Get those maracas ready... Samba de Amigo coming to Wii

[evilmax17]

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/8361/npcovergw2hx2.jpg

“Long before Guitar Hero took the world by storm, cult classic Samba de Amigo (For Dreamcast and arcades) was helping gamers connect with the inner musicians. Players would shake a pair of plastic maracas (and occasionally strike a pose) as a sombero-wearing monkey and other bits of assorted madness danced around the screen.

If that sounds like a perfect fit for Wii, Sega agrees; the publisher will bring a new installment in the series to Nintendo’s console sometime next year.

Detailes are scarse, but you’ll shake the Wii remote and nunchuk as you would the maracas (naturally), and the soundtrack will feature a mix of new and classic tunes. Surprisingly, the developer on the title is Gearbox Software, best known for its work on the acclaimed Brothers in Arms franchise.”

[mykevermin]

Now that's fuckin' AWESOME.

[Charron]

I knew this day would come.

Actually I didn't. I just kinda hoped it would.

[pygmy carnotaur]

It's an obviously good choice for Wii. And an awesome one.

[Derrick1979]

Wow wonder when people are going to get sick of all these ports and remakes or gimmick games to get people to use the Wii-motes... Maybe after Mario Galaxy and SSBB comes out and they have no real games forcasted after that...

[Jedi1979]

Wow wonder when people are going to get sick of all these ports and remakes or gimmick games to get people to use the Wii-motes... Maybe after Mario Galaxy and SSBB comes out and they have no real games forcasted after that...


Samba De amigo will get more exposure on the Wii then it ever got on the Dreamcast...and isnt the whole point to be able to use the Wiimote, or am i missing something

[bmulligan]

I'm guessing it's going to have spectacularly updated graphics and be $50.

[jbuck138]

I never played the Dreamcast version, but was always interested in it. This could be cool.

[Derrick1979]

Samba De amigo will get more exposure on the Wii then it ever got on the Dreamcast...and isnt the whole point to be able to use the Wiimote, or am i missing something


yeah that was a rant part im just tired of seeing remakes and ports and would like to see more original games besides the ones nintendo has on the horizon...

[Scrubking]

Wow wonder when people are going to get sick of all these ports and remakes or gimmick games to get people to use the Wii-motes... Maybe after Mario Galaxy and SSBB comes out and they have no real games forcasted after that...

the publisher will bring a new installment in the series to Nintendo’s console sometime next year.

new installment

If there is anything that I have noticed is that Wii hate is accompanied by lots and lots of stupidity.

[SpazX]

You forgot that the Wii isn't allowed to have sequels.

Btw, I never played the original samba de amigo although I always wanted to. I didn't want to shell out the cash for it. I'd like to bust my samba cherry with this though, I hope it turns out well.

[daroga]

Count me in as someone interested but who never played the DC original. I could never justify spending the cash on the real maracas.

This is awesome. Can't wait :)

[CouRageouS]

Now the question is if they'll go with Nunchuk or two Wiimotes. Hopefully two Wiimotes so the cord won't hold you back from your wild and sexy moves.

[Gden]

My guess is the wireless Nunchuk will come out JUST in time for this.

[arnoldrimmer]

Oh God I think I need to change my underwear.

I'm someone who has played and loved the DC version and if this is online I think I'll have a heart attack.

[Friend of Sonic]

Surprisingly, the developer on the title is Gearbox Software, best known for its work on the acclaimed Brothers in Arms franchise.”

:-s

[lilboo]

This is nice! I TOO never played the original but have always been interested in it!

[pete5883]

How would this even work, technologically? I don't know about in the arcades, but the Dreamcast version needed a sensor on the floor. Now they're not going to make you point the remote at the screen, and the remote doesn't have the technology to sense height... so something's missing.

[Nohbdy]

How would this even work, technologically? I don't know about in the arcades, but the Dreamcast version needed a sensor on the floor. Now they're not going to make you point the remote at the screen, and the remote doesn't have the technology to sense height... so something's missing.

Accelerometers.

[guido_anchovy_9]

It's about damn time. Hopefully it'll have good music to accompany it. The US Donkey Kongas didn't thrill me as much.

[pete5883]

Accelerometers.
Accelerometers can tell if the remote is moving. They can not tell how high off of the ground you are holding them.

[SpazX]

Accelerometers can tell if the remote is moving. They can not tell how high off of the ground you are holding them.

Well why did it need to sense height? Was that a separate part of the game or just a roundabout way of representing that you're shaking the maraca?

[Travelsized]

Well why did it need to sense height? Was that a separate part of the game or just a roundabout way of representing that you're shaking the maraca?

In addition to shaking the maracas on beat, you needed to have them in the correct position. There were 6 beat positions: high, medium, and low on the left and right sides. The original game used a light sensor on the floor to determine height. In addition, you weren't limited to always keeping the maracas on their individual sides. It was very common to see the upper and lower beats getting hit on the same side at the same time, or even both beats in the same spot.

Occasionally, the game would stop the beats (but the music kept going) and show you a pose to mimic. The pose would require you to hold the maracas in two of the targets. Again, height matters. (Sticking your butt out to one side when both maracas were on the other side was optional, but hard to resist.)

The fact that the beats kept moving and you had to keep moving very quickly while shaking the maracas to keep up with them made this (surprisingly) a very physical game. Most people couldn't last for more than 2 or 3 songs the first time they played it. Your arms got very tired, very fast. But it was a fun workout. I remember when I started getting really good at it, I played for 45 minutes and had to go take a shower because I had worked up a sweat. Later that day, I crushed a walnut with my forearm. :D

I look forward to the day when I may welcome our new samba overlords. I don't know how they're going to really nail the height detection, but if it plays as well as the original, I'm there on day 1. Personally, I hope they use two wiimotes instead of the nunchuck, so that I can get a rattle from each speaker.

[Vinny]

Wow... that was came out of nowhere! Freakkin' sweet!

[abilyk]

In addition to shaking the maracas on beat, you needed to have them in the correct position. There were 6 beat positions: high, medium, and low on the left and right sides. The original game used a light sensor on the floor to determine height. In addition, you weren't limited to always keeping the maracas on their individual sides. It was very common to see the upper and lower beats getting hit on the same side at the same time, or even both beats in the same spot.

