Keyes doesn't want Senate elected by Popular Vote.

[Sarang01]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040814/ap_on_el_se/illinois_senate_1

Check it out. Words just fail me.

Also I honestly don't understand how Republicans think they'll hurt Obama's stance in the Democratic Party by unleashing a Black opponent whose views expoused are less than desirable to the American people, or at least to me for this circumstance.

[PittsburghAfterDark]

You expect a link to a CD from an Asian music store to be proof of this?

Original link in case of edit. (http://www.asiandb.com/store/detail.pfm?num=91)

[guardian_owl]

You expect a link to a CD from an Asian music store to be proof of this?

Hehe

Link to Actual News Story (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040814/ap_on_el_se/illinois_senate_1)

[Sarang01]

God I can't believe I didn't re"copy". X-(

[PittsburghAfterDark]

I figured that's what it was going to be, a 17th Ammendment issue. There are better arguments for this than you can imagine. It was put in place to avoid corruption by political machines, Tammany Hall being a good example as any.

However you can also argue that people are better served by having elected representative elect their senator. The one thing that makes me think of this is an Alexis de Tocqueville quote "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money". I think if we had one more level of picking elected leaders we might slow down entitlement spending.

After all, no one felt better about enacting $1.5 trillion in annual entitlements than our own elected officials who are more than happy to spend money that has never been theirs. It's never going to happen of course but it is not as bad a thought as you think it is.

[David85]

Well Keyes is a crazy dumbfuck, so what do you think he is going to say? Something sane? hahaha

He made fun of Hillary Clinton running for senator in a State that she didn't live in and what is he doing? Oh yeah the same god damn thing.

[Sarang01]

I figured that's what it was going to be, a 17th Ammendment issue. There are better arguments for this than you can imagine. It was put in place to avoid corruption by political machines, Tammany Hall being a good example as any.

However you can also argue that people are better served by having elected representative elect their senator. The one thing that makes me think of this is an Alexis de Tocqueville quote "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money". I think if we had one more level of picking elected leaders we might slow down entitlement spending.

After all, no one felt better about enacting $1.5 trillion in annual entitlements than our own elected officials who are more than happy to spend money that has never been theirs. It's never going to happen of course but it is not as bad a thought as you think it is.

My problem is I don't want someone electing one of their cronies to a powerful position that I can't get rid of them in even in the next 6 years or after.

[elprincipe]

There are many things I agree with Keyes on and I believe he's a very sincere and good person. OTOH, his running for Senate in Illinois is just plain wrong, just as Hillary running in New York or Lautenberg being allowed to replace Torricelli in New Jersey. He's not from Illinois (in fact, he already has run for Senate in Maryland!) and therefore shouldn't be allowed to run. He should not have accepted the invitation to run, big mistake. I also have to say I strongly disagree on the Senate elections issue with Keyes as well. Indirectly-elected senators would not allow for as much public control over the body.

[Quackzilla]

He is just there to attack Obama and try and hurt his reputation through libel and slander.

The RNC does not want a smart and successful black person in office, especially a Democrat.

[Sarang01]

He is just there to attack Obama and try and hurt his reputation through libel and slander.

The RNC does not want a smart and successful black person in office, especially a Democrat.

Agreed. Personally I think they're afraid of him. I mean let's be honest, these days NO one takes Jesse Jackson as seriously but ESPECIALLY no one takes Ted Kennedy seriously. A new Black leader in the forefront would be a great thing though I'd almost like to see Tavis Smiley run for office. I mean THERE'S a great man.

[elprincipe]

He is just there to attack Obama and try and hurt his reputation through libel and slander.

The RNC does not want a smart and successful black person in office, especially a Democrat.

Think about what you just said...Keyes is black! Oh wait, so is JC Watts, who was House Whip on the Republican side. Slander and libel indeed.

Anyway, on the subject of Obama, I liked some of his speech at the Democratic Convention. Unfortunately, Al Sharpton basically came along the next day and took a big dump over everything he had to say. I have little doubt Obama will win, and hopefully he will make a good senator. He certainly seems up to the job judging by his convention speech.

[Quackzilla]

He is just there to attack Obama and try and hurt his reputation through libel and slander.

The RNC does not want a smart and successful black person in office, especially a Democrat.

Think about what you just said...Keyes is black! Oh wait, so is JC Watts, who was House Whip on the Republican side. Slander and libel indeed.

Anyway, on the subject of Obama, I liked some of his speech at the Democratic Convention. Unfortunately, Al Sharpton basically came along the next day and took a big dump over everything he had to say. I have little doubt Obama will win, and hopefully he will make a good senator. He certainly seems up to the job judging by his convention speech.

