40gb PS3 $399, no bc - 11/2, $499 80gb, limited bc, now. 56,877 new skus rumored

[BattleChicken]

Now as someone who liked my 360 and Halo and the games I played on it. I'm going all PS3 and only buying exclusives for my 360 now. I'll even wait for timed exclusives.

Why? Because my 360 all but died 1 day before Halo 3's release. The system went untouched for months, then I show my friend a demo and poof. Every game freezes in 3D scenes after 5-30 minutes, or at even more random intervals or events. It would have a ear shattering screeching noise over the speakers and overlay the frozen screen with block pixel noise. In desperation to join up with my friends in campaign co-op while it was still fresh and new, I used the towel trick, which basically gave me 1-4 hours of playtime before it froze. But by then they were already well past me.

PS3 may be more expensive and have fewer games right now, but you get what you pay for.

Yep. Mine 'died' the same day.. it started freezing in eternal sonata.. and after it froze It would even freeze on any attempt to load a game..

I had a warranty i got for free when I bought my 360 through Gamestop, though, so I got one of the new premiums with HDMI out. If i didn't have the warranty (and I didn't buy it this time.. $50 for one year??) I would have been livid.

The failure rates on the 360 are absurd.. but I like the games. The PS3 is rock solid (very few failures I'm aware of...?) but no games I currently care about... yet. Sucky dilema.

[Vanigan]

The thing is, we're going to see things really heat up in the games competition come 2008. PS3 does have some good stuff coming out this year though, just not enough, and nothing that really looks like a blockbuster.

[BattleChicken]

Damn.. this thread has become too rational and polite..

the PS3 is the best system ever. FOR TERRORISTS!

[dmaul1114]

The failure rates on the 360 are absurd.. but I like the games. The PS3 is rock solid (very few failures I'm aware of...?) but no games I currently care about... yet. Sucky dilema.

Very sucky dilemma. Bought my first HDTV in June, and all I've had to play on it so far is 480 Wii and PS2 stuff. :-(

X-box 360 is too expensive, and worsened by the failure rate.
PS3 is too expensive, and has no games that are must plays for me yet.

Really itching for some HD gaming goodness.....

[Halo05]

Damn.. this thread has become too rational and polite..

the PS3 is the best system ever. FOR TERRORISTS!

Seriously, if you buy a PS3, the terrorists have won.

I'm beginning to think I should start buying lottery tickets. I feel like the one person who bought an early (manufactured Dec 2005) Xbox 360 that hasn't had a single issue with it. I've thrown all the tough games at it, Dead Rising, Halo 3, Forza 2 and it's never so much as looked at me funny. It crashed a couple times during Oblivion before that got patched but since then, nada.

[FoxHoundADAM]

Seriously, if you buy a PS3, the terrorists have won.

I'm beginning to think I should start buying lottery tickets. I feel like the one person who bought an early (manufactured Dec 2005) Xbox 360 that hasn't had a single issue with it. I've thrown all the tough games at it, Dead Rising, Halo 3, Forza 2 and it's never so much as looked at me funny. It crashed a couple times during Oblivion before that got patched but since then, nada.You know terrorist grow PS3s in the fields of Iran and then sell them on the black market to fund their motives.

[dfo]

Make use of that HDTV, man! Sell your Wii now while it's still a hot commodity and buy a 360 or a PS3.

Doesn't really matter much which one you get unless you're in love with a particular MS or Sony franchise. Neither system is going anywhere and they'll have 90%+ the same games. Some will probably be a tad better on one system than the other (so far advantage to the 360 but that could change) but not so much that you'd notice unless you play them side-by-side. And certainly better than the Wii's GameCube+ graphics!


Very sucky dilemma. Bought my first HDTV in June, and all I've had to play on it so far is 480 Wii and PS2 stuff. :-(

X-box 360 is too expensive, and worsened by the failure rate.
PS3 is too expensive, and has no games that are must plays for me yet.

Really itching for some HD gaming goodness.....

[dmaul1114]

Make use of that HDTV, man! Sell your Wii now while it's still a hot commodity and buy a 360 or a PS3.

Doesn't really matter much which one you get unless you're in love with a particular MS or Sony franchise. Neither system is going anywhere and they'll have 90%+ the same games. Some will probably be a tad better on one system than the other (so far advantage to the 360 but that could change) but not so much that you'd notice unless you play them side-by-side. And certainly better than the Wii's GameCube+ graphics!

I was tempted, but while I don't like the Wii hardware, I'm a huge sucker for Nintendo's first party games. No way I can pass on Mario Galaxy or Super Smash Bros. If there's not much coming in 2008, I may ditch it the, as that would have covered Mario, Metroid and Zelda--and with Nintendo's track record, we'll be unlikely to get a sequel to any of those this gen (save maybe metroid since we got 2 on the GC).

If I was going to get one now, it would be the 360. I have a hard time imagining ever paying more than $300 for a console, but I might could swing $350 if some retailer gives away a game that I want this fall (not the MS bundle as I don't want Forza or Marvel: UA).

PS3 just isn't going to hit the $300-350 range anytime soon, and doesn't have a single exclusive game I want to play. Some exclusives coming down the road like FFXIII that I'd like, but I'd say the 360 has more that interest me with Crackdown, Gears, Halo, Mass Effect, Bioshock etc.

So I'll probably just hold onto the Wii, and hope Amazon has one of their bundles where they give away gears or something. I have $125 in GCs to there, so I could swing $349 for the HDMI w/heatsink model and a game pretty easily I think.

[v1et r1ce]

Here is a little something for you guys to think about..

http://www.bluraysavings.com/

One of the eligible PS3 models is CECHG01. That's the same SKU found on that FCC filing.

http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/6133_large_sonyps3fcclable.jpg

And there is suppose to be a huge announcement on Oct. 12 by Sony.

http://translate.google.com/translate?sourceid=navclient&hl=en&u=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2egamepro%2efr%2factualites%2f1 5361%2fsony%2dps3%2f

[Vanigan]

Whoah, good catch there nike. So they could extend the bluray deal, maybe add some more titles to the list and also announce the cheaper PS3 at the same time.

Sounds like that'd be enough to compete with MS's 360 bundles this holiday. And to do that, they'd better promote those games releasing around November 20th.

[dmaul1114]

Sounds like that'd be enough to compete with MS's 360 bundles this holiday. And to do that, they'd better promote those games releasing around November 20th.

Not for people who want the games in the 360 bundles, and don't care about blu ray movies.

Neither appeal to me as I'm in no hurry to jump into bluray or HD DVD, and I have no interst in Forza 2/Marvel UA.

[FoxHoundADAM]

Not for people who want the games in the 360 bundles, and don't care about blu ray movies.

Neither appeal to me as I'm in no hurry to jump into bluray or HD DVD, and I have no interst in Forza 2/Marvel UA.At the very least you could just reade in forza 2 and Marvel and put that towards a game you want.

[dmaul1114]

At the very least you could just reade in forza 2 and Marvel and put that towards a game you want.

You realize how low the trade in value will be on those once the bundle is out? They'll probably be like $2 a piece.

And probably not much better selling on eBay. Just not worth it. I'm sure Amazon or some other store will give away a better game or two with the console on their won this holiday season. They've had deals with Gears for free in the past, for example.

[propeller_head]

You realize how low the trade in value will be on those once the bundle is out? They'll probably be like $2 a piece.

And probably not much better selling on eBay. Just not worth it. I'm sure Amazon or some other store will give away a better game or two with the console on their won this holiday season. They've had deals with Gears for free in the past, for example.
gears will be 30 bucks this holiday season. forza 2 & Marvel will still be 60.

i dont know what you guys have against those games. they both got great scores.

forza 2
http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages4/932731.asp

marvel: ua
http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/932586.asp

[dmaul1114]

gears will be 30 bucks this holiday season. forza 2 & Marvel will still be 60.

i dont know what you guys have against those games. they both got great scores.

forza 2
http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages4/932731.asp

marvel: ua
http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/932586.asp

Reviews don't mean shit, only my opinion matters on what I enjoy.

I don't like racing games, especially sims. And played a good bit of Marvel: UA with my buddy and didn't really get into it. Not into comics, and don't like beat'em gameplay.

No way Marvel or Forza 2 stay $60 after the bundle, and regardless of the MSRP, the second hand market prices will plummet when the bundles out, as most people who are interested in them will either have got them in the bundle, or bought them long ago if they had a 360 prior.

[FoxHoundADAM]

Reviews don't mean shit, only my opinion matters on what I enjoy.

I don't like racing games, especially sims. And played a good bit of Marvel: UA with my buddy and didn't really get into it. Not into comics, and don't like beat'em gameplay.

No way Marvel or Forza 2 stay $60 after the bundle, and regardless of the MSRP, the second hand market prices will plummet when the bundles out, as most people who are interested in them will either have got them in the bundle, or bought them long ago if they had a 360 prior.LOL, you know were just trying to give you advice on this. but you keep making up lame excuses on why this isn't a good deal. I mean I don't want either game but free is free. Even if you only get $2 for each game at least that's $4 towards something you want. Although in realitly you'll get about $10 each. Just look at it like $20 off the game of your choice.

Sure game bundles suck and rarely save you money but in this case you arn't paying anything extra (unlike the 80 GIG PS3 bundle) so why not just get a 360 with the extra bonus at no cost?

Oh by the way I got $35 for Forza 2 when I traded it in at Game Rush last week.

[propeller_head]

Reviews don't mean shit, only my opinion matters on what I enjoy.

I don't like racing games, especially sims. And played a good bit of Marvel: UA with my buddy and didn't really get into it. Not into comics, and don't like beat'em gameplay.

No way Marvel or Forza 2 stay $60 after the bundle, and regardless of the MSRP, the second hand market prices will plummet when the bundles out, as most people who are interested in them will either have got them in the bundle, or bought them long ago if they had a 360 prior.
reviews do mean sheet;)

especially many reviews from many different sources averaged.

they mean that the majority of people will enjoy the games. if you're not one of them, that's perfectly alright & more than acceptable. but dont assume that everyone is just like you. :booty:;)

[dmaul1114]

reviews do mean sheet;)

especially many reviews from many different sources averaged.

they mean that the majority of people will enjoy the games. if you're not one of them, that's perfectly alright & more than acceptable. but dont assume that everyone is just like you. :booty:;)


I just meant reviews don't mean shit to me, in that I pay very little heed to them in deciding what to play.

And they especially don't mean shit to me when it's a genre I hate. I don't care if it has perfect 10's across the board, if it's a sim game, racing game, RTS game, or any other genre I absolutely loathe, then I'm not going to like it. :D

[dmaul1114]

LOL, you know were just trying to give you advice on this. but you keep making up lame excuses on why this isn't a good deal. I mean I don't want either game but free is free. Even if you only get $2 for each game at least that's $4 towards something you want. Although in realitly you'll get about $10 each. Just look at it like $20 off the game of your choice.


All I'm saying is it's not enough of a deal to get me to pay $350 for a console that is $50-100 more than I'm really willing to pay for a console to begin with.

So if it's $20 (which I'm not sure it will be when the bundle launches) It's still $329.00 for the 360, which is just more than I'm willing to pay.

There's only 4 or 5 games out, or out by the end of the year, that I really want to play. And given that most of them are still $60, I really have no problem waiting for another 360 price drop or two, both to save more on the console and for some of the games I want to drop to $30 or less. This is cheap ass gamer after all.

And I don't play online at all, so I don't care about getting behind in that aspect. Prefer to wait and buy consoles after 2 or 3 price drops when there's a lot of cheap games available. And this bundle deal isn't enough to get me to jump the gun early, that's all. If it was two games I wanted and would buy anyway, then it would be more tempting.

[Vanigan]

So in other words he just doesn't like any next-gen console. Which begs the question why he even bothers posting in forums dedicated to them.

[dmaul1114]

So in other words he just doesn't like any next-gen console. Which begs the question why he even bothers posting in forums dedicated to them.

I love games. Next gen just hasn't take off for me yet. My Wii has largely gathered dust.

360 has a decent library, 3 or 4 must plays for me, and a handful of "might play" games, but just not enough to shell our $350, which is a big hit to my budget at the moment with having to travel a lot currently.

PS3 isn't on the radar yet.

Besides, I thought I'd made it perfectly clear in this and the "getting worried" thread that about 95% of my posts were to annoy loser fanboys and entertain myself at work (fucking boss calling me in on a sunday! :bomb: ) ;)

[propeller_head]

I love games. Next gen just hasn't take off for me yet. My Wii has largely gathered dust.

360 has a decent library, 3 or 4 must plays for me, and a handful of "might play" games, but just not enough to shell our $350, which is a big hit to my budget at the moment with having to travel a lot currently.

PS3 isn't on the radar yet.

Besides, I thought I'd made it perfectly clear in this and the "getting worried" thread that about 95% of my posts were to annoy loser fanboys and entertain myself at work (fucking boss calling me in on a sunday! :bomb: ) ;)
you should tell him off. he'll admire you for it & consider it a sign of strength. make sure to wave your arms around in the air and talk loudly. :)

[postaboy]

I'm glad that I got my 20gig ps3 w/ 2 controllers for $280. I love you, craigslist.

[BattleChicken]

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070930-playstation-3-getting-holiday-makeover-399-ps3-rumor-has-legs.html

[Richard Longfellow]

I'm considering the 40 gig model, and I'm concerned about backwards compatibility. Has anyone done a thorough test of a-list PS2 titles on the new PS3 models? I don't expect every PS2 game to be compatible, but I would like to think that most of my favorites can be played.

[dallow]

It's here.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/02/sonys-399-ps3-confirmed-by-best-buy/

[mykevermin]

Looks like it has a Spiderman 3 pack-in. Sony really needs to get consumers to learn about and buy Blu-Ray movies, so taking a loss on one movie is a brilliant idea. Throw in a copy of the Spiderman 3 game while you're at it (nobody's buyin 'em, so it's not like there's something to lose there).

[Ugamer_X]

Looks like it has a Spiderman 3 pack-in. Sony really needs to get consumers to learn about and buy Blu-Ray movies, so taking a loss on one movie is a brilliant idea. Throw in a copy of the Spiderman 3 game while you're at it (nobody's buyin 'em, so it's not like there's something to lose there).
Yes, put packing the box with a composite cable negates the whole strategy. The movie is a perfect selection though, much better than the Talladega Nights that was included at launch. Plus, they won't be taking much of a loss given that the film already made a bajillion dollars and will probably make a bajillion more through DVD/BR sales.

Edit- and this- http://www.upcdatabase.com/item.asp?upc=711719800606

[dmaul1114]

Yes, put packing the box with a composite cable negates the whole strategy.

Yep. They need to remedy that with this bundle if they want the included Spider-man 3 Blu Ray to have much impact. Many people with HDTVs don't know shit about them and would just hook up the PS3 with the composite cable and assume that's as good as it gets.

[dallow]

Yes, put packing the box with a composite cable negates the whole strategy. The movie is a perfect selection though, much better than the Talladega Nights that was included at launch. Plus, they won't be taking much of a loss given that the film already made a bajillion dollars and will probably make a bajillion more through DVD/BR sales.

Edit- and this- http://www.upcdatabase.com/item.asp?upc=711719800606You know the Toshiba A2 HD DVD player (the most popular player next to the MS add on) only comes with composite cables.
Crazy huh?

But yeah, they should really include both.

[dmaul1114]

You know the Toshiba A2 HD DVD player (the most popular player next to the MS add on) only comes with composite cables.
Crazy huh?


