View Full Version : possibility of a new ds?
thisjustanother
08-19-2008, 08:29 AM
with the new released pics and stuff of the new psp 3000. does anyone think that there will be a new ds coming out in the next year or so.
i was just thinking this cause i still have and use the phat ds and will probably not buy the ds lite just because why buy something else when the first isnt broken.
Strell
08-19-2008, 08:41 AM
I'm not trying to sound rude, but this topic pops up every few months, and shortly before every E3, with everyone claiming there's "totally a reason" why Nintendo is going to release a redesign, which - when confronted about it - turns out to be little more than "because we think so." I think I've heard about a new DS the last 3 years, and this was all AFTER the Lite was announced, and seems to go on the precedent that the GBA went through 4 iterations.
The DS sells amazingly well enough, and a redesigned PSP - which, by the way, is redesigned in the pure sense of the word, and most people won't notice a difference between it and the Slim since they are basically identical - is not enough to force Nintendo's hand.
At this point they have no reason to make another DS, and instead have reason to make a new handheld entirely. I'd expect a successor to the DS to be announced within the year, though there are rumors that one will launch before the fiscal year is over, which puts it potentially coming out in March 2009.
But the answer is no - a new DS redesign is basically out of the question unless Nintendo gets their hands on some kind of super technology that makes it paper thin, or recharges via radio waves, or something crazy like that, and even then they'd have no reason to use it on the current DS and instead thrust it into their new handheld.
guinaevere
08-19-2008, 09:01 AM
Eh. Maybe yes, maybe no. Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/15/nintendo-has-a-ds-lite-lite-redesign-ready-to-go/) has been following this rumor (http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/16/nintendo-denies-ds-lite-rumors-maybe/) for sometime. (i'd search for more articles but i'm too lazy)
The speculation is that the gba port goes away, and onboard memory is added with possibly larger screens. But the key to the rumor is that Nintendo is holding off on production until their DS Lite sales begin to dip and they need to give it a new boost (this part I can believe if nothing else).
But I'm going to have to disagree with Strell on this one. No company produces a product and then lets it sit and get stale, not in a dynamic environment. And hardware/software technology is a fully dynamic market.
I think we all know that there is a "new" DS in the works. It's all about the timing though. Guitar Hero DS is selling insanely well and so is the DS Lite. I think if anything it will be an updated DS over a completely new handheld...I would say the absolute earliest would be closer to the holidays but even that is questionable at this point.
Gothic Walrus
08-19-2008, 10:28 AM
Not this shit again... :wall: (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185419)
LeafPanda
08-19-2008, 01:14 PM
Not this shit again... :wall: (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185419)Exactly, There won't no new ds until the DS lite stops selling which seems nearly impossible for a couple of years.
The fat DS was selling great when nintendo released DS lite. The GBA did great when they released GBA SP. GBA SP did great when they released GBA micro.
Strell
08-19-2008, 05:27 PM
The fat DS was selling great when nintendo released DS lite. The GBA did great when they released GBA SP. GBA SP did great when they released GBA micro.
The PS2 was selling well when the PS2 slim was announced.
So what's your point? Believing the conspiracy theories of the last 3 years that have all proven bunk?
It has nothing to do with the conspiracy theories . It just shows that Nintendo is willing to make a redesign even if the existing system is successful.
Gameboy goes from Gameboy - Gameboy Pocket - Gameboy Light (Japan only)
GBA goes from GBA - GBA SP - GBA Micro
Nintendo releasing another redesign DS before DS2 is not out of the question
Snake2715
08-19-2008, 06:06 PM
I dont suspect a successor for at least 2 years from now so sometime late 2009 and thats my earliest projected release date, guess.
A revamped one? Maybe, but the sales are outstanding why piss em off?
dmaul1114
08-19-2008, 06:29 PM
I doubt it. I could see some minor redesign that let them cut costs and make more profit (ditch the GBA port etc).
But at this point they'd probably be better off to just stick with the light and get the DS successor out in 2009 or 2010.
Strell
08-19-2008, 06:31 PM
It has nothing to do with the conspiracy theories . It just shows that Nintendo is willing to make a redesign even if the existing system is successful.
Gameboy goes from Gameboy - Gameboy Pocket - Gameboy Light (Japan only)
GBA goes from GBA - GBA SP - GBA Micro
Nintendo releasing another redesign DS before DS2 is not out of the question
Terrible logic.
Gameboy came out in 1989, Pocket in '96, and light in '97. GBA didn't launch until 2001. That's 13 years - of course redesigns will come out over that length of time. You didn't even include the GBC. But that's more than three times the amount of life the DS has had.
GBA SP took two years after the GBA, and the micro is generally considered invalid because it was not a replacement to the SP, but more of a complimentary accessory. And everyone knows it was basically a flop since it was too expensive and less usable than the GBA SP, since it couldn't play GBC/GB games. In the grand scheme of things it's not fitting the mold of a classic redesign.
DS came out in 2004 and was originally not meant to replace the GBA, but it has and there's no reason to ever make another non-touch/dual screen handheld.
So 5 years of the DS and we've seen one redesign. According to your logic we should have already had a third model by now (and thus a second redesign), but we don't.
This is a tired old argument that people continue to bring up simply because of A) rumors and B) because then they can use it to accuse Nintendo of whatever nonsense they want to at that time.
