CAGcast #98: Penny Arcade Sucks

[CheapyD]

This week, we focus on Mass Effect, Uncharted, Assassins Creed (and its accompanying IGN vs Penny Arcade feud) along with the latest video game news, your CAGbag (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71382) questions, and so much more!

Win COD4 & PGR 4! (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161460)
Win WWE (360, PS3, Wii) from UGO and the CAGcast! (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161459)
CAGcast Theme Song Contest! Win $100 CASH! (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155483)

Contra 4 Winners: hcamacho, kaw, draqonwizard, _Sin_


http://media.libsyn.com/media/cheapyd/cagcast98.mp3
Download (http://media.libsyn.com/media/cheapyd/cagcast98.mp3) - 114 minutes, 52MB
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Past CAGcasts (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/../archives/cat_cagcast.php)



Show Linkage/Notes (click the button below to expand):

Intro by Adam

Black Friday Article at Gamedaily (http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/galleries/top-10-black-friday-deals-for-gamers/103/)
CheapyD's Black Friday Gaming Super Show of Savings (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160608)
CAGcast Nominated for GTR Xbox Community Awards Podcast of the Year - Vote/Win! (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161305)

Marriage trouble? Or am I overreacting? (spooge) (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160888)

Club Nintendo - vinyl Wiimote holder (http://gonintendo.com/?p=30474)
Everybody's Nintendo' Wii channel launches in Japan, offers videos and DS demo downloads (http://feeds.joystiq.com/%7Er/weblogsinc/joystiq/%7E3/191216219/)
Wii Sees Second Best Sales Week Since Launch (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/50090)

New PSP battery doubles your pleasure, doubles your fun (http://feeds.feedburner.com/%7Er/Destructoid/%7E3/191857099/new-psp-battery-doubles-your-pleasure-doubles-your-fun-56344.phtml)

IGN vs Penny Arcade (http://www.destructoid.com/penny-arcade-ign-enter-verbal-kumite-provide-idiotic-filler-for-ol-nexy-56405.phtml)
Xbox Japan Dishes Fall 360 Update Details (http://feeds.gawker.com/%7Er/kotaku/full/%7E3/191569347/xbox-japan-dishes-fall-360-update-details-327191.php)

Romantics Sue Activision Over Guitar Hero 80's Edition (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160530&highlight=romantics)
Shame behind Guitar Hero success.
(http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160987)Pachter Predicts Pair Of Guitar Hero Expansions In 2008 (http://feeds.gawker.com/%7Er/kotaku/full/%7E3/191639070/pachter-predicts-pair-of-guitar-hero-expansions-in-2008-327228.php)
Rumor: New Leisure Suit Larry game coming (http://feeds.feedburner.com/%7Er/Destructoid/%7E3/191913474/rumor-new-leisure-suit-larry-game-coming-56373.phtml)

Digg the CAGcast (http://www.digg.com/podcasts/CAGcast)
Digg CAG Foreplay (http://www.digg.com/podcasts/CAG_Foreplay)
MySpace (http://www.myspace.com/cagcast)
CheapyD's Youtube Videos (http://www.youtube.com/cheapyd) (Subscribe (http://www.youtube.com/subscription_center?add_user=CheapyD))
CheapyD's Flickr Page (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cheapyd/) (Subscribe (http://www.flickr.com/people/cheapyd/relationship/))

Outro: Megaforce (Atari 2600) (http://gameads.gamepressure.com/tv_game_commercial.asp?ID=6799)
Outro 2: CheapyD's Black Friday Gaming Super Show of Savings (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160608)

[Quintessence]

It is not downloading for me on iTunes. I will try some other ways...OK, so the media player here works fine.

[wizardofcoz4126]

The links are not working for me either

[jollydwarf]

Haven't listened to a second of it, and I already love it, based on the title alone.

(If that's a 'cheeky', jokey, playful "sucks", then I retract this post.)

[CheapyD]

It is not downloading for me on iTunes. I will try some other ways...OK, so the media player here works fine.
try itunes again. should work now. try hitting rfresh, please.

[MSUHitman]

Yes Itunes is working now, thanks Cheapy!

[JohnnyDrama]

Somehow it's not downloading for me on iTunes, but I can listen to it in the OP

[yukine]

Awesome, about damn time!

[Quintessence]

Somehow it's not downloading for me on iTunes, but I can listen to it in the OP

Same for me. It is not even showing up in the episode directory there. Oh well, OP is fine for listening too, except if I forget about it and close the tab!

[4dSwissCheese]

Not working for me off of the RSS feed.

Edit: Works fine now.

[A Happy Panda]

OMGAH. The link is dead. Noooooooooooooooooo!

[Jim Jim]

Whoa, i havent even started listening yet, and i already know this is going to be a controversial Cagcast.

[T3kN]

lol, sweet. More drama.

[Richlough]

Houston we have a problem .

I can't get it to download .

[MikeydCT]

This is going to be my first time listening.

[_Sin_]

/faint


Thank you Cheapy and Wombat. I listen all the time, I love you guys!

[Slayzz]

I finally got it to download from this link. http://feeds.feedburner.com/cagcast

[A Happy Panda]

I finally got it to download from this link. http://feeds.feedburner.com/cagcast

You sir. Lie like a rug.

[CheapyD]

Yeah, Libsyn (our host) is being flakey again. Please keep trying and I'll look into it.

[Quintessence]

iTunes if fine now for me.

[yukine]

I downloaded it like an hour ago, the linked work then.

[A Happy Panda]

Link worked finally for me. Seems to be off and on.

[thorbahn3]

http://www.ebgames.com/common/images/lbox/281816b.jpg

http://www.ebgames.com/product.asp?product_id=281816
Only $19.99

[swerv]

Thanks for another great CAGcast.

[daft07]

still not working from your website or itunes. i'll wait till tomorrow afternoon.

[hcamacho]

Dowloading right now from the RSS feed, is the only downloadable link working for me........I can't believe I won the Contra DS game, yeah!!!!

[digbery]

its not working for me on itunes

[yukine]

It'd be nice if you could get either Tycho or Gabe on the show... you're pretty good friends with them, right Cheapy?

[Joniboy4844]

Not working For me Either, i tried various different ways to download and no joy, i got a journey to take and was hoping to listen to this to make it enjoyable please get it working, Please Please Please.
Regards Jon.

P.S. for the compitions that Cheapy and Wombat run from time to time, are UK entries Valid?

[io]

(Downloaded from the link in the OP no problem an hour ago or so, already listened to most of it)

Hmmm... I'm on the fence now (thanks to you Cheapy) about my still-sealed copy of Mass Effect. I really liked KOTOR (including the combat) and ME sounds like it goes away from the RPG elements I liked from that and more into an action-shooter type game (which is much less interesting to me).

On a somewhat related note, I couldn't help but notice that you put down the "best reviewed game ever" aspect of Mario Galaxy by saying it was good for a platformer like that was some sort of inferior genre (implying that no way could a platformer be the best game ever). Now, fine if you don't like platformers, but there are some of us out there bored to tears by shooters and prefer platformers. That's why, to me, I can't see how Bioshock or Mass Effect could possibly be Game of the Year. Shooters lose 3-5 points automatically in my internal scoring system ;). (FWIW, I certainly wouldn't say Mario Galaxy is the best game ever - personally I don't have one).

As for the whole "Super Frank Galaxy" deal, I think you are missing the mark there. Yes, it scores higher because it is Mario, but the Mario essence is a big part of the game. It is more than the character models, it is the atmosphere and feel of the game as well. Anyway, I'm making less and less sense the more I type. My newborn is now 5 days old ;).

