CAGcast #68: Symphony of the Meat Spin

[CheapyD]

CheapyD interviews Justin "ViolentLee" Leeper, freelance video game journalist, and Wombat debunks a Lost Planet rumor. We also discuss new releases, the Cheapy Awards and latest console news, answer your questions from the CAGbag (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71382), play your 80s Karaoke Contest (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130291) entries, and much more!

Sponsored by Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Stories (http://www.rockstargames.com/vicecitystories/) for the PS2.
Click here for details on our 80's Karaoke Contest! (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130291)

(http://media.libsyn.com/media/cheapyd/cagcast67.mp3)Download (http://media.libsyn.com/media/cheapyd/cagcast68.mp3) - 118 minutes, 54MB
http://www.feedburner.com/fb/images/pub/feed-icon16x16.png (http://feeds.feedburner.com/cagcast) http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/../podcast/google.gif (http://fusion.google.com/add?feedurl=http://feeds.feedburner.com/cagcast) http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/../podcast/yahoo.gif (http://add.my.yahoo.com/rss?url=http://feeds.feedburner.com/cagcast) http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/../podcast/myspace.gif (http://www.myspace.com/cagcast) http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/../podcast/itunes.gif (https://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZFinance.woa/wa/subscribePodcast?id=78311760) http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/disturbed/misc/80x15-digg-badge-2.gif (http://www.digg.com/podcasts/CAGcast)
Past CAGcasts (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/../archives/cat_cagcast.php)

http://media.libsyn.com/media/cheapyd/cagcast68.mp3

Show Linkage/Notes:

Intro music: Castlevania: SOTN (PS1, 360)

Karaoke Contest (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130291)
Namelessted: Mickey (http://www.singshot.com/contestPerformance.html?performanceId=256435&contestId=1964&play=Y&index=1&sortBy=dateRecorded)
Yipwoop: Main in the Mirror (smeagle remix) (http://www.singshot.com/contestPerformance.html?performanceId=260611&contestId=1964&play=Y&index=0&sortBy=dateRecorded)
Ryvvn: 99 CAG Balloons (http://www.singshot.com/contestPerformance.html?performanceId=253850&contestId=1964&play=Y&index=3&sortBy=dateRecorded)

www.meatspin.com (http://www.meatspin.com)(NSFW or anywhere! do not click!)
www.leekspin.com (http://www.leekspin.com)

CAG Foreplay: New Releases (3/20/07) (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/../archives/cag-foreplay-new-releases-32007.php)

Why Next-Gen Titles Cost $60 (http://www.forbes.com/2006/12/19/ps3-xbox360-costs-tech-cx_rr_game06_1219expensivegames.htmlhttp://rss.slashdot.org/%7Er/Slashdot/slashdotGames/%7E3/103065700/article.pl)

Wii Play joins Sports with platinum sales in Japan (http://feeds.joystiq.com/%7Er/weblogsinc/joystiq/%7E3/102990339/)

Resistance Updates Now Available (http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/resistance-fall-of-man/resistance-updates-now-available-246017.php)
Retailers Demand PSP Price Cut (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3158013)
1.60 firmware update (http://kotaku.com/gaming/firmware/ps3-16-firmware-details-confirmed-245524.php)
PlayStation 3 is down 2-to-1 to Nintendo's Wii (http://www.usatoday.com/tech/gaming/2007-03-19-ps3-woes_N.htm)
Analyst expects PS3 price cut of $100 this October (http://feeds.joystiq.com/%7Er/weblogsinc/joystiq/%7E3/103108042/)

New HDMI, Black 360 Coming Next Month (http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/xbox-360/new-hdmi-black-360-coming-next-month-245540.php)
GameShows on XBLA? (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131801)
Microsoft investigating possible Xbox Live hacking (http://feeds.joystiq.com/%7Er/weblogsinc/joystiq/%7E3/103334241/)
Rumor: Msoft to Buy Take-Two (http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/rumor/rumor-msoft-to-buy-take+two-245864.php)

The 4th Annual Cheapy Awards - Awards Ceremony (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/../archives/the-4th-annual-cheapy-awards-awards-ceremony.php)

CAGbag (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71382)

Digg the CAGcast (http://www.digg.com/podcasts/CAGcast)
MySpace (http://www.myspace.com/cagcast)
CheapyD's Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/cheapyd) (Subscribe (http://www.youtube.com/subscription_center?add_user=CheapyD))

Podcast Review: Wombat and CheapyD’s CAGCast (http://stupidgamer.com/2007/03/20/podcast-review-wombat-and-cheapyds-cagcast/)
Epeleptic Gaming - Internet TV show (http://www.epilepticgaming.com/)

Outro: Atari vs Intellivisoin: Space Games (http://gameads.gamepressure.com/tv_game_commercial.asp?ID=5362)


Bonus Video!

Trash Talk Video Review
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFuyfTz8FbM

[AHEADAMUS]

I don't mean to be snippy or negative... but these keep getting longer and longer. I think you may be getting close to the limit.

[CheapyD]

Oh yeah....i think 60-90 minutes is ideal, but sometimes you have to say, "what the fuck".

[daphatty]

Am I the only one having a problem downloading this?

Oh, and the length is fine. Anyone who complains about the length of the show is in the minority.

[JackFlash666]

A two hour show every once in a while is fine with me - but the meat spin title... oh god, what a choice man!


Daphatty - mine didn't download and errored the first try with the iTunes subscription auto download, but then I just hit the 'get' button and it worked.

[levi333]

Am I the only one having a problem downloading this?



Itunes isn't automatically downloading it for me. Have had it happen a couple times in the past.

[orntar]

Am I the only one having a problem downloading this?

Oh, and the length is fine. Anyone who complains about the length of the show is in the minority.

no, i cant get it either

[AshesofWake]

im going to listen to this one high, about to dto aht right now!

[Aberforth]

DAMMIT why did I click meatspin!!!

[Richlough]

Oh yeah....i think 60-90 minutes is ideal, but sometimes you have to say, "what the fuck".

Risky Business .

[rywateska]

I have yet to listen...but I have never laughed harder to a title than this one. I *can't wait* to see how many people search this.

[daphatty]

Damn. I'm only getting about 3k per second via direct download. How fast is iTunes working?

[Santurio]

I'll have to listen later but........ that shit was just sick.

[yukine]

1:12 minutes until completion...

[gunm]

Thanks Cheapy, now I'm scarred for life.

[CheapyD]

Thanks Cheapy, now I'm scarred for life.

I warned you all not to click it!

[Jackal888]

How foolish was I to look up something that CheapyD mentioned. That was just wrong.

[io]

I warned you all not to click it!

OK, I'm not going to click on it, so tell me what the fuck it is!! :lol:

[gunm]

OK, I'm not going to click on it, so tell me what the fuck it is!! :lol:

No you don't really want to know.

And Cheapy knows that telling someone not to do something is just an open invitation.

[thorbahn3]

Meatspin... BTW leekspin is a clip from Bleach (an anime). Anyways Wombat, although Simpsons arcade on XBLA would rule, EA owns the Simpsons rights currently. :( Even if all hope came through between Fox, EA and Konami it would end not being $5.00 bucks because EA fucking ass rapes you with downloadble content.

[Dingleberry]

wtf wombat...who uses internet explorer. Get with the times.

