Heavy Rain *trailer now out*

[NamPaehc]

Heavy Rain Trailer. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MP260in3ph4)

The Uncanny Valley is no more. At least that is what Quantic Dream's Guillaume de Fondaumière is saying... (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=31593)

And you see capturing emotions, not just movement, as a vitally important part of your games...

It's the next frontier to a certain degree. We've had this system in-house since April and it's been really beneficial for us to push this technique and our surrounding technologies further. Most of the efforts that we've put into creating these virtual actors are for our upcoming title on PlayStation 3 that we're currently developing with Sony.

I think when we showed The Casting everyone agreed it was nice and it really showed that there was a potential for creating virtual actors, but we're still at this frontier where we don't totally suspend disbelief. We still have this uncanny valley to bridge. But today, I can officially announce that there is no uncanny valley any more, not in real-time.

With our next project we're going to demonstrate with hundreds of characters that we can have extremely realistic characters that not only move like real actors but express themselves through facial animations and speech like real actors, and are extremely accurate to the actors they are portraying.We'll see... Some people say it can never be done, but these guys have been fairly bold in saying they were going to prove them wrong.

Here is the "The Casting" video mentioned in the interview. (http://www.gamevideos.com/video/id/3745)

[metaly]

I hope they're planning on debuting a new video soon to back up their claims. From what I remember of the E3 video, they were pretty deep into that valley.

Also, someone should get the word out that it's OK to make games that don't have incredibly lifelike characters. </jaded>

[CrimsonPaw]

I think we're still a way's off, the lips and eyes still don't have the human look to them. The Casting was an alright video but nothing that I would say is impressive; if that was a real actress I would have said she needed more emotion.

[VanillaGorilla]

Lips still look like absolute crap, which completely ruins the human look.

[Dr Mario Kart]

From what I remember of the E3 video, they were pretty deep into that valley.

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/7488/heavyrainty4.jpg

[Strell]

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/7488/heavyrainty4.jpg

LMFAO

God, that looks like something out of 4chan.

[Maklershed]

Yikes

[NamPaehc]

I think we're still a way's off, the lips and eyes still don't have the human look to them. The Casting was an alright video but nothing that I would say is impressive; if that was a real actress I would have said she needed more emotion.

The Casting is fairly old. I only linked to it for people who hadn't seen it yet and since it was mentioned in the interview when he spoke about showing the potential of realistic characters.

Since then according to the dev, they have improved their work.

I know Heavenly Sword and Uncharted had facial work, I wonder just how much more indept these guys are planning to be to achive their "extremely accurate" goals.

[TimPV3]

That video was from what, 2005?

Ah, good ole two-thousand-five.

[Vanigan]

Yep that video and screenshot is, way old. Not that I believe their claims, they really should have released a screenshot or movie. However, mocap, human animation and rendering technology has come quite a ways since 2005.

Also remember that anyone, even the most beautiful and graceful person can be made to look like a grotesque idiot if a freeze frame or picture is taken at the wrong moment. These pictures usually capture the split second when a person is going between facial expressions. The same is no different for digital humans as evidenced by this screenshot.

Also, like Indigo Prophecy and Resident Evil, the game is is broken up into many smaller areas, allowing them to pack in the details while not going into memory limits. So, if anything we know they will have quite a bit of detail in these scenes, the only question is whether they can pull it off.

What's interesting was that they did a very good job of digitizing the actress that plays the role in the game. She's really cute, with the same adorable slight accent and quirky smile. While her smile in real life doesn't look that awkward, she does have an interesting toothy smile.

As for the gameplay, what I think was a good sign was that the director of Indigo Prophecy actually wrote a postmortem clearly stating the problems with his own game. Of course, that doesn't mean they're fixed, but it's good nonetheless.

One thing indigo prophecy did really well was a slightly more freeform adventure game. It was still pretty linear, but instead of there being just one solution, the "puzzles" felt like events falling into place. You didn't have to do things in exact set orders.

[CoffeeEdge]

Total bullshit. The Uncanny Valley will never be overcome (for damn sure, not on this generation of consoles); it's practically impossible, by definition, to overcome it. The more realistic an artificial image is, the more it's flaws, however small, prevent it from being indistinguishable from reality.

I expect something along the lines of Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within, at best, with Quantic insisting that it's photorealistic. Should be good for a laugh.

More bullshit PS3 propaganda, nothing more. I wager that Sony put them up to making this statement.

[NamPaehc]

Vanigan, is that postmortem posted some where on the internet and do you have a link? I WAS playing through the game on my PS3 until I got to a part were it hangs, and then soon after Sony updated their BC list saying what I had just found out haha! Going to start over on my PS2 though soon.

And CoffeeEdge, I love how you just bristled like that. :D Always someone who gets so aggressive when people make statements like this. I remember when someone said Ratchet and Clank Future looked like a Pixar movie and someone else went off saying it couldn't be done (wasn't you was it?). The game DOES look like a Pixar movie, at least in a way. If you are comparing the character designs and enviroments and relating it to the 'Pixar style' at least in my mind.

I personally don't think the Uncanny Valley will be crossed any time soon. Though for me, developers making statements that they are at least trying to go it is encouraging.

[KingDox]

I still think real life like people in video games is still like 2 console gens away. I'm sure 10 years from now we'll have it more nailed down. Once we have better motion capture of people's faces it will get better. The face is what ruins it.

[CoffeeEdge]

Guys seriously, look at Beowulf. Hundreds of the most talented CG artists in the world, working for years, simply to produce a 2 hour movie (nothing like a fully interactive game), and they're still nowhere close.

Photorealistic CGI is not possible, case closed.

[metaly]

I hear that Source engine 2.0 will finally cross the uncanny valley, but that's only because it generates a 1:1 model of reality. Except with more bloom, obviously.

[Zoglog]

Guys seriously, look at Beowulf. Hundreds of the most talented CG artists in the world, working for years, simply to produce a 2 hour movie (nothing like a fully interactive game), and they're still nowhere close.

Photorealistic CGI is not possible, case closed.


http://features-temp.cgsociety.org/gallerycrits/199846/199846_1156997804_submedium.jpg

looks pretty photo real to me =p

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=3661085#post3661085

[metaly]

Photorealistic CG still images have been around for a while, it's motion that everyone is stuck on. If that digital actress started moving and talking, she'd probably give people nightmares.

Incidentally, how creeped out would you be if you discovered some Internet guy had made a photorealistic 3D model of your head?

[chakan]

Incidentally, how creeped out would you be if you discovered some Internet guy had made a photorealistic 3D model of your head?

Very.

[chodax]

LMFAO

God, that looks like something out of 4chan.

no u

[CoffeeEdge]

looks pretty photo real to me =p
Then you haven't looked at the hair or clothes very closely.

That image is older than time, seriously, and it gets brought up everytime there is a discussion regarding photorealism in CGI. Sorry, though, it's simply not true photorealism. Damn sure never fooled me.

[Thomas96]

Guys seriously, look at Beowulf. Hundreds of the most talented CG artists in the world, working for years, simply to produce a 2 hour movie (nothing like a fully interactive game), and they're still nowhere close.

Photorealistic CGI is not possible, case closed.



two words

Heavenly Sword...


-motion capture each scene with the actors. By motion capturing the facial expressions of an actor you get rid of that weirdness that we're seeing with the Heavy Rain initail photos.

[Strell]

two words

Heavenly Sword...


http://www.ps3lair.com/images/screenshots/games/large/HeavenlySword_0000_Layer6.jpg

HO-LEE SHIT

FOR A SECOND THERE I FORGOT I HAD A MONITOR IN FRONT OF ME

[Thomas96]

http://www.ps3lair.com/images/screenshots/games/large/HeavenlySword_0000_Layer6.jpg

HO-LEE SHIT

FOR A SECOND THERE I FORGOT I HAD A MONITOR IN FRONT OF ME


nice pic... play the game.

[Apossum]

Talking big, but nothing to back it up.

Anyway, decent writing is part of the uncanny valley too, so they shouldn't make any big proclamations just yet. ya know, after Inidigo Prophecy.. :lol:

[Chacrana]

nice pic... play the game.

but it sucks.

[InuFaye]

lol @ uncanny valley.
Im tired of realism, go the other way.

[Snake2715]

From the look of her huge ass eyes I swear I had seen this "Mary Smith" before...... hadn't she ran away from a wedding and claimed kidnapping?

[Thomas96]

but it sucks.



well.. that's your opinion. But the game has beautiful in game cut scenes due to the facial motion capture that Ninja Theory got from the voice actors. Ninja Theory may not get credit for it.. now. But when we look back, I think people are goin to realize that the techniques they used to get the motion capture for the scenes was revolutionary for gaming.

[mykevermin]

Ah, yes, we can't get realism at all, can we? Diminishing returns for advanced technology and all that.

Guess it's time to give up, go home, and enjoy playing the ol' black and white Game Boy. Life isn't going to get any sweeter than that. Hey Kwirk, what's happenin'? Let's move those blocks again tonight, eh?

[Chacrana]

well.. that's your opinion. But the game has beautiful in game cut scenes due to the facial motion capture that Ninja Theory got from the voice actors. Ninja Theory may not get credit for it.. now. But when we look back, I think people are goin to realize that the techniques they used to get the motion capture for the scenes was revolutionary for gaming.

Well that's your opinion.

The difference is that mine is correct.

More importantly, realism is boring.

[mykevermin]

It's a shame you're arguing over each other's heads. Thomas is elaborating about the mocap, voice acting, and cutscenes in the game, while your "it sucks," in response to "play the game," seems to suggest the gameplay sucks, and doesn't single out the cutscenes.

But, again, why am I bothering to get involved in an argument whose last point was "my opinion is correct and yours is not"?

[heavyd853]

2 rounds, bare E-knuckles, go!



...couldn't help it

[InuFaye]

More importantly, realism is boring.

Correct.

[ZenTrickster]

I don't mean to rain an anyone's parade here, but the argument for the Uncanny Valley goes WAAAY beyond just making physical features look life-like. It involves gettiing a cg model to emote well enough to make you believe that it's not just dead inside. Quantam Dream wants you to believe that it can make it's figures look realistic, not only from a detailed body figure, but from the way that you can see the emotion behind the eyes. They're trying to fool everyone that they no longer produce the lifeless cow eyes that are present in today's CG models (yes, even in Beowolf)

THAT'S the hurdle that needs leaping. And I still think that might be a ways off.

[CoffeeEdge]

I don't mean to rain an anyone's parade here, but...
Don't worry, you're not raining on anyone's parade, because no-one here is buying into this outrageous claim.

[The Mana Knight]

Two new Heavy Rain images:

http://www.totalvideogames.com/screenshots/Heavy_Rain_77298.jpg

http://www.totalvideogames.com/screenshots/Heavy_Rain_77297.jpg

http://www.totalvideogames.com/screens/Heavy_Rain_5475_77298_0.htm

Looks very impressive. :D

[CoffeeEdge]

Two new Heavy Rain images:

http://www.totalvideogames.com/screenshots/Heavy_Rain_77298.jpg

http://www.totalvideogames.com/screenshots/Heavy_Rain_77297.jpg

http://www.totalvideogames.com/screens/Heavy_Rain_5475_77298_0.htm

Looks very impressive. :D
So much for bridging the uncanny valley. Looks nice, but not even as good as FF:TSW. It still blatantly obvious that it's videogame CGI; it doesn't even require a second glance or a moment's consideration to tell that it's nothing close to reality. I'd think that anyone would instantly recognize it as CGI.

That really was a foolish claim for them to make, and I hope the receive the shaming that they deserve for making it, alongside the praise for what I'm sure will be a nice game overall.

[foltzie]

Two new Heavy Rain images:

http://www.totalvideogames.com/screenshots/Heavy_Rain_77298.jpg

http://www.totalvideogames.com/screenshots/Heavy_Rain_77297.jpg

http://www.totalvideogames.com/screens/Heavy_Rain_5475_77298_0.htm

Looks very impressive. :D

While are they looking at Starro?

[Maynard]

So much for bridging the uncanny valley. Looks nice, but not even as good as FF:TSW. It still blatantly obvious that it's videogame CGI; it doesn't even require a second glance or a moment's consideration to tell that it's nothing close to reality. I'd think that anyone would instantly recognize it as CGI.

