Resident Evil 5, N'Gai Croal and the ugly reaction

[doc_zaius]

N'Gai Croal was interviewed for a really well reasoned and considered piece on Resident Evil 5, it's context and the reaction it is bound to encounter in regards to race relations.


I originally saw it posted on Kotaku, I read the post and then I read the original piece. I thought Croal had a lot of really good things to say about the subject and it made me think about the difference between American Cultural history and how it relates to development in another country (Japan) where they are not PERSONALLY aware of that history's impact.


Then I read the reaction on Kotaku......



and it depressed the hell out of me, lots of ignorance, defensiveness and immaturity....it made me wonder if gamers in the majority can really be so unreasoning and ridiculous.


I encourage you to take a look at Croal's original interview

http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008/04/10/newsweeks-ngai-croal-on-the-resident-evil-5-trailer-this-imagery-has-a-history/



and the Kotaku response and see what you think.

http://kotaku.com/378535/clearly-no-one-black-worked-on-this-game

[eswat]

Then I read the reaction on Kotaku......



and it depressed the hell out of me, lots of ignorance, defensiveness and immaturity....it made me wonder if gamers in the majority can really be so unreasoning and ridiculous.Nah, just gamers in Kotaku's little corner of the web.

[Short Round]

I really like N'Gai, and I usually respect his views and opinions, but this is just preposterous. Just because you're shooting Africans in a game, doesn't make it racist.

[ananag112]

I don't know. I really can't see how Capcom is being racist. If some zombie virus was spread in a small african village, wouldn't that mean that there would be zombie african people? I guess there is something N’Gai sees that I do not. If this game took place in India and Chris was killing Indian people, I would have no problem as long as it was done such that it made sense and not just for the hell of killing Indian people (I am Indian btw).

[doc_zaius]

He's NOT saying it's racist. Read the article.

[Short Round]

He's NOT saying it's racist. Read the article.


Yeah, but he's still saying that it's "racially insensitive", and even worse, he blames the common gamer for not being outraged about it.

[bardockkun]

Does it matter? You can be black, white, Asian or Spaniard and I won't care. If you're a zombie or infected with a zombie like virus, I'm totally murdering your fuckin ass.

[VanillaGorilla]

"There was a lot of imagery in that trailer that dovetailed with classic racist imagery"

I didn't see Chris Redfield spraying black zombies with a giant firehose in that trailer.

[Mex25]

Just finished reading the article and its funny because that was the last thing I thought when watching the videos. I can kind of see where N'Gai is basing his opinion on but how is this game, "racially insensitive" just because it takes place in an african american location??? Its not like the game is portraying them with fried chicken and watermelon in their hands. If anything it sounds like N'Gai is basically just playing the race card even though there's no sign of any racism in the game.

[mykevermin]

http://www.blackprof.com/?p=2018

There are no more racially charged images that are based on classic dehumanizing notions of ethnicity in this day and age.

Nope. No siree.

I'm obviously not serious about that.

[VanillaGorilla]

http://www.blackprof.com/?p=2018

There are no more racially charged images that are based on classic dehumanizing notions of ethnicity in this day and age.

Nope. No siree.

I'm obviously not serious about that.What does this have to do with Resident Evil 5? Zombie LeBron James? That would be sick.

[mykevermin]

The point I'm trying to make is that the Vogue cover, viewed by itself, may not be construed as racist or having an origin in racist imagery. Coupled with the other picture, however, the similarities are *far* too stark to be mere coincidence, no?

The point, then, becomes that "I don't see any racism in it" isn't really a suitable way of denying the existence of something as being or not being racist.

That's all.

[Don Chubo]

http://www.blackprof.com/?p=2018

There are no more racially charged images that are based on classic dehumanizing notions of ethnicity in this day and age.

Nope. No siree.

I'm obviously not serious about that.

A race-hustler article. Yeah, that's what this topic needs. :roll:

[Poor2More]

^good point

[terribledeli]

I didn't see Chris Redfield spraying black zombies with a giant firehose in that trailer.

The unlimited pressure water hose is only available after finishing the game under 2.5 hours with an S rank.

[rabbitt]

His argument here is pretty weak. It's almost like he's fighting for black zombie rights.

They’re hidden in shadows, you can barely see their eyes, and the perspective of the trailer is not even someone who’s coming to help the people. It’s like they’re all dangerous; they all need to be killed. It’s not even like one cute African — or Haitian or Caribbean — child could be saved. They’re all dangerous men, women and children. They all have to be killed.

[tokitoki50]

I won't try and deny that there isn't still institutional racism in society today. That'd be really ridiculous. However, I failed to see how that trailer is made to portray ordinary people of African descent in a poor light. What I do see is a run down, impoverished community that is in some third world country who have been afflicted by a virus that makes them have an extreme bloodlust for those who are uninfected.

[Short Round]

Originally Posted by N'Gai Croal
They’re hidden in shadows, you can barely see their eyes, and the perspective of the trailer is not even someone who’s coming to help the people. It’s like they’re all dangerous; they all need to be killed. It’s not even like one cute African — or Haitian or Caribbean — child could be saved. They’re all dangerous men, women and children. They all have to be killed.

Of course they all have to be killed; they're fucking zombies.

[Grave_Addiction]

I've enjoyed some of his work in the past, but he's being just so damn ridiculous.

[insertcleverthing]

I think you guys are missing the point. What N'Gai is saying is that obviously no one on the Japanese team understood the historical back story that might make their game appear racially insensitive (this is the same culture that thought PoPo was a reasonable character in Dragon Ball Z afterall). What bothers him is that gamers in this country don't see the overt dehumanization of the black victims in the trailer. They aren't infected when Redfield first arrived, yet they are still viewed negatively. When I watched the trailer I sort of reasoned that it must be the same as the Spanish townsfolk in Resident Evil 4 wherein they were all brainwashed and/or infected by a lesser infection of some kind by their village leader - or something along those lines. If a story like that isn't present in the game at the beginning, then there should be reason to worry about racial insensitivity. I'll reserve judgment until I actually play the game.

[Chacrana]

Yeah yeah, racial insensitivity and all that. I don't care. I'm more interested in playing RE5 than upholding a "moral standard" by bitching about it.

[Grave_Addiction]

I think you guys are missing the point. What N'Gai is saying is that obviously no one on the Japanese team understood the historical back story that might make their game appear racially insensitive (this is the same culture that thought PoPo was a reasonable character in Dragon Ball Z afterall). What bothers him is that gamers in this country don't see the overt dehumanization of the black victims in the trailer. They aren't infected when Redfield first arrived, yet they are still viewed negatively. When I watched the trailer I sort of reasoned that it must be the same as the Spanish townsfolk in Resident Evil 4 wherein they were all brainwashed and/or infected by a lesser infection of some kind by their village leader - or something along those lines. If a story like that isn't present in the game at the beginning, then there should be reason to worry about racial insensitivity. I'll reserve judgment until I actually play the game.

