mariokart wii

[buttle]

i think it's pretty safe to assume that there will be 8 player online. that makes me very happy. and having battle mode online also sounds really cool. i hope we see more video soon.

but i am very worried about the steering wheel. i'd like to just steer with the analog stick. i hope that they give you the option.

[botticus]

He said there were multiple ways to control it, so I'm guessing remote + nunchuk will be one way.

[EXStrike]

I'm pretty sure that they said the steering wheel is more directed to the casual crowd. They probably still have the traditional scheme.

[Ikohn4ever]

looked a lot like Mario Kart arcade

[dmaul1114]

Hopefully it will allow GC and/or Classic controller support.

I'd rather play it that way than with the silly wheel or with nunchuk and Wiimote options.

[evilomar]

I'm not sure how I feel about using my Wii as a wheel, but if the Gamecube or Classic controller can be used, I'm all over it!

[Kaijufan]

What little we saw of it looks great. I'm really looking forward to Mario Kart Wii.

[RAMSTORIA]

after playing excitetruck im confident they can tighten those controlls from mario kart wii, howevery i would like to have the option to use a GC controller.

[thingsfallnapart]

I'm going to need to buy another house to store my Nintendo peripherals at this rate.

[buttle]

reggie also mentioned how novice players will be able to play with good players. i'm curious what they have in mind with that. would one control method have something that would let novice players be better?

and i recognized at least one track from mariokart ds. i hope that there are 16 new tracks.

[Scrubking]

I'm surprised there isn't a 20 page thread about this game. I thought everyone wanted online and would be excited... guess not.

[MarioColbert]

I'm surprised there isn't a 20 page thread about this game. I thought everyone wanted online and would be excited... guess not.

SNES - Super Mario Kart (1992)
Nintendo 64 - Mario Kart 64 (1996)
GBA - Mario Kart Super Circuit (2001)
GC - Mario Kart Double Dash (2003)
DS - Mario Kart DS (2005)

Now, I'm not a betting man, and you can't go around trusting evil rumors and whatnot. Except I'm not surprised by the announcement. Not one bit.

Now SSBB release date? Color me pleased.

[dallow]

Yeah, I like how someone was saying this was an "exciting new announcement".

I was completely surprised.

[dothog]

Except I'm not surprised by the announcement. Not one bit.

:applause:

Kudos on that call, O Magnificent One. There were more telling signs pointing to the announcement, including the leak a week beforehand. Though you most likely missed that, having been absorbed in your crystal ball, Magic 8 Ball, misc. balls, so on.

The real surprise here, and there was one, naysayers, was that they had the balls to say Q1 2008. That is a short lead from announcement to release for a title this big. If it really does hit in Q1, I will be very pleased.

There's a good chance that it might make the date, too: among other rumors floating in the ether is one that Nintendo had a couple of unannounced big titles up its sleeve that were very close to completion. I would assume that if the rumor is true, MK would have to be one of those titles seeing as how close Q1 2008 is. Also factor in that people have been saying since the release of Mario Kart Arcade GP that Nintendo was planning on modifying the arcade karter to fit a console, and I don't think the Q1 '08 date is much of a pipe dream.

[chargeup45]

There might be another reason this game is so far along: some of the tracks appear to be Double Dash rehashes.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/82719.html?playlist=featured

[EXStrike]

I counted one DD rehash, one MKDS rehash, and one MK64 rehash, which isn't that bad.

[monkeydeew]

i hope my ds can be used as a controller too

[prisonerac]

"This is the only Mario Kart where a first timer can immediately stay bumper to bumper with a veteran."

Does Reggie saying this scare anyone else? It sounds like they want to simplify the game even more. Besides the fact that this statement negates skill in a racing game, which equals no fun (see loony toon racing) but it also implies some form of catchup or item system like double dashs maybe in place to give lowered ranked individuals an advantage. I don't know I actually like the fact that you get better at games over time, it is the sole reason I revist games because my skill has increased so I can do crazy moves (Devil May Cry 3) or speed runs for time (MarioKart).

[Dr Mario Kart]

I believe he was just talking about having multiple control schemes and some of them being more user friendly perhaps.

I believe all of the mario karts have had some sort of auto-adjust that was particularly prevelant in Double Dash, where you would get items more in last place.

[prisonerac]

Man I hope he just means control schemes. If there is an easy mode I hope you can turn it off. Also I would love to see an item selection option like Smash Brothers.

[Kaijufan]

There might be another reason this game is so far along: some of the tracks appear to be Double Dash rehashes.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/82719.html?playlist=featured
Hopefully it will be similar to Mario Kart DS and half the tracks will be new and half will be remakes of old tracks.

[NateNinja]

i think it's pretty safe to assume that there will be 8 player online. that makes me very happy. and having battle mode online also sounds really cool. i hope we see more video soon.

As I was watching gamespot's live E3 demos, they had to stall time because the developer was late to the demo, and they put up a George Harrison interview. The interviewer asked how many people online and he responded with "more than you can count on your fingers." So if thumbs dont count then you are right with 8, but I doubt he is going to be like to that, so +10 online so far... :lol:

[WiiNet]

This isn't why I bought a Wii, but I'll buy the game because it is going to be awesome and I have a problem... damn you Nintendo!

[SpazX]

As I was watching gamespot's live E3 demos, they had to stall time because the developer was late to the demo, and they put up a George Harrison interview. The interviewer asked how many people online and he responded with "more than you can count on your fingers." So if thumbs dont count then you are right with 8, but I doubt he is going to be like to that, so +10 online so far... :lol:

If it's more than 8 I'd guess 16 or 32 since they usually do these things like bits in a byte for some reason. Since 32 would be pretty fucking crazy I'd think 16 max. 8 would be awesome though, so any more than 8 would just be awesomer.

[buttle]

As I was watching gamespot's live E3 demos, they had to stall time because the developer was late to the demo, and they put up a George Harrison interview. The interviewer asked how many people online and he responded with "more than you can count on your fingers." So if thumbs dont count then you are right with 8, but I doubt he is going to be like to that, so +10 online so far... :lol:

that would be absolutely amazing. that is very very good news. having more then 8 karts on a track would be insanity.

[sying]

I want to see my Mii race and maybe some usage with the new pad (maybe like pedals)

[bigdaddy]

I'd rather play it that way than with the silly wheel or with nunchuk and Wiimote options.

Yeah because why use the remote or other Wii controlers when playing a Wii game...

[dallow]

Yeah, I would rather race with my Mii online cause he looks like me.
Or my Morrissey Mii.

[defiance_17]

Yeah, I would rather race with my Mii online cause he looks like me.
Or my Morrissey Mii.
You just can't leave a thread well enough alone, can you. Can't we get some sort of insta-lock whenever Morrissey is mentioned?

[dmaul1114]

Yeah because why use the remote or other Wii controlers when playing a Wii game...

