Surprise for us Later Today!?!?!

[jer7583]

I'm sick of all this talk about the PS3's "functionality" because "functionality" is just another term for "required bs I have to pay for if I use it or not." I like the 360 because I don't have to pay for an HD drive in it, or a wireless card in it, or a SD card reader, or 1080p plugs, since I have zero use for those things, and if I had a PS3, I would just be wasting my money by paying for those things.

A lot of people feel this way, and see the choice of the 360's approach more attractive.

Sure it's going to cost more, because the costs aren't being subsidized by forcing everyone who owns the system to pay for it. 100% of PS3 owners pay for a blu ray drive. Everyone who buys a 60GB model pays for a wireless adapter. I think it's safe to say that 15% or less of 360 owners pay for an HD-DVD drive, or Wireless adapter. It just makes sense that those things are going to cost more when they sell less. But to those of us who don't want them, it's a big savings ($200 in price difference)

[zewone]

Don't know if this has been posted or not, but it looks like the Elite does NOT have the 65nm chipset, which blows. I would gladly pay the extra $80 to get that early (compared with the main line). But if now they are going to make the standard model in white with all these features PLUS the 65nm chip and price it back to $400 in the Fall, well, damn, I'm conflicted now. I may just wait :cry:. I'd hate to pay MORE than normal and get the last of the overheating/failing systems. Unless they come out with more info about this supposedly cooler running system (in what way, has it been improved and quieted and cooled in other ways than the 65nm chip would provide?) I'm hesitant...
They have said nothing of releasing the Elite in white for $400. It was a rumor, just like they thought it was going to be a limited run for the black, which doesn't seem to be the case. MS says its here to stay and we're going to have 3 SKUs. I'm guessing you're just going to have to wait until Fall, or maybe even next year for the 65nm chip to be in every 360. But, what does the 65nm chip offer that the 90nm chip doesn't? The 360 runs cooler (though I've never had my 360 get hot) and a lower cost to MS. What is really important to you, seems to be a BenQ drive. I haven't been keeping up with it, but I'm guessing they are available for retail now right?

[FriskyTanuki]

Yeah, I'm just as shocked by this as you are. I would have thought that Discovery would have gotten on the ball to offer Mythbusters episodes at $2 or so a pop. Lord knows I would have bought a handful of them just because!
When did Discovery join the video marketplace? I only see National Geographic on the new list and I don't remember them being on the original list.

[JJSP]

When did Discovery join the video marketplace? I only see National Geographic on the new list and I don't remember them being on the original list.
Discovery Channel's not on the marketplace. One could argue that with the Futureweapons sponsorship of Gears Of War, we'd get due for some sort of Discovery involvement with the marketplace.

Discovery Channel is the most widely distributed cable network in the US, and their programming would be perfect for the young male demographic Microsoft aims for with the 360.

I would assume it's only a matter of time. Personally, I can't wait for shows like Mythbusters or Dirty Jobs to make their way to the Marketplace.

[io]

They have said nothing of releasing the Elite in white for $400. It was a rumor, just like they thought it was going to be a limited run for the black, which doesn't seem to be the case. MS says its here to stay and we're going to have 3 SKUs. I'm guessing you're just going to have to wait until Fall, or maybe even next year for the 65nm chip to be in every 360. But, what does the 65nm chip offer that the 90nm chip doesn't? The 360 runs cooler (though I've never had my 360 get hot) and a lower cost to MS. What is really important to you, seems to be a BenQ drive. I haven't been keeping up with it, but I'm guessing they are available for retail now right?

Yeah, I posted that right after I got home and read the news (and the confirmation of no 65nm). Well, the hope for the 65nm besides it being cooler and quieter is that it might be more reliable (partly just from being cooler). If, somehow, they have improved the reliability of this system then that would be great (which is why I'd like more info on the "runs cooler" comments from a few days back). But I have a feeling we won't hear much from MS either way on that (they wouldn't want to admit to how extensive the problems were with the old systems).

But you are right about the 3 Sku's and lack of the Elite being limited. So that will make it easy to obtain, in any case. I guess I was close to dropping $400 on the current system (I actually owned a Costco bundle for a week before I returned it unopened). I will probably get the Elite anyway after thinking about it. For one, it does not look like the Elite features will be folded into the premium at $400 with the 65nm processor (ie, it will still be $480) - so that makes me feel a bit better about it. And just looking at the current systems, the $80 seems worth it to me just for the bigger HD if nothing else (HDMI is less important to me right now but will be nice later). However, I think MS will probably drop the prices of all 3 Sku's if Sony drops the PS3 (they'd almost have to if the Elite is too close to the 60GB PS3). That wouldn't really bother me though (if I bought an Elite in the mean time).

As for the BenQ drive, I certainly hope all Elite's have these if nothing else. I have yet to find a current model that was made after October 2006 in any store - so none at retail that I have been able to purchase would have the new DVD drive. Hell, many of the 360's I check out at places like Fry's, Best Buy, CC, have been from as far back as May or June of last year :lol:.

[Trakan]

Pretty sure that was the second announcement.

Kotaku said the next announcement would be tonight, so I'm hoping that isn't the second announcment. If it is, worst surprise ever.

[lilboo]

See the thing is...even if it does come with this data transfer cable, it's basically for people who have a 20gb now and want to transfer their saves/downloads/etc over to this new HDD..ok.

But you know what that (from what I believe) means? You can't really upgrade.. You would have to have 2 Xbox360s in your house.. where if i WAS gonna get an Elite, I would try and get the cheaptest way by trading in my current 360 for that...and who knows if GS/EB will have some sort of option to transfer your 20 => 120 at the store when you upgrade..?

When trading in the DS Phat to a DS Lite and you wanted to transfer your friend codes (..sigh) information from one system to another.. that was different since it was fast AND wireless..

But regardless..I don't know why people are THAT mad. Personally, the DS Phat to DS Lite transition was more of a bitch since the DS Lite seemed to pretty much be nearly a whole new system. The Elite really isn't a whole new system..just..more geared towards people who are heavily into HD. If your not that into HD, then you probably won't be downloading a lot of HD movies off of live..so the 20gb HDD should be enough.

Personally, I don't have an HDTV (..::Cries::..) so this isn't that disconcerning for me. But on the bright side, I am excited because I do want a black wireless controller :)

Cheer up people, it really isn't that big of a deal. They just need/want something to go directly head to head with the PS3. This is for people who don't have a 360 yet, and to try and get them on board with us =) And if you want one SOO bad and you already have a 360..then it looks like your going to trade it in. No biggie.

Ok, i'm done :)

[benjamouth]

The Elite's a big fat "Meh" for me, I have a high-def TV and component cables are fine, I think this HDMI stuff is a crock frankly.

The 120 gig drive seems very expensive and a waste of time, unless you're downloading a lot of TV and movies.

And to the PS3 trolls who seem to be infiltrating this XBOX 360 forum, firstly thanks, I'll feel free to go and troll on the PS3 forum now and secondly I could care less about Blu-ray, HDMI etc etc etc, when the PS3 has some decent GAMES on it, you know ones that are actually worth playing then I'll be impressed.

Man, I'm in a foul mood this morning.:bomb:

[Apossum]

Oh I didn't see in his original post he was pricing out the premium. I guess if you price out the Elite now, you can cross off HDMI, don't know what you mean by "true 1080p", I thought they were removing the emotion chip, and yeah, not everyone wants a HD movie player.

After mulling over the official announcement, I really hope MS decides to offer a substantially discounted Add-on with the purchase of an Elite very soon.


if you're going to talk value, then look at what's really there, not what you want or don't want. that's how it works. yeah, I don't use blu-ray that much right now either, but it's in there.

Yeah, MS might do that. or they'll just leave this how it is because they're MS and this is what they do when they're comfortable in their position in any market. This is like the Windows ME of 360s. hopefully it won't crash as much.

