Community Feedback Poll - Game Piracy

[Moxio]

I'm gonna hafta agree with Trakan.

[darthbudge]

I'm gonna hafta agree with Trakan.

Yep.

Even though it was kinda funny watching them go at it, it certainly as no place in this thread.

[Wolfkin]

three pages to go and I couldn't make it.

I <3 how this decision is going to be made by a majority of people who are very ignorant to what is being discussed./win seriously this is about posting about games not the actual pirating itself.

No, I don't think it should be allowed. Sadly, I think most people will post "reviews" with the sole intention to brag that they've finished the game first. Honest, genuine reviews are a different story, but how would you filter the good from the bad?People would do that anyway. Is there a different between someone posting reviews of games like Oblivion, GTA, Too Human, Fallout 3, Gran Turismo on release day? Clearly these are games that are going to require more than a day to play but you can bet people will post 'reviews' and 'impressions' the hour they get it. This is a forum. Not an official publication. Nothing anyone does here is the 'official cag review' or anything like that. As long as CheapyD isn't doing it there's no guarantee of quality in any review whether it's a week early, on D-Day or a month later. You can't use the time period as a basis of quality in a review. I just picked up Metroid Prime 3 yesterday. I could write on my impressions and you can't say it's not bad based on the fact that I've had 'a year plus' to play it.

Hell no they shouldn't be able to talk about it. The only people who should post personal hands-on impressions of unreleased games are people who've played a demo, or people in the industry who got to play them early, such as MarkMan. Otherwise I'd say it's grounds for a bannination. Why? If companies get wind of this shit, they may very well try to shut down this site even though it's not directly responsible for the piracy. Even if nothing came of it, it'd still be a huge hassle for Cheapy.I think it's been argued over and over that since none of these reviews are official. Heck none of them make it to the front page there's no reason for any company to come after CAG. CheapyD and his crew of mods will still ban anyone who links to pirating or instructs on how to do it but these question is about just talking the game. Not encouraging pirating.

Can't we just all get along?what are we carebears?

I guess I shouldn't get so worked up. This little censorship game will be unenforceable anyway.just because you can't enforce it properly doesn't mean it won't be 'enforced'. Watch for scads of people getting games early and before the 'internet' gets wind of the pre-release availability of the game. Many of these early reviewers will be banned as pirates. (unless they have receipt scans: no pics = no proof)

I do hope this poll will be reposted in a form where it can be voted on legitimately instead of people voting on a completely different issue than what is at hand.All that is requires is further elaboration of the question and what it means (discussion/reviewing games) and what it does not (pirating discussion/instruction/linking/openly flaunting/bragging). It doesn't matter where you put the vote long as these things are explained that's the best we can do. Still bank on half of these people voting on the wrong issue and blowing it all out of proportion.

I'm down for letting them post impressions of the game. I could care less if that takes sales away from the game industry. Maybe they should make better games...

As for posting reviews of early releases, I'm not a fan.I'm all for actual discussion but I have to ask what's the difference between a review and discussion. it's the same. If someone is posting reviews based on alpha code that sucks for them because it's a sucky review. Doesn't mean that shouldn't be allowed to do it. What if they discuss the game but don't label it a review. You bring up good arguments but one that part I disagre.

[dmaul1114]

Posting early impressions is fine. Some people get games early legitimately (stores break date, work at a game store that got them in early and let employees take them etc.) so there's no way to tell who pirated it and who didn't.

But if there's any mention of pirating (how they got it, or even alluding that the pirated it) the post should be deleted and infractions handed out with temp or perm bans for repeat offenses.

[Omatsei]

I haven't read the last 26 pages, nor do I plan to (that's a lot of reading, and I just don't feel like it), but I have to say that I personally would have benefited from reading some early reviews of Too Human, and now I'm really reconsidering my purchase of The Force Unleashed. If it's anything like Too Human, I'll play it for a couple hours, then regret I bought it... so if someone else wants to break the law, I have no problem hearing about their opinions. As long as it's only their opinions and reviews, I can't see any downside. If they're giving instructions on how to hack a console or something, then the argument can be made that this isn't the place for it.

[DQT]

Guys, forget all of this "Was it pirated? Was it bought early at a store? Can you provide a receipt and picture for proof?" He's not asking about any of that.

He's saying to assume that people did pirate a game. Can that person discuss the game before its release date on CAG? Just discussion. Not necessarily reviews, not direct links or how to's. Piracy itself wouldn't even be mentioned in the posts.

Let's say I got Gears 2 early. Would me writing up my thoughts on the game or initial impressions before the game was out be a big deal? That's what Cheapy is asking.

Yes I think it would be a big deal, but to disallow it doesn't seem feasible.

[Ugamer_X]

I'd just like to take a moment here to recognize my efforts in spearheading this movement against the pirates of CAG. If it were not for my groundbreaking story (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/blog.php?b=53) revealing the nature and whereabouts of the hackers, CAG would not be making the steps that it is today.

I'd also like to have a moment of silence honoring the work of Inufaye and DarkSlayer, who are no longer with us after falling victim to the hackers.

.

.

.

.

.

Thank you.

[drone8888]

So.... what about when the Circuit City deals were announced a few years back. Didn't Cheapy fight for anonymity when the lawyers asked for IP's?

[RollingSkull]

just because you can't enforce it properly doesn't mean it won't be 'enforced'. Watch for scads of people getting games early and before the 'internet' gets wind of the pre-release availability of the game. Many of these early reviewers will be banned as pirates. (unless they have receipt scans: no pics = no proof)
So you're in favor of mods stopping folks doing "early" impressions/reviews and saying "Papers, please? Fail to comply and you will be banned. You should have no problem with this, as you have nothing to hide... right?"

SERIOUSLY? Even GameFAQs doesn't do that.

Like I said, Scarlet P, baby! That's what it is all about. Oh what a great board in which we live, where iniquities such as piracy are dragged out into the light.

[FiendCameron]

the source of the game should not matter. as long as it does not promote piracy, such as state it was pirated or link to pirated programs, it should not matter. a game is a game.

[HERETOSTAY]

Of course not. You can't support piracy like that.

[Skylander7]

I'd just like to take a moment here to recognize my efforts in spearheading this movement against the pirates of CAG. If it were not for my groundbreaking story (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/blog.php?b=53) revealing the nature and whereabouts of the hackers, CAG would not be making the steps that it is today.

I'd also like to have a moment of silence honoring the work of Inufaye and DarkSlayer, who are no longer with us after falling victim to the hackers.

Thank you.

This.. has to be.. either one of the douchiest things I've ever seen on CAG... or comedic gold.

[GogetaSS4]

Buying a preowned game helps the publisher in that Gamestop is a publicly traded company so publishers have detailed reports on their earnings. They see that Gamestop is profiting from used games so they start producing DLC and even whole downloadable games that become locked into the purchasers system.
Plus, the distribution of a preowned game to a pirated rom is much smaller. So the original purchaser to end owner is more of a 1:1 ratio vs the 1:XXXX ratio of online piracy.
That all said, of course you should buy new if you want to encourage the developer to continue to make similar games. Buying used or piracy both send the message to the developer that 'this isn't worth my money'.

Not really cause for me it tells developers that I'm broke and I can't afford the new games I have to get them used most of the time cause I'm broke.

[Sn0brawler]

the source of the game should not matter. as long as it does not promote piracy, such as state it was pirated or link to pirated programs, it should not matter. a game is a game.

This reflects my reasoning as well.

[evilmojo12542]

i vote no. there are ways to review games without pirating a game. personally i do not want to know everything about a game takes away from it

[blacksanta87]

who gives a crap if its pirated.? SCREW the gaming indistry. Why do we have to spend over 120 dollars just to buy 2 new games? I litterly CANT afford it.
Then they wonder why used gaming shops are getting richer and expanding faster than ever, stealing even more of their sales. the day when games can only be bought via online = fuck gaming . These companys really know how to suck the fun out of playing video games.

[bigdaddybruce44]

who gives a crap if its pirated.? SCREW the gaming indistry. Why do we have to spend over 120 dollars just to buy 2 new games? I litterly CANT afford it.
Then they wonder why used gaming shops are getting richer and expanding faster than ever, stealing even more of their sales. the day when games can only be bought via online = fuck gaming . These companys really know how to suck the fun out of playing video games.

...wow...that's some good logic. You know what's expensive, too? Sports cars! Would you steal them, too?

[kev]

Information wants to be free. The end.