What can I say, not a big fan of the controllers thus far. Great in Zelda, will be great in Metroid, but it just feels cheesy many times with holding it sideways and tilting to steer in racing games being the key example for me.

Just reminds me of all the tacked on touch screen crap in the early DS games.

The new controls are only worthwhile when they actually add something to the gameplay, be it adding immersion or improving the controls. Tilting in racing does neither for me, while in Zelda it added immersion and in RE4 it improved the controls.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it I guess. Not every genre it well suited to motion controls.

[io]

:applause:


The real surprise here, and there was one, naysayers, was that they had the balls to say Q1 2008. That is a short lead from announcement to release for a title this big. If it really does hit in Q1, I will be very pleased.
.

EXACTLY! I had said this was a huge surprise to me and probably one of the biggest susprises of E3 (there certainly was nothing surprising out of MS or Sony to compare as far as I'm concerned). It's not that there will be a Mario Kart Wii - big fucking surpise THAT is. It's as dothog says, that it is coming in LESS THAN A YEAR. I figured Mario Kart would be their big Holiday 2008 release, especially given how Galaxy and SSBB are coming this year (as promised). Wouldn't have surprised me if they waited till 2009 for it, actually...
Even if this slips till next Summer that is sooner than Id have guessed a few months ago.

So, yeah, a big surprise, no doubt, - just not in the way someone who thinks like a knee-jerk fanboy would expect ;).

[mikkymuffins]

http://www.nintendowiifanboy.com/photos/mario-kart-wii/308918/

Just noticed this, it looks like the B button sticks out of the back of the wheel. Is this for hopping?

[buttle]

hu, interesting. i'm not sure if having that button means that there will or won't be hopping. but maybe. i haven't played a game yet where you hold the controller that way and use the B button. i wonder how normal that would feel.

that said there should be multiple forms of control. and with the steering wheel option, you're low on buttons. so i'm very curious how the B and A buttons will be used. or even the + and - buttons.

[WiiGame]

can't wait for this. i'm anticipting this to be the best mario kart ever...

[dothog]

I figured Mario Kart would be their big Holiday 2008 release, especially given how Galaxy and SSBB are coming this year (as promised). Wouldn't have surprised me if they waited till 2009 for it, actually...
Well, let's not get ahead of ourselves here. ;) 2009 may be a fantastic number given Nintendo's history with anticipated release dates (that includes MKDD, a Zelda or two, Metroid, Mario, etc.).

It's still hard to believe that they'll want to put the newest MK on shelves with SSBB, SMG, and MP3 all sitting there with ~6 months of dust on the oldest of the three. Plus, they may want to see how the Wii online experience goes over with Strikers, though I doubt there's any kind of analogue between the Strikers and MK online to make the experience useful. However, Nintendo's working somewhat differently than others this generation: maybe this idea of "momentum"--that is, quickly building sales and a game library around a cheap console over two holidays--doesn't preclude having 4 or 5 huge titles on the shelves within a 6-8 month span (though 3rd parties can't be too happy about it).

Also, Q1 '08 is very possible given 1) the rumors that the game was nearly complete and built largely upon Arcade GP and 2) the released screens, which confirmed the Arcade GP pedigree--somewhat--as they looked very similar to screens from Arcade GP.

I'm eager for more official screens and videos ASAP. I'm sick of rumors about this title.

[dallow]

can't wait for this. i'm anticipting this to be the best mario kart ever...Don't get your hopes up so much.

The thread title in lowercase letters bothers me.... :(

[Puffa469]

Yeah because why use the remote or other Wii controlers when playing a Wii game...

Because maybe people want to play the game with the same controls they've used to play all the other games in the series?

As soon as I open my game Im thowing that stupid plastic wheel onto the shelf never to be touched again and hooking up my Wavebird to play.


Can you imagine people trying to snake with that plastic wheel? lol



And as far as noobs being able to hang with vets right out of the box, I dunno.. that is kinda scarey. MK games have always had 'rubberband ai' in them, so I hope thats what Nintendo was referring to.

[buttle]

it should also be pointed out that mariokart ds didn't have any touch screen control. and you really didn't use the second screen as well. i'm not saying that the new mario kart shouldn't have any motion controls. but they shouldn't have them just because it's on the wii.

[007]

In terms of the timeframe when this is coming out, maybe it's a sign that Nintendo (and perhaps the industry as a whole) is looking at a shorter console life.

Or, perhaps, getting things out there and maybe making more than one game from each franchise for the Wii, which would be a nice change of pace.

[EXStrike]

http://www.nintendowiifanboy.com/photos/mario-kart-wii/308918/

Just noticed this, it looks like the B button sticks out of the back of the wheel. Is this for hopping?

Gah, its on the left side.

[Theduck]

"This is the only Mario Kart where a first timer can immediately stay bumper to bumper with a veteran."

Does Reggie saying this scare anyone else? It sounds like they want to simplify the game even more. Besides the fact that this statement negates skill in a racing game, which equals no fun (see loony toon racing) but it also implies some form of catchup or item system like double dashs maybe in place to give lowered ranked individuals an advantage. I don't know I actually like the fact that you get better at games over time, it is the sole reason I revist games because my skill has increased so I can do crazy moves (Devil May Cry 3) or speed runs for time (MarioKart).

kewl itz pro gamerz rtime

[WrestleCrap'sRD]

Having played Excite Truck, I have zero concern about controlling the game is such a manner. Excite Truck rules the earth!

RD

[dothog]

Having played Excite Truck, I have zero concern about controlling the game is such a manner. Excite Truck rules the earth!
If this stunt-jumps-for-victory rumor is true, I will eat Reggie's children.

[WiiGame]

8 players at once online would be so damn hot!

...and hopefully they'll add a voice chat... eight strangers talking to each other at once ... lol.... i can only imagine the colorful words being used....

i sooo want this game!!!

[Poolking99]

I want wavebird support and classic controls as an option. I don't like games that FORCE new control methods when it doesn't add to the game and makes it less enjoyable. I'm not saying the steering wheel will fail, but I want the option of not using it just in case its terrible.

[dothog]

8 players at once online would be so damn hot!
Prepare for arousal. 12P online is the current rumor. So very hot.

...and hopefully they'll add a voice chat...
Prepare for disappointment. We'll get game-specific friend codes and like it.

I want wavebird support and classic controls as an option. I don't like games that FORCE new control methods when it doesn't add to the game and makes it less enjoyable. I'm not saying the steering wheel will fail, but I want the option of not using it just in case its terrible.
Thank you. I thought I was the only one who cared. IMO, if they add a simple hop (to appease the N64 purists) to the MKDD GameCube controls, they will have the finest, most responsive karting controls ever conceived. Do what's being done with SSBB and make game control a priority: if people want simple and goofy, give them so-called motion controls with bullshit stunts on jumps; if people want deep, advanced control, let them use the GC or Classic controller. Don't dumb it down for everyone.