Yep. Just mind boggling. The key to the formats is getting joe six pack to buy the player and be wowed by the picture quality and start buying all their movies from then on in that format when available.

Yet they bundle it with a composite cable, that joe six pack will think is all he needs, and then be dissapointed that the movies don't look better than DVDs.

[Ugamer_X]

You know the Toshiba A2 HD DVD player (the most popular player next to the MS add on) only comes with composite cables.
Crazy huh?

But yeah, they should really include both.
I'm not going to go into specifics, but that's an inaccurate comparison.

[dallow]

I'm not going to go into specifics, but that's an inaccurate comparison.Wow, how?

I'm not saying PS3 is excused.
I'm saying both really need to include both types of cables.

It's a bit sad they don't.

[Ugamer_X]

Wow, how?

I'm not saying PS3 is excused.
I'm saying both really need to include both types of cables.

It's a bit sad they don't.
I meant to say unfair.

Sony is trying to promote Blu-ray by including a disc with the PS3 that will show off its capabilities. However, they aren't including the cable necesary for John Q. Public to see the difference between BR and DVD. Keeping in mind that the PS3 is primarily purchased as a gaming system, there are almost no outside factors directing the buyer to purchase an HDMI or component cable.

Meanwhile, Toshiba is selling an HD-DVD player and strictly an HD-DVD player. Many buyers are already informed of the requirements of the player or will be informed before making their purchase. Granted, there will be a few stragglers who manage to pick one up without knowing what is needed in order for it to perform like they thought it would. However, these buyers are more likely to be inclined to educate themselves and rectify the problem after the fact since that is the sole purpose of the $300 machine they purchased. PS3 buyers will largely ignore their bonus Spiderman BR simply because there won't be anything special about it and go about playing their games.

Sorry if that's a bit unclear, but you should get the gist of it.

[dallow]

Yeah, I see what you mean.
I thought about that as well.

Hopefully though, they will include the cables, or at least a big freakin' sticker about how an HD connection is needed to see how better the BD of Spiderman 3 is.

[FatBoyInside]

Any more details on what will be EXCLUDED in the new PS3 40gb bundle? This is what I can gather so far...

For $399.99 you will receive:
- PS3 System w/ 40gb HDD
- 2 USB ports (downgraded from 4)
- Original black case finish (like the 20gb & 60gb version)
- 1 Regular SIXAXIS controller (rumble DS3 won't be out til Spring '08)
- Spiderman 3 movie on blu-ray
- 5 select blu-ray titles via mail-in rebate promo
- Guess-timated Release date on Oct.28, 2007


Any more details would be awesome. This is definitely a great holiday ramp-up by Sony.

[mykevermin]

Yes, put packing the box with a composite cable negates the whole strategy.

A valid point. At least put component in the box, y'know?

[Ugamer_X]

A valid point. At least put component in the box, y'know?
That's what I've been thinking. HDMI isn't necessary and including a component cable can't cost that much more that a composite cable.

[dallow]

A component cable basically doubles as a composite cable anyway.
Plugs are plugs.

[rodeojones903]

That's what I've been thinking. HDMI isn't necessary and including a component cable can't cost that much more that a composite cable.


HDMI cables are incredibly cheap to manufacture. Last I heard was between $2-3 for most.

[The Mana Knight]

That's what I've been thinking. HDMI isn't necessary and including a component cable can't cost that much more that a composite cable.The problem is, the Sony component cables aren't made to work with composite (due to lacking the video (yellow) adapter).

[dallow]

Never mind what I said about the 'it being the same cable'.

Forgot the PS uses the multi a/v out.

[Ugamer_X]

HDMI cables are incredibly cheap to manufacture. Last I heard was between $2-3 for most.
But they can make money on HDMI cables by selling them seperately. You can't pack in HDMI and then say, "hey you, buy this component cable." But you can pack in a component cable and sell the HDMI as the superior product.

[Ugamer_X]

The problem is, the Sony component cables aren't made to work with composite (due to lacking the video (yellow) adapter).
I'd imagine that creating a combo cable wouldn't be very hard. Unless you have some information that says otherwise.

[gunm]

The pack-in cable is a mixed message, isn't it?

I can only assume that the lack of HDMI is because Sony's research determined that there weren't enough potential buyers out there who actually owned a TV capable of HDMI. Bizarre, I know, considering the whole point of BluRay and the extra storage was for HD, but that's all I can come up with. With the amount Sony is losing on each console, the extra cost per console to add in the component dongle might be the straw that broke the camel's back?

Crazy talk? Sorry Sony, I tried...

[v1et r1ce]

Any more details on what will be EXCLUDED in the new PS3 40gb bundle? This is what I can gather so far...

For $399.99 you will receive:
- PS3 System w/ 40gb HDD
- 2 USB ports (downgraded from 4)
- Original black case finish (like the 20gb & 60gb version)
- 1 Regular SIXAXIS controller (rumble DS3 won't be out til Spring '08)
- Spiderman 3 movie on blu-ray
- 5 select blu-ray titles via mail-in rebate promo
- Guess-timated Release date on Oct.28, 2007


Any more details would be awesome. This is definitely a great holiday ramp-up by Sony.
The 60gb had the silver lining on it. I don't think they would take out BC so you can add that. BC without EE though..

EDIT -

Wow...possibility of TWO new console SKU's this month?

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/10/02/xbox-360-arcade-console-listed-on-retail-sites-for-oct-23/

I guess 40gb PS3 vs Xbox 360 Arcade..

[zewone]

The problem is, the Sony component cables aren't made to work with composite (due to lacking the video (yellow) adapter).
How hard would it be to include a cable like this? http://www.ztnetstore.com/images/xbox360-component-cable.jpg

[MetalGator]

I'm happy with my 60gb for 381 (Sony Style credit card deal), but I suppose $100 off the 40 gb might be the best deal out there

[pete5883]

I'm considering the 40 gig model, and I'm concerned about backwards compatibility. Has anyone done a thorough test of a-list PS2 titles on the new PS3 models? I don't expect every PS2 game to be compatible, but I would like to think that most of my favorites can be played.
There's a list. (http://www.us.playstation.com/Support/CompatibleStatus) You have to search for each game, though.

[doubledown]

A component cable basically doubles as a composite cable anyway.
Plugs are plugs.

Although, you would need THREE composite cables to equal a component cable.

[-Never4ever-]

It's still not confirmed FYI, although it's looking very likely.

This really should have came out on Launch day (with Heavenly Sword packed in ;) ), but later is better than never.

[propeller_head]

so is there any final word?

who's making it? Foxconn or Maintek?

(edit: meant Maintek not Mintek)

[dallow]

Although, you would need THREE composite cables to equal a component cable.Not in the order that I said my sentence.

And I already discredited myself as the PS has a multi out.

[BattleChicken]

Not in the order that I said my sentence.

And I already discredited myself as the PS has a multi out.

I heard some rumor in the Kotaku comments saying that some OTHER chip (other than the EE) is being removed.. meaning No backwards compatability.

Who knows.

[CaseyRyback]

Just because they remove the EE doesn't mean there isn't BC. It just isn't as good.

[propeller_head]

I heard some rumor in the Kotaku comments saying that some OTHER chip (other than the EE) is being removed.. meaning No backwards compatability.

Who knows.
that's unpossible. the cell is being used to emulate the EE on a per game basis. they would have to remove the cell for that to be true; and if they did, it would just become a paperweight.

[BattleChicken]

that's unpossible. the cell is being used to emulate the EE on a per game basis. they would have to remove the cell for that to be true; and if they did, it would just become a paperweight.
Yeah. Until the final hardware specs are released, we won't know for sure, but I tend to agree with you, that it is VERY unlikely.

Even if it doesn't have BC, I don't care much.. The very first gift I bought my wife when we were dating was a PS2, so she has an emotional attachment to it, so I won't be trading it in (aww).

[Thomas96]

Looking at the psychology of pricing... at 399, the ps3 is only 150 dollars more than the Wii when you do the math.. .however, looking at the prices, 249.99 vs 399.99 the ps3 may look like its almost 200 dollars more.. so if Sony were to make the price of the 40gb ... 349.99, then it almost devalues the Wii, and people who spend 249 may thing damn for only 100 dollars more, I can have something almost twice as good. Or give a 50 dollar rebate... and advertise at 349.99 w/ 50 dollar rebate, 5 free movies, and spiderman 3 pack in.

[mykevermin]

...and then file for bankruptcy! Genius!

They've sold 5 million consoles thus far. If it were $400 from the start, that's $200 less per console (roughly), which would net them $1 billion less in income for the year. So a $50 drop over 5 million consoles comes out to a quarter billion dollars less. Not the kind of money dropping two USB ports will salvage.

[Thomas96]

...and then file for bankruptcy! Genius!

They've sold 5 million consoles thus far. If it were $400 from the start, that's $200 less per console (roughly), which would net them $1 billion less in income for the year. So a $50 drop over 5 million consoles comes out to a quarter billion dollars less. Not the kind of money dropping two USB ports will salvage.


well you make up for it through the sales of blu ray movies, games, you may lose money now, but the possiblity of having blu ray competing only with dvd is definitely going to make up the loss of dropping the system 50 extra dollars. Plus 399 isn't confirmed... so it could very well be 349. At that price you have a shot of out selling the wii...

[Dr Mario Kart]

If a $349 PS3 has a chance to outsell the Wii, you'd think the 360 would be able to make a little headway in that as well.

[dmaul1114]

True, but they're going to have to be willing to lose a lot of money on consoles if they want to challenge remotely seriously for 1st place.

$400 for now is probably enough to challenge MS more seriously for 2nd place now though, and that may well be their goal if they can't cut price enough/bring enough casuals, to really compete with the Wii phenomenon.

[dmaul1114]

If a $349 PS3 has a chance to outsell the Wii, you'd think the 360 would be able to make a little headway in that as well.

Very true.

The Wii is just an odd phenomenon. Selling well as it's bringing in casuals and non-gamers with Wii Sports etc.

I don't think price would help them catch the Wii all that much. A Soccer mom wanting to play Wii Sports isn't going to buy a PS3 or 360 at any price.

Lower price would help narrow the gap as it would get more gamers like me who are sitting out the 360/PS3 still because of price to buy. But I doubt it would shift the tide too much to go to $349.

It would help them compete more, but it seems that despite obvious overlap among gamers, the Wii is really getting a pretty different market that the PS3/360.

[FoxHoundADAM]

I can't believe, nor do I know how they wouldn't support PS2/PS1 emultion in the PS3.

I know I wouldn't buy a PS3 without eve emulation.

[Ugamer_X]

that's unpossible. the cell is being used to emulate the EE on a per game basis. they would have to remove the cell for that to be true; and if they did, it would just become a paperweight.
Actually, I'm pretty sure the graphics sysnthesizer is the other chip we're talking about that's still included in all PS3s. Removing it would kill BC, I'd be surprised if they did.

[FatBoyInside]

Slight update on the domestic release...

For $399.99 you will receive:
- PS3 System w/ 40gb HDD
- 2 USB ports (downgraded from 4)
- No flash card slot reader
- Original black casing finish (like the 20gb version)
- 1 Regular SIXAXIS controller (rumble DS3 won't be out til Spring '08)
- Spiderman 3 movie on blu-ray
- 5 select blu-ray titles via mail-in promotion
- Guess-timated arrival date: Oct.28, 2007 or Oct.30, 2007 (Spiderman 3 movie retail release schedule)


More details will be forthcoming, I hope. Time to save my pennies.

[FoxHoundADAM]

Slight update on the domestic release...

For $399.99 you will receive:
- PS3 System w/ 40gb HDD
- 2 USB ports (downgraded from 4)
- No flash card slot reader
- Original black casing finish (like the 20gb version)
- 1 Regular SIXAXIS controller (rumble DS3 won't be out til Spring '08)
- Spiderman 3 movie on blu-ray
- 5 select blu-ray titles via mail-in promotion
- Guess-timated arrival date: Oct.28, 2007 or Oct.30, 2007 (Spiderman 3 movie retail release schedule)


More details will be forthcoming, I hope. Time to save my pennies."Black casing finish" bummer, I'm a sucker for that chrome trim.

[mykevermin]

Slight update on the domestic release...

For $399.99 you will receive:
- PS3 System w/ 40gb HDD
- 2 USB ports (downgraded from 4)
- No flash card slot reader
- Original black casing finish (like the 20gb version)
- 1 Regular SIXAXIS controller (rumble DS3 won't be out til Spring '08)
- Spiderman 3 movie on blu-ray
- 5 select blu-ray titles via mail-in promotion
- Guess-timated arrival date: Oct.28, 2007 or Oct.30, 2007 (Spiderman 3 movie retail release schedule)


More details will be forthcoming, I hope. Time to save my pennies.

What's your source on that?

[Apossum]

okay. If this one comes out, Sony better fucking stick with it, none of this limited time bullshit, no 43gb system in January '08, no nothing, just a SKU that lasts until the end of this gen.

Because this is a good price for a used system to descend from around the time MGS4 comes out...

[KwanzaaTimmy]

I'm glad they're getting down to the magic next-gen price point of 400 dollars. It looks like we're getting some pretty clutch releases as well later this year (heck, even this month Folklore and R&C are out).

I agree with Apossum, the 40 should become the lead SKU for Sony going forward. 40gigs is more than enough space, even with blu-ray games installing files on them or for PSN stuff.

Sony tried going with the Bently of video games for the past year, and it hasn't won them any acclaim-- getting cheaper but still retaining a majority of the functionality will more than likely give ps3 the push it needs to really start in the 2008 year.

since they've been doing this "new SKU" every three months, its probably wishful thinking that the 40 is here to stay, however, they'd be smart to keep at least some sort of SKU at 400.

[buffdrew84]

i was planning on picking a 60 gig this holiday season. the 40 would be perfect at 400. any word on an official announcement? Or could this end up being a hoax?

[propeller_head]

i was planning on picking a 60 gig this holiday season. the 40 would be perfect at 400. any word on an official announcement? Or could this end up being a hoax? i have it on good authority the 40GB will be made out of cardboard

and it should arrive Oct 19

its already for sale in italy, if you happen to live there.

[zerolens]

Doesn't the 360 use all software emulation for backwards compatibility? Wouldn't be off the wall for them to pull out the graphics synthesizer (or whatever it's called) out of the 40GB but keep it in the 80GB for awhile. Rumors have the wifi still being in the 40GB so there has to be something to make up the difference. (of course it could be opposite and wifi could be pulled instead).

This would be good for sony in the long run, they won't have to fall back on the graphics synthesizer and have all software emulation on the PS4. Those who complain, you have options. PS2 is still in production unlike the xbox. You have the 20GB and 60GB versions as options. And even the 80GB for those that think it's good enough.

If you look at the compatibility list, the 80GB is decent but nowhere near as good as the 60GB backwards compatibility. If BC is high priority, then 60GB is the way to go. Unlike Europe at least NA buyers have the really good backwards compatibility option, suck it up and pay the $100 extra if it's top priority for you. If Sony can get rid of some unnecessary hardware in the long run and do all software they'll do it.

[propeller_head]

i really doubt the removal of the EE was for cost savings. it only cost a few dollars to make. imo it was designed to elicit marketing's classic Limited Freedom principle. where people feel their options are being limited they're more likely to make implusive purchases, like buying a 60GB now for more than they otherwise would have wanted to spend; instead of waiting which they would have rather done had their freedom of choice not been limited by the stop of production & concurrently supply (or illusion of lack of).

