Proposition 8 same sex marriage ban poll

[homeland]

I found BigT!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6ddOODw9Rg

j.k

[Sc4rfac3]

chuckles when he realizes that just you, me and Syn have posted on this page.
I didnt make it

[Sarang01]

Dont forget me.

I think Myke got scared off by being called BiBear.

I can't believe what an idiot BigT has been.

[HumanSnatcher]

My god this is Hilarious. Someone redubbed a scene from a movie where Hitler is pissed and re subbed it with English making him yelling and scream about Prop 8 getting passed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X99PeJuQquc&NR=1

[The Crotch]

Awesome video. I think "jam" translates into "Stalin" in German...

[lilboo]

Man, this thread got FIERCE.
I am the most civil of the gay.

I just believe in common sense, that is all.
: )

[Sc4rfac3]

Man, this thread got FIERCE.
I am the most civil of the gay.

I just believe in common sense, that is all.
: )
It was kinda heated before but it did kinda pick up about 2 pages back. Its cool now i think we settled back down again.

[HumanSnatcher]

I just tried fleshing out my point but some didn't care to hear things, so I've given up on it. Why argue a point when the other won't pay attention.

[crunchb3rry]

I don't know why gays just don't band together and create their own subset of a religion such as Christianity. If Scientology can do it, why can't they? Then they can claim religious persecution and the various pieces of paper our founding fathers wrote up can support them rather than function as roadblocks.

[HumanSnatcher]

I don't know why gays just don't band together and create their own subset of a religion such as Christianity. If Scientology can do it, why can't they? Then they can claim religious persecution and the various pieces of paper our founding fathers wrote up can support them rather than function as roadblocks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Community_Church

[thrustbucket]

Actually, they still do. They just aren't as vocal. One of my best friends, whos stuck living in UT right now will attest to it. If you're not white, male, and Mormon (yes, they exclude all other forms of Christianity) there, you might as well not exist if you can't pop out 10+ children.

I usually refrain from name calling but you are super ignorant stating such BS as fact.

Mormons have never said interracial marriages were a sin or a transgression. They only have advised (http://www.geocities.com/solmes.geo/aam-interracial-marriage.html)against two people of vastly different cultures or backgrounds getting married, because statistically they are less successful. But it's never been considered a sin, which is the key point here for why it's not comparable to religious views of homosexuality which is widely considered sin. People like you take that advise and twist it into bigotry, which is horribly inaccurate.

And your friend's experience is the same experience anyone would have in any culture vastly different than one's own. It's called culture shock, not discrimination. The Mormon church itself doesn't advocate anything you just typed.

Move to a colony of devout Hindus in India and see how well you get along in their society eating burgers all the time and refusing to believe in reincarnation, or move to Saudi Arabia and openly look at pornography and eat pork sandwiches in public - and you'll have a similar experience.

What amuses me most about this is - it never fails, it's always the people so upset and such huge activists about the intolerance of one narrow issue that are generally the most ignorant and intolerant of so many others.

[SoonerMatt]

This thread has reaffirmed the fact that I fucking hate people. They're all self-centered pricks who care more about themselves and bitch & moan about issues that don't even concern them. If Prop 8 doesn't pass how is it going to hurt you, the straight person? It won't bother me; gays being allowed to marry won't make me dump my girlfriend and become gay, but it will make my family much happier because then my uncle will be allowed to get married.

There is absolutely no harm that can come from homosexuals being allowed to marry, it won't affect a majority of the population, so stop being so god damn oppressive; they're tax paying Americans just like everyone else, they should have the same rights.

[HumanSnatcher]

I think the easiest way to put what I'm trying to say was that why should other minorities/groups have the same civil rights that I am being denied?

If you see what I say/said as an attack or racist comment against black people, you need to just shoot yourself. I'm talking about any and all groups/minorities. For you to single it out to one minority miss the point entirely. It makes no difference how long any group has been fighting for change, a struggle is a struggle. The Scottish fought for centuries to be free of England. Before that, the Picts fought with the Romans for their country/right to live as they pleased. In Australia, aboriginals are STILL fighting for their rights. For you to be a member of a group and think that it only pertains to you...news flash, you're not special. And neither am I. We are all humans. As Tyler Durden said in Fight Club, "We're all apart of the same compost heap"

[Sarang01]

Thrust yeah but their Reincarnation beliefs are fucked imo. I mean try to tell someone they're fucked into getting in Heaven until they're reborn in the Priest class and tell me how that works out.

[Sc4rfac3]

I think the easiest way to put what I'm trying to say was that why should Anybody have the same civil rights that I am being denied?

If you see what I say/said as an attack or racist comment against black people, you need to just shoot yourself. I'm talking about any and all groups/minorities. For you to single it out to one minority miss the point entirely. It makes no difference how long any group has been fighting for change, a struggle is a struggle. The Scottish fought for centuries to be free of England. Before that, the Picts fought with the Romans for their country/right to live as they pleased. In Australia, aboriginals are STILL fighting for their rights. For you to be a member of a group and think that it only pertains to you...news flash, you're not special. And neither am I. We are all humans. As Tyler Durden said in Fight Club, "We're all apart of the same compost heap"
:roll: fixed!

[depascal22]

Another thing I've been meaning to mention:

A lot of people here love to compare gay marriage acceptance with interracial marriage acceptance, especially where religions are concerned.

I take issue with that. I don't know of any main-stream or major religion that ever considered interracial marriage a moral sin. Not anywhere close to the extent of their views on homosexuality. I can't find evidence of any religion considering interracial marriage a sin, major or minor. Some just advised against it for cultural differences decreasing the success rate of the marriage (some still do, but it's not a racial thing, it's a cultural thing).

This is further evidence that the government shouldn't involve itself in marriages. Religions (and other groups) are vehemently against homosexuality. If they openly teach and talk about gay marriage being wrong if Prop 8 fails, couldn't they be sued for discrimination? All because the state is involved in definitions? In other words - one group's "gain" is another group's legal cluster fuck.

Then why did that Christian College in South Carolina (Bob Jones University) ban interracial dating because it was against God's will? Please know all the facts before you jump in.

[BigT]

Don't forget also, that because hes a doctor, that he thinks hes better and more right than anyone else

Snatcher, Snatcher, Snatcher... while I agree with your taste in games (Snatcher for the PC-Engine/SegaCD was awesome...), that's about where it ends.

Currently, gay people and people of different races all have the same rights: i.e., they are allowed to marry someone of the opposite race (pure equality). An allowance for gay marriage would be more about making an exception for a fringe group/lifestlye rather than about bringing equality.

I am for Prop 8 because I don't like the fact that gay marriage was imposed upon our state despite being shot down by a popular vote a few years ago (prop 22).

We live in a democracy and these issues should be decided by the voters... if prop 8 fails, I will tip my hat to the other side and accept gay marriage in the state.

...of course a better solution would be to divide California into Northern and Southern sections (I am sure prop 8 will easily fail in Northern California)... you liberals can have San Fran and we conservatives can keep OC.

[Mr. 420]

I think it is terrible when 2 dudes making love adopt a boy.
And schools will tell children that that is ok. My friends that is not OK.
Gays have a retarded gene in their dna that makes them gay but that doenst mean it is ok that they marry. I don't hate gays, but I hate seeing them kissing on each other and grabbing each others ass at the mall in front of children.
Yes on 8, it's not hate

[HumanSnatcher]

Snatcher, Snatcher, Snatcher... while I agree with your taste in games (Snatcher for the PC-Engine/SegaCD was awesome...), that's about where it ends.

Currently, gay people and people of different races all have the same rights: i.e., they are allowed to marry someone of the opposite race (pure equality). An allowance for gay marriage would be more about making an exception for a fringe group/lifestlye rather than about bringing equality.

I am for Prop 8 because I don't like the fact that gay marriage was imposed upon our state despite being shot down by a popular vote a few years ago (prop 22).

We live in a democracy and these issues should be decided by the voters... if prop 8 fails, I will tip my hat to the other side and accept gay marriage in the state.

...of course a better solution would be to divide California into Northern and Southern sections (I am sure prop 8 will easily fail in Northern California)... you liberals can have San Fran and we conservatives can keep OC.

BigoT, BigoT, BigoT... Didn't I tell you to just shut the fuck up a while back? Better yet, fucking die you shit head homophobe

[depascal22]

I think it is terrible when 2 dudes making love adopt a boy.
And schools will tell children that that is ok. My friends that is not OK.
Gays have a retarded gene in their dna that makes them gay but that doenst mean it is ok that they marry. I don't hate gays, but I hate seeing them kissing on each other and grabbing each others ass at the mall in front of children.
Yes on 8, it's not hate

What about the kids with the baggy pants and that crazy rap music? Should we ban them too? What about those little girls with the slut t-shirts? That offends me too. Know what else offends me? Ignant ass fools that get offended at everything.

[HumanSnatcher]

I think it is terrible when 2 dudes making love adopt a boy.
And schools will tell children that that is ok. My friends that is not OK.
Gays have a retarded gene in their dna that makes them gay but that doenst mean it is ok that they marry. I don't hate gays, but I hate seeing them kissing on each other and grabbing each others ass at the mall in front of children.
Yes on 8, it's not hate

With a name like yours you have no say in anything

[The Crotch]

With a name like yours you have no say in anything1: What's the significance of his name?
2: He's just a troll. And I'm-a go out on a limb and guess that he's not of voting age, either.

[Mr. 420]

Yes. Yes we should.

I am just upset my nephew gos to a school where a little black boy goes that has 2 daddys. I don't appreciate the little black kid showing his penis to his classmates and his butt.

PS trolls are imaginary and I am about as real as it gets little one
With a name like the crotch, do you go by a bigstinkyhole in gta 4? I saw that the other day but I thought it was a girl.

[HumanSnatcher]

Yes. Yes we should.

I am just upset my nephew gos to a school where a little black boy goes that has 2 daddys. I don't appreciate the little black kid showing his penis to his classmates and his butt.

You're full of shit. If ANY kid were doing that he'd be expelled. I hope someone spikes your shit with PCP and you start thinking that ytou can fly

[lilboo]

:rofl: People are so dumb

[Mr. 420]

You're full of shit. If ANY kid were doing that he'd be expelled. I hope someone spikes your shit with PCP and you start thinking that ytou can fly
No, I didn't make that up and no he wasn't expelled. Petaluma People arent the brightest of the bunch.
I just state my opinion and people hate and want people to spike my medicine.
I think John Mcclain just might win with heroes like you.

[depascal22]

Alot of kids in grade school show each other their penis. It's pretty natural and if you say that it didn't happen, you're just in denial. It doesn't matter if you have 2 daddies or 2 mommies.

In first grade, I found out that girls have different parts and I asked a girl down the street that I would show her mine if she showed me hers. Did that make me a future pervert? (Probably yes, but who isn't?) In fourth grade, we had a contest to see who could pee the highest. Does that make me gay?

[lilboo]

Yes. Yes we should.

I am just upset my nephew gos to a school where a little black boy goes that has 2 daddys. I don't appreciate the little black kid showing his penis to his classmates and his butt.

PS trolls are imaginary and I am about as real as it gets little one
With a name like the crotch, do you go by a bigstinkyhole in gta 4? I saw that the other day but I thought it was a girl.

:rofl: :rofl: :dunce:

So let me guess: You and your friends make it your mission to tease and make fun of this little black kid everyday, am i right?

The only reason why you think gay is wrong is simple: Your parents are idiots too.

Here's the problem, gals.
Being an IDIOT is a choice; Gay is not 8-)

You are born gay, however, you choose to be an idiot.
I am kickin major ass in this thread. I am one the few who only makes sense because I'm using common sense and not religion and quotes and facts and percentages and poems, ETC!

<33 me

[HumanSnatcher]

No, I didn't make that up and no he wasn't expelled. Petaluma People arent the brightest of the bunch.
I just state my opinion and people hate and want people to spike my medicine.
I think John Mcclain just might win with heroes like you.

No, its illiterate ones like you thats heroes to him. Its McCain not McClain. Unless you have cancer/glaucoma/or another medical malady, its not medicine.

[depascal22]

No, its illiterate ones like you thats heroes to him. Its McCain not McClain. Unless you have cancer/glaucoma/or another medical malady, its not medicine.

Let's not start bashing weed now. Americans of every politcal spectrum imbibe in that sweet sweet cheeba. It's just that some of us can still function like a normal human being.

[SoonerMatt]

Mr. 420, homosexuality is not genetic, see my post a handful of pages back.

Also, if the kid showed his cock to the class it's not because of having two daddies, it's because the kid has mental issues. Kids do that in schools across the country, some of whom have some sort of mental handicap. Unless you can present published proof that homosexuality has this effect then shut up, because I can pull studies left and right that say otherwise. Kind of like this:

http://www.narth.com/docs/does.html

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/118584105/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

http://www.haworthpress.com/store/ArticleAbstract.asp?sid=MSSW3862GJVX9JEJ52EPJT0HEH 0V9NF9&ID=82833

Regardless of how hard I try to find fair articles that drive my claims home, I'm sure BigT will find something wrong with one of these it ;)

[Mr. 420]

Alot of kids in grade school show each other their penis. It's pretty natural and if you say that it didn't happen, you're just in denial. It doesn't matter if you have 2 daddies or 2 mommies.

In first grade, I found out that girls have different parts and I asked a girl down the street that I would show her mine if she showed me hers. Did that make me a future pervert? (Probably yes, but who isn't?) In fourth grade, we had a contest to see who could pee the highest. Does that make me gay?
A lot of grade school kids show there penis huh?
Why are we voting on this agian anyway. Oh yeah because of some gay San Francisco judges. The people already spoke, so I don't know why they are wasting money on putting this on the ballot again.