I mean please - internal memory and losing the GBA slot? With the way Guitar Hero DS is selling? Nintendo would be telling third parties to piss off if they pulled a stunt like that.
dmaul1114
08-19-2008, 06:48 PM
DS came out in 2004 and was originally not meant to replace the GBA, but it has and there's no reason to ever make another non-touch/dual screen handheld.
I wouldn't go that far. While it's had it's uses, most of the games I've enjoyed have made little to no use of the touch screen. And many have made little worthwhile use of both screens.
Maybe for the casual, soccer mom crowd Nintendo is after there's a need for the touch screen for brain age type games.
But I don't think a pure traditional gaming portable from another company needs a touch screen. I'd even argue the touch screen has been bad for it as there's been many fewer good 2D side scrollers than we had on the GBA which was the main reason I bought a GBA and subsequently a DS.
Seems like all that comes out these days is gimmicky casual games, some text based point and click adventure games and JRPGs. Things have really slowed from late 2005 through 2006 when we got a couple Castlevania games (at least there's a 3rd one coming), Sonic Rush, NSMB, Super Princess Peach etc. Much less from the GBA with all the mario ports, 2 Metroids, Gunstar Superheros etc. etc.
But I guess that's just all a matter of taste....and getting off topic.
Strell
08-19-2008, 07:12 PM
I wouldn't go that far.
And neither would Nintendo circa 2004.
But that's never stopped you from having really terrible opinions on things and voicing them, so I know anything I could say at this point wouldn't make a dent. Especially when your argument has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand, and is little more than "hey I don't think it needs touch screen, so why can't they bla bla bla."
Someone else wants to make one that's pure hardware, they can. And they can call it the PSP and watch it slowly lose support over the years.
dmaul1114
08-19-2008, 07:17 PM
It's a catch 22 for me, as I don't have any interest in the PSP either as I have no interest in 3D "console-like" games on handhelds. I play at home and want something I can't get on the consoles--namely good 2D platformers, metroid type games etc. I usually don't even take my DS on trips anymore as I end up not touching as it prefer working, watching movies or reading on flights to gaming for whatever reason.
But I guess I just have to accept that those genre's are pretty much dead and I'll probably have no need for the next gen portables as they'll probably all be fully 3D systems.
I'd hardly call my opinion terrible. There's no questioning the touch screen has been a huge success for Nintendo, I'm just saying it hasn't done much good for those of us who just wanted a bunch of solid 2D games like we got on the GBA. Just like the Wii has done no good for people who wanted advancements in traditional games and franchises, rather than casual games and franchise sequels that could have been on the GC sans waggle.
It is off topic, but this thread is a pointless repost of a recent thread already linked to above, so fuck it.
It all depends on how much longer PSP can continue beating DS in Japan. Nintendo can release the new portable in Japan first and wait on NA and EU versions until sales dip.
Funny Sony just announced the third model of PSP. Will Nintendo follow soon?
PawnTakesKing
08-20-2008, 08:16 PM
Funny Sony just announced the third model of PSP. Will Nintendo follow soon?
Great question. I'm wanting to get in on the DS hype-train, but with rumors circulating of a redesign, I'm hesitant to pick up a Lite. I was going to wait until September when they released the Metallic Silver Lite.
Strell
08-20-2008, 09:07 PM
Great question. I'm wanting to get in on the DS hype-train, but with rumors circulating of a redesign, I'm hesitant to pick up a Lite. I was going to wait until September when they released the Metallic Silver Lite.
Don't listen to 62.
There's no DS redesign coming.
This PSP "redesign" is actually little more than a tiny facelift rather than plastic surgery.
I almost forgot GBA SP actually did get another redesign with the backlit GBA SP, so the GBA actually 4 redesign.
crunchewy
08-21-2008, 09:42 AM
I don't know if there will be a redesign, but there are some improvements I'd like to see. The first set of wants would qualify as minor upgrades, and perhaps Nintendo would do some of this to a minor DS Lite upgrade:
- improved volume control (pop-out knob or pretty much anything other than the awful slider we have now)
- brightness adjustment button or other control that can be accessed at any time (it's crazy that you have to power off and on to adjust brightness, especially when the GBA SP had a brightness button and that worked fine!)
- better sounding and louder speakers
- higher sound quality/lower noise headphone output
- longer and fatter stylus
- USB charging via a USB or mini-USB jack (and included USB charger), replacing the proprietary jack and charger currently used
- new touchscreen that supports both stylus and finger (skin - like the iPhone) input
- built-in rumble
- 802.11 g and/or n (in addition to b)
Now for some bigger improvements I'd like to see, though perhaps for a DS2:
- built-in web browser, primarily to allow for logging into WiFi services. With the current DS you can't play online at Starbucks or any other wireless service that has a web-page based login. A built-in browser that can be brought up when going online would fix that
- SD card storage and/or internal flash to support downloadable content and downloadable games
- change over to a download game format, perhaps even doing away with all card slots. Have all current and future games available as downloads. Substantially lower download game prices to account for the fact that you can't resell as well as due to lower distribution costs, no packaging, etc. Aside from the ability to carry all your games with you on the device, this would help to curb piracy - being able to carry all your games on a single cart would no longer be a reason to buy a "flash cart", so hopefully fewer people would buy them, and as a result, fewer would delve into easy-as-pie piracy. Substantially lower prices also help to curb piracy.
