to be won back next time.

None of the above applies to Madden because clearly, the market is willing to pay for each year's iteration no matter what, so turn that crank EA! Even when your new features fall on their face, you don't care because everybody bought a copy anyway.

[CheapyD]

I just started listening to it, but Wombat and CheapyD stick to your day jobs. ;-)
This is my day job. ;)

[SteveMcQ]

Best contest idea in the history of contests ever. Great thinking Cheapy!

[felixlighter]

Is more of the same necessarily a bad thing? In my opinion, not at all. In fact, I think it would be a good idea for some developers of well established franchises to spend a little more time polishing some existing features, and a little less time adding new ones. I’m all for innovation, but innovation for the sake of innovating isn’t always a good thing.

I think some developers feel the need to add some number of new features with each new release of their product. So instead of adding a feature to improve the experience, they add a feature just so they can add it to a list of new features on the back of the box. I think Madden is a good example of this. EA knows they need to convince you that you need to buy a new copy every year. So what do they do? They add a couple of features with each release but many of these features are under developed or just useless, but they all end up on the back of the box as “improvements” over the last year’s game.

One game franchise I feel could benefit from some polishing is Grand Theft Auto. GTA 3 blew everyone away with innovation. Most short comings could easily be ignored because it was just such great new experience. The problem I have with the franchise is that with GTA Vice City and San Andreas, the developers added several new features but really haven’t gone back and addressed some of the original issues with the core game. The most glaring issue for me is the on foot combat. It is an important core piece of the game but it remains the weakest piece and just doesn’t feel quite right. I know they’ve touched it up a bit in San Andreas but it still feels clunky.

If you look at some of the most successful franchises today, several are not all that innovative. I would say most great titles are just very well polished versions of an established genre. Games like Halo or God of War, didn’t reinvent the wheel. They polished and perfected established genres and that’s what makes them so great. I believe all franchises need to evolve to survive and remain relevant but evolution doesn’t necessarily mean adding tons of new and different features; evolution can also mean perfecting existing features.

I actually have a lot more to say on this subject but this post is already getting too long to read.

[Maddgief]

I like wombat a lot and if anything I think cheapy doesn't let him monologue enough as he has very good insights.

But this whole bitterness persona is sort of becoming a caricature of who he is and makes him less likable.

Might I suggest targeted bitterness rather than all consuming bitterness?

[Walt Jay]

It looks like Wombat isn't the only one that noticed Ubisoft's love for Mexico! :bomb:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6167149.html?action=convert&om_clk=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;0


Mexican mayor slams GRAW2

Mayor of border town Juárez says new Ubisoft shooter instills poor values and portrays his city as violent.

By Tim Surette, GameSpot
Posted Mar 9, 2007 10:37 am PT

The line between the real world and a digital world based on the real world is becoming more and more blurred as next-gen systems and high-end PCs crank out sophisticated graphics and physics. Storytelling in games is also getting more realistic, and for shooters set during modern times, that can mean some ruffled feathers.

The mayor of Mexican border town Juárez, Héctor Murguía Lardizábal, has condemned Ubisoft's Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2 and is asking Mexican federal authorities to act immediately to get the game out of children's reach, reports the El Paso Times. Lardizábal believes the game paints a negative picture of his city and encourages tension between the United States and Mexico.

Set in Juárez, Mexico, and El Paso, Texas, GRAW2 sees an elite combat unit battling Mexican rebels in the year 2014. Lardizábal sees the game as a criminal act against the intellectual capacity of the people of Juárez, whereas Ubisoft sees the game as a fictional story, according to the paper.
The Tom Clancy games, which include the Rainbow Six and Splinter Cell series, have upset government officials before. 2004's Ghost Recon 2 drew harsh words from the North Korean government, and closer to home, Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas upset Las Vegas mayor Oscar Goodman, who said the game could be "economically harmful" to his city.

Whereas Lardizábal waited until the day of GRAW2's release to voice his protest, Venezuelan legislator Gabriela Ramirez spoke out against Pandemic Studios' upcoming Mercenaries 2: World in Flames way back in May 2006. Ramirez said the game, set in Venezuela with the object of taking on a "power hungry tyrant," was "a justification for an imperial aggression."
Ubisoft was not immediately available for comment.

[ecmazza]

I have to agree w/Wombat about not changing games/core gameplay for each sequel can be good. I mean, take your favorite game of all time...now imagine that exact same game came out (same gameplay, etc) but with all new levels that were just as good or even a little better than before...that would be a sweet game, no?!?

I know sometimes I wish someone would just make new levels for Super Metroid...that game is the bomb (bad pun intended).

[sinewav]

Regarding Wombat's point about sequels I have to agree with earlier posts that more of the same is perfectly fine as long as those titles are priced accordingly. Remember back in the Street Fighter days when Capcom released variant after variant of SF2 on SNES and Genesis (CE, Turbo, Hyper, etc) and charged the SAME price for all of them? Life was rough for a CAG then.

I'd also like to highlight a major disturbing trend that these kind of sequels are showing. A recent Gamespot review of GRAW2 gave it good marks but stated that the single player campaign is less than 5 hours long most likely the result of Ubisoft rushing GRAW2 out the door in less than a year:

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/graw2/review.html?sid=6167103

Making a more of the same is one thing, giving you less content and charging the same for it is another. How many years was GRAW1 in development for GRAW2 to cost the same with less than a year of effort? Is there a more clear cut case of arbitrary $60 pricing?

[io]

Your question about whether ones prefers "Eastern" or "Western" games was interesting. I have to say I definitely fall on the "Eastern" side, though I never really thought about it that way. I guess that's why the Xbox was never appealing to me. And while I'm getting a 360, it is really only for 2 reasons: 1) Lack of 1080i scaler on the PS3, and 2) There are a few Eastern-like games coming out for it (Blue Dragon for one).