[KaneRobot]

Apparently, there is no data transfer cable...


http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/03/microsofts_john.html


Perhaps you will be able to upload your saved items to a microsoft server...and download to your new HD.

I'm sure their "solution" will be to sell you the cable seperately at a ridiculous pricepoint, just like Microsoft always does with their peripherals. And then morons will come out of the woodwork to claim that "THE 120 GB HARD DRIVE IZ A GOOD DEAL CUZ U GET A $25 CABLE W/ IT"....as if the cable should be 25 bucks in the first place.

Microsoft's "we offer choice" standpoint is quickly going from offering decent options to most annoying thing in the industry today. "Would you like to choose to pay for our overpriced cable or hard drive, or would you like to choose to go fuck yourself and stick with our rinky-dink small hard drive?"

[Zen Davis]

Eskimos... meet ice cube.

[CheapyD]

Weird...I listened to Major Nelson's special mid-week show and his interviewee said there would be an included data transfer cable.

[jeffreyjrose]

Does anyone know what the current sales breakdown of Core vs. Premium consoles is? I'm guessing about 15% Core, 85% Premium. If that's the case, the Elite's sales will only cannibalize the Premium's share... I'm assuming the new sales breakdown will be 15% Core, 70% Premium, 15% Elite.

I feel sorry for retail employees who now have to explain all 3 versions to potential customers. If a parent or Joe Gamer walks into Gamestop and asks for a 360, an employee will have to ask which one.
Joe Gamer: I'd like to buy a 360.
Employee: Which version?
Joe Gamer: Version?
Employee: Yeah: Core, Premium, or Elite.
Joe Gamer: What's the difference?
Employee: *takes time to explain prices, hard drives, extras, HDMI, color, etc.
Joe Gamer: Um.... how about I just get a Wii?

[Brian9824]

I have my 360 and won't waste my money on an elite. I'm not pissed or anything but i do think its a bad ploy on Microsoft's part. For the price they are charging they really should have included a wireless adapter or built in wireless into the elite OR priced it lower to undercut Sony. By releasing a MORE expensive system they are weakining their cost advantage they had.

I've said repeatedly since launch that the 20 GB HD wasn't going to be sufficient and that they would be forced to release something bigger despite all their claims of having no plans to do so. So its no surprise that this is happening but that price is crazy for the HD. Granted laptop HD's cost more then others but they are making a VERY high profit on those HD's.

It's pretty poor taste to release a big revamped console system so soon after launch, handhelds are a different story. Internal revisions don't count as a new model btw since the sku's stay the same. At least though like most have pointed out its not a major deal since the functionality is mostly the same. Just poor business decisions IMO

[buttasuperb]

Kotaku said the next announcement would be tonight, so I'm hoping that isn't the second announcment. If it is, worst surprise ever.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/buttasuperb/supplies.jpg

[Z-Saber]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/buttasuperb/supplies.jpgOne of the best parts.

[Weedy649]

Does anyone know what the current sales breakdown of Core vs. Premium consoles is? I'm guessing about 15% Core, 85% Premium. If that's the case, the Elite's sales will only cannibalize the Premium's share... I'm assuming the new sales breakdown will be 15% Core, 70% Premium, 15% Elite.

I feel sorry for retail employees who now have to explain all 3 versions to potential customers. If a parent or Joe Gamer walks into Gamestop and asks for a 360, an employee will have to ask which one.
Joe Gamer: I'd like to buy a 360.
Employee: Which version?
Joe Gamer: Version?
Employee: Yeah: Core, Premium, or Elite.
Joe Gamer: What's the difference?
Employee: *takes time to explain prices, hard drives, extras, HDMI, color, etc.
Joe Gamer: Um.... how about I just get a Wii?

Ask them if they want to pick up xbox live sub with it. If no then why not? No broadband or its for someone who wont use it? Recommend the core for the lowest price.
Does Joe Gamer have an HDMI enabled tv? Does he think he will use the HDD space? Recommend Elite...but honestly most customers who want an elite will come in knowing what it is.
Otherwise just recommend the premium. Of course with all 3 options you briefly explain the differences but this is after you already recommended the version you think best suites the customer. Also ask them if they think its best for them after you describe the others briefly.

Most parents dont want/need the headache of figuring out whats best for their kids...thats why you work there to guide them. Last but not least, chances are that they would be coming in for a wii and walking out with a 360 because the wii is always sold out.

[jeffreyjrose]

Ask them if they want to pick up xbox live sub with it. If no then why not? No broadband or its for someone who wont use it? Recommend the core for the lowest price.
Does Joe Gamer have an HDMI enabled tv? Does he think he will use the HDD space? Recommend Elite...but honestly most customers who want an elite will come in knowing what it is.
Otherwise just recommend the premium. Of course with all 3 options you briefly explain the differences but this is after you already recommended the version you think best suites the customer. Also ask them if they think its best for them after you describe the others briefly.

Most parents dont want/need the headache of figuring out whats best for their kids...thats why you work there to guide them. Last but not least, chances are that they would be coming in for a wii and walking out with a 360 because the wii is always sold out.

Lol, I don't work in game retail. Never have, never intend to... I'm just saying that this situation will present itself, and game stores with only 1-2 employees on hand will discover this dilemma.

[orntar]

Apparently, there is no data transfer cable...


http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/03/microsofts_john.html



Perhaps you will be able to upload your saved items to a microsoft server...and download to your new HD.

http://www.xboxyde.com/news_4145_en.html

that interview says they will supply a cable free of charge to those who ask for one.

[galvatron2k1]

A slimmer of hope, although I think this definitive answer came from the podcast last night in which "Albert" said that there wasn't going to be an upgrade solution for current 360 owners.

If they do this, I will definately give HUGE props to Microsoft.

http://xbox360.gamespy.com/articles/776/776443p2.html (bottom of page 2)


GameSpy: There is no announced solution in place for current Xbox 360 owners to migrate data to the new hard drive if they purchase an Elite system, as the data cable and software is only included in the stand-alone hard drive accessory. What about owners who want to replace their existing system? Albert Penello: While there isn't a system in place yet, we're working on a system so that current Xbox owners can move from an old box to a new elite.

[Indiana]

MGS4 will never leave ps3 maybe multiplatform but not exclusive to 360. Come on price raise.

I wouldn't say never! MG started on the NES after all.

[Indiana]

Ask them if they want to pick up xbox live sub with it. If no then why not? No broadband or its for someone who wont use it? Recommend the core for the lowest price.
Does Joe Gamer have an HDMI enabled tv? Does he think he will use the HDD space? Recommend Elite...but honestly most customers who want an elite will come in knowing what it is.
Otherwise just recommend the premium. Of course with all 3 options you briefly explain the differences but this is after you already recommended the version you think best suites the customer. Also ask them if they think its best for them after you describe the others briefly.

Most parents dont want/need the headache of figuring out whats best for their kids...thats why you work there to guide them. Last but not least, chances are that they would be coming in for a wii and walking out with a 360 because the wii is always sold out.

It will be confusing to the customer. I picked up my premium at BB and wasn't even talked to by an employee. You EXPECT customer service?

[Indiana]

My only complaint with the new system is that it really makes it difficult to want to purchase the system at release. I waited 1 year and got one this Christmas.

Now with MS releasing a new version with better hardware basically a version 2 of the 360, I will delay purchasing the next gen systems for several years. I will just wait for version 2 or 3 of the system to come out.

I'm not upset, I just feel that MS and Sony have changed the console market to be more like a PC or Ipod. Newer version with bigger drives and features will come out.

The PS3 without the emulation chip in the future, and now MS with a bigger hard drive and HDMI.

Hopefully Nintendo won't do this next. They may be the only company that understands a console is a console.

[mykevermin]

I wouldn't say never! MG started on the NES after all.

