View Full Version : Will Wright: "Wii is the only next-gen console"
PyroGamer
10-26-2007, 01:42 PM
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=174502
The Sims and Spore creator Will Wright has labelled Wii the only true next-generation console out of the three new console platforms on the market.
"Somebody asked me what I thought next generation meant and what about the PlayStation 3 was next generation. The only next gen system I've seen is the Wii - the PS3 and the Xbox 360 feel like better versions of the last, but pretty much the same game with incremental improvement", Wright told Guardian Unlimited.Same game? I think old Will Wright has gone senile. He can't even differentiate between videogame CONSOLES and the VIDEOGAMES themselves.
Wii, Wright continued, feels like a major jump, "not that the graphics are more powerful, but that it hits a completely different demographic".
He said in some sense he sees Nintendo's console as the most significant thing that's happened in the console space in quite a while.
Wright went on to reveal that he has an Xbox 360 at home "collecting dust in the background", with a Wii hooked up that "we use quite a bit". He doesn't own a PS3, apparently.In other words he doesn't play console videogames, except for a bit of Wii Sports. So why the fuck is this guy talking about console videogames with us? If you haven't been playing the games out on the 360 lately, you have been missing some of the greatest innovation and quality game development in the past couple years, and you have no business talking about game innovation with us.
"I still, for the most part, prefer playing games on the computer - to me the mouse is the best input device ever", he added.
"Every generation it's like 'the PC's dead! The PC's dead!'. But it carries on growing when consoles are flat for five years. At the moment I can get better graphics on my PC than I can on the PS3." Consoles are flat for five years? This man is crazy. If you're going to say that, it's equally as valid to say the PC has been stuck on Half Life for the past 10 years.
My IQ litteraly went down 10 points after reading this man's knee-jerk statements. I respect you for your contributions to gaming, Will, but you're completely out of it, friend. Go back to making Spore, hell, maybe you'll actually be able to release it sometime in the next 10 years.
evanft
10-26-2007, 01:44 PM
Yeah, I have no fucking idea where he's coming from.
botticus
10-26-2007, 01:45 PM
The most important thing in this interview is that he said they're working on Spore for Wii.
Mookyjooky
10-26-2007, 01:50 PM
The most important thing in this interview is that he said they're working on Spore for Wii.
Makes sense, moving a mouse and moving a wiimote are pretty much the exact same thing, but on different planes.
Wiil Wright has always been this idiotic... the thing is, he's not even the head programmer for these games anymore... its like coming up with an idea, and the having everyone else do the hard work, and you make it like it was all you. Kinda like Kojima and Miyamoto.
Dr Mario Kart
10-26-2007, 01:51 PM
no argument from me
benjamouth
10-26-2007, 01:53 PM
Well he's as entitled to his opinion as I am entitled to ignore it.
PyroGamer
10-26-2007, 01:55 PM
Makes sense, moving a mouse and moving a wiimote are pretty much the exact same thing, but on different planes.
Wiil Wright has always been this idiotic... the thing is, he's not even the head programmer for these games anymore... its like coming up with an idea, and the having everyone else do the hard work, and you make it like it was all you. Kinda like Kojima and Miyamoto.
Hey. Don't you ever diss the Miyamoto. I will pop a cap in your ass.
RedvsBlue
10-26-2007, 02:02 PM
This guy's one to be talkin' about "incremental improvements"... He's been riding his one trick pony for damn near 20 years now. I mean for christ's sake, how many different things can you fucking sim?
jollydwarf
10-26-2007, 02:07 PM
It's a good thing The Sims as a franchise didn't ever see "incremental improvements".
Also, the Sims 'target demographic' and the 'new' gamers enticed by the Wii have NOTHING in common.
War Spore as E3 '10 "Game of Show", war 'big names' fueling message boards for years to come, and I'm out!
Apossum
10-26-2007, 02:38 PM
I mean for christ's sake, how many different things can you fucking sim?
well...just about everything, theoretically. :lol:
I've given up keeping track of "gens." For the entire life of the industry, "next gen" has been defined as better graphics, maybe some new buttons on the controller, switching from cart to cd, etc. So now the Wii as a new controller and has sold a lot of systems, thus it's the only next gen console? Bullshit.
"Next gen" has no definition, the only thing it definitely means is that a system is an upgrade from the previous gen. The PS3 + 360 don't need new control options to be next gen. I'm starting to think there's a disease out there that causes people to think exclusively in dualities...
RedvsBlue
10-26-2007, 02:54 PM
well...just about everything, theoretically. :lol:
Well maybe he can sim himself up some new ideas? I mean really, what is so new and innovative about Spore? Its just an expanded version of his previous sim stuff. Sure there's a lot of new tech under the hood of the game but at the end of the day its not what I'd "next gen."
Oh yeah, I went there.
I've given up keeping track of "gens." For the entire life of the industry, "next gen" has been defined as better graphics, maybe some new buttons on the controller, switching from cart to cd, etc. So now the Wii as a new controller and has sold a lot of systems, thus it's the only next gen console? Bullshit.
"Next gen" has no definition, the only thing it definitely means is that a system is an upgrade from the previous gen. The PS3 + 360 don't need new control options to be next gen. I'm starting to think there's a disease out there that causes people to think exclusively in dualities...
I could care less what "gen" we're in right now. Fact of the matter is, Wii got boring quick for me, both times I owned one. 360 and PS3 have already provided me much more entertainment value. As someone in this thread already mentioned anyway, the guy hasn't even really played the Wii outside of Wii Sports anyway so why should we believe he's even touched the PS3 or 360?
Apossum
10-26-2007, 03:17 PM
Well maybe he can sim himself up some new ideas? I mean really, what is so new and innovative about Spore? Its just an expanded version of his previous sim stuff. Sure there's a lot of new tech under the hood of the game but at the end of the day its not what I'd "next gen."
Oh yeah, I went there.
oh no you di'int!
I could care less what "gen" we're in right now. Fact of the matter is, Wii got boring quick for me, both times I owned one. 360 and PS3 have already provided me much more entertainment value. As someone in this thread already mentioned anyway, the guy hasn't even really played the Wii outside of Wii Sports anyway so why should we believe he's even touched the PS3 or 360?
agreed, though I don't think any of them are currently worth it.
handhelds + PS2 + PC ftw!
Puffa469
10-26-2007, 04:31 PM
Will Wright is making Spore for the PC and the Wii, and not the 360 or the PS3.
What did you expect him to say? lol
-Never4ever-
10-26-2007, 04:33 PM
no argument from me
Same here.
The Wii (as a console) is a step forward in evolution, while both 360 & PS3 are more like side shuffles.
daroga
10-26-2007, 04:38 PM
Same here.
The Wii (as a console) is a step forward in evolution, while both 360 & PS3 are more like side shuffles.True enough. The Wii is something new while the 360 and PS3 are more of the same.
Not that there's anything wrong with more of the same, but it is taking the interactivity (and demographic) of video games to a place it hadn't been before.
As to whether or not it's better than anything else, well, that's wholly subjective. :)
Theduck
10-26-2007, 04:44 PM
Will wright says something and fanboys get upset.
I think he's right about everything he said, but I love my 360 to death and my wii is just sitting there collecting dust.
msdmoney
10-26-2007, 05:16 PM
True enough. The Wii is something new while the 360 and PS3 are more of the same.
Not that there's anything wrong with more of the same, but it is taking the interactivity (and demographic) of video games to a place it hadn't been before.
As to whether or not it's better than anything else, well, that's wholly subjective. :)
I agree, I think people are being very reactionary to his statements. You can think the Wii is the most innovative and only "next gen" console but still enjoy the more traditional xbox 360. I definitely think the Wii is the most innovative, but the 360 has it beat in software at this point.
Tybee
10-26-2007, 05:34 PM
My my...Look at all the 360 and PS3 backers getting testy. I think Will is oversimplifying things a bit, but I do think he has a point.
The PS3 is MOTS defined. Lots and lots of power, but very little in the true innovation department (at least so far...Little Big Planet is the only thing I've seen to make me think this will change down the road).
The 360, on the other hand, has a teriffic library. But while titles like BioShock, Halo 3, Orange Box, and no doubt Mass Effect are all GREAT GAMES, they're mostly variations on established themes. Like the PS3, the 360 was designed to carry on the same gaming that's been going on for 30 years, but with more power and better graphics. That said, I think the Xbox and the 360 ARE responsible for a major innovation in gaming, that being the successful design and implementation of a robust online community. But the games that are being played in that community are just ultra-refined versions of the things we've been playing for years.
