Sarah Palin is McCain's Choice for VP

[Unickuta]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25970882/
http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Interactives/_swf/Politics/veepstakes2008/headshots/republicans/Sarah_Palin.widec.jpg



WASHINGTON - Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain has chosen Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate, NBC News has learned.

She would be the first woman ever to serve on a Republican presidential ticket. The pro-life Palin would also be the first Alaskan ever to appear on a national ticket.

Palin, 44, was elected Alaska's first woman governor in 2006. The state’s voters had grown weary of career politician Gov. Frank Murkowski, whom she defeated in the GOP primary.

“I've been blessed with the right timing here,” Palin said before the election. “There's no doubt that Alaskans right now are dealing in an atmosphere of distrust of government and industry.”

On Aug. 1, she scored a major victory when the Alaska legislature passed a bill that authorizes her administration to award a license to TransCanada Alaska to build a 1,715-mile natural gas pipeline from Prudhoe Bay on Alaska’s North Slope to a hub in Canada.

The pipeline would be the largest construction project in the history of North America. If completed as hoped within ten years, it would ship 4.5 billion cubic feet of natural gas per day. The United States imported about 10 billion cubic feet of natural gas per day in 2007.

Under investigation for firing

But Palin’s seemingly bright future was clouded in late July when the state legislature voted to hire an independent investigator to find out whether she tried to have a state official fire her ex-brother-in-law from his job as a state trooper.

The allegation was made by former Department of Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan, whom Palin fired in mid-July.



“It is a governor’s prerogative, a right, to fill that cabinet with members whom she or he believes will do best for the people whom we are serving,” Palin told CNBC’s Larry Kudlow in an interview on Aug. 1.

“So I look forward to any kind of investigation or questions being asked because I’ve got nothing to hide.”

Palin also reacted to the indictment of Alaska Sen. Ted Stevens by calling it “very dismaying.” She added, “Hopefully though, this won’t be a distraction and get people’s minds off what has to be done in the grand scheme of things.”

As for the prospect of her being vice president, Palin told Kudlow that she could not answer the question of whether she wanted the job “until somebody answers for me what is it exactly that the VP does every day. I’m used to being very productive and working real hard in an administration. We want to make sure that that VP slot would be a fruitful type of position, especially for Alaskans and for the things that we’re trying to accomplish up here….”

Palin is married to Todd Palin, a lifelong Alaskan who is a production operator on the North Slope and a four-time champion of the Iron Dog, which is described as “the world's longest snow-machine race.”

Mother of five

They have five children. Their son, Track, enlisted in the U.S. Army on Sept. 11, 2007.
Palin birth to their fifth child, Trig, last April. The baby boy has Down syndrome, a genetic abnormality that impedes a child's intellectual and physical development.

"When we first heard, it was kind of confusing," Palin said, according to an account in the Anchorage Daily News. She called the news "very, very challenging."

But she added in a note, imagining what God would say to her family, "Children are the most precious and promising ingredient in this mixed-up world you live in down there on Earth. Trig is no different, except he has one extra chromosome."

Palin made a name for herself in Alaska politics by serving as mayor of Wasilla City for six years and going on to run unsuccessfully for the Republican nomination for lieutenant governor in 2002.

Clash over ethics

After her unsuccessful run, Palin received an appointment to the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission, where she ended up serving a role in an ethics probe into Republican Party Chairman Randy Reudrich, who was questioned about conflicts of interest with the oil industry.

The investigation ultimately forced Ruedrich to resign from the commission.

Palin's role in the investigation left her a party outsider, but she was able to win the 2006 Republican gubernatorial primary against Murkowski, going on to win the 2006 general election by seven points over her Democratic opponent.

During one debate before the primary, Palin said she was in favor of capital punishment in especially heinous cases such as the murder of a child. "My goodness, hang 'em up, yeah,” she said.
Born in Idaho, Palin moved to Alaska with her parents in 1964, when they went there to teach school.

She received a degree in communications and journalism from the University of Idaho in 1987.

[mykevermin]

The fact that she's both unknown and also a woman certainly does an excellent job, in the short term, at silencing the post-DNCC-go-Obama feeling.

It's strategically brilliant, really. The news cycle is going to drop the DNCC like a bad habit and focus on this for the weekend and leading into the Republican Convention.

I'm interested to find out more about her before making a call.

[Reality's Fringe]

.....Who?

You know, I'm honestly wondering if McCain's line of thinking in this was "Hmmm, Obama's black, so he must appeal to black people. How can I appeal to a minority as a rich white guy?....I GOT IT, SOME CHICK!"

[JolietJake]

Wow. i thought some of the candidates they were throwing around for Obama were unknown.

[fatherofcaitlyn]

Ugh, do you ever have a jigsaw puzzle and can't find the right place for that one piece?

This piece says "pandering".

EDIT: I have to thank Joliet Jake again for that sig. McCain wanted to nominate somebody just old enough to be his granddaughter.

[usickenme]

Short term it is a smart decision. Long term it is a gamble considering McCain's age and stumbling.

Way to be about 24 years behind the Dems.

[Thomas96]

Mccain had to pick an unknown so that if he loses, he doesn't hurt any of the more prominent republican candidates. If he loses, then there's no harm to him, or to her; its not like Palin is someone who the GOP needs.. unless of course her and Mccain actually win the election.

[bigdaddy]

If he picked Romney it wouldn't hurt him in 2012.

And this is so stupidish (not really stupid, but something close), just trying to get some woman (is this the only Republican woman?) to run as VP? What about experience?! She has no experience! :roll:

It's kind of sleazy, just pick the only woman the Republicans have and throw her out there because you can't attack a poor innocent woman. However in the end of the day this will grantee a McCain win.

[mykevermin]

The Obama campaign's response is that this means any question of (in)experience brought up during the election cycle is "off the table."

They also question why McCain would select somebody currently under investigation in their home state.

On a personal note, I'm a little tickled to see that McCain's speaking at the Nutter Center in Dayton, since I spent a good bit of time there skating over the past few years.

EDIT: Of course she isn't the only female Republican, but do you want Jean Schmidt as a running mate?

[fatherofcaitlyn]

Mccain had to pick an unknown so that if he loses, he doesn't hurt any of the more prominent republican candidates. If he loses, then there's no harm to him, or to her; its not like Palin is someone who the GOP needs.. unless of course her and Mccain actually win the election.

Just a random thought after looking at her and contemplating of a VP taking over for a P: Theodore Roosevelt.

...

Does anybody else get the impression that McCain wants to lose?

[RAMSTORIA]

i think its a good pick. a dark horse woman that will appeal more to the republican base than mccain does. plus, its obvious that the woman pick is intended to neutralize obamas being black and to appeal to the hillary supporters that are question marks now.

[Sc4rfac3]

If he picked Romney it wouldn't hurt him in 2012.

And this is so stupid, just trying to get some woman (is this the only Republican woman?) to run as VP? What about experience?! She has no experience! :roll: QFT He should have picked Romney. Who is this chick? Did he just throw Darts and come up with this pick? I know he is trying to go with this. Trying to steal the clinton vote but i think he just proved how flawed his judgement is.

[fatherofcaitlyn]

i think its a good pick. a dark horse woman that will appeal more to the republican base than mccain does. plus, its obvious that the woman pick is intended to neutralize obamas being black and to appeal to the hillary supporters that are question marks now.

Love her or hate her ...

There's only one HILLARY CLINTON.

[Ikohn4ever]

Its like Alan Keyes vs Obama all over again. Minority v Minority.

[mykevermin]

i think its a good pick. a dark horse woman that will appeal more to the republican base than mccain does. plus, its obvious that the woman pick is intended to neutralize obamas being black and to appeal to the hillary supporters that are question marks now.

Yeah, I see that.

I do think, however, that Hillary supporters who will vote for McCain now may have increased in number.

But if that is the case, it increased from "incredibly, incredibly small" to "slightly fewer than that."

I hope the campaign doesn't think they're going to secure moderates this way, or convince Democrats to vote Republican.

I'm still curious what the far-right wackos think, but she has a pretty good track record of hating on gays and pro-choice folks that may please them. However, she has one major veto under her belt, which was a veto of a bill which explicitly sought to prohibit benefits extensions to gay couples. This, could, premised on the "anything that isn't hardline pentecostal ideology means that you're a communist who's going to hell" attitude of those on the far right, be a problem for her. They'll point to this, and not the state's awesome record of gay hatred (one of the first two states to outlaw gay marriage in 1998), and ask her why she would allow these sinners to share health insurance policies.

[Snake2715]

i think its a good pick. a dark horse woman that will appeal more to the republican base than mccain does. plus, its obvious that the woman pick is intended to neutralize obamas being black and to appeal to the hillary supporters that are question marks now.

I think this is great marketing by him.... lets see where it goes from here.

[fatherofcaitlyn]

I'm still curious what the far-right wackos think

If you can't take my word for it, Rush starts broadcasting at 12PM EST.

[Dead of Knight]

This kind of scares me, because the idiot voters in this country don't vote with candidates' political records, they vote with what they hear from the media and what they see on the surface, such as race, gender, pro-life, pro-gay rights, etc. A LOT of ignorant women are gonna see this and immediately run to McCain. They don't care if she has no experience or is nothing like Hillary.

However, it will be hilarious seeing her get mauled by the Obama campaign in attack ads/statements for her record, and even more hilarious when Biden absolutely demolishes her in the debates. It probably won't have much effect on them PUMAs though.

[Thomas96]

If he picked Romney it wouldn't hurt him in 2012.



It may not, hurt him, but tell that to Romney, (and McCain) To the GOP this is more of a politicial suicide mission, than a campaign.

[Dead of Knight]

It may not, hurt him, but tell that to Romney, (and McCain) To the GOP this is more of a politicial suicide mission, than a campaign.

