How Significant is the Difference between 1080i to 1080p?

[hiccupleftovers]

Is it even noticeable on a 26"-32" tv or when does it actually become a factor?

I was just wondering about this for a couple of days since I've never really seen a comparison of the two.

[PrinnyOtaku]

Is it even noticeable on a 26"-32" tv or when does it actually become a factor?

I was just wondering about this for a couple of days since I've never really seen a comparison of the two.

You probably won't notice any difference if the TV is below 32".

And if it is under 32", you're most likely going to get a better image (gaming-wise) using the 720p option instead of 1080i.

[PenguinMaster]

And if it is under 32", you're most likely going to get a better image (gaming-wise) using the 720p option instead of 1080i.
That depends on the TV, a 720p native TV will display 720p better, and a 1080i native TV will display 1080i better.

How noticeable the difference between 1080i/720p and 1080p will also depend on how close you sit and how good your eyesight is.

[hiccupleftovers]

But regardless, how noticeable is it. Is the difference between 1080i/p something that simply stands out when comparing the two side by side, or is it something that just videophile/screenophiles (whatever they're called) would really be able to notice. Is even caring/worrying about the difference just being pedantic?

[btw1217]

That depends on the TV, a 720p native TV will display 720p better, and a 1080i native TV will display 1080i better.

How noticeable the difference between 1080i/720p and 1080p will also depend on how close you sit and how good your eyesight is.

I'm not quite sure how all this works, but do CRT HDTVs have a native resolution? I've got a 30" CRT and I use it on 720P mostly, but I really can't tell a difference between that and the 1080i.

[Graystone]

or is it something that just videophile/screenophiles (whatever they're called) would really be able to notice.

Yep, I've never seen a difference. Its like the whole HDMI vs Component video thing. The difference in quality is so small its unnoticeable.

[PenguinMaster]

I'm not quite sure how all this works, but do CRT HDTVs have a native resolution? I've got a 30" CRT and I use it on 720P mostly, but I really can't tell a difference between that and the 1080i.

CRTs don't have a native resolution, but most CRT HDTVs scale 720p to 1080i.

[javeryh]

Going from 1080i to 1080p is as significant of a jump as when black and white TVs went to color or silent movies added sound. Anyone who says otherwise is a retard and/or blind. :arrow:

[hiccupleftovers]

Going from 1080i to 1080p is as significant of a jump as when black and white TVs went to color or silent movies added sound. Anyone who says otherwise is a retard and/or blind. :arrow:

Great analogy, but now why and give some examples.

[javeryh]

Great analogy, but now why and give some examples.

I was kidding (I thought that's what the arrow was for? I need to brush up on my internet nerd talk). Anyway, it is slightly noticable on a large TV (42"+) but not so much on anything smaller. I don't have any examples but I don't think you lose much as far as the viewing experience goes with 1080i only. A 1080p picture is just a little crisper. That said, if I was in the market for a new HDTV I would definitely get a 1080p set because that (and 720p for broadcast) looks like it will be the standard for HD in the future.

[Demolition Man]

The difference between 1080i and 1080p is much like, say, adding a little pepper to an already spicy dish. Yeah that pepper might add a little more ZING to it but otherwise its still the same awesomeness as before.

[magiic]

according to my friend on his 32" the difference is like comparing Donkey Kong Country on the SNES to Killzone 2 on the ps3

[Demolition Man]

according to my friend on his 32" the difference is like comparing Donkey Kong Country on the SNES to Killzone 2 on the ps3

I'd love to see if your friend could tell the two apart in a test by having two 32 inch sets next to each other playing the SAME thing. 99% chance that he'll fail on telling 1080i apart from 1080p on a 32 inch.

[nyj1218]

isnt it 50% chance?

[Demolition Man]

isnt it 50% chance?

I say 99% since I'm very positive that he'll point at the 1080i source and go "well that's 1080p." ;)

[Plinko]

I was just shopping for televisions a month or two ago and was able to see televisions showing Planet Earth Blu-Ray in 1080i and 1080p right next to each other. Both televisions were 50", and I couldn't tell a difference unless you were standing about 1 1/2 feet away from the screen.

