Proposition 8 same sex marriage ban poll

[Strell]

I'd really like to think California would be extremely liberal as a whole, but regardless - if I could vote it down, I would.

[HumanSnatcher]

Quoting for later use.
(such as showing up in your backyard in a gown!)

You, in a gown...*cringe* lol. Me and my man have all ready decided that when we take the plunge, we're wearing kilts in the tartans of our ancestral Scottish clans.

And I'm sure that lilboo will "personally" thank you and other CAGs here that voted no lol

I thank you, but not in the way that lilboo would lol

[Synergy]

I couldn't disappoint lilboo by getting married in anything other than a Xena outfit. :D

Come on, California, show Massachusetts you're almost as awesome.

[HumanSnatcher]

I couldn't disappoint lilboo by getting married in anything other than a Xena outfit. :D

Come on, California, show Massachusetts you're almost as awesome.

Begs the question would your fiance or lilboo be dressed as Gabrielle? lol

[lilboo]

=;
I'd be dressed as She-Ra [-(

[Synergy]

Begs the question would your fiance or lilboo be dressed as Gabrielle? lol

There's only one Gabrielle....and it ain't lilboo. :lol:

I had a She-Ra costume/nightgown thing when I was a little girl. It was beyond awesome.

[HumanSnatcher]

=;
I'd be dressed as She-Ra [-(

Damn, had you pegged for Wonder Woman then...

[JJSP]

Quoting for later use.
(such as showing up in your backyard in a gown!)
If Matt does the ceremony, I'll gladly stamp the CA seal of approval on the marriage license.

[HumanSnatcher]

I would hope that would extend to me and my partner as well lol

[JJSP]

I would hope that would extend to me and my partner as well lol
Of course.

[HumanSnatcher]

Though hes stated something about having it in MA and spending our honeymoon in a quaint little B&B in VT lol. Either way, by the time we decide to do so, we might have more states to chose from

[DarkNessBear]

Voted NO on 8 this morning.

And I have 60 Yes on 8 signs, with the words "Owned" and a dress on the guy ready to be dumped on all the churches if No wins.

[Synergy]

Though hes stated something about having it in MA and spending our honeymoon in a quaint little B&B in VT lol. Either way, by the time we decide to do so, we might have more states to chose from

I have to say, honestly, the thought of marriage makes me shudder. Partly because I'm too young, and partly because...I don't know. I like the idea of a big party, but not the whole pressure of being locked down with one person forever. I'm jaded by seeing so many marriages fail and I naturally rebel against the natural nuclear order of things.

But it's cute to see you boys get all squishy about it.

[HumanSnatcher]

Voted NO on 8 this morning.

And I have 60 Yes on 8 signs, with the words "Owned" and a dress on the guy ready to be dumped on all the churches if No wins.

Awesome! Just be careful though, some states have laws about keeping up yard signs after an election.

Though with that level of awesomeness sounds like you have a "personal" stake in it getting shot down lol

[HumanSnatcher]

I have to say, honestly, the thought of marriage makes me shudder. Partly because I'm too young, and partly because...I don't know. I like the idea of a big party, but not the whole pressure of being locked down with one person forever. I'm jaded by seeing so many marriages fail and I naturally rebel against the natural nuclear order of things.

But it's cute to see you boys get all squishy about it.

The only thing traditional about me is that I just want that one person. I've all ready heard the crap about being 25 and that I should be out "sowing my oats". And I know that my partner, who is 48, has been in open relationships in the past, though not his liking to begin with, wants to settle down

[The Crotch]

Darknessbear, pictures of such a thing would instantly boost my respect for you by 93.2 points. Just make sure you get the right churches.

[zewone]

Voted no.

I didn't even know how this is up for debate.

[nintendokid]

Religion on the other hand we dont have modern uses for, it just gets us in trouble.

And that train of thought, my friend, is why we (Americans) are spiraling downward. People (like you) insist that we no longer need religion. But when someone gets fired from a job for no reason other than for the company to save money, we say that it's wrong. When good people get robbed, raped, and killed we say that it's wrong.

Religion provides us with sensible sets of values on how and why you should do certain things. If I suddenly lost my job, without religion to guide me I have no boundaries. I would not think twice about stealing from children. I would not care if I have to rob the elderly to get some chump change.

According to your view, MSI Magus, I am simply doing "what is" without regard to what is right and wrong. I am hungry, I need food, therefore, I steal food. And why not? As long as I don't get caught by the police because really, that's all I have to watch out for.

Say and think what you want but when anything bad happens, whether it is disasters, war-torn areas, or poverty, America is always there to help (wish I could say the same for other countries). And I truly believe that it is because our country is founded on Christian values and this just makes us want to help people.

[HumanSnatcher]

For the LAST TIME...the country was not founded on Xitian values. Maybe you should look up what some of the forefathers said about religion and goverment....

[Synergy]

Religion provides us with sensible sets of values on how and why you should do certain things. If I suddenly lost my job, without religion to guide me I have no boundaries. I would not think twice about stealing from children. I would not care if I have to rob the elderly to get some chump change.

If you need religion to tell you that stealing from children or the elderly is wrong, you have larger "guidance" problems. Funny how if I lost my job, the thought of robbing those weaker than me would never even cross my mind, and I'm certainly not religious. They're called morals and values.

[HumanSnatcher]

If you need religion to tell you that stealing from children or the elderly is wrong, you have larger "guidance" problems. Funny how if I lost my job, the thought of robbing those weaker than me would never even cross my mind, and I'm certainly not religious. They're called morals and values.

Don't give the kid ammo for "morals and values" arguments that they "come from the bible". Its more like human DECENCY than anything.

[mykevermin]

And that train of thought, my friend, is why we (Americans) are spiraling downward. People (like you) insist that we no longer need religion. But when someone gets fired from a job for no reason other than for the company to save money, we say that it's wrong. When good people get robbed, raped, and killed we say that it's wrong.

Religion provides us with sensible sets of values on how and why you should do certain things. If I suddenly lost my job, without religion to guide me I have no boundaries. I would not think twice about stealing from children. I would not care if I have to rob the elderly to get some chump change.

According to your view, MSI Magus, I am simply doing "what is" without regard to what is right and wrong. I am hungry, I need food, therefore, I steal food. And why not? As long as I don't get caught by the police because really, that's all I have to watch out for.

Say and think what you want but when anything bad happens, whether it is disasters, war-torn areas, or poverty, America is always there to help (wish I could say the same for other countries). And I truly believe that it is because our country is founded on Christian values and this just makes us want to help people.

...which is why all Atheists are burglars and murderers?

[The Crotch]

And that train of thought, my friend, is why we (Americans) are spiraling downward. People (like you) insist that we no longer need religion. But when someone gets fired from a job for no reason other than for the company to save money, we say that it's wrong. When good people get robbed, raped, and killed we say that it's wrong.

Religion provides us with sensible sets of values on how and why you should do certain things. If I suddenly lost my job, without religion to guide me I have no boundaries. I would not think twice about stealing from children. I would not care if I have to rob the elderly to get some chump change.

According to your view, MSI Magus, I am simply doing "what is" without regard to what is right and wrong. I am hungry, I need food, therefore, I steal food. And why not? As long as I don't get caught by the police because really, that's all I have to watch out for.

Say and think what you want but when anything bad happens, whether it is disasters, war-torn areas, or poverty, America is always there to help (wish I could say the same for other countries). And I truly believe that it is because our country is founded on Christian values and this just makes us want to help people.
If all that's keeping you from robbing, raping, and killing is your religion, then I think the rest of us - that is, anyone who's capable off not killing someone without the threat of hellfire to keep 'em in line - have a duty to make sure that you're in church every hour of every day of your life.

EDIT: Shit, the capitalization monster got Myke, too!

[Strell]

...which is why all Atheists are burglars and murderers?

Shut up myke. Everybody knows all murderers and burglars are atheists, not the other way around.

Also all atheists are murderers and burglars. Get it right.

[MSI Magus]

And that train of thought, my friend, is why we (Americans) are spiraling downward. People (like you) insist that we no longer need religion. But when someone gets fired from a job for no reason other than for the company to save money, we say that it's wrong. When good people get robbed, raped, and killed we say that it's wrong.

Religion provides us with sensible sets of values on how and why you should do certain things. If I suddenly lost my job, without religion to guide me I have no boundaries. I would not think twice about stealing from children. I would not care if I have to rob the elderly to get some chump change.

According to your view, MSI Magus, I am simply doing "what is" without regard to what is right and wrong. I am hungry, I need food, therefore, I steal food. And why not? As long as I don't get caught by the police because really, that's all I have to watch out for.

Say and think what you want but when anything bad happens, whether it is disasters, war-torn areas, or poverty, America is always there to help (wish I could say the same for other countries). And I truly believe that it is because our country is founded on Christian values and this just makes us want to help people.

Religion provides us with jack shit. There have been plenty of societies that have functioned without religion or with religion as a minor player. Look at much of Europe which is far ahead of America yet has far less religious people. Our conscious not religion is what guides the moral compass of man.

There are good people that are religious and it has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with these just being good people. At the same time we have plenty of religious people raping children and starting wars in the name of religion.

You can argue all you want but facts and history are on my side and the only reason your disagreeing is probably because your religions.....meaning you have to live your life blind to facts in the first damn place.

[MSI Magus]

What time does California polls close? I am really curious as to if prop 8 will pass or not. I have a feeling it is going to....but Obama is going to win....not sure if my faith in humanity will be up or down.

[HumanSnatcher]

He'll just argue that the human "conscious" is the little voice of god. Trust me, I've tried that angle before and it didn't take

[Hex]

What's wrong with him believing and living by his own life truth? Better than how most other people choose to live nowadays. Some people believe they have it all figured out. Just because it's 21st Century and we have the false sense of living in a secular age, we throw away ancient old traditions and values and religion goes out the window in the name of simplicity. There are some who claim that we will one day be able to rationalize and make sense of the world we live in. HA! What nerves! Our 365 day, 12 month calendar was created by ancient Egyptians thousands of years ago. Why don't we throw that away while we are in the "throwing away" mood.

What's wrong? What's wrong is that he's okay with me being a second class citizen cause he thinks his cult should rule over everyone else.