[HumanSnatcher]

Let's not start bashing weed now. Americans of every politcal spectrum imbibe in that sweet sweet cheeba. It's just that some of us can still function like a normal human being.

Trust me, I'm not bashing it. Reason why I don't have any right now is that its been dry as shit around here for a while. But when fools like him call it medicine with no medical issues, it causes problems

[lilboo]

Mr. 420, homosexuality is not genetic, see my post a handful of pages back.

Also, if the kid showed his cock to the class it's not because of having two daddies, it's because the kid has mental issues. Kids do that in schools across the country, most of whom have some sort of mental handicap. Unless you can present published proof that homosexuality has this effect then shut up, because I can pull studies left and right that say otherwise. Kind of like this:

http://www.narth.com/docs/does.html

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/118584105/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

http://www.haworthpress.com/store/ArticleAbstract.asp?sid=MSSW3862GJVX9JEJ52EPJT0HEH 0V9NF9&ID=82833

Regardless of how hard I try to find fair articles that drive my claims home, I'm sure BigT will find something wrong with one of these it ;)


Seriously.
All the links on the internet do not prove a darn thing.
It's simply a matter of civil rights and that's pretty much it.

[SoonerMatt]

Seriously.
All the links on the internet do not prove a darn thing.
It's simply a matter of civil rights and that's pretty much it.
I know, I've been preaching the civil rights aspect dominantly, but data every now and then (especially when it comes down to genetics/physiology or sociology) can help.

[SpazX]

Does Jerry Falwell count as mainstream Thrust? Are evangelicals not mainstream? To say that "mainstream" religion didn't treat mixed-race marriages is much the same way they now do gay marriages is pretty ignorant. In fact, it's almost the exact same religious traditions with almost the exact same arguments. Both considered sins, both against the teachings of the Bible, both said to be immoral and lead to degraded morals throughout the country if accepted, both groups shunned and rejected by the practitioners of those religious traditions. Hell, not only are the religious arguments almost the same, the legal ones are too.

Why are you drawing a line?

Hateful and intolerant people use religion as a shield. It's a way to give themselves authority. It doesn't make all religion bad, religion does not exist in a bubble unaffected by the feelings of those who practice it. There are plenty of religious groups that are more tolerant of homosexuals and homosexual marriage now just as there were for black people and interracial marriages in the past. You don't need to defend that ones that weren't or pretend like it wasn't a generally accepted opinion.

[thrustbucket]

Then why did that Christian College in South Carolina (Bob Jones University) ban interracial dating because it was against God's will? Please know all the facts before you jump in.

How is one small college a mainstream or major religion?

Please read my entire post before you respond.

I said no major or mainstream religion officially said that interracial dating or marriage was a sin. That means that no mainstream or major religion or church ever would take disciplinary action on someone for dating or marrying interracially.

And when I say mainstream or major religion, I'm talking 5 million or more members. One college that calls themselves "Christian" is not a religion or a church, nor is it any more than a speck of relevance in the grand scheme.

If you have evidence to the contrary, I'm all ears.

[depascal22]

Look above to SpazX's post. Jerry Falwell preached against interracial relations well into the 90s. Liberty University was his for all intents and purposes. If Liberty, Bob Jones, and almost every other fundamentalist/evangelical Christian College banned interracial dating up until recently, wouldn't you say that they were calling it a sin? Falwell even claimed that Brown vs Board of Education was a "satanic plot".

http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Alt/alt.politics/2007-05/msg03374.html


More about Bob Jones:

The announcement amounted to a remarkable turnaround for Bob Jones, a 73-year-old institution that hews to an unapologetic adherence to classic Protestant fundamentalism. After a 13-year legal fight, the university lost its tax exemption in 1983. And as late as Wednesday, the university was attempting to explain the ban on interracial dating according to its belief that the Bible teaches that God does not want a unified and undifferentiated world.

EDIT -- I should've clarified that there are more than five million evangelicals in America. Until the mid to late 90's, Falwell was their "pope". He made many decisions that shaped and influenced the minds and hearts of every evangelical in America and the rest of the world.

[thrustbucket]

No, because there is a huge huge huge difference between something being a sin and something being advised against.

[Layziebones]

No, its illiterate ones like you thats heroes to him. Its McCain not McClain. Unless you have cancer/glaucoma/or another medical malady, its not medicine.

HAhaha. Die Hard.

John McClain for President!

[depascal22]

When a church or any other organized religion is advising against something, it implicitly becomes a sin.

[SpazX]

No, because there is a huge huge huge difference between something being a sin and something being advised against.

They weren't "advised against." The people who did it were shunned, laws were passed against it, and like I posted, it was said to lead to moral degeneration and said to be against the Bible. If that's not a sin then what the hell is?

[The Crotch]

With a name like the crotch, do you go by a bigstinkyhole in gta 4? I saw that the other day but I thought it was a girl.Negatory, but if ya ever see a chick with a mohawk on drums in Rock Band, that's probably me.

Troll. Seriously, guys. Don't argue with trolls.

[JJSP]

There needs to be a link somewhere that says that Proposition 8 would ban marriage for an entire group of people based on their sexuality. Forget whether or not you agree with homosexuality, homosexual parents, homosexual marriage, or homosexual pets - if it passes, the state of California will be allowed to pass a law that blatantly discriminates against a group of people. It never should have passed in the first place, and the Supreme Court overturning it merely remedied that.

[mykevermin]

A lot of grade school kids show there penis huh?
Why are we voting on this agian anyway. Oh yeah because of some gay San Francisco judges. The people already spoke, so I don't know why they are wasting money on putting this on the ballot again.

Remove that sinful hedonistic lesbian avatar at once. Or you're going to hell.

[MeTaDeMoN]

Likewise.

[BigT]

What about the kids with the baggy pants and that crazy rap music? Should we ban them too? What about those little girls with the slut t-shirts? That offends me too. Know what else offends me? Ignant ass fools that get offended at everything.

Yes, most definitely, we should ban "kids with the baggy pants and that crazy rap music" and "little girls with the slut t-shirts" ... however, somewhat older hot girls wearing slutty clothes should not be banned ;).

[mykevermin]

Alan Keyes would approve of older sluts, right?

[BigT]

Alot of kids in grade school show each other their penis. It's pretty natural and if you say that it didn't happen, you're just in denial. It doesn't matter if you have 2 daddies or 2 mommies.

In first grade, I found out that girls have different parts and I asked a girl down the street that I would show her mine if she showed me hers. Did that make me a future pervert? (Probably yes, but who isn't?) In fourth grade, we had a contest to see who could pee the highest. Does that make me gay?

Those are touching childhood stories! And, in my professional opinion, the answer is yes... you might as well move to West Hollywood or Hillcrest right away... :D

[BigT]

Alan Keyes would approve of older sluts, right?
It depends how old... but I haven't really seen any position papers from Ambassador Keyes on this subject so I wouldn't know. ;)

[lilboo]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/lilboo84/WatPalin2.jpg

[Mr. 420]

So two people get married because they love each other and want to start a family.
Without science or adoption gays cant start a family of more than 2. That sucks for them but they shouldnt be getting married and having butt sex and sticking vegetables and vibrators in themselves and each other. And then adopting young children or having a doctor inject semen into them so they can have one.

[von551]

There needs to be a link somewhere that says that Proposition 8 would ban marriage for an entire group of people based on their sexuality. Forget whether or not you agree with homosexuality, homosexual parents, homosexual marriage, or homosexual pets - if it passes, the state of California will be allowed to pass a law that blatantly discriminates against a group of people. It never should have passed in the first place, and the Supreme Court overturning it merely remedied that.

so you really believe that everyone should be able to do what they want? laws are in place for reasons, not to discriminate. should druggies, polygamists, money launderers, etc. cry out discrimination because there are laws forbidding their behavior. we're not talking race or sex here, something that can't be chosen and shouldn't be discriminated against. we're talking about a harmful lifestyle based on perversion and promiscuity.

you think it's OK for four judges to overrule millions of votes? what's the point of voting then? I guess it's OK if you agree with the ruling, huh? it's gotta be even scales all the way across. what if they overturned who won the election, what's the difference? it's politics at it's worst. don't you think? or are you a obama loving socialist that doesn't mind government control over everything we do?

[lilboo]

So two people get married because they love each other and want to start a family.
Without science or adoption gays cant start a family of more than 2. That sucks for them but they shouldnt be getting married and having butt sex and sticking vegetables and vibrators in themselves and each other. And then adopting young children or having a doctor inject semen into them so they can have one.

See here's the problem baby cakes.
People like your parents gave birth to you.

Do you get that? Look what they reproduced?
In fact, I applaud you being here. People like yourself make it more understandable that "breeding" isn't all it's cracked up to be, because people turn out like you.

On the other hand, being a fool is a learned behavior. Maybe in your case your parents happen to be brother/sister. This is why you're pretty fucked in the head? :-k

[lilboo]

so you really believe that everyone should be able to do what they want? laws are in place for reasons, not to discriminate. should druggies, polygamists, money launderers, etc. cry out discrimination because there are laws forbidding their behavior. we're not talking race or sex here, something that can't be chosen and shouldn't be discriminated against. we're talking about a harmful lifestyle based on perversion and promiscuity.

you think it's OK for four judges to overrule millions of votes? what's the point of voting then? I guess it's OK if you agree with the ruling, huh? it's gotta be even scales all the way across. what if they overturned who won the election, what's the difference? it's politics at it's worst. don't you think? or are you a obama loving socialist that doesn't mind government control over everything we do?


#-o
Question: What happens if your son or daughter comes out as gay to you? Be honest.

[JJSP]

so you really believe that everyone should be able to do what they want? laws are in place for reasons, not to discriminate. should druggies, polygamists, money launderers, etc. cry out discrimination because there are laws forbidding their behavior. we're not talking race or sex here, something that can't be chosen and shouldn't be discriminated against. we're talking about a harmful lifestyle based on perversion and promiscuity.

you think it's OK for four judges to overrule millions of votes? what's the point of voting then? I guess it's OK if you agree with the ruling, huh? it's gotta be even scales all the way across. what if they overturned who won the election, what's the difference? it's politics at it's worst. don't you think? or are you a obama loving socialist that doesn't mind government control over everything we do?
I think if it was unconstitutional in the first damn place, and it never should have been voted on. Call me a sympathizer or a socialist, whatever - you view homosexuality as harmful, perverted, and promiscuous - pot, meet kettle.

The original vote was overturned because it was found to be unconstitutional, not because they didn't agree with it. Just because people agree with it doesn't mean it's right.

I really believe that if someone wants to get married, they should be able to. Homosexuality and homosexual marriage doesn't affect heterosexuals in the least (aside from increasing revenue in the wedding, event planning, and retail industries).

Give me one damn reason WHY it's wrong that isn't based on faith or religion, and I might consider your viewpoint. In the meantime, I'm a notary public with the ability to validate marriage licenses - anyone in CA in need of one while it's still legal, come find me.

[lilboo]

Give me one damn reason WHY it's wrong that isn't based on faith or religion, and I might consider your viewpoint. In the meantime, I'm a notary public with the ability to validate marriage licenses - anyone in CA in need of one while it's still legal, come find me.

See man, this is where your wrong. You do not ask bigots that kind of question. They only just spew more hate and more bullshit facts. They will only quote more bible versus, link you to studies and percentages and just a bunch of BS.

I bet a lot of these morons minds would change if and when they have a gay child. If not, then you are an AWFUL parent/person and have no right at all calling someone ELSE immoral.

[HumanSnatcher]

so you really believe that everyone should be able to do what they want? laws are in place for reasons, not to discriminate. should druggies, polygamists, money launderers, etc. cry out discrimination because there are laws forbidding their behavior. we're not talking race or sex here, something that can't be chosen and shouldn't be discriminated against. we're talking about a harmful lifestyle based on perversion and promiscuity.

you think it's OK for four judges to overrule millions of votes? what's the point of voting then? I guess it's OK if you agree with the ruling, huh? it's gotta be even scales all the way across. what if they overturned who won the election, what's the difference? it's politics at it's worst. don't you think? or are you a obama loving socialist that doesn't mind government control over everything we do?

Funny you should mention that. Evidently you were never taught about Jim Crow laws.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws

They were actual LAWS that were discriminating against blacks. You can not put your foot back in your mouth now. Maybe it'll muffle the screams of being proved wrong... And by the way, they actually list examples by state

[von551]

Hey now. How are polygamists hurtful to society? And if you are christian, and believe the bible, what does that say about all the old testement prophets that practiced polygamy?

some of the best prophets/disciples were the biggest sinners. Paul (saul) was one of the biggest persecutors of the early church before he became saved and even after wrote verses like this, "12 I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has strengthened me, because He considered me faithful, putting me into service, (http://biblebrowser.com/1_timothy/1-12.htm) 13 even though I was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor. Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief; (http://biblebrowser.com/1_timothy/1-13.htm) 14 and the grace of our Lord was more than abundant, with the faith and love which are found in Christ Jesus. (http://biblebrowser.com/1_timothy/1-14.htm) 15 It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all. (http://biblebrowser.com/1_timothy/1-15.htm) 16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life. (http://biblebrowser.com/1_timothy/1-16.htm) 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen. (http://biblebrowser.com/1_timothy/1-17.htm) " 1 Timothy 1:12-17

Christians ARE sinners, just forgiven. and plenty of those prophets suffered greatly because of their disobedience, just read the book of jonah.