Occasionally, the game would stop the beats (but the music kept going) and show you a pose to mimic. The pose would require you to hold the maracas in two of the targets. Again, height matters. (Sticking your butt out to one side when both maracas were on the other side was optional, but hard to resist.)

The fact that the beats kept moving and you had to keep moving very quickly while shaking the maracas to keep up with them made this (surprisingly) a very physical game. Most people couldn't last for more than 2 or 3 songs the first time they played it. Your arms got very tired, very fast. But it was a fun workout. I remember when I started getting really good at it, I played for 45 minutes and had to go take a shower because I had worked up a sweat. Later that day, I crushed a walnut with my forearm. :D

I look forward to the day when I may welcome our new samba overlords. I don't know how they're going to really nail the height detection, but if it plays as well as the original, I'm there on day 1. Personally, I hope they use two wiimotes instead of the nunchuck, so that I can get a rattle from each speaker.

Good summary. I've got Samba and its Japan-only sequel on the Dreamcast and multiple sets of maracas, and it's a fantastic game. The peripherals really are integral to the game, though. The rattle of the maracas help sell the experience, and the position detection needs to be spot on. I'm all for seeing a sequel, but only if they get it right. With a different (and what sounds like a US-based) developer, and a good likelihood they'll use Wii Remotes/nunchucks as opposed to a whole new set of peripherals, I'm wary for the time being.

[akushin]

Awesome news! I heard about the Dreamcast one all the time but could never find it around me. I can just about hear the wiimote rattling now...

[judyjudyjudy]

Sweeeet! I'm yet another person who couldn't shell out cash for the Dreamcast version that is thrilled to hear this is coming for the Wii. Glad to see this didn't end up in the wishful thinking pile.

[yukine]

I never played the Dreamcast version, but I've heard it's awesome. Can't wait for this, I'll pick it up if it turns out relatively decent.

[mykevermin]

http://xbox360.qj.net/Ubisoft-cancels-Brothers-in-Arms-Hell-s-Highway/pg/49/aid/103213

Only somewhat related, the Brothers in Arms sequel has been canceled. Not having played those games, I hope this is not an indirect indictment of Gearbox as a developer. Bad developers are fine. Bad developers ruining a great franchise, though...

[botticus]

http://xbox360.qj.net/Ubisoft-cancels-Brothers-in-Arms-Hell-s-Highway/pg/49/aid/103213

Only somewhat related, the Brothers in Arms sequel has been canceled. Not having played those games, I hope this is not an indirect indictment of Gearbox as a developer. Bad developers are fine. Bad developers ruining a great franchise, though...They also seem to have reduced the impending Wii release of BiA from a bundle of both games to just one of the two.

[shrike4242]

Sweeeet! I'm yet another person who couldn't shell out cash for the Dreamcast version that is thrilled to hear this is coming for the Wii. Glad to see this didn't end up in the wishful thinking pile.Ditto here.

[bluesyncopate]

Call me cautiously optimistic.

I have the Dreamcast version, and although the combination of floor sensors and wires are a little unwieldy, in practice they work pretty well. I have NO idea how they're going to translate this two-handed "height placement" game into something that both accurately reproduces the very physical elements of the first game(s), and also does not make one hand's control more sensitive than the other (Wii Boxing, anyone?) with some kind of half-baked nunchuck implementation.

We'll see.

[dmaul1114]

Loved this on the DC, but will likely pass this time. The GH series pretty much has my music gaming needs covered. Not really into the genre enough to devote time to multiple games.

But awesome news for those that missed out on the DC game as it was a blast!

I do question how the control will work without the height sensors. But then again, unless I missed something, they haven't said it would use the Wiimote/nunchuk yet have they? Maybe it will just come with maracas and the floor sensor?

I don't think it would be as fun playing withthe Wiimote/nunchuk vs. the maracas. Part of the appeal was the maraca controlers (just like the guitar controller in the GH series, or the Bongos in the Donkey Konga games.).

[Foo228]

I'm guessing it's going to have spectacularly updated graphics and be $50.

probably haha

I never played the Dreamcast version, but was always interested in it. This could be cool.

same here :-|

[abilyk]

Nintendo Power article says that it'll use Wii Remote and Nunchuk. I don't expect this to turn out to be an adequate sequel to the game, though I hope they prove me wrong.

[pete5883]

I guess if they completely change the game it would work. But then it's not Samba De Amigo anymore.

[mbartholow]

Good summary. I've got Samba and its Japan-only sequel on the Dreamcast and multiple sets of maracas, and it's a fantastic game. The peripherals really are integral to the game, though. The rattle of the maracas help sell the experience, and the position detection needs to be spot on. I'm all for seeing a sequel, but only if they get it right. With a different (and what sounds like a US-based) developer, and a good likelihood they'll use Wii Remotes/nunchucks as opposed to a whole new set of peripherals, I'm wary for the time being.

I'm also an owner of the US/Japanese games/sets (friends and I STILL play it often, and they shelled out for their own gear as well). It would seem possible to me that the vibration/speaker of the wiimote could compensate for the lack of rattle. Or, if the world is truly a kind place, how about little rattle peripherals that clip onto the nunchuck/wiimote?

[Troz1820]

Ignoring the lack of actual maracas (a travesty in itself) I can't see how they will pull off the height detection of the original without butchering the gameplay. The Wiimote does not have the capability of detecting height. Could it be that they'll use the rotation sensors for the 3 "height" areas, using two wiimotes per player? I can't see this method working reliably enough for satisfying gameplay.

Example:
http://www.twistedrails.com/cag/samba_possible_controls.jpg

[dmaul1114]

Ignoring the lack of actual maracas (a travesty in itself) I can't see how they will pull off the height detection of the original without butchering the gameplay. The Wiimote does not have the capability of detecting height. Could it be that they'll use the rotation sensors for the 3 "height" areas, using two wiimotes per player? I can't see this method working reliably enough for satisfying gameplay.

Example:
http://www.twistedrails.com/cag/samba_possible_controls.jpg

But how would it work with the nunchuck in the other hand? Given the above poster said the NP article said it uses both rather than two wii motes.

But you're right, the lack of actual maracas pretty much kills the game IMO. That was what made it so great, you were playing along pretty much with the actual instrument. It was probably even more immersive than Guitar Hero since playing a real guitar is totally different, while maracas are maracas.

[Troz1820]

The same idea could be used with the Nunchuck since it has the same sensors inside as the Wiimote. I somehow glossed over abilyk's comment above.

