View Full Version : Paypal problem - help!
rarebucky
09-24-2007, 12:00 AM
Here's the story - I won these items from this seller on ebay and she basically ripped me off. Never sent me anything. I filed a claim with Paypal and a few days before the claim was to expire and be decided in my favor she shipped me a package. Obviously it got delivered to me and she had sent with signature confirmation. Only problem is she sent me some worthless used games which I did not pay for. My question is this - since Paypal is already reviewing the case there is nothing I can say to Paypal about this, so what is the chance Paypal will decide the claim in my favor? What can I do? Surely some of you must have had this happen at some point. From Paypal's perspective it looks like the items were delivered to me but I have no way to let them know that is not the case! ARGH!!!
Pookymeister
09-24-2007, 12:07 AM
chargeback if paid with credit card with your credit card company is all i can think of
sasukekun
09-24-2007, 12:21 AM
What's the ebay seller name so we can add it to the block list
rarebucky
09-24-2007, 12:35 AM
browneyedgal68 . Had perfect feedback until a few weeks ago - obviously I'm not the only person having problems with this person. Is it possible to do a chargeback with my credit card company even after Paypal has decided in the seller's favor (assuming that does happen)?
doraemonkerpal
09-24-2007, 12:37 AM
Wow, a CAG is ripping off another CAG? That's messed up!
honkymagoo
09-24-2007, 12:41 AM
I would totally pursue it with your credit card company. How much money are we talking here? You should have some sort of protection with your card issuer/bank.
Good luck.
Pookymeister
09-24-2007, 12:52 AM
browneyedgal68 . Had perfect feedback until a few weeks ago - obviously I'm not the only person having problems with this person. Is it possible to do a chargeback with my credit card company even after Paypal has decided in the seller's favor (assuming that does happen)?
Credit card company is more inclined to side with you, i would think - you pay their bills
Vinny
09-24-2007, 01:05 AM
Credit card company is more inclined to side with you, i would think - you pay their bills
That's the thing though, if they get his money back then that's money to which they won't get to charge interest on so they would be losing money. Most credit card companies don't do anything for smaller cases these days.
But as stated before, your credit card company is probably your only bet at the moment.
Also, I noticed that she's a power seller. I don't know if this is still true but eBay (and therefore PayPal) normally sides with big sellers since eBay makes more money off of them.
mguiddy
09-24-2007, 01:33 AM
Isn't there a way to email Paypal's... conflict resolution people, or whatever they're called, to inform them of the updated situation?
Kendro
09-24-2007, 02:06 AM
Wow, a CAG is ripping off another CAG? That's messed up!
I thought the name looked familiar. Definitely a CAG.
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/member.php?u=23972
magiic
09-24-2007, 02:11 AM
Im pretty sure depending on the value of the claim your CC will likely default the claim in your favour.
refusedchaos
09-24-2007, 02:18 AM
I thought the name looked familiar. Definitely a CAG.
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/member.php?u=23972
hmm i was looking at her feedback and they all say that she was unresponive....i can vouch for that since when i first joined i was making a deal with her and it took her 3 weeks for her to make up her mind and say no:bomb: ...and she keep on changing the conditon of the games or ending up saying she wanted to keep them....this person is a waste of time
tangytangerine
09-24-2007, 07:45 AM
Isn't there a way to email Paypal's... conflict resolution people, or whatever they're called, to inform them of the updated situation?
There's a number on their website, call it and ask about it. Since it's not the items you won in the bid(would count as "not as described" if it was a claim), they should still side with you.
Here's the story - I won these items from this seller on ebay and she basically ripped me off. Never sent me anything. I filed a claim with Paypal and a few days before the claim was to expire and be decided in my favor she shipped me a package. Obviously it got delivered to me and she had sent with signature confirmation. Only problem is she sent me some worthless used games which I did not pay for. My question is this - since Paypal is already reviewing the case there is nothing I can say to Paypal about this, so what is the chance Paypal will decide the claim in my favor? What can I do? Surely some of you must have had this happen at some point. From Paypal's perspective it looks like the items were delivered to me but I have no way to let them know that is not the case! ARGH!!!
After you sent the payment did she ship the package within seven days? To be protected under PayPal's seller protection policy sellers have to ship the merchandise within seven days after after receiving payment. Is your address confirmed with PayPal?
rarebucky
09-24-2007, 08:50 AM
After you sent the payment did she ship the package within seven days? To be protected under PayPal's seller protection policy sellers have to ship the merchandise within seven days after after receiving payment. Is your address confirmed with PayPal?
