Belichick been taping signals since 2000, time to give the Eagles their rings [Mobile/Archive]

Ikohn4ever

02-13-2008, 11:41 PM

Belichick Was Taping Since 2000

LAURIE KELLMAN
The Associated Press
WASHINGTON - Bill Belichick has been illegally taping opponents' defensive signals since he became the New England Patriots' coach in 2000, according to Sen. Arlen Specter, who said NFL commissioner Roger Goodell told him that during a meeting Wednesday.

"There was confirmation that there has been taping since 2000, when Coach Belichick took over," Specter said.
Specter said Goodell gave him that information during the 1-hour, 40-minute meeting, which was requested by Specter so the commissioner could explain his reasons for destroying the Spygate tapes and notes.

"There were a great many questions answered by Commissioner Goodell," Specter, the senior Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee, told reporters after the meeting. "I found a lot of questions unanswerable because of the tapes and notes had been destroyed."
Goodell said Belichick told him he believed the taping was legal; Goodell said he did not concur.

"He said that's always been his interpretation since he's been the head coach," the commissioner said. "We are going to agree to disagree on the facts."
Specter, from Pennsylvania, wants to talk to other league officials about what exactly was taped and which games may have been compromised.
"We have a right to have honest football games," he said.
Goodell noted that "we were the ones that disclosed" the Patriots' illegal taping of the New York Jets' defensive signals in Week 1 of last season. Further, Goodell said, they had an admission by Belichick.
"I have nothing to hide," Goodell said.
Goodell also told Specter that that he doesn't regret destroying the Spygate tapes or the notes.

"I think it was the right thing to do," Goodell said.
Still, Specter wants to know why penalties were imposed on Belichick before the full extent of the wrongdoing was known and the tapes destroyed in a two-week span. Asked if he thinks there was a coverup, Specter demurred.
"There was an enormous amount of haste," Specter said.
He scoffed at the reasons Goodell gave for destroying the tapes and notes, particularly about trying to keep them out of competitors' hands and because Belichick had admitted to the taping.

"What's that got to do with it? There's an admission of guilt, you preserve the evidence," Specter said. As for keeping the tapes out of the hands of others: "All you have to do is lock up the tapes."
Belichick was fined $500,000 and the team was fined $250,000 because of the Spygate incident. The Patriots also forfeited a first-round draft pick.
Specter has questioned the quality of the NFL's investigation into the matter and raised the possibility of congressional hearings if he wasn't satisfied with Goodell's answers. Specter also raised the threat of Congress canceling the league's antitrust exemption and reiterated that in the meeting with Goodell.

Goodell also said he has not heard from Matt Walsh, the former Patriots employee who performed some videotaping duties for the team.
Walsh told The Associated Press last week during the Pro Bowl in Hawaii that he couldn't talk about allegations that he taped a walkthrough practice by the St. Louis Rams before the 2002 Super Bowl. New England, a two-touchdown underdog, won that game 20-17.

Goodell said he has offered Walsh a deal whereby "he has to tell the truth and he has to return anything he took improperly" in return for indemnity. Specter said he, too, wanted to talk to Walsh and perhaps offer a different deal.
Goodell also said he reserves the right to reopen the investigation if more information is uncovered.

http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/20080213_ap_belichickwastapingsince2000.html

Something actually getting done in D.C. is probably the most surprising part of the article.

becuzimbrown

02-13-2008, 11:42 PM

fuck the eagles

and why isnt this in the NFL thread?

Ikohn4ever

02-13-2008, 11:45 PM

fuck the eagles

and why isnt this in the NFL thread?

cause it would get lost their

ohh and Giants blow

becuzimbrown

02-13-2008, 11:46 PM

cause it would get lost their

ohh and Giants blow

Well no one is even talking in the NFL thread because the only thing to talk about right now in the NFL is Belichick (and maybe the dolphins)

eagles suck.

VanillaGorilla

02-13-2008, 11:48 PM

This is the most overblown sports story of the last 10 years. Even if you know the EXACT play your opponent is running, assignment by assignment, if you don't execute, you'll get owned.

Ikohn4ever

02-13-2008, 11:50 PM

Well no one is even talking in the NFL thread because the only thing to talk about right now in the NFL is Belichick (and maybe the dolphins)

eagles suck.

yea perfect reason to have a new thread

ohh and maybe strahan will have enough money by selling his SB ring to fix that fooking tunnel between his front teeth

Ikohn4ever

02-13-2008, 11:51 PM

This is the most overblown sports story of the last 10 years. Even if you know the EXACT play your opponent is running, assignment by assignment, if you don't execute, you'll get owned.

I agree, but you have to agree that if both teams were equal, even the slightest advantage could be enough to beat the other team

hiccupleftovers

02-13-2008, 11:52 PM

Eagles suck. They had their chance(s).

captainfrizo

02-13-2008, 11:55 PM

As soon as I saw the article was from a Philly based website I had no reason to read it. It just sounds like Philly fans are looking for another reason to piss and moan. Your team lost, get over it.

becuzimbrown

02-13-2008, 11:55 PM

i still think the pats would have won. And the eagles shouldnt get a ring just because the pats cheated. Thats like saying the you should give the jets a win because the pats were cheating in the first game of the season. And look how good the pats did this season after NOT cheating for 18 games.

hiccupleftovers

02-14-2008, 12:00 AM

Ikohn4ever

02-14-2008, 12:02 AM

As soon as I saw the article was from a Philly based website I had no reason to read it. It just sounds like Philly fans are looking for another reason to piss and moan. Your team lost, get over it.

dude it was a joke about getting their rings, i'd just rather have no official winner of the super bowl. Its about the NFL lying and only saying it was for this season. Its about them destroying the evidence intentionally to quiet the story. Ohh and probably the reason its in a philly newspaper is its because its a PA Senator leading the investigation. But you are probably too smart to read that and I am sure whatever sports team you support are #1 winners.

becuzimbrown

02-14-2008, 12:02 AM

Come on, they're just jealous that the Giants dethroned them, while their team still stinks.:lol:;)

well the Giants ARE the BEST FOOTBALL TEAM in the NFL......right now.

