Reports of FALCON RROD trickling in - ugh...

[xx2541]

I just picked up an Elite and was searching the XBOX forums for some info. I came across this post of a few Elite owners who have new FALCON 65nm systems and have gotten the Red Ring of Death. Everyone seems excited about the 65nm chips but no one can seem to answer if it truly fixed the RROD problem. Hopefully this isn't as widespread as the older models. Maybe these are isolated incidents- but beware.

Dammit Micro$oft- FIX THIS PROBLEM ALREADY!! :bomb:

Thread Link below:

http://forums.xbox.com/17894151/ShowPost.aspx

EDIT: Here are some more links with FALCON owners getting RROD. Some of these posts need to be scrolled down to see the owners RROD comments:

http://forums.xbox.com/17947417/ShowPost.aspx

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZx3JdSXux8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stmZp4X7iOo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nFZntMUuz4

http://forums.xbox.com/18291883/ShowPost.aspx

Also, here is a weird harmless RROD error on the Falcons post(probably will turn to a fatal RROD in time) There seems to be a youtube video of this as well:

http://forums.xbox.com/17078389/ShowPost.aspx

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nFZntMUuz4

[Chase]

This probability makes me want to go Russell Crowe and toss a power brick at Home Alone 2 concierge Tim Curry.

[jp0213]

I have a launch premium, a new falcon premium, and my little brother has a Falcon elite. None of those 3 consoles have ever had RROD. I really think people just don't take care of their stuff. My launch premium is still sitting pretty and running great. I don't play that one as much anymore, but I played that thing about 20 hours a week up until I bought one of the new premiums with HDMI about a month ago.

[rodeojones903]

I really think people just don't take care of their stuff.

Completely untrue. You will be hard pressed to find someone more anal about dust/ventilation/cleaning that me and I had the RROD. It really is faulty hardware and not the fault of the user.

[BackInBlack]

lol! Yes! Microsoft put a billion dollars into the Red Ringing 360's because it was "our" fault. They are so generous.

[jp0213]

On the original models I will believe that, but the new Falcon's? Until I see the setup of someone with a Falcon that got the RROD, I wont give their reports much credence. I'm not saying Falcon is the godsend either, but really, it is kinda hard to believe.

[Malik112099]

None of those 3 consoles have ever had RROD. I really think people just don't take care of their stuff.


Take a long hard look in the mirror and slap yourself.

[omgu8myrice]

just be happy that the BS rate of RROD we once had, is now slowly going down.

[rodeojones903]

just be happy that the BS rate of RROD we once had, is now slowly going down.


I'm still pissed that my replacement system sounds like I am blending ice when it reads a disc.

[Poor2More]

Im guessing the work of the PS3 Fanboys wanting to cause a ruckus but if not, then I would be surprised

[dank]

I have a launch premium, a new falcon premium, and my little brother has a Falcon elite. None of those 3 consoles have ever had RROD. I really think people just don't take care of their stuff. My launch premium is still sitting pretty and running great. I don't play that one as much anymore, but I played that thing about 20 hours a week up until I bought one of the new premiums with HDMI about a month ago.

dont worry once it happens to you and you cant use any xbla/dlc offline, youll feel real salty.

[Plinko]

Im guessing the work of the PS3 Fanboys wanting to cause a ruckus but if not, then I would be surprised

Yeah, blame the PS3 fanboys, because Microsoft has such a great record with console reliability. :roll:

[SL4IN]

Yeah, blame the PS3 fanboys, because Microsoft has such a great record with console reliability. :roll:

as does sony.

but seriously, I've yet my console to RRoD. Some people are just plain stupid with their consoles and how they take care of them. Out of all my friends that have 360's, only one of theirs has red ringed... why? Because it was a launch console he kept in an enclosed area and overheated. Well, I have a news flash for you, THINGS DO OVERHEAT. IT'S NOT JUST THE XBOX360. And for the people that bitch about the noise the 360 may/may not make, stop your bitching, trade the system in/get rid of it, or simply just don't play it. It'll certainly make you look a lot less like a baby than coming on internet forums and bitching about how your 360 makes some noise.

[javeryh]

Because it was a launch console he kept in an enclosed area and overheated. Well, I have a news flash for you, THINGS DO OVERHEAT. IT'S NOT JUST THE XBOX360.

This is completely unacceptable. I've owned just about every console over the last 25+ years and not a single one of them ever had a heating problem like the 360. I'm on my 3rd one and just last week the audio started to cut in and out after it's been on for about an hour - because of the heat. Plus, the noise is a problem - it sounds like a freaking jet engine.

Also, why shouldn't I be "allowed" to enclose it in an entertainment center or something? I don't want to stare at ugly ass electronics in my living room and neither does my wife. Maybe if I was in college or still living in an apartment I wouldn't really care. Plus, it would have a much shorter shelf-life if my kids can reach it. Every other console I own is inside my entertainment center and I've never had a single problem with any of them. Same thing with my receiver, router, cable box, etc. Microsoft has manufactured a complete piece of shit and still seems to continue doing so.

[Malik112099]

as does sony.

but seriously, I've yet my console to RRoD. Some people are just plain stupid with their consoles and how they take care of them. Out of all my friends that have 360's, only one of theirs has red ringed... why? Because it was a launch console he kept in an enclosed area and overheated. Well, I have a news flash for you, THINGS DO OVERHEAT. IT'S NOT JUST THE XBOX360. And for the people that bitch about the noise the 360 may/may not make, stop your bitching, trade the system in/get rid of it, or simply just don't play it. It'll certainly make you look a lot less like a baby than coming on internet forums and bitching about how your 360 makes some noise.



Cut your fingers off so I don't have to read this crap anymore.

[DomLando]

Completely untrue. You will be hard pressed to find someone more anal about dust/ventilation/cleaning that me and I had the RROD. It really is faulty hardware and not the fault of the user.
I agree. As I am anal about taking care of my stuff and I am on my sixth 360 since launch. They were not all RROD as I think two had disc drive issues but at least 3 of my had the RROD.

[SL4IN]

Cut your fingers off so I don't have to read this crap anymore.

Thanks for the intelligent response. I can see why you're such a contribution to this thread.

@javeryh

Every console has had it's faults, why is it unacceptable when the 360 has it's? I'm not saying it's justifiable, but you and countless other people insist that the 360 is the only console ever to have problems and break down on you. The ONLY console I've ever had that has never broken and is what I would call a perfect system was the NES Toploader. I have never seen one break, they are quite frankly the most perfectly put together system ever. Consoles break, hardware has some problems. I'm sorry you've had bad luck, if you're so pissed about it, don't play the damn thing. And as I said before, the noise problem is completely objective. PC's make noise, how many times do you see a poster bitch about that?

I'm not justifying the faults of the 360, let alone the faults of any other console. All I'm saying is the bitching is getting old. Get of the bandwagon.

[Vinny]

I'm still pissed that my replacement system sounds like I am blending ice when it reads a disc.

Heh.. and I thought it was bad when our replacement's tray wouldn't open.

