Reggie Fils-Aime Says the Hardcore is "Insatiable"

[FloodsAreUponUS]

"The gaming enthusiast that buys a tremendous amount of games is truly insatiable," Fils-Aime says. "As an example, in March, we launched Super Smash Bros. Brawl. In April, we launched Mario Kart. In later April, we launched Wii Fit. Then, in July, at E3, they say, 'where are the games?' They say they want the next Mario game. Super Mario Galaxy isn't even a year old yet."

We believe today that we have shown a plethora of games and genres that can satisfy the most casual to the most core. Even that doesn't seem like it's enough.


From IGN:
http://wii.ign.com/articles/916/916810p1.html

http://i35.tinypic.com/2567blw.jpg

[Jest]

Agreed. As hardcore gamers (I don't like the term. I prefer knowledgeable or active gamers -- people who read message boards, gaming sites, etc) we expect too much from Nintendo. It may be hard for them to admit but we are not their core audience anymore.

Serious question here: What do you want from Nintendo?

[Dr Mario Kart]

Nintendo isnt the only ones making games for their system. No one expects to subsist off of just Sony or MS's first party teams either.

If what the hardcores really want is online gaming, they need to look elsewhere.

[daroga]

That's pretty true. We we tend to play a game, finish it and toss it aside. Not saying that it's wrong, but the time we get out of games vs. the time required to make them is a pretty lopsided formula.

[Dead of Knight]

None of those are truly "gaming enthusiast" games. You could argue for Brawl and Galaxy, perhaps, but there's no way Wii Fit was made for us. It was targeted towards soccer moms in the US; just look at the marketing. I'm sick of NOA's bullshit. I haven't bought a single game from them in over a year. All my DS and Wii purchases have been 3rd party, and especially for the Wii, those purchases are few and far between (past year for Wii: Dragon Quest Swords, RE: UC, Opoona, and soon Tales of Symphonia. THAT'S IT). They are no longer targeting us gamers anymore here in the US. There's PLENTY of 1st party games in Japan that they could bring over here, but they're either months late or they completely refuse.

[Strell]

Gosh, the controversy that is the truth.

Woe be us enlightened ones who will surely use this as more ammo for bad arguments against Nintendo.

Edit: Too late. DoK already started the madness.

[Rei no Otaku]

Oh well. Luckily there's consoles other than the Wii around.

[Dead of Knight]

Gosh, the controversy that is the truth.

Woe be us enlightened ones who will surely use this as more ammo for bad arguments against Nintendo.

Edit: Too late. DoK already started the madness.

I'm just expressing my opinion. They have literally released fuck-all nothing for my tastes in the past year, and it's bullshit. I realize that for a good majority of Wii owners, this is not the case at all. But it is for me and a decent amount of hardcore gamers that are sick of casual games.

[Strell]

Your tastes are clearly RPG. So yeah, no soup for you, come back one year.

[Lord_Kefka]

Damn. This thread is decidedly less sexy than I hoped for when I read "insatiable"

[Dr Mario Kart]

None of those are truly "gaming enthusiast" games.
In this case, when has Nintendo EVER released truly gaming enthusiast games. I dont believe that they have under your definition, and therefore their focus has not ever changed.

[Strell]

Damn. This thread is decidedly less sexy than I hoped for when I read "insatiable"

I can't do it all by myself, people!

[Chacrana]

In this case, when has Nintendo EVER released truly gaming enthusiast games. I dont believe that they have under your definition, and therefore their focus has not ever changed.

I take enthusiast games to mean stuff that's not super-simplistic crap that wouldn't entertain anyone who's played a game before. That means Wii Fit.

I've only bought Brawl and Mario Kart this year, and while yeah, there's definitely a huge lack of good stuff, there is some good stuff on the horizon, so I'm more optimistic than I was like... 5 months ago or so.

[FloodsAreUponUS]

Gaming"Enthusiast" Games or Games that wont Appeal to Soccer Moms:
Earthbound series
Fire Emblem Series
Mario RPG Series
Pikmin Series
Metroid Series
F-Zero Series
Star Fox Series

[Strell]

I'm really glad Nintendo released Wii Fit. It's going to give clench-fisted gamers ammo for years to come, the same way people like to think pins on the lapel constitutes true examination.