When FOX decides it is ok for me to use a TWO SECOND simpsons clip in a youtube video for my CLASSROOM then I'll care about corporate concerns about information. Until then, all information should be free. Stop those who openly admit to piracy but to stop them from writing about something is frankly, terrible.

And I say this as a business loving, gun toting republican.

[OneWingedAngeI]

it would be ridiculously hypocritical to support speedy, store errors that result in huge discounts, broken street dates, and all of the other questionable stuff that is what this site thrives on, while condemning people who are not even proven as guilty.

tbh no one has any right what so ever to demand proof of where a game came from. there are several non-pirate ways people can get a game early. no one is guilty until proven innocent and the burden of proof is on the accuser, not the accused.

if someone talks about pirating the game they should be actioned, but until that they should have their right to privacy just like when speedy's privacy was championed.

[lilboo]

Sorry to derail this (even though it's been derailed a million times), but what does Speedy (and anyone else who does this) do that's so bad? I don't see how checking out a weekly ad 2 weeks before it's out is bad?

I remember CiruitCity was pissed because we found out about the PS3 price drop and thus sales stopped for a week or 2? (Something along those lines)..but I don't see how any of that is bad.

[shipwreck]

it would be ridiculously hypocritical to support speedy, store errors that result in huge discounts, broken street dates, and all of the other questionable stuff that is what this site thrives on, while condemning people who are not even proven as guilty.

tbh no one has any right what so ever to demand proof of where a game came from. there are several non-pirate ways people can get a game early. no one is guilty until proven innocent and the burden of proof is on the accuser, not the accused.

if someone talks about pirating the game they should be actioned, but until that they should have their right to privacy just like when speedy's privacy was championed.

C'mon now, do you really think we don't know who is pirating games?

I'm tired of this "you can't prove it" argument. It's insulting to think that we can't tell. If we couldn't tell, there wouldn't have been a poll in the first place.

[darthbudge]

C'mon now, do you really think we don't know who is pirating games?

I'm tired of this "you can't prove it" argument. It's insulting to think that we can't tell. If we couldn't tell, there wouldn't have been a poll in the first place.

Proving something, is not the same as just having a very good feeling about something.

If you say someone pirated the game, you are only going based off other facts that you know, such as, this person always gets games early, we have seen him talking about piracy before and so on.

That is not PROOF that they pirated something, instead just an educated guess, and ultimately you cannot crucify someone on an educated guess.

PROOF, would be having a picture of them with the pirated disc, or having them coming out and admitting it or some other way that you have a 100% certainty that they indeed pirated the game.

Now, this is Cheapy's house and he can do whatever he wants. However, I believe that this poll should be rendered invalid because it completely leads people to believe that the only possible way someone could get a game early is through piracy, and that simply is not true.

[bubbafett4hire]

C'mon now, do you really think we don't know who is pirating games?

I'm tired of this "you can't prove it" argument. It's insulting to think that we can't tell. If we couldn't tell, there wouldn't have been a poll in the first place.

Xbox Live and Wii Connect 24 still can't and if they can havn't done much to stop it

Proving something, is not the same as just having a very good feeling about something.

If you say someone pirated the game, you are only going based off other facts that you know, such as, this person always gets games early, we have seen him talking about piracy before and so on.

That is not PROOF that they pirated something, instead just an educated guess, and ultimately you cannot crucify someone on an educated guess.

PROOF, would be having a picture of them with the pirated disc, or having them coming out and admitting it or some other way that you have a 100% certainty that they indeed pirated the game.

Now, this is Cheapy's house and he can do whatever he wants. However, I believe that this poll should be rendered invalid because it completely leads people to believe that the only possible way someone could get a game early is through piracy, and that simply is not true.

well put

[seanr1221]

C'mon now, do you really think we don't know who is pirating games?

I'm tired of this "you can't prove it" argument. It's insulting to think that we can't tell. If we couldn't tell, there wouldn't have been a poll in the first place.

It's pretty easy to tell by the people getting their panties in a bunch over a poll :lol:

[manthing]

C'mon now, do you really think we don't know who is pirating games?

I'm tired of this "you can't prove it" argument. It's insulting to think that we can't tell. If we couldn't tell, there wouldn't have been a poll in the first place.


Please explain this 'proof' you have...

Inference =/= proof

Tell us HOW you can prove piracy please..

[shipwreck]

Proving something, is not the same as just having a very good feeling about something.

If you say someone pirated the game, you are only going based off other facts that you know, such as, this person always gets games early, we have seen him talking about piracy before and so on.

That is not PROOF that they pirated something, instead just an educated guess, and ultimately you cannot crucify someone on an educated guess.

PROOF, would be having a picture of them with the pirated disc, or having them coming out and admitting it or some other way that you have a 100% certainty that they indeed pirated the game.

Now, this is Cheapy's house and he can do whatever he wants. However, I believe that this poll should be rendered invalid because it completely leads people to believe that the only possible way someone could get a game early is through piracy, and that simply is not true.

Why do we need proof again? Like I said, I'm tired of the "you can't prove it argument". We wouldn't need PROOF. Just look at your argument, I think an educated guess based upon repeated actions is plenty. And who knows, maybe we have a Local Connect where we would get all our proof from.

Please explain this 'proof' you have...

Inference =/= proof

Tell us HOW you can prove piracy please..

See above, we have Local Connects.

[bubbafett4hire]

hell many of the old Gamestop employees will back me up on this one, I remember GS having Project Gotham Racing 2 4 weeks before street date and the employees taking them home to play it. Guess there pirtaes too

[Halo05]

Why do we need proof again? Like I said, I'm tired of the "you can't prove it argument". We wouldn't need PROOF. Just look at your argument, I think an educated guess based upon repeated actions is plenty. And who knows, maybe we have a Local Connect where we would get all our proof from.

Pretty much this. Posting on CAG Forums isn't a protected right, it's a privilege that can be stripped for any reason or no reason at all. If that somehow offends you either grow thicker skin or take your serious internet business elsewhere.

[seanr1221]

hell many of the old Gamestop employees will back me up on this one, I remember GS having Project Gotham Racing 2 4 weeks before street date and the employees taking them home to play it. Guess there pirtaes too

Quoted for epic-ness :rofl:

[manthing]

Why do we need proof again? Like I said, I'm tired of the "you can't prove it argument". We wouldn't need PROOF. Just look at your argument, I think an educated guess based upon repeated actions is plenty. And who knows, maybe we have a Local Connect where we would get all our proof from.



See above, we have Local Connects.


His house, his rules, I get it...

But you still lack incriminating proof...

[bigdaddybruce44]

1) More likely than not, if someone is talking about a game that isn't out yet, they probably pirated it. How many people on here do you actually think have legitimate access to games before they are released? Seriously....

2) If someone is playing a legitimate copy that they took from a store they work at before it was released, that obviously isn't piracy, but that still isn't right. The game has not hit its street date.

[bubbafett4hire]

i still wanna know what this local connect thing is ? i have a local connect and all he knows is weed. Also i wanna know how you can make a conviction when in a court of law you are innocent until proven guilty with evidence

[manthing]

A local mom & pop shop where I go waaay back w/ the manager...


Street Dates =/= Ship Dates

[Liquid 2]

Why do we need proof again? Like I said, I'm tired of the "you can't prove it argument". We wouldn't need PROOF. Just look at your argument, I think an educated guess based upon repeated actions is plenty. And who knows, maybe we have a Local Connect where we would get all our proof from.Will you make people prove that they own a game after the ship date, or will you assume that they pirated it too?
Piracy can happen after a game ships too, you know.

And just look at your argument: you're assuming many CAGs are guilty with no reason to. You're going to alienate your userbase--the core of this site--with your absurd "guilty until proven innocent" philosophy.

[mguiddy]

You're going to alienate your userbase--the core of this site--with your absurd "guilty until proven innocent" philosophy.
You know... most of the userbase probably wouldn't/won't care.

[bigdaddybruce44]

I don't see this really affecting enough people to alienate any user base, especially considering a great many people in this thread seem to be for this in a big way.

[kev]

Sorry to derail this (even though it's been derailed a million times), but what does Speedy (and anyone else who does this) do that's so bad? I don't see how checking out a weekly ad 2 weeks before it's out is bad?

I remember CiruitCity was pissed because we found out about the PS3 price drop and thus sales stopped for a week or 2? (Something along those lines)..but I don't see how any of that is bad.

Speedy provides us with (arguably) copywrited (ugh, that isn't a word but oh well) material. The corporations own that material and therefore argue that they control it.

