40gb PS3 $399, no bc - 11/2, $499 80gb, limited bc, now. 56,877 new skus rumored

[mykevermin]

credence my ass. it saved them all but $12 according to isuppli. and im guessing its cheaper now than it was when they priced the chips. chips get smaller, they still make an assload of ps2s, they have no licensing fees to pay any1.

they did it to get people to buy the more expensive console and get them to continue buying ps2s. pure & simple.

:lol: Yes, they're manufacturing a console using the exact same hardware as the 80GB and putting it on the market for $200 less, risking substantial losses, because they want people to buy the more expensive one. Sony's pretty dunderheaded, but not THAT much. You think they're willing to risk even MORE backlash against their business decisions, incur greater losses through a "trojan" console (based on your idea that the last thing Sony has in mind is to actually *sell* these 40GB consoles)...just to sell a $600 console that people weren't buying in the first place?

Feh...you just seem to have it in for any claim I make. I say that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. Let's see how your penchant for arguing with my claims because of who said it, rather than what was said, reacts to that. :lol:

[nadroj1485]

they did it to get people to buy the more expensive console and get them to continue buying ps2s. pure & simple.

Makes no sense at all. If they wanted people to buy only the 80gb version they wouldnt carry a second SKU plain and simple. They did this to give people who could care less about BC (probably the majority of people) a cheaper option. Also these specs are for the European models as far as ive heard, we dont even know if the 40gb is coming out in north america, and if it does it may very well have the same BC as the 80gb(Remember European market never had full BC like North America/Japan even with the 60gb)

I know its not the same beast as the xbox didnt have nearly as many good games as the ps2 but since I bought my 360 last year I have popped in a regular xbox game exactly once (halo 2, in order to get into halo 3 beta). Fact is most people just dont care about BC.

[-Never4ever-]

Again, I'm assuming they're omitting BC as to not make the 60 and 80 GB PS3s obsolete.

[daroga]

From about 1000 posts ago:
Sony isn't hosed right now. Only in a Wii60 fanboy's wet dream they are. :lol:Mana, you're getting too agitated and not reading what I wrote at all. I didn't say that Sony is hosed. I said this whole situation of a gazillion console versions is a hose job.

You also missed my point that Microsoft's bajillion SKUs doesn't thrill me either. My point was simply that overall there's less variance to confuse consumers with Microsoft's plan. Less, not none.

I do find it kinda funny that Nintendo, a company historically (and rightly) criticized for continually releasing minor hardware refreshes with their handhelds is the one player in the console race that sells one piece of hardware and one alone. They have yet to even change the pack-in with it (though I imagine that will change when Wii Fit hits).

All three companies should've just released a standard system and modified the free game (*gasp*!) that they pack in with the system. Microsoft should've had a harddrive in every unit; Sony should stop ripping core functionality out of their systems. This whole business model is a joke. One that at best confuses customers, and at worse, seeks to confuse them so that they are tricked into possibly buying more machine than they need or want.

[pgpg]

I can't wait until Sony applies the same logic to their HDTV lineup:

"Here is a new Sony Bravia 46" 1080p TV: costs 300$ less but does not display SD signal - you should be perfectly happy with your old tube TV sitting next to the new one in case you want to watch all your old favorite shows"

[propeller_head]

Makes no sense at all. If they wanted people to buy only the 80gb version they wouldnt carry a second SKU plain and simple. They did this to give people who could care less about BC (probably the majority of people) a cheaper option. Also these specs are for the European models as far as ive heard, we dont even know if the 40gb is coming out in north america, and if it does it may very well have the same BC as the 80gb(Remember European market never had full BC like North America/Japan even with the 60gb)

I know its not the same beast as the xbox didnt have nearly as many good games as the ps2 but since I bought my 360 last year I have popped in a regular xbox game exactly once (halo 2, in order to get into halo 3 beta). Fact is most people just dont care about BC.
it makes perfect sense, if you know any1 in marketing ask them. they will agree w/ me. humans are creatures of habit, & marketing is all about exploiting those habits. people dont like to have their freedom of choice limited. losing their ability to play ps2 games is limiting their freedom. that will make a good amount of people buy now rather than later & spend more rather than less. thats just how it works.

it screws the people who buy the 40gb model (i wish people would stop calling it a SKU, SKUs vary by stores.). but it increases their sales of higher profit consoles & ps2s (which have an insane profit margin now).

& lastly, just because YOU dont care about BC doesnt mean "people" in general dont. YOU are not Everybody.

[propeller_head]

:lol: Yes, they're manufacturing a console using the exact same hardware as the 80GB and putting it on the market for $200 less, risking substantial losses, because they want people to buy the more expensive one. Sony's pretty dunderheaded, but not THAT much. You think they're willing to risk even MORE backlash against their business decisions, incur greater losses through a "trojan" console (based on your idea that the last thing Sony has in mind is to actually *sell* these 40GB consoles)...just to sell a $600 console that people weren't buying in the first place?

Feh...you just seem to have it in for any claim I make. I say that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. Let's see how your penchant for arguing with my claims because of who said it, rather than what was said, reacts to that. :lol:
more fluff from you. you draw out your posts as long as possible to convolute your response.

it makes perfect sense. youre just in denial.

they want to continue selling ps2s
they want to create an incentive to buy the more expensive console

its that simple, that's the reality of the matter.

btw, you flatter yourself thinking i give a hoot about arguing against you. i argue for reason & logic, you just happen to be on the other side in insanityland.

[Dezuria]

I just hope Sony knows how to advertise the differences between the 80gb and the 40gb now. If someone buys the 40gb and buys PS2 games for it, they'll be pretty dissapointed to learn the hard way.

Personally, I still play PS2 games on my old phat PS2 anyway.

[jer7583]

Myke has mostly been pretty reasonable in this thread except his meltdown on PS3 naysayers about how we're spoiled brats and calling us out for "wanting our cake and eating it too"

I better fucking well get to eat my cake if I'm the customer here. Why should I have to gloss over things that disappoint me as the customer? If I'm going to give Sony money for one of their products, am I the badguy for wanting to be happy with my purchase? I'm happy with my 360, my Wii, my PS2, my PSP.. Did I do something wrong there? was I suppossed to just be somewhat happy?

As the customer of a purely entertainment centered, superflous, non-necessary device, I better get to have my cake, eat it, put ketchup on it, share it with a friend, take pictures of it, have sex with it, and then throw it at a wall afterwards. I don't understand this idea that you're just a whiny baby if you have a problem with the PS3. That doesn't solve my problem, and further promotes my near complete apathy towards the system this generation.

I wanted a cheaper system, well, it's getting there. I wanted better games, but that's not really happening. So 1 for 2, except now there's the issue that another main selling point of upscaling PS2 games is gone, unless I buy a more expensive unit, which negates another of my selling points, so whichever way, sony is still only 1 for 3 on my issues with the system. And thus I go on percieving this as a two system generation..*

*This in no way is a statement of doom for Sony as they will do fine this generation, rather as a statement of personal mindshare of which they have none.

[Vanigan]

BC was the reason why I picked up my 60GB for $500 now instead of waiting for the $400 or $450 model that I knew was coming within a year.

[propeller_head]

http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=55108

"Backwards compatibility, as you know from PlayStation One and PlayStation 2, is a core value of what we believe we should offer. And access to the library of content people have created, bought for themselves, and accumulated over the years is necessary to create a format. PlayStation is a format meaning that it transcends many devices -- PSOne, PS2, and now PS3."
- Phil Harrison

[RedvsBlue]

http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=55108


- Phil Harrison

Well now its important to cut any and all costs on the PS3 so they can try their best at not trying to come in 3rd place in the console wars...

[mykevermin]

more fluff from you. you draw out your posts as long as possible to convolute your response.

it makes perfect sense. youre just in denial.

they want to continue selling ps2s
they want to create an incentive to buy the more expensive console

its that simple, that's the reality of the matter.

btw, you flatter yourself thinking i give a hoot about arguing against you. i argue for reason & logic, you just happen to be on the other side in insanityland.

:lol: Please. This, along with your "consumer dislike of limited freedom of choice" mantra is absurd, simply because it is refuted by the very same console we're talking about. The transition from the 60GB to 80GB found that the EE disappeared suddenly, yet this was in the MORE expensive model. So this same marketing truism you're trumpeting (you certainly like to juggle around absolutes that are anything but absolute, don't you?) was handled in the COMPLETE OPPOSITE way.

So, if your naive belief about this system being manufactured by Sony, but that they really don't have any intention of you BUYING one, is true, then why would the very same company offer a MORE EXPENSIVE CONSOLE earlier this year that has LESS FUNCTIONALITY than its cheaper (60GB) counterpart?

Now, you may come to several conclusions here, all of which are equally absurd, save one: cutting the cost of the console. So, if it's possible for Sony to find the need to cut the manufacturing cost of a $600 console, then it's bloody well goddamned reasonable to think that the same console, less 2 USB slots and card readers, and being sold at $400, is taking SUBSTANTIALLY LARGER losses. With that in mind, they're going to want to cut the cost of that console even more, now, won't they?

Right?
Right.

[Halo05]

I have and enjoy my PS3 but at this point, not coming in 3rd is, in my opinion, out of reach. That's not to say there won't be a ton of good PS3 games but both the Wii and the 360 are wildly successful. At this point I think Sony should be focusing on finishing this generation with their reputation intact. Cutting out the BC takes a bite out of that.

[mykevermin]

I better fucking well get to eat my cake if I'm the customer here.

Quite true. But many people are making very unreasonable demands. But let's be clear here: it is *Sony* who is doing this to themselves. They caused problems by pricing themselves out of the market, and now they're causing themselves more problems by removing key features as the price of the console dropped $200 in 11 months.

My supposed "meltdown" is not because people want a PS3 with all the bells and whistles; it is because they want a PS3 with all the bells and whistles (EE/Full BC, DualShock, USB, wifi, Blu-Ray, yadda yadda yadda), and they want it **NOW**, and at the price they demand.

It simply can't work that way without doing Sony a great amount of damage in losses (which, again, they have done to themselves). If you want to have the duality that you both want a PS3 and claim they have no games (:lol:, what have you played on the PS3?), then they should have little incentive in getting one in your hands - after all, they won't recover the losses by selling you a console very quickly, seeing as how jaded you are about the console.

It's childish to cry and moan about how you (the royal "you," not you) aren't getting your way. If you want a PS3 now, then pay the going rate. If you want to pay less, then you're going to have to learn to develop the virtue known as patience. Imagine that.

That's as simply as I can put it. The PS3, like every console before it and every console to come after it, will eventually hit the pricepoint you, I, or anyone else will pay. They'll eventually be $15, collecting dust in the corner of a Goodwill somewhere. Just don't expect it to get there anytime soon; I find it unreasonable that people have to act so childish about it; it's as if many folks are collectively throwing a temper tantrum because they can't seem to get over the fact that, if they want what they want NOW, they have little bargaining room over price (save, say, Craigslist).

And I'd like to think I'm a reasonable person in general, though I'll be the first to admit I'm not particularly nice. I think those things are mutually exclusive. A reasonable person, but also a bastard. :lol:

[nadroj1485]

it makes perfect sense, if you know any1 in marketing ask them. they will agree w/ me. humans are creatures of habit, & marketing is all about exploiting those habits. people dont like to have their freedom of choice limited. losing their ability to play ps2 games is limiting their freedom. that will make a good amount of people buy now rather than later & spend more rather than less. thats just how it works.

it screws the people who buy the 40gb model (i wish people would stop calling it a SKU, SKUs vary by stores.). but it increases their sales of higher profit consoles & ps2s (which have an insane profit margin now).

& lastly, just because YOU dont care about BC doesnt mean "people" in general dont. YOU are not Everybody.

Lol. This might make perfect sense to you but for the life of me I cant quite follow the logic...so adding an extra option actually limits your freedom of choice? They didnt take anything away by giving you this option(the 80gb is still going to be on shelves) they just provided an alternative for people who dont want BC but want a cheaper PS3.

And YOU dont know whether I care about BC or not (I did mention I never played any xbox games on my 360 but that was to show that not everyone really cares about BC). I in fact missed most of the great games (my ps2 messed up a long time ago) on ps2 which is one of the reasons I coughed up the extra $100 and bought a 60gb. That being said though I still believe the majority of people could care less about it. But those that do, guess what? they can still have BC with the 80gb.

[Furashu]

this is madness!!!


hasnt even been announced for north america yet, lets just end this thread, sony reps need to read this thread, so they go go "dam we needa put BC in, raise the price by 0$"

[orimental]

My supposed "meltdown" is not because people want a PS3 with all the bells and whistles; it is because they want a PS3 with all the bells and whistles (EE/Full BC, DualShock, USB, wifi, Blu-Ray, yadda yadda yadda), and they want it **NOW**, and at the price they demand.

Sony's biggest problem right now is that they have no idea what they want or what consumers want. It's safe to say that as of this moment, they're pretty unstable when it comes to their position on certain topics and features. While it's not unheard of a company to put out multiple SKUs (case in point, MS), it's just confusing to everyone because it's different SKUs for different regions. The US has had three different SKUs. Australia has different SKUs and so does Europe.

So when we read headlines talking about price drops in other regions, we automatically get this idea that it's going to affect us. And when it comes to internal hardware/software features and not bundled items, it most likely will, especially if they don't want to lose anymore money if they have to. With all of these different SKUs coming down the pipeline every other month, or so it seems, it just gets frustrating for everyone. It's especially frustrating to hear that they threw out an important feature for many to save money when they could have waited until a few months later to make the announcement but feasibly cut costs down to where they can keep it in.

[orimental]

Lol. This might make perfect sense to you but for the life of me I cant quite follow the logic...so adding an extra option actually limits your freedom of choice? They didnt take anything away by giving you this option(the 80gb is still going to be on shelves) they just provided an alternative for people who dont want BC but want a cheaper PS3.

Simple economics/business. By putting out a cheaper model that doesn't have standard software/hardware features that are attractive, but are included in more expensive models, consumers are more likely to move towards the one that has more features. Sony is hoping that they'll sell more of the expensive ones, since they lose less money on those. It's what MS did with the 360, offering the Core and Premium packages. Ask MS which 360 was their bestselling one and they'll tell you it was Premium. Ask Apple which iPhone sold more and they'll tell you and even show you figures that it was the 8GB model versus the 4GB one.

[mykevermin]

Simple economics/business. By putting out a cheaper model that doesn't have standard software/hardware features that are attractive, but are included in more expensive models, consumers are more likely to move towards the one that has more features. Sony is hoping that they'll sell more of the expensive ones, since they lose less money on those. It's what MS did with the 360, offering the Core and Premium packages. Ask MS which 360 was their bestselling one and they'll tell you it was Premium. Ask Apple which iPhone sold more and they'll tell you and even show you figures that it was the 8GB model versus the 4GB one.

Where I don't think this applies is that the PS3 is struggling to keep up with the competition (it's selling, but it's guaranteed third place at this rate), and Sony knows they need to get people to buy it. The iPhone, OTOH, did sell, and continues to sell, remarkably well (not to mention Apple had intended the overpricing for early adopters along with a fast $200 price drop from the beginning). Sony, IMO, is doing it out of necessity to keep up.

As for other regions/other systems, the only hardware difference Iknow of is that all EU consoles have the same BC that the US 80GB does. Are there other differences?

[KwanzaaTimmy]

Where I don't think this applies is that the PS3 is struggling to keep up with the competition (it's selling, but it's guaranteed third place at this rate), and Sony knows they need to get people to buy it. The iPhone, OTOH, did sell, and continues to sell, remarkably well (not to mention Apple had intended the overpricing for early adopters along with a fast $200 price drop from the beginning). Sony, IMO, is doing it out of necessity to keep up.

As for other regions/other systems, the only hardware difference Iknow of is that all EU consoles have the same BC that the US 80GB does. Are there other differences?

I think I know what you were going for with that last statement--- The differences in BC et all between US and UK.

It HAS to be that the GS is not going to come down in price at all, and that Sony (as of yet) cannot come up with a decent compatibility rate for software only BC (you know that they have to have some crack team working night and day on it). If UK variant BC was software only, this decision wouldn't had to have been made. There are always megaton PSN updates, however, and I do believe you may see 40 Gigs being able to play ps2 eventually....maybe...possibly.

I'm just glad that I got my ps3 when I did-- but I don't think it places the proverbial gun in mouth just yet. The last games we're going to see on the ps2 are games that no one here would even play.

