CAGcast #71: Young Hero and Steed, Wombat 2000

[CheapyD]

CheapyD adds another ridiculous toy to his arsenal and both hosts discuss a plethora of gaming and game shopping news, answer your questions from the CAGbag (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71382) and much more!

Download (http://media.libsyn.com/media/cheapyd/cagcast71.mp3) - 96 minutes, 44MB
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Past CAGcasts (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/../archives/cat_cagcast.php)

http://media.libsyn.com/media/cheapyd/cagcast71.mp3

Show Linkage/Notes (click the button below to expand):

Intro music: Wario Ware: Smooth Moves (Wii) Ping Pong Tower

http://www.myspace.com/art_of_rich_buckler
CheapyD on Joystiq and Destructoid Podcasts (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133687)

CAG Foreplay: New Releases (4/10/07) (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/../archives/cag-foreplay-new-releases-41007.php)

Super Paper Mario (http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/933012.asp)
Resident Evil 4 Wii Confirmed, New Umbrella Chronicles Info (http://kotaku.com/gaming/resident-evil/resident-evil-4-wii-confirmed-new-umbrella-chronicles-info-249487.php)
Resident Evil 4 Wii controls detailed, diagramed (http://feeds.joystiq.com/%7Er/weblogsinc/joystiq/%7E3/107827316/)
Phoenix Wright 3 on the way!!! (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133993)
Pac-Man Vs. Takes On DS (http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/nintendo/pac+man-vs-takes-on-ds-251191.php)
EA Playing Catch Up On Wii (http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/ea/ea-playing-catch-up-on-wii-250757.php)

MotorStorm Designer: Japan Not Bothered About Online (http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/motorstorm/motorstorm-designer-japan-not-bothered-about-online-250940.php)
ThreeSpeech Apologizes for Bioshock Gaffe (http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/bioshock/threespeech-apologizes-for-bioshock-gaffe-250560.php)
Rumor: LocoRoco PS3 Hits In June? (http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/locoroco/rumor-locoroco-ps3-hits-in-june-250895.php)
US retailers drop 20GB PS3 (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=24078)

Halo 3 Multiplayer Beta Hits Xbox LIVE Worldwide on May 16 (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134150)
DIY Guitar Hero II Controller Fix (http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/ghii/diy-guitar-hero-ii-controller-fix-250913.php)
Guitar Hero III Coming to Wii, PS3, 360 (http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/top/guitar-hero-iii-coming-to-wii-ps3-360-251025.php)
1UP Yours Podcast with Epic Games (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3158564)
Epic Not Exactly Thrilled With Games For Windows Live (http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/games-for-windows-live/epic-not-exactly-thrilled-with-games-for-windows-live-250927.php)
Gamespot leaks Xbox 360's new dashboard (http://feeds.joystiq.com/%7Er/weblogsinc/joystiq/%7E3/107337208/)
Gallery: 360 Text Input Device (http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/gallery/gallery-360-text-input-device-250771.php)
New Marvel Ultimate Alliance Content available for 360 (http://feeds.joystiq.com/%7Er/weblogsinc/joystiq/%7E3/108062741/)
Shiver me timbers! Oblivion expansion has critical bug (http://feeds.joystiq.com/%7Er/weblogsinc/joystiq/%7E3/107858814/)

Video Game Decency Act: saving the children, or one-way ticket to tyranny? (http://feeds.joystiq.com/%7Er/weblogsinc/joystiq/%7E3/107785405/)
How Rockstar Screwed Us and Why Jack Thompson is Right - A CAG Editorial (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/../archives/how-rockstar-screwed-us-and-why-jack-thompson-is-right-a-cag-editorial.php)
On Game Journalism and Awards (http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/journalism/on-game-journalism-and-awards-250765.php)

CAGbag (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71382)

Digg the CAGcast (http://www.digg.com/podcasts/CAGcast)
MySpace (http://www.myspace.com/cagcast)
CheapyD's Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/cheapyd) (Subscribe (http://www.youtube.com/subscription_center?add_user=CheapyD))
Twitter (http://www.twitter.com/cheapyd)

Outro: Sega Game Gear (http://gameads.gamepressure.com/tv_game_commercial.asp?ID=5449)

Bonus Videos/Pictures:
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/ymij/kitt/krbox.jpg http://www.cheapassgamer.com/ymij/kitt/smallkitt.jpg


Pontiac Phoenix (not ours, but ours was white too)
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/10/web/214000-214999/214521_3_full.jpg

[doomlv20]

Wooooo CAGcast! I looooooove you Cheapy!

[thorbahn3]

Yes, your parents are very Jewish sounding. "you call this dining?"

The reason the 20gb PS3 is going away is because Sony is dropping it. People want it, but Sony will lose more money.

You know what is good to compare all games with: price. You guys should know this.

[sonicfreak5]

i just listened to #70 an hour ago. lol. alright hopefully another good show.
been listening since #1

[ch3zyp00fs]

YAHOO new CAGCast.. something to listen to at the gym tomorrow.

[striker199]

perfect timing for a fresh cagcast, thanks cheapy

[gunm]

Tagged! Living my absurd toy fantasies vicariously though Cheapyd...

[daphatty]

Tagged for later comment. (Why does it always take so long to download these friggen things?!?!?!)

[HooHaa]

Downloading...

[CheapyD]

Tagged for later comment. (Why does it always take so long to download these friggen things?!?!?!) Because you live in a 3rd world country! I d/l it at around 400 kbps.

[yukine]

Nice! Thanks, Cheapy.

[zewone]

There is a XBLA game release this week: Boom Boom Rocket

[io]

Just finished listening guys. Good show, no complaints ;).

Nice to see Wombat is getting some use out of his Wii (finally). All potential or perceived puns intended...

I played through just the first two chapters of Super Paper Mario tonight (1-1 and 1-2). It is very wordy at the beginning and so far very simple but I'm assuming things will open up and get a bit more challenging very soon.

[zewone]

Congrats, rock on the job at 1up.

[CheapyD]

There is a XBLA game release this week: Boom Boom RocketYeah, it was announced right after we recorded the show...I just tried the demo....not so good.

[zewone]

Yeah, it was announced right after we recorded the show...I just tried the demo....not so good.
Yeah, I just finished the demo too. Pretty weak. I'll save my moneyz for Mortal Kombat 2 for PSN on Thursday.

[FriskyTanuki]

It was more of a long winded way of asking "why the fuck are you focusing on MTV and EA like the game's now doomed to failure because they're involved?" not "Fuck u. Harmonix roxxorz!! Tell me n ur voiceses!!!" like you guys assumed. Just spin this again so you sound like the good, logical guy, Wombat.

PS. The press release does mention the Rock Band peripherals. Here's the whole thing: CAMBRIDGE, MA - April 2, 2007 - Harmonix, developer of the blockbuster
Guitar Hero(tm) franchise, MTV: Music Television, a division of MTV
Networks, a unit of Viacom (NYSE: VIA, VIA.B), and Electronic Arts
(NASDAQ: ERTS) today announced Rock Band, an all-new platform for music
fans and gamers to interact with music like never before. Rock Band
will allow gamers to perform music from the world's biggest rock artists
with their friends as a virtual band using drum, bass/lead guitar and
microphone peripherals, in addition to offering deep online
connectivity. Built on unprecedented deals with the world's biggest
record labels and music publishers, the music featured in Rock Band will
span all genres of rock and include many of the master recordings from
the biggest songs and artists of all time. Rock Band is slated for
release on PLAYSTATION(r)3 computer entertainment system and Xbox
360(tm) video game and entertainment system from Microsoft(r) in holiday
2007.

