How the PS3 Is Really Doing

[H.Cornerstone]

http://www.n4g.com/ps3/News-33555.aspx

interesting video that summarizes everything we have been saying on the board.

[dallow]

Best stat:

First four months sales after respective launches.

360: 1.02 Million
PS3: 1.06 Million

It's important for two reasons.

1) Selling more, obviously.
2) Selling more, with competition all around them by an established 360 with cool games. And hot as hell Nintendo Wii with super cheap price point.

360 had nothing to fight against (in terms of next gen).
PS3 has had to battle through 2 giants, and tons of negative press.

EDIT:
I've thought of a 3rd thingy.
Don't forget the bloated price of the PS3. Put that into the mix and yeah, PS3 is doing fine. Case closed... or is it?

[DarkNessBear]

Good view.

[dallow]

Don't really care about the rest of the video.

I thought it was the LittleBigPlanet music playing in the background and thought, man, it sounds a lot like The Go! Team.

And it was. I should listen to that CD again. It bored me after a month.

[Spades22]

Best stat:


2) Selling more, with competition all around them by an established 360 with cool games. And hot as hell Nintendo Wii with super cheap price point.

I think that 2nd point could kinda be flicked around too. I know for myself and many, actually all of my friends, there was no reason to buy a 360 considering PS2 and GC were still mainstream I guess and games were constantly being released, and the 360 didn't have much good games to buy at all. Now since all the consoles have been released, more people including myself and half my friends have all gotten next gen consoles since that's what games will now be made for...if you know what I'm saying.

Like...there was no reason to buy any next gen console a year ago, now there is...I'm actually surprised the 360 sold as well as it did and that the PS3 is so far behind. I really thought the PS3 would sell more...even with it's high price.

[dallow]

I think that 2nd point could kinda be flicked around too. I know for myself and many, actually all of my friends, there was no reason to buy a 360 considering PS2 and GC were still mainstream I guess and games were constantly being released, and the 360 didn't have much good games to buy at all. Now since all the consoles have been released, more people including myself and half my friends have all gotten next gen consoles since that's what games will now be made for...if you know what I'm saying.

Like...there was no reason to buy any next gen console a year ago, now there is...I'm actually surprised the 360 sold as well as it did and that the PS3 is so far behind. I really thought the PS3 would sell more...even with it's high price.
You said 360 didn't really have any good games early on (save for a few of course), but, same thing for PS3.
They're both still babies, still being nurtured.
Neither system has matured into what they can be yet.

And I don't remember GC being that mainstream, they were really third fiddle here in America.
Didn't MS kill the XBOX as soon as the 360 came out?

There are still lots of games coming out for PS2, and have in the recent months.

[177adjen17]

HA ha... that made me laugh ^_^x

[Spades22]

Ya but the good games wasn't the point of what I was overall trying to say...I was saying that in defense to the other post about 360 HAVING good games now.

Hmm how can I say what I was TRYING to say in simple terms...

Ok so:
- Xbox/PS2/GC games <--were all mainstream since thats what there was
- Xbox 360 came out, PS2 and GC games were in production and future ones were in the works, everyone was excited about them and 360 games just weren't impressive.
- Cause of this, what I think is that many people just forgot about next gen as I did and many others where I live, since there were so many good games planned or just made for these new systems and the price tag seemed extremely high at that time especially.
- Then the Wii and PS3 eventually came out...sure PS2 games are still being made, but I doubt as many would say they're excited for the PS2 games announced now than they were the PS2 games announced when just the 360 was out.
- So...the Wii and PS3 came and GC was forgotten unlike before, opening all the Nintendo owners to a new system for one, Orig. Xbox owners had nothing to play, and PS2 owners realized their console wouldn't be getting as many good games anymore.
-GC, PS2, and Xbox owners NOW saw a reason to buy a next gen console, and former GC owners may have migrated to PS3/Xbox360 cause GC was so boring last gen.
- Therefore more gamers had the decision to choose a next gen console than there were when the 360 was released.

Makes perfect sense to me...hahaha, the difference is that now there is nothing to really look forward to except next gen titles...so people want those new consoles for those games. Before there were still good, cheap games, and many gamers' friends never moved to a 360...

I wish I could talk in nerd and describe it better, but really all I do on PC is play the odd game, and I've only ever had, at most, 30 games bought in an entire "gen" of consoles. (Thats added up...not 30 for each console)

[gunm]

2) Selling more, with competition all around them by an established 360 with cool games. And hot as hell Nintendo Wii with super cheap price point.


Except there weren't as many 360 consoles available after four months. How can you sell more when you don't have as much to sell?

[TimPV3]

Except there weren't as many 360 consoles available after four months. How can you sell more when you don't have as much to sell?I was able to walk into any store and find a 360 as early as the end of February. There were probably the same amount of 360s, just scattered around the world. Sony had all their PS3's sent to Japan and US, as they didn't launch worldwide until recently, which should be point number 4.

[NamPaehc]

Except there weren't as many 360 consoles available after four months. How can you sell more when you don't have as much to sell?

What you quated, think was trying to saythat the PS3 sold really well, even with the XB and Wii out on the market. And with the XB, there are already "Good games" and plenty of units floating around so it is more or less "established".

[NamPaehc]

I thought it was the LittleBigPlanet music playing in the background and thought, man, it sounds a lot like The Go! Team..

At the end of the video, I think it DOES say it is those people who made the music.

[Ugamer_X]

Stupid video.

It's no better than any of the numerous videos bashing the PS3.

I'm amazed at the amount of time we spend arguing over dumb videos made by prepubescent nerds with a loose familiarity of a basic movie editor and a few statistics.

[TimPV3]

I'm amazed at the amount of time we spend arguing over dumb videos made by prepubescent nerds with a loose familiarity of a basic movie editor and a few statistics.I'm amazed at the amount of time we spend arguing over dumb posts made by prepubescent nerds with a loose familiarity of a basic spell checking program and a few statistics.

[Zoglog]

Typical Fanboy video, some points are correct, some are false.

Some things left out

- The controllers keep on crapping out
- Home IS not yet Launched so any speculation on that is tarded
- No mention on the quality for Sony's tech support to mirror the Xbox 360's
- And also fails to talk about all the great 1st party and 3rd party titles exclusive to the 360 as well

The overall message is true though, idiots have been overestimating the demise of the ps3 like the morons they are.

[Ugamer_X]

I'm amazed at the amount of time we spend arguing over dumb posts made by prepubescent nerds with a loose familiarity of a basic spell checking program and a few statistics.
I'm afraid we can't give them that much credit.

[jer7583]

With Sony's brand name and incredible dominance last generation, I don't think it can be anything but a huge victory for Microsoft to see that their console(which was limited in stock much more than PS3 during its first four months) sold so comparably to the PS3.

It's a good thing for Microsoft, and a sobering thing for Sony, not necessarily bad, but they will have a much more realistic competitor chomping at their heels this generation.

All these numbers show is how close things are. Sony really should have blown them away out of the gate with the Sony loyal PS2 fanbase behind them, but they are making the transition from PS2 to PS3 much more difficult than it should be, not to mention lacking good, unique software to motivate purchases. $130 to suddenly $600? That's going to happen very slowly, and it gives MS even more time to snatch away those PS2 owners that will define the current generation's top seller.

[mykevermin]

With Sony's brand name and incredible dominance last generation, I don't think it can be anything but a huge victory for Microsoft to see that their console(which was limited in stock much more than PS3 during its first four months) sold so comparably to the PS3.

It's a good thing for Microsoft, and a sobering thing for Sony, not necessarily bad, but they will have a much more realistic competitor chomping at their heels this generation.

All these numbers show is how close things are. Sony really should have blown them away out of the gate with the Sony loyal PS2 fanbase behind them, but they are making the transition from PS2 to PS3 much more difficult than it should be, not to mention lacking good, unique software to motivate purchases. $130 to suddenly $600? That's going to happen very slowly, and it gives MS even more time to snatch away those PS2 owners that will define the current generation's top seller.

Make your mind up. You're one of those people who have been overstating the demise of the PS3 since day fucking 1 (okay, to be fair, it was closer to day fucking 9, but I digress...). If the PS3 is not selling, then you can't, by comparison, act as if the same sales (and let's not bicker about a few thousand units - it's a statistical dead heat at that point) which mean Sony is about to go out of business, have no idea what they're doing, and make them the laughingstock of the game industry, suddenly mean that Microsoft has immense goodwill, knows what they're doing, and have awesome sales to be proud of. In so doing, you're understating Xbox sales last generation. They never surpassed PS2 because PS2 beat them to market by 12 months - but sales never slumped on either system (the same can be said for both current-gen consoles).

If you look at US, EU, and JP sales, with the exception of Nintendo, things are really playing themselves out in damn near the same way they did the last generation. The 360 is slightly ahead, but that's only because it can be. That was an option it did not have the last time around.

I understand your point about MS sales, but you're really ignoring the sales gap b/w Sony and MS in the US last generation; it wasn't as massive as you think. Now, if you were talking about Nokia's sales of the "N-Gage 2" selling comparable with the PS3, then perhaps you have a point...