See the great thing about a truly smart atheist is that they're skeptical. THey're always trying to prove themselves wrong, which is the opposite of christians who doggedly grab for any shred of evidence that their belief system is the ONLY belief system, and fuck everyone who doesn't agree.

Also, religion doesn't give you jack shit. We don't steal because those of us who're good people know it's wrong because it just is, not because some fairy tale book told us so.

Look up secular humanism sometime.

[MSI Magus]

What's wrong? What's wrong is that he's okay with me being a second class citizen cause he thinks his cult should rule over everyone else.

See the great thing about a truly smart atheist is that they're skeptical. THey're always trying to prove themselves wrong, which is the opposite of christians who doggedly grab for any shred of evidence that their belief system is the ONLY belief system, and fuck everyone who doesn't agree.

Also, religion doesn't give you jack shit. We don't steal because those of us who're good people know it's wrong because it just is, not because some fairy tale book told us so.

Look up secular humanism sometime.

Also many of us are not even atheists. Its not that we disbelieve in God its that we are agnostics and constantly questioning by nature. If something cant be proven to me I dont believe it. God cant be proven or disproven thus I dont believe. However what is proven is that religion is a poison draining man kind.

[Strell]

If something cant be proven to me I dont believe it.

Ok now wait a minute - this is just a silly statement. Lots of things can't be proven, if you want to be a completely technical prick about it.

I can't prove the sun will rise tomorrow, for example. No one can.

[MSI Magus]

Ok now wait a minute - this is just a silly statement. Lots of things can't be proven, if you want to be a completely technical prick about it.

I can't prove the sun will rise tomorrow, for example. No one can.

......yes but logically we can say it will. It has risen every day before and is a pretty proven thing.

[Strell]

......yes but logically we can say it will. It has risen every day before and is a pretty proven thing.

Except...no, it's not.

It takes 8 minutes for the light to hit the Earth. So it could theoretically have a problem that wouldn't go noticed for that amount of time.

Besides, that's just an example. You can't prove tons of things in life is the point.

[The Crotch]

Just to interject, using the word "prove" in the context of anything scientific is...
... you have to keep in mind...
... it's irresponsible to...
... there are differences between...
...
... a lot of scientists hate the word "prove", okay?

[JJSP]

CA polls close in five minutes.

[lilboo]

Will we also know the results on this? I really need to know this before I go to bed.

[JJSP]

Probably not until morning. CA is historically slow when counting state ballots. I'll update accordingly.

[BigT]

Watch online here:
http://vote.sos.ca.gov/Returns/props/map190000000008.htm
0-0 so far...

I guarantee victory... in Orange County ;)

[squid]

website is slow loading, I've been trying to keep my eye on it. Oddly enough my redneck neighbors took down their Yes on 8 sign already..

[homeland]

Well Obama won! So now focus is on this barbaric vote.

[lilboo]

If it passes, I'm gonna video tape me shittin, pissin, then burnin a Bible and placing it all over the internet. I'm also gonna jerk off on a crucifix

[mykevermin]

Watch online here:
http://vote.sos.ca.gov/Returns/props/map190000000008.htm
0-0 so far...

I guarantee victory... in Orange County ;)

Thanks for that link. I bet everyone knows it now. Slow as hell loading.

[The Crotch]

Best of luck to you guys on this one, but Fallout's a-callin'. And even if it passes... Saskatchewan Mass-Wedding!

[zewone]

Wow, I can't believe "Yes" is winning.

[BigT]

Loading pretty fast here:
53-47 with 9.5% reporting.

[MSI Magus]

Wow, I can't believe "Yes" is winning.

I cant.....sad thing is that I am so conflicted. My faith in humanity has gone up with the election of Obama......yet dropped if this passes....

[squid]

You should see all the damn yellow signs all over here. It's absolutely nuts. I have hope that LA and San Francisco will help level out all the suburban bigots.

I just checked my county 61-39 yes. Ouch.. but than again, there is nothing here but giant churches and a few McDonald's.

[DarkNessBear]

Oh god... please dont win. The religious idiots around me don't deserve any happiness from this.

[BigT]

I've split time among Orange, LA, and San Diego counties over the past few months. You are right about the signs: It was about 20 Yellow Yes sign for every 1 Blue No signs. Plus the local churches have giant Yellow Banners on them.

Yes is even winning in LA 53-47 (remember, blacks and latinos are largely anti-gay). Northern California is the only hope for the No on 8 people.

[DarkNessBear]

Near me, there is a church with a HUGE lit up display for "YES on 8", around 2am I was going to see how I could cut the power on the sign; but there was someone sitting in their car (in the rain) all night protecting the sign...

[SynGamer]

I've split time among Orange, LA, and San Diego counties over the past few months. You are right about the signs: It was about 20 Yellow Yes sign for every 1 Blue No signs. Plus the local churches have giant Yellow Banners on them.

Yes is even winning in LA 53-47 (remember, blacks and latinos are largely anti-gay). Northern California is the only hope for the No on 8 people.
IF it's passed, i can see it being struck down as unconstitutional. Separation of church and state...

[zewone]

You should have killed him.

[homeland]

site crashed =(

[JJSP]

IF it's passed, i can see it being struck down as unconstitutional. Separation of church and state...
That already happened. That's why this is on the ballot again.

[squid]

Really? I remember hearing minorities were largely against prop 8 on the grounds of discrimination. I may have heard wrong. Thanks for the updates, BigT.. website doesn't want to load for me. :\ I'm getting worried.

[lilboo]

Can't wait to wipe my gay balls all over a Bible

[joe2187]

LIVE FROM CAG: Lilboo Sodomizes the bible 24 hour coverage, Updated every minute on the minute!!

[JJSP]

Local news has it 55-45 in favor with 9% reporting.

[mykevermin]

Really? I remember hearing minorities were largely against prop 8 on the grounds of discrimination. I may have heard wrong. Thanks for the updates, BigT.. website doesn't want to load for me. :\ I'm getting worried.

When Ohio had this as a ballot issue 4 years ago, Rev. Fred Shuttlesworth (major involvement in the civil rights movement w/ MLK) came out against gay marriage. Discrimination or not, black and latino populations tend to be far, far more religious than you think, and will vote based on that.

The thing about that vote in 2004? In Cincinnati, there were two ballot issues next to each other. One was gay marriage; one was a city measure that would change the law to make homosexuality a categorical status protected by equal opportunity employment laws (i.e., up until this vote in 2004, it was legal and ok to be fired for being a homo in Cincinnati). They were worded backwards, however, so that a "Yes/No" vote or "No/Yes" vote were necessary to show philosophical consistency.

Gay marriage failed, but the city measure passed by a large margin, making it illegal to fire for sexual orientation. I'm *still* convinced that the people of the city were just too stupid to read, or too lazy to read, and passed the protected employment measure by accident.

[nintendokid]

Goes to show you that just because Obama has taken office that we haven't become a liberal country. Thank God!

[Strell]

Goes to show you that just because Obama has taken office that we haven't become a liberal country. Thank God!

Dood, take my advice: click on "unsubscribe" for this thread. Seriously.

[Azumangaman]

People who vote against Gay Marriage should be shot.
CONTROVERSY TIME!

[JJSP]

Goes to show you that just because Obama has taken office that we haven't become a liberal country. Thank God!
Your God is going to give you a gay son.

[BigT]

Really? I remember hearing minorities were largely against prop 8 on the grounds of discrimination. I may have heard wrong. Thanks for the updates, BigT.. website doesn't want to load for me. :\ I'm getting worried.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2008/11/proposition-8-e.html
Exit polls: whites against, older ppl for, blacks for, latinos divided on prop 8.

[zewone]

:|

[lilboo]

Goes to show you that just because Obama has taken office that we haven't become a liberal country. Thank God!

I'm gonna suck Jesus' fat cock and show you the cum.
Shut up and get out of this thread.

[joe2187]

Goes to show you that just because Obama has taken office that we haven't become a liberal country. Thank DEMOCRACY!

8-)

[BigT]

56-44 with 12.6% reporting.
Now servers are getting sluggish for me too...

[MSI Magus]

Goes to show you that just because Obama has taken office that we haven't become a liberal country. Thank God!

Nah not really. More goes to show that despite Obamas victory hate, ignorance and bigotry exist not just in the world. If prop 8 passes it should be a sobering reminder for America that we have come along way but have a long way yet to go.

But again your a nutso Christian so cant expect you to understand that.

[homeland]

I'm gonna suck Jesus' fat cock and show you the cum.
Shut up and get out of this thread.


:lilboo........ :shakes head: Even as liberal as I am sometimes u go to far.

[lilboo]

[-(

[Azumangaman]

I'm gonna suck Jesus' fat cock and show you the cum.
Shut up and get out of this thread.
Right on lilboo!

lilboo=cool dude.

[nintendokid]

but as long as the marriage laws still say marriage is between two individuals, no harm, no foul.

Now wait a minute. If we are going to be stupid let's not be half-ass stupid. Let's go all the way. Let's do it so the shit hits the fans. Let's allow same family marriage. Let's allow two consenting person, regardless of age, to marry, even if they are just middle-schoolers. I mean, they love eachother, right? Who are we to object as long as they both consent. Am I right? No? Come on, I thought you are were about liberation. Well, let's do it! Let's liberate all of us from the oppression of traditions and religion. Let's live like nature intended us to live - free of mind fuck control, free of useless value system, free from socializations.

Pathetic. Breaking a goldfish's bowl is not liberation. There's nothing liberating about flopping around helplessly and dying a slow and painful death.

[JJSP]

[-(
Jesus doesn't have a wang. He's like a Ken doll.

[Azumangaman]

Now wait a minute. If we are going to be stupid let's not be half-ass stupid. Let's go all the way. Let's do it so the shit hits the fans. Let's allow same family marriage. Let's allow two consenting person, regardless of age, to marry, even if they are just middle-schoolers. I mean, they love eachother, right? Who are we to object as long as they both consent. Am I right? No? Come on, I thought you are were about liberation. Well, let's do it! Let's liberate all of us from the oppression of traditions and religion. Let's live like nature intended us to live - free of mind fuck control, free of useless value system, free from socializations.

Pathetic. Breaking a goldfish's bowl is not liberation. There's nothing liberating about flopping around helplessly and dying a slow and painful death.
.....
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...
..
.
What?