People need to realize that this is a HORROR game. Having a bunch of cute kids running around kicking a soccer ball and laughing would kill the kind of suspenseful mood Capcom is trying to create in the game.

Explain to me this - what zombie-related movie or video game have you ever seen that doesn't dehumanize any of its victims no matter what their race, creed or culture is? That's the entire point of the zombie game - it dehumanizes people!

I'd be interested to see if this game were to star a black man killing a bunch of rednecks in Tennessee if N'Gai would be saying the same kinds of things. I highly doubt it.

[jkam]

Here is my take on racism...there are fucking douchebags on this planet and there are really cool people on this planet. I prefer to hate the douchebags and hang with the cool people. I have friends of just about every race. So if I'm racist its against douchebags. Looking for hidden meanings in a video game just seems like a bunch of horse shit. As for the "imagery" do we have to go through every World War II based game and look at the history there? There is history everywhere...the key is to not to let it repeat itself.

[camoor]

The music that they’re using in the trailer is very reminiscent of the music used in Black Hawk Down which was set in Africa — Somalia. That actually was one of the things that was most disturbing because it sort of had a feeling as like, “Wow, what research did this team do? Did they only watch Black Hawk Down and give it this kind of vibe?”

I thought the trailer was partially evoking Black Hawk Down as well.

Anyway, I sure hope Capcom did lots of historical research for this game. The last thing I'd want is for them to do is to use their imagination in a game about superhuman secret agents using futuristic weapons to single handedly fight off wave after wave of highly aggressive zombie hordes.

[insertcleverthing]

People need to realize that this is a HORROR game. Having a bunch of cute kids running around kicking a soccer ball and laughing would kill the kind of suspenseful mood Capcom is trying to create in the game.

Explain to me this - what zombie-related movie or video game have you ever seen that doesn't dehumanize any of its victims no matter what their race, creed or culture is? That's the entire point of the zombie game - it dehumanizes people!

I'd be interested to see if this game were to star a black man killing a bunch of rednecks in Tennessee if N'Gai would be saying the same kinds of things. I highly doubt it.
True.

-Which is why I'm reserving judgment until I play the game. I doubt Capcom would make the inhabitants so negatively portrayed at the beginning on purpose unless there was a reason, like the aformentioned they are brainwashed/already infected motif. That explanation would work and put the racial stuff to rest (for me at least).

[lunatic_pandora]

Does it matter? You can be black, white, Asian or Spaniard and I won't care. If you're a zombie or infected with a zombie like virus, I'm totally murdering your fuckin ass.

Thank you, I agree completely.

I've never heard of this guy, but he seems like an idiot. I know that this has been said and will continue to be said, but it's a fucking game. It's set in Africa. It's not like you're running through some town killing black people because they're black.

You are in Africa.
There are a lot of black people in Africa.
Therefore, if a zombie virus escapes in Africa, what ethnicity do you think that you would be killing most?

Black people.

[camoor]

People need to realize that this is a HORROR game. Having a bunch of cute kids running around kicking a soccer ball and laughing would kill the kind of suspenseful mood Capcom is trying to create in the game.

It's pretty interesting because one of the first big zombie movies, "Night of the Living Dead" handled race and social commentary so effectively.

But Res Evil has always been more about b-movie scares then any message (I mean - save the president's daughter? Again? Seriously?

[camoor]

Does it matter? You can be black, white, Asian or Spaniard and I won't care. If you're a zombie or infected with a zombie like virus, I'm totally murdering your fuckin ass.

Anti-Zombiest!!

[RelentlessRolento]

i havent read it and already know that n'gai isn't saying it's racist, it's just a very touchy thing that capcom jumped fully into.

[doc_zaius]

so far it seems like 80% of the posters in here have missed the point so far.

but I'm encouraged by some of the posts, better ratio than Kotaku so far.

[doc_zaius]

The point I'm trying to make is that the Vogue cover, viewed by itself, may not be construed as racist or having an origin in racist imagery. Coupled with the other picture, however, the similarities are *far* too stark to be mere coincidence, no?

The point, then, becomes that "I don't see any racism in it" isn't really a suitable way of denying the existence of something as being or not being racist.

That's all.

nicely put, it's amazing how many similar the situation is. and the reaction.
http://www.antiquetrader.com/mark/content/binary/KingKong.jpg



and for the record, King Kong is my hero.

[TC]

Capcom should just make it so you can adjust the color of the zombie skin. Kill any color zombies you want then.

[Fuzi0n]

Zombies are fucking zombies, no matter the color. They just need to be killed.

[VanillaGorilla]

The point I'm trying to make is that the Vogue cover, viewed by itself, may not be construed as racist or having an origin in racist imagery. Coupled with the other picture, however, the similarities are *far* too stark to be mere coincidence, no?

The point, then, becomes that "I don't see any racism in it" isn't really a suitable way of denying the existence of something as being or not being racist.

That's all.I guess I never saw the RE5 trailer in which all this racist iconography was being tossed around. I just think it's pretty telling that, for as long as games have been around, there really hasn't been a game set in an African environment, that features, in a prominent role, people of that heritage. And yet, there have been TONS of games in which Asians were the bad guys, Germans, Russians, Arabs, etc, and it was never as much of a racial factor, at least not in the US, as it is right now. I know I am going to come off sounding like a huge douchebag here, but doesn't it seem like African Americans pull the race card quicker than any other minority group?

[doc_zaius]

I guess I never saw the RE5 trailer in which all this racist iconography was being tossed around. I just think it's pretty telling that, for as long as games have been around, there really hasn't been a game set in an African environment, that features, in a prominent role, people of that heritage. And yet, there have been TONS of games in which Asians were the bad guys, Germans, Russians, Arabs, etc, and it was never as much of a racial factor, at least not in the US, as it is right now. I know I am going to come off sounding like a huge douchebag here, but doesn't it seem like African Americans pull the race card quicker than any other minority group?



you're right, that's pretty douchebag-ish. those black folks always pulling that race card, why can't they get over it already?!

[VanillaGorilla]

you're right, that's pretty douchebag-ish. those black folks always pulling that race card, why can't they get over it already?!Typical response I expected to get. I'm not saying they should get over anything. I am just saying that it seems like it took no time at all for someone to see "Game in Africa + killing villagers = automatic racism!" I suppose they are going with the "This game represents these people as evil, mysterious savages!" angle. Well, that's pretty much what every RE games has depicted it's zombie/villager enemies as.

And N'Gai is so full of shit. "I'm not saying it's racist, but..." Gimme a break. Either come out and admit it or don't, stop trying to skirt around it and try to play both sides.

[Grave_Addiction]

Typical response I expected to get. I'm not saying they should get over anything. I am just saying that it seems like it took no time at all for someone to see "Game in Africa + killing villagers = automatic racism!" I suppose they are going with the "This game represents these people as evil, mysterious savages!" angle. Well, that's pretty much what every RE games has depicted it's zombie/villager enemies as.

And N'Gai is so full of shit. "I'm not saying it's racist, but..." Gimme a break. Either come out and admit it or don't, stop trying to skirt around it and try to play both sides.

