Football neutered on PS3, alive and well on 360? What the heck?

[daroga]

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3160709

Both EA's and 2K's offerings this year are running at 30fps on the PS3 and 60fps on thr 360. This screams of developer laziness. And this is the kind of stuff that irritates me when buying 3rd party, cross-platoform games. They really can't harness the PS3's massive power to make it run well? They can't make some Wii controls that don't completely suck?

I guess the difference comes between "can't" and "won't".

[The Mana Knight]

For one, this is Kotaku, who can take any news article and put a huge spin on it (there are also very anti-Sony).

Secondly, the games still have time before release. Also, Madden was running at 30fps the last two years on 360, and it looks like EA finally figured out how to get the 360 running at 60fps (after two years, because EA is lazy). So far, this is EA's second attempt at the PS3 Madden game; therefore, they probably won't get 60fps until next year. As for All Pro Football, the 2k sports devs already have a year extra experience on 360.

Also, from what the Official PlayStation blog said:

2) If you are porting:
If your game starts on Xbox 360 you will have to re-engineer aspects of the game to run properly on PS3. This means additional effort. Some developers have been complaining about this but I don’t believe we can solve that. Xbox 360 is a different machine with good, but lower powered hardware in a different architecture. Developers have to view them as two different machines not as a common platform.

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2007/06/13/is-the-ps3-really-harder-to-develop-for/

Basically, if you just copy and paste code from a 360 development kit into a PS3 development kit, it just isn't going to work very easily, because the 360 and PS3 have a different architecture. Blame lazy devs like EA for the crappy port.

Lastly, football games are boring (I stopped playing them after NFL 2k2 and NFL Fever 2002). Basketball games are where it's at. ;)

The difference between 60fps and 30fps can barely be noticed by the human eye since the human eye can only detect around 24fps. Still, at least the PS3 version won't give the console the red ring of death. :lol:

[Zen Davis]

For one, this is Kotaku, who can take any news article and put a huge spin on it (there are also very anti-Sony).

Secondly, the games still have time before release. Also, Madden was running at 30fps the last two years on 360, and it looks like EA finally figured out how to get the 360 running at 60fps (after two years, because EA is lazy). So far, this is EA's second attempt at the PS3 Madden game; therefore, they probably won't get 60fps until next year. As for All Pro Football, the 2k sports devs already have a year extra experience on 360.

Also, from what the Official PlayStation blog said:

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2007/06/13/is-the-ps3-really-harder-to-develop-for/

Basically, if you just copy and paste code from a 360 development kit into a PS3 development kit, it just isn't going to work very easily, because the 360 and PS3 have a different architecture. Blame lazy devs like EA for the crappy port.

Lastly, football games are boring (I stopped playing them after NFL 2k2 and NFL Fever 2002). Basketball games are where it's at. ;)

The difference between 60fps and 30fps can barely be noticed by the human eye since the human eye can only detect around 24fps. Still, at least the PS3 version won't give the console the red ring of death. :lol:
There is a reason people are anti-Sony. Man, between the Nintendo thread and this thread, the amount of times you contradict yourself is crazy. You're just coming off as anti-Nintendo and pro-Sony.

[Apossum]

so Ninja Gaiden can run at 60fps in 1080p without a hitch and some football games can't top 30?

way to go EA and 2K.

[daroga]

The difference between 60fps and 30fps can barely be noticed by the human eye since the human eye can only detect around 24fps. Still, at least the PS3 version won't give the console the red ring of death. :lol:Actually, the difference between 60fps and 30fps is pretty profound. Run some tests on a PC. Play a game at 30 then tweak the setting to get up to 60. You'll be amazed.

so Ninja Gaiden can run at 60fps in 1080p without a hitch and some football games can't top 30?

way to go EA and 2K.Exactly. In their defence, though, the football games have to put all those player names on the jersies! ;)

[Strell]

so Ninja Gaiden can run at 60fps in 1080p without a hitch and some football games can't top 30?

way to go EA and 2K.

You'd especially think so, given that Team Ninja just EA's it up by remaking NG1 over and over.

Come on now, EA! Don't let molesters get the better of you! They're in yur turf, touchin' yur peeplz, sixty framin's yur gamez!

[pete5883]

For one, this is Kotaku, who can take any news article and put a huge spin on it (there are also very anti-Sony). If they are (and they aren't,) it's because they're anti-everybody. They give Sony a hard time for their laughable PR and price, they give MS a hard time for hardware, and Nintendo a hard time for waggle and minigame-games. All with good reason. I'm not even going to touch the rest of your post. If the PS3 is more complicated to program for, then blaming EA for not being able to work around Sony's design choices is just plain silly.

[The Mana Knight]

If they are (and they aren't,) it's because they're anti-everybody. They give Sony a hard time for their laughable PR and price, they give MS a hard time for hardware, and Nintendo a hard time for waggle and minigame-games. All with good reason. I'm not even going to touch the rest of your post. If the PS3 is more complicated to program for, then blaming EA for not being able to work around Sony's design choices is just plain silly.Sony has good PR retard (Peter Moore alone is more laughable than any PR, with the Y'know, things break). Kotaku is just a bunch of butt kissing idiots and should continue being a banned site on most internet websites.
Actually, the difference between 60fps and 30fps is pretty profound. Run some tests on a PC. Play a game at 30 then tweak the setting to get up to 60. You'll be amazed.I don't play PC games at all. They're for nerds/geeks anyway. ;)

j/k
Exactly. In their defence, though, the football games have to put all those player names on the jersies! ;)NBA 06 on PS3 had awesome graphics, ran at 1080p and 60fps. It can easily be done on PS3, some devs are just lazy.
There is a reason people are anti-Sony. Man, between the Nintendo thread and this thread, the amount of times you contradict yourself is crazy. You're just coming off as anti-Nintendo and pro-Sony.I'm far from being anti-Nintendo. I own every Nintendo platform except a Wii (can't afford one right now) and Virtual Boy.

[Weedy649]

First of all, kotaku wasnt the first to run this story. http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3160709

1up did the story on june 29th(i thought a thread would have been made by now).

I beg of you, get rid of the kotaku story and put the 1up one in since its more in depth.

Secondly, mana if you really do want to make a point then saying you wont get rings of death and football is boring really just blows any credibility in your post. Its easy to defend the 30fps when you didnt want to play the game in the first place, but im pretty sure the majority of people are disappointed in this. Its also easy to see you just want to defend sony before the obvious bashing comes in...in this case however the bashing isnt uncalled for.

[The Mana Knight]

First of all, kotaku wasnt the first to run this story. http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3160709

1up did the story on june 29th(i thought a thread would have been made by now).

I beg of you, get rid of the kotaku story and put the 1up one in since its more in depth.