[Ivanhoe]

not working :(

[Ivanhoe]

Its working on Myspace!
http://www.myspace.com/cagcast

[liquidcross]

Not working on iTunes as of 8:50 AM EST. Cheapy, go rage upon Libsyn!

[aerotive]

Kudos for mentioning Starglight, that was a great game. I must've spent 200 hours one summer playing it. Mass Effect is very much a spiritual successor to it.

Regarding the copy-protection wheel you also had to be very careful about game saves--if you saved on the original floppies you could easily render the game unplayable.

[youruglyclone]

itunes is still down...

I'm with wombat....there was a black friday live show?

[FriskyTanuki]

The SMG review news is old news. It stopped being #1 on GameRankings a week ago or so. The thing about their collection of reviews is that before the PS1 or so, they don't really have much in the way of reviews for games on the systems before that. What you're most likely to find are retro reviews that aren't much of a representation of the reviews of that time. SMG's just the #2 best-rated game on their site.

It's nice to see Cheapy giving Uncharted more credit than calling it Dude Raider.

Edit: I can't say that the early Rock Band DLC is a bad thing. They've been outspoken that they want to put out DLC every week, and they have to start from day one or else it'll just turn into occasional DLC that GH gets.

[liquidcross]

It's working now. Woohoo!

EDIT: Now that I've actually listened to the thing, a few comments about the Penny Arcade vs. IGN feud. While I do agree that Gabe's done a lot for the gaming fandom and that Jeff from IGN overreacted in his podcast, I do need to play devil's advocate a bit here. I don't think all of Jeff's anger stems from jealousy; sure Gabe's rich, but as a result, he's also become extremely arrogant and self-centered. Hell, he was bragging a few months back about how he drives a Mercedes now, and that makes him better than all of the people he went to high school with! Not to mention his news/blog posts where he craps all over anyone who disagrees with him. (I know part of this may be his PA "persona," but come on, it's not something he's completely making up.) While his original post about AC made sense, and Jeff shouldn't have flipped out about it, the fact does remain that Gabe is not a game reviewer, and really shouldn't be telling others how to do their job. I think his arrogance as a result of his wealth and "power" within the game's world is what really tees off many game journalists (I know a few who fall into this category, but I can't mention any names).

I don't care how much money Gabe makes; that doesn't make him a review. Plus, if you want to through financials around, there's a hell of a lot more money going through IGN and its subsidiaries than PA. Gabe's comments can be well thought-out, but he needs to get off his high horse when he's making them. At the same time, IGN staffers (and others) just shouldn't rise to the bait. Let Gabe call them irrelevant all he wants; when PA can pull in even a fraction of the hits that IGN does, then he can actually back up his statements with facts. (For the record, PA's Alexa rank is currently 2025, while IGN's is 150.)

That's just my two cents. It would be hilarious if Cheapy really did send a shitbag to Gabe's wife, though. ;)

[masked lemon]

I can't get this to work on anything I have tried... not even Myspace.

[ScottG13]

Where is our David Sheppard?

Also, good suggestion up top. Try to get Gabe on for a segment. Free promo for Child's Play plus some discussion of the holiday season and his bitch fight with Jeffie.

[swerv]

People disagree on the internetz shocker!

Move on to the next story.

[cdrober]

Great Cagcast!

I liked all the talk about review scores/ time to play game and such. Also thanks for posting up the interview for us that were asleep.

As for a guest....I think maybe it would be cool to interview the producer of that Godzilla game for the DS, find out what went wrong and wtf they were thinking to actually release that!

[ScottG13]

To answer the question of good potential guests:

Don't bother with devs. You guys are industry comentators so get more industry commentators.

A few more suggestions:
Ron Workman is just hilarious. An easy win.
Justin McElroy from Joystiq is a pretty funny guy. Would probably mesh well with Cheapy and Wombat.
Crecente is a great writer and does a great job in providing news and insight for the community.
John Davidson might be interesting with his new family friendly website (http://www.whattheyplay.com/) venture.

[marshallbanana6]

Aagh ears bleeding!! Don't keep this intro.... sorry to whoever wrote it I'm sure it sounds better on speakers... XD

Other than that... woo! I have been listening to CheapyD and Wombat since Cheapy whored himself on the Joystiq podcast (I think that was the one). Anyway it has quickly become my favorite! Thanks Cheapy and Wombat!

[usickenme]

I think the "jealously" reasoning is pretty weak. I mean, devs make a shit ton more than Jeff at IGN and you don't hear him going off on them week after week. It comes down to this. When someone who doesn't do your job complains loudly that you aren't doing it right; you're going to get pissed. I actually found it funny (funnier than most Penny Arcade, in fact). The guys at PA are pretty freaking arrogant to think that "mentioning them" makes someone relevant.

I do wonder how Cheapy and Wombat did the show with their lips firmly planted on Gabe's butt, however.

[rogueweapon]

Hey now,
Good Show. Drakes is probably the best exclusive ps3 game out. I totally agree that it is more like an Indiana Jones movie than Tomb Raider ever was. Plus it has modern day pirates, sorry Wombat no colonial pirates. Btw game endings do matter, and ubisoft is notorious for cliff hanger, to be continued game endings. I'm not getting Rainbow 6 Vegas 2, fuuck that.

[cgarb84]

Damn still not working for me on Itunes. Rather than listening some other way I'm just going to wait it out until it works on Itunes. Looking forward to listening, sounds like a good show.

[genneo]

yea the dl host sucks.

[genneo]

wohoo! managed to get it now.

[jakehoss]

damnit....now i have to pay for contra 4.... Cheapy youve just joined the massive list of people who make my life hard by making me work and pay for things.... for shame.

[shieryda]

iTunes is still not working properly.

[shoelace1976]

Hey CheapyD and Wombat

Just wanted to say great show. One thing about the Pennyarcade vs. IGN issue, debate, or whatever you want to call it.

I think what is missing from this "debate" is the fact that no matter what, it is still the listeners responsibility in terms of what to do with the information. Personally, I enjoy visiting several game websites including Pennyarcade and the 1up site (and yours is the best of course). I read all the info, gather the data for my brain to analyze and then compare those opinions with my own style and wants and needs in terms of what I am looking for in the game, then make my purchase or rental choices. But when a review does not match my own personal view, I do not take it personally. I find Pennyarcade's reviews and info just as valuable as any others and it is ultimately up to me in terms of what to do with the information. Again yours is the most valuable because in this day of age where I have commute far to work and @#$%#$%$#%$# gas prices are ridiculous, I need to be a cheap ass gamer.

Looking forward to your next show guys.

[cgarb84]

The Itunes download just worked for me. Looking forward to the show.

[PooPooRocket]

The direct download link is now giving me an mp3 file which is only 161 kb in size. Nothing's really working yet.

[sublime90]

that was good, your guest at the end either seemed really high, or just mad you stole her spot lol

[shieryda]

Just got it to dl in iTunes.:bouncy:

[Kosh]

If you ever do have the PA idiots on, give a warning please. I'll skip that show thanks. Nothing like listening to two arrogant assholes who think they're saving video games through their unfunny satire comics.

[infamyRISE]

I'll trust a PA "review" over the trash they sling around at IGN any day of the week.

[orntar]

jakehoss, please make your halo 3 image smaller.

[Outlaw]

Awesome Cagacast once again. Thanks very much CheapyD and Wombat :)

[Dingleberry]

I don't see your complaints about the Rock Band DLC to be very valid. The downloads thenselves were packs of three. And each pack featured a different artist.

If you looked at the tracks in the game, each artist already had a song in the game. They'regiving the gamers an option to buy more tracks from these artists just incase is it one of their favorite bands.

I for one am glad that there wern't three more metallica songs in the game, cause now I won't be forced to play a mystery set and have to hear that ass hat singing the whole time.

