2008 Republican Convention Thread

[mykevermin]

Am I the only one watching this?

[SpazX]

I'll watch the daily show about it...

[mykevermin]

Man, I'm gonna kill that guy yelling "AAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYUHHHHHHHHH!" after every fucking sentence.

He sounds like a doofus.

[JolietJake]

Yesterday my cable box kept switching to C-SPAN which was covering it, i think i managed to accidentally see a couple seconds of it.

[speedracer]

Isn't Lieberman on tonight?

We've been drinking every time we see an African-American in the crowd. I've taken exactly one sip so far.

[KingBroly]

Yeah, so was Thompson and Bush. I only hear the very end of Lieberman's speech, and it didn't sound too loud. But it's to be expected, as my brother said 'I like Lieberman, but there's a lot of hesitation'.
I'm watching the MSNBC coverage, and the guy next to Brokaw made probably the best points: That's that more people are probably going to watch tomorrow than Thursday for Palin's speech (which is kinda what I've thought). Also that Palin does distract the message a bit, but I kinda think that'll take a backseat soon. Don't know how soon though.

[elprincipe]

Thompson clearly made the best speech tonight. The crowd liked what he was saying the whole way through. Makes you wonder why he never sounded like that during his own candidacy.

[level1online]

Am I the only one watching this?

Just admit it. You're a closet neo-conservative.

It's like high school... you want to hang out with the cool kids, you want to be part of the winning team... but you just can't find it in your heart to tell your band geek friends to fuck off and get a life.

I'll watch the daily show about it...

Comedy....

it's the best way to flaunt tyranny in your face...

first it gets you to laugh at it...

then it gets you to accept it...

[dmaul1114]

I think it was really stupid to have Bush speak at the RNC (even via satellite). The DNC did a great job of painting the McCain=Bush picture with out the "more of the same" talk, and this just gave the Obama campaign more ammo:


The Obama campaign also used a short speech delivered by President Bush via satellite to once again tie McCain to the unpopular president, as it has attempted to do throughout this election season.
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"Tonight, George Bush enthusiastically passed the torch to the man who's earned it by voting with him 90 percent of the time and who will continue this president's legacy for the next four years: his disastrous economic policies, his foreign policy that hasn't made us safer and his misguided war in Iraq that's costing us $10 billion a month," Obama campaign manager David Plouffe said.

"The man George Bush needs may be John McCain, but the change America needs is Barack Obama."

Not that I'm complaining, it's nice to see the republicans making repeated stupid campaign mistakes after suffering through Gore and Kerry's terrible campaigns.

[Mr. 420]

I feel bad for everyone at the convention.
I personally like the drill now hard hats.
Those guys are awesome.

[Mike23]

I will watch tonight to see Sarah Palin's speech. If she does an effective, compassionate, and most importantly believeable mea culpa on a lot of the issues, the American public will forgive whatever perceived follies she may have committed.

I compare it to what many politicians say about drugs and drinking - when they admit it and work to fix it, it's a non-issue. When it's ignored, it's a huge issue.

[Chase]

Yes, I will also tune in for Palin's speech. Like how some people watch NASCAR for possible accidents.*






*I do not support NASCAR or recommend anyone watch NASCAR. I am not responsible for anyone who winds up watching NASCAR due to this post.

[mykevermin]

One thing I have to say: the media narrative is extraordinarily powerful.

With the pick of Sarah Palin as the VP candidate, and with much of the media reporting last week, we're lead to believe that the Democratic party is fractured right down the middle, and suffering from a wound caused by the primaries that won't yet heal by the election.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS HAVING TWO CONVENTIONS AT THE SAME TIME IN THE SAME CITY.

Ron Paul is having his own convention, after reporting on CNN that he was allowed at the Republican convention, but only under limited and very controlled conditions.

So he's throwing his own party.

Additionally, the beleaguered Tom DeLay shows up at the convention and causes a shitstorm because the controversy and negativity surrounding his corruption make him a persona non grata. Who wants to be seen on the front page of the paper standing next to someone that corrupt, and expect to help the election?

The POTUS phoned in a 9 minute speech via satellite, unlike Clinton, who was in person, and spoke favorably and passionately about Obama's qualifications.

So the GOP are acting defensive, walking on eggshells, and just making shit up (e.g., "Sarah Palin was vetted/has experience").

Meanwhile, the media narrative isn't focusing on the "fractured" implications of a party having separate conventions, or the fact that some people merely showing up at the GOP convention and causing problems - yet the "party split" narrative centered around two people - Bill and Hillary Clinton - who spoke in high terms and offered unequivocal praise for the very person they're supposed to be opposed to.

What gives, man? Why is the "liberal msm" not acting very liberal? Or even-handed, for that matter?

[lilboo]

Will Tootsie be speakin? ;)

[mykevermin]

I think she may be worn out from the post-convention afterparty that featured music from "Hookers & Blow."

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/video/97277/hookers_and_blow:_welcome_to_the_rnc/

I wish I were joking. Actually, no, I don't. That's too brilliant.

[lilboo]

:rofl: oh shit

[KingBroly]

So do you get the majority of your news from TV media coverage? If you do, I honestly question your sanity. I find all TV media full of squabbling and flashy imagery, so it really doesn't appeal to me. But it pretty much is all tv stations do. Controversy through buzz words, flashy images, not much real substance.

[thrustbucket]

I'm proud of Ron Paul. Hopefully this is a seed for a real revolution, or at the very least a new party.

[JolietJake]

Yeah, the name of that band had me rolling. "Hookers and Blow" sounds like a George Bush/ Bill Clinton house party.

[speedracer]

I just hope it's more interesting than the Joementum I sat through last night. Palin and Rudy in the same night should be fun.

Good god, Carly makes me want to throw my TV out the window. The poor schlubs in attendance can't even bring themselves to clap for her.

[Chase]

Mitt Romney looks like the father from, the movie, Beethoven.

[dafoomie]

"Its time for the party of big ideas, not the party of big brother..." Its time for Democrats?

They're bringing back Reaganomics?

The party of the Patriot Act, of domestic warentless wiretapping, of national security letters, of eliminating habeas corpus, isn't the party of Big Brother?

[Mr. 420]

The first lady I saw speak tonight should have been shot or somebody should have at least thrown a tomato at her. My friends put your country first, before your party, before your family, before you.

[Mike23]

Mitt Romney's speaking ability has grown enormously in the last few months. There's no doubt he's running again if McCain loses.

[Ikohn4ever]

saw an ad for this movie while watching the convention
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/443/mccainpalingv6.jpg

[speedracer]

Huckabee said that Obama brought back European ideals that are threatening to America.

I lol'd.

[KingBroly]

ikohn4ever, that's pretty disgusting.

[Ikohn4ever]

ikohn4ever, that's pretty disgusting.


its a joke

[KingBroly]

Still disgusting.

[mykevermin]

The "USA! USA! USA!" chants are interesting. Makes me think of Hacksaw Jim Duggan.

Also makes me think of the kind of pablum that comes out of the right wing that implicitly suggests that anyone who isn't Republican isn't a "patriot" or "REAL American."

9iu11iani is talking now. I wish that, like the Democrats who take on enemies that exist (the abuse of power by Republicans, the mistreatment and disinterest in the working classes by the Republicans, the overt favortism for the wealthy by the Republicans), Republicans would identify genuine enemies, instead of fuzzy concepts like "the left wing media" and "liberal Hollywood." Because, trust me, those people who are actually in existing positions of power are far more dangerous than this silly idea that the people who make "Shrek" or "Juno" are a threat to you, your family, and your livelihood.

And yet some of you people BELIEVE that (1) "liberal Hollywood" is real, and (2) it is a genuine threat to you and your country.

Christ.

EDIT: By the by, kids, Thomas is your friend.

http://thomas.loc.gov/

It's an idiot-proof website, easy to search, easy to navigate. Take a look at what Obama has done in the Senate, what McCain has done in the Senate, and what Biden has done in the Senate.

Please do. Please. Select both "McCain" and "Obama" under the "browse bills by sponsor" section. Tell me who is a do-nothing, and who's asleep at the wheel. Also, keep in mind their relative senate experiences in years.

:lol:

EDIT2: That background they're using for 9iu11iani pisses me off so much. How anybody on the face of the earth could have respect for that motherfucker is beyond me.

[Mr. 420]

Rudy is perhaps more disgusting than G Dubb after tonight.

[mykevermin]

I've got a drinking game for the convention.

Buy a bottle of liquor. Get the $2 airplane size.

Pour a shot and drink it for every nonwhite person you see at the convention.

Let me know if you drink it all.

[lilboo]

I've got a drinking game for the convention.

Buy a bottle of liquor. Get the $2 airplane size.

Pour a shot and drink it for every nonwhite person you see at the convention.

Let me know if you drink it all.

BRB ::coma::

[mykevermin]

9iu11iani's existence strains credibility.

Saying Sarah Palin has more experience than Barack Obama and Joe Biden combined should make you embarrassed that he got a prominent speaking role at the convention centered around the party you support.

Calling that a "load of shit" gives it a trillion times more credibility than it deserves. And he repeated it twice, so it wasn't a gaffe.

[SpazX]

Dammit Myke, SHE HAS EXECUTIVE EXPERIENCE!

[KingBroly]

You know, not...really liking the crowd.

[bmulligan]

It's an idiot-proof website, easy to search, easy to navigate. Take a look at what Obama has done in the Senate, what McCain has done in the Senate, and what Biden has done in the Senate.