[Kaijufan]

New info on Mario Kart Wii from the Offical Nintendo Magazine. 16 player online, midair stunts, plus all of the tracks from the DS version and new tracks. It sounds like the best Mario Kart yet.
http://www.n-europe.com/news.php?nid=11019
Edit Picture of the article:
http://gonintendo.com/wp-content/photos/DSC00096.JPG

[dmaul1114]

I want wavebird support and classic controls as an option. I don't like games that FORCE new control methods when it doesn't add to the game and makes it less enjoyable. I'm not saying the steering wheel will fail, but I want the option of not using it just in case its terrible.

Same here. I wasn't a fan of the Excitetruck controls.

I mean they worked fine when you got used to them, but it just didn't add anything to the game for me as it's just stupid holding the Wii Remote sideways and tilting to steer.

Adding a wheel thing to stick it in doens't really help much, as it's just silly when there's no resistance--i.e. it's a half assed excuse for a steering wheel and I'd rather just use an analog stick.

[clockworkgreen]

Just my $.02.

The way the article was written makes it sound like battle mode is multiplayer, not the actual racing. "...online battles cater up to 16 players". Not races.

[Kaijufan]

Just my $.02.

The way the article was written makes it sound like battle mode is multiplayer, not the actual racing. "...online battles cater up to 16 players". Not races.
Well you do use weapons in the races, so I guess technically you could consider those battles.
I find it very hard to believe that Nintendo would ship Mario Kart Wii with 16 player online battle mode and no online races.

[dmaul1114]

Just my $.02.

The way the article was written makes it sound like battle mode is multiplayer, not the actual racing. "...online battles cater up to 16 players". Not races.


Hopefully it will have both. The DS one only had the Racing online, which was a bummer as battle mode is my favorite multiplayer (especially since snaking ruined the racing part for me).

[botticus]

Reggie stated at the reveal that it would have > 8 player multiplayer including battle mode.

[Legendaryhedgehog06]

Having played Excite Truck, I have zero concern about controlling the game is such a manner. Excite Truck rules the earth!

RD

QFT

If this has online multiplayer I may never leave the house again, only to poop in the neighbours yard.

[dothog]

So it's going to be Mario Excite Kart, is it, Nintendo? Well fuck you very much.

Can't wait to pull off a stalefish tweak to dodge shells by arbitrarily shaking the wiimote up and down. That motion control is gonna be sweet. :roll:

[botticus]

So it's going to be Mario Excite Kart, is it, Nintendo? Well fuck you very much.

Can't wait to pull off a stalefish tweak to dodge shells by arbitrarily shaking the wiimote up and down. That motion control is gonna be sweet. :roll:Wow... as if steering motion control for Mario Kart was not the second thing that popped into everyone's head in 2006?

[The Crotch]

Oh, no! We actually have to use the motion sensitive controls of a machine whose main fucking purpose is sensing god damn motion.

That's assuming it's been confirmed, of course. I didn't read this thread too closely.

[Kaijufan]

Oh, no! We actually have to use the motion sensitive controls of a machine whose main fucking purpose is sensing god damn motion.

That's assuming it's been confirmed, of course. I didn't read this thread too closely.
Yeah Nintendo showed off a wheel peripheral the Wiimote snaps into that comes with Mario Kart.

[dmaul1114]

Yeah Nintendo showed off a wheel peripheral the Wiimote snaps into that comes with Mario Kart.

Yep...but I thought they had said it would have multiple control options at E3, but maybe just wishful remebering on my part.



Oh, no! We actually have to use the motion sensitive controls of a machine whose main fucking purpose is sensing god damn motion.

But that doesn't mean every game is best suited to be 100% motion controlled.

[The Crotch]

Yeah Nintendo showed off a wheel peripheral the Wiimote snaps into that comes with Mario Kart.I know. I meant was it confirmed that that's the only way to go? Because people are talking like it is (see the post above this).

You know, I think I understand people's fears about this. Gamers - the ones on message boards, at least - are conservative, and for good reason. If something works, why fuck with it? And if it works fantastically well, and I think we can all agree that the Mario Kart series is a prime example of things working fantastically well, then why mess with the formula?

When I get to thinking like this, I'm brought back to the early bits of the RE4 Wii thread. "Will there be an option for analogue aiming?" people asked. Will there be an option for analogue aiming? Yes, there fucking will be (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c6/Re4boxart.jpg). But that is not the point. The point is, we were being paranoid for absolutely no reason. With no bounding box, there was a 0% chance of RE4 being fucked up by Wii controls. And yet, there was fear.

That brings us to Excite Truck style controls for Mario Kart. At worst, they "added nothing to the game" and "looked stupid" (So does pretty much anything pertaining to videogames - you ever watch yourself play Mario Kart?). At fucking worst, they were no worse than normal. And yet we've got so much fear. The sky is falling!
The latest installment in one of the most god damn polished series' ever will throw it all away to steal from Super Paper Mario (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3319692#post3319692). Oh, mountains will fall! Seas will boil! Day will be as night!

...

Or the game will be totally fucking normal save for a new, well-implemented but not groundbreaking control scheme, and all the pissing and moaning and belly-acheing that we do (this post included especially) won't change a god damn thing.


And just for the record, I don't want to control the game by tilting the remote, either. I wanted to be able to aim bananas and such with it. Seems like a pretty big wasted opportunity to me.

Edit: All those "fuck"s mess with the formatting and make my post look weird. Aw well. I stand by my excessive use of that word.

[Kaijufan]

I know. I meant was it confirmed that that's the only way to go? Because people are talking like it is (see the post above this).

As far as I know Nintendo hasn't said anything about non Wiimote controls yet.

[dothog]

The chorus of reason has spoken. For the record, there's only been one Nintendo legacy title to implement Wii controls to that title's credit (MP3), and MP3 is leaning on IR much more than the accelerometers. There are many other examples of the motion control providing nothing more to the experience than the so-called waggle. In my experience with these titles, the waggle has been superficial and insufficient, especially in response.

I'm sure Excite Kart will be a great party game and fun for all, but its value as a pure karter with precise control is gone. I was holding out hopes that the motion control wouldn't spoil it entirely, but I think the spectre of "stunt jumps/tricks" looms large here.

Wow... as if steering motion control for Mario Kart was not the second thing that popped into everyone's head in 2006?
That depends on your favorite title, which is to say that I think the whole point of the Wii announcement was for "motion control meets your favorite title" to pop in everyone's head. And following up on those initial expectations, motion control was kind of unnecessary and silly with Zelda and okay but underwhelming with Wario Ware. It's being entirely discounted by SSBB, and in SMG you use it to maybe spin around or something (the IR fetches starts, but the point is motion control is not critical to the SMG experience).