[Tsiawd]

link on front page still isnt working

[whatever7]

CheapyD, I have never post or visit CAG, but I have been a listener of the CAG for a long time (for how long don't remeber but more than a year.)However I have to register on CAG (from a mobile phone no less) just tell you the ending of CA is really that bad. It's bad not not becuase its provided no closure: not because it was left wide open for sequels: its bad becuase it hides itself behind a bunch of completed unrelated mystical symbols. It's very pretentious and failed terrible.The sad thing is the gameplay is not going yo be compel enough for you to stick around to find out the ending yourself.(Apologize for any spelling error, I have to type this on a phone.)

[Jesse_Dylan]

What's CA?

Regardless--my, all these comments. Sigh. I wanted the spotlight.

I think you do read them all, though, Cheapy, even if it would be impossible to reply to them all, so I just want to let you know that I get irrationally excited every time a new CAGCast goes up. I adore you and Wombat. I'm new to CAG (joined up two weeks ago), and I love the site. It's perfect for me. I've been a cheap ass gamer for years upon years, and I finally found home.

I had a bit of trouble getting the CAGCast as well, surprisingly, but it does seem to be downloading fine onto my PSP now off RSS.

I haven't listened yet, but for what it's worth, I totally agree that Penny Arcade is being ridiculously obnoxious.

Sorry for the babbliness. I guess I'm taking advantage of the fact that you read all these. This is a pretty nice community, though. We've got a lot of intelligent people here, and it's nice not to see a ton of flaming, terrible grammar and stupidity like is prevalent on most boards.

Thanks for everything, Cheapy. You deserve this success, so please keep it up.

[Kosh]

What's CA?



I think he meant AC, Assassin's Creed.

[outlawmoogle]

I (of course) haven't listened to the CAGcast yet, but one thing I do know about the IGN and Penny Arcade drama is that Penny Arcade comics are included with the limited edition version of Assassin's Creed. Kind of throws PA's opinions out the window.

Assassin's Creed Limited Edition includes!

Premium tin box packaging
Collectible 3-inch Altair figure
Mini strategy guide
Penny Arcade comics
Bonus disc including:
- Finalists of Assassin’s Creed short film contest
- Developer diaries
- Trailers
- Producer interview

[liquidcross]

I (of course) haven't listened to the CAGcast yet, but one thing I do know about the IGN and Penny Arcade drama is that Penny Arcade comics are included with the limited edition version of Assassin's Creed. Kind of throws PA's opinions out the window.
That's a good point. Hadn't even thought of that!

[encendido5]

Hey Wombat, what battery pack did you get for your wiimotes? I'm looking for something similar.

[Kosh]

I (of course) haven't listened to the CAGcast yet, but one thing I do know about the IGN and Penny Arcade drama is that Penny Arcade comics are included with the limited edition version of Assassin's Creed. Kind of throws PA's opinions out the window.

Assassin's Creed Limited Edition includes!
Premium tin box packaging
Collectible 3-inch Altair figure
Mini strategy guide
Penny Arcade comics
Bonus disc including:
- Finalists of Assassin’s Creed short film contest
- Developer diaries
- Trailers
- Producer interview
They did a lot more than that for Assassin's Creed.
Penny Arcade took part in the AC ad sales and ad creation on their site
they've been raving about the game in their editorial content for a long while
they've done at least one comic about itNo matter how anyone spins it, Penny Arcade had a vested interest in Assassin's Creed and Ubisoft. The very same guys, Gabe and Tycho, who wrote/drew/talked glowingly about Assassin's Creed. The very same Gabe who attacked other reviewers' credibility to defend Assassin's Creed.

That being said, I still don't agree with how the IGN guy handled the situation.

[ckranger11]

I (of course) haven't listened to the CAGcast yet, but one thing I do know about the IGN and Penny Arcade drama is that Penny Arcade comics are included with the limited edition version of Assassin's Creed. Kind of throws PA's opinions out the window.

Assassin's Creed Limited Edition includes!
Premium tin box packaging
Collectible 3-inch Altair figure
Mini strategy guide
Penny Arcade comics
Bonus disc including:
- Finalists of Assassin’s Creed short film contest
- Developer diaries
- Trailers
- Producer interview

Yes, I think most people that aren't rushing to judgement and making off-the-cuff remarks knew this when in the preface of the rant that offended IGN, "Gabe" used 498 words (four paragraphs) to explain their advertising strategy and past experiences with advertising with publishers/developers and how it relates to their association to Assassin's Creed.

You can still hold it against them if you want, but it's hardly some nefarious, hidden scandal.

[menikmati]

Awesome, listening to this before class.

[yoinksta]

who was that guest caller from black friday that you spliced on to the end of the podcast? all i could remember was that she was married to someone on the brady bunch.

great podcast once again. really gets me through a thursday at work!

[kevzik]

So what is the deal with now live? Is it going to have a role in the CAGCAST?

[Jesse_Dylan]

About the whole Penny Arcade thing... I personally don't care what Gabe has to say. It's true Jeff may have been out of line on the IGN podcast (which I bet he'd admit eventually), but Jeff didn't even write the review, I don't think; it was Hilary as far as I know.

And they didn't even say Assassin's Creed was *bad*, you know. They gave it a 7.7. That's not that bad at all. It basically goes exactly along with what Cheapy said about the game. Pretty cool but really repetitive.

I listen to the IGN podcasts, not just the CAGCast (I listen to the 1up podcast as well, and I think they basically ignored Penny Arcade).

I tend to agree with IGN's assessment of the game, even Jeff's sentiments, although he probably got his emotion get the better of him. I don't think he was jealous, though. He likes his job. Most of those guys do.

And hey, I wanna hear more about the naked 17 year-old in--what game was that? Turok? ha, what the hell? That's funny. I'm gonna have to google it.

[swerv]

I (of course) haven't listened to the CAGcast yet, but one thing I do know about the IGN and Penny Arcade drama is that Penny Arcade comics are included with the limited edition version of Assassin's Creed. Kind of throws PA's opinions out the window.

Assassin's Creed Limited Edition includes!
Penny Arcade comics They did a lot more than that for Assassin's Creed.
Penny Arcade took part in the AC ad sales and ad creation on their site
they've been raving about the game in their editorial content for a long while
they've done at least one comic about itNo matter how anyone spins it, Penny Arcade had a vested interest in Assassin's Creed and Ubisoft. The very same guys, Gabe and Tycho, who wrote/drew/talked glowingly about Assassin's Creed. The very same Gabe who attacked other reviewers' credibility to defend Assassin's Creed.

This just got funny, nice catch you two. It's a shame that Jeff guy didn't catch on to this (or Wombat and Cheapy for that matter) it might have actually made his rant more interesting.

Cheapy said they're rich though and selling out is an easy way to make money, kind of ironic given some of the arguements the Penny Arcade guys have used against reviewers.

[ckranger11]

This just got funny, nice catch you two. It's a shame that Jeff guy didn't catch on to this (or Wombat and Cheapy for that matter) it might have actually made his rant more interesting.

Cheapy said they're rich though and selling out is an easy way to make money, kind of ironic given some of the arguements the Penny Arcade guys have used against reviewers.

As I said above, if you read the original post that got the IGN guy pissed, this was fully disclosed right at the start of the AC rant.

"Nice catch"? You sure give credit to odd things. "Way to breathe, eat, and sleep, you guys!"

[gunm]

Lovin' Mass Effect so far. Also in the Citadel like Wombat--good observation about the possible basis for ME, BTW Wombat. My character ended up looking like Gillian Anderson, but I ended up calling her Jennifer. Yay I'm not creative.

And lolz @ the self-absorbed retard @ IGN thinking the gaming world revolves around him/them. Very clever attacking Penny Arcade for ratings/page views. I was wondering about the odd Title of this week's CAGcast...