The leading music publishers - EMI Music Publishing and Warner/Chappell
Music - are allowing unrivaled access to their catalogs of incredible
songs for use in Rock Band. The record labels - EMI Music, Hollywood
Records, Sony BMG Music Entertainment, Universal Music Group's Universal
Music Enterprises and Warner Music Group's Rhino Entertainment - have
agreed to supply master recordings by their artists for use in the game.

"Harmonix was founded to create new ways for everyone to experience the
pleasure and satisfaction that comes from playing music. Our work on
Guitar Hero was an instrumental step toward that goal," stated Alex
Rigopulos, co-founder and CEO of Harmonix. "But Rock Band is Harmonix's
most ambitious project to date, and it will take music gameplay to an
entirely new level. MTV has given us the freedom and the resources to
really swing for the fences and make the game we've always wanted to
make."

"Our vision for Rock Band is to completely change the way people
interact with and enjoy the music they love," said Jeff Yapp, EVP, MTV
Program Enterprises. "By joining forces with EA and the music
industry's largest record labels and publishers, we are striving to
create a groundbreaking new platform that allows people to connect with
their favorite music and artists in ways they never have before."

"Rock Band is a revolutionary new way for gamers and music fans to
experience music," said David DeMartini, vice president and general
manager of EA Partners. "The team at EA Partners is thrilled to help
MTV and Harmonix launch this incredible game on the global stage and get
it into the hands of gamers worldwide."

As previously announced, Electronic Arts will serve as the exclusive
distribution and marketing partner for Rock Band, managing distribution
for the game in US, Europe and Australia.

For more information on Rock Band and Harmonix Music Systems please
visit www.rockbandgame.com (http://www.rockbandgame.com) <http://www.rockbandgame.com/ (http://www.rockbandgame.com/)> and
www.harmonixmusic.com (http://www.harmonixmusic.com) <http://www.harmonixmusic.com/ (http://www.harmonixmusic.com/)> .

Nice choice by the misses for picking Super Mario Bros, Wombat. I never owned an NES and mostly only played it with emulators, so it was nice to be able to own it legally now and it's a lot of fun. It's probably the only other VC game besides Kirby's Adventure for me that still plays well to this day.

[hero101]

Why doesn't this d/l on itunes? Seems weird.

[gorgo]

Another good CAGCast... Cheapy/Wombat, got one comment and one discussion point for you:

Cheapy, thanks for recommending Saint's Row so highly... I bought it, my wife is now hooked (she mainly played GTA: San Andreas for the past few years), mostly on the online mode. I now can't touch my 360 and had to get her a separate LIVE account. Thanks a lot : ) I've barely gotten a chance to play it at all.

Discussion point: Shipwreck's comment about Galaga on virtual console, related to the easy and cheaper availability on Gamecube/PS2/Xbox compilations, brought up one of my pet peeves with backward compatibility.

I bought just about every old school game compilation there was for the Xbox, and find the fact that they aren't on the backward compat. list for the 360 suspicious. Obviously MS makes more money selling each of these on XBLA for cash, individually. Obviously, also, there is no way they'll release everything that way, so we're left out in the cold on some of our favorites, like Elevator Action, Sinistar, etc. Any way you could use some of your connections in the industry to try to pry an honest answer out of MS regarding this?

[SScorpio]

People sharing birthday's isn't really that amazing once you under stand the math. You only need a group of 23 people to have a 50% chance of a match and 30 people will make it increase to 70%. 57 people has a 99% chance of a match.

You can read about this at: http://www.math.hmc.edu/funfacts/ffiles/10001.6.shtml

[Jackal888]

All this Guitar Hero II talk reminded me about "Frets On Fire (http://louhi.kempele.fi/%7Eskyostil/uv/fretsonfire/)" a PC open source Guitar Hero Remake. The advantage this game has is threefold. First off its a free download. Second you can use your Xbox360 Guitar with it since Windows works with Microsoft controllers.Third is that there are tons of free downloadable songs online. Check it out.

PS More features

Includes a song editor for making your own tunes
Submit your scores to the World Charts (http://louhi.kempele.fi/%7Eskyostil/uv/fretsonfire/charts)
Hundreds of songs composed by the community
Supports importing Guitar Hero™ I and Guitar Hero™ II songs
Multiplatform; runs on Windows™, Linux®, Mac OS X™ and FreeBSD®

[Dingleberry]

This episode wasn't very enjoyable for me...No memorable parts and it just felt like nothing was really talked about other than Wombat's short lived poke at "journalists"

[ReussDr]

On the ESRB Issue discussed in the CAGCast:

"How does the rating process work?

Prior to a game being released to the public, game publishers submit responses to a detailed, written questionnaire (often supplementing responses with lyric sheets, scripts, etc.) specifying exactly what pertinent content will be in their game. Along with the written submission materials, publishers must provide a videotape or DVD which captures all pertinent content (as defined by ESRB), including the most extreme instances, across all relevant categories, including but not limited to violence, language, sex, controlled substances and gambling. Pertinent content that is not playable but will exist in the code on the final game disc must also be disclosed. Once the submission is checked by ESRB for completeness, which may also involve ESRB staff members playing a beta or alpha version of the game, the video footage is reviewed by at least three (and oftentimes more) specially trained game raters."

http://www.esrb.org/ratings/faq.jsp#14

In Rockstar's case, they would have been guilty under the new law because the content was on the shipping disc, but (obviously) not included in the submitted video to the ESRB.

This would really just place the onus on the publisher to submit an accurate video to the ESRB, and omitted language from the middle of the game would only be important for games that would otherwise receive an E rating.

[trip1eX]

Yeah cutscenes are way over-rated. Can't stand 'em personally.

Not sure about the comparison question. If you're comparing vastly different games well you're probably just doing it to start an argument. You see how well the 360 vs pS3 vs Wii arguments go. .... and so comparing flagship games across each system won't end up any better.

[KingBroly]

I'm surprised you guys with d/l problems just don't listen to the cast through the site. I mean, it's right there!

Cutscenes are overrated, but still not as much as voice acting, because the majority of the time the acting sucks. Voice acting will only be surpassed by cutscenes in this department when the majority of voice acting in games is good.

I give this episode a 9.5/10

[linkpwns]

Hmm, Is it wierd that I don't have an ipod (i prefer the Creative Zen Vision:M) and I still listen to podcasts? Oh well, nice, I will listen to this one while playing some Warcraft 3. I have became a huge fan of the CAGCast ever since I started listening at episode 65.

[sloof70]

When CheapyD and Wombat are discussing the Xbox 360 keypad, CheapyD says something that doesn't make sense. Before his opinion is drown out by Wombat's disruptiveness, CheapyD says, "sometimes you don't want to take the time to talk to somebody..." It's quicker to type out each word of a conversation to someone that speak it? Really? Because I'm pretty sure I could have said all that I just said in 30 seconds, while it took a couple minutes to type.

Of course, if CheapyD had typed that out, he would have had time to think about what he was saying before he said it.