Please do. Please. Select both "McCain" and "Obama" under the "browse bills by sponsor" section. Tell me who is a do-nothing, and who's asleep at the wheel. Also, keep in mind their relative senate experiences in years.



I certainly hope you aren't comparing the NUMBER of sponsored bills, because 3/4 of Obama's are ridiculously inane and aren't worthy of a resume. I mean really, I'm not a McCain supporter but you can't really believe Obama is a "do something" politician because of these:


A concurrent resolution honoring the life of Percy Lavon Julian

A concurrent resolution expressing the sense of Congress that a commemorative postage stamp should be issued honoring Rosa Louise McCauley Parks.

A concurrent resolution supporting the goals and ideals of Sickle Cell Disease Awareness Month.

A concurrent resolution commemorating Irena Sendler

A resolution celebrating the life of Bishop Gilbert Earl Patterson.

A resolution designating July 12, 2007, as "National Summer Learning Day".

A resolution honoring and recognizing the achievements of Carl Stokes

A resolution expressing support for the designation of Disability Pride Day

A bill to authorize resources for a grant program for local educational agencies to create innovation districts.

A bill to promote healthy communities.

A bill to provide for sustained United States leadership in a cooperative global effort to prevent nuclear terrorism

A bill to provide procedures for the proper classification of employees and independent contractors, and for other purposes.

A bill to establish nutrition and physical education standards for schools.

To provide $100 million for the Summer Term Education Program

To require the Director of Mathematics, Science, and Engineering Education to establish a program to recruit and provide mentors for women and underrepresented minorities who are interested in careers in mathematics, science, and engineering.

To establish summer term education programs.



You'll find this resume padding in ANY senator's portfolio. And sponsored bills don't mean shit - especially when 75% of them never even get out of committee. Then more than half of those never get to a floor vote. I think we've discussed the irrelevance of this site before, perhaps four years ago. Bills cannot be summed up in one sentence with any degree of accuracy (c.f., Patriot Act) so reliance on this type of information to judge a Senator's efficacy is folly.

If you just want some stats, try govcheck.us

It's better

[mykevermin]

You know, not...really liking the crowd.

whaddya mean?

As for Palin, she has good composure, but to say her speech lacks substance is akin to saying the PS3 was a tad overpriced at launch.

I wonder if she tried to claim that she opposed the "bridge to nowhere," since it's VERY well documented that she looked for $392 million in federal funds for it.

EDIT: bmug, it's just one proxy of activity as a senator. That McCain has DECADES more experience and 1/4th the number is telling; not the entire story, sure, but it's not something to flippantly write off as you try to do. Unless you're practicing cognitive dissonance exercises so you can hold your nose to vote for McCain in November.

[KingBroly]

The crowd seems a bit too rabid for my liking.

Palin is coming across as sort of a normal, common person (Which I think is a good thing). I'll have to check if a few lines came on the fly. They seemed...odd.

[dopa345]

I have to say, she's doing a lot better than I expected. I'm sure much of her speech is ad libed, gives it a more natural flow.

The VP debate should be interesting.

[lilboo]

No no no no.

She reminds me soo much of Sheila Brofloski.
What what WHAT?!

[mykevermin]

I'm sure much of her speech is ad libed

libbed.

That said, I hope you don't truly believe ANY of these people ad lib their speeches to any great length.

[happy]

So I listened to about a half hour and she had yet to make any statement of substance I got bored and turned it off. I particularly liked the whole let me tell you what a mayor does, took a jab at Obama and then didn't say what a mayor does in a small town (pretty much nothing). I'm sure the media will talk about how great the speech is though.

And, what the hell is she wearing?

O and for the ad libbing, the whole thing was already written and sent to the media. The AP even posted their article before she finished with direct quotes:
Edit: the link was updated with a real article, but you could read quotes well before she went on stage.

[Ikohn4ever]

I have to say, she's doing a lot better than I expected. I'm sure much of her speech is ad libed.


you might have missed the teleprompter in front of her displaying the speech.

[Purple Flames]

She sure is going for the cheap pops in this speech.

[bmulligan]

EDIT: bmug, it's just one proxy of activity as a senator. That McCain has DECADES more experience and 1/4th the number is telling; not the entire story, sure, but it's not something to flippantly write off as you try to do. Unless you're practicing cognitive dissonance exercises so you can hold your nose to vote for McCain in November.

Exactly my point, myke, that you can't rely on any one source, especially this one, for an objective judgement.

You really thin McCain has only sponsored 38 bills in his career - ALL from 2007 to present ?

Not likely.


John McCain has sponsored 537 bills since Jan 21, 1993, of which 340 haven't made it out of committee and 31 were successfully enacted. McCain has co-sponsored 1230 bills during the same time period.

[KingBroly]

So I listened to about a half hour and she had yet to make any statement of substance I got bored and turned it off. I particularly liked the whole let me tell you what a mayor does, took a jab at Obama and then didn't say what a mayor does in a small town (pretty much nothing). I'm sure the media will talk about how great the speech is though.

And, what the hell is she wearing?

O and for the ad libbing, the whole thing was already written and sent to the media. The AP even posted their article before she finished with direct quotes:
http://news.yahoo.com/story//ap/20080904/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_convention_rdp


Probably to make sure she didn't look too much like a Beauty Queen like in some photos circling around the internet.

[dopa345]

libbed.

That said, I hope you don't truly believe ANY of these people ad lib their speeches to any great length.

any.

Okay, my mistake, so it's a completely canned speech. Either way, it's still better than I would have expected. More entertaining than most of the speeches so far in either convention. Not enough to swing me back to vote Republican this election, but she might not be as much the lightweight I had initially thought.

[KingBroly]

Okay, what the heck is McCain doing out there?

[happy]

Probably to make sure she didn't look too much like a Beauty Queen like in some photos circling around the internet.

My guess was that it protects from the wind in Alaska, wind hurts when it's cold.

[KingBroly]

My guess was that it protects from the wind in Alaska, wind hurts when it's cold.

But that's contradicted by the fact that she wore a skirt.

[trq]

Jesus. How do these people still pass off the "We respect war veterans" schtick after completely eviscerating one with utter fabrications four years ago? I mean, fuck -- I though we all *knew* they were full of shit, yet they still try to float BS like, "Only one man has actually *fought* for you."

[mykevermin]

I'm glad I switched over to The Daily Show. The second segment of the night was one of the most biting, witty, Republican-self-incrimination segments I've seen in AGES.

Just beautiful.

[Purple Flames]

I'm glad I switched over to The Daily Show. The second segment of the night was one of the most biting, witty, Republican-self-incrimination segments I've seen in AGES.

Just beautiful.

I saw that too. Those were brillient.

[SpazX]

I'm glad I switched over to The Daily Show. The second segment of the night was one of the most biting, witty, Republican-self-incrimination segments I've seen in AGES.

Just beautiful.

Which is why I watch them for my convention coverage :-P

[happy]

I'm glad I switched over to The Daily Show. The second segment of the night was one of the most biting, witty, Republican-self-incrimination segments I've seen in AGES.

Just beautiful.

I look forward to watching it when I wake up tomorrow.

Online TV the next morning is wonderful.

[bmulligan]

Well, at least it's over.

I'm still trying to wash out Guilliani's speech about how McCain will make government smaller and lower my taxes. He's one helluv an actor.

C-Span is again inundated with calls from Ron Paul supporters commenting on the nights spectacle. His rally was much more substantive and sincere. AND, as Paul points out, not subsidized by any taxpayer dollars.

[mykevermin]

Well, at least it's over.

I'm still trying to wash out Guilliani's speech about how McCain will make government smaller and lower my taxes. He's one helluv an actor.

C-Span is again inundated with calls from Ron Paul supporters commenting on the nights spectacle. His rally was much more substantive and sincere. AND, as Paul points out, not subsidized by any taxpayer dollars.

PUMA!

;)

[level1online]

I'm just glad I ate my fiber this morning :D

[jputahraptor]

I'm glad I switched over to The Daily Show. The second segment of the night was one of the most biting, witty, Republican-self-incrimination segments I've seen in AGES.

Just beautiful.

For all the bitching about Fox News here which is right leaning, the daily show alone balances it out with it's liberal views. I mean they always endorse a Democrat so go figure. Never mind CNN, MSNBC, the NY Times, Washington Post, Colbert Report, : deep breath: LA Times, Air America, CBS, NBC, ABC, Comedy Central, Channel 13, Newsweek, AOL, ah what's the point I'll only get flamed. :)

And that was only media, never mind most Universities or Hollywood.

Anyway, I did love her line about his two books but not one law being passed. Sums Obama up pretty well.

[Autumn Star]

What was the point of all of those delegates voting for Ron Paul?
Do they really think just by doing that, they're going to get Ron Paul supporters? They must be retarded.

[mykevermin]

What was the point of all of those delegates voting for Ron Paul?
Do they really think just by doing that, they're going to get Ron Paul supporters? They must be retarded.

Just like electoral votes, they must be cast as they were voted by each state. Now, states differ with either "whole" or "proportionate" voting. In the case of the latter, every person on the primary ticket gets that % of that state's delegated votes. So if McCain got 30%, Paul 10%, 9iu11iani 40%, and Romney 30%, they'd get 3, 1, 4, and 3 votes each (for a hypothetical state that has 10 delegates).

It's formality at this point, but a formality that is honored.