[menikmati]

who was that guest caller from black friday that you spliced on to the end of the podcast? all i could remember was that she was married to someone on the brady bunch.

great podcast once again. really gets me through a thursday at work!

Adrianne Curry.

[genneo]

all the penny arcade "bashing" to get on their front page was downright hillaious!!!!!

[bickle]

I wanna know more about this sign-up-as-a-minor-and-get-no-ads-on-Xbox-Live. Are there any downsides to it? I'd give up my lame achievement point total if I could start over and have no ads.

[chesspiece_face]

the added irony regarding the penny arcade/ign dispute is that the Jeff guy that went on the rant for IGN wasn't even the person that reviewed Assassins Creed. Hilary Goldstein reviewed Assassins Creed for IGN.

Yeah, Jeff from IGN was way out of line. But Gabe really doesn't know what he's talking about in his retort either. Hilary on the other hand, seems content to just laugh about the whole thing and make fun of everyone involved...

Edit: BEAT'D!! My head asplode!

[Pirate Ninja]

This just got funny, nice catch you two. It's a shame that Jeff guy didn't catch on to this (or Wombat and Cheapy for that matter) it might have actually made his rant more interesting.

There is no "catch" since Gabe laid out their involvement with AC and Ubisoft in his rant post. This fact wasn't hidden from the public. The post in question is linked here (http://www.penny-arcade.com/2007/11/14). Their relationship with Ubisoft wasn't always rosy.

Some of the people here seem to not actually have read the rant post in question and just going off with what they heard on IGN and CAGs podcasts.

[yukine]

I (of course) haven't listened to the CAGcast yet, but one thing I do know about the IGN and Penny Arcade drama is that Penny Arcade comics are included with the limited edition version of Assassin's Creed. Kind of throws PA's opinions out the window.

Assassin's Creed Limited Edition includes!
Premium tin box packaging
Collectible 3-inch Altair figure
Mini strategy guide
Penny Arcade comics
Bonus disc including:
- Finalists of Assassin’s Creed short film contest
- Developer diaries
- Trailers
- Producer interview
And that is why Gabe prefaced his defense of AC with this:

I want to talk about Assassins Creed but first I need to get something out of the way. I have a lot to say about the game and I want to talk about some of the bad reviews it's getting but I want to make sure everyone understands I'm not saying this because of the comic we did for them. So I'm going to link you to an old set of news posts (http://www.penny-arcade.com/2004/12/03)about Prince of Persia 2. Feel free to read those and come back if you like.

Now I'm going to tell you how advertising on PA works. Every other game site out there takes ads for whatever game they can get. It doesn't matter if it's a pile of crap, if the publisher pays for the spot IGN or Gamespot or whoever will run the ad. That's fine but that's not how we do it and the news posts you just read are part of the reason why.

We were huge fans of the first Prince of Persia game so when Ubi came to us and wanted to run ads for the second we said yes. We had no idea they were going to completely fuck it over. So from then on we started demanding playable copies of games before we'd agree to advertising. No matter how early the build we tell the publishers that unless we can see it played in front of us or play it ourselves we won't run ads for it. Obviously a lot can still go wrong during development but we make the best decisions we can. We do not think of the ads you see on our page as ads. They are recommendations and we try extremely hard to insure that anything we put over there is worth your time. When Prince of Persia 2 came out and we saw that it was crap we said as much on the site. Ads for the game appeared right next to those news posts slamming it. Needless to say Ubi wasn't very happy and Robert got some angry phone calls but our loyalty is to our readers not the people paying the bills. We explained to Ubi that the reason our ads perform better than any other site out there is because our readers trust us and that means we have to admit when something we advertise doesn't turn out as good as we hoped. Obviously they understood because we're still advertising their games but like I said this isn't the way other sites operate. I actually give Ubi a lot of credit for not just telling us to fuck off and buying more ads on IGN and Gamespy with the extra money.

I'm telling you all this because I want you to understand that if Assassins Creed actually was a 7.0 game I'd tell you. I also want you to know that when I tell you it's fucking incredible I'm not bullshitting you because we're running ads for the game.

I can't really say much regarding this, since I haven't played AC yet. But I think Jeff (is that his name?) going off on Gabe was a bit ridiculous. All he was saying was that don't listen to reviewers like sheep and give the game a try. Not sure why he got all butthurt over it, he didn't specifically say "IGN" or "That douche at IGN named Jeff." I think the guy has mental issues or something.

[whoknows]

Well, IGN had better watch out. Penny-Arcade might make a comic about the situation if they haven't already. That'll teach IGN.

[Milkyman]

Ef IGN. the only good things about ign are the girls, Hilary Goldstein, Fran Mirabella and Jessica Chobot, the three red rings podcast they have is really the only one worth listening to mostly thanks to Hilary.

yeah i know hilary and fran are dudes

[y2julio]

IGN can shove it. Penny Arcade FTW.

[Kosh]

As I said above, if you read the original post that got the IGN guy pissed, this was fully disclosed right at the start of the AC rant.

"Nice catch"? You sure give credit to odd things. "Way to breathe, eat, and sleep, you guys!"

Oh, right. So, you're saying the money Gabe recieved for all the work he did on this game didn't influence him in advocating the game? Why, just because he said so before ragging on the low score some reviewer gave the game? So, no matter what he says, it's absolutely true?

Of course, things like this are a huge problem in the video game media industry. Too many money hats changing hands.

[Strell]

Oh, right. So, you're saying the money he recieved for all the work he did on this game didn't influence him in advocating the game? Why, just because he said so before ragging on the low score some reviewer gave the game? So, no matter what he says, it's absolutely true?

Of course, things like this are a huge problem in the video game media industry. Too many money hats changing hands.

You must not know....anything about Penny Arcade.

At all.

[thorbahn3]

All this shit about AC getting mixed reviews and the backlash is kind of funny.
Everyone is acting like there has never been a "love it or hate it" game before it. I love Animal Crossing but some gamers hate it. I hated Dead Rising but some people love it. AC is in the same boat.

[meager]

I think you should try and set up an interview with Bill Murray & Dan Akroyd (though you'll probably just end up with Harold Ramis) about the Ghostbusters game. Do they really think one gun will sustain enough gameplay to make this thing decent? I have a feeling it is going to be a lot of looking around for crap and lame jumping puzzles.


I tuned in for about 20 seconds of Cheapy's live Thanksgiving show. Just long enough to hear this awkward exchange:

Cheapy: What's with that accent? Where you from, Boston?
Accent Guy: I'm from England.
Cheapy: Oh.

I didn't think it could get any better than that, so I left on that high note.


I don't have much of a problem with the downloadable content for Rock Band in general, I just wish there was different song selections. I want "No One Knows" which was on the first Guitar Hero, but never made it to any of the dl content for the other games. Instead, they put out a bunch of Queens of the Stone Age songs I don't know. They should already have the guitar parts to "No One Knows" so why can't they just throw together the drums and bass and go?

[yukine]

Oh, right. So, you're saying the money he recieved for all the work he did on this game didn't influence him in advocating the game? Why, just because he said so before ragging on the low score some reviewer gave the game? So, no matter what he says, it's absolutely true?

Of course, things like this are a huge problem in the video game media industry. Too many money hats changing hands.
No, not at all. I've seen Penny-Arcade openly bash a game, even with fucking ads of the game right next to the article!

You rarely see it now, because as Gabe already stated: They don't do any work for a game (comics and what have you) or allow any ads on their site from a game they haven't played and enjoy. Besides, why would Tycho & Gabe risk their credibility over one game? It's not going to happen, they are not going to be utter fucking sellouts like the guys at IGN have proven to be in the past.