[von551]

academic papers. P'shaw. Academia is sopping with liberal bias itself. ;)

:lol:

[HumanSnatcher]

some of the best prophets/disciples were the biggest sinners. Paul (saul) was one of the biggest persecutors of the early church before he became saved and even after wrote verses like this, "12 I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has strengthened me, because He considered me faithful, putting me into service, (http://biblebrowser.com/1_timothy/1-12.htm) 13 even though I was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor. Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief; (http://biblebrowser.com/1_timothy/1-13.htm) 14 and the grace of our Lord was more than abundant, with the faith and love which are found in Christ Jesus. (http://biblebrowser.com/1_timothy/1-14.htm) 15 It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all. (http://biblebrowser.com/1_timothy/1-15.htm) 16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life. (http://biblebrowser.com/1_timothy/1-16.htm) 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen. (http://biblebrowser.com/1_timothy/1-17.htm) " 1 Timothy 1:12-17

Christians ARE sinners, just forgiven. and plenty of those prophets suffered greatly because of their disobedience, just read the book of jonah.

That does not answer his question, your merely just quoting the bible

[lilboo]

Religion has no business in Government. I personally do not care about Jebus and that 8 million year old book that was translated like 18,024 times. It has NO relevance to ANYTHING, so quoting it or showing quotes makes you look even more ridiculous.

22 People are idiots and love to be scared and confused about everything. 23 They love to jerk off to hatred, only to cover up some deep rooted insecurity they have inside. 24 Sarah Palin is glorified white trash. lilboo 1:22-24

[Synergy]

So two people get married because they love each other and want to start a family.
Without science or adoption gays cant start a family of more than 2. That sucks for them but they shouldnt be getting married and having butt sex and sticking vegetables and vibrators in themselves and each other. And then adopting young children or having a doctor inject semen into them so they can have one.

Why are you so obsessed with gay sex? I mean, seriously, you can't write a sentence without mentioning dicks, anal, etc. I bet your imagination has strayed to that topic more than once, hasn't it? Do you want me to give you some more visuals? Your lesbian imagery is lacking, I can fill in the blanks for you.

As for your adopting children/insemination comment, you forget that many straight couples can't have children without alternative methods.

so you really believe that everyone should be able to do what they want? laws are in place for reasons, not to discriminate. should druggies, polygamists, money launderers, etc. cry out discrimination because there are laws forbidding their behavior. we're not talking race or sex here, something that can't be chosen and shouldn't be discriminated against. we're talking about a harmful lifestyle based on perversion and promiscuity.

you think it's OK for four judges to overrule millions of votes? what's the point of voting then? I guess it's OK if you agree with the ruling, huh? it's gotta be even scales all the way across. what if they overturned who won the election, what's the difference? it's politics at it's worst. don't you think? or are you a obama loving socialist that doesn't mind government control over everything we do?

By comparing gays to druggies, money launderers and other *criminals* you show yourself to be a complete and utter bigot and homophobe. The judges should and did overrule those votes because the issue itself is unconstitutional. Ask yourself this:

Why should any other person in America get to VOTE about anything pertaining to my personal life? That makes NO sense. I'll never understand why other people, strangers, are so concerned about who I happen to be fucking.

[Mr. 420]

Angry gays frighten me.
Go play some pokemon dungeon in the dungeon sugar.

[lilboo]

Why are you so obsessed with gay sex? I mean, seriously, you can't write a sentence without mentioning dicks, anal, etc. I bet your imagination has strayed to that topic more than once, hasn't it? Do you want me to give you some more visuals? Your lesbian imagery is lacking, I can fill in the blanks for you.


Ya know what's sexy about that? See, when I was like 14, 15 years old. I was a homophobe. I talked almost exactly how Mr 420 talks.


8-)

BTW, you are an asshole for changing your user title Synergy. /+1 Ignore [-(

EDIT: Thanks, Syn! :) :grouphug:

[Synergy]

Ya know what's sexy about that? See, when I was like 14, 15 years old. I was a homophobe. I talked almost exactly how Mr 420 talks.


8-)

BTW, you are an asshole for changing your user title Synergy. /+1 Ignore [-(

Take that back, I changed it just for you. ;)

[HumanSnatcher]

Angry gays frighten me.
Go play some pokemon dungeon in the dungeon sugar.

Thats a two way street

[SpazX]

Would you want your children anally violated with a meat tenderizer? No? Then why would you want gay people to be able to get married?!


This thread would be more hilarious if it weren't actually about people's rights.

[von551]

First, I'd be interested see these studies you speak of

These are all independant studies and can be researched. The gay community HAS admitted it can't find a biological link to homosexuality.

The difference between these top 5 and homosexuality is that a homosexual couple are two consenting adults. There is no risk to themselves or others. They are simply not comparable.

i thought you read my earlier post with all the stats on the gay community. are you in denial of the astronomical rate of std's, divorce, infidelity, weakened economies, etc. by countries that have legalized gay marriage?



It's a biological (despite what you think) difference. It also affects a higher percentage of African Americans. What if we all turned black? How much more prevalent would stds be?

again, this is YOU "thinking" or hoping, i guess, homosexuality is biological. This goes against EVERY study ever conducted to prove this. Like i said, studies conducted by the gay lobby paying scientists, hoping they'd find they link, CAN'T. it's science, not what i think. of course straight people are just as guilty for spreading and contracting diseases by sleeping around, it's just more astronomical in the gay lifestyle.

There is no liberal media bias. There is no liberal media bias. There is no liberal media bias. And I have dozens of academic papers to back this up, if you'd like to see them.

Really? like they weren't in love with Obama in the beginning because he was one of them. it's like they're teenage girls at a new kids on the block concert. how many news channels are left wing? all except fox, who's WAY right. i'm neither, i'm an independent that appreciates freedom from controlling/corrupt government.

hey, on this political note, take 7 minutes of your day to watch this VIDEO (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdriCrjGIaY) about the media's influence on who we vote for. It's relating to ron paul's attention (or lack of) compared to clinton and obama in the media, but you don't have to be his supporter or a republican to see how disgusting it is how the media controls what we see and influences and limits our choices. pretty disturbing...

[Dr Mario Kart]

not genetic is different than not biological. I dont think I want to spend too much time on this though, since no minds are going to be changed. Onward! To the destruction of marriage!

Obama was getting more coverage than McCain, but the vast majority of it was negative, whereas McCain was getting almost no negative coverage.

[von551]

<~ Gay and HIV negative.
<~ Has a BF who is HIV negative

welcome to the minority of the minority. that's great man, no one should get that disease that came from freakin' apes in the first place.

[Dr Mario Kart]

I've read PLENTY of studies back in college showing a biological effect. I've never seen anything credible regarding any other factor.

[lilboo]

#-o
Question: What happens if your son or daughter comes out as gay to you? Be honest.

You never answered that, Von.

[Synergy]

I've read PLENTY of studies back in college showing a biological effect. I've never seen anything credible regarding any other factor.

So have I. His facts are BS.

[The Crotch]

Fuck this shit, DMK. I normally advocate arguing even if there's no way in hell you'll convince your opponent if only for the sake of fence-sitters reading your arguments, but trolls just aren't worth it. It's more entertaining to watch Snatcher verbally assault a bunch of bridge-dwellers who are only here to rile folks up - Christ, ''rile folks up,'' what decade am I from again? - than try to argue.

[von551]

So if this passes, what is stopping people from trying to get black marriage banned? What about interracial marriage banned? These would be deemed ridiculous by the majority of the population, whats the difference between them and this.

Discrimination is Discrimination. Period.

wow. really? race is not a choice. it's not a sin to marry into other races. homosexuality is a BEHAVIOR. it's also a sin.

has anyone not noticed that are laws aren't just ideas someone thought up, but are derived from a book? The Bible would be that book. when we start making our own laws to appease our desires we ruin ourselves. This Bible verse sums it up pretty well "There is a way which seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death." Proverbs 14:12 The laws of God were taken and used to make our laws. They're not just suggestions, but commandments, and when we stray we suffer the consequences.

[SpazX]

This dude had the conclusion before he even started thinking about the subject. He's not going to recognize studies that suggest a biological basis or even contemplate the possibility that (biological or not) being attracted to the same sex isn't under one's control.

[JJSP]

Von, you're not even touching my post.

As far as countries that have legalized same-sex marriage, you've got Canada, South Africa, Spain, Netherlands, Belgium, and as of 1/1/09, Norway. Of those, the only one with an abnormally high STD rate is South Africa, and they've been dealing with AIDS for fucking YEARS.

In Denmark, studies have shown that in the years following their recognization of same sex partnerships, heterosexual marriage rates are at the HIGHEST they've been since 1970. Ditto for Norway, Sweden, and Iceland.

[lordwow]

von: You keep saying there are studies out there.

Name a study. Name a journal. Name an author. Or are you just making this crap up?

[JJSP]

wow. really? race is not a choice. it's not a sin to marry into other races. homosexuality is a BEHAVIOR. it's also a sin.

has anyone not noticed that are laws aren't just ideas someone thought up, but are derived from a book? The Bible would be that book. when we start making our own laws to appease our desires we ruin ourselves. This Bible verse sums it up pretty well "There is a way which seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death." Proverbs 14:12 The laws of God were taken and used to make our laws. They're not just suggestions, but commandments, and when we stray we suffer the consequences.
Says your religion.

The Bible is a fairy tale. Good for a bedtime story, but nothing to live your life by.

[GuilewasNK]

After missing two days due to work travel all I have to say is this to those against gay marriage (one of the few times I embrace idealism)...

Why don't you actually try to be mature and get to know some gay people before you "think" about the situation. Believe it or not, gay people are as diverse as any other group of people. Some good, some bad, some rich, some poor, some black, some white, some every other race on the earth.

The Earth isn't going to stop spinning if gay people marry. Believe it or not, your life won't change. You can still live how you want with out denying that right to others. If you are Christian and that is why your are against it, you aren't supposed to judge others in the first place.

I support the right of gay people to pursue happiness. Anything less that that is un-American.


Originally Posted by Synergy http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5052676#post5052676)
Why are you so obsessed with gay sex? I mean, seriously, you can't write a sentence without mentioning dicks, anal, etc. I bet your imagination has strayed to that topic more than once, hasn't it? Do you want me to give you some more visuals? Your lesbian imagery is lacking, I can fill in the blanks for you.

:lol:

At anyrate, it's funny how insecure Mr. 420 is.

[Synergy]

wow. really? race is not a choice. it's not a sin to marry into other races. homosexuality is a BEHAVIOR. it's also a sin.

has anyone not noticed that are laws aren't just ideas someone thought up, but are derived from a book? The Bible would be that book. when we start making our own laws to appease our desires we ruin ourselves. This Bible verse sums it up pretty well "There is a way which seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death." Proverbs 14:12 The laws of God were taken and used to make our laws. They're not just suggestions, but commandments, and when we stray we suffer the consequences.

The bible was written by MAN, who is inherently flawed. Without getting into my personal beliefs, the bible argument is weak at best. The bible also says you shouldn't wear wool and linen together. Give me a break.

[von551]

People here are not against religion because of the acts of a minority of morons. This isn't like gun control. This is an issue that has 10,000s of years of history proving that religion is a festering puss on society that ruins the lives of everyone and anyone that isn't 100% in line with the followers close minded beliefs. I would never say we should kill all Christians or that I hope people like BigoT die as others have. However if I woke up and found out that every Christian on the planet had died, or if I had a way to give you all your own planet where you could just feud with each other over silly beliefs vs the rest of us.....id be relieved.

stay alive long enough my friend and you just may get your wish. i pity the irony the world will experience when the church IS gone. who's going to keep society in check? it'll be a free for all, anything goes. and before you think I'm a nut for believing in End Times and the Rapture, look around you. The Bible has prophecied of the days, "similar to the days of Noah, when men wondered at their achievments, sexual immorality runs rampant, and they say, 'who can stop us'?" paraphrased from the Bible. You don't have to believe the spiritual/moral prophecies in the Bible though, just look at the Bible claiming a one world union will be created, money no longer need with the mark of the beast (can you say federal reserve in europe?), the leaders around the world are literally saying they want a united world and one leader to "fix" everything. this is straight from the Bible, 2,000 years ago. It's frightening to see these things unraveling before my eyes and even when I'm filled with doubt of the Bible's prophecies coming true, i need only to watch world events and see it confirmed that we're entering the end...

[lilboo]

All Civil Rights conversation aside for a moment.
Von, you must be one of the most boring person that anyone would ever hang out with :shock:

[lordwow]

stay alive long enough my friend and you just may get your wish. i pity the irony the world will experience when the church IS gone. who's going to keep society in check? it'll be a free for all, anything goes. and before you think I'm a nut for believing in End Times and the Rapture, look around you. The Bible has prophecied of the days, "similar to the days of Noah, when men wondered at their achievments, sexual immorality runs rampant, and they say, 'who can stop us'?" paraphrased from the Bible. You don't have to believe the spiritual/moral prophecies in the Bible though, just look at the Bible claiming a one world union will be created, money no longer need with the mark of the beast (can you say federal reserve in europe?), the leaders around the world are literally saying they want a united world and one leader to "fix" everything. this is straight from the Bible, 2,000 years ago. It's frightening to see these things unraveling before my eyes and even when I'm filled with doubt of the Bible's prophecies coming true, i need only to watch world events and see it confirmed that we're entering the end...

And... that's all we needed to hear.

[mykevermin]

i'm neither, i'm an independent that appreciates freedom from controlling/corrupt government.

And, to complete this thought for you, someone who is wholly *unwilling* to extend those freedoms to other citizens. Three cheers for differential treatment of Americans!