For all the bitching about Fox News here which is right leaning, the daily show alone balances it out with it's liberal views. I mean they always endorse a Democrat so go figure. Never mind CNN, MSNBC, the NY Times, Washington Post, Colbert Report, : deep breath: LA Times, Air America, CBS, NBC, ABC, Comedy Central, Channel 13, Newsweek, AOL, ah what's the point I'll only get flamed. :)

And that was only media, never mind most Universities or Hollywood.

Anyway, I did love her line about his two books but not one law being passed. Sums Obama up pretty well.

Feel free to comment once again. Now that I have your opinion without you having *seen* the clip, go to the Daily Show archives on comedy central's website and view it for yourself.

And, lastly, kudos for your ability to get out nearly 65% of all generic, paranoid, and incorrect Republican "THEY'RE ALL AGAINST US!!!!" talking points in one post. Your ability to use so many words to say so very little is a deed that doesn't go unnoticed.

[KingBroly]

Hmm...I thought it was funny until the last part. It never ends.

[dmaul1114]

I didn't make it too Palin's speech. I turned it on for about 5 minutes and when Steele had the crowd chanting "drill baby drill" I couldn't take it any more and turned it off and watched some Heroes Season 2 on DVD instead.

I'll read a transcript of the speech tomorrow.

[Autumn Star]

Just like electoral votes, they must be cast as they were voted by each state. Now, states differ with either "whole" or "proportionate" voting. In the case of the latter, every person on the primary ticket gets that % of that state's delegated votes. So if McCain got 30%, Paul 10%, 9iu11iani 40%, and Romney 30%, they'd get 3, 1, 4, and 3 votes each (for a hypothetical state that has 10 delegates).

It's formality at this point, but a formality that is honored.
Ah, I see. I suppose that makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Chase]

For her audience, I think Sarah Palin performed well and told them what they wanted to hear.

For everyone outside her audience, I think they will see her as an arrogant attack dog.

[KingBroly]

I wonder if during McCain's speech the media will stand and applaud like they did during Obama's speech.

Palin's speech was like a saying what some are thinking speech. She probably impressed more than people thought she would, as some were targeting her as pretty dumb. Whether or not people agree with what she said is another story. People who think she's the first one to say anything hurtful about another candidate during the campaign has also been daydreaming.

For me, she seemed like someone who gets it (what Washington is about) and maybe that's all a lot of people wanted to hear.

[mykevermin]

The more I think about it, and glimpsing a transcript of Palin's speech, it hit me what her speech made me think of.

It came off as a political version of a Henny Youngman routine. Or, to make a comparison in the more recent half of the last century, like she was playing The Dozens with someone.

It was chock full of one-liners that seemed to be of the sort that should require cheers of "OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHH!!!!", "DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM MMM!!!" and the like, with perhaps those two guys from "White Chicks" serving as surrogates in the backdrop of how to react.

Which is fine to a degree, because Biden's speech was largely the attack speech.

But she spent precious little time demonstrating why she was qualified, what she would bring to the ticket, or to allay fears that she and her family are blithering hypocritical idiots who want to shred the constitution and ban books from your library the way she tried to do as mayor of Alaska.

Instead, she seemed to be more interested in "Harry Reid's momma sooo fat..."

[SpazX]

Well I'll have to read that transcript...

[thrustbucket]

At least one UK media (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/columnists/fergus_shanahan/article1647092.ece) outlet thought her speech was "stunning" and "popped Obama's Balloon". How much that is true, or not, is likely dependent on how much you love Obama and hate Republicans (as witnessed by preliminary posting in this thread). But I find it a lot more interesting what the foreign media thinks, since what they think of us seems so important to so many today.

Edit: Also, Clinton aides (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13129.html): media coverage of her has been sexist. "Unlikely allies"

[bmulligan]

For all the bitching about Fox News here which is right leaning, the daily show alone balances it out with it's liberal views. I mean they always endorse a Democrat so go figure. . .

But at least Stewart is funny and doesn't pretend to be an "objective" observer of the news. Well, okay, he DOES pretend to be, but that's the joke about the regular "news" media and the whole purpose of the Daily Show.

He even gets off telling the mainstream media to get it's head out of it's ass on a regular basis, outside of his farcical program, and they all think he's just being comedic. I'm sorry I missed it last night. Guess I'll have to try Hulu later and catch up.

[fatherofcaitlyn]

The party of the Patriot Act, of domestic warentless wiretapping, of national security letters, of eliminating habeas corpus, isn't the party of Big Brother?

You better believe it ... or else.

[speedracer]

At least one UK media (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/columnists/fergus_shanahan/article1647092.ece) outlet thought her speech was "stunning" and "popped Obama's Balloon". How much that is true, or not, is likely dependent on how much you love Obama and hate Republicans (as witnessed by preliminary posting in this thread). But I find it a lot more interesting what the foreign media thinks, since what they think of us seems so important to so many today.
I don't think anyone expected her to be as composed as she was. She gives great speech, though I personally found it a little lacking. The knocks on Obama aside, there just wasn't much there.

She's quite comfortable with the out-in-front attack style. Having the stage to yourself and doing it is one thing, but trying to get away with that standing next to Joe Biden is going to be a different game entirely.

[Sc4rfac3]

I don't think anyone expected her to be as composed as she was. She gives great speech, though I personally found it a little lacking. The knocks on Obama aside, there just wasn't much there.

She's quite comfortable with the out-in-front attack style. Having the stage to yourself and doing it is one thing, but trying to get away with that standing next to Joe Biden is going to be a different game entirely.
QFT
I think thats where she is gonna get hit hard. Her speech was so full of "Preaching to the choir" moments that it took away from what she was trying to prove. That's not gonna work in a debate. I dont care if your some Hockey mom pittbull hybrid, how are you gonna fix what is broken?

[MSI Magus]

At least one UK media (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/columnists/fergus_shanahan/article1647092.ece) outlet thought her speech was "stunning" and "popped Obama's Balloon". How much that is true, or not, is likely dependent on how much you love Obama and hate Republicans (as witnessed by preliminary posting in this thread). But I find it a lot more interesting what the foreign media thinks, since what they think of us seems so important to so many today.

Edit: Also, Clinton aides (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13129.html): media coverage of her has been sexist. "Unlikely allies"

Man you really are the most biased sack of crap on any site of ever been to. Seriously I post at several political boards and you just take the cake. Every last post of yours is attacking the left and building the right.....yet again you claim to not be Republican. Well guess what....stop hiding behind the word Libertarian or whatever it is you claim to be.

I watched her speech, and Romneys, and Guilianis and Thompsons and even a lot of the little guys. And guess what. They freaking sucked. It has nothing to do with left or right, it has to do with simple facts. The democratic speeches for the most part were disappointing because they did lower themselves a peg and toss a few softball attacks at Republicans. And there was a lack of detail in the plans they were laying forth. But Palin, Romney and the others speeches were nothing but attacks, accusations of sexism and screaming drill, jihad and terrorist. They touched on the economy maybe twice the whole night, I cant recall hearing about the middle class once and there was nothing about other important issues such as building unity with the other party and other nations to achieve what needs to be done. 90% of not just her speech but every speech was attack after attack after attack on Obama, "liberals" and the media.

I criticized Obamas speech, and Obama as a whole has alot of faults as does Biden(he supports the RIAA and lawsuits and monitoring online!). But atleast they are dealing with the issues some of the time. The Republicans are just repeating what Bush did to win....trying to scare the electorate making this seem like the most dangerous time ever when facts are outside a few troubled regions we are living in the most prosperous safe times ever. And trying to isolate and attack the other party through vicious attacks many of which are lies.

And this whole Sexism thing is stupid. A few media outlets posted a story on if she was ready to have a family and be the VP which is sexist and stupid. But all the other questions are perfectly legit. If you claim abstinence only and your kid gets knocked up....that's just a poster child moment. Its also a legit story because it with the corruption scandals and people like Librarians and police chiefs speaking up on being fired for horrible reasons raise questions of if she was vetted. Its sad that people like you are now crying sexism and trying to play the moderate where when Obama was attacked for months and Michelle for the last damn year few people even on the left were calling racism and sexism. We didnt because we knew it was stupid, we didnt because we knew it was the media just trying to get a good story.

So do us all a favor. Drop the act and go rub McCain and the rights back. We know you love not just the man but the whole party. Or you atleast have so much hate and bile in you towards the left that you allow that to make a complete jack ass out of yourself with every post. Like I said anyone with a brain and thats fair can see the Democratic speach was lacking, but it discussed the economy, the energy crisis, rebuilding our place in the world and even trying to heal with Republicans. The Reps just attacked the left and those that disagree with them and said drill, drill, drill, jihad, drill, terrorist and j00 all gonna die if liberalz in Washington!(while also claiming that liberals run Washington currently....yet we are safe?).

[fatherofcaitlyn]

^ Such anger.

[MSI Magus]

^ Such anger.

Damn straight. Heh not really. I hate people far to the right or left, but especially hate whenever they try to play Mr Moderate or hide what party they are a member of by claiming to be Green or the flavor of the moment Libertarian. Im not really upset in real life, but do think the guy is a two face that pretends he is something he is not.

[dmaul1114]

For her audience, I think Sarah Palin performed well and told them what they wanted to hear.

For everyone outside her audience, I think they will see her as an arrogant attack dog.

Yeah, that's why McCain choosing her is so baffling. On top of all the other problems, she really only appeals to the core, socially conservative republican base. And those people weren't voting for Obama anyway.

If any thing the choice of Palin is going to lose him votes from independents, moderate repubs/dems who are in the fence etc. And that's were elections are won or lost in this day and age of super close elections.