Honestly I was hoping it was Romney. He is hilarious to watch as he constantly changes his stances for his audience.

[Mr. 420]

Mccain is going to just concede right? Or will the supreme court just make him president.

[Unickuta]

I don't like Palin but she's an extroardinarily popular governor.

[bigdaddy]

The Obama campaign's response is that this means any question of (in)experience brought up during the election cycle is "off the table."


They had an Obama person on MSNBC, the first thing out of his mouth was "She has no foreign policy experience!!!", and I rolled my eyes.

I'm voting for Bob Barr, fuck both McCain and Obama.

And Romney is a dumbass, but if Obama picked Mrs. Clinton, McCain would have picked Romney. She has no economy experience, and McCain really needed that.

[fatherofcaitlyn]

I don't like Palin but she's an extroardinarily popular governor.

In Alaska, woo hoo. 3 already guaranteed red state electoral votes in the bag.

EDIT: You have to admit, the MSM is covering this over Obama's Speech. Mission accomplished, Sparky.

[Mr. 420]

I thought mission accomplished meant thousands of deaths and complete and utter failure.

[spudypresto]

Ugh, do you ever have a jigsaw puzzle and can't find the right place for that one piece?

This piece says "pandering".
VP nominations are designed to be pandering, political moves. This makes sense.

[lordwow]

In Alaska, woo hoo. 3 already guaranteed red state electoral votes in the bag.

EDIT: You have to admit, the MSM is covering this over Obama's Speech. Mission accomplished, Sparky.

The media was all over the entire DNC for the last week, and most of this morning. In a 24-hour news world, Obama's speech is already old news.

[RAMSTORIA]

Honestly I was hoping it was Romney. He is hilarious to watch as he constantly changes his stances for his audience.

well he is a snacker.

[RAMSTORIA]

I'm still curious what the far-right wackos think, but she has a pretty good track record of hating on gays and pro-choice folks that may please them. However, she has one major veto under her belt, which was a veto of a bill which explicitly sought to prohibit benefits extensions to gay couples. This, could, premised on the "anything that isn't hardline pentecostal ideology means that you're a communist who's going to hell" attitude of those on the far right, be a problem for her. They'll point to this, and not the state's awesome record of gay hatred (one of the first two states to outlaw gay marriage in 1998), and ask her why she would allow these sinners to share health insurance policies.

I think her pro-life stance will be very good in the GOPs eyes. Shes a mother of 5 and has a son with down syndrome, testing during the pregnancy showed he would have it.

As for "hating on gays", she says she has gay friends and has done more for gays in Alaska than anyone before. As best I can tell she is just against gay marriage, a stance I understand, but don't necessarily agree with (we've done this debate before, so let's not do it again).

Still, all this talk about her not having foreign policy experience is worthless because McCain has plenty and he's the one trying to be Commander-in-Chief.

[FloodsAreUponUS]

I am so conflicted over who the hell I want to vote for. Both parties are absolutely in the shitter, but my work and my wallet tells me to vote for republicans, but my social issues tell me to vote democratic.

[dmaul1114]

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Right now it's a great move.

But how will a political newcome with so little experience in a sparsely populated state fair on the biggest national stage of all--a presidential election?

How will she be as a campaigner on this stage?

How will she do in debates against the uber experienced Biden?

How does this help his ticket on the economy, which McCain admitted he knows little about? And that Obama will continue to hammer as a main issue of the campaign?

It's a great PR move now. Counters the message that McCain is just old washington, and should make a strong play for women independent voters and Hillary supporters who are still disgruntled.

But it could backfire if she ends up being a disaster on the campaign trail, in debates etc.

[FloodsAreUponUS]

I do agree that this election is probably one of the more interesting in recent years.

[dmaul1114]

Still, all this talk about her not having foreign policy experience is worthless because McCain has plenty and he's the one trying to be Commander-in-Chief.

But with a 72 year old candidate you can't ignore any shortcomings of his VP choice as there's a much greater chance of McCain dying during his term, or suffering a debilitating health issue that leaves him unable to serve.

With a younger president people will think about it less, with an old president voters on the fence will undoubtedly pay more attention to the VP and whether they are comfortable with her taking over should something happen to McCain.

How much difference that will make is hard to say, probably not a ton. But the VP choice will get more consideration from swing voters than usual I would think.

[RAMSTORIA]

But it could backfire if she ends up being a disaster on the campaign trail, in debates etc.

It's a huge gamble that will either pay off big time or backfire.

I do agree that this election is probably one of the more interesting in recent years.

Not in recent years, ever. No matter who wins history will be made with a woman or an muslim african-ameircan in the white house.


its a joke!

But with a 72 year old candidate you can't ignore any shortcomings of his VP choice as there's a much greater chance of McCain dying during his term, or suffering a debilitating health issue that leaves him unable to serve.

With a younger president people will think about it less, with an old president voters on the fence will undoubtedly pay more attention to the VP and whether they are comfortable with her taking over should something happen to McCain.

How much difference that will make is hard to say, probably not a ton. But the VP choice will get more consideration from swing voters than usual I would think.

McCains health isn't a concern for me at all.

[camoor]

They have five children. Their son, Track, enlisted in the U.S. Army on Sept. 11, 2007.
Palin birth to their fifth child, Trig, last April. The baby boy has Down syndrome, a genetic abnormality that impedes a child's intellectual and physical development.
"When we first heard, it was kind of confusing," Palin said, according to an account in the Anchorage Daily News. She called the news "very, very challenging."
But she added in a note, imagining what God would say to her family, "Children are the most precious and promising ingredient in this mixed-up world you live in down there on Earth. Trig is no different, except he has one extra chromosome."

This is what irks me, she's an idiot.

She admits she contemplated abortion ("it was confusing" and "very, very challenging") but decided against it because of her religious beliefs.

Well some of us don't have the same religious beliefs lady. Some of the people faced with this decision aren't rich white women in Alaska with alot of connections.

That's why it's a choice. You can choose against it on reliigious grounds. But it's a choice.

The damn Repubs, they managed to find one of the only women politicians that's pro-life. Shouldn't this type of woman be baking cookies somewhere?

[FloodsAreUponUS]

I always hate it when politicians reference religion in one way or another.

You don't need religion to do your job, in fact, you might be better without it.

[Gothic Walrus]

So how would one juggle raising an infant with Down's Syndrome and the Vice Presidency at the same time? Even with the best child care in the world, her family life is going to take up a significant portion of her time.

I really think McCain should've gone with somebody more experienced, but it's too early to judge the reaction to Palin.

[CaseyRyback]

Why did she spend so much of her time talking shit about the Republican party? I guess McCain must have realized that he truly has become a Washington insider and needed a "maverick."

Also she panders to the crowd more than a professional wrestler. I fucking hate that.

[Gothic Walrus]

Why did she spend so much of her time talking shit about the Republican party? I guess McCain must have realized that he truly has become a Washington insider and needed a "maverick."

Also she panders to the crowd more than a professional wrestler. I fucking hate that.

Picking a "maverick" will probably come back to bite him in the ass, since it's going to be an easy thing for the Democrats to seize on.

[dmaul1114]

McCains health isn't a concern for me at all.

And it's not going to be for most solid conservatives. They vote the party line and don't have to worry about such things.

But for people who are on the fence on which way to vote and are taking time to pay attention and make an informed vote, it will matter. And it should matter.

But it won't for conservatives who would take any republican over any democrat.

[62t]

So if McCain drops dead before Nov this woman will run for president?

[Thomas96]

Hilary has her work cut out for her. She needs to campaign and make sure her supporters vote Barrack. If they H-Rod supporter go for Palin, it could create some future backlash against Hilary by Barack supporters.

[fatherofcaitlyn]

So how would one juggle raising an infant with Down's Syndrome and the Vice Presidency at the same time?

Obviously, you ...

step down from the vice presidency to spend more time with family.

OR

let somebody else raise the defective (get over it) child.

Too cynical?

[MSI Magus]

I am so conflicted over who the hell I want to vote for. Both parties are absolutely in the shitter, but my work and my wallet tells me to vote for republicans, but my social issues tell me to vote democratic.

I really dont want to vote for either canidate either. Maybe the way I decided could help you. As many as 3 Supreme Court Justices will be put on the bench by the next President.....thats really freaking important. Supreme Court justices dont effect economics nearly as much as social issues...and on social issues like you I lean to the left.

Add to the fact that McCain held up Alito someone who said that there is nothing wrong with torturing people because its not punishment(because its ok to be cruel...as long as its not punishment)as an ideal Justice....and my choice was obvious.

I still really dont want to vote Obama....but I cant bring myself to see 3 more Alitos on the bench.

[FloodsAreUponUS]

I really dont want to vote for either canidate either. Maybe the way I decided could help you. As many as 3 Supreme Court Justices will be put on the bench by the next President.....thats really freaking important. Supreme Court justices dont effect economics nearly as much as social issues...and on social issues like you I lean to the left.

Add to the fact that McCain held up Alito someone who said that there is nothing wrong with torturing people because its not punishment(because its ok to be cruel...as long as its not punishment)as an ideal Justice....and my choice was obvious.

I still really dont want to vote Obama....but I cant bring myself to see 3 more Alitos on the bench.

Thank you for this insight. I just hope that we keep on building ships.

[fatherofcaitlyn]

my wallet tells me to vote for republicans

Your wallet must enjoy being opened and drained of its contents or you're overlubing your credit card for your wallet's pleasure.

Unless you profit from selling insurance at steeper rates or produce milspec weapons, I don't see what McCain can offer you economically.

Please elaborate.

[bigdaddy]

Bob Barr everyone vote for Bob Barr!