[dmaul1114]

Are you sure they're the same? The nunchuck motion stuff always seems a lot less responsive than the Wiimote. And give the shape and size difference I don't see how they could fit it all in.

I was under the the impression that the Wiimote had accelorometors AND gyroscopes, and that's why it can be used for the tilt and rotational stuff (like opening doors in Metroid, the tiliting game in Zelda etc.) while the Nunchuch ONLY had accelorometers which is why it's just been used for thrusting motions (swinging the grapple in Metroid, shield thrust in Zelda, shake side to side to do spin attack in Zelda etc)?

[Rig]

I have wanted this for a long time.

Played the hell out of Samba, and even have a set of the official maracas.

Even took my DC online way back when to get the downloadable songs! :lol:

[Troz1820]

Are you sure they're the same? The nunchuck motion stuff always seems a lot less responsive than the Wiimote. And give the shape and size difference I don't see how they could fit it all in.

I was under the the impression that the Wiimote had accelorometors AND gyroscopes, and that's why it can be used for the tilt and rotational stuff (like opening doors in Metroid, the tiliting game in Zelda etc.) while the Nunchuch ONLY had accelorometers which is why it's just been used for thrusting motions (swinging the grapple in Metroid, shield thrust in Zelda, shake side to side to do spin attack in Zelda etc)?
From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii_Remote#Nunchuk):
Like the Wii Remote, the Nunchuk also provides accelerometer for three axis motion-sensing and tilting, but without a speaker, a rumble function, or a pointer function.

[dmaul1114]

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii_Remote#Nunchuk):
Like the Wii Remote, the Nunchuk also provides accelerometer for three axis motion-sensing and tilting, but without a speaker, a rumble function, or a pointer function.

Hmm. So neither have gyroscopes.

So I wonder why the Wimote is always used for the tilting stuff, and seems way more responsive than the nunchuck?

I generally never have any problems with any wiimote motions, but the nunchuck stuff in Zelda and Metroid sometimes didn't work great.

[pittpizza]

yeah everything with teh wiimote is perfect and the nunchuk is definitely clunkier. sometimes the metroid grapple wouldnt ever appear at all! This was extremely frustrating but banging on the nunchuk fixed it. (Dont know if some parts got stuck or something.)

I'm not bashing Wiisports or games like samba but I dont like what they do to the company. It seems that COD3/Zelda/Metroid/RE4 are the exceptions to the myth that "The Wii is for the casual gamer because it uses motion stuff that is easy for everybody." I have had a lot of fun with my Wii at parties where everyone loves bowling and having a homerun derby in Wii Sports, but thats not why I bought the system and that is not the way I personally wish the Wii to be viewed, as only good for the "non-gamer."

Admittedly this is what has enabled the Wii to sell so well and become so popular--that is this new casual gamer demographic--but it seems like it comes with the cost of the Wii not getting the respect of us "hard core" gamers. Samba, cookng mama, trauma center, raving rabbits, mario party, wii play, (none of which I have played) all seem to be adding fuel to this fire.

[dmaul1114]

That is a fair concern. With Metroid, Mario and Smash Bros all coming out this late summer/fall, my concerns are a bit alleviated. Along with stuff like No More Heroes and Battalian Wars 2 even though those aren't genre's I like.

So I'm hopefully we'll get enough "real" games for us serious gamers, just like the DS which has a lot for us, along with stuff like Brain Age for the casuals.

[Travelsized]

It's coming!

Gamespot has a hands-on preview (http://www.gamespot.com/wii/puzzle/sambadeamigo/news.html?sid=6189237&om_act=convert&om_clk=newlyadded&tag=newlyadded;title;1)

They like it, but they do say the controls took a bit to get used to.

Our big question revolved around the game's control, which seemed like it would be a good fit for the Wii. Our instinct proved to be pretty correct: The demo offered two control setups, a remote and a Nunchuk, and two remote options. The quirk, which is more of an issue for veteran Samba players than for newcomers to the series, is the input. The way the Wii controllers work with the sensor bar, it's not possible to track height. As a result, you'll have to hold the remotes at specific angles to register low, mid, and high shakes. It's a bit tricky at first, but after spending some time with the game, we started to get the hang of it. We should also point out that the game's control was still very much a work in progress, and Sega and Gearbox are working to get it right.

There's also a video interview (http://www.gamespot.com/video/943427/6189250/samba-de-amigo-interview-1), and a set of images (http://www.gamespot.com/wii/puzzle/sambadeamigo/images.html) from the game. Yes, it's just as bright and crazy as ever.

The interview shows people playing (their movements, not video of the game), which doesn't look too bad. Other noteworthy items include 40+ songs (new and old, including Santana and Gypsy Kings) and hustle mode from Samba 2K. It looks like there's Mii support (probably just for profiles and high scores).

Expected US release: late Summer.

[Rig]

The DC controls themselves were kinda flaky as well (mainly because it was so damn hard to keep everything aligned and such).

I'm hoping for the best. Going to be using the twin remotes for this one.

[blandstalker]

Hmmm.

I don't know what to think.

Dual remotes is good. Angled remotes is...well...hurm.

It was always a little tricky making sure you didn't move too much with the DC maracas, but if you were in the right place, they were really spot on.

Wondering if I should sell my DC version.

[pete5883]

<<<<< skeptical.

[snowmint]

I hope the game and good CAG deals happen here.

[snowmint]

http://www.ebgames.com/Catalog/ProductDetails.aspx?product_id=7754

Samba Wii to feature the Pay to play wi fi feature.

[lilboo]

Now 'Pay to Play' means it'll offer some DLC, mirite? Because the Final Fantasy:CC WiiWare game is a "PTP" game and there's DLC for it.

I'd imagine it means you can buy new songs, which of course for a game like that is pretty good news.
However, if it's to actually pay to play online? No thanks.

But I really do think it'll be DLC, and I'm fine with that. As long as it's not 400 points, AKA $4, a song.
$1, $2 at most per song would be fair IMO.

[LeafPanda]

So were only using the wiimote and the nunchuck?
I wanted to use maracas =(

[CombatCraig]

Now 'Pay to Play' means it'll offer some DLC, mirite? Because the Final Fantasy:CC WiiWare game is a "PTP" game and there's DLC for it.