[Apossum]

as does sony.

but seriously, I've yet my console to RRoD. Some people are just plain stupid with their consoles and how they take care of them. Out of all my friends that have 360's, only one of theirs has red ringed... why? Because it was a launch console he kept in an enclosed area and overheated. Well, I have a news flash for you, THINGS DO OVERHEAT. IT'S NOT JUST THE XBOX360. And for the people that bitch about the noise the 360 may/may not make, stop your bitching, trade the system in/get rid of it, or simply just don't play it. It'll certainly make you look a lot less like a baby than coming on internet forums and bitching about how your 360 makes some noise.

Xbox 360 Official coffin support group:
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91772&highlight=coffin+support
3500 replies

My 360 died and I lived to tell about it:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=148060&highlight=died+lived
7500 replies


Ever seen a product/system with such huge threads dedicated to the death of a product among their respective communities? It's not all user error. Do I even need to mention the $1 billion that MS took out? They aren't doing that because their customers are idiots. They're doing that to keep from getting sued. Just because a few of your friends don't get RRoD (I've never had it either and I've owned several 360s...), doesn't mean everyone else is fucking up.

[SL4IN]

Xbox 360 Official coffin support group:
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91772&highlight=coffin+support
3500 replies

My 360 died and I lived to tell about it:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=148060&highlight=died+lived
7500 replies


Ever seen a product/system with such huge threads dedicated to the death of a product among their respective communities? It's not all user error. Do I even need to mention the $1 billion that MS took out? They aren't doing that because their customers are idiots. They're doing that to keep from getting sued. Just because a few of your friends don't get RRoD (I've never had it either and I've owned several 360s...), doesn't mean everyone else is fucking up.

Oh, I'm not saying everyone else is screwing up. But when I see Hillbilly Joe walk into my store and tell us that his 360 broke, I begin to question the "casual gamer" that is mostly driving the market today. And while they aren't threads dedicated to it, (atleast not here) what about all the class action lawsuits sony has had on numerous products of theirs, including the disc read error in the ps2? No one ever talks about that, they act like MS is the first console manufacturer to ever have a console that has some problems.

[007]

See, I was always under the impression that the Falcon board GREATLY REDUCED the chances of RROD, not completely solved it. Something like taking it from a 30% failure rate down to about 10% or less.

That, and now having read the link, so it's, uh, one guy? When reports of hundreds of people start 'trickling' in, I'll worry, but one guy doesn't worry me much. Hell, maybe he just got a bum console. What I love is that he's one of the people who traded in an old console THAT STILL WORKED to get a Falcon chipset. Now, to me, that's putting way too much faith in something you, in actuality, know absolutely nothing about.

I reiterate, this becomes news when hundreds or thousands of consoles start bricking. Until then, I'm not really that concerned, you know? As someone else pointed out, the only way to be disappointed in the Falcon board is to have seen it as the second coming of Jesus, not the band-aid that it really was.

[Apossum]

Oh, I'm not saying everyone else is screwing up. But when I see Hillbilly Joe walk into my store and tell us that his 360 broke, I begin to question the "casual gamer" that is mostly driving the market today. And while they aren't threads dedicated to it, (atleast not here) what about all the class action lawsuits sony has had on numerous products of theirs, including the disc read error in the ps2? No one ever talks about that, they act like MS is the first console manufacturer to ever have a console that has some problems.


everyone was talking about it before the 360 came out. :lol:

[slickkill77]

...I have had only 2 360's since the launch....

[help1]

Guys guys guys, you don't fix whats not broken. MS is in a better position than ever before in terms of the XBOX franchise. Why would they change something that could possibly help them get into an even better position.

/sarcasm.

To think, MS could have already KO'd the PS3 if it never encountered these problems.

[dmaul1114]

Every console has had it's faults, why is it unacceptable when the 360 has it's? I'm not saying it's justifiable, but you and countless other people insist that the 360 is the only console ever to have problems and break down on you. The ONLY console I've ever had that has never broken and is what I would call a perfect system was the NES Toploader.

The 360 has a much higher fail rate than other consoles, that's why it is unacceptable.

And it sounds like you have shit look, or use the fuck out of your consoles as I've had a regular NES, SNES, gameboy, gameboy advance, ds phat, ds lite, N64, original PS1, Original PS2, Gamecube, X-box, Dreamcast, Wii and 360 and thus far have had nothing break (knocks on wood for my 360 bought last October). All worked fine until I sold them off, or are still going strong with a friend I gave them to.

[jakehoss]

I have a launch premium, a new falcon premium, and my little brother has a Falcon elite. None of those 3 consoles have ever had RROD. I really think people just don't take care of their stuff. My launch premium is still sitting pretty and running great. I don't play that one as much anymore, but I played that thing about 20 hours a week up until I bought one of the new premiums with HDMI about a month ago.

You should probably read alot more about this problem, and stop talking.

[javeryh]

@javeryh

Every console has had it's faults, why is it unacceptable when the 360 has it's? I'm not saying it's justifiable, but you and countless other people insist that the 360 is the only console ever to have problems and break down on you. The ONLY console I've ever had that has never broken and is what I would call a perfect system was the NES Toploader. I have never seen one break, they are quite frankly the most perfectly put together system ever. Consoles break, hardware has some problems. I'm sorry you've had bad luck, if you're so pissed about it, don't play the damn thing. And as I said before, the noise problem is completely objective. PC's make noise, how many times do you see a poster bitch about that?

I'm not justifying the faults of the 360, let alone the faults of any other console. All I'm saying is the bitching is getting old. Get of the bandwagon.

I shouldn't have to explain why a 30% failure rate is worse than the 3% failure rate of typical consumer electronics. Plus, it's a faulty design that is making all of them break instead of the typical user error or manufacturing error. If I leave my 360 on all day it WILL break - it IS worse than any other system.

As for the noise, it IS loud. It just is. No other console makes as much noise. Comparing it to a PC is fine I guess but I don't play PC games and when I'm on the computer I'm not in front of the TV or on the couch. Also, my 360 is at least 3 or 4 times louder than my PC so there's that too...

The reason everyone puts up with this crap and bitches endlessly is because when the 360 does work like it is supposed to it is super fun to play.

[TheBlueWizard]

I have a launch premium, a new falcon premium, and my little brother has a Falcon elite. None of those 3 consoles have ever had RROD. I really think people just don't take care of their stuff. My launch premium is still sitting pretty and running great. I don't play that one as much anymore, but I played that thing about 20 hours a week up until I bought one of the new premiums with HDMI about a month ago.

I used to think that people just treated their stuff like shit, until mine RRODed too. I am ANAL about taking care of my stuff and mine did it.

M$ really needs to figure out how to fix this thing. Once mine with the RROD happened, I bought a new one with HDMI and so far its been stable. Probably won't stay that way though.

TBW

[SL4IN]

The 360 has a much higher fail rate than other consoles, that's why it is unacceptable.

And it sounds like you have shit look, or use the fuck out of your consoles as I've had a regular NES, SNES, gameboy, gameboy advance, ds phat, ds lite, N64, original PS1, Original PS2, Gamecube, X-box, Dreamcast, Wii and 360 and thus far have had nothing break (knocks on wood for my 360 bought last October). All worked fine until I sold them off, or are still going strong with a friend I gave them to.

I never said I've owned every console.

