Is it a racial slur to call a black man 'articulate'?

[PKRipp3r]

Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama just can't escape the word articulate.

"He's charismatic, he's articulate, he's a very strong figure on the national stage," White House political adviser Karl Rove told an Arkansas crowd. "But something tells me that people are going to say (they want) experience and depth. As a result it's going to be, 'Can he live up to the standards?"'

Rove spoke at an event arranged by the University of Arkansas Clinton School of Public Service.

Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware, a Democratic presidential hopeful, described Obama to the New York Observer in January as, among presidential candidates, "the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy." Biden later apologized for his remarks.

After Biden's remarks, the Illinois senator cautioned that they could be taken as disparaging towards previous black presidential candidates, including Carol Moseley Braun, Shirley Chisholm, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.

President Bush also referred to Obama as "an attractive guy, he's articulate" during a January interview on Fox News Channel.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/03/09/politics/main2552110.shtml
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Yes or No?

context dependent or always the wrong word to use?

it just seems that I never ever see/hear a white politican refer to someone of any other race as 'articulate'. yet that word is used over and over to describe black individuals, as if an african-american human being 'articulate' is a pleasant surprise. something to pat them on the head and give them a thumbs up for. like.. "nice job black person... way to speak english correctly."

"... he speaks so well. He's so well spoken. He speaks so well. 'Speaks so well' is not a compliment!!! 'Speaks so well' is something you say about retarded people who can talk!"

- Chris Rock

i thought this administration decried the 'soft bigotry of low expectations'?

[Duo_Maxwell]

context dependent or always the wrong word to use?

Definately a bit of both IMO. Biden's comment was certainly retarded and Bush's comment from January could've used some deeper thought (though I dunno if he's capable of this feat). However, most of Obama's exposure to the masses has been through his appearences and speeches, so I don't think it's totally uncalled for to use a word like articulate to describe some of his work in the public eye. Still I don't think "articulate" should be the only thing you mention about a guy when describing him as that is somewhat demaning to not mention any of his other qualities. As for the word only being used to describe black candidates, all one needs do is look at the past decade to see that certainly has a ring of truth to it, so it's certainly not just context alone. But how many times during the 2004 campaigns/debates did people say Kerry was so much more articulate (or some variation of the word) than Bush? Now of course they mentioned it in contrast to Bush, which is the context part of it. If you say something like "his articulate and honest speeches get alot of the democratic base fired up" then I don't see much harm, but if you're asked to describe him and you simply go "uh... he's articulate" then you're probably a bit of an asshole by either totally apathy/lack of knowledge or underlying racism.

Personally, I'd like pundits to stop calling Bush "folksy" or the like when he speaks, that's kind of demeaning to say all folks are as dumb as he is.

[Metal Boss]

Well, being a presidential candidate I would at least hope he was articulate, so indeed, it does seem like an odd thing to say. i simply do not see anything offensive about it though.

[PKRipp3r]

context dependent or always the wrong word to use?

Definately a bit of both IMO. Biden's comment was certainly retarded and Bush's comment from January could've used some deeper thought (though I dunno if he's capable of this feat). However, most of Obama's exposure to the masses has been through his appearences and speeches, so I don't think it's totally uncalled for to use a word like articulate to describe some of his work in the public eye. Still I don't think "articulate" should be the only thing you mention about a guy when describing him as that is somewhat demaning to not mention any of his other qualities. As for the word only being used to describe black candidates, all one needs do is look at the past decade to see that certainly has a ring of truth to it, so it's certainly not just context alone. But how many times during the 2004 campaigns/debates did people say Kerry was so much more articulate (or some variation of the word) than Bush? Now of course they mentioned it in contrast to Bush, which is the context part of it. If you say something like "his articulate and honest speeches get alot of the democratic base fired up" then I don't see much harm, but if you're asked to describe him and you simply go "uh... he's articulate" then you're probably a bit of an asshole by either totally apathy/lack of knowledge or underlying racism.

Personally, I'd like pundits to stop calling Bush "folksy" or the like when he speaks, that's kind of demeaning to say all folks are as dumb as he is.

i agree with pretty much everything you said

esp the bolded part

[nasum]

It isn't a racial slur, but I suppose you could take it to the form of insult as someone said earlier that one would expect a black man to be inarticulate. On the other hand, Sharpton and JJ are VERY inarticulate (as well as Bush and Kerry).

The definition being used depends as well since on one hand to be articulate is to give a clear and concise response while a loose definition of speaking clearly as to be easily heard could be offensive.

In the end it matters not because he doesn't have a prayer at being the next president. He should have waited until 2012 to run and build up a history of service in the senate and such.

[PKRipp3r]

It isn't a racial slur, but I suppose you could take it to the form of insult as someone said earlier that one would expect a black man to be inarticulate. On the other hand, Sharpton and JJ are VERY inarticulate (as well as Bush and Kerry).

The definition being used depends as well since on one hand to be articulate is to give a clear and concise response while a loose definition of speaking clearly as to be easily heard could be offensive.

In the end it matters not because he doesn't have a prayer at being the next president. He should have waited until 2012 to run and build up a history of service in the senate and such.