Store after store, the same thing happened every time. Didn't matter the brand of the television, didn't matter the show, didn't matter the size of the television--you literally couldn't see a difference unless you were sitting RIGHT in front of the screen. I'm convinced 1080p is a scam.

[Demolition Man]

Well of course you won't be able to "tell the difference" if the source material is 1080i. But when its an 1080p source then there is a small but noticeable difference.

Let me put it this way - if I were buying an set right now and the price difference is negligeable between an 1080i and 1080p set from the same company at the same size then I'd go for the 1080p set. But otherwise an 720p/1080i set is just fine enough for most people.

[guyver2077]

from what ive read you need a 40" tv or larger to see a noticeable difference

[WinnieThePujols]

I'd love to see if your friend could tell the two apart in a test by having two 32 inch sets next to each other playing the SAME thing. 99% chance that he'll fail on telling 1080i apart from 1080p on a 32 inch.

I agree. It's probably a psychological thing.

[magiic]

mostly my friend is just a massive ps3 fanboy. He is the kind of person who drops $200 on the monster cable HDMI cable because the sales rep says his playstation will be able to suck his dick if he uses a monster cable

[PrivatePixel]

The article "High Definition 1080p TV: Why You Should Be Concerned (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_14_1/feature-article-1080p-3-2007-part-1.html) on Secrets of Home Theater & High Fidelity was written back in March 2007 and offers a fairly complete and exhaustive look, as well as image comparisons between both resolutions (on page 2) between 1080i and 1080p. If you really want a better grasp on the terminology and the nuances of both, I recommend reading all five pages of the article.

There is no Cliff Notes / Dummies equivalent, but here are some excerpts that may be of interest to you (and anyone in the market considering a new display):
Flat panel TVs (LCD, Plasma) or any fixed pixel technology (such as DLP/LCD projectors etc) have a fixed display mode, their so called "native resolution". That is, they can only display the actual resolution of their panel (1024 x 768, 1366 x 768, and 1920 x 1080 being just a few examples). Everything else must be scaled and/or processed to that native format of the device.
NO flat panel or fixed pixel display devices "do interlaced". That is, although you can feed them an interlaced signal like 1080i60, one way or another it has to be converted, or "de-interlaced" into a progressive stream, and then scaled or mapped to the device's native resolution, whatever that may be.
The right way to process 1080i is to de-interlace it to 1080p (regardless of what the TV's native resolution is) using motion adaptive de-interlacing. This is a process which involves detecting which areas of the picture are moving and which ones are not, and then combining fields in the non-moving areas while interpolating the moving ones (filling in the spaces between the alternating lines with average, in between values) . If you have a 1080p display (which actually displays 1080p without cropping and re-scaling), you're done, because the result is a 1080p signal. If you have a TV of any other resolution, it's then just a matter of scaling the 1080p signal to whatever the native resolution of the device is.

In this HD Digital era we are either shooting 1080p24 digital or we are transferring film to 1080p24. There is no interlaced intermediary. When it comes time to convert it to 1080i60 for transmission or storage on disc, we are feeding a perfect digital p24 stream to the encoder which turns out a 1080i60 signal with, for all intents and purposes, a "perfect" 1080p24 buried within. All it takes is correct video processing at our end (the high definition DVD player and/or display) to realize it.
Some will argue that if you are seated far away and/or the screen is not enormous, one won't "appreciate" the full detail of 1920 x 1080 (as compared to lower resolution TVs). Well, if you look at a 27" 480i TV from 20 feet away, you could make the same argument. We could also make the argument that most people don't appreciate, or even know of, reasonably good video quality to begin with.
The point is, if you want to view the inherently 1080p24 content which is out there (and even native 1080i content) with maximum resolution (and we maintain that an enthusiast who sets up their viewing environment to get the most out of it can see the difference), you need a display capable of 1080p that keeps the signal in a 1080 line format from input to display surface.
In fact, most of us don't own a 1080p display for reasons of price and the move of the technology curve, first generation issues, etc. But, the point remains, if we narrow down the issue to a single parameter, that of resolution, aside from possible future displays that are integer multiples of 1920 x 1080 (serving to diminish pixel structure and improve the performance of scaled image output from lower resolution formats), 1080p is king, period.