Let me ask you an honest question: what should society do with homosexuals? I'm fairly certain that you're not content with simply denying them the right to marry. Should there be mandated treatment/rehabilitation from homosexuality? Should we incarcerate them in prisons or institutions? What should American do with homosexuals? Obviously you're not interested in parity or tolerance, so what do you propose? Your unwillingness to exhibit tolerance simply can't rest with, I'm sure, making sure they aren't able to legally marry.

von: You keep saying there are studies out there.

Name a study. Name a journal. Name an author. Or are you just making this crap up?

Jesus. 1. The Bible. Published by God, Inc., Heaven.

So two people get married because they love each other and want to start a family.
Without science or adoption gays cant start a family of more than 2. That sucks for them but they shouldnt be getting married and having butt sex and sticking vegetables and vibrators in themselves and each other. And then adopting young children or having a doctor inject semen into them so they can have one.

Paging Dr. Freud. Paging Dr. Freud.

[Synergy]

And... that's all we needed to hear.

Seriously. Talk about nutjobs.

lilboo, we should have a gay thread where we can discuss relevant social issues. Like just saying no to flannel and popped collars. :D

[mykevermin]

stay alive long enough my friend and you just may get your wish. i pity the irony the world will experience when the church IS gone. who's going to keep society in check? it'll be a free for all, anything goes. and before you think I'm a nut for believing in End Times and the Rapture, look around you. The Bible has prophecied of the days, "similar to the days of Noah, when men wondered at their achievments, sexual immorality runs rampant, and they say, 'who can stop us'?" paraphrased from the Bible. You don't have to believe the spiritual/moral prophecies in the Bible though, just look at the Bible claiming a one world union will be created, money no longer need with the mark of the beast (can you say federal reserve in europe?), the leaders around the world are literally saying they want a united world and one leader to "fix" everything. this is straight from the Bible, 2,000 years ago. It's frightening to see these things unraveling before my eyes and even when I'm filled with doubt of the Bible's prophecies coming true, i need only to watch world events and see it confirmed that we're entering the end...

Can I have your CoD4 when you get raptured?

Seriously. Talk about nutjobs.

lilboo, we should have a gay thread where we can discuss relevant social issues. Like just saying no to flannel and popped collars. :D

Say no to flannel? What, so now you want to oppress the diesel dykes? Talk about your all-time double standards! ;)

[lilboo]

Actually, you're right.
I need your lez-pertise on something. In our new apartment, we will have concrete walls. I believe hammering or drilling will cause cracks :(

What's the best way to hang stuff up?
Or do you recommend using any certain tools? What kind and how?

*scurries off to bake cookies*

[lilboo]

:rofl:
Wait, this is relevant to this thread.

Today, Oct 30, is the 3 year anniversary for me and my BF.
<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3

I am so happy. Why won't you assrags let me marry this man?! :(

[HumanSnatcher]

Seriously. Talk about nutjobs.

lilboo, we should have a gay thread where we can discuss relevant social issues. Like just saying no to flannel and popped collars. :D

And yes to big furry bears, and no to gym bunnies ;-)

[von551]

So...
Why are we (not the thread) arguing and making all kind of POINTLESS points (:lol:) when our buddies up north are totally cool with it?

Seriously.
There is no argument at all in this--gays have a right to marry and that's that. All this "But..."s and "Well..."'s are stupid. None of them make sense. I don't care where you quote, what you cite and who you worship. Gay people are very much real and gay people are in no way going anywhere anytime soon--deal with it. We have rights like everyone else.

If you don't like it, deal with it and STFU and move on with YOUR life. In the end, you're just wasting YOUR time and energy battling something that has no use in your life.

so taking the rainbow, one of God's promises, and perverting it for your lifestyle isn't enough? now you want our blood too? you already have your civil unions, benefits, tax breaks, etc. How is that not enough? Oh, pity the poor oppressed gay community, yeah right. You guys have way more politicall power than ANY other group per capita. Now your community wants to take the most sacred act of intimacy God created, marriage, and pervert that too? turn it into a right? It's not a right, it's a gift, from God. A symbol of how we're always trying to reunite to Him no matter how we try to do it. God made man in His image, a woman from man, and a man wants to reunite with the woman just like humans want to reunite with God as we once were before the "fall" in the Garden of Eden. Believe it or not, but that's the truth...

[lilboo]

so taking the rainbow, one of God's promises, and perverting it for your lifestyle isn't enough? now you want our blood too? you already have your civil unions, benefits, tax breaks, etc. How is that not enough? Oh, pity the poor oppressed gay community, yeah right. You guys have way more politicall power than ANY other group per capita. Now your community wants to take the most sacred act of intimacy God created, marriage, and pervert that too? turn it into a right? It's not a right, it's a gift, from God. A symbol of how we're always trying to reunite to Him no matter how we try to do it. God made man in His image, a woman from man, and a man wants to reunite with the woman just like humans want to reunite with God as we once were before the "fall" in the Garden of Eden. Believe it or not, but that's the truth...



RELIGION has no place in making laws.
In other words: Fuck God

And uh.....we don't really have civil unions, baby doll. Not all over the country at least..and it's haters like you that are trying to take that away from us.

[mykevermin]

Rainbows have a liberal bias, dude.

[The Crotch]

Shit. I know I swore off this topic, but then he had to get all rapture-y, and this is an odd subject for me. Because as much as I'd like to laugh at him for his literal interpretation of the Bible, I am instead forced to laugh at him for never having actually fucking read the Bible. Because as weird as I find many elements of Christianity, this particular element was born out of the fever-dreams of Nelson fucking Darvy. The Bible is actually pretty much blameless here. Christ do I ever wish Daroga was here.

[Synergy]

Can I have your CoD4 when you get raptured?



Say no to flannel? What, so now you want to oppress the diesel dykes? Talk about your all-time double standards! ;)

there's no excuse for flannel, no matter how diesel you want to be!

Actually, you're right.
I need your lez-pertise on something. In our new apartment, we will have concrete walls. I believe hammering or drilling will cause cracks :(

What's the best way to hang stuff up?
Or do you recommend using any certain tools? What kind and how?

*scurries off to bake cookies*

LOL, I hate you lilboo. I don't know how many times I have to tell you I suck with tools! I'm femme in the streets..butch in the sheets. I guess I could pretend to help you. I think you might...uh...need some kind of joint compound. And a laser level thing. Make sure you use a straight-edge chisel first..

:rofl:
Wait, this is relevant to this thread.

Today, Oct 30, is the 3 year anniversary for me and my BF.
<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3

I am so happy. Why won't you assrags let me marry this man?! :(

Aww, cuties. Shouldn't you be off shagging? I love my hot girlfriend, but marriage gives me the shakes. :cold:

And yes to big furry bears, and no to gym bunnies ;-)

I need more friends who are bears...I have an overabundance of gym bunny hunnies.

[Mr. 420]

Those stupid judges overturning the peoples vote has created this whole stupid thread. I love how lilboob calls me a homophobe like it knows me.

[mykevermin]

Those stupid judges overturning the peoples vote has created this whole stupid thread. I love how lilboob calls me a homophobe like it knows me.

I totally agree. Where in the world would he get a foolish idea like that???

So two people get married because they love each other and want to start a family.
Without science or adoption gays cant start a family of more than 2. That sucks for them but they shouldnt be getting married and having butt sex and sticking vegetables and vibrators in themselves and each other. And then adopting young children or having a doctor inject semen into them so they can have one.

oh.

[thrustbucket]

some of the best prophets/disciples were the biggest sinners. Paul (saul) was one of the biggest persecutors of the early church before he became saved and even after wrote verses like this, "12 I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has strengthened me, because He considered me faithful, putting me into service, (http://biblebrowser.com/1_timothy/1-12.htm) 13 even though I was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor. Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief; (http://biblebrowser.com/1_timothy/1-13.htm) 14 and the grace of our Lord was more than abundant, with the faith and love which are found in Christ Jesus. (http://biblebrowser.com/1_timothy/1-14.htm) 15 It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all. (http://biblebrowser.com/1_timothy/1-15.htm) 16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life. (http://biblebrowser.com/1_timothy/1-16.htm) 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen. (http://biblebrowser.com/1_timothy/1-17.htm) " 1 Timothy 1:12-17

Christians ARE sinners, just forgiven. and plenty of those prophets suffered greatly because of their disobedience, just read the book of jonah.

So are you trying to say that polygamy is a sin and all the old testament prophets were sinning?

[HumanSnatcher]

Preach it, brother. I <3 bears.

Heh, my partner is big ol' cuddly teddy bear. Hes my Yogi and I'm his BooBoo lol

[HumanSnatcher]

From the OTT http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFBOQzSk14c

[SpazX]

Those stupid judges overturning the peoples vote has created this whole stupid thread. I love how lilboob calls me a homophobe like it knows me.

Like it knows you? Wtf?

Stupid judges trying to figure out what is and is not constitutional, what gives them the right?!

[lilboo]

Got it.
Mr 420 is a bottom! Hawt! :hot:

Dude, don't worry.. it's scary at first but you're gonna fuckin LOVE it!!!

[HumanSnatcher]

Got it.
Mr 420 is a bottom! Hawt! :hot:

Dude, don't worry.. it's scary at first but you're gonna fuckin LOVE it!!!

Poppers would really help to losen up a bit as well....heh heh heh

[Hex]

so taking the rainbow, one of God's promises, and perverting it for your lifestyle isn't enough?

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Oh my god, you are a comedy goldmine. Are yew a GAWD WARRIOR?

CAG is DAWRK SIDED :shock:

[lordwow]

"They may take our rainbows, but they'll never take our MARRRRRRIAGGGGGEEE!"

[MSI Magus]

stay alive long enough my friend and you just may get your wish. i pity the irony the world will experience when the church IS gone. who's going to keep society in check? it'll be a free for all, anything goes. and before you think I'm a nut for believing in End Times and the Rapture, look around you. The Bible has prophecied of the days, "similar to the days of Noah, when men wondered at their achievments, sexual immorality runs rampant, and they say, 'who can stop us'?" paraphrased from the Bible. You don't have to believe the spiritual/moral prophecies in the Bible though, just look at the Bible claiming a one world union will be created, money no longer need with the mark of the beast (can you say federal reserve in europe?), the leaders around the world are literally saying they want a united world and one leader to "fix" everything. this is straight from the Bible, 2,000 years ago. It's frightening to see these things unraveling before my eyes and even when I'm filled with doubt of the Bible's prophecies coming true, i need only to watch world events and see it confirmed that we're entering the end...

1. I dont give a shit. If I die and find out Christians are right I would rather spit in the face of your God then bow my knee. Seriously I have a spine. If I die and find out there is a God and get to sit and talk with him and find out why the world is the way it is and he hasnt interfered there better be a damn good reason, and if there is I can respect that. But your God is an angry, childish and petty God. To him like I said I will refuse to bow.

2. You talk about the prophecy of the bible but you ignore everything the bible has said thats contradictory or that you personally dont want to believe in. Again Christians are cherry pickers and thus cant be respected.

3. You say who will keep world order when the church is gone. Hmmmmm well lets see before Chrstians came around how wild was the Native Americans life style? They lived in peace with the earth and really it wasnt that much more or less peaceful then modern times. Much of Europe there are like 20% or less that believe in God.....yet they have more peace then us. Then there are countless ancient civilizations which again prospered. But eh fuch it right. Your a christian so you can just keep cherry picking.

4. I cant believe the time you guys are wasting on Mr 420. No one is as stupid as he is and not a troll. Seriously the guy screams troll. Everything out of his mouth is like a 15 year old future frat boy....its pretty damn obvious. I am ashamed wasting my time on a jackass like von but it beats 420.

[Mr. 420]

I feel really, really bad for you gays. Not just because your gay but because you will never know what it is like to have your mind work properly.
Bye Bye

[SpazX]

Troll.

Though I have to say, do you really think dildos and vibrators are only used by gay men? Or do you just also hate women (and some straight dudes, I'm sure)?

[Synergy]

I feel really, really bad for you gays. Not just because your gay but because you will never know what it is like to have your mind work properly.
Bye Bye

Ha. I could be really arrogant here, but I won't. Coming from someone who quite likely spends a good deal of his time high, that's rich.

Troll.

Though I have to say, do you really think dildos and vibrators are only used by gay men? Or do you just also hate women (and some straight dudes, I'm sure)?

:applause:

[SpazX]

Oh shit he edited out his whole "sticking plastic shit in yourselves" shtick. Wish I quoted it.

[Mr. 420]

You guys got me too worked up and mods deleted some stuff.
I better stop before you bitches get me banned. :twoguns::grouphug:

[SoonerMatt]

I had a crappy day yesterday. I was afraid today was going to be an extension, but Mr. 420, you've made me laugh whole-heatedly. Thank you for your humorous troll antics. What a clown, this guy is.

[Mr. 420]

Go have some butt sex and you'll feel better.

[The Crotch]

Sounds like a plan to me!

[stonefry]

1. I dont give a shit. If I die and find out Christians are right I would rather spit in the face of your God then bow my knee......

2. You talk about the prophecy of the bible but you ignore everything the bible has said thats contradictory or that you personally dont want to believe in. Again Christians are cherry pickers and thus cant be respected.


1. Spit/bow are not the two options. The two options are eternal life or eternal damnation. Seems pretty risky to think about it your way.

2. I think Christians "cherry pick" because they talk about what they know. Of course every christian doesn't know every thing about the bible. I truly believe that there are no contradictions in the bible. Obviously there are parts that are difficult to understand, that is why we have pastors/scholars to explain them.

[GuilewasNK]

Go have some butt sex and you'll feel better.

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/8721/hah21uj.gif

[SpazX]

2. I think Christians "cherry pick" because they talk about what they know. Of course every christian doesn't know every thing about the bible. I truly believe that there are no contradictions in the bible. Obviously there are parts that are difficult to understand, that is why we have pastors/scholars to explain them.

But what about when pastors/scholars say that they're contradictions? *head asplodes*

[shrike4242]

You guys got me too worked up and mods deleted some stuff.
I better stop before you bitches get me banned. :twoguns::grouphug:We'll start with one day's worth of you looking and not posting, and see where that goes.

[lordwow]

:applause:

[mykevermin]

shrike has a liberal bias.

[shrike4242]

shrike has a liberal bias.No, I just think someone needs to sit in the "I don't need to post" corner for a day.

There's a big difference in posts from the individual in question versus the rest of the people in here.

[Hex]

You missed the part of the thread where everything has a liberal bias. ;)

[shrike4242]

You missed the part of the thread where everything has a liberal bias. ;)No, I missed that.

Go back to the discussion, time for me to leave.

[mykevermin]

leaving has a liberal bias.

[MSI Magus]

1. Spit/bow are not the two options. The two options are eternal life or eternal damnation. Seems pretty risky to think about it your way.

2. I think Christians "cherry pick" because they talk about what they know. Of course every christian doesn't know every thing about the bible. I truly believe that there are no contradictions in the bible. Obviously there are parts that are difficult to understand, that is why we have pastors/scholars to explain them.


1. The bible if I recall says every knee shall bow on judgement day. I know I have had many Christians tell me that I can believe the heretic things I do but my knee too shall bow. The point I was making here is that I will gladly take the damnation. Any God that would doom a good hearted person to hell because because he/she didnt believe in them is not a God worth believing in. If God exists and gave us free will and critical thinking then damns us for using the 2....then thats just screwed up.

2. Yes, it just shows how lazy Christians are. You believe in something you know nothing about and then just take the words of others that you consider "authorities" on the subject like a pastor. Well guess what kiddo, the real authorities have spoke and while some have remained Christian even those have said that the bible is full of contradictions, myths and other problems. Again bringing up a favorite example is the fact that historically and going by the bible it is known that December was not Christs birthday.....yet you people still buy it whole sale and get mad at anyone that points out the truth. Then there are areas you choose to ignore like as someone else pointed it out the same part of the bible that talks about homosexuality being a sin also talks abut how its ok to beat your fucking wife.

I am sorry but as I have said faith is ok believing in the bible is a joke. And its sad that your content to be ignorant and a cherry picker to hold on to your beliefs. Do some research on what you fucking believe if nothing else.....

And thank you shrike for stepping in and shutting 420 up. It doesnt matter if the guy is a troll or if he is just really that much of a fucking moron. Either way you step over a line when you start talking about the stuff he was in the moderated posts.

[Romis]

The fact that seems to underline this whole debate is more the "benefits" a married spouse is entitled to. Corporations, Insurance Agencies and other companies that provide coverage to a "Spouse" are againist the issue in Full Force

Why shouldn't a couple (gay, lesbian, or whatever) who care and love each other be allowed to "Marry"
In some states, for years if a man & a woman lived together for XX amount years they were said to be "common-law" married, aren't these other people entitled to benefits such as:
Visiting there loved one in a hospital, legally acting on their behalf, or receiving the same "spousal" benefits? Some divorced couples still are entitled to certain benefits even after the "Marriage" has ended.

A marriage certificate basically is proof that this person is with this person -solely, (well, we know how usually goes this day) so it's not some anointment from a higher power, its just a legal certification.. So, why not let them
legally Commit,

Ever religion has different views, but doesn't most of the say "Do Not Judge Others"
Wasn't it written in our Declaration of Independence that we should all "Have the right to the Pursuit of Happiness..?"

And Isn't that all they want to do is Be Happy and Left Alone to live their lives. (of course with today's rate of divorce that may not be but 3 to 5 years)

[Javery]

This thread is unbelievably fascinating.

Any God that would doom a good hearted person to hell because because he/she didnt believe in them is not a God worth believing in.

I agree 100%.

[HumanSnatcher]

The fact that seems to underline this whole debate is more the "benefits" a married spouse is entitled to. Corporations, Insurance Agencies and other companies that provide coverage to a "Spouse" are againist the issue in Full Force

Why shouldn't a couple (gay, lesbian, or whatever) who care and love each other be allowed to "Marry"
In some states, for years if a man & a woman lived together for XX amount years they were said to be "common-law" married, aren't these other people entitled to benefits such as:
Visiting there loved one in a hospital, legally acting on their behalf, or receiving the same "spousal" benefits? Some divorced couples still are entitled to certain benefits even after the "Marriage" has ended.

A marriage certificate basically is proof that this person is with this person -solely, (well, we know how usually goes this day) so it's not some anointment from a higher power, its just a legal certification.. So, why not let them
legally Commit,

Ever religion has different views, but doesn't most of the say "Do Not Judge Others"
Wasn't it written in our Declaration of Independence that we should all "Have the right to the Pursuit of Happiness..?"

And Isn't that all they want to do is Be Happy and Left Alone to live their lives. (of course with today's rate of divorce that may not be but 3 to 5 years)

Well, some states, like Virginia, in their haste to pass such discriminitory acts did away with common law. The wording was such that you HAVE to be legally married. It did not specify gender, if i recall. So in the end their fucking over straight couples that live together as well

[Mr. 420]

I apologize for everything I said.
I am sorry if I made anyone feel angry or disgusted.
I made a mistake.

[depascal22]

I apologize for everything I said.
I am sorry if I made anyone feel angry or disgusted.
I made a mistake.


Imus sounded more believable.

[GuilewasNK]

Well, some states, like Virginia, in their haste to pass such discriminitory acts did away with common law. The wording was such that you HAVE to be legally married. It did not specify gender, if i recall. So in the end their fucking over straight couples that live together as well

Virginia sucks on so many levels it isn't even funny. The only reason I stay here is because I can't afford to move at the moment.

I still find it amusing that they had to consolidate schools in my county despite the fact we have a state lottery designed to help fund schools. I'd really like to see where that money goes, but that is another discussion for another time.

[depascal22]

Virginia sucks on so many levels it isn't even funny. The only reason I stay here is because I can't afford to move at the moment.

I still find it amusing that they had to consolidate schools in my county despite the fact we have a state lottery designed to help fund schools. I'd really like to see where that money goes, but that is another discussion for another time.

Don't ask why county commisioner gotta have a nice car..hah. Don't ask why the school board gotta have nice houses..hah. Don't ask no questions.

[homeland]

Don't ask why county commisioner gotta have a nice car..hah. Don't ask why the school board gotta have nice houses..hah. Don't ask no questions.

Its the trickle down effect at work!

[HumanSnatcher]

Virginia sucks on so many levels it isn't even funny. The only reason I stay here is because I can't afford to move at the moment.

I still find it amusing that they had to consolidate schools in my county despite the fact we have a state lottery designed to help fund schools. I'd really like to see where that money goes, but that is another discussion for another time.

I know as soon as me and my partner feel comfortable with it, I'm moving to Memphis

[mykevermin]

I apologize for everything I said.
I am sorry if I made anyone feel angry or disgusted.
I made a mistake.

Don't apologize for everything.

Apologize for having dismally poor rationale for your position.

Granted, I have great disdain for people who are against gay marriage, as if it affects their lives negatively, or will lead to the downfall of society.

But your trolling tripe was of a whole other order. Insulting, ignorant, hateful, and extraordinarily naive at the sorts of sexual activities many many straight people get down to on a daily basis.

So it isn't your opinion on gay marriage I hate, it's the shitty way you went about your argument.

[Mr. 420]

Thats exactly what I was trying to apologize for.
I spent Halloween in San Francisco and actually had a few good discussions on the topic with some people but they still can't change my vote. They did however give some good points that almost made me change my mind.

[BigT]

Thats exactly what I was trying to apologize for.
I spent Halloween in San Francisco and actually had a few good discussions on the topic with some people but they still can't change my vote. They did however give some good points that almost made me change my mind.

That's why you should avoid going to San Fran :D
To quote Eric Cartman: "San Francisco is the breeding ground of hippies!"

Care to share the persuasive arguments provided by your erudite acquaintances, which almost led to your change of heart?

[stonefry]

I'll keep this short.
The point I was making here is that I will gladly take the damnation. Any God that would doom a good hearted person to hell because because he/she didnt believe in them is not a God worth believing in. Gladly taking damnation? Think about that.

Yes, it just shows how lazy Christians are. You believe in something you know nothing about and then just take the words of others that you consider "authorities" on the subject...You believe in things you know nothing about every day.

Well guess what kiddo... I'm 31.
And my Dad calls me that, lol.

Again bringing up a favorite example is the fact that historically and going by the bible it is known that December was not Christs birthday.....yet you people still buy it whole sale and get mad at anyone that points out the truth. Wow, this is the example you sight? Who cares when we celebrate it? And don't say "you people," Christians aren't the only people that celebrate Christmas.

To get back on topic, marriage is to be between a man and a woman. It is defined in Genesis, chapter two. Man didn't create marriage, God did. He defined it, and I don't believe we should change it. At the same time, it makes me really uncomfortable to see people using stupid scare tactics to force their beliefs on others. The whole thing about forcing our kids to learn about it in school and such. We know that's really bending the truth. I vote yes, and I hope others do too. I am not going to go out on the streets and try to convince others to do likewise though.

[lordwow]

To get back on topic, marriage is to be between a man and a woman. It is defined in Genesis, chapter two. Man didn't create marriage, God did. He defined it, and I don't believe we should change it. At the same time, it makes me really uncomfortable to see people using stupid scare tactics to force their beliefs on others. The whole thing about forcing our kids to learn about it in school and such. We know that's really bending the truth. I vote yes, and I hope others do too. I am not going to go out on the streets and try to convince others to do likewise though.

And what about those of us that choose not believe in the Bible, God, or other religious institutions? Wouldn't this definition be "forcing their beliefs on others?"

[mykevermin]

You'll get your belief forced on you when you FRY IN HELL FOR ETERNITY, HEATHEN!

[MSI Magus]

I'll keep this short.
Gladly taking damnation? Think about that.

You believe in things you know nothing about every day.

I'm 31.
And my Dad calls me that, lol.

Wow, this is the example you sight? Who cares when we celebrate it? And don't say "you people," Christians aren't the only people that celebrate Christmas.

To get back on topic, marriage is to be between a man and a woman. It is defined in Genesis, chapter two. Man didn't create marriage, God did. He defined it, and I don't believe we should change it. At the same time, it makes me really uncomfortable to see people using stupid scare tactics to force their beliefs on others. The whole thing about forcing our kids to learn about it in school and such. We know that's really bending the truth. I vote yes, and I hope others do too. I am not going to go out on the streets and try to convince others to do likewise though.

Wow you really are an ignorant little asshat huh? Hey I will say this and leave it at this. You live by a book of lies, I live by a set of principles. So yes I have thought about it and you know, I would take damnation any day over being a little tool bowing to a corrupt figure. Let your God be real it will just prove everything I have ever said is right. And no I do not believe in things every day that I know nothing about. I educate myself reading constantly, I change my views on things or at least am willing to. And In my heart there are few things I 100% believe because their are few things that can be proven to me(for instance science shows that evolution is probably true but it cant be proven in the most concrete of manners so I dont just accept it as 100% fact). One of the only things I believe in is that a life of philosophy/questioning, education and principles beats a life of accepting the word of morons, lies and refusing to ever look at things objectively as Christians do.

Have a nice day!

[lilboo]

I am so embarrassed that I went to Catholic School for 9 years. I am SO happy that I eventually used common sense and really thought about things and realize: This shit makes no sense.

SO happy I am not apart of the people who complain about the problems, yet, they ARE the problem...:-x

[MSI Magus]

You'll get your belief forced on you when you FRY IN HELL FOR ETERNITY, HEATHEN!

Exactly I always love this stance. Whenever I took philosophy a few years back we had religious questions that were brought up. There was 1 chick in the class who just absolutely even as an educational practice refused to question religion and pretty much insisted we would all burn in hell. You should have seen the look on her face when I turned to her and said "Ya, well what if your God is just being tested by a greater God". "For making people burn in hell for stuff as stupid as questioning him he will have failed his test as he said we failed ours". "Now me and my kind are in good with the real God for standing by justice and righteousness even when an evil God and his moronic followers tortured us"

Completely freaking shut her up for the rest of the semester. If there is a God and he is a Just God he would be happy we use the critical thinking skills he gave us.

[thrustbucket]

And what about those of us that choose not believe in the Bible, God, or other religious institutions? Wouldn't this definition be "forcing their beliefs on others?"

Well that's the real crux, isn't it? Those people like you, feel religion forced on them in cases like this. Those that are religious, feel people like you and your views forced on them.
Not a real cut and dry situation in that regard.

[MSI Magus]

I am so embarrassed that I went to Catholic School for 9 years. I am SO happy that I eventually used common sense and really thought about things and realize: This shit makes no sense.

SO happy I am not apart of the people who complain about the problems, yet, they ARE the problem...:-x

Heh I had 2 years in a Baptist school myself. Freaking taught by a southern baptist to boot! We were forced to go to Church or be expelled and we also had to go to Chapel twice a week during school hours.....every other day we had lessons from the bible. Even our normal classes like earth science we wernt taught facts we were taught crap on how to disproove people that say the earth is more then 3,000 years old.

Best part of the school was whenever they did a sermon yearly where they had everyone close their eyes then raise their hands if they wernt saved while we all prayed. They then spotted the young kids that raised their hands and then during their next class pulled them out of class, took them down to the gym teachers area and converted them. I know its not a rumor because I stupidly raised my hand the first year and even become a hardcore Christian for awhile. Thankfully like you I was smart enough to see through things and educate myself. And unlike stonefry my education and ability to critical think allowed me to see the truth of things.

[MSI Magus]

Well that's the real crux, isn't it? Those people like you, feel religion forced on them in cases like this. Those that are religious, feel people like you and your views forced on them.
Not a real cut and dry situation in that regard.

Ummmm actually it kind of us. Because we aint forcing shit on them. We dont try to take their rights or even generally demand that we should be married in their church. Most people dont even call to tax churches......so how again is it that our views are forced on them? Ya they may feel they are but that doesnt make it true, on the non religious peoples side of things as prop 8 shows THEY are trying to force theirs.

[Friend of Sonic]

OMG, just let the gays marry Herb, Maury's gonna be on in ten minutes, shush.

[lordwow]

Well that's the real crux, isn't it? Those people like you, feel religion forced on them in cases like this. Those that are religious, feel people like you and your views forced on them.
Not a real cut and dry situation in that regard.

I don't agree with this assessment. My opinion is this: People who want to have a gay marriage, should by law, be allowed to be married. If people's church don't want to allow them to be married, their church should not allow the marriage IN THAT CHURCH.

I'm not forcing my view upon anyone. Under my position, both parties can have their own way. Under the ban, only one side imposes their view on everyone.

[Javery]

To get back on topic, marriage is to be between a man and a woman. It is defined in Genesis, chapter two. Man didn't create marriage, God did. He defined it, and I don't believe we should change it.

I'm pretty sure that arguing with someone who honestly believes this is not going to resolve anything. I'm kind of jealous in a way because I waste a lot of time thinking about the world around me and how to react to it and where I fit in - it must be nice to have a strategy guide.

[thrustbucket]

I don't agree with this assessment. My opinion is this: People who want to have a gay marriage, should by law, be allowed to be married. If people's church don't want to allow them to be married, their church should not allow the marriage IN THAT CHURCH.

I'm not forcing my view upon anyone. Under my position, both parties can have their own way. Under the ban, only one side imposes their view on everyone.

And, as you've seen, the other sides argument is that marriage has historically factual origins in religion. It's a religious institution. You can't get around that. You can say the modern interpretation of it isn't, or whatever. But that's why marriage exists today - religion.

So getting upset that the religious have a beef with a religious institution that HAPPENS to be (wrongly) recognized by the state, is a bit ironic.

[lordwow]

In other words, by trying to allow anyone to marry, I'm oppressing their ability to oppress everyone else?

[GuilewasNK]

Exactly I always love this stance. Whenever I took philosophy a few years back we had religious questions that were brought up. There was 1 chick in the class who just absolutely even as an educational practice refused to question religion and pretty much insisted we would all burn in hell. You should have seen the look on her face when I turned to her and said "Ya, well what if your God is just being tested by a greater God". "For making people burn in hell for stuff as stupid as questioning him he will have failed his test as he said we failed ours". "Now me and my kind are in good with the real God for standing by justice and righteousness even when an evil God and his moronic followers tortured us"

Completely freaking shut her up for the rest of the semester. If there is a God and he is a Just God he would be happy we use the critical thinking skills he gave us.

That's the thing about religion (Abrahamic ones anyway), questioning it implies damnation. That is a great motivator and incentive for people not to do so. I'm not going to claim I know anything about our existence, but I'd have to believe it is more than what we have been taught in religion of any kind.

[stonefry]

Wow you really are an ignorant little asshat huh? Hey I will say this and leave it at this. You live by a book of lies, I live by a set of principles. So yes I have thought about it and you know, I would take damnation any day over being a little tool bowing to a corrupt figure. Let your God be real it will just prove everything I have ever said is right. And no I do not believe in things every day that I know nothing about. I educate myself reading constantly, I change my views on things or at least am willing to. And In my heart there are few things I 100% believe because their are few things that can be proven to me(for instance science shows that evolution is probably true but it cant be proven in the most concrete of manners so I dont just accept it as 100% fact). One of the only things I believe in is that a life of philosophy/questioning, education and principles beats a life of accepting the word of morons, lies and refusing to ever look at things objectively as Christians do.

Have a nice day!

You seem intelligent, but you resort to name-calling. You criticize me for something which you are guilty of (relying on others to teach me what I don't understand). Stop attacking me. You don't know anything about me except for a couple of paragraphs I wrote. The only reason I got into this conversation is because I was defending something that you were attacking. Don't you have anything nice to say?

Here's what you could have said:

"I vote no on prop 8 because I believe that homosexuals should have the right to marry."

Instead we hear:

"I vote no on prop 8 because I believe that homosexuals should have the right to marry and anybody that disagrees with me is an ignorant bible thumping asshat."

Listen, I am voting yes on prop 8, but I don't want to tell others to do likewise. It is my belief and I don't feel it should be forced on others. This is my dilemma because if it passes, we will be doing just that. I may just not vote on that one.

[mykevermin]

Listen, I am voting yes on prop 8, but I don't want to tell others to do likewise. It is my belief and I don't feel it should be forced on others. This is my dilemma because if it passes, we will be doing just that. I may just not vote on that one.

Wow. What amazing fence-sitting. You Episcopal?

;)

Really, if you don't want to force your beliefs on others, why did you vote to approve the codification of rendering homosexuals to second-class citizen status? Sounds to me like you should have voted no on issue 8, and then thought to yourself "well, there's a vote I'll never really get to use since I'm gonna go get me straight person married!"

[lordwow]

Listen, I am voting yes on prop 8, but I don't want to tell others to do likewise. It is my belief and I don't feel it should be forced on others. This is my dilemma because if it passes, we will be doing just that. I may just not vote on that one.

Eureka!

[nathansu]

To get back on topic, marriage is to be between a man and a woman. It is defined in Genesis, chapter two. Man didn't create marriage, God did. He defined it, and I don't believe we should change it. At the same time, it makes me really uncomfortable to see people using stupid scare tactics to force their beliefs on others. The whole thing about forcing our kids to learn about it in school and such. We know that's really bending the truth. I vote yes, and I hope others do too. I am not going to go out on the streets and try to convince others to do likewise though.

At the risk of being flamed severely, I'd like to make one point.

Your religion holds the following to be true (for most people, there are Christians I know who are not batshit crazy) :


There is a magical spirit in the sky (whom you can't see) who watches you all the time. At any point if it is upset with you, it will smite the shit out of you.
This spirit happens to be a male, and has rules for you to follow. If you don't follow these rules (which came from the same spirit you can't see, hear, or feel), you are doomed to burn in hell.
Hell has never once made contact with anyone outside of it's boundaries, and will continue to not communicate with the outside world.
However, if you follow the invisible spirit's rules, you will be let into a place that is fantastic and happens to be in the clouds.
There is a book where all of this is written down, which has been re-written, redacted, and changed for thousands of years. Clearly, every word of it is truthful and historically accurate.
Subject matter in said book can be picked and chosen from at your own discretion. For example, even though it is commanded in this book, it is not OK to stone women to death any longer. It is written that being gay is not all right, but this rule is not subject to reversal like the latter rule of stoning women to death.

Batshit crazy FTW.

[lilboo]

You seem intelligent, but you resort to name-calling. You criticize me for something which you are guilty of (relying on others to teach me what I don't understand). Stop attacking me. You don't know anything about me except for a couple of paragraphs I wrote. The only reason I got into this conversation is because I was defending something that you were attacking. Don't you have anything nice to say?

Here's what you could have said:

"I vote no on prop 8 because I believe that homosexuals should have the right to marry."

Instead we hear:

"I vote no on prop 8 because I believe that homosexuals should have the right to marry and anybody that disagrees with me is an ignorant bible thumping asshat."

Listen, I am voting yes on prop 8, but I don't want to tell others to do likewise. It is my belief and I don't feel it should be forced on others. This is my dilemma because if it passes, we will be doing just that. I may just not vote on that one.

So why should laws be made about what the church dictates? :-k
You DO realize that not everyone in this country is a Christian and believes in the Bible....right?

Do gays have the right to Civil Unions or should they just not allowed to be together and be given any type of legal rights at all?

[MSI Magus]

You seem intelligent, but you resort to name-calling. You criticize me for something which you are guilty of (relying on others to teach me what I don't understand). Stop attacking me. You don't know anything about me except for a couple of paragraphs I wrote. The only reason I got into this conversation is because I was defending something that you were attacking. Don't you have anything nice to say?

Here's what you could have said:

"I vote no on prop 8 because I believe that homosexuals should have the right to marry."

Instead we hear:

"I vote no on prop 8 because I believe that homosexuals should have the right to marry and anybody that disagrees with me is an ignorant bible thumping asshat."

Listen, I am voting yes on prop 8, but I don't want to tell others to do likewise. It is my belief and I don't feel it should be forced on others. This is my dilemma because if it passes, we will be doing just that. I may just not vote on that one.

I know all I need to know about you from your few paragraphs. As javeryh put it there is no changing someone that says something like a direct quote from the bible that claims they are in support for something because God(aka magical sky creature)told someone years ago to right it down as wrong.

Your an extremist not a rationalist and worse while you dont attack me you wish to pretend I am the same as you. I dont claim to know the answers, I am not bigoted towards others or trying to take their rights away and I get my information from many sources not 1 source(and a disproven one at that)like you. So stop trying to pretend we are the same cause kid me and you aint nothing alike.

And as for attacks. You deserve it. Besides the fact you are trying to take others rights away. Christians tend to be the most un Christ like people around which is rather enraging.

On topic. Something that made me happy this weekend was talking to my future mother in law on this subject. She has always been a Christian but ever since her church got a new very stonefory like pastor that preaches on fire and brimstone she has changed greatly as a person. But even with her turn to the right whenever the subject of prop 8 came up she said something along the lines of "can you believe anyone would be so disgusting and biggoted to try and take others rights away". "I dont understand gay people and I dont approve of their lifestyle, but it upsets me that people claiming my faith are misrepresenting me and my God with their biggoted views".

It makes her a cherry picker like all Christians.....but atleast she is following the good tenets of the bible not the hatefull disgusting ones.

[MSI Magus]

At the risk of being flamed severely, I'd like to make one point.

Your religion holds the following to be true (for most people, there are Christians I know who are not batshit crazy) :


There is a magical spirit in the sky (whom you can't see) who watches you all the time. At any point if it is upset with you, it will smite the shit out of you.
This spirit happens to be a male, and has rules for you to follow. If you don't follow these rules (which came from the same spirit you can't see, hear, or feel), you are doomed to burn in hell.
Hell has never once made contact with anyone outside of it's boundaries, and will continue to not communicate with the outside world.
However, if you follow the invisible spirit's rules, you will be let into a place that is fantastic and happens to be in the clouds.
There is a book where all of this is written down, which has been re-written, redacted, and changed for thousands of years. Clearly, every word of it is truthful and historically accurate.
Subject matter in said book can be picked and chosen from at your own discretion. For example, even though it is commanded in this book, it is not OK to stone women to death any longer. It is written that being gay is not all right, but this rule is not subject to reversal like the latter rule of stoning women to death.

Batshit crazy FTW.

Heh like I have said. It is impossible to be a Christian and not be a cherry picker.

[thrustbucket]

In other words, by trying to allow anyone to marry, I'm oppressing their ability to oppress everyone else?

Basically, yes.

But with that exact same logic I can say that Harvard is oppressing me by not giving me a degree without meeting their criteria.

I'm not saying you should change our mind about gay marriage. The only argument I am trying to make is that I think the religious side of this particular argument actually carries some real weight, for once.

And even if you believe marriage should be CHANGED (which is what this is really about) to be a state originated and defined institution put up for legislative definition, you at least owe the other side the respectful acknowledgment that what you are desiring to do is CHANGE the original religiously based definition and purpose of marriage to something more in line with what you believe.

That's really it.

I actually think the arguments for both sides are very legitimate. Which is why I cringe when either side starts bashing and attacking the other. I truly feel both sides of this argument, are, in a way, right. So I guess I feel it's important that each side sort of respectflly disagree.

[lordwow]

I disagree with your analogy, thrustbucket. It would be more like Harvard will not allow you to earn a degree at their institution, so they voted to ban you from getting a degree at any institution.

[Friend of Sonic]

I disagree with your analogy, thrustbucket. It would be more like Harvard will not allow you to earn a degree at their institution, so they voted to ban you from getting a degree at any institution.
Bingo.

[lilboo]

I disagree with your analogy, thrustbucket. It would be more like Harvard will not allow you to earn a degree at their institution, so they voted to ban you from getting a degree at any institution.

THIS.

It's be ONE thing if my local church said "LOL NO MARRIAGE, SRY" but the OTHER one around here is like "YEAH SURE, ::offers marriage::"

It'd be the same thing for you to TRY and get a degree at Harvard and them saying "LOL NO U POOR LOL" but Yale goin "YEH SURE COME GETZ DEGREE HERE LOLLMAO ::offers::"

[mykevermin]

Please don't ever let the real world talk that way.

[lilboo]

That's what my church said :(

[nathansu]

I disagree with your analogy, thrustbucket. It would be more like Harvard will not allow you to earn a degree at their institution, so they voted to ban you from getting a degree at any institution.

Win.

[The Crotch]

And, as you've seen, the other sides argument is that marriage has historically factual origins in religion. It's a religious institution. You can't get around that. You can say the modern interpretation of it isn't, or whatever. But that's why marriage exists today - religion.
If I'm not mistaken, marriage in ancient Mesopotamia was more of a legal contract than an actual religious thing. Now, granted, it was still man-woman, but hey, women were legally required to kill themselves if accused of adultery, so hey, whatever.

EDIT: Also, Lordwow, after having taken into account your unusually high amounts of win lately, my colleagues and I would like to present you with The Internet. Treat it well.