[spmahn]

I'm gonna suck Jesus' fat cock and show you the cum.
Shut up and get out of this thread.

Screw you. You want equality and respect from the majority of Americans? How about you start respecting the what is it, 85% of Americans who believe in some sort of spiritual faith? Clearly the majority of Americans do not agree with your lifestyle choice. This isn't Civil Rights where the issue is a few small pockets of hatred limited to just those regions, this is clearly an issue where the majority of the country simply does not agree. This is a democracy, and if you don't like it, perhaps you ought to find someplace else to reside.

[The Crotch]

.....
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.
What?He said, "I'm a song from the sixties! Alms for the pudgy? Legitimate business!"

EDIT:Screw you. You want equality and respect from the majority of Americans? How about you start respecting the what is it, 85% of Americans who believe in some sort of spiritual faith? Clearly the majority of Americans do not agree with your lifestyle choice. This isn't Civil Rights where the issue is a few small pockets of hatred limited to just those regions, this is clearly an issue where the majority of the country simply does not agree. This is a democracy, and if you don't like it, perhaps you ought to find someplace else to reside.
And a hearty "Fuck that shit!" to the tyranny of the majority, too.

EDIT2: Obviously, non-Fallout stuff (like, y'know, eating) is a very strong distraction. I'll have to do something about that.

[SynGamer]

Screw you. You want equality and respect from the majority of Americans? How about you start respecting the what is it, 85% of Americans who believe in some sort of spiritual faith? Clearly the majority of Americans do not agree with your lifestyle choice. This isn't Civil Rights where the issue is a few small pockets of hatred limited to just those regions, this is clearly an issue where the majority of the country simply does not agree. This is a democracy, and if you don't like it, perhaps you ought to find someplace else to reside.
Our founding fathers clearly said separation of CHURCH and STATE. What part of that do you not understand. Overlooking that...you might as well throw the constitution and articles in the trash.

[Azumangaman]

lilboo, come to Canada :)

[lilboo]

Screw you. You want equality and respect from the majority of Americans? How about you start respecting the what is it, 85% of Americans who believe in some sort of spiritual faith? Clearly the majority of Americans do not agree with your lifestyle choice. This isn't Civil Rights where the issue is a few small pockets of hatred limited to just those regions, this is clearly an issue where the majority of the country simply does not agree. This is a democracy, and if you don't like it, perhaps you ought to find someplace else to reside.

Nope. I have been civil for a long time. You guys fight with disrespect and ignorance; it's comin back at ya. If ya don't like it, go pray or something. Maybe Jesus Claus will bring you a nice Easter Basket this year.

[nintendokid]

But again your a nutso Christian so cant expect you to understand that.

So just because I have a strong affinity towards keeping traditions and religions alive, I'm automatically Christian full of bigotry? I am willing to bet all my games that you cannot guess my affiliation...because I am not Christian! My family's religion is animism, an ancient pagan religion. I love the values that Christians instill in their children and I recognize that America is such a great country because it has held on to its traditions. Some of you have no respect for the Founding Fathers and it's even more sickening when it's white-European American folks who are advocating gay marriage, abortion, and redistribution of wealth!!!

[spmahn]

Our founding fathers clearly said separation of CHURCH and STATE. What part of that do you not understand. Overlooking that...you might as well throw the constitution and articles in the trash.

Re-read your constitution man, the founding fathers clearly said that the state can not endorse any one specific religion and force you to follow it. There is no separation of church and state, just another liberal lie.

[MSI Magus]

Screw you. You want equality and respect from the majority of Americans? How about you start respecting the what is it, 85% of Americans who believe in some sort of spiritual faith? Clearly the majority of Americans do not agree with your lifestyle choice. This isn't Civil Rights where the issue is a few small pockets of hatred limited to just those regions, this is clearly an issue where the majority of the country simply does not agree. This is a democracy, and if you don't like it, perhaps you ought to find someplace else to reside.

/yawns

Ignorant cherry pickers dont deserve respect. 85% is way too high a % and even if it was 85% it wouldnt matter because those people are just picking and choosing the parts of faith they agree with. As I and others have shown in this topic and on this board time and time again people like nintendokid are just cherry pickers who cant hack a debate because they choose to believe only the parts of the bible they wish to believe in while disregarding the rest. They are also largely ignorant or disdainful of history and facts since it doesnt go in hand with what they wish to believe.

[doctorfaustus]

Jesus doesn't have a wang. He's like a Ken doll.
Minus the whiteness.

[Sporadic]

.....
....
...
..
.
What?

Obviously sucking some dude's cock and wanting the same rights as other couples is on par with underage incest between siblings. :roll:

I'm embarrassed that Florida seems to have voted Amendment 2 in...after voting Obama in, I thought we opened our mind.

[Azumangaman]

So just because I have a strong affinity towards keeping traditions and religions alive, I'm automatically Christian full of bigotry? I am willing to bet all my games that you cannot guess my affiliation...because I am not Christian! My family's religion is animism, an ancient pagan religion. I love the values that Christians instill in their children and I recognize that America is such a great country because it has held on to its traditions. None of you have no respect for the Founding Fathers and it's even more sickening when it's white-European American folks who are advocating gay marriage, abortion, and redistribution of wealth!!!
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What?(x2)

[BigT]

Screw you. You want equality and respect from the majority of Americans? How about you start respecting the what is it, 85% of Americans who believe in some sort of spiritual faith? Clearly the majority of Americans do not agree with your lifestyle choice. This isn't Civil Rights where the issue is a few small pockets of hatred limited to just those regions, this is clearly an issue where the majority of the country simply does not agree. This is a democracy, and if you don't like it, perhaps you ought to find someplace else to reside.

That's why they may lose. It's because they themselves are intolerant extremists: here's where I would play Gavin Newsom's "It's gonna happen, whether you like it or not..." quote.

[JJSP]

Screw you. You want equality and respect from the majority of Americans? How about you start respecting the what is it, 85% of Americans who believe in some sort of spiritual faith? Clearly the majority of Americans do not agree with your lifestyle choice. This isn't Civil Rights where the issue is a few small pockets of hatred limited to just those regions, this is clearly an issue where the majority of the country simply does not agree. This is a democracy, and if you don't like it, perhaps you ought to find someplace else to reside.
The problem lies with the fact that those who do believe in a spiritual faith are intent of cramming it down the throats of those who don't. Homosexuality is not a choice, and it is not something that can be turned off at will. Society seems intent on creating laws designed to segregate the homosexual community into their own sector with "separate but equal" classifications for just about every legal situation that might arise.

That's where I take issue. If you want to believe in a spiritual or religious ideal, that's fine. Don't punish the other 15% because they don't share the same views as you. Acceptance and tolerance are all that are being asked for - all the gay community wants is to be treated like everyone else and not made to feel like the outcasts in a nation that they call home.

It's not too much to ask.

[lilboo]

Of course it's gonna happen. It's a bunch of people putting their nose in other people's business to feel superior.

Get over yourselves. It's not over. Maybe Cali, but there IS still hope.

[Mr. 420]

Lilboo you are disgusting and I know you will rot in hell.

[Kirin Lemon]

I'm gonna suck Jesus' fat cock and show you the cum.
Shut up and get out of this thread.

I'd jack off to this.

[lilboo]

8-)
I'll be partyin it up. Doin some 420 with your boy Jay Christ. 8-)

[Azumangaman]

Of course it's gonna happen. It's a bunch of people putting their nose in other people's business to feel superior.

Get over yourselves. It's not over. Maybe Cali, but there IS still hope.
Damn right!

[JJSP]

Lilboo you are disgusting and I know you will rot in hell.
Speak civil and intelligently. Pretty simple. I'm interested to hear why you favor Prop 8. I just don't want to hear you use religion in any way.

[spmahn]

The problem lies with the fact that those who do believe in a spiritual faith are intent of cramming it down the throats of those who don't. Homosexuality is not a choice, and it is not something that can be turned off at will. Society seems intent on creating laws designed to segregate the homosexual community into their own sector with "separate but equal" classifications for just about every legal situation that might arise.

That's where I take issue. If you want to believe in a spiritual or religious ideal, that's fine. Don't punish the other 15% because they don't share the same views as you. Acceptance and tolerance are all that are being asked for - all the gay community wants is to be treated like everyone else and not made to feel like the outcasts in a nation that they call home.

It's not too much to ask.

Look, I'm not going to get into the debate about whether being gay is a choice or not, that's another argument for another thread for another day. I don't see how people expressing religious opinions is any worse then people expressing their beliefs on homosexuality. That's the most ironic thing about this whole debate, those who claim that people who disagree with gay marriage are intolerant bigots are themselves intolerant bigots.

[The Crotch]

Lilboo. Send an email to Cheapy and ask him if, for just one day, he can change your name to Lilboob.

[BigT]

Lilboo you are disgusting and I know you will rot in hell.

It's like hate crime legislation. I hit a minority, then it's a hate crime. A minority hits me and it's barely a crime! ;)

[Strell]

It's like hate crime legislation. I hit a minority, then it's a hate crime. A minority hits me and it's barely a crime! ;)

Yeah! Right on brother!

Why can't WE say the N word? Black people can do it! Why can't we? That's bullshit!

Gimme a white male high five!

[JJSP]

Look, I'm not going to get into the debate about whether being gay is a choice or not, that's another argument for another thread for another day. I don't see how people expressing religious opinions is any worse then people expressing their beliefs on homosexuality. That's the most ironic thing about this whole debate, those who claim that people who disagree with gay marriage are intolerant bigots are themselves intolerant bigots.
It's because religion is a choice, and homosexuality is not. People who disagree with gay marriage do so 90% of the time based on religion and without any actual substance. It's the same religious rhetoric over and over (the Bible says it's wrong). The Bible might say it's wrong, but it's a book written to persuade people into following a religion. It's not fact, it's opinion.

I want facts. I want reasons. I don't want to know what your book tells you to think.

[HumanSnatcher]

It's like hate crime legislation. I hit a minority, then it's a hate crime. A minority hits me and it's barely a crime! ;)

Fuck you you little bitch. There wouldn't be a need for things such as that if bigots like you were never born. To me it sounds like your advocating direct action violence towards anyone that is not straight

[Ikohn4ever]

Some of you have no respect for the Founding Fathers and it's even more sickening when it's white-European American folks who are advocating gay marriage, abortion, and redistribution of wealth!!!