No - she shipped like 3 weeks after receiving payment. My address is confirmed with Paypal, yes. I have to say, I did not realize she was a CAG. If this situation doesn't get fixed I will make sure and post her info everywhere here so that people stay away from her. She used to be reliable, obviously, but look at her recent feedback - she's a scammer now.
Brian9824
09-24-2007, 10:02 AM
The thing is paypal would require her to send them back and then automatically side with her since she has proof she sent.
Your only recourse thru paypal is to contact them and tell them she shipped you a box of garbage and NOT the items you were supposed to get. It's possible to have your dispute changed from an item not recieved to an item not as described which you can see if they will do that.
Got a link to the actual auction by any chance?
rarebucky
09-24-2007, 11:09 AM
Already contacted Paypal - they can't do anything since she provided proof of shipment and I have no way of proving she sent me a bunch of crap. I contacted my c.c. company and will dispute the charge. I spoke to the resolution department at Paypal and they will be shutting down her account because of all of the complaints. I will let everyone know about her in the feedback forum. Traders beware!
Brian9824
09-24-2007, 11:22 AM
File a BBB report on paypal too. Basically state she can't prove she DIDNT send a box of crap and they are putting all the burden of proof on you. Do you have the postage with box? It should show weight and you might be able to use that as proof.
The BBB report is a crap shot, no harm in trying and its simple to do. I've done it twice and I got a $180 refund because of it the first time for an identical situation to yours and 2nd time nothing.
schuerm26
09-24-2007, 11:31 AM
What was the stuff you won? Auction number?
If you look at the negative feedback on Sept 5th, it is a FF VII game, and it looks like it was resold to the most recent feedback on Sept. 20th.
Does the seller have your stuff back up for sale?
Also, have you contacted her to see what the problem was and are just not getting a response? Could the orders have gotten mixed up? Several of the feedbacks mention some sort of circumstance happening. Even a positive one says this. Seems odd to go from great feedback to real bad in such a hurry. 0 negs in 6 months and then all of a sudden 4 in a week.
mguiddy
09-24-2007, 11:56 AM
File a BBB report on paypal too. Basically state she can't prove she DIDNT send a box of crap and they are putting all the burden of proof on you. Do you have the postage with box? It should show weight and you might be able to use that as proof.
The BBB report is a crap shot, no harm in trying and its simple to do. I've done it twice and I got a $180 refund because of it the first time for an identical situation to yours and 2nd time nothing.
I just have to say that the burden of proof _should_ be on him. Unless you subscribe to guilty until proven innocent.
Already contacted Paypal - they can't do anything since she provided proof of shipment and I have no way of proving she sent me a bunch of crap. I contacted my c.c. company and will dispute the charge. I spoke to the resolution department at Paypal and they will be shutting down her account because of all of the complaints. I will let everyone know about her in the feedback forum. Traders beware!
Disputing with your CC is your best bet at getting your money back so good move there.
You could also file mail fraud on her if you are so inclined. I'd send her an e-mail telling her you got the wrong stuff and see what she says just in case it's an honest mistake here (which I admit seems unlikely given everything else.)
If you do get the refund from your CC be sure to send the crap back to her with delivery confirmation just so you aren't opening yourself up to a fraud charge down the line.
Brian9824
09-24-2007, 02:03 PM
I just have to say that the burden of proof _should_ be on him. Unless you subscribe to guilty until proven innocent.
Most laws are done in a way to protect the buyer, not the seller. Also like i said paypal is putting ALL the burden of proof on him. All they ask for is a signature confirmation number which can be stamped to an envelope.
This is the biggest loophole in paypal's system ever which i pointed out repeatedly on the ebay forums when i had the same issue.
Don't send item and wait for Item not Recieved Dispute
Send crap in a box with proof of mailing
Automatically win dispute and laugh and keep money
rarebucky
09-24-2007, 05:07 PM
Most laws are done in a way to protect the buyer, not the seller. Also like i said paypal is putting ALL the burden of proof on him. All they ask for is a signature confirmation number which can be stamped to an envelope.
This is the biggest loophole in paypal's system ever which i pointed out repeatedly on the ebay forums when i had the same issue.
Don't send item and wait for Item not Recieved Dispute
Send crap in a box with proof of mailing
Automatically win dispute and laugh and keep money
This is the exact problem with Paypal. People can do this all day long - the Paypal cs rep even told me this. Since someone asked, this is the auction I won (yes, it would have been a good deal):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110164870897&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=001
I bought an additional 5 sealed games from her after I won that auction outside of ebay. I didn't exactly think that was a risk - this seller had over 2000 flawless feedbacks! I know better now. But that is the problem here - Paypal has no way of tracing this to an ebay auction so they automatically closed the case. They told me "item not as described" disputes automatically get closed and awarded to the seller because they have no way to verify what I purchased. Wonderful system there. Anyway, as I mentioned before, I already called my c.c. company and disputed the charge so I should get the money back. I will make sure this beyotch doesn't do business here again on CAG though!