'scuse me while I ruffle through decades of past forum posts of mine.

*ruffleruffleruffle*

OH! Here it is! Check out this nuggest that I left in a Prodigy chatroom:

"Squaresoft will never leave Nintendo. Final Fantasy 64! Say it with me!"

[galvatron2k1]

My only complaint with the new system is that it really makes it difficult to want to purchase the system at release. I waited 1 year and got one this Christmas.

Now with MS releasing a new version with better hardware basically a version 2 of the 360, I will delay purchasing the next gen systems for several years. I will just wait for version 2 or 3 of the system to come out.

I'm not upset, I just feel that MS and Sony have changed the console market to be more like a PC or Ipod. Newer version with bigger drives and features will come out.

The PS3 without the emulation chip in the future, and now MS with a bigger hard drive and HDMI.

Hopefully Nintendo won't do this next. They may be the only company that understands a console is a console.

Per previous posts... they have already started doing this with their handhelds (Nintendo that is). Bottom line, we the consumers are paying for it... When will it stop? Probably never or until we stop buying this garbage.

[Weedy649]

It will be confusing to the customer. I picked up my premium at BB and wasn't even talked to by an employee. You EXPECT customer service?

The scenario i responded to was one in which a customer was talking to an employee...so yes there was customer service.

If you are shopping somewhere without any sort of customer service it wont matter how many 360 skus there are cuz ur SoL if you dont know what you're doing.

[thrustbucket]

To the PS3 fanboy's:

If I only have $300, don't have an HDTV, and don't even have internet - Which PS3 does Sony offer my rather large demographic?

[galvatron2k1]

To the PS3 fanboy's:

If I only have $300, don't have an HDTV, and don't even have internet - Which PS3 does Sony offer my rather large demographic?

A playstation 2.

[Brian9824]

for $300 most people here wouldnt even sugest a core 360. I mean you'd need at least $340 to get a system that can save.

[Apossum]

To the PS3 fanboy's:

If I only have $300, don't have an HDTV, and don't even have internet - Which PS3 does Sony offer my rather large demographic?

I hear if you call someone a fanboy, you don't have to deal with their argument, is that true? :lol:

they don't offer one (though PS3 games don't look like Pong on a regular TV.) the argument is that this new 360 is a complete rip off though for those who want an HD system. I don't even know where to begin with the $180 HDD :rofl: that sounds more ridiculous every time I read it.

$600 has been the complaint all along, now we've got a $480 system that doesn't even come close to matching up in features.


I would be all over an upgraded 360, but this one is crippled.

[captmurphy]

I hear if you call someone a fanboy, you don't have to deal with their argument, is that true? :lol:

they don't offer one (though PS3 games don't look like Pong on a regular TV.) the argument is that this new 360 is a complete rip off though for those who want an HD system. I don't even know where to begin with the $180 HDD :rofl: that sounds more ridiculous every time I read it.

$600 has been the complaint all along, now we've got a $480 system that doesn't even come close to matching up in features.


I would be all over an upgraded 360, but this one is crippled.

I still don't see where all of these "features" the PS3 has that the 360 Elite doesn't (besides Blu-Ray) are. Are we talking about Wi-Fi and a card reader? If so, I don't think the term "doesn't even come close" is appropriate. The 360 has some features the PS3 doesn't (like the video marketplace, 60 more GB, rumble)... I suppose I just fail to see what you consider to be a severe lack of features in comparison to the PS3.

[galvatron2k1]

"I know I'm pissed and will not buy another console from Microsoft because of this..."

Because of a revision 18 months after it was released. Don't buy a Nintendo, Sony, Apple, etc. ever then.

Now that I think about it and assuming an upgrade plan for existing owners of a 360 does not happen, how many companies have made you pay more for an upgraded version of the same LAUNCH system than you originally paid for it to begin with (excluding Apple because their Ipods are ridiculous)?

360 Premium at launch = $399 vs. 360 Elite = $489

Are there any others?

[MSUHitman]

I think the confusion about data transfer cable or not is with the Elite system itself there is no transfer cable, but the seperate 120 GB hard drive for $180 will have a data transfer cable.

[Apossum]

I still don't see where all of these "features" the PS3 has that the 360 Elite doesn't (besides Blu-Ray) are. Are we talking about Wi-Fi and a card reader? If so, I don't think the term "doesn't even come close" is appropriate. The 360 has some features the PS3 doesn't (like the video marketplace, 60 more GB, rumble)... I suppose I just fail to see what you consider to be a severe lack of features in comparison to the PS3.



that's the problem. everybody's picking and choosing what they want to call features--it's what's in the system, not what you want, it's what you get when you buy it.

what you get-- Blu-ray for movies (AND for games which is going to matter in the future), wireless, memory card readers (which people will use to back up their data, which the 360 doesn't offer), replaceable HDD, and use any webcam you want, as well a motion sensing controller.

With some of these, you pay out your nose for the MS equivalent. others, you can't do at all. You're right about the 60 more gb though, which I'm sure will be very useful. Also, there will be a video marketplace with the free Home service and the motion sensing controller is better than rumble. anyone who has played Flow (or has had to use it in resistance) will tell you that. Rumble is one of those things you don't notice missing after a few days.

an extra 60gb and an HDMI port doesn't quite match up.


anyway you slice it, the PS3, which has been knocked for its price for months now, is a bargain compared to the Elite. Some would argue it has always been the better value, but now that MS has closed the price gap, it's more obvious.

[jer7583]

The elite system is a total clusterfuck and is going to hurt MS in the end. Thumbs down on this one, A price drop on the Premium would have helped keep them at the top, but this is going to help PS3 sales if anything.

[thrustbucket]

I still don't see where all of these "features" the PS3 has that the 360 Elite doesn't (besides Blu-Ray) are. Are we talking about Wi-Fi and a card reader? If so, I don't think the term "doesn't even come close" is appropriate. The 360 has some features the PS3 doesn't (like the video marketplace, 60 more GB, rumble)... I suppose I just fail to see what you consider to be a severe lack of features in comparison to the PS3.

You forgot the very most important "feature" that any game console can have: GOOD GAMES.

Shit, the Jaguar had better "features" for the money..... but

[PyroGamer]

You people are hillarious.

How fucking stupid would MS be to not release a bigger hard drive? What's the fucking point of a removable drive if it's not upgradable???

If you dumbasses didn't realize when you bought it that there would be an upgraded hard drive eventually, that's your problem.

And it's not like you could even get this HDMI and 120GB HD for the same price as your premium! It's $80 more.

Jesus fucking christ. It plays the same fucking games, this is nothing but good news.

I can't believe I'm actually responding to you dumbasses.

[galvatron2k1]

You people are hillarious.

How fucking stupid would MS be to not release a bigger hard drive? What's the fucking point of a removable drive if it's not upgradable???

If you dumbasses didn't realize when you bought it that there would be an upgraded hard drive eventually, that's your problem.

And it's not like you could even get this HDMI and 120GB HD for the same price as your premium! It's $80 more.

Jesus fucking christ. It plays the same fucking games, this is nothing but good news.

I can't believe I'm actually responding to you dumbasses.

It's not $80 more for some... it's more like $480 more at this point. I would be ecstatic if it were just $80 to upgrade, I would even say $180 is a steal.

[benjamouth]

anyway you slice it, the PS3, which has been knocked for its price for months now, is a bargain compared to the Elite.

You're right we shouldn't knock the PS3 for it's price, much better to knock it for it's piss poor games selection.

[Weedy649]

$80 more for 100 Gigs more of hard drive space and HDMI is not bad when you look at it. This of course is if you have use for those features and didnt already invest in a 360. I dont fall into either category so it doesnt effect me.