Wow, you are quite precious you know that. You know nothing about our founding fathers, they were Deists for the most part. Also marriage has nothing to do with government and they should keep their nose out of it. Finally it appears you are advocating that its only non-whites that care about gay marriage, abortion, and redistribution of wealth. Which pretty much means besides being intolerant you are a racist congrats. Have fun at your next Klan meeting or are you in one of those cool Militias.

[The Crotch]

It's because religion is a choice, and homosexuality is not.I disagree completely. As far as I'm concerned religion is not a choice (though the expression of it generally is), and whether or not homosexuality is a choice is a red herring.

[Mr. 420]

Where are the facts that homosexuality is not a choice? As far as I'm concerned Lilboob chooses to be gay.

[DarkNessBear]

So just because I have a strong affinity towards keeping traditions and religions alive, I'm automatically Christian full of bigotry? I am willing to bet all my games that you cannot guess my affiliation...because I am not Christian! My family's religion is animism, an ancient pagan religion. I love the values that Christians instill in their children and I recognize that America is such a great country because it has held on to its traditions. Some of you have no respect for the Founding Fathers and it's even more sickening when it's white-European American folks who are advocating gay marriage, abortion, and redistribution of wealth!!!

Uh, the founding fathers were strongly against religion in politics... and that's all the proposition is.

[SynGamer]

I disagree completely. As far as I'm concerned religion is not a choice (though the expression of it generally is), and whether or not homosexuality is a choice is a red herring.

Religion IS a choice. You always have the option at hand to look into another faith (or none at all) and to pursue it.

[Azumangaman]

Where are the facts that homosexuality is not a choice? As far as I'm concerned Lilboob chooses to be gay.
I don't really think I should honour this post with a reply but:
Where are the facts that homosexuality IS a choice?

[spmahn]

It's because religion is a choice, and homosexuality is not. People who disagree with gay marriage do so 90% of the time based on religion and without any actual substance. It's the same religious rhetoric over and over (the Bible says it's wrong). The Bible might say it's wrong, but it's a book written to persuade people into following a religion. It's not fact, it's opinion.

I want facts. I want reasons. I don't want to know what your book tells you to think.

Again, the homosexuality choice argument is a circular one that will never be resolved, both sides of the debate have their agenda to push. Just reading through this thread it seems readily apparent to me that 90% of the time people who are for gay marriage do so based on ad hominem attacks without any actual substance, and by trying to toss in red herrings like civil rights.

[lilboo]

Where are the facts that homosexuality is not a choice? As far as I'm concerned Lilboob chooses to be gay.

So, lemme guess. You recently saw one of your fellow male classmates' cock in the locker room and it's been on your minds for weeks. Weeks.

Keep strugglin with that ;)
Lemme know when you finally come out.

[SynGamer]

Where are the facts that homosexuality is not a choice? As far as I'm concerned Lilboob chooses to be gay.
Think about it. Why would someone choose to live a life homosexuality) where they will be subjected to a life of hate, ridicule, resentment, and discrimination?

[The Crotch]

The site BigT linked to earlier just ain't working for me anymore...

[Synergy]

Think about it. Why would someone choose to live a life homosexuality) where they will be subjected to a life of hate, ridicule, resentment, and discrimination?

ding ding ding ding ding!

[JJSP]

I disagree completely. As far as I'm concerned religion is not a choice (though the expression of it generally is), and whether or not homosexuality is a choice is a red herring.
Religion is something that you're typically conditioned to believe in, whether from your family or society. In the end, though, you've got a choice in which one (if any) to follow and believe in.

If I chose to follow one that advocated punching babies in the face, we'd all agree that I was out of my gourd and needed to get a reality check. I could kick and scream all I wanted though because my religion told me that punching babies was the way to go and the right thing to do. If we had a big enough following, we could probably even pass a law that says that we had a right to punch babies daily because our religion told us it was cool.

You'd still call me a fucking moron. Just because religion says it's right doesn't mean it is.

[lilboo]

ding ding ding ding ding!

I am also ringing this bell.

[Synergy]

and by trying to toss in red herrings like civil rights.

Red herrings like civil rights? Clearly you don't know the actual definition of the term red herring.

This argument is PRECISELY ABOUT CIVIL RIGHTS. It's not a fucking red herring, asshole, it's the exact point of the discussion. Fuck, I'm starting to get annoyed.

[Azumangaman]

Think about it. Why would someone choose to live a life homosexuality) where they will be subjected to a life of hate, ridicule, resentment, and discrimination?
This x1000000000

SynGamer=infinite wisdom

[Sporadic]

Think about it. Why would someone choose to live a life homosexuality) where they will be subjected to a life of hate, ridicule, resentment, and discrimination?

Those assless leather chaps are just too cool

[The Crotch]

Religion IS a choice. You always have the option at hand to look into another faith (or none at all) and to pursue it.The option to look into? Yes. Pursue, even? Yes. Believe? Negatory. If all that there is to being a Catholic is going through the motions without actually believing - and I swear I'm not trying to summon the ghost of Daroga here - then... well, then that's pretty damn fucked up.

EDIT:Those assless leather chaps are just too cool
I'd just like to clear up a misconception: there is no such thing as "assless chaps". All chaps are, by definition, assless.

[DarkNessBear]

Ya... I don't think being gay is a choice, cause I for damn sure could not choose to go bang a dude right now.

And if your argument that being gay is a choice, than by association being straight is also a choice; so lets ban straight marriage also.

[spmahn]

Think about it. Why would someone choose to live a life homosexuality) where they will be subjected to a life of hate, ridicule, resentment, and discrimination?

A. People do a lot of crazy things. If I were to try and rationalize why some people do the things they do, my head would explode. Why do people commit crime? Why do people do drugs? Why do people join Scientology?

B. Some people are just desperate for attention, and will go through any length to get that attention whether it be positive or negative.

[lilboo]

:rofl: So now gays want to get married...for attention? Priceless.

[spmahn]

Red herrings like civil rights? Clearly you don't know the actual definition of the term red herring.

This argument is PRECISELY ABOUT CIVIL RIGHTS. It's not a fucking red herring, asshole, it's the exact point of the discussion. Fuck, I'm starting to get annoyed.

Gay marriage is not the same fucking thing as people in Alabama getting hosed for trying to vote or getting beaten and lynched for looking at a white woman. If you really think that the two are even closely related you need to get your head examined.

[nintendokid]

It's because religion is a choice, and homosexuality is not. People who disagree with gay marriage do so 90% of the time based on religion and without any actual substance. It's the same religious rhetoric over and over (the Bible says it's wrong). The Bible might say it's wrong, but it's a book written to persuade people into following a religion. It's not fact, it's opinion.

I want facts. I want reasons. I don't want to know what your book tells you to think.

I've never read the bible so I'm not actually sure what the book says about gay and gay marriage. But who are you to judge and say that these people's values have no substance and justify your own thoughts as full of substance? Who are you to say you are right? The bible wasn't written last year. It's been passed down generations, thousands of years. So what if bad shit happened along the way thanks to religion. Forget the holy wars, forget the Crusades, forget the conspiracies. Every time a country is war torn or someone needs help, I always see people with a bible and a cross ready to help. I ain't never seen people with science and mathematics book running to help others that are getting bombed the shit out of.

[homeland]

:rofl: So now gays want to get married...for attention? Priceless.


I thought all gay people were attention whores... why else do they act so......gay?

[SynGamer]

The option to look into? Yes. Pursue, even? Yes. Believe? Negatory. If all that there is to being a Catholic is going through the motions without actually believing - and I swear I'm not trying to summon the ghost of Daroga here - then... well, then that's pretty damn fucked up.

EDIT: I'd just like to clear up a misconception: there is no such thing as "assless chaps". All chaps are, by definition, assless.
I was born, baptized, and raised Catholic. Went as far as to be confirmed in the Catholic church. I went to a catholic school and my family goes to church every Sunday. After getting confirmed i began to question my faith and came to the conclusion that i don't agree with the bullshit that is 'religion'. I classify myself as agnostic. My family knows this and are ok with this. They don't ridicule or resent me, they accept me for who i am...i believe that's called choice.

[lilboo]

Gay marriage is not the same fucking thing as people in Alabama getting hosed for trying to vote or getting beaten and lynched for looking at a white woman. If you really think that the two are even closely related you need to get your head examined.

:-s

You first.

[Synergy]

A. People do a lot of crazy things. If I were to try and rationalize why some people do the things they do, my head would explode. Why do people commit crime? Why do people do drugs? Why do people join Scientology?

B. Some people are just desperate for attention, and will go through any length to get that attention whether it be positive or negative.

A. Being gay is not a "crazy" thing on par with committing crimes, doing drugs, and being a scientologist. It's not like I got drunk one night and decided to eat pussy for the rest of my life. It's who you are, plain and simple. A person shouldn't be fucking penalized for it.

B. No, no, those sluts on the girls gone wild busses are desperate for attention. This is about discrimination based on an important part of a person's identity. Do you honestly think gay people enjoy the ridicule, stress, etc. associated with being gay, even in 2008? That's just absurd.

[DarkNessBear]

A. People do a lot of crazy things. If I were to try and rationalize why some people do the things they do, my head would explode. Why do people commit crime? Why do people do drugs? Why do people join Scientology?

B. Some people are just desperate for attention, and will go through any length to get that attention whether it be positive or negative.

Hmm... so are you saying, maybe one day, when you feel like no one is paying attention to you. You are going to corn hole a dude?

[lilboo]

Eh, I think when it comes down to it.. the people who are SO against it w/ no valid reasoning will end up with a gay kid. I want to say "I hope so", because I fear for that kid..but at the same time, it's something that these people might need to wake up. It's easy to hate on something that has no real concern with you..however, if your son and/daughter were denied something you'd be pissed.

[Dead of Knight]

Ugh, checked CNN and they got it 54-46 YES with 19% reporting. What the fuck is wrong with people? I'm going to bed. I hope for lilboo's and everyone who's not a fucktard's sake they've just been counting conservative counties and the tide turns when all the votes are counted. I hope I see a NO in the morning.