[io]

All this shit about AC getting mixed reviews and the backlash is kind of funny.
Everyone is acting like there has never been a "love it or hate it" game before it. I love Animal Crossing but some gamers hate it. I hated Dead Rising but some people love it. AC is in the same boat.

This is something I was thinking about last night after I made my post about Cheapy's "Super Frank Galaxy" comments (and how SMG didn't deserve the top spot which it doesn't have anyway at this point). The thing about Super Mario Galaxy is that it is a SOLID Mario game very accessible to a wide range of gamers so it is very unlikely to receive any "hate", unlike more controversial titles. So the very high average score is no surprise.

Though I don't want to call it a kids game, compare it to, say, a top-tier Pixar movie. According to Rotten Tomatoes, Toy Story 2 is the best movie of all time. (Actually, they have expanded their rankings quite a bit since the last time I looked - it shares 100% with MANY other movies, including many old ones but is on top because it has the highest number of reviews). But would any of us consider it THE best movie of all time? Probably not. But perhaps it is the best movie of all time in terms of general likeability. I think Mario Galaxy qualifies for that over things like Orange Box and Bioshock for sure.

[Kosh]

You must not know....anything about Penny Arcade.

At all.

I know they have a lot of sheep.

[H.Cornerstone]

Get David Jaffe on your show. :)

[Strell]

I know they have a lot of sheep.

You know, it is extraordinarily easy for someone to use your little tactic. It takes no forethought, no planning, no anything. All you have to do is dismiss something you don't know anything about, and if anyone says otherwise, you can just as easily call that person a sheep. It's an old and tired tactic, but it gets used on the Internets quite a bit as if it were taken from Sun Tzu himself.

I hope you know that you're accomplishing nothing. Opening up yourself by making comments that are baseless in nature, and then not offering to listen to anyone who says otherwise makes you look like an ass.

And I'd rather be a "sheep" than an ass any day.

So continue to dismiss everything I could possibly have to say, perched atop your little superiority high horse all you want, ok junior?

I mean it would be one thing if you could back up any of your accusations. But you can't, which tells me that no one should listen to you, attempt to argue with you, or say anything further.

[ckranger11]

Oh, right. So, you're saying the money he recieved for all the work he did on this game didn't influence him in advocating the game? Why, just because he said so before ragging on the low score some reviewer gave the game? So, no matter what he says, it's absolutely true?

Of course, things like this are a huge problem in the video game media industry. Too many money hats changing hands.

How did you get that out of what you quoted? I was simply pointing out that the guys who think they're unearthing some big scoop by saying UbiSoft and PA have a marketing agreement are completely clueless to the situation at hand.

Reading comprehension, much? Come to think of it, maybe that's why you don't like Penny Arcade.

[Kosh]

How did you get that out of what you quoted? I was simply pointing out that the guys who think they're unearthing some big scoop by saying UbiSoft and PA have a marketing agreement are completely clueless to the situation at hand.

Reading comprehension, much? Come to think of it, maybe that's why you don't like Penny Arcade.


I don't think anyone thought they were unearthing some big scoop. Where did you get that idea? I was just pointing out the obvious and it wasn't brought up in the show. That's the only reason I pointed it out.

I think the only reason Gabe said that upfront was because he knew he was going to look bad. However, that still doesn't mean he couldn't have been lying and have an ulterior motive. Of course, his flock buys into everytime, just ask Strell, one of Gabe's sheep.

[Strell]

Of course, his flock buys into everytime, just ask Strell, one of Gabe's sheep.

You'll go far at McDonald's, kid.

[Trenchalicious]

I couldn't care less about their little pansy feud.

I do however care about this stupid DLC already on the disk, but you have to pay to download a 80KB file to unlock the stupid stuff. Companies need to stop that shit. People need to take those people to task. Do it CAGcast, do it.

[lokizz]

the whole concept of game reviews is pretty obsolete. you can look at video footage to see what the game looks and plays like and if you really need to get hands on you can rent games cheap enough to see whats what. add to that many gamess can be bought down the road on the cheap ( and with that many poorly reviewed games are pretty fun when you pay very little for them) theres really not much of a need for reviewers. not to mention all the rampant fanboy bullshit and scores being affected by money and why bother? hell any official magazine for any game console will always inflate games way more than they should. videos, rentals are the way to go.

[Levizk]

You know, it is extraordinarily easy for someone to use your little tactic. It takes no forethought, no planning, no anything. All you have to do is dismiss something you don't know anything about, and if anyone says otherwise, you can just as easily call that person a sheep. It's an old and tired tactic, but it gets used on the Internets quite a bit as if it were taken from Sun Tzu himself.

I hope you know that you're accomplishing nothing. Opening up yourself by making comments that are baseless in nature, and then not offering to listen to anyone who says otherwise makes you look like an ass.

And I'd rather be a "sheep" than an ass any day.

So continue to dismiss everything I could possibly have to say, perched atop your little superiority high horse all you want, ok junior?

I mean it would be one thing if you could back up any of your accusations. But you can't, which tells me that no one should listen to you, attempt to argue with you, or say anything further.

I don't really care about PA or IGN one way or the other, but you're getting awfully defensive over one sentence that you yourself discount as being utter nonsense. Better to just ignore him because that long retort to an inflammatory one-liner looks like someone trying to convince themself.

[4nik8tor]

I have to poop.

[shieryda]

Cheapy's comment about shitting in an envelope and sending it to Gabe's wife was amusing.

[LiK]

wow, that's awesome. Cheapy's brush with mainstream fame in that live test show, hee hee. she's a definite hottie. :)

btw Cheapy and Wombat, i agree that Mass Effect is awesome even with all the technical glitches. try putting on a Railgun attachment on your pistol. it sounds like a freakin cannon ^.^

welcome back boys. ^_^

[Shion]

I feel insulted that Cheapy was compelled to review a game in the cast after playing it for probably less than 5 minutes.

Good as a platform game?

I call for Cheapy to admit that he just doesn't GET certain games.
He says Drake's Fortune has "personality" but the only thing he can muster up about Mario is that Super Frank's Galaxy would be less popular because it's not Mario?

Drake's Fortune is great because it's "cinematic"... this is not the first time Cheapy has merited a game for being "cinematic"...

And of course Cheapy is concerned about the absence of blood in the game if you have a Japanese PS3... please Cheapy, just admit that you like the game because it reminds you of Indiana Jones, because it's violent and action-packed, and filled with alpha-male movie cliches, things that Cheapy GETS.

But Mario? Does Galaxy lack cinematic presentation? Is it a game without personality? Is it just a good platformer?

Please Cheapy, just admit that you are a very selective gamer who just doesn't GET games with the kind of style and presentation of Galaxy.

[GLOCKGLOCK]

That interview was pretty amusing. She sounded pretty loaded too. Who was co-hosting with Cheapy?

As for my Question on the CAG GamerPics on XBL, I'd be willing to pony up if you have to charge for them. I always vowed I wouldn't pay for GamerPics but for CAG I'll break my rule.

[ObiBen]

I always look forward to the weekly CAGCast. There is one question that I have for Wombat. Did you say that your favorite Mario game was Super Mario Bros. 2? I can't say that I agree, but I'm interested in hearing why it is your favorite Mario game.

Cheapy, I'm going to be a new dad soon. I was wondering if you had any tips on how to still game and do the parent thing. I'm guessing I'll be cutting back my time on Halo 3 and other online games and playing more Live Arcade or single player games (which I don't mind).

Keep up the good work!

http://profile.mygamercard.net/ObiBen8%5D%5Bimg%5Dhttp://card.mygamercard.net/sig/ObiBen8.png

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/benm/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg

[orntar]

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/benm/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg

fyi: you can't use images stored on you local hdd. upload it to photobucket or similar, then link it.

