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GameDude
08-09-2004, 01:43 PM
Well, I called her and left a message like 2x and she didn't call me back. So fuck it. Here she is:



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v95/gamedude/fc46.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v95/gamedude/200001.jpg

slidecage
08-09-2004, 01:44 PM
bottom picture some people may pay for that link lol

LV-426RS
08-09-2004, 01:45 PM
not really hot... but pretty.

Steggy
08-09-2004, 01:46 PM
ha... that dog got more action than you that night....

slidecage
08-09-2004, 01:46 PM
in way looks like the chic from tomb raider

PsyClerk
08-09-2004, 01:48 PM
Not that hot. Mind you, I wouldn't kick her out of bed but I wouldn't lose any sleep over her either.

Hmmm...two figures of speech which could be construed as the same thing yet used to describe vastly different reactions. Interesting.

Slipknot9762
08-09-2004, 01:49 PM
nice picture!

GameDude
08-09-2004, 01:50 PM
If you guys don't think she's hot, then show me pics of your girlfriends. I'd risk getting a STD for this chick.

WildWop
08-09-2004, 01:51 PM
Yup, two strikes and she's out in the dating game. This shit ain't baseball, friend. Time to move on.

Neo
08-09-2004, 01:51 PM
Ew, what a romantic statement.

She's alright, but it looks like you are getting DENIED.

LV-426RS
08-09-2004, 01:52 PM
Just because we don't think she's hot doesn't mean our gf's are hot, if that's the case everyone here would date a hot girl but you.

GameDude
08-09-2004, 01:53 PM
Ew, what a romantic statement.

She's alright, but it looks like you are getting DENIED.

I honestly don't know what's going on. We were getting along fine, then all of a sudden, she like drops of the face of the earth.

johnnyoski
08-09-2004, 01:54 PM
Not bad at all man. How old was she?

GameDude
08-09-2004, 01:54 PM
Not bad at all man. How old was she?

22

EddieBelfour
08-09-2004, 01:54 PM
If you guys don't think she's hot, then show me pics of your girlfriends. I'd risk getting a STD for this chick.

i agree. whats the story here my man, im lost. she is beautiful. great facial stucture.

Neo
08-09-2004, 01:54 PM
This is like that movie Wicker Park! Maybe you have an obsessed girl watching you sleep!?

WildWop
08-09-2004, 01:55 PM
Ew, what a romantic statement.

She's alright, but it looks like you are getting DENIED.

I honestly don't know what's going on. We were getting along fine, then all of a sudden, she like drops of the face of the earth.

You've done all you should without appearing needy. Let her make the next move, if there will be a next move. And I agree she's pretty good lookin... the professional job in the first one is pretty sweet. Not so sure about the kissing the dog one, though.

GameDude
08-09-2004, 01:57 PM
If you guys don't think she's hot, then show me pics of your girlfriends. I'd risk getting a STD for this chick.

i agree. whats the story here my man, im lost. she is beautiful. great facial stucture.

http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25257&postdays=0&postorder=asc&sta rt=0

swetooth9
08-09-2004, 01:59 PM
ha... that dog got more action than you that night....

:rofl:

Arakias
08-09-2004, 01:59 PM
Shes got a big forehead it looks like, kinda like Mena Suarvi or Heather Graham, I forget which one.

johnnyoski
08-09-2004, 01:59 PM
Not bad at all man. How old was she?

22

Oh man...At that age she is probably playing the field. Alot of chicks turn into players for a few years after they turn 21. Then they either decide its time for them to settle down or keep partying and playing the guys.

GameDude
08-09-2004, 02:01 PM
Not bad at all man. How old was she?

22

Oh man...At that age she is probably playing the field. Alot of chicks turn into players for a few years after they turn 21. Then they either decide its time for them to settle down or keep partying and playing the guys.

Well, I think she's almost 23.

And for all of the guys acting like she's not hot, I very seriously doubt any of you could get a girl nearly as hot. If you can, show some pics.

LV-426RS
08-09-2004, 02:01 PM
Shes got a big forehead it looks like, kinda like Mena Suarvi or Heather Graham, I forget which one.

the bigger the forehead the bigger the target.

Neo
08-09-2004, 02:03 PM
I had a girlfriend that was just a little bit hotter IMO.

They kinda look similar though.

Arakias
08-09-2004, 02:04 PM
the bigger the forehead the bigger the target.

Yeah you prob wont even need scope if you wanted to hit it.

GameDude
08-09-2004, 02:05 PM
Not bad at all man. How old was she?

22

Oh man...At that age she is probably playing the field. Alot of chicks turn into players for a few years after they turn 21. Then they either decide its time for them to settle down or keep partying and playing the guys.

Oh yeah, maybe I'm just having some wishful thinking, I don't know if that's what she wants to do. Call me weird or whatever, but this is what I did.

I created 2 yahoo accounts. One with a normal looking dude, and one with some model guy. Anyway, I sent her free icebreakers from both of "them" and she didn't respond to either. However, she did respond to my icebreaker.

Wlogan31
08-09-2004, 02:05 PM
I had a girlfriend that was just a little bit hotter IMO.

They kinda look similar though.

Yeah, I feel the same way. I also have several girls who would LOVE to be my g/f that are hotter...not always the smartest chicks though. I can't really get into the whole dumb blonde thing personally. Sorry, TMI.

EDIT: Not saying she isn't hot--she is. She just isn't someone I would create a topic about in a forum =)

bradr
08-09-2004, 02:06 PM
The first pic (in B&W reminds me of Sara McLachlan or Martha Quinn? for some reason). But anyway, here's a bit of sage advice:

Stop trying to figure out why women do what they do. I never have and probably never will. Their opinions and wants will change with the direction the wind blows.

Have you talked to her on the phone?

GameDude
08-09-2004, 02:06 PM
I had a girlfriend that was just a little bit hotter IMO.

They kinda look similar though.

Yeah, I feel the same way. I also have several girls who would LOVE to be my g/f that are hotter...not always the smartest chicks though. I can't really get into the whole dumb blonde thing personally. Sorry, TMI.

pics?

EddieBelfour
08-09-2004, 02:07 PM
If you guys don't think she's hot, then show me pics of your girlfriends. I'd risk getting a STD for this chick.

i agree. whats the story here my man, im lost. she is beautiful. great facial stucture.

http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25257&postdays=0&postorder=asc&sta rt=0


thanks for the link. heres my beef. i met a chick on the internet before, from my area who sent me pictures of here and she was so fly. for a year or so she wouldnt let me meet her. kept making excuses and what not. my boy knew the girl through other people, she gave me her real name, last and first. so i sent dude the picture and he laughed. it wasnt her. this fine little 5'6 100 pound beauty turned out to be the exact opposite.

now thats always a possibilty , that it isnt her and that why she claims sick. and the threesome thing is a bit personal to tell someone that she just started talking to etc. she is however very fine and if you find out the pic isnt her, i suggest you look for that other honey. :lol:

GameDude
08-09-2004, 02:07 PM
The first pic (in B&W reminds me of Sara McLachlan or Martha Quinn? for some reason). But anyway, here's a bit of sage advice:

Stop trying to figure out why women do what they do. I never have and probably never will. Their opinions and wants will change with the direction the wind blows.

Have you talked to her on the phone?

Nope. I have her number and all I get is her voicemail. It has her name and work and stuff, so I assume it's real.

LV-426RS
08-09-2004, 02:07 PM
Dude... I'm sure just about every one of us has gone out with a girl that looked as good or better than she does... she is NOT hot but she is pretty.

GameDude
08-09-2004, 02:09 PM
Dude... I'm sure just about every one of us has gone out with a girl that looked as good or better than she does... she is NOT hot but she is pretty.

I want to see a pic of you then, at least.

You guys must all be pretty big studs if you all are hooking up with hot chicks.

Wlogan31
08-09-2004, 02:11 PM
Dude... I'm sure just about every one of us has gone out with a girl that looked as good or better than she does... she is NOT hot but she is pretty.

I want to see a pic of you then, at least.

You guys must all be pretty big studs if you all are hooking up with hot chicks.

Doesn't take a stud to hook up with a hot chick, it simply takes confidence (although money and personality play roles sometimes).

You can be the ugliest guy in the world and still pick up HOT chicks...