The Wii still has a lot to prove, and right now only a small percentage of its titles are truly innovative, but when you play a game like Zack & Wiki (and I strongly suggest that you do), you just feel the originality. And you realize that this is not an experience that could be ported to any other platform (including the PC). That's what he's talking about, and I think he's right, even if he said it in kind of a naive way.
hostyl1
10-26-2007, 05:38 PM
Wow, I'm a little suprised at the backlash. Though with the internets being as they are, perhaps I shouldn't be suprised by anything.
While I dont agree with everything he said, I think there is some validity to his comments. Truely, the 360 and PS3 *are* pretty much the same as the last generation with improvements in graphics and online functionality. The Wii, OTOH, has changed the way publishers will look at the market. Wii has become a phenomenon in a way that neither the 360 nor the PS3 has. Wii has expanded not only the market, or how one interacts with a video game, but Wii is pushing the boundaries of what *is* a video game.
The funny thing is, Sony and Microsoft should have seen it coming. With the success of Guitar Hero and Dance Dance Revolution...not to mention the DS, the signs were there that the market was ripe for a controller innovation. Nintendo seems to be the only one who cared that 'non-gamers' didnt play console games, not because they didnt like video games (see The Sims, Bejeweled, et al.) but because the games because too long and too complex. My wife, for example, likes watching me play video games but wont play many of them with me because she thinks there are "too many buttons". Wii takes this challenge head on.
Funny aside, the thing she is looking forward to the most on PS3 is Home. :)
However, to say one thing against Will, I think the innovation of the PS3 especially will not be realized until later in the lifecycle (assuming it survives that long which I think it will). I think this innovation will come in the form of improved AI where the 'game world' will dynamically respond to your choices. Where there is not so much a set path to the games, but rather the games truely adapt to your tactics. Where in Madden you'll have that one AI game where they kick an onside kick to start the game. Where in Call of Duty you'll see unorthodox tactics. Basically, wherein the AI begins to act a bit irrationally...like an actual person. I think the PS3 has the horsepower to begin to bring that to life.
no argument from me
Thus accentuating its falsehood.
reicaden
10-26-2007, 05:57 PM
Talk about coming from left field... Whhooooaaaaaa. get a grip buddy. Get. a. grip.
Redeema
10-26-2007, 05:58 PM
I don't really have a problem with what he said. I agree to a smaller extent. As for the OP saying the Xbox 360 has lots of innovation, I would disagree with that more than anything Will Wright has said. Solid and great games? Yes! Innovative...not so much.
Is Wii the only true next gen console? I don't know. It's all subjective. I thought they were all "next-gen" apparently I don't know squat. Though, I can certainly see his argument. In terms of furthering the industry and console design as a whole it seems to be the only console deviating from the norm, which is "more power = better for consumers".
I've got all three consoles now, they all seem to do something better than the other in various fields. Let's just call them all next-gen, go out and play them and call it a day.
Last points, to Pyrogamer- the guy is rich, and a developer. Chances are that he can afford every Wii game imaginable not to mention that he possibly plays current in-development games.
That ties in with the fact that he probably can and does have a PC that can out perform a PS3. Let him have his bias like apparently so many people here have. You guys ripping on him is no better than him ripping on certain systems.
War the first time I ever laugh at anything jollydwarf says. Apparently he's a clone, too.
zewone
10-26-2007, 06:17 PM
If that's what you call innovation, than sign me up for more of the same.
PyroGamer
10-26-2007, 07:20 PM
AT BEST Wii has the POTENTIAL to do great things, but it sure as hell isn't doing them as of now. If Will was saying he was excited about exploiting the potential of the system to make great games and push the industry forward, I'd be all behind him. Right now he's just being stupid.
That being said, if you honestly think you need to wave around a controller to innovate, you're insane. Innovation is in GAMES, it's done by DEVELOPERS bringing new and better innovative gameplay.
True innovation in videogames has never been from some new controller or some new input device. It's always been from developers exploiting the new power given to them by each new generation of consoles.
OMG POWER GLOVE NINTENDO IS SO INNOVATIVE! OMG TILT PACK GO NINTENDO! OMG LIGHTGUN NINTENDO IS INNOVATION mASTER!!! OMG VIRTUAL BOY NINTENDO IS TAKING GAMING TO A WHOLE NEW LEVEL!!!
No. It's never been that way. Years from now we will remember the GAMES, not the input devices.
Dr Mario Kart
10-26-2007, 08:12 PM
Analog stick disagrees.
Of course to the user the games are what is going to be notable, but the controls are the unsung heroes of the story of what makes games great. Its what the whole concept of gameplay revolves around: user interaction. Therefore its also the core of what game development revolves around: what the user can and cant do.
You still have to design your game well, but all games are designed around their respective controllers. Nintendo goes further and designs the very machine around the new game concepts that they cannot accomplish with the current controllers.
gamegal
10-26-2007, 08:19 PM
Do not forget Nintendo made there own version of the SimCity both on the SNES and once again on the DD64. The SimCity and Nintendo is practically joined at the hips. In fact I have a copy of SimCity sitting in my SNES right now with the city of freedom inside the slot
The only next gen system I've seen is the Wii - the PS3 and the Xbox 360 feel like better versions of the last, but pretty much the same game with incremental improvement
This is what I have been saying to myself for the last couple of days since the 360 was released. He is right however I myself would choose the PS3 seeing it is the only real choice.
Just don't listen to WR is completely insane. He invested millions of dollars to make his own robot family with the money he got from the SIMS. My only guess is that Hillary is going to win and ban all violent videogames since nobody wants to vote on Obama who want to go hunting for terrorist in India.
schuerm26
10-26-2007, 08:23 PM
AT BEST Wii has the POTENTIAL to do great things, but it sure as hell isn't doing them as of now. If Will was saying he was excited about exploiting the potential of the system to make great games and push the industry forward, I'd be all behind him. Right now he's just being stupid.
That being said, if you honestly think you need to wave around a controller to innovate, you're insane. Innovation is in GAMES, it's done by DEVELOPERS bringing new and better innovative gameplay.
True innovation in videogames has never been from some new controller or some new input device. It's always been from developers exploiting the new power given to them by each new generation of consoles.
OMG POWER GLOVE NINTENDO IS SO INNOVATIVE! OMG TILT PACK GO NINTENDO! OMG LIGHTGUN NINTENDO IS INNOVATION mASTER!!! OMG VIRTUAL BOY NINTENDO IS TAKING GAMING TO A WHOLE NEW LEVEL!!!
No. It's never been that way. Years from now we will remember the GAMES, not the input devices.
I'll take Metroid Prime 3's controls over a dual analog any day. Innovation? Up to you to decide, but I would say, hell yes it is innovation for a console.
Same goes for Wii Sports. Same goes for Mercury Meltdown (play PSP and then the Wii version, tell me which is better and more innovative).
What exactly constitutes inovation on a standard controller? Pressing A more than twice to attack? What game for the 360 or PS3 is innovative? Im not saying there aren't any, Im just wanting some examples.
Dr Mario Kart
10-26-2007, 08:31 PM
Dead Rising is a good example. The design requires a number of on screen enemies that really could not be done prior to now due to power constraints.
I dont have a lot of examples though.
schuerm26
10-26-2007, 08:50 PM
Dead Rising is a good example. The design requires a number of on screen enemies that really could not be done prior to now due to power constraints.
I dont have a lot of examples though.
That's just more on screen enemies with the exact same combat as before. That's innovation? Not saying it's a bad game, as I like it, but innovative?
zewone
10-26-2007, 08:53 PM
:lol:
What's an innovative Wii game than, schuerm26?
gamegal
10-26-2007, 09:05 PM
Dead Rising
This game was based entirely for the sole purpose of replacing the Resident Evil series. The game itself while being nicely detailed could also have been done on a multitude of systems.
whoknows
10-26-2007, 09:09 PM
If that's what you call innovation, than sign me up for more of the same.
Agreed.
The Crotch
10-26-2007, 09:12 PM
Simple response: Meh. Will Wright does not get to decide what is and is not "next-gen".
The important bit: Gimme my fucking Spore Wii! And please, for the love of god, let there be an option to invade other players' planets.
:lol:
What's an innovative Wii game than, schuerm26?I'd go with the game that the entire Wii board is drooling over (except for me - too busy threatening people to buy Fire Emblem) at the moment. Kinda ironic given its genre, but still.
BUY fuckING FIRE EMBLEM!
PyroGamer
10-26-2007, 09:14 PM
Analog stick disagrees.Bullshit. What have analog sticks done that mouse and keyboard didn't do before, and better?
Analog sticks didn't spawn games, games spawned analog sticks.
You keep playing your analog sticks, I'll keep playing my GAMES.I'd go with the game that the entire Wii board is drooling over ..... Fire Emblem
That game looks just like Path of Radiance, as far as I can tell. Great gameplay? Sure. Innovation? Not so much.
could also have been done on a multitude of systems.
