80gb PS3 price dropped to $499 (and 40gb announced for Nov. 2)

[ecierif]

This got announced this morning. So now the 80gb and 60gb have the same price (while the 60gb supplies last).

http://www.psu.com/40GB-PS3-confirmed-for-US-release-this-November-News--a0001565-p0.php

[munch]

The 60gb has the EE chip in it right? So what do you choose, an extra 20gb or guaranteed BC?

[CrimsonPaw]

80GB also has MotorStorm, but I'd still rather have my EE. It's good that Sony finaly realized that $500 is the top of the range that people will buy this at.

[FoxHoundADAM]

What is going to be the price of the remaining 60 GIG PS3s? Cause there are still a bunch of them here in Tulsa.

[slidecage]

For the new 40GB PS3, Sony has removed its ability to play PS2 games, which for some people was a selling point.

"We're choosing to focus on the PlayStation 2 consumer with the PlayStation 2, which remains incredibly relevant, and focus on the PlayStation 3 consumer with the new 40-gigabyte model and the great software coming out," Tretton said.

"Backward compatibility is a nice secondary consideration, but it's far from the number-one priority."

With this recent announcement we can only hope that the U.S market responds to the new SKU and price drop like the U.K., driving sales up 178%.

No word on Spiderman 3 being bundled with the 40GB PS3 or if the 40GB will be the white ceramic version seen in Japan and Korea, but stay tuned as PSU will keep you updated.

Update:

We have been notified that the 80GB price cut is effective immediately.

Additionally, according to Michael Pachter, an analyst with Wedbush Morgan Securities in Los Angeles, the 40GB PS3 will come bundled with the Spider-Man 3 Blu-ray disc as previously rumoured.



LOL driving up sales 178% more like crashing 178% in the usa

you might as well spend the extra 100 bucks and play ps2 games on the 80gb (does that one play the games)

at least now i know in these next coming weeks im going to be dumping 80% of my PS2 games (only keeping rpg games)

Next year this time Even the Rare ps2 games will be worthless to most people since who wants an older system

SO DUMP YOUR PS2 GAMES NOW

FU sony


EDIT SO THE 80 GB DOESNT PLAY PS2 Games either??

[nadsofed]

PS3 has been completly off my radar but if the 40 gb sells for 299 I will consider it. At that price point I'd rather have my ps2 for ps2 games and if it breaks I'll just get a ps2 slim.

[Tirade]

$100 price drop was effectively immediately, its already $499 on Gamestop

http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=020279

[Ogami Itto]

Next year this time Even the Rare ps2 games will be worthless to most people since who wants an older system

SO DUMP YOUR PS2 GAMES NOW

FU sony


Idiot.

[Arakias]

Idiot.

i second that motion.

[Mr. Pink]

Get a PS2 if you want to play PS2 games o.O

[decon]

Maybe now they will drop the PS2 to $99.

[BLUEMANRULE]

Please keep us updated on that pricing. I'm in OKC and would travel to Tulsa if it's more affordable up there in T-town.

[MCalvert1]

I'm sure this is old news, but Gamestop also has new 20 gig models listed at $449.99.

MjC

[anarchyburger]

they need to drop the price of the 60gb ps3 so it'll help get rid of that version :lol:

[SNKMat]

fael

[VidgamesgivemeA_D_D]

Yeah since 40 gb is $399 and 80 gb is $499 it seems logical that the 60 gb would be $449. But logic and Sony rarely go together.

[velvet396]

with so few exclusives, I still have no motivation to buy a PS3, even at a $400 price point.

[kpbboyed]

i will buy ps3 when it go down to under $300 dollars...

i currently own xbox360,wii,DSlite,PSP..all modded...

[VidgamesgivemeA_D_D]

Obviously right now there's nothing really worth buying the system for. But I always look at their future games even if they're 1-2 years away when considering buying the system.

MGS 4
God of War 3
Final Fantasy XII
Final Fantasy XII Versus
Final Fantasy VII (supposed to be the final game in the 7 series)
Unreal Tournament III (time table exclusive)
Ico or Shadow or Colossus Sequel
Gran Turismo 5 (as long as it's online)

These are all games I want a PS3 for and I wouldn't mind getting the purchase out of the way. There are of course quite a few other games that are good but aren't exclusive so I could just buy them on 360 which I already own.

[FoxHoundADAM]

Please keep us updated on that pricing. I'm in OKC and would travel to Tulsa if it's more affordable up there in T-town.Just so you know the Best buy right off 44 in Tuls had about 15 60 PS3's about a week ago.

[benjamouth]

They still have 60gb PS3's on Amazon at $499, if that price drops I might bite.

[Indiana]

So is the 40GB model now an admission from Sony that they screwed up? They have come out with so many models the average Joe must be thinking I will just wait for the $199 10GB version.

[funjoe]

I was actually going to drop by my local Sony store after work and pick up the 60G model (12 months no interest, no payments on the Sony card!), but I guess now I might as well pick up the 80G. The 80G is backward compatible, isn't it? Not that it really matters, I can always just keep my PS2 hooked up. Just curious though.

I was hoping to wait another year or so to pick up a next gen console, but GH3 and Rock Band (and their expected downloadable content) have forced my hand. I dont want to buy all the instruments for the PS2 and then have to buy them all over again in the future for the PS3.

[FoxHoundADAM]

I was actually going to drop by my local Sony store after work and pick up the 60G model (12 months no interest, no payments on the Sony card!), but I guess now I might as well pick up the 80G. The 80G is backward compatible, isn't it? Not that it really matters, I can always just keep my PS2 hooked up. Just curious though.

I was hoping to wait another year or so to pick up a next gen console, but
Yes the 80 gig is BC. The only difference is that is uses software emulation for it.

[ThatDamnDave]

Obviously right now there's nothing really worth buying the system for. But I always look at their future games even if they're 1-2 years away when considering buying the system.

MGS 4
God of War 3
Final Fantasy XII
Final Fantasy XII Versus
Final Fantasy VII (supposed to be the final game in the 7 series)
Unreal Tournament III (time table exclusive)
Ico or Shadow or Colossus Sequel
Gran Turismo 5 (as long as it's online)

These are all games I want a PS3 for and I wouldn't mind getting the purchase out of the way. There are of course quite a few other games that are good but aren't exclusive so I could just buy them on 360 which I already own.

So why not just wait until some of those games actually come out? By waiting you might even get the benefit of an additional price drop, rather than buying today on something you hope happens within a year or two.

That being said, there is 0 chance of me buying a PS3. I've simply seen no compelling reason to do so. MGS4 might be great, but one game does not a system make (at least not for me, Halo included).

[jer7583]

There's still tons of 60 gig units out there, why are they priced the same as the 80 gig with motorstorm?

Well this is good news. By the time the game I want for it comes out next year the system should be another $100 cheaper, the way things are going, since this will do little for holiday sales, in my opinion.

[funjoe]

Yes the 80 gig is BC. The only difference is that is uses software emulation for it.

Thanks.

That is pretty bizarre though. Who in their right mind would buy a 60G at this point if it's the same price, has the same features (less 20G) and doesn't come with a game? I would imagine the 60G price will drop in the very near future.

[Edge]

So is the 40GB model now an admission from Sony that they screwed up? They have come out with so many models the average Joe must be thinking I will just wait for the $199 10GB version.

The Xbox 360 isn't really doing that much better as far as models go. There's the Core, the Premium, the Elite, and now the HDMI Core and HDMI Premium. In Sony's case it isn't really a matter of screwing up, just phasing out so that they can cut costs on the system (which was probably a major reason that they phased out the old large-style PS2s for the slim models). And I don't think the "average Joe" would consider spending more than $200 on a videogame console, so until any of the current consoles get a price drop they won't see major sales like the PS2 did.

Personally, I'd be happy with a "PS3 Core" which is essentially what the 20GB model was but without the harddrive. I'd rather be able to get my own harddrive from Newegg that has the space I want than spend more initially on the console for something I might want to upgrade later on anyway.

Thanks.

That is pretty bizarre though. Who in their right mind would buy a 60G at this point if it's the same price, has the same features (less 20G) and doesn't come with a game? I would imagine the 60G price will drop in the very near future.

The 60GB (and 20GB) versions have superior backwards compatibility compared to the 80GB. Overall compatibility is higher (~95% compared to ~80%), and games have less glitches and performance issues. In fact, some games run BETTER on the 20/60 gb models than they do on the original PS2.

[007]

Yeah, that doesn't really make too much sense to keep the 60gig the same price. Unless, of course, Sony thinks there is a much smaller stock than what is currently out there. You know, like if they assumed there were so few that it wasn't worth it. Also, let's be fair here, there are a minority of people that would pick the 60 over the 80 even at the same price, just for the guaranteed backwards compatibilty.

I want to want the PS3. I do. But, as it stands, I see no compelling reason to buy one. If I'm going to spend money on a console, it'll be the 360 that I've been holding off on, now that Microsoft has made them 'unbroken'. I figure that by the time I'm ready to pick up a PS3, they'll be a glut of used ones anyway... including the guaranteed BC 60gigs.

[BULL_Ship]

Thanks.

That is pretty bizarre though. Who in their right mind would buy a 60G at this point if it's the same price, has the same features (less 20G) and doesn't come with a game? I would imagine the 60G price will drop in the very near future.
Because the software emulation is not perfect and since the 40 gig ps3 dropped it all together its not going to get any better. Its not hard to use a screwdriver and shove in a larger drive if you want.