Secondly, mana if you really do want to make a point then saying you wont get rings of death and football is boring really just blows any credibility in your post. Its easy to defend the 30fps when you didnt want to play the game in the first place, but im pretty sure the majority of people are disappointed in this. Its also easy to see you just want to defend sony before the obvious bashing comes in...in this case however the bashing isnt uncalled for.That's what I said, Kotaku stole the story from another source (which happened to be 1Up). I already heard this at PlayStation Universe.

I'm being serious. I like the 360 and all, but the console breaks way too easily, which is why I buy the PS3 version of most all PS3/360 games (my 360 already broke and if it breaks again, I'm fucked). Look at the news of Forza 2 (http://gamerush.zoomshare.com/files/my_images/GameRush_Entertainment_Microsoft_deletes_mass_Xbox _360_crashing_claims_from_Forza_2_forums_News.htm) breaking peoples' 360 consoles. Gears of War, Dead Rising, etc. did the same last year. I wouldn't be surprised if Madden and All Pro Football were doing the same this year.

I do agree that the 1UP story should be used, since even GAF banned Kotaku due to their low creditability. I love it when Sony owned them around GDC.

[jer7583]

SONY DEFENSE FORCE

ASSEMBLE

This was confirmed by 1up by a statement given by EA. Try telling any quake-head who won't settle for less than 120fps that there's no visible difference above 24 fps. Just play Forza (60fps) for a while, then switch to Gran Turismo 1 or 2 which run closer to 25-30 fps. Or lock in your framerate at each playing an emulator for some old playstation games.

[Weedy649]

That's what I said, Kotaku stole the story from another source (which happened to be 1Up). I already heard this at PlayStation Universe.

I'm being serious. I like the 360 and all, but the console breaks way too easily, which is why I buy the PS3 version of most all PS3/360 games (my 360 already broke and if it breaks again, I'm fucked). Look at the news of Forza 2 (http://gamerush.zoomshare.com/files/my_images/GameRush_Entertainment_Microsoft_deletes_mass_Xbox _360_crashing_claims_from_Forza_2_forums_News.htm) breaking peoples' 360 consoles. Gears of War, Dead Rising, etc. did the same last year. I wouldn't be surprised if Madden and All Pro Football were doing the same this year.

I do agree that the 1UP story should be used, since even GAF banned Kotaku due to their low creditability. I love it when Sony owned them around GDC.

I can see the grudge, but then again i went through quite a few ps2s thanks to DRE last gen and havent had any problems with my 360 since i got it in september(knocks on wood).

like 1up says, its understandable for madden in a sense but theres really no excuse for the All Star football. This could be a case of developers being lazy, but it could also be a sign of how developers have a hard time on the ps3.

[furyk]

Sony was far from owning Kotaku considering Sony, not Kotaku, backtracked after Kotaku bitched. In any event, this is just developers being incredibly lazy.

I don't see how this is/has become a console debate. No defense force needed as this is legit gripe. It's simply stupid that EA and 2K won't put effort into designing as close to an identical experience as possible on the PS3. This is even dumber on EA part considering they've had to have had the hardware as long if not longer then any other third party developer.

[dallow]

This is why I don't like multi-platform games.

Told ya.
I'm so glad I don't care about sports games.

[daroga]

I love it when Sony owned them around GDC.Like when Sony backpedaled and asked Kotaku to forgive them? Yeah, Sony's the man.

1UP link edited into the OP in place of the Kotaku link.

If you'll note, Mana and others, I didn't create this thread to bash Sony. Reading the OP again will help you understand I was bashing (third party )developer laziness. In fact, the inherent compliment to the PS3 si that "Duh, of course it has enough power to run this game at 60fps, if you'd just code it properly."

The PS3 crew (love ya guys!) are a sensitive lot, aren't they?

[The Mana Knight]

SONY DEFENSE FORCE

ASSEMBLE
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k38/The_Mana_Knight/Signatures/sdf.gif
:D
Like when Sony backpedaled and asked Kotaku to forgive them? Yeah, Sony's the man.

1UP link edited into the OP in place of the Kotaku link.

If you'll note, Mana and others, I didn't create this thread to bash Sony. Reading the OP again will help you understand I was bashing (third) party developer laziness. In fact, the inherent compliment to the PS3 si that "Duh, of course it has enough power to run this game at 60fps, if you'd just code it properly."

The PS3 crew (love ya guys!) are a sensitive lot, aren't they?Don't worry, I understand you were talking about dev lazyness. ;)

Naw, the PS3 crew isn't sensitive, it's just me. Whenever anyone would bash PS2 in the past, and if anyone says anything negative towards PSP in the PSP forum, I'm usually the first to defend (that's why my name comes up most here when it comes to the Sony support group). ;)

[Strell]

Don't believe the vile lies daroga spews into this thread, people. He totally PMed me with a huge "LOOK HOW I OWNED SONY!" PM title and then linked to this thread.

Then he asked for a digital high five.

Don't let that cute Electroplankton fool you. This man is out for blood. Blood! And can we really trust vampires?

I submit to you that we can not.

[daroga]

Strell, you need to shut. your. yap.

That's it. No cookies for you ever again. Ever.

[jkam]

so Ninja Gaiden can run at 60fps in 1080p without a hitch and some football games can't top 30?

way to go EA and 2K.

Actually Ninja Gaiden was mentioned to have a few graphical hiccups...I think by 1up too.

[dallow]

Actually Ninja Gaiden was mentioned to have a few graphical hiccups...I think by 1up too.It just has some slight tearing issues.


Also, Ninja Gaiden is 720p, it upscales to 1080.

[GuilewasNK]

You'd especially think so, given that Team Ninja just EA's it up by remaking NG1 over and over.

Come on now, EA! Don't let molesters get the better of you! They're in yur turf, touchin' yur peeplz, sixty framin's yur gamez!

I'd say Team Ninja is more like Capcom or Square in that regard.

[Strell]

Strell, you need to shut. your. yap.

That's it. No cookies for you ever again. Ever.

I don't want your blood cookies, Vladimir! I don't trust someone whose cookies don't show up in mirrors.

[jkam]

The part that I find funny is that everyone has been playing Madden for 2 years on the 360 at 30fps and some how they managed to dig down deep and play it. Now its 60fps so its OMZG!!! The 360 is wayz better than the PSem3.

The 360 has been out longer...which equals more time programming for the system.

Sometimes I wonder if people play their games or if they just have their pet monkey play them so they can watch them.

[GuilewasNK]

I just got Madden 07 for the 360 a few weeks ago and I didn't even realize it was 30fps.

[Chacrana]

The difference between 60fps and 30fps can barely be noticed by the human eye since the human eye can only detect around 24fps. Still, at least the PS3 version won't give the console the red ring of death. :lol:

No, the difference between 30 and 60 FPS is pretty damn noticeable. Look at Ninja Gaiden Sigma and then try and tell me that something like Motorstorm moves just as smoothly.