Also, on the subject of comparisons, I don't think you can. Sure, the Xbox 360 or PS3 and Wii are both game consoles, but that's really all they have in common. That would be like comparing a Hummer to a Civic. Sure, you can compare the specs, but they each have their own distinct uses that are entirely different. It's the difference in the utilization of these consoles that voids all comparison, because the Wii and the other guys offer experiences so unique from eachother that they are virtually incomparable.

[bobthecat23]

cheapy lol at ur dad and burger king i thought that was funny more than embarassing and great show btw ppl stop bitching at wombat u dont have to like whatever comes out of his mouth o and LOL at ur story with ur phoenix and the mercedes thing

[MaxDense]

Of course it's fair to compare consoles. Right now, in the Spring of 2007, Nintendo offers the Wii, Microsoft offers the Xbox 360 and Sony offers the PS3, all vying for your hard earned dollars.
The Wii has poor graphics for no other reason than Nintendo chose to make it that way and frankly it's a strike against it. It does however offer a unique control scheme. The Miis are also a big plus.
Microsoft has a large library of games and the best online component by far. The achievement system is addictive and a lot of fun.
Sony has...well not much of anything yet but does show a lot of potential. They obviously agree about Miis and achievements since they're incorporating them into Home.
These are your choices right now. If your shopping for a console, the first thing you should do is compare the systems and make the purchase based on the features that are important to you.

[PlumeNoir]

I'm surprised you guys with d/l problems just don't listen to the cast through the site. I mean, it's right there!



Sometimes I have no problems, and sometimes it just won't make any download progress (via iTunes).

My drive into work is 1.5 hours, so instead of listening to it at a computer, I listen to it on the way in - that's why I won't hear it until tomorrow morning.

[JackFlash666]

Great show as always guys -
Wombat - I have also seen the HBO short series and thought that the Pick of Destiny was fucking hilarious! I don't understand how you could not like it - literally everone who I know who has seen it thought it was great...

[Temporaryscars]

Cheapy, if your TV can display 720p when playing using other inputs, then its resolution has to be high enough to support it. If you get 720p over componet, then you can get it over VGA, and that means you can upscale DVDs. Don't believe me? Ask the folks over at AVS forum.

Oh, and speaking of matching birth dates, Cheapy and I have the same birthdays! Hurray for me.

[evil_twin]

I don't know if this was ever bought up before, but you guys really need a 3rd host on the show.
I don't mean someone who is going to kiss Cheapy D. or Wombats ass, but someone who has his own opinions, gaming experience and personality.
Sometimes I listen to the pod cast and the both of you are bickering with each other and there is no one to jump in the middle of it.
Maybe CAG should hold some kind of auditions for a 3rd co-host.

[Milkyman]

hey cheapy i thought i'd drop a little hdtv info on ya

until very recently any plasma based hdtv under 50 inches has been 1024x728 (there are a couple 1024x1024 sets as well). they handle the aspect ratio by making those pixels rectangular instead of square like on other tvs and then the internal scaler handles the conversion so it looks right on your tv. We have similar tvs and on our panny plasmas when using the vga port its hard to get a full screen image without distortion because that input was designed for use with a pc. the 360 has an option for wide 1024x728 mode which will look perfectly fine on your screen.

they get away with calling this HD because technically, they have at least 720 vertical lines of resolution. plasmas still look great though so you should grab a cheap third party vga cable from play-asia and give it a shot.

[Temporaryscars]

hey cheapy i thought i'd drop a little hdtv info on ya

until very recently any plasma based hdtv under 50 inches has been 1024x728 (there are a couple 1024x1024 sets as well). they handle the aspect ratio by making those pixels rectangular instead of square like on other tvs and then the internal scaler handles the conversion so it looks right on your tv. We have similar tvs and on our panny plasmas when using the vga port its hard to get a full screen image without distortion because that input was designed for use with a pc. the 360 has an option for wide 1024x728 mode which will look perfectly fine on your screen.

they get away with calling this HD because technically, they have at least 720 vertical lines of resolution. plasmas still look great though so you should grab a cheap third party vga cable from play-asia and give it a shot.

Yeah...like I said...only more specific. :P

Anyway Cheapy, check this one out: http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-de-49-en-70-178e.html

I have that, and it rocks. Though, for the record, I used to have an even cheaper one off ebay, and it works just as well. I bought this one just to see if there was a difference, and there wasn't. If you do get it, i'd like to hear your opinion in a video review or on the cagcast.

[dadeisvenm]

This was our family car. At least you had four doors, Cheapy. :P

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/18/Go_Yugo.jpg/250px-Go_Yugo.jpg

The stories I could tell you.

[Milkyman]

Yeah...like I said...only more specific. :P

Anyway Cheapy, check this one out: http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-de-49-en-70-178e.html

I have that, and it rocks. Though, for the record, I used to have an even cheaper one off ebay, and it works just as well. I bought this one just to see if there was a difference, and there wasn't. If you do get it, i'd like to hear your opinion in a video review or on the cagcast.

heh, thats the price i paid for doing research before i bought a tv, i can't get this avsforum talk out of my head!

[CheapyD]

The point is kind of moot as my 360 is a USA model and the DVDs I rent won't play on it because of region coding.

Thanks for explaining it to me, though!

[SteveMcQ]

CheapyD, you were quite prophetic in hoping that we wouldn't get "hosed*" on the Guitar Hero II downloadable content. We have in our midsts a modern day, videogaming equivalent to Nostradamus--without the hair.

*"Hosed" wasn't the word you used and I'm just hoping CAGs wouldn't use that word in such a petty scenario as this one. It really bothers me that it's being thrown around in the other thread.

BTW, have you seen the new "Robocop" suit developed by the same guy who made the Mark VI Grizzly Bear suit?

The Trojan Suit (http://youtube.com/watch?v=mngefPbBEFY)

Edit: Well, that whole post was made prior to hearing Wombat call you Nostradamus as well. Perhaps there's something to this madness.

[yukine]

What's interesting, Cheapy, is that editorial you wrote in 2005 is the first thing I saw when I discovered CAG.

One day I was looking for deals on video games, and stumbled upon FatWallet and it linked to this site. Thankfully I didn't register for their website, and instead did so here.

[pelf21]

Good episode guys...I really enjoy listening to you guys every week...I like the video game talk but I also like the BS, your both very entertaining

[rogueweapon]

hey cheapy nice ride, you know what pontiac stands for right? I caught one of those news journalists dropping the s-bomb on abc. I was watching the news after LOST today and was treated to the very attractive Liz Cho talking dirty. check it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZRmT-Iqw0A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZRmT-Iqw0A)

[chfuji]

Speaking of the "s-bomb" Wombat's example (around 1:15:00 into the show) of a game waiting until halfway to out of nowhere drop an "s-bomb" got my brain tingling.

Wombat, did you by chance play "Vandal Hearts" for the PS1? I only ask because that game happens to do exactly that. Heck I can even name the character: Diego. And in all fairness his reason for the expletive was valid.

BTW, finally decided to join the party and I've yet to not enjoy a show. You can thank some of the posters over at ocremix.org for clueing me in as to you guys. Keep up the great work!