I say, no way. Information wants to be free. So again, let the information out regardless of where it came from.

[seanr1221]

I say, no way. Information wants to be free. So again, let the information out regardless of where it came from.

Technically no, information is not free to be passed on. At least in the business sense.

[bigdaddybruce44]

I have a feeling certain people would have a different stance regarding information if they actually had any that was worth something. It's easy to say that information should be free when you haven't created anything of value.

[pimpinc333]

it would be ridiculously hypocritical to support speedy, store errors that result in huge discounts, broken street dates, and all of the other questionable stuff that is what this site thrives on, while condemning people who are not even proven as guilty.

tbh no one has any right what so ever to demand proof of where a game came from. there are several non-pirate ways people can get a game early. no one is guilty until proven innocent and the burden of proof is on the accuser, not the accused.

if someone talks about pirating the game they should be actioned, but until that they should have their right to privacy just like when speedy's privacy was championed.

Proving something, is not the same as just having a very good feeling about something.

If you say someone pirated the game, you are only going based off other facts that you know, such as, this person always gets games early, we have seen him talking about piracy before and so on.

That is not PROOF that they pirated something, instead just an educated guess, and ultimately you cannot crucify someone on an educated guess.

PROOF, would be having a picture of them with the pirated disc, or having them coming out and admitting it or some other way that you have a 100% certainty that they indeed pirated the game.

Now, this is Cheapy's house and he can do whatever he wants. However, I believe that this poll should be rendered invalid because it completely leads people to believe that the only possible way someone could get a game early is through piracy, and that simply is not true.

Will you make people prove that they own a game after the ship date, or will you assume that they pirated it too?
Piracy can happen after a game ships too, you know.

And just look at your argument: you're assuming many CAGs are guilty with no reason to. You're going to alienate your userbase--the core of this site--with your absurd "guilty until proven innocent" philosophy.

:applause::applause::applause:

Well Said.

Just caught back up on this thread and these were by far the best replies.

[KuragariNoKaze]

While piracy may be bad, companies who produce crappy games and pay for their reviews are much worse. Since website and magazine reviews are essentially untrustworthy, an honest review from a source whose motives I don't have to question is much more useful.

EA is pretty much the antithesis of good software engineering practices and I have no sympathy for whining over piracy due to the fact they're biggest and crappiest publisher around.

So if people pirate a game to see if they want to buy it or let people know whether or not they should buy it, I have a hard time seeing a problem.

I feel bad for the honest people working hard to create a game, but I have no sympathy for the CEO bastards that have no real involvement in the process other than forcing a game out before completion and leaving players with less value for their money.

[RollingSkull]

EA is pretty much the antithesis of good software engineering practices and I have no sympathy for whining over piracy due to the fact they're biggest and crappiest publisher around.


Lolno, EA has made and published some of the best games of this and the previous generation.

[RollingSkull]

Why do we need proof again? Like I said, I'm tired of the "you can't prove it argument". We wouldn't need PROOF. Just look at your argument, I think an educated guess based upon repeated actions is plenty. And who knows, maybe we have a Local Connect where we would get all our proof from.

See above, we have Local Connects.
Ah, the petty internet jackass route. Sorry, I forgot for a second that CAG mods WEREN'T any different than the standard IRC OP jackoff.

[pimpinc333]

Lolno, EA has made and published some of the best games of this and the previous generation.

I'm not saying they did or didn't but could you name them?

[RollingSkull]

I'm not saying they did or didn't but could you name them?

007: Everything or Nothing. Tiger Woods remains, for all its rehashing, the top tier golf sim. Def Jam Fight for New York is spectacular. Def Jam Icon tried to be innovative in a way that not a single game company has tried in ages. They published Timesplitters: FP. Mercs 2 (I don't care what the reviews say, I haven't had more than like two glitches and nothing that isn't a glitch in most every other game.), Boom Blox.

[Strell]

This thread just made its own rule.

It's in the Game Rule: The longer an internet argument goes on that is video game centric, the more likely it will devolve into talking about how much EA does or does not suck.

[RollingSkull]

This thread just made its own rule.

It's in the Game Rule: The longer an internet argument goes on that is video game centric, the more likely it will devolve into talking about how much EA does or does not suck.
If it weren't for the fact that so many internets videogamesters used it as their daily 5 minute hate boogeyman next to their charred effigy of Jack Thompson...

[Bloodbooger]

When are we going to see the results of the poll Cheapy?

[Wolve11]

This thread just made its own rule.

It's in the Game Rule: The longer an internet argument goes on that is video game centric, the more likely it will devolve into talking about how much EA does or does not suck.

It is the evolution of video game conversations.

[ButcherShopCandy]

So, the ehtical and moral person may be inclined to say that a review or impression of a game obtained prior to official release is tainted by the means of acquisition (assuming it was illegal in nature). I have a couple of retorts.

First, are we attempting to "protect" the multi billion dollar gaming industry from itself? The pirated copy had to be generated from the developer so what we are really talking about is the gamers acting as the loss prevention office of a company that obviously needs to do a better job either hiring trustworthy employees or closing security holes. They have far more money to address these problems than we do (heck, we're still paying for the developer's security whenever we buy a game).

Second, is this any more or less tasteless than publishers requiring detailed and restricitive contracts that impede honest review from video game reviewers? Certain reviewers have been fired or quit from high profile gigs lately because they refused to write favorably about games they felt were crap. According to the contract terms, the reviewer could not write about flaws in exchange for having advance review copies of the game. Sony recently did this with MSG4. Ultimately they backed off the position but the original review contract stated that the reviewer could not mention the long load times and other "negatives" that may damage sales. To me, this is a blatant attempt of publishers/developer to essentially steal a consumer's money through misleading and dishonest means.

Finally, with the exclusive rights deals in football and baseball, the industry has shown that they would rather avoid fair competition when possible. If the industry isn't interested in a competitive process that gets the gamers the best quality products, then why should we care if they can't control their own staffs' inclinations to leak games?

Overall it seems to me that the vast majority of games that come out are crap. Most of the time the flaws and issues should be pretty easy to pick up in testing (talking to you 2K Sports) but somehow the games get released. This seems to be the companies giving us the collective finger. I know not all developers are like this (thank you Ubi Soft and Bungie) but there are enough that make me ambivalent to their security issues.

When it comes right down to it, the only companies hurt by this type of thing would be those preparing to release a crappy game under false pretenses. Otherwise, the poor quality would be known at release or the consumer is going to be fleeced. I'd rather have the consumers' best interest in mind instead of the game company's. Afterall, we're not talking about selling pirated copies just giving people a heads up on a new release.

Just my two cents.

[bubbafett4hire]

So, the ehtical and moral person may be inclined to say that a review or impression of a game obtained prior to official release is tainted by the means of acquisition (assuming it was illegal in nature). I have a couple of retorts.

First, are we attempting to "protect" the multi billion dollar gaming industry from itself? The pirated copy had to be generated from the developer so what we are really talking about is the gamers acting as the loss prevention office of a company that obviously needs to do a better job either hiring trustworthy employees or closing security holes. They have far more money to address these problems than we do (heck, we're still paying for the developer's security whenever we buy a game).

Second, is this any more or less tasteless than publishers requiring detailed and restricitive contracts that impede honest review from video game reviewers? Certain reviewers have been fired or quit from high profile gigs lately because they refused to write favorably about games they felt were crap. According to the contract terms, the reviewer could not write about flaws in exchange for having advance review copies of the game. Sony recently did this with MSG4. Ultimately they backed off the position but the original review contract stated that the reviewer could not mention the long load times and other "negatives" that may damage sales. To me, this is a blatant attempt of publishers/developer to essentially steal a consumer's money through misleading and dishonest means.

Finally, with the exclusive rights deals in football and baseball, the industry has shown that they would rather avoid fair competition when possible. If the industry isn't interested in a competitive process that gets the gamers the best quality products, then why should we care if they can't control their own staffs' inclinations to leak games?

Overall it seems to me that the vast majority of games that come out are crap. Most of the time the flaws and issues should be pretty easy to pick up in testing (talking to you 2K Sports) but somehow the games get released. This seems to be the companies giving us the collective finger. I know not all developers are like this (thank you Ubi Soft and Bungie) but there are enough that make me ambivalent to their security issues.

When it comes right down to it, the only companies hurt by this type of thing would be those preparing to release a crappy game under false pretenses. Otherwise, the poor quality would be known at release or the consumer is going to be fleeced. I'd rather have the consumers' best interest in mind instead of the game company's. Afterall, we're not talking about selling pirated copies just giving people a heads up on a new release.