- built-in "GameStore"
- Virtual Portable (GBA, GBC, GB, GameGear, NeoGeo Pocket, etc.)
- motion sensing, like the iPhone and Wii remote
- multi-touch screen
- higher resolution screens, though not necessarily bigger
- analog control stick(s)
Nintendo may have the lions share of the portable core-gaming market, but I suspect that they see what's happening with the iPhone/iPod Touch and they don't want to be left behind. Far less expensive, downloadable games on a platform that fits in your pocket - that's Nintendo's biggest competitor as we go forward IMHO. Also, the iPhone/iPod Touch tap into the casual gaming market that Nintendo loves. I don't think Nintendo's going to want Apple to have the lions share of that market. If we get a DS2 sooner rather than later, it will probably be because of the iPhone, not because of any challenge from Sony.
lilboo
08-21-2008, 09:50 AM
No redesign because I said so [-(
- higher sound quality/lower noise headphone output
Interesting, since tests show that the DS Lite and Gameboy Micro have low noise, relatively accurate headphone outputs and are the best of any past Nintendo handheld. It relies heavily on the impedance of the headphones, though. You can't use high impedance, audiophile grade headphones and expect the best. Under normal 16-32 Ohm loads, it seems to be fine.
The main problem with the DS audio, is the synthesizer itself, which is noisy and seems virtually unchanged from the GBA, still sounding worse than the SNES.
crunchewy
08-22-2008, 09:40 AM
Interesting, since tests show that the DS Lite and Gameboy Micro have low noise, relatively accurate headphone outputs and are the best of any past Nintendo handheld. It relies heavily on the impedance of the headphones, though. You can't use high impedance, audiophile grade headphones and expect the best. Under normal 16-32 Ohm loads, it seems to be fine.
The main problem with the DS audio, is the synthesizer itself, which is noisy and seems virtually unchanged from the GBA, still sounding worse than the SNES.
That could be. I don't know what the cause of it is, but the DS sounds bad on my headphones. It's worth noting that I'm using fairly high-end in-the-ear-canal headphones which does have the effect of making noise/distortion/etc much more noticeable since they block out background noise so well. Westone UM-2 in-ear-canal phones. I'm not actually an audiophile and, in fact, I don't really think these headphones sound all that great. They do sound better than the other in-the-ear-canal phones I've tried (so far), but compared to an inexpensive pair of Sennheiser PX-100 on-the-ear headphones, they are very disappointing.
Why do I use the UM-2's then? Because I ride the train and bus to work each day. In that environment, since the PX-100's don't block any noise at all you have to have them at a frighteningly high volume, and of course you still get the background noise. Also the PX-100's leak sound like a sieve (meaning, others can hear them too). So... the UM-2's are the most tolerable option I've been able to find for this situation. I use them for my iPod and DS. Which I suppose is one of the reasons the DS sounds so bad - in comparison to an iPod, the DS's sound quality is abysmal.
Well, you are comparing CD quality music against ultra-compressed samples and synth. Tests run using the same music files on both (using a homebrew music player on the DS) show the audio out is not that bad.
Anyway, I heard the new DS will be released and bundled with Duke Nukem Forever. ;)
StinkyCheese
08-22-2008, 10:34 AM
no redesign because lilboo said so [-(
crunchewy
08-22-2008, 11:12 AM
Well, you are comparing CD quality music against ultra-compressed samples and synth. Tests run using the same music files on both (using a homebrew music player on the DS) show the audio out is not that bad.
Actually I have tried that, and the noise floor on the DS (I think that's what they call it) even with high-bitrate MP3 files isn't so good. There is a fair amount of background hiss, stuff not in the recordings. Again, though, this is exaggerated by high-end in-ear-canal phones since they block out so much environmental background noise. That's what I've got, though.
Cao Cao
09-28-2008, 01:36 AM
Yet another New DS/DS redesign rumor pops up, this time (allegedly) in the business newspaper Nikkei:
http://www.dsfanboy.com/2008/09/27/japanese-newspaper-details-new-camera-equipped-ds/
According to Nikkei's sources, the new/redesigned DS will be designed as competition against the iPhone, offering music functions, larger screens, and a camera. They also speculate that it will have Wii connectivity via the SD card*, and have some sort of wireless connection. Speculated to be priced less than 20000 yen and supposedly will be announced in "a few days," possibly at that media conference.
*CRAZY DREAM: Hey folks! Now you can load your NES/SNES/GEN/TG16/MS/NG/C64 VC games onto an SD card and play them on your new DS! Reaction - "Huzzah! Jubilation! :applause:"
REALITY: Heeeeeeey kids! You can take pictures with your DS camera and watch them on the Photo Channel. Reaction - "Ugh... :roll:"
*CRAZY DREAM: Hey folks! Now you can load your NES/SNES/GEN/TG16/MS/NG/C64 VC games onto an SD card and play them on your new DS! Reaction - "Huzzah! Jubilation! :applause:"
Won't happen since Nintendo currently locks VC games to one Wii. I'll stick with physical copies that'll work on replacement consoles decades from now. VC is like renting because if Nintendo shuts down VC servers and end support for them, you're fucked.
The unanswered question is: will it have GBA support?
With a SD slot and camera, signs are pointing to no.