[RAMSTORIA]

So how would one juggle raising an infant with Down's Syndrome and the Vice Presidency at the same time? Even with the best child care in the world, her family life is going to take up a significant portion of her time.


my guess is shed do it the same way she would as governer. with a nanny. they way most working parents raise their kids.



She admits she contemplated abortion ("it was confusing" and "very, very challenging") but decided against it because of her religious beliefs.



She doesn't admit that at all.


But for people who are on the fence on which way to vote and are taking time to pay attention and make an informed vote, it will matter. And it should matter.



as an on the fence voter it still doesn't matter to me. a health emergency can happy to anyone at anytime, including obama. nobody knows what tomorrow brings.

Bob Barr everyone vote for Bob Barr!

id like to, but barr is the most lackluster libertarian candidate i can ever remember. id rather write in ron paul.

[lilboo]

Man, Obama should had Hilary as his VP and these bitches could have had a bra and panties match for votes.

[Koggit]

This is going to help McCain's campaign immensely. Great, great move for them.

Thank god it's not Romney.

[Ryuukishi]

Palin is a bizarre choice. I don't know what else to say.

From what I've read about her this morning, she actually seems like a pretty cool person and a capable governor of Alaska. But what is her position on Iraq? What is her position on Russia? Does she have anything to say about anything that affects the entire country, and the entire world, and not just specifically about Alaska?

McCain is 72. Having such a completely unknown entity *this* close to becoming the president, should he die or become incapacitated due to his age, is just a scary thought.

[dmaul1114]

Your wallet must enjoy being opened and drained of its contents or you're overlubing your credit card for your wallet's pleasure.

Unless you profit from selling insurance at steeper rates or produce milspec weapons, I don't see what McCain can offer you economically.

Please elaborate.

I'm curious as well. I can't imagine many people on CAG would benefit from McCain's economic or tax plans. Nor be hurt by Obama's rolling back of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, closing tax loopholes on large corporations, ending tax breaks for companies that send jobs overseas etc.

If people are in those income brackets, they really don't need to waste time on a video game deals site!

I think many people have just bought into the rhetoric of Democrats=high taxes for everyone, and ignored that republicans lately have only benefited the wealthy at the expense of the lower and middle classes.

[jputahraptor]

Love her or hate her ...

There's only one HILLARY CLINTON.

Thanks the Lord for that.

I think she's an excellent pick. She's young, supported McCain from the start, and will appeal to women. She has an approval rating over 80% which for those keeping score is about four times as high as Pelosi and Congress. She has experience has a mayor and governor and for those knocking her experience she is running as vice president which means she will be exposed to the job as she goes, she will not be the job. She's smart, a familywoman, she took on corruption and other politicians, and she's a cutey. She is also a "regular girl" not like the change preaching Obama's choice of another Washington politician. I think this is a very wise choice and I think if we give some time to learn a little more about her she could prove herself.

[dmaul1114]

as an on the fence voter it still doesn't matter to me. a health emergency can happy to anyone at anytime, including obama. nobody knows what tomorrow brings.


With that view then you should always care whether you think the VP is ready to take office since they are second in line.

But I can see why you don't care, since you lean conservative/libertarian there's no way you can vote for Obama so it's a moot point for you, like I said above. His policies are damn far from libertarian.

You say on the fence, but there's no way a libertarian could even contemplate Obama. You can be on the fence between McCain and some third party or write in would be all I'd think

[thenockmlb]

This is probably the second worst pick that could have been made, ahead of only Tim Pawlenty. The main argument against Obama is that he has no experience; now McCain selects a two-year governor, absolutely negating this argument.

Palin is a woman who is anti-women's rights, and could literally be a heartbeat away from the presidency. Biden will carve her up in the debates. I think this will drive away the blue-collar male voters to a degree. Her most widely known position besides that is that she thinks drilling for more oil is a good thing.

Palin, in her two years as governor, has also been riddled in corruption. She is currently under investigation for firing the boss of her sister's ex-husband. Argument here is more of the same.

I think if they wanted to appeal to women and throw a curveball at the same time, the obvious choice was Texas Gov. Kay Bailey Hutchinson.

[lilboo]

I don't know my history: Is this the first time a woman is running for vice president?

[RAMSTORIA]

With that view then you should always care whether you think the VP is ready to take office since they are second in line.

But I can see why you don't care, since you lean conservative/libertarian there's no way you can vote for Obama so it's a moot point for you, like I said above. His policies are damn far from libertarian.

You say on the fence, but there's no way a libertarian could even contemplate Obama. You can be on the fence between McCain and some third party or write in would be all I'd think

my views are all over the place (though people only seem to notice when i bring up conservative ones), so voting for obama is not out of the realm of possibility.

I don't know my history: Is this the first time a woman is running for vice president?


that actually has a chance, yes. but there have been others from 3rd parties.

[Ikohn4ever]

that actually has a chance, yes. but there have been others from 3rd parties.

well Ferraro for mondale in 84

http://www.huffingtonpost.com//gadgets/slideshows/248/webpix//slide_248_2.jpeg (http://www.huffingtonpost.com//gadgets/slideshows/248/webpix//slide_248_2.jpeg)

she is a former Miss Wasilla, so she is used to answering the tough questions better look out Biden

[Tybee]

As for "hating on gays", she says she has gay friends and has done more for gays in Alaska than anyone before. As best I can tell she is just against gay marriage, a stance I understand, but don't necessarily agree with (we've done this debate before, so let's not do it again).

"Why, some of my best friends are gay!"

:roll::roll::roll:

Hilary has her work cut out for her. She needs to campaign and make sure her supporters vote Barrack. If they H-Rod supporter go for Palin, it could create some future backlash against Hilary by Barack supporters.

If the speeches by Hillary, Bill, and especially Barrack this week didn't wake them up, nothing will. And good riddance, I say. If you're so ignorant and immersed in identity politics as to vote for McCain out of sheer bitterness, even knowing that he has consistently voted against equal pay for women and is at best ambivalent about abortion rights, then you deserve the presidency you get.

I think she's an excellent pick ... She has an approval rating over 80% which for those keeping score is about four times as high as Pelosi and Congress.

Wait, so you're equating Palin's approval rating in her home state to Pelosi's approval rating nationally? I suspect if you polled Americans yesterday about their feelings on Palin, 90% of the responses would be "Who?"

[FloodsAreUponUS]

Your wallet must enjoy being opened and drained of its contents or you're overlubing your credit card for your wallet's pleasure.

Unless you profit from selling insurance at steeper rates or produce milspec weapons, I don't see what McCain can offer you economically.

Please elaborate.

I work for a company that does Joiner work on ships. Our biggest customers are the US Navy without a doubt.

Do you think a democratic president is going to want to keep on building the ships we are making?

[Koggit]

This is probably the second worst pick that could have been made, ahead of only Tim Pawlenty. The main argument against Obama is that he has no experience; now McCain selects a two-year governor, absolutely negating this argument.

Palin is a woman who is anti-women's rights, and could literally be a heartbeat away from the presidency. Biden will carve her up in the debates. I think this will drive away the blue-collar male voters to a degree. Her most widely known position besides that is that she thinks drilling for more oil is a good thing.

Palin, in her two years as governor, has also been riddled in corruption. She is currently under investigation for firing the boss of her sister's ex-husband. Argument here is more of the same.

I think if they wanted to appeal to women and throw a curveball at the same time, the obvious choice was Texas Gov. Kay Bailey Hutchinson.

You're really, really overestimating the importance of the issues in a political campaign. It's about PR, character and image.

[fatherofcaitlyn]

Man, Obama should had Hilary as his VP and these bitches could have had a bra and panties match for votes.

Even with that visual, I'm not going gay.

[dmaul1114]

Hilary has her work cut out for her. She needs to campaign and make sure her supporters vote Barrack. If they H-Rod supporter go for Palin, it could create some future backlash against Hilary by Barack supporters.

This should be an easy campaing.

To woo the disgruntled Hillary supporters McCain picked a woman who doesn't support women's right to choose.

That should be very easy to point out and get the vast majority of female Hillary supporters (and probably a lot of the male supporters) on Obama's side given Hillary's staunch pro choice stance and that of the majority of her supporters.

[dmaul1114]

I work for a company that does Joiner work on ships. Our biggest customers are the US Navy without a doubt.

Do you think a democratic president is going to want to keep on building the ships we are making?

I'm sure a lot of non-military ship building has gotten shipped over seas and Obama could help bring more back.

And I dont' think Obama would scale down miliatry ship building either. Not with the threat of Iran, problems with Russia etc. He's not talked about downsizing the military. He's talked about getting it out of Iraq and making it stronger. I wouldn't expect ship building to slow down. Even beyond needing more ships, a lot of the naval ships are old and needing replaced.

[SpazX]

This should be an easy campaing.

To woo the disgruntled Hillary supporters McCain picked a woman who doesn't support women's right to choose.

That should be very easy to point out and get the vast majority of female Hillary supporters (and probably a lot of the male supporters) on Obama's side given Hillary's staunch pro choice stance and that of the majority of her supporters.

Well I've always thought that any Hillary supporter who now supports McCain because Barack got the nomination is beyond stupid, but for any of them to vote for McCain now that he has a pro-life, anti-women's rights woman on board as VP is even more stupid. Which guarantees it will happen, but I don't think on a very large scale.

[fatherofcaitlyn]

I work for a company that does Joiner work on ships. Our biggest customers are the US Navy without a doubt.

Do you think a democratic president is going to want to keep on building the ships we are making?

I appreciate the honesty. To answer your question: Nope.

McCain will be the best choice for you. McCain will do his best to keep our military busy.

As long as you are too old to be drafted and too young to retire, the McCain years will good for you.

[KingBroly]

If McCain had picked Romney it would have hurt his chances with the evangelicals, considering they see Mormons as cultists. They would've stayed home if he picked Romney, despite best Republican efforts.