Just my two cents.
Very strong point

And just wanted to say that I pirated a early copy of Halo 3 just to finish the story from Halo 2, but i was still there waiting inline for the midnight release just like everyone else so not all pirates actually pirate

[phenommsu]

I would say no because companies use pirating as an excuse to keep prices higher and the fact that it is stealing is a red flag as well. However unless someone explicitly said, "I pirated this game and did not purchase it early", I do not know how you could enforce that rule.

"my rant" The "piraters" and the "companies" should come together in a new world order and type up some agreement that if prices go down pirating goes down.
LOL. But that crazy of course.

[phenommsu]

[quote=bubbafett4hire;4854231]

Also I agree with him.

[Covnam]

Yes, because the source of the game does not change a person's impressions, as long as they state that the game is not a retail/final version.

[Strell]

When it comes right down to it, the only companies hurt by this type of thing would be those preparing to release a crappy game under false pretenses.

This is a completely naive way of looking at it, since you could argue poor impressions scare people way in the same frequency good impressions might push someone toward a game. But if that is the case and a game is considered worth it, why do you make the jump and assume they'll buy it once it's released? A good impression could just as easily encourage someone to download it immediately.

But since the general attitude of this site if that pirating a game doesn't hurt the industry, I'm not going to defend this point at all. I'm merely pointing out that to say it "only hurts...the bad companies" is being overly idealistic about the entire process.

Yes, because the source of the game does not change a person's impressions

Really? It doesn't?

It's kind of like having someone buy you bad pizza. The pizza might be bad, but hey, it was free. So it wasn't all bad.

I guess the assumption here is that if you wasted time getting the game to begin with and it was shitty, then you're going to call it shitty no matter what. But to say the source doesn't alter the final impression is a little too strong a statement to make.

[Omatsei]

Why do we need proof again? Like I said, I'm tired of the "you can't prove it argument". We wouldn't need PROOF. Just look at your argument, I think an educated guess based upon repeated actions is plenty. And who knows, maybe we have a Local Connect where we would get all our proof from.

I'm really bothered by the implications here. I'm not going to presume to tell you what to do, but I will say that I first came to this site because it was an open forum for gamers to talk about what they wanted, without fear of (insert corporation name here) deleting posts or banning users that disagreed with their corporate views. If you want to belittle or dismiss that distinction, that's your prerogative, but you'll do so at the risk of losing the popularity you've acquired. I refuse to participate in forums on playstation.com or xbox.com because the very mention of certain things results in unhappy results (ranging from deleted posts to permaban).

Also, Cheapy, just so you know, it's not very difficult to search and find the best deals on video games... that's not why CAG is popular (and the fact that the CAG Lifestyle & OT forum has more posts than any 2 of the other forums combined proves this). CAG is popular because it is an independent site where gamers can "hang out" and discuss gaming culture, including, but not exclusively, good prices on things. If this site starts to severely punish forum members based on someone's personal morals, I, for one, won't be around for long.

[bubbafett4hire]

It's kind of like having someone buy you bad pizza. The pizza might be bad, but hey, it was free. So it wasn't all bad.

I guess the assumption here is that if you wasted time getting the game to begin with and it was shitty, then you're going to call it shitty no matter what. But to say the source doesn't alter the final impression is a little too strong a statement to make.

yes and no and your point is very true and i agree with you%100 as i know people who use the line all day "but it was free so who cares" but to be fair i received a free copy of Bullet Witch for the 360 (not by piracy either) and can tell you thank god i didn't pay money for it cause it got thrown into the re gift box about and hour into the game. Same holds true for Turning point fall of liberty got it for free day it came out cause wife surprised me but not that great of a game but in the sense of me saying for a opinion of the game I'd still say "it's a great game plot of the what if, surround sound awesome when firing a weapon better then COD4, visuals ok but not close to COD4 but still not half bad buy but wait till its in the clearance rack as missing this one won't hurt you" even though it was still free

As it has been said 100 times over as long as they give a fair review of the game and keep in mind what makes a game such as story, controls,visuals, sound ,etc then the source of the game won't effect a review of the game at all. I am sorry i just can't see someone saying that "even though the controls suck and the graphics look like a 2 drew them this game is awesome" just cause they got it for free. I know many pirates who won't download or copy a crappy game just to add it to their collection cause whats the point if the game does truly suck.

[IAmTheCheapestGamer]

who gives a crap if its pirated.? SCREW the gaming indistry. Why do we have to spend over 120 dollars just to buy 2 new games? I litterly CANT afford it.
Then they wonder why used gaming shops are getting richer and expanding faster than ever, stealing even more of their sales. the day when games can only be bought via online = fuck gaming . These companys really know how to suck the fun out of playing video games.

I'm with you when digital downloads are the norm. That's the generation when I stop gaming and just play the older systems I have. I refuse to pay full price for a copy of a game I don't own a physical copy of.

As for the $120 for 2 games, I'm assuming you don't have a Kmart, Target or Toys R'Us nearby? They've been a godsend for me as far as getting games cheap goes. If I've paid for 2-3 games at or near full retail in the past 3-5 years, it's a miracle. Clearances and sales are your friend.

As far as piracy though, I'm still against it, though I'd still like to see what can be done on the old Xbox(as I still have mine in the closet someplace). But I digress on that.

[bubbafett4hire]

I'm with you when digital downloads are the norm. That's the generation when I stop gaming and just play the older systems I have. I refuse to pay full price for a copy of a game I don't own a physical copy of.

As for the $120 for 2 games, I'm assuming you don't have a Kmart, Target or Toys R'Us nearby? They've been a godsend for me as far as getting games cheap goes. If I've paid for 2-3 games at or near full retail in the past 3-5 years, it's a miracle. Clearances and sales are your friend.

As far as piracy though, I'm still against it, though I'd still like to see what can be done on the old Xbox(as I still have mine in the closet someplace). But I digress on that.

old xbox's are great for Xbox Media Center which i don;t know if it breaking the rules to mention that or not but it won many Source Forge awards and a wonderful make over for the Xbox 1 .

[Koggit]

Too many posts about piracy, not enough posts about reviewing pirated video games...


Piracy: Bad. Duh.

Reviewing pirated games: A-OK.

[ratzombie]

I just don't see how it hurts CAG if some users want to post impressions early because they were able to pirate it.

It is not this website's job to police the internet, yeah it can be a problem if people are posting how and where to get pirated content. But that's not the case here, people posting about it in their blog and writing an impression about it is not the same. Come on... no one is forcing any of you to read what "teh evil pirate who is ruining this multi-billion industry!" is writing about.

[lilboo]

The problem now (imo) is if someone posts impressions of a game that's not out yet there's gonna be a ton of people who are gonna say "HOW DID YOU GET THIS?" "SHOW PROOF"..and thus, each & every topic will be derailed and lots of people will end up being banned.. :lol:

[bubbafett4hire]

The problem now (imo) is if someone posts impressions of a game that's not out yet there's gonna be a ton of people who are gonna say "HOW DID YOU GET THIS?" "SHOW PROOF"..and thus, each & every topic will be derailed and lots of people will end up being banned.. :lol:

Very good point and i can already see how that would create a problem but depending in what manner it was written, in can also save a lot of face such as some one saying "I just got a copy of game x and it rules" which will leave a lot of room open to asking how did you get it. While "My manager friend at game stop let me borrow his early release of game x " or "I ordered a game from my trusted vendor on eBay and got it early" which does happen from time to time as we've seen in the past. And if they want proof tell them "Don't take my word for it go get it yourself". Game Informer and other magazines and people said the last Xbox version of Leisure Suit Larry sucked but that didn't stop me from buying it and i thought it was a good game if people really want to know they try it for themselves look at 50 Cent Bulletproof.

On the other hand making it clear to anyone wanting to post something about a game they may have gotten early through what ever means cause we all now there more then just piracy. Knowing already the rules of the forum about not linking piracy products and how to's still know will get them banned with out a vote on this topic. People already know i think that there's more then enough how to sites out there for the piracy side of things and not to look for it here this site is saving money on games not cheap blank media yes there should be a clamp on the piracy thing but a lot of it is how they address the review.

I have no real opinion of value here being as i have just signed up a week or 2 ago and all ready supporting piracy from the looks of my posts, but I have been a long time looker on this site and will say thanks to the folks on here I've gotten some great deals on games and movies. I may have hacked systems but not every hacker so to speak is a pirate or every early poster on a game is a pirate just because some people may get early games. Just being a looker and seeing how great this site was that's what made me sign up cause it's a community of gamers for games. By allowing people to post something about a game early won;t hurt this site or the games if anything it may drive more sales and move more people to buy game when they hit the street date.