For the record id buy a $500 ps3 which would let me play blu ray over a $480 360 that has a big HD

Also i see the elite as a M$ strategy to kill ps3 sales(though like i said with me it would boost them). People who dont know about gaming think the higher the price, the better something is....actually wait that applies to what most people think about everything. By having 3 SKUS, microsoft can compete with the wii at a low price, have its own market at a mid price and now compete with the ps3 at a high price. Not that it wasnt competing with the ps3 before...but like i said with the way some people think, there is only competition if price wise things are somewhat similar.

[Apossum]

It's not $80 more for some... it's more like $480 more at this point.


assuming you get $400 for your 360.

You forgot the very most important "feature" that any game console can have: GOOD GAMES.

Shit, the Jaguar had better "features" for the money..... but

and you were calling ps3 fans "fanboys"? :lol:

How ing stupid would MS be to not release a bigger hard drive? What's the ing point of a removable drive if it's not upgradable???

oh...you knew this whole time it would have to be a 120gb HD (I could hardly fill up a 20gb...) and that it would be......$180?

[JJSP]

that's the problem. everybody's picking and choosing what they want to call features--it's what's in the system, not what you want, it's what you get when you buy it.

what you get-- Blu-ray for movies (AND for games which is going to matter in the future), wireless, memory card readers (which people will use to back up their data, which the 360 doesn't offer), replaceable HDD, and use any webcam you want, as well a motion sensing controller.

With some of these, you pay out your nose for the MS equivalent. others, you can't do at all. You're right about the 60 more gb though, which I'm sure will be very useful. Also, there will be a video marketplace with the free Home service and the motion sensing controller is better than rumble. anyone who has played Flow (or has had to use it in resistance) will tell you that. Rumble is one of those things you don't notice missing after a few days.

an extra 60gb and an HDMI port doesn't quite match up.


anyway you slice it, the PS3, which has been knocked for its price for months now, is a bargain compared to the Elite. Some would argue it has always been the better value, but now that MS has closed the price gap, it's more obvious.
For the card reader argument, you can pick one of those up for the 360 for $10. By wireless, I assume you mean internet - which is cool and all, but can be done on the 360 for cheap as well. Most of America wouldn't know how to run a wireless network anyway, so that feature doesn't really apply.

It seems Sony spent all of their time putting "features" into their $600 box without concentrating on the games to help move the system. After Resistance, their launch lineup was WEAK with a capital W, and most of their top-tier games are coming to the 360 as well.

[PyroGamer]

It's not $80 more for some... it's more like $480 more at this point. I would be ecstatic if it were just $80 to upgrade, I would even say $180 is a steal.Jesus christ. It's an upgraded console. How is this bad news?

Your old console isn't going to become obsolete! The old console does exactly the same stuff as it did when you decided it was worth $400!

[BULL_Ship]

anyway you slice it, the PS3, which has been knocked for its price for months now, is a bargain compared to the Elite. Some would argue it has always been the better value, but now that MS has closed the price gap, it's more obvious.


This would be a great comparison if the ps3 had any good games.

[RedvsBlue]

:rofl:


This thread's great. You've got a ton of PS3 fanboy's in here arguing endlessly because its their first chance to get back at everyone for trashing on the PS3's overinflated price. I think the really funny part is that aside from them, almost no one is posting in this thread cause "NOBODY GIVES A SHIT." You see, we've already got our 360's that manage to play some damn good games and none of us give a shit about HDMI or an over-priced bigger harddrive.

Why don't you guys go troll the Wii forums now and complain about how that system is crippled too and would cost so much more than the PS3 if you could upgrade it?

Oh, and by the way, the price gap between the elite and PS3 is still $120 so I'm not entirely sure how you guys can say its still a better value. And before you say it, If you're buying a 360 for high def movies the Premium unit hooks up to the HD-DVD add-on just fine.

[KaneRobot]

The irony of Microsoft's "WE GIVE YOU MORE CHOICE" stance grows more hilarious as the months go on. Thanks for giving us the "choice" to upgrade to your overpriced hard drives and memory cards, or don't upgrade at all!

Choice is letting us use our OWN hard drives and memory cards. The PS3 has it all over the 360 in that regard.


How is this bad news?

You haven't been paying attention, apparently. I've seen you ask this question like 2 or 3 times just in the last couple pages, when the answers are everywhere. Don't get all pissy and say "OMG I CANT BELIEVE I'M RESPONDING TO YOU DUMBASSES" when you're the one with a fucking reading comprehension problem.

[PyroGamer]

Apparently, there is no data transfer cable...


http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/03/microsofts_john.html



Perhaps you will be able to upload your saved items to a microsoft server...and download to your new HD.
There is a transfer cable. It's bundled with the 120GB hard drive, along with software.


It's not in the Elite system, though.

[PyroGamer]

Weird...I listened to Major Nelson's special mid-week show and his interviewee said there would be an included data transfer cable.
There is, it's included with the seperately packaged hard drive, not the Elite console.

[benjamouth]

:rofl:


This thread's great. You've got a ton of PS3 fanboy's in here arguing endlessly because its their first chance to get back at everyone for trashing on the PS3's overinflated price.

In fairness I don't blame PS3 fans for posting here, the most exciting thing going on in the PS3 Forum is a playable demo of Ninja Gaiden coming in June. A game which I believe is a port of an old Xbox game.

Great time to own a PS3 I must say, don't worry though, you'll be getting your 3D MySpace soon enough. Decent games on the other hand..........

[Brian9824]

You people are hillarious.

How fucking stupid would MS be to not release a bigger hard drive? What's the fucking point of a removable drive if it's not upgradable???

If you dumbasses didn't realize when you bought it that there would be an upgraded hard drive eventually, that's your problem.

And it's not like you could even get this HDMI and 120GB HD for the same price as your premium! It's $80 more.

Jesus fucking christ. It plays the same fucking games, this is nothing but good news.

I can't believe I'm actually responding to you dumbasses.

There are quite a few valid complaints about this though. Its clear that the 20 GB HD was too small and was only an option because this wasn't ready. It's also clear that microsoft was lying for over a year saying they had no plan's to release a bigger HD while they were working on this upgraded system. They knew with their IPTV plan's 20 gig's wouldnt be enough and they knew they could release a 20 GB HD now and then charge you again for a bigger one.

Those 2 factors alone are grounds to be a bit mad. I agree the system is basically the same and will do much of the same features.

[CoffeeEdge]

...and the motion sensing controller is better than rumble. anyone who has played Flow (or has had to use it in resistance) will tell you that. Rumble is one of those things you don't notice missing after a few days.

Bullshit. Flow is a piece of shit (I've written essays on this, perhaps I'll post them later), and the tilting is shit. Have you tried playing Virtua Tennis 3 with it? It's bullshit. The claims that you PS3 fanboys don't miss rumble are all bullshit, and you know it.

[galvatron2k1]

Jesus christ. It's an upgraded console. How is this bad news?

Your old console isn't going to become obsolete! The old console does exactly the same stuff as it did when you decided it was worth $400!

The point is this. I want an Elite because I have a use for the additional features. Now, my complaint is, I was loyal to Microsoft and bought there system on day 1 when they had all their problems.

As of right now, I am being told by Microsoft that if I want to upgrade to this system, it is going to cost me $480 - no matter how you sum it up! That is more than I paid for the damn thing initially.

My main focus is HDMI which my TV supports and will get me the addition of 1080p since my M$ VGA cables make the color washed out.

Many of you think that the upgrades are minimal and don't need it, then fine... that is your choice. However, there are some of us out there that would benefit from the new features and would like to take advantage of it. My only complaint is why do we have to pay $480 to do that? Microsoft should give an option for the people that already have the console - at an added cost I might add - to upgrade - NOT purchase a 2nd system! (and I am glad they are looking into this). But as of last night's podcast from Major Nelson, "sorry" does not cut it for me and frankly it pisses me and others like me off.

And for those that cannot see this as an advantage for Sony, I don't know what to tell you.