[PlumeNoir]

I find it kinda interesting the similarities Cheapy and I share (it must be the time period we are from, you know Sept 7 to 9, 1973). Not only did we have all the same systems growing up (I still have my telestar and TI99/4a in my basement), but my first car was a root beer colored '82 Pontiac Phoenix. (In addition to that, my mom actually owned a Pinto for some time.) Personally, I loved my Phoenix, even though it was a POS...but looking back, I was probably blinded the freedom it represented.

Oh yeah, and my best friend growing up - his birthday was May 2nd, as was a dominatrix I used to be close to. (I once read a story that the chances are really good that if you take a group of 15 or so people, two of them will have the same birthday.)

Anyway, I started listening on the way into work (I listened to the Joystiq one first) and will probably finish listening to the latest CAGcast on the way home.

[redline]

Cheapy, you take your DS into the bathroom with you?... SICK!!

One time I caught my wife with my GBA in the bathroom and I went ballistic. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a germ-phobe or anything but things you touch on a continuing basis (that don't get washed or cleaned) shouldn't be in close proximity to poo. Magazines, OK.... handhelds, no way!

[Nutts]

Hey Guys. Good job with the last podcast.

I would like to comment on the Guitar Hero II discussion you guys were having. You both seem convinced that just because the guitar has a microphone jack that there will be an online patch released later. While this could be true, and that would be cool, I really don't think this will happen. I think that the jack is only there to support Guitar Hero III which will most definately offer online play. I'm guessing that Red Octane just had the foresight to include the connections needed for future Guitar Hero games, into the controller. This could also explain the instructions that mention foot pedals. Again, I'm going to say that the 3rd version of the game may have another accessory like a foot pedal and will start to implement that tool into the gameplay at that time.

Here's hoping that I'm wrong, but my feeling is that adding either of those two rumored items as dl content for GHII is just not possible. Besides, they have new developer's trying to learn and tweak the code for GHIII, and they probably don't have the time to make major changes like that.

Keep up the good work.

[Tybee]

sca·tol·o·gy
Pronunciation: ska-'tä-l&-jE, sk&-
Function: noun
Etymology: Greek skat-, skOr excrement; akin to Old English scearn dung, Latin muscerdae mouse droppings
1 : interest in or treatment of obscene matters especially in literature
2 : the biologically oriented study of excrement (as for taxonomic purposes or for the determination of diet)
- scat·o·log·i·cal /"ska-t&l-'ä-ji-k&l/ adjective

Kind of a low-key show, but a good one.

You can, of course, compare any two (or more) games you want. The crux of the argument is the particular aspect of the games that you're comparing. Obviously, comparing the graphics of a Wii game to those of a PS3 game is a waste of time. But comparing games on those same systems in terms of their art design may not be. And you can compare the overall experience of playing a game on any system you like. To cite a common comparison, I enjoyed Link’s Awakening on the original Game Boy more than I did Ocarina of Time on the Nintendo 64. They’re both Zelda games (and people often ask "What is your favorite Zelda game?" disregarding the system), but obviously they’re very different in most other respects. You were asking if it’s fair to compare Mario Galaxy to Halo 3. I think it is, if you’re comparing them in terms of what they represent to their respective companies financially and philisophically. But trying to compare pure gameplay, or graphics, or specifics like this is silly and pointless. The very act of comparing games is a purely subjective exercise anyway, so who’s to say what’s fair and what isn’t?

I think Cheapy and Wombat both make good points when it comes to the term “game journalism.” In a lot of ways, as Cheapy said, it comes down to semantics. Whether you use the term “criticism,” “journalism,” “press,” or “media,” it’s all fundamentally the same thing. I don’t think most video game “journalists” take themselves any more or less seriously than film, tv, or book critics. That said, I think Wombat has a point in that game journalists are often a little too cozy with and beholden to the industry they cover. Unfortunately, that’s the way the industry seems to work at this point, and I don’t see any strong impetus for it to change any time soon.

[ElfAngel7]

I was enjoying the show until I got to Wombat's ludicrous remarks about video game journalism. I strongly disagree with him and think he's being incredibly short sighted. While mags and websites do get some of their information from press releases and have to sign NDA's, don't blame the industry as a whole for a couple of lazy publications. It's up to the journlists themselves to give their views of what they saw and how it could effect the reader.

What about mags like Rolling Stone and Entertainment Weekly? When they go to a movie set and talk with the actors, are they not covering the progress of a work of entertainment to an audience that is willing to hear about it? It's the same as EGM going to Silicon Knights and talking to David Dydack (however you spell that) about the progess of Too Human. They ask the questions that their readers want to know and it's up to them to get interesting and informative information to print.

[Temporaryscars]

I was going to let it slide, but I just can't stand it!

Yes, Wombat, the HBO series was very good, but the movie is just as good! Come on! Which part didn't you like exactly? The awesome beginning with Meatloaf and Dio. FUCKING DIO! It was awesome. I find it hard to believe that you liked the HBO series and then didn't like the movie. How long has it been since you've seen the show? Perhaps your tastes in comdey have changed (read: gotten stale) in the time between the show and the movie.

Cheapy, don't listen to him. See the movie. In fact, i'll send you the money via paypal to use to rent the movie. I have that much faith that you'll find it funny.

Wombat Liberation Army? More like Wombat LAMEberation Army!

[GF_Eric]

Of all the things I have disagreed with Wombat about (which is pretty much everything), him not liking The Pick of Destiny is particularly inexcusable.

[Tybee]

Hey Cheapy:

You've already got KITT in two sizes. Why not splash out for the real deal?

KITT, the actual Potiac Trans Am used in Knight Rider, being sold for $150,000 in Dublin, Calif. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17918356)

[MarvinTacoma]

Why would anyone think Epic was lying about wanting the new Gears content to be free? They've put out free content for their PC games for years, it's not really far-fetched to think they'd want to do the same for a 360 game.

[Indiana]

Someone may have already said this, but the ESRB does not play the games. They are provided clips of the "worst stuff" in the game. So basically if you are submitting a game you have to provide clips of this stuff to the ESRB. Basically GTA SA failed to show the sex mini-games.

I read this in an article about the ESRB once. If I can find it I will provide a link.

[FriskyTanuki]

Someone may have already said this, but the ESRB does not play the games. They are provided clips of the "worst stuff" in the game. So basically if you are submitting a game you have to provide clips of this stuff to the ESRB. Basically GTA SA failed to show the sex mini-games.

I read this in an article about the ESRB once. If I can find it I will provide a link.
That's because it wasn't part of the game. You had to hack it to get to the sex mini-games.

[Lobsterjohnson]

I normally enjoy the show as a whole and really enjoy it when you guys bring on special guests. However, it really annoys me when you guys bring up feedback and CAGbag questions such as this:

CAGmember: Why do you guys hate <this>?

Cheapy: We don't hate <this>

It's honestly a waste of time, in fact don't even bring up this in the feedback. Just please, stop doing it.

[Chacrana]

I normally enjoy the show as a whole and really enjoy it when you guys bring on special guests. However, it really annoys me when you guys bring up feedback and CAGbag questions such as this:

CAGmember: Why do you guys hate <this>?

Cheapy: We don't hate <this>

It's honestly a waste of time, in fact don't even bring up this in the feedback. Just please, stop doing it.

What do you suggest instead?

[Lobsterjohnson]

What do you suggest instead?
I just think it would trim the show down a little bit and make the whole experience more enjoyable. It seems as if when they confront this feedback the show begins to drag. It's just unnecessary. Get to the sweet stuff and get out!