[Duo_Maxwell]

1up seems to want to blame it all on Sony, but how much can a console maker really do for developers? With other developers besides even Sony making smooth 60fps games, it seems to me the 2k and EA teams simply just don't want to take the time necessary to tweak things for the individual systems. Now given the time constrainants they are under (this is a game that's released yearly after all) I don't wholly blame them either. But at the same time you can't really say this is all just Sony's problem and they need to start developing everyone else's games for them (which IMO seems to be what 1up is saying).

[GuilewasNK]

60 fps is definitely noticable from 30 fps. Look at the original Ridge Racer on PS One and then compare to the 60 fps special disc included in R4.

[daroga]

The part that I find funny is that everyone has been playing Madden for 2 years on the 360 at 30fps and some how they managed to dig down deep and play it. Now its 60fps so its OMZG!!! The 360 is wayz better than the PSem3.

The 360 has been out longer...which equals more time programming for the system.

Sometimes I wonder if people play their games or if they just have their pet monkey play them so they can watch them.But that's just it, with the power of the 360 and PS3 there's no excuse for it run at anything but 60fps. I'm not in to Madden much (although All-Pro for the 360 and Madden on the Wii this coming year tempt me) so I had no point of reference for the last few years. But come on, optimize people. Earn my $60 if you want me to give it to you.

[GuilewasNK]

But that's just it, with the power of the 360 and PS3 there's no excuse for it run at anything but 60fps. I'm not in to Madden much (although All-Pro for the 360 and Madden on the Wii this coming year tempt me) so I had no point of reference for the last few years. But come on, optimize people. Earn my $60 if you want me to give it to you.

I think they try to get more realism at the expense of a smooth framerate. That always seems to happen with new systems, then they dial it back or find programming tricks in the future.

[jkam]

But that's just it, with the power of the 360 and PS3 there's no excuse for it run at anything but 60fps. I'm not in to Madden much (although All-Pro for the 360 and Madden on the Wii this coming year tempt me) so I had no point of reference for the last few years. But come on, optimize people. Earn my $60 if you want me to give it to you.

It took EA 2 years to get it running at 60fps though. So it will probably take them the same amount of time for the PS3. I'm not saying its fair but then again things aren't always fair. The Wii is supposed to be real easy to develop for and they mentioned how they removed a lot of the bottlenecks to allow for 60fps games. It doesn't mean were getting them. As for the 360 and PS3 they do have a lot of processing power but I'm thinking its more than just that to get things running at a smooth 60fps. It doesn't help that the 360 and PS3 are all about pushing the graphics because even at 60fps if it doesn't look good then it won't matter to most.

[Apossum]

Actually Ninja Gaiden was mentioned to have a few graphical hiccups...I think by 1up too.

You'd especially think so, given that Team Ninja just EA's it up by remaking NG1 over and over.

Come on now, EA! Don't let molesters get the better of you! They're in yur turf, touchin' yur peeplz, sixty framin's yur gamez!


jeezus, you can't mention anything on this board without someone turning it in to a completely irrelevant point. This is about fps...not graphical hiccups (which were in the demo, so you haven't completely destroyed my enjoyment of the game, sorry) or the amount of times Team Ninja has released Ninja Gaiden.

ok Strell, when TN starts making Ryu Hayabusa Golf, Ryu Hayabusa Tennis, Soccer, Baseball, Basketball, Party, Ryu Hayabusa is Missing, Ryu Hayabusa Teaches Typing, Ryu Hayabusa World, Land, Bros. etc. Then we can start calling TN a one note team. p.s. your comment about the Ninja Gaiden releases is just as off mark as my smart ass comment ;)



I don't care, since I don't play Madden, but it is laziness, and/or an increase in graphical realism at the expense of the framerate. It comes down to your taste...personally, I like high quality animation and a stable framerate over being able to see real time ass sweat seeping through the quarterback's pants.

[jer7583]

$10 more, 30 fps less, that's EA's philosophy!

[Apossum]

$10 more, 30 fps less, that's EA's philosophy!


don't forget-- they've changed it so you press B to pass the ball this year, instead of A.

[DesertEagleXIX]

But that's just it, with the power of the 360 and PS3 there's no excuse for it run at anything but 60fps.

Since the Saturn, I've been waiting for a machine with enough graphical power to run 95%+ of it's games at 60 fps....I don't think this will ever happen.

[daroga]

ok Strell, when TN starts making Ryu Hayabusa Golf, ... Then we can start calling TN a one note team.May I direct you to Super Swing Golf 2? We'll call it exhibit A. ;)

http://gonintendo.com/wp-content/photos/thumb_59501520070627_114247_0_big.jpg

[jer7583]

These $60 game prices are absurd. I think I'll be buying 4 or so titles full price at $60 all year. Halo (Maybe), Mass Effect, Bioshock, GTA. Thats far less than in previous years.

[botticus]

ok Strell, when TN starts making Ryu Hayabusa Golf, Ryu Hayabusa Tennis, Soccer, Baseball, Basketball, Party, Ryu Hayabusa is Missing, Ryu Hayabusa Teaches Typing, Ryu Hayabusa World, Land, Bros. etc. Then we can start calling TN a one note team. p.s. your comment about the Ninja Gaiden releases is just as off mark as my smart ass comment ;)
One down! (I kid ;))

http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142709

http://gonintendo.com/wp-content/photos/thumb_59501520070627_114247_0_big.jpg

[Apossum]

:lol: I stand corrected.


hey, I'm not saying I wouldn't play any of those games, I'd welcome them with open arms. Especially Ryu Hayabusa teaches typing! more ninjas need to be teaching typing.

[VanillaGorilla]

It could be worse. You could have the Wii version of Madden, with it's "big" new feature being a Family Play mode, where mommy and grandma can basically press one button, then watch the CPU play the rest of the game.

[botticus]

:lol: I stand corrected.


hey, I'm not saying I wouldn't play any of those games, I'd welcome them with open arms. Especially Ryu Hayabusa teaches typing! more ninjas need to be teaching typing.Can't argue with that.

It could be worse. You could have the Wii version of Madden, with it's "big" new feature being a Family Play mode, where mommy and grandma can basically press one button, then watch the CPU play the rest of the game.That, and real online. Which, I agree, is a pretty niche feature, maybe not considered "big."

[Dark Slayer120]

ok Strell, when TN starts making Ryu Hayabusa Golf, Ryu Hayabusa Tennis, Soccer, Baseball, Basketball, Party, Ryu Hayabusa is Missing, Ryu Hayabusa Teaches Typing, Ryu Hayabusa World, Land, Bros. etc. Then we can start calling TN a one note team.