Fuck regardless, I didn't even want this to be an option for Sony--- BC was a great feature for the ps2, one I think that shouldn't be moved to the back of the bus.

[orimental]

Where I don't think this applies is that the PS3 is struggling to keep up with the competition (it's selling, but it's guaranteed third place at this rate), and Sony knows they need to get people to buy it. The iPhone, OTOH, did sell, and continues to sell, remarkably well (not to mention Apple had intended the overpricing for early adopters along with a fast $200 price drop from the beginning). Sony, IMO, is doing it out of necessity to keep up.

As for other regions/other systems, the only hardware difference Iknow of is that all EU consoles have the same BC that the US 80GB does. Are there other differences?

No, but their SKUs are obviously going to be different from ours. It's just that everyone groups all PS3 SKUs into one group and assume that it applies everywhere. So there's this odd idea that there are like a million PS3 SKUs, which just hurts our heads to even fathom. Look back and you see people already worrying about what SKU their replacement PS3 will be. It just gets confusing hearing about all of the SKUs out there.

[nadroj1485]

Simple economics/business. By putting out a cheaper model that doesn't have standard software/hardware features that are attractive, but are included in more expensive models, consumers are more likely to move towards the one that has more features. Sony is hoping that they'll sell more of the expensive ones, since they lose less money on those. It's what MS did with the 360, offering the Core and Premium packages. Ask MS which 360 was their bestselling one and they'll tell you it was Premium. Ask Apple which iPhone sold more and they'll tell you and even show you figures that it was the 8GB model versus the 4GB one.

I'm not arguing that the 80gb wont sell morethan the 40gb model. His original statement was that the only reason they introduced the 40gb model is to get people to buy the 80gb model, why not just have no 40gb model at all? Then he said that somehow the 40gb limits peoples choices.

Having a 4gb iphone doesnt somehow magically make people want the 8gb iphone more than they would if there was no 4gb one to begin with.

[KingBroly]

I don't get how it doesn't AT LEAST have backwards compatability with what was already on the backwards compatability list. That makes no sense.

[nadroj1485]

I don't get how it doesn't AT LEAST have backwards compatability with what was already on the backwards compatability list. That makes no sense.
The way I understand it is that part of the backwards compatability was through hardware (gs+ee). In the 80gb version they removed the EE and used software emulation to replace it (which made it slightly less compatible with some games but most were fine). Then with this model they took out the other piece of hardware (gs) and at this time they dont know how to emulate both with software, hence no BC for ps2 games.

Since psone games were always emulated entirely with software they remain unaffected and will still work on the 40gb(although I doubt very many people care)

This is just what ive drawn by reading this thread and other articles, I could be wrong.

[Vanigan]

The rest of the world was clamoring for a price drop, while the few of us want to keep BC. Sony just made a call. Yes, it goes against prior statements, but times change.

I'd prefer a company that reacts to market demand the trends rather than a company that runs itself into the ground. They say insantity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. If Sony had continued with its higher price regardless of BC, they wouldn't have had enough market share to ensure the big name exclusives like MGS4, FF13 + VS, and probably some others.

That's not to say you should give Sony a break for saying one thing before then doing another much later. But when the market cries out for a price drop, and that the high price being the big glaring reason why your system isn't selling, something must be done.

Thankfully, you can still get BC in the other PS3 models.

[007]

I'm just... I'm just utterly baffled here.

In fact, if anything, I applaud Sony for finding new and interesting ways to baffle me daily.


Do they even realize how much they're undercutting their own consumer security with all of this? I'm almost convinced that they don't.

[orimental]

I'm not arguing that the 80gb wont sell morethan the 40gb model. His original statement was that the only reason they introduced the 40gb model is to get people to buy the 80gb model, why not just have no 40gb model at all? Then he said that somehow the 40gb limits peoples choices.

Having a 4gb iphone doesnt somehow magically make people want the 8gb iphone more than they would if there was no 4gb one to begin with.

He meant that the 40GB limits their ability to choose what games to play. But because it has no BC, they can't play PS2 games on it and thus alienates a certain consumer set. That is, unless they feel like shelling out cash for a new/used PS2, which negates the purpose of waiting for and buying the cheaper PS3. Instead of being able to consider the 40GB in your selection, you're relegated to looking for a 60GB or settling with the even more expensive 80GB.

Actually a lot of uninformed consumers are wowed at face value will see the model with more features as a bigger bargain or "more bang for your buck". So when they see the 4GB and 8GB models sitting there, they think to themselves "for $100 more, I can double the capacity!". In essence, they are more attracted to the 8GB model because it's there and because they have the ability of choice. If people were forced to choose from only one model, it would still sell well, but being able to choose makes consumers more likely to make such costly investments. They feel that they're making the right decision with going with the more expensive model that they can get more out of. If they're going to spend $500-600, why not get the one that will justify the cost? Psychology and business go hand in hand. I'm not saying that the primary purpose for introducing a SKU with a lower price and less features is to drive consumers to purchase the more expensive model, but it's a nice little psychological trick that businesses like.

[FoxHoundADAM]

Honestly I'd rather they drop wi-fi than BC. Bonehead move of the decade.

[FoxHoundADAM]

The rest of the world was clamoring for a price drop, while the few of us want to keep BC. Sony just made a call. Yes, it goes against prior statements, but times change.

I'd prefer a company that reacts to market demand the trends rather than a company that runs itself into the ground. They say insantity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. If Sony had continued with its higher price regardless of BC, they wouldn't have had enough market share to ensure the big name exclusives like MGS4, FF13 + VS, and probably some others.

That's not to say you should give Sony a break for saying one thing before then doing another much later. But when the market cries out for a price drop, and that the high price being the big glaring reason why your system isn't selling, something must be done.

Thankfully, you can still get BC in the other PS3 models.Umm I don't know if you noticed but from everything I've been seeing the market most certainly did NOT ask for them to remove BC.

Also, Once the current 80 GB stock runs out in Europe you won't be able to buy a system with BC.

[nadroj1485]

He meant that the 40GB limits their ability to choose what games to play. But because it has no BC, they can't play PS2 games on it and thus alienates a certain consumer set. That is, unless they feel like shelling out cash for a new/used PS2, which negates the purpose of waiting for and buying the cheaper PS3. Instead of being able to consider the 40GB in your selection, you're relegated to looking for a 60GB or settling with the even more expensive 80GB.

Actually a lot of uninformed consumers are wowed at face value will see the model with more features as a bigger bargain or "more bang for your buck". So when they see the 4GB and 8GB models sitting there, they think to themselves "for $100 more, I can double the capacity!". In essence, they are more attracted to the 8GB model because it's there and because they have the ability of choice. If people were forced to choose from only one model, it would still sell well, but being able to choose makes consumers more likely to make such costly investments. They feel that they're making the right decision with going with the more expensive model that they can get more out of. If they're going to spend $500-600, why not get the one that will justify the cost? Psychology and business go hand in hand. I'm not saying that the primary purpose for introducing a SKU with a lower price and less features is to drive consumers to purchase the more expensive model, but it's a nice little psychological trick that businesses like.


Yah guess I misread what he said in the second post, makes a little more sense now, but I still say his original assertion is wrong. You can give people all the choices in the world and unless they want something they arent going to buy it. If $600 was to much for them to pay for a system with BC today its going to be to much for them to pay for that same system tommorow. Introducing a 40gb system w/o BC isnt going to make anyone run out and buy the 80gb system for the same price they decided was to high before, they are just going to wait until the 80gb drops in price.

Price is more important to a lot of people than BC, sony isnt taking away BC from those who want it they are just giving those who dont a cheaper alternative.

[elmyra]

After reading the arguments pro and con, I guess I agree with the people saying that it's not a huge deal, as you can always buy an 80gb if you want BC. It's a shame that there won't be a model with full hardware BC going forward, though, and it'd be a seriously stupid move if they were to kill BC altogether in the future.

I'll probably just end up buying a used 60gb later to get full BC. I'd get one now, but it's just not worth $500 to me.

[The Mana Knight]

I think I know what you were going for with that last statement--- The differences in BC et all between US and UK.

It HAS to be that the GS is not going to come down in price at all, and that Sony (as of yet) cannot come up with a decent compatibility rate for software only BC (you know that they have to have some crack team working night and day on it). If UK variant BC was software only, this decision wouldn't had to have been made. There are always megaton PSN updates, however, and I do believe you may see 40 Gigs being able to play ps2 eventually....maybe...possibly.
It's the GS that won't drop in price (Implementing blu-ray is even cheaper than using the GS or EE). The GS/EE have already reached their lowest point pretty much in manufacturing costs. It's like, if Sony were to continue to use them, it would always make PS3 at least $50 more. To remove the EE, at least makes the PS3 half as much more. Also, by containing all the components needed to the BC for PS2 games, it could keep the console from becoming as small as they'd like in the future. The initial PS2 models were 50% PS1 hardware BC, but the slim model was 100% software I believe (which is one reason the slim PS2 costs way cheaper to make).

When Sony mentioned downloadable PS2 games in the future, I seriously wouldn't be surprised to see them emulate a popular games and sell them off of PSN (or maybe make some games compatible).

Oh course the PS3 will play PS1 games, but that's because it costs nothing to implement it. If there was a PS2 emulator out there which could play PS2 games (not using the GS and EE) with very few issues (at least run 80% of the games), you better bet Sony would have included BC.

It's a matter of, they badly need a SKU to get to the mass market price, and continuing to include BC (unless there's a solution to where the EE/GS isn't needed. That's one reason MS has an advantage there) will keep the costs high (the only other price that may not drop much is the HDD, but the HDD is essential for the PS3 experience).

[torifile]

I just wonder why they took out BC versus the wifi. They're probably close in price and one was a system seller (when I bought a PS3 - now sold - I bought it because of the prospect of playing PS2 games now and PS3 games later) and the other just a convenience - and one that can be added externally later!

[Ugamer_X]

Anyone care to point me to a link that says the EE+GS are seperate in the PS3? As I mentioned earlier, I'm pretty sure they've been a single unit since 2003-ish.

[buffdrew84]

sorta off topic but i was planning on picking up a ps3 this holiday season ( i just bought a ps2 slim a few months ago) My tv is a 1080i toshiba. i read a while back about issues with tvs that output in 1080i. Can anyone please explain what kinds of problems it has or kindly provide a link to some info, thanks.

[SleepyBum]

Looks like the PS3 has always had the integrated EE+GS chip, but seems they have removed the EE part and reduced the size.

Comparing Japan/USA vs Euro PS3:
http://www.beyond3d.com/content/news/151
http://www.chipworks.com/blogs.aspx?id=3252&blogid=86

EE+GS mb:
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_32.jpg

Euro mb:
http://media.ps3scene.com/images/PS3-motherboard-PAL/PS3_motherboard_9.JPG
http://media.ps3scene.com/images/PS3-motherboard-PAL/PS3_motherboard_12.JPG

You can see that the new CXD2972GB (GS only chip) is smaller than the Cell Processor and RSX. The EE+GS Combo was about same size.

Guess that GS chip is the one removed for this 40GB model, which also removed BC. So the Euro BC before was hardware+software solution.


I'm guessing they removed BC instead of WiFi is to support the other product they're trying to sell, the PSP. Think they were pushing that Remote Play feature and think that needs WiFi to connect the PS3 + PSP. I guess you probably could do it with a non-WiFi PS3 + wireless router + PSP, but think that would be difficult for normal people to configure.

[Ugamer_X]

Looks like the PS3 has always had the integrated EE+GS chip, but seems they have removed the EE part and reduced the size.

Comparing Japan/USA vs Euro PS3:
http://www.beyond3d.com/content/news/151
http://www.chipworks.com/blogs.aspx?id=3252&blogid=86

EE+GS mb:
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_32.jpg

Euro mb:
http://media.ps3scene.com/images/PS3-motherboard-PAL/PS3_motherboard_9.JPG
http://media.ps3scene.com/images/PS3-motherboard-PAL/PS3_motherboard_12.JPG

You can see that the new CXD2972GB (GS only chip) is smaller than the Cell Processor and RSX. The EE+GS Combo was about same size.

Guess that GS chip is the one removed for this 40GB model, which also removed BC. So the Euro BC before was hardware+software solution.


I'm guessing they removed BC instead of WiFi is to support the other product they're trying to sell, the PSP. Think they were pushing that Remote Play feature and think that needs WiFi to connect the PS3 + PSP. I guess you probably could do it with a non-WiFi PS3 + wireless router + PSP, but think that would be difficult for normal people to configure.


That clears it up, thanks.

[seanr1221]

Even though this 40GB doesn't have the EE, wouldn't they take the same approach as MS, and the PS3 in Europe and use software emulation?

[pete5883]

They want people to buy the more expensive, much higher profit margin unit. because its such a "bargain"
I think a more accurate description would be "the unit that is less of a huge loss."

Why do multiple SKUs get people all verklempt? I don't see what the big deal is.

[dserafin1986]

I'm just... I'm just utterly baffled here.

In fact, if anything, I applaud Sony for finding new and interesting ways to baffle me daily.


Do they even realize how much they're undercutting their own consumer security with all of this? I'm almost convinced that they don't.

It's a business decision...How are they undercutting their customer security? What the hell does that even mean...

Everyone, fanboys included need to realize these are business decisions...Who give's a shit if they have 10 sku's...There's competition out there this season, which is great for consumers...Let Sony, MS, and Nintendo worry about these issues, let's just play all the games and have fun.

[Ruahrc]

I remember reading a good article about pricing and the consumer surplus a while back. It may not be the most relevant article for this discussion but there are some good points, and it's a nat read in general. It's kind of long but bear with it.

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/CamelsandRubberDuckies.html

Ruahrc

[torifile]

It's a business decision...How are they undercutting their customer security? What the hell does that even mean...

Everyone, fanboys included need to realize these are business decisions...Who give's a shit if they have 10 sku's...There's competition out there this season, which is great for consumers...Let Sony, MS, and Nintendo worry about these issues, let's just play all the games and have fun.
I think "consumer security" means that people want to feel secure in the knowledge that their playstation investment won't be wasted if they decide to upgrade. With each iteration of the PS3, the PS2 BC has gotten poorer and poorer.

The SKU issue, in my mind, is somewhat overblown except in cases like this because the various SKUs have markedly different abilities and that's confusing to potential customers. Especially for gift-givers who may not know what's what - wives buying gifts for husbands, parents for kids, etc. - so they don't know what to get. So they buy a Wii because you can go wrong there. ;)

[propeller_head]

I think a more accurate description would be "the unit that is less of a huge loss."

Why do multiple SKUs get people all verklempt? I don't see what the big deal is.
that's not the case anymore. the part that was costing them an arm & a leg (blu-ray) costs about 5% what it did when those inital cost reports were generated. cell has also gotten cheaper through production yields as well. i wouldnt be at all surprised if they've already broken even. if they are losing money its probably much closer to $50 than the original $240 estimate. and they're easily making that up on licencing from games & BD movies, not to mention the insane profit margin they'll have down the road. just like the PS2, (2.5 years after its release it had already made up for the initial loss, & was making about ¥125.4 billion ($1.053 billion) per fiscal quarter)

[dpatel]

Looks like the PS3 has always had the integrated EE+GS chip, but seems they have removed the EE part and reduced the size.

Comparing Japan/USA vs Euro PS3:
http://www.beyond3d.com/content/news/151
http://www.chipworks.com/blogs.aspx?id=3252&blogid=86

EE+GS mb:
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_32.jpg

Euro mb:
http://media.ps3scene.com/images/PS3-motherboard-PAL/PS3_motherboard_9.JPG
http://media.ps3scene.com/images/PS3-motherboard-PAL/PS3_motherboard_12.JPG

You can see that the new CXD2972GB (GS only chip) is smaller than the Cell Processor and RSX. The EE+GS Combo was about same size.

Guess that GS chip is the one removed for this 40GB model, which also removed BC. So the Euro BC before was hardware+software solution.


I'm guessing they removed BC instead of WiFi is to support the other product they're trying to sell, the PSP. Think they were pushing that Remote Play feature and think that needs WiFi to connect the PS3 + PSP. I guess you probably could do it with a non-WiFi PS3 + wireless router + PSP, but think that would be difficult for normal people to configure.



That makes sense. I just assumed the Euro and 80GB PS3s solely used software, which is why it seemed pointless to remove that, as it would not save any sort of costs.