[mykevermin]

I can't help but think that taking out BC entirely (and I'm skeptical that it's even possible for that to be the case) would be the DUMBEST move (in a long, historied line of dumb moves) they could make. Consumers may bicker about USB/card readers/wifi until they're blue in the face, however taking out the ability to play PS1 and PS2 games would, IMO, absoluter murder anyone's desire to pick one up.

Perhaps I'm wrong?

[Identity Fraud]

It has software emulation like the 360. The lack of hardware BC didn't stop the 360 from flying off the shelves and into coffins now did it?

[The Mana Knight]

i really doubt the removal of the EE was for cost savings. it only cost a few dollars to make. imo it was designed to elicit marketing's classic Limited Freedom principle. where people feel their options are being limited they're more likely to make implusive purchases, like buying a 60GB now for more than they otherwise would have wanted to spend; instead of waiting which they would have rather done had their freedom of choice not been limited by the stop of production & concurrently supply (or illusion of lack of).Oh it was. The only reason Sony did it initially was to get a high number of BC games up right away. The EE alone costs around $25-$30 while the GS is $20-$25. That's quite a cut when you remove one or both, especially after you make 1 million consoles. It's not just the chips, but the components needed for the chips are removed.

[zerolens]

I can't help but think that taking out BC entirely (and I'm skeptical that it's even possible for that to be the case) would be the DUMBEST move (in a long, historied line of dumb moves) they could make. Consumers may bicker about USB/card readers/wifi until they're blue in the face, however taking out the ability to play PS1 and PS2 games would, IMO, absoluter murder anyone's desire to pick one up.

Perhaps I'm wrong?

Why don't you think there would be an all software solution right away or in the future? Again isn't this what the 360 is doing?

[mykevermin]

It's a combination of giving credence to what is nothing more than a rumor, and also Sony's penchant for boneheaded decisions.

[KwanzaaTimmy]

Reading up on this on GAF, a lot of people are convinced that BC will NOT be included in the 400 dollar version. Its just speculation at this point for sure (as is the entire idea).

However, at present the "software" emulation isn't even entirely software at this point. While software covers the Emotion Engine part of the ps2, there is still the graphics synthesizer in even the "downgraded" ps3s. The reason that software isn't total at least from what some people are saying has to do with the difference in the Ram timings as well as hard-coded instructions on the chip itself.

Smartly, many believe that they dropped the GS as well-- and if thats the case then the BC as it stands now will not work at all.

Now, if this is all true (which as far as the internets go, I can't tell), I'd be another to step right beside Myke. Backwards compatibility is EXTREMELY important to the Playstation brand, and was one of the few things (even with the hybrid BC of newer models) that Sony has not messed up in the least.

It sets a dangerous precedent, I fully expect to play my ps3 games on my ps5, should the brand live that long--- removing it now removes one of the greatest strengths of the ps3 (a good cheap library of wonderful titles-- even if they are from last gen).

..or...

This will wind up being hogwash and BC is retained, or that the 400 dollar SKU winds up being something different all together.

[shaunLEGEND]

I wish there was some kind of study to show how important backwards compatibility is to the majority of gamers.

It's very important to me because I love playing ps2 games upscaled and HD but I realize I'm a hardcore gamer and probably very different than Joe Casual (no offense to anyone named Joe).

It's like with the Wii, I wonder how much of the userbase actually uses it to play gamecube games.

[alongx]

I would like to see this happen, but mostly because it would put pressure on MS to lower their prices as well.

[Jay]

I would like to see this happen, but mostly because it would put pressure on MS to lower their prices as well.

You gotta love competition,the 360 will have counter the 399 ps3 somehow.I just see the 399 unit selling well for sony because of its affordable price and taking some of the 360s thunder away.

[zerolens]

The point is if backwards compatibility is important to you then the 60GB is available for this person. If you can't see yourself buying a PS3 without good BC then cough up $500 now (or buy a used 60GB later on) or simply give up on the PS3 and concentrate on what the 360 offers.

Take a good look at the 60GB BC list compared to the 80GB. 60GB is definetly superior. It's going to take a long time (if ever) for the 80GB to equal the 60GB, same goes for 40GB regardless if the chip is in there or not.

[Thomas96]

I can't help but think that taking out BC entirely (and I'm skeptical that it's even possible for that to be the case) would be the DUMBEST move (in a long, historied line of dumb moves) they could make. Consumers may bicker about USB/card readers/wifi until they're blue in the face, however taking out the ability to play PS1 and PS2 games would, IMO, absoluter murder anyone's desire to pick one up.

Perhaps I'm wrong?


BC is one of the main allures in the system, plus they've spent time and money trying to develop an emulation system... which they did, and now in a new system they take it out. If they did take out the emulation software, maybe they'll make it where you can download it from PSN as an update to that particular model.... kinda how they added support for the ps2 harddrive.

[pete5883]

I would like to see this happen, but mostly because it would put pressure on MS to lower their prices as well.
Sony's cheapest system would be $400, vs. MS's cheapest system at $280. I don't see that happening this soon after the last price drop.

[The Mana Knight]

Reading up on this on GAF, a lot of people are convinced that BC will NOT be included in the 400 dollar version. Its just speculation at this point for sure (as is the entire idea).

However, at present the "software" emulation isn't even entirely software at this point. While software covers the Emotion Engine part of the ps2, there is still the graphics synthesizer in even the "downgraded" ps3s. The reason that software isn't total at least from what some people are saying has to do with the difference in the Ram timings as well as hard-coded instructions on the chip itself.

Smartly, many believe that they dropped the GS as well-- and if thats the case then the BC as it stands now will not work at all.

Now, if this is all true (which as far as the internets go, I can't tell), I'd be another to step right beside Myke. Backwards compatibility is EXTREMELY important to the Playstation brand, and was one of the few things (even with the hybrid BC of newer models) that Sony has not messed up in the least.

It sets a dangerous precedent, I fully expect to play my ps3 games on my ps5, should the brand live that long--- removing it now removes one of the greatest strengths of the ps3 (a good cheap library of wonderful titles-- even if they are from last gen).

..or...

This will wind up being hogwash and BC is retained, or that the 400 dollar SKU winds up being something different all together.The difference is, Kutaragi is the one who pioneered BC in PlayStation platforms, and he is no longer with them.

The situation is, people want a cheaper PS3 and Sony has to make cuts somewhere. Blu-ray disc diodes have become much cheaper (they are like $5-$8 now). Some problems are:
-Cell and RSX are quite expensive to manufacturer (it was being said the RSX alone costs over $100).
-HDD prices tend to have a high initial price, but don't increase much when increasing the size).
-HDMI for DVD upscaling (due to the HDCP standards), so they can't exactly remove it (because you can add HDMI so easily). Not sure how much an HDMI port costs, but I'm guessing at least $10.
-The EE and GS cost around $50 together. With the PS2, Sony was able to completely software emulate the PS1 games after a while, so no PS1 chip was needed for BC (I could be wrong though). Cost of the EE/GS isn't going down much anymore, so if Sony were to continue having BC, it would add $25-$50 to every console in the future, keeping it that much more expensive always.
-WiFi costs around $25-$30.

Sony can easily remove card readers (saves around $10-$15). They can remove a few USB ports. But from there, what else can they remove to keep costs down. All the things I mentioned alone are going to cost at least $500 to produce and will probably never get cheaper than $300. Sony has to get to mass market price one day, so what can they do?

-There's nothing they can do about blu-ray, Cell/RSX, and other than continuing to shrink its size reducing cost. But they will never get insanely cheap (blu-ray will eventually cost almost the same as DVD though).
-Sony removing the HDD standard would instantly stop developers from utilizing the HDD. MS has already run into trouble with the Core 360.
-Removing HDMI would be bad because you can't upgrade to it and it's needed for DVD upscaling and FULL HD (according to NBA 08).

So it basically comes down to WiFi and GS/EE chips.

There are some who say, why would I buy a PS3 when I already have a PS2 to play PS2 games? Many people in America prefer to have specilized devices for certain things (people rather buy a blu-ray player to watch movies. Stereo system to listen to music, etc.). I'm not saying everyone is like this, but I've come across many in forums and reality who say this. With a PS3 console only able to play PS3 games, those who already own a PS2 (who only want a PS3 for PS3 games) have the option and can save $100. Those who want BC can pay the extra $100 for the console with BC, if it's really important to them (I'm expecting another $100 price drop next year). There are many casuals who just want to play Madden, NBA Live, or some sports game each year, and doesn't care to go back to their previous console. I also remember many people stating, they paid $500-$600 for their PS3, and don't want to play PS1/PS2 games on it, they want to play actual PS3 games to get their moneys worth. Okay, so Sony might release a console with no BC, and people are complaining. Would people rather see a $399 console or a $439 console?? Many just don't want to see a price over $400. The Wii may be severely underpowered, but people see the cheaper price, which makes them want it. There are those who want PS3 for blu-ray mostly, so lacking the BC isn't a bad thing. Well, the new PS3 would play PS1 games though (PS2 games need the GS. PS1 games don't need any of that).

As for me, BC is important, which is why I own a 20GB PS3. I may buy an 80GB PS3, but it would be used for PS3 games only (while my 20GB would be used for PS1/PS2 games). I am not for taking away PS2 games being played on PS3, but at the same time, I want Sony to do whatever it takes to bring a cheaper PS3 to the market, even if they have to gimp the console a bit.

Sony could remove WiFi, but the problem is upgrading a console without WiFi (some may have better luck than me, but I can't find a wireless bridge/gaming adapter for cheap. They seem to be $50-$100). One reason I'm regretting my 20GB PS3 is because of that.
BC is one of the main allures in the system, plus they've spent time and money trying to develop an emulation system... which they did, and now in a new system they take it out. If they did take out the emulation software, maybe they'll make it where you can download it from PSN as an update to that particular model.... kinda how they added support for the ps2 harddrive.
They might.

One big advantage MS has is they run their BC games off of a driver or something. It sucks because they have to emulate every game on its own (and it can take time), but it's nice because MS doesn't have to pay for a graphics/CPU of the original Xbox inside the console (which would make the 360 console itself costs more to make, and more difficult to bring the cost down). Sony might release some BC games the same way, but due to the massive catalog of PS2 games, I'd expect it to be 10-20% BC. If Sony were to release a console without the GS/EE, I'd emulate each game, but I'd only do the Greatest Hits or games that sold really well.

[hufferstl]

I totally agree. I 'm hoping for a $299 premium and a $229 core(arcade).

At $399, PS3 is definitely going to take off. Since Microsoft doesn't consider the Wii a real competitor, the PS3 finally selling will hopefully force its hand and drop that price.


I would like to see this happen, but mostly because it would put pressure on MS to lower their prices as well.

[dmaul1114]

Sony's cheapest system would be $400, vs. MS's cheapest system at $280. I don't see that happening this soon after the last price drop.


MS is rolling out the 65NM cpus which will cut cost for them a good bit (more cpu chips per sheet in the factory lowers production costs) so I could see it.

Probably not though. They'll probably think the Forza 2/Marvel bundle is enough to combat a $400 PS3. They're probably right, though I'll buy neither at those prices.

[Ugamer_X]

You know, something felt wrong about this whole business of seperate EE and GS chips. Then I remembered that Sony combined the chips over 3 years ago onto a single chip. I'm pretty sure that up until this point, whenver you hear Emotion Engine, it includes the graphics synthesizer by default. I don't know where all this talk of seperate chips comes from and I'd like to see a clear answer on this. Every site I checked mentioned that the European launch units had both the GS and EE removed as they were a single unit.

Not only that, does the Mana Knight pull numbers out of his ass? The estimates I saw for the EE+GS priced it at around $27. Don't make shit up and confuse us in order to try and sound intelligent.

[Apossum]

If BC is out of the PS3, the system is dead to me.

and it'll effectively cut off the ridiculously large base of PS2 users out there, which is, lets face it, their greatest advantage at this point in time.

[mykevermin]

Not only that, does the Mana Knight pull numbers out of his ass?

You bet. If I had a nickel for every nonsourced claim of his, I could buy everyone on this site a PS3, and have money left over for a nice Lexus for myself.

I'm sick to my stomach of his "the reason Sony isn't releasing PSX games to download on the PSN except once every 6,000 years (n.b.: I made that number up ;)) is because the PSX games aren't selling" claim every time I complain about Sony giving up so fuckin' easily on a business model that could make the VC look like a bitch. Because, of course, it's logically absurd, and he has nothing to prove or verify with it.

I would say "take everything he says with a grain of salt," but that's just not true. Don't believe a damn thing he says about the PS3. Period.

[propeller_head]

You bet. If I had a nickel for every nonsourced claim of his, I could buy everyone on this site a PS3, and have money left over for a nice Lexus for myself.

I'm sick to my stomach of his "the reason Sony isn't releasing PSX games to download on the PSN except once every 6,000 years (n.b.: I made that number up ;)) is because the PSX games aren't selling" claim every time I complain about Sony giving up so fuckin' easily on a business model that could make the VC look like a bitch. Because, of course, it's logically absurd, and he has nothing to prove or verify with it.

I would say "take everything he says with a grain of salt," but that's just not true. Don't believe a damn thing he says about the PS3. Period.
no business model could make the VC look like a "bitch".

VC has old school carts. PSX just doesnt have the same quality library than all the old school systems combined. PSX was great for its time, but it was great because it was cutting edge (which it isnt even remotely close to anymore). the games dont have the same lasting allure as the true old school games, imho.;)

[mykevermin]

Maybe. The VC has *variety* over PSX, for sure. The PSX catalog is still amazing, even if opinions vary (and they will vary all over creation).

The pricing structure of the PSN for PSX games ($6 a pop before fucking Castlevania) was what set PSN apart. VC is wonderful and all, but very expensive.

Bitch was perhaps an overstatement of sorts; nevertheless, failing to utilize the great library the PSX has kills off a potential source of income, and also help in maintaining interest in the console. I also hoped that it would assist in lowering digital content on the other two consoles if it caught on.

[benjamouth]

I hope this is just a rumour thats gotten out of hand, I would've got that 40 gig version.

Every time I'm about to get a PS3, Sony manages to pull something out of the bag to stop me.

This could all just be rumour, I have real trouble believing Sony would pull BC from any of it's SKU's.

[elwood731]

Killing decent BC in the PS line is a huge mistake in my mind. The difference between the Xbox and PS lines when it comes to BC is that Sony has made a major focus of their systems over the years. Essentially, you have three generations of games, literally thousands, you can play on one box. That's an incredible value. The Wii's VC is nice, but it requires you to rebuy all the games, or at least at a set price (often above a used price). Of course, there are always the rare games that get released and are a much better value virtually than in a hard copy, but still, they are the exception usually rather than the norm.

Sony is cutting off their leg to save their arm if they do this. They will kill future interest for many PS2 owners who no longer have any reason to remain loyal to a specific system.