[ratzombie]

Well it hasn't caused any problems yet, and right now there isn't any rules against posting early review/impressions regardless of how it was obtained.

[Magic Pink]

Pirated games are 99% of the time unfinished anyway and the impression or opinion generated by them would therefore be incorrect.

Also, pirates are assholes.

[Demontooth]

Well, you obviously have to vote yes on this matter now, we can't have Omatsei leave.

[Rocko]

Well, you obviously have to vote yes on this matter now, we can't have Omatsei leave.

You say this in jest, but I'd say that taking something that has never been a problem and is not illegal and disallowing it, thereby alienating a portion of your userbase, is a pretty big problem. After all, while the site may be owned by one person, the community makes the site, as has already been stated.

[mightymaxx]

It's impossible to fairly police this, unless the title of their review is as follows "OMFG I pirated Fallout 3, and it is teh suksorz !!!111" Then it'd be ok to ban. Otherwise you're asking for more trouble than it's worth.

[djbooba]

Unless you are in the media or a developer, I don't want to hear someone's review of a game until the day that game launches.

[bubbafett4hire]

Pirated games are 99% of the time unfinished anyway and the impression or opinion generated by them would therefore be incorrect.

Also, pirates are assholes.

that's just flat out untrue and can only be said by someone who doesn't the whole story on downloads , sure i say that the whole assassins creed thing for the PSP was unfinished but for he most part real pirates only get a game a week or 2 before its out and can say with out a doubt that i have never seen a download game vs a retail game that had any differences other then one being burnt and the other being retail. Don't believe me download a pirated game which would be in a iso format then make a copy of a retail game in to another iso. Run a hex comparison program and you'd see all the data is the same. Demos are also a unfinished game that %99 of the time won't start you off in the retail version of the game the same way they did in the demo. But yet people still form opinions about games from these demos too and there not done. Oh and xbox360 can;t be %99 done cause they still need MS to stamp there "run this cd command" on all their discs which is a MS internal thing not in the hands of the developers or pirates. If you could there would be 360 homebrew which there's not.

Also, sure most pirates may be a-holes but without them and others like them i wonder how many IT and security firms would be collecting an unemployment check to because there no longer evil pirates to stop. It's a never ending cycle , they make protection we break it, they say it can;t be done it happens, pirates download load half a million in games, ubisoft spends half a million in new jobs to people to stop it.

People will form there own ideas about a game and not just take someones word for it. Gamefly , Blockbuster plus how many other places can you try before buy anyone who can agree %100 about a game from what someone else has said without trying for them self's are sheep anyway.Sorry if that offend someone but if you need someone to tell you what you should think of a game and not form your own opinions about a game,movie whatever please PM me i have a bridge for sale just off the NYC bay

[pimpinc333]

Unless you are in the media or a developer, I don't want to hear someone's review of a game until the day that game launches.

So you're saying it's OK to pirate the game but they just need to hold their thoughts about the game til the release date?

[ratzombie]

Pirated games are 99% of the time unfinished anyway and the impression or opinion generated by them would therefore be incorrect.

Also, pirates are assholes.
Maybe in the early '90s, but pirated copies of games are 1:1 nowadays.

It's just silly, why make these little rules when there hasn't been a problem to begin with?

I think we should make a rule that zombies are not allowed to create threads, yeah zombies don't exist but YOU NEVER KNOW.

[pimpinc333]

Maybe in the early '90s, but pirated copies of games are 1:1 nowadays.

It's just silly, why make these little rules when there hasn't been a problem to begin with?

I think we should make a rule that zombies are not allowed to create threads, yeah zombies don't exist but YOU NEVER KNOW.

Why do we need proof that Zombies Exist? Like I said, I'm tired of the "you can't prove that zombies don't exist argument". We don't need PROOF. I think an educated guess based upon repeated actions do in fact mean that Zombies exist and CAN create threads. Who knows we might also have local connects.

[bubbafett4hire]

Why do we need proof that Zombies Exist? Like I said, I'm tired of the "you can't prove that zombies don't exist argument". We don't need PROOF. I think an educated guess based upon repeated actions do in fact mean that Zombies exist and CAN create threads. Who knows we might also have local connects.
:applause::applause::applause:

[seppuku]

I don't read reviews here. I don't pirate games. Unfortunately, criminals tend to be very good at rationalizing their actions.

[mguiddy]

Why do we need proof that Zombies Exist? Like I said, I'm tired of the "you can't prove that zombies don't exist argument". We don't need PROOF. I think an educated guess based upon repeated actions do in fact mean that Zombies exist and CAN create threads. Who knows we might also have local connects.

Damn it, but I lol'd.

[lllusion]

no way

[ratzombie]

Why do we need proof that Zombies Exist? Like I said, I'm tired of the "you can't prove that zombies don't exist argument". We don't need PROOF. I think an educated guess based upon repeated actions do in fact mean that Zombies exist and CAN create threads. Who knows we might also have local connects.
Well there doesn't have to be proof, zombies might exist or they might not.

Regardless, my point being, if zombies do exist they haven't caused any problems on this site. Therefore (to me at least), it seems unnecessary to make a rule against them.

In the same vein, I feel it's unnecessary to make a rule against pirates from writing their own early impressions of games. There need to be rules against providing pirated content, that makes sense, but this seems way overly cautious and again unnecessary.

But there is a poll, so give the people what they want.

[pimpinc333]

Well there doesn't have to be proof, zombies might exist or they might not.

Regardless, my point being, if zombies do exist they haven't caused any problems on this site. Therefore (to me at least), it seems unnecessary to make a rule against them.

In the same vein, I feel it's unnecessary to make a rule against pirates from writing their own early impressions of games. There need to be rules against providing pirated content, that makes sense, but this seems way overly cautious and again unnecessary.

But there is a poll, so give the people what they want.

:applause: Agreed.

[bigdaddybruce44]

Listen...I can deal with pirates...I'll even find a way to handle the zombies...but if we get stuck with any fucking zombie pirates, I'm out.

[face_kicker]

Yes, I don't really care how they got the fucking game, I just want to know what it plays like so that I can decided whether I want to buy it or not.

- There's a lot of self righteous, pro industry people on this forum. That's nice to see...

[bigdaddybruce44]

Yes, and the piracy advocates aren't self-righteous, right? :roll:

"Maaaaaaaaaaaan, the games cost too much, maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan! They should be free, maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan!"
"They put out bad games, so I am going to steal them, maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan"

[Strell]

There's a lot of self righteous, pro industry people on this forum.

This statement in and of itself is self righteous.

Beyond that, you need these "pro industry" people to support the games and developers so they keep getting made. I don't ever think the game industry will die due to piracy, but having done it all my life and it being a hobby of mine, I'm free to support it in any way I choose.

If that makes me elitist, then that's something I can live with.

[lilboo]

Since everything has already been off topic, :lol:, I think it's OK to pirate old shit. Shit that's not available in stores & available on the virtual console or other means.

If the game/system is out of print, no one is losing money..right?

[mykevermin]

Yes, I don't really care how they got the fucking game, I just want to know what it plays like so that I can decided whether I want to buy it or not.

- There's a lot of self righteous, pro industry people on this forum. That's nice to see...

Yeah, man. Fuck the system!

http://www.geocities.com/vomitpunks/3punks.gif

[Strell]

Since everything has already been off topic, :lol:, I think it's OK to pirate old shit. Shit that's not available in stores & available on the virtual console or other means.

If the game/system is out of print, no one is losing money..right?

This is just an extreme gray area, and falls on a lot of factors. How "out of print" are we talkin' here? I.e., is it a PS2 game? 'Cuz GamesQuestDirect might always reprint it. Is it a rare Saturn game? Can you find it on eBay? Can you find it used elsewhere?

A lot of those factors are mostly negligible though. But the point that "no one loses any money" somehow absolves everything is just something that is a little vague.

But that's almost an entire discussion in and of itself.

I say we go back to arguing about EA some more in this thread. What if EA was run by zombies? And then the tagline was "EA Sports. It's brains brains braaaaaaaains." Would you support them then? I wouldn't. I don't support zombie corporations.

[lilboo]

I'm talking about OLD OLD shit..like NES and SNES stuff! ALSO, stuff that's NOT on something like the virtual console, or a compilation, and most likely won't ever.

If I had a crap load of NES games on my PC--and none of the ones that were currently available in some form--how illegal is this? If it is at all.

[ThomS111]

Although I oppose draconian DRM like the game Spore employs I in no way condone piracy. As for whether or nor people bought an early(broken street date) legitimate copy I feel that they should wait until the game is officially released to post their reviews. I'm against piracy as I am also against DRM. I speak my mind with my dollars spent and I wont support games with ridiculous DRM by not buying them(even if I was really interested in them before said DRM was introduced). And I wont support piracy because whether or not a game's publisher implememnts DRM still doeasn't take away the fact that the game's developers have put their heart and soul(and large chunks of their life) into creating this content. With all of that said I'd like to add: Fuck you EA for making me miss out on so many supposely great games. Get your head out of your ass and realise that the pirates will pirate games regardless and the only people you're hurting are your fans and your bottom line with DRM schemes like this crap...

[Access_Denied]

I don't see why not. I mean, if somebody has something to say about a game, let them. They're just trying to let the community know whether the game is good or not.

[mykevermin]

Why did we start bashing on EA?

[Strell]

Why did we start bashing on EA?

It's the new rule. (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4853582&postcount=550)

[Access_Denied]

As a non-biased party, I think all pirates should be killed...err...I mean banned. That's right....banned....to death.

Are you serious? Why should pirates not be allowed to use the forums? I mean, we know CheapyD doesn't support piracy, but banning all pirates is overkill. He'd lose thousands of users. Not to mention that it'd be impossible to tell a pirate from a non-pirate.

[mykevermin]

It's the new rule. (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4853582&postcount=550)

Well, crapola. I guess I have to go yell at my copy of Rock Band.

Be right back.

[Strell]

Well, crapola. I guess I have to go yell at my copy of Rock Band.

Be right back.

Vote Quimby Support the rule!

[bigdaddybruce44]

...or...just don't steal things...simple...

[Pookymeister]

It's hard for me to attack someone for taking a very small fraction out of a game's huge sales with gas at $5 a gallon and a price floor of $60 MSRP for every stinking new release.

That's a pretty fallacious argument there.
Games are a luxury item. If you can't afford it, you can't afford it - thus have no right to it.

[Omatsei]

Still, this is an unfair premise. If Charlize Theron or Kate Beckinsale ritually disemboweled my entire family and every one of my friends in front of me, forcing me to watch, helpless, and then said "I'll bang you if you confess to this," I'd probably have to think REAL hard before answering.

I believe his point was that it's still enforcing YOUR sense of morality on other people. If something's ethically wrong, it's up to you to convince that person to change, not force them. If something's illegal, then it's up to those in law enforcement. This site, the nice folks who run it, and all the users who frequent it (allowing for a few exceptions) are the former, NOT the latter. And, by the way, you might want to talk to someone... you know, someone who might be able to help...

What if this topic were switched to focus on MP3 downloading? What if CheapyD said that everyone who they suspected were downloading MP3's would be banned? What if the issue was muddled a bit? For instance, I download MP3's from the site formerly known as allofmp3.com, where the legality is questionable. (The only reason I do so is because a couple years ago, I put about $100 into my account, and just haven't spent it all yet. Once I spend it all, I'll start downloading songs from iTunes.) What if I downloaded full albums from Russian bands 2 weeks before they were released in the US, and posted my opinions of the songs (you know, like actual journalists do)?

Let's even mix it up a bit more. Let's say I lucked out, and got chosen to be a beta tester of new, unreleased consumer electronics, and I got the PS4 3 months before it was released. Let's also say, hypothetically, that it was the worst console ever known to man, but the hype was through the roof. (By worst console, I mean Atari 2600-style graphics, controller with 1 button... really horrible shit, but they somehow managed to get the hype raised to astronomical levels). How many of you would want to know that you should save your $1000 before you stand in line for 12 hours hoping to get yours?

What if I got Rock Band 2 tomorrow (the full bundle), and discovered that the game was completely broken, the songs were covers by The Local Shit Band, and the instruments don't work at all (again, purely hypothetical). Should I keep that info to myself and watch all you unfortunate saps waste your $200 on an unfinished / unworking product?

I don't think piracy is right, but the info gained from getting an early release of a game has absolutely nothing to do with the method the person got the game.

[usernameme]

If you allow it to be posted, you reward piracy. Simple as that. They get to be "first," and enjoy the attention they get (which they will try to leverage into getting people to get them Xboxes via referral services or some other stupid b.s.). Some of them will try to claim that they are "doing the community a service by letting people know if the game is worth buying before it comes out in order to save them money." This is a shameful lie.

A.) They are doing it to try to bolster sympathy for their shameful practice.
B.) They have already stated their position on whether someone should buy it because they DIDN'T see fit to buy it.
C.) Their opinion holds no more weight than any other review a CAG could use to determine their purchases.


In short: pirates suck, and should be driven out like filthy beasts.

Well said

[Skylander7]

Ok.. bad joke with the "pity the foo with no money who pirated a game." I was more joking on the behavior of people to pursue alternative means to obtain a good or service in the face of an unreasonable price floor.. but it was a joke.

Look.. there have been previous deal postings where games were sold at Target or Kmart early. We, as CAG's, go apeshit and buy them up. This is QUICKLY turning into a witch hunt and less of a discussion.

So.. I REALLY hate to go this route.. but please view it like this. Pro-Life or Pro-Choice? The law will always side with a pro-choice decision, as a pro-life standpoint is primarily one of religious preference (which the law must be blind to).

Censorship on this site will be the beginning of the end. We do fine with the current rule of not discussing the methods or providing the means in which to pirate. So far, the only argument I've seen is the ethical claim of piracy being wrong. Ok.. to you, it's wrong. Congratulations.. let me give you a round of applause. So.. you're assuming an early review is due to piracy? Do you have proof?

Next stage of the argument.. make "early reviewers" prove they legally obtained the game. Who gave you the right to invade their privacy? Do you have a warrant? Are you the gumshoe of the interwebs now?

This is like Palin being an expert in foreign policy because "Look, I can see Russia from my house!!"

Politicism aside.. if you have a problem with piracy, for whatever reason, it is your world view. If you want to "save the game industry," please write your favorite developers and suggest improvements in their manufacturing, distribution, and security practices. However.. being the game vigalante 0f teH CAgS will not single handedly save an industry saturated with competition and generally lacking in basic knowledge of marketing and project management. I think "driving out the filthy beasts" is.. well, I was going to say a sign of an underlying psychological issue, but I'll pass on that. If you solve the problem here, are you going to stop it elsewhere online? Please.. some of you are looking to fragment a community and taking something way too seriously over your belief in your own moral superiority.

As long as we don't provide the means to obtain illegal software.. chill out. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Narynan]

I believe so. Early impressions are important. And it does not always means that they are not going to buy the game.

Games I have downloaded in the last 6 months and bought.
Spore
COD4
UT3

Games I have downloaded in the last 6 months and not bought.
Gal Civ2 (and I will be buying it and both expansions after either 1) I get them for my Bday or 2) i dont and i have to buy them myslef)

I know what I do is not the norm. But if I am 50 / 50% on a game, I really like to try out certain features of it first.

[Pharrell1]

hell no! ban hammer for violaters.

Piracy is a crime.

[munch]

Game Piracy!?!?!?!?! Ban Them $$$$AS!

[Renaissance 2K]

Let's even mix it up a bit more. Let's say I lucked out, and got chosen to be a beta tester of new, unreleased consumer electronics, and I got the PS4 3 months before it was released. Let's also say, hypothetically, that it was the worst console ever known to man, but the hype was through the roof. (By worst console, I mean Atari 2600-style graphics, controller with 1 button... really horrible shit, but they somehow managed to get the hype raised to astronomical levels). How many of you would want to know that you should save your $1000 before you stand in line for 12 hours hoping to get yours?

Beta tests usually force you to agree to a non-disclosure agreement.

Not to mention that you're essentially vivifying the whole "passing judgment on an unfinished product" argument that many people have pointed out before me.

Nobody's forcing consumers to decide immediately when to purchase a game or system. Wait a day. Wait a week. Wait a month. Wait until you're certain that it's worth your money. Like everything else in the CAG universe, you're either waiting a bit longer or working a little harder to get the most value for your money.

I see no value in potentially pissing off a bunch of game publishers with something that could be prevented outright. With "cease and desist" notices being handed out like Subway coupons these days, it's not the legality of what you did; it's how easily the lawyers and lobbyists can convince a geriatric judge (who thinks that video games are Satan-on-a-circuitboard) that what you're doing is wrong.