LeafPanda
09-28-2008, 02:20 PM
Wow, the rumor has turned into a report. There is going to be a new DS with Music PLayback and camera.
dmaul1114
09-28-2008, 02:27 PM
Wow, the rumor has turned into a report. There is going to be a new DS with Music PLayback and camera.
Looks legit.
http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSTRE48R09X20080928
ninja dog
09-28-2008, 02:49 PM
Gee, thanks Nintendo!
*throws digital camera and iPod Touch into the street and runs them over*
Yes, because their 2 megapixel camera and music playback that only supports MP3 (likely with only ID3v1 support) will be the ultimate.
Looking forward to the WPA/WPA2 wifi support though.
Dr Mario Kart
09-28-2008, 03:52 PM
What a horrible idea. They've become so paranoid about the PSP that they want to enter the multimedia device market?
The PSP Slim/Monster Hunter 2 bump with the 3000 model on the horizon must've driven them insane.
Nohbdy
09-28-2008, 06:59 PM
The unanswered question is: will it have GBA support?
With a SD slot and camera, signs are pointing to no.
One word as to why you're wrong:
Pokemon.
I also don't see what's wrong with a camera. It's as random as the Gameboy one.
Nohbdy
09-28-2008, 07:34 PM
Also, I think you should all consider the fact that there may be a hologram projector in the DS for one sole game in conjunction with the camera and it won't be activated with any other:
Pokemon Snap 2.
Jayayess1190
09-28-2008, 10:57 PM
DO WANT! And will buy.
johnnypark
09-28-2008, 11:15 PM
Of all the features or functions they could add to a DS, they chose the 2 most unnecessary. What a waste of time.
Hasn't Nintendo always insisted they make game systems, not multimedia devices? It's one of the reasons the Wii doesn't support dvd playback. They're sitting on a (bigger) goldmine and aren't doing anything about it. Ugh!
Cao Cao
09-28-2008, 11:16 PM
One word as to why you're wrong:
Pokemon.
I also don't see what's wrong with a camera. It's as random as the Gameboy one.
Functionally speaking, Pokemon isn't much of a reason to keep the GBA slot. They could easily fill in the void with a set of Gold/Silver remakes, much like how they released the Red/Green remakes to fill in R/S/E's gaps. G/S remakes would sell meelleeons of copies.
What a horrible idea. They've become so paranoid about the PSP that they want to enter the multimedia device market?
The PSP Slim/Monster Hunter 2 bump with the 3000 model on the horizon must've driven them insane.
I tend to wonder how much of this decision could be attributed to the iPhone's entrance into the games arena. Even Nintendo would be at least somewhat concerned over Apple stealing some of their casual audience in the long-term, especially if they announce some low-priced "iPod Game" device to directly compete with the DS. A multimedia DS could be considered a sort of pre-emptive measure against Apple.
Moxio
09-29-2008, 12:51 PM
I would spend millions on a G/S/C remake. 8-)
ninja dog
09-29-2008, 01:52 PM
Yes, because their 2 megapixel camera and music playback that only supports MP3 (likely with only ID3v1 support) will be the ultimate.
Looking forward to the WPA/WPA2 wifi support though.
That's alright, I don't need anything fancy. This along with pictochat, which I use as a calendar/datebook, will be perfect for a go-go '00s adult like myself.
What a horrible idea. They've become so paranoid about the PSP that they want to enter the multimedia device market?
The PSP Slim/Monster Hunter 2 bump with the 3000 model on the horizon must've driven them insane.
google "apple app store"
they're taking pre-emptive steps to counter that potential beast. In a few years, after ipod touches and iphones drop in price and become standard models, it'll be a force to be reckoned with. The teen crowd will all own them, so nintendo will have to work much harder to make that demographic care, in my opinion.
utopianmachine
09-29-2008, 01:55 PM
If SD card functionality meant that we could move VC titles from the Wii to the DS, I'll be quite interested. I'll bet Mario RPG would look better on the DS than on my 32" HDTV (on which it looks like blocky-ugh currently).
Other than that, nothing else interests me. I have my iPod for music and my digital camera or cell phone for pictures, all of which I carry around with me at all times because I'm a girl and we're allowed purses for the carrying of our world. Granted, my DS is usually in my purse too, but I can't see how the DS camera would be anything greater than 1.3 MP, and at that quality, I'll pass bigtime.
Kayden
09-29-2008, 03:38 PM
Will it finally be worth buying?
slidecage
09-29-2008, 04:52 PM
I WANT A WAY TO PUT IN MEMORY CARDS AHHHHHHHHHHHHH
come on nintendo the Ds is the only system you cant save games on.
I wonder end of year everywhere or end of year Japan and summer 2009 here
190 is going to be a VERY VERY hard sell. when you can get an xbox 360 at the same price
xycury
09-29-2008, 05:14 PM
I know I can't justify a camera and mp3 music for an additional 90 over what I would like to pay for a DS.
I really wish they could mark down the original to 100, and thus get a used one cheaper. but at 190... that's just too much.
I'd only get one if it was gifted...
dmaul1114
09-29-2008, 05:26 PM
Will it finally be worth buying?
If you don't think it's worth it for the games, I don't think adding a likely crappy camera and mp3 playback is going to change anything....
PR Mega X
09-29-2008, 05:28 PM
Ugh -- wake me up when they add something useful. Until then, I'm more than satisfied with my Phat.
utopianmachine
09-29-2008, 05:48 PM
Will it finally be worth buying?