[benjamouth]

OMG, that was god-awful.

This fan boy crap must end, I remember once nearly getting into a fight when I was at school over a "Sega Genesis is better than the SNES" argument. That was a dark time in my life, I'm not going back there.

Just be happy with whatever console you buy, as long as you're happy who cares what other people think.

We must stop this madness now. I read another post today where someone said "they would dance on the grave of the PS3 yet". Come on people, COME ON !!!!

[panasonic]

Typical Fanboy video, some points are correct, some are false.

Some things left out

- The controllers keep on crapping out
- Home IS not yet Launched so any speculation on that is tarded
- No mention on the quality for Sony's tech support to mirror the Xbox 360's
- And also fails to talk about all the great 1st party and 3rd party titles exclusive to the 360 as well

The overall message is true though, idiots have been overestimating the demise of the ps3 like the morons they are.

WTF controllers keep crapping out? Mine doesn't you probably need to get another or change the ps3.

[evilmax17]

There's fuzzy terminology being thrown around all over the place.

There's a big difference between units sold to retailers from the manufacturer (units "shipped"), and units sold to consumers from the retailer. Sony typically cites units shipped, and pays no attention to what happens to their systems once they are out in the wild. I don't know where Microsoft gets its figures, but if anyone has any sources, feel free.

This video overlooks the overwhelming anecdotal evidence that we have seen with both console launches, which I would argue holds more validity than any of the numbers that have gone through the PR washing machine. You couldn't find a 360 in the wild until just about this time last year, and there are numerous posts from people all around the country to back that up.

The PS3 has been easy to find since a few weeks after its launch, and are currently well stocked all across the country. Again, this has been anecdotally verified by numerous people in varied locations.

So despite a huge shortage of 360s, and an over-abundance of PS3s, they still manage to sell the same amount of systems. Given the situation, I'd call that a victory for the 360.

[Darkside Hazuki]

I'm amazed at the amount of time we spend arguing over dumb videos made by prepubescent nerds with a loose familiarity of a basic movie editor and a few statistics.

Well put. :applause:

[help1]

Hoarders drive up sales. I know 3 guys who bought ps3, and they bought them just to hoard them.

[jer7583]

Myke, I was under the impression that MS was ~100mil behind Sony last gen. But those numbers might be wrong.

My point was that this isn't a bad thing for either system, that they are quite equal. However, MS should be happy to be on equal ground with Sony after last gen's joke of a race.

As for the doom and gloom, I'm done with that. I want Sony to show me something worthwhile, and I'm glad MS has a competitor to destroy the overpriced, stupid Elite SKU.

[mercilessming]

I would have given credibility to the video until the end when they pulled out the stupid Blu Ray - HDDVD format figures and support call junk, then it became FanBoy "pulling at straws", a dvd movie has never been played on my PS2 and when/if I get a PS3 a blu-ray movie will never be played on it because when I move to the next move format I will have a good stand alone player for playing that format...Hence the difference in "Game Console" and "Movie Player"

[Mr. Anderson]

Hoarders drive up sales. I know 3 guys who bought ps3, and they bought them just to hoard them.

Hi, welcome to FIVE MONTHS AGO.

[dallow]

Hi, welcome to FIVE MONTHS AGO.

Hehe, yeah.

And cool, you like Wire, and I guess Big Black.

[bstan21]

Why buy a stand alone when the one you are getting is as good as, if not better than a stand alone.

That is the difference this generation, you could make a case that the PS2 DVD player was inferior. PS3 is a damn fine BR player.

[daroga]

Why buy a stand alone when the one you are getting is as good as, if not better than a stand alone.

That is the difference this generation, you could make a case that the PS2 DVD player was inferior. PS3 is a damn fine BR player.The PS2 was a pretty good player when it came out. Not top of the line, mind you, but still decent. As time went on though, the quality players got cheaper and cheaper and it became far less of a selling point and got bested by many other devices.

I'd have to imaigne something similar will end up happening to the PS3 should Blu-Ray hang around as a movie format for the console's life.

[javeryh]

I thought the title to this thread was "How the PS3 Is Really Dong" and I thought that was pretty funny.

[Thomas96]

Just like all sony products they start off expensive and then they become resonable... The ps3 is doing fine... and statistically its doing better than the xbox during the same time. Lair and Heavenly Sword need to come out, be good games, and no delays... the ps3 has ports (oblivion, nba2k, sonic) of 360 titles, and that's not good, and that's why there is a great importance on games like Lair and Heavenly Sword, because besides Resistance, they are the 3rd and 4th games, that are purely PS3, and not a port to or from the 360. Xbox didn't really get going until a year after its release when gears of war came out... all throughout 2006 for the quarters , 1, 2, and 3 360 sales were slow...

ps3 is doing well cause look, there's hardly anything other than price that you can say negative about the system. Everyone has their preference, but overall the system is performing well.

[mykevermin]

Myke, I was under the impression that MS was ~100mil behind Sony last gen. But those numbers might be wrong.

My point was that this isn't a bad thing for either system, that they are quite equal. However, MS should be happy to be on equal ground with Sony after last gen's joke of a race.

As for the doom and gloom, I'm done with that. I want Sony to show me something worthwhile, and I'm glad MS has a competitor to destroy the overpriced, stupid Elite SKU.

I think the PS2 only sold a touch over 100 million - that puts the # of Xboxes at roughly 1:2 (about 50 million).

I'm perfectly fine with competition this gen. I would have gotten a great deal more use out of the Xbox if it had been closer to the PS2 in sales (and generated more 3rd party support - damn near every multiplatform title available I bought the Xbox version of - but to regret it later, given the early model PS3/Xbox 360 BC differences).

[botticus]

I think the PS2 only sold a touch over 100 million - that puts the # of Xboxes at roughly 1:2 (about 50 million).

I'm perfectly fine with competition this gen. I would have gotten a great deal more use out of the Xbox if it had been closer to the PS2 in sales (and generated more 3rd party support - damn near every multiplatform title available I bought the Xbox version of - but to regret it later, given the early model PS3/Xbox 360 BC differences).Wait, 50 million Xboxes? It topped out at just under 25 million worldwide, compared to 21 million Cubes, and 111 million PS2s through 9/06.

http://vgchartz.com/worldcons.php?date=38961&sort=1
(yep, vgcharts.org just got hip - vgchartZ!)

[dallow]

Wait, 50 million Xboxes? It topped out at just under 25 million worldwide, compared to 21 million Cubes, and 111 million PS2s through 9/06.

http://vgchartz.com/worldcons.php?date=38961&sort=1
(yep, vgcharts.org just got hip - vgchartZ!)

Yeah, I was scratching my head on that one too Myke. Better check out the numbers.

PS2 was far and away the leader last generation.

[sarausagi]

In actual technical terms, and based on most reviews as well, the PS3 bests all of Sony's stand alone players and is faster than Samsung's. It's an excellent Blu Ray player and with the bluetooth remote it is full featured. All it is is really lacking is six channel audio outputs for its SACD playback [which it is capable of] and surround codecs. However, most people won't use that and will opt for optical out or straight HDMI. And so far, the PS3 has had problems with oinly ONE disc, but that was for a very small release [Chronos] and it was the company's fauly not the PS3's.

Truth is, the PS3 had to compete with

the PS2 [still the best selling console]
the DS Lite [the best selling handheld]
the Wii
the Xbox 360

so I think it's done an incredible first run and I think it should get its lead back sometime soon, what you people fail to realize is Sony markets two base consoles and one portable, the Playstation brand as a whole [PS2, PS3, PSP] has more install base than the Wii or the 360 or even the DS lite [57 million consoles total in the US for PS3, PS2, and PSP] AND even more install base than the Wii, 360, and DS lite combined [22 million consoles]

Note, I am speaking US only, and as a side note, I don't know why people credit Nintendo to making gaming mainstream, maybe bringing in a new customer base [though it's honestly a small one in my opinion] but considering the amount of Playstation 2 consoles sold in the US alone, that would lead me to believe that roughly 15 percent of the population has owned a PS2 at one point in time: that seems pretty mainstream to me [considering that 5 percent penetration is enough to be mainstream these days]

[jer7583]

Oh yeah, definetly good that there's more heated competition this generation. Doesn't stop MS from raping us with the Points system and the Elite, though. (As in, have to buy more points than you'll actually want to use, and that the elite should have just been a price drop on the Premium, IMO)

[mykevermin]

Wait, 50 million Xboxes? It topped out at just under 25 million worldwide, compared to 21 million Cubes, and 111 million PS2s through 9/06.

http://vgchartz.com/worldcons.php?date=38961&sort=1
(yep, vgcharts.org just got hip - vgchartZ!)

Egads. Well, when I'm wrong, I'm *way* wrong. Duly noted.

[botticus]

Egads. Well, when I'm wrong, I'm *way* wrong. Duly noted.:lol: I was worried I was missing some reference to a hypothetical comparison or something in your post. But yeah, needless to say, there will be no console with 70% marketshare this generation. Even with a year's head start, the 360 only has 56%.