I'd imagine it means you can buy new songs, which of course for a game like that is pretty good news.
However, if it's to actually pay to play online? No thanks.

But I really do think it'll be DLC, and I'm fine with that. As long as it's not 400 points, AKA $4, a song.
$1, $2 at most per song would be fair IMO.

So this does mean DLC is possible for other games like Rock Band and GH3 right?

I'm so confused

[ITDEFX]

So were only using the wiimote and the nunchuck?
I wanted to use maracas =(

I am sure a 3rd party maraca set is being developed.

[CouRageouS]

So this does mean DLC is possible for other games like Rock Band and GH3 right?

I'm so confused
DLC has always been possible but there isn't a place to store it so it was hard for the devs to support. They didn't really change anything from the PS2 version of Rock Band so don't expect DLC for that in the future. Also yesterday Harmonix announced an expansion disc for Rock Band PS2/Wii. And GH3 DLC isn't really supported to begin with, hence the 12 different discs coming soon.

Samba De Amigo was developed for the Wii specifically, so I'd imagine some sort of in game menu where you can download extra tracks, characters, etc. I'll wager you might be paying to unlock content thats already on the disc if there isn't a memory storage solution by the release date.

[Rig]

So were only using the wiimote and the nunchuck?
I wanted to use maracas =(

I think two Wiimotes will work.

But yeah, it's still no pair of maracas.

[vasco]

I am sure a 3rd party maraca set is being developed.

or attachtments like the NERF stuff for Wii Sports

[CombatCraig]

DLC has always been possible but there isn't a place to store it so it was hard for the devs to support. They didn't really change anything from the PS2 version of Rock Band so don't expect DLC for that in the future. Also yesterday Harmonix announced an expansion disc for Rock Band PS2/Wii. And GH3 DLC isn't really supported to begin with, hence the 12 different discs coming soon.

Samba De Amigo was developed for the Wii specifically, so I'd imagine some sort of in game menu where you can download extra tracks, characters, etc. I'll wager you might be paying to unlock content thats already on the disc if there isn't a memory storage solution by the release date.

I guess that's what I was all confused about. I knew about all of the above but it just threw me off guard that here is a game saying we have DLC. Unlocking it off a disc like Professor Layton did makes sense.

[LeafPanda]

Oh wait I remember now we need two wii remotes.
Doesn't that mean only 2 people can play at the same time?

[tsmvengy]

From what I've read you can use 2 remotes or remote+nunchuck.

[Rig]

Oh wait I remember now we need two wii remotes.
Doesn't that mean only 2 people can play at the same time?

The original game was only two players. I would've expected the same from this one.

(I never had Samba 2000...but I'm pretty sure it was only two player as well.)

[Tsukento]

Now 'Pay to Play' means it'll offer some DLC, mirite? Because the Final Fantasy:CC WiiWare game is a "PTP" game and there's DLC for it.

I'd imagine it means you can buy new songs, which of course for a game like that is pretty good news.
However, if it's to actually pay to play online? No thanks.

But I really do think it'll be DLC, and I'm fine with that. As long as it's not 400 points, AKA $4, a song.
$1, $2 at most per song would be fair IMO.
The main gripe I have is that considering the game is basically a revamped port of the first two titles with additional content, it seems likely that they may stiff us into paying for unlockable songs that were made available to unlock through the Dreamcast's online network.

In short, that would mean they'd be making us pay for songs we were able to download a file online to unlock the songs that were already coded onto the disc for FREE.

What makes this more difficult is the lack of a hard drive for the Wii.

[Justin42]

The original game was only two players. I would've expected the same from this one.

(I never had Samba 2000...but I'm pretty sure it was only two player as well.)

Huh? You could play either game single player...

[Rig]

Huh? You could play either game single player...

I meant "only (max of) two players." Meaning they weren't four-player games.

[vherub]

trailer up on ign:

http://media.wii.ign.com/media/966/966047/vids_1.html

[snowmint]

http://hmv.com/hmvweb/displayProductDetails.do?sku=808567&WT.mc_id=101471&batuid=1000&affiliate=buyat&lpgrp=network&WT.mc_id=101450#anchorScreenshots

Thank you SEGA :P

[Rig]

http://hmv.com/hmvweb/displayProductDetails.do?sku=808567&WT.mc_id=101471&batuid=1000&affiliate=buyat&lpgrp=network&WT.mc_id=101450#anchorScreenshots

Thank you SEGA :P

:applause: YES!

[MorPhiend]

I saw this earlier too. Maraca attachments make me happy. :)

[cochesecochese]

They should have given this bongo support. Mariachi hero anaw.

[Friend of Sonic]

The attachments are awesome!

[Tsukento]

They should have given this bongo support. Mariachi hero anaw.
How the hell would that work?

[Rig]

Anybody else notice that the link snowmint posted now has dropped the picture of the box showing maracas? Hmm...

[CouRageouS]

Thats interesting. That would suck if they accidentally used a fan made image and it wasn't real.

[Rig]

Thats interesting. That would suck if they accidentally used a fan made image and it wasn't real.

Yes, that was my first concern. I hope that isn't the case.

[Halo05]

No maracas = no buy

Sorry Nintendo/Sega, I'd rather go hunt down some DC maracas than have the glorious experience diluted by an absence of maracas.

[cochesecochese]

How the hell would that work?

I don't know. It was a joke (a poor one).

Someone please kill me. Mexican firing squad style.

[CouRageouS]

No maracas = no buy

Sorry Nintendo/Sega, I'd rather go hunt down some DC maracas than have the glorious experience diluted by an absence of maracas.
If those maracas attachments are indeed real, they still wouldn't add any functionality. You could ducktape your wiimotes to some real maracas and it would be the same!

[Halo05]

That sounds like a challenge. You're on.

[snowmint]

I see te Nintendo channel is starting the hype for the game.

[Cao Cao]

Final Tracklist is up at Kotaku, along with news of a cameo of Ulala from Space Channel 5:
http://kotaku.com/5039700/you-seem-to-have-got-ulala-in-my-samba-di-amigo-plus-final-tracklist-details

[Rig]

Good to see.

Now, I just hope the rumors about downloading additional tracks was true...and if so, I hope they ain't pricey.

[Ryuukishi]

cameo of Ulala from Space Channel 5This just became a definite buy for me. One step closer to my dream of a full Space Channel 5 sequel on Wii!

[Tsukento]

Good to see.