[galvatron2k1]

The irony of Microsoft's "WE GIVE YOU MORE CHOICE" stance grows more hilarious as the months go on. Thanks for giving us the "choice" to upgrade to your overpriced hard drives and memory cards, or don't upgrade at all!

Choice is letting us use our OWN hard drives and memory cards. The PS3 has it all over the 360 in that regard.

Give me the choice to upgrade at a reasonable price Microsoft!

[Damian]

Give me the choice to upgrade at a reasonable price Microsoft!
Has any console ever offered this in history?

[PyroGamer]

You people are fucking riddiculous.


UPGRADE????

You've GOT to be fucking kidding me.

Bill Gates may run the worlds largest charity, but it's certainly not to give you people overpriced electronics for absolutely nothing.

[GrimNecroWizard]

Jesus christ. It's an upgraded console. How is this bad news?

Your old console isn't going to become obsolete! The old console does exactly the same stuff as it did when you decided it was worth $400!

You're obviously a PS3 fanboy, I can see why you're here acting like a douchebag instead of playing PS3's shitty games, but your arguement is TERRIBLE. If you already bought the system, and wanted to upgrade, you're screwed. If you want the HDMI, you're screwed. How is it good if you want the new stuff but already bought one?

[getmyrunon]

My thoughts: Microsoft is making money hand over fist this gen, and once they learned (several months ago, no doubt) that the PS3 was going to MSRP at $600 - they figured they could "crush" it by offering this lower cost option at $480. We'll see if they're right or not. Regardless, they're making money, probably a lot more than Sony, and that's what it's all about.

[ryanbph]

You people are fucking riddiculous.


UPGRADE????

You've GOT to be fucking kidding me.

Bill Gates may run the worlds largest charity, but it's certainly not to give you people overpriced electronics for absolutely nothing.

yeah i am a little shocked at reading some of the points feeling they should get the upgraded discount because they bought the console. Most people bought the console to play games on it. Yes I want the hdmi outputs, but without the smaller chip/quieter drive I can wait untill the $400 white elite is released

[ryanbph]

You're obviously a PS3 fanboy, I can see why you're here acting like a douchebag instead of playing PS3's shitty games, but your arguement is TERRIBLE. If you already bought the system, and wanted to upgrade, you're screwed. If you want the HDMI, you're screwed. How is it good if you want the new stuff but already bought one?
you suck it up and buy the new one...you guys have got to be fucking kidding right. You have had up to 18 months to play on the 360...Would it be nice if they had an hdmi output on the current premium system, without a doubt...but to think that msft would take your console and give you a upraded version if fucking crazy

[galvatron2k1]

Has any console ever offered this in history?

Nope... they have not but have offered alternatives, all at considerably less money that originally paid for the console.

PS2 and GC online - buy an adapter.

Xbox, PS2, Gamecube hi-def - buy the hi-def cables.

X360 bigger HD - buy the 120GB HD

X360 1080p through HDMI - screwed.

And as I asked before, when a console was redesigned or "upgraded", did it come out for a higher price than the system originally launched?

And for that matter... what of those people that bought the damn console at the beginning of 2007? They have had it 4 months. What are they supposed to do?

[ryanbph]

No I don't believe a system has gone up in price...I would imagine msft reasoning is that the overwhelming majority of people don't have the need for hdmi, so the amount of customers that just bought one that are bothered by this is probably slim. Is it right, no. It is like the vocal minority that want bigger friends list, but allegedly the avg amount of people on friends list is 26 or so. There is no need to increase the friends list capacity if the overwhelming majority don't fill it up. Just like the overwhleming majority of xbox 360 owners don't have or care about hdmi....and imo it is a big mistake on msft part...they could bury sony...maybe they thought if it had a 120 gb hd and hdmi, then it would seem cheap when next to the ps3..it appears that msft has taken the stupid fucking pills that sony was taking last e3

[Damian]

Nope... they have not but have offered alternatives, all at considerably less money that originally paid for the console.
And you just listed alternatives for everything except HDMI. It didn't have HDMI when you bought it, but it was still worth $3-400 to you. It's not going to stop being worth that because there's now a more expensive model with more options.
And for that matter... what of those people that bought the damn console at the beginning of 2007? They have had it 4 months. What are they supposed to do?
Suck it up and realize that technology advances? I mean really. What about people who buy video cards just before a new wave is released, or people who buy new CPUs just before a price cut? It happens. What you bought yesterday will always be more expensive and inferior to what people bought today. Buying technology is always a game of timing where you can get the maximum value for the lowest price. There will always be "losers" in this game (of course these "losers" are playing right now while Elite owners...well, don't exist yet). But if you're an early adopter who hasn't figured this out, you're in no position to complain.

[apokalipze2]

Bullshit. Flow is a piece of shit (I've written essays on this, perhaps I'll post them later), and the tilting is shit. Have you tried playing Virtua Tennis 3 with it? It's bullshit. The claims that you PS3 fanboys don't miss rumble are all bullshit, and you know it.The tilting doesn't work that well that's the problem.

[PanzerNinja]

Bullshit. Flow is a piece of shit (I've written essays on this, perhaps I'll post them later), and the tilting is shit. Have you tried playing Virtua Tennis 3 with it? It's bullshit. The claims that you PS3 fanboys don't miss rumble are all bullshit, and you know it.

I don't know that Flow is a POS, I mean, my 9 year old loves it. But I do agree with you on missing rumble. It would add a lot to Resistance and Motorstorm. Hopefully later this year when the dualshake becomes the dualshock again they'll be able to update the launch games with the rumble feature. As far as the Elite goes, I don't really need 120 gb, but I would like the hdmi connection.

[galvatron2k1]

And you just listed alternatives for everything except HDMI. It didn't have HDMI when you bought it, but it was still worth $3-400 to you. It's not going to stop being worth that because there's now a more expensive model with more options.

Suck it up and realize that technology advances? I mean really. What about people who buy video cards just before a new wave is released, or people who buy new CPUs just before a price cut? It happens. What you bought yesterday will always be more expensive and inferior to what people bought today. Buying technology is always a game of timing where you can get the maximum value for the lowest price. There will always be "losers" in this game (of course these "losers" are playing right now while Elite owners...well, don't exist yet). But if you're an early adopter who hasn't figured this out, you're in no position to complain.

When I bought it, it couldn't do 1080p which is fine. Microsoft actually gave us a great surprise there, but then the VGA is washed out so no benefit for me and my TV is not 1080p compatible with component. So I lose, I get it. However, if I would have known that HDMI was coming when I bought it... then it would be another story.

I fully understand that technology advances, but at the same time, technology gets CHEAPER. When a new PC or video card comes out, the previous high end model takes a price drop because it is less desirable. I don't see either happening here with the 360 and when it comes to consoles, this is the first time I have seen an upgrade cost more than the original was priced at.

I'm going to put this argument to bed because it's pointless to argue. I feel screwed and there is nothing anybody can say to me that is going to change that. I know I'm not the only one. You can call me stupid, moronic, naive, fanboyish, whatever. I understand that Microsoft owes us nothing but on the same note, I don't owe Microsoft anything either and if I choose to not purchase their future products, so be it.

I will say this, I am happy that the "upgrade plan" is being talked about by their company and IF they decide to offer upgrades to those of us that bought the console the first time around, it would definately elevate them in my eyes and would put them as the clear leader in the console race (in my opinion). We'll wait and see...

[Apossum]

Bullshit. Flow is a piece of shit (I've written essays on this, perhaps I'll post them later), and the tilting is shit. Have you tried playing Virtua Tennis 3 with it? It's bullshit. The claims that you PS3 fanboys don't miss rumble are all bullshit, and you know it.