JolietJake

02-14-2008, 12:05 AM

Steroids in baseball, illegal signal taping in football, whats next? NBA players get caught wearing platform sneakers?

Ikohn4ever

02-14-2008, 12:06 AM

Steroids in baseball, illegal signal taping in football, whats next? NBA players get caught wearing platform sneakers?

caught with Flubber

becuzimbrown

02-14-2008, 12:07 AM

dude it was a joke about getting their rings, i'd just rather have no official winner of the super bowl. Its about the NFL lying and only saying it was for this season. Its about them destroying the evidence intentionally to quiet the story. Ohh and probably the reason its in a philly newspaper is its because its a PA Senator leading the investigation. But you are probably too smart to read that and I am sure whatever sports team you support are #1 winners.

i didnt even vote for that asshole. But im sure this is just a ploy to get votes from eagles fans and get re-elected.
And aren't there more important things he should be doing than worrying about the tapes? Of course moronic Eagles fans are extremely happy about this though.

(not all of them are moronic, so dont take it that way)

captainfrizo

02-14-2008, 12:09 AM

Ikohn4ever

02-14-2008, 12:15 AM

Well, I am smart enough to use proper grammar, something that you clearly cannot claim.

OOOoooOOO grammar, thats all you got. Is this your first day on a forum? If all you have to say is grammar, I don't even know why you showed up to play with the big boyz*

*spelling mistake just for you to be able to make a comment on your next post.

hiccupleftovers

02-14-2008, 12:17 AM

Steroids in baseball, illegal signal taping in football, whats next? NBA players get caught wearing platform sneakers?

Too many tattoos......;)

/joke (so nobody thinks I'm being racist/prejudiced.)

captainfrizo

02-14-2008, 12:33 AM

OOOoooOOO grammar, thats all you got. Is this your first day on a forum? If all you have to say is grammar, I don't even know why you showed up to play with the big boyz*

*spelling mistake just for you to be able to make a comment on your next post.

Yep. That post surely established your superiority here in this forum.

Actually, I just re-read your totally bad-ass posts and should have left after reading this pants-wetting, testosterone filled, don't fuck with me response:

ohh and Giants blow

I mean, anyone who responds in such a ferocious and intelligent manner is clearly a forum veteran.

And then to further prove you're one of the "big boyz" you followed it up with yet another slam on Giants' fans to further prove how awesome and bad-ass you are:

ohh and maybe strahan will have enough money by selling his SB ring to fix that fooking tunnel between his front teeth

You sir, are clearly a step above us all in terms of running forums.* You are undoubtedly the alpha male where ever you post with your superior ability to speak "forum talk." All other posters should look up to you and want to be like you.

I bet you kick all the other sixth graders' asses on the playground at school too, no?

* in addition to being a dumb-ass

Ikohn4ever

02-14-2008, 12:49 AM

Yep. That post surely established your superiority here in this forum.

Actually, I just re-read your totally bad-ass posts and should have left after reading this pants-wetting, testosterone filled, don't fuck with me response:

I mean, anyone who responds in such a ferocious and intelligent manner is clearly a forum veteran.

And then to further prove you're one of the "big boyz" you followed it up with yet another slam on Giants' fans to further prove how awesome and bad-ass you are:

You sir, are clearly a step above us all in terms of running forums.* You are undoubtedly the alpha male where ever you post with your superior ability to speak "forum talk." All other posters should look up to you and want to be like you.

I bet you kick all the other sixth graders' asses on the playground at school too, no?

* in addition to being a dumb-ass

sigh, first off my giants blow comment was in response to becuz. Giants and Eagles do that its sort of a friendly banter. If you bothered to notice the other posts we went back and forth a lil.

Secondly you were the ignorant one who judged a book by its cover and refused to read an article because As soon as I saw the article was from a Philly based website I had no reason to read it. now if I used this article from the AP http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/football/nfl/02/13/specter.goodell.ap/index.html you might have read it, but apparently you have some problem with philly. Thats your problem.

Finally, don't take everything on the post so seriously, you need to relax more. I might be sarcastic, but its all a joke, its the Internet in a topic about football. Though if you would actually like to be the master debater <--joke, you can go after me in a vs thread that is actually an important topic.

becuzimbrown

02-14-2008, 12:58 AM

you guys can fight all you want, the Giants are still #1.

Xevious

02-14-2008, 01:00 AM

At least Goodell had the balls to admit it; As for destroying the tapes...I'm not sure if that was the right thing to do. I guess he was doing damage control for the NFL.

Still, this taints the Patriots Dynasty. The OP mentioned the Eagles Superbowl but the first game I thought of was the Raiders Snowbowl game. What about the Rams Superbowl? That was in 2002. There may have been other games that are questionable. All of us have our own favorite teams....how many of those games are tainted?

Xevious

02-14-2008, 01:01 AM

you guys can fight all you want, the Giants are still #1.

The Giants got a fair fight....

becuzimbrown

02-14-2008, 01:13 AM

The Giants got a fair fight....

what does that mean?

Blitz

02-14-2008, 01:13 AM

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/football/nfl/02/13/specter.goodell.ap/index.html you might have read it, but apparently you have some problem with philly. Thats your problem.

What do they know? They're just a bunch of Philly fans pissing and moaning. ;)

Blitz

02-14-2008, 01:17 AM

what does that mean?

The Giants didn't get videotaped.

becuzimbrown

02-14-2008, 01:19 AM

The Giants didn't get videotaped.

that doesn't mean philly would have won because they got videotape. It could have gone either way.

hiccupleftovers

02-14-2008, 01:24 AM

you guys can fight all you want, the Giants are still #1.

:lol::applause:

hiccupleftovers

02-14-2008, 01:27 AM

that doesn't mean philly would have won because they got videotape. It could have gone either way.

T.O. was injured that game. Wasn't it close? If I remember correctly, it was something like 24-21 Patriots winning with a field goal. So clearly it was a solid game, it's just that the Eagles blew it in the end.

Blitz

02-14-2008, 01:29 AM

that doesn't mean philly would have won because they got videotape. It could have gone either way.

I agree. But we will never know because of what the Pats did. I am an Eagle fan and I wouldn't want the Eagles to be awarded the SB win from 04. That would be way too cheap. But it does kind of make you wonder, they won 3 SB's and every one of them by 3 points. I bet the Rams and Panther fans are not very happy either.

But none of it matters because nothing can be changed except adding an asterisk next to the NE SB wins. But the league would never do that so....

BTW this takes NOTHING away from what the Giants accomplished. So please don't take it that way. I have to respect a team that goes out and earns a SB the right way.

becuzimbrown

02-14-2008, 01:30 AM

becuzimbrown

02-14-2008, 01:32 AM

I agree. But we will never know because of what the Pats did. I am an Eagle fan and I wouldn't want the Eagles to be awarded the SB win from 04. That would be way too cheap. But it does kind of make you wonder, they won 3 SB's and every one of them by 3 points. I bet the Rams and Panther fans are not very happy either.

But none of it matters because nothing can be changed except adding an asterisk next to the NE SB wins. But the league would never do that so....

BTW this takes NOTHING away from what the Giants accomplished. So please don't take it that way. I have to respect a team that goes out and earns a SB the right way.

unlike those cavemen at the philadelphiaeagles.com forums, you sir show a lot of class

thanks

Blitz

02-14-2008, 01:41 AM

unlike those cavemen at the philadelphiaeagles.com forums, you sir show a lot of class

thanks

I think calling them cavemen would be an insult to cavemen. HORRIBLE MB for some of Philly's worst fans. There are good and bads fans that follow every team but the ones on that board are the bottom feeders.

Hell I was pulling for the Giants to win the SB. You made TO cry which in my book was cool as hell. :rofl:

becuzimbrown

02-14-2008, 01:46 AM

I think calling them cavemen would be an insult to cavemen. HORRIBLE MB for some of Philly's worst fans. There are good and bads fans that follow every team but the ones on that board are the bottom feeders.

Hell I was pulling for the Giants to win the SB. You made TO cry which in my book was cool as hell. :rofl:

look through all of the pages and enjoy:
http://boards.giants.com/forums/thread/624756.aspx

Blitz

02-14-2008, 02:00 AM

look through all of the pages and enjoy:
http://boards.giants.com/forums/thread/624756.aspx

BEAUTIFUL...:applause:

MSUHitman

02-14-2008, 03:53 AM

I'm glad I can't get the sports radio stations here in St. Louis at work. After they get done talking about Clemens, all they'll do is cry about getting their Super Bowl trophy/rings as well (Cardinals and Blues fan, but Bears in football.)

lordwow

02-14-2008, 06:08 AM

The NFL Commissioner has final say in all the decisions regarding discipline, stripping of awards, and other forms of punishment. If he doesn't feel the need to punish them, why do you?

help1

02-14-2008, 06:24 AM

Tag

pittpizza

02-14-2008, 09:50 AM

I personally am really happy to see this come out. Specter is actually doing some good here. Even if this does nothing else besides expose the Pats for the cheaters they are, and the cheaters they have been, at least nobody will be talking about a Pats "dynasty" anymore. Maybe now its a "cheatnasty."

The Steelers dynasty, OTOH, remains unblemished! Hooray.

Oh and Captainfrizo, you got your ass handed to you in that little flamewar there. As a neutral third party I can pretty much tell you that you lost whatever you and Ikohn had going on there...handily. That'll teach you to bout with a seasoned vs. board vet. For the future, know that grammarnitpicking=admission of defeat.

It is telling that the FIRST superbowl the Pats were unable to cheat, they lost. What does that say about the previous superbowls? IMO, it says they would have lost if they didn't know what the other team was going to do before they did it.

Somebody pointed out that it is not a huge advantage to know the play calls. I find this to be BS. Are you serious? If you know it's a run to the left, even if you don't physically move your players to the left side pre-snap, if they know it's going to the left, the play will be busted up in the backfield. No advantage!? Seriously wtf?

lordwow

02-14-2008, 12:02 PM

It is telling that the FIRST superbowl the Pats were unable to cheat, they lost. What does that say about the previous superbowls? IMO, it says they would have lost if they didn't know what the other team was going to do before they did it.

How do you account for the other 17 games this season they won that they weren't recording plays?

pittpizza

02-14-2008, 12:47 PM

How do you account for the other 17 games this season they won that they weren't recording plays?

That they choke under pressure unless they cheat.

And I was talking about superbowls, re-read my post and you'll see I only mentioned SUPERBOWLS, regular season games don't mean squat compared to the superbowl.

rajchakrabarti

02-14-2008, 12:58 PM

well if they win with out taping... why did they bother to do it in the first place ? lack of faith ?

Snoozer

02-14-2008, 01:11 PM

Mr. Bill was Coach of the year for a reason.

souljah420

02-14-2008, 01:14 PM

thank goodness we have politicians in washington that care about the common man...

pittpizza

02-14-2008, 01:28 PM

well if they win with out taping... why did they bother to do it in the first place ? lack of faith ?

They never did win a superbowl w/out taping.

I'm just so happy that this asshat of a man brought so much shame onto the Pats and thier prior superbowl victories. Now nobody will view them as legitimate. It's all teinted.

Seeing the bright light of justice shine on corruption and cheating really is gratifying.

It's been a rough couple of months for the pats hasn't it?

They're just completely failing all over the place, on the field and off.

ryanbph

02-14-2008, 02:32 PM

first off, the congress should have some thing better to do then get involved in this. There is no need for it. 2nd of all, numerous players and coaches have claimed this shit has always gone down. The only rule the pats broke was filming from the sidelines. You are allowed to film from the coaches box, from seats inside the stadium, from a blimp. The only place you are not allowed to film from, is the sidelines. The NFL network has been going on all week talking about stories of games they were involved in where the other team was trying to get info on them. They have talked a lot about alleged irregularities between the cowboys in 49ers back in the 90's. They have talked about al davis removing a member from another team off his bus to and from practice. The jets signed 2 or 3 of the pats last players cut before the first game in order to get as much info from them as possible. Rasheed Cauldwell, the last receiver cut by the pats was signed by the jets b4 that first game and I don't believe he ever played a snap for them. It was done to get as much info about the pats as possible.

This story is highly over blown and needs to die. We are talking about 10 feet between where the camera man could have been located from what is and what is not legal. It is a fact that most NFL coaches do not know the entire, complex NFL rule system. During the superbowl bellicheck asked the ref about would a player be considered in play if he is jumping off the field.

lordwow

02-14-2008, 03:21 PM

That they choke under pressure unless they cheat.

And I was talking about superbowls, re-read my post and you'll see I only mentioned SUPERBOWLS, regular season games don't mean squat compared to the superbowl.

And yet there is only an allegation that he taped a walkthrough practice of the 2002 Superbowl, none of the others.

Javery

02-14-2008, 03:36 PM

T.O. was injured that game. Wasn't it close? If I remember correctly, it was something like 24-21 Patriots winning with a field goal. So clearly it was a solid game, it's just that the Eagles blew it in the end.

The final score indicates it was a close game but it really wasn't. If I remember correctly, the Pats had a 24-14 lead late in the game - I think there were actually less than 2 minutes left when they scored to make it 24-21. Granted, 3 points is still close but it wasn't like the other 2 Super Bowls where Vinatieri kicked the game winner...

Steroids in baseball, illegal signal taping in football, whats next? NBA players get caught wearing platform sneakers?

I'm guessing it will be something like refs fixing games and point shaving or something like that... oh, wait...

Blitz

02-14-2008, 03:44 PM

The final score indicates it was a close game but it really wasn't. If I remember correctly, the Pats had a 24-14 lead late in the game - I think there were actually less than 2 minutes left when they scored to make it 24-21. Granted, 3 points is still close but it wasn't like the other 2 Super Bowls where Vinatieri kicked the game winner...

Actually it was a close game. It was 24-14 when the Eagles scored and made it 24-21. The Pats got the ball back and couldn't do anything so they punted back to the Eagles. There was around 1:15 left when the Eagles got the ball back. So the they had a chance to win or tie in the end. That, at least IMO is a close game.

For some reason that day the Patriots knew every damn screen that was coming and the Eagles are one of the best screen teams in the NFL.

Javery

02-14-2008, 03:50 PM

Actually it was a close game. It was 24-14 when the Eagles scored and made it 24-21. The Pats got the ball back and couldn't do anything so they punted back to the Eagles. There was around 1:15 left when the Eagles got the ball back. So the they had a chance to win or tie in the end. That, at least IMO is a close game.

For some reason that day the Patriots knew every damn screen that was coming and the Eagles are one of the best screen teams in the NFL.

Hmmm... maybe I blocked out the last 1:15 from my head because the thought of the Eagles winning it all makes me sick. ;) I completely forgot that the Eagles D held the Pats to a 3 and out while only running :30 off the clock (if that's what happened). That is a close game.

Rocko

02-14-2008, 03:53 PM

Eagles for the win. Belichick is a terrible loser and a cheater.

ryanbph

02-14-2008, 03:54 PM

Actually it was a close game. It was 24-14 when the Eagles scored and made it 24-21. The Pats got the ball back and couldn't do anything so they punted back to the Eagles. There was around 1:15 left when the Eagles got the ball back. So the they had a chance to win or tie in the end. That, at least IMO is a close game.

For some reason that day the Patriots knew every damn screen that was coming and the Eagles are one of the best screen teams in the NFL.

lets not forgot the horrible game management that also led to the eagles downfall....between donovan looking like he was going to puke on the field and being very very lathargic to the line, to andy reid not knowing how to call a timeout...

Javery

02-14-2008, 04:02 PM

lets not forgot the horrible game management that also led to the eagles downfall....between donovan looking like he was going to puke on the field and being very very lathargic to the line, to andy reid not knowing how to call a timeout...

oh yeah - I totally remember thinking Andy Reid was having a stroke on the sidelines or something - piss poor clock management. One of the worst I've seen. I definitely remember that.

lordwow

02-14-2008, 04:08 PM

oh yeah - I totally remember thinking Andy Reid was having a stroke on the sidelines or something - piss poor clock management. One of the worst I've seen. I definitely remember that.

I think the worst clock management was the final game of this season with the Giants. They nearly ran the clock out on themselves when they needed to score 2 times at the end of the game.

ryanbph

02-14-2008, 04:21 PM

the giants were bad, but nothing compared to the eagles that superbowl.

Javery

02-14-2008, 04:25 PM

the giants were bad, but nothing compared to the eagles that superbowl.

I agree. I remember thinking to myself, why the hell aren't they (i) hurrying, (ii) trying to get out of bounds or (iii) CALLING A FREAKING TIMEOUT INSTEAD OF LETTING THE CLOCK TICK AWAY?!?!?!?!?

and I HATE the Eagles - I never rooted harder for a team to lose than I did that day.

dafoomie

02-14-2008, 06:43 PM

Here's the footage we captured of the Eagles before SB XXXIX:

http://willdo.philadelphiaweekly.com/archives/102306mcnabbpuking-01.gif

Dkellar

02-14-2008, 07:12 PM

Wow, there is a war going on, the economy is about to collapse, a million other problems are going on, and the only things that concern congress are steroids in baseball and some nfl coach spying on other teams? No wonder this country sucks.

SNKMat

02-14-2008, 07:22 PM

fuck the eagles. Go Packers. Eagles= Gays who haven't won a SB

omgu8myrice

02-14-2008, 07:55 PM

Blitz

02-14-2008, 08:12 PM

Here's the footage we captured of the Eagles before SB XXXIX:

http://willdo.philadelphiaweekly.com/archives/102306mcnabbpuking-01.gif

Here's a nice little song dedicated to the Pats...

http://www.break.com/index/patriots-parody-you-cheated.html

bigdaddy

02-14-2008, 09:21 PM

the fucking asshole senator is like "we must get to the bottom of this! they are destroying my favorite sport!"

Yet no one gives a fuck that Bush would have been hung for waterboarding if this was world war too.

Fucking idiots.

It's football, worry about the important things in life.

DJSteel

02-14-2008, 09:34 PM

um.. right.. I'm sorry, if the Pats have been taping since Belichick has been head coach.. he needs to be banned from football and the Pats should lose all their picks.. make the penalty for this type of stuff large enough so people stop doing it...

becuzimbrown

02-14-2008, 09:53 PM

Giants are still #1.

this thread has not changed that yet.

lordwow

02-14-2008, 09:57 PM

Giants are still #1.

this thread has not changed that yet.

Thanks, we forget every 10 posts, so feel free to remind us.

Rocko

02-14-2008, 10:00 PM

Giants are still #1.

this thread has not changed that yet.

YOU DID IT MAN! YOU AND THE GUYS WERE GREAT OUT THERE!

:roll:

mykevermin

02-14-2008, 10:04 PM

Fucking idiots.

world war too

...yep.

EDIT: I'm with DJ Steel. If Belichick's been doing it for 7-8 seasons, he needs to be outta the NFL with a quickness.

becuzimbrown

02-14-2008, 10:17 PM

Thanks, we forget every 10 posts, so feel free to remind us.

i thought i made this clear. Im shoving it in everyones face until the first preseason game of 2008 (maybe the draft if you're lucky).

YOU DID IT MAN! YOU AND THE GUYS WERE GREAT OUT THERE!

:roll:

Thanks, it wasn't all me though. Some guys just went out there and made some great plays when we really needed them. I was at a party with beer and chips supporting them but when we ran out of chips, I was the one making the the run to Wawa.

pittpizza

02-15-2008, 02:09 PM

I'm with you becuz, not becaue I like the Giants but becasue I hate cheaters. Hate me some cheaters!

ALso DJSteel is right, get this fuckin unappreciative, self-centered, conceited, unapologetic-after-I-got-caught-cheating-red-handed, ugly, slovenly, and worst dressed professional in the history of the game out of here. What a horrible role-model (even ignoring ethics, sportsmanship and integrity).

What I like best is everybody thought he was such a genius. "Oh he is a mastermind, He is such a great coach, He's such a student of the game it's like he knows what the other team is going to call before they call it!"

Guess what!? He does knows what the other team is going to call before they call it becasue he taped their fucking signals!

All of it, everything, all the superbowls and accolades and MVP bullshit is down the drain now.

Cheaters.

Eagles for the win. Belichick is a terrible loser and a cheater.

Rocko, I applaud your brevity and couldn't have said it better myself.

ryanbph

02-16-2008, 08:55 AM

really...100's of millions..really

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-patrioitssued&prov=ap&type=lgns

Will

02-16-2008, 07:13 PM

1. Fuck the Eagles. They wouldnt have won it anyways.

2. Does our govt not have anything better to do than who's cheating in fb taping scandals and who may or may not be taking steroids? We gave issues that are more deserving of govt attn than this bullshit.

3. Fuck the Eagles. They wouldnt have wont it anyways.

Will

02-16-2008, 07:16 PM

4. No, Im not a Pats fan.

evanft

02-16-2008, 08:07 PM

Meh. Honestly, I only consider this cheating in the sense that its against the rules. If it wasn't, then I wouldn't care at all. I mean, if steroids were a-ok by the rulebook, I would still consider their use cheating, but not taping defensive signals. Shit, guys on the sideline or in the stands could steal the signals w/o the use of camera and get a good idea of what means what.

It's actually kinda like how the guy on second isn't supposed to steal signs from the catcher to the pitcher, but they do anyways, and catchers often either switch the signs with a guy on second or make frequent mound visits to throw them off.

lordwow

02-18-2008, 06:06 AM

From The NYTimes:

Belichick Breaks Silence on Taping (http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/sports/AP-FBN-Patriots-Belichick-Spygate.html?_r=1&ref=sports&oref=slogin)

Belichick Breaks Silence on Taping
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: February 18, 2008

Filed at 12:49 a.m. ET

BOSTON (AP) -- Patriots coach Bill Belichick broke his silence on New England's twin taping controversies, denying he told anyone to tape the St. Louis Rams' walkthrough before the 2002 Super Bowl and apologizing for all the attention generated by Spygate.

Belichick also told the Boston Globe he ''couldn't pick Matt Walsh out of a lineup.'' Walsh, a former Patriots employee, reportedly taped St. Louis' walkthrough practice the day before the Patriots beat the Rams 20-17 in the championship.

''In my entire coaching career, I've never seen another team's practice film prior to playing that team,'' Belichick said in a story posted on the Globe's Web site Sunday night. ''I have never authorized, or heard of, or even seen in any way, shape, or form any other team's walkthrough. We don't even film our own.''

Patriots vice president of player personnel Scott Pioli also told the newspaper that part of the reason Walsh was fired in January 2003 was because he secretly recorded conversations between himself and Pioli.

Michael Levy, Walsh's attorney, said Pioli's account was a ''complete fabrication.''

''This is a predictable and pathetic effort to smear Mr. Walsh's character rather than confront the truth about the Patriots' conduct,'' Levy said in the Globe story.

Levy has said his client is willing to turn over videotapes he made for the team if the NFL guarantees Walsh protection from lawsuits or other legal action.

Commissioner Roger Goodell has said he offered Walsh a deal requiring him ''to tell the truth and he has to return anything he took improperly'' in return for indemnity, but Levy has said the deal doesn't go far enough.

Goodell fined Belichick $500,000, the Patriots $250,000 and took away a first-round draft choice after the Patriots were caught taping New York Jets' coaches in last year's season opener, a 38-14 New England victory.

Belichick said he misinterpreted the rule, which he felt only prohibited taping that could be used during the same game.

He also apologized for the controversy the taping caused.

''I respect the integrity of the game and always have and always will,'' he said in the Globe story. ''I regret that any of this, or to whatever extent, it has in any way brought that into question or discussion or debate. The decision was made by the commissioner, the practice was immediately stopped, and we're not doing it.

''Just going back over the whole taping incident, if I contacted the league and asked them about the practice, I'm sure they would have told me -- as they have done -- that it is not permissible. Then I could have avoided all of this.