Is motion control somehow a natural for Mario Kart because, hey, it's like steering a wheel? The control to a title like MKDD is pretty tight and will lose nearly as much in translation to the Wii as SSBM's controls would. I know not everybody on the board takes MKDD seriously, but it's a hell of a game for time trialing with some badass game control. Unless GC controllers are supported (and I doubt it with the stunt jump confirmation), that game control is a thing of the past.

It sounds like the MK series will become Excite Truck meets Mario Party.

[The Crotch]

The chorus of reason has spoken. For the record, there's only been one Nintendo legacy title to implement Wii controls to that title's credit (MP3), and MP3 is leaning on IR much more than the accelerometers. There are many other examples of the motion control providing nothing more to the experience than the so-called waggle. In my experience with these titles, the waggle has been superficial and insufficient, especially in response.1: Wii Sports
2: Aside from the above point, Nintendo's Wii games have mostly been last-minute additions. Zelda was a GC game. Super Paper Mario was a GC game. Wario Ware was ten minutes long. You can't really draw any conclusions from that.

I'm sure Excite Kart will be a great party game and fun for all, but its value as a pure karter with precise control is gone. I was holding out hopes that the motion control wouldn't spoil it entirely, but I think the spectre of "stunt jumps/tricks" looms large here.


That depends on your favorite title, which is to say that I think the whole point of the Wii announcement was for "motion control meets your favorite title" to pop in everyone's head. And following up on those initial expectations, motion control was kind of unnecessary and silly with Zelda and okay but underwhelming with Wario Ware. It's being entirely discounted by SSBB, and in SMG you use it to maybe spin around or something (the IR fetches starts, but the point is motion control is not critical to the SMG experience).

Is motion control somehow a natural for Mario Kart because, hey, it's like steering a wheel? The control to a title like MKDD is pretty tight and will lose nearly as much in translation to the Wii as SSBM's controls would. I know not everybody on the board takes MKDD seriously, but it's a hell of a game for time trialing with some badass game control. Unless GC controllers are supported (and I doubt it with the stunt jump confirmation), that game control is a thing of the past.

It sounds like the MK series will become Excite Truck meets Mario Party.I was under the impression that Mario Galaxy had not yet been released, and thus we had no real way of knowing just what role motion control would play in it. I also did not realize we knew any details on the trick system, or that Excite Truck was the be-all and end-all of motion sensitive racing (because launch games can never be improved upon).

Dothog, we have to get you into Starcraft. Not because you'd necessarily like the game, but because you'd surely get more enjoyment out of Theorycraft than Mario Kart Wii.

[botticus]

That depends on your favorite title, which is to say that I think the whole point of the Wii announcement was for "motion control meets your favorite title" to pop in everyone's head. And following up on those initial expectations, motion control was kind of unnecessary and silly with Zelda and okay but underwhelming with Wario Ware. It's being entirely discounted by SSBB, and in SMG you use it to maybe spin around or something (the IR fetches starts, but the point is motion control is not critical to the SMG experience).

Is motion control somehow a natural for Mario Kart because, hey, it's like steering a wheel? The control to a title like MKDD is pretty tight and will lose nearly as much in translation to the Wii as SSBM's controls would. I know not everybody on the board takes MKDD seriously, but it's a hell of a game for time trialing with some badass game control. Unless GC controllers are supported (and I doubt it with the stunt jump confirmation), that game control is a thing of the past.

It sounds like the MK series will become Excite Truck meets Mario Party.I think the point of the 2006 announcement was "motion control meets every title." First thing I thought of was FPS (far from my favorite genre), and then followed closely by steering (i.e. Mario Kart). After that I was left with "and... what else?"

The real point is, if you don't want a motion controlled Mario Kart, play Super Mario Kart, Mario Kart DS, or if you already have a Wii for some unknown reason (since we're apparently averse to anything new and different), Mario Kart 64 on the VC. No motion control, some of the tried-and-true best games in the series, what is there to worry about? For the rest of us that don't mind things actually having unique input from a system built around unique input, we'll enjoy Mario Kart Wii.

And on another note, ONM has once again admitted that they're full of shit, and an article throwing around the word "fact" was actually "healty speculation." So no confirmation on number of online combatants.

http://gonintendo.com/?p=24457

[clockworkgreen]

“The details printed in Official Nintendo Magazine 21 regarding Mario Kart Wii were healthy speculation on our part and are in no way an official announcement from Nintendo. We are sorry if we have mislead anyone. We do not set out to mislead our readers. ONM apologises profusely for any misunderstandings that this has caused.” - ONM

So all that speculation we did yesterday was just that...speculation.

[dothog]

1: Wii Sports
...
I also did not realize we knew any details on the trick system, or that Excite Truck was the be-all and end-all of motion sensitive racing (because launch games can never be improved upon).

When I wrote "Nintendo legacy game" I meant it as in a game that is part of an established series of games based in a universe of their own never-ending intellectual properties. So Wii Sports, while enjoyable and a great use of the motion control, doesn't fit the bill for me.

And maybe they'll improve on Excite Truck's controls, but it's going to take a lot of improvement to get them to be as responsive and enjoyable as those of MKDD.


The real point is, if you don't want a motion controlled Mario Kart, play Super Mario Kart, Mario Kart DS, or if you already have a Wii for some unknown reason (since we're apparently averse to anything new and different), Mario Kart 64 on the VC. No motion control, some of the tried-and-true best games in the series, what is there to worry about? For the rest of us that don't mind things actually having unique input from a system built around unique input, we'll enjoy Mario Kart Wii.

See, I hate this point. I hate it so much. Because what it basically says is, "If you don't like Nintendo forcing Wii controls on various favorite games , then cram it up your ass and go back to playing old games." It's not fair to fans of Nintendo games to compromise the gameplay/quality of a title in favor of hardware sales. I realize it's the name of the game, but that doesn't mean I have to be happy about it.

The "if you don't like something new, why'd you get a Wii / let the rest of us who want 'unique input' have all the fun" argument is just such bullshit. I DO WANT SOMETHING NEW. I bought a Wii because it's the only way I could get to play the newest Mario, Mario Kart, Smash Bros, Zelda, etc.. I bought it for Nintendo's games, not the hardware. Don't pretend like any of you wouldn't own Wiis if they didn't have motion control. That's baloney and you know it. You didn't give a damn about "unique inputs" before the Wii announcement came along--you just wanted the newest Nintendo hardware so you could play the newest Nintendo games.

Back to the point, it's obviously not the case that ALL updates in a given series have to take on Wii controls: SSBB is ignoring them entirely. I guess SSBB's controls gave me hope that the same would be done for MK Wii. Unfortunately, there's no producer hanging over MK in the way that a Sakurai is closely monitoring SSBB. If MK Wii allows for the use of a GC controller and things are as crisp as MKDD, all will be well. The SSBB example, however, suggests that for GC controls to remain, the basic controls have to stay the same. The inclusion of new gameplay elements like jumps, etc. into MK makes me think that the GC controller will not be supported.