That really was a foolish claim for them to make, and I hope the receive the shaming that they deserve for making it, alongside the praise for what I'm sure will be a nice game overall.

I just noticed this thread and those two new screen shots are beautifully done artistically. Until you can honestly know what it takes to make a model (and not a level in quake II) and try to make them look real I dont know if you should get so worked up. Also I showed those two screen shots to 5+ people and at first glance they thought it was a photo of a real person. I'm not saying that it is uncanny, but it certainly is pretty darn amazing for a character model. I would not say that it is blatantly obvious, that's sort of a ridiculous statement man.

[Maklershed]

Two new Heavy Rain images:

http://www.totalvideogames.com/screenshots/Heavy_Rain_77298.jpg

http://www.totalvideogames.com/screenshots/Heavy_Rain_77297.jpg

http://www.totalvideogames.com/screens/Heavy_Rain_5475_77298_0.htm

Looks very impressive. :D
Is there a preview video of this game available?

[elwood731]

I just noticed this thread and those two new screen shots are beautifully done artistically. Until you can honestly know what it takes to make a model (and not a level in quake II) and try to make them look real I dont know if you should get so worked up. Also I showed those two screen shots to 5+ people and at first glance they thought it was a photo of a real person. I'm not saying that it is uncanny, but it certainly is pretty darn amazing for a character model. I would not say that it is blatantly obvious, that's sort of a ridiculous statement man.
Agreed. Saying that some of these shots are "obvious" is silly posturing (from whom, I'm not so sure). Yes, someone very familiar with CG work can often spot fakes a mile away, but not the average person. I always think of the book Blink when I see something that stands out to me but not to those around me. I think we're very close to a day when it truly starts fooling a large number of people.

By the way, I never thought Beowulf was going for photorealism, but maybe I missed that point. It always seemed, like Polar Express, very grounded in a dream-state. But that may just be me.

[NamPaehc]

Is there a preview video of this game available?

Don't think they are in development of anything beyond setting up their tools. So no videos (guessing you meant gameplay) for a long while. :)

[CoffeeEdge]

Don't think they are in development of anything beyond setting up their tools. So no videos (guessing you meant gameplay) for a long while. :)
This game has been in development for two full years now, and it's scheduled for release this Fall. I'm pretty sure that they're further along in development than the "tools" stage.

Until you can honestly know what it takes to make a model (and not a level in quake II) and try to make them look real I dont know if you should get so worked up.
I know damn well what goes into making a 3D model. Even if I didn't, I'd still have the right to find it insulting that Quantic Dream wants us to believe that this game bridges the Uncanny Valley.

Also I showed those two screen shots to 5+ people and at first glance they thought it was a photo of a real person.
I showed it to four and they all were able to easily tell it was CGI. The eyes were the biggest giveaway, followed by the 2D eyebrows, and the blurry skin texture, which also lacks things like visibly deep pores, and lastly, the lighting.

I'm not saying that it is uncanny, but it certainly is pretty darn amazing for a character model.
Uh, are you trying to make a counter-point here? Because if so, that's not necessary. I said that it "looks nice," and that I'm sure it will be "a nice game overall." I don't think that this close up is necessarily better than any of the other best looking things I've seen this gen, though.

I would not say that it is blatantly obvious, that's sort of a ridiculous statement man.
I think it's ridiculous to be fooled by it. It's a great videogame character model, but it's still galaxies away from reality. The flaws are just too many.


Remember, the Uncanny Valley refers to the tiny flaws that give away a facsimile of a person as being a facsimile. The more realistic a human facsimile, the more the tiny details give it away, and the tinier the noticible flaws become. This model, like all other artistic attempts to simulate a person, has many details that make it instantly obvious to the trained eye. Once you see it in motion, it will be all but instant for anyone to realize that it's fake.

[VanillaGorilla]

I can just imagine the sequel to Parappa on PS3 with sweet graphics like these. Imagine it, the Uncanny Valley for Umjammer Lammy.

:-#

[NamPaehc]

This game has been in development for two full years now, and it's scheduled for release this Fall. I'm pretty sure that they're further along in development than the "tools" stage.
Development time means nothing. *cough*DukeNukum*cough*

The engine from last I read is still being developed post the exclusive deal. A lot of the statements about release time were made prior to the announcement and refocusing.

There is content in many shapes and forms (motion capture should be underway now or soon- they just got the tools at the end of last year), but I still doubt there is anything resembling gameplay that will be showed any time soon.

[CoffeeEdge]

There is content in many shapes and forms (motion capture should be underway now or soon- they just got the tools at the end of last year), but I still doubt there is anything resembling gameplay that will be showed any time soon.
So you work at Quantic Dream I take it. You sure are acting like it, the way you're talking as though you know the detailed status of everything there.

[NamPaehc]

So you work at Quantic Dream I take it. You sure are acting like it, the way you're talking as though you know the detailed status of everything there.

I wish I was.

But, like I said I read all that in different places.

Here is one link I felt like looking up really quickly about the motion capture purchase. (http://ps3.qj.net/Quantic-Dream-s-PS3-exclusive-gets-advanced-motion-capture-tech/pg/49/aid/108158)

Just read it again and it says they need about 4 months of motion capturing.

[Vanigan]

From what I heard in small reports, the gameplay is similar to Indigo Prophecy, but that they were working on a different control scheme so that the game wouldn't be so much like Simon or Track and Field.

The key thing they mentioned was that, like IP. It uses a lot of very small areas with high detail.

Also, remember that a lot of the development would have been preproduction, shifting technology and game styles.

We also know for sure that they started development on the 360 or PC. It's likely they had to switch development, and production once they made the move. Then, it's also likely to moved to the 360 and high end PC development. Then Sony found them. Quantic probably needed access to a better mocap system along with more funding at that point, so they signed with Sony when they got the chance.

[CoffeeEdge]

Just read it again and it says they need about 4 months of motion capturing.
And you think that they only do one task at a time during game development?

Quantic probably needed access to a better mocap system
I'd think they'd use their own, seeing as how they have a world-class mocap studio. Quantic's main source of revenue is renting out their mocap facilities (because it's not like anyone actually buys their overwrought games).

[Vanigan]

They didn't have it back then, that's why they hooked up with Sony. I suspect that these recent games like Heavenly Sword and Uncharted are using the new mocap facility, or used it at some point, in the Quantic Dream facilities.

[NamPaehc]

And you think that they only do one task at a time during game development?

:roll:

Your e-dick is sooo much bigger then mine.

[NamPaehc]

Here is a link to video from those recent screen shots shown, taken from their latest tech demo "the face". (http://gamersyde.com/stream_5949_en.html)

[heavyd853]

Interesting. I found the eye movements very believable.

[cochesecochese]

Damn, that is pretty impressive. When I see that video and those images I can't help but think that they haven't even hit the uncanny valley yet and are still quite a ways from coming into contact with it, nevermind crossing it.

All in all amazing work. This is what the 'next gen' is all about.

[BREVITY]

This game looks awesome. I cant believe we still dont know all that much about the game though.

[foltzie]

Two new Heavy Rain images:

http://www.totalvideogames.com/screenshots/Heavy_Rain_77298.jpg

http://www.totalvideogames.com/screenshots/Heavy_Rain_77297.jpg

http://www.totalvideogames.com/screens/Heavy_Rain_5475_77298_0.htm

Looks very impressive. :D

Why are they looking at Staro?

[007]

I'm a big fan of Quantic Dream and all, but I sincerely wish they'd hurry up and cross the uncanny valley already so they can move ahead on more important projects, like getting off their ass and finally giving me Omikron 2.

[CoffeeEdge]

I'm a big fan of Quantic Dream and all, but I sincerely wish they'd hurry up and cross the uncanny valley already so they can move ahead on more important projects, like getting off their ass and finally giving me Omikron 2.
Uh, hate to tell you this, but they're never going to get past the Uncanny Valley, nor is anyone else. So if they were waiting to do that before moving on to other projects, then they'd never get anything else done.

[Cyb3-rr]

Uh, hate to tell you this, but they're never going to get past the Uncanny Valley, nor is anyone else. So if they were waiting to do that before moving on to other projects, then they'd never get anything else done.

One question: Why do you believe that there is a ceiling to this? An unbreakable wall that humans can never hope to get past? Is this a religion to you? You have "faith" that it will never happen?

Hilarious.

[CoffeeEdge]

One question: Why do you believe that there is a ceiling to this? An unbreakable wall that humans can never hope to get past? Is this a religion to you? You have "faith" that it will never happen?

Hilarious.
The art world has been trying to perfectly recreate reality for centuries.

It's just never going to happen.

Again, it's practically inherent in the definition of the term. The closer you get to perfect realism, the more the tiny flaws take away from it. And since nothing is ever perfect, taa daa, there will never be perfectly realistic CGI, ESPECIALLY not in real-time videogames (because player input is unpredictable, and characters can be made to do things that break the illusion).

[Furashu]

yeah we wont get tricked for a while...

when coffeeedge is convinced every critic in the world will be too :D

there would be so much work put into these things theyd have to combine a few hundred different engines to control every little thing.

think about how much changes between your emotions

id say 15 more years and well have something good but not 100%

[CoffeeEdge]

The reason that I'm so cynical (or as I like to consider it, realistic) about all this crap regarding boasts of "near-photorealistic" CGI, as well as people who actually agree that any of these claims are anywhere near true, is rooted in history.

Before and shortly after it's release, there were many people who honestly believed that Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within, was almost perfectly photorealistic. Seven years later, anyone claiming this would be laughed at. A few years later, there were people who thought that The Polar Express would be photorealistic. Upon actually seeing the film though, the flaws are appearant to anyone. Now, with Beowulf, again, there were people claiming that it was photorealistic, when it is far from it (weightless characters, some sub-par faces here and there, etc, awful horse animation, et cetera). Years from now, we'll be laughing to think that we ever thought Beowulf was anywhere near close to photorealistic.

It happens in games, even worse. Surely you all remember people freaking out about how, for instance, Tomb Raider looked "SO REAL", right? And then Goldeneye after that, and then Shenmue after that, and then Metal Gear Solid 3 after that, and then Heavenly Sword and Heavy Rain today.

A few years from now, you'll all be laughing to think that you were ever so naive as to believe that Heavy Rain was anywhere near anything that could even be called "photorealistic" even at a gross stretch. You'll kick yourselves for thinking that this game could even see the Uncanny Valley off on the horizon.

If you guys don't have the foresight to understand this, then you're gullible and stupid, and that's not my problem.

[CoffeeEdge]

but this is a lie.
...cake?

[NamPaehc]

FF Dev mentioned the Uncanny Valley HERE. (http://www.joystiq.com/2008/02/22/gdc08-final-fantasy-beautiful-men-and-fighting-the-uncanny-va/) He didn't go as far as to say they solved the issue in regards to their cut scenes but mentions a mix of realism and style to help blur the line.

Eventually, the discussion moved on to the high quality graphics that Square Enix has been able to produce in its pre-rendered movies. Asked how the team copes with "the uncanny valley problem," Kamikokuryo noted that it's something everyone on the team is constantly thinking about. "In terms of the uncanny valley, that is something we have to fight against. We can't go there -- that's basically how we feel about it. For all the things we create, many of the section creators get together and we make adjustments so this uncanny valley phenomenon doesn't happen. We don't usually use that phrase, because all the staff has this in mind while we do our work."

As the series progresses forward to more powerful hardware, Kamikokuryo noted that "we need to pursue something more realistic." They want to keep the "uniqueness of Testuya Nomura," but wanted to draw upon real-life inspirations. He noted the series' inspirations from contemporary design and fashion, and how they make playing the game more engrossing and "even more entertaining."

Stylization is important, of course. "For example, we want to emphasize coolness and cuteness through stylization. If you look at the characters from Disney or Pixar, they're not trying to make it too real. But the audience can get the theme from those films more directly due to the stylization." The team is constantly struggling between realism and a more stylized look. "We're trying to create something at the edge of the uncanny valley. Indeed, we feel some tension there."

[NamPaehc]

I didn't want to guess this, because of all the rumors going around. But "Surfer Girl" went a head and did it so I'll say it was her idea. (http://softrockhallelujah.blogspot.com/2008/02/well-start-knocking-door-to-door-and.html) :lol:

She seems to think that the "Speechless" game "The BBC Reporter" (quoted below) saw was Heavy Rain.


I don't mean to be a tease - all I can say is that I was left speechless. If the footage I was shown truly is "in game", as told to me by the Sony PR people, then we could be on the brink of a step change in what games consoles are capable of in terms of story-telling and immersion.I am fairly certain this is Quantic Dream's Heavy Rain. The characters are full of idiosyncrasies, they may hesitate before the speak, and most importantly, they look and behave in a realistic, convincing manner unlike any other that I have seen in a game. On top of this, the characters (and the game itself) are so well-written, there is a discernible depth that will create an attachment from the player far greater than the typical cardboard avatar. Their trailer uses a bunch of in-game footage (what they have is not far off at all from what has been previously seen). Despite all of this, if you aren't a fan of Quantic Dream's previous output, go elsewhere. But if you treasure the interactive narrative and have a PlayStation 3, this is more up your alley.

[CoffeeEdge]

I didn't want to guess this, because of all the rumors going around. But "Surfer Girl" went a head and did it so I'll say it was her idea. (http://softrockhallelujah.blogspot.com/2008/02/well-start-knocking-door-to-door-and.html) :lol:

She seems to think that the "Speechless" game "The BBC Reporter" (quoted below) saw was Heavy Rain.

Even though I'm not really sold on Heavy Rain at all, I have no doubt that it's the kind of game that's going to blow away the mainstream non-gaming media. I'm still not impressed.

[NamPaehc]

You're still not impressed because they haven't done anything to try to impress you yet. :lol:

All the info we have is basically second hand.

[CoffeeEdge]

You're still not impressed because they haven't done anything to try to impress you yet. :lol:

All the info we have is basically second hand.

Except for that trailer with the really fake looking eyes, that they were trying to pass off as photorealistic.

[NamPaehc]

Except for that trailer with the really fake looking eyes, that they were trying to pass off as photorealistic.

That was a pre alpha build.

[CoffeeEdge]

That was a pre alpha build.

Where did you see that? According to what you posted just a little while ago, that's from their "latest tech demo."

Just curious, but do you actually believe their claims?

[NamPaehc]

Where did you see that? According to what you posted just a little while ago, that's from their "latest tech demo."

Just curious, but do you actually believe their claims?

Oh okay, you wrote trailer. I thought you meant the video from back in the day which is a tech demo too but some do refer to it as a trailer. You meant the new "tech demo". Tech demos don't show much of what you get in the final product either though.

I'm not going to say they can do what they say, or that they can't, until I see evidence. To do so at this point in time, for either view, is foolish.

I mean, why should I believe? They haven't shown anything yet. Why shouldn't I believe? Games and technology are advancing greatly. I'm open minded and the tidbits of info have me interested. Not only interested but excited about the potential for future games and the industry.

Maybe it doesn't happen this time around, it could take years like suggested in this thread. But the investments are being made which hopefully push things up to a whole new tier and that is all I want.

[CoffeeEdge]

I'm not going to say they can do what they say, or that they can't, until I see evidence. To do so at this point in time, for either view, is foolish.

I mean, why should I believe? They haven't shown anything yet. Why shouldn't I believe? Games and technology are advancing greatly.

Okay, if the common sense that the PS3 is not capable of rendering something better-looking than Beowulf in real-time isn't proof enough, then I guess I can't help you.

[NamPaehc]

/Adds another log to the fire. (http://kotaku.com/366150/new-heavy-rain-details-spilled-lapped-up)


http://kotaku.com/assets/resources/2008/03/heavyrainchief.jpg

While most of us in North America don't read the Dutch magazine Chief, one of our readers abroad pointed out that they'd run a major exclusive on upcoming Quantic Dream/Sony title Heavy Rain. (You know Quantic Dream as the company behind Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy, and you know Heavy Rain from my fanboy obsession).

Reader Saimon was kind enough to translate some of the more enticing statements about the title made by Quantic Dream's founder David Cage. And we were kind enough to copy and paste the translations after the jump.

http://kotaku.com/assets/resources/2008/03/HeavyRainchief1.jpg

On Locations:
"I don't want to do a big free-roaming city like GTA, because the flow of the story will then be hard to control. Nevertheless, I do want to incorporate big sets, with a crowd, heavy populated areas like a mall and a subway are going to be in there. Of course, the gameplay has got to make use of that aspect too."

On Graphics:
"People will be surprised. Internal (Sony's) feedback on graphics has been great. This is going to be a truly next-gen game. But still, we want to do something unique with the graphics, going beyond just making the most photorealistic world we can."

On Gameplay:
"With the release of Fahrenheit, we gave the adventure genre a new grammar. We brought new ways into the genre, new words if you want to see it like that, a new vocabulaire. With Heavy Rain, where going to expand on that same grammar."

On Story:
"Heavy Rain is about normal people that have landed in extraordinary situations. I wanted a much more personal story. The first thing that came to my mind, as a father of two little boys, was that the main theme should simply be a father's love for his son. This is not a game about saving the princess or the world. Its purely about a father's love."

"The main story will revolve around 4 different characters, and we're putting the spotlight on their perceptions. The question 'what is good and what is evil' is the key here, that will be just a matter of viewpoint...I believe heavily in moral choices, I'm going to use them A LOT. They're not about being good or bad, but about finding the right balance."

So far, so good. Thanks to Saimon for all the hard work on this one.

[panasonic]

is that the graphics? cartoon panel /cellshade/ sin city?

[heavyd853]

I'd imagine those are storyboard drawings.

[NamPaehc]

I'd imagine those are storyboard drawings.

Right, that is what I would wager too. I think the cover image could be the character from the new Golden Axe.

[NamPaehc]

No new Heavy Rain news, other then whispers that it might have been shown behind closed doors (and NDA's). Any maybe it might show up at Leipzig.

Looking at the official Sony press release, first party PlayStation 3 titles that were shown at E3 are listed in the release. One PlayStation 3 title from the press release that has not had coverage is Heavy Rain. Is Heavy Rain being shown behind closed doors by Sony? If so, the press would likely have to had signed an NDA to keep quiet about the game. If anything, the game will probably be fully unveiled at the Leipzig Games Convention next month.
**UPDATE**

The game WAS shown and seemed to impress those who saw it: (http://twitter.com/ncroal)

Heavy Rain demo next. Alas, it is under NDA, so no identifying details will be tweeted

Heavy Rain wowed the crowd. Hate to be a tease, but we can't say more other than if you liked Indigo Prophecy, you'll *love* this.All we get since there was a NDA but glad to hear at least something about it.

[CoffeeEdge]

The game WAS shown and seemed to impress those who saw it: (http://twitter.com/ncroal)
N'gai Croal is a son of a bitch.

[Thomas96]

I thought this game was going to be cancelled. Nice to see its back, gosh, they shoud have shown something at E3. Hell just let the devs come and say "hey, we're still working on it" going to be great.

[Vanigan]

I loved the first half of Indigo Prophecy, it was only after things got way too weird that I found it unbearable.

And of course, I hated the controls scheme, or the complete lack of one, but the dynamic story gameplay really worked for me and kept me playing.

Heck, the gameplay and story wasn't even all the dynamic as things progressed pretty linearly. But I still loved how all the little things you did in different orders were still handled really well.

[imascrub]

Heavy Rain wowed the crowd. Hate to be a tease, but we can't say more other than if you liked Indigo Prophecy, you'll *love* this.

nice...I did love me some Fahrenheit action, though I agree it got way weird.

[NamPaehc]

I never finished it. Was playing via the PS3 but it locks up at a certain point. Haven't had the urge to go back and use my PS2 to get to that point again, but I was enjoying it.

[007]

QuanticDream is one of my preferred 'smaller' developers. Loved everything they put out... it's stuff that, even when it's not great, it's still REALLY interesting. Holds up nicely.

... and I've said it before: as soon as this is done, I want my damn sequel to Omikron that I've been waiting on since 2000. It always irks me that I see them billed as 'the developers of Indigo Prophecy' and neglect to mention Omikron. It has faults, but it's a really, really great game. In my top 3, for certain.

[NamPaehc]

QuanticDream is one of my preferred 'smaller' developers. Loved everything they put out... it's stuff that, even when it's not great, it's still REALLY interesting. Holds up nicely.

... and I've said it before: as soon as this is done, I want my damn sequel to Omikron that I've been waiting on since 2000. It always irks me that I see them billed as 'the developers of Indigo Prophecy' and neglect to mention Omikron. It has faults, but it's a really, really great game. In my top 3, for certain.

Omikron had some good ideas but they just didn't execute it very well. I have it here, been wanting to pop it back in and try again. But I think about the horrible combat and other issues and that keeps me away. I don't know, maybe I'll give it another go and see how it feels now.

[Vanigan]

I wonder if there'll be sex scenes in the Euro version of Heavy Rain. ;) :P

The scenes in Indigo Prophecy Euro version were, interesting. Only one really helped with characterization. Otherwise, the scenes didn't add much to anything. On the other hand, had they worked it more into the psyche system it would have been more useful. If they can't, well it's best to cut it, there's plenty of other ways to create connections between characters.

[CoffeeEdge]

Omikron had some good ideas but they just didn't execute it very well. I have it here, been wanting to pop it back in and try again. But I think about the horrible combat and other issues and that keeps me away. I don't know, maybe I'll give it another go and see how it feels now.

I definitely think that Quantic Dream's presentation and storytelling abilities vastly exceed their gameplay execution abilities. Their reach exceeds their grasp, in a lot more ways than their fans might like to admit.

I do still love Omikron and Fahrenheit, though, especially Omikron.

[Vanigan]

Um, I'm a fan and their interface and action "gameplay" weren't just crap. It was crap eaten and crapped out again.

However, the adventure gameplay was spot on, but anything involving combat, intense moments devolved into a simon says routine that was horrible.

[crunchb3rry]

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/7488/heavyrainty4.jpg

I'd hit it.

[crunchb3rry]

I loved the first half of Indigo Prophecy, it was only after things got way too weird that I found it unbearable.


Yeah, the twist at the end pretty much porked what was a fairly awesome plot up until that point. The moment in the beginning was great, where you had to cover up your own crime, but it didn't happen again. That was fun as hell. I reset the game and tried so many different ways just to experiment.

[Maklershed]

"This is a game people will be talking about because it will impress them." - N'Gai Croal

[coolz481]

N'Gai and some chick from AOL were on the latest *3-hour* 1upyours podcast and both named 'Heavy Rain' in their top 3 games of the show. They of course didn't mention any details beyond what's in this thread but it sounded as if more information was coming really soon. Sort of off-topic, but didn't anyone catch if Naughty Dog was showing anything at the show? They seemed MIA to me.

[Vanigan]

Well, Naughty Dog is probably still on preproduction for their next game, so there won't be much to show. Naughty Dog isn't a two games at a time studio like Insomniac is.

Hmm... what's the next Sony specific event or convention they attend? Tokyo Game Show? Ah, wait, there it is: The next convention is Leipzig Games Convention in August around the 20th. That seems like the perfect time and place to debut Heavy Rain since it is a SCEE game.

Anyone know if they've hired the same composer from Indigo Prophecy? The character themes composed by that well known movie composer pretty much made the game for me.

We can be pretty sure the game isn't out this year.

[NamPaehc]

No Naughty Dog, or Team Ico far as I can tell.

[CoffeeEdge]

"This is a game people will be talking about because it will impress them." - N'Gai Croal

Shouldn't he be busy bitching about the stereotypical African-American character in Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy?

[Vanigan]

Shouldn't he be busy bitching about the stereotypical African-American character in Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy?

Shouldn't you actually read and understand his statements and arguments in full before making statements like this?

I mean, clearly you haven't actually read his entire comments on the whole RE5 issue if you're going to say things like this.

[CoffeeEdge]

Shouldn't you actually read and understand his statements and arguments in full before making statements like this?

I mean, clearly you haven't actually read his entire comments on the whole RE5 issue if you're going to say things like this.
I'm sorry, but I just can't stand him. I think that he tries to use his race the same way some girl gamers/geeks use their gender: to get attention. And that's unfortunate.

[Maklershed]

Shouldn't he be busy bitching about the stereotypical African-American character in Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy?

Speaking of this, I noticed in the RE5 demo during the 360 conference that there was only one black zombie. I wonder if that's how it always was or if some of the NPCs were changed just because of the mini-uproar caused by N'Gai.

[NamPaehc]

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/6016/sotjk3.jpg



A few new tidbits:

Some print media (http://buttonmasher.co.nz/2008/07/20/disappointed-by-e3-wait-a-month/) were given a private preview screening of Heavy Rain at E3. The developers (Quantic Dream) were also present at the Sony briefing and while they weren’t able to talk about Heavy Rain at E3 outside of the private screening they did hint at more open access to information about the game at GC.

More teasing. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/technology/2008/07/is_the_mystery_game_revealed.html)

A reader of the blog - Kyle Barrett - has emailed to ask if a mystery game I had teased people with a few months ago had finally been revealed at Sony's E3 press conference.

At the time I wrote:

If the footage I was shown truly is "in game", as told to me by the Sony PR people, then we could be on the brink of a step change in what games consoles are capable of in terms of story-telling and immersion.

So, sat in the audience in the Shrine Auditorium in Los Angeles at the Sony briefing I was really looking forward to seeing everyone's reaction to the game.

As the briefing wore on I was beginning to wonder if it would ever appear.

But then Sony executive Jack Tretton said: "We have one final thing to show you."

And I thought: This is it. This is the big reveal; finally I can be unburdened with this secret.

And on the big screen MAG appeared - the massively multiplayer online FPS game.

As it turned out: this was one of the games I had been shown some months before but under strict instruction I was not to write about it.

But this was not the game I was referring to. It still hasn't been shown publicly.

And so I still can't talk about it. Or even tell you what it's called. In fact when I referred to it in passing and without detail in front of a BBC colleague this week, the Sony PR man drew a sharp intake of breath and shot me a withering look.

Some of you might be thinking the game is pure vapourware. But I promise you it's real.

[Vanigan]

Yet another sign that E3 is dwindling when, despite the loss of FF13 at E3, they wait until GC to unveil the bombshell that Heavy Rain sounds like it'll be. Instead they show a crappy render target movie of MAG?

How awesome would it have been had they had music that was reminiscent of Indigo Prophecy flood the speaker system, then the eyes from the teaser shot comes on screen, then the camera pans back to show the whole scene and the character going through the gameplay, all in real-time.

On the other hand, as others have said already, Heavy Rain is a SCE Europe based game, so they would be more inclined to show it off at Leipzig Games Convention, which is in late August. That's coming up quickly.

[CoffeeEdge]

NamPaehc, read the comments in that blog post. He's not talking about Heavy Rain:

@ALL The game was NOT Heavy Rain. I promise you it is not that title.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/technology/2008/07/is_the_mystery_game_revealed.html#comment16

And don't try to pull a fast one by saying "Oh, he's just hinting that Heavy Rain isn't the game's finalized name," but if he meant that, he would have written "I promise you that is not the title," instead of "I promise you it is not that title."

[elwood731]

And don't try to pull a fast one by saying "Oh, he's just hinting that Heavy Rain isn't the game's finalized name," but if he meant that, he would have written "I promise you that is not the title," instead of "I promise you it is not that title."

I think it's more likely he would just ignore such questions entirely. He also noted the game in question has never been seen or announced, which rules Heavy Rain out. Who knows what game it is. Seems weird that they're keeping it so tight to their chests when it sounds like a potential system seller. Maybe it's still years from release.

[CoffeeEdge]

I think it's more likely he would just ignore such questions entirely. He also noted the game in question has never been seen or announced, which rules Heavy Rain out. Who knows what game it is. Seems weird that they're keeping it so tight to their chests when it sounds like a potential system seller. Maybe it's still years from release.

Or maybe this guy is a retard and doesn't even know what the hell he was shown, and is just trolling for blog hits.

[elwood731]

Or maybe this guy is a retard and doesn't even know what the hell he was shown, and is just trolling for blog hits.

Maybe. But the BBC News is generally very well respected and has high journalistic ethics. I am going to give someone writing for them the benefit of the doubt that they're not just lying. Though, I wouldn't rule out that in the end most are disappointed by the mystery game. Hype tends to leave everyone unsatisfied.

[NamPaehc]

The BBC game was mentioned before and they said it wasn't Heavy Rain. Looks like it is the same thing this time around.

Anyway here is a MORE teasing (http://whatifgaming.com/whatifgaming-e308-closed-door-presentations-infamous-gameplay-and-heavy-rain) of what when on in the infamous "Meeting Room #504". Bloggers are loving all this attention they are getting by posting "I can't say anything!" huh?

Outside just momentarily before eating our sandwiches, we ask the man standing with 2 big boxes in front of us what will be showing to this severely limited and exclusive closed door event held by SCEA. He replies, “I just have inFamous and Heavy Rain in these boxes here. Just waiting for them to open it up.”

We quickly finish up our sandwiches. Afterwards, the door opens for the attendees. Everyone specially invited gathers. The main gameplay in Heavy Rain is heart-trenching. The scene shown is of a garage quarrel. There’s a ton of interactivity and unmatched presence of this game that leaves hearts pounding. We really can’t divulge any specific details, but that general scene synopsis should be enough.

As for some video, we did manage to get our hands on a SHORT clip of gameplay before NDA’s were signed…we mean short. Like 5 seconds, but hey that’s something right? Unfortunately, no access to release it. Also I’ve been speaking to Sony PR, and it seems Heavy Rain is making a confirmed appearance at Leipzig. Heavy Rain wasn’t technically a “part” of E3, but it was definitely there and we basically can’t say anything more than that.

[Vanigan]

So, I wonder if they're working on two games with the same technology then? Wasn't Quantic Dream working on something else like Omikron 2? Hm... what else does Sony have up their sleeve?

[NamPaehc]

New interview with Quantic Dream's Founder. (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3744/dreaming_of_a_new_day_heavy_.php) Over games/their company in general.

[Vanigan]

Reading that reminded me of one of my best video game experiences, which is basically the first few scenes in Indigo Prophecy with the diner and bathroom murder. There were all sorts of little details and character details and so many ways it could play out that would then affect things later on in the game.

They'd catch the player on little details ignored in other games that make perfect since the world the game. Like when finally trying to exit the diner, you might get caught up and noticed if you forget to pay the bill before you leave. And even the process of getting away from the area in general affects the game in a little way if you try to leave by taxi or subway. It never changed the big story overall, but the differences allowed for enough of a change that many people played very differently depending on the type of person they were.

[NamPaehc]

New Heavy Rain pics. (http://spilzonen.dk/x/news/21374/)

(http://spilzonen.dk/images/dynamic/archive/126915.jpg) http://spilzonen.dk/scripts/image.asp?img=/images/dynamic/archive/126915.jpg&width=200&upsize=0&magnify=1&cache=1&sharpen=0 (http://spilzonen.dk/images/dynamic/archive/126915.jpg)http://spilzonen.dk/scripts/image.asp?img=/images/dynamic/archive/126916.jpg&width=200&upsize=0&magnify=1&cache=1&sharpen=0 (http://spilzonen.dk/images/dynamic/archive/126916.jpg)http://spilzonen.dk/scripts/image.asp?img=/images/dynamic/archive/126917.jpg&width=400&upsize=0&magnify=1&cache=1&sharpen=0 (http://spilzonen.dk/images/dynamic/archive/126917.jpg)

[CoffeeEdge]

Okay, that looks really really great, but I think we can finally put this "conquering the Uncanny Valley" nonsense behind us now. For good.

[dallow]

I want to marry her. :oops:

[BREVITY]

Looks good but I think the hair doesnt look wet and the face still looks plastic to me. The eyes are sharp though.

[NamPaehc]

Okay, that looks really really great, but I think we can finally put this "conquering the Uncanny Valley" nonsense behind us now. For good.

That is about as good as it gets coming from CoffeeEdge people! :applause:

Though, I think we still need to see it in motion. Those could be doctored up.

[mykevermin]

Looks like she found Ryo Hazuki's jacket at a pawn shop.

[CoffeeEdge]

That is about as good as it gets coming from CoffeeEdge people! :applause:

What? Shit, dude, I deserve to be gloating the hell over anyone who actually believed Quantic's insane claims, but I'll be subtle here. I am vindicated, regardless.

[dallow]

Hey guys, CoffedEdge is posting!

[CoffeeEdge]

Hey guys, CoffedEdge is posting!

Hey guys, dallow is making shitty attempts at flamebaiting.

Leave that to the pros, son.

[CrimsonPaw]

Looks better than that first video clip. Don't get me wrong, it looked good, but the chick's eyes were all jacked up and looked lifeless. I'm interested to see what the actual gameplay is.

[dallow]

Hey guys, dallow is making shitty attempts at flamebaiting.

Leave that to the pros, son.I do.
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4709713&postcount=114

[CoffeeEdge]

I do.
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4709713&postcount=114

You know what thi remalffartandbutts.

[NamPaehc]

A few more, click to enlarge.



http://spilzonen.dk/images/dynamic/screenshots/1037311.jpg (http://spilzonen.dk/images/dynamic/screenshots/1037311.jpg)
http://spilzonen.dk/images/dynamic/screenshots/1037315.jpg (http://spilzonen.dk/images/dynamic/screenshots/1037315.jpg)
http://spilzonen.dk/images/dynamic/screenshots/1037314.jpg (http://spilzonen.dk/images/dynamic/screenshots/1037314.jpg)

[CoffeeEdge]

Still great, but top-to-bottom, each of those screens got more videogame-y than the last.

I wish they'd explain how the hell it plays like...

[dallow]

Haven't played Indigo Prophecy or Farenheit?

[CoffeeEdge]

Haven't played Indigo Prophecy or Farenheit?

Of course I have. But it didn't have motorcycles!

But by god, I hope it doesn't play like Fahrenheit...

From what I've seen, it sounds like they've been saying it plays pretty differently from Fahrenheit.

[dallow]

I'm hoping it won't be a QTE-fest as well.

[NamPaehc]

We've got footage! (http://www.ripten.com/2008/08/09/new-heavy-rain-footage/)

Buried in there, in low res, sandwiched between some behind the scenes footage... in french... haha.

[Blackout]

Indigo Prophecy is one of my favorite games/ If they can make the WHOLE GAME great and not have a botched ending I will be in heaven.

[Vanigan]

I think someone already said somewhere that David Cage plans to not have much, if any, supernatural elements in the game this time around and focus on character instead of Matrix fights.

In prior interviews, he did sound like he knew what went wrong with Indigo Prophecy too, as he expresses regret over adding too many villains.

My main concern is actually the controls. The adventure parts of the game controlled fine, but the action devolved into a game of electronic Simon (a matching game).

[NamPaehc]

Hey Dallow, since they put that kid's face onto the computer in that video, that could mean that the woman is real so you can marry here haha.

[Blackout]

I think someone already said somewhere that David Cage plans to not have much, if any, supernatural elements in the game this time around and focus on character instead of Matrix fights.

In prior interviews, he did sound like he knew what went wrong with Indigo Prophecy too, as he expresses regret over adding too many villains.

My main concern is actually the controls. The adventure parts of the game controlled fine, but the action devolved into a game of electronic Simon (a matching game).


Didn't it have something to do with time constraints? The last part of the game was like a big WTF that felt like they pulled it out of their ass or something.

[dallow]

Hey Dallow, since they put that kid's face onto the computer in that video, that could mean that the woman is real so you can marry here haha.
Dang, you're right!
Must find her!

[dpatel]

There have been many games that have had very life-like characters without having photorealistic graphics. To me, it's more than just about graphics. For example, I feel the MGS series does a very good job at bringing characters to life. Graphics are definitely not photorealistic, but their superb animation, voice acting, and dialog really help. I also like the little moments when the characters exchange in meaningless banter, which, to me, helps make them appear more than just video game characters (as long as the banter is not excessive). Little things like that all combine together into one package to create a life-like character. With that said, I felt Indigo Prophecy did a good job at creating life-like characters (despite the lack of photorealistic graphics), so I am definitely looking forward to what they can do with more years of experience under their belt and superior hardware.

Total bullshit. The Uncanny Valley will never be overcome (for damn sure, not on this generation of consoles);

I'll agree the statement by QD is far from true and we won't overcome the Uncanny Valley anytime soon, but I think it's foolish to think something will never be overcome when it comes to technology. Your post below shows how graphics are becoming better and better as time goes on, so I don't see why we wouldn't eventually overcome the Uncanny Valley. The reason the claims that movies like: Final Fantasy, Polar Express, etc. look photorealistic are laughable is because something else comes along a few years later that exceeds it. Meaning we are only getting closer and closer to photorealism.

The reason that I'm so cynical (or as I like to consider it, realistic) about all this crap regarding boasts of "near-photorealistic" CGI, as well as people who actually agree that any of these claims are anywhere near true, is rooted in history.

Before and shortly after it's release, there were many people who honestly believed that Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within, was almost perfectly photorealistic. Seven years later, anyone claiming this would be laughed at. A few years later, there were people who thought that The Polar Express would be photorealistic. Upon actually seeing the film though, the flaws are appearant to anyone. Now, with Beowulf, again, there were people claiming that it was photorealistic, when it is far from it (weightless characters, some sub-par faces here and there, etc, awful horse animation, et cetera). Years from now, we'll be laughing to think that we ever thought Beowulf was anywhere near close to photorealistic.

It happens in games, even worse. Surely you all remember people freaking out about how, for instance, Tomb Raider looked "SO REAL", right? And then Goldeneye after that, and then Shenmue after that, and then Metal Gear Solid 3 after that, and then Heavenly Sword and Heavy Rain today.

A few years from now, you'll all be laughing to think that you were ever so naive as to believe that Heavy Rain was anywhere near anything that could even be called "photorealistic" even at a gross stretch. You'll kick yourselves for thinking that this game could even see the Uncanny Valley off on the horizon.

If you guys don't have the foresight to understand this, then you're gullible and stupid, and that's not my problem.

[dallow]

Uncharted brought the main characters to life as well.

[dpatel]

Been meaning to play that game. Wasn't really impressed with the demo, so I decided to wait on it. Have heard plenty of praise about the game, so I'll probably pick it up on the cheap pretty soon.

[Blackout]

Been meaning to play that game. Wasn't really impressed with the demo, so I decided to wait on it. Have heard plenty of praise about the game, so I'll probably pick it up on the cheap pretty soon.

That demo doesn't do the game justice IMO.

[dallow]

Oh wow, you have to get it dpatel.
I just recently beat it this past weekend.

I was floored.

[CoffeeEdge]

I'll agree the statement by QD is far from true and we won't overcome the Uncanny Valley anytime soon, but I think it's foolish to think something will never be overcome when it comes to technology. Your post below shows how graphics are becoming better and better as time goes on, so I don't see why we wouldn't eventually overcome the Uncanny Valley. The reason the claims that movies like: Final Fantasy, Polar Express, etc. look photorealistic are laughable is because something else comes along a few years later that exceeds it. Meaning we are only getting closer and closer to photorealism.

No, but that's the point of the Uncanny Valley: the closer we get, the further we seem to be. We keep getting closer, but the bigger the advances, the more glaring the flaws (and there will always be flaws, since nothing is perfect). Get it? That's why it's uncanny.

The art world has been trying to achieve photorealism for thousands of years, and hasn't made any real progress in centuries. I don't think CGI will change this.

There is a point of diminishing returns, on "photorealism," that I just don't think is surmountable.

[dpatel]

No, but that's the point of the Uncanny Valley: the closer we get, the further we seem to be. We keep getting closer, but the bigger the advances, the more glaring the flaws (and there will always be flaws, since nothing is perfect). Get it? That's why it's uncanny.

I don't think I'm entirely sure as to what you're trying to say. Are you saying that as video game characters become more realistic, there is more opportunity for flaws? For instance, the girl in Heavy Rain could have unrealistic looking eyelashes, which wasn't an issue before because previous characters in older games didn't even have eye lashes. If so, I fail to see how the lack of eye lashes isn't a bigger flaw than unrealistic looking eye lashes.

The flaws are definitely not more 'glaring' as time goes on. They still exist (and will continue to exist for quite some time), but they become much smaller as time goes on and harder to point out than previous works.

Just look at the games you listed as being hailed as 'realistic': Tomb Raider -> Goldeneye -> Shenmue -> MGS3 -> Heavenly Sword -> Heavy Rain. Every single flaw that you can find in Heavy Rain can be found in each game prior to that with hundreds of more flaws. The amount of flaws is definitely diminishing and we are definitely progressing and I feel it is only a matter of time before the Uncanny Valley is crossed.

The art world has been trying to achieve photorealism for thousands of years, and hasn't made any real progress in centuries. I don't think CGI will change this.

There is a point of diminishing returns, on "photorealism," that I just don't think is surmountable.

As with anything else in life, technology will help us achieve what we were never capable of before.

[NamPaehc]

Heavy Rain will be at Leipzig INFRONT of the curtains! (http://www.ripten.com/2008/08/12/what-will-sony-show-at-leipzig/)

MotorStorm Pacific Rift
- LittleBigPlanet
- Resistance 2
- Free Realms
- The Agency
- DC Universe Online
- Infamous
- Home
- Killzone 2 (single player and multiplayer hands-on)
- Heavy Rain

[dpatel]

Awesome.. it's only a week away.

[CoffeeEdge]

dpatel, please go read the wikipedia article on "Uncanny Valley," or google it.

[dallow]

There's no doubt we'll cross that valley.

Shots from AMD's Cinema 2.0 realtime demos.

http://xs230.xs.to/xs230/08332/amd_07_emily2495.jpg

http://www.hardocp.com/images/news/121857819601m0d6RNya_1_1_l.jpg

video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz7AukqqaDQ

[orko60]

What would have been huge is if partway through the video they revealed that the guy at the beginning was actually rendered! Mindfuck confirmed!

[CoffeeEdge]

Yeah, the animation really holds up. :roll:

Until it's perfect (good luck with that), the Uncanny Valley stands.

[dallow]

Yeah, that video of the girl talking wasn't realistic at all.
Even though it was a 1:1 capture of her physical movements.

[DrFoo]

Games don't have to be perfect to go past the Uncanny Valley. The Uncanny Valley is the area where characters in games repulse us the most in that they don't look quite human enough but not fake enough, either (the Wikipedia article says a stuffed animal is before the valley, a zombie is right at the worst point, and prosthetic hands are about half way up the other side) . I know most of you won't agree with me, but to me even Half-Life 2 goes past this barrier. I sort of cared for Alyx by the time I finished episode 2, and I think the game even tricked my brain into thinking she was a real human by the end. There aren't any rules to the uncanny valley and the whole thing could just be BS anyways so I guess anybody can say what they want. Then again, Coffee weren't you the one who thought those screen shots comparing Crysis to a real life location weren't anywhere near photo realistic? Yes, I know they were carefully set up and that they were only screen shots but when half the people you show them to choose the wrong picture, it's damn close enough for me. But you are right about the animations in games making them far from perfect. It's going to take a decade or two for that.

[CoffeeEdge]

Yeah, that video of the girl talking wasn't realistic at all.
Even though it was a 1:1 capture of her physical movements.

Yes, because it fails to capture the subtle subdermal movements (muscles, and the way they cause skin to contract, form wrinkles, etc), et cetera. And when viewed in a fully textured CGI enviroment, the lighting will, I guarantee, be an instant giveaway.

And DrFoo, fine, let's stop using the term "Uncanny Valley" (indeed, the term has been abused, and it's meaning has been distorted a bit). Let's talk photorealism.

And no, the Crysis shots weren't anywhere close.

[dallow]

Pretty awesome you could see every detail from that from an off-camera youtube vid.

[CoffeeEdge]

Pretty awesome you could see every detail from that from an off-camera youtube vid.

The method they describe clearly would not be able to capture that. It's computational, and will result in errors.

[dallow]

Dang, we have an expert here that knows the ins and outs of unreleased tech.

[CoffeeEdge]

Dang, we have an expert here that knows the ins and outs of unreleased tech.

Nothing he described is unreleased. The relighting and capture technique he is talking about is several years old. I read a very in-depth article about it Computer (http://www.computer.org/portal/site/computer/index.jsp), I believe.

Edit:
Yup, the article was "Computational Photography," and it's 2 years old, and the tech was already fairly mature then.

[dallow]

:rofl:

[CoffeeEdge]

:rofl:

What's so funny?

You're the one calling this photorealistic, so I'm not the one who looks like a GIANT FUCKING WORD FOR STUPID PEOPLE.

[dallow]

Yeah, I called it photorealistic.
Show me where I said that.

[CoffeeEdge]

Yeah, I called it photorealistic.
Show me where I said that.

You fail. Heavy Rain sucks. Photorealistic CGI will never exist.

[dallow]

:rofl:
Please show me where I called it photorealistic as I never did.

[CoffeeEdge]

the partffuaarrt

[dallow]

You're such a fucking idiot.
You're also the guy who said "uncompressed audio" for films didn't mean anything right?
That could have been Never4Ever though, I always mixed you two up.

[CoffeeEdge]

Fartybutt?

[dallow]

8-)

[CoffeeEdge]

:robot:

[-Never4ever-]

You're such a fucking idiot.
You're also the guy who said "uncompressed audio" for films didn't mean anything right?
That could have been Never4Ever though, I always mixed you two up.

Why drag my name into this? How are we even remotely alike?

Also, I don't even know what "uncompressed audio for films" truly means, so I doubt that was me (unless I was drunk at the time, of course).

[dallow]

Sweet, it was CoffeeEdge then. 8-)

[CoffeeEdge]

Sweet, it was CoffeeEdge then. 8-)

Totally sunglasses-worthy.

[NamPaehc]

New Game Director interview. (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/255339.html)

One more day before the show!

[NamPaehc]

Show is here! And so is a trailer! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MP260in3ph4)

Quantic Dream’s David Cage has just taken us through some amazing looking Heavy Rain gameplay at Leipzig. (http://www.videogaming247.com/2008/08/20/gc08-heavy-rain-demoed-at-sony-conference-looks-amazing/)

First he announces that games are no longer for kids and teenagers,” saying that no guns, cars, interfaces, puzzles or enemies are in the game. It’s all about moral choices, contextual actions and decision making.


You, the player, are both writer and director.
We see a man standing in the rain and some kids playing outside a house. Then, we go inside and see a room with birds hanging from the ceiling and the sound of a woman’s voice speaking into a dictaphone: all very eeire.


We’re then taken inside a house where you’re being chased. All of a sudden the man in the rain attacks you and there’s some QTE’s to avoid being killed.
We are then taken outside again and the demo was over.
Game is to be released “next year.”

[Strell]

....

That's it?

That's seriously it?

QTE fest + wooden actors? That's not even "real game footage" like it portends, which always annoys the shit out me when I can tell that because the camera angles are nothing like you'll find in the actual game.

And this tosh about it having amazing facial expressions? Are you kidding me? You know when you see the comedy bit where someone is a ventriloquist, and the dummy's head is actually a real person with black lines drawn down at the corners of their mouths? And no matter how much the actor in question tries to move their mouth straight up and down, they never achieve the effect of looking like a wooden doll?

That's what this shit is like, but in reverse - trying to look lifelike but failing in the process because NO ONE'S FACE REMAINS STATUESQUE WHEN THEY TALK.

But hey it was fun hearing that the Uncanny Valley was being crossed, only to see people drowning in it.

[NamPaehc]

The Uncanny Valley doesn't pertain to just visuals. SOME like to think so, but to me the idea is a lot deeper then that. It has to "feel real". Sound/sight/emotion all have to come into play. You guys can have at that if you want though.

I'm just going to post more info on the actual gameplay as I think it is going to be demoed so we get a better understanding of this title.

[Strell]

Gotta walk before you can run.

And these people barely seem to know how to crawl.

[NamPaehc]

Another video link. (http://www.gamekyo.com/video12723_heavy-rain-new-video.html)

From IGN

8:34 a.m. -- Heavy Rain time!

8:36 a.m. -- David Cage, with Quantic Dream takes the stage. This is the big one. People applaud happily. "After being silent for a while, we're proud to be in Leipzig." He references Nomad Soul, Fahrenheit (Indigo Prophecy) and then The Casting, that sweet technical demo that we all saw a while ago.