Thanks for your opinion (notice how I didn't write fact) and remember-- just because you suck doesn't mean the controller does.

my 8 year old nephew and 6 year old niece have no problem with Flow and have unlocked a bunch of the creatures for me. :rofl:
I haven't tried VT3 with it and I'm not surprised that it's possible to poorly implement it in a game (look for more examples on the Wii and the DS.)
Thanks for telling me I secretly miss rumble and that I'm lying about not missing it. :roll:

:rofl:


This thread's great. You've got a ton of PS3 fanboy's in here arguing endlessly because its their first chance to get back at everyone for trashing on the PS3's overinflated price. I think the really funny part is that aside from them, almost no one is posting in this thread cause "NOBODY GIVES A SHIT." You see, we've already got our 360's that manage to play some damn good games and none of us give a shit about HDMI or an over-priced bigger harddrive.

Why don't you guys go troll the Wii forums now and complain about how that system is crippled too and would cost so much more than the PS3 if you could upgrade it?

Oh, and by the way, the price gap between the elite and PS3 is still $120 so I'm not entirely sure how you guys can say its still a better value. And before you say it, If you're buying a 360 for high def movies the Premium unit hooks up to the HD-DVD add-on just fine.


you had a perfectly cool "i'm not a part of this but I'm making fun you all" thing going on until that last paragraph. :lol:

[-Never4ever-]

Thanks for your opinion (notice how I didn't write fact) and remember-- just because you suck doesn't mean the controller does.

my 8 year old nephew and 6 year old niece have no problem with Flow and have unlocked a bunch of the creatures for me. :rofl:
I haven't tried VT3 with it and I'm not surprised that it's possible to poorly implement it in a game (look for more examples on the Wii and the DS.)
Thanks for telling me I secretly miss rumble and that I'm lying about not missing it. :roll:




you had a perfectly cool "i'm not a part of this but I'm making fun you all" thing going on until that last paragraph. :lol:

Coming from the person who thinks his opinion is fact? Simply amazing.

As for rumble, I stopped caring when Nintendo released the Wavebird. Hell, half the time I turn rumble off.

[gunm]

Now it's the 360 that's getting the price point backlash, how ironic.

There's still the Premium and Core models out there to choose from. Granted it's all turning very Vista-ish with all the different models and price points, but at least there's still a choice.

Anyway, to those raging against the high prices, the price will eventually come down. There's almost always a premium to be paid if you want to be the early adopter.

[Punk_Raven]

I think the price for the 120gig hardrive is a little steep. I might just return mine now and then pay the 80 bucks for updated hardware

[jeffreyjrose]

:rofl:


This thread's great. You've got a ton of PS3 fanboy's in here arguing endlessly because its their first chance to get back at everyone for trashing on the PS3's overinflated price. I think the really funny part is that aside from them, almost no one is posting in this thread cause "NOBODY GIVES A SHIT." You see, we've already got our 360's that manage to play some damn good games and none of us give a shit about HDMI or an over-priced bigger harddrive.

Why don't you guys go troll the Wii forums now and complain about how that system is crippled too and would cost so much more than the PS3 if you could upgrade it?

Oh, and by the way, the price gap between the elite and PS3 is still $120 so I'm not entirely sure how you guys can say its still a better value. And before you say it, If you're buying a 360 for high def movies the Premium unit hooks up to the HD-DVD add-on just fine.

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[Kendal]

So the surprise was that I can keep my none HDMI 360 and pay $100 more to "upgrade" my 360 with a bigger HDD than buy the HDMI Black 360(with a bigger cock than the white 360). Great surprise...

[jer7583]

I just think this is so stupid on Microsoft's part because now johnny madden buyer is going to go into best buy, and see a $20 price difference between the 360 and "Dat PStriple" and go for the name recognition and image. I guess those morons would have bought playstation anyway, but this makes it even easier.

MS should be distancing themselves from Sony's price in every way! How does that not make sense?? They've got the software lineup, they've got the hardware, they've got the resources, just lower the price!

Sony's going to stroll into first because of their ignorance and stupidity, and everyone's going to enjoy their 3D youtube/myspace garbage dump of pop culture. Fuck.

Let's hope it doesn't turn out that way.

[Brak]

[Insert PS3 Propaganda]
Your recent Xbox 360 revolt is funny.

Funny because you used to own one.

Funny because you used to mildly bitch about the Xbox 360 while you owned one.

Funny because you spend $400 to play Dead or Alive 4.

Funny because you're now trying to sway away from your poor purchasing decision with bold video game opinions.

[MrGranger]

I guess I'm in the minority who don't need the upgrade yet. I am doing fine with the HD space I have so far and don't have the TV to use the upgraded signal. By the time I upgrade my TV and the games are larger they'll probably be on Xbox 360 version 3.

[swetooth9]

Your recent Xbox 360 revolt is funny.

Funny because you used to own one.

Funny because you used to mildly bitch about the Xbox 360 while you owned one.

Funny because you spend $400 to play Dead or Alive 4.

Funny because you're now trying to sway away from your poor purchasing decision with bold video game opinions.

heh, i noticed that too

[A Happy Panda]

Anyway, to those raging against the high prices, the price will eventually come down. There's almost always a premium to be paid if you want to be the early adopter.

Well said sir. No one forced any of you people who are bitching and complaining to be an early adopter of the 360. Now you want to raise hell because you bought a console at launch, and then 18 MONTHS LATER, a new package comes out and you feel left out? Cry about it. Sorry. Companies love money.

Also I liked Brak's post. :)

Did he really spend $400 to play DOA 4???

[tayaf69]

So here is my complaint for the new system and price of HD...

I can go out and buy a WESTERN DIGITAL 300 GB for $80-120 and it works fine. WTF is the Xbox 120 GB HD almost $200??? I hate Bill Gates. I really do.

[captmurphy]

So here is my complaint for the new system and price of HD...

I can go out and buy a WESTERN DIGITAL 300 GB for $80-120 and it works fine. WTF is the Xbox 120 GB HD almost $200??? I hate Bill Gates. I really do.

Not a 2.5" drive.

[lanzarlaluna]

Not a 2.5" drive.
Newegg has a handful of 2.5" 120GB HDDs for ~$100.

[captmurphy]

300 gb > 120 gb

[Dogpatch]

This thread is friggin nuts. I bought my 360 a month ago. Am I upset that a newer one is coming out, hell no. Just bad timing on my part. Does it take away from what I have now? NO. I agree that MS is screwing it over with the pricing (esp. the harddrive).

Last time I checked, I like to play games. The Elite does not change that. When a few more games come out for the PS3, I will pick that up. Not for the blu-ray, for the games. Blu-ray is a nice bonus, just not the overall reason for me buying a PS3.

Just my 2 cents on the subject. Now back to my Wii and Zelda.

[Indiana]

$180 for the hard drive sucks. I might as well sell my existing 360 and buy a new one. That would be a better deal that $180 for a bigger hard drive.

[Limegreen]

I can't believe the thread got past post 10 in the first place futhermore that it's still going !

[FriskyTanuki]

I wouldn't say never! MG started on the NES after all.
Actually, it started on the MSX. The NES version was a port of the MSX version.

[zionoverfire]

heh, i noticed that too

I think quite a number of us have.

[OGHowie]

Insert Xbox Elite defense about how you're not forced to buy anything.

[PyroGamer]

I'm guessing today's announcement has to do with the Zune. Maybe an 80GB model.

I suppose it could be something Vista related, too.

[craven_fiend]

I think quite a number of us have.

I'd be surprised if anyone hasn't noticed it. :D

[GizmoGC]

PS3 fanboys still trying to prove there system is super awesome? Yawn

[zewone]

Tonight's announcement has nothing to do with gaming at all. It's a new web browser for Windows Mobile users. I'm downloading it now.

http://on10.net/Blogs/larry/exclusive-video-new-mobile-web-browser--deepfish/

[VipFREAK]

Yay... that does jack fucking squat for me. xD

[OGHowie]

Pretty damn lame. Tried to dl the browser for my Moto Q and it says there are no more downloads available and will email me when they make more space. Wtf.....