EXACTLY. THAT'S THE POINT. It's not about the consoles, it's about the GAMES that the consoles give the developer the power to make!
MorPhiend
10-26-2007, 09:17 PM
I'll take Metroid Prime 3's controls over a dual analog any day. Innovation? Up to you to decide, but I would say, hell yes it is innovation for a console.
Same goes for Wii Sports. Same goes for Mercury Meltdown (play PSP and then the Wii version, tell me which is better and more innovative).
What exactly constitutes inovation on a standard controller? Pressing A more than twice to attack? What game for the 360 or PS3 is innovative? Im not saying there aren't any, Im just wanting some examples.What's more is Casamassina and Bozon have been saying that The folks over at EA have blown MP3's controls out of the water with Medal of Honor: Heroes 2. I have never like MoH, but I look forward to trying this one if it's that good.
I can't fathom the amounts of whiny fanboyism in here. The guy voiced his opinion on innovation and from the complaints, you would think it was another cartoon with a bomb on Mohammed's head. I have always been a Nintendo guy myself. No secret there. But I have an original Xbox and this summer got a PS3. I have really enjoyed traditional games like GRAW2, VF5, Warhawk, Vegas, all of my PS2 games I never played because I never got around to buying a PS2 and the BluRay movies. I don't regret the purchase a bit. But I agree that it's all just more of the same in a slightly prettier package. Now, that's not a bad thing. More of the same from an industry that has been mostly growing for 20 years. That's not an insult at all. The point is that it really doesn't do anything to improve upon the formula.
"Hardcore" gamers can disagree with this all they want, but the facts don't disagree. Wii has managed to get ahead of the 360 by over 1 million sales in less than 11 months and 360 is almost 2 years old at this point. And this is without Nintendo's two most "hardcore" gamer demographic games being out yet (SMG and SSBB). And this is with a constant shortage of consoles (they never stay on the shelf for very long even today). And this is with all of these "quick and dirty" PS2/PSP ports being the games that are mostly available. You know, there is going to have to be a point somewhere when some of you are going to have to admit that Nintendo must be doing something right that the other companies are missing. And that something is that they are moving the industry forward more than Sony or MS could even hope to at this point. You may not like the Wii, but it is a work of high innovation.
zewone
10-26-2007, 09:20 PM
I'd go with the game that the entire Wii board is drooling over
What game is that?
(I'm pretty sure you weren't talking about Fire Emblem.)
The Crotch
10-26-2007, 09:21 PM
You keep playing your analog sticks, I'll keep playing my GAMES.
That game looks just like Path of Radiance, as far as I can tell. Great gameplay? Sure. Innovation? Not so much.
Congratulations! You misread my post.
Zewone: Zack & Wiki
Puffa469
10-26-2007, 09:21 PM
:lol:
What's an innovative Wii game than, schuerm26?
I think games like Wii Sports, Trauma Center, Cooking Mama are all pretty innovative games.
Keep in mind that innovative does not necessarily equal good.
Nintendo has always innovated with their controllers and game systems. They create new types of control, and developers find new ways to take advantage of it.
The NES afaik, was the first controller with TWO buttons, that was innovation back then. I think the D-Pad was innovative back then too. The SNES upped it to 6 buttons. You saw companies like Sega play catchup by finally releasing a six button controller for the Genesis.
N64 had the first analog stick on a console. The controller could be held in different ways to play different games. Hell, I could rock Wave Race 64 (innovative water physics) with one hand!
The DS has tons of innovation. Sony cant even put a second analog nub on the PSP, making most 3d games control horribly. Its like having a portable ps2 with a broken controller. Why do I feel that the Playstation 5 will be controlled by the Dualshock 5?
Not everything Nintendo does turns out great, the Virtual Boy has already been mentioned, but at least they think about doing things in new and better ways. Sony and Microsoft just give you bigger, faster, more.
Theres nothing wrong with that, I like traditional games played in traditional ways. But when Will Wright says that the Wii is innovative and the other two consoles arent, hes basically right.
I do give props to MS for innovating online gaming and community with LIVE tho.
MorPhiend
10-26-2007, 09:22 PM
Bullshit. What have analog sticks done that mouse and keyboard didn't do before, and better?
Analog sticks didn't spawn games, games spawned analog sticks.
You keep playing your analog sticks, I'll keep playing my GAMES.
That game looks just like Path of Radiance, as far as I can tell. Great gameplay? Sure. Innovation? Not so much.
EXACTLY. THAT'S THE POINT. It's not about the consoles, it's about the games that the consoles give the developer the power to make!hmmm... Mario 64 with a mouse and keyboard.... You're right. Way better. Katamari with a mouse and keyboard. What were they thinking putting it on PS2??? Man, when you make a point, you sure go all the way. I wish I had your logic.
PyroGamer
10-26-2007, 09:23 PM
You know, there is going to have to be a point somewhere when some of you are going to have to admit that Nintendo must be doing something right that the other companies are missing.• $250
• Mario
• Gimmicky controller people that don't play games like (and judging from the attach rate on Wii games, and the statistics saying some 30% of people don't play their Wii, people who still don't play games even after buying their Wii)
Man, when you make a point, you sure go all the way. I wish I had your logic.
Yeah, because the best points are always ideological blanket statements with no exceptions.
:roll:
MorPhiend
10-26-2007, 09:31 PM
• $250
• Mario
• Gimmicky controller people that don't play games like (and judging from the attach rate on Wii games, and the statistics saying some 30% of people don't play their Wii, people who still don't play games even after buying their Wii)
Yeah, because the best points are always ideological blanket statements with no exceptions.
:roll:I'm not sure what you are trying to say in either comment. I mean, gimmicky controller? If all there was that used it well is Wii Sports, you might have a slight point. But obviously you glaze over real points. It has been mentioned a few times that MP3 has great FPS controls that shame dual analog (and even PC setups for some people). And I already mentioned the point that Medal of Honor has recently been noted to outdo even MP3's controls. You not liking something =/= gimmicky. It means you don't like something. Period. That would be like me saying that XBL is gimmicky just because I don't typically play online games because I don't typically like them.
And you're the only one making blanket generalizations. So I don't know what you're rolling your eyes at. You said analog hadn't ever done anything better than a keyboard and mouse. I gave you a couple of very good, very specific examples. Again, your logic baffles.
The Crotch
10-26-2007, 09:37 PM
I think games like Wii Sports, Trauma Center, Cooking Mama are all pretty innovative games.
Two of those three were already on the DS...
Dr Mario Kart
10-26-2007, 09:38 PM
Bullshit. What have analog sticks done that mouse and keyboard didn't do before, and better?
This is something we can agree on. Dual stick is garbage compared to mouse and keyboard. However, we dont have that on consoles, so we have to work with what we have, which is severe user limitations in genres like FPS and RTS.
PyroGamer
10-26-2007, 09:40 PM
Katamari was built upon the whole principle of analog sticks. So what? You want a bunch of games taking advantage of the dual analog setup to do something new?
I don't. I want the games to be the games, not the controllers. Katamari was fun, mind you, but it's hardly an amazing pivitol ground-breaking game that spawned its own genre.
As for Mario 64... You think Nintendo was the first to use joysticks in a 3D game? The game itself was innovative, definitely. It brought the platformer to 3D. I will definitely remember Mario 64 as one of the most innovative games of all time.
The controller? Sure, innovative. But it wasn't ZOMG THE ANALOG STICK MAKES TEH N64 GREATEST SYSTEM OF ALL TIME. And analog sticks were quickly accepted as a necessary part of a controller. Hell, PS1 1-uped them and made dual-analogs, which was another step in innovation that is now accepted as standard (kind of like having 2 buttons, six buttons, etc).
zewone
10-26-2007, 09:40 PM
Wii Sports wasn't that innovative.
It had been done before by those cheap videogame systems you see at pharmacys and swap meets.
http://www.searchamateur.com/Baseball-Online-Games/tv-baseball-video-game.jpg
Dr Mario Kart
10-26-2007, 09:43 PM
Look at the distributions of genres across the different consoles, and try to design the games now around the previous controllers (of course this applies to dual shock and prior since they havent changed since then).
It gets increasingly more difficult, especially when you get down to a d-pad and two buttons. Add all the power you want. See how much the genres are limited by the input.
Puffa469
10-26-2007, 09:43 PM
Two of those three were already on the DS...
And they were innovative there as well. A stylus and the Wiimote are both more suitable to playing those games than an analog stick.
Monkeyball was on ps2 and cube first, but imo, it wasnt until the Wii version that the true potential of the game was unlocked.
Rayman Raving Rabbids is another example. I cant even imagine playing it on the PS2 or 360 or whatever other systems its since been ported to.
Zack n Wiki, Mercury Meltdown, both games that simply wouldnt work as well played on traditional controllers.
zewone
10-26-2007, 09:44 PM
Zack n Wiki, Mercury Meltdown, both games that simply wouldnt work as well played on traditional controllers.