The DS has the most amazing and varied library of any console at this time. Does it have the best of every genre? I would argue no, that shooters, for example, are woeful compared to their home console counterparts. That said, the DS is an amazing piece of hardware, with games to suit every taste, at a price point which is unbeatable in terms of value.
come on nintendo the Ds is the only system you cant save games on.
I can't imagine what you mean by this statement. DS cartridges can create game saves. I'm assuming you mean saves stored externally, ie. memory/storage cards?
dmaul1114
09-29-2008, 05:49 PM
Ugh -- wake me up when they add something useful. Until then, I'm more than satisfied with my Phat.
You'll be waiting for the successor to the DS then.
I originally had not plans of upgrading to the Lite, but after seeing how much better games looked on the brighter screens I took the plunge and haven't regretted it at all.
lilboo
09-29-2008, 05:50 PM
I can't imagine what you mean by this statement. DS cartridges can create game saves. I'm assuming you mean saves stored externally, ie. memory/storage cards?
I think you forgot to read the part that said from "Slidecage" :lol:
SL4IN
09-29-2008, 05:56 PM
Nintendo denied that this "rumor" (because this is a rumor) was never confirmed by them. A look at the Nikkei article shows no source from Nintendo of where they got this "fact" that a new ds was due at years end.
You'll be waiting for the successor to the DS then.
I originally had not plans of upgrading to the Lite, but after seeing how much better games looked on the brighter screens I took the plunge and haven't regretted it at all.
I want a Lite with the Dpad of the phat. The dpad on the lite is far inferior to the dpad of the phat ds. It's a tradeoff. You want better lighting and more vibrant color, or do you want better control? It sucks.
Kerig
09-29-2008, 07:55 PM
That's alright, I don't need anything fancy. This along with pictochat, which I use as a calendar/datebook, will be perfect for a go-go '00s adult like myself.
CAGfucius says: "He uses DS as datebook does not get many dates." :lol:
I still say shenanigans on this whole thing, Reuters or not. Nobody wants a camera/MP3 player in their DS and Nintendo knows it, they're not that dumb or desperate. I would actually be more prone to believe a built-in movie viewer, but not just MP3.
dmaul1114
09-29-2008, 08:18 PM
I want a Lite with the Dpad of the phat. The dpad on the lite is far inferior to the dpad of the phat ds. It's a tradeoff. You want better lighting and more vibrant color, or do you want better control? It sucks.
D-pad was better on the Phat, but I'll take the better screens. D-pad would really only matter for fighters. I have no problem with 2D side scroller games, which is pretty much all I play on the DS.
The left, right, up, down on the Lite's pad are fine, but it would suck for fighters which need 8 way control etc.
whitereflection
09-29-2008, 09:15 PM
I'm no fanboy or anything, but why would you guys second-guess Nintendo? Admit it: some of you thought "Two/touch screens are just a gimmick" when you first heard about DS or "It's Gamecube 1.5" about Wii, and Nintendo kicked your arses so hard they're still bleeding. So the new DS adds just a camera and mp3 player? Well, the camera would probably be better than the one on your cellphone, and if they're going to add mp3 functionality, they're probably going to improve the sound on the system (if you grew up with an SNES during the SNES-Genesis wars, you should be excited about this as I am) at the very least. Personally, I'd be ecstatic if this was the second coming of Game Boy Camera - that thing was like a photo sticker print club in your pocket. Imagine if you could also doodle on your photos with the stylus! Doesn't that sound like fun?
I think this is also the best attempt at convergence; vying for your pockets are iPods, cameras, PDAs, cellphones, and portable game systems. Now the DS does the basic functions of all those devices and you won't suffer like G did.
I know I can't justify a camera and mp3 music for an additional 90 over what I would like to pay for a DS.
I really wish they could mark down the original to 100, and thus get a used one cheaper. but at 190... that's just too much.
I'd only get one if it was gifted...
What do you mean by that? The original is already $70 used and even at Gamestop, it's still an affordable $80. And if you go to a mom-and-pop shop or a Chinatown store, you likely won't be charged tax - which would be $6 in NYC, so you guys without retarded sales taxes have no excuse not to pick up such a great little system.
Dr Mario Kart
09-29-2008, 09:18 PM
They've never been about convergence. They've always been about their hardware being specialized game machines. The addition of the touch screen/dual screen/microphone was for game applications. The Wii doesnt even support DVD playback.
Hopefully this is a Japan only, Panasonic Q all over again.
dmaul1114
09-29-2008, 09:31 PM
I'm no fanboy or anything, but why would you guys second-guess Nintendo? Admit it: some of you thought "Two/touch screens are just a gimmick" when you first heard about DS or "It's Gamecube 1.5" about Wii, and Nintendo kicked your arses so hard they're still bleeding. So the new DS adds just a camera and mp3 player? Well, the camera would probably be better than the one on your cellphone, and if they're going to add mp3 functionality, they're probably going to improve the sound on the system (if you grew up with an SNES during the SNES-Genesis wars, you should be excited about this as I am) at the very least. Personally, I'd be ecstatic if this was the second coming of Game Boy Camera - that thing was like a photo sticker print club in your pocket. Imagine if you could also doodle on your photos with the stylus! Doesn't that sound like fun?