[Thomas96]

Well if the 399 model doesn't have BC, I'd be greatly surprised, however, I guess Sony wants people to pay 499 regadless.. so someone who wants BC, buys the 399 40gb console, and then can pay 99 dollars for the PS2 console... If the PS3 comes out w/o BC, then it needs to be a little cheaper than 399. However, Sony might be more ready than we think to transition consumers and DEVs fro the PS2 to PS3. Maybe this is Sony's way of killing of the PS2.. [if this rumor is even true in the first place]

[Apossum]

Well if the 399 model doesn't have BC, I'd be greatly surprised, however, I guess Sony wants people to pay 499 regadless.. so someone who wants BC, buys the 399 40gb console, and then can pay 99 dollars for the PS2 console... If the PS3 comes out w/o BC, then it needs to be a little cheaper than 399. However, Sony might be more ready than we think to transition consumers and DEVs fro the PS2 to PS3. Maybe this is Sony's way of killing of the PS2.. [if this rumor is even true in the first place]


if they are trying to "kill" the PS2, then Sony in general is dead to me-- that would pretty much prove that their management doesn't know what the fuck to do with the PS3.

btw, a PS2 is currently $130. and Sony doesn't transition people from it, the consumers and devs decide that. The only power Sony has over the situation is to make the PS3 more attractive to woo people from the PS2. Leaving in upscaled BC is a big part of that.

[elmyra]

Sony's cheapest system would be $400, vs. MS's cheapest system at $280. I don't see that happening this soon after the last price drop.
It was already predicted a couple of months ago. Below is a post CheapyD made quoting someone at NeoGaf; that person was right about the first price drop, so there's good reason to believe that they could be right about the second one, too.

artredis1980 from NeoGaf says

have it coming from a reliable source that CURRENTLY

The Core will drop to 279
The Premium will drop to 349
The Elite will drop to 449

This will clear out the inventory of the Premium which is the most manufactured 360 and the most sold as they know Premium will sell the most until the demand for Elites pick up in 2008. Elites and Cores have relatively the same manufacturing percentage: low at the moment until FALL this year.

When the 65 nm processor falcons are introduced across all SKUs, the holiday season, a month or so after Halo 3 will see the core drop to $249, The Premium will drop to $299 and the Elite will drop to $399

The Core, Premium and Elite Falcons will have a redesigned motherboard which includes HDMI across all SKUs, a quieter DVD Drive and the falcons will STILL have an extra fan heatsink as Microsoft is not prepared to take anymore risks.

The Falcon will reduce the cost to manufacture the Xbox 360 CPU and GPU by ~40-50% but Microsoft will incure additional costs on the new fans and HDMI across all SKUs. Still at the 249,299 and 399 price, Microsoft will expect a profit from the console by early 2008 when the Q4 results are announced.


EDIT: Clearing out inventory of 90nm so they mostly have 65nm on shelves this holiday season
Back on topic, I'd be surprised to see them kill BC on the new PS3, and I agree with everyone who thinks it'd be a boneheaded move. If they do, I'll definitely want to get an older one with EE when/if I'm ready for a PS3.

[dmaul1114]

Maybe. The VC has *variety* over PSX, for sure. The PSX catalog is still amazing, even if opinions vary (and they will vary all over creation).


The problem for me is that 1st gen 3D games (PSX and N64) look so shitty today for the most part that I can't stand to replay very many of them. Same with older 2D games (NES, SMS, Atari etc.).

2nd and 3rd gen stuff holds up well. I still play a lot of SNES/Genesis etc, and GC, X-box, PS2 etc. all hold up well and probably will further down the line.

I just don't have much urge to pay to play the blurry ass N64 games, or jaggy as PSX games with a few more polished games (and some 2D games) as exceptions.

[dmaul1114]

It was already predicted a couple of months ago. Below is a post CheapyD made quoting someone at NeoGaf; that person was right about the first price drop, so there's good reason to believe that they could be right about the second one, too.

Yep, I'm still hoping that pans out. I'd be all over a premium for $300, and the sooner MS drops it, the less chance they have of Sony doing something to make me go with a PS3 instead.

Both aren't an option, as I already have a Wii and I just don't play games enough to justify owning all 3 this system. I'd never be able to play all the good games on 3 systems, probably won't even keep up with them on 2. Just need some HD gaming on my new set, and some good sports and FPS games which the Wii will always lack.

[zewone]

I could care less if the 40GB has BC.

I would pick it up (which if rumors turn out be true, it will be the one I end up buying) just to play PS3 and Blu-Ray titles.

[Thomas96]

if they are trying to "kill" the PS2, then Sony in general is dead to me-- that would pretty much prove that their management doesn't know what the fuck to do with the PS3.

btw, a PS2 is currently $130. and Sony doesn't transition people from it, the consumers and devs decide that. The only power Sony has over the situation is to make the PS3 more attractive to woo people from the PS2. Leaving in upscaled BC is a big part of that.

Yeah its a big part of that, and Sony has spend money and time trying to develop their emulation software... so why let that effort go to waste. I haven't read anything from any other site that says that BC is out. How much money could you be saving by not including software... I'm not going to believe anything until I see the unit on shelves or until Sony actually shows the 40gb units.

[zerolens]

If BC is out of the PS3, the system is dead to me.

and it'll effectively cut off the ridiculously large base of PS2 users out there, which is, lets face it, their greatest advantage at this point in time.

You honestly think sony is going to roll over and say they're tired of dealing with BC and the PS3 will never be able to do software emulation? Be realistic guys, if Microsoft can manage it Sony can also. Will it be worse than the 80GB BC? Possibly, but this goes back to how much someone values BC. 40GB may have none or little out of the gate but it will be a work in progress like 360 BC. I just don't understand why some of you think sony is done with BC if all the hardware is pulled out.

Firmware updates have been improving the games. You'll hear about games at launch in Europe that didn't work then on a later firmware game x and y now works. They can't rely on the hardware forever, they want to go all software. If someone doesn't think that's good enough buy a used 20GB or 60GB version or keep a PS2 around.

[v1et r1ce]

Here is a comparison of the 40GB with the 60GB...its in French but you can make most of it out.

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/769/sanstitrerq5.jpg

I don't see anything about BC though.

[mykevermin]

4/10 of a kilogram lighter? That's crazy, considering they only took out 2 USB ports and the card reader. Maybe it's a big motherboard revision as well?

[v1et r1ce]

4/10 of a kilogram lighter? That's crazy, considering they only took out 2 USB ports and the card reader. Maybe it's a big motherboard revision as well?

Yeah I don't know what it is either but hopefully, it's nothing big.

[Blackout]

Honestly, with the way games come out nowadays, is BC the be all end all for a system? I mean, I know some of you are pretty hardcore about it, but I just don't have the urge to bust out Driver or Twisted Metal or any of my old games. There are too many new games coming out and too little time to play them all. I honestly am not all that upset about not being able to play every single one of my PS1/PS2 games. It would be nice, but for me it is so trivial it's not important. If I have a super urge, I'll just take out my PS2 like I do with my N64 or GBA SP.

Most gamers I know could not give two shits about playing their PS2/XBOX games on their new systems. They are too concerned about playing newer games. Granted they are not hardcore like a lot of CAGs are...but, I just don't see this making or breaking the PS3.

[Dr Mario Kart]

According to this (http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,135673-c,gameconsoles/article.html), from NPD, 37% of PS3 owners are aware of backwards compatibility.

However, from here (http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=14428), also NPD, they say that backwards compatibility was second in concerns for potential console owners, at 68%. Apparently content took the lead with 87%. I'm not sure where price ended up.

[mykevermin]

Wow. Only 37% are aware of BC, and 40% Blu-Ray? What the tarnation are people buying them for, then?

[Dr Mario Kart]

Maybe the overlap between the two groups is very high, and they just bought it for the PS3 games, not knowing about the format behind it?

[mykevermin]

Overlap may be there; it's a safe bet that folks who don't know about one don't know about the other.

[dmaul1114]

There are too many new games coming out and too little time to play them all.


I tend to agree. But that said, I have played through 5 games on the VC. But of course, with just owning a Wii, PS2 and DS at the moment, I've not had a lot of new games to play lately. Have only bought 3 Wii games since launch, no PS2 games since Guitar Hero 2, and only 2 DS games this year.

But in general, last gen I didn't play many old games. And I probably won't much this gen once the Wii picks up some steam (or if it does) and when I get a 360/PS3 to complement it.

So it's not a huge deal to me either. Not really much of anything on the PS2 I haven't played that I'm dying to play anyway (otherwise I'd have been playing it this year).

[js1]

I could care less if the 40GB has BC.

I would pick it up (which if rumors turn out be true, it will be the one I end up buying) just to play PS3 and Blu-Ray titles.

Same here. That's what I will hang on to my ps2 with a 160GB hard drive. ;)

[mykevermin]

It's confirmed.

Also confirmed: No BC. Yikes.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7030164.stm

[CaseyRyback]

They should have left it in so they could do it via software. Bad decision, but my friend is going to get the 40 gig because of the price and I am sure others will as well.

[trq]

It's confirmed.

Also confirmed: No BC. Yikes.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7030164.stm

Gawd ... dammit.

Well, I'm sure most people don't care enough about BC for this to be anything other than a pretty good move for Sony.

Unfortunately, it's a bad move for me. I'm a stickler for BC -- sorry, but I like to play my old games, and I'm not going to rebuy a PS2 when mine finally craps out -- so it looks like I'm still waiting until the 60 gig drops below $400.

[benjamouth]

I question if BC is a big deal to people or not, as Wombat eloquently put it in the CAGcast this week "Right now, God of War 2 is the best game on the PS3"

I deffo won't be buying the 40 Gig version now, I want BC and there will need to be some genuinely AAA titles on the PS3 to make me drop $500 on one.

I wonder if BC is gonna be fazed out entirely, on all models.

[orimental]

WTF?!? My PS2 crapped out on my last winter, so I haven't been able to finish FFXII or DQVIII. Price is the big reason why I've stayed away from the PS3. And now that it's coming down, they decide to cut costs where it hurts, and leave out BC.

[SpikeSpiegel]

Sony's strategy is to purposely make bad decisions, it's genius. I don't know who's worse right now, Microsoft with their poor product reliability or Sony with their so many SKUs they're not sure what they're doing.

[Scorch]

So, let me get this straight.

For $400, you get a PS3, 40gb, that's pretty much it. No BC.

For an extra $100, you get a 60gb PS3, full BC.

For an extra $200, you get an 80gb and a copy of Motorstorm, with limited BC.

Wow.

A "reduced emphasis on backwards compatibility"? Wasn't Tretton just bragging about how much the PS2 has sold? Good lord, what the fuck, Sony?

[mannysgoldglove]

Hmmm, Im still not gonna bite until they get that MUST HAVE game. I really want to give myself a reason to get one but Sony isnt helping much with these lackluster games.

[Apossum]

It's confirmed.

Also confirmed: No BC. Yikes.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7030164.stm


later Sony. Enjoy 3rd place.


on a related note, today is party hat day in MS' 360 division.

[jkam]

So, let me get this straight.

For $400, you get a PS3, 40gb, that's pretty much it. No BC.

For an extra $100, you get a 60gb PS3, full BC.

For an extra $200, you get an 80gb and a copy of Motorstorm, with limited BC.

Wow.

A "reduced emphasis on backwards compatibility"? Wasn't Tretton just bragging about how much the PS2 has sold? Good lord, what the fuck, Sony?

Wow, I am wondering the same exact thing....what the hell is going on? I'm even more confused since the newer PS3 models use software for emulation? This sku makes no sense to me...unless they are going to leave out BC from all future models which would kind of suck.

[theironunkind]

well, it apears sony is doing whatever they can to lower the price on this beast.....even in they alienate their fanbase. i applaud the effort but im not sure they are going in the right direction.

i bought the 60gb ps3 primarily FOR the full BC. i dont really need it for the ps3 portion (i only have resistance......other than folklore i doubt ill buy another game before MGS4. well, maybe EOJ. MAYBE.) there are so many versions of this thing out there that i feel bad for the kid who gets one for christmas, trades in his old ps2 to buy a game, throws in his old games and gets an error message. i really want sony to do well here, as good games are ALL THAT MATTERS, but im not so sure this round.

lastly, does anyone else remember all of the jabs sony was throwing at M$ when the 360 launched without full BC? and now they have a system with NO BC?!?! is this going to affect if we can download old ps1 titles on the psn? buh.

[Apossum]

Wow, I am wondering the same exact thing....what the hell is going on? I'm even more confused since the newer PS3 models use software for emulation? This sku makes no sense to me...unless they are going to leave out BC from all future models which would kind of suck.


Some people say "oh yeah, this has always been a part of the plan" but to me this screams "desperation."

[Dr Mario Kart]

I think this might be geared more towards the people looking for a blu-ray player(It even comes with a disc to start you off, right?). This doesnt indicate that they are necessarily moving towards a single SKU yet, so while the 60 and 80 persist, there is something for consumers that want other things, as long as they can stand to pay more.

[Reality's Fringe]

Well, if I don't get the money together for a 60 gig model before they're gone, I don't think I'll be buying one for a while (at least until the 80GB has a price drop and better BC). I don't see what Sony's game is here.

[nadroj1485]

lastly, does anyone else remember all of the jabs sony was throwing at M$ when the 360 launched without full BC? and now they have a system with NO BC?!?! is this going to affect if we can download old ps1 titles on the psn? buh.
The article on gamespot says:

When asked about PSOne games, Sony told GameSpot, "the backwards compatibility of PS one titles is achieved through software and the vast majority of PSOne titles are backwards compatible with the new PS3."

[metaly]

The average consumer has no idea about backwards compatibility and is probably mainly interested in playing new PS3 games anyway. The 40GB model is pretty much perfect for that crowd and should sell systems, which should lead to the PS3 finally having a respectable market share and thus more developer support. I'm excited. I don't see how keeping software emulation in could cost an extra $100, though.

[Cyb3-rr]

Sony, masters of the flip-flop.

[chakan]

*hugs my $300 60 gig from craigslist*

[Vanigan]

People will always find negative things to bash Sony on. The same people bashing Sony for losing the BC in the 360 camp are the ones who said BC didn't matter on the 360.

Just so you guys know, the thing they removed was some processing chip not directly tied to the emotion engine, but still needed to get the PS2 and PS1 BC working. It's a trade-off. However, I wonder if in the future they could completely emulate that last chip, and with full emulation they could try and improve some of their classic games. Like getting FF11 to run at 720p or something. One thing the article states was that BC was costing them a lot to put in, which makes me think that there was more PS2 hardware in the PS3 besides the emotion engine, or that there were still licensing issues they had to go through.

The biggest improvement is the price. The 60gb version which still has BC also has some other features.

Despite the loss of BC in this model, it fills its role perfectly as a cheaper entry level system that's finally the same price as one of the 360 models, but with arguably more features like the built in bluray and wifi. And Sony clearly states that BC is gone. If they want it they have to pay for the higher end model.

[Furashu]

*hugs my $300 60 gig from craigslist*

lol, wow good deal! i got mine for $50 more then u.

ouch gives me a BAD feeling that they dont have BC. sure there will be arguments "ps2 games are teh old!" and " i play all 500 of my ps2 games cause they rox0rz!" but it doesnt give me a positive feeeling even being $399. the LAST thing people are gonna do is " hey it still has blu-ray".

[dallow]

Not my favorite move, but I guess not a huge deal.

I'm curious as to why it says no PS2 support.
Does that mean it'll still play PSX games? :)

[dmaul1114]

People will always find negative things to bash Sony on. The same people bashing Sony for losing the BC in the 360 camp are the ones who said BC didn't matter on the 360.


Don't assume everyone is a mindless fanboy. 100% BC was about the only thing Sony got right for the PS3 launch, and MS was stupid to have such half assed BC when Sony and Nintendo had 100% BC at launch.

Seems silly of them to take it out now. It's kind of moot for me as most PS2 games look like horseshit on my HDTV (maybe they'd look better on a PS3 though) so I pretty much never play them aside from Guitar Hero I and II which don't work on the PS3 at all right now, and will only have partial support when GHIII.

So not a big deal for me, but still seems kind of lame on their part. Doesn't feel so much like a price drop when you're getting less than before.

[Blackout]

Don't assume everyone is a mindless fanboy. 100% BC was about the only thing Sony got right for the PS3 launch, and MS was stupid to have such half assed BC when Sony and Nintendo had 100% BC at launch.

Seems silly of them to take it out now. It's kind of moot for me as most PS2 games look like horseshit on my HDTV (maybe they'd look better on a PS3 though) so I pretty much never play them aside from Guitar Hero I and II which don't work on the PS3 at all right now, and will only have partial support when GHIII.

So not a big deal for me, but still seems kind of lame on their part. Doesn't feel so much like a price drop when you're getting less than before.

Most are mindless though. Price is too high, people bitch, price gets lowered, people bitch. Does not being able to play XBOX games on 360 make it a horrible system that won't sell? No. People don't care. They get their Halo 3 and their Gears of War and are satisfied.

[nadroj1485]

Not my favorite move, but I guess not a huge deal.

I'm curious as to why it says no PS2 support.
Does that mean it'll still play PSX games? :)
Yes.

Also I dont really get why so many are saying this is a doomsday scenario, at best this was only going to have the same BC as the 80gb version, so if BC is so important to you pony up the 100$ extra and get one with BC. How is it not a smart move to let people decide if they want the BC or not and give them a cheaper option if they feel they dont need it?

[Dr Mario Kart]

I think the customers that they may have lost for the time being are a drop in the bucket compared to how many they gain from the general population from the price drop, and that is the most important thing right now - marketshare.

Hell, BC didnt even really exist until the PS2 generation, and consoles got along just fine.

[dmaul1114]

Most are mindless though. Price is too high, people bitch, price gets lowered, people bitch.

Price was $300 too high, and is still $100 too high for me as$300 is the max I'd ever pay for a console...and that's pushing it.

So seems like legitimate bitching to me. People thought it was too high, some got excited for price cut since $400 was more doable for them, but now are pissed as they really wanted BC.

Sony has done everything they could to piss off people this gen from the high prices, ridiculous arrogant statements, etc. etc. This is just another boneheaded move on their part. Again, doesn't bother me much as BC isn't a big deal to me since PS2 games look so poor on HDTV. But it's just another move to piss people off and make the cheaper console not look as attractive as some.

[Dr Mario Kart]

I wonder if they'll add another SKU next year for the dual shock :-k

[dmaul1114]

How is it not a smart move to let people decide if they want the BC or not and give them a cheaper option if they feel they dont need it?


Just an issue as the $550 and $600 consoles are out of many peoples budgets--either more than they can afford or more than they are willing to pay for a game console. So it sucks for them that they can't go with the $400 if BC is important to them.

Guess the point is that many want BC, but $100-$150 to get it is a bit steep given you could just buy a PS2 for that, and that the 360 and Wii have it without having to buy a more expensive SKU.

Again, I don't care about it on the PS3, but I can see why people would be upset and think it's a legitimate gripe.

[Furashu]

Price was $300 too high, and is still $100 too high for me as$300 is the max I'd ever pay for a console...and that's pushing it.

So seems like legitimate bitching to me. People thought it was too high, some got excited for price cut since $400 was more doable for them, but now are pissed as they really wanted BC.

Sony has done everything they could to piss off people this gen from the high prices, ridiculous arrogant statements, etc. etc. This is just another boneheaded move on their part. Again, doesn't bother me much as BC isn't a big deal to me since PS2 games look so poor on HDTV. But it's just another move to piss people off and make the cheaper console not look as attractive as some.

lol legitimate bitching?
THERES SUCH THING!? wow what a statement, people are going to bitch no matter what, but this new SKU will sell well. cheaper price, why would u buy a ps3 to soley play ps2 games, it still has its blu-ray player and dvd player and ps3 game play. though i agree sony is making some STRANGE decisions to piss everyone off and we all go WTH are they thinking?

wait so is it coming to NA? cause ive only seen announcements for SCEEurope

[Zen Davis]

As Krazy Ken would say, "We're doing people the favor by removing the backwards compatibility of the PS3 since no one is buying games like Gran Turismo 3 and Jumping Flash anymore. The customers have told us they would like to move forward and we are helping them do just that. Also, they can now quit that extra part-time job they were working to save up for the PS3 Home System Not Videogame Machine.... Thingie... Yeah."

[regisphilbi0]

I"m pissed about this too. I have been an Xbox guy for years now, but was looking forward to getting a PS3 next summer/fall to play all the games I've missed, like Kingdom Hearts, Ratchet and Clank, God of War, FF 12, etc. No BC means a major selling point for me just got lost. Yes, I understand why they are doing it- to make the system cheaper- but it still sucks.

[NamPaehc]

My guess, is that Sony is going to say- "If you want BC, then buy a PS2." Price on that should be falling soon and we all know there are plenty out there. I know some people don't want another system sitting there but I could see Sony "giving them an option" like this.

[Halo05]

It's over, Sony is finished.

[hufferstl]

It would be awesome if they announce this to get people on the fence to go out and buy current in-stock consoles(since they have BC) and then when these new ones hit, it is a simple download from the PSN to activate software-emulated BC.

And I still say these "new" systems should have the freaking rumble controller in it. They are just going to piss people off again in when they start packing that in.

[Cyb3-rr]

It's over, Sony is finished.

Yep, last nail in the coffin. My guess is that the entire company will be completely bankrupt by next February.

[trq]

lastly, does anyone else remember all of the jabs sony was throwing at M$ when the 360 launched without full BC? and now they have a system with NO BC?!?!

Sony talk out of their ass and then backpedal about it? Never.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/Amanojaku/baitswitch_pa.jpg

[NamPaehc]

This is REALLY weird! The comments I've been reading around the internet... I mean... Everyone wanted a cheaper PS3 and no wait- right?

There is no way they could sell the current models without taking it from behind. Sure people can say how much they are losing already per system blah blah blah, but there is only so much they can do without giving the things away.

So the only options are to A) Let the technology get cheaper which could take a while or B) Dumb down the current models to please people right now.

I wonder if people would be happier if they could have either: $449 with BC or $399.

[Halo05]

Yep, last nail in the coffin. My guess is that the entire company will be completely bankrupt by next February.

I was going to say January but I could go with the conservative estimate of February.

[shrike4242]

Here's the interesting question. Once PS3's start having HW failures, such as the 20GB and 60GB w/full BC, what happens if they need a MLB swap?

Do you end up getting what you purchased, a PS3 with full BC, or will you get a SW only setup with the 80GB's MLB, or no BC with the 40GB's MLB?

This should make for some intersting issues as they start having issues over time.

[dallow]

DMK is right. (did i just say that?)

More average customers care about a lower price, than lack of BC.
This is hardly any kind of doom for Sony.

[trq]

This is REALLY weird! The comments I've been reading around the internet... I mean... Everyone wanted a cheaper PS3 and no wait- right?

Well, people wanted a cheaper PS3 ... but it's Sony who needed it NOW. I don't care what they cost until MGS4 and Tekken 6 hit. That said, the real problem remains the Bluray drive. That's what's keeping the cost up, that's what's showing marginal-at-best improvements to games, and that's what they absolutely cannot drop. So the other features, which aren't that expensive individually, take the hit. Most of them are fine. Do you really need four USB ports? Doubtful. But BC? Well, it's a loss to a lot of people, myself included. Will it matter to Joe Sony, who just wants a brand name he can recognize and a copy of Madden/GTA? Also doubtful, so it's nothing but smart on Sony's part. But you'd better believe this is a "save costs at the expense of the hardcore to appease the casuals" move as much as anything we've seen from Nintendo.

[Halo05]

What confuses me is why Sony can't use software BC in these new, cheaper, 40 gig PS3s. I mean, it has a HDD to hold the software, it has the same processor as the US 80 GB models that use software BC. This is just... odd.

[NamPaehc]

Well, people wanted a cheaper PS3 ... but it's Sony who needed it NOW. I don't care what they cost until MGS4 and Tekken 6 hit. That said, the real problem remains the Bluray drive. That's what's keeping the cost up, that's what's showing marginal-at-best improvements to games, and that's what they absolutely cannot drop. So the other features, which aren't that expensive individually, take the hit. Most of them are fine. Do you really need four USB ports? Doubtful. But BC? Well, it's a loss to a lot of people, myself included. Will it matter to Joe Sony, who just wants a brand name he can recognize and a copy of Madden/GTA? Also doubtful, so it's nothing but smart on Sony's part. But you'd better believe this is a "save costs at the expense of the hardcore to appease the casuals" move as much as anything we've seen from Nintendo.

We're on the same page. I think Sony saw that people wanted it for $399 and said "What do we need to cut to get there?"

I wonder if they got rid of the wireless internet and mangaged to put the PS2 emulation back (ps1 games I think still work) if that would have satified people? Or even tack on an extra $50 or so to help cover the BC?

The main issue I see is for Europe right now, because according the the release, the 40GB will be the only SKU there soon.

I wonder if they'd be bold enough to put the BC back in for the US release of the SKU if it happens.

[benjamouth]

Yeah I did want a cheaper PS3, but not a gimped PS3, now I'll have to get one of the more expensive models and you can bet your ass I ain't dropping $500 for the pleasure of playing Lair or Heavenly Sword. Which is a shame cos they might be decent games, but until I have a PS3 I only have the less than stellar review scores to go buy.

But as many have said, I don't suppose the 40 gig PS3 is aimed at me. I think I'll just wait till I can get a PS3 slim for $200 and Little Big Planet for $20.

I wonder how this 40 Gig PS3 will do against the 360 with it's 2 free games this holiday season.

[NamPaehc]

BC lose "explained": (http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2007/10/05/40gbs-loss-of-backwards-compatibility-explained/)

Now that Sony has finally come clean and announced its new 40GB PlayStation 3, it's got some "splaining to do." The biggest issue on most gamer's minds is why Sony decided to cut the backwards compatibility feature that linked the PS3 with the PlayStation consoles that came before it.

SCEE managing director Ray Maguire said Sony will use the money it dedicated towards backwards compatibility to invest in new games or to perhaps lower prices so more gamers can afford to buy a PS3. "It was a big decision, and we know it is a very emotive subject as lots of people think that backwards compatibility is high on the agenda and yet few really use it," he said.

We're not sure how Maguire came to this conclusion, but the PS3's backwards compatibility feature is always one that we've appreciated for a long time. With Sony's commitment to a 10-year life span of its hardware and games still being published for last generation's console, it seems like an odd choice "cut the cord" at this point.

[v1et r1ce]

Well correct me if I'm wrong, it did say there was no confirmation for a 40GB in the States...maybe (but doubtfully) when they do announce it, it'll have BC? I can hope.

[dfo]

Dumb move on Sony's part, period. I get that it makes things cheaper, but it massively slashes the game library on a machine that's still hurting for must-have exclusives.

I got my 60 gb so I'm not worried, but I want the PS3 to succeed and I think Sony's just driving people into MS's arms with harebrained decisions like this one.

The only credible justification I can think of is Sony wants a rock-bottom priced Blu-Ray player for the holidays. Even then, why not just slash prices on a standalone without gutting the PS3?

[zewone]

Great news; can't wait to pick one up.

[Halo05]

I hope you don't want to play the game featuring your avatar on it.

[Dr Mario Kart]

He couldnt possibly have a PS2

[TimPV3]

No BC doesn't bother me. While upscaling was nice, I've still got my PS2 sitting around. Why? Peripheral games.

[Halo05]

I got a PS3 largely to divorce myself from my PS2 and it's 8 memory cards. I couldn't hang with a non BC one.

DMK - I specified "on it" referring to the PS3. Try reading more carefully next time.

[Dr Mario Kart]

He's aware of the situation, and just said that he would purchase one. One would hope that he would indeed not expect to play PS2 games on it.

[BattleChicken]

DMK is right. (did i just say that?)

More average customers care about a lower price, than lack of BC.
This is hardly any kind of doom for Sony.
I'm personally on the fence about it.. I think they won't gain much ground from this move.. which will hurt them, but sales will certainly spike at least a little bit for a few months.

On the one hand, Price > all in the US economy... regardless of whether or not that makes sense in the long run, thats how it is.

So, if they release this in the US, a cheaper PS3 with missing features will probobly sell better than the more expensive but superior counterpart... but...

On the other hand, the games still aren't there -- At most there are a handful of games for the PS3 that warrant playing right now. The best game on the PS3 right now is God of War 2? I can totally see that. Without BC, what is there to play?

I played the Ratchet and Clank Future demo at a friend's house.. and its damn good, but not 'i'm buying a PS3 when the game comes out' good.

I'm predicting a bunch of returns on the $400 model when people buy it expecting the same features as the other model, and their copy of Madden 06 doesn't work -- time will tell.

[Dr Mario Kart]

Just think of it as the core 360. You couldnt have BC at all without the hard drive, right?

There a pool of people who will buy this, and to that end its a good idea.

[The Mana Knight]

The average consumer has no idea about backwards compatibility and is probably mainly interested in playing new PS3 games anyway. The 40GB model is pretty much perfect for that crowd and should sell systems, which should lead to the PS3 finally having a respectable market share and thus more developer support. I'm excited. I don't see how keeping software emulation in could cost an extra $100, though.It cost around $25 the GS and its components, and around $30 to keep the EE and its components. Removing both saves around $50-$55. Removing a few USB ports and card readers brings it up to around $15 maybe. Also, it uses the 65nm cell and RSX I'm told (therefore drawing less current) and cheaper to make (along with a 40GB HDD being cheaper). It may not save $100 (when compared to the 80GB PS3, which I expect to drop down to $500 soon), but I see it saving around $75 maybe.

As for the 60GB pricing, Sony just wants to ditch that model. It has the EE/GS and the old blu-ray disc diodes (which costs $100 to make, now they costs $8 to make). It will be phased out and they'll stick with 40GB/80GB.

Here's how I see the SKU in the future, and why I feel removing BC in it isn't bad. Let's just say in 2009, someone wants to buy a PS3 to play FFXIII and many other new games. There should be a wide variety of PS3 games by then, so there won't be a big need to have BC just to have games to play (unless you are one who goes back to older games, but you'd probably buy the SKU with BC). By at least having WiFi, you have a pretty good console for playing PS3 games. Not having card readers and PS2 BC doesn't hurt playing PS3 games at all. You can still download stuff from the PS Store. You can buy a USB hub if you want more connections. Basically, this will be a good SKU to have when the PS3 gets cheap (due to a wide variety of games and it has what you need).

[BattleChicken]

Just think of it as the core 360. You couldnt have BC at all without the hard drive, right?

There a pool of people who will buy this, and to that end its a good idea.

Thats a good point - However, someone who bought a core system can easily upgrade their core to have a HDD. because of the parts they are removing, you cannot decide to upgrade your PS3 to have full BC.

Shrike brought up a great point about warranty failures on the PS3. If you have a 60 gig unit, how will they replace it, if they discontinued your hardware revision? In that sense, I view it as a different ballgame -- I don't think that gutting features to save costs will serve Sony well in the long run

But your main point, that it will move units, is absolutely correct. PS3 sales will go up.

[Dr Mario Kart]

They can upgrade to BC by buying a $99 or less PStwo. You can even put it next to the PS3 and pretend its a 32x or Sega CD or something.

[dmaul1114]

There is no way they could sell the current models without taking it from behind. Sure people can say how much they are losing already per system blah blah blah, but there is only so much they can do without giving the things away.

They should bend over in take it in the behind. Just like they asked gamers who weren't videphile nerds to take it in the behind by charging $600 because in included a bluray player that the vast majority of people don't give a shit about/can't use because they don't have an HDTV.

[benjamouth]

They can upgrade to BC by buying a $99 or less PStwo. You can even put it next to the PS3 and pretend its a 32x or Sega CD or something.

PS3 - now featuring "ultimate compatability", the PS3 is now compatable with all video games ever made. Ultimate Compatability is achieved via the PS3's unrivalled ability to function correctly while sitting next to any other console.

I wonder how much they pay at Sony PR.

[shrike4242]

Thats a good point - However, someone who bought a core system can easily upgrade their core to have a HDD. because of the parts they are removing, you cannot decide to upgrade your PS3 to have full BC.

Shrike brought up a great point about warranty failures on the PS3. If you have a 60 gig unit, how will they replace it, if they discontinued your hardware revision? In that sense, I view it as a different ballgame -- I don't think that gutting features to save costs will serve Sony well in the long run

But your main point, that it will move units, is absolutely correct. PS3 sales will go up.That's the thing I'm most concerned about. If my PS3 goes face first in the dirt and it's the system board, what's going to happen?

I can see it now, they fix my 60GB PS3 with the system board out of a 80GB system, and they send me a PS2 Slim with the repaired system? :-s

[johnnypark]

I think removing it will have a really negative effect mainly because this is the 4th model in less than a year (and possibly a total of 5 packages if the 80GB goes down in price and drops Motorstorm), all of which - except for the 40GB - have BC.

I have a feeling a lot of the people holding out for a lower price probably know someone w/ a PS3, as the # of units sold just keeps going up, most of whom are probably aware it plays the old games. It finally hits less than 1/2 a grand (you know I never thought I'd make a statement like that referring to a fucking console) and the 2,000+ titles that were already playable on it is cut down to less than 100, 1/2 of which are crap or ports?

I don't care how cheap the PS2 is, how many people have sold their PS2 to help pay for the cost of a PS3? Gamestop has even had promotions for trading them in towards a PS3. Speaking of Gamestop... how many self-righteous employees do you think are going to misinform people about BC on the 40GB model? I know it's not everyone who works there, but I almost always hear something retarded or flat out wrong about a system or a game release when I'm in there. I'll stop there, since I know how many threads are devoted to that topic. But oh man, it hurts my head just thinking about it.

PS3 - now featuring "ultimate compatability", the PS3 is now compatable with all video games ever made. Ultimate Compatability is achieved via the PS3's unrivalled ability to function correctly while sitting next to any other console.


I didn't know Phil Harrison posted on CAG!

:)

[daroga]

I'm really confused about this. Didn't they already spend the money on the software BC? They don't need to make it better. So why on earth would they keep it out of the system.

Not that it makes a huge difference to a lot of people, I understand, but what is the pro to outweigh the con of taking it out all-together? Seems like just a waste of already-spent cash.

[H.Cornerstone]

I question if BC is a big deal to people or not, as Wombat eloquently put it in the CAGcast this week "Right now, God of War 2 is the best game on the PS3"

I deffo won't be buying the 40 Gig version now, I want BC and there will need to be some genuinely AAA titles on the PS3 to make me drop $500 on one.

I wonder if BC is gonna be fazed out entirely, on all models.

That's a very unfair statement, as God of War is in contention for Game of the Year, also What game in the first year of Xbox 360 was better than Ninja gaiden Black, Halo 1, 2, Jade empire, Forza or KOTOR 1 and 2?

[Dr Mario Kart]

If Phil posted here, we'd have some real gems:

"Backwards compatibility, as you know from PlayStation One and PlayStation 2, is a core value of what we believe we should offer. And access to the library of content people have created, bought for themselves, and accumulated over the years is necessary to create a format. PlayStation is a format meaning that it transcends many devices -- PSOne, PS2, and now PS3" - Phil Harrison, Sony, December 2006.

"I think we wouldn't take that strategy. We wouldn't create confusion" - Phil Harrison on having multiple hardware options, Sony, August 2005.

[johnnypark]

I'm really confused about this. Didn't they already spend the money on the software BC? They don't need to make it better. So why on earth would they keep it out of the system.

Not that it makes a huge difference to a lot of people, I understand, but what is the pro to outweigh the con of taking it out all-together? Seems like just a waste of already-spent cash.

I read on another site that despite software emulation/BC, there was a graphics chip or something which was still needed, they had originally only dropped the Emotion Engine. That still doesn't make sense to me, though, since the PS3 is probably more than capable of completely emulating the PS2. Here's to trying to Craigslist an older model, since BC was more than 1/2 the reason I'd even remotely consider getting one.

[Thomas96]

Maybe they should have cut out the Wifi instead, of BC... but for 400.00 dollars, i still feel that its missing.

[NamPaehc]

I read on another site that despite software emulation/BC, there was a graphics chip or something which was still needed, they had originally only dropped the Emotion Engine. That still doesn't make sense to me, though, since the PS3 is probably more than capable of completely emulating the PS2. Here's to trying to Craigslist an older model, since BC was more than 1/2 the reason I'd even remotely consider getting one.

You like in the UK?

[benjamouth]

That's a very unfair statement, as God of War is in contention for Game of the Year, also What game in the first year of Xbox 360 was better than Ninja gaiden Black, Halo 1, 2, Jade empire, Forza or KOTOR 1 and 2?

Funny, I'm reading back my quote and can find no mention of the Xbox or Xbox 360.

I'll answer your question with a question, what currently available PS3 game is better than God of War 2 ?

EDIT - Actually Oblivion was better than all of the Xbox games you mention.

[daroga]

I read on another site that despite software emulation/BC, there was a graphics chip or something which was still needed, they had originally only dropped the Emotion Engine. That still doesn't make sense to me, though, since the PS3 is probably more than capable of completely emulating the PS2. Here's to trying to Craigslist an older model, since BC was more than 1/2 the reason I'd even remotely consider getting one.I suppose that makes sense. But, as you said, they couldn't get that SUPERPOWERFUL machine to run PS1 & 2 games? Really?

[H.Cornerstone]

I suppose that makes sense. But, as you said, they couldn't get that SUPERPOWERFUL machine to run PS1 & 2 games? Really?

Exactly my thinking, if they can get most every PSX game to work, why not PS2 games?

[johnnypark]

You like in the UK?

No, I was referring to the 80GB model which lost the EE and uses software emulation for the CPU instead. I'd actually forgotten the Euro 60GB was the same way, but that doesn't change anything.

Man, Europeans are are really getting screwed on this one. At least here in the US there's a wealth of older systems available that support it, and are sometimes cheaper than even the new 40GB will be.

[evilmax17]

What confuses me is why Sony can't use software BC in these new, cheaper, 40 gig PS3s. I mean, it has a HDD to hold the software, it has the same processor as the US 80 GB models that use software BC. This is just... odd.
That's really the question.

They've ALREADY invested the money in developing a software solution for backwards compatibility. It's ALREADY implemented in PS3s that are on store shelves.

They have nothing to gain by excluding it, because it's already been developed. I could understand if they didn't want to spend any more money in updating it, but why not include it in its current, mostly working state?

Perplexing.

[benjamouth]

Man, Europeans are are really getting screwed on this one. At least here in the US there's a wealth of older systems available that support it, and are sometimes cheaper than even the new 40GB will be.

So hard it makes our eye's water, I mean the French and Germans deserve it, but not us plucky Brits :)

[CrimsonPaw]

Like you guys, I have to laugh at the complete fuck up that is Sony this generation. I enjoy my PS3, but mostly BECAUSE of the BC it provides (God of War, Okami, Beyond Good and Evil, MGS, Tomba II, etc.); they are completely fucking themselves by removing the BC.

Considering the PS2, in MY OPINION, has the strongest library to date I can't understand the logic behind removing that option .... what a fucking joke, I'm so glad I got my 60GB when I did. I'm sure down the line they'll be releasing a 25GB model with BC, no USB, and a clown nose.

[whiptcracker]

That's a very unfair statement, as God of War is in contention for Game of the Year, also What game in the first year of Xbox 360 was better than Ninja gaiden Black, Halo 1, 2, Jade empire, Forza or KOTOR 1 and 2?

Not sure what that has to do with anything but Oblivion, PGR3, Gears of War (just barely before then end of the 1st year), etc. But Halo 2 is still one of the more popular Live games and is backwards compatible on the 360 out of the box. Also those games you mentioned on the Xbox weren't released in the 360's first year, so I'm not really sure what point you were trying to make there.

There are still good games coming out on the PS2, and the system is still showing that it's profitable. Spending money on the R&D to add BC to the PS3 then stripping it out seems like an odd move to me. While I know it will boost short term sales I honestly wonder if the confusion will cause consumer backlash towards the system. They've talked a lot about backwards compatibility, and I think the average Sony consumer expects the playstation system to be BC. Unless they put a sticker on it or something I think they're going to generate some bad PR from this.

[The Mana Knight]

I suppose that makes sense. But, as you said, they couldn't get that SUPERPOWERFUL machine to run PS1 & 2 games? Really?The PS1 emulator has already been complete long ago and the PS3 cell can run it. With the PS2, it has nothing to do with whether the PS3 cell can handled it, it all comes down to the difficulty of emulating both the EE and GS. The EE was already extremely difficult to code for, and emulating alone is pretty difficult. Along with that, emulating the functions of the GS isn't exactly easy either. If PS3 was going to do BC without the GS/EE, every single PS2 game would have to be emulated individually as a driver (like the 360), and it would take forever getting the BC up to snuff. There have been a few PS2 games which can run without the GS/EE from emulators made by amateurs, but that number is like 5% or less. With MS, making Xbox BC games wasn't as bad because the selection of Xbox games is no where near as big as PS2, and PS2 games were made on a much more complicated architecture. Emulating the EE and GS is exactly like emulate the Saturn architecture, which is already pretty difficult and why there's no good Saturn emulator out there (The ones there are don't run every game and still have some issues with some games).
Exactly my thinking, if they can get most every PSX game to work, why not PS2 games?All along, there has been ZERO PS1 chips within the PS3. They already have an emulator for PS1 that can run on just about any platform. It was in development several years ago. With PS2, it's not techically possible yet to make software to emulate BOTH the GS and EE with at least 50% compatible.
No, I was referring to the 80GB model which lost the EE and uses software emulation for the CPU instead. I'd actually forgotten the Euro 60GB was the same way, but that doesn't change anything.

Man, Europeans are are really getting screwed on this one. At least here in the US there's a wealth of older systems available that support it, and are sometimes cheaper than even the new 40GB will be.40GB is coming to the U.S. too. The only reason we got the 60GB PS3 with EE/GS was because the software emulated EE wasn't ready until March.

As for the pricing, The 360 pricing in Euro is 349 Euros for the Premium and 449 Euros for the Elite. Replace Euro with $ and you have the U.S. pricing. PS3 has been priced the same way, at 599 Euros at launch, dropped to 499 Euros (same as $499 in the U.S., although the exchange rate makes it look more expensive) and a 399 Euro 40GB model (which will be $399 in the U.S.).

[daroga]

The PS1 emulator has already been complete long ago and the PS3 cell can run it. With the PS2, it has nothing to do with whether the PS3 cell can handled it, it all comes down to the difficulty of emulating both the EE and GS. The EE was already extremely difficult to code for, and emulating alone is pretty difficult. Along with that, emulating the functions of the GS isn't exactly easy either. If PS3 was going to do BC without the GS/EE, every single PS2 game would have to be emulated individually as a driver (like the 360), and it would take forever getting the BC up to snuff. There have been a few PS2 games which can run without the GS/EE from emulators made by amateurs, but that number is like 5% or less. With MS, making Xbox BC games wasn't as bad because the selection of Xbox games is no where near as big as PS2, and PS2 games were made on a much more complicated architecture. Emulating the EE and GS is exactly like emulate the Saturn architecture, which is already pretty difficult and why there's no good Saturn emulator out there (The ones there are don't run every game and still have some issues with some games). Pardon my ignorance. What's the GS?

[dallow]

Pardon my ignorance. What's the GS?Second half of the PS2's One-Two punch.

Emotion Engine + Graphics Synthesizer

[The Mana Knight]

Pardon my ignorance. What's the GS?Graphics Synthesizer. I'm not 100% sure how it was used in PS2 games, but basically it was the graphics chip for the PS2, designed by Sony themselves I believe (instead of having nVIDIA make the RSX for PS3).

It's strange because the EE was made to interface with the GS and no other chip (meaning Sony just can't use the RSX instead and expect it to do the exact same thing right off the bat). Although the EE was mostly being utilized when developing PS2 games, the GS is still needed.

[PenguinMaster]

Sony has no excuse for not being able to emulate a PS2 entirely using software on a PS3. Microsoft was able to emulate an Xbox (which is much more powerful than a PS2, so presumably harder to emulate) fairly well on an Xbox 360.

[mykevermin]

So hard it makes our eye's water, I mean the French and Germans deserve it, but not us plucky Brits :)

Eh, someone's gotta pay for bringing the world HP Sauce and Lady Sovereign.

[daroga]

Second half of the PS2's One-Two punch.

Emotion Engine + Graphics SynthesizerAh, ok. And do we know that the GS was in the PS3 before and now is not in these 40 Gigers?

[Weedy649]

OK so if the $400 ps3 did have bc, who in their right mind would buy the 80 gig with motorstorm?

Its not a matter of taking it out because they lose money on that ps3, its a matter of taking it out so that it doesnt fuck up their other SKUs. Its made many of us double guess the value of the $400 ps3, and so yes it has worked.

The old bait and switch, come in to get the new $400 ps3 and then find out for only $100 more u can get more hard drive space and bc! What a steal!

[The Mana Knight]

Sony has no excuse for not being able to emulate a PS2 entirely using software on a PS3. Microsoft was able to emulate an Xbox (which is much more powerful than a PS2, so presumably harder to emulate) fairly well on an Xbox 360.Sony can do it, however, the EE/GS is much more complicated compared to the Intel CPU and nVIDIA graphics chip in the Xbox. MS couldn't include the parts due to lacking the rights to them (anyone remember how their relationship with nVIDIA fell apart?). For 360 to run Xbox games, every single game has to be emulated individually as a driver and put on the HDD (which is why part of the HDD is already reserved for BC). Also, just how many percent of Xbox games run on 360?? It certainly isn't over 50% (not even close to 85%, when Sony emulated the EE on the 80GB/Euro 60GB).

Sony on the other hand has a much more massive library games to emulate in all territories (Like 2X more) and with the EE/GS emulating already being much more difficult than the Xbox CPU/GPU combo, it would probably be no more than 10% emulated. That's why only the EE was emulated, while the GS remained. Comparing development of the Xbox vs. PS2 emulator is basically the same as comparing PS1 and Saturn (Saturn had a more more difficult architecture to emulate, which is why there's still no good Saturn emulator that runs games very efficiently). Xbox may have been a more powerful console, but being a more powerful console doesn't mean it's harder to emulate. A CPU/GPU combo with a more complex architecture is definitely harder to emulate. You can have the most powerful hardware in the world and still have issues emulating it properly. Also, you have to take into the fact, MS is a software company afterall.

People are just trying to find more excuses to bash Sony, when I remember some people clearly said, they don't want to buy a PS3 to play PS2 games. They rather use or buy a PS2 for cheaper if they want to play PS2 games. They want to use their PS3 for PS3 games. Okay, you have that option then. If you want BC, pay an extra $100 and you got it. If you don't want it, you can save $100.
Ah, ok. And do we know that the GS was in the PS3 before and now is not in these 40 Gigers?20GB/60GB U.S./Japan PS3 have EE/GS.

Euro 60GB/80GB U.S./Korea have just GS (EE is software emulated). The 80GB SKU which will be dropped soon in price (as more 60GB consoles are gone, since they will be phased out due to its high internal cost) to $499.99.

It will come down to paying $100 more for BC, if you want it. Whether anyone wants to hear it or not, removing BC and card readers especially is the best way to get the PS3 price down. They can't remove blu-ray (although now it only cost $8 more to use blu-ray due to the diode dropping from $100 to $8 over two months ago or something), Bluetooth, USB ports are still needed (but they can cut back), HDMI (there goes DVD upscaling (due to the HDCP) and the FULL HD experience in some games and movies), and removing the HDD would just be plain stupid (most all games do need it and PS3 games cannot be directly saved to an SD Card, Memory stick, USB flash, etc.). The big cost factors that keep PS3 high are the Cell/RSX price. Sony could remove WiFi, but the only way that can be upgraded in a non-WiFi model is using a wireless ethernet adapter (like a gaming adapter or wireless bridge). It comes down to no BC or no WiFi (I believe the new WiFi is slightly cheaper than GS), to bring out a cheaper PS3. In the short term, removing BC made be a bad thing, but as soon as the PS3 library increases (kind of like how the 360 library has), BC will become much less important and having a PS3 with WiFi out of the box will just be much more important (those who say WiFi isn't important, are just like me initially, until I realized just recently how important it is. That's why I'm kicking myself for getting a 20GB model and want a new PS3 badly).

[kromekoran]

what's funny is that this is now at a price point that I would buy one, but without BC, I won't. I want to play the God of War games and Shadow of the Colossus and few others (haven't had a PS2 in like 4 years). hopefully a PS3 with BC will hit $400 by the time MGS comes out.

still very tempting though...

[Thomas96]

if the 40gb isn't going to have BC then it needs to be cheaper than 399, it needs to be dirt cheap, because its essentially missing the main thing that makes a playstation a playstation -

[daroga]

OK so if the $400 ps3 did have bc, who in their right mind would buy the 80 gig with motorstorm?

Its not a matter of taking it out because they lose money on that ps3, its a matter of taking it out so that it doesnt fuck up their other SKUs. Its made many of us double guess the value of the $400 ps3, and so yes it has worked.

The old bait and switch, come in to get the new $400 ps3 and then find out for only $100 more u can get more hard drive space and bc! What a steal!This is the only way this makes any sense. There's no reason for them to leave BC out of the 40 gig, other than it gives their higher-end model another bullet-point for the box. It's not that it's not able to handle it, it's that it's purposefully crippled to make the more expensive one look more attractive.

The irony I find here is that I thought Sony, if you're going to do the multiple SKU thing, did it well. Now, the PS3 SKUs are a spattering of features all over the place. Even someone who follows this stuff can easily become confused as to what they're getting.

[shrike4242]

On the box for the 60GB, the 60GB is in white text in a white rectangle.

On the box for the 80GB, the 80GB is in red text in a red rectangle, with a note on the front about the recduced compatibility.

What'll be on the 40GB, the 40GB in hot pink in a hot pink rectangle, with a note on the front saying "PS2 games? Fuck no."? :-s

[daroga]

Here's hoping!

[CAG 79]

I guess I'll be getting a 60GB PS3 now.

[The Mana Knight]

This is the only way this makes any sense. There's no reason for them to leave BC out of the 40 gig, other than it gives their higher-end model another bullet-point for the box. It's not that it's not able to handle it, it's that it's purposefully crippled to make the more expensive one look more attractive.Is the consumer willing to always pay the extra price just to get the BC. I guarantee that if this PS3 would have had BC, it would have been $440. $440 is STILL too expensive to the average consumer.

The irony I find here is that I thought Sony, if you're going to do the multiple SKU thing, did it well. Now, the PS3 SKUs are a spattering of features all over the place. Even someone who follows this stuff can easily become confused as to what they're getting.MS has done the same thing, so I don't see the difference unless the person is an Xbot who likes to kiss Microsoft's butt. It's so simple, but people make it hard.

40GB PS3 = no PS2 BC, but PS1 BC.

80GB PS3 (which will be the future main SKU) = has PS1 and PS2 BC for $100 more.

It's so simple. It's not exactly brain surgery or trying to calculate a Fourier series.
I guess I'll be getting a 60GB PS3 now.
If you can find it when you're ready. I seriously wouldn't be surprised (and I'd somewhat support Sony to do it) would be to completely remove the 60GB PS3 from the shelves and use it as a replacement console or server (like Warhawk does).

Why do I say remove the SKU?? For one, Sony knows that SKU is somewhat a mistake now, because it really burns their pocket, containing the EE/GS combo (at around $50-$60), Original blu-ray disc diode, original cell size (at 90nm), the most components (like capacitors and such), and many other parts which have reduced price significantly now. The problem is pricing that SKU in the mix, because they are already losing way too much money on it, and if the 80GB with MotorStorm was the same price (which it will be soon), how could Sony sell the 60GB??? Oh course, those who read messageboards daily and know the differences will buy it up, but the majority wouldn't touch it. They aren't exactly going to do some massive pricecut to ditch it when it already got a pricecut. With the 60GB gone, Sony can be down to two SKUs costly an estimated $500 and $580 to produce (Sony might be breaking even, but all I know is that the cost doesn't exceed those amounts), compared to the 60GB costing around $700-$800 to produce.

[daroga]

MS has done the same thing, so I don't see the difference unless the person is an Xbot who likes to kiss Microsoft's butt. It's so simple, but people make it hard.

40GB PS3 = no PS2 BC, but PS1 BC.

80GB PS3 (which will be the future main SKU) = has PS1 and PS2 BC for $100 more.

It's so simple. It's not exactly brain surgery or trying to calculate a Fourier series.Not quite. Microsoft hasn't messed with the core functionality of the unit. The big bonehead thing they did with the Core was to not put any memory unit in the box. Aside from that, the only differences are color and harddrive space (and bundled cables).

The PS3 has messed with WiFi, Cardreaders, Limited Backwards Compatibility and No Backwards compatibilty. Having now 4 different models (5 counting the 60 GB no EE for Europe) with pretty serious differences (and no way to make up for most of those differences with optional accessories down the line). Even with a core 360 I can make it fucntionaly like an Elite if I out the cash for the HDD, cables, etc. If you get a 40 GB PS3 and think, I wanna try that PS2 game I missed now..." you're SOL.

Neither is ideal in any way, shape or form. But Sony's is a major hose job right now.

[trq]

Maybe they should have cut out the Wifi instead, of BC... but for 400.00 dollars, i still feel that its missing.

Agreed. The WiFi is more a matter of convenience than functionality. I'd rather have BC and have to run a cable from my router, personally.

OK so if the $400 ps3 did have bc, who in their right mind would buy the 80 gig with motorstorm?

Its not a matter of taking it out because they lose money on that ps3, its a matter of taking it out so that it doesnt up their other SKUs. Its made many of us double guess the value of the $400 ps3, and so yes it has worked.

The old bait and switch, come in to get the new $400 ps3 and then find out for only $100 more u can get more hard drive space and bc! What a steal!

Good call. That's pretty much the only thing that makes sense, so far.

MS has done the same thing, so I don't see the difference unless the person is an Xbot who likes to kiss Microsoft's butt. It's so simple, but people make it hard.

Not everybody sees the hobby in black and white, champ. It's perfectly possible to not like how Sony and Microsoft are handling multiple SKUs. What, are there four versions of each system now? It sucks across the board.

[The Mana Knight]

Not quite. Microsoft hasn't messed with the core functionality of the unit. The big bonehead thing they did with the Core was to not put any memory unit in the box. Aside from that, the only differences are color and harddrive space (and bundled cables).Yes, but it was heavily gimped. You just couldn't get the same experience with the 360 buying it as you would the Premium. With Sony, you can get the same awesome experience with the PS3 with the 40GB for gaming related things, but you just can't play PS2 games (card readers are meaningless for games).

The PS3 has messed with WiFi, Cardreaders, Limited Backwards Compatibility and No Backwards compatibilty. Having now 4 different models (5 counting the 60 GB no EE for Europe) with pretty serious differences (and no way to make up for most of those differences with optional accessories down the line). Okay, so now let's take a look at how many different SKUs MS has had:
Xbox 360 Core
Xbox 360 Core XBLA pack w/ HDMI
Xbox 360 Premium
Xbox 360 Premium with HDMI
Xbox 360 Elite
Xbox 360 Halo 3 set

Now that's 6 SKUs there.

[quote]Even with a core 360 I can make it fucntionaly like an Elite if I out the cash for the HDD, cables, etc.Yes you can, but you gotta pay $180 for a 120GB HDD, wireless controller for $50, and component cables for $40. And don't forget, if you want a WiFi adapter, that's $100. :lol:

If you get a 40 GB PS3 and think, I wanna try that PS2 game I missed now..." you're SOL.$130 for a PS2 (which might be dropping to $100 soon) is cheaper than paying $170 for a 120GB HDD to make it like an Elite.

Neither is ideal in any way, shape or form. But Sony's is a major hose job right now.Sony isn't hosed right now. Only in a Wii60 fanboy's wet dream they are. :lol:

[The Mana Knight]

if the 40gb isn't going to have BC then it needs to be cheaper than 399, it needs to be dirt cheap, because its essentially missing the main thing that makes a playstation a playstation -It costs around $80 less to produce. How does that actually equal more than $100 less in price tag??? Sony has already taken a big loss already and are not about to increase it more.

Not everybody sees the hobby in black and white, champ. It's perfectly possible to not like how Sony and Microsoft are handling multiple SKUs. What, are there four versions of each system now? It sucks across the board.
Oh course multiple SKUs suck and I agree, but the problem is that when you release a console with a lot of features, it will be expensive and you somewhat have to find ways to release a cheaper version, appealing to certain people.

Also daroga, I will admit (and Sony's knows this too) their initial two PS3 hardware SKUs were a mistake 20GB/60GB, because they were expensive to make (due to 20GB/60GB HDDs being more expensive in bulk and have to be special ordered, price difference between the two is $30-$40, which is too close). Initially the price difference was going to make more sense with HDMI not in the 20GB initially, but once it was added (since Japanese wanted it in that Q&A session Ken K. had), the pricing became messed up. So, in reality, Sony does want to forget these two SKUs exists by starting all over again, with two SKUs priced about what they should between each other (meaning manufacturing costs and retail price difference is about the same). With the 40GB and 80GB SKU (and let's say 80GB is $500 soon, like it should be), then Sony is right where they want to be because the 80GB is has no EE (which they wanted at launch, but it wasn't ready in time and the PS3 could not stand to be two Holiday seasons behind in the U.S. and Japan), and there's a cheaper 40GB model. Sony will be taking much less loss for these models in the future, and it will be much easier for Sony to continue reducing the price (the problem with the EE/GS is that the price of them isn't going down anymore really). Both have WiFi (which is gone because upgrading to that is a pain), and the HDDs are in 40GB increments (which is industry standard and cheaper to get).

[dallow]

On the box for the 60GB, the 60GB is in white text in a white rectangle.

On the box for the 80GB, the 80GB is in red text in a red rectangle, with a note on the front about the recduced compatibility.

What'll be on the 40GB, the 40GB in hot pink in a hot pink rectangle, with a note on the front saying "PS2 games? Fuck no."? :-shttp://www.proximalabs.com/shit/nochrome.jpg

[Furashu]

everyone should just stop complaining about the no BC.
just buy a fucking ps2 to play those ps2 games then jesus christ.

everyones complaining about how lost sony is on marketing it, but people complain it doesnt play ps2 games, but arent u buying a PS3 to play PS3 games? its 400 dollars now, a great deal for a next gen system that plays PS3 games and blu-rays. if i didnt already have one i would jump all over it.

[Surferflames]

I am very excited. After not biting on the 410 dollar 60 gig from meijers, I was pretty mad at myself(though my credit cards are happy with me for it...). I don't care about BC, as I've owned my PS2 since launch and played everything I've wanted to play. I was going to put my own HDD in the thing down the road anyway, so 40 won't matter. Hurray, Looks like I'll be getting a PS3 this fall.

[io]

Mana Knight, you have convinced me of one thing - I'm going to wait indefinitely until Sony can get their shit together and release a nice, single, stable system. (Not stable in the sense of lack of RRoD but stable in the sense of feature changes). If all these components are changing and things are going from 90 to 65 nm, and different chips are going in or out or whatever, then I'm just going to wait. Maybe by the time they come out with a PS3 slim things will have settled down. And I'm certainly no 360 fanboy, but I really don't think the situations compare, as Daroga has already expressed. The only big addition to the 360 SKUs is HDMI, and that's being phased into all models not offered in one and not the others (at least in the long run once all the current models are sold out).

Let's also not forget that they STILL haven't fixed the compatibility issues with 1080i only HDTVs. I've heard from many in the SDF that all new games will come out with scaling options to support 1080i since Sony had finally "opened that up". Last I read, the latest big first-party published release (Heavenly Sword) did no such thing. And don't tell me to shell out $1500 for a new TV when I have a perfectly functional one that looks great playing 360 games ;).

As for the whole multiple SKU/feature creep issue, look at the one system that is outselling the others. I see only one version of those being sold - makes it real simple.

FWIW, backwards compatibility is not a big issue for me. I do have a PS2, and would use that for PS2 games just like I used the Gamecube now even though I have a Wii. The only system where it is important to me is the 360 since I never had an Xbox, While they aren't anywhere near full compatibility with it, they've pretty much covered all the games I might ever want to try out.

[dallow]

Just buy the one you want IO.
Don't let SKUs scare you.

[The Mana Knight]

everyone should just stop complaining about the no BC.
just buy a fucking ps2 to play those ps2 games then jesus christ.

everyones complaining about how lost sony is on marketing it, but people complain it doesnt play ps2 games, but arent u buying a PS3 to play PS3 games? its 400 dollars now, a great deal for a next gen system that plays PS3 games and blu-rays. if i didnt already have one i would jump all over it.I agree.

If you want to play several PS2 games, I just recommend getting a PS2 if anything. Reasons are that games with accessories (those which aren't already USB) won't work on PS3 (some do with an adapter), and many games themselves have some small issues (from sound clipping in Sonic Mega Collection +, Kingdom Hearts II having some glitch on PS3 causing you to not be able to advance I hear, some games have weird sound problems (like FFX), and so on. Yeah it may lack the upscaling and you need memory cards, but they'll work just fine without any issues (I'm even talking about the 60GB PS3 with EE).

Yeah, I understand what Sony is doing. There are around 120 million PS2 consoles out there. There's no way any game console will outsell that (including PS3). With that number sold, most people who will buy a PS3 probably had a PS2, so it's not like they have PS2 games and no PS2 (unless they sold it long ago and kept the games). For the casuals who just want upgraded versions of Madden, Pro Evolution Soccer, GTAIV, etc., this PS3 is perfect for them. Those who just want a blu-ray player and maybe play a few PS3 games, this will be the perfect SKU for them. There's STILL a SKU with BC, so I don't see why everyone is bitching. I just think everyone wants to bitch because it's Sony, and they want to see them die.