[Thomas96]

The thing is, BC will be forgotten as long as Sony can get additional games. I just wish that BC could be dropped after we've already gotten many many PS3 games. In actuality we're almost there..... someone posted that between now and Chrismas Sony was supposed to have at least 65 games released.

[Derrick1979]

I think "consumer security" means that people want to feel secure in the knowledge that their playstation investment won't be wasted if they decide to upgrade. With each iteration of the PS3, the PS2 BC has gotten poorer and poorer.

The SKU issue, in my mind, is somewhat overblown except in cases like this because the various SKUs have markedly different abilities and that's confusing to potential customers. Especially for gift-givers who may not know what's what - wives buying gifts for husbands, parents for kids, etc. - so they don't know what to get. So they buy a Wii because you can go wrong there. ;)


I don't really see the concern anymore about the BC for the PS2 those slims are so small you could easily keep one around with no hassles..and that might be what Sony is looking at.. Xbox made you DL the BC with the systems and not to many people cried about that, as for you saying with the Wii you cant go wrong there......


Hmm sure it is fully BC but you need G-cube memory cards which if your just buying G-cube stuff now due to buying a Wii those things can be hard to come by.
You need to use the Wii mote to select the channel then go back to a C-cube controller....

On top of that lol by next year people are going to have a whole closet full of Wii controllers and add on's for the Wii-motes...

My own opinion on the Wii was yeah it was great to be able to play older games but the little annoying hassle every time got to me along with trying to find memory cards.. To each his own though I had a Wii, and 360 and ended up getting rid of both and remain happy with my PS2..

[torifile]

I just meant there's only one SKU for people to pick so gift-givers can feel assured they're buying the "right" model.

Derrick - I forgot to respond to your PM but they're both gone. I'll update my list. :)

[aihuman]

Isnt backward compatibiliy software based?Why wouldnt Sony include it?

[fathamburger]

Well I do have a PS2 (working last I checked) and I'm pissed about the backwards compatibility. It doesn't matter if you have a PS2 or not, the point is that it is aging hardware and will break. I have 3 PS2 games I still want to play, Yakuza 2, Harvey Birdman and that Rule of Roses (forget if thats the correct title) game so it matters to me.

I was looking forward to a $399 PS3 this christmas with the bluray movie deal but they've lost my money over this unless the 60gb drops in price any time soon. I also have a 360 so I can get most of the multiplat releases I wanted. The PS3 barely has Heavenly Sword and Folklore and I'm not eager to buy any of those any time soon. The GT5 demo was the thing I was looking forward most to.

Fuck you Sony, I Hope that $20 savings was worth it in costing you a sale.

[Blackout]

I just wonder why they took out BC versus the wifi. They're probably close in price and one was a system seller (when I bought a PS3 - now sold - I bought it because of the prospect of playing PS2 games now and PS3 games later) and the other just a convenience - and one that can be added externally later!

I could give two shits about BC...but wifi, that is a reason why I am hesitant to pick up a 360. I don't want to shell out extra cash just to get online.

[bigdaddy]

I remember 18 or so months ago when Sony said that having more than one model of console would confuse people. How many does Sony have now? 7...8?

Stupid Sony, they are just asking for it.

And $500 is more than my rent.

[Mechafenris]

I remember 18 or so months ago when Sony said that having more than one model of console would confuse people. How many does Sony have now? 7...8?



I think the context of that (I'm purely speculating) was the HDD-less console v. the HDD-enabled one from Microsoft. But it's Sony, i'm simply giving them a benefit of the doubt... heh.

Sony's only really got an 80, 60, 20, and now a 40. I think the 60 and 20 are comparably close... and the 80 being almost the same, save the additional hardware emulation in the 60 and 20. To chrome or not to chrome ... almost like faceplates. :)

I think we're seeing that the HDD is becoming more mandatory on MS's side, and to the extent that games use it is becoming increasingly apparent. Trouble is, it's not a nice user-replaceable unit (that you can get from NewEgg, or somewhere), and you have to pay the "microsoft premium" to get it... But for those who know they need it, it's built into the costs of the Elite/Premiums.. *shrug*

Of course, as always, YMMV. :) Might cause explosive diarrhea...

[mykevermin]

I was thinking, tonight, of how in the hell Rock Band is going to work on the 360 and PS3. If you need 4 USB ports for all the peripherals, then if you own a 360 or 40GB PS3, you'll have to buy a port expansion. Not cool.

[orimental]

According to the Wiki entry, the 360 bundle will include a USB hub in the package. No such luck for PS3 and PS2 owners, but they do come with wireless guitars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Band_%28video_game%29#Bundle_and_pricing

[gunm]

Hm, I guess I'm glad I picked up the 60GB version, then. Get 'em while the gettin's good, I suppose.

[mykevermin]

According to the Wiki entry, the 360 bundle will include a USB hub in the package. No such luck for PS3 and PS2 owners, but they do come with wireless guitars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Band_%28video_game%29#Bundle_and_pricing

The guitar is wireless on PS3, but includes a "dongle," so something is still plugged into the USB port when using it. So, if you buy the 40GB PS3 and Rock Band, you'll need to provide your own USB hub.

This 40GB system is just looking like worse and worse an idea the more I think about it. People buy consoles in order to avoid the sort of "will this work on my system?" crap that PC gamers put up with. I hope it doesn't come to the states at all, unless it's changed so that the only difference from the 80GB is hard drive size.

[ryanbph]

well there is the possibility that rock band didn't announce a usb hub for the ps3 version as they didn't want to break an nda about the upcoming model. It is very possible to hear ea announce next week that a hub will come w/ the ps3 version as well.

[orimental]

well there is the possibility that rock band didn't announce a usb hub for the ps3 version as they didn't want to break an nda about the upcoming model. It is very possible to hear ea announce next week that a hub will come w/ the ps3 version as well.

Yeah. I'm sure they didn't know about the new 40GB model until after they made the initial announcement about the different Rock Band packages.

[jer7583]

The 360 has four USB ports, two in front, two in back.. not the most convenient, but you'd still be able to play without a hub. But not with a wireless adapter..

The problem is Sony is now removing things that cannot be upgraded to like the EE+GS. The memory card ports aren't such a big deal. Keeping Wi-Fi is a good idea, and the 360 should have had it. Although I'm told you can use any generic Wi-Fi bridge, not just the 360 specific one.

[gunm]

Yeah, I'm using a Netgear wireless bridge w/my 360. Built-in wireless is defintely better, though.

[Nogib]

The 360 has four USB ports, two in front, two in back.. not the most convenient, but you'd still be able to play without a hub. But not with a wireless adapter.


Uhhh...360 has only three USB ports. Two in front, one in back. Hence the need for a hub for Rock Band.

[SteveGo]

Uhhh...360 has only three USB ports. Two in front, one in back. Hence the need for a hub for Rock Band.

If you have the Hd-dvd for the 360, then you have four, b/c the hd-dvd has two on the back.

[NamPaehc]

The guitar is wireless on PS3, but includes a "dongle," so something is still plugged into the USB port when using it. So, if you buy the 40GB PS3 and Rock Band, you'll need to provide your own USB hub.

This 40GB system is just looking like worse and worse an idea the more I think about it. People buy consoles in order to avoid the sort of "will this work on my system?" crap that PC gamers put up with. I hope it doesn't come to the states at all, unless it's changed so that the only difference from the 80GB is hard drive size.

I don't get that though, why won't it work on the PS3?

I thought giving people choices was a good thing.

[mykevermin]

Why won't what work? Rock Band or PS2 games?

[zerolens]

Not going to bother looking up old quotes but I'm sure Sony did something similar when rumble was pulled out. And now rumble is going to be offered. Stop taking everything literally with what these companies say.

They need to clear out old stock. Europe is phasing out on the 60GB right? NA has their own 60GB to clear out and some 80GB to sell. No one thought the 80GB was worth $100 more than the 60GB, how were you going to justify it if the 40GB had equal BC with the 80GB? Hardly no one would buy the 80GB. Stores are slowly getting rid of the 60GB now and that's with new stock being cut off.

If you don't see PS2 BC announced for the 40GB in the next year then you might have a reason to worry, but if it's not ready yet then it could be to their advantage to make the 60GB and 80GB versions look like a deal so they can get rid of old stock easier. If they announce it's coming some people will simply wait for a list to see how good it is, this way some people will jump the gun on the more expensive versions.

Edit: IMO the big flaw with this strategy (assuming this is what they're doing) is it might push someone to the 360 instead of the PS3 this Christmas so sony loses a customer. Otherwise this is actually a decent way to go about it. Rumble is supposedly delayed until next year (except Japan I think) so some people will wait anyway, this gives people an extra nudge to buy now since BC is at stake on the surface.

Announcing BC on the 40GB next year along with the release of Home and rumble with MGS4, GTA4, etc. being released will keep the PS3 looking good.

[zerolens]

And did anyone stop to think what they'll do next year when rumble is released and you have 40GB versions collecting dust on the shelf that have non-rumble controllers packed in? How on earth are you going to sell those when rumble comes along? Same way with how you're going to sell 60GB and 80GB versions if 40GB had acceptable BC? Sony is getting their act together with making online and Home better, probably getting BC in order, getting rumble in the controllers, etc. You have to pump up the more expensive versions somehow to get rid of them. Retailers don't want to be stuck with old stock and sony wants them sold too.

[elwood731]

I think you're over thinking Sony a bit here. This is a disastrous PR move simply to "clear out stock." Sony could simply slash the price of the 60/80GB models if that was their goal. No, this is a long term solution. Now, it doesn't mean that we won't ever see BC back, but look at MS, they're hardly trying hard to get those last few titles working.

I would wager they will soon stop work on the BC actually featured in software in the 80gb models. So, if you want it, pick up a 60gb version soon. Or else pick up a PS2 later.

[BattleChicken]

I think you're over thinking Sony a bit here. This is a disastrous PR move simply to "clear out stock." Sony could simply slash the price of the 60/80GB models if that was their goal. No, this is a long term solution. Now, it doesn't mean that we won't ever see BC back, but look at MS, they're hardly trying hard to get those last few titles working.

I would wager they will soon stop work on the BC actually featured in software in the 80gb models. So, if you want it, pick up a 60gb version soon. Or else pick up a PS2 later.
I also agree that if you like the 40 gig PS3, that you are a terrorist -- that is a very good point!

:-\"

[Reality's Fringe]

"According to The Hollywood Reporter, an "industry source" of theirs says the North American 40GB PS3 model will release on Nov. 2 at $399. Another source reveals Sony has been asking stores to try and clear out existing PS3 inventory by the November date. Just like the controversial European 40GB PS3 model, the North American model will also allegedly not be backwards compatible with the PS2."

=(. I really don't want to buy a PS2 again. Why do I need to drag the sumbitch out every time I want to play an old game. I don't have to drag out an old P3 computer to play fucking Red alert 2 (I'm not sure about Vista in that regard, though). BC is important to me. The only reason I'm not really faulting MS is because I have all of 4 Xbox games. If Nintendo didn't release the Wii with BC for the Cube, I probably wouldn't have bought it outright.

Guess I need to start saving before the 60's are gone.

[mykevermin]

I believe I read somewhere that the French 40GB is getting one a' them popular soccer games (Project Evolution?) bundled with it. Here's to hoping the US gets something, be it a BR of Spiderman or one of the copies of Lair before it becomes "E.T. for a new century."

[GizmoGC]

I think you're over thinking Sony a bit here. This is a disastrous PR move simply to "clear out stock." Sony could simply slash the price of the 60/80GB models if that was their goal. No, this is a long term solution. Now, it doesn't mean that we won't ever see BC back, but look at MS, they're hardly trying hard to get those last few titles working.

I would wager they will soon stop work on the BC actually featured in software in the 80gb models. So, if you want it, pick up a 60gb version soon. Or else pick up a PS2 later.

The 360 never launched with 100% BC. PS3 did.
PS3 now has 0% BC while Xbox 360 has around 65/70%, and most of the other games not BC yet are old sports games.

[KingBroly]

I'm glad I have a PS3, but I doubt they'll be a PS4 now. I really, really believe that.

Now this Sony exec is saying early adopters will feel cheated. That's quite the contrary in this situation. Early adopters feel overjoyed that they have the superior consoles.

[Furashu]

they should just add in 2 rumble controllers with the 40gb, thatd solve everything!

[hufferstl]

Imagine how confusing buying a used console is going to be in 5 years.

[Apossum]

Imagine how confusing buying a used console is going to be in 5 years.


"I'd like a 43.6 gb PS3 slim with partial PS2 BC, 3 ethernet ports, the zip drive, a blu-ray drive that doesn't play DVDs, skim milk please, and hold the six axis controls."

[zerolens]

Disastrous? Everything sony does is disastrous to the hardcore nerds on the internet. Wouldn't you consider 360 reliability "disastrous" too? I remember those same hardcore nerds tearing into the 360 because the hard drive wasn't standard. People got over it.

BC on the 360 and 80GB PS3, and everything in Europe has always been a game of russian roulette. Little Timmy on Christmas morning who had no clue what games can play would be rolling the dice with these machines on whether it'll even work or the performance was acceptable.

My main point is don't take what they say at face value. Rumble for some people was a deal breaker and only until a few weeks ago did sony finally confirm it was coming. Saying BC is coming on the 40GB, people might likely sit back and wait anyway for a list to see how good it is. What good is it to buy the 40GB when BC is important to you when you have no clue whatsoever what it will ultimately play? Withholding that info will help sell 60GB and 80GB consoles in NA and Europe and still give them value. A 40GB with BC on par with the 80GB (which is far from perfect) would kill any chances of selling them IMO.

Not saying it's going to happen, but give it a year and then come back and make the complaint. People paid more money for the Elite because it offered more value to them. If BC is important to the person, pay the extra money.

[GizmoGC]

Imagine how confusing buying a used console is going to be in 5 years.

Especially since people can just add their own in....How would you know if that 100GB PS3 is a '60GB' or a '40GB'? Is there any way to tell besides memorizing the colors of the logo or tray?

Holidays at stores will be fun:

"Hi, I'd like a PS3!'
'Sure. We have the 20GB, its $449. We have the 40GB for $399 with Spider-Man 3 Blu-ray inside but no BC. We have a 60GB PS3 for $499 with nothing but can play 100% of the PS2 and PS1 library, and the 80GB with Motorstorm that can play most of the PS2 games, but not as good as the 60GB".

"...HOLY....SHIT...."

Xbox is just as bad, but its only real difference will be if t comes with a hard drive and what size (since the core is rumored to be replaced with HDMI for the 'Arcade system'). Wii still sits at one SKU.....for now.

[mykevermin]

PS3 now has 0% BC while Xbox 360 has around 65/70%

:lol:

ONE model of the PS3 has 0% BC; the rest do have it.

And if you believe that the 360 has 70% BC, I'll bet you believe that HD DVD has 300% marketshare, too. :lol:

Holidays at stores will be fun:

"Hi, I'd like a PS3!'
'Sure. We have the 20GB, its $449. We have the 40GB for $399 with Spider-Man 3 Blu-ray inside but no BC. We have a 60GB PS3 for $499 with nothing but can play 100% of the PS2 and PS1 library, and the 80GB with Motorstorm that can play most of the PS2 games, but not as good as the 60GB".

"...HOLY....SHIT...."

Hmm. Unlikely. Here's how it will work in your average customer/employee interaction:

Customer: "PS3 DURRRRRRRRRR...." *spittle*
Employee: "PS3 EXPANSIVE DURRRRRRRRR..." *scans UPC*
Customer: "PS3 DURRRRRRRRRR...."

Don't believe me? Sit in one a' them rocking game chairs at BB for an hour and eavesdrop on shoppers and employees.

[BattleChicken]

:lol:
Hmm. Unlikely. Here's how it will work in your average customer/employee interaction:

Customer: "PS3 DURRRRRRRRRR...." *spittle*
Employee: "PS3 EXPANSIVE DURRRRRRRRR..." *scans UPC*
Customer: "PS3 DURRRRRRRRRR...."

Don't believe me? Sit in one a' them rocking game chairs at BB for an hour and eavesdrop on shoppers and employees.

Maybe in ye old England, in the states people would just get confused and melt down... then shoot a hole through a ballot in anger.. or something...

[GizmoGC]

:lol:

ONE model of the PS3 has 0% BC; the rest do have it.