[The Crotch]

I was born, baptized, and raised Catholic. Went as far as to be confirmed in the Catholic church. I went to a catholic school and my family goes to church every Sunday. After getting confirmed i began to question my faith and came to the conclusion that i don't agree with the bullshit that is 'religion'.
Cuttin' ya off right there. Did you choose that conclusion? You chose to pursue the questions that you had, yes, but did you choose the answers? If you wanted to, could you... um... choose... your way back?

If you answer yes to that, then this mini-discussion is over, 'cause our brains apparently work in two very, very different ways.

[mykevermin]

I think we should ship all gay people off the country. Like send 'em to American Samoa or some other island we don't give a fuck about.

Who's with me?

[spmahn]

A. Being gay is not a "crazy" thing on par with committing crimes, doing drugs, and being a scientologist. It's not like I got drunk one night and decided to eat pussy for the rest of my life. It's who you are, plain and simple. A person shouldn't be fucking penalized for it.

B. No, no, those sluts on the girls gone wild busses are desperate for attention. This is about discrimination based on an important part of a person's identity. Do you honestly think gay people enjoy the ridicule, stress, etc. associated with being gay, even in 2008? That's just absurd.

Again, opinions. What makes your opinions any more valid then my opinions? I never sadi that all gay people choose to be that way just to gain attention. The question was asked why someone would choose to do something despite the potential of being ridiculed by society, and I came up with a logical response.

[Strell]

Man. It would almost be worth the tempbanning to post up some gay porn in here right now, where it would be sure to do massive damage.

[homeland]

I think we should ship all gay people off the country. Like send 'em to American Samoa or some other island we don't give a fuck about.

Who's with me?

Totally, even though how they live their noncriminal lives doesn't affect me at all, its still nice knowing you can ruin someones life just because you can!!!

[The Crotch]

Man. It would almost be worth the tempbanning to post up some gay porn in here right now, where it would be sure to do massive damage.How's that three-hour schadenfreude erection going?

[lilboo]

Man. It would almost be worth the tempbanning to post up some gay porn in here right now, where it would be sure to do massive damage.

Oh dude totally. I'm gonna get myself banned when I put a video of my boyfriend in a Jesus costume, and I dress up like Mary and totally ride that shit.

[JJSP]

Californians who attend church weekly voted for Proposition 8 by an 83 percent to 17 percent. Those who attended church occasionally voted 40 percent in favor and 60 percent opposed. Californians who never attend church were 14 percent in favor and 86 percent against.
That right there shows you where the division lies. No one can honestly support Prop 8 without getting religion involved.

[Kirin Lemon]

Oh dude totally. I'm gonna get myself banned when I put a video of my boyfriend in a Jesus costume, and I dress up like Mary and totally ride that shit.

I'd jack off to *that*, too!

[The Crotch]

This, um. This isn't... this isn't gonna end... um...

It's like when you're drinking with your friends and there's always that one guy who has to totally outdo everyone else and you're all, "No man, don't rub your dick on the Subway window," or, "No, I don't think you can use his crutch to pole-vault over the fire." They never listen...

[lilboo]

8-)

[joe2187]

Hmm, newscaster just commented that people are getting violent about this prop, people are getting beat up...With Prop 8 signs. :/

[lilboo]

Hmm, newscaster just commented that people are getting violent about this prop, people are getting beat up...With Prop 8 signs. :/

WAIT. Are the gays kickin ass or are the christians beatin the gays up?!?!

[BigT]

That right there shows you where the division lies. No one can honestly support Prop 8 without getting religion involved.

Just heard on KFI that exit polls showed that blacks voted 69% yes - 31 no on prop 8. Whites voted 45% yes - 55 no. See, I can create a division line too! It must be a racial issue!

[JJSP]

Just heard on KFI that exit polls showed that blacks voted 69% yes - 31 no on prop 8. Whites voted 45% yes - 55 no. See, I can create a division line too! It must be a racial issue!
Do you have to try to be so close minded, or does that shit come naturally?

Lemme guess - another "choice", right?

[SynGamer]

Cuttin' ya off right there. Did you choose that conclusion? You chose to pursue the questions that you had, yes, but did you choose the answers? If you wanted to, could you... um... choose... your way back?

If you answer yes to that, then this mini-discussion is over, 'cause our brains apparently work in two very, very different ways.
My answer is: religion is a joke. When a book(s) tells you that you are better than X people or that X people are 'sinners' for doing something that they didn't choose in the first place, that's where i draw that line. And that goes for almost all religions, not just Catholicism.

[lilboo]

This is ridiculous.
How are people able to be alive??

So many people in this thread need their ass kicked.

[BigT]

Do you have to try to be so close minded, or does that shit come naturally?

Lemme guess - another "choice", right?

How is pointing out that black voters support prop 8 to a much greater degree than white voters closed minded? You should have countered my assertion by arguing that black people are more religious than white people in order to make this more congruent with your religion argument... ;)

[spmahn]

Ok, seriously nintendokid, stop. You're making those of us looking to have a reasonable discussion look bad. Why is it that whenever topics like these come up, you always have to deal with retards on both sides that make you look bad.

[RAMSTORIA]

i think this has a good change at going through. the last week or so at every major intersection there have been people out with signs waving and lots of honking. signs all over the place. the only place i ever hear no on is on tv, never from people on the streets. (friends aside). lets not forget a similar ballot passed 10 years ago.

told myself. im honestly not surprised.

[nintendokid]

FINE! I'm OUT! Freaking liberals....

[joe2187]

Well, at least the (liberal) blacks got something right this election.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpTNYWJzEuE

8-)

[Hex]

IF it's passed, i can see it being struck down as unconstitutional. Separation of church and state...

Agreed. This is one issue I will fight tooth and nail for until I'm dead.

[RAMSTORIA]

But knowing how you are, you would most likely do something else to my ass rather than kick it...

If you know what I mean. Ahem!

ok, at this point i just wouldnt take this "kid" seriously anymore. just pay him no mind. he just wants attention.

please do not reply, post about, or refer to nintendokid in anyway!

[lilboo]

But knowing how you are, you would most likely do something else to my ass rather than kick it...

If you know what I mean. Ahem!

First of all, I'm a bottom. PROUD BOTTOM SON. [-(
Secondly, most homophobia comes with in. Basically, your a bottom who hasn't blossomed yet.
Lastly, shut up. Get a grip on reality. The whole point of this thread and this ballot is that people's rights are up for grabs. If you are straight this has no concern on you. That's all it is.

[The Crotch]

Hmm. At this point I'm considering either going back to Fallout (having trouble getting into it at the moment), trying to sleep (won't work 'cause my sleep schedule is perma-fucked), or making a big, long penis, and hopefully well-thought-out post here (which will simply get a "tl;dr" from most people).

[gareman]

Wow! homophobes running wild!

give it a couple more years I guess :(

I just can't believe this is still an issue

[Strell]

Hmm. At this point I'm considering either going back to Fallout (having trou

Get to the point, Crotch. Sheesh.

[JJSP]

If you are straight this has no concern on you. That's all it is.
Hey now. :(

[lilboo]

Hey now. :(

MEANING, this will do NOTHING to your life.
Me getting married will not change your life WHAT SO EVER--Good OR bad!

This is why this SHOULDN'T even be an issue.

[Strell]

Well, at least the (liberal) blacks got something right this election.

wat

TMK said he didn't vote.

[spmahn]

Agreed. This is one issue I will fight tooth and nail for until I'm dead.

Except the ban has nothing to do with religion. Even if there was a separation of church and state (there isn't) it wouldn't apply to a ban on gay marriage anymore then it would apply to a ban on polluting the environment. Even if there was a separation of church and state, it still wouldn't apply here as the law really has nothing to do with any religious affiliation.

[Synergy]

edit: nevermind.

[JJSP]

Except the ban has nothing to do with religion. Even if there was a separation of church and state (there isn't) it wouldn't apply to a ban on gay marriage anymore then it would apply to a ban on polluting the environment. Even if there was a separation of church and state, it still wouldn't apply here as the law really has nothing to do with any religious affiliation.
Then why ban gay marriage? What are the reasons for banning it?

[SynGamer]

Except the ban has nothing to do with religion. Even if there was a separation of church and state (there isn't) it wouldn't apply to a ban on gay marriage anymore then it would apply to a ban on polluting the environment. Even if there was a separation of church and state, it still wouldn't apply here as the law really has nothing to do with any religious affiliation.
I'm trying to stay calm about this, so please bare with me...

When you say religion has nothing to do with Proposition 8, it's simply morals, how do people decide what their morals are? What influences their morals? I know the answer...do you?

[spmahn]

Then why ban gay marriage? What are the reasons for banning it?

Who says you need a reason? It's the will of the people.

[The Crotch]

Except the ban has nothing to do with religion. Even if there was a separation of church and state (there isn't) it wouldn't apply to a ban on gay marriage anymore then it would apply to a ban on polluting the environment. Even if there was a separation of church and state, it still wouldn't apply here as the law really has nothing to do with any religious affiliation.While I figure that the vast majority of the yes votes were based on religion, I can see this being argued in court fairly well.

When the Supreme Court of Canada ruled on this matter, it was the matter of civil rights and the inherent inequality of "separate-yet-equal" status, not the separation of church and state that they talked about.

[spmahn]

I'm trying to stay calm about this, so please bare with me...

When you say religion has nothing to do with Proposition 8, it's simply morals, how do people decide what their morals are? What influences their morals? I know the answer...do you?

Oh I have no doubt that those are for Prop 8 are religiously motivated, my argument was that it doesn't matter. The motivation for the law doesn't matter, it's the law itself that's important.

[The Crotch]

Who says you need a reason? It's the will of the people.Okay, that's it, long post comin' right up.

EDIT: And by "coming right up", I mean "in the next hour or so". I take my time. Don't wait up.

[SynGamer]

Oh I have no doubt that those are against Prop 8 are religiously motivated, my argument was that it doesn't matter. The motivation for the law doesn't matter, it's the law itself that's important.
And that law is infringing on the way people go about living their lives and their rights compared 'normal' marriages. Seriously, it's no concern to your neighbor or your government who you want to marry (so long as they are male or female). It should be up to the churches and towns/city offices to decide individually if they want to marry a gay couple.