8:37 a.m. -- He's here to talk about Heavy Rain today. Key points: This will be mature/serious content. It's going to be accessible. It's going to be an emotional experience (moral choices and the like, the player will be playing the story).

8:38 a.m. -- It will be story driven and your decisions have consequences. These are some of the same themes that Cage went over during my meeting with him prior to the press conference. Make sure to check out my Eyes-on, readers! It's good stuff.

8:39 a.m. -- Cage mentions that Sony has been very supportive of their efforts. Actual gameplay footage is being shown, a rainy neighborhood is tainted by the presence of something evil. Sinister.

8:39 a.m. -- These are scenes from the Origami Killer demonstration we received previously. Very intense contextual gameplay with an extremely vivid emotional touch. Heavy Rain 2009 ends the trailer.

[dragonjud]

I've never been a fan of the whole QTE + immediate response technique. I liked all the God of War games, and that's the only place where they seemed adequate. They sucked back in Shenmue, and many other games. Press the correct button or die. I don't mind if they're used for sending you down a different path, but when it forces you to play the stupid QTE sequence just to remember the correct button sequence, I don't see it as a worthwhile addition.

[Ugamer_X]

If there are no enemies in the game, who's the big guy swinging the knife?

Perhaps he's deaf and blind and he doesn't realize that he's hunting inside a house?

[CoffeeEdge]

Gotta walk before you can run.

And these people barely seem to know how to crawl.

I have got to agree with Strell. This game is out in the open now, it's not this big secret thing anymore. They can't keep using the fact that no one had really seen it, to cover for their lies about it being this revolutionary, photorealistic, paradigm-shifting game.

Looking at the trailer, it doesn't even look like Shenmue; it looks like fucking Dragon's Lair, in 2008. It's not moving gaming forward. Quite the opposite: it's going to be yet another game that holds interactive storytelling back: a linear QTE-fest, with no real opportunity for the player to deviate or truly alter the story. I just don't understand how Quantic thinks that this is pushing us forward. Looking at that trailer, it looks like you have practically no control over the character.

And no, this has nothing to do with Heavy Rain being a PS3 game (as I'm sure some will accuse). I said the same things about Indigo Prophecy. Quantic Dream absolutely refuses to evolve. Indigo Prophecy fooled me once, shame on them. But I will not fall for this a second time.

If you want to talk about truly interactive storytelling, let's talk about Façade (http://www.interactivestory.net/). Quantic Dream could only dream about anything that even remotely approaches the sort of dynamic, engrossing, truly interactive storytelling that Façade accomplished. They're too wrapped up in the notion that QTEs count as "dynamic storytelling" to even attempt that. And you want to talk about impactful choices? The Witcher mops the floor with this shit.

You, the player, are both writer and director.
Wow. Not only is the game earth-shatteringly pretentious, but it seems to emit some sort of field of pretention, in which journalists are easily ensnared.

Writer and director? Hah. Audience member, at best.

It’s all about moral choices, contextual actions and decision making.
Contextual actions? Press X button when the X icon comes up on the screen?

[Darknyss]

If there are no enemies in the game, who's the big guy swinging the knife?

Perhaps he's deaf and blind and he doesn't realize that he's hunting inside a house?
From the article posted on IGN (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/898/898580p1.html), even if you die the game carries on.

@ CoffeeEdge: I suggest waiting until more info is released before going apeshit over a 2min trailer.

[Vanigan]

Sounds just like the better parts of Indigo Prophecy, and it even sounds like they've upped the amount of choice and variability in the game this time around. It's very, very cool that they planned for a major character death.

[dallow]

Dang Strell, what's with the going all CoffeeEdge on a relatively unknown PS3 game with little to no hype from the average gamer?

The graphic whore within me is pleased even if it's just an interactive movie. Viva next gen Dragon's Lair!

There's plenty other games to "play" anyway.

[Strell]

Dang Strell, what's with the going all CoffeeEdge on a relatively unknown PS3 game with little to no hype from the average gamer?


"Average gamer."

What about me constitutes that?

Right. Nothing.

When I subscribe to a thread and hear a lot of big talk from a developer about how they are going to revolutionize this hobby of mine, only to see them flop their dicks around in my face for a while before pulling back a curtain to show off a smiling turd, I've every right to voice my complaint.

That's the one thing that is so glaringly obvious about the game industry (and you really learn this rule by being a Nintendo fan) - when people talk a big storm but constantly say "oh but you'll have to wait to find out more," they are always full of shit.

I'd extend the same courtesy to any company pulling that stunt - it aint just here that I'd attack so viciously.

[happy]

I never played and know almost nothing about indigo prophecy, but they must have been showing more than just this trailer at E3 or some journalists need to get fired (didn't one break the NDA to say it was game of the show).

I have no problem with developers talking up their game (within reason), but the press better know something I don't.

[Vanigan]

IF you want to get an idea of how Heavy Rain will play, for free, you can try the demo of Indigo Prophecy (aka Fahrenheit), it's still available for download in a lot of places and the demo covers the first chapter.

Strell is just complaining that he didn't get any of that dick flopping action.

The best way to be is skeptical of the game. I'm excited for it, of course, but I know full well the problems with Quantic Dream's last few games so it could still be a stinker. But, I also know what they did really, really well with Indigo Prophecy. However, there's really no point in getting angry about it, because if your getting that angry then you're the one who is buying into the hype and letting yourself get disapointed. Not to mention that these developers and publishers are paid to promote their games, did you think they'd say it's just be an mediocre product?

[Strell]

Geez, the fanboys in here are deluded.

[Vanigan]

Ad hominem fallacy, which I am guilty of since I forgot to include the smiley. This is a logical fallacy in where you attack the character of the person or people making the argument instead of the argument itself.

Geez, some posters here are uneducated. ;)

But often the first person to throw out the word fanboy in an argument is the first person that should be ignored.

After all, I said I clearly understood the many problems with Quantic Dream's last few games (Omikron and Indigo Prophecy), both of which had glaring issues. If you think I'm deluded enough to overlook that, then you're the one who was deluded enough completely miss the last paragraph of my last post.

And honestly, if your beef with the game is mainly graphical, have your steak. The gameplay looks good, same for the atmosphere and emotional feel of what was shown.

[Strell]

I don't know how stupid someone has to be to start quoting Logic 101 level bullshit, especially when they just got done making the same "error" they are aiming at someone else. It's even more hilarious when they think the person they are talking to is uneducated, since I've already gone and done those classes years ago. Are you graduating high school? Thinkin' your britches carry the weight of the world instead of a sad sack containing two tiny grapes?

My problem is the big talk not measuring up to the end product.

Is that clear cut enough for you, Vagina? Miserable blood gushing bitch cavern you are?

This is like Star Wars fans trying to tell me episodes 1-3 were "awesome and sorely underrated," and that the Clone Wars cartoon is "the best cartoon ever."

Get over it that you're the ones crying over someone having a different opinion that the shit you like eating is still shit.

[Oktoberfest]

hopefully the game turns out to be good...

[Thomas96]

I wasn't all that impressed with the QTE events, but the game still felt interesting, very exciting.

[CoffeeEdge]

Mark my words. Quantic Dream, despite their claims to the contrary, are one of the worst offenders in the industry, in terms of holding back progress on storytelling and interactivity in games. For the third time in a row now, they have clearly failed to make good on their outrageous claims, and are again falling back on QTEs to stand in for "interactivity."

No, the story in Indigo Prophecy wasn't that great, and the characters were ridiculous. Lucas was one of the hammiest protagonists in recent memory, and Tyler wasn't much less of a black stereotype than one I'd expect in a vaudeville act (exacceration for effect).

Quantic Dream is shit, and they are helping to ruin the videogame industry. And the mainstream journalists eat this shit up. I'm sure they'll be able to get a blurb from the New York Times heralding it as revolutionary and the next level in storytelling, for the cover. Ugh.

[Vanigan]

Strell, you're the one getting your britches in a bunch about this.

And wow Coffee, seriously man. All that from seeing a few in-game snippets? I think some decaf is in order.

Seriously, no one here is saying it's some amazing thing just from a few game snippets. Is it some earth shattering thing, nope. But what, just because some boneheaded developer mouths off a bit you're going to not just dismiss a game, but hate it with that sort of vehemence is a bit odd.

Strell, remember, you're the one who started making comments about people who were interested in the game first. Although, I suppose I did provoke you with the dick slap comment. But on a forum called Cheap Ass Gamer, things are bound to be a bit edgy, no? And wow, very creative there with the vagina comment, neeever heard that one before.

So someone said something and didn't live up to it in your mind. So what? That's life and it happens all the time. In this case it's completely insignificant. For someone who gets so uptight over his maturity being questioned that you resort to, well, actually some rather funny insults (love the vocabulary by the way), you seem unable to deal with the realities that just because one person in a massive team mouths off a bit doesn't mean it'll be a crap game, and that others don't share your opinion and think that's it's overly negative.

My logical fallacy comment was particularly apt because you hate the game because of the character of someone creating it, one character in a massive team, instead of the game itself.

Sure, Heavy Rain could be absolute crap, but it's a bit too early to say. But it could a good game. Me defending the game from what I think is overly harsh criticism doesn't mean I won't deliver just as harsh a critique of it when after trying a demo or seeing more full gameplay footage that it's crap.

[dpatel]

Like most people have already said in this thread, it definitely (at least so far) does not look like it lives up to the revolution game that QD is promising. But that never stopped me from enjoying Indigo Prophecy. I'm quite used to the PR BS that gets thrown around, so I don't go to just the developers for my information. Before playing Indigo Prophecy, I knew full well what I was getting into and was able to enjoy it, despite it not living up to the developers words. I'm sure this will be the case with Heavy Rain. I think I'll still be able to enjoy it despite it not being anything revolutionary, but it's far too early to know just yet. We barely have any information on the game, and it's still at least half a year away.

[guinaevere]

Contextual actions? Press X button when the X icon comes up on the screen?Contextual and decision-making in the "do I want the character to die or not die" context.


But I still think it looks intriguing. More atmospheric than anything else at the moment. But that's a start.

[dallow]

Jeeze, this small game company is hurting the game industry?
Few people even played their other games.

I agree, they talk big, and don't show much for it other than sweet graphics, but sheesh!

Where were you guys when Itagaki was calling NGII the greatest action game in history.

[CoffeeEdge]

Jeeze, this small game company is hurting the game industry?
Okay, not hurting. But helping to hold back.

Contextual and decision-making in the "do I want the character to die or not die" context.
Eh, every game with a "game over" screen has that.

[guinaevere]

Eh, every game with a "game over" screen has that.But that's earned through a lack of skill. QTE or the so called 'decision making' are not the same.

[robin2099]

Geez, the fanboys in here are deluded.

We could say the same about you. You saw a two minute trailer and you figure that's enough to be the videogame equivalent of the anti-christ? Not withstanding that the game is still over a year(possibly two) away. Geez.

Quantic Dream is shit, and they are helping to ruin the videogame industry. And the mainstream journalists eat this shit up. I'm sure they'll be able to get a blurb from the New York Times heralding it as revolutionary and the next level in storytelling, for the cover. Ugh.

I really would like to know what your basing this claim on.

[CoffeeEdge]

I really would like to know what your basing this claim on.
Puh-leeze. Are you truly completelu unaware of the way the mainstream media usually reacts to these self-proclaimed "revolutionary"/"storytelling"/"art" games?

[Blackout]

I don't care what kind of character design they are trying to pull off. I just want to play the damn game. As long as the story is interesting I'm good. There is no way this game is changing the world but I don't see what there is to get so heated about. As long as it's similar to Indigo Prophecy (without the weird crap at the end) then I'm good. If they want to try to cure cancer and world hunger too, I could care less. This game is probably going to sell like shit then be quickly forgotten. Does anyone remember Shadows Destiny? No fuckin way. Similar gameplay that no one is going to care about a year after its release.

[CoffeeEdge]

...but I don't see what there is to get so heated about.
Then you have clearly never read/seen an interview with David Cage (head honcho at Quantic Dream). The way the man shamelessly kisses his own ass and hypes his shit is blood-boiling.