[homeland]

I've got a drinking game for the convention.

Buy a bottle of liquor. Get the $2 airplane size.

Pour a shot and drink it for every nonwhite person you see at the convention.

Let me know if you drink it all.

On Cnn they said there were 40 african American delegates......40!

[MSI Magus]

On Cnn they said there were 40 african American delegates......40!

If you really want to get buzzed you play it 1 of 2 ways my friend does. Take a shot either every time they say the word Reagan or every time they attack the opposite party.

[dmaul1114]

If you really want to get buzzed you play it 1 of 2 ways my friend does. Take a shot either every time they say the word Reagan or every time they attack the opposite party.

Drill would be an even better word to use for that purpose.

[fatherofcaitlyn]

^You two are going to get sued. People will die from alcohol poisoning if they follow your advice.

[MSI Magus]

Drill would be an even better word to use for that purpose.

Drill would indeed be another great word if you really wanted to get shit faced. Hell Palin alone said drill like 80 times during her speach. The funny thing is most of them cant say drill once they have to say drill drill drill.

Anyways. The associated press ran a fact check on the speaches last night. It shows why I say that people praising her speach are biased morons. It was just attacks and lies.

Here is the article.

ST. PAUL, Minn. - Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin and her Republican supporters held back little Wednesday as they issued dismissive attacks on Barack Obama and flattering praise on her credentials to be vice president. In some cases, the reproach and the praise stretched the truth.
ADVERTISEMENT

Some examples:

PALIN: "I have protected the taxpayers by vetoing wasteful spending ... and championed reform to end the abuses of earmark spending by Congress. I told the Congress 'thanks but no thanks' for that Bridge to Nowhere."

THE FACTS: As mayor of Wasilla, Palin hired a lobbyist and traveled to Washington annually to support earmarks for the town totaling $27 million. In her two years as governor, Alaska has requested nearly $750 million in special federal spending, by far the largest per-capita request in the nation. While Palin notes she rejected plans to build a $398 million bridge from Ketchikan to an island with 50 residents and an airport, that opposition came only after the plan was ridiculed nationally as a "bridge to nowhere."

PALIN: "There is much to like and admire about our opponent. But listening to him speak, it's easy to forget that this is a man who has authored two memoirs but not a single major law or reform — not even in the state senate."

THE FACTS: Compared to McCain and his two decades in the Senate, Obama does have a more meager record. But he has worked with Republicans to pass legislation that expanded efforts to intercept illegal shipments of weapons of mass destruction and to help destroy conventional weapons stockpiles. The legislation became law last year. To demean that accomplishment would be to also demean the work of Republican Sen. Richard Lugar of Indiana, a respected foreign policy voice in the Senate. In Illinois, he was the leader on two big, contentious measures in Illinois: studying racial profiling by police and requiring recordings of interrogations in potential death penalty cases. He also successfully co-sponsored major ethics reform legislation.

PALIN: "The Democratic nominee for president supports plans to raise income taxes, raise payroll taxes, raise investment income taxes, raise the death tax, raise business taxes, and increase the tax burden on the American people by hundreds of billions of dollars."

THE FACTS: The Tax Policy Center, a think tank run jointly by the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute, concluded that Obama's plan would increase after-tax income for middle-income taxpayers by about 5 percent by 2012, or nearly $2,200 annually. McCain's plan, which cuts taxes across all income levels, would raise after tax-income for middle-income taxpayers by 3 percent, the center concluded.

Obama would provide $80 billion in tax breaks, mainly for poor workers and the elderly, including tripling the Earned Income Tax Credit for minimum-wage workers and higher credits for larger families.

He also would raise income taxes, capital gains and dividend taxes on the wealthiest. He would raise payroll taxes on taxpayers with incomes above $250,000, and he would raise corporate taxes. Small businesses that make more than $250,000 a year would see taxes rise.

MCCAIN: "She's been governor of our largest state, in charge of 20 percent of America's energy supply ... She's responsible for 20 percent of the nation's energy supply. I'm entertained by the comparison and I hope we can keep making that comparison that running a political campaign is somehow comparable to being the executive of the largest state in America," he said in an interview with ABC News' Charles Gibson.

THE FACTS: McCain's phrasing exaggerates both claims. Palin is governor of a state that ranks second nationally in crude oil production, but she's no more "responsible" for that resource than President Bush was when he was governor of Texas, another oil-producing state. In fact, her primary power is the ability to tax oil, which she did in concert with the Alaska Legislature. And where Alaska is the largest state in America, McCain could as easily have called it the 47th largest state — by population.

MCCAIN: "She's the commander of the Alaska National Guard. ... She has been in charge, and she has had national security as one of her primary responsibilities," he said on ABC.

THE FACTS: While governors are in charge of their state guard units, that authority ends whenever those units are called to actual military service. When guard units are deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, for example, they assume those duties under "federal status," which means they report to the Defense Department, not their governors. Alaska's national guard units have a total of about 4,200 personnel, among the smallest of state guard organizations.

FORMER ARKANSAS GOV. MIKE HUCKABEE: Palin "got more votes running for mayor of Wasilla, Alaska than Joe Biden got running for president of the United States."

THE FACTS: A whopper. Palin got 616 votes in the 1996 mayor's election, and got 909 in her 1999 re-election race, for a total of 1,525. Biden dropped out of the race after the Iowa caucuses, but he still got 76,165 votes in 23 states and the District of Columbia where he was on the ballot during the 2008 presidential primaries.

FORMER MASSACHUSETTS GOV. MITT ROMNEY: "We need change, all right — change from a liberal Washington to a conservative Washington! We have a prescription for every American who wants change in Washington — throw out the big-government liberals, and elect John McCain and Sarah Palin."

THE FACTS: A Back-to-the-Future moment. George W. Bush, a conservative Republican, has been president for nearly eight years. And until last year, Republicans controlled Congress. Only since January 2007 have Democrats have been in charge of the House and Senate.

I find it funny that John McCain says he will pay for the war in Iraq, tons of tax cuts and all sorts of other stuff by vetoing pork barrel spending....then chooses a VP thats got the highest per capita in the nation pork barrel spending requests.

[Khondor]

I usually stay away from political topics because most posters follow their party with blind faith and no amount of reason or common sense play any factor, but i decided to take mykevermin's suggestion
and watch the Daily Show recap of the RNC 9/3 show.

I have never seen this show and must say, I have never laughed so hard at a TV show im my life. That senator Foghorn and Droopy bit had my sides hurting.
Great stuff

[Tybee]

My favorite part of Palin's speech (other than Piper's Palm-ade moment), was the "homemade" Hockey Mom and other signs that went up at precisely the right moment for Palin to say, "I see my hockey moms are here tonight." But turns out every single one of them was lovingly crafted by a McCain staffer and passed out right before the speech.

Also enjoyed Rudy kvetching because the Dems don't mention 9/11 enough (you'd think he'd be pretty jealous if they did....After all that's HIS legacy) and getting his panties in a twist over the fact that the Dems simply refuse to preface every mention of terrorism with the word "Islamic." Surely, they are hiding something!

Ignoring the ridiculousness of this on its face, it overlooks the fact that the Atlanta Olympic bombing, the Anthrax attacks, the Oklahoma City bombing, the work of the Unabomber, the bombing of abortion clinics, and numerous other atrocities were committed by good 'ol homegrown terrorists.

Also ignores the fact that before W was in office, Al Quaida was operating in 4 countries (and none of those were Iraq)...And now they're in 60. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!

[MSI Magus]

I usually stay away from political topics because most posters follow their party with blind faith and no amount of reason or common sense play any factor, but i decided to take mykevermin's suggestion
and watch the Daily Show recap of the RNC 9/3 show.

I have never seen this show and must say, I have never laughed so hard at a TV show im my life. That senator Foghorn and Droopy bit had my sides hurting.
Great stuff

Heh cant believe you have never seen the show. Daily Show and the show that comes on after it Colbert Report are both great shows. Funny thing is people like to portray it far to the left but they seem to do a fairly good job lampooning the left and the right, they allow anyone to come on the show and cover all issues. I think they are one of the fairest sources around(especially when you look at stuff like fox news or groups like moveon)and better yet they dont seriously cover crap like the Obama/Hillary split in serious ways like the normal media.

[KingBroly]

So...do you have a link from an AP article discussing the facts of Democrat Convention speeches?

[thrustbucket]

So...do you have a link from an AP article discussing the facts of Democrat Convention speeches?

There are almost no "facts" brought up at conventions.

[MSI Magus]

So...do you have a link from an AP article discussing the facts of Democrat Convention speeches?

I didnt see one. But at the same time the DNC didnt have as many outragous claims and flat out lies ;)
They stretched the truth alot and had a few ugly attacks that probally wernt fair.....but they didnt just make shit up and reverse their records like the Republicans did.

[greydt]

So...do you have a link from an AP article discussing the facts of Democrat Convention speeches?

Well, we tried to talk about some of Obama's numbers in the thread you created until you started making stuff up.

[Msut77]

Well, we tried to talk about some of Obama's numbers in the thread you created until you started making stuff up.

That thread was hilarious.

[Tybee]

So...do you have a link from an AP article discussing the facts of Democrat Convention speeches?

For the second time in a week I find myself kinda sorta agreeing with thrust (God, someone check me into a clinic) in that conventions are about pretty much everything BUT facts. That said, last night was a woefully sorry amalgamation of lies and dissemination meant to distract from Palin's utter lack of qualifications and participation in the same sort of pork barrel grubbing she's supposed to save us from.