[botticus]

If they drop the 60GB to $400, we'll talk. Maybe.

[BelieveTheHype]

i bit on the 60gb deal when there was a glitch on amazon that brought it down with the buy 2 get 1 free blu rays. in my opinion, the ps3 isn't worth it...unless you absolutely must watch blu ray movies. that's about all i use it for. i have the blockbuster monthly service to get them, but with my home theater, it's great. oh, and i like the dvd upscaler...that's something i don't think my 360 can do. but the only game i have for it is resistance and i haven't even played it yet. if i would've known they would've just kept changing prices all around, i would've waited till better games were out.

[poolshark181]

so, does this mean the xbox 360 will drop to counter this? =p

[MorPhiend]

Thanks.

That is pretty bizarre though. Who in their right mind would buy a 60G at this point if it's the same price, has the same features (less 20G) and doesn't come with a game? I would imagine the 60G price will drop in the very near future. EE>>>>>>>20GB and Motorstorm
I got the PS3 and 8 Blu-ray for $478 shipped. I never thought I would be getting a PS3 at that point and have never owned a PS or PS2. I'm completely happy with my purchase though and don't regret it at all.I knew this drop was coming, but I wanted the EE. Despite their rhetoric about the PS2 BC being unnecessary, Sony knows it's bull and they know people are willing to pay for the EE.

And I don't think the "average Joe" would consider spending more than $200 on a videogame console, so until any of the current consoles get a price drop they won't see major sales like the PS2 did.Wow. I had no idea that the PS2 had sold through more than 12.5 million units in less than 11 months from launch.

Wii is $50 less than the PS2 was at launch and has a free game. It is selling consistently at a rate more than double that of the 360 with no sign of slowing down. With SSBB delayed until March, it will be guaranteed to continue until at least then. And then Wii Fit will hit and continue the momentum. Seriously, how successful does Wii have to be for people to start considering it a success and a major player? I know people who I would have never expected to own a videogame who have hunted down Wii's. PS2 never did that. The PS2 sales rush never happened for a couple of years after it's launch. And even then, there are few people who haven't had to buy a second PS2 because their first one busted. That really needs to figure into the PS2 "success". Imagine the Wii sales if they have a similar increase of interest after two years. iPod will seem like a fad at that point.

I'm not a fanboy and you just saw that I said I own a PS3 and love it. But facts are facts. And this whole BS of dismissing the Wii really just needs to stop.

[CaseyRyback]

So is the 40GB model now an admission from Sony that they screwed up? They have come out with so many models the average Joe must be thinking I will just wait for the $199 10GB version.

Does the average joe get confused by all the 360's out there? I mean hell, MS has 4 SKU's right now, and most of them are widely available at retail locations. I don't know about you, but I know that all I have seen of the PS3 has been 60's and 80's for months. Aside from the first month or two of release, 20 gigs were hella rare. Knock Sony all you want, but to knock them for this is completely retarded. They at least know how to make a system that isn't going to break down every few months (took them 10 years to figure it out, but they did).

[CaseyRyback]

Wii is $50 less than the PS2 was at launch and has a free game. It is selling consistently at a rate more than double that of the 360 with no sign of slowing down. With SSBB delayed until March, it will be guaranteed to continue until at least then. And then Wii Fit will hit and continue the momentum. Seriously, how successful does Wii have to be for people to start considering it a success and a major player? I know people who I would have never expected to own a videogame who have hunted down Wii's. PS2 never did that. The PS2 sales rush never happened for a couple of years after it's launch. And even then, there are few people who haven't had to buy a second PS2 because their first one busted. That really needs to figure into the PS2 "success". Imagine the Wii sales if they have a similar increase of interest after two years. iPod will seem like a fad at that point.

I'm not a fanboy and you just saw that I said I own a PS3 and love it. But facts are facts. And this whole BS of dismissing the Wii really just needs to stop.

Sorry but you are wrong on that one big time. The PS2 was a hit from the start and people were tracking it down like crazy. People wanted them because it was a game system and cost a little more than most nice DVD players at the time. Plus within a year it had some of the biggest game titles to ever hit a console. GTA3, MGS2, and FFX all came out the holiday after release.

Also I guess that they decided not to include Spiderman 3 with the 40 gig, or at least I have not heard any mention of it being included. I hope it is since I have yet to see it and my friend is going to get the 40 gig.

[Indiana]

Thanks.

That is pretty bizarre though. Who in their right mind would buy a 60G at this point if it's the same price, has the same features (less 20G) and doesn't come with a game? I would imagine the 60G price will drop in the very near future.

Well the 60Gig has hardware backward compatibility. I would buy the 60G over the 80Gig.. you can always upgrade the hard drive. You will never be able to add hardware backward compatibility.

[dmaul1114]

These are all games I want a PS3 for and I wouldn't mind getting the purchase out of the way.

Wouldn't it make more sense to wait until some of those are out with the (IMO strong) chance of further price drops by then?

[magus83]

I don't get. If they were willing to do a $100 price drop on the 80g version, all they had to do was a $100 drop on the 60g ps3 and there would have been no reason at all to come out with this gimp 40g ps3.

I don't have any interest to get a ps3 due to lack of games, but what makes me worried in the future is Sony cutting features on newer ps3 models, and making backwards compatibility almost nonexistent.

[Tsukento]

Get a PS2 if you want to play PS2 games o.O
Alright sparky, let's look at it from this perspective. Say you have a PS2 and a 40GB PS3. Now let's say your PS2 eventually breaks down.

Now you're left with a busted PS2 because your PS3 can't play the PS2 games, thus forcing you to fork over $100 for a new one.

Let's say this happens even further down the line, when the PS2 is eventually discontinued and no longer sold in stores. Now you're really fucked as this makes you search around for a decent, used PS2 for who knows how much.

The fact that the 80GB can't play some and the 40GB plays none makes this TERRIBLY inconvenient and contradicts Sony's early rambling about the PS3 being fully capable of playing all of your old games on the new system, while taking pot shots at Microsoft and trying to make up false claims that Wii wasn't 100% backwards compatible with GameCube.

[Javery]

Well the 60Gig has hardware backward compatibility. I would buy the 60G over the 80Gig.. you can always upgrade the hard drive. You will never be able to add hardware backward compatibility.

This is how I feel too but I'm probably going to wait until holiday 2008 or 2009 before picking one up for hopefully $350 or less. I've got too much to play on the other systems right now and it's not going to get any better any time soon.

[fillican]

great news! My ps3 just broke!

[RedvsBlue]

great news! My ps3 just broke!

Well considering the system has been on the market less than a year it should still be under warranty, unless of course you bought it used...

[fillican]

Well considering the system has been on the market less than a year it should still be under warranty, unless of course you bought it used...

I got it as a xmas gift and have no receipt... :-(

[Tsukento]

I got it as a xmas gift and have no receipt... :-(
Since when do you need a receipt for that? As long as you've registered your console, it should be fine.

[funjoe]

Well the 60Gig has hardware backward compatibility. I would buy the 60G over the 80Gig.. you can always upgrade the hard drive. You will never be able to add hardware backward compatibility.

OK, well now I'm getting conflicted (or maybe just confused). So I can use my PS2 controllers with the PS3? Does that include the Guitar Hero controllers?

I have 6 or 7 unopened great PS2 games I still want to get to, and given time constraints it'll probably take me a year to get through them. I'd still be inclined to get the 80G at the same price and keep my PS2 hooked up.

[fillican]

Since when do you need a receipt for that? As long as you've registered your console, it should be fine.


ok where do i need to go to take care of it?

[K_G]

With this recent announcement we can only hope that the U.S market responds to the new SKU and price drop like the U.K., driving sales up 178%.



Yeah, good luck on that on Sony....what Sony left out of that statement that 90% of the units sold after introduction of the 40 GB unit were 60GB with EE chips package that included two games and second controller packed in but that only cost 50 pounds more than the 40 gig unit that had no games or second controller. Given that level of value disparity, it is surprising that Sony sold any 40 GB units at all in the UK. The message Sony should be hearing from the UK market is that put out a $400 PS3 with two games and second controller packed in, you'll get some attention in the US market.

http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/10/90-of-uk-ps3-bu.html

[Indiana]

Does the average joe get confused by all the 360's out there? I mean hell, MS has 4 SKU's right now, and most of them are widely available at retail locations. I don't know about you, but I know that all I have seen of the PS3 has been 60's and 80's for months. Aside from the first month or two of release, 20 gigs were hella rare. Knock Sony all you want, but to knock them for this is completely retarded. They at least know how to make a system that isn't going to break down every few months (took them 10 years to figure it out, but they did).

Actually I haven't seen a core or an arcade version on any shelf. The Halo version is really only aimed at hard core collectors. Unfortunately MS miscalculated and shipped way too many Halo systems I'm seeing them everywhere!

I agree MS should really only have 2 versions the arcade and the elite. (personally I think all companies should only have one version but that seems to be a thing of the past).

[K_G]

OK, well now I'm getting conflicted (or maybe just confused). So I can use my PS2 controllers with the PS3? Does that include the Guitar Hero controllers?

I have 6 or 7 unopened great PS2 games I still want to get to, and given time constraints it'll probably take me a year to get through them. I'd still be inclined to get the 80G at the same price and keep my PS2 hooked up.

No PS2 controller plugs in the PS3. GH controllers will not work on the PS3.

If you are that backed up with your games, just wait a year and the PS3 will likely be another $100 cheaper

[benjamouth]

Price of the 80gb has dropped on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/PlayStation-3-80GB-Motorstorm-Pack/dp/B000TVT8PI/ref=pd_bbs_sr_4_s9_rk/105-7824160-3819656?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&s9r=8a585b4314f36a4401151c49471306a4&itemPosition=4&qid=1192725045&sr=8-4

No drop on the 60gb though.:cry:

Also the 178% sales increase in the UK should be taken with a pinch of salt as no actual sales numbers were provided for that, so for all we know they could mean sales jumped from 1 to 178 (or whatever, maths was never my strong point).

[dmaul1114]

If you are that backed up with your games, just wait a year and the PS3 will likely be another $100 cheaper

Yep, and there will be more games worth playing out, and some current games like Resistance will be cheap by then.

No reason to buy now if you have a backlog on current systems that you think will take a year to get through.

[funjoe]

No PS2 controller plugs in the PS3. GH controllers will not work on the PS3.

If you are that backed up with your games, just wait a year and the PS3 will likely be another $100 cheaper

That was my original plan, but I want to pick up the next-gen versions of GH3 and Rock Band next month (I think it will be more cost effective than picking them up for the PS2 and ultimately having to repurchase all the instruments for the PS3 later when the inevitable sequels come out) so feel I might as well pick up the console now.

[dmaul1114]

Or just hold off on those games for now and get through your backlog.

Or say the hell with some of those games and just sell them and put it toward the PS3.

[Midnite]

Price is still $600 on SonyStyle. I still have the $100 credit to take advantage of from the promo on items $299 or higher and 12 months no interest. But with all these SKU's and price drops it might be best to wait.

[K_G]

That was my original plan, but I want to pick up the next-gen versions of GH3 and Rock Band next month (I think it will be more cost effective than picking them up for the PS2 and ultimately having to repurchase all the instruments for the PS3 later when the inevitable sequels come out) so feel I might as well pick up the console now.

If that's the case, you likely will want to pick up the 60 for full backward compatibility (motor storm isn't that good in my opinion...I rented it and played it for 30 minutes and felt that I had wasted a good 25 minutes of that time...it looks good but plays for crap)...I don't know if its been confirmed that the PS3 GH controller will work with the PS2 versions of GH1 and GH2 but I don't see why it wouldn't. If that was the case, you could make the move and just sell off the PS2 guitars you have now....but you may want to hold off until off until you get confirmation that the PS3 controller works on GH1 and GH2

[RedvsBlue]

If that's the case, you likely will want to pick up the 60 for full backward compatibility (motor storm isn't that good in my opinion...I rented it and played it for 30 minutes and felt that I had wasted a good 25 minutes of that time...it looks good but plays for crap)...I don't know if its been confirmed that the PS3 GH controller will work with the PS2 versions of GH1 and GH2 but I don't see why it wouldn't. If that was the case, you could make the move and just sell off the PS2 guitars you have now....but you may want to hold off until off until you get confirmation that the PS3 controller works on GH1 and GH2
God I hope it does. That'd really make for the ultimate Guitar Hero to purchase. Next gen, but with the ability to play past gen without having to pay over $2 per song. Now I'm kind of pumped for Guitar Hero PS3 if the controller is BC.

[dmaul1114]

The PS3 GH3 controller has "partial" compatibility with GH2 and none with GH1.

Not sure what they mean by partial, the article I read didn't elaborate.

[cargo555]

Next year this time Even the Rare ps2 games will be worthless to most people since who wants an older system

SO DUMP YOUR PS2 GAMES NOW

FU sony


EDIT SO THE 80 GB DOESNT PLAY PS2 Games either??

think of it this way....of the people complaining about the $500-600 pricetag, how many are gamers who already own a PS2?

[RedvsBlue]

The PS3 GH3 controller has "partial" compatibility with GH2 and none with GH1.

Not sure what they mean by partial, the article I read didn't elaborate.
What the hell? That doesn't even make sense. Fuckers. I want to play audioslave without having to hook up my PS2.

Ok so I did some searching and I found someone had said that GH1 is fully compatible and GH2 and GH 80s are partially compatible. Who the hell knows what's going on.

[bmarquis]

Anybody know what refurbs are going for with the price drop? I was able to score a refurb 20 gig for $370 back in July. I imagine this will knock the price down even further. I grabbed a 100gb hd off of geeks.com for $40, and have been a happy man ever since.
BTW- there's plenty to play on this system- resistance FOM, warhawk, everyday shooter and superstardust are all excellent games. With Ratchet coming out followed by Uncharted and Orange Box- I'll have plenty to keep me busy until the heavy hitters come out next year.

[dahermitt]

Can someone list each model (20gb, 40gb, 60gb, 80gb), their price, and list what type of BC each one has. I'm a little confused by these models.

[dmaul1114]

What the hell? That doesn't even make sense. Fuckers. I want to play audioslave without having to hook up my PS2.

Ok so I did some searching and I found someone had said that GH1 is fully compatible and GH2 and GH 80s are partially compatible. Who the hell knows what's going on.


Here, this was posted on the official Guitar Hero forums (the developers site) by the admins:

http://forum.guitarherogame.com/Default.aspx?g=posts&t=28298


Many on the forum have had questions regarding the new Les Paul controllers and older Guitar Hero titles. Below are some answers.

1. Will the PS3 Les Paul controller work for the older Guitar Hero games (released on PS2)?

We suggest that you keep your PS2 console around as the new Les Paul controller will not have 100% functionality with older GH titles. (ie. star power and hammer on won't work properly). Below is the breakdown for the PS3 Les Paul tested with older PS2 GH titles. Note that the PS3 Les Paul wireless controller will only work on the PS3. The PS2 Kramer Striker wireless guitar will only work on the PS2.

GH1 (PS2) - 100% functionality
GH2 (PS2) - partial functionality
GH Encore (PS2) - partial functionality

2. For Xbox 360, will the X-plorer wired controller work on GH3 and will the Les Paul wireless work on GH2?

The X-plorer will work perfectly fine w/GH3 on Xbox 360. The Les Paul wireless will have 100% compatibility with GH2.

[dmaul1114]

Can someone list each model (20gb, 40gb, 60gb, 80gb), their price, and list what type of BC each one has. I'm a little confused by these models.

20GB- full BC, but not available new anymore.
40GB- 399.99 no BC at all
60GB- 499.99 full BC as it has has the PS2 chips inside, not being made anymore, but still available in stores for the time being
80GB-499.99, partial BC as it's software emulation (like the 360). You can search games and see if they are compatible here (there's probably a list out there somewhere as well).

http://www.us.playstation.com/Support/CompatibleStatus

[opportunity777]

If the 60 GB drops to $400, then I'll pick that up and give away my 20 GB PS3 to a family member or post it as a prize on the CAG forums if one of my nephews doesn't claim it.

As it stands, I would definitely buy the 60 GB over the 80 GB because the 80 GB is an inferior product.

The ball is in MS court now. They need to drop the core SKU (or make it $239.99), lower the price of the Premium to $299.99 and push the Elite down to about $369.99 or lower.

[dmaul1114]

The ball is in MS court now. They need to drop the core SKU (or make it $239.99), lower the price of the Premium to $299.99 and push the Elite down to about $369.99 or lower.

I'm guessing that packing in Forza 2 and Marvel: Ultimate Alliance was designed to counter a Sony price drop everyone new was coming this fall.

But they would be smart to also cut prices to the levels you suggest to really deflate the Sony drop. I mean $349 for a Premium with 2 games does look better (to me anyway) than a PS3 with a BR movie for $399, but it would look even better at $299 vs 399.

[slidecage]

Idiot.

whatever. go on and save your ps2 games. Good luck dumping them in 2 years or even next year. Look at ps1 games. then again you cant really take the PS2 to PS1 idea since then People could still play ps1 games on their ps2


Most people dont have room for 2 systems and dont even want 2 systems clogging up their space.


TELL THE TRUTH NOW.

When was the last time you broke out your PS1 system or even own a ps1 system anymore....... What was it years ago ?? would you paid 40 bucks for a ps1 game that was worth 40 bucks 8 years ago and the answer to that is 99% is NO

This wont change most peoples minds anyways cause the first questions parents will ask

WILL THIS PLAY MY SONS PS2 games

no then forget it cause there is no way in hell im going to buy my son a system that i need to run out and buy all new games for .

nice try sony but no dice

[ddp72984]

is the USA one gonna be white?

[SuperFox]

I'm torn on what to do. Having a PS3 with BC would be great, since I have yet to play the Jak series, Rachet series, or God of War I/II (not to mention I want to play ESPN NFL 2K5 again.) However, getting the lowest priced PS3 possible would be nice as well, since the HD is upgradeable (in the rare event I even ran out of room) since I would be using it for PS3 games and Blu-ray...I might as well just wait, since I've got my Xbox 360 and Wii to hold me down, until the PS2 is $99 new (or even less on eBay with people buying a 40 GB PS3!)

[opportunity777]

I'm torn on what to do. Having a PS3 with BC would be great, since I have yet to play the Jak series, Rachet series, or God of War I/II (not to mention I want to play ESPN NFL 2K5 again.) However, getting the lowest priced PS3 possible would be nice as well, since the HD is upgradeable (in the rare event I even ran out of room) since I would be using it for PS3 games and Blu-ray...I might as well just wait, since I've got my Xbox 360 and Wii to hold me down, until the PS2 is $99 new (or even less on eBay with people buying a 40 GB PS3!)

If you only want to play PS2 games and can hold off on Bluray (BR movies are still overpriced), then I would recommend passing on the PS3 until next year. It will be even cheaper. There will be more games available, and Bluray movies will be less expensive. Also, HDDs will be cheaper. You could buy a PS2 to tide you over.

Otherwise, you should just put the money you would spend on a PS2 on top of the $400 for the 40 GB PS3 version and pick up one of the superior models. I would wait and see if the 60 GB falls in price (since the 80 GB is now $500, it's inevitable some retailer will drop the 60 GB price) before spending your hard-earned greenbacks because the 60 GB is the one you should aim to get.

[msdmoney]

I'm hoping some stores have some good game bundles for the holiday on top of the Sony drop, like Fry's recently had for the 360. The Blu-Ray deals recently were good, but I would rather get a few games with the system than movies.

Hopefully we'll see some good deals for the 60gb model as stores clear them out.

[v1et r1ce]

This wont change most peoples minds anyways cause the first questions parents will ask

WILL THIS PLAY MY SONS PS2 games

Yes cause all parents know everything about BC and will never buy a system for their kids without it. :roll:

[Foo228]

I'm surprised about the 80GB drop but I guess it all makes sense..

They'll just release another PS3 with more space of course, for the premium price of $600 yet again

[NolbertoS]

I'm guessing that Sony is hinting that the 60GB is not going down in price, cuz there low in stock, and probably by having the EE chip, still not worth slashing the price as they are trying to recoup their losses. But for me, I'd go for the 60GB over any other PS3 SKU. I'd rather have full 100% BC than 90ish % BC from the other models. And to quote another poster. I still do play some PS1 games from time to time, like the Final Fantasy's, Dragon Warrior's, Breath of Fire's, etc, so 100% BC for me is a must

[rscaramelo]

Bit the bullet and grabbed a 60gb ($499) at Target today with the 3 year service plan ($30). I've been watching ebay like a hawk for a week and they're going for a minimum of $450 shipped and used to boot! This is a stupid amount of money to spend but I wanted to make sure I had a BC chip.

RC

[MorPhiend]

Sorry but you are wrong on that one big time. The PS2 was a hit from the start and people were tracking it down like crazy. People wanted them because it was a game system and cost a little more than most nice DVD players at the time. Plus within a year it had some of the biggest game titles to ever hit a console. GTA3, MGS2, and FFX all came out the holiday after release.

Also I guess that they decided not to include Spiderman 3 with the 40 gig, or at least I have not heard any mention of it being included. I hope it is since I have yet to see it and my friend is going to get the 40 gig.Hey, thanks for repeating exactly what I already said.

I never said that it wasn't a hit out of the gate. I was talking pure numbers. And I did say that the sheer volume of sales picked up after a year or two. But those numbers were not there out of the gate, even though the console was hard to find. It was hard to find because they didn't launch with many units.

If you attempt to say that PS2 had 12.5 million sales after less than 11 months and was still dang hard to find, you are just plain full of "you know what". I know initial demand was high for PS2, but it tapered off quickly. Eventually units were more than plentiful and the boom of sales happened after a couple of years with better software and cheaper hardware.

[getmeoutofjoliet]

So the 60gb is BC with PSX games?

And the 80gb isn't?

[Ivanhoe]

So the 60gb is BC with PSX games?

And the 80gb isn't?

only the 40gig doesnt play ps2 games.
everything else does.

[anotherpoorgamer]

Still no pricedrop on the PS2 yet? :(

Anyone find it a little odd seeing that the 60GB version hasn't dropped yet either? A $50 pricedrop would be decent.

[Ryukahn]

So the 60gb is BC with PSX games?

And the 80gb isn't?

60 GB = Fully BC
80 GB = BC similar to 360, so not all games work

[jkam]

I think my one big question for the PS3 at this point is down the line...say in 2-3 years will there be an option for BC? Signs point to no but I would hate to shell out $500 out of fear that I can't get one with BC ...then have one in 2-3 years at a cheaper price with all software emulation. I also already have a 360, a PS2, and a Wii...so I'm not exactly in a rush to get a PS3.

Also... supposedly the gimped PS3 can do PS1 stuff since its all software emulation already so I don't see why they couldn't eventually do that on the PS2 stuff. I think Cheapy put it best when he said with the system being that powerful shouldn't it be able to run 60 PS2's in cascading windows?

The 360 obviously isn't the best on BC but at least they made the effort and it pushed me into grabbing one to play some of the old XBOX stuff as well as the 360 stuff. Sony just seems to be pushing it aside at this point. Ugh.

[MorPhiend]

60 GB = Fully BC
80 GB = BC similar to 360, so not all games workIn other words, if you want your old games to work, either keep your PS2 or pick up the 60GB before they are gone.

[cargo555]

whatever. go on and save your ps2 games. Good luck dumping them in 2 years or even next year. Look at ps1 games. then again you cant really take the PS2 to PS1 idea since then People could still play ps1 games on their ps2


Most people dont have room for 2 systems and dont even want 2 systems clogging up their space.


TELL THE TRUTH NOW.

When was the last time you broke out your PS1 system or even own a ps1 system anymore....... What was it years ago ?? would you paid 40 bucks for a ps1 game that was worth 40 bucks 8 years ago and the answer to that is 99% is NO

This wont change most peoples minds anyways cause the first questions parents will ask

WILL THIS PLAY MY SONS PS2 games

no then forget it cause there is no way in hell im going to buy my son a system that i need to run out and buy all new games for .

nice try sony but no dice

want bc? either buy the $500 80gb/60gb....or buy a PS2

any selling PS2 games? whats so hard about selling PS2 games to a userbase of 100+million?

and again, most likely the whiners who complain about the high price last year are casuals who still own PS2s, so i fail to see how John Q would refuse to buy a new console without intention of buying new games to play it on. they cant be THAT dumb/misinformed (i know americans are pretty thick, but still)

[cargo555]

The 360 obviously isn't the best on BC but at least they made the effort and it pushed me into grabbing one to play some of the old XBOX stuff as well as the 360 stuff. Sony just seems to be pushing it aside at this point. Ugh.

sony's reasoning might be that ps2 already has 100million userbase and is still selling, so might as well just let the PS2 keep selling, while let the PS3 create its own separate userbase.

[manthing]

So.....

What happens if I buy a 60GB EE equipped PS3 before they dissapear, and in a few years it needs to be sent in for service?

Will Sony...

a. Keep a stock of EE PS3 components for repairs through the next 9 years of its lifecycle, insuring I get a EE PS3 back from the repair?

b. Ship me a 40 GB non-EE as a replacement?

If Sony doesn't do something about the lack of PS2 compatibility, I'd expect a class-action suit from EE PS3 owners

[shrike4242]

So.....

What happens if I buy a 60GB EE equipped PS3 before they dissapear, and in a few years it needs to be sent in for service?

Will Sony...

a. Keep a stock of EE PS3 components for repairs through the next 9 years of its lifecycle, insuring I get a EE PS3 back from the repair?

b. Ship me a 40 GB non-EE as a replacement?

If Sony doesn't do something about the lack of PS2 compatibility, I'd expect a class-action suit from EE PS3 ownersI proposed the same question in the PS3 forum's thread.

If they shipped out a 80GB MLB in your PS3, then they might be able to get away with it. 40GB MLB, nope. I'm sure Sony will have to get in the habit of shipping Slim PSTwo's with any 20GB/60GB PS3 that doesn't come back with full BC onboard.

[screwkick]

There's nothing that can be played on the PS3 that can't be played on an XBOX 360 for a lower console price and at a better frame rate.

[SuperFox]

There's nothing that can be played on the PS3 that can't be played on an XBOX 360 for a lower console price and at a better frame rate.

Please refrain from blatant fanboyism...and always include "you can get Achievement Points" as one of your reasons should you still choose to post it.

[manthing]

I proposed the same question in the PS3 forum's thread.

If they shipped out a 80GB MLB in your PS3, then they might be able to get away with it. 40GB MLB, nope. I'm sure Sony will have to get in the habit of shipping Slim PSTwo's with any 20GB/60GB PS3 that doesn't come back with full BC onboard.

Still probably not a good enough "CYA" move for Sony though. Yes a Slim will give full BC, but it *STILL* won't replace the full functionality of the PS3. The upscaling of PS1/2 games would still be missing.

Unless Sony plans on releasing a PS2 HD and putting that in the box with the gimp PS3....:-k

[nefaquotek]

There's nothing that can be played on the PS3 that can't be played on an XBOX 360 for a lower console price and at a better frame rate.

Do you really want me start listing games? OKAY I GUESS I'll play SOny fanboy for a moment (since I'm a Nintendo fanboy)

Little Big Planet
Metal Gear Solid 4
Final Fantasy XIII
Final Fantasy XIII Versus
Team Ico Project

There, each console has plenty of games to play depending on your tastes.

by the way OKAMI ON THE WII!!!!!!!!!

[Mr. Pink]

Sellers on Ebay already started rising prices for 60GB PS3 versions, so anybody who still didn't make up their mind better hurry. Sooner or later retail stores are going to be out of them considering that 40GB version is coming.

[Mr. Pink]

Who? Where?

Made a typo, sorry.

[shrike4242]

Still probably not a good enough "CYA" move for Sony though. Yes a Slim will give full BC, but it *STILL* won't replace the full functionality of the PS3. The upscaling of PS1/2 games would still be missing.

Unless Sony plans on releasing a PS2 HD and putting that in the box with the gimp PS3....:-kIt's not a good CYA move, though something I'd been thinking of once the 80GB was released, and brought to the forefront by the abomination of the 40GB.

If you bought a retail warranty, like from Target or BB, you're pretty much screwed if it breaks. For EB/GS, you might end up with a used 60GB in place of a new 80GB/40GB.

[manthing]

It's not a good CYA move, though something I'd been thinking of once the 80GB was released, and brought to the forefront by the abomination of the 40GB.
Nope, but the sad truth is that we've probably shown more foresight in 20 minutes than Sony has, and it will probably come back to bite them in the :booty:



If you bought a retail warranty, like from Target or BB, you're pretty much screwed if it breaks. For EB/GS, you might end up with a used 60GB in place of a new 80GB/40GB.
I haven't bought one, but this question does bother me. Maybe Sony will devise a software solution before it's ever a 'problem'?

I'm thinking about getting that Triple now, even though I *just* bought a 360 Holiday Pro Bundle...


:wall::-$:oops::headache:

[hostyl1]

TELL THE TRUTH NOW.

When was the last time you broke out your PS1 system or even own a ps1 system anymore....... What was it years ago ?? would you paid 40 bucks for a ps1 game that was worth 40 bucks 8 years ago and the answer to that is 99% is NO

This wont change most peoples minds anyways cause the first questions parents will ask

WILL THIS PLAY MY SONS PS2 games

no then forget it cause there is no way in hell im going to buy my son a system that i need to run out and buy all new games for .

nice try sony but no dice

Here's the thing about all of this though, if the PS3 doesnt do BC then it doesnt matter to the PS2 owner whether they get a PS3 or 360 as either will require an investment in all new software. I think Sony is hurting themselves by eliminating BC because the PS2 owner will lose at least one reason to get a PS3 over a 360. (of course there is always the more expensive 'fully functioning' model)

That being said, I really think Microsoft was on to something a few years ago when they essentially said 'backwards compatibility is no big thing' or that 'people dont buy new systems to play old games'. I have to look at myself as an example. I owned a PS1 and a PS2 (actually still have both). But from the time I hooked up my PS2 in 2002, I have played exactly *ONE* PS1 game (Crash Bash) and then that was only when I had younger friends around. Similarly, I did *not* own an Xbox1 but have bought a 360. I have actually *purchased* (used) Xbox1 games...but have not played any of them because I am so much enjoying the new-gen games.

I realize that the average 'internet gamer' sees great value in being able to play older games, but realistically, these are the same people who already own PS2. Sure, having BC keeps your living room less cluttered and perhaps you can recoup a few $$ by reselling the older system, but if you *really* want to play your older games, you *would* keep the older system. I bet if you took a poll here, you'd see plenty of ppl who still own a Dreamcast, N64, Genesis, etc., because they still enjoy playing some of those games.

I *personally* dont care much for this move as I *did* want a cheaper way to play upscaled PS2 games, however, it's really not the end of the world. If I want to play my PS2 games, I just use my PS2. At the end of the day, what is going to make me buy a PS3 is indeed *PS3* software. I think most non-hardcore gamers would think similarly.

[keithp]

I think most non-hardcore gamers would think similarly.

Not this one. Lack of BC is making me look to the 360, at least until more must-have PS3 games come out.

[xcoax]

didn't see this coming... kind of a slap to the face of people who just got a 60GB one. between the better five free movies offer they've got now and the $100 off the 80GB model, I'm starting to feel cheated.

Goes to show maybe if you're on the fence about buying one you should just wait it out until they drop it another $100 a month or two down the line.

[Justin42]

Here, this was posted on the official Guitar Hero forums (the developers site) by the admins:

http://forum.guitarherogame.com/Default.aspx?g=posts&t=28298

This is outdated-- the PS3 guitars WILL NOT WORK with ANY PS2 Guitar Hero games:

http://forum.guitarherogame.com/Default.aspx?g=posts&t=29097
3. How is the functionality of the PS3 Les Paul wireless for the older Guitar Hero games (released on PS2)?

Correction: The new PS3 Les Paul wireless controller will NOT work at all with any of the Playstation2 Guitar Hero titles when played on the PS3. We suggest that you keep your PS2 console around to play the older PS2 Guitar Hero games. Using a PS2-to-PS3 USB adapter, GH1 will work on the PS3 using either the SG or the original PS2 wireless guita

[MorPhiend]

Not this one. Lack of BC is making me look to the 360, at least until more must-have PS3 games come out.I think you're looking for an excuse. There are still fully BC PS3s out there on shelves. My TRU, for example, has 3 or 4 in front and they said they had some in the back. You justdon't want to like the PS3... Which is fine, just don't give a bull reason. 360 has a hack job of BC. PS3 60GB has the full thing and 80GB has the same thing as 360.

didn't see this coming... kind of a slap to the face of people who just got a 60GB one. between the better five free movies offer they've got now and the $100 off the 80GB model, I'm starting to feel cheated.

Goes to show maybe if you're on the fence about buying one you should just wait it out until they drop it another $100 a month or two down the line.If you really don't care about the EE, you're the only one to blame. The 80 GB has been out for awhile now. And it was known about for at least a few weeks or even a month or two before it showed up. While it's exitstence was still a rumor, it was also rumored they were phasing out the 60 and would then drop the price of the 80 by Christmas. Sorry, I don't feel bad for you.

[thurston]

see this is where the consumer gets confused...

80gb w/game with no BC or 60gb with BC...

honestlyi dont care about the Motorstorm..although its nice becuz it seems free...and the HDD can be replaced just as easily..

so naturally... 60gb w/ BC + HDD(if wanted) - 600. give or take..

or 80gb w/game no BC - 500(without tax i know)
..
its a tough decision..so i wont make any until i hear something of BC...

[tayaf69]

I own a PS3 so I don't need to join the discussion, but if I DIDN'T own one, BC would be key in buying a system. I have played FFX and FF12 on my PS3 so far and have tons of other PS2 games that I will play as well. Since there aren't any PS3 games out, this seems important to me.

[Aleryn]

Good for them lowering the price by $100.

I say damn good of them for chancing the 40gb version, lacking backwards compatibility for $399. At this rate, I applaud them for taking chances. They're in a dire situation, and who knows... the average consumer might bite on the cheaper one.

And that means a better chance of the PS3 becoming highly successful. Which would lead my beloved 360 getting more competition, which it really needs.

[keithp]

I think you're looking for an excuse. There are still fully BC PS3s out there on shelves. My TRU, for example, has 3 or 4 in front and they said they had some in the back. You justdon't want to like the PS3... Which is fine, just don't give a bull reason. 360 has a hack job of BC. PS3 60GB has the full thing and 80GB has the same thing as 360.

If you really don't care about the EE, you're the only one to blame. The 80 GB has been out for awhile now. And it was known about for at least a few weeks or even a month or two before it showed up. While it's exitstence was still a rumor, it was also rumored they were phasing out the 60 and would then drop the price of the 80 by Christmas. Sorry, I don't feel bad for you.

No, Sony Fanboy, you're wrong. I'm not looking for an excuse, what I'm really looking for is a cheaper price, which is why I haven't plunked down any of my cashola for either one at this point. That said, if I was to buy one I would definitely lean towards the 360, since Sony taking away BC is just another strike against it for me, and there are far more games I'm interested in for it rather than the PS3.

Oh, and I HAVE played lots of PS1 games on my PS2.

[Doomed]

i bit on the 60gb deal when there was a glitch on amazon that brought it down with the buy 2 get 1 free blu rays.
Damn. When was that?

[funjoe]

I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the 80G. Most of the games I have yet to play for the PS2 supposedly work fine (according to Sony's site) on the PS3 80G, and I'll leave my PS2 hooked up as well. $540 total, got Motorstorm, plus I think the 5 free Blu-Ray deal is still in effect. Not bad (plus 12 months no interest, no payments).

Funny thing was, the manager at the SonyStyle store didn't even know the price had dropped. He didn't believe me, had to look it up on his computer, then he made an announcement in the store once he confirmed it. And as he was ringing me up, he made the same comment I did - why would anyone buy a 60G if the 80G was the same price + Motorstorm. I proceeded to explain to him what some of the prior posters explained to me, and he then decided he was going to buy one of the 60G units (they just got 4 in today, he said). Anyway, my point is I love CAG and the people who post here. Thanks to everyone who took the time to explain the facts of PS3 to me earlier this AM.

Another amusing side note - one of the clerks apparently just bought an 80G 4 weeks ago and was pissed when he found out the price dropped. I expect one of the registers at that SonyStyle will come up $100 short in the near future.

[magus83]

I think I'll just wait until decent rpg's start hitting the system(already have a 360 and a Wii), hopefully by then the ps3 will be even cheaper and a new model will come out with a rumble controller.

Or maybe there will be a kick ass black Friday deal on one of the of the older ps3 models.

[Mr. Pink]

IGN had an interview with Sony's vice president about the new 40GB PS3.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/828/828443p1.html

[MorPhiend]

No, Sony Fanboy, you're wrong. I'm not looking for an excuse, what I'm really looking for is a cheaper price, which is why I haven't plunked down any of my cashola for either one at this point. That said, if I was to buy one I would definitely lean towards the 360, since Sony taking away BC is just another strike against it for me, and there are far more games I'm interested in for it rather than the PS3.

Oh, and I HAVE played lots of PS1 games on my PS2.Let's look at your post again:
Not this one. Lack of BC is making me look to the 360, at least until more must-have PS3 games come out.
Again, PS3 does not lack BC. 60GB has full BC and 80 GB has the same that 360 offers. Stop lying. If you think it's too expensive, fine. But don't make stupid claims and then lie about what you said.

And Sony fanboy? LoL. Anyone who has known me for a few years on here can probably tell you that I have always been known as a Sony flamer. Just look at the picture in my sig. The PS3 is the first Sony hardware I have ever owned and I only got it a few weeks ago. Up until that impulse buy I swore I would never buy a PS3. I have a Wii and last gen I had a GCN and and Xbox (and still have them). I have GHII and two guitars for 360 as well as an HD-DVD drive that I use on my roommate's 360. You have no idea who I am, so don't claim that you do, you ignorant fool.

[Tsukento]

IGN had an interview with Sony's vice president about the new 40GB PS3.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/828/828443p1.html

Peter: So, again, the ability to get them a PS3 at $399 became more important than maintaining that. We're the only company that's been able to tackle backwards compatibility at all. No other platform from our competitors has been able to do it.

LMAO

Looks like Sony's still trying to convince themselves that the Xbox 360 and Wii don't have backwards compatibility and never touched on it.

[RedvsBlue]

Here, this was posted on the official Guitar Hero forums (the developers site) by the admins:

http://forum.guitarherogame.com/Default.aspx?g=posts&t=28298

Thanks for the info. That's semi-great news and since I only have GH1 and don't have GH2 anyway, I'll probably get the PS3 version of GH3 so I can play my old GH1 songs.

[Justin42]

Thanks for the info. That's semi-great news and since I only have GH1 and don't have GH2 anyway, I'll probably get the PS3 version of GH3 so I can play my old GH1 songs.

In case you missed the bad news...

http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3477427&postcount=98

[y2kenjination]

Why can't they just drop the 60GB to $400 already? >_< If it drops to $400, then I'd totally bite. I wanna play me some Heavenly Sword and Folklore!

[RedvsBlue]

In case you missed the bad news...

http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3477427&postcount=98

Fucking lame.

I think I'm back to just skipping out on GH3 for now.

[zerolens]

40GB is backwards compatible with PS1 games so it's not completely useless. And unless they are keeping the graphic synthesizer versions (80GB in NA, 60GB in Europe) around for a long time then it seems suspicious that they would put so much effort into using software to emulate the Emotion Engine for only a span of 6 months to a year and then drop it.

Despite what sony says they know BC can be used as a selling tool. To make all software emulation for PS2 games can let them cut costs by not using hardware/chips for it and they can carry this over to PS4, PS5, etc.

Even what Kaz said at TGS a few weeks back, he would have you believe there was no price cut planned for the holidays. They said they couldn't put rumble and motion sensor in the same controller a long time back and downplayed rumble. Sony will say what suits them at the time. They want to sell 60GB and 80GB versions today.

This is no guarantee but take what sony says with a grain of salt. If they are planning it, it's still in their interest to hide it to get rid of 60GB and 80GB versions through the holidays. They don't want retail stores stuck with old stock they can't sell.

And if the 60GB really is out of production and all are sold to retail stores then Sony may have no control over a price drop. It's not their call, they sold them all and it's the retail store's decision on whether or not they want to clearance it or not.

[hostyl1]

Not this one. Lack of BC is making me look to the 360, at least until more must-have PS3 games come out.

I think you totally missed my point. 1) Since you post on this site aand own both a Wii and a PS2, I doubt that you qualify as a NON-hardcore gamer. 2) And more importantly, I said that PS3 software will be the determining factor in a PS3 purchase and you seem to be saying that if "more must-have PS3 games come out" that would determine if you buy a PS3 or not.....which is exactly my point.

Sure, BC is a nice *addition*, but if there isnt compelling ps-THREE software, there is no reason to buy a PS3 at all. You can just play your PS2. But since you (like me) already *have* a PS2, you really dont *need* BC for your gaming pleasure. I think, while on the surface it seems asinine, Sony has a good point...the same on Microsoft had about 3 years ago.."Nobody *buys* a new-gen system to play last-gen games". It's really all up to the new-gen games to sell the new gen systems.

And to thurston the 80GB version *does* have backwards compatibility. Yes there are *limited* issues, but remember, the PS2 was not 100% BC with the PS1 either. I cannot imagine that there are that significant number of games that you want to play on BC that have issues to make it a deal-breaker.
lata, hostyl1

[dmaul1114]

Again, PS3 does not lack BC. 60GB has full BC and 80 GB has the same that 360 offers. Stop lying. If you think it's too expensive, fine. But don't make stupid claims and then lie about what you said.
.

Someone piss in your cornflakes? It was pretty clear he was talking about lack of BC in the $400 console. i.e. the only one he thinks is remotely reasonably priced.

[crewj]

i've had my 60 GB ps3 for a few months and i've been enjoying it since day one. i upgraded the interal HDD to 160 GB so HDD size wouldn't be an issue. as for BC, i did try playing ps1 games on it and to me it just wasn't worth it. some of the graphics on a HDTV just look horrible (r-type delta). ps2 games were fine, but it just wasn't as nice a picture as a 1080p ps3 game (of course).

i've got a huge stash of ps1 games but i don't have a ps1 anymore. with that, i say take out ps1 BC and leave in ps2 BC and we have a winner! :D

just my 2 cents

[Tsukento]

And to thurston the 80GB version *does* have backwards compatibility. Yes there are *limited* issues, but remember, the PS2 was not 100% BC with the PS1 either. I cannot imagine that there are that significant number of games that you want to play on BC that have issues to make it a deal-breaker.
lata, hostyl1
The PS2's BC issue was faaaar smaller to that of the PS3. Not only that, but most were pretty much fixed when the slimline came around.

[Wolfpup]

Alright sparky, let's look at it from this perspective. Say you have a PS2 and a 40GB PS3. Now let's say your PS2 eventually breaks down.

Now you're left with a busted PS2 because your PS3 can't play the PS2 games, thus forcing you to fork over $100 for a new one.

Let's say this happens even further down the line, when the PS2 is eventually discontinued and no longer sold in stores. Now you're really fucked as this makes you search around for a decent, used PS2 for who knows how much.

The fact that the 80GB can't play some and the 40GB plays none makes this TERRIBLY inconvenient and contradicts Sony's early rambling about the PS3 being fully capable of playing all of your old games on the new system, while taking pot shots at Microsoft and trying to make up false claims that Wii wasn't 100% backwards compatible with GameCube.

I agree 130% with this.

The lack of backwards compatibility in this industry also hurts it's credibility as art IMO. Not to mention the practical side that the PS1 was viable for years after the PS2 came out because of BC, and the PS2 would have gone even longer...although at this point it wouldn't shock me horribly if the PS2 outlived the PS3, since they're now distinct platforms.

Frankly I think I'm done with the Playstation 3. The main thing that really kept me interested (despite I think a vastly inferior lineup going forward than the 360) was it's backwards compatibility, which I assumed would stretch indefinetly into the future on the PS4, PS5.... That's what I loved about the PS2 also. If they drop that, I have no reason to bother with a PS3. I'll probably pick up another PS2 when the price drops, to maintain access to my PS1 and PS2 libraries.

And no, buying a 60GB PS3 now isn't a solution, because it's the same situation as with my PS2-if it ever dies, I can't replace it once the PS2 is out of production.

The pathetic thing is Microsoft is now BEATING Sony at backwards compatibility. And at least they have a real excuse. They don't own the X-Box's hardware. They couldn't fold it into an "X-Box on a chip" like Sony could for the PS1 and PS2. In Sony's case, they should have done the exact same thing they did for the PS2. They should have used the PS2 on a chip as an IO controller, or whatever. The cost starts out pretty negligible compared to the cost of the system, and within a few years it wouldn't cost anything, as they'd be able to fold the PS2 on a chip into the PS3 hardware, just as they have with the PS1 on a chip.

[Tsukento]

I think the problem is, like others have pointed out, is that Sony's REFUSING to take some hits and just deal with whatever losses come their way. The PS3 was going to lose money for each one made when it first came out, no matter what. So why not actually risk it? Sony has the money to back themselves up. They're still thinking they're the high and mighty of video games. So why the hell not take some losses for the benefits of the fans?

[zerolens]

I think the problem is, like others have pointed out, is that Sony's REFUSING to take some hits and just deal with whatever losses come their way. The PS3 was going to lose money for each one made when it first came out, no matter what. So why not actually risk it? Sony has the money to back themselves up. They're still thinking they're the high and mighty of video games. So why the hell not take some losses for the benefits of the fans?

Do you expect them to have the EE and/or graphics synthesizer inside a PS4 or PS5 10-20 years from now? The same people would complain if the PS4 pulled it out. They're eventually going to be pulled out one way or another.

Has the NA 80GB even officially been annnounced as going to be cancelled? When it is cancelled and disappears from shelves and there's no sign of software BC on the 40GB then people can complain. As of now you have both 60GB and 80GB as options. 40GB is BC with PS1.

Sony risked sales with saying no rumble and denied it for awhile and now look what happened. Their position can change tomorrow. Until then you have options. For those looking at the long term then simply wait it out, stop jumping to conclusions that everything sony says is set in stone. Making software emulation for PS2 games can carry over to PS4, etc.

Not to mention this helps make selling PS2 as downloadable games an option in the future. BC is also a selling tool to moving consoles. There are demos now that are over 1GB, there is a market for selling PS2 games in the future.

