POLL #2: OFFICIAL CAG Presidential Election 2004 POLL: The Sequel

[CheapyD]

Let's just keep this poll going until Election Day....



Here is a poll we ran for 30 days that ended August 20, 2004
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/cheapyd/august.gif

[Ikohn4ever]

lets try not to turn this into a flame war, lets just cast our votes and go

[Wombat]

I agree, whats most important is that if you can vote, you do vote.

[vanlandw]

I am voting for david palmer from 24 :-P

http://www.palmerforpresident.com

[Wombat]

is there any way to split up the other and not voting boxes? They are two very different decisions

Thanks Cheapy

[sying]

Vote Bush! Please?

[Nirvanaguy777]

i hope kerry wins but unfortunately im almost surw bush will win

[pete5883]

Can we get a 'I haven't decided yet' option?

[1SwtDeception]

i recall my teacher talking about the bbq theory.. it goes like.. whoever seems more like the person u bring to a bbq then that the person who would win the election

[Mustang O-Line 75]

not voting

because I'm not old enough... by 1 damn month

[Vthornheart]

Hmm... I would encourage those not voting (but who have the potential to do so) to vote. I hold opinions on this issue, and though I won't share them with you I will state that a democracy can only function when the people within it choose to participate. So please, go out and vote. if your vote causes the person that I want to win to lose instead, then I'll be happy at least knowing that people have spoken.

[Quackzilla]

Who are YOU voting for, CheapyD?

[chosen1s]

Hmmm...On a site dedicated to getting something for nothing, Kerry voters ournumber Bush voters 2 to 1...

[goldengraham]

Hey Mustang, I miss voting by about a month and a half too.

[Moxio]

Well, Kerry certainly has a strong lead.

I'm not voting.

[ElfAngel7]

Well, Kerry certainly has a strong lead.

Not surprised. Many gamers are younger and the democratic party has a strong hold on the younger folks.

[Cracka]

i'm gonna start handing out fake ID's to little kids so they can vote

[WarrenGekko]

i'm gonna start handing out fake ID's to little kids so they can vote
That won't work

[organicow]

i'm gonna start handing out fake ID's to little kids so they can vote
That won't work

SARCASM DETECTOR --> GOING OFF!!! ](*,)

[organicow]

Can we get a 'I haven't decided yet' option?

It's already there: It is invisible. Get it? :lol:

Seriously, if you haven't decided yet, but plan to vote, then just don't answer the poll until you DO decide. Simple! :wink:

[guardian_owl]

I agree, whats most important is that if you can vote, you do vote.

I'll still vote even though my vote is meaningless in pro-Republican Kansas. Makes me wish I lived in one of the swing states where a presidential vote mattered. Damn you electoral college! :evil:

[Vthornheart]

Aye, we should start a topic on the electoral college... actually, I'm going to go do that right now.

[E-Z-B]

http://www.dubyasworld.com/2004-reality-check-voters-guide.jpg

[Cracka]

wow..

i was going to point out al the ways that this picture is wrong, like how it has the gay marriage thing under Bush/Cheney even though Kerry is against gay marriage.... but then i noticed that you got the picture from a site named "dubyasworld" so i changed my mind, figuring you dont care about crazy things like facts.

[E-Z-B]

wow..

i was going to point out al the ways that this picture is wrong, like how it has the gay marriage thing under Bush/Cheney even though Kerry is against gay marriage.... but then i noticed that you got the picture from a site named "dubyasworld" so i changed my mind, figuring you dont care about crazy things like facts.

The bush administration made gay marriage an issue with an attempt to circumvent state laws on this issue by trying to write discrimination against gays into the U.S. Constitution. Not Kerry. While true, he's against gay marriages, he's for gay unions. I guess your facts involve Republican spin.

[Zenithian Legend]

That's great, Bush is getting his ass kicked on here. CAG should get its own electoral vote.

[Quackzilla]

i'm gonna start handing out fake ID's to little kids so they can vote

Seeing as how they are the ones hurt by the Bush admins education and environmental policies they SHOULD be able to vote.

[dtcarson]

wow..

i was going to point out al the ways that this picture is wrong, like how it has the gay marriage thing under Bush/Cheney even though Kerry is against gay marriage.... but then i noticed that you got the picture from a site named "dubyasworld" so i changed my mind, figuring you dont care about crazy things like facts.

The bush administration made gay marriage an issue with an attempt to circumvent state laws on this issue by trying to write discrimination against gays into the U.S. Constitution. Not Kerry. While true, he's against gay marriages, he's for gay unions. I guess your facts involve Republican spin.

Not to get too far off topic, but the states, mayors and judges, were already circumventing state laws. The bigger picture is states' rights. If a person breaks a law, he's a criminal. If what's his name, Roy Moore, breaks a law, he gets fired. Gavin Newsome gets praised for breaking the law.
If laws barring gay marriage are 'wrong', that's for the people and legislators to decide. A judge creating law, not just saying 'This law is unconstitutional', is a despot. I'm personally against gay marriage, but I'm also against a federal amendment about it. It should be left to the states and the local communities--the people thereof, not a black robed fascist.

[Quackzilla]

Yeah, fuck all that "pursuit of happiness" and "civil rights" jazz.

[CheapyD]

Ok, poll #2 starts today and lasts 30 days.

[bmulligan]

reluctantly, I'm forced to vote for Bush.

[Quackzilla]

reluctantly, I'm forced to vote for Bush.

You are hardcore Republican pretending to be an open minded independent.

[Zenithian Legend]

So, what was the final tally on the 1st poll?

[Quackzilla]

So, what was the final tally on the 1st poll?

Bush 36%
Kerry 54%

There is a picture of the last poll in the first post.

[Zenithian Legend]

Ah so there is... it didn't load right away and I just continued on scrolling through the thread... silly horse.

[Matrix2k3]

:( Why are most ppl my age pro-democrat? I was like the only person in my middle school that wanted Bush to beat Gore and got ridiculed about it, but gues who won? The funny thing is that now when everyone is against Bush, my best friend who joked about having nightmares about me jumping out of the bushes wearing a Bush mask is on my side.

[extzed]

not to get everyone all riled up, but it seems to be that the "richer" or "more wealthy" a person is they tend to be more republican in there views and the higher level or education obtained tends to vote more decomcratic.... that being said I know it is not true in all cases and whatnot

[The Successful Dropout]

Can we get a 'I haven't decided yet' option?

It's already there: It is invisible. Get it? :lol:

Seriously, if you haven't decided yet, but plan to vote, then just don't answer the poll until you DO decide. Simple! :wink:

the last time that i checked, "other" meant "something besides what was listed"....which would include "i havent decided yet"

[Adeptus Astartes]

Hmm let me see...

[Gothic Walrus]

I'm not voting...because I'm three days too young. :?

[bmulligan]

not to get everyone all riled up, but it seems to be that the "richer" or "more wealthy" a person is they tend to be more republican in there views and the higher level or education obtained tends to vote more decomcratic.... that being said I know it is not true in all cases and whatnot

It's not true at all. Considering the fact that 1/2 the voting public are republican voters seems to discount your theory. Based upon the Democrat premise that most of us are poor, downtrodden souls, you'd think a Democrat would be a shoe-in for president. You don't have to be rich to have republican values. Actually that's not true either, I should have said "consrervative" values. Republicans don't have much to do with conservatism. They are just as much about obtaining power over anything else- just like Democrats.

AND considering that the higher educated tend to me more wealthy, it also contradicts your theory. Perhaps you mean the educated in acedemia tend to lean democratic. If you've been to college, you know what I'm talking about.

[Quackzilla]

:( Why are most ppl my age pro-democrat? I was like the only person in my middle school that wanted Bush to beat Gore and got ridiculed about it, but gues who won? The funny thing is that now when everyone is against Bush, my best friend who joked about having nightmares about me jumping out of the bushes wearing a Bush mask is on my side.

Our President-elect is Al Gore.

[fireball343]

can't vote. it's a good thing to see that people actually care about voting and don't just blow it off.

[drunken_master]

I have noticed that anti bush is the cool thing these days. People who blindly trust Michael Moore over the "nut case" Rush Limbaugh really annoy me. His movie contained so many blatant lyes that the democratic party(Kerry at least) is not really acknowledging it. Both sides have faults. Both sides have good ideas. The Democratic ideas are unrealistic or just imposable. If you try to add up the numbers that Kerry is trying to push with spending and taxes they just end up making us spend more money.

Another thing that bush is being blamed for is the "slumping" economy. Bush inherited Clinton's Wildfire economy full of Enrons and Worldcomms. These helped lead to the slight slump. It was going down in the last year of Clinton's presidency anyway. Bush helped fund the IRS so they could find all of the Enron's out there and shut them down. Clinton took money away from the IRS.

Viva la Reagan

[drunken_master]

w007 fellow republican

Our President-elect is Al Gore.

No our president elect was George Bush.

Al Gore won the popular vote.
George Bush won the Electoral Collage.

The votes were independently recounted by hand many times and each time Bush won.

My state of Florida is very Republican. We have Jeb for 2 terms.

[Medium_Pimpin]

Amazing, and here i swore that %90 of CAG's were right wing wacko's.

[Cracka]

too bad 0% of CAGer's are in the electoral college, or Kerry might have a chance of winning.

[bmulligan]

too bad 0% of CAGer's are in the electoral college, or Kerry might have a chance of winning.

No, that's actually a good thing.

[thetoxicone]

I probably won't vote until we see a pro-wrestler in the ballots (Hogan/Warrior '08 would easily get my vote). I'm almost 24 and still haven't found a candidate that I really liked that made me get off my ass and vote. A Democracy gives us the right to vote but also gives us the right not to so until someone is actually worthy of my vote, they're not getting it since I'm not just going to play the lesser of two evils game and just vote for the guy I hate least.