But Keyes is just a token, like Rice and Powell.

The Republicans just choose spineless losers who will not question anything and will follow like sheep.


Obama is smart and successful, and unlike the Republican tokens, he would actually DO things.

[elprincipe]

He is just there to attack Obama and try and hurt his reputation through libel and slander.

The RNC does not want a smart and successful black person in office, especially a Democrat.

Think about what you just said...Keyes is black! Oh wait, so is JC Watts, who was House Whip on the Republican side. Slander and libel indeed.

Anyway, on the subject of Obama, I liked some of his speech at the Democratic Convention. Unfortunately, Al Sharpton basically came along the next day and took a big dump over everything he had to say. I have little doubt Obama will win, and hopefully he will make a good senator. He certainly seems up to the job judging by his convention speech.

But Keyes is just a token, like Rice and Powell.

The Republicans just choose spineless losers who will not question anything and will follow like sheep.

Obama is smart and successful, and unlike the Republican tokens, he would actually DO things.

Oh, I see. Anyone who is black and conservative is a "token" and a "spineless loser", but anyone who is black and liberal is "smart and successful" and would "do things". :roll:

[Quackzilla]

No, I am saying that the RNC has a tendancy to appoint incopetant black people just because they are black.

There is a history of racism in the republican party, and they needed some black faces high up the ladder.
But they didn't want smart or opinionated people so they just chose some morons that they could keep in line.

I would recommend learning a little about the history of both parties, there is a lot of interesting dirt on both sides that they are currently trying to sweep under the carpet, the democrates have to be politically correct, though, and that could be viewed as either a strength or a weakness, but the republicans are a bit less tactful when dealing with issues of race.

[elprincipe]

No, I am saying that the RNC has a tendancy to appoint incopetant black people just because they are black.

There is a history of racism in the republican party, and they needed some black faces high up the ladder.
But they didn't want smart or opinionated people so they just chose some morons that they could keep in line.

I would recommend learning a little about the history of both parties, there is a lot of interesting dirt on both sides that they are currently trying to sweep under the carpet, the democrates have to be politically correct, though, and that could be viewed as either a strength or a weakness, but the republicans are a bit less tactful when dealing with issues of race.

Are you one of the few people in this country who believes Colin Powell is incompetent? Just wondering. And I know quite a bit about the history of both parties. Perhaps you should re-read what went on in the '60s and perhaps realize that the leader of the fight against the Civil Rights Act, Strom Thurmond, was a Democrat at that time. Or maybe you should read up on the history of Democratic Senator Robert Byrd, a former KKK member.

[Quackzilla]

Are you one of the few people in this country who believes Colin Powell is incompetent? Just wondering. And I know quite a bit about the history of both parties. Perhaps you should re-read what went on in the '60s and perhaps realize that the leader of the fight against the Civil Rights Act, Strom Thurmond, was a Democrat at that time. Or maybe you should read up on the history of Democratic Senator Robert Byrd, a former KKK member.

A peice of shit Dixiecrat and a single former KKK member that registered as a Democrat?


Thats devastating, I better switch sides now.

[elprincipe]

Are you one of the few people in this country who believes Colin Powell is incompetent? Just wondering. And I know quite a bit about the history of both parties. Perhaps you should re-read what went on in the '60s and perhaps realize that the leader of the fight against the Civil Rights Act, Strom Thurmond, was a Democrat at that time. Or maybe you should read up on the history of Democratic Senator Robert Byrd, a former KKK member.

A peice of shit Dixiecrat and a single former KKK member that registered as a Democrat?

Thats devastating, I better switch sides now.

I see you completely fail to answer my points, unsurprisingly.

[Quackzilla]

Are you one of the few people in this country who believes Colin Powell is incompetent? Just wondering. And I know quite a bit about the history of both parties. Perhaps you should re-read what went on in the '60s and perhaps realize that the leader of the fight against the Civil Rights Act, Strom Thurmond, was a Democrat at that time. Or maybe you should read up on the history of Democratic Senator Robert Byrd, a former KKK member.

A peice of shit Dixiecrat and a single former KKK member that registered as a Democrat?

Thats devastating, I better switch sides now.

I see you completely fail to answer my points, unsurprisingly.

You didn't make any points except an insinuation that Democrats were against civil rights. So I replied with a sardonic remark because there were no VALID points to contest.

[elprincipe]

Are you one of the few people in this country who believes Colin Powell is incompetent? Just wondering. And I know quite a bit about the history of both parties. Perhaps you should re-read what went on in the '60s and perhaps realize that the leader of the fight against the Civil Rights Act, Strom Thurmond, was a Democrat at that time. Or maybe you should read up on the history of Democratic Senator Robert Byrd, a former KKK member.