I think this is also the best attempt at convergence; vying for your pockets are iPods, cameras, PDAs, cellphones, and portable game systems. Now the DS does the basic functions of all those devices and you won't suffer like G did.
I seldom ever take my DS outside of the house, so I don't need all that crap. I barely use the camera on my cellphone, and a cell phone is smaller and easier to carry around and something I always have on me anyway.
And I STILL think the two screens and touch screen are useless gimmicks. Most of the games I've enjoyed don't use the touch screen at all (or very sparingly) and the only good use I"ve seen for the 2nd screen is having the map displayed at all times in the Castlevania games.
MP3s--I just use my zen in the office and an older small creative flash player in the gym. Don't need a bulky DS as another MP3 palyer.
They're just pointless stuff for me. And no doodling on photos with the stylus doesn't found fun. I'm not big on pictures and I never edit pictures in photoshop etc. Just not my thing.
So none of that stuff is for me, I don't need my portables to do anything but play games, and I really don't even need a portable gaming system since I just play it at home. I just bought a DS as it had a lot of good 2D games an those are few and far between on the consoles.
I just have no interest in multifunction multimedia devices. My phone is for phone calls and text messages, my mp3 player for music and my DS for gaming. And only my phone gets carried around everywhere as I don't need gaming and music everywhere I go like some people.
That said, I'm not opposed to them putting this out, I just have no desire to buy it and if the DS lite had those in it already I simply wouldn't use those features. But no need to come off like fanboy on trying to sell everyone on how great this is and how we should all want these features.
whitereflection
09-29-2008, 09:39 PM
They've never been about convergence. They've always been about their hardware being specialized game machines. The addition of the touch screen/dual screen/microphone was for game applications. The Wii doesnt even support DVD playback.
Hopefully this is a Japan only, Panasonic Q all over again.
They've never been about outselling their competitors 10 to 1 either, but times are a-changing, yeah? And aren't you forgetting something, doc? The Wii was announced in 2004 and even then, DVD machines were ubiquitous and as low as $20. By now, most people have at least two (personally, I have four not including the PC), so why would they have wanted that added-on cost with minimal use for it? All the other devices I mentioned earlier start at $100, and other than the iPod, I doubt any other specific device has the penetration that DS does.
I seldom ever take my DS outside of the house, so I don't need all that crap. I barely use the camera on my cellphone, and a cell phone is smaller and easier to carry around and something I always have on me anyway.
And I STILL think the two screens and touch screen are useless gimmicks. Most of the games I've enjoyed don't use the touch screen at all (or very sparingly) and the only good use I"ve seen for the 2nd screen is having the map displayed at all times in the Castlevania games.
MP3s--I just use my zen in the office and an older small creative flash player in the gym. Don't need a bulky DS as another MP3 palyer.
They're just pointless stuff for me. And no doodling on photos with the stylus doesn't found fun. I'm not big on pictures and I never edit pictures in photoshop etc. Just not my thing.
So none of that stuff is for me, I don't need my portables to do anything but play games, and I really don't even need a portable gaming system since I just play it at home. I just bought a DS as it had a lot of good 2D games an those are few and far between on the consoles.
I just have no interest in multifunction multimedia devices. My phone is for phone calls and text messages, my mp3 player for music and my DS for gaming. And only my phone gets carried around everywhere as I don't need gaming and music everywhere I go like some people.
That said, I'm not opposed to them putting this out, I just have no desire to buy it and if the DS lite had those in it already I simply wouldn't use those features. But no need to come off like fanboy on trying to sell everyone on how great this is and how we should all want these features.
I didn't say this would be for everyone. In fact, I said it'd only have the rudimentary functions of other portable devices, and I'd wager that the demographic that should be the most excited about this are parents of teenagers since this is an inexpensive, durable, reputable device. You said you don't take your DS out - I don't either, but for people who do, this would appeal more to them (and I'd probably take mine out too if it did have the new things mentioned).
I can't believe any sensible person today would still say touch screens are a gimmick. Yeah, they could be used better in hardcore games, but touch screen is the main reason DS is the runaway success it is with games like Nintendogs and Brain Age. I love 2D games too, and so I have qualms with your "touch/dual screen is still a gimmick" - ever heard of Contra 4, Elite Beat Agents, Hotel Dusk, Kirby: Canvas Course, Ninja Gaiden (okay, this one wasn't 2D but it still makes remarkable use of touch screen), Advance Wars, The World Ends With You, Trauma Center, Drawn to Life, Touch the Dead? Try to play those without touch/dual screen.
And for someone who snubs others for carrying gaming and music devices, you don't think you're any worse with a cellphone? At least with a game device, I won't bother anyone unless I have the volume cranked up, and no one listens to mp3 players without earphones.
Dr Mario Kart
09-29-2008, 09:55 PM
As a general rule, convergent devices cant compete with specialized devices on the specific functions. Jack of all trades, master of none. This is why the PSP got beat.
Its going to be average at best when it comes to any of these extra functions. Every Japanese cell phone already has a camera. A lot of them can probably play MP3s. The number of people who arent on board the DS train yet but will get pushed over by this is very small.
dmaul1114
09-29-2008, 10:09 PM
As a general rule, convergent devices cant compete with specialized devices on the specific functions. Jack of all trades, master of none.
Bingo.
I'll always prefer stand alone devices for that reason.
whitereflection
09-29-2008, 10:58 PM
As a general rule, convergent devices cant compete with specialized devices on the specific functions. Jack of all trades, master of none. This is why the PSP got beat.