:rofl:

[jkam]

jeezus, you can't mention anything on this board without someone turning it in to a completely irrelevant point. This is about fps...not graphical hiccups (which were in the demo, so you haven't completely destroyed my enjoyment of the game, sorry) or the amount of times Team Ninja has released Ninja Gaiden.


Yo chill out. Seriously. I wasn't trying to destroy your enjoyment of Ninja Gaiden. I haven't even seen the graphical tearing or whatever it is...I just heard about it and they said it doesn't affect the game. I pointed it out because maybe that is the sort of thing that EA wouldn't want to happen with Madden. If you go back and read my other posts I think this whole debate is pretty ridiculous. I'd rather play Ninja Gaiden any day anyway.

[Strell]

ok Strell, when TN starts making Ryu Hayabusa Golf, Ryu Hayabusa Tennis, Soccer, Baseball, Basketball, Party, Ryu Hayabusa is Missing, Ryu Hayabusa Teaches Typing, Ryu Hayabusa World, Land, Bros. etc. Then we can start calling TN a one note team. p.s. your comment about the Ninja Gaiden releases is just as off mark as my smart ass comment ;)


I notice you left out volleyball. I imagine this is on purpose.

:)

[millrat1030]

Why are developers still trying to port 360 games to PS3? It has been stated over and over that it is terribly hard to do. Yet to port from PS3 to 360 is a lot easier. If you're planning on releases on both systems why not just develop with the PS3 in mind and then port to 360? Multi platform games never seem to get it right. Look how many times last gen we had PS2 graphics on Xbox games.

[Apossum]

I notice you left out volleyball. I imagine this is on purpose.

:)


that's doa. the point stands :-P

Yo chill out. Seriously. I wasn't trying to destroy your enjoyment of Ninja Gaiden. I haven't even seen the graphical tearing or whatever it is...I just heard about it and they said it doesn't affect the game. I pointed it out because maybe that is the sort of thing that EA wouldn't want to happen with Madden. If you go back and read my other posts I think this whole debate is pretty ridiculous. I'd rather play Ninja Gaiden any day anyway.


I was just overexaggerating for fun. I don't think you were seriously trying to make me not enjoy the game. just saying it seemed like one of those picky comments that was meant to invalidate my point that EA and 2K are a bunch of lazy sons o' bitches who program games like wal mart sells cheap generic crap. glad to see that wasn't the case.

[hxhawkeye]

Who doesn't like blood cookies? Seriously.

Just wanted to throw that out there.

[guyver2077]

more great news :)

cant wait for all star!

[VanillaGorilla]

Can't argue with that.

That, and real online. Which, I agree, is a pretty niche feature, maybe not considered "big."Goody. Now you can play last-generation Madden, on the worst online infrastructure! Sweet!

[botticus]

Goody. Now you can play last-generation Madden, on the worst online infrastructure! Sweet!EA has the worst online infrastructure? They should work on that.

[VanillaGorilla]

EA has the worst online infrastructure? They should work on that.I was talking about the Wii. I assume online play is now on the Wii, right? If that's not the case, then no, EA doesn't have the worst, they actually have one of the better online setups for their games, and I base this on my experience playing NCAA Football 2004, the last EA football game worth a shit.

[Strell]

Well of course EA has a setup. It's the same one from last year.

Just like all their products, M I RITE?

[botticus]

I was talking about the Wii. I assume online play is now on the Wii, right? If that's not the case, then no, EA doesn't have the worst, they actually have one of the better online setups for their games, and I base this on my experience playing NCAA Football 2004, the last EA football game worth a shit.Madden is bypassing the friend code system, just using their own infrastructure. I figured you weren't aware of that, just had to give you shit. We'll see how well it works in a month.

[VanillaGorilla]

Well of course EA has a setup. It's the same one from last year.

Just like all their products, M I RITE?Go play some more Mario Party 8. Has Nintendo made an evil Toad character yet?

[Strell]

Go play some more Mario Party 8. Has Nintendo made an evil Toad character yet?

I thought it was pretty terrible, actually.

'Sides you can take that out on Hudson.

[VanillaGorilla]

I thought it was pretty terrible, actually.

'Sides you can take that out on Hudson.Then we can agree. Madden and Mario Party suck. The solution? Mario Football! And REAL football, not this sissy soccer bullshit.

[seanr1221]

Tsk tsk tsk. Lazy developers. Hope this isn't a trend.

[soonersfan60]

Go play some more Mario Party 8. Has Nintendo made an evil Toad character yet?

Yes. She's called "Toadette"... :lol:

[lokizz]

For one, this is Kotaku, who can take any news article and put a huge spin on it (there are also very anti-Sony).

Secondly, the games still have time before release. Also, Madden was running at 30fps the last two years on 360, and it looks like EA finally figured out how to get the 360 running at 60fps (after two years, because EA is lazy). So far, this is EA's second attempt at the PS3 Madden game; therefore, they probably won't get 60fps until next year. As for All Pro Football, the 2k sports devs already have a year extra experience on 360.

Also, from what the Official PlayStation blog said:

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2007/06/13/is-the-ps3-really-harder-to-develop-for/

Basically, if you just copy and paste code from a 360 development kit into a PS3 development kit, it just isn't going to work very easily, because the 360 and PS3 have a different architecture. Blame lazy devs like EA for the crappy port.

Lastly, football games are boring (I stopped playing them after NFL 2k2 and NFL Fever 2002). Basketball games are where it's at. ;)

The difference between 60fps and 30fps can barely be noticed by the human eye since the human eye can only detect around 24fps. Still, at least the PS3 version won't give the console the red ring of death. :lol:


no hockey games are where its at. mind you ive never played it or watched it on tv but i got nhl2k5 and im hooked. nothing better than hip checking someone on the ice lol.

[Halo05]

NHL 94 on Genesis is where it's at. You can make Wayne Gretzky (spelling? F-it.) bleed from his head.

[jer7583]

Does anyone else find the idea of playing "last-gen" madden hilarious? As if the series ever had a major change.

[lokizz]

NHL 94 on Genesis is where it's at. You can make Wayne Gretzky (spelling? F-it.) bleed from his head.


that sounds good too im gonna have to try and dl that from somewhere.

[VanillaGorilla]

Does anyone else find the idea of playing "last-gen" madden hilarious? As if the series ever had a major change.This years game has all the last gen features, 2 years after next gen started. So, it's next-last-gen, really.

[daroga]

This years game has all the last gen features, 2 years after next gen started. So, it's next-last-gen, really.EA has created some sort of time / space vacuum with the Madden franchise.

[dallow]

Gameday 97 was the last good football game.

[mtxbass1]

I love the people blaming "lazy developers" throughout this thread. Especially those that imply developers can just "copy and paste" code between console development kits. It's not that simple.

The multiple SDK's are massively different from one platform to the other.

[guyver2077]

Gameday 97 was the last good football game.

o god jesus no

[PhreQuencYViii]

It's still going to sell a ton either way.