And if you believe that the 360 has 70% BC, I'll bet you believe that HD DVD has 300% marketshare, too. :lol:



Hmm. Unlikely. Here's how it will work in your average customer/employee interaction:

Customer: "PS3 DURRRRRRRRRR...." *spittle*
Employee: "PS3 EXPANSIVE DURRRRRRRRR..." *scans UPC*
Customer: "PS3 DURRRRRRRRRR...."

Don't believe me? Sit in one a' them rocking game chairs at BB for an hour and eavesdrop on shoppers and employees.

Anyone have any idea what the BC % is for the 360?

Yes, as of right now there is 1 PS3 with no BC. If you think this won't eventually carry into the 80GB line...you're nuts. 20GB is all but gone, 60GB is getting there...80GB is software emulation...and when the 100GB replaces that, I'm sure it will be 0% like the 40GB one.

[dallow]

I thought it was at best 50% BC on 360 at last count or less.

Not 70% though!

[FoxHoundADAM]

I thought it was at best 50% BC on 360 at last count or less.

Not 70% though!I'ts closer to 75%, sadly I own a gmae that is in the 25% :( (Capcom Collection).

[GizmoGC]

I'ts closer to 75%, sadly I own a gmae that is in the 25% :( (Capcom Collection).

An official stats? I imagine 65/70% is about right, and Im sure 15% of the 'not BC' is sports crap anyway.

[regisphilbi0]

My thoughts: Yes, Microsoft was stupid doing no hard drive/yes hard drive. They SHOULD had made on console (the Pro) and then added Elite later. And their reliability is disastrous (My 360 just got sent in the week after Halo 3 came out) But Sony is even MORE confusing. MS does a good job of differentiating between the SKUs. One is barebones; one has more accessories; one has the same as before but a larger hard drive. It is simple, they advertise each seperately, etc. They have made the difference known. For Sony, though... Wow. 4 Sku's in less than 1 year is impressive, and VERY confusing to the customer. They aren't different enough, either. I think people will just get confused. Then they backtrack on BC, keep it a litte and take it away, no rumble, but wait, we have rumble, just much later, etc. Craziness. It will definitely drive people to the 360, I think.

[dallow]

I don't think so regis.
The sales person can just read the box to them, or they can read it themselves. and they can just buy it.
Like any other product.

Consoles are still much less confusing than computer configurations, or even TV types to the average person.

[elwood731]

I don't think so regis.
The sales person can just read the box to them, or they can read it themselves. and they can just buy it.
Like any other product.

Consoles are still much less confusing than computer configurations, or even TV types to the average person.
I don't think he's wrong at all. Sony have made buying a console more confusing than it has ever been before. Granted, consoles are more complex than ever before, but still, this is getting ridiculous. It isn't that there's 4 different PS3s with different hard drives or games packed in, but different levels of BC, different hardware features (WiFi, MC reader, etc.) and likely soon (well, spring) there will be some with rumble controllers. This is a bigger mess than any console has seen before with the exception of the 3DO with the different manufacturers it had.

And no, I am not a Sony hater. I just hate this mess, and don't worry, I'm none too happy with MS either. They're just slightly lesser an evil when it comes to this than Sony. The PS3 is starting to look more and more like a computer setup with differing systems and incompatibilities. And isn't this why most people are console gamers, to avoid the hassles of PC gaming? Who would have thought it would be Sony and not MS to bring it home.

[Besko]

I think the backward compatibility is not the best thing on the world ... So I think PS3 , didn`t lost anything ... Everyone who loves their PS2 games can keep their PS2 and play games on it ...
I think 40GB PS3 is only good thing for Sony. But I was shocked by the decision to say `bye-bye` to the 60GB version of the PS3 which is not the best decision they could make. I have 60 GB version and what is going to happen now with my warranty ????
I am sorry if there are any mistakes , I am Slovenian. Slovenia is near Italy in Europe , so ...
Regards to all CAGCast forum ...

[mykevermin]

An official stats? I imagine 65/70% is about right, and Im sure 15% of the 'not BC' is sports crap anyway.

42% (394 titles out of roughly 938 Xbox releases) work, with varying degrees of success, on the Xbox 360. Going by your "65/70%" rate, you overestimated the BC rate by a considerable margin (148% over at the minimum).

[dpatel]

Going by your "65/70%" rate, you overestimated the BC rate by a considerable margin (148% over at the minimum).

:lol: And he faults Sony for inflating numbers.

[-Never4ever-]

42% (394 titles out of roughly 938 Xbox releases) work, with varying degrees of success, on the Xbox 360. Going by your "65/70%" rate, you overestimated the BC rate by a considerable margin (148% over at the minimum).

But how many of those titles were sports / demo titles, and ergo, completely dismiss-able? ;)

[mykevermin]

Oh, hell...I'm not lookin' *that* up. :lol:

[dpatel]

My thoughts: Yes, Microsoft was stupid doing no hard drive/yes hard drive. They SHOULD had made on console (the Pro) and then added Elite later. And their reliability is disastrous (My 360 just got sent in the week after Halo 3 came out) But Sony is even MORE confusing. MS does a good job of differentiating between the SKUs. One is barebones; one has more accessories; one has the same as before but a larger hard drive. It is simple, they advertise each seperately, etc. They have made the difference known. For Sony, though... Wow. 4 Sku's in less than 1 year is impressive, and VERY confusing to the customer. They aren't different enough, either. I think people will just get confused. Then they backtrack on BC, keep it a litte and take it away, no rumble, but wait, we have rumble, just much later, etc. Craziness. It will definitely drive people to the 360, I think.

I think Sony really fucked up BC. I couldn't really care less what the % is, but just keep it constant. At this rate, it looks like all future PS3s will have 0% BC (They should all still be able to play PS1 games though right?). This is what is most confusing about their multiple SKUs. It doesn't affect me at all, since I have the near perfect BC model and I still have my PS2 hooked up, so I'm okay with it, but taking it out completely was a mistake, in my opinion. Thing is, more people care about price than they do BC, which is why we are seeing this. The sales gained from this drop in price will be much more than the sales lost due to the removal of BC.

The pack-ins and different sized HDDs don't really bother me too much, as they essentially don't really affect the core gaming/movie playing portion of the PS3. Aside from the BC variations, I don't think the multiple SKUs are all that bad. Given the rate at which HDDs drop in price, this may occur almost every year too. I believe their reasoning for using 80GB instead of 60GBs is that the 60GB are becoming more uncommon, and are about the same price as 80GBs to produce. I'm guessing the same is true regarding the 40GB and 20GB.

[mykevermin]

Here's the thing, though: I don't like the variation in system capability any more than many of you...but a few pages back, you'll see that only 37% of would-be PS3 owners are even aware of BC, so to act like this is catastrophic is overkill. A few more than 1 in 3 owners know about it at all, and that's not even getting into what portion of that 37% care about BC...some do, and some don't, as evidenced by this thread.

[dpatel]

Here's the thing, though: I don't like the variation in system capability any more than many of you...but a few pages back, you'll see that only 37% of would-be PS3 owners are even aware of BC, so to act like this is catastrophic is overkill. A few more than 1 in 3 owners know about it at all, and that's not even getting into what portion of that 37% care about BC...some do, and some don't, as evidenced by this thread.

I agree that the majority of gamers are not going to care. People on gaming message boards represent such a small portion of the entire gaming population. The majority of the population is represented by the casuals who probably could not care less about BC and would prefer cheaper models (as evidenced by the uproar regarding MSs shoddy BC when the competition, at the time, was offering perfect or near perfect. While it was an unpopular move at the time, it does not seem to have hindered them too much). I am part of the minority that is against the removal of BC, but, from a business standpoint, and can totally see why they did do this and why it will help them more than hurt them.

[Stryffe2004]

I am just glad I got my 2 60 GB PS3. They seem to be the only one that will have all the features - Emotion Engine, Wi-Fi, card reader and mid range hard drive size. Throw in the 5 free movies and you get a dcent deal. If you want to get a PS3 grab a 60 GB while you can. Still seems to be the best deal.

[GizmoGC]

42% (394 titles out of roughly 938 Xbox releases) work, with varying degrees of success, on the Xbox 360. Going by your "65/70%" rate, you overestimated the BC rate by a considerable margin (148% over at the minimum).

Like I said, I had no idea but thought it was 65/70%. Its not like MS promised 100% BC at launch (well, they did for Halo and Halo 2). Sony, on the other hand, did. MS never stripped away the ability for new systems to have BC. You either bought the core with no BC in the box, or the Premium with BC. Now, you have 4 different PS3's all with different options and abilities. Can't wait to see how an average Target salesperson handles these questions when I send my girlfriend to ask. :lol:

[elmyra]

"According to The Hollywood Reporter, an "industry source" of theirs says the North American 40GB PS3 model will release on Nov. 2 at $399. Another source reveals Sony has been asking stores to try and clear out existing PS3 inventory by the November date. Just like the controversial European 40GB PS3 model, the North American model will also allegedly not be backwards compatible with the PS2."
I wonder what they expect stores to do to clear out existing inventory? :-k

Guess I need to start saving before the 60's are gone.
Yeah, I've decided that the 60GB is the only one I'm interested in if I'm going to get one. The thing is, I still can't justify paying $500 for the console. I guess I have to either blow my GameRush credit to get one (I was planning to use it for an Elite 360 when the bundles come out later this month) or hope that I can find a used 60GB PS3 for a decent price later. Bah.

[GizmoGC]

I agree that the majority of gamers are not going to care. People on gaming message boards represent such a small portion of the entire gaming population. The majority of the population is represented by the casuals who probably could not care less about BC and would prefer cheaper models (as evidenced by the uproar regarding MSs shoddy BC when the competition, at the time, was offering perfect or near perfect. While it was an unpopular move at the time, it does not seem to have hindered them too much). I am part of the minority that is against the removal of BC, but, from a business standpoint, and can totally see why they did do this and why it will help them more than hurt them.

I can agree that most hard core gamers will not care. They know the 40GB has no BC and they will either buy it, or pass for a different configuration. The problem comes from the average joe who buys the 40GB expecting it to be BC like his PS2 was. When he finds out its not...its gonna cause issues.

[dpatel]

Can't wait to see how an average Target salesperson handles these questions when I send my girlfriend to ask. :lol:

You have too much free time :-P

[dpatel]

I can agree that most hard core gamers will not care. They know the 40GB has no BC and they will either buy it, or pass for a different configuration. The problem comes from the average joe who buys the 40GB expecting it to be BC like his PS2 was. When he finds out its not...its gonna cause issues.

Agree, but I believe that the majority of 'average joes' out there don't care about BC. There is no doubt that plenty will get screwed over thinking their model will be the same as other models out there (as far as BC is concerned), but not enough to make severely impact Sony and their profit, which, unfortunately, is all a company cares about.

I'm wondering how many of these 'average joes' actually knows that Sony promised 100% BC. I remember some article stating that about 40% don't know about its BD capabilities (something Sony has pushed from the start, and something clearly labeled on the box), so I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of 'average joes' won't ever know they are being gypped (sp?) on BC.

[sparklecopy]

how are they saving money by removing software enable bc? hardware I can understand but software based? that doesn't make a lick of sense?

[Dr Mario Kart]

The answer is that the BC wasnt entirely hardware based before. Even without the Emotion Engine, the Graphics Synthesizer was there, and now its not. Something like that anyway.

They could develop a true software only BC, but they dont want to. They've stated that they want to put that money to use elsewhere.

[b3b0p]

how are they saving money by removing software enable bc? hardware I can understand but software based? that doesn't make a lick of sense?
You have to pay extremely skilled developers a shit load of money to engineer, write, and continually support and update it.

It's cheaper to include the hardware, I promise.

[Identity Fraud]

You have to pay extremely skilled developers a shit load of money to engineer, write, and continually support and update it.

It's cheaper to include the hardware, I promise.

It seems with the 80GB and all the Euro versions of the PS3 that the GS chip is enough to support alot of games. I wonder if they'll still support that kind of BC, it seems the PS3 is more than able to emulate the EE Chip.

[Apossum]

You have to pay extremely skilled developers a shit load of money to engineer, write, and continually support and update it.

It's cheaper to include the hardware, I promise.


but they've already spent the larger chunk of change getting much of the PS2's library up and running in software form.

[FatBoyInside]

Ongoing update on the domestic U.S. release ...

For $399.99 you will receive:
- PS3 System w/ 40gb HDD
- 2 USB ports (downgraded from 4)
- No multi-slot flash card reader
- No backward compatibility for PS1 or PS2 titles
- Black casing w/ silver trim finish (identical to the 60gb version)
- 1 Regular SIXAXIS controller (rumble DS3 won't be out til Spring '08)
- Spiderman 3 movie on blu-ray
- 5 select blu-ray titles via mail-in promotion
- Arrival date: Nov. 2, 2007


More details will be forthcoming as the 40gb version will roll out in Europe this week (Oct.10, 2007), hopefully. Time to save my pennies.

[orimental]

Are you sure no BC for PS1 titles? What about the PS1 titles from the PSN store?

[gunm]

Same deal with PSone. The PS1 games from the PSN store were designed specifically for PS3/PSP, so no change there.

Why spend any effort or money to make free BC, when they can just sell it on PSN. It also means PS2s can continue to sit in people's homes and Sony can continue to sell the hardware which still generates a per unit profit. Unlike PS3s.

[dpatel]

I heard the 40GB is still almost 100% compatible with PS1 games (disc based and from PSN). Not sure if that is true.

[Vanigan]

Actually, I've heard the same thing. I think it could be because the PS1 is such an old system that it's possible to emulate the whole system on a much higher level and still have it run well. Meanwhile, trying to emulate the PS2 at a high level just doesn't yield acceptable performance.

So, instead they'd have to emulate it on a low level, game by game basis, and that's a huge library of games to emulate.

On the other hand, while I know petitions don't work, perhaps we can start some sort of campaign to get Sony to dedicate a small team to doing full emulation on some classic PS2 games. It could be something simple like gettings gaming news sites that cover the PS3 to post polls to see if people want Sony to do purely software based emulation.

They could start out small, just take the code from some PS2 emulator online and start there with a small list of confirmed games that work fine.

[MarkMan]

White PS3 am here....

http://high-scoreonline.com/2007/10/08/japan-40gb-ps3-dual-shock-3-tidbits/

http://highscoreonline.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/ps303.jpg

[opportunity777]

:rofl:

Wow, I'm extremely happy with my purchase of a 20 GB system with EE now.

I just read the details on this hack job of a system. WTF is the point of buying this? It's a total bust. Why not just dry fuck customers up the ass and make them pay $400 for it? These new systems Sony is trolling out SUCK. I thought as a system matures, then its abilities should actually IMPROVE. Both MS & Nintendo have a pretty decent grasp on this concept.

I thought Sony couldn't do any worse with their mismanagement this generation, but I was wrong. For every mistake MS makes, Sony makes about at least a dozen. Even The King of WTF, Nintendo, is laughing at this.

I can only hope some decent games come out by the end of the year. I only have four games taking permanent residence in my PS3 library, and I have gotten bored or completed them. I think I might try Folklore out. Back to playing MP:P3 for the Wii and Bioshock on 360 :)

You have to pay extremely skilled developers a shit load of money to engineer, write, and continually support and update it.

It's cheaper to include the hardware, I promise.

I mentioned this in another thread too. By removing the EE in the first place, Sony had to change assembly processes, which has its own costs. Sony's strategy has gotten worse in the last year, which I didn't think was possible. I don't even know what their strategy is anymore.

[NamPaehc]

I like my electronics to be black (waiting on that black wii!), but I am glad to see they are offering something new in Japan with this version. I've seen that Sony gives local folks power to do what they want in terms of the systems after they give them the specs to better cater to their region. I wonder how this'll play out there.

[gunm]

I just read the details on this hack job of a system. WTF is the point of buying this? It's a total bust. Why not just dry fuck customers up the ass and make them pay $400 for it? These new systems Sony is trolling out SUCK. I thought as a system matures, then its abilities should actually IMPROVE. Both MS & Nintendo have a pretty decent grasp on this concept.

I thought Sony couldn't do any worse with their mismanagement this generation, but I was wrong. For every mistake MS makes, Sony makes about at least a dozen. Even The King of WTF, Nintendo, is laughing at this.

I mentioned this in another thread too. By removing the EE in the first place, Sony had to change assembly processes, which has its own costs. Sony's strategy has gotten worse in the last year, which I didn't think was possible. I don't even know what their strategy is anymore.