The NES video would crap out after so many hours, but it was fixable. The PSX would die after so long (it was built to be disposable) because of too much play over time. The original PS2 had rampart problems with DRE's. The original XBOX had quite a few problems with the power supply dying. Yes, I get a lot of play out of my consoles, but from a hardware standpoint, the NES toploader is quite possibly the most perfectly put together system, and I've never seen one break. I work at a used video game store that also fixes consoles, and I've seen my fair share of all kinds of consoles come in broken and need to be fixed.

[DestroVega]

I don't understand why this problem isn't totally fixed yet... this is a gaming machine, not the human genome project...

We were talking about the RROD at dinner last night with my girlfriend's brother and dad (he works for IBM) and they are still totally baffled as to why the whole thing has yet to be fixed properly.

My first 360 lost all video, so I have had no RROD on my machines yet. It just doesn't make sense to me that this is still happening.

[mykevermin]

I'll hold my breath - no console has a 0% death rate, so it's to be expected that "Falcons," "Wingdings," and the other poorly named 360 boards will have RRODs happen. The heightened sensitivity of 360 owners to the problem would surely cause people to overreact and think "well, if the falcons RROD, then MS hasn't fixed the problem at all."

In reality, it may well have declined significantly since the 30%+ was rumored - but we won't really know as we accumulate anecdotes from those whose launch systems continue to die mixed in with a handful of falcons dying.

[Malik112099]

The NES video would crap out after so many hours

the NES toploader is quite possibly the most perfectly put together system, and I've never seen one break.



http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/8536/1201879244714xp3.jpg

[AGuth]

Oh, I'm not saying everyone else is screwing up. But when I see Hillbilly Joe walk into my store and tell us that his 360 broke, I begin to question the "casual gamer" that is mostly driving the market today. And while they aren't threads dedicated to it, (atleast not here) what about all the class action lawsuits sony has had on numerous products of theirs, including the disc read error in the ps2? No one ever talks about that, they act like MS is the first console manufacturer to ever have a console that has some problems.

So if a 'casual gamer' gets RRoDs on his 360, then it's questionable, but a hardcore gamer is credible? I absolutely love me some Xbox, but I can't deny that they are crappily made. Of the 14 360s I have owned, I have only gotten rings on two; However, nearly all of them eventually started to freeze up, or the drives would sound like they had broken glass in them during startup. In fact, my recent Falcon that I had all pimped out with the MS WiFi adapter and HD-DVD drive was awesome until a month ago when the friggin drive tray went out on me. If MS ever does a redesign, I would love to get a trayless drive.

[GrimNecroWizard]

On the original models I will believe that, but the new Falcon's? Until I see the setup of someone with a Falcon that got the RROD, I wont give their reports much credence. I'm not saying Falcon is the godsend either, but really, it is kinda hard to believe.

Quit arguing with this guy ^, it's obvious that it's impossible for hardware to malfunction.

[tgk2044]

apparently i don't have enough "ventilation" for my 360 when it got the RROD....

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/5368/0224081414nu5.th.jpg (http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0224081414nu5.jpg)

[Viva Las Vegas]

I have a launch premium, a new falcon premium, and my little brother has a Falcon elite. None of those 3 consoles have ever had RROD. I really think people just don't take care of their stuff. My launch premium is still sitting pretty and running great. I don't play that one as much anymore, but I played that thing about 20 hours a week up until I bought one of the new premiums with HDMI about a month ago.
Wow- are you serious? Are you related to Bill Gates?

[dafoomie]

I'm on my 3rd 360 since launch. While it is possible for you to get a Xenon that was built perfectly and won't fail, its unlikely. There were a number of problems which all cause the system to RROD, most of them stem from inadequate cooling which causes the clamps holding the heatsinks to the board, and eventually the board itself to warp. There were also problems with manufacturers having no experience with the new lead-free solder, leading to a very common problem with bad solder joints.

This has all been confirmed by insiders.
http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/digitaljoystick/archives/129866.asp

[Rakai]

The RRoD means a hardware failure. It doesn't mean it has anything to do with the problem that plagued the original models. All electronic devices can fail. My PS3 died after 2 months. It doesn't mean that there's a design flaw with the PS3. It is impossible to "cure" the RRoD because it is impossible to manufacture electronic devices with a 0% failure rate. The design flaw that caused the astronomical failure rate of the original model has been fixed though, and unless a different flaw pops up, this is a non-story; just a random hardware failure.

[Apossum]

apparently i don't have enough "ventilation" for my 360 when it got the RROD....

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/5368/0224081414nu5.th.jpg (http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0224081414nu5.jpg)



You mean you didn't buy the official MS air suspension wires?

[Mr.Pibb]

Improper cooling is a manufacturing problem in this case. The proper cooling (fans, thermal paste, heat sinks) needs to be in place from the get-go and shouldn't be relied on the end user... Especially not a console! The major selling point of any console today is the fact that it can be used as a home entertainment media center. Companies shouldn't expect everyone to be "cooling gurus." Regardless, proper cooling doesn't even require much. Also, with past consoles, failure was more of a rarity and not at common as the RRoD.

All 360 owners I see on the web are the same, your hypocritical about your own 360 and how it's never failed until the one day it actually does... you'll see.

I'm currently waiting on my 2nd 360 to arrive back from the repair shop... Until then I bought a PS3 to hold me over. 8-)

[jp0213]

Quit arguing with this guy ^, it's obvious that it's impossible for hardware to malfunction.

Where in any of my posts did I say hardware couldn't malfunction? I did say that none of my hardware has died, even the launch console that I played continuously for 2 years before I bought a new HDMI enabled Premium. I also never said the Falcon's couldn't die, just that I wouldn't take the reports of the death serious unless I seen a decent setup. Of all of my friends who have had their 360's die, they had it shoved in a little entertainment center cubbie-hole with no outlet for the hot air. I've never had my 360s flat, I've always had them stand up. Granted, I'll admit on the first model, without a steady base the drive did scratch a couple of my discs. Once I seen what the problem was I relocated where I had the 360 so it was on a steady and level area.

I've had big problems with two consoles. One was an original Xbox, that I had the power supplies go out of and the controller daughterboards die like crazy. The other one was the PS2. I went through 3 of those consoles. I bought one at launch and the laser crapped out after 3 months. The replacement I got did the same thing. I'm now sitting at a version 7 PS2 that is holding up quite nicely.

I will definitely agree with mykevermin and say that no console has a 0% death rate. I'm not naive enough to think that no 360 will die ever. All I was trying to say was that I personally had no issues with any of mine and haven't seen one die without there being an issue with the ventilation. I'm not excusing the design flaws that were definitely evident in the launch consoles. Up until the time I replaced it, I was always afraid, despite my best efforts, that it was going to die in the middle of a game. Luckily it didn't and I do feel blessed by that. I'm also not denying that there could be new problems with the newest boards, but until I see more concrete evidence than someone crying that theirs died and a larger number of people with the same story, like the original models, I wont place too much faith in those reports.