Now, I just hope the rumors about downloading additional tracks was true...and if so, I hope they ain't pricey.
The game's cover has the red Wi-Fi stamp on it. So downloadable tracks is definitely happening. One of the recent ads for the game have stated there will be DLC.

What will be frustrating is that it's likely some of the SEGA tunes from the Dreamcast versions will likely be available as well, thus making it something you have to pay for that you originally got for free back in the Dreamcast days.

[Rig]

The game's cover has the red Wi-Fi stamp on it. So downloadable tracks is definitely happening. One of the recent ads for the game have stated there will be DLC.

What will be frustrating is that it's likely some of the SEGA tunes from the Dreamcast versions will likely be available as well, thus making it something you have to pay for that you originally got for free back in the Dreamcast days.

Yeah, I suppose so.

I'm still hoping the maraca-box shown before was indeed true...though since there's been no word since, I'm guessing that was a fake.

[Friend of Sonic]

I really, really see this game being a huge hit for the casual people for Wii. They need to do those Maraca attachements though, no matter to how useless they really are.

[bornrunnin31]

The first pack of DLC was mentioned on joystiq.

Additionally, Samba's first downloadable song pack will be available for purchase on September 23 -- a long-term storage solution is still up in the air (http://www.joystiq.com/2008/07/16/sega-unconcerned-about-wii-storage-falling/). All song packs will include three songs by their original performers. Sega has not confirmed songs for individual purchase nor announced pricing. The first pack will include:


Mambo Mambo – Lou Bega
I Want Candy – Bow Wow Wow
Are you Going to Be My Girl – Jet

[Cao Cao]

Well, at the very least, it seems that the maraca attachments are real:
http://www.amazon.com/Wii-Maracas-Nintendo/dp/B001ELEXPW/

Still no word on whether they will include a set with the game or not.

[Rig]

Well, at the very least, it seems that the maraca attachments are real:
http://www.amazon.com/Wii-Maracas-Nintendo/dp/B001ELEXPW/

Still no word on whether they will include a set with the game or not.

The problem I see with that is that one is molded for the nunchuk, and one for the remote. I plan on playing with two Wiimotes, so I certainly don't want to have to buy two pairs of shells to get two Wiimote molded ones. :(

[snowmint]

Game of the Wii guys. This needs to be a top seller.

[snowmint]

Just saw a commercial. Game comes out next week and I am hyped and its only 40 bucks I think.

[4tygames]

And IGN says that the controls suck in the game.

Disappointing.... I can't believe the developers did not spend more time on the controls.

http://wii.ign.com/articles/910/910586p1.html

[lilboo]

:wall:

[Rig]

Damn it!

"But this is a casual game, and on the lower settings the game's charm and colorful visuals will win a lot of people over."

"But here in the IGN office, fans of the original Samba pick up the remotes, crank up the difficulty, and find the controls to be almost unworkable."

Ugh. The DC version was pretty similar in that regard; you got to the hardest difficulty, and the damn maracas wouldn't always register your moves. I was hoping they'd get that worked out for this one. :bomb:

[evergoo]

Darth Vader: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

Will edit post after reading but right now...:-(

[lilboo]

Oh well. Bargain bin + 1

[Travelsized]

In the video review he seems to be doing okay. I'll probably try to rent this and try the controls for myself.

[Justin42]

That's really not good. I was hoping this would be as amazing as the original.

That said the review seems AWFULLY short-- basically a "How's the Wii version if you already know everything about the original?" sort of review. I'll be interested to see how overall reviews go...

[Rig]

I preordered from Amazon credit I got from Trainn...and was waiting for the reviews to decide.

I love Samba so much...but if they are right about the controls, I'm sure it will affect me. I was going to start on the highest difficulty to begin with.

Maybe I will keep my preorder...since it "technically" only cost me a few bucks. Still mad though.

[rjung]

Awaiting firsthand reports. Since I suck at music games and probably would never get out of "Easy" mode anyway, the controls might not be an issue.

--R.J.

[snowmint]

Same for me. I still wonder how the "DLC" will work in this game.

[pete5883]

Disappointing.... I can't believe the developers did not spend more time on the controls.
Don't blame the developers:

Beyond that, the limitations of the Wii remote's motion sensing capabilities become apparent at the exact point you really need them to be reliable. Try as Gearbox might, the bald truth is that the Wiimote is far from an exact instrument in precisely judging where you're shaking. Time and again, just as you're building up a great multiplier, a simple repetitive moment can be misinterpreted, leaving you staring balefully at your hands, wondering why thatshake was deemed incorrect when all the others were fine. At lower skill levels, you can afford the odd hardware-related slip-up; you'll make it through anyway. But, really, the routines are basic enough that you shouldn't be making any mistakes.

Needless to say, the imprecise nature of the controls starts to weigh heavily once you're faced with more complex routines and manoeuvres. You'll go from being able to do each song with pretty much with your eyes shut to hitting a brick wall the minute you progress to Hard mode. The games almost works perfectly when asking the player to perform very deliberate actions, but demands an unreasonable level of precision later on - a level of precision that is currently beyond the Wiimote.

Eurogamer - 6/10 (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=239694)

[blandstalker]

Well, then, isn't it the job of the developers to implement the game in such a way that the limitations of the controls are taken into account?

I know that some people would be outraged if they changed the game too much in order to make it work correctly on the Wii. But they already changed it pretty significantly in order to track high, medium, and low. I know I would rather have a game that works, even if it's different than the original, than a game that is impossible to play.

Sigh. At least I still have my original.

[Rig]

That's what I was thinking, blandstalker.

Would MotionControl+ (or whatever) had helped? If it had, I wish they would've pushed this and waited for it.

That, or make something that got it right.

[lilboo]

That's what I'm thinking.

Once the WiiMotion+ comes out, the Wii is kinda pointless right now. I am getting hype over thing with motion control until this comes out. Maybe then our games will be decent and NOT broken.

[pete5883]

Well, then, isn't it the job of the developers to implement the game in such a way that the limitations of the controls are taken into account?
It is, but they aren't miracle workers.

[wii skiier]

It is, but they aren't miracle workers.
Some developers have been able to work within these limitations to achieve great results. I'll wait to judge until I play this, as it seems to be varied enough in reviews that it sounds like one of the Wii games where reviewers don't naturally adapt to the control scheme and rather than change their play style (like you would with a traditional controller) they blame the game.