For every game on the Wii that wouldn't work with a traditional controllers, there are more games that work better with a traditional controller than a Wii remote.
Rei no Otaku
10-26-2007, 09:46 PM
If that's what you call innovation, than sign me up for more of the same.
:applause:
Puffa469
10-26-2007, 09:47 PM
Have you ever played those games? I have, they suck. You swing the bat and then the batter does his swing animation. With Wiisports you can recreate individual baseball players unique batting stances in real time. Its not even in the same ballpark (pun intended). Also, who wants to buy a console thay only plays ONE game? Thats not innovative at all, that brings us all the way back to the dedicated pong console days.
Wii Sports wasn't that innovative.
It had been done before by those cheap videogame systems you see at pharmacys and swap meets.
http://www.searchamateur.com/Baseball-Online-Games/tv-baseball-video-game.jpg
PyroGamer
10-26-2007, 09:48 PM
Also, who wants to buy a console thay only plays ONE game? Thats not innovative at all, that brings us all the way back to the dedicated pong console days.
It's not supposed to be a console.
The point is motion control has been done before. Nintendo was just the first people crazy enough to put it in their console (and the only people talented enough to pull it off well).
zewone
10-26-2007, 09:49 PM
Have you ever played those games? I have, they suck. You swing the bat and then the batter does his swing animation. With Wiisports you can recreate individual baseball players unique batting stances in real time. Its not even in the same ballpark (pun intended). Also, who wants to buy a console thay only plays ONE game? Thats not innovative at all, that brings us all the way back to the dedicated pong console days.
Well, of course the experience is going to be better with Wii Sports. It has more power and is being developed by people with more experience than those one-game systems.
That doesn't mean they didn't do it first.
Puffa469
10-26-2007, 09:52 PM
For every game on the Wii that wouldn't work with a traditional controllers, there are more games that work better with a traditional controller than a Wii remote.
Your right. Im not arguing that Wii controls are better for every game, just that they open up the doors to new kinds of gaming experiences that dont really work on standard controllers. Thats innovation.
I never want to give up my dual analog stick controls for certain games, same with mouse + kb. Theres room for all these control schemes and more. DDR games suck without the dance pads, ya know?
There have been new & innovative games that used the dual analog sticks as well. Katamari is one, Ape Escape is another.
I simply agree with Wright when he says that the Wii is more innovative than the 360/ps3, at least when it comes to control.
http://www.sublimeparadigm.com/blog/wp-images/powerglove.jpg
The Crotch
10-26-2007, 09:56 PM
shhh! Ignorance is bliss for fanboys.
Oh, hush up. Someone else being wrong doesn't make you right.
Puffa469
10-26-2007, 09:59 PM
Well, of course the experience is going to be better with Wii Sports. It has more power and is being developed by people with more experience than those one-game systems.
That doesn't mean they didn't do it first.
Well at this point everythigs already been done right? Technically, every videogame made shoud pay a royalty to Ralph Baer and Nolan Bushnell.
Even the games Ive listed as 'innovative' borrow from older games. Katamari controls just like Tank Combat games from the late 70's. Monkey Ball is Marble Madness. Dual stick controls? Karate Champ, Robotron, etc.
daroga
10-26-2007, 10:00 PM
Bullshit. What have analog sticks done that mouse and keyboard didn't do before, and better?The 3D Platformer. Play that with a mouse and/or keyboard and tell me the analog stick was worthless.
I find it funny that for as many people are saying "This guy r moron!!1", you're all sure taking his subjective opinions pretty personally.
The 360 & PS3 do more of the same and, in so far as the companies put effort into the games, do it well.
The Wii brings some new control and game ideas to the table and, in so far as the companies put effort into the games, does it well.
I guess I don't see what's so hard to understand about this, or why one man can't have an opinion.
zewone
10-26-2007, 10:00 PM
Well at this point everythigs already been done right? Technically, every videogame made shoud pay a royalty to Ralph Baer and Nolan Bushnell.
Even the games Ive listed as 'innovative' borrow from older games. Katamari controls just like Tank Combat games from the late 70's. Monkey Ball is Marble Madness. Dual stick controls? Karate Champ, Robotron, etc.
Yep, everything has been done, so just enjoy yourself with what we get.
Puffa469
10-26-2007, 10:02 PM
Yep, everything has been done, so just enjoy yourself with what we get.
Damn straight! :D
Dr Mario Kart
10-26-2007, 10:03 PM
I heard the Wii setup actually has buttons.
PyroGamer
10-26-2007, 10:03 PM
I guess I don't see what's so hard to understand about this, or why one man can't have an opinion.
And I can have my opinion that his is bullshit.
zerowing
10-26-2007, 10:06 PM
I have to kind of agree with Will here. While it is a blanket statement that puts people into an uproar it has its truths. While "nex-gen" was always "add a button here, and improve the graphics," we have gotten to the point that graphical leaps just don't happen. When I first saw the PS2 playing Madden I went "whoa, thats amazing." But now when I see the 360 and PS3, its not the leap that the SNES made to the N64 or the PS1 to the PS2.
We've gotten to the point that graphics are impressive yes, but the improvement is almost minimal, thats where Will Wright's statement comes in. The addition of the motion controls has created endless amounts of oppurtunities for developers to expand upon, while the 360 and PS3 is just more of the same. If we ever want the ultra-realistic Virtual Reality (I know everyone wants this one day) we have to take steps, Sony and Microsoft played it safe while Nintendo took a step in a new direction, true innovation. Sure you can say "well its boring blah blah," I can reply with "things like this take time, you need an innovator at the development spot to create something that blows everyone away." Super Mario 64 set the standard and blew everyone away with its controls, it will happen again with the Wii. Something will come out and demolish all notions that the Wii is a gimmick.
Go ahead and be content with more of the same, but if we want real progress you have to take a step in that direction, not just stand still and be content with better graphics.
daroga
10-26-2007, 10:10 PM
And I can have my opinion that his is bullshit.Well, sure. It just seems like the title of this thread is "Will Wright said your mother is stupid... and you're ugly."
There's certainly nothing wrong with more of the same. And yet, there's nothing wrong with something new. I like them both!
Rei no Otaku
10-26-2007, 10:10 PM
If we ever want the ultra-realistic Virtual Reality (I know everyone wants this one day)
I don't.
As much as I hate him, I have to agree with Itagaki's comments about the Wii. It's more input for the same output. I'll pass.
Until I start seeing AAA titles that are tailor made for the Wii, utilizing everything that the console has to offer, then I'll try to see things differently.
All I'm seeing now are PS2 titles with cumbersome, tacked-on motion controls.
That's not next-gen.
The only two games that interest me, currently, on the Wii, are Paper Mario and Twilight Princess... which I'd rather play on the GameCube, as they were intended.
I'm not going to pay $250+ for something that should have - and easily could have - been a GameCube accessory.
I'm sorry.
When developers see that it's easier to port their PS2 pieces of shit to the Wii, slap on some shittily-done Wiimote controls, and they sell like hot cakes... that creates a deadly cycle -- one that has been going on for the past year.
Dr Mario Kart
10-26-2007, 10:13 PM
Not exactly the same. A lot of the output, lets say, a cursor moving across the screen or in the in-game environment cant be replicated in any way with the traditional controller scheme. Unless you want to count output as something displaying on a screen, then yes.
Apossum
10-26-2007, 10:16 PM
Analog stick disagrees.
Of course to the user the games are what is going to be notable, but the controls are the unsung heroes of the story of what makes games great. Its what the whole concept of gameplay revolves around: user interaction. Therefore its also the core of what game development revolves around: what the user can and cant do.
You still have to design your game well, but all games are designed around their respective controllers. Nintendo goes further and designs the very machine around the new game concepts that they cannot accomplish with the current controllers.
no they didn't design the entire system around it, they took a chance by putting R+D into the controller, but kept the system basically the same as their last one.
http://www.sublimeparadigm.com/blog/wp-images/powerglove.jpg
I see your powerglove and I raise you a U-force:
http://www.i-mockery.com/minimocks/nes/uforce1.jpg
Wii am NES gen confirmed.
MorPhiend
10-26-2007, 10:18 PM
Katamari was built upon the whole principle of analog sticks. So what? You want a bunch of games taking advantage of the dual analog setup to do something new?
I don't. I want the games to be the games, not the controllers. Katamari was fun, mind you, but it's hardly an amazing pivitol ground-breaking game that spawned its own genre.
As for Mario 64... You think Nintendo was the first to use joysticks in a 3D game? The game itself was innovative, definitely. It brought the platformer to 3D. I will definitely remember Mario 64 as one of the most innovative games of all time.
The controller? Sure, innovative. But it wasn't ZOMG THE ANALOG STICK MAKES TEH N64 GREATEST SYSTEM OF ALL TIME. And analog sticks were quickly accepted as a necessary part of a controller. Hell, PS1 1-uped them and made dual-analogs, which was another step in innovation that is now accepted as standard (kind of like having 2 buttons, six buttons, etc).Katamari was (and is) an amazingly successful game. Again,you said that nothing could be done better on analog than on keyboard/mouse. You are wrong. Mario 64 is one of the biggest game in this industry's history. The reason the N64 controller was the way it was is because Miyamoto needed it that way. I never said that people flipped over the controller, but the point is that one of the greatest/most influential games in history had the control setup as a pivotal point. And it wouldn't have been possible to move the industry forward the way Mario has with a keyboard and mouse.
It's not supposed to be a console.
The point is motion control has been done before. Nintendo was just the first people crazy enough to put it in their console (and the only people talented enough to pull it off well).
Well, of course the experience is going to be better with Wii Sports. It has more power and is being developed by people with more experience than those one-game systems.
That doesn't mean they didn't do it first.To both of you, innovation does not necessarily mean "the first". The Famicom had an online add-on in the 80's. The SFC had the Satelleview. The Dreamcast did online as well. But that does not mean that XBL is not innovative. XBL has done online well and brought it to the masses. Again, I don't typically play online. But that does not mean XBL is gimmicky. It is an innovation that has improved the gaming industry overall.
The Wiimote is the first thing of it's kind that has worked really well. And it seems with each big release it is working better and better (i.e. MP3--->MoHH2, Zelda--->Mario Galaxy). It was such a good idea and implemented so well, SONY through "Sixaxis" in their controller a week before their debut without the Wiimote being proven in sales. If anything, Sixaxis is gimmicky.
Rei no Otaku
10-26-2007, 10:21 PM
It was such a good idea and implemented so well, SONY through "Sixaxis" in their controller a week before their debut without the Wiimote being proven in sales.
And you know this how?
daroga
10-26-2007, 10:24 PM
When developers see that it's easier to port their PS2 pieces of shit to the Wii, slap on some shittily-done Wiimote controls, and they sell like hot cakes... that creates a deadly cycle -- one that has been going on for the past year.I wasn't aware there were a lot of shitty PS2 ports that were selling well on the Wii. There's certainly a lot of them but that's doesn't mean they're selling well. Eventually that'll stop happening--every sytem gets a glut of shovelware, especially early in the life of the console where few are willing to take a risk on it.
If a glut of crap games was indicative of a terrible console, every system ever released would be a terrible console.
MorPhiend
10-26-2007, 10:27 PM
Well, sure. It just seems like the title of this thread is "Will Wright said your mother is stupid... and you're ugly."
There's certainly nothing wrong with more of the same. And yet, there's nothing wrong with something new. I like them both!My feelings exactly. I actually like my PS3, although I thought I would regret the purchase originally. But there's no way I'm giving up my Wii!!!
And you know this how?The guys who did the Sixaxis demo (was it Warhawk that was first demoed?) said so in an interview a couple of days after the keynote. They said they had never heard of motion controls in the PS3 until a week or two before the keynote when SONY came and said, "Do this in your game. We want to show it off in a couple of weeks." They said it was relatively easy and quick to implement into the game too.
Dr Mario Kart
10-26-2007, 10:27 PM
It would sell better if they just ported PS2 games to the PS3/360 with higher res textures and light bloom. Kind of like....the near entirety of the next-gen library.
zerowing
10-26-2007, 10:32 PM
Why do you want more of the same? Do you want to see the same game rehashed for the next 20 years? I know I don't, but if you are content with the same game, developers will get lazy and continue to shovel out Halo 10, God of War 10, etc. You need to push innovation if you want to see a different game, the devlopers are getting lazy, sticking with a tried and true formula that won't change. The Wii is a shake up in the industry, it will teach developers to think differently, outside the box, similar to what Will Wright did in his early years.
zewone
10-26-2007, 10:34 PM
Why do you want more of the same? Do you want to see the same game rehashed for the next 20 years? I know I don't, but if you are content with the same game, developers will get lazy and continue to shovel out Halo 10, God of War 10, etc. You need to push innovation if you want to see a different game, the devlopers are getting lazy, sticking with a tried and true formula that won't change. The Wii is a shake up in the industry, it will teach developers to think differently, outside the box, similar to what Will Wright did in his early years.
How do you figure?
All of the Wii's "best" games are sequels?
Dr Mario Kart
10-26-2007, 10:35 PM
Hey now. I like more of the same plenty. I just get that fix by playing old stuff.
If you like the cookies, cookie cutters can be just fine.
PyroGamer
10-26-2007, 10:35 PM
The guys who did the Sixaxis demo (was it Warhawk that was first demoed?) said so in an interview a couple of days after the keynote.Sorry if I don't remember when the people on the WARHAWK team revealed that the people from SONY simply tacked on motion control because they heard Nintendo was doing it and thought it was just too brilliant of an idea to pass up.
Apossum
10-26-2007, 10:48 PM
If you like the cookies, cookie cutters can be just fine.
that....doesn't make any sense dmk :lol:
Why do you want more of the same? Do you want to see the same game rehashed for the next 20 years? I know I don't, but if you are content with the same game, developers will get lazy and continue to shovel out Halo 10, God of War 10, etc. You need to push innovation if you want to see a different game, the devlopers are getting lazy, sticking with a tried and true formula that won't change. The Wii is a shake up in the industry, it will teach developers to think differently, outside the box, similar to what Will Wright did in his early years.
unfortunately, the Wii will never have a game with a complex fighting system like God of War, unless you use a regular controller. There also won't be a definitive, well-balanced, multi-player FPS like Halo on it.
daroga
10-26-2007, 10:51 PM
There also won't be a definitive, well-balanced, multi-player FPS like Halo on it.How do you figure?
The Crotch
10-26-2007, 10:54 PM
unfortunately, the Wii will never have a game with a complex fighting system like God of War, unless you use a regular controller. There also won't be a definitive, well-balanced, multi-player FPS like Halo on it.Not going to argue about the God of War bit (hurry up and get some 1:1, developers, but what's this about not being able to get a Halo-quality FPS? What specifically about the Wii makes it unable to have something like that?
Edit: You're a jerk, Daroga. I totally could have beat you to the punch if I'd just written less. But you can make it up by buying Fire Emblem...
MorPhiend
10-26-2007, 10:54 PM
Sorry if I don't remember when the people on the WARHAWK team revealed that the people from SONY simply tacked on motion control because they heard Nintendo was doing it and thought it was just too brilliant of an idea to pass up.What the hell is the matter with you? You bicker and piss and moan like a freakin' two year old. Get over yourself. Relax. I wasn't even talking to you. Someone else asked a question and I answered them and you reply like I'm attacking you.
You can't even use sound reason, make blatant overgeneralizations and then when someone speaks reason or gives you good examples you ignore what you originally posted that was replied to and make new comments heading in a new direction that has nothing to do with your original remark.
Okay. We get it. You don't like the Wii controls. This means they are gimmicky. This means no one else should like them except moms and grandmas. You are 100% right. 13.- some-odd million consumers are 100% wrong.
And now that I'm on your bad list, I'll try to remember not to make comments in threads you have been in. Because apparently I'm not allowed to make helpful explanations/clarifications to others. Because if I do, I am attacking you and you will take it personally. Sorry I did not realize the universe revolves around you and your lack of logic...
Will Wright was trying to make a point about what Nintendo has achieved. He did it in a way you did not agree with, but along the way made some great, very valid points about the direction the competition has headed. Don't take it too seriously, get over yourself and get out and get some sunlight once in a while. As for me, I have a party to get to...
How do you figure?And that's the bottom line, 'Cause Apossum said so!
That's how these Anti-Wii "Pundits" function, Daroga. No matter how many good games come out, they will never give it a hint of credit.
daroga
10-26-2007, 10:58 PM
That's how these Anti-Wii "Pundits" function, Daroga. No matter how many good games come out, they will never give it a hint of credit.Eh, that's alright. If people want to miss out on the quality games on the Wii, it's their loss. Much like it's my loss for missing some quality PS3 games cause I don't have one.
It's quite funny to hear people refer to him as idiotic or senile,the guy has had some of the most successful franchises in videogame history,whatever or not you like him or not his opionion does have some value.I don't wanna hear is illrelevant now because he has one of the most anticipated games of all time coming out soon.