[CoffeeEdge]

Does anyone remember Shadows Destiny?
But Konami never promised that Shadow of Destiny would revolutionize interactive storytelling.

[Blackout]

But Konami never promised that Shadow of Destiny would revolutionize interactive storytelling.

True, but I think the same thing that happened with Shadows Destiny and Indigo is going to happen to Heavy Rain. I just don't see a game like this making any sort of big impact. At all. It'll be in the clearance bins and be forgotten. Is this going to be a great game? Most likely not.

And no, I haven't been following what David Cage has been saying. I just started checking out the game again when the new trailer came out. I knew when they started touting this game as "revolutionary" that it was just not going to happen. Wasn't there some ugly ass face shots of the main character, looking like a person with Down Syndrome? Story telling wise, they have to work twice as hard to make up for that lousy fuck ending of Indigro Prophecy. I loved that game but it was a complete JOKE. That game fell apart like a bad burrito. It made no sense whatever. I also got sick of those crazy ass boss fights where all you did was hit 'X" or another button as fast as you could or nail down a sequence as fast as you could. Other than that I really liked the game. It's just that when the game fell apart, it fell apart bad.

Having said that, I am not getting caught up into the hype of the game, but I have pretty high expectations for it. Will the game live up to it? Maybe, maybe not. This game is not the second coming of Jesus Christ though. Like I said this is going to be another Indigo Prophecy, where no one really cares about it, no one really talks about it a year or two after the release, and it's divided into "I loved that game!" or "I really fuckin hated that game."

[NamPaehc]

You can download the trailer from the Euro store, so hopefully it will be up in the US tonight too.

>>>Oh and demo will be released + DLC. (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=220286)



Quantic Dream has confirmed to Eurogamer plans for a pre-release demo of PS3 exclusive-of-the-moment Heavy Rain, while hinting at the potential for downloadable content in the convention-smashing adventure.

"Yes, of course, there will be a demo," said studio president David Cage, speaking to us the morning after the long-rumoured game was finally unveiled during Sony's GC 2008 conference. Given the nature of the title, however, demo content is likely to steer clear of the main story, instead focusing on conveying the game's unique mechanics.

"We need to think about it, but I wouldn't want to spoil the story," Cage added. "We've spent a lot of time working on the story this time; we've worked with people from Hollywood, script writers, to really make it just right. And I think it's a very unusual story for a videogame, so I think people will be quite surprised."

The gameplay walkthrough we witnessed earlier today was described as a separate episode not related to the main storyline, and this points ahead to ways in which Quantic Dream is considering expanding the game with downloadable content, as well as future titles.

"This is something it's really too early to talk about, but it's definitely a possibility," Cage revealed. "There's so many possibilities with this thing, because what matters now is just the story you want to tell. Do you have a good story to tell? Then you can do it, because this thing isn't specific to the series. You can tell any story with this interface, because it's entirely contextual."

Look out for a detailed preview of the Leipzig demo soon, and if you haven't already, be sure to check out the announcement trailer on Eurogamer TV. Heavy Rain is due out on PS3 next year.

[CoffeeEdge]

"There's so many possibilities with this thing, because what matters now is just the story you want to tell. Do you have a good story to tell? Then you can do it, because this thing isn't specific to the series. You can tell any story with this interface, because it's entirely contextual."
http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/6971/wallqa5.gif

I sometimes wonder if he like, actually knows nothing about videogames, used to be real estate salesman or something, and has no idea what he is talking about.

[NamPaehc]

A few new screens. (http://www.cynamite.de/_misc/galleries/detail.cfm?pk=1441&fk=90167&opv=gal) Pretty good quality.

Also, did anyone else notice that in the trailers, the woman's voice sounds like Carla from Indigo Prophecy?

[dallow]

Will get that trailer off the UK store.

[mwynn]

Then you have clearly never read/seen an interview with David Cage (head honcho at Quantic Dream). The way the man shamelessly kisses his own ass and hypes his shit is blood-boiling.

Is he worse than Peter Molyneux?
Do you seriously get bent out of shape out run away hype?

[Vanigan]

It could be that, gosh, he's proud of his own creation, especially when it looks that good? I also wonder whether those here who are so upset over Cage's comments have actually read the entire interview, or have just relied on small snippets out of context or hearsay.

My main problem with what was shown was that it was clear the mouth phoneme shapes weren't in place at the time they showed it (those are the mouth animations that show particular sounds being spoken). The jaw just flapped up and down, they tried to hide it by having the tape recorder obscure the mouth for the small moment she was talking.

However, keep in mind with development that kind of detail is something that's constantly being tweaked and developed. The character rig for such an advanced character's mouth is probably monstrous.

Actually I don't mind QTEs so long as they're not the main game element. To me, this is more of an adventure game than an action game, an the adventure portion, with it's branching and partially non-linear paths is an excellent take on the adventuring part of gaming.

[CoffeeEdge]

It could be that, gosh, he's proud of his own creation, especially when it looks that good?

Okay, you definitely haven't read/seen him then. There is a difference between "pride," and speficically, pride that has been legitimately earned, and the wretched combination of pompousness, arrogance, pretentiousness, and unwarranted self-importance that is David Cage.

Yes, he's worse than Molyneux, because at least Molyneux gets about half of his promises right, eventually. Indigo Prophecy still only had one story branch. He's worse than Dennis Dyack, too.

[Vanigan]

Molyneux also got things wrong too, with Black and White and other stuff. Molyneux just has the pedigree from past games.

But here's another thing though, if you read interviews with Cage after Indigo Prophecy released, and after it was seen as a small success, he went on to acknowledge a lot of the things that were wrong with the game, both what he didn't like and players complained about. If you read those too, you get a more complete image of him rather than just big statements. What I read showed a designer who knew exactly what he'd done wrong. He covered the poor controls in IG, the way the plot goes all stupid crazy for the second half, and the way how the great multiple pathways concept wasn't used to its fullest towards the end. However, he did also talk about what went right, and that was the way the plot could bend around how the player chose to handle situations.

Now, the descriptions of the gameplay from 1up and IGN show the kind of stuff I'm looking for from the successor to Indigo Prophecy.

Honestly, I've read about 4 interviews so far, 1-2 short ones about Heavy Rain, and 1-2 about Indigo Prophecy and its aftermath. That's the whole interview. What have you read or where did you get the info? If it's just some snippets and colorful commentary from sites like Kotaku, that's not the best way to get an opinion of anything, unless you want some purposefully edgy opinion.

[robin2099]

Puh-leeze. Are you truly completelu unaware of the way the mainstream media usually reacts to these self-proclaimed "revolutionary"/"storytelling"/"art" games?

Yes, I am. But you keep saying how Heavy Rain will be the downfall of the video game industry and you have nothing to base that assumption on. They said the same about Fable, video game industry is still here. Sony made ridiculous claims about what the PS2 could do, yet the video game industry is still here. Kojima made lofty comments about Metal Gear Solid 2, it was picked up in the press, yet the video game industry is still here. So how exactly will Heavy Rain be the downfall?

[depascal22]

Why is everyone getting their panties in a bunch because of a game? Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, no matter how shitty it may be. Saying that anything they say is "shit" makes you sound like a facist or a neo-con at the best. Take this game for what it is and move on. I'm not one to say this but some of you spend way too much time on CAG.

Personally, the game looks pretty good. I'll take all the bombastic claims with a grain of salt, check out the demo and reviews, and make my OWN decision about the merits of the game. Why can't we let people make up their own minds anymore? Why must everyone conform to the hardcore gamer that exists in some sort of fanboy fairytale?

EDIT -- At this point, why does anyone care what the mainstream media has to say about video games? They're consistently painted the games and the community in the wrong light so why don't we just say fuck em? You can check out screen shots and demos without ever getting info from the mainstream. Like I said before, make up your own mind and just chill out.

[Vanigan]

Sure, everyone is entitled to an opinion. But, if you have one and post it online in a forum like this where we discuss games, and that opinion is also on the extreme side (either too much like or too much hate) then you should expect it to be challenged.

By engaging in any discussion, you yourself must be willing to be convinced of a new line of thought, as much as convincing others to your line of thought.

As such, generally coming in and ranting with vitrol on some topic isn't the best way to go about doing that. Nor is thinking of everyone's opinion deluded, except yours.

As for Heavy Rain, I won't buy it on release day as I'll wait for reviews. If I read anything showing that the developers didn't learn anything from Indigo Prophecy, I'll likely just wait until the game hits a much lower price (which it should do quickly if it's poor).

But, if they did learn their lessons with IP and the general quality is high, then I'd be willing to pay full price for it on release day. That's even if the game is a bit on the short side because then I'd know that it could be replayed to see various outcomes, or certain segments could be completed in many different ways. Heck, in the IGN article it describes how one of the main characters could die due to player actions and the game would still continue without him, but if he survives the game also has him still integrated into the story later on.

A little more HR gameplay info: For those of you who hate QTE sequences that are just button presses, Heavy Rain will be slightly more interactive as you can still have the character look around somewhat by changing the viewpoint. This'll highlight different paths, actions, and general options on what to do next in the middle of the scripted sequence, and depending on which highlighted button you press you'll do that.

You can even fail some QTE sequences without instant death. In the Joystiq impressions one specific mention of this was failing the QTE to run down the stairs quickly. This causes the protagonist to fall down hurting herself and giving herself a nasty bruise that will still be there in later portions of the game.

[Strell]

I like how Vanigan there is talking like he didn't come into this thread and start hurling insults (oh, and then explaining about ad hominem attacks, that was priceless), but instead bullshits it up with some flowery talk about how "golly gee we all need to have a roundtable discussion."

I said a very clear thing about this game based on the trailer, which is that it looks like shit based on how big they've talked it up. And sadly the only person on my side of the ring is probably I tend to clash with the most on this site, but war makes for strange bedfellows and I'd rather take someone who is looking at it clearly rather than being incensed by some seriously fucked-up koolaid up ins this bitch.

You keep a project under wraps for two years and talk about how you're crossing/filling/shitting all over the Uncanny Valley, and then show me mannequins in a QTEfest, you have failed. It is that simple. Again, as a Nintendo fan, about the first rule you learn is that when someone withholds information on "stuff you're totally going to drool over" for ANY period of time, that's a red flag and almost ALWAYS proof that you've got shit to show, and instead are just trying to drum up hype despite your total lack of evidence or persuasion.

And while we're at it, I was never nice to Molyneux - he's definitely one guilty of this tactic, but at least he never started talking about solving problems that animation-at-large contends with. He'd have to have said "my game is so good you won't need to eat ice cream anymore," or something similar, as if he were eliminating needs in your life outside of his games (which always end up being pitiful anyway). Igarashi I couldn't care less about because "ultimate action game" is about the most retarded thing someone could ever say, since "action" encompasses a ton of potential gameplay mechanics and it would be difficult to pit them all against each other as if they were directly comparable (for example, does Ikaruga win over Viewtiful Joe?). Same goes for CliffyB and his constant tirades of how he's the next messiah.

You want me to not shit all over your piss poor "in game" trailer? Then don't play it up like you're changing the landscape of gaming - which they've said on countless occasions. Don't talk about how you've solved the problem of emotionally-infused animation when you clearly haven't. Don't pass yourself off as some demigod of unchained brilliance and potential to reporters when you know you're a fraud.

Somehow this all gets construed as "omfg Stererllol u haets teh gaem u idt" because people at this site have a tremendous ability to not only fail to read, but actually paint over what is being said with their own false hallucinations.

You're crying about how "oh you should look at it with skepticism," but I wasn't the one giving the press releases full of so much hyperbole that we could have baked a dozen cakes out of it. That's the fault of the developer and their clearly-sniffing-their-own-farts rhetoric.

So have your little opinions like depascal said. I can respect everyone's right to be a dumbass.

[Vanigan]

Oh really, so it wasn't you that first said how we were all deluded for being optimistic about the game, Strell? Yeah, I insulted you, although I forgot to include the smiley to show I was being sarcastic about the dick flopping.

There is no war on this forum, you commented, we responded in turn.

Although it does seem you're projecting your hatred of Cage onto all of us who think the game looks good so far.