This pick seems like a good pick for the Republican base, a pick they can get behind and one he needed to gather their support. But I don't know if that'll work since she's really unknown. Until I saw it, I didn't know who she was. So I'm not sure if this will have a major impact.

[fatherofcaitlyn]

I think Harriet Miers should be on the Supreme Court next.

[mykevermin]

Still, all this talk about her not having foreign policy experience is worthless because McCain has plenty and he's the one trying to be Commander-in-Chief.

Is this the "Iran/Pakistan border" McCain?
The doesn't know the difference b/w sunni and shia McCain?

Look, I have lots of experience playing Arkanoid, but I'm still bad at it.

[Koggit]

I work for a company that does Joiner work on ships. Our biggest customers are the US Navy without a doubt.

Do you think a democratic president is going to want to keep on building the ships we are making?

I appreciate the honesty. To answer your question: Nope.

McCain will be the best choice for you. McCain will do his best to keep our military busy.

As long as you are too old to be drafted and too young to retire, the McCain years will good for you.

See, this is exactly why PR and image matter more than the issues.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/633/

Obama plans to increase the size of our military.

But, being against the Iraq war, he's seen as anti-military.

If anything, expect more war with Obama as he and Biden both have been more assertive about Iran/Pakistan/Afghanistan than McCain.

[SpiderLocMTGO]

Anti-woman's rights? What, are we going to undo the suffrage movement now? I wasn't aware that abortion was the only rights women have, or that it impacts only women.

[thrustbucket]

Anti-woman's rights? What, are we going to undo the suffrage movement now? I wasn't aware that abortion was the only rights women have, or that it impacts only women.

Don't underestimate the importance of a "woman's right" to murder. It's key in this election.

Just heard this news, I think it's a good choice. I was actually saying he should strongly consider her weeks ago. I do like her stance on energy.

That being said, I would have preferred Romney.

I think I'm with bigdaddy, I am looking harder and harder at Bob Barr now.

[lawdood]

What a completely asinine choice by the McCain campaign...pander much? Those still fighting the fight for Hillary may seem a little nutty at times, but what the Republicans failed to take note of is that the women who support Hillary are generally progressive in their thinking when it comes to women's rights. Something this unknown from Alaska is not. It was a hail mary selection that will fail miserably and simply just highlights the desperation of conservatives this election.

I thank McCain for this selection as he just guaranteed his loss and us having to put up with another 4 years of fear mongering and failed policies from a Republican administration.

[thrustbucket]

What a completely asinine choice by the McCain campaign...pander much? Those still fighting the fight for Hillary may seem a little nutty at times, but what the Republicans failed to take note of is that the women who support Hillary are generally progressive in their thinking when it comes to women's rights. Something this unknown from Alaska is not. It was a hail mary selection that will fail miserably and simply just highlights the desperation of conservatives this election.

I thank McCain for this selection as he just guaranteed his loss and us having to put up with another 4 years of fear mongering and failed policies from a Republican administration.

Maybe. So I guess we'll get 4 years of growing welfare, creating more government, and the first steps to true socialism instead. Doesn't matter if you change the color of shit, it's still shit.

I really don't think they are going after the hardcore Hillary supporters with this choice. But there are MANY women out there that will vote for a woman just because she is a woman, regardless of political views. Same for any minority.

[lawdood]

Maybe. So I guess we'll get 4 years of growing welfare, creating more government, and the first steps to true socialism instead. Doesn't matter if you change the color of shit, it's still shit.

I really don't think they are going after the hardcore Hillary supporters with this choice. But there are MANY women out there that will vote for a woman just because she is a woman, regardless of political views. Same for any minority.


Wake up, the Republicans are the ones who have been shoveling shit down our throats for the last 8 years. Your fear mongering is just that, fear mongering with no basis in reality.

You want out of control growing government, just look at what the conservatives have given us the past 8 years.

[dmaul1114]

Maybe. So I guess we'll get 4 years of growing welfare, creating more government, and the first steps to true socialism instead. Doesn't matter if you change the color of shit, it's still shit.


Come on. Do you even listen to Obama's plans? It may be a larger government than you libertarians/conservatives like, but it's far from promoting an advance to true socialism.

From his speech last night.


What is that American promise?

It's a promise that says each of us has the freedom to make of our own lives what we will, but that we also have the obligation to treat each other with dignity and respect.

It's a promise that says the market should reward drive and innovation and generate growth, but that businesses should live up to their responsibilities to create American jobs, to look out for American workers, and play by the rules of the road.

Ours is a promise that says government cannot solve all our problems, but what it should do is that which we cannot do for ourselves -- protect us from harm and provide every child a decent education; keep our water clean and our toys safe; invest in new schools and new roads and science and technology.

Our government should work for us, not against us. It should help us, not hurt us. It should ensure opportunity not just for those with the most money and influence, but for every American who's willing to work.

That's the promise of America -- the idea that we are responsible for ourselves, but that we also rise or fall as one nation; the fundamental belief that I am my brother's keeper; I am my sister's keeper.

That's the promise we need to keep. That's the change we need right now. So let me spell out exactly what that change would mean if I am president.



That doesn't sound like socialism to me. Maybe more government that the "make it on your own or die" stance the far right libertarians would like, but not socialism.

Nor do his plans he laid out sound socialist to me:



Change means a tax code that doesn't reward the lobbyists who wrote it, but the American workers and small businesses who deserve it.

You know, unlike John McCain, I will stop giving tax breaks to corporations that ship jobs overseas, and I will start giving them to companies that create good jobs right here in America.

I'll eliminate capital gains taxes for the small businesses and the start-ups that will create the high-wage, high-tech jobs of tomorrow.

I will, listen now, cut taxes -- cut taxes -- for 95 percent of all working families. Because in an economy like this, the last thing we should do is raise taxes on the middle-class.

And for the sake of our economy, our security and the future of our planet, I will set a clear goal as president: In 10 years, we will finally end our dependence on oil from the Middle East. We will do this.

Washington's been talking about our oil addiction for the last 30 years, and by the way John McCain's been there for 26 of them. And in that time, he's said no to higher fuel-efficiency standards for cars, no to investments in renewable energy, no to renewable fuels. And today, we import triple the amount of oil that we had as the day that Sen. McCain took office.

Now is the time to end this addiction, and to understand that drilling is a stop-gap measure, not a long-term solution. Not even close.

As president, I will tap our natural gas reserves, invest in clean coal technology, and find ways to safely harness nuclear power. I'll help our auto companies re-tool, so that the fuel-efficient cars of the future are built right here in America. I'll make it easier for the American people to afford these new cars. And I'll invest $150 billion over the next decade in affordable, renewable sources of energy -- wind power and solar power and the next generation of biofuels; an investment that will lead to new industries and 5 million new jobs that pay well and can't be outsourced.

America, now is not the time for small plans.

Now is the time to finally meet our moral obligation to provide every child a world-class education, because it will take nothing less to compete in the global economy. You know, Michelle and I are only here tonight because we were given a chance at an education. And I will not settle for an America where some kids don't have that chance. I'll invest in early childhood education. I'll recruit an army of new teachers, and pay them higher salaries and give them more support. And in exchange, I'll ask for higher standards and more accountability. And we will keep our promise to every young American -- if you commit to serving your community or our country, we will make sure you can afford a college education.

Now is the time to finally keep the promise of affordable, accessible health care for every single American. If you have health care, my plan will lower your premiums. If you don't, you'll be able to get the same kind of coverage that members of Congress give themselves. And as someone who watched my mother argue with insurance companies while she lay in bed dying of cancer, I will make certain those companies stop discriminating against those who are sick and need care the most.

Now is the time to help families with paid sick days and better family leave, because nobody in America should have to choose between keeping their job and caring for a sick child or ailing parent.

Now is the time to change our bankruptcy laws, so that your pensions are protected ahead of CEO bonuses; and the time to protect Social Security for future generations.

And now is the time to keep the promise of equal pay for an equal day's work, because I want my daughters to have the exact same opportunities as your sons.

Now, many of these plans will cost money, which is why I've laid out how I'll pay for every dime -- by closing corporate loopholes and tax havens that don't help America grow. But I will also go through the federal budget, line by line, eliminating programs that no longer work and making the ones we do need work better and cost less -- because we cannot meet 21st century challenges with a 20th century bureaucracy.


Now I know full well you disagree with all of this and the two of us will never agree on much of everything.

But for god's sake at least make some effort to discuss issues intelligently without resorting to tired, partisan rhetoric and tossing out terms like socialism and communism that are just useless hyperbole rather than thought out responses that articulate your disagreement.

And the same goes for any liberals that respond to his post with personal attacks, insults or rhetoric rather than taking some effort to point out his folly.

[FloodsAreUponUS]

I agree with most voters PR and Image is more important then the things that really matter. I hear far to many people say they want to vote for someone because they think he looks good or the typical I like the way he handles himself line.

Personally I will vote on whoever wants to keep me employed.

[dmaul1114]

Personally I will vote on whoever wants to keep me employed.

I respect your honesty. I don't like your stance, but I can respect it.

I'm thoroughly a democrat and support strong social policies that cost a lot of money. And I'll keep voting for them even though I'll be in the tax brackets that pay for them in a few years, especially if I marry my current girlfriend who is also highly educated and making a nice chunk of change.

But I also understand that the issue is very different from working class people that don't have advanced degrees to fall back on and lots of expendable income, so I can respect your stance. Some people don't have the luxury of being able to easily afford putting their principles ahead of their bottom line and that's perfectly understandable.

[Koggit]

Personally I will vote on whoever wants to keep me employed.

Neither candidate has any plans to modify Navy funding and both candidates intend to prolong (and start) fruitless wars, so your job is safe either way.

You need to look more closely at who's running for representative and senator in your state. If any changes are made to Naval funding, it'll be from them.

[RAMSTORIA]

Neither candidate has any plans to modify Navy funding and both candidates intend to prolong (and start) fruitless wars, so your job is safe either way.

You need to look more closely at who's running for representative and senator in your state. If any changes are made to Naval funding, it'll be from them.

This man speaks the truth. Your rep and sen are much more important to your job than the president.

[dmaul1114]

The more I think about this pick the more it baffles me. I really can't see good beyond the inital PR buzz that will be gone by tomorrow.

This pick really hurts him on the one area his campaign had the edge--experience.

How much it will hurt is hard to say, as in the end of the day for the people who care about experience McCain still has much more than Obama.

So it's just a matter of how many people will consider the completely inexperienced VP who's a 72 year-old man's heartbeat away from the oval office.

Where it really hurt sis by taking away McCain's ability to continue to attack Obama's lack of experience, as they can just respond by saying that experience must not matter so much since McCain chose to put a much less experienced person a heart beat away from the presidency.

On top of that it won't do much for female swing voters or former Hillary supporters due to her pro life stance and just generally being too far right (further than McCain from what I've read so far) to appeal to swing voters period.

And finally she's a complete wild card as far as performance under this kind of international spotlight.

I really don't see anyway this doesn't end up being huge mistake and killing the already fairly slim (IMO) chance that McCain had. Just a foolish and misguided attempt to counter Obama's message of change by putting an unknown woman on the ticket.

[RAMSTORIA]

The more I think about this pick the more it baffles me. I really can't see good beyond the inital PR buzz that will be gone by tomorrow.

This pick really hurts him on the one area his campaign had the edge--experience.

How much it will hurt is hard to say, as in the end of the day for the people who care about experience McCain still has much more than Obama.

So it's just a matter of how many people will consider the completely inexperienced VP who's a 72 year-old man's heartbeat away from the oval office.

Where it really hurt sis by taking away McCain's ability to continue to attack Obama's lack of experience, as they can just respond by saying that experience must not matter so much since McCain chose to put a much less experienced person a heart beat away from the presidency.

On top of that it won't do much for female swing voters or former Hillary supporters due to her pro life stance and just generally being too far right (further than McCain from what I've read so far) to appeal to swing voters period.

And finally she's a complete wild card as far as performance under this kind of international spotlight.

I really don't see anyway this doesn't end up being huge mistake and killing the already fairly slim (IMO) chance that McCain had. Just a foolish and misguided attempt to counter Obama's message of change by putting an unknown woman on the ticket.


What's even more even more baffling is that her name has been thrown around for months. So it's not like the pick was totally unexpected.

I'm reserving judgement on her until I hear her speak and do some debating with Biden, which shouldn't be too far off.

The one thing that I'm dissapointed in, I was hoping VP picks might push me towards one side more than the other. But after the Biden and Palin picks I'm right where I was before.

[mykevermin]

Maybe. So I guess we'll get 4 years of growing welfare, creating more government, and the first steps to true socialism instead. Doesn't matter if you change the color of shit, it's still shit.

That's just absurd. The size, scope, and power of government, especially the power of the executive branch, should make you far more frightened of government than Obama's health care plan.

The last 8 years have taught me that the genuine fascist steps this government, again particularly the executive branch, has taken is far more frightening than McCarthy-era fears of "SOCIALISM!!!"

The fact that you are legally being wiretapped, and that you may be detained indefinitely, with no charges being brought up against you, no legal recourse, no need for a body of proof - the double murder of habeas corpus and miranda - should put to rest any sort of "I'm scared of the government getting too large so I guess I'll vote Republican" arguments you have to offer.

You may as well say "I support responsible government spending, so I vote Republican." ;)

EDIT: Yeah, I'm looking forward to the Palin/Biden debates. It's gonna be like King Kong Bundy and Little Beaver at Wrestlemania III.

[RAMSTORIA]

I just thought of something. I really wish Romney would have won and picked Palin. It would have been the most attractive ticket ever.

That's just absurd. The size, scope, and power of government, especially the power of the executive branch, should make you far more frightened of government than Obama's health care plan.

The last 8 years have taught me that the genuine fascist steps this government, again particularly the executive branch, has taken is far more frightening than McCarthy-era fears of "SOCIALISM!!!"

The fact that you are legally being wiretapped




so does obama ;)

[MSI Magus]

I just thought of something. I really wish Romney would have won and picked Palin. It would have been the most attractive ticket ever.

That was sacrasm correct? No one can be that blind.

[dmaul1114]

People keep saying VP debateS, but I think there is only one of those. I hope I'm wrong as I really expect Biden to own her.

[mykevermin]

No, I think he's right. Romney's pretty dashing, man.

McCain's height hasn't been an issue (though, did you know he and the oft-pointed-out-as-being-tiny Dennis Kucinich are both 5'7"?), but I hate to be paranoid, the height difference between McCain and Obama will come across quite starkly in televised debates.

GET SOME ELEVATOR SHOES, MAN!

EDIT: dmaul, the custom, I think, is 3 pres and 1 vp debates. Shame, as the vp debates have the best quips. Lloyd Bentsen's "Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy" and Admiral James Sotckdale's "Who am I? Why am I here?" are among my favorite one-liners in political history.

[FloodsAreUponUS]

So if I look at it from a financial perspective(presuming neither one wants to cut back Navy funding) it seems as though I should vote for my own principles, which will clearly land me in the democrat area.

The next couple of months will be interesting with debates and news.

[funkflexmctough]

Shes a VILF! :applause:

[RAMSTORIA]

That was sacrasm correct? No one can be that blind.

Romney is one good lookin dude, Palin ain't so bad for a 44 year old mother of 5. If you can think of a better looking ticket... and don't tell me Gore/Liberman

[camoor]

Anti-woman's rights? What, are we going to undo the suffrage movement now? I wasn't aware that abortion was the only rights women have, or that it impacts only women.

Let me guess - you like 'em barefoot and pregnant.

[mykevermin]

So if I look at it from a financial perspective(presuming neither one wants to cut back Navy funding) it seems as though I should vote for my own principles, which will clearly land me in the democrat area.

The next couple of months will be interesting with debates and news.

More or less. Staying in the middle east or leaving ten minutes ago, none of that, as big as it is, will really change the size, structure, and direction of the Navy.

[camoor]

well he is a snacker.

What's the story behind your sig

[mykevermin]

It's his response to JolietJake's.

All in the name of humor.

http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4796271&postcount=4

[KingBroly]

Until last election, the tallest candidate always won the Presidency (or at least that's what the media said). Same goes for what was known as the "Redskins Rule" where depending on the Redskins final home game before the election determined who won (home win = incumbent win), so they're not really issues, just stuff people use to say 'see, now candidate x will win, you have no choice'.

This pick...probably something I'll come to grips with as McCain's best choice. Not a Washington insider, pretty fresh face, the Republican base will probably love her from what I'm hearing. This sounds like a pick McCain needed to get the base fully behind him.

[MSI Magus]

Romney is one good lookin dude, Palin ain't so bad for a 44 year old mother of 5. If you can think of a better looking ticket... and don't tell me Gore/Liberman

Well you have said some pretty conservative stuff.....I took it wrong and thought you meant best looking as in not looks but like damn I cant wait to vote for these 2. As far as looks go yes that would be the best looking ticket ever probably.

[fatherofcaitlyn]

More or less. Staying in the middle east or leaving ten minutes ago, none of that, as big as it is, will really change the size, structure, and direction of the Navy.

How about a war between Russia and Georgia? It'll probably never happen.

Christ, you folks should read more Pat Bucha(sh)ananana.

Have we all forgotten about the Black Sea and the range of cruise missiles?

Does anybody think Abkhazia is vulnerable to an amphibious assault?

Yeah, Obama won't go all Patton with Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan.

But McCain isn't penciling in lovefests either.

McCain won't ask anything more from you than was asked of him: part of a draft army and 5 years as a POW.

...

Since nobody here would listen to Rush, I caught 20 minutes after work. Rush thinks Palin supplants Hillary. Uh, right. Rush also thinks we can't afford Obama. I'm opposed to almost any government spending, but I'd rather see $1 billion pissed away on treating sick Americans or alternative evergy than on Iraq.

[camoor]

It's his response to JolietJake's.

All in the name of humor.

http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4796271&postcount=4

Thanks. I figured as much but knew there was more to it...

[JJSP]

From what I've read on her in the last ten minutes, she's got little to no experience outside of local government and governing Alaska for two years. She's also all for overturning Roe v Wade and in favor of drilling in Alaska (something I'm sure her own state is all for).

This'll be fun.

[dafoomie]

More or less. Staying in the middle east or leaving ten minutes ago, none of that, as big as it is, will really change the size, structure, and direction of the Navy.
Actually...

The neocons have this notion that wars between the US and other major powers are over, that the military should be geared for asymmetric warfare against rogue states and terrorists. They think that boots on the ground are more important and that expensive equipment such as ships and fighters are unnecessary. This is what Rumsfeld and Cheney are all about. They don't believe in significant air or sea power, they're not going to spend the money on the Air Force or the Navy.

On the other hand, Bill Clinton basically gave them whatever they wanted. So if you're in favor of big Navy and Air Force programs, you might just need to vote Democrat.

[trq]

In the words of a better internet smart-ass than I:

"Jesus tap-dancing Christ. If McCain wanted a former beauty queen with no experience and a criminal investigation on her record, I don’t know why he didn’t just pick his own wife."

[evanft]

Wow, talk about fucking pandering and a half.

Oh, and BTW, she's a fucking retard "teach the controversy" creationist. (http://scienceblogs.com/afarensis/2006/10/27/intelligent_design_and_the_ala/) Basically, she buys into the stupidest, most illogical political thinking possible; social conservatism.