Its going to be average at best when it comes to any of these extra functions. Every Japanese cell phone already has a camera. A lot of them can probably play MP3s. The number of people who arent on board the DS train yet but will get pushed over by this is very small.
You're right that convergent devices have historically never beaten specialized devices, but you forget that the DS is master of at least one: games. Not even the PSP had that going for it. And so what if it's only average in every other aspect? Lest you forget, an iPod is only average in sound quality and doesn't even support any codecs other than mp3, wav, and aac.
Good point that every Japanese cellphone already has a camera - and they're better than ours - and can play mp3s, but don't you think it's a little contradictory to say that this new DS won't be successful because everyone already has one?
dmaul1114
09-29-2008, 11:05 PM
But if it's average at everything else what's the point of buying the new version? Especially for people who already have a DS? Especially when most everyone interested in this kind of technology already has digital cameras, cell phones with cameras and at least 1 MP3 player? It doesn't really save space even. My phone and smallest MP3 player are smaller combined that a DS lite.
It's just pointless in my mind. Even if you're a tech nerd that has to have a camera, phone, music player and gaming in your hands everywhere you go it's just not ideal. Might as well just by an iPhone which is smaller and likely will do everything but gaming better than this new DS.
Strell
09-30-2008, 01:18 AM
Because Nintendo knows right now that they are at a crossroads.
How many articles have come out in the last few weeks that have suggested that the iPhone is "the next big portable gaming platform?" Nevermind all the (extremely valid) arguments against it - I'm merely asking a question of quantity. How many have there been? I'm going to wager a few dozen at least, and that's not counting how many times these same articles are being reprinted endlessly in different publications and periodicals.
(Tangent note: Likewise, how many articles are talking about "all in one" gaming consoles, where there is one streamlined media to play any game from any developer/publisher from?)
I'm sure Nintendo - even though they have solidifed their name and systems as the choice of portable entertainment - is well aware of them, and is frightened beyond belief. I'm even willing to bet that Yamauchi is skulking around in his House of the Damned uttering bizarre incantations to ward off these surly young turks trying to wrest that commendable power from his company.
At some point, Nintendo has probably sat down and had board meetings where they've projected the future 5, 10, 20, 50 years from now. And damn if they may or may not be paraoid, and damn if they may or may not be right, but they damn sure know that people are going to want to have everything centralized as time goes on. That's the beauty of the iPhone, and was highlighted in their early commercials: "Now you can just carry around one thing."
Again, do not argue with me on the basis of "Yeah well the iPhone games suck worse than the current Wii line-up, and actually have better graphics." 'Cuz that's not what I'm interested in (despite how partially true it is). I think we all know as the gaming elite that we are that Cro-Mag Racing is no damn Mario Kart or Gran Turismo Portable, and likely never will be. But since that app store opened up, Apple is selling software left and right to their hardcore supporters in much the same manner Pokemon is doled out willingly by Nintendo like candy at Halloween.
Nintendo knows that that foundation is indeed big. Big big big big big.
All it's going to take is a few of the more gutsy developers to realize that they can port software to the iPhone and have some very nice amenities at their disposal - instant marketing, instant availability, motion/touch controls, potentially camera controls, integration with wifi, integration with musical playlists, integration inside iTunes, advertising in Apple commercials, etc etc. That's a lot of damn benefits given to them off the bat. Who knows what Apple's bountiful hand might contain when someone REAL steps up to the plate, such as Capcom with a Resident Evil, or Konami with a Castlevania?
Nintendo is all fully aware of that and knows that they can either continue to make straight gaming devices and been seen as dinosauric, or they can try to take the next step forward and combat the inevitable all-in-one concept on their own terms. And before you blame Nintendo for this, you can start with Sony and Nokia, since they both have gotten the ball rolling with this sort of thinking.
We can sit back and chide Nintendo for "giving in" or "selling out" or whatever, but it doesn't change the fact that this industry can't remain one-trick for very long. I'm guessing another 20 years tops. After that Nintendo is either going to be dying out, switching to third party software developer only, or again trying to figure out what the next step is.
AND BEFORE YOU ARGUE WITH ME ABOUT THIS, please note that I am not saying I champion this sort of thing. 'Cuz right now, this new DS sounds like a mess. I want a damn DS2 - not a damn DSLiteDoublePlusExtra, or whatever the fuck they will call it. I think it's high time that they could make a new, more powerful system, fill it with new features, maybe even future-proof it with the Wii and its successor.
So DO NOT argue with me that I'm somehow saying this is all kosher right now, because it damn sure feels like a chintzy thing for them to be doing. It's extravegance wrapped up around a popular gaming system, and frankly, I don't think it is needed.
But that doesn't mean that - at some point - we've got to face the facts that Nintendo remaining gaming-only is almost like Toys 'R Us versus Walmart. At some point, TRU can't ever compete with Walmart, and that's why they are slowly shutting down.
dmaul1114
09-30-2008, 02:19 AM
I agree with that. I see why Nintendo is doing it.
I just think such all in one devices are pointless and something I have no use for. But I also have no use for an iPhone as I just need my phone for phone calls and a little bit of text messaging that I'm begrudgingly using more since some friends prefer it to phone calls.