[dpatel]

I think this gen is going to be pretty interesting because of both MS and Ninty gaining a lot of ground (compared to last gen) and Sony losing it. I'd say by the end, they will each be about even. There may be a difference of several million between them, but not enough to declare a true 'winner'.

[trq]

It's just a matter of perception, no more and no less. Sony is no more going anywhere than Nintendo disappeared after the N64. Everyone expects every generation to be just like the one before it, which, hopefully we're starting to learn, is silly. Nobody dominates forever, but that doesn't mean you can't be profitable or successful.

When a guy who talks about how he's going to zoom up to the top of Mt. Everest (and in fact, did just that in the past) takes his sweet ass time getting halfway there, it SEEMS like a failure, even if halfway up the mountain isn't a bad place to be.

That said, the "but the 360 only sold so many units four months in!" isn't a valid comparison in either direction, since there are so many mitigating factors, like supply and other looming presumed-superior consoles with unknown pricepoints. Remember: when the 360 launched, nobody knew anything about the other consoles, including that $600 you'd need for a PS3. Whether the PS3 (or the 360) is gaining momentum or losing it can't be determined from a static set of numbers.

[Mechafenris]

Whether the PS3 (or the 360) is gaining momentum or losing it can't be determined from a static set of numbers.

Good point. The only way we'll know the clear "winner" this generation is when the PS4 and XBox720 come out. ;)

Still, having competition is going to prevent stagnation... because let's face it, lots of Ps2 games were shovelware throughout its lifespan... just cashing in on the installed base and trying to make a quick few million before it got out that the game was total trash... I'd rather have a few _good_ games than many _mediocre_ games any day...

And competition will hopefully produce a better crop of games, with more emphasis on being "better" than the rest (with exceptions of course), rather than mountains of shovelware, sequelitis, and boring also-rans.

[torifile]

I've had both the 360 and the PS3. IMHO, the PS3 will be around for several years longer than the 360. It's got all sorts of cutting edge technology. Say what you will about Sony, they didn't skimp on the PS3 which is going to give it legs in the long run.

[gunm]

I've had both the 360 and the PS3. IMHO, the PS3 will be around for several years longer than the 360. It's got all sorts of cutting edge technology. Say what you will about Sony, they didn't skimp on the PS3 which is going to give it legs in the long run.

Having cutting edge technology does not guarantee the product will last any longer than it's competitors.

[trq]

I've had both the 360 and the PS3. IMHO, the PS3 will be around for several years longer than the 360. It's got all sorts of cutting edge technology. Say what you will about Sony, they didn't skimp on the PS3 which is going to give it legs in the long run.

That's a factor, too, but not one I'd stake money on. Sony might say the PS3 is on the ten year plan, but when the 720 and the WiiTwo roll around, the smart money says the PS4 will be right along side them.

[Thomas96]

That's a factor, too, but not one I'd stake money on. Sony might say the PS3 is on the ten year plan, but when the 720 and the WiiTwo roll around, the smart money says the PS4 will be right along side them.



I'm wondering if Wiitwo(nice name) will have 360, or 720 like graphics... I'd like to see Sony release the ps4, last... and the next time, when you release last.. you have to have the best graphics... right now the ps3 is similar and I'm saying this assuming that even when they tap the full power of the ps3, and 360 that they both are going to have games that look just as good as the other.

[icruise]

because let's face it, lots of Ps2 games were shovelware throughout its lifespan... just cashing in on the installed base and trying to make a quick few million before it got out that the game was total trash...
I don't really think that's limited to the PS2. In fact, most of the "shovelware" tends to be multiplatform stuff (licensed games and the like). It's just something that happens when a platform has a large installed base. Just look at some of the crap that's coming out for the DS. I don't think this indicates that either Sony or Nintendo got "soft" from lack of competition. There's plenty of competition -- from other games on the same platform.

[DarkNessBear]

I think that this generation every console will fail.

And gaming will end.

This generation will be the end of gaming. Soon we will be called, Cheap Ass Movie Watchers or Book Readers.

GAMING will not exist in 5 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Grave_Addiction]

Best stat:

First four months sales after respective launches.

360: 1.02 Million
PS3: 1.06 Million

It's important for two reasons.

1) Selling more, obviously.
2) Selling more, with competition all around them by an established 360 with cool games. And hot as hell Nintendo Wii with super cheap price point.

360 had nothing to fight against (in terms of next gen).
PS3 has had to battle through 2 giants, and tons of negative press.

EDIT:
I've thought of a 3rd thingy.
Don't forget the bloated price of the PS3. Put that into the mix and yeah, PS3 is doing fine. Case closed... or is it?

I think to get a true outlook on the way things are going is to see a breakdown of sales per region.

We all know the 360 doesn't sell very well in Japan. That's a given, and most people don't even really associate the 360 as being a major player in the console business over there.

I mean, the PS3 could be selling like gangbusters in Japan but only selling a few hundred thousand in NA and Europe (I know this isn't the case), and that could skew the worldwide sales numbers a bit.

So, in my opinion, it would be better to see what the numbers look like in Japan, North America and Europe. Then, I think you'd get a more accurate picture at how well the PS3 is doing compared to its competition.

[dallow]

I think to get a true outlook on the way things are going is to see a breakdown of sales per region.

We all know the 360 doesn't sell very well in Japan. That's a given, and most people don't even really associate the 360 as being a major player in the console business over there.

I mean, the PS3 could be selling like gangbusters in Japan but only selling a few hundred thousand in NA and Europe (I know this isn't the case), and that could skew the worldwide sales numbers a bit.

So, in my opinion, it would be better to see what the numbers look like in Japan, North America and Europe. Then, I think you'd get a more accurate picture at how well the PS3 is doing compared to its competition.

You're right.

[icruise]

Well, we get Japanese sales numbers every week on the gaming blogs. It's generally the Wii selling 2-4 as many as the PS3, and the PS3 selling about 5 times as many as the 360. (That means that the Wii is outselling the 360 in Japan by a factor of about 20 to 1).

Here's the most recent one. (http://www.joystiq.com/2007/03/30/japanese-hardware-sales-mar-19-mar-25-olympic-pairing-edit/)

[anonymouswhoami]

I've had both the 360 and the PS3. IMHO, the PS3 will be around for several years longer than the 360. It's got all sorts of cutting edge technology. Say what you will about Sony, they didn't skimp on the PS3 which is going to give it legs in the long run.

If technology determines the life span of a console/handheld, then wouldn't the PSP trump the DS? I can't imagine anyone believing that development of DS games would end before the PSP.

[torifile]

If technology determines the life span of a console/handheld, then wouldn't the PSP trump the DS? I can't imagine anyone believing that development of DS games would end before the PSP. Here's the thing about the DS/PSP (or the Wii/everyone else): The Nintendo products are *different*. They compete on innovation and win handily. Dollars to donuts the Wii sells more consoles than both the 360 and PS3 combined.

The 360 and PS3, however, are competing in the power realm. There, the PS3 wins. Easily. There's absolutely nothing that recommends the 360 outside of the software (e.g., games) and we know that is going to change as the year progresses.

[panasonic]

If technology determines the life span of a console/handheld, then wouldn't the PSP trump the DS? I can't imagine anyone believing that development of DS games would end before the PSP.

PSP>all :D:D:D

[mykevermin]

:lol: I was worried I was missing some reference to a hypothetical comparison or something in your post. But yeah, needless to say, there will be no console with 70% marketshare this generation. Even with a year's head start, the 360 only has 56%.

I hope you're right: Competition is good, as EA and 2K Sports showed us. Companies fighting for shelfspace on all platforms will make me, and everyone else, a happy lad. Moreover, it will prove who has the greatest and/or most "necessary" first-party titles.

I hope you're wrong: I'm sick to death of debating the inherent superiority/inferiority of any fucking console. Except the Lynx. Man that thing sucked.

[danked]

OMG, that was god-awful.


yeah that was pretty sad

[TimPV3]

If technology determines the life span of a console/handheld, then wouldn't the PSP trump the DS? I can't imagine anyone believing that development of DS games would end before the PSP.I'm beginning to doubt the DS as a gaming platform. It seems more like a living necessity (atleast in Japan).

[captmurphy]

There, the PS3 wins. Easily. There's absolutely nothing that recommends the 360 outside of the software (e.g., games) and we know that is going to change as the year progresses.

Oh man, this post is bad. The two systems are very comparible in terms of raw horsepower... we have heard that time and time again from developers. The PS3 may have a lead in CPU but the 360's GPU is better (etc etc). So by saying the PS3 wins "easily" in the power department is just plain wrong.

Also, software is EVERYTHING. I could have Deep Blue in my house, but it isn't going to compete with the PS3 or 360 in terms of games.

"Nothing that recommends the 360 outside of the software (e.g., games)." Too bad good games are the single most important aspect of any videogame platform.

Also, since when has more power = better? There are several examples of inferior hardware doing just fine against (or in some cases, destroying) the "more powerful" competition.

PS1>N64
PS2>Gamecube
PS2>Xbox
Genesis>SNES
Gameboy>Game Gear
DS>PSP

[panasonic]

I think that this generation every console will fail.

And gaming will end.

This generation will be the end of gaming. Soon we will be called, Cheap Ass Movie Watchers or Book Readers.

GAMING will not exist in 5 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Beat you to cheap ass movie watchers. I go to the dollar theater but books i don't buy used so i guess i should start

[karkyco]

Hoarders drive up sales. I know 3 guys who bought ps3, and they bought them just to hoard them.

Yeah, and now they are selling them at a loss on craigslist and ebay. OUCH.

[Mr. Anderson]

Hehe, yeah.

And cool, you like Wire, and I guess Big Black.

Indeed! I love that Steve Albini.

[jer7583]

One thing brought up by this discussion is- How much is 360 dominating PS3 in NA for those 4 month numbers to be so even. We know the 360 sales are practically nil in Japan, but the PS3 sells quite well there. I want to see North American numbers compared.

Edit: My previous opinion stands. Comparable sales with Sony is a step up for them, and a precarious position they should be doing everything they can to hold onto. Unfortunately, the lack of price drops and the overpriced Elite package are not going to help that.

[Ugamer_X]

One thing brought up by this discussion is- How much is 360 dominating PS3 in NA for those 4 month numbers to be so even. We know the 360 sales are practically nil in Japan, but the PS3 sells quite well there. I want to see North American numbers compared.
Those numbers were for North America.

[dallow]

I think to get a true outlook on the way things are going is to see a breakdown of sales per region.

We all know the 360 doesn't sell very well in Japan. That's a given, and most people don't even really associate the 360 as being a major player in the console business over there.

I mean, the PS3 could be selling like gangbusters in Japan but only selling a few hundred thousand in NA and Europe (I know this isn't the case), and that could skew the worldwide sales numbers a bit.

So, in my opinion, it would be better to see what the numbers look like in Japan, North America and Europe. Then, I think you'd get a more accurate picture at how well the PS3 is doing compared to its competition.

Actually, never mind about you being right.
Those numbers were for the NA region only. How did I not spot that?

Which means it beat out 360 in America, and of course Japan. And Europe it seems.

[daroga]

Remember when we waited years rather than days after the consoles' full launch to figure out who "won"?

Good times.

[munch]

Remember when we waited years rather than days after the consoles' full launch to figure out who "won"?

Good times.

But it becomes obvious after 5 months, right?

[dallow]

Remember when we waited years rather than days after the consoles' full launch to figure out who "won"?

Good times.

Good old pre-internet days.

[jer7583]

Well, who "won" is a different question than who is "winning"

[mwynn]

Remember when we waited years rather than days after the consoles' full launch to figure out who "won"?

Good times.
Remember when no one cared and it was about playing games and having fun.

[icruise]

Actually, I seem to recall the Nintendo/Sega rivalry being a pretty big deal back then as well. It's just that we didn't get the deluge of news that we have now (if you were lucky you had a monthly magazine to get your info from), and random people couldn't post their opinions for the world to see. It was more limited to playgrounds and lunchrooms.

[Scorch]

What about the game factor?

360 had a few games and a handful of BC games. PS3 can play every PS1 and PS2 game out of the box. I can't count the number of people that have come in to buy GOW2 only to play it on their PS3.

[botticus]

Actually, I seem to recall the Nintendo/Sega rivalry being a pretty big deal back then as well. It's just that we didn't get the deluge of news that we have now (if you were lucky you had a monthly magazine to get your info from), and random people couldn't post their opinions for the world to see. It was more limited to playgrounds and lunchrooms.Even then, at least most of us were too young to really care that much (whereas now we should be too old to care that much :D). My cousins had a Genesis, whereas I had an SNES, and I'd be bummed they didn't have an SNES when I'd visit them a few times a year, but thought Sonic was fun, and that was it.

[chdstreak2005]

how many of those PS3s were bought to sell on ebay though....I bet about 50% of those

[whoknows]

What about the game factor?

360 had a few games and a handful of BC games. PS3 can play every PS1 and PS2 game out of the box. I can't count the number of people that have come in to buy GOW2 only to play it on their PS3.
That really is a huge huge plus and I did the same thing with GoW2.

Still...one complaint I have is while one is able to transfer their saves from a PS2/PS1 memory card adapter I dislike how you can't transfer saves from the PS3 to a PS1/PS2 memory card...not a huge deal, but I find it kinda annoying. I hope this gets fixed in the near future.

[torifile]

(The post to which I'm replying is all over the place, so I've had to organize it a bit before responding.)
Oh man, this post is bad. The two systems are very comparible in terms of raw horsepower...
we have heard that time and time again from developers.
Links, please.

The PS3 may have a lead in CPU but the 360's GPU is better (etc etc). So by saying the PS3 wins "easily" in the power department is just plain wrong.
Do you have any proof that the GPU in the 360 makes up for the vastly inferior CPU?

I don't think anyone can reasonably claim, with a straight face, that the PS3 and 360 are equally as powerful as one another.

"Nothing that recommends the 360 outside of the software (e.g., games)." Too bad good games are the single most important aspect of any videogame platform.
Absolutely true. They also happen to be the most easily "fixed" part of a platform's problem.

Also, software is EVERYTHING. I could have Deep Blue in my house, but it isn't going to compete with the PS3 or 360 in terms of games.
I disagree that [game] software is EVERYTHING. Deep Blue isn't made to play games. You don't have the hardware necessary to play them. And games are just one part of the software equation. There's also the underlying OS.

Also, since when has more power = better? There are several examples of inferior hardware doing just fine against (or in some cases, destroying) the "more powerful" competition.

PS1>N64
PS2>Gamecube
PS2>Xbox
Genesis>SNES
Gameboy>Game Gear
DS>PSP
So is it that the PS3 and 360 are comparable in horsepower or not? Or is it that the 360's library is superior? You may be making a good argument, but it's hard to tell what you're actually arguing.

First, we all know that the PS3 is a much more powerful machine. One look at the folding@home stats proves that. The storage format is also higher capacity.

Gameplay-wise, they're the same or the PS3 is better. The controllers are essentially identical but the PS3 also has tilt support.

I have no idea who will win this generation's battle and I'm not sure anyone "needs to" win it for all of us to have years of fun with our systems. The Wii and PS3 are at least trying to push the envelope. The 360 is the same old MS MO. Just good enough.

And that may be good enough.

edit: Many of you may have read this article (http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=15611&page=1) but if not, you should. Granted, it was put out by an Insomniac dev, but it makes several interesting points.

[rodeojones903]

how many of those PS3s were bought to sell on ebay though....I bet about 50% of those

That argument is irrelevant. Its not like those systems were not then purchased by someone that actually wanted it.

[torifile]

how many of those PS3s were bought to sell on ebay though....I bet about 50% of those Yeah. 500,000 PS3s were sold on eBay. :roll:

[imascrub]

how many of those PS3s were bought to sell on ebay though....I bet about 50% of those

there's always a winner in the end, even if they did pay with an arm and their first born child.

[millrat1030]

I think that this gen console war is different from last. The cost of game development is so high that we're going to see less 3rd party exclusives, which always played a part in how a console sold. Both M$ and $ony are trying to promote their systems as Media Hubs not just a game console.
I'm curious as to the life of the 360. Will they just keep upgrading the 360 and expect us to buy a new one every year, or will they actually make a new console? The original xbox lasted what 4 years? And then they just killed it. The PS2 seems to be alive and kicking even though the PS3 is out. I think we can all agree that's because the PS2 still gives you the most bang for you buck. $ony says they are expecting a 10 year life cycle out of the PS3, which when you look at the PS2 you could believe.
The wii is the one that really makes me wonder. I know a few people who have one and don't play it at all. They tell me the same thing "it was fun for a while". Is the wii a fad that will fade away in a few months?
I don't think $ony is going anywhere, and in the long haul I think the PS3 will have sold more than the 360 and wii. It might be 5 or 6 years from now but I believe it will happen.

[alongx]

Except there weren't as many 360 consoles available after four months. How can you sell more when you don't have as much to sell?

Beat me to the punch. MS had a very hard time getting up to speed. MS selling 1.02m units was because they only were able to push out 1.02m units up until that point. Compare that to all the PS3s that can be easily found, the PlayStation story isn't looking quite as cheery.

While Sony selling well is good, and being able to meet demand is good, in less than 6 months it can hardly be said that they are up to full capacity. It's not like Sony will be pushing out 12+ million units a year at their current manufacturing rate, yet they've more than satiated the market at this point.

[NamPaehc]

Beat me to the punch. MS had a very hard time getting up to speed. MS selling 1.02m units was because they only were able to push out 1.02m units up until that point. Compare that to all the PS3s that can be easily found, the PlayStation story isn't looking quite as cheery.

I'm not sure that washes either. You can't look back and really say the demand for them was really that high, even with the lack of units. I don't remember a lot of sold out signs and long lines outside of stores with people hoping to get a system. What you're saying is that if Microsoft had the systems out there, people would be buying them up instead of a situation sort of like we have with the PS3 now.

People see the power of PS3 system but are waiting for that big game to push their need to buy one just a bit higher. I'd argue that the same thing was happening with the XB250 and regardless of how many systems were out, that the numbers wouldn't have been that much different.

[captmurphy]

Do you have any proof that the GPU in the 360 makes up for the vastly inferior CPU?

I don't think anyone can reasonably claim, with a straight face, that the PS3 and 360 are equally as powerful as one another.
Here is some information comparing the 360 to the PS3 hardware wise -

http://www.hardcoreware.net/reviews/review-348-1.htm
http://www.itvidya.com/playstation_3_vs_xbox_360
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2453&p=1
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=758390
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_PFUw29U4J8

(First two are somewhat biased, but the last three are pretty swell).


Absolutely true (videogame software is the most important aspect of any gaming platform). They (videogame software) also happen to be the most easily "fixed" part of a platform's problem.

I disagree that [game] software is EVERYTHING. Deep Blue isn't made to play games.
Wha? You say games are and aren't the most important things for a platform in consecutive paragraphs.


So is it that the PS3 and 360 are comparable in horsepower or not? Or is it that the 360's library is superior? You may be making a good argument, but it's hard to tell what you're actually arguing.

First, we all know that the PS3 is a much more powerful machine. One look at the folding@home stats proves that. The storage format is also higher capacity.

Gameplay-wise, they're the same or the PS3 is better. The controllers are essentially identical but the PS3 also has tilt support.

I have no idea who will win this generation's battle and I'm not sure anyone "needs to" win it for all of us to have years of fun with our systems. The Wii and PS3 are at least trying to push the envelope. The 360 is the same old MS MO. Just good enough.

Usually I don't think it is worth the effort to argue over the internet, but your points are so biased I feel the need to do so anyways.

Consensus - The Cell is a more powerful CPU, but it is extremely difficult to program for. The 360's Xenon architecture, while not able to crunch numbers quite as fast, is designed to be easy to develop for and very efficient. It will take a long time for the Cell to be fully utilized.

The GPU of the 360 is more efficient that the RSX. All of the above articles give it the edge. Also, the 360's unified memory architecture allows developers more freedom in allocating system resources.

So, basiclly, your arguement fails on two levels - the 360 and the PS3 are very comparible in terms of horsepower, and even if the PS3 won that battle "easily" as you seem to believe, history has shown that more power =/= "better."

Oh, and what "plays better" on the PS3 than on the 360? With the exception of Oblivion, I cannot think of ONE multiplatform game that even LOOKS better on the PS3 than the 360, let alone plays. Don't get me wrong... I will be buying a PS3 soon for games like Lair and Ratchet and Clank, but it really seems like you are totally lapping up all of this "next-next generation" BS Sony keeps feeding us.

[Grave_Addiction]

Remember when no one cared and it was about playing games and having fun.

Yeah, that was when we were playing the Atari 2600. Once Sega and Nintendo unleashed the 8-bit systems, kids chose sides and the fighting commenced. It's always been like that, and frankly, I loved it because it was always fun to argue over which system was best and why.

[soonersfan60]

I've got news for you: It was the same way when the 2600 was out. There were kids who had to defend the crappy Odyssey 2, and kids who felt superior because they had the "better" Intellivision (but secretly everyone envied the 2600 kids with their arcade conversions). And there were even fewer kids then who had multiple systems. (I was fortunate enough to have one of each--except the terrible Odyssey 2. Never wanted one of those...)

[Mechafenris]

I've got news for you: It was the same way when the 2600 was out. There were kids who had to defend the crappy Odyssey 2, and kids who felt superior because they had the "better" Intellivision (but secretly everyone envied the 2600 kids with their arcade conversions). And there were even fewer kids then who had multiple systems. (I was fortunate enough to have one of each--except the terrible Odyssey 2. Never wanted one of those...)

You forgot Colecovision (which had such a pretty version of Donkey Kong compared to my 2600), the Atari 5200 (which was merely an Atari 800 sans keyboard...oversimplifying, I know), and the ill-fated Coleco Telstar and RCA Studio II before them... The Odyssey was awful. I played Gorf on one of them and was so disappointed it didn't talk like the arcades... ;)

But the real debate occurred among the 2600, Coleco, and Intellivision camps when I was a youngster. :) The key to that is "when I was a youngster". I stopped defending my platform of choice after the death of the Amiga... :)

[dpatel]

I've got news for you: It was the same way when the 2600 was out. There were kids who had to defend the crappy Odyssey 2, and kids who felt superior because they had the "better" Intellivision (but secretly everyone envied the 2600 kids with their arcade conversions). And there were even fewer kids then who had multiple systems. (I was fortunate enough to have one of each--except the terrible Odyssey 2. Never wanted one of those...)

Yep. The difference is, we didn't have internet back then to bring all of these poeple together. Fanboys have always been there, they just never had a medium to express themselves.

[soonersfan60]

Colecovision was round two, against the Atari 5200...

[zerolens]

With Sony's brand name and incredible dominance last generation, I don't think it can be anything but a huge victory for Microsoft to see that their console(which was limited in stock much more than PS3 during its first four months) sold so comparably to the PS3.

It's a good thing for Microsoft, and a sobering thing for Sony, not necessarily bad, but they will have a much more realistic competitor chomping at their heels this generation.

All these numbers show is how close things are. Sony really should have blown them away out of the gate with the Sony loyal PS2 fanbase behind them, but they are making the transition from PS2 to PS3 much more difficult than it should be, not to mention lacking good, unique software to motivate purchases. $130 to suddenly $600? That's going to happen very slowly, and it gives MS even more time to snatch away those PS2 owners that will define the current generation's top seller.

Once the pricing of the PS3 was announced I think most people already knew all of the PS2 buyers weren't going to get a PS3. 100 million PS3's most likely isn't going to happen. Of course most PS2 buyers didn't buy at launch, so we can't expect the same at PS3 launch. Too early to say what's going to happen.

Sony was willing to lose some of that 100 million in exchange for improved chances with blu-ray. Blu-ray can make them a lot of money, probably more than PS3 games I would guess. HD-DVD has the price advantage over blu-ray players, if blu-ray software sales remained worse than hd-dvd (putting blu-ray in PS3 can only help blu-ray movie sales) then you could possibly see Fox, Lionsgate, Disney, or whoever jump ship to hd-dvd or at the least become neutral. Blu-ray has a huge advantage in software, they can't afford to lose that. Sony may be willing to sacrifice PS3 3rd party exclusives (MGS4 or whatever) in exchange to winning on the blu-ray front.

How much that higher price would make them lose is a different story. I think considering the price and software selection they are doing solid, but if they don't get it together in Japan they could possibly lose lots of exclusives to the Wii over time or going into the next generation. Other than the exclusive sony published games, Japanese games is what gives you the reason to want one. Wii still has to prove itself and steal away these games though.

I think niche games like Suikoden will tell the story. IMO this series isn't big enough to justify a port to multiple consoles. 360 has failed horribly in Japan so that's pretty much out (the series needs Japan sales). If PS3 can hang on to games like that then they're in good shape IMO, if Wii steals them away then PS3 can be in trouble. FF13 going multi-platform would be very bad as well. Square would almost single-handily split the JRPG fanbase between PS3 and 360 in Europe and NA. JRPG makers then would have to decide about spending big bucks on PS3 and either porting to 360 or lose some money on not doing a port, or take the easy route and make a cheaper Wii version which has great sales in Japan. Major problem for PS3 in the long run IMO. PS3 needs FF13 exclusive much more than DMC4 or MGS4 IMO.

One note about 360 snatching up PS2 buyers. It's a year and half later and instead of a price drop (which is reasonable to expect at this point) they not only kept the price the same but created a new $500 version. This only helps sony and nintendo and buys them both some time. A $200 core would hold up great against a $250 Wii. A $300 360 premium looks like a great deal compared to a $600 PS3 ($500 PS3 seems very rare at this point).

[Apossum]

It's epic how this thread came back to the Atari 2600.

"Under 50 bucks!"

*turntable scratches*

[mykevermin]

I think niche games like Suikoden will tell the story.

A very interesting argument, and the complete opposite of what everyone else is saying (that MGS4 moving to the 360 will be the death-knell of the PS3, or other high profile titles).

[amicus]

niche games don't sell hardware though.

but i think they could use better advertising. the currents ones aren't great. they need like a Gears of War style ad, with the music and the style. that commercial and a 360 sale during the ps3 launch convinced me to buy it.

well... first they need a good game to advertise.

[zerolens]

A very interesting argument, and the complete opposite of what everyone else is saying (that MGS4 moving to the 360 will be the death-knell of the PS3, or other high profile titles).

Xbox and Gamecube did at least get a Metal Gear game. For some people MGS4 going to 360 is all it takes to ignore the PS3 the rest of this gen, but IMO it's not the nail in the coffin for PS3.

FF13 going to 360 would hurt them much worse. I'm actually looking forward to MGS4 more than FF13, but FF13 is crucial to Sony. If Square keeps it exclusive then the PS3 is selling well enough to sustain more RPG's from Square. Square isn't really known for porting games around. That translates into quite a few JRPG's down the line. I think Wii will see some too but FF13 and FF13 Versus exclusive is a great start and JRPG fans will more likely stick to the PS3.

Why make a game like DQ10 or KH3 for PS3 and 360 when you can make it specifically for the Wii cheaper and on a platform that's doing great in all regions? FF13 ported to 360 splits the userbase up and makes it a no-brainer choice for Konami to put Suikoden on Wii, or Atlus to put Shin Megami Tensei on Wii.

So IMO yes those smaller titles as a whole is more important than MGS4 going multi. FF13 going multi would be more of a domino effect. I can't see Square wanting to make PS3 games and porting to 360 a habit. They'll go straight to the Wii and get the same sales. Holding their ground on FF13 exclusive brings the Square fans and fans of JRPG's in general to the PS3. Japanese gaming fans could still count on PS3 to deliver a solid library of titles. If you lose Square the smaller companies will follow Square to where DQ10, KH3, FF14, and where others show up. Porting to 360 makes it that much harder to figure out where the fans are IMO. I can't see MGS4 causing that same domino effect.

[zerolens]

niche games don't sell hardware though.



True, but if everything is ported to 360 or those niche games go to Wii what's the point of the PS3? If the PS3 alone can't make a profit for these niche games then companies will abandon it. Seeing Shadow Hearts, Suikoden, SMT and other Atlus games show up in waves on the Wii will kill the playstation name. Wii will have those games and 360 will have PS3 games + some exclusive PC games for a lower price. Exclusive niche games compliment the games like Heavenly Sword and Uncharted, one niche game doesn't move hardware but several together exclusive to one console does.

[jer7583]

I really think that the Wii could be the destination for RPGs and niche titles. Low development cost and a higher install base than japan will at least make the Wii very attractive.

Niche publishers/developers who put out software that doesn't have a wide range of appeal won't want to have to invest in HD, 360/PS3 level graphics as readily, since their titles don't sell as widely, especially so early in the console race. Wii games can be developed for less cost and faster, without much (if any) sacrifice to their intended game designs for RPGs and such.

[Dr Mario Kart]

marketing for niche games doesnt quite work in the same way. A lot of marketing is flashy and graphically driven, and a lot of those games simply lack that.

I bought a PSP at launch solely on the promise of an original NIS development, and they failed to deliver on that.

[icruise]

I really think that the Wii could be the destination for RPGs and niche titles. Low development cost and a higher install base than japan will at least make the Wii very attractive.

Niche publishers/developers who put out software that doesn't have a wide range of appeal won't want to have to invest in HD, 360/PS3 level graphics as readily, since their titles don't sell as widely, especially so early in the console race. Wii games can be developed for less cost and faster, without much (if any) sacrifice to their intended game designs for RPGs and such.
Actually, I'm not convinced that moving to HD would entail much extra cost for these niche game developers, because the games aren't in 3D to begin with. All it would mean would be bumping up the resolution that they use for their art. Spectral Force for the 360 (only available in Japan) is a good example of this. It's an SRPG similar to Disgaea, but in HD.

[Dr Mario Kart]

An analyst quoted in Bloomburg had suggested that Wii titles can cost $2-5 million versus $20-30M on competitor's systems. I cant say how true that is or how much cost is actually negated as a matter of "simply drawing higher res sprites", but there shouldnt be a reason to leave PS2 anytime soon.

With comparable marketshare, the decision should be easy to make. I would ask NIS if they would be happy with Spectral Force grade unit sales.

[zerolens]

$20-$30M is more along the lines of Killzone and FF13 I think though. If you do a google search Killzone is around $21 million supposedly, that's considered really high. Obviously Sony wouldn't put that much into a game like Untold Legends, same with Konami not putting a MGS4 budget into something like Suikoden.

I'm sure Wii is still cheaper though (how much I don't know). I think Nippon Ichi ought to test the waters on both consoles though and see how it goes. They could also look at Fire Emblem sales on the Wii to get a rough idea. Wii Fire Emblem did 75k it's first week, beyond that I don't know. Not fantastic but not horrible either IMO, but I'm not sure if Fire Emblem would have an advantage over a Nippon ichi game though since it's made by Nintendo.

[io]

Colecovision was round two, against the Atari 5200...

Yeah, that's what I thought. If kids were still comparing the 2600 to the Colecovision that was like comparing the original Xbox to the PS3, sort of.

Anyway, I do remember looking at those glossy Intellivision brochures and pining for one of those as I only had the lowly Atari (no 2600 back then - it was just Atari, wasn't it?). But I was the only kid I knew who had ANY system so I never even saw an Intellivision in person :lol:.

Then I got a Colecovision. My next console after that was a Gamecube. (Had, and still have, an NES from college, but I played it no more than 20 hours total).

But, yeah, on topic. I'll get a PS3 when it gets some good games that are available cheaply. That's what I'm currently doing with the 360 too. So maybe in a year or so I'll get a PS3. Then I'll have 5 game consoles hooked up (GC, PS2, Wii, 360, PS3 in that order) - unreal... Good thing I have a big ol' Pelican system switcher!

[io]

I really think that the Wii could be the destination for RPGs and niche titles. Low development cost and a higher install base than japan will at least make the Wii very attractive.

Niche publishers/developers who put out software that doesn't have a wide range of appeal won't want to have to invest in HD, 360/PS3 level graphics as readily, since their titles don't sell as widely, especially so early in the console race. Wii games can be developed for less cost and faster, without much (if any) sacrifice to their intended game designs for RPGs and such.

Yeah, and weren't many of these niche games really not top of line in terms of graphics on the PS2 anyway? I'm thinking of Atelier Iris/Disgaea/etc. Many of those were PS1+ in terms of technology. Certainly those could go to the Wii and still be improved quite a bit graphically.

zerolens - Excellent points. You have my motivations nailed down, anyway. I got the PS2 for exactly the reasons you state and am waiting a bit on the PS3 to see how it shakes out. I'm not the least bit interested in MGS and a lot of the other Sony-affiliiated stuff. I enjoy things like Jak and R&C but they aren't system sellers for me. Since I'm getting a 360 I can use that for the few big multiplatform games I'm interested in (Oblivion, Burnout, etc). Still, I will have a craving for HD RPG's (even if the Wii gets many niche titles), and it will be interesting to see how that shakes out PS3 vs 360.

[sarausagi]

Considering the casual base and mainstream approach, would niche titles and JRPG's really be at home on the Wii? Except for Nintendo's own Fire Emblem series and "Tales of" series, Gamecube did not get any strong RPG's. Paper Mario: Thousand Year Door was the only real contender and definitely the GC's best RPG. Baten Kaitos, Harvest Moon, those are all stretches. Quite honestly, the X-Men Legends series is the GC's second most legitimate attempt at an RPG.

I just don't see why developers would pick the Wii for these genre when the PS2 covers the gigantic 100 million PS2 install base, plus the growing PS3 base. You all have to remember, there was a moment in time where stories were going around, about moms and trendy, non gamer teenagers/20 somethings picking up Gamecubes for Animal Crossing addictions and Smash Brothers/Mario Party.

On the other hand, the only next gen DDR out is Universe on 360. With games like Viva Pinata, DOAX2, Guitar Hero, DDR, and the upcoming Blue Dragon, it seems that the 360 is an extremely likely candidate for uniquely Japanese games. The only "next gen" RPG's so far have happened on 360, even in Japan. Plus the one truly Japanese oddball title out in the next gen is only out on the 360: IDOLMASTER.

[botticus]

Considering the casual base and mainstream approach, would niche titles and JRPG's really be at home on the Wii? Except for Nintendo's own Fire Emblem series and "Tales of" series, Gamecube did not get any strong RPG's. Paper Mario: Thousand Year Door was the only real contender and definitely the GC's best RPG. Baten Kaitos, Harvest Moon, those are all stretches. Quite honestly, the X-Men Legends series is the GC's second most legitimate attempt at an RPG.

I just don't see why developers would pick the Wii for these genre when the PS2 covers the gigantic 100 million PS2 install base, plus the growing PS3 base. You all have to remember, there was a moment in time where stories were going around, about moms and trendy, non gamer teenagers/20 somethings picking up Gamecubes for Animal Crossing addictions and Smash Brothers/Mario Party.Tales of Symphonia sold better on the much smaller GameCube userbase than Abyss or Legendia on the PS2. The only worldwide million-seller in the series, in fact.

[icruise]

On the other hand, the only next gen DDR out is Universe on 360. With games like Viva Pinata, DOAX2, Guitar Hero, DDR, and the upcoming Blue Dragon, it seems that the 360 is an extremely likely candidate for uniquely Japanese games. The only "next gen" RPG's so far have happened on 360, even in Japan. Plus the one truly Japanese oddball title out in the next gen is only out on the 360: IDOLMASTER.
Most Japanese developers aren't going to develop for a system that sells terribly in Japan. End of story. The only reason Blue Dragon got made was that Microsoft got behind it.