*edit* 13 spins for me

[AshesofWake]

:rofl: Wombat going to meat spin, LMAO haahahahaaahahaahaaa

[smellytim]

O god Cheapy why the meat spin why!?! dont tell us not to click you know that makes us have to. Its like a hot plate.

[AshesofWake]

hey cheapy, im pretty sure you mentioned your wife telling you about the sausage restaurant from a previous cagcast

*investigates*

[Quintessence]

Why did I go to that fucking meat spin site before I found out what it was! I should have let Wombat be the guinea pig...errr...wombat.
:puke:

[ViolentLee]

I warned you all not to click it!
What inspired mentioning that site, anyway? I recall us talking about it before starting the interview, but I forget the context.

[CheapyD]

hey cheapy, im pretty sure you mentioned your wife telling you about the sausage restaurant from a previous cagcast

*investigates*I think I only mentioned it in the forum thread.


What inspired mentioning that site, anyway? I recall us talking about it before starting the interview, but I forget the context.I think we were talking about www.leekspin.com (safe).

While I was taking a shower before today's show, I just came up the idea that it would be funny to subject Wombat to Meat Spin "on the air".

[AshesofWake]

I think I only mentioned it in the forum thread.
.

ah you are correct, nm. I went back to listen to it, and indeed you did not >_<. it was in the thread :X

[daphatty]

While I was taking a shower before today's show, I just came up the idea that it would be funny to subject Wombat to Meat Spin "on the air".

Had it not been for the fact that Thorbahn3 introduced me to meatspin.com 30 minutes prior, I would not have understood the joke. That being said,

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

That shit was hys-fucking-sterical!

[yukine]

Awesome show! I think the interview with ViolentLee was the best part. It would be nice to see more interviews in the near future.

And the next "full" Wii game is coming out next month. It goes by the name of Super Paper Mario, check out the videos at Gametrailers.com if you haven't already.

[DarkNessBear]

Great show.

I like my CAG Casts long... and meaty.

I havent gone to meat spin... but I think I know what it is. I remeber seeing a disturbing video a while back on YTMND.com... of someone spinning their meat... I can only guess its that but with different music.

[io]

Great show.

I like my CAG Casts long... and meaty.

I havent gone to meat spin... but I think I know what it is. I remeber seeing a disturbing video a while back on YTMND.com... of someone spinning their meat... I can only guess its that but with different music.

I HAD to look... Oh, the horror, the horror...

DarkNessBear, you are correct, to a point. That is what I assumed it would be. But it isn't JUST that. It is so much more than that... :-?

[Conboy]

ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My Eyes, My Eyes!!!!!!!! Isn't there a titspin.com or something to counteract watching meatspin????

[CheapyD]

ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My Eyes, My Eyes!!!!!!!! Isn't there a titspin.com or something to counteract watching meatspin????

www.leekspin.com

[Roufuss]

I don't see the interview in the show notes? Where does it take place?

[CheapyD]

I don't see the interview in the show notes? Where does it take place?

I'm assuming you mean what point in the show (it was recorded over Skype).
It's cut into two parts, about 15 and 82 minutes in.

[Mr Unoriginal]

I was giggling like a maniac while Wombat was opening meatspin. Beautiful.

[Zimmy]

I love these Cagcasts but I was scratching my head that one of the biggest games of the year has been out for a week and will probably make many game of the year lists and there is barely a mention of it (in 1.5+ hours).

I guess God of War 2, probably the most impressive achievements on the PS2 isn't as interesting as Cooking Mama?

;)

[Mr Unoriginal]

I love these Cagcasts but I was scratching my head that one of the biggest games of the year has been out for a week and will probably make many game of the year lists and there is barely a mention of it (in 1.5+ hours).

I guess God of War 2, probably the most impressive achievements on the PS2 isn't as interesting as Cooking Mama?

;)

Well you could hear about GoW2 anywhere and everyone already knows what they are in store for, so I'd rather hear about something that's more obscure.

[Wombat]

I love these Cagcasts but I was scratching my head that one of the biggest games of the year has been out for a week and will probably make many game of the year lists and there is barely a mention of it (in 1.5+ hours).

I guess God of War 2, probably the most impressive achievements on the PS2 isn't as interesting as Cooking Mama?

;)

well that the up and down of being a non-mainstream cast, the big guys get there copy of the game a week prior and have time to play it and discuss it. I work 12 hours a day and spent my entire weekend with family obligations. I hope to pick up a copy maybe tomorrow as I am looking forward to playing it. But what I am curious to know is what do you think we are going to say that wont sound like its regurgitated from every one else out there. Lets face it if a game has a blurb like this at gamerankings "Together their reviews have resulted in an average ratio of 94.3%. That ratio has resulted in this title becoming the 28th best game of all time and the 6th best game on the PlayStation 2. " then you dont need our opinion, thats when we start wasting your time.

Also, not start ranting, but I don't necessarily play a game just because it is new, usually like many of you I wait for it be cheap i.e. COD3 is in my tray now and we got tons of complaints when I didn't talk about it upon release. When I have GOW II we will talk about it, because it is the game we are playing and want to play not because it is new and hot.

[Tybee]

Only 1/3 of the way through the show (two hours…a new record!), but good stuff so far.

As a former game journalist, I enjoyed Cheapy’s interview with ViolentLee. It’s interesting to hear how the industry has changed (and how it hasn’t) since I hightailed it back in 2001 (around the time of the .com crash). It’s also interesting (and sad) to note that the going rate for game reviews hasn’t changed much in six years. When you think about the amount of time it takes to actually play through a game and then labor over a 300- to 600-word piece, getting paid, at best, 2 cents per word is ridiculous. :roll:

Like Justin, I’ve gotten PM’s from a couple CAGs asking me how they can break into the industry. I advise them as best I can, but I think it’s important that they understand that it is extremely difficult to make a living as a full-time game journalist (freelance or otherwise). I was only able to do it at the time because (like Justin) I had a second source of income.

Don’t get me wrong. The job had its upsides. The three E3’s I covered (1999-2001) were definitely the highlight. But I’m sorry to say the bad far outweighed the good. To me, the worst part of writing about video games for a living was that it simply sucked all the enjoyment out of playing them. I was forced to grind through many, many lackluster titles in my day, but even playing the good ones seemed like a chore as deadlines loomed and I was just playing as fast as I could just so I could hammer out my piece and get my meager paycheck. And after that, you certainly don’t feel like playing games in your free time.

Anyway, looking forward to the rest of the interview and the rest of the show. Will post more thoughts once I make it all the way through.

[Zimmy]

Well you could hear about GoW2 anywhere and everyone already knows what they are in store for, so I'd rather hear about something that's more obscure.

True but if there ever was a topic for the Hype Wagon, this was it.
I also think it is the very rare game that actually lives up to the hype.

Even for cheapskates like me, there are certain games that are day one, price is no object like Metal Gear, Halo, God of War, Madden, Mario, etc.

BTW, another useless comment...

For people with HDMI capable receivers, HDMI is a huge bonus.
To be able to get 1080i/p HiDef video with multi channel lossless audio out of one single cable is a great benefit. Compare that to 4 or 5 6ft+ cables that component/optical audio uses.

Another great Cagcast, I think the interview segments are excellent.