IDK, I turn 30 soon, so maybe it's just a generational gap. I see most undergrads I teach or just see around campus always listening to their iPods, texting, taking pics with their camera phones etc. Maybe I'm just too old to see the appeal of having and using all this technology nearly 24/7 (at least when awake).
Dr Mario Kart
09-30-2008, 02:50 AM
I certainly cant argue that things are going to be very different in 20 years. You win this time.
crunchewy
09-30-2008, 12:56 PM
I think, however, that one of the things that makes the iPhone and iPod Touch a great gaming platform (and I do think that it is one, or at least has the potential to be one) is that it is tiny and truly fits in your pocket which means I always have it (an iPod Touch in my case) with me, unlike my DS Lite. If the new DS isn't tiny and doesn't truly fit in your pocket, then it won't be successful in competing against the iPhone IMHO. Of course it also has to be entirely download-based. That's another huge plus in a portable gaming system - having all your games with you right on the device (that fits in your pocket.)
Making their new device that small means making some major changes, however, changes which may not appeal to the existing DS market. Specifically, getting rid of physical game controls and going fully touch and motion control, with the screen taking up most of the device's size. Unfortunately they are already well behind in that game.
Nintendo has tried making a truly tiny gaming device and it was an utter failure (outside of Japan) because they simply shrunk the GBA down so much that the screen was ridiculously tiny. It was the right idea, but the wrong approach.
dmaul1114
09-30-2008, 01:12 PM
That's another part of the problem. These all in one multimedia devices that you are supposed to take with you everywhere only work if they are tiny.
It's near impossible to make a portable gaming console that small--at least if it's going to have traditional controls and decent sized screens which are musts for me.
And there's no way Nintendo can compete with iPod touch in multimedia capabilities. How will anyone put movies and TV shows on it? If you think DVD ripping, you'll be vastly overestimating average consumer. Nintendo needs a turnkey solution which they don't have.
Nohbdy
09-30-2008, 07:20 PM
I don't think it needs to play video media.
BlueLobstah
10-01-2008, 11:39 AM
It seems like everyone is taking this rumor as true or as a good possibility. I just think honestly its someone who is being speculative, and is otherwise a very bad idea.
Nintendo is like Fort Knox when it comes to the future, they determine what goes out and nothing more. How many people knew about WiiMotion+ before it came out? Not even the developers knew about it before it was announced, so I imagine they were as shocked as most consumers were. Nintendo is amazingly tight lipped about anything in development, and I believe rightfully so.
Nintendo's philosophy seems to be only include the bare minimum once the technology is cheap enough in order to maximum profits. This has happened across the board with both their consoles and handhelds, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
My point being not only does this go against Nintendo's own philosophy, but also they do not let on what is currently being developed to anyone else. Unless this comes directly from the mouth of Nintendo, I view it was purely speculative and made up.
Nohbdy
10-01-2008, 04:58 PM
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/31913/New-DS-confirmed-tomorrow
They INSIST it's real.
dmaul1114
10-01-2008, 05:08 PM
Yeah, I'd be shocked if this wasn't true given the sources that reported it.
The Crotch
10-01-2008, 05:21 PM
Hmm. The only good I can see coming out of this for me is a drop in prices for the Lite.
Sir_Fragalot
10-01-2008, 07:49 PM
If Nintendo does not fuck this up, I might buy it. I kinda want a camera and if I can have a mp3 player and a ds in one, that would be cool. I am sure I can sell my zune off for $50-60 and cover a lot of the costs.
whoknows
10-02-2008, 01:58 AM
Hmm. The only good I can see coming out of this for me is a drop in prices for the Lite.
Yeah, I was actually looking to pick up a new DSL soon, but I may wait. I could care less about the new model if the only differences are it can play MP3's and has a camera.
wowimsocute
10-02-2008, 01:59 AM
the DSi
http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/02/nintendo-announces-the-dsi/
Nintendo just announced the DSi at its fall presentation -- we're getting more details by the second. The company is calling it a "third platform," which means it's complementing existing DS, not necessarily replacing it. The new unit looks almost exactly like the existing DS Lite, but it's some 12 percent thinner, partly because it doesn't have a GBA cartridge slot. The screens are also slightly larger, at 3.25 inches, and there are two cameras, at least one of which is VGA res. The SD slot is retained, but there's now also internal storage. Breaking...
The Crotch
10-02-2008, 02:41 AM
Two touch screens, eh? Now, is that going to fuck me over if I go out and buy a Lite?
whitereflection
10-02-2008, 07:37 AM
It seems like everyone is taking this rumor as true or as a good possibility. I just think honestly its someone who is being speculative, and is otherwise a very bad idea.
Nintendo is like Fort Knox when it comes to the future, they determine what goes out and nothing more. How many people knew about WiiMotion+ before it came out? Not even the developers knew about it before it was announced, so I imagine they were as shocked as most consumers were. Nintendo is amazingly tight lipped about anything in development, and I believe rightfully so.
Nintendo's philosophy seems to be only include the bare minimum once the technology is cheap enough in order to maximum profits. This has happened across the board with both their consoles and handhelds, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
My point being not only does this go against Nintendo's own philosophy, but also they do not let on what is currently being developed to anyone else. Unless this comes directly from the mouth of Nintendo, I view it was purely speculative and made up.
Well, apparently Nintendo went against their own philosophy if you look a few posts up.
Suikoden II rocks, by the way.
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http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198886