[Malik112099]

I personally had no issues with any of mine

you can't use your personal account of the reliability of a console (which has sold over 12 million units) as a blanket statement for all of them. No one has issues with the 360 till they have issues. I'm willing to bet if one red rings on you, your tone will change and you will join the masses with the same experience. I didn't complain once until my 360 died a little over a year after I owned it...then guess what? I complained.

[jp0213]

I agree that there was MORE than enough evidence on the initial launch consoles to say that there was a definite fault in the product. So far I've seen about ten or so reports, which includes the one that started this thread, with a Falcon board dying. I'm not saying I'm going to see them all either, the evidence behind the newer boards having the same defects just isn't there. Someone's personal account of a failure in the product doesn't mean the entire line is defective.

[tgk2044]

You mean you didn't buy the official MS air suspension wires?

nope, they were overpriced ;)

[Gourd]

Can we just stop arguing with jhp0213? I know it is an election year, but I tire of arguments that cannot ever be resolved due to unshakable underlining tenets.


I've been through two Elites, however both had DVD drive failures. ((Displays "Open Tray" regardless of what is put into them.)) The two of the three available drives for the 360 can be found in /any/ variant of 360 chipset. To me, this is more of an issue. Microsoft will repair RRODs for three years, but will only address other hardware problems for a year.

[GTzerO]

In during cognitive dissonance.

I totally believe that Falcon consoles have started to RROD, but only because I've lost all faith in Microsoft.

They'll have tons of fun getting people to buy their next console at launch.

[Gourd]

People WILL buy their console at launch because the games are that compelling.

[CouRageouS]

apparently i don't have enough "ventilation" for my 360 when it got the RROD....

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/5368/0224081414nu5.th.jpg (http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0224081414nu5.jpg)
:rofl: It needs to be closer to the freezer but not too close to the ice cream.

Also I like how the piece of paper on the board says GO RED!

[mykevermin]

In during cognitive dissonance.

I totally believe that Falcon consoles have started to RROD, but only because I've lost all faith in Microsoft.

They'll have tons of fun getting people to buy their next console at launch.

"carry over your gamerscore!" = massive sellthrough.

Besides, the PS2 wasn't hurt on account of the PSX's reliability.

[Gourd]

Besides, the PS2 wasn't hurt on account of the PSX's reliability.


Ah yes. Good times. Good times. Having to insert a disk, then turn your PS one upside down to get games to play.

[GTzerO]

"carry over your gamerscore!" = massive sellthrough.

Besides, the PS2 wasn't hurt on account of the PSX's reliability.

I just think that more people are going to be hesitant to buy early in general. Or at least I will.

Carrying over your gamerscore sure is tempting, though.

EDIT: I take that back. People already were hesitant to buy early., and still are. In all honesty, I just want this mess to be over with. I want to be able to trash my current 360 and buy a new one that I'm sure won't die. That's all I want right now.

[jman619]

Completely untrue. You will be hard pressed to find someone more anal about dust/ventilation/cleaning that me and I had the RROD. It really is faulty hardware and not the fault of the user.

What he said. I'm really anal about my consoles and taking care of anything in general. Mine red ringed as well.

[mykevermin]

:lol: Bingo.

[xx2541]

See, I was always under the impression that the Falcon board GREATLY REDUCED the chances of RROD, not completely solved it. Something like taking it from a 30% failure rate down to about 10% or less.

That, and now having read the link, so it's, uh, one guy? When reports of hundreds of people start 'trickling' in, I'll worry, but one guy doesn't worry me much. Hell, maybe he just got a bum console. What I love is that he's one of the people who traded in an old console THAT STILL WORKED to get a Falcon chipset. Now, to me, that's putting way too much faith in something you, in actuality, know absolutely nothing about.

I reiterate, this becomes news when hundreds or thousands of consoles start bricking. Until then, I'm not really that concerned, you know? As someone else pointed out, the only way to be disappointed in the Falcon board is to have seen it as the second coming of Jesus, not the band-aid that it really was.

Not just "one guy" as it seems. I do agree that it doesn't seem to be a big problem- yet. I just don't think the Falcons are the second coming of Christ, here to fix all of the RROD issues. The Falcons were a cost cutting measure for Microsoft- not a RROD fix, unless I am mistaken?

See Below:

http://forums.xbox.com/17947417/ShowPost.aspx

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stmZp4X7iOo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nFZntMUuz4

http://forums.xbox.com/18291883/ShowPost.aspx

Also, here is a weird harmless RROD error on the Falcons post(probably will turn to a fatal RROD in time):

http://forums.xbox.com/17078389/ShowPost.aspx

[mykevermin]

EDIT: I take that back. People already were hesitant to buy early., and still are. In all honesty, I just want this mess to be over with. I want to be able to trash my current 360 and buy a new one that I'm sure won't die. That's all I want right now.

People were hesitant to buy the 360 early!?!?!?! I couldn't get one until late April 2006, and I tried, man.

[trip1eX]

Anyone who doens't think the 360 is the most unreliable console in history is 1 sandwich short of a picnic.

[Snake2715]

The casual gamer is not people who are on the web searching out games, and posting on forums about games. Thats stepped ov er the casual gamer nametag and into something else.

I have had 2 360's and got out of them fairly quick. I went with the PS3 and Wii combo for now until I know this issue is gone.

[Slate]

"Epic Fail" Picture


I think he meant that he never saw a NES Top Loader fail but saw the regular NES mess up.

[tgk2044]

:rofl: It needs to be closer to the freezer but not too close to the ice cream.

Also I like how the piece of paper on the board says GO RED!

haha wow, i didn't even realize that. good stuff.

[metaly]

Did everyone see all those news stories about the GPU being the real RROD culprit? The Falcon is just a reduction in the CPU and shouldn't have really changed anything performance-wise, except for maybe a slightly smaller electricity bill.

Also, I'm curious. People who have gotten the RROD, how much did you use your 360s per day on average? Does session length tend to affect how likely the machine is to break?

[daminion]

snip


As an educated consumer who obviously knows enough about consoles and lot numbers to be able to buy a "falcon" 360 I'm surprised that you overlooked the evidence that:

1. The falcon's purpose was not to fix the heat issue -- it was a cost saving move on Microsoft's part due to the decreased cost of the falcon chip. Anything you heard about this helping solve the RROD was based on an assumption that the smaller technology ran colder, and as such would contribute to less heat in the overall system. It's a very poor assumption.

2. The RROD is caused by the graphics chip and it has nothing to do with the main processor. The graphics chip hasn't changed from release.

3. Microsoft will never announce when they change something on the inside of the machine. When they do "fix" it, you will never know. If they did they would be admitting fault and opening themselves up to litigation.

[javeryh]

Does session length tend to affect how likely the machine is to break?

Well, my 360 can play for about an hour (sometimes less) until it starts to overheat which causes the sound to cut in and out. If left on, the camera and HD-DVD drive will eventually turn red and become inoperable. I cannot watch an HD-DVD in one session without it shutting down. If I let it cool for about an hour things return to "normal" - it's highly annoying.

[dmaul1114]

3. Microsoft will never announce when they change something on the inside of the machine. When they do "fix" it, you will never know. If they did they would be admitting fault and opening themselves up to litigation.

They already announced that all consoles were flawed and could possibly break when they extended the warranty for RROD problems to 3 years.