[Chacrana]

I just think it would trim the show down a little bit and make the whole experience enjoyable. It seems as if when they confront this feedback the show begins to drag. It's just unnecessary. Get to the sweet stuff and get out!

Ha! That question was a ploy! Now you have 667 posts instead of 666, you sadist fucking prick!

Err... and seriously, there's a lot of stuff that could be trimmed from the show... everything from some of the CAGBag questions to Wombat's chronic masturbation.

[qbkorso]

Great show guys! You should really say my name on the show next week ;)

Wombat!! Do that giggle again.

I hope I am becoming a great CAG.

[Chacrana]

Great show guys! You should really say my name on the show next week ;)

Wombat!! Do that giggle again.

I hope I am becoming a great CAG.

You are in Naperville, and thus, the second CAG ever from that area... because I never see any CAGs here. So that makes you a great CAG.

[qbkorso]

You are in Naperville, and thus, the second CAG ever from that area... because I never see any CAGs here. So that makes you a great CAG.
Sweet another Napervillian. Anyways, I go to school here at Southern Illinois University Carbondale. When to high school at Bolingbrook High School. I just moved to Naperville after the graduation. Anyways, are you still in high school or in college somewhere or maybe even older? Maybe we should move this conversation over to a PM.

PS. Your the best CAGer ;) I should add you on Xbox Live as well.

[JDUB X]

Hi CheapyD, Hi Wombat

Love the show

On the topic of Game Publishers hiding explicit content from the ESRB: The way it actually works is that the ESRB does not actually play the game themselves. Publishers submit a Video to the ESRB that details the objectional content found in the title. Then after a selected pannel of judges views the video, they assign a ESRB rating. So the Judges do not have to reach a certain point or level in the game to find the content because it is presented to them. So this means that revealing any "Hidden" explicit content is fully the responsibliity of the Publisher.

This was atleast how it was a year ago, and I dont think it has changed.

As I said, I love the Show and look foward to it every week. Keep up the Amazing work.

[LiK]

pretty hilarious, Cheapy and Wombat got some good deals.

Cheapy got free dinner (paid them back yet?) and Wombat got to see 300 free. best deals evar. :applause:

[G-Dog]

I just wanted to chime in with my opinion on the donkey humping mess that is gaming 'journalism'.


I'm a 28 year old father, and the current state of video game coverage baffles me. I paid for my first EGM subscription in 1993, and at that time the magazine was great. News, reviews, previews, industry commentary, it was a great magazine and the writing staff was informative and mature. I moved from magazines to web based coverage in the late 90's, and by 99 I noticed that gaming 'journalists' were beginning to write more immaturely. More and more grade school toilet humor, pissing fights, and childish rants started working their way into published work.


I reached my breaking point last year. I was listening to a popular video game podcast, and a well known editor in the industry was having a pissing fight with a peer and started screaming “ISN'T THAT NEXT GEN AS FUCK?! ISN'T THAT NEXT GEN AS FUCK?!” I immediately cut all the video game related pod casts from my download routine and stopped visiting their respective websites.


You guys are correct when you said that most of these people are video game critics, not journalists. However after reading, watching, and listening to their published content they all come off as pompous elitists that, in reality, do nothing more than regurgitate press releases and document a few hours spent with the latest elf simulator.


That brings me to CAG and the CAGCast. You and Wombat don't act like under appreciated scholars who are so wrapped up in your own sense of self worth that you're unable to see the forest from the trees. You are average guys with a normal gaming budget and a limited amount of time a day to play games. You don't insult my statistically average intelligence, and I don't feel embarrassed listening to your show.

[PyroGamer]

First off, good podcast. A bit slow this time, but good parts.

I was running the cagcast on my 360, and since there's no fast-foward option on the 360 for MP3s I watched an episode of Seinfeld while leaving the cagcast going. When I flipped to my 360 input I hear cheapy say:

"I was in the bathroom playing the game, leveling up, about to drop of my kids. I was very close to leveling up, you know, so I just kept going until I leveled up."

If you have as nearly a sick a mind as I do, you can understand what I thought you were saying :D


Also, I don't think To Catch a Predator would work in Japan, considering the widespread abuse of teenage girls. It's a bit more common there from what I hear. And besides, you could always take a trip to Thai if you wanted some young goods legally.



Also Wombat, checking the 1up site and saying "all they have is previews" shows just how riddiculous your ignorance on the subject is. Please just shut up when you don't know what you're talking about. I like you Wombat, but you get pretty annoying now and again.

Not to say your points weren't valid or interesting. They were, and I'm glad you brought them up.

[ivanctorres]

Very good podcast this week guys.

I tend to agree with Wombat's Burrow this week. I have a really issue with game "journalists" romantacizing their job. They are clearly just critics. There is very little journalism, if any, involved in what these guys do.

I think it boils down to the need of these game "journalists" to feel imporant. You write about games for a living! Your not curing cancer!

I love the gaming but I just hate when these people hold themselves up to a pedestal and swear what they are doing is journalism.

The community as a whole has this problem but I will cut some slack to 1up as they at the very least try to do some actual "journalism" when a story breaks and people want answers, i.e. GH2 downloadable songs and the GOW maps.

Cheapy-I don't know about you but if the most embarassing thing in your life was your parents saying "this isn't dining in" then you have lived a good life.

Next week you guys must adddress the GH2 microtransaction fiasco and Major Nelson's assanine comments about MS's rationale for the cost.

[gmoney1234567890]

yes. your parents sound jewey. its ok, so do mine. Oh, and I think GOW2 feels easier for one reason because the game doesn't send wave after wave of bad guys at the player as much now.

[ReussDr]

In the most recent CAGCast, you talked about whether you could compare games from different platforms.

Regardless of whether you think you should, or it's fair, ultimately you have to. Everyone's ability to game is either restricted by money or time. When I choose to play Crackdown or Gears on my 360, I'm choosing to play it instead of the games I have for other consoles. For those of us who don't have a huge backlog of games that haven't been played, you're still making that choice whenever you buy a new game.

Take God of War 2, Oblivion and Zelda: Twilight Princess. They're different, but not in completely different game spaces (like comparing shooters to racers). Given the choice, which one would you play? Which one would you recommend to someone else?

It's difficult, but ultimately necessary to be able to stack games from one system against those on another. While it runs the risk of upsetting fanboys to make those decisions publicly, those are ultimately the questions that we have to answer even time we drive to the store, or sit down for a gaming session.

-ReussDr

[Klank]

Wombat after listening to this cast I just wanted to say that yeh I agree paying for live for the PC really does suck. However its not like the consoles where the company has to be a part of it to put out a game. What Epic was saying is that they are not going to have live support in their games because they feel that stuff like online play and map downloads ect.. should be free. Its not like all PC games have to be Live compatable it just means that they can't go cross platform and no achevements and stuff like that. PC games have never needed stuff like that and the multi play has always been great.

[dubbfoolio]

People sharing birthday's isn't really that amazing once you under stand the math. You only need a group of 23 people to have a 50% chance of a match and 30 people will make it increase to 70%. 57 people has a 99% chance of a match.

You can read about this at: http://www.math.hmc.edu/funfacts/ffiles/10001.6.shtml
This isn't the probablilty that two people share a specific birthday though. :) We should have more threads about statistics on CAG.