[Strell]

Gaming"Enthusiast" Games or Games that wont Appeal to Soccer Moms:
Earthbound series
Fire Emblem Series
Mario RPG Series
Pikmin Series
Metroid Series
F-Zero Series
Star Fox Series

Those are Nintendo Gaming Enthusiast games at best. The average "gaming enthusiast" of today doesn't have the patience for half of them, calls the other half gay, and is turned off by the use of more than 3 colors. Hell, Earthbound got roasted by kids back when it was released, to say nothing of the shitstorm that will be shitted out when it finally comes to the VC, since I can already predict the astounding levels of idiocy that will populate the internets-at-large once that time comes, where I WILL be responsible for lots of violence.

About the only one applicable on that list is Metroid, and that game gets so little attention it's downright criminal.

Just look at the conference from last week. How many people outside of already-Nintendo fans are excited? Almost none. Hell, at least half the population who is excited is composed of a bunch of reluctantly-infused people, saying things like "Yeah gee I like X but ONLY if it does these specific 80947239487239473 things I want."

I mean it's moved on from liking a franchise or a title and into now it HAS to do x y and z. But hey, let's keep the parade a-goin', with a "We don't brake for anything less than M" bumpersticker.

[Dead of Knight]

Gaming"Enthusiast" Games or Games that wont Appeal to Soccer Moms:
Earthbound series
Fire Emblem Series
Mario RPG Series
Pikmin Series
Metroid Series
F-Zero Series
Star Fox Series

Great list, thanks.

[FloodsAreUponUS]

Can we define "Gaming Enthusiast"? Is it the dude that plays COD4, Gears, and Halo? Or is it the people that read message boards, listen to podcasts, and keep up to date with the industry?

[Dr Mario Kart]

How many games do you expect from each first party team per year? They've already hit Metroid, Fire Emblem, and Zelda.

Do you honestly expect any of those teams to have produced ANYTHING good in time for this holiday season?

[Strell]

Can we define "Gaming Enthusiast"? Is it the dude that plays COD4, Gears, and Halo? Or is it the people that read message boards, listen to podcasts, and keep up to date with the industry?

You might as well define "hardcore gamer," since you're just substituting a different title for the same thing. And that is a completely useless endeavor. 100% hopeless. Been debated a million times all ova the place and it's trash from end to end.

[FloodsAreUponUS]

How many games do you expect from each first party team per year? They've already hit Metroid, Fire Emblem, and Zelda.

Do you honestly expect any of those teams to have produced ANYTHING good in time for this holiday season?

I expect at least 2 games from Intelligent Systems. Last year they put out at least 5 games I can think of, possibly more. I have gotten 1 Advance Wars. IF NOA could get off its lazy ass and get out FE:DS or Pokemon Platnium, then I could feel that Reggie's Comments are justified.

[Friend of Sonic]

Insatiable? Like we're a bunch of horny, lonely housewives? All I want is Nintendo to develop new IPs for the "hardcore." This has been a problem for some time, but it seems really bad for this generation. I'm a huge fan of Nintendo, but I'm getting a little sick of defending them when one of their big holiday releases is Wii Music.

[Dr Mario Kart]

This year IS has put out Days of Ruin and in Japan, the remake Fire Emblem for DS.

Last year, they put out Fire Emblem, Paper Mario and WarioWare, the previous 2 having most of their dev time under the Gamecube.

I dont believe anyone knows what they've been working on since then.

[FloodsAreUponUS]

This year IS has put out Days of Ruin and in Japan, the remake Fire Emblem for DS.

Last year, they put out Fire Emblem, Paper Mario and WarioWare, the previous 2 having most of their dev time under the Gamecube.

I dont believe anyone knows what they've been working on since then.

I previously stated NOJ is much better at making games people care about then NOA. It should not take 6 months to a year to get it out across the sea.

[Dr Mario Kart]

Does NOA even make games, period? I thought all of the branches of EAD were in Japan

[blueshinra]

How many games do you expect from each first party team per year? They've already hit Metroid, Fire Emblem, and Zelda.

Do you honestly expect any of those teams to have produced ANYTHING good in time for this holiday season?
This, exactly.

Nintendo can only do so much, and the best games take time to make. Do people make these same demands of Sony and Microsoft (and their second parties)?

[Dead of Knight]

This year IS has put out Days of Ruin and in Japan, the remake Fire Emblem for DS.

Last year, they put out Fire Emblem, Paper Mario and WarioWare, the previous 2 having most of their dev time under the Gamecube.

I dont believe anyone knows what they've been working on since then.

KEY WORDS: IN JAPAN

NCL is doing a fine job of getting games out, it's just NOA is taking their sweet ass time releasing relevant hardcore games over here, or they're not releasing them at all.

[ninja dog]

This, exactly.

Nintendo can only do so much, and the best games take time to make. Do people make these same demands of Sony and Microsoft (and their second parties)?


Not really, but that's because of the 3rd party support.


Don't really care about this article, but I love how he cites Wii Fit...that fucker knows exactly how to screw with the hardcore gamer :lol:

[daroga]

Has Microsoft Games Studio released anything since Halo 3 and PGR4? And yet I don't hear anyone complaining about the 360. Why? Because the 3rd parties put out some decent stuff.

Your beef is not with Nintendo, people, but all the companies not releasing anything of any value on the system when the opportunity is ripe.

[Chacrana]

Do Sony and Microsoft even make good games?

I know someone's gonna jump in and yell out "Uncharted," but that's kinda the point.

[blueshinra]

Not really, but that's because of the 3rd party support.
Yep, and to me, that's more important than how many new Mario games Nintendo can release this generation. Third party support is great on the DS, but merely okay on the Wii so far. I'm fine with that for right now, but I would like it to be better.

Nintendo itself is giving me enough of what I want to play. The Wii Fit bit aside, I think Reggie has a real point here.

[Dr Mario Kart]

Sony has Team ICO and Digital Polyphony under their wing, but they're super slow.

The trend for both Sony and MS though, particularly this year, has been to dissolve 1st party development and move toward 3rd.

[daroga]

Do Sony and Microsoft even make good games?

I know someone's gonna jump in and yell out "Uncharted," but that's kinda the point.Microsoft does alright, Sony's struggling to find their footing as the PS2 was a roaring success thanks to 3rd party, not 1st party support.

[Chacrana]

I can't even think of one good game Microsoft has made.

[Strell]

I can't even think of one good game Microsoft has made.

Brute Force.

[FloodsAreUponUS]

Brute Force.

:rofl:

[daroga]

I can't even think of one good game Microsoft has made.The PGR's were solid, but Bizzare of course isn't under their wing anymore.

Halo 1 & 3 were fun.

[Chacrana]

That's the thing - MS didn't make any of those - they just published that ish.

No matter how shit Nintendo is, at least they're actually making games and those games are actually good. They might be slow as hell and occasionally make stupid shit, but that's more than can be said about Sony of MS.

[Dr Mario Kart]

MGS owns Lionhead, so they can get credited for Fable

[FloodsAreUponUS]

I can't even think of one good game Microsoft has made.

SRSLY:
Forza 1 and 2
Lost Odyssey
Ninja Gaiden 2.

Ehhh Microsoft has no internal devolpment.
This is hard.

That's the thing - MS didn't make any of those - they just published that ish.

No matter how shit Nintendo is, at least they're actually making games and those games are actually good. They might be slow as hell and make stupid shit, but that's more than can be said about Sony of MS.

Shadow of the Colossus is better then anything Nintendo ever made.

[Chacrana]

MGS owns Lionhead, so they can get credited for Fable

And when that's as good as it gets, you know the company is basically worthless.

[FloodsAreUponUS]

And when that's as good as it gets, you know the company is basically worthless.

What about Minesweeper?

[SL4IN]

SRSLY:
Lost Odyssey
Ninja Gaiden 2.


Losty Odyssey was done by mistwalker and NGII was done by TECMO.......

[FloodsAreUponUS]

Losty Odyssey was done by mistwalker and NGII was done by TECMO.......

They were published by MGS, which is all they can really do.

[SL4IN]

Shadow of the Colossus is better then anything Nintendo ever made.

Yeah, if only the game ran faster than like, 11 frames per second.

[Friend of Sonic]

I still think-- and some will say I'm an outlandish fanboy-- that Nintendo still one of the finest developers ever. It's a little frustrating when they're not pushing for new IP. Project H.A.M.M.E.R at least looked interesting, but that got canned. Captain Hero looks amazing, but we may never see that in the states.
I guess part of why Nintendo fans like myself are upset is because Nintendo arguably delivered the best first party library during NES and SNES era. Now we're really not seeing that grand scope and variety.