[Strell]

Okay, that's it, long post comin' right up.

EDIT: And by "coming right up", I mean "in the next hour or so". I take my time. Don't wait up.

Fuck that. Let's play Starcraft.

[mykevermin]

please do not reply, post about, or refer to nintendokid in anyway!

^^^

[paz9x]

First of all, I'm a bottom. PROUD BOTTOM SON. [-(
Secondly, most homophobia comes with in. Basically, your a bottom who hasn't blossomed yet.
Lastly, shut up. Get a grip on reality. The whole point of this thread and this ballot is that people's rights are up for grabs. If you are straight this has no concern on you. That's all it is.

actually it concerns every resident in the state.

It should remain a civil union with the same legal
obligations as marriage. Marriage is a man and a woman as far as im concerned, that doesnt mean
two dudes or a couple chicks shouldnt be able to form a civil union and reap the same entitlements as a married man and woman. but thats just my personal feeling.

what i really dont like is legislating ones morals. and thats really what i feel this has become.
we all have a right to live our lives how we please as long as we are not encroaching on the lives of others.
we dont have the right to make laws so others will live their lives how we deem fit.

[The Crotch]

Strell, my SC is fucked for the time being. I'll get working on that shit again tomorrow, I promise.

[JJSP]

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1611129&l=53e3b&id=500789256

Just in case things don't work out, I tried.

[spmahn]

And that law is infringing on the way people go about living their lives and their rights compared 'normal' marriages. Seriously, it's no concern to your neighbor or your government who you want to marry (so long as they are male or female). It should be up to the churches and towns/city offices to decide individually if they want to marry a gay couple.

Well, that's your opinion and I respect it. However it's not up to the courts to make laws, it's the will of the people, that above all else is what this country was founded on.

[Ikohn4ever]

MEANING, this will do NOTHING to your life.
Me getting married will not change your life WHAT SO EVER--Good OR bad!

This is why this SHOULDN'T even be an issue.


i think you are being disrespectful now, when one group loses rights, we all lose rights. As a member of a minority group that has been persecuted throughout history, I have learned to not stand by while others lose their freedoms. So yes this does effect my life. This is not about gay marriage it is about peoples civil liberties being decided by the majority, when they should not have to be granted by anyone.

[Strell]

Well, that's your opinion and I respect it. However it's not up to the courts to make laws, it's the will of the people, that above all else is what this country was founded on.

I don't remember voting in the Patriod Act, or endless wiretapping, or higher wages for representatives, or for Dubya back in 2000...

[Brak]

Bets on how old NintendoKid is?

[Strell]

Bets on how old NintendoKid is?

Bets on Brak only caring because the handle has the word "Nintendo" in it?

I'm sure the odds are the same.

[Hex]

Twelve, going on ten.

[Synergy]

Well, that's your opinion and I respect it. However it's not up to the courts to make laws, it's the will of the people, that above all else is what this country was founded on.

It's not the job of some random stranger to dictate who I can and cannot marry under the law. That's a personal decision. If anything, this country was founded upon individual liberty, was it not? So why should my individual rights be taken away because some people don't like it?

I've never heard one persuasive argument about why I should not be able to marry the person I love just because another random stranger doesn't like it. I wouldn't ever dream of passing that kind of judgment on another person's personal relationships. I'm a normal, (mostly) well-adjusted, successful, conscientious citizen and tax payer. You really think your beliefs should stamp out my rights?

[spmahn]

I don't remember voting in the Patriod Act, or endless wiretapping, or higher wages for representatives, or for Dubya back in 2000...

No, but you voted for the people who did. Ok, so it's not a full fledged democracy, more of a representative one, but you elect your house members and senators just the same, and know what you're getting into when you do it.

[SynGamer]

Well, that's your opinion and I respect it. However it's not up to the courts to make laws, it's the will of the people, that above all else is what this country was founded on.
This country is about freedom.

"Fourteenth Amendment (1868): Defines a set of guarantees for United States citizenship; prohibits states from abridging citizens' privileges or immunities and rights to due process and the equal protection of the law..."

Equal protection would mean gay couples should have the same rights as straight couples.

[Strell]

No, but you voted for the people who did. Ok, so it's not a full fledged democracy, more of a representative one, but you elect your house members and senate just the same, and know what you're getting into when you do it.

Not really, because some people are delegates and others are trustees. The former tends to represent their constituents, while the latter tends to vote based on their own ideals.

Plus I don't fucking trust other humans at all anyway. So really, no, even representation isn't enough for me. Those fuckers can come to MY house, get MY opinion, and slap my balls around before I'll agree that they are doing what I want them to do.

Plus a few of my examples where Congress dreaming them up OUT OF NOWHERE and then saying YES without ANY input from the people. It's the 'ole "If we raise our prices and you don't get the notice, then the new bill is the notice."

[Brak]

Bets on Brak only caring because the handle has the word "Nintendo" in it?

I'm sure the odds are the same.
Bets on Strell shoehorning Nintendo into a discussion about NintendoKid's immature views on homosexuality.

[spmahn]

It's not the job of some random stranger to dictate who I can and cannot marry under the law. That's a personal decision. If anything, this country was founded upon individual liberty, was it not? So why should my individual rights be taken away because some people don't like it?

I've never heard one persuasive argument about why I should not be able to marry the person I love just because another random stranger doesn't like it. I wouldn't ever dream of passing that kind of judgment on another person's personal relationships. I'm a normal, (mostly) well-adjusted, successful, conscientious citizen and tax payer. You really think your beliefs should stamp out my rights?

Well, I'm sorry you feel that way, but it's just not how our system works. Is it anyone else's business whether or not gay people get married? Probably not, but it doesn't matter, they want to make it their business and the system allows them to. I don't know what to tell you.

[Strell]

Well I just won my bet.

Let us add more people into the pile that I'm having fun at the expense of.

[Brak]

You're psychotic.

[Strell]

But I've never denied that possibility, or even actuality. All those "lities" and so forth. So sure.

[jarvis307]

did someone mention starcraft??

i voted no on 8.. but i've gotten into enough fights about it.

[RAMSTORIA]

testing the new sig...


so just wondering from CA cags, did you guys think that no would actually pass or did you think that yes was inevitable?

[JJSP]

I thought No had a shot. I'm still not convinced it doesn't.

I'm optimistic, but I know better. There's a lot more religious conservatives than there are liberals in CA.

[jarvis307]

shucks.. if this is really close.. i'm gonna regret not driving my car into the "yes on 8" ass clowns at santana row last weekend. i'm a pessimist.. but this should really be a no brainer. stupid religion.

[joe2187]

So, when this Prop passes (which if the percentages are correct. It will) What's plan B?

Seems like it's pretty much decided at this point.

[Kirin Lemon]

So, when this Prop passes (which if the percentages are correct. It will) What's plan B?

Seems like it's pretty much decided at this point.

Tie the proposition's supporters to the bumpers of our cars and drag them down the highway. Oh, and have wolves rape their corpses. Twice.

[JJSP]

In Arkansas, the proposition to forbid unmarried couples from adopting children passed 57-43. This extends to both same-sex (which can't get married) and opposite-sex couples.

In Arizona, the proposition to ban gay marriage passed 56-44.

In Florida, the proposition to ban gay marriage passed 62-38.

Sucks.

[jarvis307]

do you lose your kid if you get divorced???

sheesh.. if we have to protect the sanctity of marriage, why the fuck do we allow for divorces?

[joe2187]

In Arkansas, the proposition to forbid unmarried couples from adopting children passed 57-43. This extends to both same-sex (which can't get married) and opposite-sex couples.



Wait WHAT?! ...that's fucken stupid!

[SoonerMatt]

So you're telling me that you actually voted to limit the civil liberties of a group of normal, happy people for reasons that are a personal matter and none of your business, and whose liberties would have no cost or tax on you? You selfish, bigoted asshats make me fucking sick. This is why I hate people, especially the more religious.

[thespamofpower]

I really though there were enough generally liberal or at the very least enough social libertarians that would allow this proposition to fail, but i knew it would be close because of the large socially conservative/religous groups throughout the state. I am curious if this will be considered unconstitutional at some point and be overturned, but I'm rather pessimistic.

[The Crotch]

Ugh. Meant to post this an hour or so ago but my internet went down. Currently running off some shitty, non-password-protected dealy...


Right, well, I promised a big, long post (and used my "big, long penis" joke - why do I always shoot my wad early?) a while back, so here she mothafuckin' goes. This is specifically meant to be read by Mr. 420, BigT, etc. While I'll indulge in it from time to time, preaching to the choir isn't something I really enjoy. And since I'm doing my very best to specifically address your arguments, the very least you can do is read this. Won't be a perfect job, granted, 'cause this is a big thread and it's late and I'll miss some stuff for sure, but I'll do what I can. Also, given my habit of jumping on people for poorly researched quote-mines and misattributations, I'm being God damn careful here, dig?

Who says you need a reason? It's the will of the people.
"Complaints are everywhere heard from our most considerate and virtuous citizens, equally the friends of public and private faith, and of public and personal liberty, that our governments are too unstable, that the public good is disregarded in the conflicts of rival parties, and that measures are too often decided, not according to the rules of justice and the rights of the minor party, but by the superior force of an interested and overbearing majority." - James Madison (Non-Bullshit Source (http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa10.htm))

Translation: What you're talking about is the tyranny of the majority, plain-and-simple. That is a Bad Thing. Madison then went on for another twenty paragraphs in The Federalist #10 explaining how to properly counteract this. I think it's pretty safe to say that allowing the tyranny of the majority to stand goes heavily against some of the founding principles of your country.


Speaking of the founding principles of your country: America was founded on Judeo-Christian principles.
No. While the vast majority of Americans are and always have been Christian, Christianity did not "make" America. The whole "founding fathers were all deists" thing can be argued a bit as some of them varied in intensity of belief and others flip-flopped a bit, but on the whole, yeah, it's pretty much true.

Where is the Biblical equivalent to free speech? Numbers 16:35? Were all people equal under the law in Leviticus 21:17-23? Is religious freedom guaranteed in Leviticus 24:16? You might say I'm cheating by going more to the "Judeo" part of "Judeo-Christian", but hey, God burned Sodom and killed Onan in the Old Testament, not the New. And really, the whole bit of business with Sodom is up for debate.