[seanr1221]

I love the people blaming "lazy developers" throughout this thread. Especially those that imply developers can just "copy and paste" code between console development kits. It's not that simple.

The multiple SDK's are massively different from one platform to the other.

Ok...and the developers should figure out how to get both versions pretty much identical. Not easy, but not impossible.

No excuses.

[yukine]

I love the people blaming "lazy developers" throughout this thread. Especially those that imply developers can just "copy and paste" code between console development kits. It's not that simple.

The multiple SDK's are massively different from one platform to the other.

We understand that developers can't "copy and paste" code, but that's what it seems like they are doing, hence the "lazy developers" comments.

[mtxbass1]

Ok...and the developers should figure out how to get both versions pretty much identical. Not easy, but not impossible.

No excuses.

No, there are plenty of "excuses" as to why the two versions are not similar at this point in time. The most prevailant reason is that the EA dev teams have spent quite a bit longer with the tools provided to develop on the 360, verses those to develop on the PS3. Not to mention the fact that the sparse documentation on the PS3 SDKs, along with a trail and error approach isn't helping right now either.

Sure it's not impossible. Then again, have you ever developed a game before? There are lots of things that go on aside from the technical difficulties that arise from day to day. Concepts get scrapped, code gets rewritten, optimizations get made, not to mention all the office politics and corporate "BS" that comes with the territory. The experience of not only your team, but the individuals on that team and the ability to adapt to a new environment play a HUGE part in all this as well.

Developers don't just wake up one day and go, "I think I'll make this the worst performing piece of code I've ever written". At least, not developers that are put into places such as EA and the like. These jobs aren't exactly easy to get.

We understand that developers can't "copy and paste" code, but that's what it seems like they are doing, hence the "lazy developers" comments.

How does it seem like that's what they are doing? The core game itself should have the same features (which almost all versions of madden do), but you can bet that different teams are developing the PS3 version verses the 360 version. How exactly are they lazy? Because they haven't found the way to truely optomize the code yet? That's hardly lazy at all. It can take months if not years to fully understand a system.

Edit: Now, don't get me wrong. There are quite a few "lazy" developers out there. It's just that the majority of those that publish games for companies such as EA are not on this end of the spectrum. Oftentimes it's not the "laziness" of a developer, but other factors that the general public is unware of (such as SDK support) that ends up with the developers taking the blame.

[seanr1221]

No, there are plenty of "excuses" as to why the two versions are not similar at this point in time. The most prevailant reason is that the EA dev teams have spent quite a bit longer with the tools provided to develop on the 360, verses those to develop on the PS3. Not to mention the fact that the sparse documentation on the PS3 SDKs, along with a trail and error approach isn't helping right now either.

Sure it's not impossible. Then again, have you ever developed a game before? There are lots of things that go on aside from the technical difficulties that arise from day to day. Concepts get scrapped, code gets rewritten, optimizations get made, not to mention all the office politics and corporate "BS" that comes with the territory. The experience of not only your team, but the individuals on that team and the ability to adapt to a new environment play a HUGE part in all this as well.

Developers don't just wake up one day and go, "I think I'll make this the worst performing piece of code I've ever written". At least, not developers that are put into places such as EA and the like. These jobs aren't exactly easy to get.



How does it seem like that's what they are doing? The core game itself should have the same features (which almost all versions of madden do), but you can bet that different teams are developing the PS3 version verses the 360 version. How exactly are they lazy? Because they haven't found the way to truely optomize the code yet? That's hardly lazy at all. It can take months if not years to fully understand a system.

Edit: Now, don't get me wrong. There are quite a few "lazy" developers out there. It's just that the majority of those that publish games for companies such as EA are not on this end of the spectrum. Oftentimes it's not the "laziness" of a developer, but other factors that the general public is unware of (such as SDK support) that ends up with the developers taking the blame.

And if a smaller team like Ninja Gaiden can get their game to run at 60fps...?

[mtxbass1]

And if a smaller team like Ninja Gaiden can get their game to run at 60fps...?

And have you read the mentality of the leader of that team?

"If you think the PS3 is hard to program for, then you can go work elsewhere".

And how exactly is Team Ninja a "small" team? They have 80 people on their team who are almost all able to focus on a single product. I can bet you that they have roughly the same number of developers that are producing Ninja Gaiden Sigma, as EA does producing the PS3 version of Madden, if not more. Again, EA is a huge company. That doesn't mean everyone on the Madden team is developing the PS3 version of Madden. The madden team might consist of 100 programmers, 30 of which develop for the PS3, 20 for the 360, and so on.

Last time I checked, Team Ninja didn't put out a new NG since 2005 (black). That's nearly 2.5 years to develop NG: Sigma. EA has to churn out a new version of madden in roughly 10 months. Team Ninja has also had a lot of the same team members for a very long time. Unknown to most, this is a huge advantage to them. Strong teams that work on the same product over and over (such as they've done with DOA and NG) are going to produce a better product. Team Ninja focuses on a single product at a time. This is one of the major advantages they have over any other house right now.

[Aleryn]

Any one remembering the early 32bit wars? Specifically, how a lot of developers hated working on the Saturn since it was WAY harder to program on than the PS1?

First thing that ever really came to mind when they started doing simultaneous 360/PS3 launches and a lot of games ran crappier on the PS3.

Personally I get the feeling that the PS3 is just as powerful, if not a bit more, than the 360... but what is that worth if it takes twice the development time/programming AGONY? Just a theory...

[PyroGamer]

And?

HOLY SHIT! I JUST FIGURED OUT HOW TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM... WAIT FOR IT....









wait for it....








Just buy it on the fucking Xbox 360 instead of the PS3.

It's really not that hard, people.

And if a smaller team like Ninja Gaiden can get their game to run at 60fps...?
And the blatantly ignorant post of the year award goes to...


The team at Ninja Gaiden working on Sigma is undoubtedly better funded, more experienced, larger, and has infinitely more time to work with.

Not to mention what experience the EA team has was undoubtedly on the 360.

[mtxbass1]

Personally I get the feeling that the PS3 is just as powerful, if not a bit more, than the 360... but what is that worth if it takes twice the development time/programming AGONY? Just a theory...

This happens with any new system though. It happened with the PS2 as well.

Part of the major problem lies within the resources that are known and made available to a development platform and group. Oftentimes it takes times for optimizations to be discovered, or the "right" way to do something. Once these practices are known, then things move along better, but up until that point, it's a real pain in the ass. Oftentimes this leads to games being pushed out that simply are bug filled, or have many shortcomings.

[seanr1221]

And have you read the mentality of the leader of that team?

"If you think the PS3 is hard to program for, then you can go work elsewhere".