''I take responsibility for it,'' he said. ''Even though I felt there was a gray area in the rule and I misinterpreted the rule, that was my mistake and we've been penalized for it. I apologize to everybody that is involved -- the league, the other teams, the fans, our team, for the amount of conversation and dialogue that it's caused.''

The day before the Patriots' 17-14 loss to the New York Giants in this year's Super Bowl, the Boston Herald reported New England taped St. Louis' walkthrough before the first of the Patriots' three Super Bowl victories. In a walkthrough, teams practice plays at a slower pace than normal without pads or helmets.

Patriots spokesman Stacey James did not return phone calls or an e-mail seeking comment Sunday night.

It never made sense to me why he'd want to tape a walkthrough, especially when they've got 18 other games of tape to watch. Bellicheck, I think has a pretty solid legal defense here since they fired the guy for taping other conversations.

opportunity777

02-18-2008, 06:56 AM

I blame the Eagles' loss on that shitty two minute drill where everyone on the Eagles team was walking up to the line like it was the 1st Quarter of the first game of preseason.

If the NFL gets physical evidence of Walsh (or anyone else) illegally taping other teams AND The Patriots knew and used this material (if Walsh taped on his own to blackmail the Pats later, then it doesn't count, sorry), then I totally agree with any punishment thrown towards the team, the head coach and anyone else involved in the situation.

I also believe Specter needs to stop talking shit and start doing something like acquiring evidence.

Too many politicians are all talk. When the time to make a decision and take action comes along, they almost always screw up. He needs to show us the evidence or shut the fuck up.

dafoomie

02-18-2008, 02:46 PM

From The NYTimes:

Belichick Breaks Silence on Taping (http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/sports/AP-FBN-Patriots-Belichick-Spygate.html?_r=1&ref=sports&oref=slogin)
Here's the original article that the Times is summarizing:
http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2008/02/18/belichick_and_pioli_speak_out

rscaramelo

03-03-2008, 11:08 PM

Sorry to restart an old thread but this shit pisses me off.

1. The Patriots did not "cheat", they broke a rule.
2. If the Patriots' camera guy was seated in the front row or last row, they wouldn't have broken a rule. They had the camera guy in the wrong place. It's not illegal to tape. They didn't get any better info from being where they were.
3. Everyone tapes. This has been happening since before many of you were born.
4. The media completely blew this way out of proportion thus fanning the flames. Nobody likes the dominant team. They seized on this. The pantloads at ESPN went apeship over nothing and turned this into a story thanks to the Commish....
5. The Commish in his never-ending quest to be the toughest Commish ever came down with the most ridiculous penalty ever. I suspect this was to quell the idiotic cries from people saying the Pats were going to get off easy because of Kraft's relationship with him. He turned this into the second biggest sports issue next to the steroid issue. It should have been buried because it's not a big deal. Now the hysteria over this has made people question the credibility of one of the league's top teams and of the league itself. This is something that oldtimers without an ax to grind are shaking there heads at because you don't talk about in house stuff.
6. Screw the Eagles. They lost. McNabb choked on his own puke and had a pannick attack in the huddle. The Patriots won period.
7. The Pats should have beat the Giants but didn't. The Giants won fair and square. The Giants' defense was terrific. Their coaching was spot-on. They had loads of luck on the drive with Eli escaping and making that pass but that's what champs do. The Patriots have had their share of this sort of thing too.
8. Yes I'm a Patriots fan. I was a Patriots fan during the shit 1-15 years too. I hated the Steelers in the 70's and the Cowboys (always) in the 90's because they won too much so I understand the hate. This "spygate" hate is irrational and just plain stupid.

RC

omgu8myrice

03-03-2008, 11:12 PM

^ go back to boston, and stay there

rscaramelo

03-03-2008, 11:19 PM

You like the Knicks and the Islanders....no wonder you're bitter.

RC

mykevermin

03-03-2008, 11:34 PM

1. The Patriots did not "cheat", they broke a rule.

This is where I stopped reading, because you're trying to create a dividing line between the two concepts as if they're wholly separable. Breaking rules happen all the time. That's where penalties are levied in game. Pass interference, false start, too many men on the field, and so on.

When a rule is knowingly broken that provides such dividends to the team that are visible, such as the Rams' new plays that were thoroughly broken down by the Pats (sure, the Pats are good, but they were strategically all over the Rams in that SB game), some severe repurcussions need to be levied.

Any NFL coach/staff knows these rules that were violated. If they didn't, they wouldn't/shouldn't be NFL coaches.

Of course, you have a vested interest in your version of the story as a Pats fan, while others have vested interests in discrediting the Pats' legacy this decade.

But to treat this as a "broken rule" when you have years and years of illegal videos being captured is to gloss over a significant violation of the rules.

rscaramelo

03-03-2008, 11:46 PM

Having tapes of other teams isn't illegal. They taped them from the wrong place. This is why it's not cheating.

Here is a link (http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/2007/12/videotaping_rul.html) to the rule.

Again, the problem was that the staffer was on the sidelines taping the Jets . It was ok to tape the Jets.

Not cheating.

RC

This is where I stopped reading, because you're trying to create a dividing line between the two concepts as if they're wholly separable. Breaking rules happen all the time. That's where penalties are levied in game. Pass interference, false start, too many men on the field, and so on.

When a rule is knowingly broken that provides such dividends to the team that are visible, such as the Rams' new plays that were thoroughly broken down by the Pats (sure, the Pats are good, but they were strategically all over the Rams in that SB game), some severe repurcussions need to be levied.

Any NFL coach/staff knows these rules that were violated. If they didn't, they wouldn't/shouldn't be NFL coaches.

Of course, you have a vested interest in your version of the story as a Pats fan, while others have vested interests in discrediting the Pats' legacy this decade.

But to treat this as a "broken rule" when you have years and years of illegal videos being captured is to gloss over a significant violation of the rules.

dafoomie

03-03-2008, 11:48 PM

When a rule is knowingly broken that provides such dividends to the team that are visible, such as the Rams' new plays that were thoroughly broken down by the Pats (sure, the Pats are good, but they were strategically all over the Rams in that SB game), some severe repurcussions need to be levied.
What exactly are the "visible dividends" that were gained by the Pats from breaking this rule?

There is a fundamental misunderstanding over what this rule is. You are allowed to tape signals. But you are not allowed to have that camera on the sideline. Its not what they taped that was illegal, its where they taped it from.

The camera position did not comply with NFL rules, thats it. I don't think you gain much from that.

becuzimbrown

03-03-2008, 11:53 PM

too bad the giants still won.

(again im sorry, but the giants are still champions :) )

rscaramelo

03-03-2008, 11:55 PM

rscaramelo

03-03-2008, 11:56 PM

too bad the giants still won.

(again im sorry, but the giants are still champions :) )

Like I said in my post, the Giants won fair and square. No beef with the Giants. Congrats.

RC

ejgarc

03-04-2008, 12:02 AM

You could fix a satellite on the opposing team's coach and legally tape. TAPING wasn't the problem, where the taping was done from was the problem. Everyone has this cheating this stuck in their heads. BFD!

RC
I thought the reason that the location of the taping was important is that from where the Patriots were taping they were able to actually see the defensive signals which they would not have been able to do if they had complied with the rule. Therefore, during halftime the Patriots would have an advantage because by halftime they would know the defensive signals for the opposing team. Also, if it did not give the Patriots an advantage why did they continue to do it when they were told not to by the league?

rscaramelo

03-04-2008, 12:18 AM

I thought the reason that the location of the taping was important is that from where the Patriots were taping they were able to actually see the defensive signals which they would not have been able to do if they had complied with the rule. Therefore, during halftime the Patriots would have an advantage because by halftime they would know the defensive signals for the opposing team. Also, if it did not give the Patriots an advantage why did they continue to do it when they were told not to by the league?

With technology today, the location of the camera is irrelevant towards the quality of the recordings.

Why still tape from the sidelines? Even the most diehard Pats fan would have to admit Coach Bill can be stubborn and arrogant.

As far a halftme advantages goes, all coaches change things up at halftime including their own signals. Plenty of former pros have gone on the record saying that half the signals sent are dummy signals. If a coach is so naive as not to mix their own signals during halftime then they deserve to have them intercepted. My understanding is that these tapes are used to study another coach's substitution patterns and the timing of them. It wouldn't be possible to translate everything to be used same day unless the opposing coach was just an idiot.

RC

crushtopher

03-04-2008, 12:25 AM

ejgarc

03-04-2008, 12:31 AM

With technology today, the location of the camera is irrelevant towards the quality of the recordings.

Why still tape from the sidelines? Even the most diehard Pats fan would have to admit Coach Bill can be stubborn and arrogant.

As far a halftme advantages goes, all coaches change things up at halftime including their own signals. Plenty of former pros have gone on the record saying that half the signals sent are dummy signals. If a coach is so naive as not to mix their own signals during halftime then they deserve to have them intercepted. My understanding is that these tapes are used to study another coach's substitution patterns and the timing of them. It wouldn't be possible to translate everything to be used same day unless the opposing coach was just an idiot.

RC
I believe the rumor is that the Patriots have a guy that can decipher the other team's signals very quickly. His name is Ernie Adams. http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/feb/04/belichicks-buddy-behind-the-genius/

Also, if there was no advantage gained why did he do it? Simply saying he is stubborn and arrogant does not really seem like a reason to tape another team's signals. Obviously he thought there was an advantage to be gained.

Gothic Walrus

03-04-2008, 12:37 AM

What is the point of all of this? It's done/over/finished. You can make the claim that the Pats never should have made it to the SB against the Rams if it wasn't for that bulls--- "tuck" rule against the Raiders. You can't take back a SB game or the results and I doubt any real kind of punishment will come as a result of any of this. Pats suck, everyone knows it, 16-0 down the drain cuz they CHOKED

I don't think that you can say a team "sucked" and that "everyone knows it" when they go undefeated for an entire regular season. Allegations of cheating aside, there's definitely something there if they can manage that.

rscaramelo

03-04-2008, 08:44 AM

I believe the rumor is that the Patriots have a guy that can decipher the other team's signals very quickly. His name is Ernie Adams. http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/feb/04/belichicks-buddy-behind-the-genius/

Also, if there was no advantage gained why did he do it? Simply saying he is stubborn and arrogant does not really seem like a reason to tape another team's signals. Obviously he thought there was an advantage to be gained.

There is an advantage in the future, not that same day. He was stubborn and arrogant for not having his guy do the taping from a legal spot. He was giving everyone the middle finger. He always tries to be 2 steps ahead. He'll study what, for example, Norv Turner did when he had a 3rd and 8 from around the 45 yard line - what formation, what sort of personnel, etc. If Turner uses and reuses the same signals then fire Turner for being lazy. On the tapes that were sent in to the NFL, there's a funny scene where Herb Edwards (Chiefs) actually smiles and waves at the camera. Everyone does it.

BTW, everyone around here knows about Ernie Adams. If anyone could do that sort of on the fly translation he could. Why he's not applying that brain to something else more important is beyond me. That said, no way they're doing that without leading the league in false start penalties.

RC

DJSteel

03-04-2008, 08:47 AM

What exactly are the "visible dividends" that were gained by the Pats from breaking this rule?

There is a fundamental misunderstanding over what this rule is. You are allowed to tape signals. But you are not allowed to have that camera on the sideline. Its not what they taped that was illegal, its where they taped it from.

The camera position did not comply with NFL rules, thats it. I don't think you gain much from that.

You cannot tape signals during the game on the sideline and use them to make adjustments during the same game.. that is what they did.. that makea huge difference.. If I'm Tom Brady and the OC tells me the LOLB is blitzing and the FS was blitzing I know exactly what to do.. IF they did this since 01 then they should be punished..

Javery

03-04-2008, 09:19 AM

I'm pretty sure taping a closed walkthrough of your opponent the day before the Super Bowl is cheating. I know it hasn't been proven yet but that Walsh guy knows something and it's going to come out eventually.