I'm sure you "unique input" fans, with your Power Gloves and your EyeToys, are going to love MK Wii. It'll be a success. But that doesn't mean it won't be a step down from MKDS and MKDD in terms of gameplay.

[dmaul1114]

That brings us to Excite Truck style controls for Mario Kart. At worst, they "added nothing to the game" and "looked stupid" (So does pretty much anything pertaining to videogames - you ever watch yourself play Mario Kart?). At fucking worst, they were no worse than normal. And yet we've got so much fear. The sky is falling!



To be fair, I also said the excite truck controls "worked fine when you got used to them."

That just means the were ok. I found them inferior to analog controls, or especially to playing with a wheel and pedals as far as having precise control in a racing game.

I'm not afraid of change at all...otherwise I wouldn't have bought a Wii or DS, nor would I be enjoying games on both.

But it has to be a change for the better. Just like Touch Controls suck for platformer type games (see Yoshi's Touch and Go, and even the popular Kirby's Canvas Curse IMO) motion controls are going to be inferior to standard controls in some games.

And IMO, tilting the Wiimote to steer in a racing game is inferior as it's not as precisce as an analog sick, has no auto recenter ability, as well as just not being fun as there's not tactile feedback that you get from a real wheel or even an analog stick (which again has some resistance and recenters).

Other games the motion controls are superior, like Zelda where they added a lot of immersion, and Metroid where they add immersion and do a better job with aiming than the right analog stick.

Change is great, and motion controls can be a great form of change. But that doesn't mean I'm always going to think they make an improvement in every game/genre. And that's not being afraid of change, it's just wanting to have the most fun with my games.

[dmaul1114]

The real point is, if you don't want a motion controlled Mario Kart, play Super Mario Kart, Mario Kart DS, or if you already have a Wii for some unknown reason (since we're apparently averse to anything new and different), Mario Kart 64 on the VC. No motion control, some of the tried-and-true best games in the series, what is there to worry about? For the rest of us that don't mind things actually having unique input from a system built around unique input, we'll enjoy Mario Kart Wii.


Or they could just give multiple options like in SSMB melee and make everyone happy.

Though I imagine the online format would force people out of motion controls in that case when they were getting killed by people playing with the tighter analog controls. Unless the tricks give speed boosts and are easier to pull off with motion controls, that could balance out the looser steering.

[dmaul1114]

..or that Excite Truck was the be-all and end-all of motion sensitive racing (because launch games can never be improved upon).


You can't improve upon the fact that you can't auto center the wiimote by letting go, that it's harder to make accurate, fine adjustments etc. than you can with an analog stick, or full on wheel.

That's a hardware limitation, not a software. It can get better, but those problems can't go away.

Just like aiming gradually got better in console FPS games, it's never gotten close to the mouse--not even the Wiimote aiming in MP3.

[dmaul1114]

See, I hate this point. I hate it so much. Because what it basically says is, "If you don't like Nintendo forcing Wii controls on various favorite games , then cram it up your ass and go back to playing old games."

Exactly, it's a bunch of elitists, "my opinion is better than yours" crap.


I bought a Wii because it's the only way I could get to play the newest Mario, Mario Kart, Smash Bros, Zelda, etc.. I bought it for Nintendo's games, not the hardware.

Exactly. The motion control gave me pause in buying the system, but I still jumped in because their first party games are the main reason I'm still gaming at age 28. That and the competition was overpriced, had no games (PS3) and high failure rates (360).



I'm sure you "unique input" fans, with your Power Gloves and your EyeToys, are going to love MK Wii. It'll be a success. But that doesn't mean it won't be a step down from MKDS and MKDD in terms of gameplay.

And that's the real concern. Sometimes it can hurt the gameplay. Super Paper Mario was hurt by lack of buttons allowing only one pixl at a time. And I have a hard time seeing the spotchy accelerometer controls providing the precision controls seen in the Mario Kart Series.

[botticus]

See, I hate this point. I hate it so much. Because what it basically says is, "If you don't like Nintendo forcing Wii controls on various favorite games , then cram it up your ass and go back to playing old games." It's not fair to fans of Nintendo games to compromise the gameplay/quality of a title in favor of hardware sales. I realize it's the name of the game, but that doesn't mean I have to be happy about it.If the motion control makes it no longer your favorite game, then why would you want to play it? If the game were already out, you can bitch all you want about how they compromised your precise Mario Kart steering for shitty floaty motion control. As it is, you are bitching solely because of the possibility that it will have such control exclusively. And sure, you don't have to be happy about it. I'm not happy about Mario being 3D. Is that a legitimate gripe? No, because the gaming world has moved beyond 2D in most cases, so I just have to deal with it.

The "if you don't like something new, why'd you get a Wii / let the rest of us who want 'unique input' have all the fun" argument is just such bullshit. I DO WANT SOMETHING NEW. I bought a Wii because it's the only way I could get to play the newest Mario, Mario Kart, Smash Bros, Zelda, etc.. I bought it for Nintendo's games, not the hardware. Don't pretend like any of you wouldn't own Wiis if they didn't have motion control. That's baloney and you know it. You didn't give a damn about "unique inputs" before the Wii announcement came along--you just wanted the newest Nintendo hardware so you could play the newest Nintendo games.If you want something new, why do you bitch about every instance of something being changed? From the way it sounds, you just want everything to be the same as it was. That's fine, but you probably aren't gonna get a lot of that with the Wii, and it should have been known going in. Would I have a Wii if it didn't have motion controls? You bet. Would I have then bitched that every game was in 480p instead of 720p? Nope, cause I knew that going into my purchase.

Back to the point, it's obviously not the case that ALL updates in a given series have to take on Wii controls: SSBB is ignoring them entirely. I guess SSBB's controls gave me hope that the same would be done for MK Wii. Unfortunately, there's no producer hanging over MK in the way that a Sakurai is closely monitoring SSBB. If MK Wii allows for the use of a GC controller and things are as crisp as MKDD, all will be well. The SSBB example, however, suggests that for GC controls to remain, the basic controls have to stay the same. The inclusion of new gameplay elements like jumps, etc. into MK makes me think that the GC controller will not be supported.No, not all games need to have Wii controls. If Nintendo thinks they'll be improved by focusing on motion controls, then let's see what they can do. We know they won't shoehorn it everywhere, if New Super Mario Bros. on DS is any indication. But if every game can have standard controls as an option to motion controls, then you have an instance of EVERY SINGLE GAME having motion controls "tacked on," whether it improves the experience or not.

It's like as soon as a Wii game is announced, half the gaming world says "Gee, I hope it doesn't have waggle." Then what the fuck do you want out of Wii games? Graphically inferior versions of every game available on the 360 and PS3? I think most people are tired of this sort of debate 9 months after launch.