Vinny
09-24-2007, 10:18 PM
I bought an additional 5 sealed games from her after I won that auction outside of ebay.
And that's where you fucked yourself... hard.
I don't know if I missed that before or what you're basically screwed with anything dealt outside of eBay. That's against eBay policy and they don't cover transactions outside of eBay because if things are done that way, the eBay doesn't make money off of it. I think it's a bannable offense.
And you can't use your emails because she can just say those are fakes.
You might as well give up on PayPal and start working with your credit card company and maybe start looking into the mail fraud.
rarebucky
09-24-2007, 11:00 PM
And that's where you fucked yourself... hard.
I don't know if I missed that before or what you're basically screwed with anything dealt outside of eBay. That's against eBay policy and they don't cover transactions outside of eBay because if things are done that way, the eBay doesn't make money off of it. I think it's a bannable offense.
And you can't use your emails because she can just say those are fakes.
You might as well give up on PayPal and start working with your credit card company and maybe start looking into the mail fraud.
I mentioned before - I already disputed with my credit card company so I should be fine. Yeah, I know it wasn't the best move to do this outside of ebay, but like I said before, you have to have a certain amount of trust in a seller with 2100 flawless feedbacks or else you shouldn't be buying online at all. I'll keep everyone posted.
phear3d
09-24-2007, 11:35 PM
i traded with this person before here on cag. hmm. a few bad feedbacks already on ebay.
about that vp sealed auction.. to be honest with you, thats not a sealed game shes showing there. if its sealed youll see the hologram foil on the top right corner, its missing. it is also stated that the security strip is there, but if that foil is missing then theres no security strip.
also, if the game is sealed, you will see the plastic at the bottom. it will have some sort of reflection due to the camera's flash. heres an example:
sorry if these are hotlinked from ebay:
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa281/srbrinn1/091607%20ebay%20dc/091607%20ebay%20ps1/EbayCards072007016.jpg
see the bottom right there you can see the plastic seal ^^^^ and the top has the foil.
her auction clearly didnt have any
http://i3.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/b2/12/bded_1.JPG
if you need her address, pm me, i can try to locate it from paypal (i sent her 2 games for trade using paypal's ship now). lmk what i can do.
rarebucky
09-25-2007, 12:14 AM
You're right and I did notice that - I had actually e-mailed her about it and she said it was an old picture she used but it was indeed factory sealed with the y-fold wrap and barcode strip. What you guys are all forgetting is that this person had perfect feedback - this could have happened to any one of you and it's not as if I had reason to be suspicious. Well, good things go bad sometimes and this is one of them. I have her phone number so I will be calling her tomorrow.
rarebucky
10-10-2007, 01:07 PM
I wanted to give everyone an update on this. I was able to recover the funds from the 1 ebay item through Paypal. On the remainder, I had my c.c. company reverse the charge so for now I am good. WARNING TO EVERYONE - DO NOT DEAL WITH BROWNEYEDGAL, NOT ON CAG, NOT ON EBAY, OR ANYWHERE ELSE! She is a total scam artist and her recent feedback on ebay speaks volumes. Check it out. They will probably unregister her soon.
She posted on here five days ago. Have you contacted the mods and let them know about her situation? I wouldn't want any CAG's to deal with that stuff on here.
Glad to hear you got your money back.
rarebucky
10-10-2007, 04:04 PM
Funny how she has time to post on CAG about Transformers and Survivor but doesn't have enough time to reply to her buyers that she ripped off. Thanks for the advice Rig - I'll contact the mods shortly.
Sorry about your luck. You had no reason not to trust her so don't beat yourself up over it. Shit happens, especially on Ebay, and when you do a lot of transactions something like this will most likely happen. Part of the price we pay for collected video games.:D
rarebucky
10-10-2007, 10:09 PM
Yup, totally. I've said before in this thread that I fully trusted her based on her long and overwhelmingly positive feedback history. Sometimes good people go bad and she's bad now and I hope the mods take action :)
phear3d
10-10-2007, 10:18 PM
Yup, totally. I've said before in this thread that I fully trusted her based on her long and overwhelmingly positive feedback history. Sometimes good people go bad and she's bad now and I hope the mods take action :)
glad you got your money back. its funny how we mainly focus on physical crimes in this country. internet crime is soaring. sometimes i think ebay helps them accomplish their scams by ignoring facts. once they got their money, theres very little they could do for you.
but i guess like all criminals, its only a matter of time until someone finds you and reports you.