EddieBelfour
08-09-2004, 02:13 PM
Dude... I'm sure just about every one of us has gone out with a girl that looked as good or better than she does... she is NOT hot but she is pretty.


cmon, in societys eye, she is friggin hot. skinny, dark hair, nice cheekbones. she is fine.

johnnyoski
08-09-2004, 02:15 PM
You can be the ugliest guy in the world and still pick up HOT chicks...

I couldn't agree more with this statement.
The hottest chicks always seemed to be with the nastiest dudes back when I was in my clubbing days.

PsyClerk
08-09-2004, 02:15 PM
Dude... I'm sure just about every one of us has gone out with a girl that looked as good or better than she does... she is NOT hot but she is pretty.

I want to see a pic of you then, at least.

You guys must all be pretty big studs if you all are hooking up with hot chicks.

I can't speak for that, but I can tell you have some sort of self-esteem problem. You're almost begging someone to validate your implied superiority. Which ain't gonna happen on CAG from what I've seen.

alfonsosoriano
08-09-2004, 02:15 PM
Yeah, this girl is hot.

GameDude
08-09-2004, 02:16 PM
Dude... I'm sure just about every one of us has gone out with a girl that looked as good or better than she does... she is NOT hot but she is pretty.

I want to see a pic of you then, at least.

You guys must all be pretty big studs if you all are hooking up with hot chicks.

I can't speak for that, but I can tell you have some sort of self-esteem problem. You're almost begging someone to validate your implied superiority. Which ain't gonna happen on CAG from what I've seen.

Well, yeah, I do have some major self-esteem problems. I was seeing a shrink for while and I'm on zoloft.

PsyClerk
08-09-2004, 02:18 PM
For the love of all that is holy, don't rely on a woman as a measuring stick for your self-esteem.

YOU BEST STEP OFF HOLMES!

GameDude
08-09-2004, 02:20 PM
For the love of all that is holy, don't rely on a woman as a measuring stick for your self-esteem.

YOU BEST STEP OFF HOLMES!

what should I do then?

LV-426RS
08-09-2004, 02:21 PM
check this

http://hypnotherapy.net/12se.shtml

GameDude
08-09-2004, 02:21 PM
For the love of all that is holy, don't rely on a woman as a measuring stick for your self-esteem.

YOU BEST STEP OFF HOLMES!

what should I do then?

I know some of my questions are kinda stupid, but my shrink said that I was "socially retarded." No lie.

LV-426RS
08-09-2004, 02:22 PM
and from fast times


Mike Damone: I mean don't just walk in. You move across the room. And you don't talk to her. You use your face. You use your body. You use everything. That's what I do. I mean I just send out this vibe and I have personally found that women do respond. I mean, something happens.

Mark Ratner: Well, naturally something happens. I mean, you put the vibe out to 30 million chicks, something is gonna happen.

Mike Damone: That's the idea, Rat. That's the attitude.

Mark Ratner: The attitude?

Mike Damone: Yeah! The attitude dictates that you don't care whether she comes, stays, lays, or prays. I mean whatever happens, your toes are still tappin'. Now when you got that, then you have the attitude.

Cornfedwb
08-09-2004, 02:25 PM
Wow.. who cares.. really?

PsyClerk
08-09-2004, 02:25 PM
Socially retarded probably means that you aren't as socially advanced as others your age. It doesn't mean you are inept.

Try meeting real people instead of internet chicks. And have some pride. If they start to play games, I say to hell with them.

/been there, done that, got the t-shirt

GameDude
08-09-2004, 02:27 PM
check this

http://hypnotherapy.net/12se.shtml

thanks. I'll check that out.

Trakan
08-09-2004, 02:28 PM
I don't think the chick is bad looking.

johnnyoski
08-09-2004, 02:29 PM
Ditch the shrink too, especially if she's calling you 'socially retarded'. I can think of better terms than that and I don't have a degree in psych.

5_Against_1
08-09-2004, 02:36 PM
Shes got a big forehead it looks like, kinda like Mena Suarvi or Heather Graham, I forget which one.

It's called a 5head, and ive seen much much worse

bradr
08-09-2004, 02:37 PM
If you do have some self-esteem issues, going out with this girl may not be the best thing for you. It may seem fun for a night or whatever but with this bad start to the "relationship" it can only get worse from here on out if you two do go out.