[4nik8tor]

I still havent pooped.

[crackerz]

For paid xbox picks the cag could use the share of the profits for prizes, for the cags so the money goes back to the community. I would defintely buy picks no matter what. I've saved more than a dollar since I've become a cag.

[shieryda]

I always look forward to the weekly CAGCast. There is one question that I have for Wombat. Did you say that your favorite Mario game was Super Mario Bros. 2? I can't say that I agree, but I'm interested in hearing why it is your favorite Mario game.

Cheapy, I'm going to be a new dad soon. I was wondering if you had any tips on how to still game and do the parent thing. I'm guessing I'll be cutting back my time on Halo 3 and other online games and playing more Live Arcade or single player games (which I don't mind).

Keep up the good work!

http://profile.mygamercard.net/ObiBen8%5D%5Bimg%5Dhttp://card.mygamercard.net/sig/ObiBen8.png

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/benm/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg

PM sent!

[Tybee]

I always look forward to the weekly CAGCast. There is one question that I have for Wombat. Did you say that your favorite Mario game was Super Mario Bros. 2? I can't say that I agree, but I'm interested in hearing why it is your favorite Mario game.

Dollars to donuts he meant SMB3. They've confused SMB2 and 3 on the CAGcast before.

My favorite part of this episode? That the ad inserter felt that the most likely spot for the mid-show Navy ad was immediately following the Gabe/Tycho poop-eating digression. Nice. One load of shit deserves another, I guess. :roll:

Cheapy, I kind of understand others' frustration about you casually passing judgement on Galaxy with one star under your belt (and shame on Wombat for basically agreeing, saying that ridiculously brief playtime was enough to glean an accurate overall impression since "the gameplay doesn't change that much later on"). Excuse me? Meanwhile, Drake's Fortune and Mass Effect get starry-eyed, 15-minute discussions. I understand your play time is limited. As you pointed out, you have a stack of games and a new baby vying for your attention right now. But if that's the case, simply table discussion of the title until you actually get some legitimate playtime with it. Don't fart out a review simply to fill out the Nintendo segment.

Regarding the whole IGN/Penny Arcade controversy: I read PA and I also listen to some of IGN's podcasts (though not the PS3 or 360 ones). Given a choice, I'll trust PA over IGN any day of the week. The IGN guys are mildly amusing and occasionally hit upon a unique insight, but more often than not they seem to simply enjoy acting like and talking out of their asses. Frankly, Jeff's rant is just one in a series I've heard from them on their podcasts, though they usually reserve that kind of abuse/ridicule for their own readers. :roll:

Gabe and Tycho obviously had ties to AC, but they didn't hide them. To the contrary, they went out of their way to point them out. And if one or both of them generally liked the game, then they are entitled to address what they see as incorrect or unfair criticisms without being accused of doing so for financial gain. That said, I do think there is some ego involved, as this was a game they endorsed and advertised, and given their insistence only doing that for games they think are worth playing, they felt obligated to justify the game's worthiness.

[chesspiece_face]

You must not know....anything about Penny Arcade.

At all.

You know, it is extraordinarily easy for someone to use your little tactic. It takes no forethought, no planning, no anything. All you have to do is dismiss something you don't know anything about, and if anyone says otherwise, you can just as easily call that person a sheep. It's an old and tired tactic, but it gets used on the Internets quite a bit as if it were taken from Sun Tzu himself.

I hope you know that you're accomplishing nothing. Opening up yourself by making comments that are baseless in nature, and then not offering to listen to anyone who says otherwise makes you look like an ass.

And I'd rather be a "sheep" than an ass any day.

So continue to dismiss everything I could possibly have to say, perched atop your little superiority high horse all you want, ok junior?

I mean it would be one thing if you could back up any of your accusations. But you can't, which tells me that no one should listen to you, attempt to argue with you, or say anything further.

I'm choking on the irony. There really isn't enough bold on the internets to properly emphasize these posts.

[Wombat]

I really like SMB2, the different characters and the secret doors. It was the first game that really sucked me. It's my fav, so sue me

[Tybee]

I really like SMB2, the different characters and the secret doors. It was the first game that really sucked me. It's my fav, so sue me

Huh...I stand corrected. Nothing wrong with liking whatcha like. Let your freak flag fly. ;)

[Joon2324]

great cagcast guys. is it my imagination or are both of you mispronouncing "mario." this comes as a shock after wombat called out cheapy on the last cagcast. every time you guys say mario it irks me because the game starts up with mario saying, "Super Mario Galaxy."

I'm too lazy to decipher you're pronunciations. Am i insane?

Also: http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160108

[vosos102]

I agree with Wombat on SMB2.

Also, am I the only one who thinks this Adrianne Curry character was stoned or incapacitated in some respect? At least I hope she was...

[vosos102]

great cagcast guys. is it my imagination or are both of you mispronouncing "mario." this comes as a shock after wombat called out cheapy on the last cagcast. every time you guys say mario it irks me because the game starts up with mario saying, "Super Mario Galaxy."

I'm too lazy to decipher you're pronunciations. Am i insane?

Very.

[mega_n00bzer]

I really like SMB2, the different characters and the secret doors. It was the first game that really sucked me. It's my fav, so sue me

though not my favourite game, SMB2 was awesome. I wont sue you, but I can see CAG's posting pictures of pheonix wright saying OBJECTION before the day is over

[Trenchalicious]

I really like SMB2, the different characters and the secret doors. It was the first game that really sucked me. It's my fav, so sue me

You'll be hearing from my lawyer and Good Taste Inc.

j/k, I liked that game too, but I still like a couple others better.

[mik]

I really like SMB2, the different characters and the secret doors. It was the first game that really sucked me.
I've been looking forever for a game that would suck me.

[MaxDense]

the added irony regarding the penny arcade/ign dispute is that the Jeff guy that went on the rant for IGN wasn't even the person that reviewed Assassins Creed. Hilary Goldstein reviewed Assassins Creed for IGN.


Hilary Goldstein wrote the review but Jeff Haynes added "Another Take" to the end of it, basically seconding Hilary's opinion.

Adrianne Curry sounded drunk.

http://card.mygamercard.net/lastgame/MaxDense.png (http://profile.mygamercard.net/MaxDense)

http://www.tripletags.com/uploads/M/MaxDense35037072.jpg (http://www.tripletags.com/profile.asp?memberID=5289)

[Tsiawd]

1st off its "Mar-e-o, not "mare-e-o", you 2 drive me nuts on that... Thanks for keepin everything else Real that is what makes you special! Anyway... have either of you played TF2 on the PC and not just on the 360? IF you havent you are missing out! I own both versions of the orange box and TF2 fucking sucks on the 360, while on PC its one of the best Team FPS i have ever played. I know you like it on 360 and that Cheapy "last i heard" doesnt understand it... Thx keep up the good work!

[meager]

Cheapy, I kind of understand others' frustration about you casually passing judgement on Galaxy with one star under your belt (and shame on Wombat for basically agreeing, saying that ridiculously brief playtime was enough to glean an accurate overall impression since "the gameplay doesn't change that much later on"). Excuse me? Meanwhile, Drake's Fortune and Mass Effect get starry-eyed, 15-minute discussions. I understand your play time is limited. As you pointed out, you have a stack of games and a new baby vying for your attention right now. But if that's the case, simply table discussion of the title until you actually get some legitimate playtime with it. Don't fart out a review simply to fill out the Nintendo segment.

The fact that SMG isn't compelling enough for Cheapy to spend more time with it is actually a huge part of the "review." He's not a professional reviewer, so therefore he doesn't HAVE to spend time with it (although you'd htink he'd want to try and get his money's worth out of it). If the game gets a heck of a lot better later is meaningless if the beginning isn't compelling enough for him to stick with it, rather than jump ship to another game. It's like a movie that has an awesome ending... it won't matter if you're already asleep by the time it gets there.