[Weedy649]

Guys dont worry, i just heard that at 9 pm cst, midnight est, cheapyd has a huge surprise for us!

he shall delete this thread and we'll pretend all of this never happened....SURPRISE!

seriously though those were so lack luster...to make us wait for midnight to give nothing but bullshit reminds me of the times they wait until like monday to tell us theres no XBLA game for that week.

[defiance_17]

I guess I'm in the minority who don't need the upgrade yet. I am doing fine with the HD space I have so far and don't have the TV to use the upgraded signal. By the time I upgrade my TV and the games are larger they'll probably be on Xbox 360 version 3.

The minority in this thread, perhaps, but look at the post-quality. Do you honestly want to lump yourself in with the likes of gizmo?

I promise, the majority of people who already own a 360 (and who don't, unfortunately), don't give much of a shit overall. I have my 360, it works fine, it looks fine, it plays the same games...this decision has no impact on me.

[RedvsBlue]

Nope... they have not but have offered alternatives, all at considerably less money that originally paid for the console.

PS2 and GC online - buy an adapter.

Xbox, PS2, Gamecube hi-def - buy the hi-def cables.

X360 bigger HD - buy the 120GB HD

X360 1080p through HDMI - screwed.

And as I asked before, when a console was redesigned or "upgraded", did it come out for a higher price than the system originally launched?

And for that matter... what of those people that bought the damn console at the beginning of 2007? They have had it 4 months. What are they supposed to do?

Ahh but you're forgetting about the later Genesis models that had RCA output cables when the original models could only connect you your TV through an RF adapter. Pretty sure that's the exact same thing going on here.

[RedvsBlue]

you had a perfectly cool "i'm not a part of this but I'm making fun you all" thing going on until that last paragraph. :lol:

I figured I'd cover my bases and get to all the topics that you and all the other PS3 fanboys have been going on about in here.

And along those lines, as far as an "upgrade discount/rebate" goes, you people that are whining about this should give PC gaming a spin sometime...

[geko29]

Ahh but you're forgetting about the later Genesis models that had RCA output cables when the original models could only connect you your TV through an RF adapter. Pretty sure that's the exact same thing going on here.

I had a launch Genesis, and with the addition of a $9 cable (DIN on one end, yellow/white on the other) it did composite output. Combine that with a minijack to white/red RCA hooked into the headphone jack on the front, and I had composite video AND stereo sound.

Maybe later models added RCA output directly on the console, but the capability was always there, albeit with a proprietary cable. That's not unusual, however, as the subsequent SNES and nearly all later consoles except the first few versions of the PS1 supported only proprietary cables.

[Apossum]

I figured I'd cover my bases and get to all the topics that you and all the other PS3 fanboys have been going on about in here.

And along those lines, as far as an "upgrade discount/rebate" goes, you people that are whining about this should give PC gaming a spin sometime...


It's not like I'll never own another 360...the fact that I think this new system is a complete rip compared to the PS3 has nothing to do with fanboyism.

I've been breaking it down to pure cost analysis, I'm not saying the new 360 sucks because Sony is better. nobody here wants to admit the basic fact that there are more things inside the PS3 for less cost when you compare the two value-wise. and when I mention those things, they somehow don't count as a feature or you get with the system?

[benjamouth]

I think not including wireless access out of the box on the Elite was a mistake, I don't think there's anything about the Elite that is going to make current 360 owners upgrade. This one is really only for new adopters.

Don't particularly want to talk about the PS3 in an Xbox 360 forum on a topic that has nothing to do with it but you are getting a lot for your money there's no doubt about that, and by realising the Elite MS are really closing the gap between the two in a "value" comparison.

However I don't think it's just the perception that the PS3 is more expense thats keeping PS3's on the shelves.

[Damian]

Actually, it started on the MSX. The NES version was a port of the MSX version.
MSX2. Somewhat interesting to the topic, the MSX was a Microsoft led standardization of home computers. The MSX name comes from the Microsoft Extended Basic the machines came with in ROM.

So...to be perfectly literal, Metal Gear originated on a Microsoft platform.

[galvatron2k1]

Somebody should just really end this thread! I think it is too funny that anybody against Microsoft on this new console is labeled a Sony fanboy. I know some are, but then there are others that have spent more on this console, games, and accessories than a PS3.

Now, all I said to begin with is I feel ripped off. If you don't, that is fine. If you have no need for the additional features, specifically HDMI, then that is fine. But just realize that some of us do feel a little ripped, specifically me and the entire HDMI issue.

Did some of us buy the system on day 1? Yes. Was it worth $400? Obviously because we bought it. But at the same time, when I bought it, there was not a 1080p feature, nor were there any reports that this was going to be added.

Now, the hidden chip that was activated was great, but my 1080p capable tv does not support it through component or VGA. If I had known that this feature was there the entire time, then I would not have bought it AT THAT TIME because I would have known eventually they would have needed to go to HDMI to broadcast the signal.

But they did unlock the 1080p features and also when asked about HDMI, they said that if the market dictates it, then we will look into implementing it. Mind you, this was at least a year into the console's life and they made no mention of an additional *ELITE* console. Also, the *PREMIUM* was even marketed as the console for hard core gamers. The reward site quizzes even explained for retailers to market it as such. Furthermore, implementing HDMI, I thought, would mean an additional accessory such as a cable or adapter that would be available. And for all those that say technology advances, HDMI was already out when Microsoft released the 360. So, this was not a major breakthrough... people already knew it existed, but not for the 360 and it's hidden 1080 chip. A real technology advancement would be to make an adapter that enables an HDMI cable to display 1080p through their a/v output.

Now, I am fully aware of consoles changing and going through revisions and being released again. But never has a console ever been released without an alternative (adapters, add-ons) OR been released at a higher price than the original (in the US, I know they have in Japan).

I think this is the very first time I actually feel totally ripped off because if this information was available to me, there is no way I would have bought this console. Does it make my current one obsolete? No. Will I still play it? Yes. Consider it lesson learned! Next time Microsoft releases any type of hardware or add-on, I will make sure to wait because I now know that this is not there best product. I may not buy it at all. But nobody can tell me that many people that supported it from the beginning should not feel a little ticked off about this if they care about these features.

It is a great solution for many that don't care to buy a second console or have not bought one to begin with. For those that also say that this is the console of choice, what choice to people that want 1080p over HDMI that only have the need for 1 Xbox 360 console have that are only willing to pay $200?

[Apossum]

Somebody should just really end this thread! I think it is too funny that anybody against Microsoft on this new console is labeled a Sony fanboy. I know some are, but then there are others that have spent more on this console, games, and accessories than a PS3.

Now, all I said to begin with is I feel ripped off. If you don't, that is fine. If you have no need for the additional features, specifically HDMI, then that is fine. But just realize that some of us do feel a little ripped, specifically me and the entire HDMI issue.

Did some of us buy the system on day 1? Yes. Was it worth $400? Obviously because we bought it. But at the same time, when I bought it, there was not a 1080p feature, nor were there any reports that this was going to be added.

Now, the hidden chip that was activated was great, but my 1080p capable tv does not support it through component or VGA. If I had known that this feature was there the entire time, then I would not have bought it AT THAT TIME because I would have known eventually they would have needed to go to HDMI to broadcast the signal.

But they did unlock the 1080p features and also when asked about HDMI, they said that if the market dictates it, then we will look into implementing it. Mind you, this was at least a year into the console's life and they made no mention of an additional *ELITE* console. Also, the *PREMIUM* was even marketed as the console for hard core gamers. The reward site quizzes even explained for retailers to market it as such. Furthermore, implementing HDMI, I thought, would mean an additional accessory such as a cable or adapter that would be available. And for all those that say technology advances, HDMI was already out when Microsoft released the 360. So, this was not a major breakthrough... people already knew it existed, but not for the 360 and it's hidden 1080 chip. A real technology advancement would be to make an adapter that enables an HDMI cable to display 1080p through their a/v output.