Jesse defines inarticulate. But Al is a very sharp guy who I don't regard as inarticulate at all. I rarely agree with his points, however.

I agree though that context is key and that it can definitely be a severly backhanded compliment when wielded wrongly.

[javeryh]

I love that Bush thinks he's attractive. Best thing I've read all day.

[PyroGamer]

Uh... it's an inside joke, isn't it?

Like people will say "he's an articulate black man", obviously implying that, despite being black black, he can talk good.

I didn't realize people still used the word "articulate" as an adjective to describe certain black men.

[usickenme]

apparently only if you are democrat

[SpazX]

I guess the point is: does anybody call white people articulate?

If not then why?

[mykevermin]

"the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy."
The bold is where Biden went wrong. I find no problem with articulate as an adjective, personally, and dig the hell out of being told I am, in fact, articulate (I'm German/Irish, FWIW).

What Biden said put it in the context that screamed "good GOD us Democrats have been waiting for a wildly popular black politician to champion for decades. It's a shame they're all so dumb, or else this would have happened a lot sooner. Now we can take advantage of this uniquely educated black person."

It's truly a hard question to answer, because Biden's comment was so overt in its racism that "articulate" has become, I believe, a tarnished word to use in describing blacks for quite some time. It will mostly be considered in the same context of Biden's statement, since it was such a dumbass racist thing to say, and the publicity it received was large. So, there are two time periods: "before Biden" and "after Biden." Now that we're in an "after Biden" world, it's hard to think of how that word functioned beforehand.

There is some substance to poor black communities viewing education and grammar as exclusively "white" things. Bill Cosby's lashed out against that viewpoint, as has Obama (recently). A friend of mine, who teaches in the poorest district in Chicago, confirmed this to me last week; children learn at a very young age not to outshine their peers, lest they risk being taunted by their peers as being "white" (a concept a third grader probably doesn't grasp, I'd argue).

[GuilewasNK]

There is some substance to poor black communities viewing education and grammar as exclusively "white" things. Bill Cosby's lashed out against that viewpoint, as has Obama (recently). A friend of mine, who teaches in the poorest district in Chicago, confirmed this to me last week; children learn at a very young age not to outshine their peers, lest they risk being taunted by their peers as being "white" (a concept a third grader probably doesn't grasp, I'd argue).

Indeed.

I knew Bill Cosby had spoken out. I am so glad someone high profile said what he said. It needed to be done for a long time.

Any links to Obama's statements?

[mykevermin]

http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/03/obama_08_video_.html

There are two videos on that page (I couldn't figure out how to embed them here).

I'll keep to one anecdote about my friend's school district. She had a parent meeting because a student (a 6th grader) was being very hyperactive and disruptive. Pretty common protocol for a parent/teacher meeting, right?

The parent's response to the teacher's explanation:
Well, I know that they aren't smoking as much pot as they used to, so they may be hyperactive because of that. I keep telling them to smoke more pot, but they just won't.

[GuilewasNK]

http://www.oliverwillis.com/2007/03/obama_08_video_.html

There are two videos on that page (I couldn't figure out how to embed them here).

I'll keep to one anecdote about my friend's school district. She had a parent meeting because a student (a 6th grader) was being very hyperactive and disruptive. Pretty common protocol for a parent/teacher meeting, right?

The parent's response to the teacher's explanation:
Well, I know that they aren't smoking as much pot as they used to, so they may be hyperactive because of that. I keep telling them to smoke more pot, but they just won't.

Those Obama videos were excellent. I'm not going to base who I will back on just a few videos, but I REALLY liked his presence and what he said. That was the first time in a long time that I didn't feel someone was just saying crap to get votes or attention. He seemed genuine. He will get a lot more consideration from me.

That parent's response was pathetic.

[Dark Slayer120]

No.

[PKRipp3r]

No.

that wasn't very articulate

[mykevermin]

Those Obama videos were excellent. I'm not going to base who I will back on just a few videos, but I REALLY liked his presence and what he said. That was the first time in a long time that I didn't feel someone was just saying crap to get votes or attention. He seemed genuine. He will get a lot more consideration from me.

That warms my heart; his book's pretty good for a read. I think it made me more moderate than I was before I read it (but it's not like I can go much farther to the left, so any movement would be towards the middle :lol:).

The shameful thing about this situation is that Obama *is* very articulate. He can get across very heartfelt and meaningful points so well; in that Selma anniversary speech, he didn't say anything (about education) that Cosby hasn't said, but he did it in a way that makes it hard to assail him for. Cosby was a bit on the venomous side in his criticisms (and I empathize with his frustrations), so unfortunately, the way he spoke out about it became the matter of debate, not whether or not what he said had any merit.

Obama, like Clinton, possesses great charisma ad great articulation. He doesn't speak over your head, he doesn't dumb down to the point of being phony, he doesn't avoid discussing complex or controversial topics, but he also can do all that without gaining anyone's ire. It's not hard to disagree with Obama, but it's hard to say he's a giant asshole for saying what he says and thinking what he thinks.

Articulate would be a word nobody would use to describe the sitting President; now it's become a word people are afraid to use to describe the person who will be (pleasegodplease) our next President.