[mykevermin]

Tales of Symphonia sold better on the much smaller GameCube userbase than Abyss or Legendia on the PS2. The only worldwide million-seller in the series, in fact.

To be fair, the PS2 suffered from too many RPGs. Since it's install base was 4X what everyone else had, developers/publishers were up against a wall: put out titles on systems with fewer games of similar genres (such as RPGs), or put out titles on the system with 4X as many users?

PS2 had Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Dot Hack, Xenosaga, Tales of the Whatever, the Nippon Ichi flavor of the month, Atlus' collectors' crap, and probably dozens more titles. Gamecube users were relegated with Tales of Symphonia, Skies of Arcadia, and perhaps 7 more individual titles at most.

Since nobody really expects the company who sells the most consoles this time around to have the massive advantage that Sony did, I likewise would argue that as a corollary the dynamics of putting out games on consoles will change. Some titles, as zerolens correctly pointed out, simply can't afford to put a game out on every console, so they'll focus on one. For the time being, I imagine we'll see some even distribution. Some companies think they'll have better chances on the Wii, others on the PS3, and yet others on the 360. It will be a regional dividing line separating the 360 from the PS3 and Wii, of course (Japanese developers catering to Japanese fans won't even consider the 360, and companies putting out titles like Bioshock probably think the 360 is the preferable console due to its concentration in the US and Europe (assuming, of course, that Bioshock stays on one console - which I think it will).

If there's anything for sure, it's that it's gonna be a fuckin' *mess* this gen. My only sticking point is that the Wii is going to die really fuckin' quickly if it continues to receive ports of older games with updated controls, which are sold at full retail price (for fuckin' real: I *know* RE4Wii sounds cool, but open your eyes, people).

[sarausagi]

: I *know* RE4Wii sounds cool, but open your eyes, people).

I wish people did open their eyes. It's funny how something like Tomb Raider or Final Fantasy VII remake is so quickly looked down upon [IT'S JUST A GRAPHICS UPDATE!!!!" or THOSE GAMES ARE FUCKING LAME] but you take a game that is already pretty much near perfect [RE4] and barely came out about two years ago, add some slapped on unresponsive Wii controls, and it's gold

Which is just as hypocritical, because when the PS2 version of RE4 came out, with different controls for the Dual Shock 2, additional side quests/modes, and widescreen/HD support, the Nintendo fanbase flamed it to no end and dismissed it as crap. I guess remakes and improvements are only good when they're for your own system? Right?

And that gets even worse, because these are the same people who want MGS, FF, DMC, and every single franchise to be on Wii and 360 and some even hope the PS3 doesn't get them at all, but if they all of a sudden saw NiGHTS or Crackdown on PS3, they'd be like "AWW! Fuck no, why did they have to put it on PS3?!" and instantly dismiss anything good that comes of their PS3 port [besides the fact that if you sincerely LOVE a game and not a system, why wouldn't you want as many people as possible to experience it]

I'm not saying people shouldn't have their problems with the PS3..right now it's a console that only certain people need to have, there's nothing you NEED to play right now..but if blu-ray, web-browsing, and Virtua Fighter 5 make you happy, it's a good console to have..but why so much ill wishes? Nintendo fans got plenty of great games even with the PS2 and the Xbox around..but the way it is now..honestly seems lots of Wii60 lovers would live happily if our PS3s were shelved in a year.

[H.Cornerstone]

I wish people did open their eyes. It's funny how something like Tomb Raider or Final Fantasy VII remake is so quickly looked down upon [IT'S JUST A GRAPHICS UPDATE!!!!" or THOSE GAMES ARE FUCKING LAME] but you take a game that is already pretty much near perfect [RE4] and barely came out about two years ago, add some slapped on unresponsive Wii controls, and it's gold

Which is just as hypocritical, because when the PS2 version of RE4 came out, with different controls for the Dual Shock 2, additional side quests/modes, and widescreen/HD support, the Nintendo fanbase flamed it to no end and dismissed it as crap. I guess remakes and improvements are only good when they're for your own system? Right?

And that gets even worse, because these are the same people who want MGS, FF, DMC, and every single franchise to be on Wii and 360 and some even hope the PS3 doesn't get them at all, but if they all of a sudden saw NiGHTS or Crackdown on PS3, they'd be like "AWW! Fuck no, why did they have to put it on PS3?!" and instantly dismiss anything good that comes of their PS3 port [besides the fact that if you sincerely LOVE a game and not a system, why wouldn't you want as many people as possible to experience it]

I'm not saying people shouldn't have their problems with the PS3..right now it's a console that only certain people need to have, there's nothing you NEED to play right now..but if blu-ray, web-browsing, and Virtua Fighter 5 make you happy, it's a good console to have..but why so much ill wishes? Nintendo fans got plenty of great games even with the PS2 and the Xbox around..but the way it is now..honestly seems lots of Wii60 lovers would live happily if our PS3s were shelved in a year.

I agree with you, however I think some people are worried that a remake of any game will not have as much investment and time put into it, will suck thus ruining the reputation of a game they love so much. And with Nintendo fans, it was one of the games for hte GC that was meant for a mature audiance and when it went to PS2 they no longer had that justification so I can understand their anger. However, I never played RE4 on PS2, and I am looking forward to playing RE4 for the Wii as long as Capcom isn't as bad at porting as Ubisoft is.

[The Crotch]

My only sticking point is that the Wii is going to die really fuckin' quickly if it continues to receive ports of older games with updated controls, which are sold at full retail price (for fuckin' real: I *know* RE4Wii sounds cool, but open your eyes, people).

Wait, wait, wait... RE4 Wii is full price now? Since when?

[integralsmatic]

for those who havent seen it yet. I give you the ultimate ps3 ballin fanboy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_19WR0CHz0

CHAD WARDEN!!!!

[apokalipze2]

That's hilarious :lol::lol::lol:

[depascal22]

Why won't the niche titles just stay on PS2? PS3 users can still play them but there won't be the huge development costs. Don't forget that alot of great PS1 RPGs came out after the PS2 released. 100 million people aren't just gonna throw out their PS2s right away. Atlus, Nippon Ichi, and the rest of the RPG makers have at least two years to figure what the hell to do. At least by then, the race will be a little clearer.

[richbastard]

Good video nice to see someone working on putting some real PS3 facts out there, LBP is looking sick cant wait for that badboy.

[Sarang01]

I wish people did open their eyes. It's funny how something like Tomb Raider or Final Fantasy VII remake is so quickly looked down upon [IT'S JUST A GRAPHICS UPDATE!!!!" or THOSE GAMES ARE FUCKING LAME] but you take a game that is already pretty much near perfect [RE4] and ``widescreen/HD support, the Nintendo fanbase flamed it to no end and dismissed it as crap. I guess remakes and improvements are only good when they're for your own system? Right?

And that gets even worse, because these are the same people who want MGS, FF, DMC, and every single franchise to be on Wii and 360 and some even hope the PS3 doesn't get them at all, but if they all of a sudden saw NiGHTS or Crackdown on PS3, they'd be like "AWW! Fuck no, why did they have to put it on PS3?!" and instantly dismiss anything good that comes of their PS3 port [besides the fact that if you sincerely LOVE a game and not a system, why wouldn't you want as many people as possible to experience it]

I'm not saying people shouldn't have their problems with the PS3..right now it's a console that only certain people need to have, there's nothing you NEED to play right now..but if blu-ray, web-browsing, and Virtua Fighter 5 make you happy, it's a good console to have..but why so much ill wishes? Nintendo fans got plenty of great games even with the PS2 and the Xbox around..but the way it is now..honestly seems lots of Wii60 lovers would live happily if our PS3s were shelved in a year.

I was pretty pissed when I found out the PS2 version had WS support but that soon deflated after I found out it was fake and just stretched. I HATE that and if RE4 Wii has real WS, no bullshit LBX crap I'm interested. I won't pay $50 for it, more like $20.
As for BR you want to know how I feel look at my sig.

[sarausagi]

I was pretty pissed when I found out the PS2 version had WS support but that soon deflated after I found out it was fake and just stretched. I HATE that and if RE4 Wii has real WS, no bullshit LBX crap I'm interested. I won't pay $50 for it, more like $20.
As for BR you want to know how I feel look at my sig.

Pretty sure RE4 is real WS on PS2....I'll have to load it up again tonight...I don't remember it being fake like FFXII on PS2.

[furyk]

I wish people did open their eyes. It's funny how something like Tomb Raider or Final Fantasy VII remake is so quickly looked down upon [IT'S JUST A GRAPHICS UPDATE!!!!" or THOSE GAMES ARE FUCKING LAME] but you take a game that is already pretty much near perfect [RE4] and barely came out about two years ago, add some slapped on unresponsive Wii controls, and it's gold.