Now, I am fully aware of consoles changing and going through revisions and being released again. But never has a console ever been released without an alternative (adapters, add-ons) OR been released at a higher price than the original (in the US, I know they have in Japan).

I think this is the very first time I actually feel totally ripped off because if this information was available to me, there is no way I would have bought this console. Does it make my current one obsolete? No. Will I still play it? Yes. Consider it lesson learned! Next time Microsoft releases any type of hardware or add-on, I will make sure to wait because I now know that this is not there best product. I may not buy it at all. But nobody can tell me that many people that supported it from the beginning should not feel a little ticked off about this if they care about these features.

It is a great solution for many that don't care to buy a second console or have not bought one to begin with. For those that also say that this is the console of choice, what choice to people that want 1080p over HDMI that only have the need for 1 Xbox 360 console have that are only willing to pay $200?



tl,dr

[Brak]

nobody here wants to admit the basic fact that there are more things inside the PS3 for less cost when you compare the two value-wise. and when I mention those things, they somehow don't count as a feature or you get with the system?
No.

When you mention those things, you mention them in a way where the PS3 is absolutely better than the Xbox 360 -- for that simple reason.

You buy a PS3 to play PS3 games; you buy an Xbox 360 to play Xbox 360 games. This is up to taste, and the true reason to say why a console is better... to you -- not to everyone else, as an absolute.

The PS3 is an incredible deal, in my opinion. Blu-Ray DVDs players cost more than the PS3... but, as it stands, for me, the PS3 is too much for a video game console; and there are no games, at this time, that would give me an excuse to purchase one, as it pertains to my tastes.

The 360, on the other hand, has titles I want to play, along with a fair price for a video game console.

Now, I know that Blu-Ray can effect the video game industry, as it holds more data, etc... but with games becoming multi-platform, games will be rounded off so it can appear on other consoles. Again, this supports "Buy a PS3 to play PS3 games", as those will be the only titles that will take advantage of the disc capacity. (Although other consoles can just have multiple discs for lengthy titles.)

Oh, and your recent revolt is mostly funny because it's recent. A poor purchasing decision if you buy a console that you're not going to play. Right?

Edit: And I think the Elite is bullshit / a rip-off, for the record.

[Apossum]

No.

When you mention those things, you mention them in a way where the PS3 is absolutely better than the Xbox 360 -- for that simple reason.

You buy a PS3 to play PS3 games; you buy an Xbox 360 to play Xbox 360 games. This is up to taste, and the true reason to say why a console is better... to you -- not to everyone else, as an absolute.

The PS3 is an incredible deal, in my opinion. Blu-Ray DVDs players cost more than the PS3... but, as it stands, for me, the PS3 is too much for a video game console; and there are no games, at this time, that would give me an excuse to purchase one, as it pertains to my tastes.

The 360, on the other hand, has titles I want to play, along with a fair price for a video game console.

Now, I know that Blu-Ray can effect the video game industry, as it holds more data, etc... but with games becoming multi-platform, games will be rounded off so it can appear on other consoles. Again, this supports "Buy a PS3 to play PS3 games", as those will be the only titles that will take advantage of the disc capacity. (Although other consoles can just have multiple discs for lengthy titles.)

Oh, and your recent revolt is mostly funny because it's recent. A poor purchasing decision if you buy a console that you're not going to play. Right?

Edit: And I think the Elite is bullshit / a rip-off, for the record.


Don't put so many words in my mouth or assume so much. I haven't mentioned games and I'm not trying to get people to think the PS3 is a better system. I enjoy the games on it a lot, but I'm actively avoiding discussion of that...

anyway, as I already said, I'm talking purely about the value of the technology cramped into two pieces of plastic. the system is better technology wise. that's a fact no matter which way you look at it. and it's a steal next to the elite...that's all. to bring the 360 up to the PS3 level of techology, you get buttraped by MS. I don't care if someone likes 360 games better or if they would never use blu-ray, their personal opinion is beside the point. You like games and only buy systems for games? That's great. Not a lot of people base their console purchase purely on games these days...if they're happy with the game selection, then they look towards the extras.

for the record, I think the 80gb ps3 idea is just as ridiculous...MS moves up to the PS3 price point, now Sony is going to go even higher.

but whatever, premiums should be below $300 on ebay pretty soon, so there is an upside to all of this :)

[spoo]

Don't put so many words in my mouth or assume so much. I haven't mentioned games and I'm not trying to get people to think the PS3 is a better system. I enjoy the games on it a lot, but I'm actively avoiding discussion of that...

anyway, as I already said, I'm talking purely about the value of the technology cramped into two pieces of plastic. the system is better technology wise. that's a fact no matter which way you look at it. and it's a steal next to the elite...that's all. to bring the 360 up to the PS3 level of techology, you get buttraped by MS. I don't care if someone likes 360 games better or if they would never use blu-ray, their personal opinion is beside the point. You like games and only buy systems for games? That's great. Not a lot of people base their console purchase purely on games these days...if they're happy with the game selection, then they look towards the extras.

for the record, I think the 80gb ps3 idea is just as ridiculous...MS moves up to the PS3 price point, now Sony is going to go even higher.

but whatever, premiums should be below $300 on ebay pretty soon, so there is an upside to all of this :)

With all that said why are you pointing your finger at MS and not Nintendo?

The price for the Elite is ridiculous but I don't see the price staying @ $480 for more then four to five months. MS is due for a price cut soon...

[Apossum]

With all that said why are you pointing your finger at MS and not Nintendo?

The price for the Elite is ridiculous but I don't see the price staying @ $480 for more then four to five months. MS is due for a price cut soon...


I'm not really a gameboy gamer and handhelds are different. they don't cost 100s of dollars. Selling a DS for $80, then paying $50 more for a smaller system with really nice, bright screens wasn't hard to swallow. You can still buy a DS lite and a ton of used DS games for the price of a separate 120gb MS HDD :lol: anyway, yeah, it's not a bad trend in handhelds, it would be an awful trend in expensive consoles.

[spoo]

I'm not really a gameboy gamer and handhelds are different. they don't cost 100s of dollars. Selling a DS for $80, then paying $50 more for a smaller system with really nice, bright screens wasn't hard to swallow. You can still buy a DS lite and a ton of used DS games for the price of a separate 120gb MS HDD :lol: anyway, yeah, it's not a bad trend in handhelds, it would be an awful trend in expensive consoles.
I see your point there but I was talking about the "value" of the Wii vs. 360 vs. PS3. The value of the Wii is insane that I paid $250 for it, sure it is half the price of the PS3 but it is yet to show me anything besides a cool new controller, wireless (but no ethernet port) and WS support over the GCN. But it cost 2.5 times as much.


value of the technology cramped into two pieces of plastic

[Apossum]

I see your point there but I was talking about the "value" of the Wii vs. 360 vs. PS3. The value of the Wii is insane that I paid $250 for it, sure it is half the price of the PS3 but it is yet to show me anything besides a cool new controller, wireless (but no ethernet port) and WS support over the GCN. But it cost 2.5 times as much.

That's a tough call...you are pretty much just paying for the R+D behind the wii remote. When you look at it compared to the others, you expect less stuff in there b/c the other two systems are so expensive. if you look at the development of the system and the fact that it's a gamecube with a cool controller and slightly boosted specs, you wonder if they couldn't have priced it cheaper. They could have-- it was profitable right out the door. but there's the controller cost issue...I dunno, it's hard to compare. it comes down to the games. If you spend $510 to get the system and 4 complete controller sets, Classic controllers included, there better be a shitload of games to support it.

but what's with it having a DVD drive, but not being able to play DVDs? They could've at least thrown people a bone there :lol: