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View Full Version : Controller scammer? UPDATE: Seller shut down!


thelonepig
01-27-2008, 08:36 PM
So I recently purchased a Playstation 3 and needed to pick up a second controller. I don't really care about having the rumble feature at the moment (I'll get a new controller this summer or fall with MGS4), so I went to ebay to find a cheap, new controller.

Long story short, I found a 'make an offer' auction for a brand new PS3 Sixaxis Wireless controller. I made an offer and won the item. The condition is labeled as "New." The auction states "new" in both the item title and item description. The picture is a stock photo of a Sixaxis in the box.

So now I'm waiting for the controller and I figured I'd check out the seller a bit more. They have 100% feedback, so I wasn't worried. Now I am getting a bit leery.

Here's the ebay link to the seller's feedback: LINK (http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=cycleyard&ftab=AllFeedback&myworld=true&seeallfeedback=See%20All%20Feedback)

Since I purchased from them, there has been a feedback posted that the "item did not appear to be new. Was not in package." Whoever this was posted a positive, so I guess it couldn't have been that bad.

However, here's the clincher. If you go through their past purchases, they have an unholy amount of winning bids on broken X360 and PS3 controllers.

What do you all think?

UPDATE (1/29):

I received the controller today through Fedex. I took pictures, thanks to the recommendation of a fellow CAG.

The controller came via Fedex as opposed to the advertised UPS. Not a big deal, but maybe worth noting. The controller was wrapped in bubble wrap and is obviously not "brand new" as touted in the auction description. A USB cable for charging the controller was not included.

I dispatched the following email to the seller this morning and will update with their response.

Thank you for your prompt response earlier regarding the Fedex tracking number for the Playstation 3 controller. I received the item today.

Unfortunately, the item was not "brand new" as described in your listing. It was not in its original packaging, did not instructions, and most importantly did not include the USB charging cable that comes with brand new Sixaxis controllers. Without the cable this item is worthless to me.

I expect a full refund (including shipping costs) as well as an additional amount to be able to ship your "brand new" controller back to you.

Additionally, I find it rather odd that you advertise this item as brand new. As I reviewed your feedback I found that you have purchased a large number of broken controllers. Are you simply repairing these and passing them off as new?

I trust I will hear back from you soon.
No, I don't expect them to comply to my full request. If they do, then they get a good review for customer service. The question is, can I push this whole thing back until the new ebay feedback system kicks in? If so, I can negative all over his butt without any fear of retaliation.

UPDATE (1/29 afternoon):

I've been communicating with the seller regarding the item. I have always hated email and forums because it's difficult to determine emotion. Anyway, I received the following response:

Hi please dont do this the item you have recieved is brand new and please go to the store wright now and ask them if the PS3 controler comes with usb cables and or any thing else in that matter.If you reply and they do i will give you $100.Thats because they dont come with anything exept the controlers.Ill wait till you go to the store and check and reply then we can talk about the rest.THank you
Coincidentally, I did call my local Kmart (just to be a jerk) and was informed that the controller does in fact come with a USB charge cable. I realize that the Kmart rep had no idea what he was talking about, but thought it would be fun. I did not say anything to the seller regarding this, however.

My response was a little more direct on his activities this time:

My apologies regarding the inclusion of the cable. You are absolutely correct. When it didn't come with the controller, I had looked at a few sites online and some stated that it was included while the rest did not have say otherwise. I asked a buddy of mine, which is probably what I should have done in the first place.

I am still a bit upset regarding the open nature of the project. Though you tout it as a brand new item, all evidence points otherwise.

Again, I apologize for my jumping the gun. How would you like to resolve the situation?
See what I did there? I called Ice2Dragon my friend. I hope some day that he will consider me the same :D. Coincidentally, did you get the dualshock and was it new in box?

His response was as follows:

Thats not a problem the controler does not come with anything unfortinatly.Even in any store.The other thing is i buy these whole sale 5 in each package from a suplier so i get a good deal like that.What you saw on my account is i bought them at whole sale like 40 in each auction so im going to sell them one at a time to make money on it.You can even check out my auctions next week and you will see them. So please believe me the controler i have sent you is brand new i mean just look at it please and tell me does it look like its been used or even touched.You can even check my feedback and see that every one is happy about the controlers.Thanks ill wait for your reply.

Seriously? There is nothing in the box aside from the controller? No forms, advertisements, etc.?

Am I interpreting this wrong or did he just state that he buys broken controllers in bulk and then sells them as new?

To which I stated:

If the wholesale auction you are referring to on your account are the same ones I am seeing, those are defective. Each of those auctions describes the product as such.

What it comes down to though is that I am not willing to save $8 over retail price to receive a controller that is not in its package and not backed up with a store return guarantee.

What I am willing to do on my end is charge the controller and see if it works satisfactorily. If so, I will keep it if I can get a partial refund in the amount of $10. If not, I want a full refund plus return shipping as previously mentioned.

Also, I would encourage you to add that this is an open-box item to your item description. I for one would not have purchased from you had I known that beforehand.

What do you all think? The total after shipping was $42. I figured saving $8 was worth waiting a few days. Now I'm wishing I'd just gone to the store and purchased a new one.

Thoughts?

UPDATE (1/30):

Through a series of ebay messages and responses, I think everything has been worked out. The seller agreed to allow me to return the controller and he would refund the full price plus return shipping. Keep in mind this was after many messages and a few "I'll refund you $5 after you give me positive feedback"-style messages.

Funny thing is, once I said that I was going to send the controller back he sent me another message that stated something to the extent of "Fine, if you don't want $5 for nothing. Just send it back." I told him I would send it back and then let him know I wasn't interested in giving him positive feedback for the transaction and that I don't think he should expect any. Yeah, I probably shouldn't have done that, but I didn't want to send everything back and then be stuck with a "I'll refund you after you give me positive feedback" situation.

I received the following message shortly thereafter:

Thats fine.You dont seem to not want the $10 refund.I dont know if you noticed but the auction does not describe that the item is in sealed package smart one. All it states is that the item is brand new and it is.And if you are so smart next time you buy an item dont expect gold.The item dont come with what ever you want them to come with. Like USB and INSTRUCTION.

I responded in like:

Stating the item is brand new AND including a stock picture of a Sixaxis controller in a sealed package is enough per ebay and PayPal to file a claim. I contacted both groups regarding the situation to find out their stance in case it came to this. Nothing has been filed at this point, but just so you know.

When I purchase an item I expect to receive what is described in conjunction with what is shown. I would say that 100% of ebay buyers would agree with that statement.

The USB and paperwork were completely my fault. I assumed, based on information I found from online stores and forums. I apologized (and continue to do so) for my lack of understanding in that aspect.

Your previous message indicated a $5 refund in exchange for positive feedback. Nothing was mentioned regarding a $10 refund. As that was one of the options I originally provided, I would be willing to go that route.

Yeah. There are a lot of things I should have done differently. I hate debating/arguing as I typically get flustered and then say things that I shouldn't - usually things that come back to get me later. Still, I think I must have made some good points (or the seller is getting as sick of me as I am of him) as I received another email this morning:

Ok you know what lets stop been kids ill give you the $10 refund.This is the first refund that i would of done if you are intrested let me know.Thanks and im so sorry for acting so childish.
We'll see how this comes through. If it does, I think he has me to a neutral on the feedback scale. I don't plan on leaving any at this point unless he provides me a negative. Should I cut my losses at this point or should I report him to the ebay Trust and Safety team?

Update (2/2/08):

After 3 days with no response, I messaged the seller regarding the refund. They had forgotten "which one" I was and asked for my email. Luckily, they processed the refund immediately.

Upon receiving the refund, I reported the seller to the ebay trust and safety team.

Update (2/5/08):

I just received notification from the ebay trust & safety team today that the seller was closed down.

Give it up for the little guy!

SlimJim0725
01-27-2008, 08:50 PM
i would have to say to contact them about it. if it is not in its packaging when it arrives, tell them that you would like a refund if necessary, that is the only advice i can give. if they refuse, leave a negative, but expect one in return.

Ice2Dragon
01-27-2008, 09:01 PM
Wow theyre rating sucks lol. Thats terrible.

Just wait til you get the item, if its not new, then ask for a refund.

Plain and simple. otherwise, be happy.

bigdaddybruce44
01-27-2008, 09:13 PM
Wow, looking at their feedback, it seems that they have a number of auctions that were listed "new," but the feedback says otherwise. It's odd that they would leave them positives, though.

thelonepig
01-27-2008, 10:42 PM
Wow, looking at their feedback, it seems that they have a number of auctions that were listed "new," but the feedback says otherwise. It's odd that they would leave them positives, though.

Precisely what I was wondering.

Anyway, yeah. I've got to wait to get it before I go any further, I was just preparing myself and hopefully giving people a heads up regarding this ebayer.

Does anyone know how the 'significantly not as described' dispute is settled through PayPal? The seller stated they will provide a refund less shipping fees. Will disputing get those back as well?

Ice2Dragon
01-27-2008, 11:01 PM
Precisely what I was wondering.

Anyway, yeah. I've got to wait to get it before I go any further, I was just preparing myself and hopefully giving people a heads up regarding this ebayer.

Does anyone know how the 'significantly not as described' dispute is settled through PayPal? The seller stated they will provide a refund less shipping fees. Will disputing get those back as well?

The dispute allows a 100 percent refund.

So yes.

Vinny
01-27-2008, 11:11 PM
Wow, looking at their feedback, it seems that they have a number of auctions that were listed "new," but the feedback says otherwise. It's odd that they would leave them positives, though.

Feedback hostages. Just read the positives... they're not very positive at all.

bigdaddybruce44
01-27-2008, 11:48 PM
Wow, yeah, they did buy up a lot of broken controllers and third-party crap. I noticed a few auctions in which they bought these things:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330204490568

Here's to hoping this isn't what ends up at your door.

thelonepig
01-28-2008, 12:33 AM
I also find it interesting that they didn't start selling controllers until they purchased a lot of 41 broken ones.

Thanks for the heads up on the full refund with the dispute. I'm going to wait to see what kind of condition the controller shows up in. Hopefully brand new, factory sealed. If not, they're going to have an email requesting a complete refund and return shipping. Otherwise they'll have a dispute and probably their first negative. And no, I don't care if I have a retaliation negative on my account.

I do believe we have a controller chop shop here.

Ice2Dragon
01-28-2008, 12:57 AM
Thanks pig, now im worried.. i just bought a DS White ps3 controller.. and it says new.. got it for 62 shipped priority.. now im hella worried it wont be new even though it says new..

Damnit!

daminion
01-28-2008, 10:48 AM
The dispute allows a 100 percent refund.

So yes.

This isn't exactly true.

You will receive a 100% refund of what you paid, plus any shipping costs that you paid. BUT you will need to pay for return shipping on your dime. Return shipping must be trackable.

Herbsnverbs
01-28-2008, 01:33 PM
If the item is NOT new, file a paypal dispute for NAD (not as described.)

Don't get all worked up, chances are it may be new or may not be new but in excellent condition, and you can still get a partial refund for the difference of price between new and used.

I would suggest taking pictures of the packaging, controller, and the actual shipping package it came in, upload via www.imageshack.us (http://www.imageshack.us) or some other pic host website, and include them in your dispute. This will inform PP reps exactly what was NAD and show the pictures of proof.

If worse comes to worse, you should still be okay! :D

thelonepig
01-28-2008, 01:53 PM
If the item is NOT new, file a paypal dispute for NAD (not as described.)

Don't get all worked up, chances are it may be new or may not be new but in excellent condition, and you can still get a partial refund for the difference of price between new and used.

I would suggest taking pictures of the packaging, controller, and the actual shipping package it came in, upload via www.imageshack.us (http://www.imageshack.us) or some other pic host website, and include them in your dispute. This will inform PP reps exactly what was NAD and show the pictures of proof.

If worse comes to worse, you should still be okay! :D

I wasn't so much trying to get worked up over it as making sure I had my butt covered for when it shows. Worst case scenario type stuff, y'know?

Besides, if I'd waited I wouldn't have gotten the idea from you to take pictures of everything. I'm going to be sure to do that.

Honestly though, I don't mind a used controller so long as I pay much less for it.

Herbsnverbs
01-28-2008, 02:54 PM
Maybe I stated that wrongly, I was basically trying to say don't worry. I tend to do this alot with ANY purchase over the internet, because it seems nowadays more people are out to get your money, or more money for something then what it is worth.

I fully understand what you mean when you say that you don't mind if it's used, just as long as your not paying the same amount for a new one.

Hopefully though, you won't have the same problems that other eBayers did. If yours is used as well, I would also write eBay an email and bring this to there attention, just link them to the feedback from other eBayers, about how they had the same problem as you, but feared retalation feedback. (Atleast that is what it seems like by leaving postive feedback, w/ an actual negative expirence.)

Anyways - good luck, and hope everything works out for you.

iazybandit
01-28-2008, 05:34 PM
They probably bought the busted controllers, bought new controllers from store, placed busted ones in the new controllers packaging and returned to store. With this, they probably ended up with brand new controllers without packaging.

Then again, stores take driver license information to keep track of how many times you return items to the store.

loserboy
01-28-2008, 05:41 PM
They probably bought the busted controllers, bought new controllers from store, placed busted ones in the new controllers packaging and returned to store. With this, they probably ended up with brand new controllers without packaging.

Then again, stores take driver license information to keep track of how many times you return items to the store.

Sure, but between Target, Gamestop, Walmart, Best Buy, Circuit City, Amazon, etc etc...I bet you can exchange quite a few of them this way and not raise too much suspicion.

thelonepig
01-29-2008, 02:12 PM
Item received. Updated OP.

Ice2Dragon
01-29-2008, 02:21 PM
Um, A charge cable doesnt come with new controllers.. u should have one that came with the ps3.

iazybandit
01-29-2008, 02:22 PM
PayPal dispute. He wont do anything about it.

thelonepig
01-29-2008, 02:52 PM
Um, A charge cable doesnt come with new controllers.. u should have one that came with the ps3.

You know, I wondered about that. I searched around online and found some sites that said it did and others that didn't have it listed, so I figured I'd be safe and just say that it didn't.

I have now been educated. :D

bigdaddybruce44
01-29-2008, 05:15 PM
Be prepared for their negative feedback, but good for you. It's the scared people who let them play feedback ransom with them and created a false sense of security for other buyers. Hopefully, more people will be like you in the future, stand up to these cheats, and they won't be making any more profits on eBay.

thelonepig
01-29-2008, 06:19 PM
Be prepared for their negative feedback, but good for you. It's the scared people who let them play feedback ransom with them and created a false sense of security for other buyers. Hopefully, more people will be like you in the future, stand up to these cheats, and they won't be making any more profits on eBay.

Thanks! I'm hoping that ebay's new feedback (can only provide positive to a buyer) will really help people get a backbone. I'm hoping that folks don't get feeling a little too empowered though. I think the biggest problem with ebay feedback to buyers is that it is used in retaliation. The other problem is that sellers forget that there is a difference between difficult customers and bad customers.

iazybandit
01-29-2008, 07:13 PM
Seller never stated he bought them from supplier broken. If you look at cellphone accessories such as bluetooth headphones and such, sellers sell them as bulk. In other words no packaging and stuff. Just the products. I'm not sticking up for the seller, just point out the facts.

As for documents for the controller...I bought a DualShock3 and it did not contain any documents or even USB cable. As mentioned by others, it does not include USB cable. Probably know about the USB cable but here it is again - http://www.ps3land.com/article-989.php

Ice2Dragon
01-30-2008, 02:45 PM
AFTER you get the refund, report him to ebay. Seriously.

hes showing pictures of BRAND NEW SEALED SIX AXIS CONTROLLERS.

And what you got obviously wasn't. Technically its fraud, hes selling an item he doesnt have, he has used controllers.

Yes friend. Glad to see you listened after two days of me saying it doesnt come with a usb.. Why call kmart to verify anything? ANYTHING? This is seriously why some people on this site offer really bad advice.

Send the controller back, get your refund, DO NOT TAKE THE 10 DOLLAR THEY ARE OFFERING -_-V Whatever you do, if they do that, refund it ASAP. Then report them to ebay.

Let them know what happened. How they tried to give you extra, they lied about the product, etc. Its sellers like that that have cripple ebay -_-V

thelonepig
01-30-2008, 02:59 PM
Yes friend. Glad to see you listened after two days of me saying it doesnt come with a usb.. Why call kmart to verify anything? ANYTHING? This is seriously why some people on this site offer really bad advice.

Actually, I believed you from the get-go when you mentioned it doesn't come with the USB. I just thought it would be fun to see what kind of response I would get from a retailer (be it Kmart, Best Buy, whatever). Things were so glitchy with the forum yesterday that I barely managed to get the update in.

Anyway, I'll take everything into consideration. On one hand, I don't really want to keep going on this. On the other hand, something needs to be said about this kind of activity on ebay. You can't purposely omit things from your description like "factory sealed" and show a factory sealed product and expect to get away with sending anything else. Somebody needs to let the buyers know that stating things like "leave me feedback first" is a method of extortion.