I never played the original though, so I don't have any expectations.

[pete5883]

I'll wait to judge until I play this, as it seems to be varied enough in reviews that it sounds like one of the Wii games where reviewers don't naturally adapt to the control scheme and rather than change their play style (like you would with a traditional controller) they blame the game.

:roll:

[wii skiier]

:roll:
I can't tell if your little man is rolling his eyes at my stupidity or smirking in solidarity. Given the nature of the medium, I'll assume it's the former. I'll hold further comment until I get first-hand experience with the game.

[snowmint]

Gonna pick this baby up with some maracas at Best Buy. Can't wait to play them after school.

[rjung]

Dueling firsthand impressions of Samba (not by me, I just wanted to share):
EmCeeGramr (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12929253&postcount=209):
Thats all folks. This is going back pronto. Ive tried the same song on hard like ten times and feel like I'm making no progress. Gearbox and their disengenous claims of getting the controls right is what pisses me off the most. As far as I can tell the calibration doesnt make a lick of difference either.
vs.
HUELEN10: (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12929412&postcount=211)
Just got it about 3 hours ago and I am loving it.

Well that is after a 70 minute learning curve..............


No game should have a learning curve this huge, but once you nail it, you "get" it. It is very awkward at first.HUELEN10: (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12929690&postcount=216)
(After playing on "Hard"):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v283/huelen1/IMG_0753.jpg
And I ALMOST made an "A" rank had it not been for some stupid mistakes on my part near the beginning.

I don't think the controls are shit, I think the learning curve is just way too fucking high.


--R.J.

[Justin42]

Sigh, I came very close to blind buying this but there was a nagging feeling they'd screw something up....

I guess I wait for the (probably fairly rapid) descent to the bargain bin. :(

[lilboo]

Sega games tend to drop quickly on the Wii. :)
This should be $20 in no time!

[Rig]

As soon as my Amazon copy ships, I will definitely be giving it a rigorous play through.

Too bad Super Saver shows shipping on the 29th...blah.

[lilboo]

As soon as my Amazon copy ships, I will definitely be giving it a rigorous play through.

Too bad Super Saver shows shipping on the 29th...blah.

I see what you did there. 8-)

[snowmint]

Im laughing at how thoses Dreamcast pros at Samba can't get a A rank on easy mode while Im first time player in the Samba series and have done almost all A ranks on my Easy mode.:P

[rjung]

Yeah, from the impressions I'm reading, experienced Samba players are having more problems adjusting to the Wii controls than the newbies.

--R.J.

[EXStrike]

My copy of Samba is on its way.

[Rig]

I see what you did there. 8-)

Yes sir!

Im laughing at how thoses Dreamcast pros at Samba can't get a A rank on easy mode while Im first time player in the Samba series and have done almost all A ranks on my Easy mode.:P

Damn. I probably shouldn't have got the DC version out and played it all week. :l

[Daisydog]

I've never played Samba de Amigo so I figured I'd give this a rent from Gamefly. I'm no stranger to DDR or Ouendan games.

Having just completed hard mode I'd say that the controls are indeed frustrating at times. But once you figure out how to hold the wii remotes (and it seems to vary from song to song) you can get a whole rhythm going and do quite well. I got a few As and mostly Bs through most of the songs on hard mode.
I only failed a song once, and then I re-played it and got a B.

I haven't attempted Super Hard mode, I don't think my arms can take it right now. The songs seem short though. I expected DDR length. I've played it twice. Completed easy mode in one sitting and then medium and hard mode just now in my second sitting.

Controls,
The left side is fine. The right side targets give me problems :bomb: I'm using two Wii remotes and having to hold the right remote as if it's laying on its right side. Actually, standing sideways seems to give me more accuracy at times :lol:
--

The fun factor is definitely there. And the copy I got from GF is brand new. I'm considering buying it, unless you guys think there's going to be a significant price drop on this like with the Donkey Kong music game for the game cube. What is that one, like $10?

[wii skiier]

The fun factor is definitely there. And the copy I got from GF is brand new. I'm considering buying it, unless you guys think there's going to be a significant price drop on this like with the Donkey Kong music game for the game cube. What is that one, like $10?
It'll drop, and pretty fast. Did you notice how fast Sega Superstars Tennis dropped? Of the Sega ports so far, only House of the Dead has really held it's original MSRP and that's probably thanks to name recognition from years in the arcades. Unless Gamefly is offering you a really good deal, you could probably hold out on this one.

[Daisydog]

Super hard mode was pretty difficult. It kept taking me 2-3 tries to beat a song, but then I calibrated the controllers and was able to start beating songs on the first try again 8-) Although barely! A C is a passing grade, so i need to work on getting better grades.

It'll drop, and pretty fast. Did you notice how fast Sega Superstars Tennis dropped? Of the Sega ports so far, only House of the Dead has really held it's original MSRP and that's probably thanks to name recognition from years in the arcades. Unless Gamefly is offering you a really good deal, you could probably hold out on this one.
Heh, you're probably right.

[fatbeer]

Controls,
The left side is fine. The right side targets give me problems :bomb: I'm using two Wii remotes and having to hold the right remote as if it's laying on its right side. Actually, standing sideways seems to give me more accuracy at times :lol: ?

I'm having the same problems as well. The right side is giving me problems when I'm using remote with nunchuck. Do two Wii remotes actually fix the problem? I'm going to recalibrate it and give it another shot.

[Daisydog]

I'm having the same problems as well. The right side is giving me problems when I'm using remote with nunchuck. Do two Wii remotes actually fix the problem? I'm going to recalibrate it and give it another shot.
I haven't tried it with the nunchuck cause I just know I'm going to forget and rip them too far apart, and ruin another nunchuck. :lol:

Calibrating it made my play area quite small. That makes things a lot better because now I don't lose track of the indicator at all, and I can easily adjust to the right position when I need to.

[fatbeer]

I haven't tried it with the nunchuck cause I just know I'm going to forget and rip them too far apart, and ruin another nunchuck. :lol:

Calibrating it made my play area quite small. That makes things a lot better because now I don't lose track of the indicator at all, and I can easily adjust to the right position when I need to.

Hmm.. I should put that in consideration. I don't want to replace broken controllers. There are few moments my nunchuck/remote became unattached when moving in frantic pace. And this coming from easy mode. I bet it's going to be a lot worse if I play on harder difficulty.