[imori]

not to get everyone all riled up, but it seems to be that the "richer" or "more wealthy" a person is they tend to be more republican in there views and the higher level or education obtained tends to vote more decomcratic.... that being said I know it is not true in all cases and whatnot

It's not true at all. Considering the fact that 1/2 the voting public are republican voters seems to discount your theory. Based upon the Democrat premise that most of us are poor, downtrodden souls, you'd think a Democrat would be a shoe-in for president. You don't have to be rich to have republican values. Actually that's not true either, I should have said "consrervative" values. Republicans don't have much to do with conservatism. They are just as much about obtaining power over anything else- just like Democrats.

AND considering that the higher educated tend to me more wealthy, it also contradicts your theory. Perhaps you mean the educated in acedemia tend to lean democratic. If you've been to college, you know what I'm talking about.

I agree. It has less to do with wealth and more to do with how you think you fit into society. What do you owe those around you and what do they we you? People that believe that you are what you make yourself to be are going to be more conservative compared to those that think people are what society has formed them into.

[Rabidmuskrat]

http://www.electoral-vote.com/
Thought you guys might find that interesting. Shows the current up to date status of what state is going which way. It takes 270 electoral votes to have the majority. Notice that neither currently has the majority? That's because of the current swing states (FL, NV, and ME).

I personally am gonna vote for Nader. Not because I want him to win, but because I know that my state is so republican that my vote is worthless towards actually deciding who is president. So I'll put my vote towards attempting to abolish the 2 party system that I so despise.

[sblymnlcrymnl]

too bad 0% of CAGer's are in the electoral college, or Kerry might have a chance of winning.

No, that's actually a good thing.

Very good.

[CoffeeEdge]

I will be writing in Michael Moore as my vote. Ya know. Cause I'm a huge liberal and all.

[MorPhiend]

I'll still vote even though my vote is meaningless in pro-Republican Kansas. Makes me wish I lived in one of the swing states where a presidential vote mattered. Damn you electoral college!

At this point, swing states don't even matter... As of Friday (after the RNC's bounce plus the CBS scandal that turned out a fraud), most swing states have Bush as the majority vote and most liberal states are running pretty even. Dan Rather sure didn't help his cause with that crap. It's bologna and the public knows it.

extzed wrote:
not to get everyone all riled up, but it seems to be that the "richer" or "more wealthy" a person is they tend to be more republican in there views and the higher level or education obtained tends to vote more decomcratic.... that being said I know it is not true in all cases and whatnot


That's not true at all. Out of the four in the race (Bush/Chenney, Kerry/Edwards), Bush is the least wealthy. And it depends on your definition of highly educated. I won't say what I want to about that, only to keep from spewing forth political rhetoric. But considering the point of colleges being liberal that someone brought up, also consider the fact that this is the age where kids are able to think for themselves for the first time. They are out on their own and they are rebelious (many of them, anyway). When I was in my earlier education years, Bush won over Clinton and Dole won over Clinton in all of my honors and AP classes. Whereas the reverse was true in your run-of-the-mill required classes which had everyone in there.

I personally think that both guys are honorable guys who have both served their country well. The difference isn't whether or not one of them is going to atke care of the country or not, they both just have different views on how it should be done, not whether or not it should be done.

[MorPhiend]

I will be writing in Michael Moore as my vote. Ya know. Cause I'm a huge liberal and all.

You scare me...

Even the French saw through the fraud that was Farenheit 9/11.

[eddiesteel]

Bush cost me everything!!


Bush cost me my job, my kids and my houses.

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak my mind. I lost my job this past year. When Clinton was president I was secure and prosperous, but in the last year, we had to close our operations. We simply could not compete with foreign labor. This foreign labor worked for low pay under very bad conditions.

They worked very long shifts, and many even died on the job.

This competition could hardly be called "fair." I was forced out of the place where I had worked for 34 years.

Not a single government program was there to help me.

How can Bush call himself "compassionate?" Far worse, I lost two of my sons in Bush's evil war in Iraq. They gave their lives for their country, and for what? So that Bush's oil buddies can get rich. My pain of losing my sons is indescribable.

While it is trivial next to the loss of my sons, I regret to say that I also lost my home. I simply have nothing left. How can Bush call himself a Christian when he neglects people like me? I am a senior citizen with various medical problems. I'm not in a position where I can begin a new career. I was reduced to the point where I had to live in a hole in a ground, all because of President Bush.

And when the authorities found me there, did they have any compassion for my misfortune and ailments? No, I was arrested. Mr. Bush, I dare you to look me in the face and tell me you are a compassionate man! I dare you to look me in the face and tell me you are a Christian. If I had any money left, I would donate it to the Democrat Party.

If Al Gore had been elected in 2000 I would still have a job, a home, and most importantly, my dear sons!

Regards,
Saddam Hussein



Bush Cost Me Everything...
A father's letter to Bush
read by Pat Frisch
www.770kkob.com
Friday, March 26, 2004

[KaneRobot]

^^^^ Nice.

Well, Kerry certainly has a strong lead.

Not surprised. Many gamers are younger and the democratic party has a strong hold on the younger folks.

Keep in mind there are probably people outside the U.S. on this board voting for Kerry, as Bush is apparently Satan to everyone in Europe, etc.

The election will probably be pretty close, although not as close as Bush/Gore was, with Bush coming out on top.

[MorPhiend]

Nice one, eddiesteel. All too frighteningly true.

[Quackzilla]

If Farenheit 9/11 has so many lies, why don't you prove it and claim the $10,000 prize offered by Michael Moore?

[sblymnlcrymnl]

If Farenheit 9/11 has so many lies, why don't you prove it and claim the $10,000 prize offered by Michael Moore?

I didn't even know about that, but I'm sure that jackass would just deny them when confronted.

[CoffeeEdge]

If Farenheit 9/11 has so many lies, why don't you prove it and claim the $10,000 prize offered by Michael Moore?

Thank you! I don't understand why brain-washed right-wing drones keep denying it: Farhenheir 9/11 is full of HARD FACTS. Watch the movie with an open mind. You'll see the truth.

Down with America! Heh. Or at least, the dumb part of it.

[sblymnlcrymnl]

If Farenheit 9/11 has so many lies, why don't you prove it and claim the $10,000 prize offered by Michael Moore?

Thank you! I don't understand why brain-washed right-wing drones keep denying it: Farhenheir 9/11 is full of HARD FACTS. Watch the movie with an open mind. You'll see the truth.

Down with America! Heh. Or at least, the dumb part of it.

It's full of what once might have been facts, in their native state. Then Michael Moore got his greasy little hands on them and destroyed all credibility by distorting them into what may be considered lies.

[Usa Ghost]

This guy does a great job of debasing Moore. But of course feel free to email him and tell him hes wrong. :D


http://snipurl.com/fiftynine

[eddiesteel]

If Farenheit 9/11 has so many lies, why don't you prove it and claim the $10,000 prize offered by Michael Moore?

Thank you! I don't understand why brain-washed right-wing drones keep denying it: Farhenheir 9/11 is full of HARD FACTS. Watch the movie with an open mind. You'll see the truth.

Down with America! Heh. Or at least, the dumb part of it.

:imwithst:

How come all the left wing wacko's are always trying to take america down? Why are we always the bad guys? There in no other nation in this world that has more power and has used it more for the good and freedom of other nations than for bad. God bless America and all the soliders :twoguns: fighting for her. God bless George W Bush! And may God continue to bless this great nation.

[drunken_master]

If Farenheit 9/11 has so many lies, why don't you prove it and claim the $10,000 prize offered by Michael Moore?

Thank you! I don't understand why brain-washed right-wing drones keep denying it: Farhenheir 9/11 is full of HARD FACTS. Watch the movie with an open mind. You'll see the truth.

Down with America! Heh. Or at least, the dumb part of it.

:imwithst:

How come all the left wing wacko's are always trying to take america down? Why are we always the bad guys? There in no other nation in this world that has more power and has used it more for the good and freedom of other nations than for bad. God bless America and all the soliders :twoguns: fighting for her. God bless George W Bush! And may God continue to bless this great nation.

hear hear

[Lootr2Core]

I was gonna post some politcial opinion here, but then I decided to refrain as half the folks here are morons, half are idiots and half :) don't care.

[sblymnlcrymnl]

I was gonna post some politcial opinion here, but then I decided to refrain as half the folks here are morons, half are idiots and half :) don't care.

So are the ones who don't care idiots or are they morons?

[imori]

I was gonna post some politcial opinion here, but then I decided to refrain as half the folks here are morons, half are idiots and half :) don't care.

And which half are you? Please speak for yourself.

[eddiesteel]

I was gonna post some politcial opinion here, but then I decided to refrain as half the folks here are morons, half are idiots and half :) don't care.

Its a good thing there are people that do care. We would not have a country if not.

[Quackzilla]

:imwithst:

How come all the left wing wacko's are always trying to take america down? Why are we always the bad guys? There in no other nation in this world that has more power and has used it more for the good and freedom of other nations than for bad. God bless America and all the soliders :twoguns: fighting for her. God bless George W Bush! And may God continue to bless this great nation.

Are you high... or just incredibly stupid?

[Lootr2Core]

I was gonna post some politcial opinion here, but then I decided to refrain as half the folks here are morons, half are idiots and half :) don't care.

So are the ones who don't care idiots or are they morons?

nope separate catagory.

there are idiots.

there are morons

there are those that don't care.



someone asked which group I fit into......clearly moron.

[CoffeeEdge]

How come all the left wing wacko's are always trying to take america down? Why are we always the bad guys? There in no other nation in this world that has more power and has used it more for the good and freedom of other nations than for bad. God bless America and all the soliders :twoguns: fighting for her. God bless George W Bush! And may God continue to bless this great nation.

hear hear

Wow...do you guys thrive on being ignorant, brainwashed lemmings? :?

How come all the right wing wackos are always trying to defend this country? Why are we always the good guys? The US has used it's power for so many awful things recently and throughout it's history, there's simply no way to overlook it. It's not the country necessarily. The country could be fine. But it's the warmongers and right-wind/republican extremists that are making this country the laughing stock of the entire planet.

And the soldiers...They're not fighting to protect us...they're fighting to get us oil.