America was founded on religious principles.
Hypothetical person, please stop. Look at your own constitution – it's free, ya know. Do you see anything even remotely like that in there? Yes, yes, there was the bit about the “creator” in the Declaration of Independence, and yes, some of the founding fathers were pretty fond of Jesus, but that's about all you're gonna get on this bit. And if you want to argue that that somehow abrogates the whole “no favouring any religion” business... well, I'm probably not the guy you wanna talk to, but fuck, I'm game.


But this isn't favouring any religion. You can't have morality without religion.
Because all religions are in perfect agreement on homosexuality, right? No disagreement at all between, say, a Baptist and a UU?


And stating that there can be no morality without religion is just plain ignorant. Not that morality derived from secular sources is always good – fuck Ayn Rand – but it exists, and is no less valid (and, given the constitution dealy mentioned up above, preferred in this case). If you wish to argue still that even secular morality is in some way derived from religious morality – and hey, if you wanna claim some sort of responsibility for Objectivism, be my God damn guest – then... well, that doesn't work. Why?

Is something good because God (or “the gods” or whatthefuckever) says it is good? If so, then “good” is meaningless, and subject to change at the whimsy of an ineffable being. Is it then the case that God says that something is good because it truly is good? If so, then there is a standard of good outside of God and religion and all that noise.


Marriage has traditionally been a religious insti-
No, stop there. In fact, stop a couple of words earlier. Stop at “a”. Now, from there, type in “legal contract”. Strell had a great post on this earlier that I will find tomorrow.


Marriages have traditionally produced offspring, and gays and lesbians are incapable of doing that.
So are the elderly and the infertile, to say nothing those who simply choose not to have kids. Wanna take their marriages away? Besides that, there's the matter of adoption. And in-vitro fertilization. And surrogate mothers.


Gay marriage infringes on religious rights.
Negatory, good buddy. No church will be required to perform a gay wedding, and you can take your slippery slope and... I forget how that goes, actually. I wanted it to end in “smoke it”, but something just doesn't look right there.


It's disgusting and immoral.
By whose standards? Yours? Mine? James Madison's “overbearing majority”? Shit, smoking cigarettes is certainly disgusting (take a look at my dad's teeth some time and tell me it ain't) and immoral (aside from exposing others to carcinogens, you're a bigger drain on the healthcare system and, yeah, you're increasing the risk of leaving a lot of bereaved loved ones behind). Look, “disgusting” shit that we don't think is “right” happens. A-fucking-lot. So now you want a nanny-state?


Lilboo, Bear, etc. are insulting my beliefs.
First, red herring. Lilboo could cut the head off of a man and replace it with a cat tomorrow, and that still wouldn't have anything to do with whether or not he should be allowed to be married.


But hey, let's look at this more in-depth, because I think it deserves a greater degree of scrutiny than it's been getting.

The amount of damage that legalizing gay marriage would have on you (heterosexual people, and presumably ones that don't work as wedding planners or something) or me is the same: approximately zero. The amount of damage criminalizing gay marriage would have on a gay couple is – what's the word? – oh, right, motherfucking enormous. We are talking about the government saying, “Your family doesn't exist anymore.” Now, think just for a moment: if that were you, would that not get you angry? Would that not piss you the fuck off? Now imagine that the reason that the government said this was because of the opinion ofsomeoneright across the street from you. Think you might have some... “choice words” for her? For the little shit that decided that her family was more important than your family? That the love that she has for her husband is somehow more real than the love that you have for your partner? What a fucking cunt that woman is!

So yeah, are you seeing where some of the anger here comes?


Gay people are allowed to be married – to people of the opposite sex!
Good news, Random – the government has passed a law: you have to eat food that tastes like absolute shit. Now, most other people like the taste of it, and since you're eating the same thing as them, it's totally fair, yeah?

I considered using an example that had less to do with – y'know – the basic necessities of life, but fuck you, it's late. Besides, I don't think that weakens it any.


Being gay is a choice!
And that's a red herring that I won't even touch without special, herring-proof gloves.

Because those things bite.


Marriage should be for heterosexual couples, civil unions for homosexual.
Separate-yet-equal is, as it turns out, not equal. When was the last time you saw a coloured fountain?


Claiming that this is a civil rights issue is ingenuousness – nobody's being lynched or denied the right to vote, here!
Neither was the man using the coloured fountain in my last sentence (his name is Hassan, by the way – great dancer, but kinda annoying when he's drunk). While those are the most vivid and dramatic examples of the denial of rights, we're hardly limited to “voting and not getting murdered”.


NO marriage should be recognized by the government! They should stay out of that whole business!
Hey, I know this Random Person. Hi, Thrust!
Hi.
Yeah, and you think that denying gays equality is the best way to go about this? Marriage rights are not a tug-o-war. “Marriage for some” is not a necessary intermediary between “Marriage for all” and “Government out of marriage”. Getting government out of marriage – undoubtedly a difficult task, and one that I could even see myself supporting – is equally likely whether gays can marry or whether they can't. This is no reason to oppose gay marriage!


Is there anything else? I can't think of anything else. Ah, fuck this shit, I'm outta here.

[JJSP]

Just a thought.

As of now (midnight PST), San Francisco County and Los Angeles County votes have not been counted. The exit polls showed Prop 8 voted down 53-47. I'm not saying things will change, but they are FAR from over as there are a ton of votes left to be counted.

[Friend of Sonic]

Yeah, I'm a little disappointed about the AZ prop passing. I really don't understand.

[thespamofpower]

Just a thought.

As of now (midnight PST), San Francisco County and Los Angeles County votes have not been counted. The exit polls showed Prop 8 voted down 53-47. I'm not saying things will change, but they are FAR from over as there are a ton of votes left to be counted.
there is still a smallish chance that it will fail, but i'm not holding my breath. On another note, it looks like we might have a bullet train going down the state some time soon.

[thrustbucket]

So you're telling me that you actually voted to limit the civil liberties of a group of normal, happy people for reasons that are a personal matter and none of your business, and whose liberties would have no cost or tax on you? You selfish, bigoted asshats make me fucking sick. This is why I hate people, especially the more religious.

Just be glad that being gay isn't illegal. They are at least ahead other alternative marital situations in that regard.

We still live in a country where trying to be legally married to more than one spouse is illegal, but having an affair is not. So don't get too upset if people are slow to redefine marriage.

[VipFREAK]

Ok, the poll made it clear I thought... so wtf happened? There are a lot more closed minded people than I though. That or a lot more homophobes

[doctorfaustus]

1:47 am
Prop. 8
Yes 52%
No 48%
79% precincts reporting

[RAMSTORIA]

Ok, the poll made it clear I thought... so wtf happened?

cmon now. you didnt really expect a cag poll to correspond with reality. i think that at this point im surprised by how many people are surprised.

[VipFREAK]

I suppose not... but I do expect places like California to be on the no side.

[GuilewasNK]

Just be glad that being gay isn't illegal. They are at least ahead other alternative marital situations in that regard.

We still live in a country where trying to be legally married to more than one spouse is illegal, but having an affair is not. So don't get too upset if people are slow to redefine marriage.


It is weird in that regard.

[mykevermin]

Just be glad that being gay isn't illegal.

Yeah, that's a pretty big victory for citizens of a country founded on freedom.

:roll:

[botticus]

Down 350k votes with 90% reporting. And
Late absentee and provisional ballots meant as many as 3 million ballots were left to be counted after all precinct votes were tallied.


Just some constructive criticism for those who give a damn, coming from someone who is clearly not a regular on this board: you might find arguments that are for tolerance, respect, etc more effective if you actually argue them in a respectful and tolerant way. Unless you want to be little better than those you argue against.

I'd vote against 8 if I was in California, but I'd also smack about half of you fools voting the same upside the head with my ballot.

[nathansu]

It's absolutely disgusting that this measure will pass. But on the other hand, prop 22 got passed and struck down by the state courts.

Hopefully this will go down quickly - I really doubt if judges see this again they will change their minds, given the president set by the court ruling on overturning prop 22.

If there is any large scale movement to overturn 8, I will be involved with it. This amendment is unconstitutional and will not hold up in a court of law.

For those interested : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_22_(2000) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_22_%282000%29)

[The Crotch]

Yeah, I guess this one goes to the courts now, eh?

[depascal22]

It'll be deemed unconstitutional. Five bucks on it.

[The Crotch]

Yeah, I'm thinking you're right. Good luck, folks.

[mykevermin]

It'll be deemed unconstitutional. Five bucks on it.

Nope. It's an amendment to the CA state constitution. I actually used prop 8 in a class discussion on the sociological definition of "authority" (legitimate use of power by the government) just now.

Prop 22 passed and was struck down as 'unconstitutional' by the courts.

Portions of the population found this to lack 'authority' and deemed it an illegitimate use of judicial power.

So they're circumventing the constitutionality of it by having the bill amend the constitution. Can't say it's unconstitutional if it's in the constitution itself, can ya?

[nathansu]

It'll be deemed unconstitutional. Five bucks on it.

Yup. 14th FTW.

Section. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

This will be quickly overturned. I'd bet you'll see an ACLU suit filed within days.

[nathansu]

Nope. It's an amendment to the CA state constitution. I actually used prop 8 in a class discussion on the sociological definition of "authority" (legitimate use of power by the government) just now.

Prop 22 passed and was struck down as 'unconstitutional' by the courts.

Portions of the population found this to lack 'authority' and deemed it an illegitimate use of judicial power.

So they're circumventing the constitutionality of it by having the bill amend the constitution. Can't say it's unconstitutional if it's in the constitution itself, can ya?

Federally, you certainly can. Federal jurisdiction is not required to rule based on the national constitution :X.

[depascal22]

Sorry, myke. I should've clarfied. The state Constitution is in direct opposition to the federal Constitution. Feds win every time. Well, most of the time.

[mykevermin]

Sorry, myke. I should've clarfied. The state Constitution is in direct opposition to the federal Constitution. Feds win every time. Well, most of the time.

Not holding my breath on that. I hope, sure, but we'll see.