SlimJim0725
10-26-2007, 11:08 PM
http://us.i1.yimg.com/videogames.yahoo.com/feature/special-vest-lets-players-feel-video-game-blows/534921
Enough said with this. This will make the 360 interactive too since you will feel yourself getting shot. This is a great idea (I think better than the Wii Remote) since that is only fun with a few games IMO. I got bored of the Wii extremely quick and I can't stand going without my 360 right now.
daroga
10-26-2007, 11:11 PM
http://us.i1.yimg.com/videogames.yahoo.com/feature/special-vest-lets-players-feel-video-game-blows/534921
Enough said with this. This will make the 360 interactive too since you will feel yourself getting shot. This is a great idea (I think better than the Wii Remote) since that is only fun with a few games IMO. I got bored of the Wii extremely quick and I can't stand going without my 360 right now.Please tell me this is sarcasm. Please.
The Crotch
10-26-2007, 11:11 PM
Yeah, peripherals! Those have the greatest track record!
PyroGamer
10-26-2007, 11:14 PM
What the hell is the matter with you? You bicker and piss and moan like a freakin' two year old. Get over yourself. Relax. I wasn't even talking to you. Someone else asked a question and I answered themWhoa. That came out of nowhere....and you reply like I'm attacking you.
Sweet irony.
Okay. We get it. You don't like the Wii controls. This means they are gimmicky. This means no one else should like them except moms and grandmas. You are 100% right. 13.- some-odd million consumers are 100% wrong.
Amazing. I don't recall saying once that I didn't like the Wii controlls. As a matter of fact, I'm 100% positive I never said that, because that wouldn't be true.
You know what. At first I thought I was having a rational discussion. Thank you for that "what the hell is wrong with you?" explosion, because it took that to make me realize you're absolutely crazy.
And now that I'm on your bad list, I'll try to remember not to make comments in threads you have been in. Because apparently I'm not allowed to make helpful explanations/clarifications to others. Because if I do, I am attacking you and you will take it personally. Sorry I did not realize the universe revolves around you and your lack of logic...Jesus Christ, brother, I make a tiny critisicm of your claim that PS3 tacked on motion control because they were ZOMG amazed at Nintendo's brilliant idea, and you fucking explode at me with this "what the hell is wrong with you?" shit.
To quote the always inimitable 90's: take a chill pill.
daroga
10-26-2007, 11:17 PM
Everyone on CAG seems to be in a fightin' mood tonight. ;)
The Crotch
10-26-2007, 11:19 PM
You'll eat those words, Daroga!
They will taste like FIRE EMBLEM TEN!
Dr Mario Kart
10-26-2007, 11:20 PM
Looks like its time for joke posts:
http://www.pbfcomics.com/archive/PBF055AD-Game_System.jpg
daroga
10-26-2007, 11:21 PM
Shush.
Don't make me slap you.
PyroGamer
10-26-2007, 11:23 PM
I like how the kid is playing on an old tube CRT set with that get-up. xD
Ah, PBF.
The Crotch
10-26-2007, 11:27 PM
Mmm. I was threatening to put the Mario PBF cartoon up in the Galaxy thread, but as I explained there, it's a little on the depressing side.
Also, I think that kid's TV was better than mine.
PyroGamer
10-26-2007, 11:30 PM
Mmm. I was threatening to put the Mario PBF cartoon up in the Galaxy thread, but as I explained there, it's a little on the depressing side.
I always feel so bad for Luigi.
Puffa469
10-26-2007, 11:42 PM
that....doesn't make any sense dmk :lol:
I think he means that if you like something, then more of the same of that thing is fine.
To further his cookie analogy;
I like Oreos.
Nabisco tried to innovate, they made double stuff oreos, mint oreos, chocolate cream oreos, peanut butter oreos, golden oreos, white chocolate covered oreos, etc.
But I still like regular old oreos the best.
Damn, now I want a cookie!
daroga
10-26-2007, 11:43 PM
Fudge-covered oreos.
:drool:
PyroGamer
10-26-2007, 11:56 PM
Mint Oreos pwn.
Liquid 2
10-27-2007, 12:04 AM
If that's what you call innovation, than sign me up for more of the same.
:applause:
Super agreed.
How do you figure?
Because you need intuitive, cerebral controls.
VanillaGorilla
10-27-2007, 12:32 AM
True enough. The Wii is something new while the 360 and PS3 are more of the same.
Yes, because I totally couldn't play Radica TV Baseball for $8.99 at Wal Mart like, 7 years ago.
Motion controls are not new, Nintendo did not invent them.
The Crotch
10-27-2007, 12:44 AM
Because you need intuitive, cerebral controls.That doesn't really answer Daroga's question...
daroga
10-27-2007, 12:51 AM
Yes, because I totally couldn't play Radica TV Baseball for $8.99 at Wal Mart like, 7 years ago.
Motion controls are not new, Nintendo did not invent them.Sometimes innovation is in the execution, not the concept. You know, like Microsoft's innovations with Xbox Live.
MarioColbert
10-27-2007, 02:11 AM
The Crotch: I should have borrow your tactics for Z&W promotion.
Might be a good thing I didn't because it's suffering from Wii-like shortages, apparently...
Daroga owned this thread bad.
And Pyro: Don't be so upset at obviously stupid things that people say. A blanket statement is a blanket statement, and it should be dismissed.
That doesn't really answer Daroga's question...
Sweet.
The Crotch
10-27-2007, 02:16 AM
Sweet.Isn't it, though?
Colbert: I'm thinking I should have used some of Davis' tactics for Fire Emblem promotion. But since the official thread belongs to someone else, I didn't feel like it was my place. And now it's almost too late!
I will say one thing against FE 10, though: I'm already 95% sure how it's going to play out thanks to the god damn retarded decisions of a few key characters towards the end of FE 9.
The Crotch
10-27-2007, 02:19 AM
No....
So no hugs tiem for me?
...
So no hugs tiem for me?
I don't have arms.
The Crotch
10-27-2007, 02:28 AM
I don't have arms.Let that be a lesson: next time, just let King Arthur cross the fucking river.
MarioColbert
10-27-2007, 02:45 AM
Let that be a lesson: next time, just let King Arthur cross the fucking river.
GENIUS.
MorPhiend
10-27-2007, 03:23 AM
Whoa. That came out of nowhere....
No it didn't. You make a thread that is possibly flame bait. The people who disagree with you don't take the bait, but instead try to engage people in rational discussion. Your main point seems to be that control schemes are not innovative, only games themselves are. DMK mentions the analog stick. Someone else mentions MP3, a game that really offers nothing new over it's two predecessors, yet is still a breath of fresh air and highly acclaimed for it's control scheme. You ignore these points and are determined to press your opinion and make a BLANKET STATEMENT that analog has never done anything that keyboard and mouse has done, and better. This is unquestioningly a blatantly, crazy over generalization that could never be supported. This is where I finally come in and make a short comment to challenge your crazy statement. Off the top of my head I give Mario 64 and Katamari as two examples that could not have been pulled off with a keyboard and mouse.
You then quote me, severing my point that Nintendo's new controller is successful and throw in a few bullet points that make no sense. If the only positive thing about Wii was $250 and the controls weren't good and games weren't enjoyable, it wouldn't be selling. $250 is not why Wii is selling (most people thought $250 was way overpriced when it was announced and no one had played it). Mario is not why over 13 million Wii have been sold in less than 11 months. You do realize Mario has yet to launch in any region, no? And I think I have beat the gimmicky controller "point" to death. Considering there is one first-person adventure/shooter game out that has revolutionized FPS controls and another third party game in the hands of reviewers right now that even improves on that, all less than a year after the launch (among other innovative controls for other genres), I'd say it's time to put to rest the "gimmicky" complaints. You don't like it. Fine. That's your choice. It does not make the opinion truth.
Then you quote my specific examples that discount your broad over generalization and call specific examples blanket statements. Mind blown. I still don't understand how you continue to think specific examples are blanket statements.
Then you spew some mumbo jumbo about Katamari not being the game, but the analog sticks being the game and how you want games to be games. And you say that the analog stick had no bearing on Mario 64's success because analog sticks existed before Mario 64 and they didn't do well.
Then you go and quote me explaining something to someone else who had a question starting off something like, "Well, sorry if I don't remember blah blah blah..." As if I had explained that comment and called you dumb for not remembering it.
To sum up, you ignore good points, make comments that don't pertain directly to the situation, make over-generalizations and then accuse others of doing so when they make specific examples to dispell you generalizations. Then you butt in on someone's discussion in a manner that sounds like they were attacking you personally when they weren't even talking to you. That irks me a bit and so I make a comment that uses the word "hell" *gasp* and say you're acting immature and that you need to calm down. So now you respond saying that I'm blowing up and you quote "hell" twice in one post as if I am evil for having said that word, all while you throw a couple of dirty expletives at me and use the Lord's name in vain (which I really do not appreciate). And you say I am ironic? Boy, you are imbalanced, aren't you? Either way, I do know you're as annoying as H*..... Oh, I better not say that word. You'll flip out again.