The system Sony is currently selling for $500 is selling at a loss--a rather large one at that. With consumers clearly not backing the high pricing tier Sony expected them to, who can blame them for wanting to streamline the console and change manufacturing in a way that will allow them to produce cheaper systems in both the short and long term? I don't think whatever costs are associated with taking the EE and the PS2 graphics chip out are more than what they will save by not having to put that shit in there, either.

The way I see it, Sony got rid of the things that were less "necessary" like the multiformat memory card slots and extra USB ports (while nice to have, most games aren't four player, and you can always add on the extra ports/memory slots via some add-on device later), and kept things they think consumers want like the wireless networking, so they can put more consoles into peoples' homes and stop losing so much money in the process. There's nothing absurd or ill-conceived about that. I dare say it's good stategy.

Microsoft is in a different boat. They had to change shit because their shit is broke...or will break sooner than intended. Also, they are in more direct competition with Sony due to their support of HD graphics and HD media (hence the addition of HDMI). Regardless of Sony's difficulties, it'd be daft of MS to leave their console the way it launched.

I don't see Nintendo doing anything to improve the Wii at this time.

[opportunity777]

The system Sony...

I would say the multi-card reader was useless. The Pro Duo format and a PS2 mem card reader would have been sufficient.

I would say the strategy has been awful from beginning to now.

The Bluray was an unfortunate unnecessary extra. They could have put out the Bluray format, see how it faired and then incorporated in the following generation.

Or ... Sony could have waited until this year to bring their product to market and had an exclusive window for launch. The system would have been cheaper to manufacture. Developers would have another year with the already difficult SDK for the system. Instead, Sony created an overly expensive product to compete against the lower price Wii and the superior libray of the 360. Sony felt "booming" sales and "exclusive" rights on certain game licenses would cover any loss they had anticipated by bringing out such an expensive piece of hardware. The name would sell itself. It did not.

I think taking an already expensive product and turning into ass is a step backward. Also, the PS1 and PS2 game libraries helped extend the puny PS3 library. It is funny how a Sony spokesman / corporate employee flat out said consumers do not respond to multiple SKU, but now they decide to release a new SKU in Nov.

Also, Sony has already shown they are incapable of accurately (within a certain amount of basis points) of predicting their costs and revenues for this generation. I do not trust their estimates, as far as, how much in costs they will save by shelving a bunch of their features. Secondly, if they are going to continue BC with the software emulation on the 80 GB, then it's another cost they are running simultaneously to changes in their assembly process. The whole thing is a bunch of crap. I wish I could see the financials for myself.

Either way, I don't care if they turn it around because I have no intention on selling the PS3 at this time. I play my 360 and Wii (which I hadn't played in months, thank you for Paper Mario, Metroid Prime 3, etc.) enough right now. I just hope the wait for quality PS3 games is worth it.

[NamPaehc]

Secondly, if they are going to continue BC with the software emulation on the 80 GB, then it's another cost they are running simultaneously to changes in their assembly process.

Actually, there is word Sony my want to save on the costs to have their teams work on making sure games with with the BC and scrape it all together.

[leveskikesko]

400 is still way too much for me since I already got the 360 and Wii.

Sony, make it worth 300 dollars and then we'll talk. Maybe I'll be able to snag it for less than that used without all the accessories somewhere though....

As far as BC goes, I'm not that lazy that I can't get my ps2 out...although it still kinda sucks.

Even though I have a 360, the ps3 actually seems a lot better to me based on its future releases. It stuns me that people are ignoring IMO the vastly superior titles on the ps3 because of the price.

I thought everyone hated Halo...ah well...I'll never get gamers!

[Thomas96]

-you really can live without the memory card slots... I bet you can use a flash stick for a memory card.
-the usb slots, you only need to charge the controllers.. so if you have 4 then you may need a charger. But playing wise.. you can stil hook up 7 controllers via bluetooth.
-BC - not really needed if you have one that's working(ps2) I don't believe that people are playing that much PS2 once they buy PS3...

-

-

[lanzarlaluna]

I don't believe that people are playing that much PS2 once they buy PS3.Actually, a large number of people are playing PS2 games on their PS3. The upscaling looks tons better on my HDTV, and I was able to move my PS2 to the other room. There weren't any games I wanted at the time of my purchase (not much has changed since I bought it =\ ), but when they announced they were discontinuing the 60GB with the EE, I ran out and bought it. Had Sony never removed the PS2 chips, I would've waited a long ass time to buy a PS3.

[The Mana Knight]

-you really can live without the memory card slots... I bet you can use a flash stick for a memory card.
-the usb slots, you only need to charge the controllers.. so if you have 4 then you may need a charger. But playing wise.. you can stil hook up 7 controllers via bluetooth.
-BC - not really needed if you have one that's working. I don't believe that people are playing that much PS2 once they buy PS3...

-

-Yeah, I use USB flash on my PS3.

As for USB slots, I no longer use my PS3 to charge controllers. I find it easier just using my PC instead (while I'm on it) and do other things while it charges (charges quicker too).

Well, I'll admit I used BC a lot early on, but that was because I owned very few PS3 games and had an SDTV. Once I got an HDTV and more PS3 games, I just can't go back to PS2 anymore. Every PS2 game I buy (except for DDR SuperNOVA 2) goes unplayed.

[mykevermin]

I don't think the introduction of the 40GB system is an indicator that BC is dead. I also don't think that it's wise to buy the 40GB system if you think you'll want BC at some point in the future.

It's pretty clear, folks. None of you are the average dumbass consumer. You all know the following:

1) The 60GB system has full BC, but is being discontinued
2) The 80GB system has 50-55% BC, with titles being added incrementally
3) The 40GB system has NO BC, and it doesn't look like it ever will

You, as a consumer, are armed with knowledge. If you demand BC, but are waiting for a PS3 price drop before buying, guess what? You're gonna wait longer. If you can live without BC, or never planned on getting rid of your PS2, guess what? You can dive right into the 40GB for a good price. If you insist on full BC, then you're part of a few people whose consumer hands are TRULY tied right now, since quantities are finite and will disappear at some point.

Use your knowledge to select a PS3 you want, or shaddup and wait for another price drop. There is NO indication that BC will ever disappear from the expensive model of the PS3, and its foolish to think they will.

[opportunity777]

Actually, there is word Sony my want to save on the costs to have their teams work on making sure games with with the BC and scrape it all together.

I have seen this rumor as well. They will still have to keep some sort of development / software engineer team for emulation of PSN titles, so BC won't be completely scrapped from their costs.

Maybe Sony should put out a DVD-only version of the PS3 for $199 and have it only play PS2 & PS1 games with a built-in harddrive. :roll:

I apparently had to edit the last statement with an eyeroll.

[The Mana Knight]

2) The 80GB system has 50-55% BC, with titles being added incrementally
It's actually 80-85% BC actually. Some newer games may not work and there's still some games out there that don't work. Still, it's not a bad number, but far from being as complete as the 60GB. I'm thinking it will be 90% BC in the future.
I have seen this rumor as well. They will still have to keep some sort of development / software engineer team for emulation of PSN titles, so BC won't be completely scrapped from their costs.

Maybe Sony should put out a DVD-only version of the PS3 for $199 and have it only play PS2 & PS1 games with a built-in harddrive. :)Blu-ray only costs Sony an extra $8. It's the Cell and RSX that costs a lot. Using a HDD isn't exactly cheap either.

[Apossum]

well, the upside for this (sorry, I don't like the idea of the 40gb...) is that it makes a $99 PS2 more plausible, I think.

[NamPaehc]

Blu-ray only costs Sony an extra $8. It's the Cell and RSX that costs a lot. Using a HDD isn't exactly cheap either.

Think he was making a joke ManaKnight.

[Vanigan]

THe problem is, he was using sarcasm, and sarcasm doesn't translate well over the internet. Also considering his previous posts he established himself as someone who would seriously consider this.

Don't bother using the smiley defense either, if you can't communicate what you're really saying through the written word, a smiley will just confuse things.

[Thomas96]

I don't think the introduction of the 40GB system is an indicator that BC is dead. I also don't think that it's wise to buy the 40GB system if you think you'll want BC at some point in the future.

It's pretty clear, folks. None of you are the average dumbass consumer. You all know the following:

1) The 60GB system has full BC, but is being discontinued
2) The 80GB system has 50-55% BC, with titles being added incrementally
3) The 40GB system has NO BC, and it doesn't look like it ever will

You, as a consumer, are armed with knowledge. If you demand BC, but are waiting for a PS3 price drop before buying, guess what? You're gonna wait longer. If you can live without BC, or never planned on getting rid of your PS2, guess what? You can dive right into the 40GB for a good price. If you insist on full BC, then you're part of a few people whose consumer hands are TRULY tied right now, since quantities are finite and will disappear at some point.

Use your knowledge to select a PS3 you want, or shaddup and wait for another price drop. There is NO indication that BC will ever disappear from the expensive model of the PS3, and its foolish to think they will.

you know you're right.. because this is not a matter of BC can't be done.. emulation wise... its just a matter of Sony trying to pool their resources to remedy the most common complaint... lack of games.
Plus avg joe consumer is going to buy the PS3 40gb before they even realize that it doesn't do BC...

One thing is that Sony needs to watch what it says.. because, instead of saying that "they have no plans to do BC w/ the 40gb console" howabout saying something like... "oh its a possibility if the fans want it" - meaning if people buy buy buy PS3... or "right now we're going to focus on some new PS3 IPs" say something that at least makes people think you're going to support it.. at least for this holiday season you don't lose potential sales, just because you told people in a nut shell that there's no chance we're going to do it.

But with that, I still think that BC is going to be big... because PS2 games are still coming out.. and selling software is good, whether its PS3, or PS2.

[Punk_Raven]

can 80 gigs play newer PS2 games?

[The Mana Knight]

Here's an article of analysts take on the issue:
http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=17719

[The Mana Knight]

can 80 gigs play newer PS2 games?Some may run while some may not initially. I heard someone at GAF couldn't get GGX2: Accent Core to play. There will probably be an update to fix that though.

[mykevermin]

The Japanese 40GB is priced too fuckin' HOT, man. I don't know if it's Sony's aggressive pricing strategy, the weak dollar, or a combination of the two (most likely), but the white PS3 is US$340, converting from the Yen.

:hot:

[The Mana Knight]

The Japanese 40GB is priced too fuckin' HOT, man. I don't know if it's Sony's aggressive pricing strategy, the weak dollar, or a combination of the two (most likely), but the white PS3 is US$340, converting from the Yen.

:hot:Well, a 20GB PS3 was priced at $430 at launch, so that doesn't surprise me (compared to $500 here).

Sony losing Monster Hunter 3 to Wii, I'm not sure if it will help.

[Thomas96]

Well, a 20GB PS3 was priced at $430 at launch, so that doesn't surprise me (compared to $500 here).

Sony losing Monster Hunter 3 to Wii, I'm not sure if it will help.


omg, when did sony lose Monster Hunter 3?

[Midnite]

omg, when did sony lose Monster Hunter 3?

Today, check the Wii board.

[pete5883]

There will probably be an update to fix that though.
I think "probably" might be optimistic. I don't think Sony hasn't updated the BC yet, and I don't think they've made any indication that they're going to.

[dallow]

I think "probably" might be optimistic. I don't think Sony hasn't updated the BC yet, and I don't think they've made any indication that they're going to.Every FW update since the one that enabled software emulation of PS2 games (1.6 I believe) has brought BC updates.

Sony just doesn't mention them.

[anarchyburger]

http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/679874/Japan_Gets_40GB_PlayStation_3.html

ok guys read that article, does anyone think the 60gb model will go down further in price? maybe like $50 lower like the arrticle suggests. if they're doing it in Japan, they might do it here...

so i might have to wait a little bit longer to pick up a 60gb ps3

[FriskyTanuki]

http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/679874/Japan_Gets_40GB_PlayStation_3.html

ok guys read that article, does anyone think the 60gb model will go down further in price? maybe like $50 lower like the arrticle suggests. if they're doing it in Japan, they might do it here...

so i might have to wait a little bit longer to pick up a 60gb ps3
Since the 60 GB's on its way out once the stock's gone, I doubt it. It's more likely that the 80 GB will get a price drop to $500 when the 40 GB comes out.

[anarchyburger]

well they colud always drop the price by $50 to help get rid of all the 60gb stock. thats what theyre doing for japan...

[illmatic21]

I really want BC, so the 40gb is a no-go for me =\

Any idea on how long until the 60gb versions will be completely gone? I want one, but I'm trying to wait it out.

[FriskyTanuki]

I really want BC, so the 40gb is a no-go for me =\

Any idea on how long until the 60gb versions will be completely gone? I want one, but I'm trying to wait it out.
All the 60 GB's out there on shelves are all there is left. Sony's shipped them all out of the warehouses as of about a month ago.

[pete5883]

Every FW update since the one that enabled software emulation of PS2 games (1.6 I believe) has brought BC updates.

Sony just doesn't mention them.
There were a few updates for the models with the Emotion Engine, but there's been 1 firmware update since the release of the 80GB model.

No FW update enabled software emulation, perhaps you mean 1.8 which enabled upscaling. But like I said, there's been 1 FW update since then. If you care to name any games which have been updated, I'd love to be wrong.

[SNAKE EYES EX]

I wouldn't be suprised to see PS2 BC as a download in the Sony Store that costs money.

[dallow]

There were a few updates for the models with the Emotion Engine, but there's been 1 firmware update since the release of the 80GB model.

No FW update enabled software emulation, perhaps you mean 1.8 which enabled upscaling. But like I said, there's been 1 FW update since then. If you care to name any games which have been updated, I'd love to be wrong.You forget that the PS3 has been Emotion Engine-less in Europe since launch there.

It started at 1.6 with BC then.

[zerolens]

Yeah if you want a 60GB version you'll have to act soon. You should use the Bestbuy, Circuit City, etc. websites and keep track on availability of the 60GB version in your area. Some websites like Target, Costco, Sonystyle, etc. no longer have 60GB listed I think. Amazon.com and Walmart.com still have it though. Safe to assume the holidays will wipe out the last ones so you really only have a couple of months or so at the most to wait.

I'm just holding out at this point for the odd chance that a store will put them on sale when the 40GB arrives. I assume an official price drop won't happen since sony supposedly has cleared them out. I'll make a move in about a month I think.

[NamPaehc]

They get a "DVR fuction", think they can manage. :P

[mykevermin]

They get a "DVR fuction", think they can manage. :P

huh?

[NamPaehc]

huh?

You know, this thing. (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/sony/sony-europe-releases-playtv-pvr-for-playstation-3-292322.php)

Just as we reported before, Sony's just announced a personal video recorder (PVR) add-on system for the PlayStation 3 in European/PAL territories. Starting early 2008, the dual HDTV DVB-T tuner setup and the PVR will be available in the UK, France, Italy, Germany and Spain, and you will have the ability to store shows on your PS3, watch them via Remote Play on your PSP, and auto-choose between HD and SD depending on your hookup. No US launch is planned as of yet, but we'll update if there's more info.

One good thing they are getting out of all this at least.

[dmaul1114]

Price cut officially too little, too late for me. Couldn't pass up the Fry's deal for 360 and 5 games for $400. So that decided the PS3 or 360 to complement the Wii dilemma for me.

[GizmoGC]

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/28570/Maguire-New-PS3-can-change-attitudes

SCE UK boss Ray Maguire has told MCV that the introduction of the new entry level 40GB PS3 will silence the doubters and take the platform to ‘the next level’.

In the week that SCE UK introduced the new SKU at £299 and revealed that the 60GB console is to be phased out, boss Maguire (pictured) stressed that Sony’s strategy was the result of industry pressure, falling production costs, and a desire to boost installed base as the industry moves into peak period.

“You’ve seen in the pages of MCV that most people want the price to come down – we have to take a more strategic view on when we do these things,” said Maguire. “We’re always mindful of price and installed base, but we’re also mindful that we have a sustainable business.

“We’ve been considering this since launch – this is all part of a very carefully thought-out plan.”

Maguire also hit out at the level of anti-Sony feeling on internet forums.

“If the product was too expensive, of course they’re going to feel ‘anti’, but now I imagine there will be some changing of attitudes,” he said.

“They don’t have sight of running the company and the financials involved. So they end up with internet information – and that is often based on a complete lack of understanding of the facts.”