I haven't been on CAG the last two weeks, but my personal reaction was that RE 4 Wii is bullshit. Furthermore, I don't know a single person who plays RPGs (besides myself) that wouldn't give their right nut for FFVII on the PS3. The negative reaction to FFVII is strictly because of shit like Dirge of Cerberus. Tomb Raider.... I just don't know. It seems to be the most hated game series of all time until a new one is released and the press and gamers give it a collective pass as it becomes a multi million seller every time.

[Blackout]

Cmon now, why is Wii now getting RE4? Again? Like godfather, Prince Of Persia, etc. Cmon honestly. These games have been out. You can get them for under 20 bucks, why would you spend full price all over again? Where is the new RE for the Wii? They should focus on that instead of yet another old game getting released again. The Wii still have some really good games out right now, with Paper Mario, Sonic, and stuff like that (others for me but I'll get flamed to high hell for mentioning them). All these old games and kiddy games are really already flooding the Wii, and it just came out.

I think the PS3 will do great once new titles came out. I mean when PS2 was coming out, it was all "I can't wait for the new Crash or Tomb Raider game), and those titles bombed and dissapeared and new titles came up. I'm excited for stuff like that.

Plus in a PSM there was a Indigo Prophecy like game coming for the PS3(not sure if it was also going to 360), I think it was called Heavy Rain. I loved IP and I can't wait for this game, which I know will be on PS3.

[jer7583]

Godfather is a lot of fun on Wii. RE4 will be nice if it releases for cheap, because we'll have the PS2 extra content on a version that doesn't have blurry graphics and fewer enemies. I couldn't stand the PS2 version after playing the GameCube one. I'd re-buy it on Wii for $20-30.


By the way, PS3 got a version of Godfather too, not much enhanced from current gen.

[H.Cornerstone]

Cmon now, why is Wii now getting RE4? Again? Like godfather, Prince Of Persia, etc. Cmon honestly. These games have been out. You can get them for under 20 bucks, why would you spend full price all over again? Where is the new RE for the Wii? They should focus on that instead of yet another old game getting released again. The Wii still have some really good games out right now, with Paper Mario, Sonic, and stuff like that (others for me but I'll get flamed to high hell for mentioning them). All these old games and kiddy games are really already flooding the Wii, and it just came out.

I think the PS3 will do great once new titles came out. I mean when PS2 was coming out, it was all "I can't wait for the new Crash or Tomb Raider game), and those titles bombed and dissapeared and new titles came up. I'm excited for stuff like that.

Plus in a PSM there was a Indigo Prophecy like game coming for the PS3(not sure if it was also going to 360), I think it was called Heavy Rain. I loved IP and I can't wait for this game, which I know will be on PS3.

I believe we should hold jugdement until we learn whether or not this game will be full priced or budget priced.

[s3v3n777]

I'll buy RE4 if the game is not as blurry as the PS2 version. Considering that I bought the PS2 version for about $10, I don't mind paying $50 for a wii-make.

[icruise]

I believe we should hold jugdement until we learn whether or not this game will be full priced or budget priced.

Ebgames has it listed for $30. (http://www.ebgames.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=230095)

[icruise]

By the way, PS3 got a version of Godfather too, not much enhanced from current gen.
The "next gen" versions of The Godfather are only barely better than the previous gen versions. Some of the graphics on the 360 version (which is the one I have) are shockingly bad. "Worse than PS2" bad. It is higher resolution, but the faces, for example, look like crap.

[Blackout]

Godfather is a lot of fun on Wii. RE4 will be nice if it releases for cheap, because we'll have the PS2 extra content on a version that doesn't have blurry graphics and fewer enemies. I couldn't stand the PS2 version after playing the GameCube one. I'd re-buy it on Wii for $20-30.


By the way, PS3 got a version of Godfather too, not much enhanced from current gen.

Yeah I know, which is also dumb. Are people actually buying them up though? (either for the Wii or PS3).

$30 is a decent price I guess, but I wish instead of this we could get that RE Umbrella Chronicles (or whatever it was called).

[botticus]

Yeah I know, which is also dumb. Are people actually buying them up though? (either for the Wii or PS3).

$30 is a decent price I guess, but I wish instead of this we could get that RE Umbrella Chronicles (or whatever it was called).They're both coming out. RE4 is likely just a quick cash-in to make up the money they know they'll lose when people don't want to spend $50 (probably) on an on-rails light gun game in UC.

[-Never4ever-]

They're both coming out. RE4 is likely just a quick cash-in to make up the money they know they'll lose when people don't want to spend $50 (probably) on an on-rails light gun game in UC.

Not likely. The Wii game is going to cost next to nothing to make, while the RE name alone is going to make money. It's probably to make up for the huge cash sink that is RE5 and DMC4.

[Dr Mario Kart]

March NPD just hit: Serious Business

Hardware Sales

Nintendo DS 508K
PlayStation 2 280K
Wii 259K
Xbox 360 199K
PlayStation Portable 180K
Game Boy Advance 148K
PlayStation 3 130K
GameCube 22K
Xbox n/a


Top 10 Software

PS2 GOD OF WAR II 833K
360 TOM CLANCY'S GHOST RECON: ADVANCED WARFI 394K
360 GUITAR HERO 2 W/ GUITAR 291K
WII PLAY W/ REMOTE 273K
PS3 MOTORSTORM 199K
NDS DIDDY KONG RACING 189K
NDS SPECTROBES 165K
360 MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL 2K7 165K
PS2 MLB '07: THE SHOW 164K
360 DEF JAM ICON 148K

So now that we're done with VF5 and Motorstorm moving PS3s, lets move it up to Lair.

[icruise]

That's actually not that bad in comparison with the 360, considering the bleak state of PS3 software right at the moment.

[schultzed]

I saw 2 or 3 PS3s at BB a few days ago . . . they looked sad . . . like no one wanted them.

I think the price is just too steep.

I'm going to NEED a 360 or a PS3 . . . GTA IV is looking like a must play.

[dallow]

PS3 doing well it seems to me for something at that price. Being outsold by a media friendly $250 Wii by 2 to 1 is pretty good in my book.
Let's hope the price drop is true, I want this install base to grow!

Gosh, and that PS2 is a killer.

[Apossum]

jeezus, i know it's now a cliche but seriously, who doesn't own a ps2?

lol @ the PS3 numbers. each game that comes out just a moves a couple systems, I guess. Lair and NGS should move a couple more. Wouldn't be surprised if the April numbers are even lower.

[torifile]

I think the PS3 will really pick up steam when 2 things happen:

1) It gets a price drop. $599 is too much for a "no occasion" purchase. IOW, no Christmas nearby.
2) Better games come out.
2a) Rumble. Games just feel too "quiet" without rumble. It really takes away from the experience
2b) Games that use some of the unique aspects of the system are available. Why a PS3 over a 360 or a PS2? That's hard to answer. Why a Wii or DS over [insert name of competitor here]? That's a really easy question for anyone to answer.

Unfortunately, I don't see any of those things happening in the next 6 months. I'm really digging on my PS3. I love the fact that it's a no compromise system. But not everyone can appreciate (or afford) one right now.

[Thomas96]

I think the PS3 will really pick up steam when 2 things happen:

1) It gets a price drop. $599 is too much for a "no occasion" purchase. IOW, no Christmas nearby.
2) Better games come out.
2a) Rumble. Games just feel too "quiet" without rumble. It really takes away from the experience
2b) Games that use some of the unique aspects of the system are available. Why a PS3 over a 360 or a PS2? That's hard to answer. Why a Wii or DS over [insert name of competitor here]? That's a really easy question for anyone to answer.

Unfortunately, I don't see any of those things happening in the next 6 months. I'm really digging on my PS3. I love the fact that it's a no compromise system. But not everyone can appreciate (or afford) one right now.


you're definitely right w/ 1 and 2... people can't afford ps3... there's more people that can afford 249.99 than 599.99 so of course, if the wii doesn't outsell the ps3, then that makes it an absolute failure.

In terms of games, you're right.... but ps3 needs more than just "more games" they need games that aren't ports from 360 titles. Its up to heavenly sword, and lair... have to keep those games exclusive, and they have to be good.

[Dr Mario Kart]

The two things have to happen simultaneously. I have my doubts that better games alone will do it.

Motorstorm sold very well, but to the existing base.

Look what happens to the 360 in Japan. A would be killer game comes out, hardware sales spike, then level off. Even AAA great games arent $600 good to most people.

[icruise]

Few people will spend $600 to play one particular game, but if they're already interested in the system, it often only takes one or two really good games to push them over the edge. The PS3 just doesn't have that yet. I think sales will also pick up as more high profile Blu-ray titles show up.

[dallow]

The two things have to happen simultaneously. I have my doubts that better games alone will do it.

Motorstorm sold very well, but to the existing base.

Look what happens to the 360 in Japan. A would be killer game comes out, hardware sales spike, then level off. Even AAA great games arent $600 good to most people.

It takes more than a couple games for most people to spend that much.

Not everyone is like us early adopters who know what's coming, and what they have to deal with at launch.

[jer7583]

I think it's a safe thing to say that we won't be seeing another $600 console from Sony next generation. They certainly pushed the market to the limit with that pricing.

[dallow]

That I can agree with.