[Justin42]

It isn't going to help if retailers don't get their stories straight-- Best Buy just put up a listing for the 40GB PS3 pre-order and it includes the "Plays your old PlayStation 2 and PlayStation games, DVDs and CDs, so you can merge all of your entertainment into one machine" bullet point.

Oops.

[Caliburn]

I'm still not sold on the PS3 yet. I'll remain happy with my fat and slim PS2s until the PS3 drops to an affordable price...

[dmaul1114]

I think the problem is, like others have pointed out, is that Sony's REFUSING to take some hits and just deal with whatever losses come their way.

Exactly. And that's what they SHOULD do to try to get back in the race, as the dug their own grave by launching with a $500-600 console soley because they wanted to force Blu Ray on people.

That killed most of the PS2 base, as HDTV adoption is low still, and many people just don't give a shit about HD disc formats right now regardless. Much less willing to pay a premium to early adopt a machine and pay a premium on HD movie discs.

I loved the PS1 and PS2, but a PS3 will never be in my home. Wii and 360 have me covered this gen. PS4 I'll consider if Sony pulls their head out of their ass and launches a reasonably priced machine next gen, gets back some exclusives I give a shit about, and drops their nonsense arrogance.

[MorPhiend]

Someone piss in your cornflakes? It was pretty clear he was talking about lack of BC in the $400 console. i.e. the only one he thinks is remotely reasonably priced.Like I said, if it's too expensive for him, fine. But his original claim was that PS3 lacked BC. Period. That's a lie. In fact, it does BC better than 360. There is supposedly a junked down version (40GB) on the way that eliminates BC, but it also eliminates a bunch of other stuff too. Sony is losing a ton of money on each of these still. They have to eliminate costs to offer a cheaper price point. And it's not even on the market yet anyway.

Let's look at an example from a different angle. Lots of people are miffed that Rock Band for 360 doesn't ship with a wireless guitar. Suppose they offered a separate package for $20-30 more that instead had a wireless guitar. You get to choose your price according to the features. Some would choose the lower price, some would choose the higher price for convenience later on. But this dude would say, "They don't offer wireless! I'm going to buy Guitar Hero III instead!!!" His choice is fine, but it is still based upon a premise that is a lie.

Now when someone is just lying to themselves, sometimes I let it pass and sometimes I mention it. Either way, I don't really care that they live in a world of delusion. But when they call me a fanboy because I simply pointed out their misconception, I am going to call them out. And that is an acceptable, normal reaction in civilized society. I wasn't trying to hurt anyone, just making conversation and I was needlessly attacked. The wrong thing to do is to let people go around being schoolyard bullies. Sure, it may not hurt me at all that he attacked me personally, but there is someone else out there who he is going to be a bigger jerk to who is more sensitive and it may affect them more.

[dmaul1114]

Like I said, if it's too expensive for him, fine. But his original claim was that PS3 lacked BC.

My point was it was clear that his post was saying that just the ONE model of PS3 that he would buy was lacking PS3.

Not that all of their upmteen ridiculous skus lacked BC.

[Richard Longfellow]

Why can't they just drop the 60GB to $400 already? >_< If it drops to $400, then I'd totally bite. I wanna play me some Heavenly Sword and Folklore!

Same here. I was hoping that's what they would do.

[RedvsBlue]

If Sony really wanted to win the console race they'd give the PS3 away for free. Its obvious they're just being stubborn. They don't really want to win the console war obviously.

[dmaul1114]

If Sony really wanted to win the console race they'd give the PS3 away for free. Its obvious they're just being stubborn. They don't really want to win the console war obviously.

No, if they really wanted to win, they would have priced it the same as the 360 from launch.

If they'd done that, they'd have won on brand name alone. Just like they trounced the Dreamcast which had a killer game lineup at the time, while the PS2 game lineup was terrible the first 6 months or so in comparison.

[RedvsBlue]

No, if they really wanted to win, they would have priced it the same as the 360 from launch.

If they'd done that, they'd have won on brand name alone. Just like they trounced the Dreamcast which had a killer game lineup at the time, while the PS2 game lineup was terrible the first 6 months or so in comparison.

...and if they had launched at the 360's price they would have had to make the thing out of inferior parts (which as much of a 360 fan as I am is definetly 360's achilles heel) or tuned down the specs considerably. Sony will rebound, I'm certain of it, otherwise I wouldn't have bought a PS3. Right now, PS3 is the console most equipped for the future. It has the tech for the long-run and it'll show.

And you know, as expensive as the PS3 is, its still considerably cheaper than PC gaming yet no one continiously rags on PC gaming like they do the PS3

[Richard Longfellow]

I'm curious as to what exactly is deleted from the 40 GB PS3 that eliminates PS2 compatibility. It must be a piece of hardware, as it wouldn't save money to just eliminate a software flash. It has to be a chip of some sort in the 80 GB PS3 that controls the PS2 software emulation. And if it is just a single chip or two (we all know the 60GB was the last to have the miniaturized EE), then how much could they really have saved eliminating it? Hopefully someone with more money than sense will dissect one.

[pcktlnt]

Would playing PS2 games on a PS3 burn down the life of the drive? For example playing PS2 CD (blue colored discs) games instead of PS2 DVD games on the earlier models and the laser stopped reading the blue colored ones?

[MorPhiend]

My point was it was clear that his post was saying that just the ONE model of PS3 that he would buy was lacking PS3.

Not that all of their upmteen ridiculous skus lacked BC.And my point is it's now clear how he feels after him trying to insult me, but his initial post wasn't clear. It's fine for someone to add comments. But it's not okay for someone to say that what they said before was something they didn't say and then to call me names.

Clarification happens all the time in life. And that's why peole should question opinions is to better understand what is meant. But backpeddling and name calling are not okay. That's what I have issue with.

Would playing PS2 games on a PS3 burn down the life of the drive? For example playing PS2 CD (blue colored discs) games instead of PS2 DVD games on the earlier models and the laser stopped reading the blue colored ones?No, or else watching regular DVDs would do the same thing. DVD movie playback would have been pulled too if that were the issue. Also, BC isn't being pulled altogether. It's still being put in the 80GB model. If PS2 games were causing warranty problems, I guarantee you the 80GB would be fully gimped as well.

[zerolens]

I guarantee you if the 40GB had BC like 80GB but no wifi some of these guys would still complain. They want everything handed to them on a silver platter.

And dmaul judging by your posts you were trying to save every penny you could but you still chose the premium 360 over the core. You just bought it recently. You could have bought the new cores that have wireless controller, HDMI port, memory card bundled, etc. Without the hard drive you lose BC so you paid the extra money for it. Same applies to the PS3. For $100 more you get the extra USB ports, card slots, 20GB extra space, and near perfect BC, something that can't be said of the 360 or 80/40 GB PS3.

And if pulling out the graphics synthesizer means offering the PS3 $100 cheaper then I'm all for it. That gives them a better chance at selling more consoles, thus getting more PS3 games.

40GB PS3 is a great value from a hardware standpoint. Reliable hardware with built in wifi, blu-ray drive, 20GB extra hard drive space, built in battery in controller (saves you some pennies), free online, etc. for only $50 more over premium 360. Of course I understand someone choosing a 360 over a PS3 but PS3 has now become a great value compared to the 360.

[dmaul1114]

...and if they had launched at the 360's price they would have had to make the thing out of inferior parts (which as much of a 360 fan as I am is definetly 360's achilles heel) or tuned down the specs considerably. Sony will rebound, I'm certain of it, otherwise I wouldn't have bought a PS3. Right now, PS3 is the console most equipped for the future. It has the tech for the long-run and it'll show.


No, they could have just not forced blu ray in it a generation too early, and otherwise used the same parts and launched at $400 pretty easily.

Winning the console war was not their first priority. Above all, they wanted to win the HD disc format war.

And that's fine as I can live without their first party games, and Final Fantasy aside they've lost any third party exclusives I cared about. So the Wii60 has my bases covered.


And you know, as expensive as the PS3 is, its still considerably cheaper than PC gaming yet no one continiously rags on PC gaming like they do the PS3


I do. I fucking hate PC gaming. Expensive to keep upgraded. Mouse controls are great but the keyboard blows donkey balls. Can't stand sitting at a computer to game after sitting at one all day at work. Couch much more comfortable than my desk chair (and any desk chair I've tried). 50" HDTV better than monitor (size FTW) and I'm never going to stick a PC in my hometheater room.

There. Enough of a PC gaming rant for you. :D

[dmaul1114]

I
And dmaul judging by your posts you were trying to save every penny you could but you still chose the premium 360 over the core. You just bought it recently. You could have bought the new cores that have wireless controller, HDMI port, memory card bundled, etc. Without the hard drive you lose BC so you paid the extra money for it. Same applies to the PS3. For $100 more you get the extra USB ports, card slots, 20GB extra space, and near perfect BC, something that can't be said of the 360 or 80/40 GB PS3.



Not at all. The deal from Frys.com was only for the Premium, and included 5 games. The two in all consoles now (Forza 2 and Marvel) and Bioshock, Orange Box and Two Worlds for $400.

So that's $180 of games for $50. Two of the games were must buy, and Two Worlds I plan on trying to exchange at Wal-mart for Halo 3. So it was cheaper to get the Premium than the Arcade/Core when you factor those games in.

And I wanted the hard drive for Demos. I don't care about BC on the 360 as the X-box had a shit game library for my tastes and I played and sold all I wanted on it already.