[neostryder]

Cheapy D and Wombat,

I've been listening since episode 1, but have not given any feedback until now. I have to tell you both that you're dead wrong on the topic of "Everybody Games".

Cheapy, you have to be kidding about Madden being for everybody. I couldn't have less interest in the game, or in football in general. I don't watch sports, I don't play sports, and I don't have any interest in any sports video games (except Wii Sports, which I might say could be the "Everybody Game").

Wombat, I have to disagree on your choice of GTA being for everybody as well. I played a little bit of Vice City and just gave up because it didn't hold my interest.

Some of us are perfectly content with our RPGs and Nintendo franchises and don't go with the flow of the mainstream. On a side note, I don't think there's such thing as an "Everybody Game".

-Strider

[shipwreck]

Cheapy D and Wombat,

I've been listening since episode 1, but have not given any feedback until now. I have to tell you both that you're dead wrong on the topic of "Everybody Games".

Cheapy, you have to be kidding about Madden being for everybody. I couldn't have less interest in the game, or in football in general. I don't watch sports, I don't play sports, and I don't have any interest in any sports video games (except Wii Sports, which I might say could be the "Everybody Game").

Wombat, I have to disagree on your choice of GTA being for everybody as well. I played a little bit of Vice City and just gave up because it didn't hold my interest.

Some of us are perfectly content with our RPGs and Nintendo franchises and don't go with the flow of the mainstream. On a side note, I don't think there's such thing as an "Everybody Game".

-Strider

By "Everybody Games" they were talking about games that don't just appeal to diehard gamers, but to the general public as well. It's the collective "everybody", not the literal every human. And both GTA and Madden fit into that, the easiest way to see that is to look at the sales numbers. Anything that sits atop the top selling games for a console is basically a "Everybody Game" because more than just the serious gamers are buying it.

It was kind of confusing wording and I don't think Wombat quite understood what Cheapy was getting at either.

[Hex]

Mmmm.. meatspin.

[ma]

The only thing worse than meatspin is listening to these guys say Merry-O over and over again, and claiming it's the right pronunciation because that's how you say Merry-O Andretti. ;)

Enjoying the show otherwise...

[mik]

Like Justin, I’ve gotten PM’s from a couple CAGs asking me how they can break into the industry. I advise them as best I can, but I think it’s important that they understand that it is extremely difficult to make a living as a full-time game journalist (freelance or otherwise). I was only able to do it at the time because (like Justin) I had a second source of income.
Yeah, hearing Justin say an online review would get you $150 was sort of depressing. Hooray--you only need to do about 10 reviews a week to make an ok living. :roll:


Glad you're going back to Resistance, Cheapy. Great game.

[Cambot]

The only thing worse than meatspin is listening to these guys say Merry-O over and over again, and claiming it's the right pronunciation because that's how you say Merry-O Andretti. ;)

Enjoying the show otherwise...

In New York, they (wrongly) say Mary-O. The rest of the world, including the places where people are named 'Mario', pronounce it correctly. Though incorrect, I'm an permissivist linguist, and I say that if the people around you understand what you're saying; then no harm, no foul.

[NateWhs152]

I really like how you guys have been having guest speakers in the CAG cast. Great cag cast good job guys.

[lanzarlaluna]

Cheapy owning Wombat with meatspin.com was the greatest thing I have heard since I've been tuning into the the CAGcast

[sloof70]

I'm so sick of hearing people say that we shouldn't restrict minors from buying M-rated games because their parents need to be more involved. That is such a useless suggestion.

What most people are too stupid to realize is how much you can do without your parents knowledge. No child grows up with their parents knowing and being involved in all that they do. This is starts to become significant between the ages of 13-16. Parents don't have the ability to live their lives and the lives of all their children as well. This becomes even harder when a mother and father have to take care of many children (5 in my parents case). It's just not possible. When little Jimmy sneaks off to Gamestop to buy Chainsaw Rapist VII while his mom is taking Susie to ballet, feeding the baby, and trying to keep Tommy from shoving GI Joes up the dog's ass, would you still blame it on the parents?

Also Wombat and CheapyD neither have children of their own nor seem to be the types that would be very good with kids. Are they qualified to blame parents for not parenting well? I think they need to see what it's like first (and don't give me any of that pet shit, you just stick them in a cage).

Sure, there are some crappy parents. I once worked at a Blockbuster, and a young boy (probably around 8) came up to me with a action movie he had no business seeing. He put it on the counter and I said he would need his parents, he went and got his dad, and his dad approved of it. This father did a tremendous wrong to his son, and unfortunately this happens to many children across America. But this is not representative of the whole.

Parents are normal people. They are mortal men and women, just like you and me. They do their best, but sometimes some things slip through the crack.

[dadeisvenm]

mannn cheapyyy... Why did you say not to go in it me and Trunks982 were at work doing our job then he said, "New cagcast is out..... Cheapy said not to go into meatspin." phhhfff... so I went .... An now... I need to take a bath. Burn my eyes out. leekspin is not enough to get the images out. :bomb:

[felixlighter]

I know, by making this post, my nerd level will increase, but... Wombat, the Redgaurd in Oblivion are a different race, not a different species.

Edit: Here is the race break down...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Races_of_The_Elder_Scrolls

[Tybee]

I know, by making this post, my nerd level will increase, but... Wombat, the Redgaurd in Oblivion are a different race, not a different species.

Be comforted in the knowledge that at least you weren't singing "Man in the Mirror" in Smeagol's voice.

[whiptcracker]

This becomes even harder when a mother and father have to take care of many children (5 in my parents case). It's just not possible.

Sure it's possible. It's called protection. Kids are responsibility, if you can't manage 5 then don't have 5.

And Tybee's earlier post should be quoted anytime someone thinks about trying to get into video game journalism. Only start reviewing games when you are ready for video games to become work.

Edit: Also good show but for some reason Wombat's voice comes in much lower than Cheapy's voice when I listen so I generally have to turn it up pretty high.

[Scobie]

2 hours is too damn long. Anything over one hour is too damn long. You might be able to pull along the die-hards with show lengths like this, but when it comes to growing the audience, there's not a lot of people who will just dive in to a show that asks for such a significant listening commitment.

45 minutes is probably the ideal target length. Anyone who tells you 2 hours is an acceptable show length is not your friend, unless of course you don't care about expanding the audience.

[JadedJedi]

Wombat, I usually agree with you and I think you are funny during the cagcast, but I agree that Grand Theft Auto being a microsoft exclusive would be a huge blow to sony. But Madden is what you call an everyman game? I know Madden always sells the most copies every year, but I can't understand how the same people buy Madden every single year. Its the same game every year with maybe a new tweak, or pimp my house crap attached to a roster update. My cousin has every madden that came out for the gamecube and the 360, and 2 Medal of honor games. What Ea should be forced to do is just release roster updates or Live or PS3 home, etc. but rereleasing the same game every single year, and it seems nobody cares that its the same game is mindboggling to me. I like a whole variety of game genres and will often buy something different just to get new game experiences.

[io]

The only thing worse than meatspin is listening to these guys say Merry-O over and over again, and claiming it's the right pronunciation because that's how you say Merry-O Andretti. ;)

Enjoying the show otherwise...

:rofl:

I didn't want to say anything this time, but that's pretty damn funny ma...