[Punk_Raven]

everyone should just stop complaining about the no BC.
just buy a fucking ps2 to play those ps2 games then jesus christ.

everyones complaining about how lost sony is on marketing it, but people complain it doesnt play ps2 games, but arent u buying a PS3 to play PS3 games? its 400 dollars now, a great deal for a next gen system that plays PS3 games and blu-rays. if i didnt already have one i would jump all over it.

Are you a sony employee? They would know that BC was one of the things that sold the PS2 when it first came out ( along with the DVD player). The xbox 360 is 350 and is atleast somewhat BC. There's really no excuse. I find it crazy that you'd have to pay more just to play older, cheaper games.


PS2's huge library should be one of the selling points for a console that really doesn't have any *hott* games out now.

[Richlough]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/Richlough/PulpMarselluButch.jpg
Bring out the gimp !

[Furashu]

Are you a sony employee? They would know that BC was one of the things that sold the PS2 when it first came out ( along with the DVD player). The xbox 360 is 350 and is atleast somewhat BC. There's really no excuse. I find it crazy that you'd have to pay more just to play older, cheaper games.


PS2's huge library should be one of the selling points for a console that really doesn't have any *hott* games out now.

no im not an employee, but u dont buy a next gen system to play ps2 games, maybe one or two on the side but are u really going to play 10+ titles or something? u dont buy a wii to play gamecube games, u dont buy a 360 to play xbox games, u buy the system to play the NEXT-gen games, yeah its a "selling point" but sony finally delivered a $399 system that plays PS3 games and blu-rays. im just tired of people criticizing sony.


how many kids wanna open a xmas present getting a ps3 and a buncha ps2 games? common now.

if ud REALLY wanna play ps2 games THAT badly, just buy a ps2. all the game are 100% compatable, u get rumble and a dvd player.

[Ivanhoe]

Are you a sony employee? They would know that BC was one of the things that sold the PS2 when it first came out ( along with the DVD player). The xbox 360 is 350 and is atleast somewhat BC. There's really no excuse. I find it crazy that you'd have to pay more just to play older, cheaper games.


PS2's huge library should be one of the selling points for a console that really doesn't have any *hott* games out now.

Good posting.

I like BC and the majority of gamers WANT BC. This has been shown and worked with PS2 and was a reason why it was put into the PS3 to begin with.
The ONLY reason to remove it from th PS3 is so they can offer a cheaper price.
I dont agree with the strategy because it once again seperates ps3 owners.

Just like the xbox core does vs the premium.


I for one say BC is one of the best things to happen to videogames.


I'm happy I can still play RE 4 on my PS3 and MGS3 and random RPGs from my PS1 and PS2 days.
It was a big reason why I could justify laying down 500bucks for the 20 gig at launch.

[anarchyburger]

damn, hearing about no BC in this new 40gb system really makes me want to just get a 60gb system before they are all gone. do you guys think its worth?? i love the fact that consoles are BC but idk if its worth it to spend all that money on a ps3 with such exclusive few games

[Furashu]

damn, hearing about no BC in this new 40gb system really makes me want to just get a 60gb system before they are all gone. do you guys think its worth?? i love the fact that consoles are BC but idk if its worth it to spend all that money on a ps3 with such exclusive few games


get the 60gb if u really care about BC.
the irony of all of this is shouldnt the more options people have the BETTER?

[IAmTheCheapestGamer]

get the 60gb if u really care about BC.
the irony of all of this is shouldnt the more options people have the BETTER?

Not really, not if yer not gonna USE them. Otherwise, it's wasted space on the system. Hell, the USB ports on all my PS2's had dust caked on em, cause I never used them, not even once. Same deal with the IR receiver port on the 50001 model I had, since I NEVER used my PS2s for playing movies. I have a DVD player for that.

I mean, it's nice to have extras n everything, but if it means that only the videophiles and technophiles are gonna truly appreciate yer system, it means you gotta scale it back SOMEHOW. But, taking away BC completely, which may be the ONLY source of entertainment for some if there's no good PS3 games coming out they WANT, well, that's just plain stupid.

Things they definitely could've kept off the system to begin with(imo):

WiFi
Card readers
HDMI port(no hdtv here, so don't need it)
etc
etc
etc

Things they could've USED from the get go:

Controller and memory card ports for the PS1/PS2 peripherals people already HAVE from prior gens

Cheaper price

I mean, it only looks like they were trying to one up MS by adding in MORE functions to their system, which they're now CUTTING to reduce their costs, to be able to lower their system price to a REASONABLE level that the casuals will be able to adopt the system at. $399 is CLOSE to tolerable for me, but maybe another $100-150 might push me off the fence on the 'i want one' side.

[v1et r1ce]

You know people traded in or sold their PS2s to get a PS3 so they still have a bunch of games...

[io]

Just buy the one you want IO.
Don't let SKUs scare you.

I guess I wasn't clear - I don't want ANY of them at the current price/feature combo (especially if those change month-to-month). I'll wait for a slim PS3. By then things like FF XIII will be Greatest Hits and I can get games cheap too ;).

Just to hedge my bets (or cover my bases? not sure of the right cliche here), though, I will probably end up getting one sooner than I should just like I did with the 360. I wish I had waited another 6 months on that for sure.

[IAmTheCheapestGamer]

LOL That's my attitude, IO. I mean, people continually say about 'all the things you get in the PS3', but not using all those functions means they're worthless to me and adding to the price. And now, Sony is finally getting smart and cutting out all that junk.

[gunm]

Lazyman question: I thought the BC was software emu. What makes it 0% no BC again?

[snowsquirrel]

BC was a huge part of the reason I bought a PS3 over a 360. I only had an xbox last generation, and wanted to check out a lot of ps2 games that I had missed.

There are a lot of ps2 gamers who still play their ps2 games regularily. Having 1 less system sitting on the shelf is nice. As well as upscaled graphics, wireless controllers, seeing friends on XMB, etc.

On top of that, I really fee it will hurt sony's credibility. Right now they have a good BC reputation, which MS's is really just lip service. They lose that advantage by doing this... also they lose potential customers for ps2 games. I know of ps3 only people who have picked up ps2 games. I for on picked up the PS2 versions of Rugby 08, and Champions League.

~S

~S

[jer7583]

A lower price is the right move, but software BC costs sony NOTHING and they're removing it why? Why can't anybody just do things right in the game industry? there's always gotta be some ass backwards part to ruin things.. 360 hardware breaks, Wii doesn't have enough internal storage, etc etc.

Mana Knight is working damage control overtime in this thread. Thank God I'm not a Sony Fanboy.

[Gentlegamer]

While removing all backwards compatability (even software which I thought was "costless") undermines Sony's seeming goal to have a "do everything wonder console," with the continued mass availablity of the PS2, is this really that big of a deal? That is, those who want to play PS2 and PS games have brand new consoles sitting on the shelves right now (soon to be $99).

Then again, without the lure of being able to play these legacy games, I guess the PS3 starts looking much less attractive to such players.

[lanzarlaluna]

It's amazing to me how Sony continues to drop the ball. With everyone's 360 shitting the bed, Sony could've been welcoming those ready to jump ship with open arms. Too bad their console was too expensive and they had no system-selling software... and still don't.

[jer7583]

Upscaling on PS2 games was a bigger deal than just being able to play those games. I've seen screenshots of the Guilty Gear and SF3 games that just look amazing upscaled. I won't have a PS3 till I have an HDTV though, which is to say not for a long time. I'd absolutely avoid this lowest price sku because of the BC issue, though.

[Gentlegamer]

Upscaling on PS2 games was a bigger deal than just being able to play those games. I've seen screenshots of the Guilty Gear and SF3 games that just look amazing upscaled. I won't have a PS3 till I have an HDTV though, which is to say not for a long time. I'd absolutely avoid this lowest price sku because of the BC issue, though.Ah, good point.

[FoxHoundADAM]

Ok NOW I'm convinced Sony is run buy a guy who literally has his head stuck up his ass.

Not kidding, the guy walks around all bent over and his head threaded through his zipper.

[mykevermin]

This just in: Sony still sells a PS3 that is backwards compatible! I'm being told they're known as "every goddamned PS3 except for the 40GB model."

I think it's a foolish move, and changing things up on the console is creating a lot of anxiety and confusion. Nevertheless, some of y'all just CAN'T be pleased. You want the PS3 to have everything it did in it when it was $600 and Sony was STILL taking a loss on it (less than a year ago, for the record). Now you bitched and bitched about how it was too expensive. In one year, the MSRP has dropped 33%. That's unprecedented among consoles. The PS3 can now be bought for $400 and has full functionality except for PS2 BC, in addition to giving you 5 free Blu-Ray movies via mail-in (6 if Spiderman 3 is included).

So, you know what? Shaddup. Really. I know you want to buy a PS3 for $150, have it clean your car, fuck your mother, play Blu-Rays and Saturn games...but you know what? Y'all were cryin' "WE WANT TO HAVE OUR CAKE AND EAT IT TOO!" Sony's idea of a compromise was to take out PS2 BC and offer a console at $400. Don't like it? Here's my sound advice for you: don't fuckin' buy it. Wait. Go enjoy your 360, Wii, PS2, and whatever else you own. The PS3 won't be $400 and $500 forever. Just shut up and wait a year; hell, wait 2 years. I bet you can get a PS3 for $250 by late 2009. That's nice, isn't it?

In the meantime, they're giving the consumer options. They can't really afford to take a greater loss on the console relative to what it was before. So, given two options of compromise: (1) keep the minimum one $500 until they can reduce their losses and sell the same item for $400, which sure won't happen this year and (2) sell one with a handful of options fewer for $400 in order to sell a lesser-featured one to consumers, they opted for the latter.

One thing Sony seems to have right: y'all WANT a PS3. You do. Otherwise you wouldn't be pissed about this. But guess what? If you want it cheap, and you want it to have all the functions included in it, you're not going to get it that way right now. So shut yer clam and wait, like a good cheapass should.

That said, my biggest concern about the omission of BC from the 40GB is that, unlike the 360 Core, there appears to be no way of changing your PS3 console, or adding something, in order to make it BC. That is an unfortunate and potentially major mistake (in the sense that these changes create confusion among dumbass consumers who won't buy one on account of uncertainty over what's in the box).

[Dr Mario Kart]

While I agree with most of what you said, being the contrarian that I am:

In one year, the MSRP has dropped 33%. That's unprecedented among consoles.
Xbox 1 Price History:
US$ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_dollar)299 (November 15 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_15), 2001 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001), Launch Price) (C$ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_dollar)449)
US$199 (May 15 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_15), 2002 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002)) (C$299):)

I couldnt find specific, dated price histories for the 3DO or Saturn, whom I suspected would be good candidates for such a thing as well, since they started out so high.

[cdeener]

This funny so now we have 20 GB, 40 GB, 60 GB, and 80 GB. The only one that is actually worth owning is the 60 gig and they don't even make it anymore. Sony make up your fucking mind on which setup you are going to sell so we can get some actual games to play on your system.

[mykevermin]

While I agree with most of what you said, being the contrarian that I am:

:lol: Fair enough.

[benjamouth]

Eh, someone's gotta pay for bringing the world HP Sauce and Lady Sovereign.

I know we can never make this right, but on behalf of the UK I offer my sincere apologies for Lady Sovereign. May her foulness rot in Hell.

Also thanks for the advice, sub $200 PS3 and $20 Little Big Planet FTMFW !!

[dpatel]

So, is it confirmed that there will be absolutely no BC in the 40GB (including no software BC)? Just seems like an odd thing, seeing as how the BC is strictly software based, it should be completely free to keep in. The only reason I could see for them to take it out would be to make the 80GB more appealing.

[usickenme]

I still think Sony will make BC a "purchase' on the 40 GB

[GizmoGC]

Sony :lol: :lol: :lol:

[-Never4ever-]

That said, my biggest concern about the omission of BC from the 40GB is that, unlike the 360 Core, there appears to be no way of changing your PS3 console, or adding something, in order to make it BC. That is an unfortunate and potentially major mistake (in the sense that these changes create confusion among dumbass consumers who won't buy one on account of uncertainty over what's in the box).

That's an easy fix, just offer the BC on the PSN at a big fat upgrade price.

[propeller_head]

So, is it confirmed that there will be absolutely no BC in the 40GB (including no software BC)? Just seems like an odd thing, seeing as how the BC is strictly software based, it should be completely free to keep in. The only reason I could see for them to take it out would be to make the 80GB more appealing. LAAAAAAMMEEE

if i hadnt already bought one w/ that sony credit card deal that made it $350, this would make me boycott it. that reminds me, i gotta cancel that credit card :no:



Imo this is why


They can continue selling more PS2s. some people who already have one will buy another because they're scared if it breaks and they stop making them they cant play all their old games.
They want people to buy the more expensive, much higher profit margin unit. because its such a "bargain"
It was part of their deal w/ the devil.

[mykevermin]

That's an easy fix, just offer the BC on the PSN at a big fat upgrade price.

If it were that easy, they'd offer it in the box, I'd imagine. If they left BC in, they'd come out smelling like roses with a $400 console (thought the usual gang would find something to bitch about, as it were). I think there's some credence to them omitting the graphics chip needed for software emulation, otherwise it's a damnfool move to leave it out (if it is indeed all software).

[torifile]

Sony just killed the only advantage the PS3 had going for it. They should have at least waited until there were some decent games out for the PS3 before dropping a neutered system on the market. Especially since to play anything at all you're going to have to drop another $60 on a game at purchase.

I'm glad I'm not a Sony shareholder. What a bunch of arrogant, bumbling idiots.

[orimental]

I'd be inclined to agree with the whole "don't fucking buy it" argument except that BC was part of Sony's whole 10-year plan. Heck, even Phil Harrison mentioned that it was one of their core values when developing consoles. They've got PS2 games still coming down the pipeline (whether they're ports or not) and they still have a lack of killer apps in their PS3 catalog. The entire PS2 catalog is probably the biggest selling point of the PS3 in terms of it being a game console. Sure, there's the BD player, but 2 hour movies can only take up so much time. Hopefully SCEA will learn from the negative reception that SCEE's announcement has received and actually manage to leave in something that even they themselves have deemed a vital part of their long term plans. If not, they better bundle in a PStwo with each 40GB PS3, for the same price of course.

[propeller_head]

If it were that easy, they'd offer it in the box, I'd imagine. If they left BC in, they'd come out smelling like roses with a $400 console (thought the usual gang would find something to bitch about, as it were). I think there's some credence to them omitting the graphics chip needed for software emulation, otherwise it's a damnfool move to leave it out (if it is indeed all software).
credence my ass. it saved them all but $12 according to isuppli. and im guessing its cheaper now than it was when they priced the chips. chips get smaller, they still make an assload of ps2s, they have no licensing fees to pay any1.

they did it to get people to buy the more expensive console and get them to continue buying ps2s. pure & simple.

[Thomas96]

they did it to get people to buy the more expensive console and get them to continue buying ps2s. pure & simple.


That's exactly right... cause Sony has plenty of backstock on the 80gb systems.

[Identity Fraud]

Yeah, I have the 80GB through that same CC deal, and when the PS2 drops in price I might get one if the software emulation halts; and just keep it under my bed incase my fat PS2 every dies.

But then again, I'm realistic, I rarely play my PS2 as is, I only played a few PSOne games on my PS2 so yeah, I think we're upset about the BC more becuase we got spoiled with it thusfar and the removal hurts more than if we never had it in the first place.