I know what I do is not the norm. But if I am 50 / 50% on a game, I really like to try out certain features of it first.I'm not sure I'll like this chicken marsala on the menu. Could you quickly grab a piece from the kitchen for me to eat, and then I'll decide if I want to order it?

[Layziebones]

I said no.

How bad would it suck for CAG to get in trouble for someone posting illegally downloaded games by not forbiding it.

[zewone]

Piracy is crime.

I vote no.

lol

[firetorespawn_]

Piracy is crime. http://www.avxf.com/img27.jpghttp://www.thehottestgearonline.com/img30.jpg


I vote no.

lol

Lol. Nice.
I say, if CD's & DVD's are 'okay' for most people to 'illegally' download. Why not games?

[Strell]

I say, if CD's & DVD's are 'okay' for most people to 'illegally' download. Why not games?

That isn't okay for most people.

[GuilewasNK]

What Cheapy is asking is the same as if Roger Ebert was using bootlegged copies of movies to review. At the very least it would present CAG in an unprofessional light.

[ratzombie]

You think anyone considers a site called Cheap Ass Gamer as professional?

[darthbudge]

You think anyone considers a site called Cheap Ass Gamer as professional?

This.

What is great about CAG is great atmosphere and cool community. If I want super strict professionals only professional reviews for professional people who want things professionally reviewed, I will go to NeoGAF or another lame ass site like that.

[Rocko]

I wonder what the opinions would've been if the topic of piracy was never mentioned.

[IAmTheCheapestGamer]

This.

What is great about CAG is great atmosphere and cool community. If I want super strict professionals only professional reviews for professional people who want things professionally reviewed, I will go to NeoGAF or another lame ass site like that.

Since I joined CAG it seems like this site has degenerated into more or less a Gamefaqs-esque shell of it's former self, with sprinklings of Slick Deals and Fat Wallet type behavior thrown in for good measure.

I mean, you have some users buying up assloads of games, then plunking them on their TL's at 3-5x what they paid before 'shipping, something for gas and a big chunk for "my time" ', you have people insulting the shit out of each other and various acts of trolling, flame baiting, etc, etc, etc.

There are still great CAG's to be found on here if you look hard enough, but lately with the new infraction system, many have been forced to walk on eggshells lest they say something that's bannable.

Let's look at this site for what it is really...it's Cheapy's site, we're just registered here. He could ban us all tomorrow if he wanted to for whatever reason. But this site is also a money maker for Cheapy and without us using the affiliate links, how would he make money without click throughs and the like?

It's really a symbiotic relationship all CAG's have with the site. Sure, we could go to SD or FW and find some of the same deals or we could run all over creation in our own areas and try to snap up deals before other people do, wasting tons of gas in the process on what may or may not get us the deals.

To sum this all up: Without CAG, some of us would still go on but have to waste ALOT more money checking for deals that other members may help us out on from time to time. The site has it's bad members, but we do all somehow seem to get along like a big, dysfunctional gaming family. However, the site has become more about 'me me me' attitude lately if you ask me, but I steer clear of those users.

I know I would've never found many of the deals I have without this site, so I'm thankful to still be here.

[bigdaddybruce44]

You think anyone considers a site called Cheap Ass Gamer as professional?

This.

What is great about CAG is great atmosphere and cool community. If I want super strict professionals only professional reviews for professional people who want things professionally reviewed, I will go to NeoGAF or another lame ass site like that.

Considering Cheapy makes money from the site, yes, it is professional. And that's the whole point so many people are trying to make. It does not look good for the site where you have people promoting piracy.

[bubbafett4hire]

i still don't see how someone posting something about their early thoughts of a game just because "they got a early copy" will hurt things? I mean as long as there not linking,not telling, and not showing how to pirate and just focusing on a game how would this site be supporting piracy? like i said before it's no different then a game stop employee taking a game home before street date and trying it out to sell more games which they tell you to do. Or maybe i just can't see the ad banners for mod chips and such which is typically associated with sites that reflect on piracy while the only ads I've seen on here are for the EDGE card telling people to go spend money like they should.

Also I'd still like to see what proof one has on another other then there own admission to say that a game is pirated when Nintendo and Microsoft still can't tell that's it a pirated copy even when being used online on either system

Piracy maybe wrong and it is but for that matter so is waiting for a used game. Sure yes it's not %100 the same but sure as hell close

Piracy
1)you paid no money to anyone for it not even the people that made it
2)you have broken a US (not china) law and stolen copyright protected material
3)everyone will hate cause you got something for nothing

Used Games
1)you paid money to a store/person but yet no money to the people that made it
2)you haven't broken any laws but by you not buying new little johnny's dad's game didn't sell as much now little johnny will have a bad Xmas
3)everyone will think your cool cause you grabbed a 5 month old game for half price

Retail
1)Buy buying new you paid full price to the makers and only put a little profit in the store wallet
2)Your a true patron of morals
3)Your going to kick yourself in the ass when you get home and realize that in 2 months that $50 game will be half off.

people want to be pissed at pirates and talk about how it hurting the industry so is buying used for that matter as you've already had someone pay the rights to it..hey kinda of like piracy.

And just to through it out there again if piracy hurts so much and is so wrong why the hell is it Nintendo and Microsoft are 1st and 2nd when Sony's in 3rd oh that's right cause there good systems..or because their the 2 next gen systems that have a piracy exploit to them while Sony has none. And don't even say "they didn't now it would happen" when they made the same security mistake they made last gen come on 1 month the Wii was hacked fastest exploit in gaming history.

[bigdaddybruce44]

Piracy maybe wrong and it is but for that matter so is waiting for a used game. Sure yes it's not %100 the same but sure as hell closeNo, actually it isn't even close to the same thing. Piracy is theft. Plain and simple. And last time I checked, theft is still a crime in most places. Buying and selling second-hand goods is not illegal.

[bubbafett4hire]

No, actually it isn't even close to the same thing. Piracy is theft. Plain and simple. And last time I checked, theft is still a crime in most places. Buying and selling second-hand goods is not illegal.
oh yes piracy illegal and no argument here on that matter but yet used puts no money back into the hands of the developers as it would if more people bought new.True it was paid for once and it was obtained by legal means but how many times has that disc been paid for over again and no kickback went to Ubisoft or some other developer.

by posting early impressions of games weather they be pirated or not will not drive people off or scream "come all ye pirates we support you " but rather generate better search results from engines and traffic flow as your having more people trying to dig up info on a game that's about to hit the street in a few days and stumble upon a pre-release review of that game on this site.

And anybody stupid enough to post or say "hey guys i just download and burned this bad ass new game" then yeah ban them that's proof of guilt

[Omatsei]

i still don't see how someone posting something about their early thoughts of a game just because "they got a early copy" will hurt things?

Admittedly, the rest of your post was a little difficult for me to understand, but this definitely needs repeating. What problem is this ban going to solve? A potential one, somewhere down the road? I suppose it's possible that at some point, someone from some company will stumble upon this site, and find a review of a game that isn't released yet, and maybe want the find out some info on that person. I still fail to see how this is Cheapy's, the moderator's, or the CAG community's problem at all. If the company gets a subpoena, then Cheapy should give whatever info he has on that person. I just don't see what this absurd level of moderation is supposed to accomplish.

If you want to prove a point that piracy is bad, great. Make a sticky. We get it.

[bubbafett4hire]

I suppose it's possible that at some point, someone from some company will stumble upon this site, and find a review of a game that isn't released yet, and maybe want the find out some info on that person. I still fail to see how this is Cheapy's, the moderator's, or the CAG community's problem at all. If the company gets a subpoena, then Cheapy should give whatever info he has on that person. I just don't see what this absurd level of moderation is supposed to accomplish.

If you want to prove a point that piracy is bad, great. Make a sticky. We get it.

I think if anyone wanted to get a court order for user records there are about another 20 -100 sites out there that deal only in the modification and manipulation through well documented public means of obtaining piracy on a game system. I could never see a judge giving a subpoena to a company to obtain records because just like in a video game magazine someone posted "hey in about a week this game's going to come out and oh boy doe's it suck".