In other news, a night of sleep and a fresh new day (with the sun shining here in OR) has not put the horror of meatspin out of my mind... Ugh... My question - how the hell did you find out about it Cheapy? ;)

[DarkNessBear]

:rofl:

I didn't want to say anything this time, but that's pretty damn funny ma...

In other news, a night of sleep and a fresh new day (with the sun shining here in OR) has not put the horror of meatspin out of my mind... Ugh... My question - how the hell did you find out about it Cheapy? ;)

Its cheapyd's Homepage...

[linkpwns]

I warned you all not to click it!

That is the most amusing part of it all to me.

You tell them not to click it, and without good reason, they all click it anyway. Come on, Meatspin is like the devil's fruit. Anyway, I'm gonna listen to the podcast tomorrow, when I get some time. That's because I don't have 118 minutes to spare today.

[zewone]

The rumored 120GB 360 AND the seperate 120GB HDD to be sold are suppose to come a with a data retention cable to transfer your old saves. To me, this still sounds like someone trying to make their rumor sound more belivable. I'll believe it (black 360) when I see it.

Enjoy your Xdata/port/whatever though Cheapy. :lol:

[crazytalkx]

Great episode yet again! Kudos for the directing of Wombat towards Meatspin.com and for answering my question. I'm planning on joining JET, which could lead to actual living in Japan (in about 4 years) but your answer made me one sad panda.

[bobo2k4]

Best show ever.. seriously.
Loved the length of it and the great interview with Lee.

EDIT: I just checked out Meatspin...awesome.

[ZenGyro]

ARGG I went to meatspin! IT BURNS LIKE 4CHAN BURN!

[PawnTakesKing]

Cheapy and Wombat,

Thank you for this ridiculously long CAGcast. I had to make a two hour drive to Houston today and I was entertained the entire way there. I really like the idea of dividing the interviews into two parts and having your normal segments in between, sort of like a CAG sandwich. You guys have had a great run of shows lately so keep it going!

[gunm]

I forgot to mention that I really enjoyed the interview with Violent Lee. Cheapy is a solid interviewer, and Justin is a seasoned interviewee, and I just like how well the interview flowed overall. I really want to hear more of these in the future.

I'm hoping Wombat can start prodding his alleged contacts in the game/entertainment industry to participate--I think it would really bump up the diggs and listenership if you had some "names" thrown in the mix. Let's get some Capcom and Rockstar people to answer some questions about DMC4 and GTA4 when the timing is right, for example.

[Milkyman]

I've got a question for mr. violentlee, i hope he reads this thread.

A while back on an EGM podcast Jennifer Tsao said that a big hurdle for them hiring freelancers to review games is that the freelancers need to already have access to debug systems to play their review builds of games or be able to walk into their offices to use theirs. do you have access to these systems or do you just play retail copies for review?

[nharmon91]

goddamnit cheapy I fell half as manly now

[Rocko]

This many people have never seen or heard of meatspin until now?

Wow.

[bobo2k4]

This many people have never seen or heard of meatspin until now?

Wow.


Were we supposed to?

[KingBroly]

Well, it took me long enough, but I finally joined the site after listening to the CAGcast after many months.

This episode was entertaining, even though I don't know what everyone is talking about when it comes to the mystery website which was mentioned. I like the idea of splitting the interviews up into segments. That way I can keep interest in it without wanting me to skip ahead.

I know Wombat said Twilight Princess is the Wii's only REAL game. I just wonder what he considers Sonic and the Secret Rings to be. I also wonder what he considers Super Paper MAH-REE-O to be, which comes out April 9th.

[ViolentLee]

I've got a question for mr. violentlee, i hope he reads this thread.

A while back on an EGM podcast Jennifer Tsao said that a big hurdle for them hiring freelancers to review games is that the freelancers need to already have access to debug systems to play their review builds of games or be able to walk into their offices to use theirs. do you have access to these systems or do you just play retail copies for review?
If there's a chance a thread is talking about me, I'm usually lurking on it. ;)

I do have a few debug consoles in my possession -- though only 360 out of the next-gen titles. I hear on good authority that only 50 PS3 debugs went to media, tops -- though if need be, I could go to Yahoo and use theirs. My 360 debug has actually netted me a recurring gig with OXM for the past couple of issues.

DS and PSP games don't require debugs, by the way, as roms work just fine on retail hardware. A few companies send out "trade show demos" which are basically plain discs that somehow work on retail, but that's a small segment.

I review more retail copies than anything these days. That's because, this time of year, companies aren't in as mad of a dash to push games out the door to make holiday. Thus, they can ship out retail to media a week or two in advance. HOWEVER, a big thing to remember is that EGM and other print publications have lead time issues. A review you see hot off the presses was writted a month and a half before (give or take), so that means there likely wasn't a retail copy available. Online reviews, on the other hand, have gone up the day I submitted them to my editor in some cases.

[ViolentLee]

Yeah, hearing Justin say an online review would get you $150 was sort of depressing. Hooray--you only need to do about 10 reviews a week to make an ok living. :roll:
Which one of Utah's palaces do you live in, mik? You must be big ballin', calling $78,000 -- which I don't come close to making -- "an ok living." ;) Remind me to come visit you at your magnificent chalet, swim in your private Olympic-sized pool, and sample your harem of ladies-in-waiting. I look forward to dining on barbecued bald eagle and fried dinosaur skins, served in diamond crystal bowls with talking robot forks.

[hero101]

Great Castlevania Symphony of Night intro; that is so nostogic.

Crap, I went to the meat spin website. I'm didn't want to see that. Ouch...

[Yipwoop]

Thank you for telling everybody the correct way to pronounce "Mario." I grew up in NJ in an Italian family and have always pronounced Mario like Marry - oh. It drives me nuts that people take this guy's take on how to pronounce the name:
http://www.videogamesblogger.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/charles-martinet-voices-mario.jpg

[DarkNessBear]

I was making lunch in the kitchen and I told my GF to go to my computer and search up meatspin.com cause its a cool music site.

All the sudden out of my room, I heard, "You spin me right round!" and her scream.

I couldnt stop laughing for a long time... she beat me up though...

[Richlough]

Thank you for telling everybody the correct way to pronounce "Mario." I grew up in NJ in an Italian family and have always pronounced Mario like Marry - oh. It drives me nuts that people take this guy's take on how to pronounce the name:


These guys grew up in NY and can manage to pronounce the name Mario correctly .;)
http://slowdust.com/beastie_boys2.jpg
...like Mario Andretti 'cause he always drives his car well - Shadrach
...Mario C , you can't front on that ! - So Watcha Want

[io]

I know Wombat said Twilight Princess is the Wii's only REAL game. I just wonder what he considers Sonic and the Secret Rings to be. I also wonder what he considers Super Paper MAH-REE-O to be, which comes out April 9th.

Yeah, I have to say it irked me a bit when they talked of all the bad games coming out for the Wii and that nothing good was coming out until the next MARY-oh and they made it sound like that was Galaxy. WTF? Super Paper Mario is just a few weeks away here... Granted this week's releases were pretty bad overall (though, for a change there were several - I couldn't believe all the new Wii games at GC the other day). But with SPM on the horizon I'm happy. I'm playing Rogue Galaxy now anyway ;).