I think it's about time African Americans did. The truth of the matter is there are no African Americans living today who have ever been enslaved for a single day like their ancestors were in the past.

There are countless other races who have experienced much worse crimes against them (American Indians, Jews, etc.), and you don't hear them making ridiculous claims of racism any time they're race is involved in any sort of potentially questionable material.

Our society is never going to get over the white vs. black issue until we stop blowing everything out of proportion.

[insertcleverthing]

I think it's about time African Americans did. The truth of the matter is there are no African Americans living today who have ever been enslaved for a single day like their ancestors were in the past.

There are countless other races who have experienced much worse crimes against them (American Indians, Jews, etc.), and you don't hear them making ridiculous claims of racism any time they're race is involved in any sort of potentially questionable material.

Our society is never going to get over the white vs. black issue until we stop blowing everything out of proportion.
Wow. -Just wow.

I hope you reread that post and realize the implications/tone...

[zewone]

I think it's about time African Americans did. The truth of the matter is there are no African Americans living today who have ever been enslaved for a single day like their ancestors were in the past.

There are countless other races who have experienced much worse crimes against them (American Indians, Jews, etc.), and you don't hear them making ridiculous claims of racism any time they're race is involved in any sort of potentially questionable material.

Our society is never going to get over the white vs. black issue until we stop blowing everything out of proportion.

...

[Grave_Addiction]

Wow. -Just wow.

I hope you reread that post and realize the implications/tone...

I didn't mean it to offend anyone. I just think, in general, we need to move past the wrongs of the past before we can truly become one nation.

[akilshohen]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned, is why are all the villagers dark skinned? There is such thing as a light skinned African. Just a though.....

[Radioactive_Man]

this racist bullshit better not delay the fuking game. That's all I care about. No matter what people are going to get up tight about anything. That's the day and age we live in. Oh lord I'm offended so it's either time to pull

A. Race card
or
B. Sue the company for some bullshit reason

[lokizz]

ngai is right in a way. im still on board for a zombie game in africa but aside from that one african being attacked by other africans all the africans look zombified and or dangerous. not to say the spanish folk in re4 didnt all look great but there is a difference. but long story short it is just a trailer and whose to say what will come up later. its cool to finally read something from someone that isnt your usual bash all games bs. the guy has his reservations but hes still go an open mind a rarity to find in this day and age. i do hope theres more to the story then whats in the trailer and that they mix up the people types more since africa has a wide assortment of types and looks and shades of black folk.


thats always been a problem ive had with resident evil games they need more variety in enemy types. its kind of annoying killng the same 2 or 3 zombies over and over.

[lokizz]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned, is why are all the villagers dark skinned? There is such thing as a light skinned African. Just a though.....


yeah like blacks in america there are diff skin tones in africa as well. like i said in my post that is something i hope they correct.

[Grave_Addiction]

yeah like blacks in america there are diff skin tones in africa as well. like i said in my post that is something i hope they correct.

Who the hell cares what shade of black they are? All I'll care about in the game is that they're fuckin' zombies trying to kill me and my roundhouse kick knows no prejudice!

[lokizz]

Who the hell cares what shade of black they are? All I'll care about in the game is that they're fuckin' zombies trying to kill me and my roundhouse kick knows no prejudice!


if you dont get it you never will and i wouldnt waste my time trying to help you understand. he asked a question i awnsered it if you dont care then why post a reply to a response to someone elses question that doesnt concern you ?

[Blitz]

Well game after game we killed whitey and there was no problem. We killed Spaniards, no problem. Now we go to Africa and the racism starts.

Maybe just maybe instead of worrying about a video game he should be out in the REAL world trying to stop black men from killing other black men at alarming rates.

[Grave_Addiction]

sigh...now every other person is attempting badass posts instead of cheapass posts

Do you care to elaborate on just what the hell that's supposed to mean?

[usickenme]

I think the criticism is very misplaced. I mean the two points seem to be

1. the imagery has history
2. That imagery could cause problems for the game outside the gaming world.

Well no shit N'gai. You've pretty much pegged most fucking games out there. I am not sure why a game in a "black" village requires a dissertation by the developer explaining "I know it looks like that but it really means this" moreso than any other game.

To me, an impoverish black village is an "image" that is not racist. N'gai is bringing a ton of his personal bias into the discussion. If that setting (pre-zombie) generates fear in a gamer, the gamer has the problem. That's not to say an image can't be racist but not every image of a black person is.

[jollydwarf]

I'm not going to dive into this impossible issue, but instead just say that if this game doesn't get every talking head all righteous when it comes out, then clearly, it's a Rockstar-witch hunt world we live in. The announcement trailer alone should've incited mindless protesting, given that people went to arms over a game about a white kid in a boarding school that they knew nothing about. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm6An_SPGQw) Maybe it's the whole plane-ticket-to-Japan thing....

I'll also add that the knee-jerk defensive and defiant reaction from gamers here and elsewhere about this issue is sadly predictable. N'Gai deserves a little bit more thought in the average response, I think.

[Nephlabobo]

As far as this issue goes, it boils down to a couple of things.

N'Gai Croal is stirring up contreversy where there is none, to get some media exposure for himself.

That, in and of itself, is bad enough.

Then you have all the gaming blogs - Joystiq, Kotaku and 1up - editing specific portions of the interview to be sensationalistic and elicit an emotional response.

I checked 1up, Kotaku, Joystiq, Gamespot, Magicbox, Gamespy and IGN today, as well as two horror news sites who also cover gaming - DreadCentral and BloodyDisgusting, and Kotaku, 1up and Joystiq were the only ones to go with a story about this.

What they did was take portions of the interview, out of context, and use it to sensationalise the issue to generate hits on their websites.

Joystiq was the least offensive of the three, with 1up hamfistedly tying the interview with the RE5 producer to N'Gai's comments in such a ridiculous way that it looked like a high schooler wrote it.

Kotaku actually had the balls to chew their commenters out after only printing parts of the article, including the same sensationalist headline that Joystiq used.

Gamespot had a link to an article about the issue when it was raised the first time, in the interview they printed with the RE5 producer, but nothing more.

So Joystiq, Kotaku and 1up are the worst offenders, along with N'Gai.

I noticed that my comment privleges were shut down on Kotaku after I said the above in the Kotaku forums, so apparantly criticism is subject to censorship on that site.

If these people want to be taken seriously as journalists, because that's what they refer to themselves as - game journalists, then I'm starting to think they should be subject to the same kinds of rules and regulations as regular news media in some regards.

The kind of crap that 1up, Joystiq and Kotaku pulled today was *worse* than anything Fox news has ever done.

I'm going to have to start rethinking where I get my gaming news from.

[camoor]

Can you think of a non-kiddy blockbuster videogame that didn't feature a hostile environment? I'm talking action games, not the "Sims", Rock Band or Phoenix Wright.

GTA 3, Gun, Res Evil 1-4, Yakuza -- all are just chock full of people of a specific race from a specific geographical area who are just out to kill you.