Glad to see Bush sorely beaten on this poll. :)

[Quackzilla]

Don't go there, most conservatives on this board say that the US did not commit war crimes in Vietnam, but that John Kerry and other liberal veterans committed war crimes in Vietnam because Kerry (a liberal) delivered the statements of many soldiers to congress, statements of soldiers claiming to have witness crimes against humanity perpetrated by many soldiers* and accusations against the Nixon administration of war crimes.

*Not all, not even most


__________

Did that makes sense? I hope not, because I don't understand that 'logic' and worry about people who do.

[drunken_master]

How come all the left wing wacko's are always trying to take america down? Why are we always the bad guys? There in no other nation in this world that has more power and has used it more for the good and freedom of other nations than for bad. God bless America and all the soliders :twoguns: fighting for her. God bless George W Bush! And may God continue to bless this great nation.

hear hear

Wow...do you guys thrive on being ignorant, brainwashed lemmings? :?

How come all the right wing wackos are always trying to defend this country? Why are we always the good guys? The US has used it's power for so many awful things recently and throughout it's history, there's simply no way to overlook it. It's not the country necessarily. The country could be fine. But it's the warmongers and right-wind/republican extremists that are making this country the laughing stock of the entire planet.

And the soldiers...They're not fighting to protect us...they're fighting to get us oil.

Glad to see Bush sorely beaten on this poll. :)

can't you just be accepting of other peoples opinion with out resorting to negitive statments. I think we should stick to facts in this thread form now on. It is turning into a flame war.

[DangerDave]

I actually have a opinion on this one, so I'm going to vote. I'm flaberghasted that Kerry is winning on this site. Democrats have always been the big spenders and big taxers. I want to save money for video games. Still, please guys, go out and vote. I don't know the percentages but I know they are pretty low for 18 to around 25 year olds.

[starman9000]

I actually have a opinion on this one, so I'm going to vote. I'm flaberghasted that Kerry is winning on this site. Democrats have always been the big spenders and big taxers.

I didnt know Bush was a democrat.....and besides, CAGS are big spenders, just because we get good deals doesnt mean we arent throwing away more than most on videogames.

[CoffeeEdge]

can't you just be accepting of other peoples opinion with out resorting to negitive statments. I think we should stick to facts in this thread form now on. It is turning into a flame war.

Umm...ditto? And in case you didn't notice, this entire thread is an OPINION POLL.

And anyway, I think you mean "tolerate," not "accept." "Accepting" something means you think it is right/correct. And I obviously do not think that those opinions are correct. Get your terms straight.

And you point out my so-called "negative statements," and it's obvious that you only did so because I am a pronounced liberal, but not the rediculously right-wing statements of eddiesteel, who, via emoticon, called me "stupid"? Do I smell the reek of bias? Of course!

And what are your "facts"? "George Bush is doing everything right, America is the greatest, America isn't doing anything wrong, and Michael Moore is a moron with no facts," right? Jeez.

[eddiesteel]

can't you just be accepting of other peoples opinion with out resorting to negitive statments. I think we should stick to facts in this thread form now on. It is turning into a flame war.

Umm...ditto? And in case you didn't notice, this entire thread is an OPINION POLL.

And anyway, I think you mean "tolerate," not "accept." "Accepting" something means you think it is right/correct. And I obviously do not think that those opinions are correct. Get your terms straight.

And you point out my so-called "negative statements," and it's obvious that you only did so because I am a pronounced liberal, but not the rediculously right-wing statements of eddiesteel, who, via emoticon, called me "stupid"? Do I smell the reek of bias? Of course!

And what are your "facts"? "George Bush is doing everything right, America is the greatest, America isn't doing anything wrong, and Michael Moore is a moron with no facts," right? Jeez.

Damn! I think he has it down.

[CoffeeEdge]

can't you just be accepting of other peoples opinion with out resorting to negitive statments. I think we should stick to facts in this thread form now on. It is turning into a flame war.

Umm...ditto? And in case you didn't notice, this entire thread is an OPINION POLL.

And anyway, I think you mean "tolerate," not "accept." "Accepting" something means you think it is right/correct. And I obviously do not think that those opinions are correct. Get your terms straight.

And you point out my so-called "negative statements," and it's obvious that you only did so because I am a pronounced liberal, but not the rediculously right-wing statements of eddiesteel, who, via emoticon, called me "stupid"? Do I smell the reek of bias? Of course!

And what are your "facts"? "George Bush is doing everything right, America is the greatest, America isn't doing anything wrong, and Michael Moore is a moron with no facts," right? Jeez.

Damn! I think he has it down.

You're damn right I do. :P

[drunken_master]

can't you just be accepting of other peoples opinion with out resorting to negitive statments. I think we should stick to facts in this thread form now on. It is turning into a flame war.

Umm...ditto? And in case you didn't notice, this entire thread is an OPINION POLL.

And anyway, I think you mean "tolerate," not "accept." "Accepting" something means you think it is right/correct. And I obviously do not think that those opinions are correct. Get your terms straight.

And you point out my so-called "negative statements," and it's obvious that you only did so because I am a pronounced liberal, but not the rediculously right-wing statements of eddiesteel, who, via emoticon, called me "stupid"? Do I smell the reek of bias? Of course!

And what are your "facts"? "George Bush is doing everything right, America is the greatest, America isn't doing anything wrong, and Michael Moore is a moron with no facts," right? Jeez.

Damn! I think he has it down.

You're damn right I do. :P

Well, I'm glad we all have an agreement. George Bush is doing everything right, America is the greatest, America isn't doing anything wrong, and Michael Moore is a moron with no facts

[CoffeeEdge]

Well, I'm glad we all have an agreement. George Bush is doing everything right, America is the greatest, America isn't doing anything wrong, and Michael Moore is a moron with no facts

Oh, DM, You're so funny, what with your brilliant arguments and deductions. Notice the quotes, smart guy.

Let me give me MY version: America sucks, is commiting some of the worst acts I've ever seen, is acting rediculously out of line with world standards, is totally ignoring all of the rest of the world's protests, and has a war-fetishist president who refuses to even listen to all but the most far-right opinions and proposals. Michael Moore is a beacon of truth, wheather you like it or not. And Ronald Reagan was a total and complete dipshit. May he rest in total misery in whatever hell he's in.

[stocker08]

Just because he is Pro-Bush(hehehe) it doesn't mean that he is un-american, and he's in cahoots with Osama Bin Laden, and hes a miserable failure.

He did say stupid things, such as "George Bush is doing everything right", (hehehe) and Michael Moore is a moron with no facts, because YOU CANT PROVE IT. Prove it stupid.

i have said everything i need to say...........Pro-Bush(hehehe)

[Quackzilla]

And Ronald Reagan was a total and complete dipshit. May he rest in total misery in whatever hell he's in.

I delieve 'trickle down economics' placed him in the fourth level of hell.

[David85]

I'm gay, what level of hell am I going to. :)

[Quackzilla]

I don't know, ask a baptist.

[MorPhiend]

Wow...do you guys thrive on being ignorant, brainwashed lemmings?

How come all the right wing wackos are always trying to defend this country? Why are we always the good guys? The US has used it's power for so many awful things recently and throughout it's history, there's simply no way to overlook it. It's not the country necessarily. The country could be fine. But it's the warmongers and right-wind/republican extremists that are making this country the laughing stock of the entire planet.

And the soldiers...They're not fighting to protect us...they're fighting to get us oil.

Glad to see Bush sorely beaten on this poll.

Move to France if you don't like it.

Let me give me MY version: America sucks, is commiting some of the worst acts I've ever seen, is acting rediculously out of line with world standards, is totally ignoring all of the rest of the world's protests, and has a war-fetishist president who refuses to even listen to all but the most far-right opinions and proposals. Michael Moore is a beacon of truth, wheather you like it or not. And Ronald Reagan was a total and complete dipshit. May he rest in total misery in whatever hell he's in.

Hey, move to France.

And anyway, I think you mean "tolerate," not "accept." "Accepting" something means you think it is right/correct. And I obviously do not think that those opinions are correct. Get your terms straight.

And as for that fallacious idea of the term accepting:
ac·cept - 4. To endure resignedly or patiently: accept one's fate.

Get a dictionary before you put your foot in your mouth.

[MorPhiend]

If Farenheit 9/11 has so many lies, why don't you prove it and claim the $10,000 prize offered by Michael Moore?

The freakin' film dropped out of site in the French box offices as quickly as it rose, just like in the U.S. No one with any credibility backs that crap. Why has Moore refused to go on any shows that won't let him get away with lying, like maybe The O'Reilly Factor. Sure, you probably don't believe that Bill is really fair and balanced, but wouldn't Moore be able to prove that what he says is true if he has such a strong case? Well, Moore finally did come on The Factor during the RNC, only because O'Reilly ran into him in person on the streets and challenged him to come in. But even then, he spun everything he was faced with and wouldn't answer a single question.

Furthermore, Moore has been invited to speak at Utah Valley State College in October and is being paid $40,000 to do so. The student body is outraged that their student fees are going to be lining Moore's pockets. So the college President has proposed that Sean Hannity come the same night and that they have a straight-forward debate. Hannity said he would do it, and only for travel costs, he is asking nothing more! But will Moore do it? Of course he refuses! He knows he would be blown out of the water!

Have Moore defend his garbage to someone who can give him credible opposition. Until then, it is nothing more than propaganda.

Besides, Moore is offering the accusations. It is not the innocent's job to prove themselves so. It is the accuser's job to prove one guilty.

[eddiesteel]

well said :P

[Death2Sanity]

Anybody who could not see that Farenheit 9/11 was pure propaganda and entertainment, not a documentary, scares me.

But, that movie wasn't made to change anybody's mind. You take out of it what you want to take out of it. So, I probably shouldn't even waste my time posting this.

But, just because you hear what you want to hear doesn't make it correct. (Of course, the opposite IS true as well...but there is no denying that the movie was a manipulation of facts, not a presentation of facts.)