It's funny, because isn't MARY-oh the way the English would say it? It's kind of wierd that New Yorkers and the English would have a bizarre pronunciation in common, as their language is usually the polar opposite in terms of style :lol:.

I don't have any idea why you guys keep bringing up the Mario voice guy (who says it right) when defending your wrong pronunciation. How about the way it is said in Italy? MARY-oh certainly ain't any kind of Italian way.

Anyway, just nitpicking. I loved the show as usual - keep up the good work! And I agree with Cheapy in that GTA is no "everybody" game. I couldn't have less interest in it myself. While I don't play Madden either, I could at least see myself playing it, unlike GTA. (And I may pick up the Wii version when it gets cheap). Maybe every male between the age of 15-30 plays GTA, and that makes it an "everybody" game for the CAG demographic, but not the general public ;).

[CheapyD]

Actually, it was Wombat who said GTA wasn't an "everybody game". I said it was.

I didn't necessarily mean that everybody played it,
GTA is definitely a franchise, that as an exclusive, has the potential to influence a console purchase.

Also, here is my Trash Talk video review:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFuyfTz8FbM

[io]

D'oh! You're right. Then I agree with Wombat I mean ;).
But sure, I agree with your points above - as an exclusive it would definitely sell consoles.
So, by that definition, OK, it's an "everybody" game. But so is FF, Madden, Mario, Zelda, Halo, etc... I dunno, when there's so many games like that I'm not sure any one has THAT much of an impact on the overall relative console sales (now if one platform can nail down several, or in the 360's case, keep them from being exclusive to another console, then that matters).

[Scobie]

Why is everyone *still* clicking through to meatspin.com? Curiosity killed the cat!

But anyway, Cheapy, maybe next week you and Wombat can celebrate spring with a lemon party!

[ma]

I think Cheapy's right: GTA3 is an "everybody" game (if we're talking about teen to adult casual gamers).

I know a guy who has a PS2 and 3 games:
Madden
NBA Live
GTA3

This dude is the most casual gamer I know.

(He also owns a copy of the PS1 Dukes of Hazzard game, for reasons that escape me.)

[Hired.Geek]

Cheapy and Wombat, Meat spin is a mean thing to do to people, in fact it is all your fault that I tricked five other people into watching that video, and at least two of them I know carried on the joke.

One thing that should define next gen games is multiplayer options. If it makes sense in the game there should be split screen options for multiplayer same console, there should be system link and obviously online support. Now there should also be split screen system link and split screen online support. Although for online support I would probably be ok with not allowing split screen in ranked games. But allot of the time my friends and I will get three or four XBox consoles in one house bring over a projector and hook the rest up to TVs and play for an evening. So games like Halo are one of only a few choices we can all play. So I think it is very important for multiplayer options to be robust.

Cheapy, maybe your Wii is flashing because you have people who want to be your friend, and they are hoping to see a giant bald me in a Kimono show up on their Mii parade. Or it could be Nintendo bothering you about some channel that nobody really wants. I am no expert, but with that bad Australian accent you may have offend most of your Australian listeners! Just Kidding! The reason that your Wii is sitting blinking at you and your batteries are dead is because there are no good games, and there are no multiplayer games. Come on Nintendo you bring us a console that has what I would say has the beginning of last gen graphics and no online multiplayer. There are so many games that are out for the Wii that would be great multiplayer games Marvel Ultimate Alliance, Call of Duty 3, Red Turd, Excite Truck, and Tiger Wood Golf. These are games that are screaming multi player but oh that’s right you released your console before it was ready….Hmmmm what other company does that remind us all of? But it is funny how nobody rags on Nintendo for releasing their console early.

I really had to laugh at Cheapy’s comment “I think of home and I think I am excited.” When I see a hot naked stripper I know I am excited, when I see another tie for Father’s day I try to act excited. There is so little for people to get excited about the PS3 that now we all try really hard to get excited about something…anything, so we can be excited about this platform. Really I am beginning to think I paid $535 for a shiny black box that plays Blu-Ray disks. Let’s hope this next round of games will pump some life into the PS3. As for Resistance I completely agree with you, that the experience is just not at the level as Call of Duty, or Gears of War. I know for me at least it is the lack of rumble, there just is no way to feel the explostions or realize when you are taking some bullets. But I also think the game lacks the feeling of the chaos of combat.

I agree with both Cheapy and Wombat about GTA being a game for everybody even though they seemed to disagree about it. I agree with Cheapy that buying Take Two would make GTA exclusive to XBox, and that this would be a game that sells lots of consoles. It is well known that GTA:SA pushed the sales of a lot of PS2s. So I agree that having GTA exclusive to the 360 would be something that lots people would want and could drive the sales of the 360. Now I also agree with Wombat that this is not a game that everybody wants. The content of the game is that, which sours allot of people to the game. But I think that a large percentage of people who buy consoles and games for consoles will want this game.

It was brought up that parenting and video games seem to be a real problem. I can not believe how many parents have problems reading the ESRB rating. Really I do not know how the ESRB can make it anymore easy.

Cheapy bring up that his Wii and PSP seem to be gathering dust, made me look over my video game collection. By the way my PSP is a little dusty but nothing like the sounds of Cheapy’s little black beast. It got me to thinking and I looked at the consoles that I hardly play, and the games that I have bought and never finished or some never even opened. Is this common among other CAG’s? I know I am trying to work through my wall of shame. I am hoping that by this time next year I will have gotten through the ten or so games that I bought and have not finished, and gotten through the five games that I have not even touched yet.

Last but not least everyone seems baffled by why the Wii and the DS are constantly sold out. Because when they are sold out it gives the appearance that they are something special. Right now I think Nintendo needs to create idea that the Wii is special, because there are not a lot of games to make it special. The DS on the other hand I think they keep the supply down to generate press. The fact that they are sold out generates news. There by creating even more demand.

[afedock]

I was listening to this in the gym, and was laughing at the meatspin thing, as I have gotten meatspun before. Infact, I think I had in the 20,000 spin range before I saw it on my computer....just like a record baby

[supergrass]

Regarding Cheapy's feelings toward Resistance, I tend to agree with him. It's a good game and the online is very impressive in many ways, but the game simply lacks a soul. Whether it's no rumble or the stale narrative or the lack of people talking to each other online, it's just missing the elements that immerse you into the experience.
And I think this is something that has plagued my PS3 experience. Everything about the system feels like it has no soul. The issues that Resistance has carries over to other games and its online component is so lacking. Let's hope Home helps out, though I tend to agree that I don't want to move an avatar around simply to download a movie. But there's great potential there.

[jonnyflash]

Hey Cheapy,
I love the show but I have to question the constant criticism that you have for virtual console games and their prices. You mentioned on the last episode that you thought excitebike was way overpriced, Splatterhouse was a stretch at 600 points and you completly passed over Beyond Oasis. My question is why don't you complain about games like TMNT for the Xbox live arcade? I played it last week, and despite the fun of reliving my pizza fueled youth, my friend and I took 40 minutes or so to beat the whole game. I can't imagine playing it ever again, despite the online play. Its just not that great a game, aside from the nostalgia factor. I don't think it was worth $5, especailly since it was bascially, as you said, an advertisement for the new movie. A free download, even a $1 price? That'd be worth it. As it was, I felt ripped off, especailly since I realized that being able to continue infinetly greatly diminishes the fun of arcade games of this type. The game really hasn't aged well, and with only multiplayer I'm not impressed.