[62t]

People keep saying VP debateS, but I think there is only one of those. I hope I'm wrong as I really expect Biden to own her.

Yeah and most people dont really change their votes because a VP didnt do well in a debate. John Kerry didnt lose because Dick Cheney owned John Edwards in a debate

[dafoomie]

Scary that she could be President if McCain does not exceed the average American male life expectancy. Biden could at least competently serve out the remainder of a term.

[dmaul1114]

Yeah and most people dont really change their votes because a VP didnt do well in a debate. John Kerry didnt lose because Dick Cheney owned John Edwards in a debate

True, but again it could be different for true swing voters who are still on the fence this time given:

a) McCain is 72, so you have someone with no experience in national, much less international, matters an old fart's heartbeat away from the oval office.

b) Obama is black and there are still a ton of racist nut jobs out there.

Point being, for people truly on the fence, they pay more attention to the VPs than in the past.

Won't matter at all for people firmly in Obama or McCain's camps of course.

[KingBroly]

True, but again it could be different for true swing voters who are still on the fence this time given:

a) McCain is 72, so you have someone with no experience in national, much less international, matters an old fart's heartbeat away from the oval office.

b) Obama is black and there are still a ton of racist nut jobs out there.

Point being, for people truly on the fence, they pay more attention to the VPs than in the past.

Won't matter at all for people firmly in Obama or McCain's camps of course.

Well, that's what's interesting here, isn't it? You've got Biden on the far left, and Palin on the far right. One's old, one's young. Obama and McCain picked their polar opposites in terms of experience and age here. But one thing McCain's got here is that she is a wild card.

[dmaul1114]

I don't know that I'd put Biden on the far left.....I don't think he's consitently that liberal to get that designation.

I don't think he's any further to the left than Obama, where as Palin seems to be a good bit further to the right than McCain--in effort to find someone to sure up his support among evangelicals etc.

But she's definitely a wild card there's no way to know what to expect from someone who's only political experience is in frickin' Alaska. A completely isolated state with a tiny population--tied with DC with fewest electoral votes at 3. There's no telling how she'll do under the biggest interntational spotlight in politics.

[Koggit]

Check this out: http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=26179

The Hillary feminists all going McCain... seriously, there's hardly any dissent, wade through that thread.

I'm no longer certain Obama will be our next president.

[KingBroly]

I don't know that I'd put Biden on the far left.....I don't think he's consitently that liberal to get that designation.

I don't think he's any further to the left than Obama, where as Palin seems to be a good bit further to the right than McCain--in effort to find someone to sure up his support among evangelicals etc.

But she's definitely a wild card there's no way to know what to expect from someone who's only political experience is in frickin' Alaska. A completely isolated state with a tiny population--tied with DC with fewest electoral votes at 3. There's no telling how she'll do under the biggest interntational spotlight in politics.

Well...Biden has said some things. Some out there things that put him in that light.

[dmaul1114]

Well...Biden has said some things. Some out there things that put him in that light.

Everyone says some crazy shit from time to time.

His overall actions, voting record etc. don't cast him in that light. And actions speak louder than words.

I mean, you could call him conservative since he said that you have to have a slight indian accent to shop at a 7/11 or Duncan Donunts. That's not a far left comment. :D

People say stupid shit. I certainly say more than my fair share!

[thrustbucket]

That's just absurd. The size, scope, and power of government, especially the power of the executive branch, should make you far more frightened of government than Obama's health care plan.
I certainly am disgusted and frightened by the empowering of the executive branch, which are not Republican core ideals, and never have been. To attribute such loathsome regression in the government to one particular parties goals is just silly. It's far more complicated than that, with far more to implicate than just the unpopular party of the day. And I think you know that.

As far as the Obama health plan, I'm still trying to understand it's specifics, as I can find them...

The last 8 years have taught me that the genuine fascist steps this government, again particularly the executive branch, has taken is far more frightening than McCarthy-era fears of "SOCIALISM!!!"
The last 8 years have taught me the same thing. The difference being that you attribute it to Republicans. I attribute it to neo-cons. And they aren't the same thing. There are fascistic elements in both parties, with just different paths to the same goal. Socialism, to me, is fascism. It just happens to be the flavor of fascism that's highly preferable to more people than conservative fascism.

The fact that you are legally being wiretapped, and that you may be detained indefinitely, with no charges being brought up against you, no legal recourse, no need for a body of proof - the double murder of habeas corpus and miranda - should put to rest any sort of "I'm scared of the government getting too large so I guess I'll vote Republican" arguments you have to offer.
I don't make any such arguments. Again, the difference between you and I are that you seriously believe that the those are all inherent "Republican" goals that Democrats are free from and fight against. I don't.

You love to list all things evil that the government is responsible for and attribute it to one particular party, which makes you a perfect AM radio talk show call-in candidate. I just don't buy that is the case. It just so happens that one is an easy scape-goat having 8 years of power in the executive branch.

You may as well say "I support responsible government spending, so I vote Republican." ;)
I probably won't vote Republican this year. Although I'm undecided.

[trq]

Check this out: http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=26179

The Hillary feminists all going McCain... seriously, there's hardly any dissent, wade through that thread.

I'm no longer certain Obama will be our next president.

You know ... I have to question some of that. To a degree, the PUMA's exist. But we all know how common guerrilla marketing is; there's no doubt that political action committees and "grass roots" net organizations engage in the same practice. I can't prove it, but I suspect some of those posters are coming from the same place Rush did when he was backing Hillary -- that is, conniving BS-ville.

[Koggit]

You know ... I have to question some of that. To a degree, the PUMA's exist. But we all know how common guerrilla marketing is; there's no doubt that political action committees and "grass roots" net organizations engage in the same practice. I can't prove it, but I suspect some of those posters are coming from the same place Rush did when he was backing Hillary -- that is, conniving BS-ville.

It's possible... it'd be interesting to look at posting history of them to see if the change to McCain was recent (Palin announcement), but it seems they no longer allow unregistered users to view the forum, and I'm not going to register. They sure closed their doors quickly...

[dmaul1114]

You know ... I have to question some of that. To a degree, the PUMA's exist. But we all know how common guerrilla marketing is; there's no doubt that political action committees and "grass roots" net organizations engage in the same practice. I can't prove it, but I suspect some of those posters are coming from the same place Rush did when he was backing Hillary -- that is, conniving BS-ville.

I just can't fathom most feminists voting for McCain. Much less now that his VP is strongly pro life and her sole experience is a bit of time as a mayor in small town and less than 2 years as a governor in a very anti-gay state.

Just trying to reconcile that is enough to make my head explode from the resounding cognitive dissonance.

But I'm sure there are some wackos out there that will vote against their principles just to put a woman in white house as VP.

Just like they're are wackos that will vote agains their principles just because they won't vote for a black man, or conversely some blacks who will vote for Obama because he's black but may not like his ideas much.

[thrustbucket]

"True Feminist"?

What exactly is a "True Feminist?"

When I think of an example of a feminist, one of the people I think of is Dr. Laura. And she's pro-life. I think she's kind of a fruit, but I think she's done an immense of amount of good for women-kind too.

Are you saying that "True" feminism can't contain pro-life philosophy?

[dmaul1114]

I don't want to get into that debate, but to me most feminists (maybe true was a poor choice of words, original post edited) are pro choice, pro lesbian rights, and generally are quite liberal.

There are of course exceptions to the rule, especially with abortion.

[Dead of Knight]

trq's new sig: :rofl::rofl::rofl:

[thrustbucket]

I don't want to get into that debate, but to me most feminists (maybe true was a poor choice of words, original post edited) are pro choice, pro lesbian rights, and generally are quite liberal.

There are of course exceptions to the rule, especially with abortion.

I don't see how sexual orientation is or can be a feminist issue, but fair enough.

[Koggit]

And feminists aren't necessarily economically liberal... that's a crass, borderline sexist generalization. Socially liberal only in the sense that they reject a woman's traditional role in family.

[trq]

I certainly am disgusted and frightened by the empowering of the executive branch, which are not Republican core ideals, and never have been.

That's like saying "family values" aren't Republican core ideals because they weren't in the 1860 party platform under which Lincoln was elected. Like it or not, platforms evolve, and the Republicans, since at least 2000 (and, frankly, at least 1995 in reality), have been "Texas"-style Republicans.

To attribute such loathsome regression in the government to one particular parties goals is just silly. It's far more complicated than that, with far more to implicate than just the unpopular party of the day. And I think you know that.

I don't make any such arguments. Again, the difference between you and I are that you seriously believe that the those are all inherent "Republican" goals that Democrats are free from and fight against. I don't.

You love to list all things evil that the government is responsible for and attribute it to one particular party, which makes you a perfect AM radio talk show call-in candidate. I just don't buy that is the case. It just so happens that one is an easy scape-goat having 8 years of power in the executive branch.

Sorry dude -- we had habeus corpus under Clinton. We didn't have secret torture prisons under Carter. If these are things that matter to you, you need to accept that they *didn't* come around under Democrats; that the people who did them were Republicans, and elected by Republicans, and they made NO secrets of what their rule (and I do mean "rule") was going to be like.

From the Texas Republican Party Platform of 2000:

You believe in checks and balances?

"Congress should be urged to exercise its authority under Article III, Sections 1 and 2 of the United States Constitution, and should withhold appellate jurisdiction of the Supreme Court in such cases involving abortion, religious freedom, and all rights guaranteed under the Bill of Rights."

They don't.

You believe in individual rights, like privacy?

"The party opposes the decriminalization of sodomy....We publicly rebuke judges Chief Justice Murphy and John Anderson, who ruled that the 100 year-old Texas sodomy law is unconstitutional, and ask that all members of the Republican Party of Texas oppose their re-election."