[Death2Sanity]

He had one or two good points, but they were awash in a sea of bullshit. To use the people in his movie the way he did is a travesty. I felt no compassion from the man, he merely used the suffering of those presented to try to win a little argument and make a little money. To fight propaganda with propaganda, and to try to play it off as fact, is to be guilty of that which you're fighting against.

[Death2Sanity]

Michael Moore is a beacon of truth, wheather you like it or not. And Ronald Reagan was a total and complete dipshit. May he rest in total misery in whatever hell he's in.

OMG your so hardcore roffle.

(grammar/spelling/various other mistakes done for effect)

[Quackzilla]

If Farenheit 9/11 has so many lies, why don't you prove it and claim the $10,000 prize offered by Michael Moore?

The freakin' film dropped out of site in the French box offices as quickly as it rose, just like in the U.S. No one with any credibility backs that crap. Why has Moore refused to go on any shows that won't let him get away with lying, like maybe The O'Reilly Factor. Sure, you probably don't believe that Bill is really fair and balanced, but wouldn't Moore be able to prove that what he says is true if he has such a strong case? Well, Moore finally did come on The Factor during the RNC, only because O'Reilly ran into him in person on the streets and challenged him to come in. But even then, he spun everything he was faced with and wouldn't answer a single question.

Furthermore, Moore has been invited to speak at Utah Valley State College in October and is being paid $40,000 to do so. The student body is outraged that their student fees are going to be lining Moore's pockets. So the college President has proposed that Sean Hannity come the same night and that they have a straight-forward debate. Hannity said he would do it, and only for travel costs, he is asking nothing more! But will Moore do it? Of course he refuses! He knows he would be blown out of the water!

Have Moore defend his garbage to someone who can give him credible opposition. Until then, it is nothing more than propaganda.

Besides, Moore is offering the accusations. It is not the innocent's job to prove themselves so. It is the accuser's job to prove one guilty.

Why did you quote my post then spew a load of crap to avoid answering it?

If you are going to avoid a questoin, instead of quoting it, just shut up.

[MorPhiend]

I thought you wouldn't need that specific of an explanation. The point is, he avoids anyone who has the capability to debunk him. And these people I mentioned have much more ability and power to get him to talk to them than I do, and he won't talk to them. Why would he talk to a 'nobody' like me. Face it, your hero is a coward who hides behind lies.

[E-Z-B]

I thought you wouldn't need that specific of an explanation. The point is, he avoids anyone who has the capability to debunk him. And these people I mentioned have much more ability and power to get him to talk to them than I do, and he won't talk to them. Why would he talk to a 'nobody' like me. Face it, your hero is a coward who hides behind lies.

Again, you say "lies". What are they? Moore got his information from news reports and strung it together into a documentary. You can go to his website and see where he got his references, line by line.

[MorPhiend]

And statistics also show that over 80% of the "elite media" are far left bomb-throwing sympathizers. So of course there are going to be those who would be able to be "sources". Just look at this CBS scandal. Rather was far too eager to slap Bush around with some so-called documents. And now they have had to retract and give a general apology. And it turns out that their source was someone who has been trying to destroy Bush for years, and everytime, he gets debunked. Don't believe everything you hear.

And I'm not far-right, just to assure you. I also believe that the Swiftboat Vets need to straighten up as well. I take things on a case by case situation. And just like the SB Vets, Moore is full of crap.

[Quackzilla]

What statistics? State your source.

http://www-scf.usc.edu/~sukamto/owned.jpg

[Hereticked]

The fact that these brain-dead freepers and ditto-heads have the uncontrollable urge to attack Michael Moore every chance they can in any political discussion on the internet proves just how effective Fahrenheit 9/11 was at exposing the MOUNTAIN OF LIES AND STUPID republicans/conservatives are forced to believe today in order to cling to their bankrupt ideaology.

I also love whoever it was that said Fahrenheit 9/11 flopped at the box office.... try actually looking it up next time, chuckles :twisted:

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/fahrenheit_911/numbers.php

$118 million is good for any movie, record-smashing for a documentary.


As far as I'm concenred, democrats/liberals/progressives can't lose in the upcoming election. If Kerry wins, theres a small ray of hope that this country won't be completely sucked into hell and the rebuilding can begin. If Bush wins.... sayonara.

All you knee-jerk psuedo patriots who tell those who actually hold their own nation responsible for its actions to "go to France".... well I'll be more than happy to move to Canada or Europe.

You can stay here as the US slides into the cess pool of debt and chaos that Too-Stupid-To-Be-Preisdent Bush and his cabal of oil and defense industry handlers have created.

[MorPhiend]

The fact that these brain-dead freepers and ditto-heads have the uncontrollable urge to attack Michael Moore every chance they can in any political discussion on the internet proves just how effective Fahrenheit 9/11 was at exposing the MOUNTAIN OF LIES AND STUPID republicans/conservatives are forced to believe today in order to cling to their bankrupt ideaology.

I also love whoever it was that said Fahrenheit 9/11 flopped at the box office.... try actually looking it up next time, chuckles

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/fahrenheit_911/numbers.php

$118 million is good for any movie, record-smashing for a documentary.


As far as I'm concenred, democrats/liberals/progressives can't lose in the upcoming election. If Kerry wins, theres a small ray of hope that this country won't be completely sucked into hell and the rebuilding can begin. If Bush wins.... sayonara.

All you knee-jerk psuedo patriots who tell those who actually hold their own nation responsible for its actions to "go to France".... well I'll be more than happy to move to Canada or Europe.

You can stay here as the US slides into the cess pool of debt and chaos that Too-Stupid-To-Be-Preisdent Bush and his cabal of oil and defense industry handlers have created.

First of all, you either need to learn how not to spin/lie or you just need to learn how to read. Try it again:

The freakin' film dropped out of site in the French box offices as quickly as it rose, just like in the U.S.

Not only does that statement not say anything about the film (not documentary) being a flop, but it actually acknowledges the fact that the thing was a box office hit. No, it doesn't say it bluntly, but that is called a partially or unstated assumption, an element of an argument that the differing parties both understand. Look closely. It "dropped out of site... as quickly as it rose...". My statement says that it vanished. In that line there, that would imply that it shot straight to number one! Don't be so quick in your fanaticism that you are blinded to truth.

Another point you may want to consider is your name calling and bomb-throwing. Calling everyone stupid over and over and not having any coherent thoughts to share immediately takes any credibility away from you which you otherwise may have had. You need to realize that you aren't trying to convince those who already agree with you. There's no quicker way in fact to get someone to disagree with you than to keep trying to drive home the point to them with which they already agree. And when you disregard through insults those you should want to convince, you only end up speaking with those who already share your view.

As far as I'm concenred, democrats... can't lose in the upcoming election.

I'm going to hold you to that. This thing is so close, that anyone (except Nader) can win.

And statistics also show that over 80% of the "elite media" are far left bomb-throwing sympathizers.
What statistics? State your source.

Sorry I've taken so long to reply to that. I've been in classes all day and have just been checking this thread when I get a chance. And you are right, I do need to tell you where I got that. I just assumed that people were familiar with that stat. I'll have to look it up when I have some more time and post it.

Oh, and BTW (to Hereticked): Just so you don't turn around and say that my mentioning your fanaticism is name calling, its not. Its a normal term used in argumentative writing and the definition is:

fa·nat·i·cism - Excessive, irrational zeal. or Excessive enthusiasm, unreasoning zeal, or wild and extravagant notions, on any subject, especially religion; religious frenzy.

There is a difference between a fanatic and a skeptic. A fanatic can't be reasoned with. A skeptic might ask questions, but in the pursuit of answers, not to "prove" their own skewed ideology.

[KingDox]

Hey guys I just want to drop some info for you all. If you got to vote and they pull a "you can't vote because you don't have ID" then tell them you want an "Provisional Ballot" .

You can also use a Provisonal Ballot if your name does not appear on the lists of registered voters for your precinct.

What is a Provisional Ballot ? It's a ballot that can be entered but will not be counted untill your status to vote is verified.

The rules are a bit different for each state as to what you can use for ID, you should be able to find your state info by using google and putting in your state and the words "Provisional Ballot".

Any one who can vote in this election should vote,

DO NOT LET THEM TURN YOU AWAY!

[MorPhiend]

Thanks for the info KingDox. You're right. I don't care who people vote for (well, I do in a way), but everyone should vote!

[CoffeeEdge]

All I can say is that you amuse me, MorPhiend, in a sad, sad sort of way. And nice job, Hereticked. These right-wing bastards will see the error of their ways some day...I hope.

[uncbaseballfreak]

Not all right wingers are bastards.

By the way whats up with John Kerry supporting the Iraq war, then yesterday claiming invading Iraq was a dumb thing?

(I smell a flip-flop)
And personally I feel much safer with a president who seeks to protect our nation, with or without the damn UN or France.

[E-Z-B]

(I smell a flip-flop)

Is it this?

http://www.dubyasworld.com/great-dubya-flip-flops-3.jpg

[Quackzilla]

Rich, but not smooth.

[sblymnlcrymnl]

Rich, but not smooth.

:lol:

[E-Z-B]

Maybe he smells this one then:

http://www.dubyasworld.com/great-dubya-flip-flops.jpg

[uncbaseballfreak]

Accounts of Kerry's Flip-flops-
http://www.georgewbush.com/kerrymediacenter/read.aspx?ID=2439


Some right wing fun-
http://www.georgewbush.com/olympics/

[arsenalgear]

I'm disappointed to see there's no Nader/Camejo option...they're a viable third-party ticket, and are on the ballot in almost all the states.

[Rich]

What statistics? State your source.

http://www-scf.usc.edu/~sukamto/owned.jpg

Are you serious? I thought his 80% was being generous. I don't know why you would need a source--it's a well known fact that the "elite media" is slanted to the left. I'd recommend the book Bias to anyone, from Bernard Goldberg, former CBS anchor who pretty much ruined his career for writing about the liberal bias in the "elite media." It was a best seller for some time.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0060520841.01._PE20_PIdp-schmooS,TopRight,7,-26_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060520841/qid=1095995061/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/102-5040912-7236119?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

And before you bring it up, Goldberg himself is even a liberal.