I don't know what McCain's speech will include tonight, but I know Obama's was almost entirely about his hopes and aspirations for this country and specifics on what he intends to deliver as president, so not really something you can fact check.

[thrustbucket]

I don't know what McCain's speech will include tonight, but I know Obama's was almost entirely about his hopes and aspirations for this country and specifics on what he intends to deliver as president, so not really something you can fact check.

I'd expect something very similar from McCain.

Lots of hot air and hype. But I guess that's ok if you think about it. These conventions are for the true believers. The whole point is to get them whipped into a frenzy. Their point really isn't to explain why they are the best for the job, I think the debates are more for that.

[KingBroly]

37,244,000 people watched that speech last night. McCain gets 30,000,000 tops.

[Tybee]

I'd attribute a lot of that number to morbid curiosity, considering that other than Gustav, she's the only thing that's been in the news for the last 6 days.

Incidentally, Obama pulled down 38.5 million if you count the 100k or so in the stadium. Will be interesting to see McCain's number. Why do I keep having this vision of him actually keeling over mid-speech?

[fatherofcaitlyn]

^Moon over Parador.

My prediction for McCain's audience size: 100 billion dollars, I mean, people.

[Tybee]

^Moon over Parador.

But where oh where will they find someone as pasty, troll-like, and cancer-ridden as McCain?

My prediction for McCain's audience size: 100 billion dollars, I mean, people.

Watching last night, I'd never seen so many white bankers high-fiving in my life.

[Sc4rfac3]

37,244,000 people watched that speech last night. McCain gets 30,000,000 tops.
maybe football season starts tonight and if tonight is anything like last night my time is better spent watching my redskins play

[mykevermin]

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/09/04/jon-stewart-mocks-how-oreillys-opinion-on-teen-pregnancy-gestated-over-a-period-of-months/

A link to the Daily Show segment. Sadly, not the first segment of the night, containing the Senator Leghorn and Droopy sketches.

[SpazX]

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/09/04/jon-stewart-mocks-how-oreillys-opinion-on-teen-pregnancy-gestated-over-a-period-of-months/

A link to the Daily Show segment. Sadly, not the first segment of the night, containing the Senator Leghorn and Droopy sketches.

You can always get the entire episode on hulu: http://www.hulu.com/watch/33255/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-wed-sep-3-2008

[Sc4rfac3]

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/09/04/jon-stewart-mocks-how-oreillys-opinion-on-teen-pregnancy-gestated-over-a-period-of-months/

A link to the Daily Show segment. Sadly, not the first segment of the night, containing the Senator Leghorn and Droopy sketches.
LOL he didnt even try hard to expose them.

[Chase]

Hahaha... "Every time one of those pops up I lose a testicle."

That was way too easy.

[mykevermin]

If you support Sarah Palin, how do you feel about her deliberately lying to you about being opposed to the "bridge to nowhere"?

Don't you feel like she's insulting your intelligence by assuming you aren't bright or interested enough to look up these things?

[freakyzeeky]

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/37372/thumbs/s-NOWHERE-large.jpg

It sure looked like she opposed it. ;)

[Chase]

She loves endorsing shirts, it seems.

http://i38.tinypic.com/jrs3dv.jpg

[homeland]

I wonder how Republicans at the Convention or watching on tv think about it being so white, do they even notice? Also Joe Gibbs speech came off as a religous nut.

[Mr. 420]

Mccain set to announce change is coming. God I hope this news is true and he just calls it quits .
Rudy
Rudy
Rudy
Rudy

[mykevermin]

Did they just call McCain pro-life?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZHeowtJcQw

[KingBroly]

They generalized the stance, like everyone does.

Okay, NBC really needs to stop showing that in case someone calls them out on it.

[mykevermin]

They generalized the stance, like everyone does.

Because everyone is on both sides of the fence like McCain?

I don't get what you're saying.

[KingBroly]

Pro life v. Pro Choice isn't as simple as it sounds.

EDIT: Sigh...why does security have to suck?

[dafoomie]

Its simple. Palin was for the bridge to nowhere, before she was against it.


What did that protester's shirt say? Now I know why there are so many USA chants... They are to drown out dissent in the audience. They can keep Ron Paul from the floor, but they can't stop some nitwit?

[KingBroly]

I'm sure we'll hear about it afterwards, along with what Code Pink (I think that's what they're called) did.

[E-Z-B]

Anybody else watching John McCain's acceptance speech? I must really question his patriotism - I see no flag pin anywhere on him. :lol:

[mykevermin]

Pro life v. Pro Choice isn't as simple as it sounds.

EDIT: Sigh...why does security have to suck?

I understand that; but how can they generalize a stance that covers all the bases?

I missed the protestor; can someone give me the rundown?

[KingBroly]

He didn't mention his vote on that bill. Also, I'll give you that I don't see a pin on him.

There were 3 protestors overall. 1 in a black shirt with a banner, 2 in pink shirts. Can't tell you much beyond that I'm afraid. Watch afterwards, it'll be covered more than likely.

[mykevermin]

Watch afterwards, it'll be covered more than likely.

Replete with the conservatives deriding the "liberal media" for focusing on a security breach at the convention for the party that considers themselves the national security party.

[BlueSwim]

Am I the only one who thinks John Mccain looks like Gold Member from Austin Powers?

[mykevermin]

"2nd highest business tax rate" is a dubious, dubious claim generated from research out of a biased think tank. A biased think tank with poor methodology in calculating that very rate.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/19/the-greek-menace/

And you have to love Krugman's caption for his chart.

[KingBroly]

Replete with the conservatives deriding the "liberal media" for focusing on a security breach at the convention for the party that considers themselves the national security party.

They usually cover everything noteworthy. If there was a protester caught on camera during the Obama speech, you would've heard about it later.

[BlueSwim]

Translation: War with Iran confirmed

[KingBroly]

So I'm guessing Lieberman would count as both?

[RAMSTORIA]

Translation: War with Iran confirmed

dont fool yourself. war with iran will come no matter who is in office.

[BlueSwim]

dont fool yourself. war with iran will come no matter who is in office.


:cry::cry::cry:

[mykevermin]

dont fool yourself. war with iran will come no matter who is in office.

Yeeeeeeeeeah.

Bit of trivia for you guys: McCain was a POW.

[KingBroly]

What!? SPOILARZ!!!

[BlueSwim]

Thank God that's over. I don't believe a word he says. And WTF at that "raising McCain" song.

[homeland]

Did they really go there? Showing the planes crash into the buildings on 9/11...
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/09/the_death_of_a.html

[mykevermin]

No shit?

[KingBroly]

I'm kinda shocked he went into a lot of detail about his time as a POW which was powerful I think. I don't get the whole 'I'm gonna tattletale on earmarkers' part. Seems a bit juvenile.

[Tybee]

I'm kinda shocked he went into a lot of detail about his time as a POW which was powerful I think. I don't get the whole 'I'm gonna tattletale on earmarkers' part. Seems a bit juvenile.

That was the best and most powerful part of an otherwise terrible and rambling speech, which makes sense given it's the aspect of his character that most intrigues and inspires people to root for him.

But it doesn't tell me why he's qualified to be president.

I especially liked the call to community service when Palin belittled Obama (three times!) less than 24 hours ago for doing just that.

[KingBroly]

I don't think it was a good speech, but I think he tried (just me thinking here) to give a speech based on the idea that he's already a maverick, and what he's saying is different from traditional Republicans, which is why he didn't elaborate.

But like what's being said on TV is he's not comfortable giving speeches like this and it showed.

[mykevermin]

I think it showed that, when it comes to "zingers" and attack politics, nobody can beat the Republicans.

As for policies and offerings, because they're offering the same thing Bush did/does/would do (particularly in the realm of health care), their speechwriters settle for vague allusions to "low taxes" and sating our addiction to finite and depleting sources of energy.

[KingBroly]

It all sounded (both Presidential candidate speeches) like a bunch of big promises that won't solve a damn thing to me.

[Msut77]

It all sounded (both Presidential candidate speeches) like a bunch of big promises that won't solve a damn thing to me.

What I saw in both conventions was a repudiation of the past 8 years. That makes sense for the Democrats but for Conservatives it just more evidence of how insane the GOP has become.

[rumblebear]

vague as expected, though McCain explaining his POW experience is really well done and touching. Makes him authentic unlike most other politicians.

[Ikohn4ever]

just curious how his POW experience is any different from any other POWs' and how that somehow makes him qualified to lead.

[dafoomie]

just curious how his POW experience is any different from any other POWs' and how that somehow makes him qualified to lead.
He was seriously injured, turned down early release, and was treated more cruelly than most because of his VIP status (son of a high ranking Admiral). He acted about as heroically as anyone probably could, though I consider Stockdale's ordeal more harrowing.

He's a genuine hero. Whether thats relevant to being President or not is debatable, but its least of all relevant to Republicans who ridiculed and attacked the honorable military service of McCain himself in the 2000 primaries, Kerry in 2004, James Stockdale in 92, Max Cleland in 02... Certainly doesn't matter to them.

[Ikohn4ever]

He was seriously injured, turned down early release, and was treated more cruelly than most because of his VIP status (son of a high ranking Admiral). He acted about as heroically as anyone probably could, though I consider Stockdale's ordeal more harrowing.


from what i have read they offered to either release or treat better many POWs who would publicly denounce America. Kind of curious where you get more cruelly?