A peice of shit Dixiecrat and a single former KKK member that registered as a Democrat?

Thats devastating, I better switch sides now.

I see you completely fail to answer my points, unsurprisingly.

You didn't make any points except an insinuation that Democrats were against civil rights. So I replied with a sardonic remark because there were no VALID points to contest.

I mentioned a couple of prominent Democrats who were anti-Civil Rights in response to your baseless comment that all Republicans are racists. And you completely failed to respond to my Colin Powell remark, which I guess isn't too surprising from someone who thinks that no competent black person can be a conservative.

[Ikohn4ever]

Keyes is against affirmative action, but that is the only reason he is running. He is going up against an intelligent black democrat, so Repubs had to find someone black and educated even if he is not the best person for the job.


Ohh yeah he blames abortions for the reason why god caused 9/11. Apparently the terrorists were messagers from god telling us to change our ways. Keyes sounds very smart indeed.

[Quackzilla]

Are you one of the few people in this country who believes Colin Powell is incompetent? Just wondering. And I know quite a bit about the history of both parties. Perhaps you should re-read what went on in the '60s and perhaps realize that the leader of the fight against the Civil Rights Act, Strom Thurmond, was a Democrat at that time. Or maybe you should read up on the history of Democratic Senator Robert Byrd, a former KKK member.

A peice of shit Dixiecrat and a single former KKK member that registered as a Democrat?

Thats devastating, I better switch sides now.

I see you completely fail to answer my points, unsurprisingly.

You didn't make any points except an insinuation that Democrats were against civil rights. So I replied with a sardonic remark because there were no VALID points to contest.

I mentioned a couple of prominent Democrats who were anti-Civil Rights in response to your baseless comment that all Republicans are racists. And you completely failed to respond to my Colin Powell remark, which I guess isn't too surprising from someone who thinks that no competent black person can be a conservative.

Strom Thurmond was not really a democrat and Robert Byrd is not exactly 'prominent'.

[Sarang01]

Here's how I see it. Let's be honest here. I've heard it said MOST of the people who were for segregation ended up becoming Republican based upon how their party acted. Just thought that tidbit was interesting.
Speaking of incompetant Republicans though how about Clarence Thomas. "There's ...... hairs in my cup!". I do a great impression of the pervert but the Republicans were desperate to push him through because of his conservative stance.
Now Colin Powell I can respect somewhat and feel sorry for if what I heard about the UN meeting was true. I pity him being forced to lie about something he didn't want to.
However in terms of Black men who are smart and really talk some sense, I'd say Tavis Smiley is that. Honestly I was watching BET one night and caught his show, thinking the Entertainment network would have pulp for a news show and I was quite impressed by him.

[Admiral Ackbar]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040814/ap_on_el_se/illinois_senate_1

Check it out. Words just fail me.

Also I honestly don't understand how Republicans think they'll hurt Obama's stance in the Democratic Party by unleashing a Black opponent whose views expoused are less than desirable to the American people, or at least to me for this circumstance.

It's funny how this thread has been all over but hasn't really covered the point of discussion in the topic.

There are some very VERY good arguments that allowing senators to be popularly elected was damaging to the union. That it eliminates state participation in the federal government. There's a reason we don't popularly elect Supreme Court Justices.

But it's fairly obvious that the majority of the populace would be against any change. Even though a large majority probably have no clue that there was a time in the United States where Senators were elected by state legislatures.

Personally, I think it's somewhat silly though to discuss this in current politics. Time moves on and anypone who seriously promotes going back to a sysem from over a hundred years ago is living in the past and not grounded in political realism.

[elprincipe]

Are you one of the few people in this country who believes Colin Powell is incompetent? Just wondering. And I know quite a bit about the history of both parties. Perhaps you should re-read what went on in the '60s and perhaps realize that the leader of the fight against the Civil Rights Act, Strom Thurmond, was a Democrat at that time. Or maybe you should read up on the history of Democratic Senator Robert Byrd, a former KKK member.

A peice of shit Dixiecrat and a single former KKK member that registered as a Democrat?

Thats devastating, I better switch sides now.

I see you completely fail to answer my points, unsurprisingly.

You didn't make any points except an insinuation that Democrats were against civil rights. So I replied with a sardonic remark because there were no VALID points to contest.

I mentioned a couple of prominent Democrats who were anti-Civil Rights in response to your baseless comment that all Republicans are racists. And you completely failed to respond to my Colin Powell remark, which I guess isn't too surprising from someone who thinks that no competent black person can be a conservative.