[Quackzilla]

Bernard Goldberg

He calls himself a liberal? And you believe him?
Is FOX News Fair & Balanced?

How gullible are you? Did you even read that book?

Whats next, is Bill O'Riley a liberal Democrat?

Just stop posting those bullsit claims, dude. Nobody beliieves them but gullible morons such as yourself.

It's too bad that there are no pills that cure stupid, because you really need them right now.

[Rich]

Bernard Goldberg

He calls himself a liberal? And you believe him?
Is FOX News Fair & Balanced?

How gullible are you? Did you even read that book?

Whats next, is Bill O'Riley a liberal Democrat?

Just stop posting those bullsit claims, dude. Nobody beliieves them but gullible morons such as yourself.

It's too bad that there are no pills that cure stupid, because you really need them right now.

The man made it on CBS for 28 years. You're going to tell me he's NOT a liberal?

[MorPhiend]

Why is it that no one believes someone for who they say they affiliate themselves with if they have a differing view than them on even just one point? Are you going to say that Dick Morris is a right-wing conservative now???

[Quackzilla]

If you read his books and literature it is pretty damn obvious that he is a right wing conservative.

Of course, you haven't read his works, have you?

[drunken_master]

Isn't it funny how much people hate one another. Lets see a show of hands how many of you can vote so I can know wheather or not your opinions will matter in the comming election.

I know Coffeeedge is under 18 so nothing he says matters, who else.

[Quackzilla]

I just got my new voter registration card on Friday.

It's a Virginia voter card, and it has 2 fold lines.

[cyberlian]

I just droped my bush ballot into the box
(it will be the same in november)

[CaseyRyback]

Kerry
Easley
Bowles


thats who all I am voting for this year.

More inclined to vote aganist Bush, because of what he did to the Texas economy, and the people around him

Voting for Easley, because he has done a really good job with all the problems with NC

Bowles gets my vote, because he does not vote the party line 96 percent of the time and just killed Burr in the Debate. All Burr did was smirk and try to look like George Bush

[pfunkpearl]

Kerry pwned bush like a school girl. Anyone who watched the debate and still wants to vote for bush is obviously missing their brain. Kerry presented clear facts and plans while bush stuttered about america is in danger america is in danger, while never stating any real intent of fixing the problem.

[defender]

I guess I must be missing my brain.

I must also be deaf since I didn't hear Kerry make any real plans either.

[Pylis]

I agree with Defender. Kerry's "plan" is "I'll hold a summit." That's about it. I'll agree with Kerry that getting other nations involved would be nice and all, but I didn't hear him explain how he plans to do so. I don't see France or Germany coming to America's side any time soon.

[Quackzilla]

Just because you are in denial doesn't make you right.

[Pylis]

And just because you tell me I'm in denial doesn't make you right, either.

[pfunkpearl]

Kerry spoke with with ease and conviction while bush dodged questions and resorted personal attacks. The last resort of a desperate politician. I find it ironic that the terrible storms are hitting Florida, seeing as they are acts of global warming and they were state that put george bush, who could give 2 shits about the environment, into power. The Irony is thick.

[drunken_master]

Kerry spoke with with ease and conviction while bush dodged questions and resorted personal attacks. The last resort of a desperate politician. I find it ironic that the terrible storms are hitting Florida, seeing as they are acts of global warming and they were state that put george bush, who could give 2 shits about the environment, into power. The Irony is thick.

1. That global warming bullshit has nothing to do with the hurricanes.
2. Fuck you for associating bush with hurricanes like it is his fault.
3. I live just north of Fort Myres, one of the hardest hit, and I am damed lucky to still have a house, where as several of my friends have very little house.
4. The hurricanes were not caused by global warming and only someone who is truly ignorant would draw those conclusions.

[E-Z-B]

Kerry spoke with with ease and conviction while bush dodged questions and resorted personal attacks. The last resort of a desperate politician. I find it ironic that the terrible storms are hitting Florida, seeing as they are acts of global warming and they were state that put george bush, who could give 2 shits about the environment, into power. The Irony is thick.

1. That global warming bullshit has nothing to do with the hurricanes.
2. shaq-fu you for associating bush with hurricanes like it is his fault.
3. I live just north of Fort Myres, one of the hardest hit, and I am damed lucky to still have a house, where as several of my friends have very little house.
4. The hurricanes were not caused by global warming and only someone who is truly ignorant would draw those conclusions.

How do you that four consecutive hurricanes are NOT caused by global warming? How are you drawing that conclusion?

[E-Z-B]

I guess I must be missing my brain.

I must also be deaf since I didn't hear Kerry make any real plans either.

I heard his plan - it was to get the international community involved with the rebuilding of iraq. He restated it over and over.

I missed BUSH's plans for iraq - must've been when I went to the fridge to get a coke.

[MrBadExample]

1. That global warming bullshit has nothing to do with the hurricanes.
2. shaq-fu you for associating bush with hurricanes like it is his fault.


http://bash.org/GODvsBUSH.gif

P.S. I'm not belittling anyone who was hit hard by the recent hurricanes. I just thought this was funny.

[Quackzilla]

It's funny because afterwards Ivan did a loop out into the Atlantic and came back into the gulf then hit Texas.

[pfunkpearl]

Kerry spoke with with ease and conviction while bush dodged questions and resorted personal attacks. The last resort of a desperate politician. I find it ironic that the terrible storms are hitting Florida, seeing as they are acts of global warming and they were state that put george bush, who could give 2 shits about the environment, into power. The Irony is thick.

1. That global warming bullshit has nothing to do with the hurricanes.
2. shaq-fu you for associating bush with hurricanes like it is his fault.
3. I live just north of Fort Myres, one of the hardest hit, and I am damed lucky to still have a house, where as several of my friends have very little house.
4. The hurricanes were not caused by global warming and only someone who is truly ignorant would draw those conclusions.

How do you that four consecutive hurricanes are NOT caused by global warming? How are you drawing that conclusion?

Is it that hard to realize we are destroying the planet and bush is making it easier for big corporations to pollute as much as they want? "Global warming" doesn't mean "der it's gets hotter" it actually is heating of the planet that does effect storms, water condition, precepatation etc. Not to sound like some hippie, but this planet is in very bad shape and is headed for worse if bush is reelected. Just remember that in 20 years when you can't go outside and breath fresh air. It was bushes fault, the anti-environment president.

[Dezuria]

Bush and his buddies scare us into voting for him. Didn't someone say something like "a vote for Kerry is a vote for a terrorist attack" or something similar?

I do not choose Bush because he doesn't care about America's problems. He just obsesses over Iraq and wars. Bush has done almost nothing to make America safer, and in the process of trying, he has totally ignored most of our problems. He should just become the president of Iraq. Bush destroyed what Clinton had going with the economy.

In the end, no matter who you vote for, for whatever reason, most of what they tell us isn't totally true, so we're really just voting for the lesser of two evils.

It seems people are voting for Bush because they think America has no problems, and it's all about war and keeping us safe, as if we're always being bombed or something.

First of all, we're safe. Second, we're even safer if we stop pissing off all the brown people in other countries by invading them.

One last rant. I hate it when people say that Bush is at war because he is defending our freedom. Ok, realize that NO terrorist can take away our bill of rights or anything like that. In reality, the only one who can truly take our freedom is the government.

Where is the "Screw it, I'm moving to Canada" option?

[pfunkpearl]

And the bush adminastration is taking our freedom and rights away in the name of "security". The patriot act, and the many smaller laws that were quickly floated through congress right after 9/11.

Bush cares about nothing but war mongerer, his education reform is fucking joke. "NO child left behind" is the biggest peice of bullshit. It doesn't encourage teaching kids anything, it encourages teachers to show kids how to take these standerized tests as opposed to actually learning anything. Maybe some kids should be left behind...because they aren't meant for school. You shouldn't punish the smart ones by turning everything into standardized testing where your not learning and retaining anything.

You bush supporters do realize at the rate bush is going there won't be any social security left if he is reelected. Which means when your parents retire they be moving in with you!

Some people are worried Kerry will raise taxes, well you do realize Bush has putt he country into debt again, when he got the country from clinton we had a huge surplus in our funding now we have a huge deficiate. "But bush gives tax cuts" like $100 to the average person. Average maning making under $60k combined house income. YOu know how much people making more than a million a year get? $150k+ tax breaks. SO you are getting long end of the stick. You're getting fucked by it.

[basketkase543]

In support of pfunkpearl's claim, here is a specific example of how Bush has put the welface of our ecosystem in his lowest level of interest. The Kyoto Protocol was a treaty aimed at reducing emissions of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases. The U.S. was one of many countries who agreed to reduce these emissions by 2010. Now under Bush's administration, the U.S. has withdrawn from the process and we have all lost yet another opportunity at reducing the factors that lead to global warming.

[roland13x]

But Bush's daughters are way hotter than Kerry's....

/still voting Kerry
/mmmmmmm.....Barbara

[CoffeeEdge]

Pfunkpearl and Dezuria, nice posts. :) The logical, undeniable arguments against Bush are so strong, I don't see how anyone can deny it. It's just pure, blind stupidity.

The only people who would support him are probably worried about "SCARY TERRORISTS PLANTING BOMBS IN OUR PANTS!!"

Bush is a warmonger who compromises our rights (Patriot Act), disregards our government's system of checks-and-balances (Dept of Homeland Security), puts us back into debt after Clinton left us with a surplus, disregards the UN, disregards the enviroment, disregards concerns other than his own, and pretty much everything else that a president could do wrong.

I mean, come on, look at the fool he made of himself at the debate. That was utterly hilarous, and your Republicans cannot possibly, in honesty, no matter how right-wing you are, say that he did anything but fall on his face in that. Basically, his reply to everything was "TERRORISTS BAD. Gotta SMOKE EM OUT." He utterly made a joke of himself.