[KingBroly]

What I saw in both conventions was a repudiation of the past 8 years. That makes sense for the Democrats but for Conservatives it just more evidence of how insane the GOP has become.

You're tying conservative to republican like it's the same thing, which isn't the case.

The best line McCain had about the Republicans, and I think A LOT of conservatives will agree with is the line about how they were originally elected in 1994 to shrink Government and stop corruption but they became corrupted themselves due to the glimmer of Washington's power. It changes you. Once you leave, you wonder what the hell you were thinking while you were there.

[dafoomie]

from what i have read they offered to either release or treat better many POWs who would publicly denounce America. Kind of curious where you get more cruelly?
His father was in command of all US forces in Vietnam. They considered it a priority to get something out of him for propaganda purposes, and when he turned down early release he was tortured severely.

[The Crotch]

Man. One of the best Daily Shows I've seen in ages.

[Tybee]

Man. One of the best Daily Shows I've seen in ages.

Yup...Love that he called the GOP out on their ridiculous belittling of community service as somehow laughable and less worthy of respect than serving as a pampered politician in a bumblefuck town ... especially when all of the dittoheads were hoisting "SERVICE" signs the night before.

Giuliani needs to dig a hole in the foundation of Ground Zero, crawl in, and die.

[Chase]

Did they really go there? Showing the planes crash into the buildings on 9/11...
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/09/the_death_of_a.html


Yes. Yes they did. Holy frijoles, fear mongering at its finest/worst.

[KingBroly]

And yet it has gotten almost no press coverage so far. Maybe because it wasn't on TV. Oh well.

[Chase]

And yet it has gotten almost no press coverage so far. Maybe because it wasn't on TV. Oh well.


Uh, what? I saw it on TV. :-s

[thrustbucket]

I watched about 5 minutes of his speech. I have no idea what he was saying because I was too distracted at the really shitty presentation of the green screen behind him. On the close up camera, it was green with weird blobs moving around. When the camera switched to a wide shot, it was some pretty picture. The camera kept switching around and the green screen changed scenes, or lost scenes. It was amazingly annoying. I don't know if it was just NBC or the convention itself, but that's the only channel I had.

Oh and thought number 2: He really shouldn't try to wave his arms around. It looks terrible. I've never seen McCain so animated, which seemed very out of character for him.

[KingBroly]

Uh, what? I saw it on TV. :-s

Which channel?

[greydt]

You're tying conservative to republican like it's the same thing, which isn't the case.


The Republicans AND Conservatives are doing that themselves, not to mention the numerous speeches throwing "liberal" as a dirty word and associating it with the Democrats. You want to blame someone for this, blame it on the Republican tactics that is cementing these labels.

Read the speeches from both conventions, watch the talking points in interviews, etc. You'll see it's the Republicans who will consistently thump their chest about being conservative. On the other hand, Democrats aren't doing that with the word liberal since it's somehow become a dirty word.

Personally, I think it's ridiculous that a person is fully "conservative" or fully "liberal" since it SHOULD vary in different degrees, by issue, by individual person. Unfortunately, it's easier to be on one side or the other in this country, as if it's some kind of football game - it's ridiculous.

I consider myself a Democrat only because I'm a social liberal (bordering on libertarian for certain issues) but conservative when it comes to governmental issues like size, military, etc. Based on existing labels though, I am considered a pot smoking baby aborting gay hippie, despite probably living an actual life more conservative (the actual definition) than actual conservatives (the label).

[fatherofcaitlyn]

I finally listened to Palin's Speech while playing the Necronomicon. I had to recreate the same situation when I was listening to Barack's speech.

That was painful to endure.

I noticed how she was harping on Obama being a community organizer 20 years ago.

What was she doing 20 years ago? That's right. Bouncing between colleges and doing beauty pageants.

Since I won't have time to waste on Biden's speech, was he claiming McCain was plagarizing speeches 20 years ago?

What was John McCain doing 20 years back? That's right. He was joining a basketball team: the Keating Five.

[bmulligan]

I think it showed that, when it comes to "zingers" and attack politics, nobody can beat the Republicans.


I find it amazing you can watch the democrat convention speeches with blinders that prevent you from witnessing their keen zinging skills, and the fact that each speech, in their entirety, were attacks on republicans and their ideas.

Let's see, of the top of my head there's:

Republicans want to-
steal your social security
take away your job
tax you, make you poor, and give your money to the rich
take away your home and make you sleep on the street
poison you and make you sick
refuse you medical care
refuse you an education
take away your daycare
kill your children
spy on your phonecalls and sexual practices
refuse to give anything to you for free like all of the above
And, in closing, Republicans want to kill you and dance on your corpse.

That about sums up the democrat tactical outline of campaigning.

[MSI Magus]

I find it amazing you can watch the democrat convention speeches with blinders that prevent you from witnessing their keen zinging skills, and the fact that each speech, in their entirety, were attacks on republicans and their ideas.

Let's see, of the top of my head there's:

Republicans want to-
steal your social security
take away your job
tax you, make you poor, and give your money to the rich
take away your home and make you sleep on the street
poison you and make you sick
refuse you medical care
refuse you an education
take away your daycare
kill your children
spy on your phonecalls and sexual practices
refuse to give anything to you for free like all of the above
And, in closing, Republicans want to kill you and dance on your corpse.

That about sums up the democrat tactical outline of campaigning.

What a biased load. The Dems speach dealt with the Economy, energy, repairing foreign relations and many other things. McCains speach wasnt bad but every otehr Rep just attacked the dems over and over and over and over when they wernt screaming terrorism, jihad and drill drill drill.

The Dems speach was far from good, but what you say makes you either horribly biased or shows you didnt listen to their speaches.

[KingBroly]

The one zinger I remember from the Democratic convention was from Kaine (VA) making a line about McCain's 7 houses. I forget the details. I agree that what bmulligan said was a bit much, and tried to make it sound outlandish intentionally but I did hear a few of those things like privatizing social security is evil (even though Congressmen have private control over their SS) and non-Government run health care is bad.

[MSI Magus]

The one zinger I remember from the Democratic convention was from Kaine (VA) making a line about McCain's 7 houses. I forget the details. I agree that what bmulligan said was a bit much, and tried to make it sound outlandish intentionally but I did hear a few of those things like privatizing social security is evil (even though Congressmen have private control over their SS) and non-Government run health care is bad.

Agreed. Thats one issue I definitely agree with conservatives on and it pisses me off that Dems refuse to budge.....yet dont really offer a debate as to why its a horrible idea.

[Msut77]

What a biased load. The Dems speach dealt with the Economy, energy, repairing foreign relations and many other things. McCains speach wasnt bad but every otehr Rep just attacked the dems over and over and over and over when they wernt screaming terrorism, jihad and drill drill drill.

The Dems speach was far from good, but what you say makes you either horribly biased or shows you didnt listen to their speaches.

They do want to do many of the things listed, they attempted to kill Social Security and while an expanded healthcare bill was passed it was slanted to help out drug companies more than people. The only time prince manages to be right is when he thinks he is making a zinger.

[Thomas96]

I find it amazing you can watch the democrat convention speeches with blinders that prevent you from witnessing their keen zinging skills, and the fact that each speech, in their entirety, were attacks on republicans and their ideas.

Let's see, of the top of my head there's:

Republicans want to-
steal your social security
take away your job
tax you, make you poor, and give your money to the rich
take away your home and make you sleep on the street
poison you and make you sick
refuse you medical care
refuse you an education
take away your daycare
kill your children
spy on your phonecalls and sexual practices
refuse to give anything to you for free like all of the above
And, in closing, Republicans want to kill you and dance on your corpse.

That about sums up the democrat tactical outline of campaigning.

YOu know between Palin and Mccain I haven't heard them say too much of anything to refute those claims, McCain says he knows how to Win wars... well hell, to win a war, someone has to die... "Kill your children"

Refuse medical care, - well Mccain definitely isn't supporting nation Healthcare, so guess that leaves out someone. and for that matter, he was against signing for the G.I. to help his former comrades - Vetrans get proper health care, but at least Obama addressed it in his speech.

I'm sure if I lose my home, McCain will allow me to spend a couple of nights in one of his seven...


I guess everyone has to follow the money, the top money makers in the US follow the republicans, because thats where their tax relief comes from, for the rest of us, its Obama that's promising for the other 98 percent of us. Tell I'm not in the top two, I'm in the 98th percentile, hell I got my job, I'll take the money myself.... I rather not wait for the crumbs to fall off the table.

[fatherofcaitlyn]

Listening to McCain's speech now...

So, I should just accept that my job will be outsourced? It is inevitable?

How about not diverting my taxes to large corporate farms so they can export food?

Great, he's going to commit us to Georgia. Why should I care?

"We can't turn a blind eye to aggression and international lawlessness that threatens the peace and stability of the world and the security of the American people."

Umm. By invading Iraq, didn't that cause the price of oil to skyrocket? Didn't a higher price in oil give oil exporters such as Russia more money in their pockets?

Does he say "My Friends" as some sort of nervous tick?

Christ, he's going on about Vietnam again.

LOL. If I'm not happy with your government, I should enlist? Uh, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't enjoy going overseas multiple times to prop up a government I don't support.

[Msut77]

You're tying conservative to republican like it's the same thing, which isn't the case.

Close enough. You would think after that the 5th or so time those poor poor conservatives were "corrupted" you would get a clue.

[MSI Magus]

Listening to McCain's speech now...

So, I should just accept that my job will be outsourced? It is inevitable?

How about not diverting my taxes to large corporate farms so they can export food?