[willardhaven]

Can someone tell me the business ideas mentioned in the CAGCasts as referred to in episode 70?

Out of date question, but I just listened to 70 today.

[maggoty]

I was enjoying the show until I got to Wombat's ludicrous remarks about video game journalism. I strongly disagree with him and think he's being incredibly short sighted. While mags and websites do get some of their information from press releases and have to sign NDA's, don't blame the industry as a whole for a couple of lazy publications. It's up to the journlists themselves to give their views of what they saw and how it could effect the reader.

What about mags like Rolling Stone and Entertainment Weekly? When they go to a movie set and talk with the actors, are they not covering the progress of a work of entertainment to an audience that is willing to hear about it? It's the same as EGM going to Silicon Knights and talking to David Dydack (however you spell that) about the progess of Too Human. They ask the questions that their readers want to know and it's up to them to get interesting and informative information to print.
ya see... this is where I totally agree with Wombat %110. A journalist definetly seeks out news items and doesn't wait for the story to come to them. What you're saying is not a journalist at all.
And I think he's talking about a journalist in the purest form.
In regards to your example of David going to Silicon Knights to get info about the 'too human' game. While he maybe asking questions and what not about the game, he did not find out about the game himself. They released information saying they're making this new game and probably invite these guys to ask questions about it.
If he had some inside info and released details about the game before the publisher even when public with it, now thats journalism.

Cheers

[AshesofWake]

I think Wombat's view on video game critics was 100% correct. A perfect example of this is "previews." Why in the flying fuck is every single preview for a game positive? If there are flaws they should address them fully and then when a game is released review it honestly.

[MarvinTacoma]

ya see... this is where I totally agree with Wombat %110. A journalist definetly seeks out news items and doesn't wait for the story to come to them. What you're saying is not a journalist at all.
And I think he's talking about a journalist in the purest form.
In regards to your example of David going to Silicon Knights to get info about the 'too human' game. While he maybe asking questions and what not about the game, he did not find out about the game himself. A journalist doesn't have to be a person who seeks out news. A journalist is a person who collects or reports/writes the news. That's all it takes to be a journalist by defition of nearly any dictionary out there.

They released information saying they're making this new game and probably invite these guys to ask questions about it.
If he had some inside info and released details about the game before the publisher even when public with it, now thats journalism.

CheersAnd that does happen, but it's almost always presented as things we like to call "rumors." Are you forgetting Kotaku reporting "Home" as a rumor? Or maybe the Zephyr rumors? There are countless examples like these, but they're almost never reported on as anything more than a rumor until the audience can be convinced with an official announcement.

[FriskyTanuki]

I think Wombat's view on video game critics was 100% correct. A perfect example of this is "previews." Why in the flying fuck is every single preview for a game positive? If there are flaws they should address them fully and then when a game is released review it honestly.
Because things can be fixed before release. Why be an asshole and not give the developers the benefit of the doubt? If they don't fix it, the review can rip them apart fair and square.

[yukine]

I think Wombat's view on video game critics was 100% correct. A perfect example of this is "previews." Why in the flying fuck is every single preview for a game positive? If there are flaws they should address them fully and then when a game is released review it honestly.

Negativity is saved for the actual review of the game, typically when game critics are previewing a game they are only seeing the game being played or getting their impressions from a video. Hell, sometimes it's not even the final version of the game.

Like Cheapy/Wombat, they hold their judgment until they can actually sit down and review it fairly.

[yukine]

What's fair to compare? It depends. Comparing any Wii game to that of the 360/PS3 from a graphical standpoint is a bit ridiculous.

Instead of comparing, lets say... the graphics of Halo 3 to that of Metroid Prime 3. A more fair comparison would be comparing the gameplay and controls instead. The 360/PS3 are always going to beat the Wii in graphics, sound, online play, physics, just about anything! The only thing the Wii has that's even remotely fair in comparing is in controls.

In the end: Don't compare Wii games to 360/PS3's games. The Wii is a severely underpowered console, it's main purpose is to give us a different way of controlling games and to be used as a testing ground for new and creative ideas from Nintendo (and third party developers once they stop being lazy.) Not as a main console to play everything else in a more traditional fashion.

You wouldn't compare the running speed of a cripple (Wii) to that of a Olympic athlete (360/PS3), would you?

[AshesofWake]

Because things can be fixed before release. Why be an asshole and not give the developers the benefit of the doubt? If they don't fix it, the review can rip them apart fair and square.



they shouldn't be showing off unfinished products then in the first place. There's been numerous occasions where the preview has been pretty much exactly the same as the final version. A good example of this was Driver 3. Countless previews blowing their load on how amazing this game will be and what not. I know I have a few EGMs and other mags previewing this game non-stop. And then when it was released, one of the shittiest games ever.

If there are flaws in the early builds, the "journalists" should bring it up, not mention it all. Under those circumstances at least we know what to look for to be fixed later on.

[crazytalkx]

Completely agree with you Wombat, on the topic of video game journalism. Websites like Kotaku, Destructoid, and Joystiq are basically copy-pasting articles/previews/etc although there are some rare moments of occasional originality, and these websites tend to make news more convenient to find for gamers but the end result is a Diet Coke of journalism.

[Tybee]

Wow...I'd be interested to hear what qualifies some of you to make pronouncements on what makes a journalist and what doesn't. Just because you saw "All the President's Men" doesn't mean you know how the job works. Investigative journalism is one thing, but frankly, the vast majority of working journalists depend upon press releases, PR contacts, and other traditional outlets to be alerted to news. It's not all Deep Throat and digging through the trash. Get a fucking grip.

That said, the game industry in particular seems to have a problem with just regurgitating what they're fed with very little analysis. But that's a problem in all circles. Hell, half the reason we ended up in Iraq is because the press became little more than a mouthpiece for the Bush administration in the buildup to the war.

[ReussDr]

What's fair to compare? It depends. Comparing any Wii game to that of the 360/PS3 from a graphical standpoint is a bit ridiculous.

Instead of comparing, lets say... the graphics of Halo 3 to that of Metroid Prime 3. A more fair comparison would be comparing the gameplay and controls instead. The 360/PS3 are always going to beat the Wii in graphics, sound, online play, physics, just about anything! The only thing the Wii has that's even remotely fair in comparing is in controls.

In the end: Don't compare Wii games to 360/PS3's games. The Wii is a severely underpowered console, it's main purpose is to give us a different way of controlling games and to be used as a testing ground for new and creative ideas from Nintendo (and third party developers once they stop being lazy.) Not as a main console to play everything else in a more traditional fashion.

You wouldn't compare the running speed of a cripple (Wii) to that of a Olympic athlete (360/PS3), would you?

Graphics aren't the entire game, but they are part of the package, so they have to be included in the comparison.

You don't compare the running speed of a cripple against an Olympic athlete because they're not in the same race. Your analogy doesn't hold up because Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony are all competing for your gaming dollar.

I own both a 360 and a Wii, and though I play the Wii on occassion, I play on my 360 a lot more. It's partially due to the fact that there aren't any games available on the Wii for less than $25 whereas the 360 has quite a few good games at that price point. That should change by the end of this year, when some of the launch titles are available as Player's Choice titles.

Regardless of the power of the base console, Nintendo's games will be selling for a similar price point to the 360 and PS3 games. Some people will buy games because they only have a Wii, but for multi-platform gamers they're going to have to make games that are good enough to compete against the best other platforms have to offer.