[dmaul1114]

It's like as soon as a Wii game is announced, half the gaming world says "Gee, I hope it doesn't have waggle." Then what the fuck do you want out of Wii games? Graphically inferior versions of every game available on the 360 and PS3? I think most people are tired of this sort of debate 9 months after launch.

It's not like that at all. I'm usually excited for motion controls. Had me stoked as hell for Zelda and Metroid, and it paid off.

I'm just not stoked here as I thought the tilt control sucked in Excite Truck and that Monster Truck game I rented. I just don't see it being precise enough for it to play like Mario Kart.

It's not being afraid of something new, it's just being worried in one particular instance that motion controls will likely lessen one of my favorite games. Most of the time I'm excited for it, but like you said it's not going to add something to everytype of game--and this seems like a prime example to me.

[botticus]

It's not like that at all. I'm usually excited for motion controls. Had me stoked as hell for Zelda and Metroid, and it paid off.

I'm just not stoked here as I thought the tilt control sucked in Mario Kart and that Monster Truck game I rented. I just don't see it being precise enough for it to play like Mario Kart.

It's not being afraid of something new, it's just being worried in one particular instance that motion controls will likely lessen one of my favorite games. Most of the time I'm excited for it, but like you said it's not going to add something to everytype of game--and this seems like a prime example to me.In this case at least, I guess we just disagree. I'd think Mario Kart is a much better choice for motion control than Zelda was (and Zelda didn't suffer nor benefit, for me). They certainly can prove me wrong if MK sucks ass with motion control (and lacks classic control), but they have enough time to perfect it.

Edit: Actually, I should revise the Zelda comment - the sword swinging didn't add anything or take away from the experience; the pointer aiming was a fantastic enhancement, however.

[dmaul1114]

In this case at least, I guess we just disagree. I'd think Mario Kart is a much better choice for motion control than Zelda was (and Zelda didn't suffer nor benefit, for me). They certainly can prove me wrong if MK sucks ass with motion control (and lacks classic control), but they have enough time to perfect it.

Edit: Actually, I should revise the Zelda comment - the sword swinging didn't add anything or take away from the experience; the pointer aiming was a fantastic enhancement, however.

I really liked the sword swinging. Made it more immersive for me, I really got into it with the boss battles flailing around like an idiot when the weak spot was exposed. :D

And as you said, the aiming was awesome, as was the reel fishing.

But Mario Kart I don't see as it seems like the accelorometers just aren't very accurate as I've been annoyed by their responsiveness in anything that relied on them from racing games (excite truck, the monster truck 4x4 game), WarioWare, Wii Sports boxing, Monkeyball, the tiltgame in the fishing shack in Zelda etc.

Maybe they'll prove me wrong, but I'm definitely skeptical given the type of precise control required to excel in past Mario Kart games.

[botticus]

I really liked the sword swinging. Made it more immersive for me, I really got into it with the boss battles flailing around like an idiot when the weak spot was exposed. :D

And as you said, the aiming was awesome, as was the reel fishing.

But Mario Kart I don't see as it seems like the accelorometers just aren't very accurate as I've been annoyed by their responsiveness in anything that relied on them from racing games (excite truck, the monster truck 4x4 game), WarioWare, Wii Sports boxing, Monkeyball, the tiltgame in the fishing shack in Zelda etc.

Maybe they'll prove me wrong, but I'm definitely skeptical given the type of precise control required to excel in past Mario Kart games.You can tell me if I'm off-base, but I think the accelerometer can be as precise as they want it to be. For example, turning door locks in Metroid. I haven't really tried to judge the sensitivity, but I'll be damned if it doesn't seem like it's me turning the handle.

(for the record, I loved flailing around like an idiot in Zelda too, but there were times where for some reason I was actually too tired and I was bothered by not flicking my wrist hard enough to register a swing :lol:)

[dmaul1114]

You can tell me if I'm off-base, but I think the accelerometer can be as precise as they want it to be. For example, turning door locks in Metroid. I haven't really tried to judge the sensitivity, but I'll be damned if it doesn't seem like it's me turning the handle.


It does seem more precise in Metroid, but at the same time, turning a knob doesn't require the same level of precision as something like Monkeyball, the tilt game in zelda, or steering in a racing game. By that I mean you wouldn't notice any looseness in the controls really as it's a "calm" event for lack of a better description.

I also wonder if that turning uses the orientation of the pointer--distance from screen for pulling out and pushing in, angle for twisting--either totally or in conjunction with the accelerometers?

If so that could explain why its more accurate while games where you hold it side ways (thus the pointer isn't facing the screen/sensor bar) are less accurate.

[clockworkgreen]

This reminds me of any argument where the people fight about how things used to be vs. why the new stuff is so much better.

[botticus]

It does seem more precise in Metroid, but at the same time, turning a knob doesn't require the same level of precision as something like Monkeyball, the tilt game in zelda, or steering in a racing game. By that I mean you wouldn't notice any looseness in the controls really as it's a "calm" event for lack of a better description.

I also wonder if that turning uses the orientation of the pointer--distance from screen for pulling out and pushing in, angle for twisting--either totally or in conjunction with the accelerometers?

If so that could explain why its more accurate while games where you hold it side ways (thus the pointer isn't facing the screen/sensor bar) are less accurate.Next time I encounter one, I'll pull it towards me, then see if I can rotate it turned away from the TV. A question I was considering as I brought it up.

This reminds me of any argument where the people fight about how things used to be vs. why the new stuff is so much better.Usually I'm the one arguing for the old way, but for me that's a long time ago. I want 2D sprites back on my TV. :-(

[dmaul1114]

This reminds me of any argument where the people fight about how things used to be vs. why the new stuff is so much better.

Not really, because again I want the new stuff. The motion control is often amazing--see Zelda and Metroid.

Just sometimes an existing way is better. If you want immersive racing, you buy a wheel and peddles--there was already a superior option to standard analog controls for racing games.

To make matter worse, racing games thus far have controlled worse with the Wiimote than with standard controllers IMO.

So it's not even "If it's not broke, don't fix it." Rather it's "If it's not broke, don't break it."

[Chris in Cali]

Mario Kart with motion control, I'll pass.

[Dr Mario Kart]

You know what you do with a steering wheel? You MOVE it ::gasp::

[dmaul1114]

You know what you do with a steering wheel? You MOVE it ::gasp::

Yes, and it has resistance and auto recenters, is much more precise as it's an analog control etc. It's not just floating in the air in your hands and providing no reference or feedback regarding positioning like the Wiimote.

[dothog]

You know what you do with a steering wheel? You MOVE it ::gasp::
True. And when in a fight, you punch with both hands. You MOVE them to punch.

I expect motion control in SSBB forthwith. It'll be like Wii Boxing, but in the Nintendo universe. With online, too!