She could be the type who wants guys to get hooked on her and play around with their emotions just to make herself feel good (also poor self-esteem related) and in the end could be disasterous for your self esteem when you're begging her not to dump you. Seems like she's playing a game right now to see if she can dominate you. It's sort of like that episode of Seinfeld about who's got the most "hand". I'm not trying to be funny or anything, could happen.

Psyclerk's right, try to go out and meet some "real" girls. Ones that you'll be able to talk to and that make you feel good about yourself.

GameDude
08-09-2004, 02:41 PM
okay guys. I don't really hang out with many people any more. I've been out of college for about a year, and as such, haven't really talked to anyone that I used to hang out with either.

In other words, I guess, what's the best way to meet new people without it being odd that you're alone?

LV-426RS
08-09-2004, 02:43 PM
Start hanging out with people at work. Or if their are certain stores you always go to start chatting it up with other people you always see at that store.

WildWop
08-09-2004, 02:44 PM
If you do have some self-esteem issues, going out with this girl may not be the best thing for you. ...


Exactly. Unless my radar has been jammed (and only one man would DAR give me the raspberry... LONE STAR!) she screams J.A.P. and those are nothing but trouble. 23 and you have a professional headshot, yet are not a model or actress? You've got issues, says I!

darkmere
08-09-2004, 02:51 PM
the whole shrink thing reminds me of a conversation i had with my friend last nite...he went to a shrink for a while because he had to or he would get in trouble for something he did...long story for him to share, not me...anyway, he told me that going to a shrink is pretty useless...they don't talk much and you just sit there and speak your mind until you one day, weeks, or even months or years later you come to an epiphany...all the crap that you've spewed out will suddenly sink in and you'll realize what your problem has been. it's still up to you to change it. my advice from this...if you qualify for the drugs and need them, go to a shrink, otherwise find some good friends that won't make too much fun of you no matter what you tell them and will really help you...i'm probably "socially retarted", but i don't need a shrink to tell me that...i've been shy as long as i can remember so i have trouble approaching strangers...i'm not gonna give a shrink $100 an hour so i can come to this realization in 6 months

as far as the girl goes...she's hot...no model, but if you hook up with her you get my props man...i'd probably wait a week and then drop her an email or phone call...act like nothing happened and just be like you wanna go catch a movie or something...in the meantime hang with some friends and hit the mall or bars/clubs...work off their confidence or whatever you're lacking to overcome your "social retardedness" and talk to some chicks...if you're friends are cool they won't mind, otherwise find new ones while you're out

Reality's Fringe
08-09-2004, 02:51 PM
Everyone has a different definition of hot, so questioning why someone here doesn't find her super-atractive is an exercise in futility. From my stand point, she's "slutty-hot" which means she has a nice face/body but she's probably got more germs in her cooter than a Saigon public toilet. I can't make judgements on her intelligence either, but she has that kind of "Wow, I'm like, so totaly vapid!" look to her. I could be wrong of course....except for that slutty thing, I'm positive about that. And GameDude, if you ave self-esteem issues, for the love of God, listen to everyone telling you that meeting women on the internet is NOT the way to go.

souNReAL
08-09-2004, 02:53 PM
id do her, but i was expecting that hot asian chick with the big boobies! now she's HOT!

Arakias
08-09-2004, 02:57 PM
Check out a "cuddling party" if you are in the NYC area.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/Northeast/08/09/cuddling.parties.2.reut/index.html

DenisDFat
08-09-2004, 02:58 PM
She probably found some other guy who will treat her like dirt.

chicks love jerks.

darkmere
08-09-2004, 02:59 PM
as always, reality's fringe speaks of wisdom...it only matters to you if she's hot or not...who cares what anyone else thinks of her...and based on my experience...avoid internet chicks...i learned after 2 attempts, which looking back was 2 more than i should have tried...internet is just a big ass booty call forum when it comes to meeting people...not good for starting relationships, unprotected sex, or people with self esteem issues...and if you figure out what it takes to meet a real chick in person, if she mentions ever that she meets guys on the internet, get some condoms, hook up, and then run like hell, or just run like hell

GameDude
08-09-2004, 03:00 PM
id do her, but i was expecting that hot asian chick with the big boobies! now she's HOT!
http://www.bakla.net/bebot_files/ann12.jpg


http://www.bakla.net/bebot_files/ann17.jpg

http://www.bakla.net/bebot_files/ann18.jpg

http://www.bakla.net/bebot_files/China2.jpg

Like her?

mousin
08-09-2004, 03:02 PM
ahahhahha omg, can i show the last one?