[E*Master]

Ok so I went to my Local EB now Gamstop in Toronto and snapped a picture of what I think is just as bad as piracy itself. This is a follow up to my previous posts. As legal as it may be, is it still as moral? The dude who traded this copy in the day before (a buddy of mine from work) said EB gave him 28 bucks Canadian for this game. I am putting a new copy beside a used copy and he used his quite frequently. Take a look:

http://s93380653.onlinehome.us/other/wtf.jpg

I call that bullshit. The 360 has the same price as well as other games in this category (ie MGS4 or COD4 have similar gaps). Discuss.

[bigdaddybruce44]

I'm not sure what you're asking...is them selling the game for $55 as bad as piracy? Obviously not. They have every right to sell it for whatever they want. If someone is silly enough to buy it for $55 for a used copy, that's their problem. They should be smarter consumers.

[crystalklear64]

I've got a feeling I'm going to be disappointed come 7:30.

[munch]

I've got a feeling I'm going to be disappointed come 7:30.

What do you mean? Game piracy is bad.n That's the question mirite?

[Rocko]

Closer than I thought.

I really hope this poll won't be used to make any decisions, due to the fact that it's quite clearly a leading question if I've ever seen one.

[botticus]

Surprisingly tight.

[lilboo]

I am surprised that they were pretty close.

[mightymaxx]

very interesting. Though the reasonings behind voting yes or no vary greatly. You could be anti piracy and still vote yes, simply because you feel it's not CAG's job to hunt down pirates.

[bubbafett4hire]

i hope they counted dimpled chads won't want HBO to make a movie about this poll

[darthbudge]

"MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!"

Let's start banning them pirate ass sons of bitches right back to the communist countries they come from!

[Kain Vincent]

Why is the dreamcast brought up in every piracy discussion? It did not kill the system outright, as it was a combination of the PS2's hype, horrible marketing and support, Sega coming off the failure of the Saturn, and lack of stronger 3rd parties (EA didn't release any sports titles on it IIRC). I personally feel that people use piracy as a scapegoat to cover up bigger issues with the industry itself (bad advertising, niche markets, horrible DRM, etc). However, that's a topic for another time.

As for gaming reviews, can this be an issue? I think so, in the same sense that non-optimal hardware can. The intention is overall for the best.

[bubbafett4hire]

"MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!"

Let's start banning them pirate ass sons of bitches right back to the communist countries they come from!


are those the words of G .w Bush?

and there's still no proof a game was pirated

[crystalklear64]

Well, disappointing as expected, and I'm not talking about the results.

Registered CAGs: 167,601, Active Members: 36,280

Voters: 1799.

[bigdaddybruce44]

Wow, surprised so few people voted.

[Strell]

"MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!"

Let's start banning them pirate ass sons of bitches right back to the communist countries they come from!

Hey, let's overreact much while we're at it.

I actually think ~1800 votes is quite a few, given the circumstances of this site. You have to remember probably 10k+ people are one-offs, either because they are spambots or people who forgot they signed up. Then there's the dupe accounts when someone forgot their password, or they tried to get around a ban, etc. And the people who stop coming to CAG altogether. So on so on.

It's hovering around...what, 5%? About as good as could be expected.

[benjamouth]

I suppose this poll is as valid as any other, but I think a lot of people voted no on Piracy as opposed to no on the actual issue the poll was about.

I'd like to see a "Which damages the Videogames industry more, Piracy or 2nd hand game sales?" poll, but I wouldn't blame Cheapy for not doing that, with CAGs current sponsors and all.

[botticus]

I suppose this poll is as valid as any other, but I think a lot of people voted no on Piracy as opposed to no on the actual issue the poll was about.

I'd like to see a "Which damages the Videogames industry more, Piracy or 2nd hand game sales?" poll, but I wouldn't blame Cheapy for not doing that, with CAGs current sponsors and all.
Well, I think a better question would be "Are used games as bad for the industry as piracy?" since I don't know that much of an argument could be made for it being worse. Would be a good debate though.

[Koggit]

ITT: Proof that democracy sucks

The real question is how does anyone intend to know whether or not someone pirated the game for their review?

[Moxio]

I know that I didn't vote because I thought the whole thing was stupid.

[Autumn Star]

ITT: Proof that democracy sucks

The real question is how does anyone intend to know whether or not someone pirated the game for their review?

Agreed completely.

[bubbafett4hire]

ITT: Proof that democracy sucks

The real question is how does anyone intend to know whether or not someone pirated the game for their review?

i think they're going to use the same intel sources that Bush used when looking for those WMD's

[RollingSkull]

i think they're going to use the same intel sources that Bush used when looking for those WMD's
The ones that also convinced many of the world's intelligence agencies and former President Bill Clinton?

[bigdaddybruce44]

The only thing worse than piracy discussions...political discussions. Help us, Lord...

[bubbafett4hire]

no not trying to get political i just feel that none of those presidential bastards are any good anyway you only get 1 year out of them weather they be Republican or Democrat

Year one they have to kiss ass and make photo shoots as well as settling in to there new job
Year Two they have a scandals to worry about
Year Three they finely get some real work done
Year Four They have to start re-election campaign

but like i said , he said , and has been said over and over again they will never know if its a pirated copy or not

[refusedchaos]

huh, didnt even know this thread existed.....i would have voted Yes

[FriskyTanuki]

851 bans coming right up to solve this problem! :D

[ratzombie]

And for good measure, ban the Tanuki.

[FriskyTanuki]

I didn't vote yes, so that won't be necessary.

[evyrew]

It is true that in most cases, we wouldn't know if someone was reviewing a pirated game or not... but it still doesn't justify the behavior. It's like saying it's okay to steal a car because you were going to write a review about it. This community is built around the central purpose of gamers who just want to save a few bucks. Condoning piracy removes the C from CAG.

[Strell]

I didn't vote yes, so that won't be necessary.

Oh, I wouldn't go that far.

[donkeydrop]

ITT: Proof that democracy sucks

The real question is how does anyone intend to know whether or not someone pirated the game for their review?

You just don't get it. The point is people want to get attention by posting about the game before it is even released. Why should a thief be allowed to do that? If you somehow got a legit copy before release date then post a photo; lots of sites do this.

[bubbafett4hire]

You just don't get it. The point is people want to get attention by posting about the game before it is even released. Why should a thief be allowed to do that? If you somehow got a legit copy before release date then post a photo; lots of sites do this.
a photo of the box or the receipt?

[Gothic Walrus]

a photo of the box or the receipt?

If this was the case, I'd say both, and maybe a piece of paper with your CAG user name on it for good measure.

[ratzombie]

If this was the case, I'd say both, and maybe a piece of paper with your CAG user name on it for good measure.
As well as your dental records.

[crystalklear64]

Fingerprints.

[Skylander7]

My review of Lego: Batman.

It is good. Batman is in it.

Oh wait, I can't post impressions of a game before release date without a receipt.. I swear, I swear, this eyepatch doesn't mean anything! I'm not worthy, I don't have your level of morality!!! Please don't swat at me with said interweb weaponry known as "banhammer."

[bigdaddybruce44]

My review of Lego: Batman.

It is good. Batman is in it.

Oh wait, I can't post impressions of a game before release date without a receipt.. I swear, I swear, this eyepatch doesn't mean anything! I'm not worthy, I don't have your level of morality!!! Please don't swat at me with said interweb weaponry known as "banhammer."

http://www.lolz.se/fun/fail-1.jpg

[Koggit]

You just don't get it. The point is people want to get attention by posting about the game before it is even released. Why should a thief be allowed to do that? If you somehow got a legit copy before release date then post a photo; lots of sites do this.

Attention? They're getting attention?! DEAR GOD WHY DIDN'T YOU SAY SO!! I didn't realize attention from users of a video game forum on the internet was at stake! This is far more serious than I could've ever imagined. You're right, we can't let those bastards get away with such a fantastic reward for their despicable actions! Batten down the hatches, boys! This here's a war worth fightin'! Sink the attention-plundering pirate scum!

[carpwrist]

Attention? They're getting attention?! DEAR GOD WHY DIDN'T YOU SAY SO!! I didn't realize attention from users of a video game forum on the internet was at stake! This is far more serious than I could've ever imagined. You're right, we can't let those bastards get away with such a fantastic reward for their despicable actions! Batten down the hatches, boys! This here's a war worth fightin'! Sink the attention-plundering pirate scum!
lolz!
He does have a point, it is pretty unfair for software pirates to taunt their advantages, especially if they're immoral about it. However... yeth, this is a cereal matter, like Manbearpig.

[crystalklear64]

Taunt their advantages?

So the real reason behind this is that people are jealous? good god..

[ratzombie]

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6198159.html?part=rss&tag=gs_ds&subj=6198159