[lordwow]

Why thank you The Crotch.

[thrustbucket]

I disagree with your analogy, thrustbucket. It would be more like Harvard will not allow you to earn a degree at their institution, so they voted to ban you from getting a degree at any institution.

Wrong.

The point of the analogy is this - Harvard, like religion, is a private institution that has always dictated the criteria for handing out a degree (like religion has with marriage, when they invented it). They are allowed to do this, because they are a private organization outside of the dictates of government when it comes to who gets a degree.

So to make the analogy more valid: The government wants to tell Harvard, and all institutions, that they have to give out degrees to anyone if they ask nicely. Fuck their criteria and fuck the fact that universities invented degrees. Everyone is entitled to a free degree now, because of job discrimination. Why should the University get to decide who gets one and who gets to try and earn one? That's fucking discrimination.

Hint: The REAL answer to all of the above - government recognition is bad, across the board. Having it creates situations like this that wouldn't be a situation if government were not involved.

[lordwow]

Your analogy is still flawed. The government is not saying that any church has to marry anyone. They're saying any church that wants to marry two people of the same gender should be allowed to.

In other words (in your analogy), just because Harvard doesn't want to give someone a degree doesn't mean that every other college should be banned from doing so. Harvard doesn't have to give anyone a degree it doesn't want to, nor does any church. But neither should be allowed to use their criteria for acceptance upon the rest of the population.

A more apt analogy would be Harvard doesn't want to accept you, and they think that every other college should be legally mandated to use their admissions standards.

[stonefry]

I know all I need to know about you from your few paragraphs. As javeryh put it there is no changing someone that says something like a direct quote from the bible that claims they are in support for something because God(aka magical sky creature)told someone years ago to right it down as wrong.

Your an extremist not a rationalist and worse while you dont attack me you wish to pretend I am the same as you. I dont claim to know the answers, I am not bigoted towards others or trying to take their rights away and I get my information from many sources not 1 source(and a disproven one at that)like you. So stop trying to pretend we are the same cause kid me and you aint nothing alike.

And as for attacks. You deserve it. Besides the fact you are trying to take others rights away. Christians tend to be the most un Christ like people around which is rather enraging.

On topic. Something that made me happy this weekend was talking to my future mother in law on this subject. She has always been a Christian but ever since her church got a new very stonefory like pastor that preaches on fire and brimstone she has changed greatly as a person. But even with her turn to the right whenever the subject of prop 8 came up she said something along the lines of "can you believe anyone would be so disgusting and biggoted to try and take others rights away". "I dont understand gay people and I dont approve of their lifestyle, but it upsets me that people claiming my faith are misrepresenting me and my God with their biggoted views".

It makes her a cherry picker like all Christians.....but atleast she is following the good tenets of the bible not the hatefull disgusting ones.

You cherry picked my arguments.

[thrustbucket]

Your analogy is still flawed. The government is not saying that any church has to marry anyone. They're saying any church that wants to marry two people of the same gender should be allowed to.

In other words (in your analogy), just because Harvard doesn't want to give someone a degree doesn't mean that every other college should be banned from doing so. Harvard doesn't have to give anyone a degree it doesn't want to, nor does any church. But neither should be allowed to use their criteria for acceptance upon the rest of the population. H

Homosexuals can already go preform marriage ceremonies at any number of religions and say they are married. That's not the issue though. It's that everyone is fighting over what the government should recognize. When the real answer is "they shouldn't".

[lordwow]

The real issue is that the government is allowing one group of people to do one thing (marry) and not allowing another group to do same thing. Any rational person could see this should and eventually will be found to be a violation of "separate, but equal" It won't be this year, it may not be this decade, but it will happen.

[thrustbucket]

And I disagree that is the real issue.

The real issue is that marriage is a religious institution that managed to slip through this nations bloated, gargantuan, robust secular filter and is, at its core, an issue of separation of church and state.

It's just an issue long over looked and not cared about. Until now; because those that inherited marriage (the religious) and inserted it into our government, never had it's definition questioned until now.

You could be right though. Perhaps some day gay marriage will be nationally recognized. But that still won't change the fact that legally recognized marriage is a mixture of church and state, thus will not solve the problem for future issues (i.e. Polygamy, etc).

[depascal22]

Wouldn't this amendment be unconstitutional? Would it be a law that would tell churches or people to practice their faith in a certain way? I understand that Christians really want this amendment to pass but what would stop someone from making a Proposition that says that churches have to pay taxes? Doesn't this whole thing open a can of worms that no one really wants to see.

[MSI Magus]

You cherry picked my arguments.

Nah I covered every point. Wouldn't expect a Christian to understand this though since when it comes to religion you guys couldn't debate to save your soul.

And I would ignore thrust guys.....doesn't matter if everyone sees problems with it and its clearly flawed he will stick by a bad theory(see his arguing with global warming based on far right crazies)no matter what.

[stonefry]

Nah I covered every point. Wouldn't expect a Christian to understand this though since when it comes to religion you guys couldn't debate to save your soul..

I made a statement and you said "nuh uh."

And you don't think I can debate?

[GamerChris]

Does anyone else see the Yes on 8 banner ads ALL over CAG right now? I'm surprised Cheapy D would let these ads run on his site. I'm actually quite disappointed in CAG right now knowing that Cheapy D has many gay friends, yet he's supporting this measure that overturns their rights in california.

[depascal22]

All I have is GayCupid.com at the top of my page.

[lilboo]

http://www.gardenstateequality.org/

It knows I'm in NJ :(

[depascal22]

I still want to know how this passes the Constitutional Test. Conservatives are all about the letter of the law when it comes to the Constitution but doesn't this just turn Christian dogma into law?

[lilboo]

This whole thing is stupid and Christians just use "facts" and Bible crap to make "POINTS".
I said this several times, it's just a bunch of hate, misunderstanding, and fear that's causing oppression & bigotry.

This. Is. All. It. Is.

[nathansu]

Does anyone else see the Yes on 8 banner ads ALL over CAG right now? I'm surprised Cheapy D would let these ads run on his site. I'm actually quite disappointed in CAG right now knowing that Cheapy D has many gay friends, yet he's supporting this measure that overturns their rights in california.

I started a thread about this. The crazies are calling me oversensitive about it, but I find it terribly offensive.

[depascal22]

I want to match your offensiveness and raise a liberal bias.

[mykevermin]

This whole thing is stupid and Christians just use "facts" and Bible crap to make "POINTS".
I said this several times, it's just a bunch of hate, misunderstanding, and fear that's causing oppression & bigotry.

This. Is. All. It. Is.

Can we legalize wife killin'?

It's in the bible.

[GuilewasNK]

Does anyone else see the Yes on 8 banner ads ALL over CAG right now? I'm surprised Cheapy D would let these ads run on his site. I'm actually quite disappointed in CAG right now knowing that Cheapy D has many gay friends, yet he's supporting this measure that overturns their rights in california.

I started a thread about this. The crazies are calling me oversensitive about it, but I find it terribly offensive.


Did you see how long it took for the "ninja" graphic to come down on this site? Granted, that isn't as important as the vote on 8, but I'm not surprised at anything.

[xycury]

I started a thread about this. The crazies are calling me oversensitive about it, but I find it terribly offensive.

Just notify Cheapy and they will be removed, it's not like he sat down, looked at a checklist and said, hell ya, get those prop 8 ads on and make me monies!

I'm all against that kind crap advertising, lies and such, but I really don't like it when nothing is getting done to ever change it.


I guess what I don't get is why is this on the ballot again? I thought the courts overturned it.

[Dead of Knight]

I guess what I don't get is why is this on the ballot again? I thought the courts overturned it.

Asshole bigots started a petition and got enough signatures to put it on the ballot.

[Bee52]

Asshole bigots started a petition and got enough signatures to put it on the ballot.

Fuck you. I love how just because someone doesn't approve of homosexuality, they're automatically an "asshole bigot". Maybe if homosexuals allowed society to come to terms with their lifestyle choice at their own pace, rather then forcefully shoving it down everyones throats, people would be more tolerant of it. If people who disagree with homosexuality are "asshole bigots", then what the hell does that make religion bashers? People across the country have gone to the polls and unanimously voted down same sex marriage in nearly every case. People don't want to destroy the sanctity of marriage. Sorry if you feel slighted in any way. Too bad.

[The Crotch]

Ooh, boy. Set your phasers to "rant", people - we got a live one!

[mykevermin]

Fuck you. I love how just because someone doesn't approve of homosexuality, they're automatically an "asshole bigot".

What does it make you, then, if not a bigot?

[squid]

How were homosexual people 'forcefully shoving it down everyones throats'? By existing? By by getting married?
You can disagree with something, but taking it away from them because you disagree crosses the line into bigotry.

[xycury]

Asshole bigots started a petition and got enough signatures to put it on the ballot.

ah that's a bummer... hopefully the courts will come back again.

and can't help but laugh at Bee52... I may have to ask what did they do to you to hate so much.

[Bee52]

What does it make you, then, if not a bigot?

I'm not intolerant of your right to be gay, you go right ahead and do whatever it is you want to do, it's none of my business. Just don't make it my business or the business of anyone else that doesn't want to know about it, and everyone is fine.

[Bee52]

ah that's a bummer... hopefully the courts will come back again.

and can't help but laugh at Bee52... I may have to ask what did they do to you to hate so much.

Yes, because the courts are allowed to make laws, that's how our government works :roll:

[The Crotch]

I'm not intolerant of your right to be gay, you go right ahead and do whatever it is you want to do, it's none of my business. Just don't make it my business or the business of anyone else that doesn't want to know about it, and everyone is fine.
I don't want to know you exist. Stop infringing on my rights.

EDIT: And while you're at it, could you please tell the new Old Republic MMORPG to stop infringing on my rights?

[Bee52]

I don't want to know you exist. Stop infringing on my rights.

EDIT: And while you're at it, could you please tell the new Old Republic MMORPG to stop infringing on my rights?

Why don't you stop infringing on MY rights.

[mykevermin]

I'm not intolerant of your right to be gay, you go right ahead and do whatever it is you want to do, it's none of my business. Just don't make it my business or the business of anyone else that doesn't want to know about it, and everyone is fine.

The word is heteronormativity. And it's a form of bigotry.


toots.

Why don't you stop infringing on MY rights.

Your infringing on Crotch's rights while Crotch is infringing on your rights; both of which are infringing on my rights. I'd rather not know you existed, thankyouverymuch.

Or did I just blow your mind!?!?!

[MSI Magus]

I'm not intolerant of your right to be gay, you go right ahead and do whatever it is you want to do, it's none of my business. Just don't make it my business or the business of anyone else that doesn't want to know about it, and everyone is fine.

Tell you what. You start practicing religion in doors and ill support gays having to practice butt sex in doors......wait that didnt come out right.

Anyways, your posts are a joke. You infringe on others rights.....yet claiming you only do so because it infringes on your rights. Again way to prove the stupidity of religious people.

Edit - PS I have no problem with you not being comfortable with homosexuality or gay people. I personally am uncomfortable with gay guys and butch lesbians(girl lesbians are hot!)however I am smart enough to recognize they have the same rights we do. What you are talking about is completly different then prop 8. You are not supporting the right for you to feel uncomfortable....you are supporting taking others rights away which makes you a biggoted asshole.

[The Crotch]

Your infringing on Crotch's rights while Crotch is infringing on your rights; both of which are infringing on my rights. I'd rather not know you existed, thankyouverymuch.

Or did I just blow your mind!?!?!
I don't know.

But after reading that.

I'm pretty sure.

We're married now.

[Dead of Knight]

Fuck you. I love how just because someone doesn't approve of homosexuality, they're automatically an "asshole bigot". Maybe if homosexuals allowed society to come to terms with their lifestyle choice at their own pace, rather then forcefully shoving it down everyones throats, people would be more tolerant of it. If people who disagree with homosexuality are "asshole bigots", then what the hell does that make religion bashers? People across the country have gone to the polls and unanimously voted down same sex marriage in nearly every case. People don't want to destroy the sanctity of marriage. Sorry if you feel slighted in any way. Too bad.

http://www.gamesprays.com/images/icons/cry_some_more_icon387_sm.jpg

[CaseyRyback]

Fuck you. I love how just because someone doesn't approve of homosexuality, they're automatically an "asshole bigot". Maybe if homosexuals allowed society to come to terms with their lifestyle choice at their own pace, rather then forcefully shoving it down everyones throats, people would be more tolerant of it. If people who disagree with homosexuality are "asshole bigots", then what the hell does that make religion bashers? People across the country have gone to the polls and unanimously voted down same sex marriage in nearly every case. People don't want to destroy the sanctity of marriage. Sorry if you feel slighted in any way. Too bad.

Black people tried that, it didn't work.

[JJSP]

Tolerance does not include closing your eyes.

I saw a sign today that pretty much summed it up.

"It's black and white. Yes = separate. No = equal. One of these is already outlawed. Choose wisely."

[Bee52]

Black people tried that, it didn't work.

I love how you try and compare gay marriage to civil rights. That'll go over huge with the 12.4% of Americans that are black. Where did anyone ever get the idea that marriage is a right? It's not!

[JJSP]

Also, marriage stopped being sacred when it became a television show.

[xycury]

Yes, because the courts are allowed to make laws, that's how our government works :roll:

... not where I was going, but glad you think that way...:roll:

I meant to stop it from continuing. Didn't the courts rule it unconstitional? If i'm wrong please please inform me... I might be thinking of something else.

I think if it involves government, any and all religious activities should be fair and equal, and it's equal right to almost everything else, including age/sex/skin color... why not the licensing of marriage.