Moxio
08-09-2004, 03:03 PM
Aggh this is turning into a babe thread.

GameDude
08-09-2004, 03:05 PM
Aggh this is turning into a babe thread.


http://www.bakla.net

mousin
08-09-2004, 03:05 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/mousin/biclk.gif


ahhahha theres bakla.net for ya!

GameDude
08-09-2004, 03:06 PM
ahahhahha omg, can i show the last one?

Sure. :lol:

Moxio
08-09-2004, 03:08 PM
Holy shit that's nasty.

Wshakspear
08-09-2004, 03:10 PM
Oh my god! Sneak attack Sausage!!!

LV-426RS
08-09-2004, 03:10 PM
look what you did to my eyes!!!
http://www.ftmeade.army.mil/SoundOFF/archives/SO2002/Jul18/images/melanoma2.jpg

sj41
08-09-2004, 03:10 PM
Are you out of your mind. That's horrible. :-& :arrow: :puke:

LV-426RS
08-09-2004, 03:11 PM
^^^Why quote the pic man????^^^ WHY????

Steggy
08-09-2004, 03:12 PM
......

no words need to be said about that last picture...

bradr
08-09-2004, 03:12 PM
^^^Why quote the pic man????^^^ WHY????

It's replicating uncontrollably!

Reality's Fringe
08-09-2004, 03:13 PM
MY word, do I see a cock and balls in that photograph?! Heavens!

sj41
08-09-2004, 03:13 PM
^^^Why quote the pic man????^^^ WHY????So people would see it again. :twisted:

LV-426RS
08-09-2004, 03:13 PM
^^^Why quote the pic man????^^^ WHY????So people would see it again. :twisted:
you evil bastard :)

Gameboy415
08-09-2004, 03:13 PM
Yipes.

sj41
08-09-2004, 03:15 PM
*********MOUSIN. EDIT THAT PICK. I EDITED THE QUOTE.************

darkmere
08-09-2004, 03:16 PM
hehe...gotta love those crazy thai lady boys...i wonder what your shrink would say about that...

GameDude
08-09-2004, 03:20 PM
haha. This is one of the funniest threads I've read in long time! :lol:

Storamin
08-09-2004, 03:21 PM
Dude... I'm sure just about every one of us has gone out with a girl that looked as good or better than she does... she is NOT hot but she is pretty.

I want to see a pic of you then, at least.

You guys must all be pretty big studs if you all are hooking up with hot chicks.

Doesn't take a stud to hook up with a hot chick, it simply takes confidence (although money and personality play roles sometimes).

You can be the ugliest guy in the world and still pick up HOT chicks...
Money doesn't count, just making the girl think you have money is where it is. I'm a broke ass college kid, but women think I've got money. Boy, are they wrong haha.

crazytalkx
08-09-2004, 03:21 PM
:puke: THAT'S HORRIBLE!!!!!!!

guardian_owl
08-09-2004, 03:26 PM
](*,) , AHHHH, we need an emoticon for stabbing your own eyes out.

Nirvanaguy777
08-09-2004, 07:58 PM
shes ok, could be hotter

slidecage
08-09-2004, 08:08 PM
ARe we talking about the woman or the dog lol :lol:

GameDude
08-09-2004, 08:21 PM
shes ok, could be hotter

let's see your gf.

SneakyPenguin
08-09-2004, 08:23 PM
shes ok, could be hotter

let's see your gf.

Seriously, what the fuck does it matter what his GF looks like? His opinion is that she could be hotter. Nowhere did he say his gf is hotter, so why bring her into this?

ww3676
08-09-2004, 08:43 PM
funny stuff, most hilarious pic ever... great photoshop job as well!

GameDude
08-09-2004, 08:49 PM
shes ok, could be hotter

let's see your gf.

Seriously, what the shaq-fu does it matter what his GF looks like? His opinion is that she could be hotter. Nowhere did he say his gf is hotter, so why bring her into this?

If he comments, then so can I. Furthermore, if she is just "okay" then that implies that his girlfriend is hotter, since most people don't go out with others who are just "okay."