Also, Pats fans sound completely insane trying to argue that violating this rule isn't a big deal:

"Any use by any club at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which such club is a participant, of any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping, or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game."

rscaramelo

03-04-2008, 12:22 PM

Ok here's where you're all wrong.

1. You already made Walsh's accusations facts. The Patriots denied taping the walkthrough. Bill and Pioli were both quoted in the NY Times denying this. It's on the record. Walsh is a guy who was fired for TAPING INTERNAL CONVERSATIONS WITH PIOLI. Why would you tape conversations with your boss when you were an employee in good standing? He was also caught falsifying items on his resume. He claims he assisted in gameplaning and that he was an area scout - fail. He's a real winner. He was shopping around his information initially. Now maybe he has something....maybe. His track-record says he's full of crap. Where's the beef?

2. Do you really think taping from the sideline is much better than taping the same exact thing from the front row in the stands? Yes they violated the rule because they were on the sideline and were punished. Do you think that they're using Disc Cameras? They were punished because they thumbed their nose at the NFL, not because they got some great advantage on GAMEDAY. Nobody has proof they used information in real time on gameday.

RC

I'm pretty sure taping a closed walkthrough of your opponent the day before the Super Bowl is cheating. I know it hasn't been proven yet but that Walsh guy knows something and it's going to come out eventually.

Also, Pats fans sound completely insane trying to argue that violating this rule isn't a big deal:

"Any use by any club at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which such club is a participant, of any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping, or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game."

Javery

03-04-2008, 12:31 PM

1. You already made Walsh's accusations facts. The Patriots denied taping the walkthrough. Bill and Pioli were both quoted in the NY Times denying this.

Roger Clemens told Congress under oath that he never used PEDs so just because Belichick and Pioli gave interviews to the Times doesn't mean squat. All I'm saying is that where's there's smoke there's usually fire.

2. Do you really think taping from the sideline is much better than taping the same exact thing from the front row in the stands?

Of course it is! If everyone is taping their opponents legally from wherever it's allowed then why else would the Patriots do this other than to gain an advantage DURING THE GAME? There is no other explanation. Also, breaking the rules outside of the game is still cheating whether it gives you an advantage or not - there's really no arguing that point.

DJSteel

03-04-2008, 12:45 PM

Ok here's where you're all wrong.

1. You already made Walsh's accusations facts. The Patriots denied taping the walkthrough. Bill and Pioli were both quoted in the NY Times denying this. It's on the record. Walsh is a guy who was fired for TAPING INTERNAL CONVERSATIONS WITH PIOLI. Why would you tape conversations with your boss when you were an employee in good standing? He was also caught falsifying items on his resume. He claims he assisted in gameplaning and that he was an area scout - fail. He's a real winner. He was shopping around his information initially. Now maybe he has something....maybe. His track-record says he's full of crap. Where's the beef?

Maybe he taped their convo's because he knew it was against the rules and if they tried to pin all of this on him. I won't believe the Pats or Walsh until everything comes out..

2. Do you really think taping from the sideline is much better than taping the same exact thing from the front row in the stands? Yes they violated the rule because they were on the sideline and were punished. Do you think that they're using Disc Cameras? They were punished because they thumbed their nose at the NFL, not because they got some great advantage on GAMEDAY. Nobody has proof they used information in real time on gameday.

RC

The problem is they take the first half content that they've filmed and have the coaches go through it at half time. Then they monitor the coaches in the second half and know exactly what plays they are running in the second half..

rscaramelo

03-04-2008, 03:26 PM

Maybe he taped their convo's because he knew it was against the rules and if they tried to pin all of this on him. I won't believe the Pats or Walsh until everything comes out..

The problem is they take the first half content that they've filmed and have the coaches go through it at half time. Then they monitor the coaches in the second half and know exactly what plays they are running in the second half..

1. No idea about why he taped the discussions. All I know is he's been caught lying in his professional life before. He's got the burden of proving these accusations.

2. Local sports radio (obviously slanted towards the Pats) has had many former pros on to talk about this. Steve DeOssie is a regular on the station. He's a former linebacker/long-snapper who played for the Pats, Cowboys and Giants. He says that any information gathered in the first half would be useless since BOTH teams make second half adjustments. He said that for years teams have sent dummy signals because everyone tries to pick off each other's signals. His son just won a ring playing for the Giants and he openly rooted for them because of this and because that's where he won his ring. He's not a Pats' buttboy.

RC

dafoomie

03-04-2008, 03:39 PM

You cannot tape signals during the game on the sideline and use them to make adjustments during the same game.. that is what they did.. that makea huge difference.. If I'm Tom Brady and the OC tells me the LOLB is blitzing and the FS was blitzing I know exactly what to do.. IF they did this since 01 then they should be punished..
There is no evidence to suggest that these tapes were used during the game. The league stated that they had no reason to believe they were. Anything else is pure speculation.
All I'm saying is that where's there's smoke there's usually fire.
Walsh is a disgruntled former employee of the Patriots who has exaggerated and outright lied about his role with the team. His resume claims he was an area scout (he was not) and that he played on a college golf team (he did not). Now, I don't want to suggest that he could be continuing his pattern of lies to take revenge on a former employer, but where's there's smoke there's usually fire.

DJSteel

03-04-2008, 03:41 PM

1. No idea about why he taped the discussions. All I know is he's been caught lying in his professional life before. He's got the burden of proving these accusations.

2. Local sports radio (obviously slanted towards the Pats) has had many former pros on to talk about this. Steve DeOssie is a regular on the station. He's a former linebacker/long-snapper who played for the Pats, Cowboys and Giants. He says that any information gathered in the first half would be useless since BOTH teams make second half adjustments. He said that for years teams have sent dummy signals because everyone tries to pick off each other's signals. His son just won a ring playing for the Giants and he openly rooted for them because of this and because that's where he won his ring. He's not a Pats' buttboy.

RC

1. Belicheck and the NFL lied about taping signals or anything else before this past season. No one looks good in this situation.

2. adjustments might be different the signals are the same..so it's not useless.. now determining the hot read.. that is something that 8 years of taping signals would provide.. they would get better at spotting the signal callers..