[Hex]

In more uplifting news, Jared (I think) Polis was elected to the House here in Colorado. He's the third openly gay congressman to currently serve, I think. This helps a little bit. I wanna get in touch with the guy, if I can, and see if I can't get him to be as active as he can on this topic.

[RAMSTORIA]

Sorry, myke. I should've clarfied. The state Constitution is in direct opposition to the federal Constitution. Feds win every time. Well, most of the time.

so got drunk last night for the election fun thinking most of the props i voted on wouldnt go my way (most did!) and i was telling my friend about the "liberal gay conspiracy" (i was joking around) that the gays put prop 8 on the ballot knowing it would pass in california so that it could be overturned federally... then gay marriage would be legal EVERYWHERE! :hot:

[Kaijufan]

Yup. 14th FTW.

Section. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

This will be quickly overturned. I'd bet you'll see an ACLU suit filed within days.

Let's hope they do and Prop 8 gets overturned quickly.

[Trakan]

Guys, chill the fuck out in this thread. Multiple posts have been deleted multiple times. One user was a big problem yes, but not everyone was innocent. The thread is close to being locked.

[depascal22]

I'm all for diversity in Congress. I hope he stays around long enough to change people's attitudes.

I have a theory on this. Gays need an opportunity to shine. Blacks have used sports to show America that we're every bit as skilled and talented as anyone else. Michael Jordan was never a civil rights champion but he transcended race and borders to become something else.

Maybe we'll see a gay President or an openly gay CEO of a Fortune 500 company but someone has to show the world that gays are more than just horny dudes with fashion sense.

(I know that was a generalization but that perception has to be dealt with if you want real change.)

Fortunately, we now have a black President but I don't think America will be ready for a gay one for a few decades if ever.

[mykevermin]

Guys, chill the fuck out in this thread. Multiple posts have been deleted multiple times. One user was a big problem yes, but not everyone was innocent. The thread is close to being locked.

locking a vs forum thread? That would be a first!

Let's make it happen, queers!

[Strell]

Let's make it happen, queers!

I think you should end every post in every board with this.

[MSI Magus]

locking a vs forum thread? That would be a first!

Let's make it happen, queers!

Ya....but it would kind of be called for if stuff keeps up. Lilboo has gone over the top a few times and the temporarily banned user went waaaaaay over the top in the post that got moderated(wont repeat it since the mods clearly dont want it to be understandbly).

[Hex]

I'm all for diversity in Congress. I hope he stays around long enough to change people's attitudes.

I have a theory on this. Gays need an opportunity to shine. Blacks have used sports to show America that we're every bit as skilled and talented as anyone else. Michael Jordan was never a civil rights champion but he transcended race and borders to become something else.

Maybe we'll see a gay President or an openly gay CEO of a Fortune 500 company but someone has to show the world that gays are more than just horny dudes with fashion sense.

(I know that was a generalization but that perception has to be dealt with if you want real change.)

Fortunately, we now have a black President but I don't think America will be ready for a gay one for a few decades if ever.

I think a gay president is possible, but I'm with you in saying it'll be a while. Something I've been thinking about lately is that we don't have a figure to rally around. There's Harvey Milk, but I don't think most gay people know who he is. The fact is there that not all non-hetero people are horny dude with fashion sense. We're doctors, we're nurses, police officers, firefighters, congressmen, teachers, plumbers, and yes, interior designers. I will not exclude or try to quiet that the flamboyant among the community are a big part of the community. I welcome that. Hell I can get pretty queeny myself to make people laugh. To exclude those who're flamboyant is just as discriminatory as the straights who cayunt stayund them faygits. Our entire community is in this together.

The conundrum is becoming- and using this word for the emotional impact- an Uncle Tom. Do you act straight to become accepted by the straights because they're more comfortable with a $$$ who has short, conservative hair and dresses in suits because you're more likely to win? Do you change your whole attitude, refrain from kissing your partner in front of cameras to appease the bigots for their vote? That's the problem (and of course it's present in any sort of election, regardless of the issue). It makes me want to gag, but sadly, you have to act like a straight WASP to get anywhere in politics. I hate that but.. until something like Prop 8 is declared by the majority to be the bullshit that it is, we need a non-hetero icon that everyone of every orientation who's pro-equal rights can rally around. Maybe Polis could be that for us. I haven't followed him really at all, but having read the news about his landslide victory, he's someone I'll be keeping my eye on. When we have someone who is able to unite the queens, the bears, the dykes and everyone around our common cause of equal rights.. then we have a great chance at winning.

[thrustbucket]

Yeah, that's a pretty big victory for citizens of a country founded on freedom.

:roll:

Don't make me derail the thread with Polygamy again. You know how much I get off on it. ;)

[StarKnightX]

Kinda on-topic , but does anyone know whether Amendment 2 in Florida passed or not? I was watching election coverage on and off last night and I did not happen to notice what happened to it. Based off current rumored results to Prop 8 I'm guessing Amend 2 is going to go the same way.

[homeland]

I think a gay president is possible, but I'm with you in saying it'll be a while. Something I've been thinking about lately is that we don't have a figure to rally around. There's Harvey Milk, but I don't think most gay people know who he is. The fact is there that not all non-hetero people are horny dude with fashion sense. We're doctors, we're nurses, police officers, firefighters, congressmen, teachers, plumbers, and yes, interior designers. I will not exclude or try to quiet that the flamboyant among the community are a big part of the community. I welcome that. Hell I can get pretty queeny myself to make people laugh. To exclude those who're flamboyant is just as discriminatory as the straights who cayunt stayund them faygits. Our entire community is in this together.

The conundrum is becoming- and using this word for the emotional impact- an Uncle Tom. Do you act straight to become accepted by the straights because they're more comfortable with a $$$ who has short, conservative hair and dresses in suits because you're more likely to win? Do you change your whole attitude, refrain from kissing your partner in front of cameras to appease the bigots for their vote? That's the problem (and of course it's present in any sort of election, regardless of the issue). It makes me want to gag, but sadly, you have to act like a straight WASP to get anywhere in politics. I hate that but.. until something like Prop 8 is declared by the majority to be the bullshit that it is, we need a non-hetero icon that everyone of every orientation who's pro-equal rights can rally around. Maybe Polis could be that for us. I haven't followed him really at all, but having read the news about his landslide victory, he's someone I'll be keeping my eye on. When we have someone who is able to unite the queens, the bears, the dykes and everyone around our common cause of equal rights.. then we have a great chance at winning.

WTF you talking about. I can name 4..

Doogie Hoosier
Sulu
Lance Bass
Rupal.

[judyjudyjudy]

I just got married last weekend (the non-gay kind), and this prop passing really puts a damper on things. I grabbed my marriage license a couple weeks ago, and there were two lesbian couples in front of me, hurrying to get married. I remember thinking that it sucks that because of other people, they have to do things rushed and now and not on their own terms. Ugh, I can't believe this. I really thought Californians were better than this.

I haven't read any of this thread... been busy. Just wanted to bitch.

[Hex]

WTF you talking about. I can name 4..

Doogie Hoosier
Sulu
Lance Bass
Rupal.

Four what? Four entertainers?

Doogie Hauser: Hawt as hell, but not very popular anymore.
Sulu: Okay, yeah.. I fucking love that guy. He's awesome, and open. Didn't he go on some show and told some anti-gay asshole to suck it?
Lance: I don't think anyone takes him seriously, regardless of orientation.
Rupaul: Awesome (sashay, chante) but drag queens aren't taken very seriously either.

[SpazX]

Kinda on-topic , but does anyone know whether Amendment 2 in Florida passed or not? I was watching election coverage on and off last night and I did not happen to notice what happened to it. Based off current rumored results to Prop 8 I'm guessing Amend 2 is going to go the same way.

Passed far better than prop 8 - 62% to 38% according to CNN.

So my suggestion to gay people in Florida is to move to California, where they hate you 10% less (Hell, Arizona's gay marriage ban didn't even pass as well as Florida's).

[StarKnightX]

Passed far better than prop 8 - 62% to 38% according to CNN.

So my suggestion to gay people in Florida is to move to California, where they hate you 10% less.

I just read where JJSP posted that about 1 page back. Shoulda double checked before asking. Pisses me off , but doesn't really surprise me since , of course , we have to protect marriage.

[nathansu]

I just read where JJSP posted that about 1 page back. Shoulda double checked before asking. Pisses me off , but doesn't really surprise me since , of course , we have to protect marriage.

Shall be overturned, won't matter much soon.

Bigots really get my panties in a knot.

[SpazX]

Bigots really get my panties in a knot.

Well I guess that's fitting as it seems panties can really get bigots in a knot.

I'll be here all night.

[BlueSwim]

I bet I know what Rob Roberts' F-U of the week is going to be on this week's Orange Lounge Radio. I'm a straight guy and I was pulling for the ban to fail, if only for his sake. It's hate, man. It's just plain hate.

[StarKnightX]

Shall be overturned, won't matter much soon.

Bigots really get my panties in a knot.

Florida , the state of 1 million amendments. One that drove me crazy in recent years was the bullet train plan. Passed the first time , then was on the ballot again to be negated and was passed again. All they had to do was tell everyone that taxes would go up and that it would be years before the thing was finished and everyone bailed. Cause who needs mass transit when everyone has a car?:roll:

[nathansu]

Well I guess that's fitting as it seems panties can really get bigots in a knot.

I'll be here all night.

Yes, they're called manties.

...

LOL.

[lilboo]

Can't wait for it to be overturned 8-)

[mykevermin]

THIS THREAD IS DARK-SIDED!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCh2FXzD6R4

[BlueSwim]

2:15.....That's as much as I could take......That's why I'm not religious.

[MSI Magus]

2:15.....That's as much as I could take......That's why I'm not religious.



Awww dont hate! You have to respect spirtual wars like her, Palin and nintendokid!

[thrustbucket]

Yeah... Because that's exactly how all religious people are....

[lilboo]

Yeah... Because that's exactly how all religious people are....

In a nutshell, yes

[KingBroly]

Can't wait for it to be overturned 8-)

Unless I'm mistaken, it becomes part of the state Constitution.

[thrustbucket]

In a nutshell, yes

Then you can't call anyone ignorant that thinks all gays are flaunty in-your-face cross-dressing Rupaul like queens.

[Dead of Knight]

http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/9893/gay000306marriageed01darl3.jpg