Strom Thurmond was not really a democrat and Robert Byrd is not exactly 'prominent'.

Yes he was and yes he is, as the longest-serving Democrat in the U.S. Senate and longtime chairman of the powerful Appropriations Committee.

[Quackzilla]

Are you one of the few people in this country who believes Colin Powell is incompetent? Just wondering. And I know quite a bit about the history of both parties. Perhaps you should re-read what went on in the '60s and perhaps realize that the leader of the fight against the Civil Rights Act, Strom Thurmond, was a Democrat at that time. Or maybe you should read up on the history of Democratic Senator Robert Byrd, a former KKK member.

A peice of shit Dixiecrat and a single former KKK member that registered as a Democrat?

Thats devastating, I better switch sides now.

I see you completely fail to answer my points, unsurprisingly.

You didn't make any points except an insinuation that Democrats were against civil rights. So I replied with a sardonic remark because there were no VALID points to contest.

I mentioned a couple of prominent Democrats who were anti-Civil Rights in response to your baseless comment that all Republicans are racists. And you completely failed to respond to my Colin Powell remark, which I guess isn't too surprising from someone who thinks that no competent black person can be a conservative.

Strom Thurmond was not really a democrat and Robert Byrd is not exactly 'prominent'.

Yes he was and yes he is, as the longest-serving Democrat in the U.S. Senate and longtime chairman of the powerful Appropriations Committee.

Strom Thurmand was a 'dixiecrat', or a southern racist flying a democrat flag.

Robert Byrd may have lingered a long time but he generally has no respect within the democratic party.

A 7x quote, thats gotta be a record.

[elprincipe]

Are you one of the few people in this country who believes Colin Powell is incompetent? Just wondering. And I know quite a bit about the history of both parties. Perhaps you should re-read what went on in the '60s and perhaps realize that the leader of the fight against the Civil Rights Act, Strom Thurmond, was a Democrat at that time. Or maybe you should read up on the history of Democratic Senator Robert Byrd, a former KKK member.

A peice of shit Dixiecrat and a single former KKK member that registered as a Democrat?

Thats devastating, I better switch sides now.

I see you completely fail to answer my points, unsurprisingly.

You didn't make any points except an insinuation that Democrats were against civil rights. So I replied with a sardonic remark because there were no VALID points to contest.

I mentioned a couple of prominent Democrats who were anti-Civil Rights in response to your baseless comment that all Republicans are racists. And you completely failed to respond to my Colin Powell remark, which I guess isn't too surprising from someone who thinks that no competent black person can be a conservative.

Strom Thurmond was not really a democrat and Robert Byrd is not exactly 'prominent'.

Yes he was and yes he is, as the longest-serving Democrat in the U.S. Senate and longtime chairman of the powerful Appropriations Committee.

Strom Thurmand was a 'dixiecrat', or a southern racist flying a democrat flag.

Robert Byrd may have lingered a long time but he generally has no respect within the democratic party.

A 7x quote, thats gotta be a record.

:lol: Yeah, I think that is a record for CAG! I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, although you never did answer about Colin Powell.

[Quackzilla]

Are you one of the few people in this country who believes Colin Powell is incompetent? Just wondering. And I know quite a bit about the history of both parties. Perhaps you should re-read what went on in the '60s and perhaps realize that the leader of the fight against the Civil Rights Act, Strom Thurmond, was a Democrat at that time. Or maybe you should read up on the history of Democratic Senator Robert Byrd, a former KKK member.

A peice of shit Dixiecrat and a single former KKK member that registered as a Democrat?

Thats devastating, I better switch sides now.

I see you completely fail to answer my points, unsurprisingly.

You didn't make any points except an insinuation that Democrats were against civil rights. So I replied with a sardonic remark because there were no VALID points to contest.

I mentioned a couple of prominent Democrats who were anti-Civil Rights in response to your baseless comment that all Republicans are racists. And you completely failed to respond to my Colin Powell remark, which I guess isn't too surprising from someone who thinks that no competent black person can be a conservative.

Strom Thurmond was not really a democrat and Robert Byrd is not exactly 'prominent'.

Yes he was and yes he is, as the longest-serving Democrat in the U.S. Senate and longtime chairman of the powerful Appropriations Committee.

Strom Thurmand was a 'dixiecrat', or a southern racist flying a democrat flag.

Robert Byrd may have lingered a long time but he generally has no respect within the democratic party.

A 7x quote, thats gotta be a record.

:lol: Yeah, I think that is a record for CAG! I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, although you never did answer about Colin Powell.

Yes, agree to disagree.

9x quote. 1337