[Rig]

I finally got this today. Two weeks with Amazon's Super Saver shipping. (I need to learn to not be such a tightwad!)

Impressions:

This is still a great game....especially if you have never played the DC version. You won't know what you're missing that way. ;)

I dove right into the original mode, on hard difficulty (super hard is locked). On the DC, I could pull off 100%'s on most of the songs. On here, I was ending up with 96-99%'s. I played the DC version so much, I know the note patterns for the older songs! :lol:

Yes, the controls are not perfect. The complaining was valid. However, it is not too noticeable. In fact, if you aren't a "score-whore", you probably won't care about the occasional missed note.

Sadly, I am a score-whore. :l

In the original (and in this one), you could get more points by pointing both maracas at a single note. What I mean is:

O O

O -> OO

O O

In this case, one blue note is headed for the right side. To get more points, you can place both maracas at that note, and by shaking them together, you get extra points. That's how you get higher scores. In this Wii version it is much harder, and riskier, to do this. Returning both maracas to their default locations takes an extra second after performing this move. On fast songs, it's almost deadly to your combo to try it. Maybe with more practice, I can perform it better. Still, I'm a bit spoiled by the DC version.

Hustle mode is a whole different beast. I never owned version 2000, but did get to play it a few times (friends of friends). The controls are definitely harder to get used to in Hustle mode. You are flung between exaggerated dance moves (which are FUN!), back to regular notes much too quickly for the Wiimotes. This mode will certainly be the most annoying for the score-whores.

Please buy this game. Pretty, pretty please? Especially if you:

have friends
and/or
never played the DC version

Though I haven't played multiplayer with friends yet (I just got it today!), I know they are gonna love this. Music games are the genre that I can get all the friends playing.

This is the first game in a while that has put Brawl back in its case. I plan on doing some side-by-side scores from both versions (DC and Wii).

And I want some friends on my list!
Friend Code: 3480-5440-5849

EDIT: Ugh. My diagram isn't formatting right. It looks good until I save my post. :l Ah well, you can figure it out.

[Justin42]

Probably really dumb question here-- I just got my Samba + maracas bundle order from Best Buy and the maracas are just called "Samba Samba", made by a company called "Game On" and say they are not endorsed or licenced by Sega or Nintendo.

Did Sega make an "official" set of maracas for the game, or are these it? Just making sure I didn't pay for "real" Sega maracas (Which I thought DID exist but maybe they don't?) and got 3rd party ones.

[alison]

Probably really dumb question here-- I just got my Samba + maracas bundle order from Best Buy and the maracas are just called "Samba Samba", made by a company called "Game On" and say they are not endorsed or licenced by Sega or Nintendo.

Did Sega make an "official" set of maracas for the game, or are these it? Just making sure I didn't pay for "real" Sega maracas (Which I thought DID exist but maybe they don't?) and got 3rd party ones.

I believe the only maracas are third party.

[yukine]

Yeah I think "Game On" makes them.

Pretty sure they are licensed though.

[Tsukento]

Not licensed. Says it on the box that they're not endorsed by Nintendo or SEGA. And they are indeed the only ones made. Oh well. I got mine for $5 at Best Buy when I got the game on the release week.

Good fun, but two gripes. One about the maracas, the other about the game. After just one song, your hands will HURT from tying to keep a grip around those huge handles. I found myself taking the maracas off and just playing with my Wiimote and nunchuck.

As for the game, as mentioned before, the controls are far from perfect. It gets very annoying pointing the control in the CORRECT direction and the game not recognizing it or thinking you're pointing in the wrong direction. Especially annoying when you have to shake the maracas rapidly to hit the red notes and the game decides not to register one of them (usually the Wiimote) being shaken and gives you a fat ol' X for it.

Other than that, the game's great and the bigger music library's definitely a step up from the first game. Glad to see there's music from the second game as well. Hopefully we'll see some SEGA music pop up as DLC.

[yukine]

Wow, then Sega and Nintendo are stupid as fuck.

[Tsukento]

It's funny considering SEGA sold out of the Samba de Amigo maracas/mats back on the Dreamcast back in the day. You'd figure they'd try it again. Maybe it would've helped since the Wii's waggling detection isn't anywhere as good as the Dreamcast's detection was.

[pygmy carnotaur]

I don't really get the control complaints. I was willing to give reviewers a chance thinking maybe they were right and I'd realize it once I hit the harder difficulty levels, but now that I've actually made it to superhard, I have no choice but to say the reviewers that claimed the controls were broken are just wrong.

It is true that on occasion the game will fail to register one of the remotes, but this happens maybe once out of every 10 songs or so, and it's preventable if you're careful. This is a minor annoyance, but at most it will cause you to miss one shake very infrequently.

All I'm saying is, I've never played Samba before and I've only had this game a week. If the controls are broken, I shouldn't be able to 100% some songs on hard on my first try, or get A's on superhard on my first try.

I will say that there is a big learning curve because it takes a little while to get used to the controls and get a feel for where you should be shaking. Once you get it down though, the game controls great, as good as I could expect it to anyway, and a lot better than some other Wii games I've played with motion control.

A few songs really are just really hard. I don't blame the controls for that though, those specific songs are just difficult.

The game does control a lot better with two remotes. I started out with the nunchuk/remote, but once I tried it with two remotes I'm never going back to that again.

[Rig]

I want to see more friend codes in here! Let's compare scores, dammit!

[tsmvengy]

I don't really get the control complaints. I was willing to give reviewers a chance thinking maybe they were right and I'd realize it once I hit the harder difficulty levels, but now that I've actually made it to superhard, I have no choice but to say the reviewers that claimed the controls were broken are just wrong.

It is true that on occasion the game will fail to register one of the remotes, but this happens maybe once out of every 10 songs or so, and it's preventable if you're careful. This is a minor annoyance, but at most it will cause you to miss one shake very infrequently.

All I'm saying is, I've never played Samba before and I've only had this game a week. If the controls are broken, I shouldn't be able to 100% some songs on hard on my first try, or get A's on superhard on my first try.

I will say that there is a big learning curve because it takes a little while to get used to the controls and get a feel for where you should be shaking. Once you get it down though, the game controls great, as good as I could expect it to anyway, and a lot better than some other Wii games I've played with motion control.