On the other hand, I bought Splatterhouse, yet another TG-16 game I've never played since I never owned a TG-16, and I've been having a lot of fun with it. It is a really good game, and it certainly has more than 40 minutes of gameplay in it. And if Beyond Oasis is anything like other Genesis RPGs, it probably has hours of gameplay as well. As for excitebike, I'll probably play it a lot more than I'll play TMNT, and for the same price I'm getting more than my money's worth.

For me, I like to get bang for my buck. TMNT was bascially a one-time play, but the other's might keep me coming back to the console. Let's get some love for games that give some gameplay for your money, not just nostaliga for our days in the arcade.

[jonnyflash]

Oh, and speaking of "everybody games," I think that if you're talking about something that will help Msoft or Sony establish dominance in the living room as a home entertainment center, I think that GTA is totally wrong. Madden has a much broader appeal, mainly since people are already familiar with the concept(football) and don't have to make the same kind of jump that you do if you play GTA. Some people mention Wii Sports, but honestly the market for home entertainment doesn't need to appeal to Moms and Grandparents. It needs young men, since idiots like us spend the most money on stuff like movies, music and video games. Just try convincing your grandmother she needs an HDTV. Halo is another good everybody game, since it is simple enough that you can pick up and play really quickly, even if you are new.

But Wombat is probably right. Madden is the best everybody game. GTA might be a better "every-gamer" game, but people who aren't into video games generally won't play it.

[jonnyflash]

Sorry about the many replies, but I have to say in closing that although I found the interview boring as all hell, the main part of this cagcast was one of the best since I started listening.

It was the first time I've ever laughed out loud at a cagcast. When cheapy said that only plumbing that the guy who does mario's voice ever sees is in a guy's rear, I nearly fell out of my chair.

[yukine]

I think it's because games on the Virtual Console are nothing more than direct emulations, where as the games on the XBLA have graphical updates, achievements, leader boards, and online multi-player.

[Hired.Geek]

Sloof70

I am curious where did you get your degree in psychology, or in socialolgy? Have you met Cheapy and or Wombat in real life? Maybe you were hanging out with all the Wombat’s by the pool last weekend, and you know Wombat is a shovel wielding mass murderer. And through listening to Cheapy for an hour a week you were some how able to determine that he is some meth cooking evolutionary throw back who would be able to take care of his young? Where do you get off saying that “Wombat and CheapyD neither have children of their own nor seem to be the types that would be very good with kids”. Honestly that is like me telling you that Tricia Helfer’s breasts would fit perfectly in my hands. I do not know that, I can not prove that (although proving this fact I think would be a great experiment). You have absolutely no proof in saying that Cheapy or Wombat could not successfully raise a child, and certainly have no substance to back up such a statement. I guess in short get off your high horse.

I have a fifteen year old, and a nineteen month old. So I guess I feel somewhat qualified to talk on this matter of parenting and mature rated content.

When it comes to M rated video games, I would like to keep my daughter from playing them. But when it comes right down to it the music they listen to, the television they watch, and the stuff they can do at a friends house it is very hard to completely shield them from content that is considered mature. One time I was playing Grand Theft Auto and my oldest daughter came home. I did not hear her otherwise I would have turned off the game and played something else. She saw me playing, we talked about it for a while, and I let her play for about an hour. We talked about what is acceptable in the world of video games, and what is acceptable in the real world. About three weeks later were were at the mall and someone pulled out in front of us at the parking area. My daughter looked at me and said “If we were playing GTA, we could so get out of the car and hand them a beating.” Now had she said we should get out of the car and kick the sh!t out of them, I would have been concerned. But the fact that she could separate the virtual world, from the real world make me comfortable in letting her play games under my supervision that my not be rated for a person of her age. Her and I play Gears of War together, Mario Kart together, Contra, and Doom. When she asks I let her play GTA, and Crackdown. But since they are not forbidden fruit she plays for a while, but honestly she seems to play Viva Pinata, Burnout Revenge, Wario Ware, Trauma Center more then the violent shooters or GTA style games. Now I will say that I noticed that when she started playing these mature games her language habits seemed to be affected and we had to have another conversation about using four letter words, and if it did not stop her certain video games would not be allowed. So I would say to you that you are right, that as mere mortals we can not completely protect our children. But I think no matter how many children you have, it is your responsibility to talk to them about that content and help them make responsible decisions. And that is something that any parent has time to do.

[Monsta Mack]

Damn the profit margin for games is really scary. Hate to see whats going on when games drop in price. Well doesn't matter when the store pays $45 and it drops cheaper anyways, thats the retailers loss.

[linkpwns]

The thing about GTA, is that Wombat is right. You don't see Mom, Pop, and Little Jimmy gathering around the TV to play GTA. It is the every teenage person game. I would agree with that. However, Madden really isn't the everybody game either. It is all around age appropriate, but not everybody is able to play it well.

My ideal "Everybody game" would either be wii sports or warioware: smooth moves for the Wii. Whenever people come to my house, they always ask to play one of those two games, and EVERYONE gets into it. Anyway, just my two cents.

Oh, and the Meatspin thing is priceless. Why has no one on CAG heard meatspin before?

[SteveMcQ]

Damn it for having a decent computer. I was on meatspin in seconds. I suppose I've gotten used to the humor on the show though as I laughed hysterically initially before closing after 7 spins and getting in the corner in the fetal position. Nicely played Cheapy.

BTW, however did you stumble upon the link may I ask? First a movie of you downing a large sausage, now this, has gotten me quite puzzled. Something to think about.

[Gshocker]

OK.. Another great show.. I think the length is good as long as there is decent content to fill it and for now it seems you are having no problems filling the show with interesting conversation.

I listened to the show a few hours after it was posted but my eye's are just now starting to function correctly again after having them burned by meatspin.com. I know I should not have gone there but if you tell someone not to you know they will. Oh the pain.. I think I have been scared for life now.

I also like Resistance and the single player is fun but I agree that many portions of the multiplayer seem to be lacking. Maybe it is just the community that is playing at the moment.. I even missed (only for a second) those stupid kids screaming obsenities during a deathmatch. While I am having fun it does seem a bit more barron in general. This could also have to do with the fact I have far fewer friends on the PS3 than on the 360.

Keep up the great work.. Can't wait for next weeks show.. Maybe by then when you say don't go to a site I wil llisten (probably not).

[yukine]

Why is it such a big deal that it was a long show? Watch it in parts or something, I just think of it as 2 shows for the price of 1!!!!