[dmaul1114]

I expect motion control in SSBB forthwith. It'll be like Wii Boxing, but in the Nintendo universe. With online, too!

Great. So I'll get the move I want about 10% of the time. Awesome!! :booty:

[The Crotch]

Looks like my fuck-filled rants have reinvigorated this topic. A thousand huzzahs for me!

When I wrote "Nintendo legacy game" I meant it as in a game that is part of an established series of games based in a universe of their own never-ending intellectual properties. So Wii Sports, while enjoyable and a great use of the motion control, doesn't fit the bill for me.And again I say, how many of those "legacy" games have we had? Zelda (better or worse, depending on who you ask), Metroid (better), and Super Paper Mario (tacked on) - the last of which is arguable? What can you get from that?

And maybe they'll improve on Excite Truck's controls, but it's going to take a lot of improvement to get them to be as responsive and enjoyable as those of MKDD.And you're assuming these improvements will not be present because...? Dmaul mentioned hardware limitations, but really, do we know just how far these limitations go? I can god damn guarantee that MK Wii has been in development for ever. This is a top-of-the-line franchise, and you can bet your ass they're not gonna just aim for "Excite Truck +1".


The real point is, if you don't want a motion controlled Mario Kart, play Super Mario Kart, Mario Kart DS, or if you already have a Wii for some unknown reason (since we're apparently averse to anything new and different), Mario Kart 64 on the VC. No motion control, some of the tried-and-true best games in the series, what is there to worry about? For the rest of us that don't mind things actually having unique input from a system built around unique input, we'll enjoy Mario Kart Wii.Bullshit. Total bullshit. Here's my explanation:

It is normal that Nintendo would make Mario Kart sequels. Super begat 64 begat the GBA game begat Double Dash begat DS. DS would have its own child, which would spawn yet another sequel, and so on. Nothing will change significantly. This is what we call "normal", and what everyone expected. In this normal universe, we get a normal update to the MK series.

Instead, we've got the Wii. And now we're getting Wii MK with motion sensing controls (that may or may not be the only control method). What we were supposed to get has been replaced with this - which is fine for many of us, but disgruntling for others.

"So why not just play the old games?" you ask. Because they're old fucking games. I didn't buy Double Dash because I believed the GC's hardware would make it some super-game relative to 64. I bought it because I wanted a new Mario Kart. So do Maul and Hog.

You can't improve upon the fact that you can't auto center the wiimote by letting go, that it's harder to make accurate, fine adjustments etc. than you can with an analog stick, or full on wheel.

That's a hardware limitation, not a software. It can get better, but those problems can't go away.But it can be avoided. Unlike Zelda and Super Paper Mario, this is a game that has spent most-or-all of its time on the Wii. Even if it was created with the GC in mind (not fucking likely), it's been in development for the Wii long enough to negate that. So for all intents and purposes, it's been made to accomodate (How the fuck do you spell that?) Wii controls from the beginning. Perhaps that means wider courses. Perhaps more forgiving hazards have been implememented to balance - the key word here is balance - the looser controls.

Let us go into yet another alternate reality situation, as I'm feeling rather fond of them at the moment. In the first two Civilization games, there was a unit called the "settler". He would move around the map, building cities, roads, fortresses, mines, etc. He was the most important unit in the game. He re-appeared in Civilization 2, for obvious reasons. He returned in 3, but significantly nerfed: he could only build cities. No longer could he make the roads necessary to have any sort of income, the irrigation required to grow, or the mines needed to construct buildings and arm soldiers. Game breaking, no? The settler had lost one of its two main functions!

No. The game was made with this change in mind, and everything worked out perfectly.

I realize that the exact nature of the change in MK Wii is somewhat different, but the solution is more or less the same: build the game around the changes, don't just build the game then make the changes.

[dmaul1114]

Perhaps that means wider courses. Perhaps more forgiving hazards have been implememented to balance - the key word here is balance - the looser controls.


That really doesn't make me feel any better.

I don't want the game to be dumbed down to balance out looser controls. The motion controls either need to be tight enough to not require it, or standard control needs to be an option IMO.

The Civilization example is backwards, as in that case they changed the game in a way that made it more complex (more units to build the same amount of stuff) rather than dumbing it down.

[The Crotch]

That really doesn't make me feel any better.

I don't want the game to be dumbed down to balance out looser controls. The motion controls either need to be tight enough to not require it, or standard control needs to be an option IMO.1: Balance is balance. So long as the same amount of skill is required, what does it matter?
2: Your last sentence in there is quite important. Remember, we have zero information on this stuff.

The Civilization example is backwards, as in that case they changed the game in a way that made it more complex (more units to build the same amount of stuff) rather than dumbing it down.God damn it.

...

Okay, I've got one: was Final Fantasy VI broken because the class system was simplified (or dropped, really)?

[dmaul1114]

1: Balance is balance. So long as the same amount of skill is required, what does it matter?


But if tracks are more wide open, and there are less obstacles (or both) then less skill. There's no way around that. The series has always been about tight control, tricky curves, lots of obstacles and dealing with all that while dodging other racers and attacks.

Widen the tracks and reduce obstacles and you just dumbed down the game IMO.

But again, I do acknowledge that they could somehow make the motion controls work much better than they have in any other game thus far that's relied on them (again, in my experience the pointer works great, the tilt stuff not so much). But I just don't have much faith in it as I just don't think the tech is that great.....probably a generation too soon for full on accelerometer controls. But again, I hope they prove me wrong.

As for FFVI, while I liked the simplification as the job system in V etc. was too complex for my tastes....many who were big fans of that stuff did bitch and not like VI or any of the subsequent games.

[dothog]

And you're assuming these improvements will not be present because...?
Hey, you're an optimist, and god bless you for it. I'd love to see motion control that's as responsive and deep as MKDD. I guess my hope, though I'm less confident about it than ever, is that Nintendo has the decency to retain GC controls in MK Wii. That way the true believers get their beloved motion control, which is the sole reason they own a Wii after all, and the people who just want the most responsive and invovling control possible have options. (And no, motion control does not automatically equal "most involving." For a recent example, see Lair.)

I can god damn guarantee that MK Wii has been in development for ever. Could be true, but may also be an exaggeration. They may be ripping off a lot of GP Arcade code if the similarity in graphics is any indication, which may have reduced the development time somewhat. Still, point taken: Nintendo is investing a lot of effort in this one.
Widen the tracks and reduce obstacles and you just dumbed down the game IMO.
This is the source of much debate among my close circle of karting family/friends. My opinion is that if the track design is solid and the game control is deep (in that it rewards practice), track width is a red herring. Karters will eventually find the fast lanes and stick to them. All narrow tracks do is slow the shitty karters down even more. You'd have to make tracks extremely narrow for it to punish experienced karters, and by that point you'd have alienated 95% of your audience.