I simply don't get all the interest in these Halo/Gears of War/COD/Dead Rising types of games. I may try one of them some day, but they seem such low priority to me (as in there are dozens of other games I'd like to play first). And I guess I'm not interested in most other "Western" fare such as GTA, racing (except Burnout), and most sports games (except I would like to play NCAA Football and College Hoops on the 360, and possibly NBA Street). Then again, I'm not interested in some of the high-profile Japanese stuff either like MGS or any of the Tekken/VF fighting games. And while the whole Xbox Live thing sounds interesting, I can see myself not playing online very much. I would feel that I'd need to practice a ton before going online with a game, and I simply don't have the time to do that.

What I didn't realize was how different my tastes were from the typical American gamer - and I guess Cheapy and Wombat fall into that category from their comments in the last CAGcast. So I need to keep that in mind when I hear Wombat disparage the Wii or you guys knock the apparent lack of titles for it (for me, looking at the 360, I see only 2 or 3 games all 2007 that I'm interested in while there's many more for the Wii). Of course, I'm a bit older. Maybe that's why the blood and guts stuff doesn't appeal to me? I dunno. But it's not like I played that stuff on the PC when I was in my 20's either. I've always been a big RPG fan and I like BOTH the Eastern and Western styles there. But beyond that I think the most potential for fun seems to be in the quirky Japanese stuff like Katamari and Elebits. And of course the standard Nintendo fare (Mario, Zelda, etc). I guess that's why I had a GC and PS2 last gen without ever really planning it that way.

What this also means is that despite having dismissed the PS3 I will probably pick one up eventually (and probably sooner than I realize). But I'm sticking to my decision to get a 360. I just wish they'd announce a revised model soon! So much for the GDC predictions that you guys talked about in the last CAGcast (not a knock on you guys at all - but on the other site that made the high likelihood prediction of a new 360 model being announced at GDC). I'm assuming that is over now and we're past any big breaking news coming out. Oh well... Now to wait on the Australian rumor of a new 360 end of March/beginning of April.

[jollydwarf]

Cheapy, I graciously accept your thinly-veiled invitation to be the next guest. What with all of the glowing accolades my fellow CAGgers bestow upon me on a dai...oh, I'm sorry...what's that? Excuse me, my publicist has cleared things up. So sorry. Apparently I'm not very adept at recognizing utter disdain in print. Says I should expect lots of "quotes" of this post and a record-setting amount of 'eye-rolling' emoticons.

(Is it that guy with 'lobsters...in his pants!'?)

I'm going to be really bold here and predict that the winner of the karaoke contest will be far more "William Hung" than "Taylor Hicks". Why don't we respect the concept over here like they do in Japan? And how will one bad singer being a jackass for kicks stand out over everyone else?

Also, you missed your opportunity to start this week's show off by ominously saying "Execute Podcast 66." Mmm...g'hoy!

EDIT: While I'm only about a third into it, I too am thoroughly enjoying Crackdown and yet support Wombat's assertion that it's not finished. It's the 'fullest' bare-bones experience you'll ever have. Can't wait to see them 'flesh it out' in a sequel, fingers crossed. 8.5.

[will11209]

hey wombat. have you played the arcade game rolling thunder by namco? it was made in the mid 80s around the same time as elevator action and it also had a guy running around with a pistol shooting bad guys. you can even use a machine gun!

it would make a great xbox live arcade game.

[callmesteam]

hells bells... i made it about 22 minutes in then my ears started filling up with blood and i couldnt finish... sheeeeesh...

and i'll give half-props to 'Second Sight'. I bought it, but a year later I've still yet to break the shrinkwrap on it. I dug the demo and was a big fan of 'Psi-Ops' gameplay. You've just about convinced me to finally check it out Wombat.

FANTASTIC SHOW! IT CHANGED MY LIFE!

[pete5883]

Eastern vs. Western I find myself squarely on the side of Eastern. Which is probably why I never needed an Xbox.

[bobthecat23]

great show guys hey cheapy were is my free copy of railfan?

[MaxDense]

You've got to be kidding, griping about Cole Train. He's most people's favorite character in Gears. It's not stereotyping to portray a former football player as a former football player. Anyone familiar with Lester Speight's Terry Tate character had to love the references in Gears.

"The Pain Train's coming..WOO, WOO..WOO, WOO!!!"

http://card.mygamercard.net/MaxDense.png (http://profile.mygamercard.net/MaxDense)

[willardhaven]

Great "Cast", I deserve to be on the CAGCast so I'm entering your lovely contest.

[Wolfgame]

Wombat went straight up and tossed up confusion for his Wombat Burrow segment, I have been listening to this show for a pretty long time and I have come to agree with Wombat on most issues, but then this show comes along and essientially ruins it all. I know Wombat to be someone who is damn tough on games, he values his cash and isn't going to throw it out for a game that isn't of the highest quality.

But now you devote an entire segment that boils down to saying that "More of the same is fine" what the hell happened to the Wombat who demanded new and unique experiences from games, you stood out in my mind because you made it an effort to take the sequels that are crammed down and always said "But what did they improve on" when did you make this sacrifice and accept mediocore titles with the same gameplay and no new features.

[Wheeliedude]

I have only listened to a few episodes so far, and I am impressed with the quality of each. Keep on truckin'!

Personally, games that are more of the same are both the poison and the antidote of the gaming industry. While the games make sales , they are pretty much the same game, but slightly different. However, the consisitent cash flow from a money-making franchise of such games can free up funds to innovate.

Wouldn't it be nice to see another side of the game industry that we never see? Like with the Defender interview, it was a nice surprise to learn about independent game retailers. Aside from this, is there any aspect of the industry that no one ever talks about?