They don't.

And on . . . and on . . . and on.

Regardless of whatever big government, philandering, waffling, kick-back taking Democrats may be guilty of, it's NOT the laundry list of crimes from the past ten-plus years.

[trq]

trq's new sig: :rofl::rofl::rofl:

I figured since JolietJake and everyone else were getting sexy new political sigs, I should too. :)

[thrustbucket]

I sort of agree with your first example, as it seems to me that "checks and balances" today more and more means "let's never stop debating the issue, so nothing ever solidifies". But only where certain things like the bill of rights is concerned. The inherent danger of any Democracy is indefinite lag time for justice and governing.

But I get your point. You don't like Republicans, especially Texas style republicans. Fine. But I know people that consider themselves Republicans, that don't believe in or endorse your "laundry list of crimes". I guess they are the Pat Buchanan Republicans, lost and confused.

It makes myself kind of sick to always feel like I am coming close to defending Republicans here, and I am not, because like most of you, they sicken me. But from my point of view, I feel like if this were the 1940's, I am standing in a crowd constantly demonizing the evils of Hitler while deifying Stalin with the logic that "at least it's not Hitler". It's confusing, frustrating, and depressing.

[ananag112]

Hmm...McCain really respects women

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLQGWpRVA7o

[Jesus_S_Preston]

.....Who?

You know, I'm honestly wondering if McCain's line of thinking in this was "Hmmm, Obama's black, so he must appeal to black people. How can I appeal to a minority as a rich white guy?....I GOT IT, SOME CHICK!"

As a guy who barely follows politics, this was EXACTLY my thought when I saw this.

[Koggit]

Hmm...McCain really respects women

I'm not too sure what your point / the video's point is... that he's sexist? What someone says to McCain doesn't say of McCain...

[mykevermin]

Regarding the Hillary forum and the "PUMAs" acceptance of McCain - if you think, for a moment, that this isn't part of a Republican campaign scheme, you're a fool and a mark.

To use internet parlance, I call shenanigans.

It's simply too clean. WAY too clean. That all the talk was branding the "maverick," nothing talked about policies, everything centered around simply voting for a woman - and, most clearly, NOT A SINGLE PERSON BROUGHT UP PLAIN'S PRO-LIFE STANCE?!?!?!?!?!

If you buy into this as something other than poorly scuplted viral marketing for the GOP (and, look, you're smarter than the press, so if they believe it, that doesn't mean you have to), I really feel bad for you. There are better examples of viral marketing out there that were less obvious than this, and were still found out. (http://blog.wired.com/games/2006/12/sonys_failed_ps.html)

C'mon, you're grown ups thinking that an entire of cadre of women would immediately and unquestionably flock to a candidate whose views stand in the face of everything they believe in, just because she's a woman? Please. Have some sense.

[cochesecochese]

Well at least she doesn't slather on the makeup like a trollo...

I'd smash her and her daughter both. No votey vote for them though!

[Koggit]

Regarding the Hillary forum and the "PUMAs" acceptance of McCain - if you think, for a moment, that this isn't part of a Republican campaign scheme, you're a fool and a mark.

To use internet parlance, I call shenanigans.

It's simply too clean. WAY too clean. That all the talk was branding the "maverick," nothing talked about policies, everything centered around simply voting for a woman - and, most clearly, NOT A SINGLE PERSON BROUGHT UP PLAIN'S PRO-LIFE STANCE?!?!?!?!?!

If you buy into this as something other than poorly scuplted viral marketing for the GOP (and, look, you're smarter than the press, so if they believe it, that doesn't mean you have to), I really feel bad for you. There are better examples of viral marketing out there that were less obvious than this, and were still found out. (http://blog.wired.com/games/2006/12/sonys_failed_ps.html)

C'mon, you're grown ups thinking that an entire of cadre of women would immediately and unquestionably flock to a candidate whose views stand in the face of everything they believe in, just because she's a woman? Please. Have some sense.

You overestimate the GOP a bit.. check out their post counts and join dates. 100's of users spending 6+ months and 100,000's of posts... that's a bit much, that's beyond astroturfing.

[dank]

im sure her being a "hockey mom" and "pta leader" will help pay off when dealing with foreign affairs. also, teaching creationism in school? what a novel idea.

[Mr. 420]

I need to play some metal gear and forget about all this.
And the Hail Mary falls incomplete!!!
Not even all the christians and dumb women can help the repubs.

[ananag112]

I'm not too sure what your point / the video's point is... that he's sexist? What someone says to McCain doesn't say of McCain...

I am not too sure either. MSNBC just pointed it out for some reason saying it is interesting that he picked a woman for the VP when he said this thing about Clinton. I don't really see the connection though. Thought I would post it anyway as its sort of interesting.

[Koggit]

teaching creationism in school?

"teaching" is a strong word

In an interview Thursday, Palin said she meant only to say that discussion of alternative views should be allowed to arise in Alaska classrooms:

"I don't think there should be a prohibition against debate if it comes up in class. It doesn't have to be part of the curriculum."

She added that, if elected, she would not push the state Board of Education to add such creation-based alternatives to the state's required curriculum.

She's right.

[trq]

I sort of agree with your first example, as it seems to me that "checks and balances" today more and more means "let's never stop debating the issue, so nothing ever solidifies". But only where certain things like the bill of rights is concerned. The inherent danger of any Democracy is indefinite lag time for justice and governing.

But I get your point. You don't like Republicans, especially Texas style republicans. Fine. But I know people that consider themselves Republicans, that don't believe in or endorse your "laundry list of crimes". I guess they are the Pat Buchanan Republicans, lost and confused.

Well, I don't think core Republican positions are good ideas usually, but I wouldn't say I don't like Republicans -- I don't know them all. ;)

But seriously: because he felt it would let him hold on to more of his money, my dad has voted Republican my entire life ... until 2004. I was a bit surprised by this, so I asked him why he made the switch, especially when Kerry wasn't exactly the epitome of charisma and I grew up in Jersey, which is pretty famous for its local democratic corruption. What he said amounted to, "I'd rather be proud of my country than have lower taxes." So I know that not all Republicans are Bushies who just love trampling on the Constitution.

But what I'm trying to draw the line between are the guys like my dad or Buchanan, who today *praised* Obama's speech as "magnificent," and ... I don't even know what to call it -- the people who just want to chalk Bush up as an anomaly, a rogue politico, rather than a product of the party that produced him, that's been in place for years, and is *still* taking once honorable guys like McCain and twisting them until they can't pander enough to the religious right and big business. And all this is important because the minute people absolve themselves of the responsibility of having voted for a man who did *exactly* what he said he was going to do and *completely* fucked up the country in the process, it's going to happen again.

It makes myself kind of sick to always feel like I am coming close to defending Republicans here, and I am not, because like most of you, they sicken me. But from my point of view, I feel like if this were the 1940's, I am standing in a crowd constantly demonizing the evils of Hitler while deifying Stalin with the logic that "at least it's not Hitler". It's confusing, frustrating, and depressing.

Well ... trying to work outside predefined lines can be tough, I know -- people can have difficulty understanding that condemning something doesn't necessarily imply support for something else -- but it's worth the effort, in my experience.

As for the Hitler/Stalin example, I'll just say that I take your point, but I hope you understand why it's an imperfect example.

[dank]

"teaching" is a strong word

In an interview Thursday, Palin said she meant only to say that discussion of alternative views should be allowed to arise in Alaska classrooms:

"I don't think there should be a prohibition against debate if it comes up in class. It doesn't have to be part of the curriculum."

She added that, if elected, she would not push the state Board of Education to add such creation-based alternatives to the state's required curriculum.


She's right.

right about what? where would this debate come up? in biology class? teaching a religious idea in a biology class? young kids arent going to bring this up in debate. its ppl who want to push there religious doctrine on kids who will be doing this. teachers.

where it would come up in debate by students is in a college setting in a class about religion. where ppl can make up their own minds, and probably have.

does not belong in a setting with young impressionable kids. they should not have to taught any religion in public school. creationism is a religious idea. not biology. seperation of church and state was a founding idea, but not if this religious right wants to make the us a nation of god, not reason.

[trq]

You overestimate the GOP a bit.. check out their post counts and join dates. 100's of users spending 6+ months and 100,000's of posts... that's a bit much, that's beyond astroturfing.

Not to overstate my opinion on this, but I know a thing or two about guerrilla marketing, and if movie studios and game companies can flood message boards with dozens of users, three or four months ahead of time, resulting in tens of thousands of posts -- and they can and do -- political entities can beat that by 150%, easy.

She's right.

Well, to the degree that we allow Robert Browning poems to be part of the "debate" in physics, or the conjugation of Spanish verbs to take up gym class time, sure. Otherwise, I think it's perfectly valid to say to a student who has brought up philosophy/theology/creative writing in your science class, "This isn't the time or place."

[Aleryn]

Dear gawd, it's the president from Battlestar Galactica.

[Thomas96]

her PTA experience and hockey mom experience should combat well against's Obama's community organizing skills.


Damn, I feel so sorry for Charlie Chris (gov of FL), he's probably thinking - "I married this bitch for nothing."

[Koggit]

Skepticism is much more crucial to shaping a scientific mind than any scientific "knowledge" could ever be.

People of faith needs to be skeptical of their beliefs and people of science need to be skeptical of what we call fact. Creationism and other religious believes are great stepping stones into this discussion, because nearly all kids have a strong myopic belief (usually that of their parents). They either believe there is a god or there isn't. They either believe we were created or we weren't. They need to be taught, and science class is the setting, that faith is detrimental to progression regardless of what that faith may be, when trying to determine fact. They need to be taught that some people believe this, other people believe that, but regardless of beliefs it's important that conclusions be reached based on evidence, not predetermined and considered confirmed by a lack of evidence.