In fact I like wider tracks because it allows competitive races to be decided more by skill than by "who didn't get hit by a bomb/shell/banana chucked in the fast lane." Wider lanes give racers an opportunity to avoid traps placed in fast lanes. You could argue that the rush to get in front and booby trap fast lanes is in itself part of a skilled race, but I'd rather see a race won on pure karting, where one karter hit the corners harder, dodged obstacles/shells better, and hit all the critical boosts under pressure to get the victory.

[dmaul1114]

In fact I like wider tracks because it allows competitive races to be decided more by skill than by "who didn't get hit by a bomb/shell/banana chucked in the fast lane." Wider lanes give racers an opportunity to avoid traps placed in fast lanes. You could argue that the rush to get in front and booby trap fast lanes is in itself part of a skilled race, but I'd rather see a race won on pure karting, where one karter hit the corners harder, dodged obstacles/shells better, and hit all the critical boosts under pressure to get the victory.

See I'm not a remotely competitive gamer (seldom do multiplayer at all), so I've always liked that luck was such a big element of Mario Kart.

It made it a nice, pick up and play party game where even the novices can do ok as they are going to luck into the right items at the right time etc.

Knowing the tracks etc. will still gives the experienced Karters an edge for sure, but it's not an insurmountable edge like is in a pure racing game where the novice will never beat the person who know the line in a GT or PGR game etc.

[The Crotch]

But if tracks are more wide open, and there are less obstacles (or both) then less skill.Not when taken in conjunction with looser controls. I stressed the word balance in my previous post for a reason.


As for FFVI, while I liked the simplification as the job system in V etc. was too complex for my tastes....many who were big fans of that stuff did bitch and not like VI or any of the subsequent games.Are you sure about these "big fans"? Are you sure they weren't "nobody"?

But at this point, quibbling has obscured whatever point I was originally trying to make. I really, honestly forget what I was arguing about. Something about Civilization and all that...

Hey, you're an optimist, and god bless you for it.When it comes to Mario Kart? Yeah, I am.

You could argue that the rush to get in front and booby trap fast lanes is in itself part of a skilled race...And I would, se we'd just have to agree to disagree.

[dmaul1114]

Not when taken in conjunction with looser controls. I stressed the word balance in my previous post for a reason.


Loose control is shit. End of story. You can't balance it away. At least not enough for me to personally to want to play a game.

Tight, responsive controls are an absolute must for me, or I won't bother playing a game.

If Nintendo can't make the tilt controls responsive enough that the game can control as tightly as the predecessors then they should ditch them all together, or at least make GC/CC controls an option. Not stick with them anyway and dumb down the game to try to hide the loose controls.

Besides, with the announcement about that it would have all the tracks from the DS game, plus new ones, wider tracks may not be in the works. I'd imagine the DS tracks will be identical, just with touched up graphics.

[The Crotch]

I will admit that looser controls can only be taken so far before they can't be balanced out.

I thought that announcement was actually just speculation?

[daroga]

Maybe play it first and then bitch and moan if you don't like it?

[dmaul1114]

Are you sure about these "big fans"? Are you sure they weren't "nobody"?


Do you think the series would have made it to game VI if no one was playing the first five?

They changed it and it was great for them business wise as it expanded the market, but many of the hardcore gamers who loved the first five games were pissed and stopped playing (still see bitching from some of these oldschool fans in FF threads today on other forums).

That's actually a good parallel as you could see that happen with the Wii with the focus on casual games. In the extrem this could lead to too many casual games (wii sports, wii fit, mario party etc.) and not enough hardcore games (Zelda, Metroid) along with some old favorites like Mario Kart possibly getting simplified for the casual market.

End result could be a lot of hardcore Nitnendo fans being alienated and forced to abandon them and move on.

But hopefully the good sales of RE4 and Metroid will be enough to show that the Wii market will support BOTH hardcore games and simple casual games.

I just hope longtime flagship series like Mario Kart don't suffer in the process. Leave the old series for the hardcore and introduce new ones for casual gamers.

[dmaul1114]

Maybe play it first and then bitch and moan if you don't like it?

I definitely will play it before passing final judgment. But this a thread about a game that's not coming out for a long time.

All we can do here is discuss current opinions/concerns about the game.

At this time I have a lot of concerns/reservations about the possiblity of it only having tilt steering do to hating that type of control in current racing games on the Wii, and having not liked the accelerometer based controls in any game thus far (other than sword swinging in Zelda I guess). Pointer has been put to good use, but the accelerometers have not seemed accurate/consistent enough to me.

So I'm worried that the next game in one of my favorite series won't turn out well and that's all I have to discuss right now about the game.

And annoying that it will likely be a rental rather than an instant buy (as every other game in the series has been) as I don't think I'd risk $50 if it has only tilt steering.

[The Crotch]

Do you think the series would have made it to game VI if no one was playing the first five?

They changed it and it was great for them business wise as it expanded the market, but many of the hardcore gamers who loved the first five games were pissed and stopped playing (still see bitching from some of these oldschool fans in FF threads today on other forums).
What I meant was that I have never seen fans of the first five who were turned off by VI. I mean, I know it's happened - it's a big internet - but that's gotta be a pretty exclusive club.

[dmaul1114]

I will admit that looser controls can only be taken so far before they can't be balanced out.

And that's my concern because in current racing games they are way too loose to work in Mario Kart without dumbing it down too much.

Of course the controls could be improved, I'm just not optimistic of the technology for the reasons I've already outlined.



I thought that announcement was actually just speculation?

Looked pretty solid to me.

New info on Mario Kart Wii from the Offical Nintendo Magazine. 16 player online, midair stunts, plus all of the tracks from the DS version and new tracks. It sounds like the best Mario Kart yet.
http://www.n-europe.com/news.php?nid=11019
Edit Picture of the article:
http://gonintendo.com/wp-content/photos/DSC00096.JPG

[Kaijufan]

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/9665/superpapermarioqz0.jpg

[dmaul1114]

What I meant was that I have never seen fans of the first five who were turned off by VI. I mean, I know it's happened - it's a big internet - but that's gotta be a pretty exclusive club.

They're out there. But it's with VII and beyond that you really see them bitching. But there are a decent amount who cite VI as the downfall point.

I'm not in the club as I prefer the VII and on games (VIII asided, hated that one)....so again I'm all for change when it makes me enjoy a franchise more.

On a related note, I've been trying to play FF VI Advanced lately and struggling to get into it. Damn random battles every 5 steps in dungeons really kill your ability to explore......but that's a rant for another thread. :D

[dmaul1114]

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/9665/superpapermarioqz0.jpg


Yep, pretty much the sole purpose of internet gaming boards. :D

Well that and trying to set off the fanboys. :D

[LinkinPrime]

Holly shit this thread is going nowhere...locking up, somone feel free to create a new one later on to actually discuss the game.