The reason they won't announce any "fix" is because then the older stock would sit on shelves and never sell. Informed gamers will already not buy the older ones, if there's any official announcement even less informed gamers would skip the old and search for the fixed hardware.

[xx2541]

As an educated consumer who obviously knows enough about consoles and lot numbers to be able to buy a "falcon" 360 I'm surprised that you overlooked the evidence that:

1. The falcon's purpose was not to fix the heat issue -- it was a cost saving move on Microsoft's part due to the decreased cost of the falcon chip. Anything you heard about this helping solve the RROD was based on an assumption that the smaller technology ran colder, and as such would contribute to less heat in the overall system. It's a very poor assumption.

2. The RROD is caused by the graphics chip and it has nothing to do with the main processor. The graphics chip hasn't changed from release.

3. Microsoft will never announce when they change something on the inside of the machine. When they do "fix" it, you will never know. If they did they would be admitting fault and opening themselves up to litigation.

I already posted in this thread that the Falcon chip was NEVER a fix for the RROD. I knew this, but people seemed to fool themselves into thinking that it was.

[MSUHitman]

Was Cheapy's Japanese Arcade Eternal Sonata bundle system a Falcon or not? Don't remember for sure.

[fart_bubble]

Anyone who doens't think the 360 is the most unreliable console in history is 1 sandwich short of a picnic.

frankly I would say that the PSX and PS2 beats it in the unreliability factor

[dmaul1114]

frankly I would say that the PSX and PS2 beats it in the unreliability factor

Various articles have estimated the 360 failure rate as higher than both of those. But of course the validity of those is up in the air.

Then again, Sony never had to come out and say that all consoles are defective and extend their warranty 3 years either which would suggest the problems weren't as widespread.

I love the 360, but theirs no denying it's failure rate is almost definitely the worst we've seen on any major console.

[DestroVega]

The PS2 was pretty bad at overheating, I burned it out like 4 times.

[dmaul1114]

The PS2 was pretty bad at overheating, I burned it out like 4 times.

PS2 definitely had lots of problems, just seems like the 360 has took it's crown as most unreliable major console ever.

I say major, as consoles that sold like crap (3D0, Jaguar etc.) didn't sell enough or stay around long enough for us to have much idea of their reliability.

[whoknows]

frankly I would say that the PSX and PS2 beats it in the unreliability factor

Somehow I doubt that.

Sure those consoles had problems, but the 360 is just amazing with it's failure rate.

[62t]

PSOne can still be playable upside down on the side for some people. For PS2 often is a case of either CD or DVD not working. With RROD there is nothing you can do.

[Slayzz]

frankly I would say that the PSX and PS2 beats it in the unreliability factor

I don't think PSX and PS2's problem were as wide spread as the RROD. Everyone I know have had RROD on their 360s. I'm already on the third 360. My launch PS2 only have DRE problem, it wasn't so bad as its only have problem reading cd games.

[bh7812]

Ya know, this whole RROD situation is really pathetic. They just need to deal with and truly fix it already. I had a launch 360 that gave out this time last year...the 360 they sent back up to me was brand new..has worked great up till Friday. It's happening at the worst possible time with Lost Odyssey :( Funny thing is it hasn't officially red-ringed yet. It's freezing after a minite or two of playing. I got to Disc 2 without any problems, few hours into disc 2 is when the freezing started. I'll try moving the 360 and see if that helps but it looks like I'll need to send it down to Texas. This will be 360 number 2, just ridiculous.

I have an NES that STILL works to this day, granted ya gotta blow into the thing to get it working but it still runs.

I have a Super NES that STILL works..Original Game Boy...A-OK, GBA..works great...Gamecube...works great too. DS works perfect. Hell my Wii is running great.

My PS2, PS3 and PSP all work great..what I'm tryin to say is I've NEVER ever had to worry about this kind of thing with any of my other systems.

It's a dis-service when this happens to your customers, in this case, Microsoft. It's one thing to wanna get your system to market and be competitive, but it's another to rush it out wanting to beat Sony to the punch. Another year in the oven and this problem wouldn't be happening as much as it is.

As great as LO is, and it's a fantastic game, I'm sadly wondering if it's worth it to go to the trouble to get a 3rd 360 when I know this will happen again. This is why Sakaguchi needs to think about porting LO to PS3, just because on that machine, I'd have a good chance to actually finish the game.

Microsoft, no matter how great the games are...they could truly be perfect 10 games..they won't do anyone any good unless the hardware works and is reliable. Please fix the issue, for the sake of your customers.

[CheapyD]

Was Cheapy's Japanese Arcade Eternal Sonata bundle system a Falcon or not? Don't remember for sure.

No (and it was a Trusty Bell pack).

[Niblet]

Didnt check to see if this has been posted but I've read and even heard on the CAGcast that the falcons are not RROD-proof. The problem for most units is the graphics card. The future boards are supposed to have more efficient gfx cards which should drastically reduce RRODs

[VipFREAK]

lool funny thread.

[xx2541]

Ya know, this whole RROD situation is really pathetic. They just need to deal with and truly fix it already. I had a launch 360 that gave out this time last year...the 360 they sent back up to me was brand new..has worked great up till Friday. It's happening at the worst possible time with Lost Odyssey :( Funny thing is it hasn't officially red-ringed yet. It's freezing after a minite or two of playing. I got to Disc 2 without any problems, few hours into disc 2 is when the freezing started. I'll try moving the 360 and see if that helps but it looks like I'll need to send it down to Texas. This will be 360 number 2, just ridiculous.

I have an NES that STILL works to this day, granted ya gotta blow into the thing to get it working but it still runs.

I have a Super NES that STILL works..Original Game Boy...A-OK, GBA..works great...Gamecube...works great too. DS works perfect. Hell my Wii is running great.

My PS2, PS3 and PSP all work great..what I'm tryin to say is I've NEVER ever had to worry about this kind of thing with any of my other systems.

It's a dis-service when this happens to your customers, in this case, Microsoft. It's one thing to wanna get your system to market and be competitive, but it's another to rush it out wanting to beat Sony to the punch. Another year in the oven and this problem wouldn't be happening as much as it is.

As great as LO is, and it's a fantastic game, I'm sadly wondering if it's worth it to go to the trouble to get a 3rd 360 when I know this will happen again. This is why Sakaguchi needs to think about porting LO to PS3, just because on that machine, I'd have a good chance to actually finish the game.

Microsoft, no matter how great the games are...they could truly be perfect 10 games..they won't do anyone any good unless the hardware works and is reliable. Please fix the issue, for the sake of your customers.

I couldn't agree more. :applause:

Shame on Micro$oft. It doesn't matter how good the games are if people can't play them due to dead hardware. My PS3 is built like a tank compared to my 360 (and whisper quiet too).

Shameful.

[bostonfrontier]

wow, thank god I got my Falcon at costco........ Lifetime warranty baby!!!!!!!!!

I smartened up after my first 360 RROD

[BULL_Ship]

wow, thank god I got my Falcon at costco........ Lifetime warranty baby!!!!!!!!!