So you been planning a 40GB PS3 without BC that was 'so great and required' last year, and are bundling it with a Blu-ray movie? WTF is the PS3? Is it a Blu-ray player or a video game system? Make up your fucking minds Sony.

[bluekeith75]

I went ahead and got a 60gb a few days ago and am absoloutly loving it!!

[mykevermin]

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/28570/Maguire-New-PS3-can-change-attitudes



So you been planning a 40GB PS3 without BC that was 'so great and required' last year, and are bundling it with a Blu-ray movie? WTF is the PS3? Is it a Blu-ray player or a video game system? Make up your fucking minds Sony.

No, he said they'd been "considering" it since launch. Which is a possibility, given that they seem to be saving enough money by omitting it to sell it at a much cheaper price.

[nadroj1485]

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/28570/Maguire-New-PS3-can-change-attitudes

So you been planning a 40GB PS3 without BC that was 'so great and required' last year, and are bundling it with a Blu-ray movie? WTF is the PS3? Is it a Blu-ray player or a video game system? Make up your fucking minds Sony.

Didnt they come with talladega nights at launch even when the system had full BC? To answer your question it is both, but since the main concern with the system is the price and not the lack of games bundled with it they decided to cut the price as low as they could and throw in a blu-ray movie with it.

[RedvsBlue]

“If the product was too expensive, of course they’re going to feel ‘anti’, but now I imagine there will be some changing of attitudes,” he said.

“They don’t have sight of running the company and the financials involved. So they end up with internet information – and that is often based on a complete lack of understanding of the facts.”

That's bullshit, plain and simple. The reason the system is too expensive in the first place is because they're trying to sneak blu-ray players into everyone's household and we all know it. His "well no one knows all the facts" is a cop-out plain and simple.

Yes, we understand Sony loses money on every PS3 that's sold, we're not idiots. The part "the internet crowds" don't understand is why you had to make your system so god damn high end in the first place.

Now, you're in the neighborhood of the 360's price range but you've still got 2 problems at this point. The first is that you've already alienated potential buyers with your holier-than-thou trash talking that you've done to the other companies. The very same companies that have combined to sell nearly 5 times the number of consoles you have. They've stolen your fanbase Sony, plain and simple. Your second problem is that in order to hit that $400 price point you've stripped your console down to absolute bare-bones. You did it backwards. You add stuff to your system, not continuously take stuff away. Most importantly, you don't make such a big deal about backwards compatability (and how Microsoft just isn't getting it right) and then strip that completely out of your console. You've bungled your way through this generation from start to finish and that's why "the 'nets" has turned against you, not just because of the price-point but because of your whole attitude and approach to this generation of consoles.

[mykevermin]

you've already alienated potential buyers with your holier-than-thou trash talking that you've done to the other companies.

You really think that matters?

[dmaul1114]

You really think that matters?

Probably not on a grand scale. But probably some among hardcore gamers. Definitely soured me more on them, after I was already pissed about the the high price from forcing a blu ray player I don't need/want right now.

But definitely doesn't matter to the casual gamers who made the PS2 and PS1 a raging success. The absurd price already cost them most of that market.

[SNKMat]

is it true that it will include warhawk and resistance

[mykevermin]

is it true that it will include warhawk and resistance

It's unlikely that they'd include an M-rated game in the box.

[zerolens]

That's bullshit, plain and simple. The reason the system is too expensive in the first place is because they're trying to sneak blu-ray players into everyone's household and we all know it. His "well no one knows all the facts" is a cop-out plain and simple.

Yes, we understand Sony loses money on every PS3 that's sold, we're not idiots. The part "the internet crowds" don't understand is why you had to make your system so god damn high end in the first place.

Now, you're in the neighborhood of the 360's price range but you've still got 2 problems at this point. The first is that you've already alienated potential buyers with your holier-than-thou trash talking that you've done to the other companies. The very same companies that have combined to sell nearly 5 times the number of consoles you have. They've stolen your fanbase Sony, plain and simple. Your second problem is that in order to hit that $400 price point you've stripped your console down to absolute bare-bones. You did it backwards. You add stuff to your system, not continuously take stuff away. Most importantly, you don't make such a big deal about backwards compatability (and how Microsoft just isn't getting it right) and then strip that completely out of your console. You've bungled your way through this generation from start to finish and that's why "the 'nets" has turned against you, not just because of the price-point but because of your whole attitude and approach to this generation of consoles.

Of course blu-ray was put in to help sony win the HD format war and that's what drove up the price, but from a gaming perspective it's becoming important.

360 discs can only hold around 7GB of game data (I've seen as low as 6.8GB quoted). Not sure what the exact amount is but some games are going to have problems fitting. The latest being Assassin's Creed supposedly. Didn't GTA4 developers complain too or was it a rumor?

What's funny is Oblivion was used as an excuse for a long time that DVD was ok yet we now have the GOTY edition on 2 discs and requires you to download on to the hard drive. The numbers I've seen have Oblivion, Shivering Isles, and Knights of the Nine very close to 7GB. There's not much reason for Bethesda to open the door for people to rent or borrow GOTY from a friend, download the supposed $30 worth of content, and be able to do this for little to no money. You could even buy a used version at Gamestop, download the 2nd disc, and return it and claim you didn't like the game and Gamestop would give you your money back. Seems suspicious to me for Bethesda to offer this option and not put it on one disc.

Other consoles have stolen the fanbase? Way too early to call that. There's something like 100 million PS2's out there, has 360 even broke 15 million yet? Plenty of gamers out there who still haven't chosen. A $400 system is a step in the right direction. And it's "barebones"? You call a standard hard drive, blu-ray player, wi-fi, etc. barebones?

360 core is given a free pass because it was there at launch, but people complain about PS3 pricing (including yourself) so sony answers by cutting back and offering a lower priced version and you still complain? BC is still there in the 80GB version. You pay more for extra specs, same way you buy a premium or elite for extra features and specs. When sony cancels the 80GB and they're off the shelf and there's no sign of software emulation then feel free to tear into them. BC will truly be dead and buried if that happens.

Sony has plenty of times said one thing and turned around less than a month later and did the opposite. As of now you have options in the form of 60GB and 80GB.

[dmaul1114]

Size of discs don't matter at all. They can always put a game on multiple discs if they have to. Which is perfectly fine, as you have to be pretty damn fucking lazy to not want to get up and change discs once during a long game. And it would have to be a damn long game, or chalk full of FMV cutscenes, to fill up a 7GB disc.

The only reason the Oblivion stuff has to be copied to the hard drive is because it was just downloadable expansions that they just crammed onto a disc rather than reprogramming to run independently off there own discs. Just a way for them to maximize profits.

As for the Core getting a free pass. Bullshit. It's always been known as the "tard pack" since day one on net forums.

It was a joke, and I was annoyed at MS for having a $400 console since the $300 option was completely useless.

At any rate, like I said above, I finally got on the 360 wagon with the incredible Fry's deal, so Sony has lost this former PS fan. Loved the PS1 and PS2, but PS3 has shown me nothing, while the 360 has a hell of a good game line up and a better price. Failure rate is all that worries me, but with the new heatsink hopefully that's fine, and if not the 3 year warranty gives me some peace of mind.

Sony just wasn't going to be at a price point/game library ratio that would warrant a purchase for me anytime soon, if ever. They're future exclusives just don't exite me much. Basically a few games I'd "like" to play, but nothing that I "must" play.

[zerolens]

Size of discs don't matter at all. They can always put a game on multiple discs if they have to. Which is perfectly fine, as you have to be pretty damn fucking lazy to not want to get up and change discs once during a long game. And it would have to be a damn long game, or chalk full of FMV cutscenes, to fill up a 7GB disc.

The only reason the Oblivion stuff has to be copied to the hard drive is because it was just downloadable expansions that they just crammed onto a disc rather than reprogramming to run independently off there own discs. Just a way for them to maximize profits.

As for the Core getting a free pass. Bullshit. It's always been known as the "tard pack" since day one on net forums.

It was a joke, and I was annoyed at MS for having a $400 console since the $300 option was completely useless.

At any rate, like I said above, I finally got on the 360 wagon with the incredible Fry's deal, so Sony has lost this former PS fan. Loved the PS1 and PS2, but PS3 has shown me nothing, while the 360 has a hell of a good game line up and a better price. Failure rate is all that worries me, but with the new heatsink hopefully that's fine, and if not the 3 year warranty gives me some peace of mind.

Sony just wasn't going to be at a price point/game library ratio that would warrant a purchase for me anytime soon, if ever. They're future exclusives just don't exite me much. Basically a few games I'd "like" to play, but nothing that I "must" play.

And I could turn around and ask how is it maximizing profits by creating an easy way to get Shivering Isles ($20-$30 content) for basically no money? They went through the trouble of letting core owners (people without hard drives) be able to play Oblivion, but now they've shut them out of playing Shivering Isles? Maybe this seems normal to you but it seems weird to see a company offer such an easy way for people to get a 30 hour expansion simply by renting or borrowing from a friend. To you it may be maximizing profits, I call that throwing money away because they don't want to include it on one disc?

And since when can you swap discs in a game like GTA4? Of course the game will end up on one disc, Rockstar has no choice. They have to make it fit on one DVD and core owners have to be able to play it. If they did complain about disc space then it could be a sign that space was an issue.

[GizmoGC]

And I could turn around and ask how is it maximizing profits by creating an easy way to get Shivering Isles ($20-$30 content) for basically no money? They went through the trouble of letting core owners (people without hard drives) be able to play Oblivion, but now they've shut them out of playing Shivering Isles? Maybe this seems normal to you but it seems weird to see a company offer such an easy way for people to get a 30 hour expansion simply by renting or borrowing from a friend. To you it may be maximizing profits, I call that throwing money away because they don't want to include it on one disc?

And since when can you swap discs in a game like GTA4? Of course the game will end up on one disc, Rockstar has no choice. They have to make it fit on one DVD and core owners have to be able to play it. If they did complain about disc space then it could be a sign that space was an issue.

Yet PS3 owners can't even download and play Shivering Isles :lol:

[Mechafenris]

Yet PS3 owners can't even download and play Shivering Isles :lol:

Not for a few days yet. ;) What, is GOTY due out on Tuesday? :lol:

I can't for the life of me figure out why they've not done it via the PSN store yet.. it certainly cannot be a technical issue... it must be a pricing/$ to Sony issue.

They seem to be working it out though... as the Bethesda rep said we'd have good news soon... (whether it be a $30 disc or a $30 download... I don't mind either.)

I've heard the arguments for and against Blu Ray, and I've got to say that some of the against sound eerily like the Nintendo "cartridges are fine" arguments back in the N64 days. "CD-Roms add cost and complexity..." etc etc.

Was it too early to put out a Blu Ray player equipped console? *shrug* We'll see. Simply hearing the "it's too expensive" crowd chanting over and over on forums and at in blog comment sections does not constitute a groundswell of anti-Blu Ray sentiment (though the initial cost was significant, the console wars are not lost on cost alone... at least not long-term.)

[dmaul1114]

And since when can you swap discs in a game like GTA4? Of course the game will end up on one disc, Rockstar has no choice. They have to make it fit on one DVD and core owners have to be able to play it. If they did complain about disc space then it could be a sign that space was an issue.

Fair point for those kind of games. Multiple discs would be an issues for those types of non-linear games as itw ould be annoying to have to switch back and forth multiple times.

But given that it's going to the 360, and having exclusive content there, the game obviously fits just fine on regular DVDs (have heard nothing of any complaints about size from Rockstar), so it's a moot point. 7GB is plenty of space for games that don't waste it with FMV, lossless audio etc.

As for the Oblivion expansions, it probably just saved money with not having to re-program the expansions to run independently. I'd assume the weighted the potential losses through people installing from a friends copy etc. against the costs of re-programming as full games (and taking more time to release) when making the decision of how to put it out. That or they didn't give a crap.

[dmaul1114]

Was it too early to put out a Blu Ray player equipped console? *shrug* We'll see. Simply hearing the "it's too expensive" crowd chanting over and over on forums and at in blog comment sections does not constitute a groundswell of anti-Blu Ray sentiment (though the initial cost was significant, the console wars are not lost on cost alone... at least not long-term.)


I don't care much about the console wars. Couldn't care less who wins as I'm not much of a fan of any of the three companies, and competition is good for us gamers.

I just bitch about blu-ray as I have no interest in a high def disc format until the HD-DVD/BR wars are over, the movie catalogs are vastly expanded and discs cost about the same as DVDs now (buy most of mine for $5-15).

So including it gave me a non-gaming feature I don't want right now, and priced the console WAY above what I'd ever pay for a console. And this also cost them exclusives due to sluggish first year sales, giving me even less incentive to buy a PS3, despite playing the shit out of the PS1 and PS2.

Will it cost them the console war? Don't know. Don't care. It cost them my business this generation though.

[GizmoGC]

Not for a few days yet. ;) What, is GOTY due out on Tuesday? :lol:


Notice how I said "download" ;)

PS3 owners who bought this back in March now have to rebuy it for Shivering Isle. If you bought Elder Scrolls on the 360 18 months ago you can download Shivering Isle right now.

I'm gonna have to give this game another whirl on Monday...As soon as I can find the game.

[zerolens]

http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=16019

OPM asked, "On PS3 you've got a guarantee that every machine is going to have a hard-drive and, with Blu-ray, you've got plenty of storage, whereas on Xbox 360 there's no guarantee of a hard-drive and you're working with the DVD format. Does that create limitations?" Houser replied quickly and succinctly, "Yep." He added, "To be honest with you we haven't solved all those riddles yet."

According to that the non-standard hard drive and DVD format could be causing problems or at the very least is a drawback. We're not talking about a game that can be done on multiple discs and FMV is not the problem either. At the same time there's no way Rockstar is going to say on launch day that they cut back on GTA4 in certain areas to make it fit on DVD. They don't want people to think the game is gimped somehow. Like I said though the game will be on one disc, it has to be, and people will continue to justify the DVD disc as enough because of that.

As far as Oblivion, if I knew the EXACT size of Oblivion + Knights of the Nine + Shivering Isles and also the EXACT size of useable disc space for game data on a 360 DVD then that would answer my question. All I ever see is "7GB" quoted, and I believe someone quoted 6.8GB once. From the numbers I've seen Oblivion GOTY is very close to that, and possibly right at 6.8GB if the numbers I've seen are correct.

Oblivion NTSC 5.83GB + Shivering Isles 993 MB + KOTN 155MB = 6.95GB I think

[Mechafenris]

Notice how I said "download" ;)

PS3 owners who bought this back in March now have to rebuy it for Shivering Isle. If you bought Elder Scrolls on the 360 18 months ago you can download Shivering Isle right now.

I'm gonna have to give this game another whirl on Monday...As soon as I can find the game.

Notice a little further how I said that Bethesda is going to announce soon that it might be downloadable too via PSN... (or not, so they qualified it....) I got the idea... Implications that the Shivering isles was not available for the PS3 was the Bethesda way of saying "GOTY?" which is not ideal... and I don't think the end of the story.

I think, if you can get it on disc by itself for $30 like you will be able to for the 360, will downloading be _that_ much more desirable? For me, not so much.

There will be a standalone shivering isles for the PS3... what format that will take is another matter. And as usual this gen... we can always say "not quite yet" when we talk about it.

[dmaul1114]

Oblivion NTSC 5.83GB + Shivering Isles 993 MB + KOTN 155MB = 6.95GB I think


Keep in mind here that you're arguing that one of the longest games ever made, with one of the biggest game worlds ever created, PLUS two expansions for it could almost fit on one DVD probably.

DVDs are enough space for most games this generation, and most games can be put on multiple discs. It's really just an issue with these types of open ended games were you have one big world/city your zig zagging across as it would be annoying to have say half the world on one disc and half on the other.

So for those types of games, Blurays do offer an advantage. Still not enough to remotely justify the console costing $500-600 at launch as that's $200-300 more than I'd pay for a console with no games included. Even the $400 for the Frys 360 bundle with 5 games stings the wallet/my sensibilities a bit.

[Mechafenris]

Keep in mind here that you're arguing that one of the longest games ever made, with one of the biggest game worlds ever created, PLUS two expansions for it could almost fit on one DVD probably.

DVDs are enough space for most games this generation, and most games can be put on multiple discs. It's really just an issue with these types of open ended games were you have one big world/city your zig zagging across as it would be annoying to have say half the world on one disc and half on the other.