And yet some morons will still vote for him because of the "great things he's doing for Iraq" and "CAUSE IT'S JUST PLAIN AMERICAN." Go figure. <_<

[E-Z-B]

Is it time for a new poll?

[coffman]

Kerry spoke with with ease and conviction while bush dodged questions and resorted personal attacks. The last resort of a desperate politician. I find it ironic that the terrible storms are hitting Florida, seeing as they are acts of global warming and they were state that put george bush, who could give 2 shits about the environment, into power. The Irony is thick.

1. That global warming bullshit has nothing to do with the hurricanes.
2. shaq-fu you for associating bush with hurricanes like it is his fault.
3. I live just north of Fort Myres, one of the hardest hit, and I am damed lucky to still have a house, where as several of my friends have very little house.
4. The hurricanes were not caused by global warming and only someone who is truly ignorant would draw those conclusions.

It is predicted that as global warming becomes more severe, the strength and intensity of hurricanes will increase. Category 5 storms are predicted to be the norm in the worst case global warming scenario. As the ocean temperature rises it could in theory produce more storms, some of which would result in hurricanes.

[CheapyD]

Is it time for a new poll?
I think we are just going to ride this out to Election Day.

[drunken_master]

Kerry spoke with with ease and conviction while bush dodged questions and resorted personal attacks. The last resort of a desperate politician. I find it ironic that the terrible storms are hitting Florida, seeing as they are acts of global warming and they were state that put george bush, who could give 2 shits about the environment, into power. The Irony is thick.

1. That global warming bullshit has nothing to do with the hurricanes.
2. shaq-fu you for associating bush with hurricanes like it is his fault.
3. I live just north of Fort Myres, one of the hardest hit, and I am damed lucky to still have a house, where as several of my friends have very little house.
4. The hurricanes were not caused by global warming and only someone who is truly ignorant would draw those conclusions.

It is predicted that as global warming becomes more severe, the strength and intensity of hurricanes will increase. Category 5 storms are predicted to be the norm in the worst case global warming scenario. As the ocean temperature rises it could in theory produce more storms, some of which would result in hurricanes.

If you had bothered to do your reserch than you would know that the avrage rise in tepriture for the past 100 years is acualy lower than what it was 500 years ago.

[E-Z-B]

Kerry spoke with with ease and conviction while bush dodged questions and resorted personal attacks. The last resort of a desperate politician. I find it ironic that the terrible storms are hitting Florida, seeing as they are acts of global warming and they were state that put george bush, who could give 2 shits about the environment, into power. The Irony is thick.

1. That global warming bullshit has nothing to do with the hurricanes.
2. shaq-fu you for associating bush with hurricanes like it is his fault.
3. I live just north of Fort Myres, one of the hardest hit, and I am damed lucky to still have a house, where as several of my friends have very little house.
4. The hurricanes were not caused by global warming and only someone who is truly ignorant would draw those conclusions.

It is predicted that as global warming becomes more severe, the strength and intensity of hurricanes will increase. Category 5 storms are predicted to be the norm in the worst case global warming scenario. As the ocean temperature rises it could in theory produce more storms, some of which would result in hurricanes.

If you had bothered to do your reserch than you would know that the avrage rise in tepriture for the past 100 years is acualy lower than what it was 500 years ago.

:roll:

Since the beginning of the 20th century, the mean surface temperature of the earth has increased by about 1.1º F (0.6°Celsius).

Over the last 40 years, which is the period with most reliable data, the temperature increased by about 0.5 º F (0.2-0.3°Celsius).


Warming in the 20th century is greater than at any time during the past 400-600 years.

Seven of the ten warmest years in the 20th century occurred in the 1990s. 1998, with global temperatures spiking due to one of the strongest El Niños on record, was the hottest year since reliable instrumental temperature measurements began.

http://www.ucsusa.org/global_environment/global_warming/index.cfm

So where did you get your information from? The RNC website?

[coffman]

Kerry spoke with with ease and conviction while bush dodged questions and resorted personal attacks. The last resort of a desperate politician. I find it ironic that the terrible storms are hitting Florida, seeing as they are acts of global warming and they were state that put george bush, who could give 2 shits about the environment, into power. The Irony is thick.

1. That global warming bullshit has nothing to do with the hurricanes.
2. shaq-fu you for associating bush with hurricanes like it is his fault.
3. I live just north of Fort Myres, one of the hardest hit, and I am damed lucky to still have a house, where as several of my friends have very little house.
4. The hurricanes were not caused by global warming and only someone who is truly ignorant would draw those conclusions.

It is predicted that as global warming becomes more severe, the strength and intensity of hurricanes will increase. Category 5 storms are predicted to be the norm in the worst case global warming scenario. As the ocean temperature rises it could in theory produce more storms, some of which would result in hurricanes.

If you had bothered to do your reserch than you would know that the avrage rise in tepriture for the past 100 years is acualy lower than what it was 500 years ago.

You have no idea what you are talking about. I actually do volunteer work in this field. See the post by EZB to learn a little bit about the current warming trend. Core samples show that the current warming trend began at the same time as the beginning of the industrial age (i.e. when coal was starting to be burned in large quantities). If anyone cares for more information, I'll gladly provide it!

[supermariomelee]

Somehow I voted to Pat Buchanan in the poll :shock: That poll is confusing. :wink: But I probably going to stick with the person that I'm voting for anyway since I've pretty much made up my mind.

[Quackzilla]

Kerry still has shrapnel stuck in him from the "scratch" he inflicted upon himself.

That should put the swiftvet ads in perspective.

[David85]

There are a problem with the chads.....

The numbers that have been really counted are

Bush - 15
Kerry - 27
Other - 14
Al Gore - 6

:D

[StupidFoo]

I am sure most people here are in the drafting age and are still voting for Kerry. Don't be upset when we all get drafted if he is elected. The one thing I like about Bush is that he atleast says there won't be a draft.

[hooshang]

I'm no american resident but i'd choose other.

[coffman]

I am sure most people here are in the drafting age and are still voting for Kerry. Don't be upset when we all get drafted if he is elected. The one thing I like about Bush is that he atleast says there won't be a draft.

The Kerry campaign has said repeatedly that there will be no draft if he is elected president.

[Mospeada_21]

Bring back Clinton for another 2 terms.

[musha666]

There is no way anyone would institute a draft. Its political Suicide.... Both canditates have their problems, might as well keep things simple and leave Bush in to finish his term.

[E-Z-B]

There is no way anyone would institute a draft. Its political Suicide.... Both canditates have their problems, might as well keep things simple and leave Bush in to finish his term.

That's fine with me. His term's over in ~3 months anyway. Good riddance.

[musha666]

Maybe it will be over in 3 months maybe it wont be. Either way there will be an idiot as President. Being from Mass, i just hope it isnt Kerry.

[turdferguson]

Anyone capable enough to run for president isn't an idiot. I can't stand John Kerry but I wouldn't insult my own intelligence by calling him an idiot. You, musha666, made a very telling remark about your own intelligence with such a low-brow statement.

[MorPhiend]

Anyone capable enough to run for president isn't an idiot. I can't stand John Kerry but I wouldn't insult my own intelligence by calling him an idiot. You, musha666, made a very telling remark about your own intelligence with such a low-brow statement.

That statement makes no sense. Sure you can run for President and be an idiot. Is there something in the constitution that prohibits that, which I am not aware of? And if so, how do they judge? Is there an Idiot-O-Meter? And how is that insulting his own intelligence? I don't follow you. Besides, there have been plenty of idiots who have run for President. There have even been idiots who have been President. But that's fine, the people elected these men. That just shows their intelligence. But just because someone is smart enough to identify (in their opinion) an idiot and decide they will not vote for them does not insult their intelligence. If anything, it exemplifies their intelligence.

(I am not endorsing the previously criticized opinion, just pointing out that this kid makes no sense.)

[fireball343]

There is no way anyone would institute a draft. Its political Suicide.... Both canditates have their problems, might as well keep things simple and leave Bush in to finish his term.

there is no need for a draft, the voulenteer system is fine at the moment and will be for many years to come, the draft was already proposed and turned down. it's not going to happen, rockthevote.com(along with other sites and organizations) have refused to stop saying there will be a draft under bush.

www.kerryoniraq.com you can order the free dvd or watch it online, it is a video compiled of interviews, speeches and other media of John Kerry himself thoughout the past 3 years and his postitions on the war in iraq.

here's the trailer, it is cut at bad points that make some of it seem doctored, but if you watch the whole thing you'll see for your self.
http://media1.streamtoyou.com/rnc/RNC132004T.wmv

[bmulligan]

I don't like John Kerry but I have to say that I've had differing opinions on Iraq over the last 2 years also. It's a luxury most of us have because we are NOT the president.

What I don't like is the fact that the administration has muddied the waters regarding the war. We went in to enforce the UN resolution 1441, period. There was more than enough evidence that the original cease fire terms from 1991 were being violated and we had every right to do so.

Bush and his team felt the need to hype nuclear capabilities and launch a propaganda campaign about Saddam being a bad guy. And, while not directly saying there was a 9/11 link, allowed the comparisons to propagate unchallenged in the popular mindset for their own benefit.

[dtcarson]

That's true.
But if we went in saying 'We're going to enforce UN Res 1441', the most common comment from the media and the public would probably be 'But we're not the 'World Police', let the UN do it', etc.
The hyping of nuclear/wmd capabilities was indeed, though based on intelligence and research many countries shared, meant to 'sell' the attack to Joe Public, who generally has a very short attention span and likes things in short, easy to understand bursts.

[romeogbs19]

I can't see the reasoning in anyone who votes for George Bush, period. In the last two months, we've been told by his own administration (Bremmer and Powell) that the war on Iraq was not only ill-justified, but driven with no exit strategy or plan to win the peace.

You don't take US troops -- sons, daughters, fathers of families -- and rush into war with bad intelligence, no post-war plan, and when it was apparent most of your key allies were obviously against you.