[PenguinMaster]

according to my friend on his 32" the difference is like comparing Donkey Kong Country on the SNES to Killzone 2 on the ps3

As in you'll have much more fun playing in 1080i, but 1080p will look more graphically advanced?

I also wanted to comment that I just tried playing some 360 games in 1080p on my 21" monitor from a foot away and couldn't tell the difference between that and 720p, but the games weren't natively 1080p so that could have some effect.

[kmartbum001]

mostly my friend is just a massive ps3 fanboy. He is the kind of person who drops $200 on the monster cable HDMI cable because the sales rep says his playstation will be able to suck his dick if he uses a monster cable

smart friend

[ighosty]

u won't notice the difference with a tv that size. Like many have said you need something 40" or more. It is just the difference in weither each line refreshs, which happens with progressive, or wheither every other line refreshs, which is what happens with interlaced.

[guyver2077]

mostly my friend is just a massive ps3 fanboy. He is the kind of person who drops $200 on the monster cable HDMI cable because the sales rep says his playstation will be able to suck his dick if he uses a monster cable

i hate these type of idiots..i know one as well

[Punk_Raven]

Hmm, unless I'm an idiot and I didn't read PP's article correctly, I read in that article that 1080i content shouldn't show a difference on 1080p TVs, becuase the TVs de interlace it down to 1080p. Which means that on a 1080p TV you shoulnd't be able to see a difference. Though that was pretty confusing and I'm not exactly that big into HDTVs.

I think I"m wrong on that, and reading the article I found another quote for people who have LCD TVs that ocmpare 720p and 1080i.

So even though you might only have a 720 line device, that device needs to be able to handle 1080p (at least inside the display after performing de-interlacing in order to maximize its potential when viewing a 1080i source.

[starboyk]

Just to get my two cents out of the retard loop in my skull- I love old schoolin my tellys, as I don't really give a hoot about all the hi-def jazz. Yes, I own a 360. AND a PS3. I own a Sanyo 32", flat screen TV. Max res is 480i, and I have hooked up the best way possible. I also own a 27" samsung running at 1080i, and to tell you the truth, I think the Sanyo looks better. So, my question:

If I don't have a hi-def tv, does hi-def matter? I mean, the bioshock demo looked as good on the 480i clunker as it did on my slick samsung monitor, so, is hi-def only relevant when delving inside the realm of HDTVs? I know that sounds like a loopy question, but I just don't see the reason to get an HD set yet to replace the Sanyo.

TO Clarify - the sanyo is a full sized tube-tv style set with a flat screen, not a flat panel display.

[Punk_Raven]

Shit dude, that's what I've been wondering ever since I got my 360. gears of War just looks too beautiful, and I felt the same way about Bioshock. There is no way that HD can make that look better. Atleast not enough to warrant a high priced purchase such as an HD monitor or TV.

[Limegreen]

1080i and 1080p are both awesomeness

[PenguinMaster]

Just to get my two cents out of the retard loop in my skull- I love old schoolin my tellys, as I don't really give a hoot about all the hi-def jazz. Yes, I own a 360. AND a PS3. I own a Sanyo 32", flat screen TV. Max res is 480i, and I have hooked up the best way possible. I also own a 27" samsung running at 1080i, and to tell you the truth, I think the Sanyo looks better. So, my question:


There has to be something wrong with your 1080i TV or you didn't set the 360 to output in 1080i because otherwise there is no way a 480i set is going to look better.

[starboyk]

There has to be something wrong with your 1080i TV or you didn't set the 360 to output in 1080i because otherwise there is no way a 480i set is going to look better.

Ran it first through component, which looked like crap. Then I did VGA. Better. Dvi (using an ebay adapter) looked wrong, so, I went with VGA. There was a choice for 13xx something or other X 738, and 1920x1080. Tried both, and the latter looks better from afar, but not as good as on my regular set. It really seems that HD only matters if you have a tv that needs it, ie - plasmas, lcd, or other, imho.