It beats the earlier CAGcasts, when they were like 8 - 15 minutes long. :lol:

[ihavenolife123]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMwdAc1Dzfg
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2295360340367941531&hl=en
catchy

[Alandrafts]

Cheapy -- another excellent Cagcast (uh, meatspin notwithstanding) and I was truly impressed by your interview with Justin Leeper. You asked all the right questions and had an easy-going interview style that it took me, as a journalist, several years (and countless lame interviews) to develop. I thought Justin's take on freelance game journalism was interesting, but as a freelancer now myself (I don't write about games, usually, but about technology in general), I have a slightly different take on the job -- and since you have readers/listeners who are curious freelance writing, I thought I'd chime in:

First, it's sort of a myth that freelancers make their own hours. Yes, you almost never work the typical nine-to-five (or nine-to-seven-plus, as most journalism jobs tend to be), but freelancing is a feast or famine sort of gig, and when works is offered, it's hard to say no (you start thinking of everything you can buy with that paycheck). Once you take an assignment, your editor's schedule is now your schedule. Multiply that by several simultaneous assignments (if you're lucky enough to get them) and you can see that a successful freelancer has very little room to carve out downtime on their own terms. Having worked as both a staff writer (meaning, I worked at and for a specific magazine) and a freelancer, I can tell you that while, yes, I can now pop out to go to Starbucks at 3 p.m. without anyone giving me a look, it's far harder to plan vacations and even long weekends. Some editor, at some publication, is going to be working those days, and they're going to be expecting to be able to reach me (and if they don't reach me, I always run the risk that they'll find someone else next time).

The other point I wanted to make was about fees. Print publications -- while perhaps far harder to break into than online (I started as an intern in college -- a major computer magazine tended to raid my school for free summer labor -- and that got my foot in the door, where it has been jammed ever since) -- generally pay far above the rates Justin mentioned (for one thing, they generally pay by the word, and at a higher rate than the typical Web site. That said, it still leaves a lot to be desired). Plus, a clever freelancer will find ways to 'repurpose' content, writing about similar things for different outlets, so he's not starting from square one on work each time (of course, some outlets -- particular print publications -- have strict rules about this, though there is usually wiggle room, particularly if they like you (and more importantly, your writing). Maybe game reviews work differently, but this is generally how it goes with freelance journalism.

All that said, Justin raises a very valid point: When reviews are assigned to freelancers, it is almost impossible for them to go through products/games as throughly as readers may expect (or, rightly, demand). For this, blame the publication. Whether online or print, most media outlets work on tight budgets (they have money, but it's going to the sales guys and the PR events, not the writers and editors and art directors -- because that, alas, is how journalism works). They've decimated their in-house staffs so there are precious few staff writers (who COULD afford to play with games and products thoroughly because they're getting a set paycheck each week no matter what they work on), and increasingly, they're relying on freelancers. But because they generally want their freelancers to work cheap (and even print publications pay far less than they should), and freelancers need to eat, it is impractical for them to spend 40 hours with a product and THEN write and re-write a review. Keep in mind, too, that most editors assign reviews on short notice and expect quick turnarounds. So considering all of these factors, the sad truth is, unless the system changes, you're only going to see an increasing amount of 'cursory' reviews. I love my job -- I just wish I was given the resources I need to do it even better. And I'm sure every other freelancer out there would agree. None of us do it for the money (that's what marriage and Lotto are for), but gee -- the mags and sites really need to get their act together if, long-term, they're going to keep their readers happy.

[level1online]

Though Madden may have a much broader appeal than GTA, I don't think either one of those games qualify as an "Everybody Game". I would say Sonic, Mario, or Pac Man are more like "Everyone Games" because they have that "pick-up & play" aspect to them.

But I do agree, the full acquisition of either the Madden or GTA franchise can do some serious harm to the competition.

Anyways, on the subject of parenting (I'm not a parent, so I may be wrong when I say this), I feel that since a parent cannot possibly be protective of thier child 24/7, I do feel it is the responsibility of the parent to educate their teen on a couple key points / life lessons:
1) Don't believe everything you see on TV, especially the News.
2) The Public School System is designed to dumb you down.
3) When in doubt, read a book... preferibly the bible.

But yeah, if I had a child that wanted to play, for example: "Chainsaw Rapist IV", I'd let him, but make him aware of any consequences that may arise from playing such a game while reinforcing my key points (see above).

I'd remind the Blockbuster/Gamestop employee who was trying to deter from buying the game that, "Hey, we still live in a supposed free country, right?" and tell him to mind his own f'n business next time (but in a nice way) :bouncy: .

[Kaijufan]

Cheapy is totally right about GTA being an everyone game. While Madden is an everyone game for football fans, the GTA games are truly everyone games for nearly everyone (except families and young children). The three main GTA games outsold the best selling Madden game in total unit sales for the PS2 by nearly 2 million. (http://www.vgcharts.com/page4.html)
For me personally GTA was huge among my casual gaming friends. For some it was even a system seller, and most bought few games besides GTA.

[yukine]

The GTA series might not be marketed towards young children, but they play and love the games regardless.

The elderly? Not so much.

[Tybee]

Cheapy is totally right about GTA being an everyone game. While Madden is an everyone game for football fans, the GTA games are truly everyone games for nearly everyone (except families and young children). The three main GTA games outsold the best selling Madden game in total unit sales for the PS2 by nearly 2 million. (http://www.vgcharts.com/page4.html)
For me personally GTA was huge among my casual gaming friends. For some it was even a system seller, and most bought few games besides GTA.

Sorry, but put me firmly in the camp that thinks GTA is certainly NOT an "everyone" game. I have no desire to play it, and if I had kids, I wouldn't let them play it either. I hate Jack Thompson, but games like GTA only serve to reinforce the general public's perception that video games are for socially retarded misanthropes who like nothing better than committing virtual crime. I'm sure a certain segment of gamers, both casual and hardcore, labors under the delusion that GTA is this huge cultural touchstone, but I also think that group of people has no clue as to what's going on in the wider world.

The fact is, the vast majority of CAGs are males in their teens to early 30s; a desirable demographic for game publishers (and advertisers), sure, but not exactly broad swath of the population. So one of this group declaring "GTA is for everyone!" is roughly equivalent to Jerry Falwell declaring "Christianity is the most popular religion!" It may seem like a completely true statement to that person and the people around him, but it starts to break down when considered on a broader scale.

The fact that the only two games discussed in this argument are GTA and Madden tells me all I need to know.

[CheapyD]

I'll be sure to discuss the "GTA /Everybody game" statement in greater depth on CAGcast #69 (heh heh).

[ViolentLee]

Cheapy -- another excellent Cagcast (uh, meatspin notwithstanding) and I was truly impressed by your interview with Justin Leeper. You asked all the right questions and had an easy-going interview style that it took me, as a journalist, several years (and countless lame interviews) to develop. I thought Justin's take on freelance game journalism was interesting, but as a freelancer now myself (I don't write about games, usually, but about technology in general), I have a slightly different take on the job -- and since you have readers/listeners who are curious freelance writing, I thought I'd chime in:

First, it's sort of a myth that freelancers make their own hours. Yes, you almost never work the typical nine-to-five (or nine-to-seven-plus, as most journalism jobs tend to be), but freelancing is a feast or famine sort of gig, and when works is offered, it's hard to say no (you start thinking of everything you can buy with that paycheck). Once you take an assignment, your editor's schedule is now your schedule. Multiply that by several simultaneous assignments (if you're lucky enough to get them) and you can see that a successful freelancer has very little room to carve out downtime on their own terms. Having worked as both a staff writer (meaning, I worked at and for a specific magazine) and a freelancer, I can tell you that while, yes, I can now pop out to go to Starbucks at 3 p.m. without anyone giving me a look, it's far harder to plan vacations and even long weekends. Some editor, at some publication, is going to be working those days, and they're going to be expecting to be able to reach me (and if they don't reach me, I always run the risk that they'll find someone else next time).