To say questions won't arise is complete bullshit. If you're like me and your parents told you God crated Adam and Eve from which we've descended, when your teacher tells you we've slowly changed over the years from single-celled organisms to fish to mammals to humans you're going to immediately wonder, like I did as a child, where Adam and Eve factors in. Were Adam and Eve single-celled organisms? Is the book wrong? What's going on?

The point is questions will arise and it's absolutely ridiculous to bar teachers from discussing it when it's the perfect opportunity to explain the importance of an open mind and skepticism, whether that message is being picked up by science-based kids who need to think critically about their science or to faith-based kids who need to think critically about their religion.

Not to overstate my opinion on this, but I know a thing or two about guerrilla marketing, and if movie studios and game companies can flood message boards with dozens of users, three or four months ahead of time, resulting in tens of thousands of posts -- and they can and do -- political entities can beat that by 150%, easy.

Oh come on now, this is just ridiculous... those same users campaigned hardcore for Hillary and sold Hillary merchandise (bumper stickers, etc) and you're going to call them GOP plants?

Whatever... believe whatever the hell you want.

It's kind of ironic that my post focuses on praising the virtue of skepticism followed by exasperation at conspiracy theorist level skepticism... but oh well.

[KingBroly]

So...will Obama challenge Palin to a hockey shootout? They both play basketball (she at least played), but can Obama play hockey?

I think the comment about the creationism debate was if the question was brought up in a classroom, it shouldn't be ignored. Sticking the curriculum in any subject isn't necessarily learning.

[Msut77]

Anyone making bets on whether she will still be on the ticket in a week?

[sgs89]

Haven't read through this entire thread, but, to me, this is extremely evocative of Bush's selection of Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court a few years back. And we all know how well that one ended.

What a bad selection. The more I think about it, the more I think it could have been the mistake that ensures Obama the White House.

[elprincipe]

Haven't read through this entire thread, but, to me, this is extremely evocative of Bush's selection of Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court a few years back. And we all know how well that one ended.

How so? Surely you don't mean that both are women? If he had nominated Cindy McCain as VP, yes, I would agree with you. Or maybe a name that was seriously mentioned, one of his advisers, Carly Fiorina. But how the hell does Palin fit in the cronyism mold? You obviously don't know enough about her or are just making a blind partisan attack.

[bmachine]

From http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/08/palin-scrubs-her-own-wikipedia.php

Sarah Palin scrubs her own wikipedia page!

By S. L. (http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/profile/boo_lala) - August 29, 2008, 6:32PM

NPR (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=94118849) just had a story about a flurry of mostly-positive edits that occurred to Sarah Palin's wikipedia page, 45 minutes before her VP candidacy was leaked--including edits that removed/downplayed references to the brother-in-law scandal. The author of those edits? An anonymous user with the handle "YoungTrig." Trig--I'm sure just coincidentally--is the name of Palin's infant son.

The NPR story noted that editing your own page on wikipedia is considered a "no-no," according to their terms of use.

Audio of the NPR story here (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=94118849).

Hmm. I guess we can expect the kind of wonderful transparency and honesty from the McCain/Palin administration that we have seen for the past eight years. I'm amazed that someone in the McCain camp knows how to get on the internet.

[rumblebear]

Palin is a superb choice and has quite an impressive background. As much I disliked Bush and what his party did, this sealed the deal and I'll definitely be voting for her and McCain this fall. Obama is just too unqualified and is treating the Presidency as if it's some sort of high school Prom King position reserved to the most popular kid. And those of you complaining about Palin's experience are hypocrites considering Obama, who's on top of his party's ticket, has far less experience and accomplishments than she does.

Let's see, Palin is currently a very, very popular (80-90% approval rating and has numerous accomplishments) Governor and has been:
-The head of the Alaskan National Guard
-Mayor of Wasilla, Alaska
-City Council
-City Manager
-The President of the Alaskan Council of Mayors
-Ethics Commissioner of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission (exposed corruption in her OWN party)

Compared to Obama, who has been what? A state senator and a newly elected U.S senator 4 years ago (who spent most of the time running for President the moment he got elected instead of doing actual productive work)

With these in mind, Palin actually has far more governing and management experience than McCain, Obama, and Biden. There's a reason why Governors are considered to be far more qualified than Senators to be U.S President.

[Thomas96]

Palin is ridiculous, I just saw a video of her (News) where she was saying that she felt the US was ready for a woman president, however she won't support her because she's on the left. She admitted that she felt guilty for knowing that she was not going to vote for Hilary. I find it amazing that any of Hilary supporters would give Palin their 18 million votes, while knowing full well that she wouldn't even give their candidate her one vote, even when she knew how important it was to women. The fact is, this woman is loyal to her party and not her values. What ever position the GOP needs her to be in, that's position she'll confirm and contort to.

[Koggit]

Palin is ridiculous, I just saw a video of her (News) where she was saying that she felt the US was ready for a woman president, however she won't support her because she's on the left. She admitted that she felt guilty for knowing that she was not going to vote for Hilary. I find it amazing that any of Hilary supporters would give Palin their 18 million votes, while knowing full well that she wouldn't even give their candidate her one vote, even when she knew how important it was to women. The fact is, this woman is loyal to her party and not her values. What ever position the GOP needs her to be in, that's position she'll confirm and contort to.

You make no sense... saying she'd like a woman to be president but can't vote for Hillary because she's too leftist is staying loyal to her values. What would be completely wrong is if she said "I don't think the democratic platform is good for America but I will vote for Hillary anyway because she's a woman"...

You're very, very confused.

[trq]

Oh come on now, this is just ridiculous... those same users campaigned hardcore for Hillary and sold Hillary merchandise (bumper stickers, etc) and you're going to call them GOP plants?

Whatever... believe whatever the hell you want.

It's kind of ironic that my post focuses on praising the virtue of skepticism followed by exasperation at conspiracy theorist level skepticism... but oh well.

Good job on the reading comprehension.

Not to overstate my opinion on this, but I know a thing or two about guerrilla marketing...

Yeah. Let me try this again: I'm not saying it definitely IS the case, but your argument that it ISN'T because the scale is too great is uninformed. I have some experience in this area as a freelancer, and the numbers I mentioned above are correct -- at one point, there was a profile on the IGN message boards that had managed to rack up 45,000 posts over the course of about four and a half months, because multiple marketers used the account. Now if you're going to sit there and suggest that the same kind of people who hire people to do, say, this http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=93465286 haven't thought of flooding the message boards of political rivals with volunteers parroting a simple message, you're uncharacteristically naive. Some are the real deal, I'm sure. But *NO* dissenting opinions? That's fishy.

[Koggit]

"Not to overstate my opinion on this, but I know a thing or two about..." usually means "Trust me, I'm an expert on..." Kind of like how "No offense, but..." means "I know this statement is really offensive, but..." or "Not to be a dick, but..." means "Prepare for me to be a dick: ..."

Sorry for misunderstanding.

[Msut77]

trq

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/06/AR2008080603589.html

[trq]

Palin is a superb choice and has quite an impressive background. As much I disliked Bush and what his party did, this sealed the deal and I'll definitely be voting for her and McCain this fall. Obama is just too unqualified and is treating the Presidency as if it's some sort of high school Prom King position reserved to the most popular kid. And those of you complaining about Palin's experience are hypocrites considering Obama, who's on top of his party's ticket, has far less experience and accomplishments than she does.

Let's see, Palin is currently a very, very popular (80-90% approval rating and has numerous accomplishments) Governor and has been:
-The head of the Alaskan National Guard
-Mayor of Wasilla, Alaska
-City Council
-City Manager
-The President of the Alaskan Council of Mayors
-Ethics Commissioner of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission (exposed corruption in her OWN party)

Compared to Obama, who has been what? A state senator and a newly elected U.S senator 4 years ago (who spent most of the time running for President the moment he got elected instead of doing actual productive work)

With these in mind, Palin actually has far more governing and management experience than McCain, Obama, and Biden. There's a reason why Governors are considered to be far more qualified than Senators to be U.S President.

Sorry, but six years as the mayor of a small town followed by 18 months as governor doesn't make you more prepared to be president than eight years in a state senate and four in the US senate. The "experience" question is open and shut: She has less than anyone else in the race by far. (I mean, "Ooh, she was President of the Alaskan Council of Mayors! She'll totally think up a great health-care plan!") It may be smart to run a woman in the hopes of picking up a disaffected Clinton supporter or three, but they've completely shut themselves off from addressing Obama's "inexperience" ever again. Then again, maybe I'm wrong, and lots of people think being on the city council is like sitting in on the foreign relations committee or calling Georgia to talk about their invasion. "Russia is right across from Alaska," after all.

[GuilewasNK]

The fact that she's both unknown and also a woman certainly does an excellent job, in the short term, at silencing the post-DNCC-go-Obama feeling.

It's strategically brilliant, really. The news cycle is going to drop the DNCC like a bad habit and focus on this for the weekend and leading into the Republican Convention.

I'm interested to find out more about her before making a call.

I agree with your post. First time in a long time things have been interesting on both sides.

[trq]

"Not to overstate my opinion on this, but I know a thing or two about..." usually means "Trust me, I'm an expert on..." Kind of like how "No offense, but..." means "I know this statement is really offensive, but..." or "Not to be a dick, but..." means "Prepare for me to be a dick: ..."

Sorry for misunderstanding.

De nada. I should have phrased it more clearly.

trq

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/06/AR2008080603589.html

Huh. Interesting. I haven't really been following that sort of thing -- I just knew the business angle, and figured the stakes being higher than, say, "Batman Begins" or "Sudeki" doing well meant the practice would ramp up correspondingly. Thanks.

[Unickuta]

Palin is a superb choice and has quite an impressiv