And Pyro: Don't be so upset at obviously stupid things that people say. A blanket statement is a blanket statement, and it should be dismissed.So, did you read the thread? You obviously saw his comment that I had made a "blanket statement", but you also obviously read the posts leading up to that. He is the one who made the blanket statement that analog has never done anything a keyboard and mouse hasn't done. What I did was give two specific examples of why that is not true. Somehow he thinks specific examples are blanket statements. You read that and you believed that.
Did I miss the announcement that the website was changing to Dumb Ass Gamer or something?
Thomas96
10-27-2007, 04:25 AM
I think Will Wright is wrong... this video game industry isn't about him, its about us the consumers and what we like. Why diss the fans that he has on the 360 and PS3 fronts. How about encouraging people to play games on all fronts, if the Wii is expanding the demographic that's fine, but don't crap on 360 and PS3 for appealing to the fans that got Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft where they are now (video games speaking) During the article.. he talks as if he wants to be the video game industry ambassador, and then later on he turns into a damn Wii fanboy.
Tybee
10-27-2007, 03:46 PM
How do you figure?
All of the Wii's "best" games are sequels?
And Wii Sports, Elebits, and Zack & Wiki are sequels to what, exactly?
Redeema
10-27-2007, 04:28 PM
Don't blame the system for not having the most innovative games when it's clear that the third parties had no faith in Nintendo and now that the Wii is an unmitigated success they're rushing to get anything they can get out onto the system whether it's good or bad. I seem to recall Gun, Madden, and some other games on the Xbox 360 at launch.
And for the person who said that the Wii's only good games were basically GameCube games. What does that say about the Xbox 360? Kameo = N64, Perfect Dark Zero = N64, Too Human = N64. There's probably more and there's probably some PS3 examples as well, but none that I can think of off the top of my head.
Again, I like all systems equally. Maybe these comments are being taken way to seriously. I do think that to dismiss the Wii for being "too gimmicky" is not having foresight to see that the system has incredible potential that you will begin to see and the second generation of software that began with Metroid Prime 3 will continue to make this the one system that advances the industry beyond just a niche crowd. Something that the PS2 did a great job with, but the Wii seems like will finally break through to show and prove that games aren't just for kids and they're not murdering simulators, either.
Reality's Fringe
10-27-2007, 04:56 PM
So, Spore's coming to the Wii then? Sweet.
VanillaGorilla
10-27-2007, 05:18 PM
And for the person who said that the Wii's only good games were basically GameCube games. What does that say about the Xbox 360? Kameo = N64, Perfect Dark Zero = N64, Too Human = N64. There's probably more and there's probably some PS3 examples as well, but none that I can think of off the top of my head.
That is possibly some of the dumbest logic I've ever seen. When people say Wii games are "basically GameCube games", they are talking about the graphics. Are you going to tell me that Perfect Dark Zero looks like Perfect Dark for the N64?
The Crotch
10-27-2007, 05:27 PM
That is possibly some of the dumbest logic I've ever seen. When people say Wii games are "basically GameCube games", they are talking about the graphics. Are you going to tell me that Perfect Dark Zero looks like Perfect Dark for the N64?Huh? When people have said that Wii games are more-or-less GC games, I've always took that to mean that they started their life on the GC (Like Twilight Princess, Paper Mario, and Fire Emblem).
VanillaGorilla
10-27-2007, 05:33 PM
Huh? When people have said that Wii games are more-or-less GC games, I've always took that to mean that they started their life on the GC (Like Twilight Princess, Paper Mario, and Fire Emblem).That's dumb then. Who gives a crap where a game started?
PyroGamer
10-27-2007, 05:46 PM
And for the person who said that the Wii's only good games were basically GameCube games. What does that say about the Xbox 360? Kameo = N64, Perfect Dark Zero = N64, Too Human = N64.
Because whenever anyone asks "what are the top three best titles on the 360?" we all think "Kameo, PDZ, and Too Human" first :roll:
That is possibly some of the dumbest logic I've ever seen. When people say Wii games are "basically GameCube games", they are talking about the graphics.
No, they're talking about them being gamecube ports with tacked-on motion control. Kind of like was recently used to be the Wii's top two titles: Twilight Princess and Paper Mario. Both delayed after being ready for Gamecube release, and given the slight makover to fill in the huge gaps in the Wii's library.
They did a decent job holding us over for the good games that are finally just coming out recently, but they were, quite simply, Gamecube games quickly ported to the Wii.
Considering there is one first-person adventure/shooter game out that has revolutionized FPS controls.Oh, dear, a revolution, eh? Funny how the top-rated shooters of the past year have all used the same flawed dual-analog control, and the top upcoming shooters are poised to continue the trend. I can sure feel the revolution. A half-dozen mario titles and NES-based franchises. Can you feel the revolution?
So, did you read the thread? You obviously saw his comment that I had made a "blanket statement"
Go see if your local night-college offers reading comprehension classes. You told me that because of your miniscule example of something that didn't strictly follow my general point, that my general point was invalid. I've never been about making blanket statements, all my statements are assumed to have a couple exeptions here and there. You were acting like the only statement worth listening to was one that had no exeptions whatsoever to nitpick over.
To sum up, you ignore good points, make comments that don't pertain directly to the situation, make over-generalizations and then accuse others of doing so when they make specific examples to dispell you generalizations.
Try reading what I actually wrote. I didn't once accuse you of making generalizations. I was simply saying my points still stand despite the miniscule exceptions you brought up to them. My statements are not blanket statements, there will be an exception to the rule here and there. And for the record you have made some goodpoints, but unfortunately it's hard to hear them for the explosions of personal attacks you unloaded, completely derailing the discussion.
all while you throw a couple of dirty expletives at me and use the Lord's name in vain (which I really do not appreciate). And you say I am ironic? Boy, you are imbalanced, aren't you? Either way, I do know you're as annoying as H*..... Oh, I better not say that word. You'll flip out again.OH MY GOD, OH MY GOD, OH MY GOD!!!! Sweet mother of Christ I'm so sorry I've offended you! You explode at me with this "what the hell is wrong with you" shit and you expect me to just turn the other fucking cheek? Well unfortunately I'm not Jesus Motherfucking Christ... even he kicked the moneychanger's ass's when they pulled shit. If you're such a religious person, how about try not treating people like shit? Hell, might get you kudos with the big man.
This entire conversation was about discussing each others points and having a rational conversation until you start your bullshit with the person attacks.
After that "what the hell is wrong with you?" crap you pulled I have no good reason to keep discussing anything with you. At first I thought I could have a rational discussion with you, but it's quite clear you're an over-reactionary spazoid jerk. If you can't recognize how uncalled for that bullshit you pulled was and apologize for it, you can bite me.
hufferstl
10-27-2007, 06:12 PM
Here is a link to an article that I believe MorPhiend is talking about. It basically says that the warhawk developers had a week to code the motion control, but that they MIGHT have known that it was coming for longer than that. At the time of the demo, most VG websites all said that the motion controls were a last minute add-on to compete with Wii.
Hope this helps
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060705-7191.html
And you know this how?
Originally Posted by MorPhiend
It was such a good idea and implemented so well, SONY through "Sixaxis" in their controller a week before their debut without the Wiimote being proven in sales.
Chacrana
10-27-2007, 06:21 PM
Eh, whatever. I've always thought Wright was a hack so I don't put much stock anything he says anyway.
But then, I think Spore looks stupid and uninteresting anyway, so what do I know? All I want to do anymore is kill things and yell "Objection."
Redeema
10-27-2007, 07:51 PM
I wasn't stating that those were the best Xbox 360 games similar to how Super Paper Mario and Zelda Twilight Princess won't be the best Wii games. Great games? Yes. The best on the system when it's all said and done? No, not by any means.
Oh, and Perfect Dark and Kameo will both get sequels, whether you like it or not. Maybe they can innovate instead of renovate.
Lastly, Too Human is one of those games that everyone has been hyping over the past two years. It's got to be up there among the most hyped 360 games to date. So, yeah, I'd say some people might point to it as a great game, whether it's justified or not.
What I'm hearing from this thread boils down to:
Whiny Gamers: "We say we want better games, but we're going to bitch and complain about every genuine change to the status quo. So what we're really getting at is that we want to be told that the types of games we're already playing are awesome. This, of course, is because we're insecure with our hobby or our spending decisions, so we need constant reassurance about them. And may god have mercy on your soul if you suggest that doing the exact same thing we've been doing for thirty years isn't acceptable to do for another thirty."
Christ, I can imagine what dating must be like for some of you fuckers: you tell a girl you want to be intimate with her, but really, all you want to do is go home and jerk off.
Yes, because I totally couldn't play Radica TV Baseball for $8.99 at Wal Mart like, 7 years ago.
Motion controls are not new, Nintendo did not invent them.