I smartened up after my first 360 RROD

What wow? This one report? BTW who ever said it was the video card overheating should show some evidence. Many PC videocards hit 80c in stock form. Unlike processors they are less sensitive to heat. Besides that heat on videocards usually results in artifacting like the kind seen on early wii's.

[xx2541]

What wow? This one report? BTW who ever said it was the video card overheating should show some evidence. Many PC videocards hit 80c in stock form. Unlike processors they are less sensitive to heat. Besides that heat on videocards usually results in artifacting like the kind seen on early wii's.

It's more than one report. See the original post with the links. It's not epidemic - yet. It's still early for the Falcon's performance metrics out in the wild. Time will tell if they shit the bed like earlier models. The Falcon was never intended as a fix for the RROD. I don't have high hopes, unfortunately...

[dmaul1114]

wow, thank god I got my Falcon at costco........ Lifetime warranty baby!!!!!!!!!

I smartened up after my first 360 RROD

I thought Costco was stopped warranties on 360s last year? Or was that some other store?

[V Illuminati V]

This is getting really sad. The 360 has been out for over a year and they still havn't fixed this? I'm on my 5th 360 and if I get another RROD I'm going to be pissed.

[chwisch87]

Well, Best Buy still provides product replacement plans for the system and as long as they keep that up, I don't care about the RROD honestly. I have a falcon and of course, I believe with proper care and keeping the system in an open space will allow my console to last many years to come ... i hope anyway. I have a replacement plan for mine but i'm obviously not standing in line to spend 60 bucks which could buy me another game or two lol.

As far as Falcon's go, the "insider" source said the failure rate on them was about 10 to 15% I believe. It actually runs cooler than my PS3 from the best i can tell. This is of course coming the temp of the air that comes out the back of the system; it could just mean that the thing doesn't really exchange the heat all that well. I put my system horizontally to make sure a high about of air can get in and also in a open space. I'm also planning on elevating it a bit. A lot of the system pictures of post-RROD I have seen of the console is when they are kept in closed spaces. This is not to say that open space storage for the console totally prevents the RROD but it probably helps somewhat.

[chwisch87]

This is getting really sad. The 360 has been out for over a year and they still havn't fixed this? I'm on my 5th 360 and if I get another RROD I'm going to be pissed.

Its a bad design to begin with. Until a totally revamped from the ground up MOBO/SKU is designed, i don't think we are going to see a day of RROD free xbox's.

[GTzerO]

I'm thinking in an attempt to make a console that's lean and stylish yet high performing Microsoft didn't pay enough attention to the design.

[SL4IN]

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/8536/1201879244714xp3.jpg

would you happen to explain why this picture is relevant to what you quoted me on? Because all you've accomplished by posting this in response to me is that you're an ass and you're not very smart.

[refusedchaos]

man SL4IN, i thought u were better that. stop acting like a fanboy

the reason y I am piss off about the 360 is that out of ALL the consoles i ever owned (from the og Atari to present), NONE of them ever broke nor had a problem with me EXCEPT the 360. for the first year i ignored this issue of the RRoDs and overheating cause i said to myself "hey its new tech thats more fragile, they just need to iron out the kinks for the first year" but no, things are still the same. but again, i can ignore it for now since repair is free and GoW II hasnt came out yet. BUT the thing that really irritates me is that i all my games (except those boughten used) are minty and like new but my 360 ones arent cause my box keeps of scratching them. fuck, i wanted to punch the console when i saw it make sum scratches on my Naruto game and wanted to throw it out of the window when it split my Gears of War disc in half. Now this business with people saying that people dont take care of their stuff: take the dick out of your ass and listen. Sure, i bet there are 360s out there thst dont get taken care of (like the kiosk ones) but most of us do. hell, my has its own lil area, in a AC room, well ventilated, dust free, and i give my 360 cooling off periods when i know i played it too much. However, i STILL managed to get 8 broken 360 in and out of my house. its now my 9th 360 that comign back to me in a few weeks while every other system i only had one. Hell wouldnt u be mad if you dropped 400 bones on something that broke a few weeks later?

[SL4IN]

man SL4IN, i thought u were better that. stop acting like a fanboy

the reason y I am piss off about the 360 is that out of ALL the consoles i ever owned (from the og Atari to present), NONE of them ever broke nor had a problem with me EXCEPT the 360. for the first year i ignored this issue of the RRoDs and overheating cause i said to myself "hey its new tech thats more fragile, they just need to iron out the kinks for the first year" but no, things are still the same. but again, i can ignore it for now since repair is free and GoW II hasnt came out yet. BUT the thing that really irritates me is that i all my games (except those boughten used) are minty and like new but my 360 ones arent cause my box keeps of scratching them. fuck, i wanted to punch the console when i saw it make sum scratches on my Naruto game and wanted to throw it out of the window when it split my Gears of War disc in half. Now this business with people saying that people dont take care of their stuff: take the dick out of your ass and listen. Sure, i bet there are 360s out there thst dont get taken care of (like the kiosk ones) but most of us do. hell, my has its own lil area, in a AC room, well ventilated, dust free, and i give my 360 cooling off periods when i know i played it too much. However, i STILL managed to get 8 broken 360 in and out of my house. its now my 9th 360 that comign back to me in a few weeks while every other system i only had one. Hell wouldnt u be mad if you dropped 400 bones on something that broke a few weeks later?

I didn't think I was acting like a fanboy, sorry.

I'm really sorry to hear about your misfortune. I've never experienced these problems (though from experience I find that the scratching of the discs by the 360 happens by either a) the console is moved while it is operating, or b) people stand the 360 upwards). I'm not a MS fanboy by any means, I guess I just find it hard to swallow that people have such problems with their hardware. It's like back a few years ago when people started claiming that the AC adapter cord for their original xbox was catching fire and demanded a replace. Turned out it was small group of people in texas that where bitching for no reason, and microsoft still compensated not only them, but everyone else that "felt it was necessary."

Sorry again for your misfortune, I'm not trying to come off as a fanboy, but when people like malik brings nonsenical, irrelevant and ignorant posts directed towards me, I'm going to defend myself and my experiences.

[Caswell]

2. The RROD is caused by the graphics chip and it has nothing to do with the main processor. The graphics chip hasn't changed from release.

The physical die size of the GPU did shrink. It's not 65nm, but the difference in size is in line with the drop from 90nm to 80nm. From a cost perspective, why would MS change the CPU if the process remained 90nm?

While not a direct change to the GPU, the heatsink / heatpipe setup for the GPU has changed as well.

Personally, I think it's too soon to tell how much of an impact those changes will have on reliability. I've got a Falcon, but I've also got a Best Buy PRP, something I've only purchased once before. I also think it's possible that none of the changes made to process will make the 360's reliability acceptable. It's no coincidence that the two parts that fail the most frequently (the GPU and the DVD drive) are literally on top of each other, with either's cooling solution comprimised by the other's proximity.

[pete5883]

I'm not a MS fanboy by any means, I guess I just find it hard to swallow that people have such problems with their hardware.
So people can take care of Gamecubes, Xboxes, PS3s, Wiis, DSs, and PSPs, but "people can't take care of their 360s" and Microsoft shelling out a billion dollars to fix them is just a coincidence?