So for Cheapy to say he's only competed the one level is a review in itself... to him it's definitely not the greatest game ever; it's not even the greatest game in his to-play pile.

[H.Cornerstone]

All Cheapy said was he didn't think it was the greatest game ever as it's game rankings implied, I don't have any problem with what he said. He's not bashing the game, just stating that he doesn't think it deserves as much praise as it's been getting. And he even said "Hey, I only have one star, haven't played it much, but this is my impression so far." It's not like he reviewed it, just gave his first impression.

And the whole PA and IGN thing, both sides are wrong, IGN is wrong for going off, and PA is wrong for bringing attention to it. And IGN is more relevant than PA, right or wrong, it's true. It's probably the most well-known game website. While the actual reviewers aren't known, everyone always talks about when "IGN" reviews a game, not PA. And I am sure everyone would be upset if someone told us how to do our jobs, and it was wrong for Gabe to call out reviewers as if they didn't finish the entire game, when he had absolutely no idea. Either way, watching the Game Trailers video review was all i needed to convince me not to buy the game, but Cheapy's impressions and IGN reviews are also very helpful, as gamespot isn't trust worthy anymore, and who knows with the PA guys.

Heres what Tycho had to say, and he does it in a much better way. He just states his opinion on the game rather than stating what is wrong about the other reviewers and sort of bashes Gabe for how he did it.

Gabriel has apparently made an enemy (http://www.penny-arcade.com/news/show/22320), perhaps I should say another one, as he does every few months the site is in operation. The man in question can barely put one word after the other by the time he is done with his bizarre soliloquy, rage at my cohort had swallowed his intellect whole. Now he understands one tenth of what it's like to interact with Michael Fucking Krahulik every day.
In essence, the post that started all the trouble (http://www.penny-arcade.com/news/show/22310) asserts three things:
1. Game Reviewers Are Wrong
2. They Will Always Be Wrong

and the next one, the one that still brings out the sweat on their forehead,

3. Their Method For Reviewing Games Is Corrupt In An Imperceptible Way.

My partner in this enterprise is a base and vile aggressor, and I must often make peace, defend my honor, or assert my status as a unique being (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/11/28). This is actually a rare case where he and I actually agree on the game in question, unlike, say, Call of Duty 4 (whose merits I was never able to convince him of) or Mass Effect (which I essentially had to force him to play).
Some of the complaints I've read simply aren't factual - for example, the "one button" or "button mashing" combat is actually six button combat, built around two stances and few precise timing elements that should appeal to fans of fighting and rhythm games, of which we are both. As you progress, you're given these buttons and their functions one at a time. If you don't like the timing on a particular weapon, you're welcome to try the other two. Much of it is just taste, and I don't have such a high opinion of myself that I'm making declaratory statements about ludic law. If I had to state the difference between our approach and others, it's that we seem to understand that we are simply expressing an opinion. The age of the psychic reviewer shaman is over. You should never allow a meaningless, arbitrary integer promulgated by an arbitrary voice who came to power arbitrarily make decisions for you. That's essentially what Gabriel was trying to say, but he said it in a Gabriel way and it may be that the signal was lost.
The Investigations one must perform to reveal an assassination target are drawn from a limited pool of activities - much has been said about how repetitive this makes the game. There's really no argument there, a greater number of these might have ameliorated some of the complaints. If we didn't feel like doing a particular type of mission at that moment, we found another one we actually wanted to - there are several options per target, and at least half of them are optional. But for us, after we've taken a dynamic route to a place, being careful to look for clean lines we can traverse dramatically, dealt with rooftop guards, and then activated the investigation of our choice (hearing a completely custom conversation that reveals more about the game's personalities), we have experienced something unique. Sitting on a bench to overhear a conversation is not especially exciting, and we rarely chose to do it. But picking pockets or interrogating revealed a number of unique scenarios: the target must be robbed in in-between arches, while you are blocked from the view of the guards. The target immediately passes two guards on the way into a walled section of the city. The target's route passes by alert guards on his left roughly every four seconds down a long road, until there is a moment to snatch the document. This is all after interacting with one of the three bureau chiefs to get these missions, all of which have extremely distinct personalities and who relate to you differently as the game progresses.
Each assassination is also completely unique, and the later missions are as cinematic and tense as anything I have ever played in a videogame, but if you are not engaged by the story or are playing it for some other purpose than to play it may be that these things don't penetrate. If you don't understand how combat works at this point - after having it given to you button by button over the course of twelve hours - you will hate it. The ending of the game is, for lack of a better term, French. We liked the ability to discern elements about future games in the series, but then, we enjoyed this one. If you hated this game already, evidence of future torment was probably unwelcome.

(CW)TB out.

And Podcast Beyond is awesome, it's always hilarious and the songs are always worth the listen. Especially Ryan Clements, he's awesome. His song with the Portal song was epic. BEYOWNED!

[eastx]

I know they have a lot of sheep.

Sheep nothing. You should keep your weak opinions to yourself.

1st off its "Mar-e-o, not "mare-e-o", you 2 drive me nuts on that...

I have to agree. I don't care where you're from, everybody knows how to pronounce Mario. C'mon Cheappy...

[steverl22]

Good show, cheapy get that brown stuff off your nose. A grown man should never have their nose that far up some other guys butt.

[yukine]

Well I think Halo 3 isn't as good as the reviews say it is, I only played about the first level and I can already tell it's not compelling enough to stick with it. You know, if it was called "Gayo" instead of "Halo" it wouldn't get nearly as much praise.

[eastx]

Well I think Halo 3 isn't as good as the reviews say it is, I only played about the first level and I can already tell it's not compelling enough to stick with it. You know, if it was called "Gayo" instead of "Halo" it wouldn't get nearly as much praise.

And you obviously haven't played it enough to make a decent judgment. Not to mention that the whole game has four-player co-op and there's also a huge VS. multiplayer component.

[yukine]

And you obviously haven't played it enough to make a decent judgment. Not to mention that the whole game has four-player co-op and there's also a huge VS. multiplayer component.
Exactly. Read the above posts to see where I'm going with this (specifically meager/H.Cornerstone's posts.)

[Wombat]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSte8m4Da6A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSte8m4Da6A)

Listen closely for the pronunciation

[swerv]

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/26683.html

Original language should be the watermark. A bit like watching foriegn movies with original audio and subtitles rather than dubbed.

[CheapyD]

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/26683.html

Original language should be the watermark. A bit like watching foriegn movies with original audio and subtitles rather than dubbed.
So I assume you refer to this guy as "Sunaeku" ;)
http://inventorspot.com/files/images/Solid%20Snake.img_assist_custom.jpg

[blaked569]

well let's go to the source himself, mario. does he say "it's a me, mar-e-o," or does he say "it's a me, MARE-e-o?" i always thought it was the first one, but i could be wrong.

[yukine]

Does it really matter?

It's never bothered me, but I also don't go batshit insane when someone pronounces "toe-may-toe" as "toe-mah-toe" either.

[CYRiX]

If you cant stand them saying Mario like mare-e-o then how can you stand people's accents?

[usickenme]

Listen closely for the pronunciation

1.) its an Atari commerical
2.) The Luigi in the commerical says it right
3.) Pretty much every game where mario speaks ever says "Mar-ee-oo"

Doesn't bother me per se, but you're wrong.

[sp00ge]

I'd just like to say that this is the first time I've listened in (after hearing that my saga was brought up) and I had a few good laughs.

Thanks for bringing up this ever-growing issue of game addiction, Cheapy.