Sure, we haven't lost nearly as many troops in Iraq as we did in 'Nam, but make no mistake, the Iraqi war will be remembered in American history as the 'Nam of the new generation. What Bush has created in Iraq is nothing short of a foreign affairs nightmare -- a quagmire that's sure to last for at least another (as Bush's own generals have said) five to ten years.

Re: the draft -- though Bush denies he'll institute it, we essentially have a "back-door" draft going on right now. Who do you think goes to war as families get pinched by this ever-dismal economy. As Bush's so-called tax cuts continue to strain middle class Americans, who's kids do you think end up going to war? It's not the wealthiest 1% of America's parents whose sending kids over. Draft or no draft, the US will need FAR MORE troops to get the job done in Iraq -- if we don't increase troop presence, Iraq will take longer than five years, and that, my friends, is a quagmire we don't want to be in -- democrat or republican.

Fact is Bush, IMO, will offer "more of the same." He's pretty much said exactly that on his campaign trail. What has he said that makes you think he's going to change his policy? He continues to say Kerry can't get the support of allies -- no offense, Mr. President, but Mr. Kerry has a far better chance of getting any internation support than you ever will.

What I like about Kerry is that he understands not just warfare, but the consequences of war. What the heck are we taught all the time in English, anyways? Haven't we read the books by Hemingway, the poetry of Crane, and the warnings by Faulkner? War is always the "LAST RESORT," and whether you support Bush or not, you can't look me in the eye and say we went into Iraq as a "last resort" -- we never gave the weapons inspections team a fair chance, we never even bothered to look at the intelligence from UN nations -- Bush and his team sold us his war, and now, we're all paying the price -- all $200 billion of it -- in lives, resources, and waste.

I say waste because no matter how much we invest in Iraq, we've already ruined our chances of coming out as heroes. Over 90% of Iraqis have unfavorable opinions of the US, and just ask the rest of the Middle East how they feel about us -- and the percentatge is even higher.

Another Bush term will mean further separation from European allies -- many here in the US just don't understand that a global war on terror requires global allies. How can you fight a war that spans continents if everyone -- EVERYONE except Britain and (lmao) Poland are your allies? You can't -- you end up bearing an unimaginable burden, and you appear weak to the rest of the world -- to you allies and to your enemies.

What the Bush Administration did was as Kerry rightfully put it -- a colossal error in judgment. He has stretched our forces so thin we're pulling troops out of the DMZ, the zone that divides a democratic South Korea and the now nuclear-capable North Korea. We're trying to piece together the mess in Iraq while Iran continues to expand its uranium enriching process.

And while we continue to waste resources in Iraq, domestic spending will continue to decline, and our families will continue to struggle. Bush's tax cut plan is a joke -- if anyone cares to look at that plan closely, I can't believe anyone who's not making more than $200k is supporting it. It's tax cuts like that that are growing the gap between the haves and the have-nots -- and it's only going to get worse under another 4 yrs. of Bush.

Kerry understands that we need the rest of the world to end the Iraqi war. He understands that the greatest asset this country has is in its hard-working middle class -- and he rightfully shifts the tax cuts to help them. The rich are just fine as they are. Most importantly, he has the judgment and careful thinking of a true president. It's one thing to be defiant, it's another to be stubborn and "steadfast" in the face of truth. Bush just doesn't get it -- he thinks all is fine. Well, when you tell Russert in an interview that you rely on your cabinet members for "objective" news and that you never read the newspapers -- well, you're no president of the people -- you're a president beholden to your own agenda. In an ironic way, Bush is Sadaam of another sort -- just as Sadaam was often told his military was falsely strong and loyal, Bush seems to think his GOP powerhouse and the American people love him.

Well, he's in for a rude awakening when he wakes up on Nov. 3. I am confident the American will see past the GOP's scare tactics and spin of the truth -- just turn on your TV to PBS and watch the real news, heck, even turn on BBC -- the reality is not covered by MSNBC or ABC -- the real media is in the independent press.

Don't be fooled by Bush and his distortions. This election should not be as close as it is. All that proves is how well the GOP controls the media casual Americans watch everyday.

Vote on Nov. 2 for change. Vote Kerry-Edwards.

[Quackzilla]

Kerry still has shrapnel stuck in him from the "scratch" he inflicted upon himself.

That should put the swiftvet ads in perspective.

[CappyCobra]

I actually have a opinion on this one, so I'm going to vote. I'm flaberghasted that Kerry is winning on this site. Democrats have always been the big spenders and big taxers. I want to save money for video games. Still, please guys, go out and vote. I don't know the percentages but I know they are pretty low for 18 to around 25 year olds.
Heh that's why we're 7.4 TRILLION dollars in debt after 4 years of Bush. Funny, when Bill Clinton left office, we had a SURPLUS of about $240 BILLION.

Sling your propaganda elsewhere

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

[pfunkpearl]

Ya, democrats a not big spenders...they are usually in line with the "common man" while as bush put it in his speech to his rich investors "Some people call you the top 10% of wealth in the country, I call you my base".

[CaptainObviousXl]

Vote Bush! Please?
thats a great slogan for the republicans. They put a little puppy on the screen and say "Vote Bush! Please?"

[CaptainObviousXl]

I actually have a opinion on this one, so I'm going to vote. I'm flaberghasted that Kerry is winning on this site. Democrats have always been the big spenders and big taxers. I want to save money for video games. Still, please guys, go out and vote. I don't know the percentages but I know they are pretty low for 18 to around 25 year olds.
i though this was pretty funny to. He obviously doesnt know his politics.
Democrats- liberal, tax rich, tax cut poor
Republicans- conservative, tax poor, Tax cut poor


Also I hate how so many pro bush people always say that if your criticizing America you are being unpatriotic. You are not being unpatriotic, you are being vary patriotic. You are giving your opinion through the right of freedom of speech, trying to gain what is best for America.

oh and also you should take into consideration that we are not the only ones affected by our decisions. This is somthing that we always think. That is just a self centered characteristics we have burnt into our minds.

oh and im not going to move to france because for carring out my rights. Even though i cant vote i can still speak my mind.

[pfunkpearl]

I actually have a opinion on this one, so I'm going to vote. I'm flaberghasted that Kerry is winning on this site. Democrats have always been the big spenders and big taxers. I want to save money for video games. Still, please guys, go out and vote. I don't know the percentages but I know they are pretty low for 18 to around 25 year olds.
i though this was pretty funny to. He obviously doesnt know his politics.
Democrats- liberal, tax rich, tax cut poor
Republicans- conservative, tax poor, Tax cut poor


Also I hate how so many pro bush people always say that if your criticizing America you are being unpatriotic. You are not being unpatriotic, you are being vary patriotic. You are giving your opinion through the right of freedom of speech, trying to gain what is best for America.

oh and also you should take into consideration that we are not the only ones affected by our decisions. This is somthing that we always think. That is just a self centered characteristics we have burnt into our minds.

oh and im not going to move to france because for carring out my rights. Even though i cant vote i can still speak my mind.

Yes, I agree, Pro bush people are trying to turn this country into a dictatorship, by destroying kerry signs, scaring people about terrorism, calling them unpatriotic....um....do you realize we're at war trying to rebuild a country who has the exact same problems we're creating here at home? Wouldn't theat be ironic, spread democracy abroad but make a dictatorship at home....nice..

[CappyCobra]

Amen! Just because people do not agree with other people's Pro-Bush Ideals, they slap them with labels such as 'Liberal', 'unpatriotic' or even 'traitor. I'm sick of these people's 'Join or Die' attitiude. This is a Democracy not a Communist Regime last time I checked.

It's funny how Republicans label Democrats as 'Liberal' and I think it's only fair that they (Democrats) should label them (Republicans) 'Bigots' because of that kind of mentally.

[jdpimp]

This is a cool site where you can see the impact you can have about telling people to go out and vote. Check it out if you feel so inclined: http://vote.care2.com/impact.php?uid=82796e9ab92127dcabbeaaac789099d0

[Ruined]

I actually have a opinion on this one, so I'm going to vote. I'm flaberghasted that Kerry is winning on this site. Democrats have always been the big spenders and big taxers. I want to save money for video games. Still, please guys, go out and vote. I don't know the percentages but I know they are pretty low for 18 to around 25 year olds.
i though this was pretty funny to. He obviously doesnt know his politics.
Democrats- liberal, tax rich, tax cut poor
Republicans- conservative, tax poor, Tax cut poor

Next time you want to discuss this, you should mention that 80% of all federal income taxes are paid by the top 20% of income earners. Over 96% of all federal income taxes are paid by the top 50% of income earners - the poor pay little to no taxes! So cutting taxes for the "rich" makes the most sense, because they are actually paying significant taxes!

The original poster was also right, democrats are known for raising taxes and using the gained taxpayer money to foster their "programs" while republicans are known for cutting taxes. Democrats are also known for giving bonuses/handouts to the poor, perhaps that is what you were thinking when you were talking about tax cuts for the poor (can't really cut taxes when they pay little to none).

[WarrenGekko]

To me, both candidates are the same when it comes to the only topic that I will use when I vote for the president (Security). They have both said the same thing. So, it has been extremely difficult for me to choose one over the other. One day, I am leaning toward Bush because I know his track record. He will attack terrorists. No doubt. Since Kerry has not been president I don't know what he would have actually would have done.

However, the next day, I start leaning toward Kerry because Bush's perception in our country and around the world (Right or wrong) is that the US will not cooperate with anyone and will do whatever it wants. (Perception is reality). And I truly believe that ALL countries are responsible for the war on terror and should stop RELYING on the US to fix everything than bitch when they don't like something. We don't need Monday morning quarterback nations.

So, I am still on the fence

[MrBadExample]

I can't see the reasoning in anyone who votes for George Bush, period. In the last two months, we've been told by his own administration (Bremmer and Powell) that the war on Iraq was not only ill-justified, but driven with no exit strategy or plan to win the peace.

You don't take US troops -- sons, daughters, fathers of families -- and rush into war with bad intelligence, no post-war plan, and when it was apparent most of your key allies were obviously against you.