Herbsnverbs
01-30-2008, 03:01 PM
The above is good advice, after you recieve the refund, report him to eBay. Do not file a NAD via eBay or anything like that, simply send them an email through contact us. Then select the correct heading/categories and inform them of a problem you had with a seller. Also make sure you let them know you have already recieved a refund, but that you feel that seller is not following eBay procedures.

(Alot of times I have recieved half-ass'd responses from eBay customer service awnsering the wrong problem .. so making sure they understand you are not aiming for a refund or anything, should help in getting this guy banned or something , or even just warned that what he is doing is NOT okay.)

So - new eBay feedback, can only leave postive feedback to a buyer, eh? At first, I was glad to hear about this for the fact of retalation negative feedback from bad sellers. However, what happens if it takes 20 days to recieve payment, (after filing a NPB) and finally the buyer pays, you ship within 2 days of sending, it arrives to them in 2-4 days, and they neg you for long ass shipping time because they know damn well you can't leave a negative and there pissed about the fact of a NPB. Don't get me wrong, any improvement is improvement .. but here lately there has been some pretty shisty buyers, just like the buyers who try and reverse payment after rec'ing the product .. I have this feeling, that this will shed light on a whole new type of screwed up/scamming-butt buyers.

wubb
01-30-2008, 03:01 PM
We'll see how this comes through. If it does, I think he has me to a neutral on the feedback scale. I don't plan on leaving any at this point unless he provides me a negative. Should I cut my losses at this point or should I report him to the ebay Trust and Safety team?

You had to pull teeth for it, but he's now complying with what you wanted him to do so I'd skip reporting him.

Still he is a shitty seller to try to pull the "I just said it was brand new I didn't say it was sealed!" crap. I hate assholes like that.

thelonepig
01-30-2008, 03:04 PM
Seller never stated he bought them from supplier broken. If you look at cellphone accessories such as bluetooth headphones and such, sellers sell them as bulk. In other words no packaging and stuff. Just the products. I'm not sticking up for the seller, just point out the facts.

This is actually where I had voiced a bit of concern. I didn't mean for it to sound as condemning as it came across.

The seller pointed out that the other auctions I found on his account were him purchasing items wholesale. If you look at any of the large controller lots he purchased, the description states the items are defective and sold "as-is". I wasn't able to figure out if he was meaning that he purchased them wholesale through another source as well though.

Aside from that, his company is called "Cycle Parts R' Us". At least, that's what was on the box.

iazybandit
01-30-2008, 03:27 PM
if you're sending the controller back, I suggest filing a PayPal dispute. Keep all your emails. Dont escalate the dispute but as a placeholder to let him know that you're serious.

Send controller with delivery confirmation. If its delivered and he doesnt refund you, at least you have PayPal dispute and proof.

In the dispute, I would put

"Item was not in the same condition as buyer has stated in auction. After numerous emails back and forth, both parties have come to an agreement that buyer will ship back item and upon receipt/arrival, seller will refund total amount of auction including shipping plus the cost of return shipping."

daminion
01-30-2008, 03:59 PM
You should leave him a negative just to provide the warning to everyone else who might buy from him.

Per Ebay's own information on condition this item was not new.


Condition
Items should be listed as "New" if they meet all of the following criteria. If an item does not meet all of these conditions, it should be listed as "Used."

No markings Item should not have holes, cuts or markings on the bar code or packaging
No signs of use Item should be new, unopened, and unused
Complete contents Item should have original packaging and include all original packaging materials

Read Frequently Asked Questions (http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/item_specifics_faqs.html) about Item Specifics.

bigdaddybruce44
01-30-2008, 05:02 PM
Still he is a shitty seller to try to pull the "I just said it was brand new I didn't say it was sealed!" crap. I hate assholes like that.

100% behind you, brother. What nonsense.

thelonepig
02-05-2008, 10:08 PM
Update:

The seller was shut down. Ebay Trust & Safety emailed me today about it.

Ice2Dragon
02-06-2008, 12:07 AM
Update:

The seller was shut down. Ebay Trust & Safety emailed me today about it.

ROFL

ARE YOU SERIOUS?

P
W
N
E
D

FeNoM91
02-06-2008, 12:38 AM
Seller = Pwnt!
Nice work. Getting rid of these scammers, even if it is one at a time!