Whether you should or shouldn't compare is really a non-issue because at the end of the day you have to compare them in order to decide which games you'll buy and play.

[yukine]

Graphics aren't the entire game, but they are part of the package, so they have to be included in the comparison.

You don't compare the running speed of a cripple against an Olympic athlete because they're not in the same race. Your analogy doesn't hold up because Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony are all competing for your gaming dollar.

I own both a 360 and a Wii, and though I play the Wii on occassion, I play on my 360 a lot more. It's partially due to the fact that there aren't any games available on the Wii for less than $25 whereas the 360 has quite a few good games at that price point. That should change by the end of this year, when some of the launch titles are available as Player's Choice titles.

Regardless of the power of the base console, Nintendo's games will be selling for a similar price point to the 360 and PS3 games. Some people will buy games because they only have a Wii, but for multi-platform gamers they're going to have to make games that are good enough to compete against the best other platforms have to offer.

Whether you should or shouldn't compare is really a non-issue because at the end of the day you have to compare them in order to decide which games you'll buy and play.
Precisely. They are not in the same race, and thus shouldn't be compared. From the very, very beginning Nintendo stated that the Wii isn't in direct competition against the 360/PS3. Now perhaps in some way they are, as they are taking money from costumers. But in terms of physical performance (my analogy) they are very different.

The cost of games is irrelevant, price isn't an indication of quality. All companies are out for your money, but they each have different strategies in obtaining it.

When buying your Wii games, I'd like to think that you didn't compare the graphics to Legend of Zelda to that of Oblivion? When you're buying a Wii game, it's all about if it's intriguing and if it uses the Wii controller in a very interesting and creative way. I don't think people go "Well... I can spend $10.00 dollars more and get a game with uber realistic graphics!" it's a minimal factor, if any.

Like I said, at least in terms of games that are exclusive to the Wii, comparing graphics isn't very fair at all. But whether it's fair or not, people are going to do it anyway as it's the first thing they see.


Points I'm trying to make:

Comparing multi-platform games on the Wii to the ones on 360/PS3, in the most part is fair. If anyone is buying a multi-platform game on the Wii, it's going to be for controls and not graphics anyway.

Comparing exclusive titles to the Wii in comparison to 360/PS3 games, isn't fair. However, I think some things are fair to compare... gameplay, story, and perhaps even control (if you think comparing the motion controls to the non motion controls of the 360 as fair.) I just think most things on the technical side (graphics, sound, what have you) isn't.

Of course, I'm not a definitive authority on any of this. People will judge and compare games (and other things) in whatever way they so please. I was merely answering Wombat's question, of what is fair and what isn't. And in my opinion, the above is what's fair.

[ReussDr]

Precisely. They are not in the same race, and thus shouldn't be compared. From the very, very beginning Nintendo stated that the Wii isn't in direct competition against the 360/PS3. Now perhaps in some way they are, as they are taking money from costumers. But in terms of physical performance (my analogy) they are very different.

The cost of games is irrelevant, price isn't an indication of quality. All companies are out for your money, but they each have different strategies in obtaining it.

When buying your Wii games, I'd like to think that you didn't compare the graphics to Legend of Zelda to that of Oblivion? When you're buying a Wii game, it's all about if it's intriguing and if it uses the Wii controller in a very interesting and creative way. I don't think people go "Well... I can spend $10.00 dollars more and get a game with uber realistic graphics!" it's a minimal factor, if any.

Like I said, at least in terms of games that are exclusive to the Wii, comparing graphics isn't very fair at all. But whether it's fair or not, people are going to do it anyway as it's the first thing they see.


Points I'm trying to make:

Comparing multi-platform games on the Wii to the ones on 360/PS3, in the most part is fair. If anyone is buying a multi-platform game on the Wii, it's going to be for controls and not graphics anyway.

Comparing exclusive titles to the Wii in comparison to 360/PS3 games, isn't fair. However, I think some things are fair to compare... gameplay, story, and perhaps even control (if you think comparing the motion controls to the non motion controls of the 360 as fair.) I just think most things on the technical side (graphics, sound, what have you) isn't.

Of course, I'm not a definitive authority on any of this. People will judge and compare games (and other things) in whatever way they so please. I was merely answering Wombat's question, of what is fair and what isn't. And in my opinion, the above is what's fair.

See, it's because of the fact that you have to regularly compare the titles that you should. It's not optional, and just something that you must do.

If a friend of yours has a PS3, 360 and Wii, which one would you recommend him to buy, and on which platform? The answer may vary from person to person, but you ultimately have to answer that question. Or alternately if they have neither a 360, PS3 nor a Wii, which would you recommend to them? Won't your answer primarily be a reflection of the first party games available on the platform compared to the other?

I get that you can't boil down every single game to a simple numerical value and the higher numbered game isn't always better for all people, but if you're trying to decide between Oblivion, God of War 2, and Zelda: TP you need to be receiving recommendations from people that are capable of comparing them. You may recommend a different game to me than someone else, but ultimately you're comparing the strengths and weaknesses of each game.

[FriskyTanuki]

they shouldn't be showing off unfinished products then in the first place. There's been numerous occasions where the preview has been pretty much exactly the same as the final version. A good example of this was Driver 3. Countless previews blowing their load on how amazing this game will be and what not. I know I have a few EGMs and other mags previewing this game non-stop. And then when it was released, one of the shittiest games ever.

If there are flaws in the early builds, the "journalists" should bring it up, not mention it all. Under those circumstances at least we know what to look for to be fixed later on.
It depends on the type of preview. Some are just informative previews that reveal details and don't really slam games for being rough around the edges, which tends to be the early previews that you're probably referring to. Others are more of impressions that tend to appear as the game nears it's release date and the detrimental flaws can be written about more critically and then expanded upon in the review. I don't recall saying that flaws shouldn't be mentioned at all, but the importance of mentioning them depends on where the game's at in the development cycle. Right now, Lair's nearing release in about 2 months and the shaky framerate is being mentioned a bit, but that's not something that's a big deal just yet as that's something that gets taken care of at the end of the development cycle.

Sometimes developers don't have that much say in when they show off their games, like Too Human for example. Microsoft wanted a demo for E3 and as the SK guys added one last feature, it broke the demo and wasn't able to be fixed in time. Dennis Dyack took the critical bashings a little too personal and is now calling for the end of previews of unfinished games, which is quite the extreme position to take.

Driv3r is more of an anomaly more than anything else. It had good will from the press due to the first two games being really good, so they gave it the benefit of the doubt at first. The delays piled up and the game became a sinkhole ($60 million in development and marketing cost) and was universally panned. I've read a few previews (from GS) for it and they mention some rough spots about six months before release while the pre-release previews were very shaky about it by saying that your hopes shouldn't be too high (like comparing it to GTAIII). As a result, Parallel Lines got very little coverage and slipped through the cracks despite being a pretty good game and now Ubisoft owns the series.

[yukine]

See, it's because of the fact that you have to regularly compare the titles that you should. It's not optional, and just something that you must do.

If a friend of yours has a PS3, 360 and Wii, which one would you recommend him to buy, and on which platform? The answer may vary from person to person, but you ultimately have to answer that question. Or alternately if they have neither a 360, PS3 nor a Wii, which would you recommend to them? Won't your answer primarily be a reflection of the first party games available on the platform compared to the other?