In other words, I want him to back it up.

sj41
08-09-2004, 09:29 PM
shes ok, could be hotter

let's see your gf.

Seriously, what the shaq-fu does it matter what his GF looks like? His opinion is that she could be hotter. Nowhere did he say his gf is hotter, so why bring her into this?

If he comments, then so can I. Furthermore, if she is just "okay" then that implies that his girlfriend is hotter, since most people don't go out with others who are just "okay."

In other words, I want him to back it up.How does that imply that his girlfriend is hotter?

pete5883
08-09-2004, 10:19 PM
C'mon now, that many of you haven't seen bakla before? Geez.

darkmere
08-11-2004, 01:58 PM
only one quote seems to be appropriate for mousin's post:

Dante Hicks: Hey, whatcha rent?
[reads the cover to Randal's videotape]
Dante Hicks: "Best of Both Worlds"?
Randal Graves: Hermaphroditic porn. Starlets with both organs. You should see the box. Beautiful chicks with dicks that put mine to shame.
Dante Hicks: And you rented this?
Randal Graves: Hey, I like to expand my horizons.

magilacudy
08-11-2004, 02:10 PM
C'mon now, that many of you haven't seen bakla before? Geez.

I haven't, but now my life is much much worse for having seen it.

*cries and babbles incoherently*

QuiteBitterBeing
08-12-2004, 01:53 AM
I'd hit it.

biggestinuyashafan
08-12-2004, 02:51 AM
I'd hit it.

i hope you are talking about that first pic and just quick posted. if you are talking about that last one,you need to be the one seeing the shrink. which IMO (since i have had to go to one for a long time) are money sucking jerks. i think that first pic was alright and i'm not trying to piss the OP off. i'm not posting a pic of my g/f on here,especially if there might be another DLF hanging around here. also,i think that the OP should chill with getting so mad at people saying his fantasy girl is only ok. i have self-esteem problems too man,but let up on us who don't share your opinion.

QuiteBitterBeing
08-12-2004, 03:00 AM
I'd hit it.

i hope you are talking about that first pic and just quick posted. if you are talking about that last one,you need to be the one seeing the shrink. which IMO (since i have had to go to one for a long time) are money sucking jerks. i think that first pic was alright and i'm not trying to piss the OP off. i'm not posting a pic of my g/f on here,especially if there might be another DLF hanging around here. also,i think that the OP should chill with getting so mad at people saying his fantasy girl is only ok. i have self-esteem problems too man,but let up on us who don't share your opinion.

You've got to be f*cking kidding me. Do you have any idea what the f*ck you're talking about? This is my f*cking opinion, not yours. Deal with it mother f*cker. How, in any way, have I attacked you before this post? If you're seeing a shrink, we don't need to know that. Furthermore, don't spout bullsh*t here at CAG. Are you off of your f*cking meds?

biggestinuyashafan
08-12-2004, 03:03 AM
i was j/k dude,chill.

QuiteBitterBeing
08-12-2004, 03:07 AM
HOLY SH*T DUDE... are you talking about the LAST PIC POSTED? I'm talking about the first pic posted on the first page.

biggestinuyashafan
08-12-2004, 03:08 AM
oh yeah,actually i am still taking my meds. also,go on and talk trash over the computer,it doesn't bother me at all.

biggestinuyashafan
08-12-2004, 03:09 AM
the first pic was fine,that didn't bother me one bit. i was talking about the last one and i was joking about that.

QuiteBitterBeing
08-12-2004, 03:10 AM
oh yeah,actually i am still taking my meds. also,go on and talk trash over the computer,it doesn't bother me at all.

My apologies.. mistook your post. I thought your post was regarding the first page pic. Doh!

cag1000
08-12-2004, 03:10 AM
she is very hot
1 rule i have learned
watch out for bitches with dogs
stay away from them
if u go to a bitches place and its just her and her dog there in her place
find another bitch

QuiteBitterBeing
08-12-2004, 03:11 AM
Last comment on the last pic posted.. dude, you got us good. :lol:

Graystone
08-12-2004, 10:00 AM
pretty not baddest chick in world though.

Mr. Anderson
08-12-2004, 11:34 AM
This topic is STILL going?! CHRIST.