[PenguinMaster]

Ran it first through component, which looked like crap. Then I did VGA. Better. Dvi (using an ebay adapter) looked wrong, so, I went with VGA. There was a choice for 13xx something or other X 738, and 1920x1080. Tried both, and the latter looks better from afar, but not as good as on my regular set. It really seems that HD only matters if you have a tv that needs it, ie - plasmas, lcd, or other, imho.

Is it a CRT HDTV? I wasn't aware any of them even supported VGA. I've compared my 360 on a CRT component 480i set and various computer monitors at 1280x720, 1280x768, 1360x768, and 1920x1080 and it always looked far better on the computer monitors. Even my Gamecube and Xbox at 480p look far better than 480i.

[Pookymeister]

ok well i just got a 1080p TV and HD-DVDs look alot better on there than my old 720p. SEXAH

[starboyk]

I think it just has a lot to do with native maximum resolution. If you're playing a game at 480p on set that goes up to 1080p, then it will look like crap. If you play a game at 480i on a monstrous tube tv that goes up to 480i, then I don't see the difference in performance (between that and the 1080p); I guess that's more of what I was trying to get at.

[javeryh]

ok well i just got a 1080p TV and HD-DVDs look alot better on there than my old 720p. SEXAH

Which TV did you buy?

[Pookymeister]

Which TV did you buy?


http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/2885/img0346rd9.th.jpg (http://img187.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0346rd9.jpg)

Sony SXRD A2020 60in

[Halo05]

I filed Digital Devil Saga 1 and 2 under my "D" section. Strangely enough, SMT Nocture is in the "S" section. I think Persona 3 is with the "P"s. Perhaps I should do some rearranging.

Oh, and you should go get Taito Legends volume 2, some more great olde games.

[javeryh]

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/2885/img0346rd9.th.jpg (http://img187.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0346rd9.jpg)

Sony SXRD A2020 60in

Fucking sweet.

I'm going to be buying a 50" 1080p plasma as soon as I can get it for $1,500 or less.

[Pookymeister]

Fucking sweet.

I'm going to be buying a 50" 1080p plasma as soon as I can get it for $1,500 or less.
Yea i got it for $1800 at CC(sorry speedy sympathisers) after 10% coupon and returning the free dvd player it came with - pretty sweet deal.

[starboyk]

I filed Digital Devil Saga 1 and 2 under my "D" section. Strangely enough, SMT Nocture is in the "S" section. I think Persona 3 is with the "P"s. Perhaps I should do some rearranging.

Oh, and you should go get Taito Legends volume 2, some more great olde games.

I know this is too concise, but stores are filing it under "Shin Megami Tensei", as will I ;p

[SilverPaw750]

I can't tell any difference.

[pop311]

Not to thread hack, but how big is the jump from 720p to 1080i?

[Pookymeister]

Not to thread hack, but how big is the jump from 720p to 1080i?

Its not really a jump. 720p is better for motion. Ie a stationary image will look better on 1080i but once things get moving 720p looks beter.
Most tvs that do 720p do 1080i AFAIK

[pop311]

Its not really a jump. 720p is better for motion. Ie a stationary image will look better on 1080i but once things get moving 720p looks beter.
Most tvs that do 720p do 1080i AFAIKoh, thanks. Also, why is 480p to 720p such a HUGE jump but 720p to 1080i/p not as huge?

[Pookymeister]

Take a look at this

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/6451/resolutionchartkr6.png

[TimPV3]

I'd love to see if your friend could tell the two apart in a test by having two 32 inch sets next to each other playing the SAME thing. 99% chance that he'll fail on telling 1080i apart from 1080p on a 32 inch.Uh huh, I'll wait until somebody with a PS3 or a 360 tells me that, not some guy with a Wii.

[Kyo]

Quick question - what affects the text size of Dead Rising? Is it the 1080 resolution or does it have something to do with progressive scan?


Don't mind the noobie here, I'm still kinda confused on the terminology (or rather what it all means) so I have some study to do.

[starboyk]

Pooky - thanks for the chart. I think that answers a ton of my questions, really. My configuration has the couch in my living room about fifteen feet from my 32" telly. makes sense, looking at that, why the Sanyo looks better.