Sure, we haven't lost nearly as many troops in Iraq as we did in 'Nam, but make no mistake, the Iraqi war will be remembered in American history as the 'Nam of the new generation. What Bush has created in Iraq is nothing short of a foreign affairs nightmare -- a quagmire that's sure to last for at least another (as Bush's own generals have said) five to ten years.

Re: the draft -- though Bush denies he'll institute it, we essentially have a "back-door" draft going on right now. Who do you think goes to war as families get pinched by this ever-dismal economy. As Bush's so-called tax cuts continue to strain middle class Americans, who's kids do you think end up going to war? It's not the wealthiest 1% of America's parents whose sending kids over. Draft or no draft, the US will need FAR MORE troops to get the job done in Iraq -- if we don't increase troop presence, Iraq will take longer than five years, and that, my friends, is a quagmire we don't want to be in -- democrat or republican.

Fact is Bush, IMO, will offer "more of the same." He's pretty much said exactly that on his campaign trail. What has he said that makes you think he's going to change his policy? He continues to say Kerry can't get the support of allies -- no offense, Mr. President, but Mr. Kerry has a far better chance of getting any internation support than you ever will.

What I like about Kerry is that he understands not just warfare, but the consequences of war. What the heck are we taught all the time in English, anyways? Haven't we read the books by Hemingway, the poetry of Crane, and the warnings by Faulkner? War is always the "LAST RESORT," and whether you support Bush or not, you can't look me in the eye and say we went into Iraq as a "last resort" -- we never gave the weapons inspections team a fair chance, we never even bothered to look at the intelligence from UN nations -- Bush and his team sold us his war, and now, we're all paying the price -- all $200 billion of it -- in lives, resources, and waste.

I say waste because no matter how much we invest in Iraq, we've already ruined our chances of coming out as heroes. Over 90% of Iraqis have unfavorable opinions of the US, and just ask the rest of the Middle East how they feel about us -- and the percentatge is even higher.

Another Bush term will mean further separation from European allies -- many here in the US just don't understand that a global war on terror requires global allies. How can you fight a war that spans continents if everyone -- EVERYONE except Britain and (lmao) Poland are your allies? You can't -- you end up bearing an unimaginable burden, and you appear weak to the rest of the world -- to you allies and to your enemies.

What the Bush Administration did was as Kerry rightfully put it -- a colossal error in judgment. He has stretched our forces so thin we're pulling troops out of the DMZ, the zone that divides a democratic South Korea and the now nuclear-capable North Korea. We're trying to piece together the mess in Iraq while Iran continues to expand its uranium enriching process.

And while we continue to waste resources in Iraq, domestic spending will continue to decline, and our families will continue to struggle. Bush's tax cut plan is a joke -- if anyone cares to look at that plan closely, I can't believe anyone who's not making more than $200k is supporting it. It's tax cuts like that that are growing the gap between the haves and the have-nots -- and it's only going to get worse under another 4 yrs. of Bush.

Kerry understands that we need the rest of the world to end the Iraqi war. He understands that the greatest asset this country has is in its hard-working middle class -- and he rightfully shifts the tax cuts to help them. The rich are just fine as they are. Most importantly, he has the judgment and careful thinking of a true president. It's one thing to be defiant, it's another to be stubborn and "steadfast" in the face of truth. Bush just doesn't get it -- he thinks all is fine. Well, when you tell Russert in an interview that you rely on your cabinet members for "objective" news and that you never read the newspapers -- well, you're no president of the people -- you're a president beholden to your own agenda. In an ironic way, Bush is Sadaam of another sort -- just as Sadaam was often told his military was falsely strong and loyal, Bush seems to think his GOP powerhouse and the American people love him.

Well, he's in for a rude awakening when he wakes up on Nov. 3. I am confident the American will see past the GOP's scare tactics and spin of the truth -- just turn on your TV to PBS and watch the real news, heck, even turn on BBC -- the reality is not covered by MSNBC or ABC -- the real media is in the independent press.

Don't be fooled by Bush and his distortions. This election should not be as close as it is. All that proves is how well the GOP controls the media casual Americans watch everyday.

Vote on Nov. 2 for change. Vote Kerry-Edwards.

:applause:

[mykevermin]

I can't see the reasoning in anyone who votes for George Bush, period. In the last two months, we've been told by his own administration (Bremmer and Powell) that the war on Iraq was not only ill-justified, but driven with no exit strategy or plan to win the peace.

You don't take US troops -- sons, daughters, fathers of families -- and rush into war with bad intelligence, no post-war plan, and when it was apparent most of your key allies were obviously against you.

Sure, we haven't lost nearly as many troops in Iraq as we did in 'Nam, but make no mistake, the Iraqi war will be remembered in American history as the 'Nam of the new generation. What Bush has created in Iraq is nothing short of a foreign affairs nightmare -- a quagmire that's sure to last for at least another (as Bush's own generals have said) five to ten years.

Re: the draft -- though Bush denies he'll institute it, we essentially have a "back-door" draft going on right now. Who do you think goes to war as families get pinched by this ever-dismal economy. As Bush's so-called tax cuts continue to strain middle class Americans, who's kids do you think end up going to war? It's not the wealthiest 1% of America's parents whose sending kids over. Draft or no draft, the US will need FAR MORE troops to get the job done in Iraq -- if we don't increase troop presence, Iraq will take longer than five years, and that, my friends, is a quagmire we don't want to be in -- democrat or republican.

Fact is Bush, IMO, will offer "more of the same." He's pretty much said exactly that on his campaign trail. What has he said that makes you think he's going to change his policy? He continues to say Kerry can't get the support of allies -- no offense, Mr. President, but Mr. Kerry has a far better chance of getting any internation support than you ever will.

What I like about Kerry is that he understands not just warfare, but the consequences of war. What the heck are we taught all the time in English, anyways? Haven't we read the books by Hemingway, the poetry of Crane, and the warnings by Faulkner? War is always the "LAST RESORT," and whether you support Bush or not, you can't look me in the eye and say we went into Iraq as a "last resort" -- we never gave the weapons inspections team a fair chance, we never even bothered to look at the intelligence from UN nations -- Bush and his team sold us his war, and now, we're all paying the price -- all $200 billion of it -- in lives, resources, and waste.

I say waste because no matter how much we invest in Iraq, we've already ruined our chances of coming out as heroes. Over 90% of Iraqis have unfavorable opinions of the US, and just ask the rest of the Middle East how they feel about us -- and the percentatge is even higher.

Another Bush term will mean further separation from European allies -- many here in the US just don't understand that a global war on terror requires global allies. How can you fight a war that spans continents if everyone -- EVERYONE except Britain and (lmao) Poland are your allies? You can't -- you end up bearing an unimaginable burden, and you appear weak to the rest of the world -- to you allies and to your enemies.

What the Bush Administration did was as Kerry rightfully put it -- a colossal error in judgment. He has stretched our forces so thin we're pulling troops out of the DMZ, the zone that divides a democratic South Korea and the now nuclear-capable North Korea. We're trying to piece together the mess in Iraq while Iran continues to expand its uranium enriching process.

And while we continue to waste resources in Iraq, domestic spending will continue to decline, and our families will continue to struggle. Bush's tax cut plan is a joke -- if anyone cares to look at that plan closely, I can't believe anyone who's not making more than $200k is supporting it. It's tax cuts like that that are growing the gap between the haves and the have-nots -- and it's only going to get worse under another 4 yrs. of Bush.

Kerry understands that we need the rest of the world to end the Iraqi war. He understands that the greatest asset this country has is in its hard-working middle class -- and he rightfully shifts the tax cuts to help them. The rich are just fine as they are. Most importantly, he has the judgment and careful thinking of a true president. It's one thing to be defiant, it's another to be stubborn and "steadfast" in the face of truth. Bush just doesn't get it -- he thinks all is fine. Well, when you tell Russert in an interview that you rely on your cabinet members for "objective" news and that you never read the newspapers -- well, you're no president of the people -- you're a president beholden to your own agenda. In an ironic way, Bush is Sadaam of another sort -- just as Sadaam was often told his military was falsely strong and loyal, Bush seems to think his GOP powerhouse and the American people love him.

Well, he's in for a rude awakening when he wakes up on Nov. 3. I am confident the American will see past the GOP's scare tactics and spin of the truth -- just turn on your TV to PBS and watch the real news, heck, even turn on BBC -- the reality is not covered by MSNBC or ABC -- the real media is in the independent press.

Don't be fooled by Bush and his distortions. This election should not be as close as it is. All that proves is how well the GOP controls the media casual Americans watch everyday.

Vote on Nov. 2 for change. Vote Kerry-Edwards.

:applause:

On the real tip. If there was a smilyface with a tear going down one cheek (like the Native American in the 1970's anti-litter TV campaign), I'd SOOO use it right now.

The hardest thing for me to do this year has been to engage in discourse with pro-Bush people. Not because they won't talk (most will), and not because I won't talk civily (I can from time to time).

The way Americans are taught to engage in political discourse is abysmal. We are supposed to talk over eahc other, not listen to each other's comments; we are, in effect, supposed to mimic Tucker Carlson and Paul Begala (sp?) from Crossfire.

Civily discussing ideas is as dead as $50 MSRP to most of you all. The hardest part for me is restricting my gut instinct to behave like such a mongoloid, and instead respect others' opinions.

I did get to see Michael Moore speak on campus yesterday; he's very motivating, but he's no different than Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh - just an attack dog and spinmeister.

5 more days.

myke.

[pfunkpearl]

To me, both candidates are the same when it comes to the only topic that I will use when I vote for the president (Security). They have both said the same thing. So, it has been extremely difficult for me to choose one over the other. One day, I am leaning toward Bush because I know his track record. He will attack terrorists. No doubt. Since Kerry has not been president I don't know what he would have actually would have done.

However, the next day, I start leaning toward Kerry because Bush's perception in our country and around the world (Right or wrong) is that the US will not cooperate with anyone and will do whatever it wants. (Perception