Jesus I was playing "Call of Duty" and the first scene is a crazed Russian soldier screaming "Shoot the German, shoot the German, your mother is crying for you to kill the German!!" I'd love for someone to compare the ratio of German heroes to German villains in videogames - I'd bet big that it's not even close. Yet I think we're all mature enough to know that all of the real German soldiers in WW2 were not evil automatons and moral judgment can't be meted out in such black and white terms. (The current Pope was part of the Hitler youth, wrap your head around that...)

People lament the fact that videogames aren't set in Africa but if blockbuster videogame environments are any guide it's no big honor. Res Evil 5 is just further proof of this. Besides, it's also simply not true. Where do you think all those Egyptian games are set (Protip: Egypt is not part of the Eurasian continent). Likewise I've played at least a few games with levels set in modern Africa (Hitman games, Civilization for example)

[camoor]

BTW 50 Cents new game will have him going to the Middle East to shoot everything up for, of all things, a diamond-encrusted skull. So I guess that's OK, but poor villagers taken over by a zombie parasite in Africa is over the line. Makes sense :roll:

[insertcleverthing]

For like the fiftieth time - it isn't the setting of Africa or fact that the antagonists are black alone that is causing the racist debate. Otherwise, any gang-banger game would be getting the same treatment.

It's the iconography and negative view toward the villagers (pre-infection - though that isn't proven) in the beginning of the trailer that is making certain people like N'Gai take a second look. Jesus Christ. If you guys read the freaking article, that was pretty obvious. You're all attacking straw men.

[Rei no Otaku]

For like the fiftieth time - it isn't the setting of Africa or fact that the antagonists are black alone that is causing the racist debate. Otherwise, any gang-banger game would be getting the same treatment.

It's the iconography and negative view toward the villagers (pre-infection - though that isn't proven) in the beginning of the trailer that is making certain people like N'Gai take a second look. Jesus Christ. If you guys read the freaking article, that was pretty obvious. You're all attacking straw men.
It's a horror game. Of course the trailer is going to start with a sense of unease and a negative attitude.

[akilshohen]

I put the 50 cent game in licensed territory. Could that game really get any attention if it wasn't for the license?

[Chacrana]

Honestly, I don't know what people want at this point. Would it be better if they just panned through an African village with kids playing and had the main character muse about how he respects the African-American (gotta use the longest term possible to be accepting) race and culture?

[camoor]

Honestly, I don't know what people want at this point. Would it be better if they just panned through an African village with kids playing and had the main character muse about how he respects the African-American (gotta use the longest term possible to be accepting) race and culture?

Hopefully they have time to make a mod where the zombies attack Chris with uplifting singing, hugs, and bouquets of Hibiscus flowers.

[Chacrana]

aint it kinda racist to say that a game is racist because blacks are being killed?

No.

[heavyd853]

It is racist ,however, to assume that nobody that worked on the game was of African descent (and by extension, that anyone who was of African descent and worked on such a game would find such images racist and would inform Capcom).

[Blackout]

I just can't wait to play the game.

[coolsteel]

Honestly, I don't know what people want at this point. Would it be better if they just panned through an African village with kids playing and had the main character muse about how he respects the African-American (gotta use the longest term possible to be accepting) race and culture?

Followed by 5-8 hours of butchering them? Yes

[Ikohn4ever]

people really need to stop bringing up Jews/Holocaust. Everytime someone wants to make a point they will bring up Nazi Germany as their example. Really just annoys me. Really there are no comparisons with genocides even though there are similarities it just feels to me its in bad taste.

On to N'Gai, he is really jumping the gun being as he has played a total of 0 minutes. I can see where he is coming from, but he is being prejudice when it comes to RE5. Prejudging the game before it is even complete.

[insertcleverthing]

people really need to stop bringing up Jews/Holocaust. Everytime someone wants to make a point they will bring up Nazi Germany as their example. Really just annoys me. Really there are no comparisons with genocides even though there are similarities it just feels to me its in bad taste.
Welcome to Godwin's Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law).

[homeland]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned, is why are all the villagers dark skinned? There is such thing as a light skinned African. Just a though.....


Well I'm sure the dark skin is indicative of where the story takes place. People that live in the northern parts of africa magrhab have a lighter skin then those from central africa like people from Chad, Congo, Somalia etc. Just like Southern Spaniards and Italians have a darker skin then their fellow countrymen of the north.


and on the whole racism comments. (I haven't read the whole thread) Its just poppycock. I could give some validity to his comments if the game was made by rockstar or bungie but it was made in Japan. Since when is americans insecurities about racism pushed upon other societies?

[jkam]

It's the iconography and negative view toward the villagers (pre-infection - though that isn't proven) in the beginning of the trailer that is making certain people like N'Gai take a second look. Jesus Christ. If you guys read the freaking article, that was pretty obvious. You're all attacking straw men.

Hmmm...yep iconography for setting up a Horror zombie game. Let's see RE1-4 were horror zombie games...that alone should debunk the whole "negative view" idea. I guess maybe the villagers should run up to Chris and give him flowers and candy with smiles? I don't know about you but if I saw some dude in my village with guns a-blazing dressed like him I'd probably give him evil eye dirty looks too. It's all about setting up for what's to come. Setting the mood. We'll probably find out later in the game that these people aren't even human or some shit.

The other funny thing is your everyday average video gamer (of every race) who doesn't read video game sites will probably just pick up the game and take it for what it is...a video game where you shoot zombies.

[level1online]

I was sooooo offended by the over-the-top racism in Lost Planet! C'mon! Those poor defenseless Akrid!!!! I mean, is Capcom even aware of the history of the Intergalactic Bugsian-American Race? Didn't they watch Starship Troopers???? Play Starcraft??? Call Johnnie Cockroach! Stop the Olympic torch now! Delay the Game! AO Rating!

[hostyl1]

I think it's about time African Americans did. The truth of the matter is there are no African Americans living today who have ever been enslaved for a single day like their ancestors were in the past.

But there are *many* blacks living today who couldnt eat in certain restaruants, couldnt pee in certain bathrooms, couldnt attend certain schools, couldnt legally married certain people ( e.g. misenegation), were beaten, had dogs sic'ed on them, were pelted with fire hoses, etc., including many people of my parents generation. Hell, the area I live in now, just about 40 years ago was still mostly segregated (ever see 'Remember the Titans'?). There is a still a legacy of racisim in this country.

That aside, I personally didnt see much racisim in this trailer (and yes, I'm black). Similarly, I saw nothing wrong with the LeBron 'Vogue' cover. But my problem is not with N'Gai's 'racisim' claim but his premise that Capcom needed to have 'cultral advice' for this trailer.

Specifically, as is shown by the comments to the thread, the overwhelming majority of people who viewed the trailed had no such baggage of 'racisim' with them. The audience that Capcom basically showed the trailer to, needed no such 'cultural tweaking'. The audience understood the context of the videogame, and thus were not predisposed to the see the trailer as 'racist'.