The other point I wanted to make was about fees. Print publications -- while perhaps far harder to break into than online (I started as an intern in college -- a major computer magazine tended to raid my school for free summer labor -- and that got my foot in the door, where it has been jammed ever since) -- generally pay far above the rates Justin mentioned (for one thing, they generally pay by the word, and at a higher rate than the typical Web site. That said, it still leaves a lot to be desired). Plus, a clever freelancer will find ways to 'repurpose' content, writing about similar things for different outlets, so he's not starting from square one on work each time (of course, some outlets -- particular print publications -- have strict rules about this, though there is usually wiggle room, particularly if they like you (and more importantly, your writing). Maybe game reviews work differently, but this is generally how it goes with freelance journalism.

All that said, Justin raises a very valid point: When reviews are assigned to freelancers, it is almost impossible for them to go through products/games as throughly as readers may expect (or, rightly, demand). For this, blame the publication. Whether online or print, most media outlets work on tight budgets (they have money, but it's going to the sales guys and the PR events, not the writers and editors and art directors -- because that, alas, is how journalism works). They've decimated their in-house staffs so there are precious few staff writers (who COULD afford to play with games and products thoroughly because they're getting a set paycheck each week no matter what they work on), and increasingly, they're relying on freelancers. But because they generally want their freelancers to work cheap (and even print publications pay far less than they should), and freelancers need to eat, it is impractical for them to spend 40 hours with a product and THEN write and re-write a review. Keep in mind, too, that most editors assign reviews on short notice and expect quick turnarounds. So considering all of these factors, the sad truth is, unless the system changes, you're only going to see an increasing amount of 'cursory' reviews. I love my job -- I just wish I was given the resources I need to do it even better. And I'm sure every other freelancer out there would agree. None of us do it for the money (that's what marriage and Lotto are for), but gee -- the mags and sites really need to get their act together if, long-term, they're going to keep their readers happy.
Good points, all. Just a few notes:

Print does indeed pay better than online on average (they also usually have shorter word counts), but I stuck to talking about online stories as they're more realistic for the average gamer to get, what with lead times and use of freelancers.

Most outlets put in your contract that they will not allow repurposing in whole or in part. However, I've been able to write a review for Newtype, say, and one for Yahoo based on the same game and play time. But I generally couldn't write one for Games Radar and then port it over to GameSpy.

[madmook]

Can someone identify the little jig that intros the 1st section of the violentlee interview? Thanks in advance.

[agapens]

Ya know...I don't comment negatively on these types of things normally. I realize there is a lot of hard work that goes into it and as someone who gets to enjoy it for free, I don't really feel that its right to harp on the stuff I don't enjoy. However, I have to say that you have created a Pavlovian response within me to want to violently throttle the nearest person anytime the world "Oblivion" is mentioned. Seriously. SHUT UP ABOUT OBLIVION. My sanity can't take it anymore. I bought the game...didn't like it and sold it back after 3 weeks. I thought that was the end of it. But no. I hear it mentioned it week after week after week after week after week. Even if its not mentioned at length, its still mentioned. Please....just stop. Stop.

I also think that in order for the show to grow, you can't be so dismissive of criticism. The person who mentioned the negative tone of the show was just dismissed out right. If I recall, you went as far as to say "don't listen." Sorry, but that came across as defensive and a bit "prick-ish" for lack of a better work. Whether you agree or not, I too have noticed a overall negative tone to the show. If you're so lazy that you can't turn on your Wii once a week, find a correspondant who will. If wombat doesn't want to buy a PS3, chat with someone who does. I love my Xbox 360, but its seriously the only system you cover in any kind of well-rounded way. This podcast is at its most enjoyable when you guys are pumped and excited about something. Lately, I just ain't feeling it. I think the interviews have been well received because it a chance to hear something other than the same old thing we've heard for months.

Even with all that, I really do enjoy the show. You guys do some great work and deserve all the success this show brings you. Just don't mention oblivion...

[yukine]

Can someone identify the little jig that intros the 1st section of the violentlee interview? Thanks in advance.
It's music from Castlevania: Symphony of the Night. Check the show notes on the first page of this thread, Cheapy always lists the intro and outro music, as well as other links to what was discussed.

[Hired.Geek]

agapens

Oblivion, Oblivion, and Oblivion.

OK now that I am done with my childish rant. Lets ask ourselves why Cheapy and Wombat are talking about Oblivion. And the great thing about it is that is has very little to do with the XBox 360. Oblivion just came out on the PS3, and the expansion pack just came out for the PC and 360.

Cheapy and Wombat are not talking very much about the Wii because like many of us who own a Wii we are not finding new material to talk about it. To quote Luke Smith of 1UP "It's a F&*&king Zelda game playing machine....", and while I am sure that many out there enjoy the Wii, I think there are a growing numbers of Wii's are just sitting quietly on shelves. Listen to the 1UP yours podcast of 03/23/2007, they go into allot of detail about the similarities of the Gamecube release and the Wii release.

As for the PS3, here again I agree with Cheapy mine sits back and does allot of folding now. I watched the new James Bond flick on it but other then that it has been doing allot of sitting. Now this spring and fall when some great exculsive titles start pouring out that may change in a hurry.

I guess in short Cheapy and Wombat can not create the news, well except for Wombat and his five knucle shuffle situation, but when it comes to video game news they simply report. If there is not much happening on a platform all you can do is sit and wait for something to happen.

[CheapyD]

Can someone identify the little jig that intros the 1st section of the violentlee interview? Thanks in advance.
www.leekspin.com

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loituma_Girl

[yukine]

Oops, I thought he was asking for the intro of the show. Yes, that's definitely not Castlevania: SOTN music. :lol:

[MSUnman]

Meatspin.....OMG......unbelievable. Vomit.

[lokizz]

tenchu was and still is in my opinion the best stealth action game ever. it sucks that the later installments never fully lived up to what the first game brought to the ps1 but they were still ok to play. i especially loved the music in tenchu 1 it set the mood perfectly and wwas good enough to listen to on its own. but tenchu is defintly a game franchise that needs a shot in the arm and one way to do that would be to have online ninja missions.


have lets say 20 or more people playing in game worlds as ninja and samurai either defending the shogun or there to assasinate him. but to really make this work youd need a deeper sword and hand to hand combat system because as cool as the stealth kills were the one on one fighting sucked.

and as far as games being sold to the right people i wrote to the esrb a while back that stores should have parents sign responsibility waivers if they decide to buy their underaged kids mature or adult games. that way if their kids are sheepy enough to emulate what goes on in the game the stores arent responsible.

[HOVA uk]

why.. out of interest how many meatspins have you sat through..

i got to 10, and started to feel a bit gay..



i kid.. i kid

[zewone]

I'm proud to say I still have no idea what goes on at meatspin.com.

[HOVA uk]

I'm proud to say I still have no idea what goes on at meatspin.com.sure you don't sonny[in an irish voice]

it's an intresting site though, provides a different aspect of the defenition of meat, you should visit it sometime.

[io]

I'm proud to say I still have no idea what goes on at meatspin.com.

Well you will if you listen to CAGcast #69, because Cheapy "spoils" the surprise aspect of it ;).

[smellytim]

why the meatspin?!?

[tcv]

When Wombat accused ViolentLee of being the meatspin guy, I lost it...