A few songs really are just really hard. I don't blame the controls for that though, those specific songs are just difficult.

The game does control a lot better with two remotes. I started out with the nunchuk/remote, but once I tried it with two remotes I'm never going back to that again.

Seems to me that the people who are having the most problems are the people who played the Dreamcast game first. Maybe it's just that the controls are very different in this new version - so the rules/technique from the DC game don't apply.

[wii skiier]

Seems to me that the people who are having the most problems are the people who played the Dreamcast game first. Maybe it's just that the controls are very different in this new version - so the rules/technique from the DC game don't apply.
I think you're right. I'm still waiting on a price drop/sale on Samba, but in the meantime I've been playing my $7 clearance copy of Battle of the Bands (which has the same basic gameplay mechanic) and I have to say I've been very happy with it.

One thing I've found in BotB that may apply to Samba is that I get much better results (timing and sensitivity) if I hold the remote as low as possible on the shaft and flick rather than make a huge gesture. So that's my shaft advice if you are having sensitivity issues.

[evergoo]

Based on a few positive impressions in this thread, I'll give this game a rental.

At one time, this was a must-buy but lots of negative web reviews turned me off. Hopefully after the rental, I will be impressed.

Btw, I never played Samba before and a rhythm game based on maracas seems quite intriguing. :D

[Tsukento]

Seems to me that the people who are having the most problems are the people who played the Dreamcast game first. Maybe it's just that the controls are very different in this new version - so the rules/technique from the DC game don't apply.
That is definitely for sure. The blame most likely rests on the sensor bar and Wii remote, rather than the game itself. The controls and sensor are far from being as accurate and precise as the Dreamcast ones.

Especially considering instead of just shaking the maracas in certain spots, you have to face the remote up, down or towards the screen as well as move it in the direction you want. Sometimes, this can be a problem using the nunchuck, which is tethered to the remote, which will likely throw the sensor off and make it think you swinging in different directions.

[PuppetYuber]

I have never played DC, and the control frustrates me

it is too in-consistent. It works really well with Easy / Normal, but on Super Hard and Hard it is extremely frustrating.

The white circle is either too sensitive or too slow, and trust me, I have re-caliberate like every song and tested out the maricas / 2x wii remote / wii remote and nunchuk combo.

There are times the controls are perfect, but once I restart the Wii, the control became flawed again.

I wish Nintendo can update the firmware to improve the infra red focus point or the sensory in general, because this is such a waste of a great game.

On a side note, we never got any DLC like they promised.

[rlse9]

I've had a blast playing this game so far. The controls aren't perfect but most of the time they work well enough to not be too frustrating. I don't know many of the songs very well but they're fun to play. And Hustle mode is a blast. The songs could be a little bit longer, maybe 3 minutes instead of 2, but honestly I prefer that over the excessively long songs in guitar hero that get old half way through the song.

What's up with DLC? I don't have internet for my Wii until I go home in November but I was hoping to have songs to download by then.

[Rig]

They have one three song pack up right now. Dunno when/if they are adding more.

[CouRageouS]

I was playing this a bit yesterday. Only played a few songs since my batteries where dying and I need to get around to charging another batch. Decent no major complaints, I can agree with most points already said. Just another fun game to go with the rest of the Wii arcades hits I'll play for 30 mins every now and then.

[lilboo]

Holy shit.

So we went out and rented this tonight.

This game is so broken. This is a disgrace. How the HELL did they think this was ok?? It's amazing. It is absolutely amazing the kind of GARBAGE that gets released on the Wii.

I never played the original so I had nothing to compared it to. It's def a game with a ton of potential, but holy shit, this is crazy at how awful the controls are.. :-|

[Rig]

You sound like the magazine reviewers, Boo. :razz:

It certainly is no DC version...but I don't think the controls are horrible with a little practice. Granted, they aren't great, and I would definitely want them to be better, but I think it received too much hate.

Did you run the calibration test? That helps out quite a bit (and is definitely needed to be run with each person playing).

I had a friend that was getting 95-98% after a couple songs...and he is by far not a music genre player. I really don't think the controls take much to get down.

[Squarehard]

You sound like the magazine reviewers, Boo. :razz:

It certainly is no DC version...but I don't think the controls are horrible with a little practice. Granted, they aren't great, and I would definitely want them to be better, but I think it received too much hate.

Did you run the calibration test? That helps out quite a bit (and is definitely needed to be run with each person playing).

I had a friend that was getting 95-98% after a couple songs...and he is by far not a music genre player. I really don't think the controls take much to get down.

Well the controls seem to be okay in the lower mediocre levels of the game, but even with the calibration it is pretty much trash. the sensitivity is just terrible and on the harder levels you are constantly doing stances and the controls are very delayed to a point that the sensors cant reach to each circle fast enough after each pose. I mean its not the worst game in the world, but compared to the DC version, it is just terrible.

[lilboo]

I DID calibrate.. I just think it was more frustrating then anything. We played for about 2 hours now, giving it a good amount of time..and yeah, we do OK, but it's not really about the score...it's about going "WTF I HIT THOSE NOTES!"

I dunno. It just seems broken :o(

[Lan_Zer0]

Just tried this game out today. Usually I'm pretty good at understanding and getting the hang of Wii controls when most people don't (i.e. SSX Blur, Wii Boxing, Sonic/Monkey minigames). But hell, anything above normal is incredibly frustrating. I don't want have to preposition the wiimote before shaking, but that's how it seems to work.

I'm surprised they still pushed this game out. Even on paper, using the accelerometers to detect both position and shaking doesn't sound too easy (or possible) to implement well at all.

Love the music though.

[wii skiier]

I am still confused at the people who have trouble with the controls on this. All I can figure is that I have the same natural movements as the designers/testers or something and just lucked out. I've played almost all the songs on this and can almost always get 95% or better. I don't doubt that the controls don't work for a lot of you (I've seen the same thing happen on other games like SSX Blur), it's just strange when that kind of schism happens. I have noticed that holding the remotes as low as possible helps with the sensitivity.

I never played the DC version so I didn't have any expectations. I love the music and feel of this game. It's so gushingly cheerful.

[lilboo]

I love the music!! I want to love this game! But the controls + me are just not compatible.

This is pretty much one of the bigger problems with the Wii. Sometimes all the game needs is a solid control scheme..and that's it. This is one of those games, and IMO it fails. :wall: