Religulous -Bill Mahr's new religion shredding documentary

[thrustbucket]

I figure it's only a matter of time before we have a thread for this movie, especially considering how many people frequenting this forum that despise religion.

http://www.lionsgate.com/religulous/

Watch the trailer. Discuss. And if you see the movie, discuss some more.

[MSI Magus]

I figure it's only a matter of time before we have a thread for this movie, especially considering how many people frequenting this forum that despise religion.

http://www.lionsgate.com/religulous/

Watch the trailer. Discuss. And if you see the movie, discuss some more.

Unless there is a new Xmen or Saw coming out I dont go to the movies.....but this one has me tempted. Religion is the most disgusting thing man has ever come up with(I would have said weapons are but at least they have some uses) and most(no not all but most)religious people are fucking morons that believe at least a handful of contradictorily things and disregard certain parts of their religion for their own convenience.

Mahers also a pretty smart guy, he does lean quite a bit to the left but you know what he gives everyone shit equally and doesnt just pull stuff from his ass to back his beliefs. Iv also seen him admit he was wrong numerous times. So before people like thrust and broly go off on him again stop and think do O Riley or Hanity do either of these?

[DarkSageRK]

It's not that we despise religion so much as that we value free thinking.

[Dead of Knight]

Holy shit, it's actually playing near me on Friday. I might have to go see it.

[thrustbucket]

Unless there is a new Xmen or Saw coming out I dont go to the movies.....but this one has me tempted. Religion is the most disgusting thing man has ever come up with(I would have said weapons are but at least they have some uses) and most(no not all but most)religious people are fucking morons that believe at least a handful of contradictorily things and disregard certain parts of their religion for their own convenience.
You are a pretty tolerant person, I'm guessing.

Mahers also a pretty smart guy, he does lean quite a bit to the left but you know what he gives everyone shit equally and doesnt just pull stuff from his ass to back his beliefs. Iv also seen him admit he was wrong numerous times. So before people like thrust and broly go off on him again stop and think do O Riley or Hanity do either of these?

I really take no issue with a movie bashing religion. There is a lot to bash. But when I've seen Mahr poking fun of religion in the past, he approaches everything from a very simplistic view that makes him look like a moron. If you are going to make fun of something, at least become educated enough on it to do so.

For example: In that trailer he asks a guy "Well if god is all powerful, why doesn't he destroy Satan?". These, along with any question of "If god is all powerful, why doesn't he _______" are lame questions that only a person with a very simplistic understanding of religion would ask. They are akin to the creationist that says "Well if we really all came from monkey's, show me the fossils of half-man half-monkey."

Another example: Every time I've seen him bring up mormons, he loves to talk about polygamy. The only thing he could say about Romney was polygamy jokes. Give me a break. It's the most tired stereotype in American religion, and it isn't true, but he hasn't gotten the memo.

That all being said, I think this is simply an answer to Ben Stein's movie, which I never cared to watch either. But I know it will have its audience, like you, and others here.

[dmaul1114]

I don't think much of Mahr, so I don't have much desire to see that movie despite my general dislike of organized religion--and particularly of beliefs like Palin that things like the Iraq War are gods will etc.

But just because I have certain beliefs, doesn't mean I need to see a movie shredding religion. I generally don't bash religion, people can believe whatever they want as long as they aren't shoving it down other's throats. Or running for office. If you run for office and have beliefs like Palin, that's a huge strike against you in my book. I want people who are free thinkers, not people who write shit off as gods will. Nor do I want people in office who want to force religion on others (intelligent design in schools etc).

Anyways...that's getting off topic so I'll leave it at that.

[thrustbucket]

Nah, you aren't off topic, imo.

Well said, dmaul. I tend to mostly agree with that. I can fully understand people that dislike religion for historical reasons. But I do take issue with people that just have a livid hate and inherent distrust of all religious people.

[Frogurt.man]

Scariest grilled cheese EVAR!

[Friend of Sonic]

There's an AMC about fifteen miles from where I live showing it. I think I'll go see it. I watched the trailer, and it does come off as a bit of exploitation-- although he doesn't come off as hostile. I mean, that's their fault if they stumble when he asks, "Why is faith good?"

[thrustbucket]

Yeah Sonic, go see it, give us a review.

[MSI Magus]

You are a pretty tolerant person, I'm guessing.



I really take no issue with a movie bashing religion. There is a lot to bash. But when I've seen Mahr poking fun of religion in the past, he approaches everything from a very simplistic view that makes him look like a moron. If you are going to make fun of something, at least become educated enough on it to do so.

For example: In that trailer he asks a guy "Well if god is all powerful, why doesn't he destroy Satan?". These, along with any question of "If god is all powerful, why doesn't he _______" are lame questions that only a person with a very simplistic understanding of religion would ask. They are akin to the creationist that says "Well if we really all came from monkey's, show me the fossils of half-man half-monkey."

Another example: Every time I've seen him bring up mormons, he loves to talk about polygamy. The only thing he could say about Romney was polygamy jokes. Give me a break. It's the most tired stereotype in American religion, and it isn't true, but he hasn't gotten the memo.

That all being said, I think this is simply an answer to Ben Stein's movie, which I never cared to watch either. But I know it will have its audience, like you, and others here.

Ill openly admit I am not tolerant of religion.....but that alone makes me a hell of a lot more tolerant then religious people. Honestly religion is something that time and time again has been a blight. Most major wars and genocides had at least SOMETHING to do with some religious aspect. Then there is the fact that in modern times you look at religion and for every rational person there are 50 others out there that believe stupid shit like gays marrying will be the downfall of the world. Even those that dont often still focus on issues like abortion even though we have world fucking poverty starving people that are already born to death.

Maher actually does know something about the issue. He was raised Catholic so he had at least 13 years of going to church every weekend. He also clearly understand much of the issue because he can quote various things from the bible. I am not saying he is the best source, he is far from it(Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitches are the real smart guys)......but he has an intelligent stance on the issue and when you look at the overall stance of things he is not only willing to say things that others wont and stand up for the truth, but he is willing to stand down and admit he is wrong when he is proven to be. Again not saying the guy is an amazing human that I worship or anything, just that iv seen him get bashed her and in all fairness he is far better then people like Micheal Moore, O Riely and Hanity. But hey as per usual if you want to ASSume(hehe)things about me even though unlike you my words dont imply such. Go ahead.

Finally you talk about him with mormons as an example which just isnt true. He actually brought up numerous mormon beliefs such as the magical underwear thing and Blacks being a cursed race. And you can act like these are just things from the past and they arnt relevant but they are for 2 core reasons. First off even if all mormons dont follow polygamy or other goofy things like magic underwear many still do. Second and just as important be it with Mormons, Christians or any other religion even if they dont believe in fantastical shit like turning water into whine or magical under pants they believe other things from those religions and thus are cherry picking.

Cherry picking is a big problem with modern religion. People call themselves of this faith or that faith.....but when it comes down to it they just believe certain core principles and wish to disgard the rest. lets use Christians as an example because there are many of these modern day Christians that like to claim they are Christian but simply dont "take the bible as a literal translation". What this means is that you can call yourself Christian and believe that a man named Christ walked the earth performing great acts and then was killed and resurrected. However you dont have to go to church on Sunday nor tithe all of a sudden because those are not parts of the bible that should be taken literally.

Its just bull shit. Final thing ill say in this long post which at this point is more of a rant is that I also cannot be tolerant of Religion because Religion in and of itself cannot be tolerant of me. Religious people at their core have a belief that they have found an answer to the meaning of life and death and that if you dont share it your wrong. Even when religious people are fucking nice about it their still condescending and believe so whole heartedly that they have the answer that I must be fucking wrong. Look at the lady below as an example.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=309MCU8TonE&feature=related

Say what you want, I can be tolerant of almost anything. If your gay no problem! If you want to be a polygamist, no problem! If you want to dye your ass hair then braid it to your nose hair, no problem! If you want to believe goblins come in your room at night and blow you, no problem! But religion starts wars and it makes even the best of people into asshats thus I have a problem.

[MSI Magus]

I don't think much of Mahr, so I don't have much desire to see that movie despite my general dislike of organized religion--and particularly of beliefs like Palin that things like the Iraq War are gods will etc.

But just because I have certain beliefs, doesn't mean I need to see a movie shredding religion. I generally don't bash religion, people can believe whatever they want as long as they aren't shoving it down other's throats. Or running for office. If you run for office and have beliefs like Palin, that's a huge strike against you in my book. I want people who are free thinkers, not people who write shit off as gods will. Nor do I want people in office who want to force religion on others (intelligent design in schools etc).

Anyways...that's getting off topic so I'll leave it at that.

Like I said, the problem is several fold. First off it is shoved down our throat and the throats of people world wide. Almost every nation either currently has or in the past has had religion control their politics and thus their lives. From Christians in the US to Muslims in the Middle East to the Emperor years prior in Japan it has fucked over peoples lives the world over. Second religion as I pointed out in and of itself crams itself down your throat because it claims day in day out, you are not living your life by my principles so you are wrong.

[level1online]

What a real shitbrick that guy Bill Maher is....

How did I know the first thing he would show in that trailer is George W. Bush and his association with Christianity?

I've said it once and I'll say it again, GW is not Christian, he's a Luciferian. He worships, the light-bearer. You judge a man by his actions.

So the question goes, in this film will Bill Maher be interviewing any leaders from the Church of Lucifer or Church of Satan?

Will he mention that at one point in history, the #2 highest selling religious book right behind the bible was the Satanic Bible?

Will he talk about Anton Lavey? Aleister Crowley? Human Sacrifice? Pagan Symbolism? Mystery Religions? etc? etc? etc?

No, he's basically going to say:

Christians are fucked up.
Jews are fucked up.
Muslims are fucked up.

Religion is the reason why things are fucked up.

[dmaul1114]

Like I said, the problem is several fold. First off it is shoved down our throat and the throats of people world wide. Almost every nation either currently has or in the past has had religion control their politics and thus their lives. From Christians in the US to Muslims in the Middle East to the Emperor years prior in Japan it has fucked over peoples lives the world over. Second religion as I pointed out in and of itself crams itself down your throat because it claims day in day out, you are not living your life by my principles so you are wrong.

All of that is true...to an extent. Especially if just railing against organized religion.

But it doesn't mean that every religious person is that way. I have plenty of friends who are religious, but keep their religious views to themselves as they view it to be a private thing that people should deal with themselves.

So I'm not going to go on a total rant against religion, as it's not always bad.

[FloodsAreUponUS]

The lack of correct spelling in this thread disturbs me.

Maher, not Mahr.

Fuck. Looks like this movie is not playing anywhere close to me.
Ill wait for the BD.

[MSI Magus]

What a real shitbrick that guy Bill Maher is....

How did I know the first thing he would show in that trailer is George W. Bush and his association with Christianity?

I've said it once and I'll say it again, GW is not Christian, he's a Luciferian. He worships, the light-bearer. You judge a man by his actions.

So the question goes, in this film will Bill Maher be interviewing any leaders from the Church of Lucifer or Church of Satan?

Will he mention that at one point in history, the #2 highest selling religious book right behind the bible was the Satanic Bible?

Will he talk about Anton Lavey? Aleister Crowley? Human Sacrifice? Pagan Symbolism? Mystery Religions? etc? etc? etc?

No, he's basically going to say:

Christians are fucked up.
Jews are fucked up.
Muslims are fucked up.

Religion is the reason why things are fucked up.

Even if it was the second highest book it wasnt the second highest practice and it wouldnt matter. People like Crowly and Lavey were such extreme examples of religion there is no point IN bringing them up. people need to be educated about what the mainstream "good guy" religions are all about and what they have done not what satanism has which people even if they had no clue would just assume the worst from the name. Same with paganism. Pretty much anything that's not the 3 major religions is seek as hokey hippie religion or evil.


"All of that is true...to an extent. Especially if just railing against organized religion.

But it doesn't mean that every religious person is that way. I have plenty of friends who are religious, but keep their religious views to themselves as they view it to be a private thing that people should deal with themselves.

So I'm not going to go on a total rant against religion, as it's not always bad."

2 Things. Its not bad all the time but id argue its bad most of the time. Second off your religious friends, look more closely. Do they go to church on a regular basis? Do they tithe? DO they follow the other tenets of the good book? If not then their cherry picking which again ya its nice that their not shove it down your throat kind of Christians......but at the same time they arnt really Christians at all their people that pick and choose parts of something you kind of have to take as a package deal.

Dont get me wrong I know alot of religious people and if they dont talk religion with me I dont talk about it with them and im willing to accept them in my life and even love them. However it wont stop me from seeing how childish and false their belief system is.

[FloodsAreUponUS]

Magus it seems like you are being the ignorant and intolerant one. You talk about how all religion is not tolerant, yet you can't accept the fact its what some people believe.

There is nothing you can do to ever change that. Live with it.

It gets to me when people start hating on religious types. Hate the ideals not the people.

[dmaul1114]

We'll just have to disagree on that one.

I was much more gung-ho, anti-religion across the board when I was younger, but I've since realized such extreme views just aren't worth having.

There's a ton of stuff I dislike about religion, but there are plenty of religious people are are just fine, and plenty of churches that do good charity work without being extreme in forcing their views on people and so on.

I'll never be a supporter of religion, but their are bigger issues to spend my time on than attacking religion at every turn.

[The Crotch]

I figure it's only a matter of time before we have a thread for this movie, especially considering how many people frequenting this forum that despise religion.
I'd like a number here. Or some examples. Magus, sure. Maybe lilboo, depending on how you look at some of his statements? Maybe... I dunno, Hex? I can't remember, and he hardly "frequents" this forum (unless you mean CAG in general). Are there threads here that I'm not reading, or is this the old equation of outspokenness against religion/in favour of atheism equaling the hatred of religion?

For example: In that trailer he asks a guy "Well if god is all powerful, why doesn't he destroy Satan?". These, along with any question of "If god is all powerful, why doesn't he _______" are lame questions that only a person with a very simplistic understanding of religion would ask.Depends heavily on the response and follow-up.

Also, don't plan on seeing the movie.

[FloodsAreUponUS]

We'll just have to disagree on that one.

I was much more gung-ho, anti-religion across the board when I was younger, but I've since realized such extreme views just aren't worth having.

There's a ton of stuff I dislike about religion, but there are plenty of religious people are are just fine, and plenty of churches that do good charity work without being extreme in forcing their views on people and so on.

I'll never be a supporter of religion, but their are bigger issues to spend my time on than attacking religion at every turn.

I agree 100%.

[MSI Magus]

Magus it seems like you are being the ignorant and intolerant one. You talk about how all religion is not tolerant, yet you can't accept the fact its what some people believe.

There is nothing you can do to ever change that. Live with it.

How so? Again if someone wants to believe in God I have no problem with it. My fiancee believes in reincarnation and while I dont believe it I have no problem with it. I even went to church with her for awhile when she was going to Uninitarian Universalist churches because they preach a general good hearted message. My problem is with organized religion which as I said has time and time again caused problems in history and you cannot deny that to this day it is causing problems.

I am far from ignorant on the subject having grown up with parents that took me to church and I even went to a Baptist school for 3 years. You know what happaned at that baptist school? We had atleast 1 sermon a year where we were asked if we were saved and if not to raise our hands that no one would look it was between us and God. Then anyone that raised their hand was rounded up in the next class and taken to the gym locker room and pretty much converted(not fucking lying here, I actually became a Christian for a few years as a child because of this shit).

It isnt just my opinion but a damn fact just looking around at both history and the world we live in that religin is poison. As I said im tolerant of others views. Hell im a fucking agnostic for Christs sake. I just take serious issue to anyone that claims to know the answer to life or death, and I have a problem with organized religions history.

[FloodsAreUponUS]

How so? Again if someone wants to believe in God I have no problem with it. My fiancee believes in reincarnation and while I dont believe it I have no problem with it. I even went to church with her for awhile when she was going to Uninitarian Universalist churches because they preach a general good hearted message. My problem is with organized religion which as I said has time and time again caused problems in history and you cannot deny that to this day it is causing problems.

I am far from ignorant on the subject having grown up with parents that took me to church and I even went to a Baptist school for 3 years. You know what happaned at that baptist school? We had atleast 1 sermon a year where we were asked if we were saved and if not to raise our hands that no one would look it was between us and God. Then anyone that raised their hand was rounded up in the next class and taken to the gym locker room and pretty much converted(not fucking lying here, I actually became a Christian for a few years as a child because of this shit).

It isnt just my opinion but a damn fact just looking around at both history and the world we live in that religin is poison. As I said im tolerant of others views. Hell im a fucking agnostic for Christs sake. I just take serious issue to anyone that claims to know the answer to life or death, and I have a problem with organized religions history.

Organized Religion has caused many problems. I know this. I just think that your energy is better used on something you have more control over.
I used to be the same way when I was younger, and It got to the point where my feverant anti-religion was making me literally ill, and causing me social problems.(I live in the bible belt)

I just know from my experience that alot of people will be fucking stupid and never see the light of day about religion. I have given up hope on these people, and moved on in my life.

I still hate religion, but you can't change the sheep that follow it.

[MSI Magus]

Organized Religion has caused many problems. I know this. I just think that your energy is better used on something you have more control over.
I used to be the same way when I was younger, and It got to the point where my feverant anti-religion was making me literally ill, and causing me social problems.(I live in the bible belt)

I just know from my experience that alot of people will be fucking stupid and never see the light of day about religion. I have given up hope on these people, and moved on in my life.

I still hate religion, but you can't change the sheep that follow it.

The problem seems to be that your assuming im currently this way. As I said if you read my posts I have religious people in my life and I accept and love them. This is a topic on the internet so im blowing off steam and simply stating the facts that I often want to with them but dont. Dont get me wrong if it comes up then might as well go ahead and make my views clear real fast. But I wont waste sleep over it or anything.

[Chacrana]

Though I'm a Christian and not super-interested in the movie, I do sorta want to see it if it gets good reviews. It could be interesting if done right.

[Dr Mario Kart]

Getting rid of religion is a multi-generational approach. The infection can only be spread during a critical time period in childhood before the critical thinking facilities are fully developed. Teaching fairy tales-as-fact to even a teenager is very difficult.

The key is a school (and home) environment that focuses on developing critical thinking, and being wary of magical thinking. These things are less likely to latch on if the community/environment dont reinforce it. Logic, rhetoric, and applied math should be mandatory courses right out the gate.

[level1online]

Even if it was the second highest book it wasnt the second highest practice and it wouldnt matter.

I do believe it is being practiced very heavily, but most don't recognize it. One term used to describe it is "Hidden in plain sight."

I used to think satanism was laughable, simply about teenagers with black clothes, pentagrams, and sacrificing small animals. It actually goes way deeper than that. There's an entire philosophy and lingo that goes along with it. The symbols & trademarks of this religion have become so interwoven into our society, that most don't even recognize it when it's slapping them across the face while watching TV.

Also, I've noticed that a few of you guys on this forum share somewhat similar ideals with luciferians. I don't think it's on purpose though, that's why I've never brought it up. It's that whole, "Do whatever you want, as long as no one gets hurt" mentality. Also, with certain views in concern to science, nature, and politics.



People like Crowly and Lavey were such extreme examples of religion there is no point IN bringing them up.

Oh really? Then whats Osama Bin Laden? isn't he an extreme example of his religion?

What about Sarah Palin, isn't she an extreme example of her religion?

----
----

anyways,
You ever see those spots on TV right around the time of Memorial Day? Y'know the ones that talk about our troops paying "the ultimate sacrifice" ?
Man, if only some of you guys knew what that really meant.



people need to be educated about what the mainstream "good guy" religions are all about and what they have done not what satanism has which people even if they had no clue would just assume the worst from the name. Same with paganism. Pretty much anything that's not the 3 major religions is seek as hokey hippie religion or evil.

I disagree, people need to get educated on the "evil" religions as well, so when it subtly starts infiltrating the "good" religions people can recognize it.

So when some random church pastor spews shit like "This war is God's will" the immediate knee jerk reaction will be "NO IT"S NOT, BITCH!" and storm out the church.

Anyways, I wonder if Bill Maher will talk about 501c3.

[cochesecochese]

Will he mention that at one point in history, the #2 highest selling religious book right behind the bible was the Satanic Bible?

Go Harry.

Will he talk about Anton Lavey? Aleister Crowley? Human Sacrifice? Pagan Symbolism? Mystery Religions? etc? etc? etc?

Strawmen much? Did any of these groups have significant, if any, sway over public discourse?

[SpazX]

Yes, Satanism is highly practiced, it's just that the people who practice it don't know it. They think they're Christian.

[Friend of Sonic]

Yes, Satanism is highly practiced, it's just that the people who practice it don't know it. They think they're Christian.
:lol:

[level1online]

Strawmen much? Did any of these groups have significant, if any, sway over public discourse?

They didn't need to have sway over public discourse, all they needed was access to one or two prominent aristocratic individuals.

A single prominent individual can influence tens of thousands of people.

Yes, Satanism is highly practiced, it's just that the people who practice it don't know it. They think they're Christian.

:applause::applause::applause::applause:

SOMEBODY GETS IT!!!

[camoor]

Also, I've noticed that a few of you guys on this forum share somewhat similar ideals with luciferians. I don't think it's on purpose though, that's why I've never brought it up. It's that whole, "Do whatever you want, as long as no one gets hurt" mentality. Also, with certain views in concern to science, nature, and politics.

I think you're confusing many viewpoints.

I believe you probably were truly refering to "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law". It's not Satanic because it's not said in a Judeo-Christian context.

This is different from "An it harm none do what ye will." which is Wicca (AFAIK the closest philosophy to what you say above) or "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" which is supposed to be Christianity.

[cochesecochese]

They didn't need to have sway over public discourse, all they needed was access to one or two prominent aristocratic individuals.

A single prominent individual can influence tens of thousands of people.

Uh...comparative drops in the bucket when there are 6 billion others. Do you really believe that any of your mentioned examples had or have the sway that any of the major religions do?

[dmaul1114]

Not to mention, people can hold views of "Do whatever you want, as long as no one gets hurt" etc. without having any belief in any higher power--be it god, satan, buddah or whatever.

As annoying as those posts are, I think I like level better when he just posts links, videos etc. rather than actually rambling on with his conspiracy nonsense.

[FloodsAreUponUS]

I hate it when people try and poke you down as a certain religion because of where a certain statement originated.

[XxFuRy2Xx]

First off, I watched Maher do an interview on CNN and he just came off as a total prick. It seemed as if he just wanted religion banned, and force everyone to think the way he does.

As for Magus, you say that one of the reasons you hate religious people is because they believe that they're right and you're wrong. Yet you seem to have no problem saying this:
However it wont stop me from seeing how childish and false their belief system is.You're pretty much doing the same thing you say you hate oh, so much.

Also, I think you need to drop the notion that religion is responsible for all of the world's ills. Even without religion countries would have fought wars over territory, power, resources or just sheer nationalism (us vs. them always works).

All you have to do is relax and continue to enjoy your life. If some religious person comes to you to talk about it, just say no thank you, and keep moving on. Let them get aggressive about it if they want to, they'll just end up looking like 'tards in front of everyone else and hurt their own cause.

[mykevermin]

Eh. Not really interested in the movie.

[tokitoki50]

I'll admit I didn't watch the trailer, but does Mahr interview any religious scholars or experts in his movie? If he doesn't, it kind of makes the movie pointless, because it's talking philosophy with a layman who isn't equipped to answer theological questions on the nature of god.

An example: Lots of people like football. They may be able to tell you the basic rules ideas, and simple history behind football. They could practice and play some basic football, but that doesn't make them an expert in football.

I finished my college degree with a minor in philosophy where I primarily studied philosophy of religion and metaphysics. Questions like "Why is faith good?" and simple questions about the nature of god aren't necessarily answerable by studying religious texts because they are beyond the scope of those texts. Philosophers (and I'm sure many religious scholars and theologists) conduct thought experiments to try and answer these very questions in a consistent manner. To ask Joe religious Schmoo off the street seems somewhat unfair.

Personally I'm a physicalist, so I don't believe in any manner of god, but I'm not going to condemn someone who has come to a different conclusion than I have (so long as they've come to that conclusion in a consistent, rational manner).

[thrustbucket]

Ill openly admit I am not tolerant of religion.....but that alone makes me a hell of a lot more tolerant then religious people. Honestly religion is something that time and time again has been a blight.
Tell that to all the people in third world countries, or American disasters in the south, receiving far more aid than our governments blank checks provide.

Most major wars and genocides had at least SOMETHING to do with some religious aspect.
And I think it would be more accurate to say that most wars and genocides had something to do with intolerance. Maybe religion isn't the problem, it's intolerance in general?

Then there is the fact that in modern times you look at religion and for every rational person there are 50 others out there that believe stupid shit like gays marrying will be the downfall of the world. Even those that dont often still focus on issues like abortion even though we have world fucking poverty starving people that are already born to death.
Again, my main issue with you is you seem to be willfully ignorant of all the good charitable stuff religions do for those impoverished people today. People like you seem hell-bent on only focusing on the negative. Well guess what? Using the filtered goggles you are using on religion, it would be great if you looked at the U.S government or U.N. with those goggles. Only focusing on the negative should make you want to burn D.C. to the ground with that level of passion.

Maher actually does know something about the issue. He was raised Catholic so he had at least 13 years of going to church every weekend. He also clearly understand much of the issue because he can quote various things from the bible. I am not saying he is the best source, he is far from it(Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitches are the real smart guys)......
If what you say is true, then Maher is clearly, in most of his statements about religion, just trying to be an antagonizing ass. Which makes him even less appealing.
Oh and Dawkins is an expert on Atheism, not religion.

Again not saying the guy is an amazing human that I worship or anything, just that iv seen him get bashed her and in all fairness he is far better then people like Micheal Moore, O Riely and Hanity. But hey as per usual if you want to ASSume(hehe)things about me even though unlike you my words dont imply such. Go ahead.
Sorry if I assumed anything. I try not to.
Personally, all those people you list, including Maher, are in the same category for me. Blowhards.

Finally you talk about him with mormons as an example which just isnt true. He actually brought up numerous mormon beliefs such as the magical underwear thing and Blacks being a cursed race. And you can act like these are just things from the past and they arnt relevant but they are for 2 core reasons. First off even if all mormons dont follow polygamy or other goofy things like magic underwear many still do. Second and just as important be it with Mormons, Christians or any other religion even if they dont believe in fantastical shit like turning water into whine or magical under pants they believe other things from those religions and thus are cherry picking.
You clearly don't know anything about Mormons.
1) Polygamy is a sin. You can't practice polygamy and be a member of the church. They will excommunicate you.
2) Who cares about their underwear? How is that relevant or affecting anyone?

Why does what they believe make them free game to despise? That's what I don't get.

Cherry picking is a big problem with modern religion. People call themselves of this faith or that faith.....but when it comes down to it they just believe certain core principles and wish to disgard the rest. lets use Christians as an example because there are many of these modern day Christians that like to claim they are Christian but simply dont "take the bible as a literal translation". What this means is that you can call yourself Christian and believe that a man named Christ walked the earth performing great acts and then was killed and resurrected. However you dont have to go to church on Sunday nor tithe all of a sudden because those are not parts of the bible that should be taken literally.
So let me get this straight - If you don't take the Bible literally, but call yourself a Christian, you are a hypocrite?

The beauty of religion is personal interpretation, which I think is something you either ignore or totally fail to understand. Most modern religions are all very much about personal interpretation, and less about follow the leader.

Its just bull shit. Final thing ill say in this long post which at this point is more of a rant is that I also cannot be tolerant of Religion because Religion in and of itself cannot be tolerant of me. Religious people at their core have a belief that they have found an answer to the meaning of life and death and that if you dont share it your wrong. Even when religious people are fucking nice about it their still condescending and believe so whole heartedly that they have the answer that I must be fucking wrong. Look at the lady below as an example.
So all religious people automatically think you are wrong and they are right, thus better than you? I admit that is a problem with many religious people, but not all are like that, and many are far more tolerant and open minded than you give them credit for. Furthermore, most religions consider it a sin to "judge" or think themselves better than someone else. So when/if you really have proof that someone thinks they are better than you for believing the truth, they are also sinning according to their religion.

Say what you want, I can be tolerant of almost anything. If your gay no problem! If you want to be a polygamist, no problem! If you want to dye your ass hair then braid it to your nose hair, no problem! If you want to believe goblins come in your room at night and blow you, no problem!
But apparently if they wear different underwear, you have a problem. Or you wouldn't have brought it up as a valid persecution point.

I'd like a number here. Or some examples. Magus, sure. Maybe lilboo, depending on how you look at some of his statements? Maybe... I dunno, Hex? I can't remember, and he hardly "frequents" this forum (unless you mean CAG in general).
Yes, Magus, maybe lilboo, I don't know about Hex. Dr Mario Kart, for sure. I think it was either Camoor or Spazx, in another thread, that left me with that impression as well.

But usually it isn't just the daily posters like above. Whenever the topic of religion, abortion, or homosexuality comes up, there are several CAG's that come out of the woodwork that you don't often see with a lot to say, which you'll probably see in this thread. I call them the "drive by's".

[MSI Magus]

I do believe it is being practiced very heavily, but most don't recognize it. One term used to describe it is "Hidden in plain sight."

I used to think satanism was laughable, simply about teenagers with black clothes, pentagrams, and sacrificing small animals. It actually goes way deeper than that. There's an entire philosophy and lingo that goes along with it. The symbols & trademarks of this religion have become so interwoven into our society, that most don't even recognize it when it's slapping them across the face while watching TV.

Also, I've noticed that a few of you guys on this forum share somewhat similar ideals with luciferians. I don't think it's on purpose though, that's why I've never brought it up. It's that whole, "Do whatever you want, as long as no one gets hurt" mentality. Also, with certain views in concern to science, nature, and politics.


Oh really? Then whats Osama Bin Laden? isn't he an extreme example of his religion?

What about Sarah Palin, isn't she an extreme example of her religion?

----
----

anyways,
You ever see those spots on TV right around the time of Memorial Day? Y'know the ones that talk about our troops paying "the ultimate sacrifice" ?
Man, if only some of you guys knew what that really meant.




I disagree, people need to get educated on the "evil" religions as well, so when it subtly starts infiltrating the "good" religions people can recognize it.

So when some random church pastor spews shit like "This war is God's will" the immediate knee jerk reaction will be "NO IT"S NOT, BITCH!" and storm out the church.

Anyways, I wonder if Bill Maher will talk about 501c3.



1. You sound paranoid as shit with all this its right in front of you stuff. Either that or like the crazy uber Christians that are such damn problems(are you Christian btw?)

2. No people like Sarah Palin and Bin Laden are not that uncommon. The point is that people like Crowly are not every day people. Not many people practice satanism and those that do do not openly rise to power or incite the people. People like bin laden and palin are a freaking dime a dozen. There are shit loads of Palins and Bushes in churches all over the nation and in power and there are people by the 100s blowing themselves up for bin ladens. Show me evidence of Satanists running rampant. Even if they are your prooving my fucking point that religion is a problem. My whole point in my first post to you was that Satanism is an obviously fucked up religion where as people think Christians are the "good guys" as you obviously do when in reality they are not in principle just as screwed up as Satanists.....but end up doing stuff just as screwed up in the name of religion.

3. Its stupid as shit to claim that the bad things happaning in good religions are just evil religion infiltrating that religion. Religion is religion is religion and my whole freaking point is that in the name of religion people do stupid stuff. Say all you want that its satanists but Christians not in the name of Satan or not because they have been infiltrated do stuff like as you said claim God sent them the Iraq war. You are picking and choosing the good and the bad to suit your argument(my guess is because your probally a Christian and you want to believe the millions of fucked up wars and massacres and other things your relgiion has done...was really not your own fault).

To simplify and sum up it doesnt matter if its in the name of satanism or Christianity its all religion. People do stupid stuff in the name of religion because religion is evil and messed up when organized. And its extreamly childish that basically anything that anything any Christian does thats wrong you say AHAH! Satanism or atleast satanic principles.

[MSI Magus]

First off, I watched Maher do an interview on CNN and he just came off as a total prick. It seemed as if he just wanted religion banned, and force everyone to think the way he does.

As for Magus, you say that one of the reasons you hate religious people is because they believe that they're right and you're wrong. Yet you seem to have no problem saying this:
You're pretty much doing the same thing you say you hate oh, so much.

Also, I think you need to drop the notion that religion is responsible for all of the world's ills. Even without religion countries would have fought wars over territory, power, resources or just sheer nationalism (us vs. them always works).

All you have to do is relax and continue to enjoy your life. If some religious person comes to you to talk about it, just say no thank you, and keep moving on. Let them get aggressive about it if they want to, they'll just end up looking like 'tards in front of everyone else and hurt their own cause.

Ummmmmmm try again. I am not saying its childish because its not what I believe in. I am saying its childish and easy to see through because the bible itself is so full of holes, contradictions and has been mistranslated and re translated so many damn times that it holds no credibility anymore. As I said im agnostic so I don't claim to have any of the answers and frankly I don't give a damn if someone believes something other then what I do. My problem again is with those that claim to know the answers and if you claim it because of something as disprooven as the bible then your a fucking moron. I mean for Christs sake Christians dont even celebrate Christmas in the right month......worse yet most of them really believe its Christs birthday when reality is that historians and scholars have shown not only that he was born on a different day but also that Christmas was moved to fall in line with the Pagan Winter Solstices to try and draw people away.

As for thinking religion is responsible for all the worlds ills. Again read my posts.....people keep taking my posts to the utmost extremes and ignoring other things iv said. I dont feel its responsible for all the worlds ills. However I do think it claims a very large share of them. There have been wars that had nothing to do with religion(for instance i cant think of how religion played a role in Vietnam) and wars that had little to do with religion. There are mass killings by men with no religion such as Ted Bundy and there are natural disasters and all sorts of other ills. I just feel that Religion takes up a very large portion of the blame for mans ills and it also tends to just be for the ignorant by and large.

Thrust I read part of your post and then stopped part way through. You talk about others like me and myke making assumptions of your posts all the time but what we are doing is not making assumptions we are following word for word what you say. When you say something like Global warming is questioned by scientists the world over then give links to sites that are from ultra conservative sites that post little to no facts.....its easy to believe that you dont believe in global warming or atleast question it for the wrong reasons. Meanwhile here again you show how you jump to a conclusion. You assume that just because I dislike religon im ignorant of the good things that religion does which is just a stupid assumption to make and one you only make because of a dislike for me. I dont assume that just because you question global warming that you must be ignorant of every scientific matter so dont assume that just because I have an issue with religion that I am ignorant to every facet other then the negative. Yes religious groups over the years have given tons of time, money and other resources to feeding the world, fighting aids and even on modern issues like global warming.

The problem is that first off I feel that the good they have down is outweighed by all of the hiding of child molestation by priests and wars. Second you fail to mention that much of this charity work isnt done out of the goodness of their hearts its done to convert the heathens. Finding a Christian feeding the poor in Africa without passing out bibles is harder then finding a wrestler that doesnt own a pair of spandex shorts. Third this ignores the fact that while one could argue that organized religion that makes a claim of knowing the answer to life/death automatically leads to conflict and evil. You cannot make the argument that a lack of religion leads to a lack of charity because we have seen time and time again people like Bill Gates step up and bitch slap the hell out of that theory by donating shitloads of money and time. So your argument as usual is null.

As I have said guys, this one is kinda hard to argue if your on the religious side. Its just a fact that religion is involved in some of the most evil and fucked up stuff ever in history, its a fact that the bible has alot of issues and that Christians throughout history have been ignorant to this and thus used. Meanwhile as I said you cant argue that a lack of religion leads to bad things and no offense but the charity angle(or should I say ASSumption since you like that word so much)was just horrid.

[thrustbucket]

Ummmmmmm try again. I am not saying its childish because its not what I believe in. I am saying its childish and easy to see through because the bible itself is so full of holes, contradictions and has been mistranslated and re translated so many damn times that it holds no credibility anymore.
I actually also believe everything you said up to this point.

Thrust I read part of your post and then stopped part way through.
That's a shame. I read all of your posts addressed to me, no matter how much they mischaracterize what I said. I guess your trying hard to convince me you aren't worth responding to.

You talk about others like me and myke making assumptions of your posts all the time but what we are doing is not making assumptions we are following word for word what you say. When you say something like Global warming is questioned by scientists the world over then give links to sites that are from ultra conservative sites that post little to no facts.....
Everyone that's well read on the subject knows that anthromorphic causes for catastrophic climate change is not 100% fact. I'm sorry if you don't know that, and I'm sorry my links weren't good enough. Anyone that believes it is 100% fact is a tool. If you were open minded enough, you'd find dozens of scientists and scholars that also know this through google. But I won't bother spending so much time trying to research anything for you anymore, since you admit you can't finish my posts, what's the point? I'll be surprised if you made it this far.

Meanwhile here again you show how you jump to a conclusion. You assume that just because I dislike religon im ignorant of the good things that religion does which is just a stupid assumption to make and one you only make because of a dislike for me.
I wasn't trying to assume that, but since I've never seen you once acknowledge good things about religion in several long posts against it, you'll forgive me of this mistake, I hope. Thanks for clearing it up.


I dont assume that just because you question global warming that you must be ignorant of every scientific matter so dont assume that just because I have an issue with religion that I am ignorant to every facet other then the negative.
Just to be clear, I question Anthromorphic sources altering the climate more so than even the sun (which is behaving very abnormal lately), not global warming itself.

The problem is that first off I feel that the good they have down is outweighed by all of the hiding of child molestation by priests and wars.
That's your choice, to see that. You're entitled to it.

Second you fail to mention that much of this charity work isnt done out of the goodness of their hearts its done to convert the heathens. Finding a Christian feeding the poor in Africa without passing out bibles is harder then finding a wrestler that doesnt own a pair of spandex shorts.
Do you really think that alternative motives are unique to only Religious charities? Again, if you want to be upset about alternative motives, then you should be against pretty much all charity - especially our own governments. But "handing out bibles" is not terribly harmful compared to other charity agendas.

Third this ignores the fact that while one could argue that organized religion that makes a claim of knowing the answer to life/death automatically leads to conflict and evil. You cannot make the argument that a lack of religion leads to a lack of charity because we have seen time and time again people like Bill Gates step up and bitch slap the hell out of that theory by donating shitloads of money and time. So your argument as usual is null.
I don't know anyone that's tried to make that argument.
You are honestly convinced that bill gates is entirely without a personal agenda in his charity?

As I have said guys, this one is kinda hard to argue if your on the religious side.
The only side I'm on is the side of tolerance for different beliefs. I endorse no religion. But I do take issue with people that make it sound as if it's fact that society would be better off ridding the world of something as complicated as religion (referring to dr mario kart).


Its just a fact that religion is involved in some of the most evil and fucked up stuff ever in history,
One of many things. If I want to go identifying single simplicities to pin on mass geonicidal behavior, you could do the same thing for a myriad of things, like science (but you would no doubt try to argue more good has come of science, and we are back at square 1)

its a fact that the bible has alot of issues and that Christians throughout history have been ignorant to this and thus used.
That's true. But still not reason to have such outward disgust for them, is it?

Meanwhile as I said you cant argue that a lack of religion leads to bad things and no offense but the charity angle(or should I say ASSumption since you like that word so much)was just horrid.
I wouldn't try to argue that, who was?

Anyway, if you don't have the common decency to return the courtesy of at least pretending you read another CAG's full response to you, perhaps you should put that CAG on ignore, and stick with posts that rub you in the ways you prefer.

[Unickuta]

What I think is that at best I'm a member of faith that will bring me into the afterlife and that I'm part of something greater than myself. At worst, I'm following the ideals of a man who had a good heart and had some pretty groundbreaking ideas of how to live your life and treat other people well.

I'm a church-attending Catholic, but I realize my church has done some really fucked up things in the past. But at the same time, the Church has done some extroardinarily good things (Christianizing Mexico brought down a culture of human sacrifice). Don't forget that very often leaders used Catholicism as an excuse to do bad things (i.e. the Inquisition) and that they more or less annointed themselves prophets and whatnot which is total bullshit.

But why I love Catholicism so much is because of the education I am recieving ATM. I attend a Jesuit high school in New York City, and I can tell you that my professors - most of whom are priests - are some of the genuinely most nice, open to new ideas (my bio teacher said creationism was pseudoscience, and believes it too) people I've ever met. I've learned so much more there than I ever did at public school, and I'm going to be grateful to them for the rest of my life.

While I understand your opinions about Catholicism - I dislike the Carmelites probably more than you guys do - you have to meet a Jesuit priest before you make your judgement on us Catholics. For these are the people that are teaching us students during the day and helping out the homeless during the nighttime. They're some of the friendliest, most dedicated, intellectual people that you'll ever meet.

In short, I love Catholicism and Jesus and God with all my heart, and thank the latter two every night for the wonderful oppurtunities he is giving me.

EDIT: And as to the New Testament, it was pretty much written 40-70 years after the crucifixion, some of the books used to convert people. Hell, John writes in really vague, stoner-esque statements.

We don't acknowledge the New Testament as fact. It's not, some books contradict each other. But they were stil written very soon after the crucifixion, and are not totally fiction. Jesus was a well-known man in his time, and there were more than enough people to give testimony, and even more oral history. Any Catholic who says that they believe everything in the Bible probably hasn't read it.

[JolietJake]

I'm thinking of seeing this, assuming it's playing around here.

I do want to remind everyone that Maher is a comedian, not everything he says can be taken seriously. Like all comedians, he sometimes picks out things about people for the sake of comedy. He's also said that he can understand why some people would need religion, some people have such awful lives that they need something to believe in. I think it's the other people who have good lives and are still religious that he doesn't understand.

[The Crotch]

Yes, Magus, maybe lilboo, I don't know about Hex. Dr Mario Kart, for sure. I think it was either Camoor or Spazx, in another thread, that left me with that impression as well.
DMK's a surprise, as he doesn't spend much time here. I'm very surprised to see Camoor on there, and I really doubt Spaz would qualify.

I think - not sure, but I think - Hex is what you're thinking of on the whole "drive-by" thing.

[SpazX]

If you really wanna see how much I hate religion you can look up the discussions I've had with daroga about the Bible. That's where all my hate came out...

[The Crotch]

Can't say I recall those. Which is weird, because I was probably in them.

[SpazX]

It was in the middle of some other thread. I'll search my name with "Bible"...

Here: http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158115

I feel like there were other ones though.

[The Crotch]

Yeah, I remember the thread, just not specifics of anything that you said in it.

[camoor]

What I think is that at best I'm a member of faith that will bring me into the afterlife and that I'm part of something greater than myself. At worst, I'm following the ideals of a man who had a good heart and had some pretty groundbreaking ideas of how to live your life and treat other people well.

Well, he did have groundbreaking ideals all right. Among others...

Don’t imagine that I came to bring peace on earth! No, rather a sword lf you love your father, mother, sister, brother, more than me, you are not worthy of being mine.
- Jesus
Matthew 10:34

Yet when L Ron Hubbard does this all of a sudden it's a bad thing :lol:

[SpazX]

Yeah, I remember the thread, just not specifics of anything that you said in it.

Oh, well...read up....there'll be a test....in the afterlife.

[The Crotch]

Hmm. Considering how often I've opened up my biology and sociology texts so far this year, I think I'm fucked.

[level1online]

I think you're confusing many viewpoints.

I believe you probably were truly refering to "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law". It's not Satanic because it's not said in a Judeo-Christian context.

This is different from "An it harm none do what ye will." which is Wicca (AFAIK the closest philosophy to what you say above) or "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" which is supposed to be Christianity.

Not to mention, people can hold views of "Do whatever you want, as long as no one gets hurt" etc. without having any belief in any higher power--be it god, satan, buddah or whatever.


yeah, i did get it confused.

My understanding of it all was this: When you have a self-serving philosophy, you are in a way still serving Satan, either knowingly or unknowingly.

---

I heard that from one of those "Purpose-Driven Church" pastors. From what he explained, the purpose driven philosophy is to perform actions according to "God's will" & follow the examples of Jesus in the bible. And when you don't do that, you are honoring evil, doing evil's will.

---

But I talked to another pastor, who described to me the dangers of that "purpose-driven" mindset. The problem is, who do you let define what is "God's will" ? The bible or the pastor?

He described, how in the hands of a misled pastor, the bible can be taken out of context and used to manipulate folks into actions that are not "God's will"

And from my understanding, that's how you wind up with a misled Christian like Sarah Palin.

As far as my whole Satanism rant goes, just forget about it. My whole point was, GW is not a Christian. He worships a different higher being. Remember, Christians don't lay in coffins naked, Christians don't engage in homo-erotic activities in the White House after hours, Christians don't join secret societies like Skull & Bones... Point is, GW has done all that stuff. It's documented (Washington Times, 1989). GW is far, very faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar, from being labeled merely a "misled Christian." or "Christian fundamentalist"

---

Anyways, I wonder if the film will mention pastor Jeremiah Wright?

[Khondor]

What I think is that at best I'm a member of faith that will bring me into the afterlife and that I'm part of something greater than myself. At worst, I'm following the ideals of a man who had a good heart and had some pretty groundbreaking ideas of how to live your life and treat other people well.
.



:applause:

[MSI Magus]

Everyone that's well read on the subject knows that anthromorphic causes for catastrophic climate change is not 100% fact. I'm sorry if you don't know that, and I'm sorry my links weren't good enough. Anyone that believes it is 100% fact is a tool. If you were open minded enough, you'd find dozens of scientists and scholars that also know this through google. But I won't bother spending so much time trying to research anything for you anymore, since you admit you can't finish my posts, what's the point? I'll be surprised if you made it this far.

This is why I stop reading your posts and why I stopped reading this ones. You as I said not only make assumptions of me and what I believe......but do so to the extreme. I have never once said that its a 100% prooven fact. In fact I believe iv stated numerous times that global warming is something that isnt prooven but that your sources were just jokes(which is another reason why I tend to let most of what you say go, because you ignore stuff like this in order to keep an argument going). Im an agnostic by nature and not just when it comes to religion. I take an agnostic approach to everything questioning things and not accepting them as true unless not only is knowledge of the issue overwhelming but its also within my grasp. Not just global warming but many other things like evolution I believe are not 100% proven and there is still a debate to be had. However at the same time I believe that most of the science is in the favor of these 2 things and that 95% of what iv read thats against it is a joke so it probably either is true or some altered form of the theory probably(again thats a key word!)is true. Im open to debate, and I am always interested in reading on the other sides views........just not from stupid links like the ones you use.

level1online what you dont seem to realize is your still just following other peoples words and advice not your own. Why not drop the bible and the Christian thing and simply live your life to the best of your abilty. Do good things for others, be kind(rewind!)and live your life in the most Christ like way possible. If you die and there is a God and he punishes you for not believing in him or following his ways after living a life like that then that God isnt worth believing in anyways(hell a God like that you should spit at his feet).

Unickuta I dont think we will agree on alot, but you seem to have a good head on your shoulders and are willing to see the faults of your church and religion while at the same time paving your own path. While I do feel this is cherry picking I can respect your views here and that as I said you seem to have a good head on your shoulders that your actually using, so I can easily respect your views.

[XxFuRy2Xx]

Ummmmmmm try again. I am not saying its childish because its not what I believe in. I am saying its childish and easy to see through because the bible itself is so full of holes, contradictions and has been mistranslated and re translated so many damn times that it holds no credibility anymore. As I said im agnostic so I don't claim to have any of the answers and frankly I don't give a damn if someone believes something other then what I do. My problem again is with those that claim to know the answers and if you claim it because of something as disprooven as the bible then your a fucking moron. I mean for Christs sake Christians dont even celebrate Christmas in the right month......worse yet most of them really believe its Christs birthday when reality is that historians and scholars have shown not only that he was born on a different day but also that Christmas was moved to fall in line with the Pagan Winter Solstices to try and draw people away.

As for thinking religion is responsible for all the worlds ills. Again read my posts.....people keep taking my posts to the utmost extremes and ignoring other things iv said. I dont feel its responsible for all the worlds ills. However I do think it claims a very large share of them. There have been wars that had nothing to do with religion(for instance i cant think of how religion played a role in Vietnam) and wars that had little to do with religion. There are mass killings by men with no religion such as Ted Bundy and there are natural disasters and all sorts of other ills. I just feel that Religion takes up a very large portion of the blame for mans ills and it also tends to just be for the ignorant by and large.
1. I agree with you on the Christmas thing. Christmas is pretty much a commercial thing nowadays.

2. The bible has been translated and re-translated, but the book is supposed to be a collection of stories and lessons to help guide people through life, not to be taken literally.

3. I still disagree with the notion of Religion being the blame for "most" of the bad stuff. Mainly because religion (or at least most of them) have nothing in there about being corrupt or causing damage to the environment or your fellow man. It's simply evil douchbags misusing religion. But rest assured, if religion were gone they'd find something else to misuse.

4. Religion isn't simply for the ignorant. Even Bill Maher acknowledged that in an interview with CNN. He said there were plenty of intelligent people who are religious. I think that stating that it's just something ignorant people do, is an ignorant statement.

[MSI Magus]

1. I agree with you on the Christmas thing. Christmas is pretty much a commercial thing nowadays.

2. The bible has been translated and re-translated, but the book is supposed to be a collection of stories and lessons to help guide people through life, not to be taken literally.

3. I still disagree with the notion of Religion being the blame for "most" of the bad stuff. Mainly because religion (or at least most of them) have nothing in there about being corrupt or causing damage to the environment or your fellow man. It's simply evil douchbags misusing religion. But rest assured, if religion were gone they'd find something else to misuse.

4. Religion isn't simply for the ignorant. Even Bill Maher acknowledged that in an interview with CNN. He said there were plenty of intelligent people who are religious. I think that stating that it's just something ignorant people do, is an ignorant statement.

1. And again not even in the right fucking season.

2. Disagree and agree. I agree that it is a book of stories that shouldnt be taken literally. But the problem is that that is ignoring the fact that most Christians DO take it literally. If people read the bible like Harry Potter thinking wow this is interesting and id like to be a better person like this guy that would be all fine and true. But people dont, they instead act as though Harry Potter was a real person who walked around smiting evil. Ummm excuse me they act like Jesus was.

3. True but the evil duesches use Religion as a tool to control weak minded men. You can argue all you want that if religion wasn't around they would find another way to do it. But it doesnt change that those following religion are easily susceptible and do stupid shit in the name of their religion with or without the guiding of evil men. Try to otherwise explain away things that have been done to gays or those seeking abortion. These are common people and so are their leaders.

4. True. But religion turns the enlightened into fools largely. Again look at the clip I showed earlier....that woman seemed like a perfectly intelligent person....yet she couldn't even see how it could be considered condescending to imply that you have an answer someone else doesn't. This problem arises time and again with even the most brilliant of people who follow religion. They speak eloquently and understand some of the most complex things in the world.....yet turn into Cherry pickers and stutters when they try and explain their beliefs because they know they are illogical. A belief in a God is not logical or illogical, but a belief in the current big 3 religions is a joke.

[thrustbucket]

This is why I stop reading your posts and why I stopped reading this ones. You as I said not only make assumptions of me and what I believe......but do so to the extreme. I have never once said that its a 100% prooven fact. In fact I believe iv stated numerous times that global warming is something that isnt prooven but that your sources were just jokes(which is another reason why I tend to let most of what you say go, because you ignore stuff like this in order to keep an argument going). Im an agnostic by nature and not just when it comes to religion. I take an agnostic approach to everything questioning things and not accepting them as true unless not only is knowledge of the issue overwhelming but its also within my grasp. Not just global warming but many other things like evolution I believe are not 100% proven and there is still a debate to be had. However at the same time I believe that most of the science is in the favor of these 2 things and that 95% of what iv read thats against it is a joke so it probably either is true or some altered form of the theory probably(again thats a key word!)is true. Im open to debate, and I am always interested in reading on the other sides views........just not from stupid links like the ones you use.

That's the problem. From that argument, I recall coming to an agreement about it not being 100% fact, yet you have brought up the ridiculousness of me being a global warming denier several times since, in discussions it has nothing to do with, like some kind of sore bully that can't let go of the past, and never could comprehend that we agreed.

I'm more convinced now than ever. You are either Bill O'reilly's secret love child or all those nail polish fumes are taking their toll.

What I find the real nail in the coffin though: You spend paragraphs and paragraphs deriding an entire segment of society. The biggest segment, in fact; for not being open enough to other ideas. For being close minded. You express your disgust for religious people for believing in stupid things and being unable to listen to others. Well guess what you have just proven you are like? That's two posts (of mine, that we know of) that you don't have the courtesy to read and respond to - out of the exact same elitist, hollier than though, judging, vitriol you hate religion for.

Post pages and pages of your own opinion, but don't have the respect, fortitude, or moral character to read responses or listen to other views. That remind you of anyone? Generally, people like that in society get ignored by anyone important in society, just fyi.

That makes you the biggest hypocrite on these boards, and puts you officially in the same lonesome category as the drive by antagonizer/nothing useful to say Msut77.

[camoor]

yeah, i did get it confused.

My understanding of it all was this: When you have a self-serving philosophy, you are in a way still serving Satan, either knowingly or unknowingly.

---

I heard that from one of those "Purpose-Driven Church" pastors. From what he explained, the purpose driven philosophy is to perform actions according to "God's will" & follow the examples of Jesus in the bible. And when you don't do that, you are honoring evil, doing evil's will.

---

But I talked to another pastor, who described to me the dangers of that "purpose-driven" mindset. The problem is, who do you let define what is "God's will" ? The bible or the pastor?

He described, how in the hands of a misled pastor, the bible can be taken out of context and used to manipulate folks into actions that are not "God's will"

And from my understanding, that's how you wind up with a misled Christian like Sarah Palin.

Oh Level1. I expected better of you.

Are you really going to let yourself get brainwashed like that? All that freedom fighter talk, and then we get "But then this one pastor said this. But then the other pastor said that..." Don't be such a sheep.

[Friend of Sonic]

It was in the middle of some other thread. I'll search my name with "Bible"...

Here: http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158115

I feel like there were other ones though.
I STARTED THAT THREAD!!! It started out as a semi-joke, but it turned into some really interesting discussion. And it lasted forever, too.

[The Crotch]

Semi-joke... sure...

[Friend of Sonic]

Semi-joke... sure...
Really, it was. The set of circumstances were humorous in how coincidental they were and also how silly and random they were.
BTW, I'm still an Atheist.

[trq]

I really take no issue with a movie bashing religion. There is a lot to bash. But when I've seen Mahr poking fun of religion in the past, he approaches everything from a very simplistic view that makes him look like a moron. If you are going to make fun of something, at least become educated enough on it to do so.

Agreed. You know I have no love for *any* kind of contra-factual thought systems, but Maher just goes after low hanging fruit. It's lazy and it serves no purpose. Every group has its nutjobs, so getting them on film accomplishes little. There are much better ways to thoroughly and systematically point out dangerous foolishness, but that's an undertaking a bit above Maher's intellectual pay-grade. In short: I'll be skipping this one.

How did I know the first thing he would show in that trailer is George W. Bush and his association with Christianity?

I've said it once and I'll say it again, GW is not Christian, he's a Luciferian. He worships, the light-bearer. You judge a man by his actions.

So the question goes, in this film will Bill Maher be interviewing any leaders from the Church of Lucifer or Church of Satan?

Will he mention that at one point in history, the #2 highest selling religious book right behind the bible was the Satanic Bible?

Will he talk about Anton Lavey? Aleister Crowley? Human Sacrifice? Pagan Symbolism? Mystery Religions? etc? etc? etc?

C'mon. You can admit it. Just to me. It'll be our secret. You're a joke account, right?

[The Crotch]

BTW, I'm still an Atheist.
God dammit! Do you know how long it took me to get Daroga to stop capitalizing that "a"?

[Friend of Sonic]

God dammit! Do you know how long it took me to get Daroga to stop capitalizing that "a"?
Oh yes, I know. And I'm about to reverse all of the work you've done.

[The Crotch]

We shall see, Grasshopper.

[DJSteel]

I don't despise religion.. I despise how it's pushed to the masses.. Also it's not good bedfellows with Science and Politics.

[MSI Magus]

I don't despise religion.. I despise how it's pushed to the masses.. Also it's not good bedfellows with Science and Politics.

To quote Marilyn Manson of all people I never really hated the one true God, but the God of the people I hated.

[detectiveconan16]

I despise religion when it makes people act like friggin' idiots, one way or the other.
I'm happy that it teaches people how to act sensibly in the fabric of society and at home.

I wonder if Maher preached the story of how the Mormons came to be, just like he did with the Scientology stuff.

[camoor]

I wonder if Maher preached the story of how the Mormons came to be, just like he did with the Scientology stuff.

Why wouldn't he? They are both juicy targets.

[level1online]

Oh Level1. I expected better of you.

Are you really going to let yourself get brainwashed like that? All that freedom fighter talk, and then we get "But then this one pastor said this. But then the other pastor said that..." Don't be such a sheep.

i should have clarified, i never said i was a believer of either philosophy. all i did was extract a bit of information from one guy, then extracted some other information from another guy.

i'll admit, to get that information, i did have to play along.... baaaaaaaaaaaaaah! :D




C'mon. You can admit it. Just to me. It'll be our secret. You're a joke account, right?

Show me a picture of GW taking communion and i'll admit it.

[The Crotch]

C'mon. You can admit it. Just to me. It'll be our secret. You're a joke account, right?I consider myself better than most at pointing out trolls and joke accounts, but I swing back-and-forth on Level1. Right now I'm leaning towards joke.

[XxFuRy2Xx]

1. And again not even in the right fucking season.

2. Disagree and agree. I agree that it is a book of stories that shouldnt be taken literally. But the problem is that that is ignoring the fact that most Christians DO take it literally. If people read the bible like Harry Potter thinking wow this is interesting and id like to be a better person like this guy that would be all fine and true. But people dont, they instead act as though Harry Potter was a real person who walked around smiting evil. Ummm excuse me they act like Jesus was.

3. True but the evil duesches use Religion as a tool to control weak minded men. You can argue all you want that if religion wasn't around they would find another way to do it. But it doesnt change that those following religion are easily susceptible and do stupid shit in the name of their religion with or without the guiding of evil men. Try to otherwise explain away things that have been done to gays or those seeking abortion. These are common people and so are their leaders.

4. True. But religion turns the enlightened into fools largely. Again look at the clip I showed earlier....that woman seemed like a perfectly intelligent person....yet she couldn't even see how it could be considered condescending to imply that you have an answer someone else doesn't. This problem arises time and again with even the most brilliant of people who follow religion. They speak eloquently and understand some of the most complex things in the world.....yet turn into Cherry pickers and stutters when they try and explain their beliefs because they know they are illogical. A belief in a God is not logical or illogical, but a belief in the current big 3 religions is a joke.1. Actually, I think there is pretty good archaeological evidence that Jesus was in fact real. This is most likely a debated issue amongst historians (simply because of the subject matter), but at least the guy Jesus isn't a total lie.

2. I think that you should have clarified from the beginning that your problem is with the big 3, not religion in general. If you did, then my bad, It's a bit hard to read some of your longer posts.

3. I don't think it's possible for the susceptible people to do silly things in the name of religion without someone evil pulling the strings, or warping their minds. Again, I'm pretty sure that most religions (including the big 3) are really based around good, not evil.

4. As for the "brilliant" ones you talk about, they mustn't be that smart if all they can do is cherry pick stuff.

[camoor]

i should have clarified, i never said i was a believer of either philosophy. all i did was extract a bit of information from one guy, then extracted some other information from another guy.

i'll admit, to get that information, i did have to play along.... baaaaaaaaaaaaaah! :D

That's more like it! :D

But what makes you think Pastors have any sort of valid information about the spiritual? I'm just curious, because you have an innate distrust of politicians, but you trust the info from a guy who promises you a fairytale existence after death if you act the way he tells you to.

[level1online]

But what makes you think Pastors have any sort of valid information about the spiritual?

9 years of attending Catholic grade school. Our pastor was a very humble Irish fellow, had no car, lived in a small house on campus, & had no problem performing religious services for free.

edit: He had taken a vow of poverty & celibacy because of his beliefs, and he stuck to it. I really admired that. So I guess that's why whenever I meet other pastors, right off the bat, i give them the benefit of the doubt.



I'm just curious, because you have an innate distrust of politicians

The majority of my classmates at that school were gov't worker's or lawyer's children.

Let's just say, the fruit didn't fall too far from the tree.

[Friend of Sonic]

Well, I saw the movie. I thought it was well researched and it wasn't a movie filled with "WHY DOESN'T GOD KILL THE DEVIL LULZ" but rather legitimate questions in an attempt to show the irrationality in religion.
Of course, by far, I'm no expert in religion, so I went in there hoping to learn-- so I'll just have to trust it was fully researched. If not, I'm sure someone in the VS forum will bring up some points for me to ponder. ;)

[thrustbucket]

Well, I saw the movie. I thought it was well researched and it wasn't a movie filled with "WHY DOESN'T GOD KILL THE DEVIL LULZ" but rather legitimate questions in an attempt to show the irrationality in religion.
Of course, by far, I'm no expert in religion, so I went in there hoping to learn-- so I'll just have to trust it was fully researched. If not, I'm sure someone in the VS forum will bring up some points for me to ponder. ;)

Goona go see American Carol next, I wager?

....got to keep balance in the force, ya know?

[Friend of Sonic]

Goona go see American Carol next, I wager?

....got to keep balance in the force, ya know?
Nono. No.
No.
No. I understand what you're getting at, but no. Some credible source better tell me it's surprisingly well written before I go see that tripe.

[Purple Flames]

I saw the movie last night. I thought it was an excellent look at religion in today's world. However, I'm not really here to speak about the movie so much as I am about one scene near the beginning of the movie that stuck with me that really got me thinking.

Warning: minor spoiler and wall o' text ahead

Maher went to this small church in Railegh, NC and was just asking a few of the people at a bible study there why is was they believed what they believed. They couldn't seem to give him an honest answer that he couldn't counter with a logical point. However, at the end the group explained to him that they'd still believe in god and the bible, yet they would not judge him in his beliefs (or lack thereof). Maher then delivered what I feel to be the best line in the movie: "Thank you for being Christ-like and not Christian."

Now for the record let me just say that I am an atheist. I do not believe in the existence of a god, or do I believe that a man named Jesus Christ existed in history. However, I feel that the myth of Christ has some merit. Christ lived a very meek existence. He didn't have a permanent place of residence, he didn't have a lot of personal belongings (if any), and he didn't judge people on their vices. To sum it up, I think the character was a pretty upstanding guy.

Now, what do we see in today's world from a lot of Christians? Finger pointing and speaking of people burning in hell for all eternity for having different beliefs from them, nutjobs who use god's name to justify picketing dead soldier's funerals, people emptying out their last few nickels and dimes into the church collection plate while preachers and televangelists ride around in a brand-new Cadillac and dresses in $2000 suits and is adorned from head to toe in jewelry. This sort of behavior is about as un-Christ-like as you can get.

Jesus walked with the people. He didn't float over their heads and look down on them with contempt. Jesus hung out with thieves, prostitutes, and lepers because those were the people who could benefit from his teachings the most. He never said "Thou shalt go forth and hate $$$s/$$$$ers/etc". He said "Love thy neighbor as Thyself". He dressed himself in simple, hunble cloth, and as far as I know, he never asked for so much of a dime from anyone who followed him.

In closing, if there was anything that I learned from the movie is that people (myself included) could all stand to be a little more Christ-like in their lives, because he's a really good exaple of leading by example.

[thrustbucket]

Nono. No.
No.
No. I understand what you're getting at, but no. Some credible source better tell me it's surprisingly well written before I go see that tripe.

I tease.

But at least you all but admit one already was far more appealing to you than the other.

Making fun of religion > Making fun of liberals.

[camoor]

I saw the movie last night. I thought it was an excellent look at religion in today's world. However, I'm not really here to speak about the movie so much as I am about one scene near the beginning of the movie that stuck with me that really got me thinking.

Warning: minor spoiler and wall o' text ahead

Maher went to this small church in Railegh, NC and was just asking a few of the people at a bible study there why is was they believed what they believed. They couldn't seem to give him an honest answer that he couldn't counter with a logical point. However, at the end the group explained to him that they'd still believe in god and the bible, yet they would not judge him in his beliefs (or lack thereof). Maher then delivered what I feel to be the best line in the movie: "Thank you for being Christ-like and not Christian."

Now for the record let me just say that I am an atheist. I do not believe in the existence of a god, or do I believe that a man named Jesus Christ existed in history. However, I feel that the myth of Christ has some merit. Christ lived a very meek existence. He didn't have a permanent place of residence, he didn't have a lot of personal belongings (if any), and he didn't judge people on their vices. To sum it up, I think the character was a pretty upstanding guy.

Now, what do we see in today's world from a lot of Christians? Finger pointing and speaking of people burning in hell for all eternity for having different beliefs from them, nutjobs who use god's name to justify picketing dead soldier's funerals, people emptying out their last few nickels and dimes into the church collection plate while preachers and televangelists ride around in a brand-new Cadillac and dresses in $2000 suits and is adorned from head to toe in jewelry. This sort of behavior is about as un-Christ-like as you can get.

Jesus walked with the people. He didn't float over their heads and look down on them with contempt. Jesus hung out with thieves, prostitutes, and lepers because those were the people who could benefit from his teachings the most. He never said "Thou shalt go forth and hate $$$s/$$$$ers/etc". He said "Love thy neighbor as Thyself". He dressed himself in simple, hunble cloth, and as far as I know, he never asked for so much of a dime from anyone who followed him.

In closing, if there was anything that I learned from the movie is that people (myself included) could all stand to be a little more Christ-like in their lives, because he's a really good exaple of leading by example.

Or as Ghandi said:
I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

[camoor]

I tease.

But at least you all but admit one already was far more appealing to you than the other.

Making fun of religion > Making fun of liberals.

Oh come on, that American Carol movie looks like crap.

The Simpsons does a great job of making fun of liberal positions, so does "Bullshit!". If you want to find a movie of that calibur then maybe you're going to end up with half a point to make, but your last few posts have just been contrarian drivel.

[Friend of Sonic]

Maher went to this small church in Railegh, NC and was just asking a few of the people at a bible study there why is was they believed what they believed. They couldn't seem to give him an honest answer that he couldn't counter with a logical point. However, at the end the group explained to him that they'd still believe in god and the bible, yet they would not judge him in his beliefs (or lack thereof). Maher then delivered what I feel to be the best line in the movie: "Thank you for being Christ-like and not Christian."

Now for the record let me just say that I am an atheist. I do not believe in the existence of a god, or do I believe that a man named Jesus Christ existed in history. However, I feel that the myth of Christ has some merit. Christ lived a very meek existence. He didn't have a permanent place of residence, he didn't have a lot of personal belongings (if any), and he didn't judge people on their vices. To sum it up, I think the character was a pretty upstanding guy.

Now, what do we see in today's world from a lot of Christians? Finger pointing and speaking of people burning in hell for all eternity for having different beliefs from them, nutjobs who use god's name to justify picketing dead soldier's funerals, people emptying out their last few nickels and dimes into the church collection plate while preachers and televangelists ride around in a brand-new Cadillac and dresses in $2000 suits and is adorned from head to toe in jewelry. This sort of behavior is about as un-Christ-like as you can get.

Jesus walked with the people. He didn't float over their heads and look down on them with contempt. Jesus hung out with thieves, prostitutes, and lepers because those were the people who could benefit from his teachings the most. He never said "Thou shalt go forth and hate $$$s/$$$$ers/etc". He said "Love thy neighbor as Thyself". He dressed himself in simple, hunble cloth, and as far as I know, he never asked for so much of a dime from anyone who followed him.

In closing, if there was anything that I learned from the movie is that people (myself included) could all stand to be a little more Christ-like in their lives, because he's a really good exaple of leading by example.

Wall 'o Text approved. I agree with you.

[Koggit]

From most illogical to least

theism = atheism
agnosticism


Fact.

[thrustbucket]

Oh come on, that American Carol movie looks like crap.

The Simpsons does a great job of making fun of liberal positions, so does "Bullshit!". If you want to find a movie of that calibur then maybe you're going to end up with half a point to make, but your last few posts have just been contrarian drivel.

So let me get this straight: you thought the religulous trailer looked awesome, and the American Carol one looked like crap? Trailers are about all we have to go on.

At least Zuker has made such classics as Airplane. Now if truly independent critics come out and all say it sucks, then your own "drivel" will have substance.

[The Crotch]

From most illogical to least

theism = atheism
agnosticism


Fact.Um. Wha?

[Friend of Sonic]

At least Zuker has made such classics as Airplane. Now if truly independent critics come out and all say it sucks, then your own "drivel" will have substance.
Has made. Has made.

[Koggit]

I used to consider myself atheist. The more I learn, scientifically, the less confident I am in god's absence. I think "there's no god" and "there's a god" are equally irrational statements.

Life is mind boggling. Even the tiny details, like water expanding before it freezes (and being the only substance to do so) -- isn't that strange? We don't know why water does this, but we know if it didn't life would not exist on our planet. There are countless similar phenomena, simply too numerous to ignore, it's simply too amazing to rule out the possibility of a divine presence.


Even my education in math has made me realize atheism is irrational. Higher dimensions... have you ever read the book Flatland (http://www.amazon.com/Flatland-Romance-Dimensions-Penguin-Classics/dp/014043531X)? It has nothing to do with religion -- it's about "picturing" n-dimensional space -- it uses 1D and 2D analogs to reason through how we simply cannot understand 4D+. The way I think of n-dimensional space now is similar to how 2D or 3D graphs are viewed when a dimension is restricted. For example, if you imagine only seeing a 3-space graph as a function of time in two dimensions you'd just see an amorphous 2D curve. If you're viewing a sphere, it'll begin as a dot, increase to a circle with the same radius as the sphere, then go back to a dot. It can be compared between 1D/2D also -- if you view a 2-space curve in 1D as a function of time, it'll just be a dot moving along the path of the curve. You can think of 4-space as a 3-space function of time. Everything we're seeing, as time passes, is really just three dimensions of what's happening in 4-space. There's a lot that must exist, but we aren't aware of it, and have no way to perceive it.

Physics requires higher dimensions. We know for a fact there are at least four dimensions -- many physicists believe there are more. Although I risk sounding like a new-age nut (I hate the movie What The Bleep Do We Know. Hate.) who's to say our 3-dimensional world isn't just an art piece in some 4-dimensional room?

Atheism, to say "there is no god" with any degree of certainty, is irrational... no doubt about it.

[Friend of Sonic]

Atheism, to say "there is no god" with any degree of certainty, is irrational... no doubt about it.
I think doubt is what it's all about. There's a line in the movie where Bill Maher says he is selling doubt. I think that goes hand in hand with what you're saying.
I wouldn't say I have the pomposity to say for certain God isn't real. But I sure have enough doubt not to believe in him.

[The Crotch]

I used to consider myself atheist. The more I learn, scientifically, the less confident I am in god's absence. I think "there's no god" and "there's a god" are equally irrational statements.

Life is mind boggling. Even the tiny details, like water expanding before it freezes (and being the only substance to do so) -- isn't that strange? We don't know why water does this, but we know if it didn't life would not exist on our planet. There are countless similar phenomena, simply too numerous to ignore, it's simply too amazing to rule out the possibility of a divine presence.


Even my education in math has made me realize atheism is irrational. Higher dimensions... have you ever read the book Flatland (http://www.amazon.com/Flatland-Romance-Dimensions-Penguin-Classics/dp/014043531X)? It has nothing to do with religion -- it's about "picturing" n-dimensional space -- it uses 1D and 2D analogs to reason through how we simply cannot understand 4D+. The way I think of n-dimensional space now is similar to how 2D or 3D graphs are viewed when a dimension is restricted. For example, if you imagine only seeing a 3-space graph as a function of time in two dimensions you'd just see an amorphous 2D curve. If you're viewing a sphere, it'll begin as a dot, increase to a circle with the same radius as the sphere, then go back to a dot. It can be compared between 1D/2D also -- if you view a 2-space curve in 1D as a function of time, it'll just be a dot moving along the path of the curve. You can think of 4-space as a 3-space function of time. Everything we're seeing, as time passes, is really just three dimensions of what's happening in 4-space. There's a lot that must exist, but we aren't aware of it, and have no way to perceive it.

Physics requires higher dimensions. We know for a fact there are at least four dimensions -- many physicists believe there are more. Although I risk sounding like a new-age nut (I hate the movie What The Bleep Do We Know. Hate.) who's to say our 3-dimensional world isn't just an art piece in some 4-dimensional room?

Atheism, to say "there is no god" with any degree of certainty, is irrational... no doubt about it.
Ah - positive atheism. Yeah, nobody likes those guys. While I lack the statistics to prove it, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that they make up, say, 5% of self-declared atheists.

[Koggit]

But if you define atheism to include people who aren't convinced of god's absence then how do you define agnosticism?

The way I use the words, which may be wrong...

theist = someone who believes there are god(s)
atheist = someone who believes there are no god(s)
agnostic = someone who doesn't form any convictions regarding god(s)

[SpazX]

But if you define atheism to include people who aren't convinced of god's absence then how do you define agnosticism?

The way I use the words, which may be wrong...

theist = someone who believes in god(s)
atheist = someone who doesn't believe in god(s)
agnostic = someone who doesn't form any convictions regarding god

Oh shit, here comes this conversation again....:-P

Agnosticism, the original concept, was meant to mean people who think that you can't know if there is or isn't a god. So it depends on how you define that.

It's all a question of knowledge vs. belief really, that complicates the whole thing. I might go through all the semantics if I get bored, but Crotch can take it from here if he'd like...

[The Crotch]

The atheist may however be, and not unfrequently is, an agnostic. There is an agnostic atheism or atheistic agnosticism, and the combination of atheism with agnosticism which may be so named is not an uncommon one.There's a lot of line-blurring. My way might seem a bit complicated, but I try to include as many possible views as I can here.

Theist: "Some sort of deity exists/deities exist!"
Agnostic Theist: "Some sort of deity exists, but really that's totally unprovable and/or I don't know anything about said deity."
AGNOSTIC!: "You don't know fuck all, and none of us do or ever will."
Agnostic: "Maybe, maybe not - but maybe someone else would know?"
Agnostic Atheist: "Possible but really improbable."
Weak/Negative Atheist: "I don't believe in any sort of deity or deities."
Strong/Positive Atheist: "I believe there are no deities."

... and with lots of room for overlap and such. I'd say I'm more-or-less positive with regards to, say, the god Daroga worships (not trying to drag you into this for an epic thread derail, man, just giving examples), but more negative or even agnostically (probably not a real word) atheistic towards an ill-defined "vague creator being".

...

Apatheist: "Does any sort of deity exist? The fuck you asking me for? And who let you in my house? I'm trying to eat dinner here!"

EDIT: How'd I do, Spaz?

[SpazX]

More entertaining than mine would have been, that's for sure.

[thrustbucket]

Saying outright "There is no God", is a safe statement to make by atheists by virtue of the fact that "God" has almost as many definitions as there are people. So when you say that phrase, it really only applies to the person you are talking to - "Your god does not exist".

Anywho, looking at RT for reviews of this movie to see if it would be worth seeing tonight, this one convinced me it wasn't for me:

"It's meant to "prove" that religious belief and intelligence are mutually exclusive. If you believe that, this movie is for you. For everyone else, it's a trifling and shoddy tirade."

I get plenty of that on Cag Vs forum ;), I'll use my $6 to see Apaloosa I think (not enough reviews in about American Carol to judge yet).

[The Crotch]

Saying outright "There is no God", is a safe statement to make by atheists by virtue of the fact that "God" has almost as many definitions as there are people. So when you say that phrase, it really only applies to the person you are talking to - "Your god does not exist".Yes, that's why I (hope I) said that the positive atheist's position was that there are no deities of any sort, not just no God.

[zoozilla]

Watching the "Atheist vs. Christian" episode of 30 days was a really interesting experience for me, being an agnostic (yes, I'm an indecisive little prick).

It's just no use trying to convince anyone of something when they firmly believe (or have faith) just the opposite.

There's no point in telling a devout Christian that there's no God. They do believe, have believed, and probably will always believe that God exists. It's a fundamental part of their being that they (probably) decided on during their teenage years, and old habits die hard.

It's also pointless to try to convince an atheist that there is a higher being; they will simply not accept that as fact.

Both sides see the other side as "wrong", somehow, as if they know something the other doesn't, and for that reason both sides try to convert each other, which never works.

Both sides then revert to trying to convince themselves that the other side is wrong, which only strengthens their own belief. It's a vicious cycle.


That's why I think Buddhists are the coolest guys of all. They're very open, very tolerant, are completely pacifistic, and believe in enjoying life to the fullest. Those are all ideas I can live with. Buddhists don't try to convert others, and for that reason almost no one would think of trying to convert a Buddhist. And why would anyone want to? They lead such peaceful lives, it would be a shame to disrupt that tranquil existence.

Basically, what I'm saying is, if everyone were Buddhists, we would have much less problems than we do now; it's a shame that in all these religious debates, it inevitably comes down to Christians vs. Atheists - where's the talk about Judaism, or Hinduism?

[The Crotch]

Watching the "Atheist vs. Christian" episode of 30 days was a really interesting experience for me, being an agnostic (yes, I'm an indecisive little prick).Maybe I can give you a pass 'cause you're sort of using "atheist" as a title there, but please refrain from capitalizing atheist from now on. You don't capitalize "agnostic", do you? No, you don't.

It's just no use trying to convince anyone of something when they firmly believe (or have faith) just the opposite.Generally, if I'm arguing with anyone on this site, it's less to convince them and more for the purpose of making myself better at arguing/for the sake of the lurkers.

Both sides see the other side as "wrong", somehow, as if they know something the other doesn't...Which isn't necessarily wrong. Maybe one side does know something the other doesn't. Being in between two extremes doesn't make you any more right.

That's why I think Buddhists are the coolest guys of all. They're very open, very tolerant, are completely pacifistic, and believe in enjoying life to the fullest. Those are all ideas I can live with. Buddhists don't try to convert others, and for that reason almost no one would think of trying to convert a Buddhist. And why would anyone want to? They lead such peaceful lives, it would be a shame to disrupt that tranquil existence. No comment, as I've never met any Buddhists. I've met one guy who claimed to be Buddhist-influenced, but he had a bit too much of an ego for me to take that very seriously. I guess the point I'm trying to make here is... non-existent.

Basically, what I'm saying is, if everyone were Buddhists, we would have much less problems than we do now; it's a shame that in all these religious debates, it inevitably comes down to Christians vs. Atheists - where's the talk about Judaism, or Hinduism?Show of hands. Who here's Hindu?

...

And there's that capital "a" again, dammit!

[camoor]

That's why I think Buddhists are the coolest guys of all. They're very open, very tolerant, are completely pacifistic, and believe in enjoying life to the fullest. Those are all ideas I can live with. Buddhists don't try to convert others, and for that reason almost no one would think of trying to convert a Buddhist. And why would anyone want to? They lead such peaceful lives, it would be a shame to disrupt that tranquil existence.

Basically, what I'm saying is, if everyone were Buddhists, we would have much less problems than we do now; it's a shame that in all these religious debates, it inevitably comes down to Christians vs. Atheists - where's the talk about Judaism, or Hinduism?

I completely agree

There is no difficulty in our assuming that these men themselves did not understand clearly what happened to them. The only one who explains his system thoroughly is Buddha, and Buddha is the only one that is not dogmatic. We may also suppose that the others thought it inadvisable to explain too clearly to their followers; St. Paul evidently took this line.
Our best document will therefore be the system of Buddha;but it is so complex that no immediate summary will serve

http://www.sacred-texts.com/oto/aba/aba1.htm

[trq]

http://www.sacred-texts.com/oto/aba/aba1.htm

Surely you could pick someone better to quote than Aleister Crowley?

[camoor]

Surely you could pick someone better to quote than Aleister Crowley?

You're welcome to try. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

[trq]

You're welcome to try. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Well, I think that the Dalai Lama himself doesn't have many quotes like Crowley's probably says something, and he may be a bit more of an authority on the subject.

[camoor]

Well, I think that the Dalai Lama himself doesn't have many quotes like Crowley's probably says something, and he may be a bit more of an authority on the subject.

I've never been big on authority for authority's sake. Incidentally, neither was Gautama Buddha.

I completely admit I'm out of it when it comes to organized religion. I don't know whose orders you have to follow, and how much money you have to give every week and how many veils the women have to wear etc etc. AFAIK Buddhists seem pretty laid back on this stuff though (comparitively speaking)

[trq]

I've never been big on authority for authority's sake. Incidentally, neither was Gautama Buddha.

I completely admit I'm out of it when it comes to organized religion. I don't know whose orders you have to follow, and how much money you have to give every week and how many veils the women have to wear etc etc. AFAIK Buddhists seem pretty laid back on this stuff though (comparitively speaking)

Depends on the Buddhist, the sect, and the era, but we've been over that. My point was just that the quote from Crowley is awfully judgmental and axiomatic ("the other guys obviously don't get it"), which, considering he's talking about a supposedly NON-judgmental and NON-axiomatic religion, tells me he's managed to miss the whole point. That you'd never find someone like the Dalai Lama saying something like that makes the point far better than Crowley actually saying it.

[camoor]

Depends on the Buddhist, the sect, and the era, but we've been over that. My point was just that the quote from Crowley is awfully judgmental and axiomatic ("the other guys obviously don't get it"), which, considering he's talking about a supposedly NON-judgmental and NON-axiomatic religion, tells me he's managed to miss the whole point. That you'd never find someone like the Dalai Lama saying something like that makes the point far better than Crowley actually saying it.

Oh yeah. It's just part of his opinion on mainstream religions. It's not a Buddhist opinion or anything.

[DarkNessBear]

Great film, a must see.

Practice whatever religion you like, I don't care. All I want is a separation of Church from state/politics (which also includes, people voting on the religious views of a president) and the crazy damnation/violence most religion practices. There... that's it! If ya guys can abide by those rules, than you can sit in your corners all day blabbing about flying fish headed monkies and holy ghosts or whatever you guys think is real.

[thrustbucket]

(which also includes, people voting on the religious views of a president)
How would you propose we stop that?

and the crazy damnation/violence most religion practices.
Damnation? Maybe, depending on how you define damnation.
Most religions practice violence? Do you really want to stand by that statement?


I have not seen this film yet, but from what I am told, it's amusing yet inconsequential, since it was clearly edited/directed to only have interviews and discussions with the most crazy and embarrassing. It was clearly not intent on having a real religious discussion with anyone that most would consider intellectuals on religious thought.

Some would call such a thing: "Hatchet job".

[FloodsAreUponUS]

How would you propose we stop that?

Only Atheists and Agnostics can vote.

[DarkNessBear]

Only Atheists and Agnostics can vote.

Haha, that would run into problems.

I propose that everyone just stop voting with religious views. :) Just send an email to every religious person and say, "Hey, stop voting based on religion. K thx bai"

It should work...

[The Crotch]

Only Atheists and Agnostics can vote.
First issue: proper mothafucking capitalization.

[thrustbucket]

Haha, that would run into problems.

I propose that everyone just stop voting with religious views. :) Just send an email to every religious person and say, "Hey, stop voting based on religion. K thx bai"

It should work...

So are you going to set the example by promising to ignore all candidates religious views or degree of religious activity when voting from now on?

[Friend of Sonic]

First issue: proper mothafucking capitalization.
Crotch, would you be all right if I typed atheist as an acroymn? Such as:
"As an A.T.H.E.I.S.T., I am still open for others to have and express their religious views."

Would you be all right with me referring to myself as A.T.H.E.I.S.T?

[The Crotch]

That depends. Does it stand for something awesome?

[Friend of Sonic]

That depends. Does it stand for something awesome?
No, but it would make for a good television show with 80's cheese.

[Zoglog]

saw it over the weekend, fun movie.

though I'm biased for the movie, It is filmed rather unfairly with less chance for the religious people to provide a good rebuttal.

[thrustbucket]

Thank's zoglog, for providing the most honest review so far.

[Reality's Fringe]

The reality is that this movie is about Bill Maher being a dick to a few religious nut jobs. That's it. If you don't like religion, then you'll probably enjoy the interviews he has. If you are a religious person and not a TOTAL fuck moron, you'll probably be upset at said interviews being hilariously handpicked for crazy people.

Either way, you'll get at least a few laughs. I know I did (holocaust denying jew FTW).

[SoonerMatt]

George Carlin put it best:

"So there you have it, the abridged version of the Ten Commandments: Thou shalt not be dishonest and thou shall, um, try really, really hard not to kill people. And here's one that needs to be added: Thou shall not force thy beliefs on anyone else."

[Friend of Sonic]

I don't think this movie is meant to provoke thought, or even really provide a fair battleground for religion. We get to see some crazies, we laugh, the end. Although, I do wish he put in some crazy atheists... you know, because he claims to sell doubt, not strict atheism. It would make sense to want to show both ends of the crazy straw. But he didn't do that, which was disappointing.

[The Crotch]

I don't think this movie is meant to provoke thought, or even really provide a fair battleground for religion. We get to see some crazies, we laugh, the end. Although, I do wish he put in some crazy atheists... you know, because he claims to sell doubt, not strict atheism. It would make sense to want to show both ends of the crazy straw. But he didn't do that, which was disappointing.So in other words, it's like paying money to see youtube and fstdt?

[Friend of Sonic]

So in other words, it's like paying money to see youtube and fstdt?
Unfortunately. It does seem like the best gags come from the archive footage that's randomly played. But some of the interviews are funny. The guy in Amsterdam was hillarious.

[HumanSnatcher]

saw it over the weekend, fun movie.

though I'm biased for the movie, It is filmed rather unfairly with less chance for the religious people to provide a good rebuttal.

Thats because when pressed they really have no rebuttal...

Saw it 2 weeks ago...just hope that the DVD has a shit ton of extra footage