There were people just like you claiming that all the DREs for PS2s were user error. I did nothing wrong, and yet my PS2 needed to be sent to fix DRE's every year.

[dmaul1114]

So people can take care of Gamecubes, Xboxes, PS3s, Wiis, DSs, and PSPs, but "people can't take care of their 360s" and Microsoft shelling out a billion dollars to fix them is just a coincidence?


Exactly. It's not rocket science. The console is fucking faulty. MS OFFICIALLY announced that EVERY console had a flaw that could lead to the RROD failures when they shelled out a billion dollars to pay for a 3 year warranty extension to fix the problem.

The console was rushed out to beat the PS3 and Wii by a year, cutting the X-box short at 4 years, and for this and whatever other reasons they did a piss poor job in engineering the machine from heat dissipation stand point.

[SL4IN]

So people can take care of Gamecubes, Xboxes, PS3s, Wiis, DSs, and PSPs, but "people can't take care of their 360s" and Microsoft shelling out a billion dollars to fix them is just a coincidence?

There were people just like you claiming that all the DREs for PS2s were user error. I did nothing wrong, and yet my PS2 needed to be sent to fix DRE's every year.


I never said people CAN'T take care of their consoles, I said some people DON'T and that's fact. It doesn't matter what system it is.

MS shelling out the money to fix them is solely on their part, to boost not only good PR for a "faulty" console and to increase customer support, and they're giving a warranty for 3 years.

And if you had gone back to my older posts, you would have seen that I stated that other consoles have problems, I'm just pointing out that people bitch about the 360 having them, like it's the end of the world. I know what it's like to have a DRE PS2, I've had multiple and it's aggravating. Especially when it's out of warranty and you call sony's piss poor attempt at a customer service line and they tell you you're shit out of luck unless you want to shell out the cash. While yes, the RRoD is frustrating and it's somewhat of a problem, MS is giving the courtesy of an extended warranty from the date of purchase of the console, they're not required to do that.

And yes, people do take care of their consoles, but shit still happens. Case in point, almost every console that's been made.

[Rollett]

I'm still pissed that my replacement system sounds like I am blending ice when it reads a disc.

My 3rd (Refurb) from MS 360 sounds like a ice grinder 24/7 im constantly talking my self out of just buying a new one....

[GuilewasNK]

The only systems I ever had issue with were the NES (blinking problems) and my first generation PS One (skipping problems). Eventually anything with moving parts will break down, but it shouldn't be like it is with the 360.

[Caliburn]

The RROD is a manufacturer premium that ships with all 360's; the time for actualization per unit varies. :D

I'll probably pick up a 360 once the RROD dilemma is solved.

[dmaul1114]

And yes, people do take care of their consoles, but shit still happens. Case in point, almost every console that's been made.

But it happens MUCH more often on the 360 than any other major console.

That's just absolutely indisputeable. No other console has led to official announcements that it has a flaw and a $1 billion dollar warranty extension. It wasn't just good PR, it was a way to thwart off some class action law suits that were brewing under consumer protection acts/lemon laws.

No other console has had various analysts estimate a failure rate of 30% etc. etc.

I love the 360, but it's a flawed console with a higher failure rate than any major one before it--even the PS2 which had it's fair share of problems. Just because you had lots of PS2 problems and apparently no 360 problems doesn't mean the 360 has a lower failure rate. It just means you had shitty luck with the PS2 adn not the 360 thus far.

Anyone that says otherwise is just delusional.

[MSUHitman]

No (and it was a Trusty Bell pack).

Thanks Cheapy. Sorry, couldn't remember the Jap. name for Eternal Sonata.

[keithp]

I'll probably pick up a 360 once the RROD dilemma is solved.

Same here. I keep checking in every now and then to see if anything's changed and I guess not much has.

Anyone know when the next hardware revision is supposed to take place? Someone said the GPU was supposed to shrink further, is that the next rev coming and is there a codename for it like Falcon? I just want to know what to look for.

[chex20]

Sooner or later it will happen to most consoles. Microsoft can try to prevent it, but I'm sure it will just happen again. My launch console (manufacture in late December of 2005) and it finally crapped out (well, it actually plays and reads all games fine, but on occasion it will freeze then I have to manually restart it only to get a RROD only once then it will be fine once restarted the second time).

[CosmosTheMouse]

Oddly enough i've had one for a bit now and it's been working ok (knock on wood).
It's a Falcon too. I've kept it well vented and everything.

But here's the WEIRD part.
I've had 3 Wii's already. 1st one had a screwed up optical drive, the second had a graphic card issue (locking up) and my 3rd one had ANOTHER optical drive "fall off center". They just repaired it and are sending it back (it said $75 dollars : but free under warranty).

I seem to be living in reverse bizzaro world.

[NTolerance]

Its a bad design to begin with. Until a totally revamped from the ground up MOBO/SKU is designed, i don't think we are going to see a day of RROD free xbox's.

Might be right. I think the one major mistake was making the enclosure too small. The Xbox has a friggin' 3-core CPU, therefore the case should be big enough to hold larger heatsink-fans and provide clear ventilation from one end to the other.

Seems like Microsoft paid too much attention to the people who complained about the aesthetics of the first Xbox, so now we pay the price for all the bitching. Really now, a game console is about what's happening on the screen, not what it looks like at the bottom of your entertainment center. Think about the average size of a stereo receiver, it's usually 19" wide and maybe 5"-6" tall. If you're into HD gaming you probably have one of these. Why can't the game console be the same size and shape? It'll fit in better with the rest of your components and be better cooled and more reliable. Ugh. :bomb:

[youbastards]

The reason everyone puts up with this crap and bitches endlessly is because when the 360 does work like it is supposed to it is super fun to play.

Don't forget the thousands of dollars we have invested in games/accessories/XBoxLive/XBL Points...

I am on my 5th 360 and my 2nd PS3.
2 360's had RROD
2 had Disc Read Errors

My PS3 stopped recognizing the hdd, i had the extended warranty and exchanged it for a new one.

The 360 is the worst experience i have had with a console and I started with the 2600.

Ever since the PS1, and the mainstream disc based medium that requires moving parts, the quality of hardware has gone downhill and faulty hardware has become 'something to expect'.

The exception is Nintendo, I have yet to have a problem with a single piece of hardware they have produced, cartridge or disc based.

[NTolerance]

Ever since the PS1, and the mainstream disc based medium that requires moving parts, the quality of hardware has gone downhill and faulty hardware has become 'something to expect'.


You're right about that. Moving parts FTL. It would be great if the flash memory industry could get prices to really bottom out before the next console generation. With any luck we'll be right back where we started - game cartridges. 8-)

[the3rdkey]

I like people who act like this isn't a problem and that it is something the users are doing to f it up. Get over your fanboyism and realize MS made a POS product. If mine breaks again I will probably get the coffin and send the fixed one off to the Ebays.