Great, he's going to commit us to Georgia. Why should I care?

"We can't turn a blind eye to aggression and international lawlessness that threatens the peace and stability of the world and the security of the American people."

Umm. By invading Iraq, didn't that cause the price of oil to skyrocket? Didn't a higher price in oil give oil exporters such as Russia more money in their pockets?

Does he say "My Friends" as some sort of nervous tick?

Christ, he's going on about Vietnam again.

LOL. If I'm not happy with your government, I should enlist? Uh, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't enjoy going overseas multiple times to prop up a government I don't support.

His speech was pretty dull and full of rhetoric....but at least it wasn't like Palins where 80% of it was just attacking Obama. The one thing that really irked me though was that he kept talking about bringing change. Kinda pisses me off that Obama adopted the message of change and since then McCain has tried as hard as he can to steal that message. Thing that cracks me up the most was early on Republicans were up in arms with the message of why should we change everything is going great.....now they are cheering for that message. Dont get me wrong if Dems were on the loosing end of the stick they would cheer for whatever their canidate is saying. But the Reps are really being sheep right now.....

[fatherofcaitlyn]

Agreed. Thats one issue I definitely agree with conservatives on and it pisses me off that Dems refuse to budge.....yet dont really offer a debate as to why its a horrible idea.

Privatizing Social Security is a great idea IF you hand all of the money over to the worker. I can invest my money much better than how Social Security does it (IOUs).

However, the GWB gubmint plan was to play the stock market for me. Thanks, but I don't really want a bureaucrat who couldn't cut it in the real world as an investment banker bouncing my money around Wall Street.

Here's a good idea: give everybody an option to opt out of Social Security. If I opt out, put it on my paycheck tax free. I can buy disability insurance, life insurance and put more money into retirement on my own.

[HowStern]

Pretty big mistake he made by saying Adam Kokesh (the Iraq vet protestor) was "static and ground noise."

Although, we shouldn't be surprised, given his voting record (http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=53270&type=category&category=66&go.x=9&go.y=17)

[Tybee]

I watched about 5 minutes of his speech. I have no idea what he was saying because I was too distracted at the really shitty presentation of the green screen behind him. On the close up camera, it was green with weird blobs moving around. When the camera switched to a wide shot, it was some pretty picture. The camera kept switching around and the green screen changed scenes, or lost scenes. It was amazingly annoying. I don't know if it was just NBC or the convention itself, but that's the only channel I had.

Pretty big mistake he made by saying Adam Kokesh (the Iraq vet protestor) was "static and ground noise."

Although, we shouldn't be surprised, given his voting record (http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=53270&type=category&category=66&go.x=9&go.y=17)

Speaking of mistakes...

Looks like that picture that resulted in a repeat of McCain's unfortunate green screen moment was a complete bungle by McCain's staff in more ways than one. When cameras pulled back, viewers could see a fancy looking building that no one could identify. It appears they had wanted to show Walter Reed Medical Center to emphasize McCain's empathy for wounded veterans, but instead, some campaign flack got confused and found a pic of Walter Reed MIDDLE SCHOOL in Calif. and threw that up there instead.

Oops.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/213806.php

Bet he’s wishing he’d gone with columns after all.

[sgs89]

Privatizing Social Security is a great idea IF you hand all of the money over to the worker. I can invest my money much better than how Social Security does it (IOUs).

However, the GWB gubmint plan was to play the stock market for me. Thanks, but I don't really want a bureaucrat who couldn't cut it in the real world as an investment banker bouncing my money around Wall Street.

Here's a good idea: give everybody an option to opt out of Social Security. If I opt out, put it on my paycheck tax free. I can buy disability insurance, life insurance and put more money into retirement on my own.

OK, but don't come crying to me when your investments don't work out and you don't have enough money for retirement. I can't tell you how many people I've met who bitched their whole lives about having to pay into the "socialist" security system, that the money was theirs, that they would know what to do with it, etc., only to have nada when they are old. What do they do then? They rely on social security, that's what.

[Chase]

Which channel?


MSNBC.

*insert commentary about MSNBC below*

[SpazX]

They have some pics up on yahoo http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Ground-Zero/ss/events/ts/091102groundzero;_ylt=AuwMZlz4DsjIK9EoppcR6r8ZO7gF

[JolietJake]

You remember all the flak that Edwards got for his expensive haircuts? Well, while this isn't about John McCain, it does gvie you an idea of how "in touch" his family is.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080905/ap_en_ot/cvn_gop_fashion

His wife's $313,00 set of clothes and jewelry.

[sgs89]

You remember all the flak that Edwards got for his expensive haircuts? Well, while this isn't about John McCain, it does gvie you an idea of how "in touch" his family is.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080905/ap_en_ot/cvn_gop_fashion

His wife's $313,00 set of clothes and jewelry.

In fairness to Cindy, that represents a lower percentage of her net worth than the shorts, ripped t-shirt, and flip-flops do of the bubba buying a pack of smokes at the local 7-11.

[JolietJake]

Just saying, Edwards is worth a fair amount and he still got shit for his haircuts.

[SpazX]

In fairness to Cindy, that represents a lower percentage of her net worth than the shorts, ripped t-shirt, and flip-flops do of the bubba buying a pack of smokes at the local 7-11.

Which is why I support a flat tax!

[Koggit]

I think you're confusing flat tax with fair tax. Flat tax is awful, fair tax is even worse.

[fatherofcaitlyn]

OK, but don't come crying to me when your investments don't work out and you don't have enough money for retirement. I can't tell you how many people I've met who bitched their whole lives about having to pay into the "socialist" security system, that the money was theirs, that they would know what to do with it, etc., only to have nada when they are old. What do they do then? They rely on social security, that's what.

Of all of these people, how many made a budget?

You can write down all of your monthly expenses and cut back until you have a sizable profit every month.

If you live on 90% of your income, invest 10% of your income in relatively safe investments with a 7% rate of return after inflation, you'll have 13.5 times your annual income saved after 30 years.

If you live on 80% of your income and do the same as above in terms of investments, you'll have 10 times your annual income saved after 20 years.

Once you have 10 times your annual income saved, everything after that is icing on the cake.

Did these people know that? Did you?

[mykevermin]

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/09/05/a-visibly-upset-keith-olbermann-castigates-rnc-911-tribute-video/

Video of RNC using 9/11 footage as propaganda.

[fatherofcaitlyn]

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/09/05/a-visibly-upset-keith-olbermann-castigates-rnc-911-tribute-video/

Video of RNC using 9/11 footage as propaganda.

I wonder why the audience wasn't chanting USA.

[RAMSTORIA]

mccain and obama speeches had the same amount of viewers. gop convention had a higher over all rating.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D930S7U81&show_article=1

[Ikohn4ever]

it was after the first football game of the season

[RAMSTORIA]

it was after the first football game of the season

i know, it would have been way higher if it wasnt for the boring 2nd half.

[MSI Magus]

You have to figure too that Republicans have 3 things going for them with ratings though.

1. Republicans tend to be more educated and higher income. This isnt to say that Republicans are smarter then liberals(nor dumber)but statistics have shown time and again that they are both.

2. Republicans tend to pay more attention to politics and vote.

3. Republicans tend to be older so more likely to watch something like a convention where Dems are younger and poorer thus less likely.

[bmulligan]

McCain's faux sincerity is hard to watch. Did he even read the damn speech before delivering it? Every 12 seconds he had the most annoying pauses and disjointedness in mid sentence that made it hard to follow. It made it even harder to believe the words were his own. Jesus, you'd think he'd be getting better coaching or at least be better practiced at this point in the game.

Listening him chant about he was going to "fight for us" in Washington has to be the most hackneyed slogan in politics, especially coming from someone who should have been fighting for us for the last 25 years he was in fucking Washington. It immediately brought back memories of Al Gore vowing to "fight for us" at his convention 8 years ago. How do people buy into this crap? Is there some hypnotic carrier wave broadcasting during television broadcasts that make everyone stupid ? Apparently so.

[thrustbucket]

It's really not much different than a revival. What's said isn't as important as the delivery and frenzy around it.

[mykevermin]

You have to figure too that Republicans have 3 things going for them with ratings though.

1. Republicans tend to be more educated and higher income. This isnt to say that Republicans are smarter then liberals(nor dumber)but statistics have shown time and again that they are both.

2. Republicans tend to pay more attention to politics and vote.

3. Republicans tend to be older so more likely to watch something like a convention where Dems are younger and poorer thus less likely.

1. No. You're dead wrong on education. Dead fucking wrong.

2. Prove it.

3. Well, FOX News does take the cake amongst older listeners, and there must be a reason that conservative talk radio thrives while liberal radio dies despite the general attitude of the public being against the Bush administration. I'd chalk it up to talk/AM radio being an "older demographic" tech thing.

McCain's faux sincerity is hard to watch. Did he even read the damn speech before delivering it? Every 12 seconds he had the most annoying pauses and disjointedness in mid sentence that made it hard to follow. It made it even harder to believe the words were his own. Jesus, you'd think he'd be getting better coaching or at least be better practiced at this point in the game.

Listening him chant about he was going to "fight for us" in Washington has to be the most hackneyed slogan in politics, especially coming from someone who should have been fighting for us for the last 25 years he was in fucking Washington. It immediately brought back memories of Al Gore vowing to "fight for us" at his convention 8 years ago. How do people buy into this crap? Is there some hypnotic carrier wave broadcasting during television broadcasts that make everyone stupid ? Apparently so.