It's a government document... which should be seperated from religion... the whole seperate church and state thing our constituion was built on.

[GuilewasNK]

I love how you try and compare gay marriage to civil rights. That'll go over huge with the 12.4% of Americans that are black. Where did anyone ever get the idea that marriage is a right? It's not!


I'm black and while everything blacks went through isn't the same as gay people (you can't be a closet black), the general idea is the same.

Mildred Loving was black.... and this is what she had to say....

Surrounded as I am now by wonderful children and grandchildren, not a day goes by that I don't think of Richard and our love, our right to marry, and how much it meant to me to have that freedom to marry the person precious to me, even if others thought he was the "wrong kind of person" for me to marry. I believe all Americans, no matter their race, no matter their sex, no matter their sexual orientation, should have that same freedom to marry. Government has no business imposing some people's religious beliefs over others. Especially if it denies people's civil rights.
I am still not a political person, but I am proud that Richard's and my name is on a court case that can help reinforce the love, the commitment, the fairness, and the family that so many people, black or white, young or old, gay or straight seek in life. I support the freedom to marry for all. That's what Loving, and loving, are all about.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_v._Virginia

[Ugamer_X]

Fuck you. I love how just because someone doesn't approve of homosexuality, they're automatically an "asshole bigot". Maybe if homosexuals allowed society to come to terms with their lifestyle choice at their own pace, rather then forcefully shoving it down everyones throats, people would be more tolerant of it. If people who disagree with homosexuality are "asshole bigots", then what the hell does that make religion bashers? People across the country have gone to the polls and unanimously voted down same sex marriage in nearly every case. People don't want to destroy the sanctity of marriage. Sorry if you feel slighted in any way. Too bad.
No no no, you misunderstood.

You're an "asshole bigot" because you think you deserve to have rights over another human being because you're straight and they aren't.

[SpazX]

Where did anyone ever get the idea that marriage is a right? It's not!

That's right, it's one of those privileges you earn by being straight. It takes a lot of hard work. Freeloading fucking gay people don't want to work to earn it.

[mykevermin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q28UwAyzUkE

[The Crotch]

Mormons are, um... serious business, apparently. I should have been ruder to the two that wandered into my apartment a couple days ago.

Well, I'm sure I'll have another chance at that.

[lilboo]

If this bullshit passes, I say ALL the gay men and all the gay women get together..

and marry each other.. ;)

Man, we'll show ya'll how to ruin the "sanctity" of marriage..:whee:
Imma have like 13 ex-wives by the time I'm 37

[doctorfaustus]

If this bullshit passes, I say ALL the gay men and all the gay women get together..

and marry each other.. ;)

Man, we'll show ya'll how to ruin the "sanctity" of marriage..:whee:
Imma have like 13 ex-wives by the time I'm 37

If prop. 8 passes, I give up on California. It should be a no-brainer- equal rights for all.

[MSI Magus]

If this bullshit passes, I say ALL the gay men and all the gay women get together..

and marry each other.. ;)

Man, we'll show ya'll how to ruin the "sanctity" of marriage..:whee:
Imma have like 13 ex-wives by the time I'm 37

That actually would be really funny. Crash the system and ruin the sanctity of marriage by having as many of them as possible. You saying that also brings to mind a funny problem with Christians being for this issue. I doubt in the bible it lets people get divorced so easily.....id say divorce is a bigger issue to the sanctity of marriage.

[lilboo]

That actually would be really funny. Crash the system and ruin the sanctity of marriage by having as many of them as possible. You saying that also brings to mind a funny problem with Christians being for this issue. I doubt in the bible it lets people get divorced so easily.....id say divorce is a bigger issue to the sanctity of marriage.

I've been saying we should ban divorce if we REALLY want to protect the "SANCTITY" of marriage. ESPECIALLY if Prop 8 passes, than passing a "BAN DIVORCE" should happen. Of course, I'm sure people would say we would be infringing on their civil rights, ;)

[mykevermin]

I've been saying we should ban divorce if we REALLY want to protect the "SANCTITY" of marriage. ESPECIALLY if Prop 8 passes, than passing a "BAN DIVORCE" should happen. Of course, I'm sure people would say we would be infringing on their civil rights, ;)

I'm totally down with banning divorce. Make it retroactive, too, so people remain legally married to their earliest spouse who isn't deceased. Ha. There's your fucking sanctity.

[Strell]

I've been saying we should ban divorce if we REALLY want to protect the "SANCTITY" of marriage.

Intersting thing about this.

Everyone knows marriage started out sans-religious overtone, aye? And that back in the old days, it was literally a business transaction?

Priests just "decided" one day that they didn't have enough to do, and wanted to preside over such things, which lead to the ceremony and pomp and circumstance.

So, really, there was no sanctity to begin with - it just sort of showed up one day.

This book (http://www.amazon.com/History-Wife-Marilyn-Yalom/dp/0060193387) gots all da infoz.

Let's make it funnier - there's even evidence of this in the bible. Check out you some Genesis 29 and the story of Jacob. Dood wanted Rachel, was told to work for seven years by Rachel's father (Laban). Does it, but the father tricks him and he ends up marrying Leah. So Jacob goes back and says wtf old man. And Laban tells him to work another seven. And he does and gets Rachel.

Whoa! Bigamy!

[MaxBiaggi3]

I love how you try and compare gay marriage to civil rights. That'll go over huge with the 12.4% of Americans that are black.

I understand that roughly 10% of any given population is gay, so the percentages are pretty close. Then again, being gay is a "choice," right? Why don't you just tell 10% of the population to change their lifestyle "choice" if it bothers you so much?

[mykevermin]

Intersting thing about this.

Everyone knows marriage started out sans-religious overtone, aye? And that back in the old days, it was literally a business transaction?

Priests just "decided" one day that they didn't have enough to do, and wanted to preside over such things, which lead to the ceremony and pomp and circumstance.

So, really, there was no sanctity to begin with - it just sort of showed up one day.

This book (http://www.amazon.com/History-Wife-Marilyn-Yalom/dp/0060193387) gots all da infoz.

Let's make it funnier - there's even evidence of this in the bible. Check out you some Genesis 29 and the story of Jacob. Dood wanted Rachel, was told to work for seven years by Rachel's father (Laban). Does it, but the father tricks him and he ends up marrying Leah. So Jacob goes back and says wtf old man. And Laban tells him to work another seven. And he does and gets Rachel.

Whoa! Bigamy!

This is also a good 'un, that demonstrates that American society has never been like a late-night marathon of "TV Land" sitcoms. (http://www.amazon.com/Way-We-Never-Were-Nostalgia/dp/0465090974/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1225813293&sr=1-1)

[botticus]

That actually would be really funny. Crash the system and ruin the sanctity of marriage by having as many of them as possible. You saying that also brings to mind a funny problem with Christians being for this issue. I doubt in the bible it lets people get divorced so easily.....id say divorce is a bigger issue to the sanctity of marriage.
Divorce isn't generally acceptable in Christianity, not sure what you're going for there. My wife's aunt was not able to marry her second husband in the church since she divorced her first one.

But I know, all Christians suck even if they don't object to gay marriage.

[mykevermin]

^ annulment. The Religious Economy cometh.

[botticus]

^ annulment. The Religious Economy cometh.
Annulment in the church generally requires certain conditions to be met, none of which applied in her case.

[RAMSTORIA]

i ended up not voting on props 4 and 8. just decided i didnt like either of them, so didnt vote.

[MSI Magus]

Divorce isn't generally acceptable in Christianity, not sure what you're going for there. My wife's aunt was not able to marry her second husband in the church since she divorced her first one.

But I know, all Christians suck even if they don't object to gay marriage.

That was my point. That it is not supposed to be acceptable to Christians to get divorced but yet many do. I wouldnt be suprised if you polled prop 8 supporters if you found out that like 30% of them had gotten a divorce at some point.

[botticus]

I agree that many people, including Christians, do things that they aren't supposed to, and are also hypocrites.

[mykevermin]

Annulment in the church generally requires certain conditions to be met, none of which applied in her case.

conditions = moneyhats.

[botticus]

conditions = moneyhats.
"generally"

[Hex]

Intersting thing about this.

Everyone knows marriage started out sans-religious overtone, aye? And that back in the old days, it was literally a business transaction?

Priests just "decided" one day that they didn't have enough to do, and wanted to preside over such things, which lead to the ceremony and pomp and circumstance.

So, really, there was no sanctity to begin with - it just sort of showed up one day.

This book (http://www.amazon.com/History-Wife-Marilyn-Yalom/dp/0060193387) gots all da infoz.

Let's make it funnier - there's even evidence of this in the bible. Check out you some Genesis 29 and the story of Jacob. Dood wanted Rachel, was told to work for seven years by Rachel's father (Laban). Does it, but the father tricks him and he ends up marrying Leah. So Jacob goes back and says wtf old man. And Laban tells him to work another seven. And he does and gets Rachel.

Whoa! Bigamy!

I brought this up to a hardcore christian friend (well, now ex-friend). He switched gears and said that since America was founded as a Christian nation (false) by christians (false), and that the bible said that gay marriage is wrong, then it should continue to be.

I facepalmed.

[homeland]

Annulment in the church generally requires certain conditions to be met, none of which applied in her case.

Like being a Kennedy.. Remember a few years back.. They had kids and still got an annulment.. Forget which Kennedy it was though.

[DarkNessBear]

Going to go vote.

Over here, people are insane on voting yes for Prop 8. At 2am me and my friend went to where this huge sign was and there was someone sitting in their car guarding it; and than went to another place across town where another huge sign and around 30 small signs were and another guy was sitting in his car protecting them. And theres around a thousand other signs around the city... it's insane. So sad that these religious freaks are desperate for nothing.

No on 8.

[HumanSnatcher]

I swear, to all you that voted yes, know that there is one person here that will personally put your head on a pike if I ever meet you

[Strell]

I swear, to all you that voted yes, know that there is one person here that will personally put your head on a pike if I ever meet you

Is that what they are calling it these days?

/hopes HumanSnatcher still thinks I'm cool and thus knows I'm joking

[HumanSnatcher]

I know you're joking lol

[nintendokid]

I brought this up to a hardcore christian friend (well, now ex-friend). He switched gears and said that since America was founded as a Christian nation (false) by christians (false), and that the bible said that gay marriage is wrong, then it should continue to be.

I facepalmed.

What's wrong with him believing and living by his own life truth? Better than how most other people choose to live nowadays. Some people believe they have it all figured out. Just because it's 21st Century and we have the false sense of living in a secular age, we throw away ancient old traditions and values and religion goes out the window in the name of simplicity. There are some who claim that we will one day be able to rationalize and make sense of the world we live in. HA! What nerves! Our 365 day, 12 month calendar was created by ancient Egyptians thousands of years ago. Why don't we throw that away while we are in the "throwing away" mood.

[RAMSTORIA]

i think this has a good change at going through. the last week or so at every major intersection there have been people out with signs waving and lots of honking. signs all over the place. the only place i ever hear no on is on tv, never from people on the streets. (friends aside). lets not forget a similar ballot passed 10 years ago.

[MSI Magus]

What's wrong with him believing and living by his own life truth? Better than how most other people choose to live nowadays. Some people believe they have it all figured out. Just because it's 21st Century and we have the false sense of living in a secular age, we throw away ancient old traditions and values and religion goes out the window in the name of simplicity. There are some who claim that we will one day be able to rationalize and make sense of the world we live in. HA! What nerves! Our 365 day, 12 month calendar was created by ancient Egyptians thousands of years ago. Why don't we throw that away while we are in the "throwing away" mood.

Ok but the calender actually has a logical reason for existing. If we find a better way of doing things then I say sure toss the freaking calender out. Religion on the other hand we dont have modern uses for, it just gets us in trouble.

[mykevermin]

The thought of homos having power of attorney over their partners who they've been monogamously faithful to for 50 years makes me sick to my stomach.

*shudder*

[lilboo]

When the results of this come in? :(
I'm really anxious about this. I really hope there's more sane, than insane people out there :(

[mykevermin]

When the results of this come in?

Dude. CALIFORNIA. PACIFIC STANDARD TIME.

Take a nap; polls ain't closing there for 3 or more hours.

[Layziebones]

Just got back.

+1 for NO!

[lilboo]

Just got back.

+1 for NO!

Thank you, <3
You're a good person <3

[Matt Young]

If this bullshit passes, I say ALL the gay men and all the gay women get together..

and marry each other.. ;)

Man, we'll show ya'll how to ruin the "sanctity" of marriage..:whee:
Imma have like 13 ex-wives by the time I'm 37

If it does not pass, and I voted no, you and your man can come and get married in my backyard. I was ordained over the internet by some church years ago. Penis shaped cake for all!

[JJSP]

I voted this morning first thing (no on 4 & 8). I'm hoping that many others across the state did the same, but I'm slightly pessimistic as there are a lot of conservatives spread across California that seem dead-set on passing this.

[lilboo]

If it does not pass, and I voted no, you and your man can come and get married in my backyard. I was ordained over the internet by some church years ago. Penis shaped cake for all!

Quoting for later use.
(such as showing up in your backyard in a gown!)

[Dead of Knight]

I kind of wish I lived in CA so I could vote NO on this trash.

[nathansu]

No from both myself, my wife, my parents, and my grandparents on 8. We did our part :).

[lilboo]

I kind of wish I lived in CA so I could vote NO on this trash.

No from both myself, my wife, my parents, and my grandparents on 8. We did our part :).

:grouphug:

[Dead of Knight]

:grouphug: You know I love you man. ;)

[Purple Flames]

I live on the other side of the country, but I'm all for voting NO on Prop 8.