The airplane wasn't innovative. The Wright brothers didn't invent wings. Birds had them, like, years before that.
No, they're talking about them being gamecube ports with tacked-on motion control. Kind of like was recently used to be the Wii's top two titles: Twilight Princess and Paper Mario. Both delayed after being ready for Gamecube release, and given the slight makover to fill in the huge gaps in the Wii's library.
They did a decent job holding us over for the good games that are finally just coming out recently, but they were, quite simply, Gamecube games quickly ported to the Wii.
Who cares where a game started? If God of War III is revealed to have started life on the PS2, does it no longer count as a "real" release? Hell, let's face facts: aside from improved graphics (and probably some unnecessary SIXAXIS when you tear a minotaur's head off), what are the odds you'll even be able to tell is ISN'T a PS2 game?
MarioColbert
10-27-2007, 10:23 PM
So, did you read the thread? You obviously saw his comment that I had made a "blanket statement", but you also obviously read the posts leading up to that. He is the one who made the blanket statement that analog has never done anything a keyboard and mouse hasn't done. What I did was give two specific examples of why that is not true. Somehow he thinks specific examples are blanket statements. You read that and you believed that.
Did I miss the announcement that the website was changing to Dumb Ass Gamer or something?
A dumb ass I may certainly be, but side with Pyro I did not. I did read some of the thread, but I didn't get into the big fight that you and Pyro are having, apparently. My mention of a blanket statement referred to Will Wright's statement in the OP.
I wholeheartedly agree with Will Wright about what he said, and the Wii is the only system in my home for at least another year. However, my own bullshit opinion is nowhere near enough arrogant to warrant the sentiment that the Wii is the ultimate answer to everything, or that other consoles are somehow uncapable of being spectacular gaming machines. Especially in light of technical progress that both XBOX360 and PS3 bring to the table.
I'll leave it to you to debate the "absolute importance" of hardware versus games, since I want no part in this discusison. I would appreciate if you didn't interpret me adressing Pyro as an immediate attack against your statements, since the topic is Will Wright, and not your debate.
itachiitachi
10-28-2007, 10:41 AM
I think he is defining next gen as system that can play game types that the previous generation couldn’t
Atari nes- pretty much 2d side scroller adventure RPG ect….
Snes genesis – much better looking 2d games but many could probable still have been done on the nes with crap graphics, but some 3d games star fox pilot wings Mario kart that there was no way the nes could have done
N64 Saturn play station- 3d games galore (golden eye, Mario 64, twisted metal ect...) that could not have been handled by the last gen even with tuned down graphics
GC PS2 X-box – 3d games with great graphics, many could have been done on the last gen using worse graphics. But still some games (halo, gta3, re4) that could not have been done on the last gen
PS3 360- better graphics but every thing could be done on the last gen with worse graphics
Wii - slightly better graphics and waggle. All of the games could have been done last gen but waggle allows for new categories of games to be fun that would be boring with a normal controller (Wii sports, mini games, mercury meltdown) and ads to the experience of other (re4, MP3 , madden)
So while so people say Wii is a GC with waggle tacked on he is saying ps3/360 are ps2/x-box with pretty graphics tacked on.
And the next gen while all the systems will look nicer there will probably be a focus on getting motion controls near as 1:1 as possible rather than power.
Nephlabobo
10-28-2007, 11:04 AM
I'd care more about what Wil Wright says if he actually made games.
Sims is *not* a game.
msdmoney
10-28-2007, 03:57 PM
I'd care more about what Wil Wright says if he actually made games.
Sims is *not* a game.
It's not, why? Please define for us what a game is, and how The Sims doesn't meet this requirement. And also, while you're at it, include Sim City.
daroga
10-28-2007, 04:34 PM
I'd care more about what Wil Wright says if he actually made games.
Sims is *not* a game.Wow.
It's one thing to not like the games he makes. It's another thing entirely to say something like this. SimCity's not a game, eh? I guess I should've known that before I spent countless hours playing many versions the game.
The Crotch
10-28-2007, 04:42 PM
Oh, hush up Daroga. I hereby declare that Calvinball is the only next-gen console, and the only real videogame is Skittles (unfortunately, it's only available for the last-gen console known as the "Metal Gear Solid").
gamegal
10-28-2007, 05:13 PM
I'd care more about what Wil Wright says if he actually made games.
Sims is *not* a game.
The Simcity is a Simulator VG and was originally made as a system for a city like take New Orleans if it ever fell to natural disasters. In this case the Simcity program was not used.
Simcity is simular to the EarthSimulator in Japan that rpedicts weather or the Army bob simulator that shows how a captured soilder should escape if they were captured.
The Sims is a life simulator. You can take your own apsirations and recreate your own place and watch your life simulating before your eyes.
I think he is defining next gen as system that can play game types that the previous generation couldn’t
If so then he has never heard of emulation.
A generation is five to ten years or the age when people can relate or even stand side by side. Generally from age 12 to 25 for most people. Some people who was out of the loop of things is unable to indentify with certain things and will sound nuts to other people.
itachiitachi
10-28-2007, 05:48 PM
If so then he has never heard of emulation.
.
???? explain
MarioColbert
10-28-2007, 06:13 PM
There isn't a verifiable solid argument regarding this moronic cretieria for "innovation" vs. "no innovation at all." The point is, video games consist of audio-visual component that can be controlled by an input sceme of some sort. If you break it down to this basic functionality, ALL video games build on the same idea - 3D or 2D, they achieve the very same point at the end.
But the reason why the above is so utterly ridiculous, is because games aren't enjoyed as an abstract concept - we like specifics, details, and other aspects of video game design. And yes, all components of a video game have evolved in some way over the years. There is a direct relationship between all said components - including the control scheme.
All books consist of (usually) black letters on (usually) white pages that are (usually) bound together. The fact that some books have pictures and others don't does not in any way diminish the validity of either, although Will Wright is certainly welcome to tell everyone that he only reads ones without pictures. I don't understand the argument past this point, though. Pyro's point that games are more important than control schemes is a perfectly valid opinion, and I do not understand why anyone chooses to argue with him, period. I've read his posts carefully, and although he may come across as diminishing the importance of new controllers to an extent, he most certainly agrees with the fact that "computing power" contribution of Microsoft's and Sony platforms brings something new to the table. And especially since he seems upset at what Will Wright said, it makes perfect sense that he would focus more on things Wright didn't talk about.
Apart from that, it's a circular argument of opinion as to what is more important that is more than likely driven by individual's tastes in games. And the truth is - not everyone likes to wave a stick around, and not everyone would like games like Zack & Wiki. To each their own, just leave each other alone, for god's sake.
Bottom line: Don't be a Jehova's Witness with your video game bullshit.
And as far as GAME DESIGN is concerned, Wright is one of very developers that actually designs game mechanics. While his games are little more than Excel spreadsheets with a bunch of states, he does what he does extremely well, and his games are games in the most classical sense of the word - it's something you PLAY, not beat.
There isn't a verifiable solid argument regarding this moronic cretieria for "innovation" vs. "no innovation at all." The point is, video games consist of audio-visual component that can be controlled by an input sceme of some sort. If you break it down to this basic functionality, ALL video games build on the same idea - 3D or 2D, they achieve the very same point at the end.
But the reason why the above is so utterly ridiculous, is because games aren't enjoyed as an abstract concept - we like specifics, details, and other aspects of video game design. And yes, all components of a video game have evolved in some way over the years. There is a direct relationship between all said components - including the control scheme.
All books consist of (usually) black letters on (usually) white pages that are (usually) bound together. The fact that some books have pictures and others don't does not in any way diminish the validity of either, although Will Wright is certainly welcome to tell everyone that he only reads ones without pictures. I don't understand the argument past this point, though. Pyro's point that games are more important than control schemes is a perfectly valid opinion, and I do not understand why anyone chooses to argue with him, period. I've read his posts carefully, and although he may come across as diminishing the importance of new controllers to an extent, he most certainly agrees with the fact that "computing power" contribution of Microsoft's and Sony platforms brings something new to the table. And especially since he seems upset at what Will Wright said, it makes perfect sense that he would focus more on things Wright didn't talk about.
Apart from that, it's a circular argument of opinion as to what is more important that is more than likely driven by individual's tastes in games. And the truth is - not everyone likes to wave a stick around, and not everyone would like games like Zack & Wiki. To each their own, just leave each other alone, for god's sake.
Bottom line: Don't be a Jehova's Witness with your video game bullshit.
And as far as GAME DESIGN is concerned, Wright is one of very developers that actually designs game mechanics. While his games are little more than Excel spreadsheets with a bunch of states, he does what he does extremely well, and his games are games in the most classical sense of the word - it's something you PLAY, not beat.
*Nods sagely, stroking chin*
Very wise.