CNN's Jeffrey Toobin's reaction to the debate was pretty spot on, in my opinion. Not getting into anything he said, but more or less said it was the most boring and scatterbrained convention speech since Carter's in 1980.

[Tybee]

Listening him chant about he was going to "fight for us" in Washington has to be the most hackneyed slogan in politics, especially coming from someone who should have been fighting for us for the last 25 years he was in fucking Washington. It immediately brought back memories of Al Gore vowing to "fight for us" at his convention 8 years ago. How do people buy into this crap? Is there some hypnotic carrier wave broadcasting during television broadcasts that make everyone stupid ? Apparently so.

FYI: McCain used the word "fight" 43 times in the speech.

But remember! He HATES war and LOVES peace!

CNN's Jeffrey Toobin's reaction to the debate was pretty spot on, in my opinion. Not getting into anything he said, but more or less said it was the most boring and scatterbrained convention speech since Carter's in 1980.

Got ya covered:

I thought it was the worst speech by a nominee that I've heard since Jimmy Carter in 1980.
I thought it was disorganized, themeless, I thought it was very, very boring until the end when he started talking about his personal story, which is, of course, remarkable and always important to hear. I personally cannot remember a single policy proposal that he made because they had nothing connecting them. I found it shockingly bad.

[dopa345]

OK, but don't come crying to me when your investments don't work out and you don't have enough money for retirement. I can't tell you how many people I've met who bitched their whole lives about having to pay into the "socialist" security system, that the money was theirs, that they would know what to do with it, etc., only to have nada when they are old. What do they do then? They rely on social security, that's what.

Historically, investing in the stock market is the only reliable way to outpace inflation in the long term. A properly diversified portfolio will net a 8-10% rate of return per year. That's why it would be far more efficient for each individual to save up for their own retirement rather than force us to pay into a social security system which in all likelihood won't even be there by the time our generation retires.

[MSI Magus]

1. No. You're dead wrong on education. Dead fucking wrong.

2. Prove it.

3. Well, FOX News does take the cake amongst older listeners, and there must be a reason that conservative talk radio thrives while liberal radio dies despite the general attitude of the public being against the Bush administration. I'd chalk it up to talk/AM radio being an "older demographic" tech thing.



CNN's Jeffrey Toobin's reaction to the debate was pretty spot on, in my opinion. Not getting into anything he said, but more or less said it was the most boring and scatterbrained convention speech since Carter's in 1980.

I cant prove it, but its what I was taught in political science class, history class, and have seen brought up in numerous shows iv watched. It also makes perfect sense.

[mykevermin]

Well, they're all wrong.

http://sda.berkeley.edu/cgi-bin/hsda?harcsda+gss06

Here's a link to the GSS. Try inputting the variables "educ1" in the row box and "partyid" in the second box. You'll see correlations all over the place - which include a slight concentration of people with bachelor's degrees leaning weak Republican, at the same time you'll find that having a graduate or professional degree takes people all the way in the opposite direction, to leaning strong Democrat.

[Allnatural]

Here's a good idea: give everybody an option to opt out of Social Security. If I opt out, put it on my paycheck tax free. I can buy disability insurance, life insurance and put more money into retirement on my own.
Truth! :applause:

[Msut77]

Historically, investing in the stock market is the only reliable way to outpace inflation in the long term. A properly diversified portfolio will net a 8-10% rate of return per year. That's why it would be far more efficient for each individual to save up for their own retirement rather than force us to pay into a social security system which in all likelihood won't even be there by the time our generation retires.

Interesting use of the word historically.

You may have noticed there have been long stretches in the past of when stocks (on the whole) have lost much of their value? They may bounce back but there is no guarantee you will be alive long enough to enjoy the benefits of your little factoid. It helps to think of Social Security as retirement insurance, last I checked 401ks have been taking a beating what with lower returns and people withdrawing from them to live on.

[mykevermin]

Privatizing Social Security is a great idea IF you hand all of the money over to the worker. I can invest my money much better than how Social Security does it (IOUs).

However, the GWB gubmint plan was to play the stock market for me. Thanks, but I don't really want a bureaucrat who couldn't cut it in the real world as an investment banker bouncing my money around Wall Street.

Here's a good idea: give everybody an option to opt out of Social Security. If I opt out, put it on my paycheck tax free. I can buy disability insurance, life insurance and put more money into retirement on my own.

Here's the thing, and something someone else may have brought up on CAG already in the past week:

allowing investment of SS as something that is to be determined by each user is folly.

Suppose someone takes their life savings and bets it on a roulette wheel. They make an easy 50/50 bet on black.

They win. Do we suddenly applaud this person for making a "wise decision"?

What if it lands on Red 13?

Social Security is a fine means of protecting your retirement from YOU. Sure, some people would do better with their money (though they don't seem to be too interested in doing better with the majority of their pay they already receive). And some wouldn't.

At that point, we're back at square one, no?

That's the problem with privatizing SS. That and the fact that the only reason it's an "IOU" currently is because our federal government is so overspending itself that it takes the SS money and uses it on its superfluous deficit spending.

SS, if left alone, is perfectly fine and solvent.

[fatherofcaitlyn]

Interesting use of the word historically.

You may have noticed there have been long stretches in the past of when stocks (on the whole) have lost much of their value? They may bounce back but there is no guarantee you will be alive long enough to enjoy the benefits of your little factoid. It helps to think of Social Security as retirement insurance, last I checked 401ks have been taking a beating what with lower returns and people withdrawing from them to live on.

I can't find the source, but I believe there is only one 5 year period when stocks made no money and no 10 year periods when stocks made no money since its inception.

Unless the global civilization collapses or an investor panics or the portfolio isn't diversified, they haven't lost any money in their 401Ks.

If a person has to cash out their 401K to survive, he or she needs to draw up a budget to figure out where the shortfall is coming from. It might be obvious such as losing a job to overseas or from incompetence OR it might be that shiny new car with lease payments that consumes 20-30 hours worth of wages.

Social Security should not be defended as simply a retirement program. If my wife or I were to die, the survivors' benefits with having two kids are almost worth more than either of our wages. If either of us becomes disabled, Social Security will keep us out of a cardboard box.

All that being said, I could outperform Social Security with private life and disability insurances and prudent investments.

[Msut77]

I can't find the source, but I believe there is only one 5 year period when stocks made no money and no 10 year periods when stocks made no money since its inception.

What about very little money?

But anyhoo the point still stands, 5-10 years is a long time for an elderly person and we are making the assumption the person would not be forced back into working etc.

Social Security should not be defended as simply a retirement program. If my wife or I were to die, the survivors' benefits with having two kids are almost worth more than either of our wages. If either of us becomes disabled, Social Security will keep us out of a cardboard box.

Aren't you the one arguing against SS?

All that being said, I could outperform Social Security with private life and disability insurances and prudent investments.

One could, but one also could not through no fault of ones own.

[fatherofcaitlyn]

Social Security is a fine means of protecting your retirement from YOU.

This is where we're going to agree to disagree.

Our educational system doesn't stress little things like personal finance.

Hell, our educational system stresses going into debt because of some great payoff in the future.

Outside of education, the government runs lotteries and advertises them everywhere. I'm sure somebody could insert something clever about casinos here, but I'm drawing a blank.

Debt is sold very sexily whether it be a new car, a plasma screen TV, a speedboat, a bigger house, a second house on the lake or Hookerbot 5000.
People need to rise above those temptations or choose to work until the day they die.

[mykevermin]

Well, let me add a caveat: protect your retirement from you and the market.

[MSI Magus]

This is where we're going to agree to disagree.

Our educational system doesn't stress little things like personal finance.

Hell, our educational system stresses going into debt because of some great payoff in the future.

Outside of education, the government runs lotteries and advertises them everywhere. I'm sure somebody could insert something clever about casinos here, but I'm drawing a blank.

Debt is sold very sexily whether it be a new car, a plasma screen TV, a speedboat, a bigger house, a second house on the lake or Hookerbot 5000.
People need to rise above those temptations or choose to work until the day they die.

I think that every high schooler should have a mandated class called basic living. Part of the year would revolve around stuff like how to change a tire, just that basic stuff everyone should know how to do that no one does anymore because their parents dont teach them. But a second huge portion of the class would be about finances and employment. The proper steps to go through when looking for a job and having an interview with an employer. How to balance a check book, responsible credit card usage and why investing in an IRA, 401k or some other plan is important as well as showing them how to go about it.

Its sad....but people really dont teach their kids even the basics anymore. Whenever I moved out I had no clue how to cook, no clue how to set up a bank acount, pay my bills or do ANYTHING and I know tons of others like this too.

[HowStern]

I cant prove it, but its what I was taught in political science class, history class, and have seen brought up in numerous shows iv watched. It also makes perfect sense.

>cant
>iv

So, you're a democrat then by these standards? :P

Also, It doesn't make any sense at all. Mykevermin proved that with the link he provided.

The RNC probably had such high ratings because everyone fell asleep from boredom and this left them unable to change the station.

[MSI Magus]

Well, let me add a caveat: protect your retirement from you and the market.

I think you have to really screw up your investments to come out broke or with less then you invested in the first place. My fiancee just started investing in her 401k and it gave her 2 sets of estimates, one for if the market performs badly 1 for if it performs at historical standards. If the market performs at an average her $206,000 investment will grow to 2.5 freaking million. If it performs badly then they still expected it to grow to 1.7 million. It seems like even if the market just fell apart at its seams she would still retire with atleast double her investment but as it stands she is more then likely to get like 10x or more out of it.