Throw in some uncompressed cutscenes, a few lengthy bits of dialogue, perhaps some big textures that don't repeat and make the world seem like a 1960's cartoon, and a large worldmap (regardless of game length), and I think we can see multiple DVDs. Whether that is a good thing or not is left up to the historians who look back on this generation's game consoles....

There were similar issues when CD-Roms first came on the scene for PC games... lots of shovelware (filler) came out early on, because game studios wanted to fill them up, but didn't have the ideas or design concepts in place to make larger, more immersive games... so they added FMV, some uncompressed audio tracks and voila! CD-sized game! :) Later, games became mindful of the content, and made decent games on the media (sometimes on multiple discs like Planescape:Tormet... an EXCELLENT RPG)..

In the case of Blu-Ray, however... it's not necessarily Sony's proactive response to the inevitable size constraints (which I think given their console lifecycles, might actually have been a consideration), but the format war w/r/t DVD's successor that is the sticking point with the PS3 (and those who find it vastly overpriced at the moment.)

I think Sony could've hit the $400 pricepoint, came out with a $300 add-on for Blu-Ray like the HD-DVD add-on for the 360, and we'd be having a very different conversation... (albeit, probably a negative one about the PS3, given the development hurdles and all). But that's parallel universe talk... and in _this_ universe, we focus on the now. ;)

I am not as vocal a critic about the PS3 w/r/t price, because I feel like it will (and has already) delivered a worthy experience for what I paid for it. (I bought a 20GB, and threw in a 120GB hdd). Still, I am not going to say that the price is for everyone, and those who balk at the higher price have rocks in their skulls. To each his own, YMMV, and results are not typical. ;) For me, I didn't think the 360 was overpriced (albeit a bit shoddy... though I bought an elite recently to remedy that.)

I wonder how 2008 will pan out with lots of cross-platform gaming coming in the bigger titles from the larger (not-EA) studios.... heck, even the fellow who recently took the helm of EA stated that the PS3 was going to be more on par with the 360 under his watch... thus possibly nullifying the "we're focusing on the 360" comments of the previous guard...

[Thomas96]

http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=16019

OPM asked, "On PS3 you've got a guarantee that every machine is going to have a hard-drive and, with Blu-ray, you've got plenty of storage, whereas on Xbox 360 there's no guarantee of a hard-drive and you're working with the DVD format. Does that create limitations?" Houser replied quickly and succinctly, "Yep." He added, "To be honest with you we haven't solved all those riddles yet."

According to that the non-standard hard drive and DVD format could be causing problems or at the very least is a drawback. We're not talking about a game that can be done on multiple discs and FMV is not the problem either. At the same time there's no way Rockstar is going to say on launch day that they cut back on GTA4 in certain areas to make it fit on DVD. They don't want people to think the game is gimped somehow. Like I said though the game will be on one disc, it has to be, and people will continue to justify the DVD disc as enough because of that.

As far as Oblivion, if I knew the EXACT size of Oblivion + Knights of the Nine + Shivering Isles and also the EXACT size of useable disc space for game data on a 360 DVD then that would answer my question. All I ever see is "7GB" quoted, and I believe someone quoted 6.8GB once. From the numbers I've seen Oblivion GOTY is very close to that, and possibly right at 6.8GB if the numbers I've seen are correct.

Oblivion NTSC 5.83GB + Shivering Isles 993 MB + KOTN 155MB = 6.95GB I think


this is why PS3 success is so important, not just for Sony but for everyone. I want the PS3 to do well because I really want to see what devs can do when they use the space, when they use the system's power. This isn't about console wars its about the advancement of the industry, advancement of the games. What could GTA have been if they didn't have to gimp it for the 360 and 360 owners without hard drives. What could oblivion have been.. if there weren't as many limitations - instigated by the size of dvd. These companies don't want multiple disc games... because that increased production costs, and just more chances for error. plus every game isn't good for multiple discs.. oblivion.. you could just ruin the immersiveness of the game if you have to change discs back and forth. Lets not shun a good idea just because its not the way its done on other consoles.

[dmaul1114]

Throw in some uncompressed cutscenes, a few lengthy bits of dialogue, perhaps some big textures that don't repeat and make the world seem like a 1960's cartoon, and a large worldmap (regardless of game length), and I think we can see multiple DVDs.

Possibly. Non-repeating textures are the only thing I'd like tos ee out of that. I don't like a lot of cutscenes, so I don't care if they are compressed or not, don't like a lot of voice acting, not big on uber long games with huge worlds (get sick of the game long before finishing) so those things are moot points for me. But more space could be a good thing for people into those things.


In the case of Blu-Ray, however... it's not necessarily Sony's proactive response to the inevitable size constraints (which I think given their console lifecycles, might actually have been a consideration), but the format war w/r/t DVD's successor that is the sticking point with the PS3 (and those who find it vastly overpriced at the moment.)

No doubt about that. They cared more about winning the format war (think they would have given up since every format they've tried to introduce has failed) more than staying on top in gaming.


I think Sony could've hit the $400 pricepoint, came out with a $300 add-on for Blu-Ray like the HD-DVD add-on for the 360, and we'd be having a very different conversation... (albeit, probably a negative one about the PS3, given the development hurdles and all). But that's parallel universe talk... and in _this_ universe, we focus on the now. ;)

I think they'd be in first place if they'd done that just on brand strength alone. PS2 has a miserable first year sofware wise and still smoked the DC and was never threatened by the X-box or GC due to selling on name brand after the huge success of the PS1


To each his own, YMMV, and results are not typical. ;) For me, I didn't think the 360 was overpriced (albeit a bit shoddy... though I bought an elite recently to remedy that.)

Definitely to each their own. The PS3 is a decent value for someone who cares about having a BR player. I don't as I don't care much about picture quality (care some, but upconverted DVDs look more than good enough to me). Definitely not enough to pay $25-30 for discs I could get on DVD for $5-15.

360 was just high for me as well as I just don't game that much anymore. Probably average less than 5 hours a week across the year. Probably usually just play a couple hours, and just have a binge week every month or two where I'll do 20+ hours when some big AAA game sucks me in for a week or two.

So being a causal gamer it's just tough to justify spending that kind of money when it could be saved or spent on hobbies I enjoy more etc.

[dmaul1114]

What could oblivion have been.. if there weren't as many limitations - instigated by the size of dvd.

Did they really limit Oblivion? I thought it was more developed for PC and ported to 360, and the PC version was the same?

Again, this issue doesn't matter to me as I don't like open ended games, nor super long games as I just don't have the time or attention span for them.

Though I am curious to try Oblivion at some point on 360 as it's gotten such hype. GTAIV is a no go though as GTA3 still remains my most hated universally praised game. :D

But I can concede that disc space is an issue for such games.

[zerolens]

Keep in mind here that you're arguing that one of the longest games ever made, with one of the biggest game worlds ever created, PLUS two expansions for it could almost fit on one DVD probably.

DVDs are enough space for most games this generation, and most games can be put on multiple discs. It's really just an issue with these types of open ended games were you have one big world/city your zig zagging across as it would be annoying to have say half the world on one disc and half on the other.

So for those types of games, Blurays do offer an advantage. Still not enough to remotely justify the console costing $500-600 at launch as that's $200-300 more than I'd pay for a console with no games included. Even the $400 for the Frys 360 bundle with 5 games stings the wallet/my sensibilities a bit.

NTSC Morrowind GOTY Edition on the Xbox is 960MB. Since when is Elder Scrolls the standard on using disc capacity to the limits? We can both speculate all we want to, the fact remains it was put on two discs. Because of that core owners can't play Shivering Isles.

I wouldn't pay $600 for a PS3 the same way you wouldn't, but that's irrelevant to the issue. The issue is some games will potentially suffer because of disc space. I wouldn't call DVD space "enough" when one of the biggest games GTA4 is supposedly having space issues.

[Vanigan]

The problem now seems to be that they didn't put enough RAM into the PS3, which is causing problems when trying to have a lot of data loaded. MS took a cue from Epic games and paid extra to put more RAM in the system than normal, not sure which type though, video RAM or normal system RAM?

Part of me thinks Sony skimped a bit on the RAM because they needed to put in the BC.

Anyway, developers have had to use more streaming technology where they stream data more off the standard hard drive and bluray disc at the same time.

[BattleChicken]

The problem now seems to be that they didn't put enough RAM into the PS3, which is causing problems when trying to have a lot of data loaded. MS took a cue from Epic games and paid extra to put more RAM in the system than normal, not sure which type though, video RAM or normal system RAM?

Part of me thinks Sony skimped a bit on the RAM because they needed to put in the BC.

Anyway, developers have had to use more streaming technology where they stream data more off the standard hard drive and bluray disc at the same time.

I tend to agree, if Sony had put the money they initially put into Blu Ray into the GPU and RAM solution in stead, the PS3 would be the most powerful console bar none...

As it stands, the PS3 is limited by its RAM, which, as with all computers, means it is bottlenecked by that choice.. which puts it and the Xbox 360 on about equal footing. 256 for video 256 for system versus 512 unified.

[dmaul1114]

I wouldn't call DVD space "enough" when one of the biggest games GTA4 is supposedly having space issues.

If you read my posts above, you'll see that I acknowledged that space on DVDs may be an issue for games like GTA with huge open ended worlds as multiple discs isn't an option.

I just said it's not enough to make the PS3's BRs a selling point to me since I hate those kinds of games. But it is a fair point for those who like such games.

[Vanigan]

Actually, you'll see later story based games being limited in this way too, since heavy story driven games with a wide variety of locales, dialog, digital actors, etc... tend to take up a lot of space. Especially so when you get into the more complex data like full facial rigs, animated textures, and whatnot.

[dmaul1114]

Actually, you'll see later story based games being limited in this way too, since heavy story driven games with a wide variety of locales, dialog, digital actors, etc... tend to take up a lot of space. Especially so when you get into the more complex data like full facial rigs, animated textures, and whatnot.


Yeah, but if it's a linear game with no (or very little) back tracking it doesn't matter as they can just put it on two or three DVDs.

It's only an issue for something like GTA where you have a big world your zig zagging back and forth across as you don't want to change discs everytime you go to a certain area etc.

For RPGs it's not much of an issue (see the PS1 final fantasy games, or the Resident Evil games even) as you just changes once per disc and your done with it.

[The Mana Knight]

New PS3 SKU??
http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/15/ps3-model-cechh01-lands-at-the-fcc

It might be a white 40GB, who knows.

[Thomas96]

Did they really limit Oblivion? I thought it was more developed for PC and ported to 360, and the PC version was the same?

Again, this issue doesn't matter to me as I don't like open ended games, nor super long games as I just don't have the time or attention span for them.

Though I am curious to try Oblivion at some point on 360 as it's gotten such hype. GTAIV is a no go though as GTA3 still remains my most hated universally praised game. :D

But I can concede that disc space is an issue for such games.


Oblivion is a game I'll never finish.. so they didn't limit it at all. But I'm just theorizing the notion that even more could have been added, on the disc without DLC.

[GizmoGC]

New PS3 SKU??
http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/15/ps3-model-cechh01-lands-at-the-fcc

It might be a white 40GB, who knows.

I hope so. I can't imagine how confusing it would be to buy a used on at EB in the future.

[Apossum]

New PS3 SKU??
http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/15/ps3-model-cechh01-lands-at-the-fcc

It might be a white 40GB, who knows.



This is too funny. even if it is just a white 40gb system, that's the kind of option you'd want to have when launching the other white model, so people have a choice and don't feel screwed over a few weeks later.

[FatBoyInside]

Wasn't the first PS3 sku FCC filing discovered back in July/August? That became the 40gb version to be released this November. This new sku filing in mid-Oct. is probably the 40gb version upgraded with a dual shock 3 rumble controller, which is set to debut here in the states in a couple of months as well. Just wishful thinking...

[zewone]

They need to announce this already, I want to buy it ASAP.

[zewone]

November 2nd.

http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSN1732325620071018?feedType=RSS&feedName=technologyNews&pageNumber=1

So...the 40GB is $400 and 80GB is $500...how much will the remaining 60GBs sell for?

If it's $400-450, I'll spring for the 60.

[Punk_Raven]

If 80gb is going to be 500 then I'd totally spring for that. The fact that they're taking BC out for the 40 gig scares me. It makes me think that if I don't buy an 80gb PS3 right now, later they will tell me to suck their cock ( buy a PS2 ) for PS2 games on for every SKU. What do you all think about that?

[benjamouth]

The 80gb PS3 for $500 sounds ok, maybe they'll be a deal available for the remaining 60gb's or I might be able to pick up the 80gb + Motorstorm pack for $500.

[CaseyRyback]

If 80gb is going to be 500 then I'd totally spring for that. The fact that they're taking BC out for the 40 gig scares me. It makes me think that if I don't buy an 80gb PS3 right now, later they will tell me to suck their cock ( buy a PS2 ) for PS2 games on for every SKU. What do you all think about that?

You want the 60 gig. The 60 gig is the best version of the system to have.

[Tirade]

You want the 60 gig. The 60 gig is the best version of the system to have.

Nevermind

[CaseyRyback]

I still see them all the time. They have not disappeared yet. I know I saw some monday at the Target I go to.

[Punk_Raven]

You want the 60 gig. The 60 gig is the best version of the system to have.
But by the time I have enough money to get it, 60 gigs will be unaccesable and hard to find.

[The Mana Knight]

Looks like I was right. :)
Nothing new, this was expected. But if you go to retailers, you'll see there is plenty left. The 60GB probably won't sell out until October at the earliest. When it's gone, the 80GB model will be re-adjusted.

http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3300039&postcount=1

[hufferstl]

I am not interested for at least another year, and another dozen hardware configs.

But if was only interested in a blu ray player, I couldn't resist.

[camoor]

$400 puts PS3 back in the running for me.

I'm going to continue waiting it out until I see who has the better games (IE Son¥ or Micro$oft)

[GizmoGC]

Congrats Sony, you just secured yourself a spot at the bottom for this generation.

$400 40GB PS3 with no BC
Dropping the price $100 of a model that JUST CAME OUT 2 months ago?
Kudos, Sony, Kudos.

[doubledown]

Congrats Sony, you just secured yourself a spot at the bottom for this generation.

$400 40GB PS3 with no BC
Dropping the price $100 of a model that JUST CAME OUT 2 months ago?
Kudos, Sony, Kudos.

Ummm, a LOT of people have expressed interest in this now, so Ithink they may actually MOVE some more consoles.

I have a guy at work that just wants one for Blu-Ray and Upconverting DVD.

[RedvsBlue]

Congrats Sony, you just secured yourself a spot at the bottom for this generation.

$400 40GB PS3 with no BC
Dropping the price $100 of a model that JUST CAME OUT 2 months ago?
Kudos, Sony, Kudos.

I wouldn't be surprised if the $100 price drop wasn't thought out well in advance. Perhaps even before the 80 gb came out. Its not like it matters anyway, the 60 gb is the best model to own.

[GizmoGC]

Ummm, a LOT of people have expressed interest in this now, so Ithink they may actually MOVE some more consoles.

I have a guy at work that just wants one for Blu-Ray and Upconverting DVD.

It will move some, no doubt about it. But how many of those people will know it has no BC? Will Sony notify customers on the box? Eh. Either way, its going to suck working in a game store after Christmas when all the returns start.

[NamPaehc]

It will move some, no doubt about it. But how many of those people will know it has no BC? Will Sony notify customers on the box? Eh. Either way, its going to suck working in a game store after Christmas when all the returns start.

Well, from what my friend said, there are people who want to be apart of the next gen without paying so much and who don't care about old games. I bet you we won't hear as much about returns for lack of BC as you think.

[dmaul1114]

Well, from what my friend said, there are people who want to be apart of the next gen without paying so much and who don't care about old games.

True, I was one of them, and that's why I went 360. Was on the fence betweein 360/PS3. Couldn't pass up the Fry's deal last week, plus the fact that some of my friends have 360s (so we can game online) while none have PS3s. Sony has lost my business for this gen.

[dallow]

I've said it before.

It will say on the box about the lack of BC for PS2 software.

Just like it says on the 80GB about possible limited BC.

Sony has lost my business for this gen.
Oh no!

[Punk_Raven]

Sony is finished

Fixed.

[dallow]

Fixed.:D

[FriskyTanuki]

I demand a free PS3 with Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, and a Wii and two Gamecubes duct-taped to the top of the PS3.