And how exactly is Team Ninja a "small" team? They have 80 people on their team who are almost all able to focus on a single product. I can bet you that they have roughly the same number of developers that are producing Ninja Gaiden Sigma, as EA does producing the PS3 version of Madden, if not more. Again, EA is a huge company. That doesn't mean everyone on the Madden team is developing the PS3 version of Madden. The madden team might consist of 100 programmers, 30 of which develop for the PS3, 20 for the 360, and so on.

Last time I checked, Team Ninja didn't put out a new NG since 2005 (black). That's nearly 2.5 years to develop NG: Sigma. EA has to churn out a new version of madden in roughly 10 months. Team Ninja has also had a lot of the same team members for a very long time. Unknown to most, this is a huge advantage to them. Strong teams that work on the same product over and over (such as they've done with DOA and NG) are going to produce a better product. Team Ninja focuses on a single product at a time. This is one of the major advantages they have over any other house right now.

It's not like they make madden from the ground up every year. This is a huge selling game, they should get the people on it to make sure it gets out in tip-top shape. Like I said, I know it's difficult, but it CAN be done.

And the blatantly ignorant post of the year award goes to...


The team at Ninja Gaiden working on Sigma is undoubtedly better funded, more experienced, larger, and has infinitely more time to work with.

Not to mention what experience the EA team has was undoubtedly on the 360.

:lol: pretty ironic for you to call someone elses post ignorant :lol:

Anyway, you're telling me EA doesn't have the money to dump into their best selling franchise? :roll:

[mr ryles]

I'll wait to see both in action before I make a decision. It's not like the ps3 version is going to look like raw cow manure.

[Kaijufan]

Ok...and the developers should figure out how to get both versions pretty much identical. Not easy, but not impossible.

No excuses.
From everything I've read about the systems it seems like the PS3 has a weaker GPU then the 360, which developers could always use for an excuse. ;)

Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if the 360 version of Madden was the lead platform, which doesn't make things any easier for the people porting it to the PS3.

[PyroGamer]

:lol: pretty ironic for you to call someone elses post ignorant :lol:
I fail to see the irony.

But just for kicks: :lol:

[mtxbass1]

It's not like they make madden from the ground up every year. This is a huge selling game, they should get the people on it to make sure it gets out in tip-top shape. Like I said, I know it's difficult, but it CAN be done.


While this is true, you're forgetting one thing. Last year WAS the first year for Madden on the PS3. They have been making madden for years, but it's not as simple as porting an old version to the new system. I completely agree that they *should* get more people on it, but oftentimes throwing more people at a problem doesn't help to solve that problem at all.

Have you ever heard of Brooks Law? Adding more manpower to a late software project, makes it later. This holds true so many times in the industry. It takes time to train anyone who is new to the system and hasn't been developing on this system.

Then you have the whole mentality of "if we made it perfect, we'd be out of a product next year". You can bet EA rushes products to market so that next year, they can improve upon what is "broken" and keep themselves in business. It's simple really.

[Chacrana]

I fail to see the irony.

But just for kicks: :lol:

Well, it's because you're a fucking moron.

[seanr1221]

While this is true, you're forgetting one thing. Last year WAS the first year for Madden on the PS3. They have been making madden for years, but it's not as simple as porting an old version to the new system. I completely agree that they *should* get more people on it, but oftentimes throwing more people at a problem doesn't help to solve that problem at all.

Have you ever heard of Brooks Law? Adding more manpower to a late software project, makes it later. This holds true so many times in the industry. It takes time to train anyone who is new to the system and hasn't been developing on this system.

Then you have the whole mentality of "if we made it perfect, we'd be out of a product next year". You can bet EA rushes products to market so that next year, they can improve upon what is "broken" and keep themselves in business. It's simple really.

As long as you agree they should have worked their asses off to make it identical. Something like The Darkness I can give a pass too; but one of the biggest selling videogames of all time? Nu uh, I just can't excuse it.

[guyver2077]

I'll wait to see both in action before I make a decision. It's not like the ps3 version is going to look like raw cow manure.

it just might...:)

[mtxbass1]

As long as you agree they should have worked their asses off to make it identical. Something like The Darkness I can give a pass too; but one of the biggest selling videogames of all time? Nu uh, I just can't excuse it.

Sure man, but it's just not that simple. They *should* be working to make it identical, no doubt, but when it comes down to it, it's going to be very difficult until further understanding is gained from the hardware and resources provided. Trust me, it's in every developers best interest to put the best product forward that one can. This industry is very small and names get around as to who is "good" and who isn't. However, sometimes you just can't produce the best product out there due to reasons outside of your control (which I could go into further, but I digress).

[Aleryn]

This happens with any new system though. It happened with the PS2 as well.

Part of the major problem lies within the resources that are known and made available to a development platform and group. Oftentimes it takes times for optimizations to be discovered, or the "right" way to do something. Once these practices are known, then things move along better, but up until that point, it's a real pain in the ass. Oftentimes this leads to games being pushed out that simply are bug filled, or have many shortcomings.

Yup good point. What'll be interesting is if theres such a big disparity of fps between most 360/PS3 versions of the same game, a year from now. 3D Saturn games were almost always choppier than their PS1 twins. However, the power difference between the Saturn and PS1 when it came to 3D was greatly obvious. As opposed to the very close similarity of the PS3 and 360.

[guyver2077]

man i totally forgot that darkness even came out on ps3

[yukine]

How does it seem like that's what they are doing? The core game itself should have the same features (which almost all versions of madden do), but you can bet that different teams are developing the PS3 version verses the 360 version. How exactly are they lazy? Because they haven't found the way to truely optomize the code yet? That's hardly lazy at all. It can take months if not years to fully understand a system.

Edit: Now, don't get me wrong. There are quite a few "lazy" developers out there. It's just that the majority of those that publish games for companies such as EA are not on this end of the spectrum. Oftentimes it's not the "laziness" of a developer, but other factors that the general public is unware of (such as SDK support) that ends up with the developers taking the blame. Because it seems like some developers don't even try to "optimize code." Multi-platform games thus far have been developed on the 360 and then ported to the PS3, often at times the PS3 version will look worse or might even be slower in terms of framerate. How is that lazy? Because developers lump the 360 and PS3 together as the same platform and thus handle the code that way by cutting corners, which shows in the final product. I understand each system has its individual nuances, and have their share of difficulties, but it just seems like they are not putting in any resources to utilizing what the PS3 is capable of.

I'm not a developer, so I probably don't even know what I'm talking about. I'm just saying from my perspective, it seems like developers are not trying to put out the best they can on each system.

[Apossum]

wow, Team Ninja has more money and more experienced programmers than EA? Did I miss Ninja Gaiden 2006, 2005, 2004, 2003 etc? for one thing, they've got a new guy heading the project. for another, Tecmo isn't a bottomless money pit. They're a small company that needs to plan resource-use and allocation.


as for EA's developers being lazy, maybe blaming the devs isn't the right thing to do-- it's probably the overall management and organization of the development cycle that's affecting it. from what i understand, the company is run like a sweatshop.