I think Mr. Croal underestimates Capcom in knowing who the audience is. Quite frankly, people of my parents and grandparents generation, more specifically Blacks in America of this age, who were more directly affected by the institutional racisim in America ARENT WATCHING E3 TRAILERS. Thus, for the most part, the whole arguement is moot. Those most likely to be 'offended', arent going to see it anyway. Hence, no need to consult a 'black' for the trailer.

Now if this was a Super Bowl Commercial, maybe we'd have an argument. 8-)

[elwood731]

There are countless other races who have experienced much worse crimes against them (American Indians, Jews, etc.), and you don't hear them making ridiculous claims of racism any time they're race is involved in any sort of potentially questionable material.

Honestly, while you may have a point to make, it is derailed by comments such as this. You should really go read some history books. I think your understanding of the history of Africa is sorely lacking.

[CoffeeEdge]

Total load of shit (and yes, I did read the article). He's struggling to make the game out to be "racially insensitive."

[Greetard]

N'Gai may, may, have a point regarding the race issue (I'm as of yet undecided), but his comparisons to the Holocaust are absolutely ridiculous. That argument is central to setting. In one, you're fighting villagers in (what we can assume is) their natural setting, while in the other you'd be fighting the imprisoned victims of a continent-wide genocide. Big difference. If N'Gai had argued that it'd be the same as killing zombie Jews in Israel it would have been an apt comparison, but then that would pretty much kill the argument he's trying to raise. N'Gai's statement is just as insensitive to race as the supposed material in the trailer.

As far as the question of why all of the zombies are dark-skinned, it is just a matter of what location in Africa the game is set in. My step-mother is an Ethiopian immigrant, and she claims that the northern area of her country is predominantly dark-skinned, while the southern area is light-skinned (a result of centuries of mixed relations with Greek, Jewish, Roman, British, and Egyptian invaders). I guess one could argue that these villagers are in a remote location- far from an area where such relations would likely occur.

[sfriedlander]

jack thompson is gonna be all over this game. Brace yourselves RE5 creators!

[rabbitt]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/stitched/kanye_west-1.jpg

[doc_zaius]

Well I'm sure the dark skin is indicative of where the story takes place. People that live in the northern parts of africa magrhab have a lighter skin then those from central africa like people from Chad, Congo, Somalia etc. Just like Southern Spaniards and Italians have a darker skin then their fellow countrymen of the north.


and on the whole racism comments. (I haven't read the whole thread) Its just poppycock. I could give some validity to his comments if the game was made by rockstar or bungie but it was made in Japan. Since when is americans insecurities about racism pushed upon other societies?



I think if you plan on marketing a game in America you should probably invest some effort into understandinghow it will be recieved there.


it reminds me of something that happened in one of my classes.

I was attending a school with a lot of international students from Europe and Asia. We were storyboarding a short film and one of my classmates had a film idea boarded out. His film started with a lot of happy people playing a laughing together and having fun in a park. Suddenly a giant foot comes from the sky and stamps on them. The camera pans up and we see a man in a KKK hood standing and laughing at the destruction.

Some of the class just stood there, stunned. (but many students from other countries didn't have much of a reaction.) This guy was from Norway and knew nothing about America's history, he thought the hooded character looked funny, like an evil clown and would be a good ending.

I felt bad for the guy, he had no idea of what was behind the imagery he was using.


I'm not trying to equate the two situations but when that happened it really struck me how different cultures can have some pretty drastic misunderstandings if they are not careful.

[lunatic_pandora]

They live in Africa, therefore they are African. Not African American. For those calling the villagers African American, stop trying to be so politically correct.

[homeland]

I think if you plan on marketing a game in America you should probably invest some effort into understandinghow it will be recieved there.


it reminds me of something that happened in one of my classes.

I was attending a school with a lot of international students from Europe and Asia. We were storyboarding a short film and one of my classmates had a film idea boarded out. His film started with a lot of happy people playing a laughing together and having fun in a park. Suddenly a giant foot comes from the sky and stamps on them. The camera pans up and we see a man in a KKK hood standing and laughing at the destruction.

Some of the class just stood there, stunned. (but many students from other countries didn't have much of a reaction.) This guy was from Norway and knew nothing about America's history, he thought the hooded character looked funny, like an evil clown and would be a good ending.

I felt bad for the guy, he had no idea of what was behind the imagery he was using.


I'm not trying to equate the two situations but when that happened it really struck me how different cultures can have some pretty drastic misunderstandings if they are not careful.

So should they release the original version of the game as they intended their story to be told to the rest of the world but for the american release change the zombies to another skin tone?

I just don't get how knee jerk our society is. Yes I know the past is horrible and its lingering effects are still relevent today but not everyone in the world is subject to Americans race issues. They have a cartoon in france called Kirikou. The main character is a little African boy that runs around naked saving his village Its a descent little cartoon, nothing degrading it just takes place in the past. But nothing like that would fly here as just a quick look could come off derogatory.

http://www.casafree.com/modules/xcgal/albums/userpics/10070/kirikou.jpg

[insertcleverthing]

ARGH! Quick - somebody shoot it in the face! It's a zombie!

By the way, the french are notoriously xenophobic...

[Grave_Addiction]

Child Prawn!!!!

[jkanownik]

I don't see why N'Gai is surprised. We do a poor job as a whole in conveying the true weight of history in public schools, so why would the racial struggles in our country be any different? You only need to spend 10 minutes in any public place in America to realize the lack of real struggles in last 25+ years has lead to a majority of people not appreciating the struggles that we had to go through to get where we are today.

On a positive note this thread made me think of the reperations skit from the Chapelle Show. I had visions of Black Zombies playing craps for a giant pile of brains. Then Thriller popped in my head and they started dancing. I need to go to bed....

[camoor]

Remember Turistas (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0454970/)?

Alot of similarities with this controversy.

I guess horror movies can only be set in industrialized countries such as Japan and USA.

[Thomas96]

So what's the problem with the game..... a white man is shooting some Zombies? and the Zombies are black.

Black people, (such as myself) have more to worry about, than some damn pretend zombies getting shot in a game. I played GTA Sanandreas, and I was a little offended by the game, due to all the streotypes, and cursing. (more than what was needed, more than what was in GTA Vice City) So I didn't play it. If you don't like it don't play it.

[CoffeeEdge]

Ugh. Seeing the fuss this one person is making about the game is making me cringe in horror at the thought of the inevitable shitstorm that's going to come when they start really publicly promoting the game as it get's closer to release. The news networks are going to have a field day. Like the Mass Effect sex fiasco, but a hundred times worse.

[Grave_Addiction]

Ugh. Seeing the fuss this one person is making about the game is making me cringe in horror at the thought of the inevitable shitstorm that's going to come when they start really publicly promoting the game as it get's closer to release. The news networks are going to have a field day. Like the Mass Effect sex fiasco, but a hundred times worse.

I hear ya. I'm still wondering why N'Gai's opinion on the matter is even newsworthy and why anyone should give two shits about it.

[insertcleverthing]

Maybe because he is a respected game industry critic?

I would hope anyone who follows the industry or visits the blogosphere (man, I hate that term) would at least know his name. he's been on the MTV gametrailers and G4 circuit and I believe he's visited the major networks (CNN, Fox, etc.) at least a few times though I could be wrong.

[Inf^Shini]

All I can say is...dude....

[rhymetimesfine]

...but I had a change of heart after I saw this inviting post:



By the way, the french are notoriously xenophobic...

But are the japanese really xenophobic? (http://archive.japantoday.com/jp/comment/808/all) And since this game (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpAHn3TUZrU) is targeting an audience outside of japan (and if you want to see videogames continue to evolve) shouldn't we want to engage in a dialogue about the common experience we're all going to share?

When I heard that Resident Evil/Bioshock 5 would take place in Africa, I figured it would be done to show off new lighting effects. The producer even says so in an article on gamespot (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6189123.html?tag=result;title;0). What makes me uncomfortable is that the very real contrast in skin tone has seperated Americans in the not-too-distant past. Denying the truth will not change it. It just makes it fester and then people rant.

When you play video games, especially single player affairs, you are immersing yourself in an experience the game creators want you to have. The world and it's denizens have been created for YOU. So if an experience makes you uncomfortable, sometimes the best thing to do is talk it out (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=xbox+live&page=2).:)

[insertcleverthing]

But are the japanese really xenophobic? (http://archive.japantoday.com/jp/comment/808/all)
As someone who has been to Japan and currently works under a Japanese boss who immigrated here (on an H1B Visa), I can say undoubtedly, without question - YES! Yes they are. -For the most part, as far as generalizations go, blah, blah, blah, etc.

I'm not really arguing the game is racist anyway. I only came in here to defend N'Gai and his rationale behind his comments since he's a smart guy with good opinions (from what little I know about him). Every other post has been like "OMG! The game is racist just becuz it has blakc zombees? How stoopid!!one!"

Yeah, that's not the freaking point he was making there people. Still isn't.

Like I've said before, I'm holding judgment until I play the game in which I case I pretty much expect the game design reasoning behind the iconography to be totally acceptable (i.e. they're all already infected/brainwashed).

[CoffeeEdge]

I'm not really arguing the game is racist anyway. I only came in here to defend N'Gai and his rationale behind his comments since he's a smart guy with good opinions (from what little I know about him). Every other post has been like "OMG! The game is racist just becuz it has blakc zombees? How stoopid!!one!"

Yeah, that's not the freaking point he was making there people. Still isn't.
But I still think his points suck.

[insertcleverthing]

That's fine. -Great even. You can think whatever you want so long as you aren't beating the dead horse made of straw.

[anotherpoorgamer]

So what's the problem with the game..... a white man is shooting some Zombies? and the Zombies are black.

Black people, (such as myself) have more to worry about, than some damn pretend zombies getting shot in a game. I played GTA Sanandreas, and I was a little offended by the game, due to all the streotypes, and cursing. (more than what was needed, more than what was in GTA Vice City) So I didn't play it. If you don't like it don't play it.

^That's how I see the game, just another game by capcom about zombies and suvival horror.

[Don Chubo]

Reading the original article and the comments, Croal is saying it's racist without actually saying "it's racist" and going to great pains to tell everyone he's not saying it's racist. Whatever, dude.

[elwood731]

Reading the original article and the comments, Croal is saying it's racist without actually saying "it's racist" and going to great pains to tell everyone he's not saying it's racist. Whatever, dude.

No, what he is saying is that it's culturally insensitive. There's a difference. He actually makes an extremely reasoned argument that obviously many here have not read, as he addresses many points raised in this thread within the interview.

[CoffeeEdge]

That's fine. -Great even. You can think whatever you want so long as you aren't beating the dead horse made of straw.

So you can believe what you want, as long as it is something that people haven't said before at length.

Huh.

[doc_zaius]

So you can believe what you want, as long as it is something that people haven't said before at length.

Huh.

For clarification


Straw Man Argument

A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw man argument" is to describe a position that superficially resembles an opponent's actual view but is easier to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent (for example, deliberately overstating the opponent's position).

A straw man argument can be a successful rhetorical technique (that is, it may succeed in persuading people) but it carries little or no real evidential weight, because the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted.




For example, saying N'Gai Croal is calling RE5 a racist game, and then claiming it isn't racist game, is a straw man argument.

[insertcleverthing]

So you can believe what you want, as long as it is something that people haven't said before at length.

Huh.
Yes, that is exactly what I meant.

[CoffeeEdge]

Yes, that is exactly what I meant.

Wow, I don't really know who you are, but you've been really annoying the past couple days. Bye.

[insertcleverthing]

Bye.

[Ikohn4ever]

this whole controversy is fail, I found an evil non-black person in the game

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/8381/re58vy1.jpg
glad to see this case is closed, now lets look at italian stereotypes in Nintendo games

[doc_zaius]

this whole controversy is fail, I found an evil non-black person in the game

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/8381/re58vy1.jpg
glad to see this case is closed, now lets look at italian stereotypes in Nintendo games



see now, this is another good example of a straw man argument.


thanks for illustrating my point!

[elwood731]

If anyone had interest, my full reaction to the controversy. I address some of the issues raised within this thread.

http://www.gamewithabrain.com/2008/04/18/editorial/race-croal-conrad-and-resident-evil

[Grave_Addiction]

The thing that everyone fails to realize is that we DON'T know the full story behind the villagers. They could very well be effected by something that causes them to act that way before they're fully taken over by the virus.

I think it's bad form on N'Gai's part to call the game when he's only seen a couple of videos. If anything, wait until the game is released, and then say the developers were being racially insensitive or whatever you want.

Unless he's trying to start a controversy now with the hope of getting Capcom to make the changes he thinks are necessary, in which case, he's completely crazy.

[CoffeeEdge]

Unless he's trying to start a controversy now with the hope of getting Capcom to make the changes he thinks are necessary, in which case, he's completely crazy.

Honestly, I think he just wants more hits on his blog.

[Thomas96]

Honestly, I think he just wants more hits on his blog.


Precisely,


where was N'Gai when Rockstar had us "killing the Haitians" in GTA Vice City.

Where was N'Gai when Cole Train was acting like a streotypical black person in Gears of War. (although when I was playing the game I didn't have a problem with him, I actually liked the character and I still do)

Where was N'Gai during the mess of bad [but true] streotypes in GTA San Andreas.

Where was N'Gai when people across the internet was laughing at HBCU Football.(game) (how about writing about them, and help get them on the map) I love HBCU bands, and can't wait to see that aspect of football implemented in a game.

[camoor]

If anyone had interest, my full reaction to the controversy. I address some of the issues raised within this thread.

http://www.gamewithabrain.com/2008/04/18/editorial/race-croal-conrad-and-resident-evil

I like your article a great deal better, it presents the issue much more fairly (I hate to say it but NGai is out in loony-tunes left field on this one)

What Res Evil 5 should do to balance their cultural insensitivity evenly is to introduce:

An somewhat stupid American badass who solves all problems exclusively with his fists/guns
A sexy Asian "Black Widow" character who knows martial arts (of course...)
A cheesy, chauvinistic Spanish ladies man
A stereotypically idealized girl teenager who is spunky, brave, and sexually naive
An evil foreign cult leader
Simple, naive, and dirty European villagers
Idiotic, inept, and corrupt European law enforcement

OH WAIT THEY HAVE ALREADY DONE ALL OF THAT

[CoffeeEdge]

If anyone had interest, my full reaction to the controversy. I address some of the issues raised within this thread.

http://www.gamewithabrain.com/2008/04/18/editorial/race-croal-conrad-and-resident-evil
Honestly, I think he just wants more hits on his blog.

Same goes for you. ;)

[Grave_Addiction]

Precisely,


where was N'Gai when Rockstar had us "killing the Haitians" in GTA Vice City.

Where was N'Gai when Cole Train was acting like a streotypical black person in Gears of War. (although when I was playing the game I didn't have a problem with him, I actually liked the character and I still do)

Where was N'Gai during the mess of bad [but true] streotypes in GTA San Andreas.

Where was N'Gai when people across the internet was laughing at HBCU Football.(game) (how about writing about them, and help get them on the map) I love HBCU bands, and can't wait to see that aspect of football implemented in a game.

I don't understand the fuss over Cole Train. Yeah, he's a stereotypical black guy, but who cares? He's a bad ass character, and everyone loves him.

The gaming industry has been built upon stereotypes of all kinds, not just black people.

[Thomas96]

I don't understand the fuss over Cole Train. Yeah, he's a stereotypical black guy, but who cares? He's a bad ass character, and everyone loves him.

The gaming industry has been built upon stereotypes of all kinds, not just black people.


I don't have a problem with Cole Train.. but I was reading an article about it (don't remember where) but Gears is a game set on another planet, entire different world, and Cole is acting like a streotypical black male on earth at this time) Everytime, I see a black person in a game, I don't need him/her acting like a streotypical black person.

But I'm not really complaining about Cole, because like I said, when I was playing the game, I enjoyed Gears, I enjoyed Cole too.

[homeland]

I thought the character of Cole Train was just a rehash of the Terrence Tate Office linebacker character set in the gears world. Or Maybe that actor just cant stretch his abilities far enough to separate the 2 characters. Regardless I still liked Cole. He was funny.

On a side note I just finished Half life 2 and I have to say seeing a black scientist as one of the main supporting characters didn't make me think "wow a black man who is smart in a video game"

[Nephlabobo]

Honestly, I think he just wants more hits on his blog.

So do I.

And I think the gameblogs are exactly the same.

N'gai gives a racist comment, the gameblogs take the worst bits of that comment and then post it up on their sites, to generate a reader fuss.

Gaming journalism = tabloids.

[doc_zaius]

On a side note I just finished Half life 2 and I have to say seeing a black scientist as one of the main supporting characters didn't make me think "wow a black man who is smart in a video game"


that's PRECISELY the point! You DIDN"T NOTICE! It was a guy who just happens to be black. That's the opposite of a "Cole Train" type character.

He didn't talk like a Gansta or "urban" or whatever. I think Valve has done a great job with their characters. Alex doesn't look like she stepped out of a rap video or "came from the streets", she's just a regular girl who happens to kick a whole lot of ass. You meet regular people of all kinds.

[doc_zaius]

Honestly, I think he just wants more hits on his blog.


yeah, why are those black folks trying to ruin our good time! they're just too sensitive!

right?!

[Greetard]

Right.

[CoffeeEdge]

yeah, why are those black folks trying to ruin our good time! they're just too sensitive!

right?!

Wow. I challenge you to take what I said further out of context. Just try. It's not possible.

[doc_zaius]

Wow. I challenge you to take what I said further out of context. Just try. It's not possible.


damn straight. I gave it 100% the first time.

[CoffeeEdge]

damn straight. I gave it 100% the first time.

So, 100% stupid. Awesome.

[doc_zaius]

S..s..s..stupid...?



http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Arts/Arts_/gallery/2006/07/26/TortureJillGgallery.jpg

[CoffeeEdge]

Thread over.

[doc_zaius]

Thread over.


oh, you're no fun anymore.

[doc_zaius]

If anyone had interest, my full reaction to the controversy. I address some of the issues raised within this thread.

http://www.gamewithabrain.com/2008/04/18/editorial/race-croal-conrad-and-resident-evil



hey, elwood. Your piece is a good read. I agree that I hope it opens up more dialogue about games. I think it's refreshing to have some talk about games and society that isn't Fox-News-GTA-made-me-kill-my-mom filler.

[Grave_Addiction]

that's PRECISELY the point! You DIDN"T NOTICE! It was a guy who just happens to be black. That's the opposite of a "Cole Train" type character.

He didn't talk like a Gansta or "urban" or whatever. I think Valve has done a great job with their characters. Alex doesn't look like she stepped out of a rap video or "came from the streets", she's just a regular girl who happens to kick a whole lot of ass. You meet regular people of all kinds.

The thing people also need to realize is there are a lot of black people who fit the Cole Train mold. So why do developers have to stay away from portraying a black character the way that some black people act like?

[CoffeeEdge]

So why do developers have to stay away from portraying a black character the way that some black people act like?

Because of watchdogs like N'Gai Croal, who will do anything to draw attention to their blogs/views.

[Inf^Shini]

Because of watchdogs like N'Gai Croal, who will do anything to draw attention to their blogs/views.
These seven pages are evidence that it works

[CoffeeEdge]

These seven pages are evidence that it works

And therein lies the real shame of all this.

[doc_zaius]

And therein lies the real shame of all this.


for someone who hates this thread so much, you sure do post a lot.

[doc_zaius]

and btw, belittling the author isn't making his points any less valid.



ad hominum isn't any more successful than straw man approaches.

[CoffeeEdge]

for someone who hates this thread so much, you sure do post a lot.
I never said that I hated this thread.

and btw, belittling the author isn't making his points any less valid.
Not a problem. They weren't valid to begin with, so he has nothing to lose.

[doc_zaius]

ok, back and forth with you was fun and all...



http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/reviews/919220_20040114_screen001.jpg


now please get the last word in....


in....3...2...1...

[CoffeeEdge]

now please get the last word in....
I already did, in the post right before yours.

Once you start completely fabricating statements and sentiments of mine completely out of nowhere, you lose.

[akilshohen]

The thing people also need to realize is there are a lot of black people who fit the Cole Train mold. So why do developers have to stay away from portraying a black character the way that some black people act like?

because it's the one stereotype that's always potrayed. Like it was said on mtv.com in the interview, gears was set in a different planet, and cole was acting like he was from earth

[Nephlabobo]

N'Gai Croal as Cole in the Gears of War movie!