[RedvsBlue]

True, I was one of them, and that's why I went 360. Was on the fence betweein 360/PS3. Couldn't pass up the Fry's deal last week, plus the fact that some of my friends have 360s (so we can game online) while none have PS3s. Sony has lost my business for this gen.

Yeah but they gained mine so at the end of the day I guess they're just even-steven huh?

[RedvsBlue]

I demand a free PS3 with Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, and a Wii and two Gamecubes duct-taped to the top of the PS3.

Don't forget the Foreman grill.

[dallow]

Yay, my cousin is now buying one!

It'll be nice to play with some family online.

[FriskyTanuki]

Don't forget the Foreman grill.
It's already included! :D

[Apossum]

somebody start a new thread. I don't own a PS3 and I'm sick of keeping track of their convoluted pricing structure.

[dmaul1114]

somebody start a new thread. I don't own a PS3 and I'm sick of keeping track of their convoluted pricing structure.

Here you go (just posted in deals forum as someone wanted a run down). It is absurd though.

20GB- full BC, but not available new anymore.
40GB- 399.99 no BC at all
60GB- 499.99 full BC as it has has the PS2 chips inside, not being made anymore, but still available in stores for the time being
80GB-499.99, partial BC as it's software emulation (like the 360). You can search games and see if they are compatible here (there's probably a list out there somewhere as well).

http://www.us.playstation.com/Support/CompatibleStatus

[lanzarlaluna]

It makes me laugh how people bitched PS3 being too expensive, then Sony makes an effort to drop the price, and people start to bitch about too many SKUs. While I'll agree that Sony royally fucked up in making up ground, considering their competition is a box with 100% failure rate, a lot people just bitch for the sake of bitching. Good times.

[dmaul1114]

I just think it's odd to have so many sku's and so many differences in what you get.

As I said early in the thread, going to $400 was a step in the right direction, and the only reason I was even on the fence between a 360/PS3 purchase this fall. Before the rumors of this price drop the PS3 wasn't even in the picture.

So I'm not bitching about the price drop, just a bit annoyed that they launced with such a stupidly high price to begin with, and have had to scramble so much to try to get a reasonably priced machine out by ditching BC etc.

And, while the 360 has an absurdly high failure rate, it's nowhere near 100%.

[Punk_Raven]

It makes me laugh how people bitched PS3 being too expensive, then Sony makes an effort to drop the price, and people start to bitch about too many SKUs. While I'll agree that Sony royally fucked up in making up ground, considering their competition is a box with 100% failure rate, a lot people just bitch for the sake of bitching. Good times.

I see what you did there.

And "bitch" is such a harsh word.

[slidecage]

sorry but the avg. mother isnt going to run out and spend 400 bucks for a system that will NOT Play the older games.

now maybe if the PS3 HAD some MUST PLAY GAMES i could see spending 400 bucks for a sytem BUT no chance in hell most people minds will be changed.

Hell people bitched at the PS2 at 300 bucks and that INCLUDED bACKWARDS ps1 playable games BUT think the PS3 at 400 is a good deal with no BC is good LOL

[Apossum]

It makes me laugh how people bitched PS3 being too expensive, then Sony makes an effort to drop the price, and people start to bitch about too many SKUs. While I'll agree that Sony royally fucked up in making up ground, considering their competition is a box with 100% failure rate, a lot people just bitch for the sake of bitching. Good times.


I guess if you have a one dimensional view of the situation, then it would appear absurd that people are frustrated that there's a new sku, price drop, and hardware revision every 5 minutes.

[dallow]

Slidecage, you so riduculous! ::snap snap::

[FriskyTanuki]

Slidecage, you so riduculous! ::snap snap::
Them mothers are too smrt to fall for this ploy. ;)

[zewone]

sorry but the avg. mother isnt going to run out and spend 400 bucks for a system that will NOT Play the older games.

now maybe if the PS3 HAD some MUST PLAY GAMES i could see spending 400 bucks for a sytem BUT no chance in hell most people minds will be changed.

Hell people bitched at the PS2 at 300 bucks and that INCLUDED bACKWARDS ps1 playable games BUT think the PS3 at 400 is a good deal with no BC is good LOL
Watch out, bro.

TheManaKnight lives in the same city as you. If he sees you talking ill will towards Sony, bad things could happen to you.

I'd just delete your post to be safe.

[slidecage]

just saying wait and watch. Sony stuck the stickers on the box saying no BC cause you know the people at BB CC and all the other stores would say

Yea this plays all of the games no problem. I remember when the N64 came out they were telling people it would play all games LOL


if people wasnt willing to pay 299 for a ps2

why would they drop 399 on for a p3 with no BC?

all i know is this xmas im dumping all of my ps2 games (besides the rpg games) just to be on the safe side (then again probally 75% of them are not worth jack)

hell i give sony enough cash already LOL how many times did i buy FF 1 and 2 and FFT off of them

[Ugamer_X]

just saying wait and watch. Sony stuck the stickers on the box saying no BC cause you know the people at BB CC and all the other stores would say

Yea this plays all of the games no problem. I remember when the N64 came out they were telling people it would play all games LOL


if people wasnt willing to pay 299 for a ps2

why would they drop 399 on for a p3 with no BC?

all i know is this xmas im dumping all of my ps2 games (besides the rpg games) just to be on the safe side (then again probally 75% of them are not worth jack)

hell i give sony enough cash already LOL how many times did i buy FF 1 and 2 and FFT off of them
Do us a favor and stop talking.

[lanzarlaluna]

Watch out, bro.

TheManaKnight lives in the same city as you. If he sees you talking ill will towards Sony, bad things could happen to you.

I'd just delete your post to be safe.He could always hide in a liquor store.

[FriskyTanuki]

just saying wait and watch. Sony stuck the stickers on the box saying no BC cause you know the people at BB CC and all the other stores would say

Yea this plays all of the games no problem. I remember when the N64 came out they were telling people it would play all games LOL


if people wasnt willing to pay 299 for a ps2

why would they drop 399 on for a p3 with no BC?

all i know is this xmas im dumping all of my ps2 games (besides the rpg games) just to be on the safe side (then again probally 75% of them are not worth jack)

hell i give sony enough cash already LOL how many times did i buy FF 1 and 2 and FFT off of them
That must've been a lot of people buying PS2's against their will.

[Scorch]

20GB- full BC, but not available new anymore.

Not true. My store still has 2 :lol:

[v1et r1ce]

I hope there are sales for the 60GB PS3's on black friday..I'd pay $400~$450 for a 60GB or throw and game and controller in and I'd pay the $499 :D

[slidecage]

That must've been a lot of people buying PS2's against their will.

at least around here the PS2 was never in DEMAND. hell the first day you could walk into best buy at 4pm and pick one up the first day.


Ps2 really never fell into the main stream until they fell to 179 BUT even then you could play the PS1 games

With no BC got to wonder what a PS3 price would be main stream range.

with going out and buying all new games i doubt an avg person wouldnt spend more then 199

ALSO with the lack of PS3 great games There is no reason to really run out to buy one.

If your into Rpg games the ps3 has what 1 ???

compair to the Wii what has 3 or 4 download older rpg games

be nice if sony took that hint and started to make older ps1 rpg games for download


ONE THING I GOT TO WONDER ABOUT. now since the PS3 cant play ps2 games i wonder if sony is going to pull this crap and put a ton of PS2 games online for download for 5 to 10 per pop

[dallow]

Slidecage, how old are you?

[Mechafenris]

at least around here the PS2 was never in DEMAND. hell the first day you could walk into best buy at 4pm and pick one up the first day.


Ps2 really never fell into the main stream until they fell to 179 BUT even then you could play the PS1 games

With no BC got to wonder what a PS3 price would be main stream range.

with going out and buying all new games i doubt an avg person wouldnt spend more then 199

ALSO with the lack of PS3 great games There is no reason to really run out to buy one.

If your into Rpg games the ps3 has what 1 ???

compair to the Wii what has 3 or 4 download older rpg games

be nice if sony took that hint and started to make older ps1 rpg games for download


ONE THING I GOT TO WONDER ABOUT. now since the PS3 cant play ps2 games i wonder if sony is going to pull this crap and put a ton of PS2 games online for download for 5 to 10 per pop

BC isn't gone... the 80GB still has it. They've not announced a total ban on BC...

[GizmoGC]

Slidecage, how old are you?

IIRC, at one point he said he was 27....and had kids....

[dallow]

IIRC, at one point he said he was 27....and had kids....You're joking.
Tell me he's joking slidecage.

[loserboy]

I'm not sure if he's 27, but I'm going to be 41 next week, and I have two kids too...hurray....and I broke down last month and bought a 60gb model from amazon SOLELY BECAUSE of bc...glad I did...because as we all know, the best game on the PS3 is God of War 2...

[dallow]

I'm not sure if he's 27, but I'm going to be 41 next week, and I have two kids too...hurray....and I broke down last month and bought a 60gb model from amazon SOLELY BECAUSE of bc...glad I did...because as we all know, the best game on the PS3 is God of War 2...60gb is pretty much the version to get.

[loserboy]

60gb is pretty much the version to get.

Couldn't agree more....just being able to plop in any of my games without worrying about bc, or maybe finally after 10 years or so finishing FFVIII (yes, that's an 8)...I like the flexibility and the ease of having just one machine....

I guess when I think about it, having a Wii that plays gamecube games, a 360 that plays most of the big xbox games, and a PS3 that plays all PS2 and PS1 games...well, shit, that's a wealth of games available to be played on three systems...now if only I had the time...

[zewone]

dallow, I expect you to let us know how much Sony is going to be selling the 60GB for on Nov. 2nd.

[dallow]

dallow, I expect you to let us know how much Sony is going to be selling the 60GB for on Nov. 2nd.If I had to guess..... $449.

I'll buy you a coke if I'm wrong.

[js1]

Does anyone know if the 40gb has wireless wifi built in?

[lanzarlaluna]

Does anyone know if the 40gb has wireless wifi built in?Yes, it does.

[FriskyTanuki]

Does anyone know if the 40gb has wireless wifi built in?
It does.

[FriskyTanuki]

at least around here the PS2 was never in DEMAND. hell the first day you could walk into best buy at 4pm and pick one up the first day.
Anecdote =/= Fact. The PS2 sold at least 10 million before the Xbox and GC were even out. For me, the it was pretty much impossible to get a PS2 near launch if you didn't pre-order beforehand.

Ps2 really never fell into the main stream until they fell to 179 BUT even then you could play the PS1 games
It was mainstream when GT3 and GTAIII came out and brought a lot of casual gamers into the fold while MGS2 and FFX brought in the hardcore gamers by the end of the PS2's first year. The great sales definitely picked up even more when the PS2 dropped to $200.

With no BC got to wonder what a PS3 price would be main stream range.

with going out and buying all new games i doubt an avg person wouldnt spend more then 199
$249 seems to be the magical price point for now.

ALSO with the lack of PS3 great games There is no reason to really run out to buy one.
It's subjective.

If your into Rpg games the ps3 has what 1 ???
Marvel Ultimate Alliance
Oblivion
Folklore
Enchanted Arms
Untold Legends

compair to the Wii what has 3 or 4 download older rpg games

be nice if sony took that hint and started to make older ps1 rpg games for download
Move to Japan then.

ONE THING I GOT TO WONDER ABOUT. now since the PS3 cant play ps2 games i wonder if sony is going to pull this crap and put a ton of PS2 games online for download for 5 to 10 per pop
The PS3 can play PS2 games,

[The Mana Knight]

If I had to guess..... $449.

I'll buy you a coke if I'm wrong.They won't change its price and here's why:

It should be left at $500. The amount of 60GB PS3 consoles left is getting small. If Sony lowered it to $450, that could hurt the 40GB and 80GB. It would hurt the 80GB because many who do not want MotorStorm (and who know about EE) will buy it and it would probably exceed the supply. If it does, you'll be left with a group of people not getting a PS3 because the 60GB was gone. People will complain the 40GB lacks PS2 BC (which the 60GB had for an extra $50), and they'll complain the 80GB doesn't have as full BC or being forced to get a game they don't want for an extra $50. People would be screaming for Sony to do another pricecut. There's still some demand for the 60GB. And many times around Christmas time, retailers sell out of just about everything. And if there's only 60GB consoles left on the shelves (meaning 80GB and 40GB is sold out), then people will have to buy the 60GB.

Everyone, I wouldn't be mean to slidecage. He's a good guy.

[Blackout]

sorry but the avg. mother isnt going to run out and spend 400 bucks for a system that will NOT Play the older games.

now maybe if the PS3 HAD some MUST PLAY GAMES i could see spending 400 bucks for a sytem BUT no chance in hell most people minds will be changed.

Hell people bitched at the PS2 at 300 bucks and that INCLUDED bACKWARDS ps1 playable games BUT think the PS3 at 400 is a good deal with no BC is good LOL

The average kid probably has his PS2 games disc only scattered around the house. It's not going to matter if he can play his Madden 2004 or GTA3. New games will make people forget about the PS2 games. Moms are not going to be doing hardcore research on systems. Whatever their kid wants they are going to buy.

[gunm]

So now Tretton is saying via the Wall Street Journal that BC was removed to "encourage PS3 software sales" (paraphrased)? And I thought putting out more games and making sure cross platform ports arrive at the same time as the competition with the same features or better was the correct way..? Sony just has to stop giving interviews already.

[zewone]

So, I was reading the PS3 wikipedia, and it states that the 40GB will be the first PS3 with no SACD support.

I find that to be a strange omission, not that I would ever use it, but I wonder how much (if any) they save from not including the support?

[The Mana Knight]

So now Tretton is saying via the Wall Street Journal that BC was removed to "encourage PS3 software sales" (paraphrased)? And I thought putting out more games and making sure cross platform ports arrive at the same time as the competition with the same features or better was the correct way..? Sony just has to stop giving interviews already.Tretton is a good guy, but really bad at interviews (Kind of like me). He has nothing to do with the reason PS2 BC was removed (It was up to SCEI and Sony Corp themselves). I think what Tretton meant was, with a cheaper PS3, this will now give those more money to buy PS3 games along with their PS3.

I hate it when people jump all over a mistake someone says, because not everyone is a perfect communicator.

Here's an article, stating the 40GB still has PS1 BC:
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/828/828443p1.html

[Mechafenris]

So, I was reading the PS3 wikipedia, and it states that the 40GB will be the first PS3 with no SACD support.

I find that to be a strange omission, not that I would ever use it, but I wonder how much (if any) they save from not including the support?

The sad part is, I didn't even know it had SACD support in the first place (not that I have any....) I'm not sure that SACD got any more support than DVD-Audio... It was chalked up to being a DRM-laden successor to the CD... but no one really wanted to replace their CDs.

I'm sure SACD support removal will be like removing two usb ports... a few will notice... (possibly only those with an axe to grind, being overly hung up on the 40 GB's lack of BC), but most will never miss it. :)

[NamPaehc]

Tretton is a good guy, but really bad at interviews (Kind of like me). He has nothing to do with the reason PS2 BC was removed (It was up to SCEI and Sony Corp themselves). I think what Tretton meant was, with a cheaper PS3, this will now give those more money to buy PS3 games along with their PS3.

I hate it when people jump all over a mistake someone says, because not everyone is a perfect communicator.

Here's an article, stating the 40GB still has PS1 BC:
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/828/828443p1.html

Well I DO think that the new SKU will help boost PS3 software sales because I know friends who want a PS3- just for PS3 games.

And Tretton is right. If you want to play old games that bad, you can buy a PS3 and a PS2 for less the a PS3 with BC built in...

[zewone]

And Tretton is right. If you want to play old games that bad, you can buy a PS3 and a PS2 for less the a PS3 with BC built in...
No, you can't.

PS2 = $129
40GB = $400
_____________

$529

60GB = $500
_____________

$500

[NamPaehc]

No, you can't.

PS2 = $129
40GB = $400
_____________

$529

60GB = $500
_____________

$500
Well what he actually said, is that a year ago (price was $100 more for the 60GB) you could have gotten two systems for less then one. I took it as, the 80GB's MSRP (though it is less at some places) compaired to the 40GB and a PS2 but wasn't the way I wrote it.

[Tsukento]

Peter: So, again, the ability to get them a PS3 at $399 became more important than maintaining that. We're the only company that's been able to tackle backwards compatibility at all. No other platform from our competitors has been able to do it.

*face palm*

I seriously don't know what the hell happened to Sony.