EDIT: The whole narration of the post reminded me of Casey Kasem. I was waiting for a song dedication. :D

[Blackout]

Those online games are really addicting. A friend of mine was hooked on Runescape a couple years ago. The guy couldn't stop playing for anything. He would sell his character's weapons or whatever was on there and steal other people's passwords to get their stuff (people he knew, not random online players). He would guard his password like a dog and constantly switch it so no one could hack his account. He wasn't a geeky guy or anything, or the typical sterotype of a person you would think would be sucked into these games. In fact he didn't play video games at all, so I don't know how he got hooked on it. When he played it was like he was in a trance. He finally got off of it though, which was good.

[Trenchalicious]

Your first mistake was caring about how New Yorkers say anything. They have a unique accent to say the least, thankfully not as annoying as the southern hick accent though.

[H.Cornerstone]

Just my two cents, but how do you guys pronounce these other "mar" words?

Market
Mars
Marble
Martyr
Marginal
Mar
March
Del Mar
Marsh
Marshmellow
The only exception to this would be Mary, but that is just Merry misspelled so it doesn't count. ;) Plus, Mario derives from the Latin word "Marius" which is pronounced with the Mars saying. So if you want to go with the saying names like the country it oringates from then that would be correct, and seeing how we get 56% of our language from latin, thats the way it is said.
Are you guys wrong? No, it's where you grow up and New Yorkans can never say anything correctly. ;). But technically speaking, you are pronouncing it wrong.

[Drue]

I'm sure this has already been talked about, but I've only been listening to the CAGcast for a few months now. What training in radio/interviewing does Cheapy have? He somehow dragged an acceptable interview out of Curry during her drunken ramblings.

[McBacon]

Great podcast, make sure you give us an update on the Cheapassgamer.com 2.0 renovations when possible!

[Tybee]

All Cheapy said was he didn't think it was the greatest game ever as it's game rankings implied, I don't have any problem with what he said. He's not bashing the game, just stating that he doesn't think it deserves as much praise as it's been getting. And he even said "Hey, I only have one star, haven't played it much, but this is my impression so far." It's not like he reviewed it, just gave his first impression.

And the whole PA and IGN thing, both sides are wrong, IGN is wrong for going off, and PA is wrong for bringing attention to it. And IGN is more relevant than PA, right or wrong, it's true. It's probably the most well-known game website. While the actual reviewers aren't known, everyone always talks about when "IGN" reviews a game, not PA. And I am sure everyone would be upset if someone told us how to do our jobs, and it was wrong for Gabe to call out reviewers as if they didn't finish the entire game, when he had absolutely no idea. Either way, watching the Game Trailers video review was all i needed to convince me not to buy the game, but Cheapy's impressions and IGN reviews are also very helpful, as gamespot isn't trust worthy anymore, and who knows with the PA guys.

Heres what Tycho had to say, and he does it in a much better way. He just states his opinion on the game rather than stating what is wrong about the other reviewers and sort of bashes Gabe for how he did it.

You make some good points. I was a little harsh on Cheapy. But I still strongly disagree with whoever said his lack of motivation to play Galaxy was, in effect, a review. Sorry, no.

And your assessment of the PA/IGN kerfuffle is probably the most sensible I've seen to this point.

[tigerthecat]

cheaps that lady u had on in the end shes sounds like shes never played a game. and retarded if u ask me plz no more of that bitch please!

[mega_n00bzer]

cheaps that lady u had on in the end shes sounds like shes never played a game. and retarded if u ask me plz no more of that bitch please!

not all people play games jackass. who cares if she never played a game! whats wrong with you? your two threads so far are jokes

[Purkeynator]

Hey Cheapy While listening to some older podcasts I had a couple questions pop up. I was listening to number 42 where you had Jimmy Mac on the show and he asked if you were ever going to fix vbookie. You said you were after working out some server issues. What ever happened to that? It has been down forever. Also I wanted to point out that Wombat said the 360 vision camera would never be worth $40 and was useless. Here we are over a year later and he was right on the money with that one. Also you guys mentioned you thought there would be a third lego Star Wars with coop and they would milk the franchise for every penny. (again right on the mark). It appears you guys actually do know what you are talking about from time to time.
One last question, did you go back and add Navy commercials to older CAG casts? I noticed episode 43 has a Navy ad at the beginning and I don't remember you doing Navy ads until recently (the podcasts in the 90's maybe). I listened to these older ones when they first came out and I don't remember there being any ads. Are you still taking requests for favorite clips from past cag casts for episode 100? If so do we actually need to send you the clip or can we just tell you what episode and what time in the episode it starts? Thanks and keep up the great work!

[yukine]

I don't remember any ads either, so I take it this deal was retroactive?

[cgarb84]

I am behind IGN on this whole AC argument. Whoever said that PA is more relevant than IGN in the games world is straight up retarded. IGN is the most populated gaming website on the Internet. Their game reviews carry as much weight as any publication or website on the planet. These guys are paid to review games for a living, I will trust their viewpoint over a couple of douche bags who write comics for a living. People who think that IGN has a biased towards games but PA is completely non-biased for certain titles are kidding themselves. Everybody have motivations people.

And furthermore who gives a shit what an IGN editor says on an IGN podcast. They can say whatever the hell they want to say, its THEIR podcast. The rant was completely in line if not a little misguided. Damn one person rips on PA and the whole Internet goes up in flames.

[eastx]

And furthermore who gives a shit what an IGN editor says on an IGN podcast. They can say whatever the hell they want to say, its THEIR podcast.

Yeah, and if they want to talk mess about Penny Arcade, then Penny Arcade has every right to become offended and respond in some way. Don't see how you're missing that.

[cgarb84]

Yeah, and if they want to talk mess about Penny Arcade, then Penny Arcade has every right to become offended and respond in some way. Don't see how you're missing that.

WTF PA started talking shit about the AC reviews before anyone else started talking shit about PA. The rant on IGN was just a response to PA's comments. I am criticizing(?) PA's original comments on reviews, specifically the 1UP reviews. I don't give a shit what PA says from here on out.

[Kosh]

Dude, didn't you know, PA are like EF Hutton.


cgarb84 - 1

PA sheep - 0

[eastx]

Dude, didn't you know, PA are like EF Hutton.

cgarb84 - 1

PA sheep - 0

Kosh acting like an ass - several times in this thread

[Joon2324]

Just my two cents, but how do you guys pronounce these other "mar" words?

Market
Mars
Marble
Martyr
Marginal
Mar
March
Del Mar
Marsh
Marshmellow
The only exception to this would be Mary, but that is just Merry misspelled so it doesn't count. ;) Plus, Mario derives from the Latin word "Marius" which is pronounced with the Mars saying. So if you want to go with the saying names like the country it oringates from then that would be correct, and seeing how we get 56% of our language from latin, thats the way it is said.
Are you guys wrong? No, it's where you grow up and New Yorkans can never say anything correctly. ;). But technically speaking, you are pronouncing it wrong.

This sums it up nicely. I never noticed this transgression until I met people from the Northeast and Canada.

[redgopher]

Vanguards represent!

Where's the pic of David Shepard?

[tigerthecat]

not all people play games jackass. who cares if she never played a game! whats wrong with you? your two threads so far are jokes

um $$$ ur just a snoty ass noob who doesent know shit about shit so fuck off noob

[eastx]

um $$$ ur just a snoty ass noob who doesent know shit about shit so fuck off noob

Besides the fact that you're a potty mouth and devoid of capitalization and punctuation, you're listed as a CAG Newbie... Which makes you a noob, now doesn't it?

..

Ohhh, maybe you were just referring to his name.

[Jesse_Dylan]

I feel like I'm on the IGN boards all of a sudden. :(