[dmaul1114]

Think about the average size of a stereo receiver, it's usually 19" wide and maybe 5"-6" tall. If you're into HD gaming you probably have one of these. Why can't the game console be the same size and shape? It'll fit in better with the rest of your components and be better cooled and more reliable. Ugh. :bomb:


I couldn't fit anything else the size of a receiver in my TV stand height wise, and I imagine many people are that way unless they have a separate AV rack from their TV stand or entertainment center.

but the 360 definitely could have been wider and longer and better ventilated (while staying the same height). Height tends to be a problem as most stands only have one taller place to put something like a receiver, or with adjustable shelves you can only make one taller place and still have enough shelving for all the other crap (DVD players, cable boxes, consoles etc.).

Though you can always just put a console on the floor as long as it's not on carpet. My 360 was on the hardwood floor for months before I sold my PS2 and made room for it in the TV stand.

[Thomas96]

POS products are nothing new to the gaming industry... Mad Catz, and Nyko have been making sorry periphreals for a long time. But the reason why they stay in business is due to people supporting their products. If MS put a product anywhere outside of the video game market that performed like the 360. This product would definitely fail. Who would buy a cell phone that dies 30% of the time. If the 360 was a cell phone, MS would have been out of the cell phone business. The problem with the video game industry is that you buy the system, then you're invested more and more with every game, and periphreal that you by for the system. So its difficult to give up on the system when you're sitting around with 2 controllers 1200 points and a year of XBL. When you've invested so much, its hard to leave.

I have a 360, I play it every bluemoon, I'd love to play it more, but damn, by the time I get into a game and start enjoying games from the library I have to worry about my system malfunctioning.

Save your receipts... cause I know there's going to be a class action lawsuit.

[NTolerance]

I couldn't fit anything else the size of a receiver in my TV stand height wise, and I imagine many people are that way unless they have a separate AV rack from their TV stand or entertainment center.

but the 360 definitely could have been wider and longer and better ventilated (while staying the same height). Height tends to be a problem as most stands only have one taller place to put something like a receiver, or with adjustable shelves you can only make one taller place and still have enough shelving for all the other crap (DVD players, cable boxes, consoles etc.).

Though you can always just put a console on the floor as long as it's not on carpet. My 360 was on the hardwood floor for months before I sold my PS2 and made room for it in the TV stand.

All you folks with the damn minimalist decor need to get bigger TV stands. ;)

[adawg555]

All you folks with the damn minimalist decor need to get bigger TV stands. ;)

Really. I got a 360, Wii, Ps3, DVD Player, and a Receiver in mine.

Anyway, the RROD has NOTHING to do with user error. I treat my consoles like they are my children and got RROD after 2 years a month ago.

[mav451]

Hrmm, as a 100% Nintendo owner since birth (NES, SNES, GC, Wii) - I have had none of them fail. Oh and of course GBA and DS. Other than the cracked hinges on the DS, I would believe failure rate is miniscule (<1%).

Maybe I'm treading into the lion's den with my recent Target purchase of the 360, who knows. I wonder if by 3 years end, MS will be "gearing" up (pun fully intended) for the next-gen.

[Bathory]

You never know if he tried to get those red rings on purpose.;)

[Corvin]

Hrmm, as a 100% Nintendo owner since birth (NES, SNES, GC, Wii) - I have had none of them fail. Oh and of course GBA and DS. Other than the cracked hinges on the DS, I would believe failure rate is miniscule (<1%).

Maybe I'm treading into the lion's den with my recent Target purchase of the 360, who knows. I wonder if by 3 years end, MS will be "gearing" up (pun fully intended) for the next-gen.

I've owned them all as well, but there is no comparison between those systems and what's inside a 360. A 360 is basically a super computer in comparison.

It's still no excuse, but I'm just saying it's apples and oranges. BTW, this comes from someone who just had his 3rd 360 die yesterday.

[Ultimate Matt X]

It's unfortunate that more people don't show their disgust at problems with their wallet, but it is understandable to an extent considering how invested we are in the systems after purchase.

Personally, I'm dealing with the lack of quality hardware on the 360 in a gradual way. Though I know Sony has issues too, their machine seems reliable so I'm not buying all major single player games on PS3. Microsoft only gets my money for multiplayer games unless their is a significant reason to get the 360 version. Over time and through price drops I'd like to get rid of all my 360 multi-platform games.

On the subject of hardware, I'm on my 3rd DS or at least the third round with the original system and my Wii makes some scary noises, so Nintendo isn't immune to hardware problems either. But yeah the 360 is in a league of its own in terms of lack of quality.

[mav451]

Haha - what happened to the first two DS's that you had? I'm presuming you're talking DS Phat, not DS Lite?

[depascal22]

My third 360 should be here tomorrow. I'm seriously considering selling it and just being done with it. I could get some good money for it and all the games and accessories I've got.

[KingBroly]

I think my 2nd 360 is about to go. Earlier today it started reading Lego Indy really sluggish, sometimes leaving me with 15-30 seconds of black screen, wondering if the game froze up.

[Access_Denied]

Microsoft just isn't doing enough to try to fix this. There's so many things they need to try. Bigger fans? Bigger housing? Get rid of the X-Clamps? Let's go MS, you've done nothing but tell people that you've actually done something. The only reason the PS3 is still alive is because everybody is sick of your shit. (Which I guess I should be happy for, as I like the PS3 better. The PS3 will come out on top in the end.)

[ricoraney]

Listen, you are one of the fortunate ones. Within 1 month, this month at that, I had my tray go, my hard drive corrupt almost 8gb of game saves and content, my game freeze on me for the last time, because after that it wouldn't read any more of my games. Just face it, they make their systems like shit!

[mav451]

Someone mentioned the size of the original Xbox - did that have a similar history of unreliability?

[Access_Denied]

Someone mentioned the size of the original Xbox - did that have a similar history of unreliability?

I'm not sure, as I've never heard of any. But then again, I never heard of PS2s having DRE problems. Probably because I didn't have the internet.

I just mentioned size, as maybe if they increased the case size to allow more unused space, it wouldn't heat up as much.

I'm just saying that MS isn't attacking this problem well enough. :bomb:

[depascal22]

My original Xbox's hard drive failed and left me with a brick. At least I got $50 for the parts. I paid for a new Xbox but I didn't really play anything but multi player after that because I didn't know if the game saves would be there.

[coolsteel]

Someone mentioned the size of the original Xbox - did that have a similar history of unreliability?



Bad dvd drives was the one I always heard about, I had one originally and Enter the Matrix must have frozen about 80 times. I finally said screw it, bought another with the updated drive, never had one problem after that, regret selling it a little now , some of my favorites still haven't made it to the backwards compatibility list


I'm not sure, as I've never heard of any. But then again, I never heard of PS2s having DRE problems. Probably because I didn't have the internet.

I just mentioned size, as maybe if they increased the case size to allow more unused space, it wouldn't heat up as much.

I'm just saying that MS isn't attacking this problem well enough. :bomb:

Fat style ps2's would stop reading blue backed disc or just give DRE in general. Slim ps2's if you were unlucky enough would just overheat. I never once minded the size of the xbox so a bigger case wouldn't have bothered me, not exactly like the ps3 is small or something.

[depascal22]

Most of the PS2 DRE's were easily fixed. Cost me $30 to get my blue laser (CD) adjusted and it was as good as new. OG Xbox hard drive failures turned the system into a brick.

[62t]

the original xbox had problem with thomson dirves. But they were pretty easy to fix yourself.