[camoor]

I can't believe Lando sold out to the Empire!

http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2007/10/22/images/lando.jpg

[phear3d]

theres a difference between gamers and supposed-gamers who are journalist. writing an issue about something that isnt there are what journalist do. this was first presented by mtv's multiplayer blog, i believe, and it made me cringe. i never took that blog seriously since they immediately pulled out the race card on resident evil 5. one of their biggest supporters is N'Gai Croal. N'Gai's a smart guy, some original articles on his blog, but i didn't expect this from him. in the end, he's more of a Fox News guy than our typical blogger. what a shame really.

[javeryh]

I don't understand how this is even an issue. Won't most gamers kill ANY zombie no matter what race it is? Isn't that what we are trained to do? I'm just not buying his argument - if RE5 was set in Europe in the 1940s and there were "skinny, emaciated, Hasidic-looking" zombies coming after me I wouldn't think twice about blowing them away - they're freaking zombies!!! If Capcom put the faces of everyone I knew on the bodies of the zombies I still wouldn't have a problem with it - all zombies must die!!! It's like science or something...

[inthecutt]

The thing people also need to realize is there are a lot of black people who fit the Cole Train mold. So why do developers have to stay away from portraying a black character the way that some black people act like?


In order for the gaming culture to be taken seriously as any other form of media they also have to consider their audience regardless of what they think the demographic of video game players. If your releasing it to the public you have a responsibility. True character development includes establishing the background of character and then presenting them to your audience. Which means zero research as far Cole and RS 5 was done in reference to people of African decent.


In reference to Cole Train, he was a random/stereotypical character Epic just threw together and left it's audience either saying "thats true" or "does it always have to be grape soda" or wow "I''m glad there a cool black guy" in this game. These reactions are what i got from 4 of my friends at least.

If Epic said hey Cole was recruited from slum somewhere in the future then maybe the "grape soda nitpicking" might have been less in your face blow to some gamers. See there's some character development to set the tone of the character Epic could have used which would explain Coles love for grape soda.

As far as I'm concerned theres a helluva alot more Black or other race of people who don't fit the the mold if you a lot harder and do better research.BTW ELMWOOD731 good piece I thought in shed some light on some the things N'gai was trying to address.

[doc_zaius]

In order for the gaming culture to be taken seriously as any other form of media they also have to consider their audience regardless of what they think the demographic of video game players. If your releasing it to the public you have a responsibility. True character development includes establishing the background of character and then presenting them to your audience. Which means zero research as far Cole and RS 5 was done in reference to people of African decent.


In reference to Cole Train, he was a random/stereotypical character Epic just threw together and left it's audience either saying "thats true" or "does it always have to be grape soda" or wow "I''m glad there a cool black guy" in this game. These reactions are what i got from 4 of my friends at least.

If Epic said hey Cole was recruited from slum somewhere in the future then maybe the "grape soda nitpicking" might have been less in your face blow to some gamers. See there's some character development to set the tone of the character Epic could have used which would explain Coles love for grape soda.

As far as I'm concerned theres a helluva alot more Black or other race of people who don't fit the the mold if you a lot harder and do better research.BTW ELMWOOD731 good piece I thought in shed some light on some the things N'gai was trying to address.

Well that is the definition of a stereotype isn't it? Yeah, there may be people in real life who act like that but the character's attributes are often used as a crutch or an easy shortcut to any true character development. Throw in a few phrases and the audience just identifies "Oh, that's the hip Urban black dude."


The problem is that we see it repeated over and over ad nauseum. Almost as irritating as having every female lead and/or villain sporting DDD breasts with waterballoon physics.

[Nephlabobo]

In order for the gaming culture to be taken seriously as any other form of media they also have to consider their audience regardless of what they think the demographic of video game players. If you're releasing it to the public you have a responsibility. True character development includes establishing the background of character and then presenting them to your audience. Which means zero research as far Cole and RE 5 was done in reference to people of African descent.

Fixed your atrocious spelling.

Now, what kind of fucking character development do you need for zombies?

This is the kind of politically correct bullshit that gaming doesn't need.

[hollowfreak]

... it's ART and therefore should be treated as such! :)

[insertcleverthing]

It could be worse. They could be hip, urban zombies with triple D breasts.

Wait, is that worse? ...Or better?

...

[hollowfreak]

Gears of War II ... the part of Private Augustus Cole, aka "The Cole Train" is now being played by Tiger Woods. There, are you happy now? :lol:

[Crizzletin]

i was gonna type up something but i noticed someone said the same thing on the kotaku site...

N'gai says - What was not funny, but sort of interesting, was that there were so many gamers who could not at all see it. Like literally couldn’t see it. So how could you have a conversation with people who don’t understand what you’re talking about and think that you’re sort of seeing race where nothing exists?

some guy posted - I think this speaks more about Croal's own prejudices on what he sees than anything else. When I saw the trailer, I didn't see evil people - I saw what looked like impoverished people just getting by on daily life when shit hits the fan. The imagery is like that because, duh, it's a horror game. The problem with Croal isn't his own prejudices, but rather that he presumes he is thinking for everyone else. Don't tell me what I see. I see what I see. YOU see what YOU see.

[crazytalkx]

I haven't read any posts in the thread but this reminds me of a South Park episode where none of the kids find the town flag racist (several white stick figures hanging a black one) since they were just looking past the color. The Spaniards didn't complain about Resident Evil 4 (as far as I know). So killing only white people would be acceptable?
And there's also the stupid fact that has probably been mentioned about the development team being Japanese in regards to N' Gay's (hah) question about the lack of black people on it.

GRUMBLE GRUMBLE GRUMBLE

[doc_zaius]

I haven't read any posts in the thread nor, apparently, the articles.

[docvinh]

Well, after reading the article, I have some thoughts. I haven't watched the trailer in a while, but I honestly don't remember really seeing any classic racist imagery, but I am by no means an expert on that. However, I don't think they really did anything else different that I haven't seen in any other RE game, but once again, I'm no expert. Don't get me wrong, I do believe racism exists, I just don't believe that this game is really a representation of racism. Like others have said, I believe that stereotyping of blacks is more prevalent in games like GTA, and more discussion and criticism should be pushed towards that then towards this game.

[phear3d]

Well, after reading the article, I have some thoughts. I haven't watched the trailer in a while, but I honestly don't remember really seeing any classic racist imagery, but I am by no means an expert on that.

saw this comment on kotaku

by dunetiger : the mekuri... (http://kotaku.com/commenter/dunetiger/) at 09:19 PM on 04/10/08 (http://kotaku.com/378535/clearly-no-one-black-worked-on-this-game#c5137924) Reply (http://kotaku.com/378535/clearly-no-one-black-worked-on-this-game#)
* Connectedness Index: 154
I think this speaks more about Croal's own prejudices on what he sees than anything else. When I saw the trailer, I didn't see evil people - I saw what looked like impoverished people just getting by on daily life when shit hits the fan. The imagery is like that because, duh, it's a horror game. The problem with Croal isn't his own prejudices, but rather that he presumes he is thinking for everyone else. Don't tell me what I see. I see what I see. YOU see what YOU see.


he also thinks like a journalist.. open minded, but close minded as well.