I just don't believe for a second that they couldn't have made this year's version 60fps. How could the largest developer in the business not have put in the R+D to figure out optimal coding for the PS3 (while one of the middle tier companies with far less people did)? they were probably one of the first companies to get a dev kit.

[jer7583]

I just think that for EA, PS3 isn't as high of a priority due to sales. The Wii version is getting more attention than the PS3 one.

[zionoverfire]

EA is probably just being lazy, Madden sales aren't going to be that big on the PS3 this year due to limited system sales, next year the PS3 version will probably be something more than a quick and dirty 360 port.

[Apossum]

Well the first madden on the 360 wasn't exactly amazing either, I'm sure everything will be fixed up when madden rolls around next year.

bUT WHAT IF MADDEN DOESN'T COME NEXT YEAR???? :-(

[zionoverfire]

bUT WHAT IF MADDEN DOESN'T COME NEXT YEAR???? :-(

:rofl: then the true spirit of christmas is truely dead.

[-Never4ever-]

PS3 isn't nearly as advanced as Sony told you.

Hypothetical question: what's the point of having 0.005x better looking graphics, when its 50x harder to do so? What's the point in trying to optimize, when the lesser of two systems has a larger install base?

What you call "being lazy", others would call "being smart".

Besides, who the hell was going to get the PS3 iteration, when the 360 version has achievements, better controls and better online? People who only have access to PS3, that's who. For those people, nothing matters.

[GizmoGC]

don't forget-- they've changed it so you press B to pass the ball this year, instead of A.

Wait....so EA actually changed the PS3 controller to get rid of shapes? They ROCK!

[Apossum]

PS3 isn't nearly as advanced as Sony told you.

Hypothetical question: what's the point of having 0.005x better looking graphics, when its 50x harder to do so? What's the point in trying to optimize, when the lesser of two systems has a larger install base?

What you call "being lazy", others would call "being smart".

Besides, who the hell was going to get the PS3 iteration, when the 360 version has achievements, better controls and better online? People who only have access to PS3, that's who. For those people, nothing matters.


should i bother asking what the details are in making it 50x harder to program for? especially when the word is that it's easier to port from the ps3 down, then the 360 up?

also, a larger installed base doesn't mean the other has "no" installed base. optimizing code, i.e. having a knowledge base to work with in the future, saves them from having to shoot in the dark while trying to squeeze another game out for a deadline.

though I'm sure EA has something akin to a video converter for making madden games :roll:

I'll agree that they don't need to make the best Madden possible this year, but I can already see teh console warz starting up in this thread...so, that's my cue, goodbye, have fun :-P

[seanr1221]

[SPOILER]
Besides, who the hell was going to get the PS3 iteration, when the 360 version has achievements, better controls and better online? People who only have access to PS3, that's who. For those people, nothing matters.

Or I'd like to use the ps3-psp functionality.

[Mechafenris]

There's really no need to argue, folks...

The only real football game is NFL2K on the Dreamcast. :) I pretty much haven't played one as much or as often since... *shrug*

What should _really_ be interesting is to see how that when other first party titles and non-ports start showing up on the PS3, if these cross-platform developers will re-double their efforts at making at least a passable attempt at exploiting the hardware of the PS3. There's no doubt that incentive-wise, it's a 360 ball game due to the head start and installed base, but as the market matures, this could get interesting...

I remember when consoles used to get half-baked FPS ports from the PC gaming world... now FPSes on consoles are on par (and sometimes exceeding) their PC counterparts....

So it's only a matter of time... and since I loathe Madden... I can wait. ;)

[Mechafenris]

Or I'd like to use the ps3-psp functionality.


Like the Dreamcast play-calling via the VMU... that was ingenious. :)

[mtxbass1]

Because it seems like some developers don't even try to "optimize code." Multi-platform games thus far have been developed on the 360 and then ported to the PS3, often at times the PS3 version will look worse or might even be slower in terms of framerate. How is that lazy? Because developers lump the 360 and PS3 together as the same platform and thus handle the code that way by cutting corners, which shows in the final product. I understand each system has its individual nuances, and have their share of difficulties, but it just seems like they are not putting in any resources to utilizing what the PS3 is capable of.

I'm not a developer, so I probably don't even know what I'm talking about. I'm just saying from my perspective, it seems like developers are not trying to put out the best they can on each system.

Again, try to understand how this works from a developers point of view. As a developer, you get a new language/system. Little to nothing is known about this system but you have to get *something* to the market. You struggle for weeks trying to get your bearings, then finally a few months later, you have a product. Like I have mentioned before, these optimizations are not known until further down the road into a systems lifecycle. Developers hardly "lump" the two systems together. Sure, they are both next gen, but the two subsystems are completely different to program for. You might share some common fundamentals between the two (like catching a ball for example), but the code will be completely different. Because of this difference, corners are often cut when deadlines loom.

It's not even so much that they aren't putting any resources into programming for the PS3. It's that the system is extremely diffficult to program and optimize at this point in time due to the lack of experienced PS3 developers and the lack of resources available to all PS3 developers. Until further optimizations are discovered and secrets are shared, this will continue. This happens with all products...

[mtxbass1]

wow, Team Ninja has more money and more experienced programmers than EA? Did I miss Ninja Gaiden 2006, 2005, 2004, 2003 etc? for one thing, they've got a new guy heading the project. for another, Tecmo isn't a bottomless money pit. They're a small company that needs to plan resource-use and allocation.


as for EA's developers being lazy, maybe blaming the devs isn't the right thing to do-- it's probably the overall management and organization of the development cycle that's affecting it. from what i understand, the company is run like a sweatshop.


I just don't believe for a second that they couldn't have made this year's version 60fps. How could the largest developer in the business not have put in the R+D to figure out optimal coding for the PS3 (while one of the middle tier companies with far less people did)? they were probably one of the first companies to get a dev kit.

Apossum, money has little to do with what you are seeing here. Team Ninja has an entire group of people (around 80) who focus solely on a single game. Many on the TN team have been working on the NG series for a very long time. This is a HUGE advantage for them on both accounts.

Contrary to what you've read in the media, EA is actually a very good company to work for. They've made some corrections to some "problems", but not all of EA's studios are like those you read about (with employees working like slaves ;) ).

Again, it's not a matter of the largest verses the smallest. EA is the largest developer in the business, no doubt, however this doesn't mean that every developer who works for EA works on the same product (obviously). Even if they have 100 people working on Madden, this doesn't mean all 100 people are working on the same version of Madden. The same isn't true over at Team Ninja. They have a team of 80. You can bet that up until product launch, all 80 (or a grand majority of them) are working full steam on optimizing, bug testing, QA, and everything else to make their product shine.