I get that you can't boil down every single game to a simple numerical value and the higher numbered game isn't always better for all people, but if you're trying to decide between Oblivion, God of War 2, and Zelda: TP you need to be receiving recommendations from people that are capable of comparing them. You may recommend a different game to me than someone else, but ultimately you're comparing the strengths and weaknesses of each game.
I understand that you have to make comparisons on exclusive games sometimes, especially on this site, since we don't have an unlimited amount of cash to spend on every game. But graphics (my main gripe) isn't the first thing that comes to mind if I was to compare those three games, it would be gameplay more than anything. This is where a lot of people differ, some are going to compare the graphics first whether it's a fair thing to do or not. Others will compare gameplay, some will compare absolutely everything to a fine detail.

[Finn123]

Cheapy and Wombat

I write in defense of cut scenes in response to Wombat's statement that if a game uses cut scenes, the game isn't doing its job in telling the story.

I just finished God of War, yes the first one, over the weekend. I put it at the top of the list of games that have beautiful cut scenes (rendered in this case) and are truly integral to advancing the story. I can't imagine the story of Kratos being told any other way. Does anyone really think that story colud of have told any other way? The approach also added the cinematic feel the developers wanted to boot.

Sure that's one example, but I know you like short messages anyway. In short, the in-game cinematics should be judged like graphics, gameplay, multi-player implementation, etc.; judged on how they add or detract from the enjoyment of the game. It is that simple.

Wombat should loosen up on this one.

Dr. Strangepork

[ReussDr]

I understand that you have to make comparisons on exclusive games sometimes, especially on this site, since we don't have an unlimited amount of cash to spend on every game. But graphics (my main gripe) isn't the first thing that comes to mind if I was to compare those three games, it would be gameplay more than anything. This is where a lot of people differ, some are going to compare the graphics first whether it's a fair thing to do or not. Others will compare gameplay, some will compare absolutely everything to a fine detail.

Eh... I'm fine with comparing graphics. I'm a gameplay person myself, but I know quite a few people that focus on graphics. If you value graphics highly, then that comparison will mean a lot to you, and the comparisons will be helpful to driving their decision. I wouldn't like to see every game on the Wii completely dismissed for graphical reasons, but they wouldn't like to see some of the more graphic intensive games completely dismissed by me because I focus on gameplay.

People know what they're getting with the Wii, and most graphics oriented people simply don't by one as a result. Between the Wii, GameCube, DS and GBA, Nintendo has set a pretty constant trend of focusing on gameplay over graphics, and it's easy for people that are very excited about graphics to just ignore their products.

To tie in another topic, perhaps this is exactly where the "journalists" in the Video Game Industry can earn their keep, by focusing their reviews on different systems to make good recommendations for what type of people they recommend each game for and why.

[G-Dog]

More about gaming "Journalism". My favorite is when a website/magazine gives a game a reletivily high score, then the EXACT SAME MEDIA OUTLET later chastises the game, calling it "Fucking Terrible" Two examples of this are Jak II and Test Drive: Unlimited. Again, this is one of the reasons why I don't bother with 1up, gamespot, gamespy, or any magazine anymore.

[G-Dog]

Eh... I'm fine with comparing graphics. I'm a gameplay person myself, but I know quite a few people that focus on graphics. If you value graphics highly, then that comparison will mean a lot to you, and the comparisons will be helpful to driving their decision. I wouldn't like to see every game on the Wii completely dismissed for graphical reasons, but they wouldn't like to see some of the more graphic intensive games completely dismissed by me because I focus on gameplay.

People know what they're getting with the Wii, and most graphics oriented people simply don't by one as a result. Between the Wii, GameCube, DS and GBA, Nintendo has set a pretty constant trend of focusing on gameplay over graphics, and it's easy for people that are very excited about graphics to just ignore their products.

To tie in another topic, perhaps this is exactly where the "journalists" in the Video Game Industry can earn their keep, by focusing their reviews on different systems to make good recommendations for what type of people they recommend each game for and why.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If graphics are so damn important, why aren't the vast majority of gamers just watching tech demo's?

[G-Dog]

It depends on the type of preview. Some are just informative previews that reveal details and don't really slam games for being rough around the edges, which tends to be the early previews that you're probably referring to. Others are more of impressions that tend to appear as the game nears it's release date and the detrimental flaws can be written about more critically and then expanded upon in the review. I don't recall saying that flaws shouldn't be mentioned at all, but the importance of mentioning them depends on where the game's at in the development cycle. Right now, Lair's nearing release in about 2 months and the shaky framerate is being mentioned a bit, but that's not something that's a big deal just yet as that's something that gets taken care of at the end of the development cycle.

Sometimes developers don't have that much say in when they show off their games, like Too Human for example. Microsoft wanted a demo for E3 and as the SK guys added one last feature, it broke the demo and wasn't able to be fixed in time. Dennis Dyack took the critical bashings a little too personal and is now calling for the end of previews of unfinished games, which is quite the extreme position to take.

Driv3r is more of an anomaly more than anything else. It had good will from the press due to the first two games being really good, so they gave it the benefit of the doubt at first. The delays piled up and the game became a sinkhole ($60 million in development and marketing cost) and was universally panned. I've read a few previews (from GS) for it and they mention some rough spots about six months before release while the pre-release previews were very shaky about it by saying that your hopes shouldn't be too high (like comparing it to GTAIII). As a result, Parallel Lines got very little coverage and slipped through the cracks despite being a pretty good game and now Ubisoft owns the series.


I lost all faith in previews back in 1993, when EGM spent two months talking up the Sega CD game Silpheed before it was released. They went on and on with their 'Star Fox Killer' banter, throwing around things like 'revolutionary' 'amazing' and 'possible game of the year'. When the game comes out, it gets a 6, and was never spoken of again. They did the same thing with the crappy Strider sequel. After that, I just assume every game is garbage until I actually play it.

[MarvinTacoma]

I lost all faith in previews back in 1993, when EGM spent two months talking up the Sega CD game Silpheed before it was released. They went on and on with their 'Star Fox Killer' banter, throwing around things like 'revolutionary' 'amazing' and 'possible game of the year'. When the game comes out, it gets a 6, and was never spoken of again. They did the same thing with the crappy Strider sequel. After that, I just assume every game is garbage until I actually play it.:applause:Brilliant logic there, champ. So you found a couple of previews you disagreed with so they must ALL be wrong now, huh? Let me guess, editors at websites/magazines are robots who can never possibly make a mistake once in a while? I didn't realize perfection came along with being an editor.

More about gaming "Journalism". My favorite is when a website/magazine gives a game a reletivily high score, then the EXACT SAME MEDIA OUTLET later chastises the game, calling it "fucking Terrible" Two examples of this are Jak II and Test Drive: Unlimited. Again, this is one of the reasons why I don't bother with 1up, gamespot, gamespy, or any magazine anymore.Tell me, how many people work for any given news outlet? Are you, for some strange reason, assuming the answer is...one? Or do you think "Editor A" must agree with "Editor B" on everything? Because, after all, they work at the same place, so they. must see eye to eye on everything, right? Right? I didn't realize Wombat was just hiding his love for Railfan, how very stupid of me to think he had the nerve to disagree with CheapyD.