[RedvsBlue]

No, they could have just not forced blu ray in it a generation too early, and otherwise used the same parts and launched at $400 pretty easily.

Winning the console war was not their first priority. Above all, they wanted to win the HD disc format war.

And that's fine as I can live without their first party games, and Final Fantasy aside they've lost any third party exclusives I cared about. So the Wii60 has my bases covered.

I would tend to agree to a certain extent. However, I am beginning to see that blu ray's massive storage could end up giving them a distinct edge in video game quality in the coming years. That's the reason I mentioned that they've got the tech-specs for the long haul.

I do. I fucking hate PC gaming. Expensive to keep upgraded. Mouse controls are great but the keyboard blows donkey balls. Can't stand sitting at a computer to game after sitting at one all day at work. Couch much more comfortable than my desk chair (and any desk chair I've tried). 50" HDTV better than monitor (size FTW) and I'm never going to stick a PC in my hometheater room.

There. Enough of a PC gaming rant for you. :D

Well at least we're in complete agreement somewhere...

[dallow]

Not at all. The deal from Frys.com was only for the Premium, and included 5 games. The two in all consoles now (Forza 2 and Marvel) and Bioshock, Orange Box and Two Worlds for $400.

So that's $180 of games for $50. Two of the games were must buy, and Two Worlds I plan on trying to exchange at Wal-mart for Halo 3. So it was cheaper to get the Premium than the Arcade/Core when you factor those games in.

And I wanted the hard drive for Demos. I don't care about BC on the 360 as the X-box had a shit game library for my tastes and I played and sold all I wanted on it already.Tsk tsk tsk.

[Tsukento]

Two Worlds I plan on trying to exchange at Wal-mart for Halo 3.
FRAAAAUD

[zerolens]

I'm curious as to what exactly is deleted from the 40 GB PS3 that eliminates PS2 compatibility. It must be a piece of hardware, as it wouldn't save money to just eliminate a software flash. It has to be a chip of some sort in the 80 GB PS3 that controls the PS2 software emulation. And if it is just a single chip or two (we all know the 60GB was the last to have the miniaturized EE), then how much could they really have saved eliminating it? Hopefully someone with more money than sense will dissect one.

60GB and 20GB has Emotion Engine and graphics synthesizer built on to one chip I believe. With the 80GB they got rid of the emotion engine and now has graphics synthesizer as a stand alone chip. 40GB got rid of everything but still has PS1 backwards compatibility which is all software.

80GB has been getting better through fireware updates. They are apparently using software to emulate the emotion engine. I'm of the opinion that for them to go through this trouble to use software to make up the emotion engine and make these updates that either the graphics sysnthesizer version will be around for awhile or this is a gradual process leading to all software emulation of PS2 games.

[aTaRiFrEaK223]

Don't know if this has been posted but Bustbuy.com has it for preorder now.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8588584&st=playstation+3&lp=3&type=product&cp=1&id=1190677842792
Isn't that nice of Sony to throw a mediocre movie in there for free.....

[lowgear26]

I would tend to agree to a certain extent. However, I am beginning to see that blu ray's massive storage could end up giving them a distinct edge in video game quality in the coming years. That's the reason I mentioned that they've got the tech-specs for the long haul.



Well at least we're in complete agreement somewhere...

no offense but How can anyone assume that the Playstation will have a long term future at this point. The life cycle of technology is very small and whos to say that the PS3 will be around in a few years. You have to think short to limited long term (1 year) with these systems.

[dmaul1114]

no offense but How can anyone assume that the Playstation will have a long term future at this point. The life cycle of technology is very small and whos to say that the PS3 will be around in a few years. You have to think short to limited long term (1 year) with these systems.

Systems usually get 4-6 years.

[y2kenjination]

Now before I go out and splurge on a 60GB PS3, there's something I need to know:

The PS3 controllers with rumble should work on the 60 GB systems, right? I don't see any reason why it wouldn't but just checking...

[Mr. Pink]

Now before I go out and splurge on a 60GB PS3, there's something I need to know:

The PS3 controllers with rumble should work on the 60 GB systems, right? I don't see any reason why it wouldn't but just checking...

Yes the controllers with rumble will be compatible with any PS3 version.

[hostyl1]

I'm of the opinion that for them to go through this trouble to use software to make up the emotion engine and make these updates that either the graphics sysnthesizer version will be around for awhile or this is a gradual process leading to all software emulation of PS2 games.

Well let's not forget, that when the PS3 was *first* announced, Sony stated that it was their intention from the beginning to use software emulation. They only later went with a hardware solution, IMO, because the software solution was not going to be ready in time for a Holiday 2006 launch.

I think the *one* thing that we can all agree on is something ChepyD mentioned in on of the recent GAGcasts: Sony clearly did not *want* to launch Holiday 2006. Every decision so far seems to point to Holiday 2007 being the proper launch time. Of course, as someone said, BluRay as a format *was* a consideration (though I'd argue not the *primary* consideration) so they rushed a bit.

But I think the point remains that no one here is *really* buying a PS3 to play PS2 games. Again, I fully admit that it is a nice feature to have, but the real problem with the PS3 is not PS2 games. If it was, all the fully BC console would have *been* gone from the shelves. No, the PS3's problem is two-fold: price and PS3 software. Getting a PS3 down to $400 is a good start, whether it has BC or not. Now they need to work on the PS3 software side of things, as new-gen software is why Microsoft is handing them their azz!

As for the point about being "screwed" several years down the line if your EE/synthesizer PS3 dies, I'm a bit shocked that this is such a concern. If older hardware wears out, you basically just deal with it. I bought a stero many years ago that gave me the promise of playing both cassettes and vinyl. The turntable broke recently. Does that company owe me a new system that can play both tapes an vinyl even though that company doesnt make consumer turntables anymore? No, that would be silly.

If for some reason your PS3 craps out several years from now. You'd simply search around for a replacement. No different than if I needed a new Sega Genesis cord or an NES 72pin connector. 20+ plus years later these parts are still available. Why do you think it would be such a burden in the future for PS3/PS2 compatibility?

And people who say they wish they could get a full BC system for $400, you still *can*. The 20GB is still being sold @ Gamestop. You can buy systems from ebay. There are other deals around that bring down the effective price. We are all CAGs here so I *know* you are smart enough to find the deals.

But, IMO, I dont think price is a big a deal to most ppl posting here as they would have you to believe. The biggest issue is software, specifically PS3 software. I know that's the deal breaker for me. I think the pricing on the systems is okay, but there just isnt anything out on the system that I feel I *need* to play today. My 360 keeps me full up with games to play so why would I buy a second system to play the same games?

So get on it Sony. Get that PS3 library up to snuff!
(sorry for the disseretation length post)

[Guy Legend]

Don't know if this has been posted but Bustbuy.com has it for preorder now.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8588584&st=playstation+3&lp=3&type=product&cp=1&id=1190677842792
Isn't that nice of Sony to throw a mediocre movie in there for free.....

From Best Buy's 40 gb description

"*Plays your old PlayStation 2 and PlayStation games, DVDs and CDs, so you can merge all of your entertainment into one machine"

Very nice...... #-o

[CaptPete]

Hey, did anyone see this snippet from Jack Tretton, from a Wall Street Journal interview, summarized by Gamespot:

"Tretton told the paper that taking support for PS2 games out of the new system isn't dramatically cutting manufacturing costs. However, by omitting the option of playing PS2 games, Sony hopes that new customers will instead spend their money on more PS3 games. He added that Sony's own research suggests that customers won't miss the feature because they probably already own a PS2."

I'm speechless. While I do at least respect him for telling the truth about it, this sort of thing still pisses me off. Sony has been so fucking schizophrenic and boneheaded this console cycle it blows my mind.

[D_Icon]

So is the 80GB PS3 $499 everywhere or just GameStop? BestBuy's ad has it at $599 so does T_R_Us.

Also, Mario BRAWL is advertised as if it will be released on 12/4? I thought it was gonna be delayed to 2008?

[dmaul1114]

So is the 80GB PS3 $499 everywhere or just GameStop? BestBuy's ad has it at $599 so does T_R_Us.

Also, Mario BRAWL is advertised as if it will be released on 12/4? I thought it was gonna be delayed to 2008?

It's Super Smash Bros Brawl, and yes it's delayed until Feb 10th. And the PS3 price drop is everywhere.

Ads are printed weeks in advance, so that one was printed before the Smash Bros delay and before they had word of th e price drop.

[nintendokid]

So what will happen to the few 60GB versions that are still out there? There are actually two 60GB at my local BB. Heck, if those drop to $399, I'd charge and keep it sealed just so I can contemplate for a few weeks if I can afford to keep it or just refund it.

[D_Icon]

It's Super Smash Bros Brawl, and yes it's delayed until Feb 10th. And the PS3 price drop is everywhere.

Ads are printed weeks in advance, so that one was printed before the Smash Bros delay and before they had word of th e price drop.


ok thanks for clarifying.

[dmaul1114]

So what will happen to the few 60GB versions that are still out there? There are actually two 60GB at my local BB. Heck, if those drop to $399, I'd charge and keep it sealed just so I can contemplate for a few weeks if I can afford to keep it or just refund it.

They're staying at $499 unless some store puts them on sale. Sony didn't cut the price on them.

[dmaul1114]

FRAAAAUD

Fraud? I guess. Do I care? No, especially not when it's Wal-mart. Did it work and make a sweet deal even sweeter. You bet! :D