By the way, how much of Cage's interviews have you actually read. You talk about people who fail to read but you never answered my question about what information you have actually read from Cage first hand. I know for certain that the rumor sites like Joystiq and Kotaku posted quotes of Cage passing him off as a boasting idiot, but did you actually go and read all of what he said, or did you just get angry based off a few small quotes without context. Remember, those sites are well known for being offensive or edgy just to get page views and click throughs.

For example, you know that quote in the title of this topic about crossing the Uncanny Valley? Guess what, that wasn't said by David Cage, the man you hate so much, it was said by someone else, Guillaume de Fondaumière, the co-founder of Quantic. The full interview with him can be read here: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/dream-machine

Then, going back and looking at other Cage statements, in cases where he does sound a bit out there, the article and interview itself is about some pretty theoretical and subjective topics like the Emotion in Games discussion on Gamasutra, a site dedicated towards game developers who have to deal with such issues. Still finding the full transcript of his talk on this though. Edit: Found Gamasutra's paraphrasing of his speech given here: http://gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=19175

Then, in this postmortem article in Gamasutra written by Cage he goes over what went right and wrong. Skip to the section about what went wrong and you can actually read a lot of your criticisms of the game, in a lighter tone, straight from Cage's mouth: http://gamasutra.com/features/20060620/cage_01.shtml

So, perhaps you could help me with my failure to read and provide links to the articles wherein you find Cage such a pompous jackass?

But, despite all this stuff I just dug up, I'm not a fan of Cage or Quantic, and I certainly I don't want you to stop being critical of Cage or the game. I want you to stop assuming everyone who expresses an ounce of positive opinion about the game to be deluded dumbasses just because they had the audacity to call out your arguments.

My reason for enjoying parts of Indigo Prophecy was clearly not for it's Electronic Simon based action control scheme, but rather the more adventure game-like elements involving character interactions and the many ways you could interact with the world and story in less linear fashion. A lot of the game was crap, but those elements were so strong, and the acknowledgement from Cage as to all its other problems is making me optimistic for Heavy Rain. And that's not because I'm a deluded dumbass.

However, basing opinions on non-existant articles and press releases can be a bit deluded.

[Strell]

Oh really, so it wasn't you that first said how we were all deluded for being optimistic about the game, Strell?

Nope.

Get your mommy to help you look up the order of posts. Start at 166.

Can you count that high?

I never even attacked a person - I attacked the company. That would answer your question, when they are the ones throwing out the bullshit. Show me where I named Cage. Go on.

[mwynn]

You can even fail some QTE sequences without instant death. In the Joystiq impressions one specific mention of this was failing the QTE to run down the stairs quickly. This causes the protagonist to fall down hurting herself and giving herself a nasty bruise that will still be there in later portions of the game.

That sounds very interesting. I am willing to try out the demo and go from there. I have not watched the hype videos. So it is all good for me. Pass me a cup of Kool-aid.

[Vanigan]

Nope.

Get your mommy to help you look up the order of posts. Start at 166.

Can you count that high?

I never even attacked a person - I attacked the company. That would answer your question, when they are the ones throwing out the bullshit. Show me where I named Cage. Go on.

Ah, I see. Well I was wrong about you specifically targetting Cage. And the Guillaume guy is definitely a part of Quantic so his boasting words do reflect the company, being co-founder and all.

However, you can't deny that with the articles I posted do show that Cage does show some understanding the faults and isn't a vapid gasbag like Guillaume.

And by that reckoning, Guillaume is no different than any other PR person or exec who opens his mouth and say stupid things. It's just part of the industry.

And you didn't answer whether you had actually fully ready any of those articles, or had just pulled small snippets from edgy sites to form your opinion.

So, did you read those full articles? Maybe you can you get your mommy to read them to you?

[Strell]

The nonsense is in the first damn post of this thread.

[imascrub]

i liked Fahrenheit because of the boobies.
teehee

[Vanigan]

Oh, so you mean the single quote in the first post of this topic. That one single quote from one guy within a company that is supposed to make boastful statements, and all of a sudden the entire company and its games are all some horrific bloated ego monster that somehow brings down gaming as a whole just for existing?

All that vitrol, for what, one quote. It's clear you failed to read anything else about the company and it's other founder before you formed such a strong opinion about it and getting all angry at us for defending it.

I mean, sure, it's okay not to like the guy for being a vapid gasbag with those statements, and the company by extension, but slagging everything in a mile radius around him? Then, trying to blindly defend that opinion without doing decent research. Especially in the face of others in the company that clearly balance out that guy's pompousness with more level headed discussion.

The only difference is that Cage's statements aren't as controversial and as such isn't quoted as much. He's usually busy making multi-million dollar games. Not to mention the boastful statements tend to draw in people just for the controversy.

If that's how you form opinions that you'd call others delusional for questioning, well, you can't blame us for holding an opinion other than yours and defending it.

Imascrub: eh the boobies were okay. Decently modeled, but double dragons they were not. :P

I'm hoping they don't put in sex scenes this time, the ones in IG didn't add much to the character or gameplay. They weren't any more graphic than what you'd find on Euro TV or theaters. What would have been interesting and weird was tieing in-bed performance to health or sanity recovery, that'd be an interesting way of tieing gameplay ramifications to what'd otherwise be an odd moment. But, I suspect the American media couldn't handle it, even I'd find it odd.

[Strell]

I'm sorry, you want a book report?

So you bitch about bitching from one quote, then turn around and do the same?

How much dick juice are you living on from this company?

He's a co-founder, so I'm willing to bet he works on the projects. Even if he's a PR suit, that doesn't excuse anything. Either he's an idiot and blowing shit out of proportion, or he's got a hotshot programmer telling him nonsense and thus BOTH of them are idiots, or he's ignoring what his devs are telling him and he's still an idiot. Point is that someone is making shit up somewhere simply to get everyone to listen to them, and attention-whore tactics only work for so long until it's time to pony up.

It's hilarious that you think someone can't criticize the projects a company pumps out "just because" one person is acting like they have the damned Midas Touch.

And that's not even all the evidence one needs. You look at past projects and see the faults there, you look at whatever trailers they are working on and see faults there, and you look at the asinine comments made over the years in relation to any and all of those developments.

I aint basin' this on one comment, or from one clearly clueless blowhard. I'm basing it on the RIDICULOUS trailer in combination with the RIDICULOUS comments in combination with the RIDICULOUS past (which is two games that also claimed to be revolutionary experiences, and yet clearly were not). And this is all heightened when you start spouting about how you are solving - again, this is the biggest and most egregious issue here - one of the biggest problems in all of animation.

It's like claiming you've discovered cold fusion. I don't give TWO SHITS about anything else beyond that. When you make that claim, you HAVE to back it up. And the second it is clear that you haven't done that, then you're full of shit and you've failed. It is THAT simple. I don't care about how you might do it in the future, or how you almost did it. You've already claimed you've done it when you clearly haven't, which is exactly what these guys have done here.

Need it explained another way? First impression is everything. And when you've built it up and up and up (as evident by the age of this thread) and talked about working on it for years and how "it was only possible with the power of the PS3" and all this other nonsense, and then you show a completely underwhelming product, then you've failed.

That's not enough for you?

Then you're hopeless. Get high on whatever these idiots are going to tell you and take it as proper truth.

By the way, I don't buy your "I forgot a smiley" comment for a second. There's an edit button - use it. Otherwise you're proving yourself nothing but a hollow "but I was only joking REALLY" motif.

[Chase]

It looks promising---but the chick still looks rather manly (like Rumer Willis).

Edit: And I just read the earlier posts. Chill --the fuck-- out, people.

[NamPaehc]

Here is Joystiq's eye-on:

The part of the game we were shown, the same as featured in the trailer you've already seen, is a bonus scene, used to demonstrate the gameplay without revealing any of the game's story. The full game will make use of "rubber band stories" to solve the problems behind creating truly interactive storytelling. So, while you can deform each rubber band in any way you want, the basic shape of the story remains the same.

Fans of Indigo Prophecy will recognize the basic gameplay mechanics right away. Potential actions pop up in the bottom right hand corner when you're able to interact with something. These actions are usually performed with the right analogue stick, though some also rely on the SIXAXIS motion controls. Your character will automatically look at items that are interesting, akin to Grim Fandango and Escape from Monkey Island, and movement is mapped to the right trigger (walking forward) and the left analogue stick (looking).

Dialogue has also changed since Indigo Prophecy, with SIXAXIS controls being used to choose between options whilst talking. Again, this may sound a little odd, but it means that you can layer your actions over each other. By this point in the demo, our rain-soaked character had walked to the front door of the creepy taxidermist's house. Since speaking is all in-game, with no switching to cutscenes, you can utilize both the SIXAXIS controls and the right analogue stick it to ring the doorbell and yell, "Hello?" at the same time.

With no-one home, our character tries the back of the house to look for a way in. A window is slightly open, and it is at this point that Cage demonstrated the ability to check your character's thoughts. Like asking an angel and devil for advice, you won't necessarily get the correct answer, but you'll have some background before making your decision. This can be done at any time and will give different results depending on the situation.
"QTEs will be common in Heavy Rain, but the emphasis is being squarely placed on living with the consequences of your actions."

Once inside the house, we see a very intricately designed and detailed environment. The room really looks lived-in and, thanks to the stuffed animals everywhere (and we're not talking plush toys, here), incredibly creepy. Walking around, a quick time event is triggered. A bottle is almost knocked off a table as our protagonist brushes past, but with good enough reflexes, you can catch it and put it back. QTEs will be common in Heavy Rain, but the emphasis is being squarely placed on living with the consequences of your actions. If you miss catching the bottle, you're not guaranteed to die, but it might get noticed by someone later on.

The game is seemingly split into two separate gameplay types. Exploration, which is what we've been describing so far, and reaction to events. Both use the same controls, but have a very different feel. We'll paraphrase the rest of the exploration part, but rest assured that the discovery of the sawed-up body in the bathtub and the stuffed women in the taxidermist's bedroom are very creepy, tense moments. While we never see the body up close (a lot is left to the imagination) the reaction of the character is incredibly real and emotive -- stepping away, coughing and spluttering, disgusted.

After these two discoveries, the taxidermist arrives home. It's time to get out of there without being seen. The screen splits, showing us what he's doing. The music rides up and the atmosphere is, again, incredibly tense. Making a way quietly through the house and nudging doors open, we creep past into the garage and out onto a motorbike. Oh, and do pay attention to what the protagonist says. When she mentions that there's a creaking floorboard, make sure you avoid it when trying to sneak out of a serial killer's house. Just sayin'.

Of course, this whole scenario can go a little bit more awry. We saw a second playthrough, with the stealthy exit at the end replaced by cowering in a cupboard. When discovered by the killer, the action becomes more fast paced. Everything happens in real-time, so you can still look around you, even while wrestling on a bed. Objects of interest will cause a face-button symbol to appear, allowing you to interact. This can result in anything from dodging the taxidermist's knife lunges, or picking up a nearby lamp and smashing it over his head.

At times the viewpoint turns to first person, as you desperately look around for where to go next with the analogue stick. QTEs will stand in your way but won't necessarily kill you. The demonstrator fails one on the stairs and trips, giving the character a nasty bruise. She'll keep that in future levels as a souvenir, but it doesn't automatically mean the taxidermist catches up. In the end, the woman manages to escape the knife-wielding animal stuffer and makes her way outside, thanks to the demonstrator's nimble fingers. Did we mention this game is tense? We don't mind telling you that we left the room shaking.

[NamPaehc]

Heavy Rain to support Home.

David Cage, writer and director of massively anticipated PS3 exclusive Heavy Rain, has confirmed that the game will support PlayStation Home, Sony's much delayed online virtual world.

Cage, founder and CEO of Quantic Dream, the French developer of 2005's critically acclaimed Fahrenheit, was speaking this morning during a live hands-on demo in Sony's behind closed door booth at Games Convention in Leipzig, Germany. He did not, however, offer any details how Home will be incorporated into the game.


Heavy Rain wowed gamers during Sony's Leipzig press conference where for the first time we got a taste of how the mysterious adventure game will actually work.


PS3 fans will be delighted by Cage's comments. While Home is hotly anticipated, it has suffered from a number of delays and currently does not have an official release date. An open beta is planned for later this year.
Check back soon for our Heavy Rain first-look preview.