Part of the success that TN has is because of their attitude towards the business. They are lucky that they can focus an entire team on a project, unlike EA where members might be forced to work on multiple projects at one time, (which is commonly the case).

[Thomas96]

I think that the main issue is time... it's going to take 2k and EA more time to get their games running 60fps on the ps3, and I think they left it at 30fps to meet time constraints... I don't think its an issue of the ps3 "can't" have a football game at 60fps.... most people that buy the game don't know crap about frames per second... unfortunately I'm one of them... its all bout how well the final product plays... I just hope that that it isn't as bad as the ps3/360 2007 Madden.

[Apossum]

Apossum, money has little to do with what you are seeing here. Team Ninja has an entire group of people (around 80) who focus solely on a single game. Many on the TN team have been working on the NG series for a very long time. This is a HUGE advantage for them on both accounts.

Contrary to what you've read in the media, EA is actually a very good company to work for. They've made some corrections to some "problems", but not all of EA's studios are like those you read about (with employees working like slaves ;) ).

Again, it's not a matter of the largest verses the smallest. EA is the largest developer in the business, no doubt, however this doesn't mean that every developer who works for EA works on the same product (obviously). Even if they have 100 people working on Madden, this doesn't mean all 100 people are working on the same version of Madden. The same isn't true over at Team Ninja. They have a team of 80. You can bet that up until product launch, all 80 (or a grand majority of them) are working full steam on optimizing, bug testing, QA, and everything else to make their product shine.

Part of the success that TN has is because of their attitude towards the business. They are lucky that they can focus an entire team on a project, unlike EA where members might be forced to work on multiple projects at one time, (which is commonly the case).



makes sense. I hear the japanese get crazier with the crunch time too :)

[daroga]

Apossum, money has little to do with what you are seeing here. Team Ninja has an entire group of people (around 80) who focus solely on a single game. Many on the TN team have been working on the NG series for a very long time. This is a HUGE advantage for them on both accounts.I'm not really disagreeing with a lot of what you've said, but isn't NG:S a side project that the majority of TN isn't working on?

[dallow]

Plus Ninja Gaiden Sigma is 720p.
Processor relief.

[CheapyD]

Plus Ninja Gaiden Sigma is 720p.
Processor relief. The box says 1080p is supported.

[daroga]

The box says 1080p is supported.upscaled from 720p?

[Apossum]

upscaled from 720p?


yeah. a 1080p native game would be redonkulous at this point.

[dallow]

The box says 1080p is supported.

Yes, it's upscales to 1080p.
But 720p native.

I believe if you play with all resolutions checked, it plays in 720p like the demo.
If you disable 720p, it'll play in 1080. Good news for the 480/1080 only folks.

yeah. a 1080p native game would be redonkulous at this point.
Wait what? There are plenty of 1080 native games, you should know this.

[help1]

Heh, I am buying a football game this year, and its nice to know that my console of choice is the best console to play it on!

[Apossum]

Yes, it's upscales to 1080p.
But 720p native.

I believe if you play with all resolutions checked, it plays in 720p like the demo.
If you disable 720p, it'll play in 1080. Good news for the 480/1080 only folks.

Wait what? There are plenty of 1080 native games, you should know this.


why would they make it 1080p native-- like 5 people who buy the game will get to see the game look its best.

maybe i'm not understanding the concept of nativity, but I thought that the native res always looks the best (unless it's 480i getting upscaled and smoothed)

[Vinny]

why would they make it 1080p native-- like 5 people who buy the game will get to see the game look its best.

maybe i'm not understanding the concept of nativity, but I thought that the native res always looks the best (unless it's 480i getting upscaled and smoothed)

Native res does look the best... upscaling isn't as good as native.

[dallow]

In a perfect world, every game would be 1080p native. (and many PS3, and even a couple 360 games are)

Native means the game is rendered in that resolution, not scaled.

Like having a polygonal cube created to be as big as a mountain, or creating it at the size of a pebble, then blowing it up.

[mtxbass1]

I'm not really disagreeing with a lot of what you've said, but isn't NG:S a side project that the majority of TN isn't working on?

Not from any of what I've read or been told, but I'll ask around with a few folks and get back with you, probably thursday.

Traditionally the entire TN team has focused on one product at a time, until delivery.

[dallow]

Yeah, I think Sigma is a side project.
Itagaki is using most resources on Ninja Gaiden DS and part 2.

[nyprimus4]

The only sports series I care about this generation is the NBA 2k series, they are pretty much the only sports game developers that care how the game turns out.

[yukine]

Again, try to understand how this works from a developers point of view. As a developer, you get a new language/system. Little to nothing is known about this system but you have to get *something* to the market. You struggle for weeks trying to get your bearings, then finally a few months later, you have a product. Like I have mentioned before, these optimizations are not known until further down the road into a systems lifecycle. Developers hardly "lump" the two systems together. Sure, they are both next gen, but the two subsystems are completely different to program for. You might share some common fundamentals between the two (like catching a ball for example), but the code will be completely different. Because of this difference, corners are often cut when deadlines loom.

It's not even so much that they aren't putting any resources into programming for the PS3. It's that the system is extremely diffficult to program and optimize at this point in time due to the lack of experienced PS3 developers and the lack of resources available to all PS3 developers. Until further optimizations are discovered and secrets are shared, this will continue. This happens with all products...
Alright, we'll see in a few years or so. That should be plenty of time to "optimize" code, and if developers are still not taking advantage of the PS3's power by that time... I'll do something.

[itachiitachi]

If sony/sony fans want madden to look better on the ps3 they just need to sell/buy more ps3's.

[PINKO]

It reminds me during the snes genisis days where

the sports games played better and faster on the genisis

[The Mana Knight]

If sony/sony fans want madden to look better on the ps3 they just need to sell/buy more ps3's.No, EA just needs to make the game look better. I plan to buy another PS3, but it won't make a big difference to developers.

[dallow]

PS3 = 60fps now
No more tears.

http://www.maddenwars.com/

So I talked to Kendall Boyd who is the producer of NCAA 08 on nex gen and I asked him the tough questions.



1. Is there a delay with the PS3 version of NCAA 08?

2. Does the PS3 version run at 30 fps unlike its rivalXBOX 360 that runs at 60 fps.

A1. There is no delay, he expects PS3 copies to be delivered in full. He did say earlier that the PS3 may not get to smaller retail stores, but then backed away from that statement and issuing that the PS3 will be sold on time.

A2. The PS3 version of NCAA 08 will be at 30 fps. Although this is a big blow, the Madden Version of PS3 will run at 60 fps.

Fear not 360 fans! (from GAF)

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/images/exec/bell_bio.jpg

Yes, but only the 360 version offers free scotchguarding and undercoating

Jeff Bell
Former Car Salesman

[seanr1221]

*dances*