[FloodsAreUponUS]

Yeah, if only the game ran faster than like, 11 frames per second.

If only Nintendo could come up with an aesthetic that didn't look like a 3rd grade crayon drawing.

[Gumby the Green]

yeah i mean lets be honest, i don't have as much time to game as i would like (damn you college) but there is no support for nintendo, and its sad. Yeah they released fun sequels to their 15+ year old franchises but where is the new stuff, and to me its fine that microsoft doesn't have an internal team because they know which companies to buy (lionhead thank you for all your goodness) and they get all the major titles. its nintendos fault, i mean they wanted to be different this generation so they can't really support any of the major titles because they don't translate to the controller and low resolution.

[The Crotch]

If only Nintendo could come up with an aesthetic that didn't look like a 3rd grade crayon drawing.If only this wasn't a fucking stupid back-and-forth.

EDIT: Great, now I'm subscribed to this thread. To the User CP I go!

[FloodsAreUponUS]

If only this wasn't a fucking stupid back-and-forth.

EDIT: Great, now I'm subscribed to this thread. To the User CP I go!

If only...

[Strell]

Didn't take long for this thread to go downhill.

[soonersfan60]

First of all, Nintendo should be catering to the "Hardcore" because:
insatiable = unlimited profits, as long as they keep puming stuff out.

Second, use the VC to satisfy us "Hardcore" instead of whining about it. That would cost them nearly nothing in development time or money.

Third, keep us posted on what you're working on, Nintendo, and we would be happy. Problem is, I don't think you are actively working on many of the franchises we love.

Fourth, work on some new IP. Tell us about it. It may take years to complete, but we'd be happy just to hear about it.

Fifth, get more 3rd parties on board. I think they are making strides here, but the games will take time to show up at retail.

That is all.

[Chris in Cali]

The thing is on other consoles you're getting Halo 3, Fable 2, Fallout 3, Oblivion, Little Big Planet, Resident Evil 5, Gears of War, Gears of War 2, Resistance 2, Uncharted, Motorstrom 2, Crackdown, GTA 4, Mass Effect, Saint's Row, Saint's Row 2, Burnout, Metal Gear Solid 4, Bioshock, ect. I guess one Mario game per generation and Wii Fit beats that in Nintendo's eye... LOL.

[BlueLobstah]

As far as the actual games Nintendo has produced in the Wii's lifetime, it has been fantastic. Nintendo has released over 20 games in less than a two year span (obviously not including any VC/WiiWare titles). This is the most output of any previous Nintendo console. Now whether or not these games appeal to a certain sub-core groups of users is debatable, but you are delusional if you complain that the Wii has no games.

My two biggest complaints so far have been pacing, and no interest in importing titles that are complete. Why was Brawl and Mario Kart only released within one month of each other? Where is Disaster Day of Crisis, and Captain Rainbow?

Anyway, back to the article.

I thought it was more interesting that Reggie basically insulted the "hard core" Nintendo fans, yet those same people continue on and prove his very point. Quite frankly, I think that's the more interesting story than spewing of "lol nintedno sux, i'm selling my wii".

[DQT]

Umm... he's right. There's not much Nintendo can do development-wise. They've released games for all their big franchises already. They can't make every single game for the console.

But it's still Nintendo's fault that there are next to no interesting third party games for games for the Wii. If Nintendo actually helped market and support development of games like Zack and Wiki maybe more developers would be able make great games for the system.

Microsoft doesn't get half the shit Nintendo does. There are so many third party games that 1st party games like Fable 2 risk actually going under the radar. PG4 did. No one's complaining about MGS's output.

[Dr Mario Kart]

Shooter fans should definitely stick to the HD Twins.

[Strell]

First of all, Nintendo should be catering to the "Hardcore" because:
insatiable = unlimited profits, as long as they keep puming stuff out.


Debatable, plus more audience total = more potential profit.


Second, use the VC to satisfy us "Hardcore" instead of whining about it. That would cost them nearly nothing in development time or money.

While I agree, my agreement is lessened simply because the last 2 months or so has been nice. But at best that's 1/6th of the year.

The best answer might be that there are more legal hoops that have to be negotiated than anyone knows about, which would help explain the abysmal rate of the VC, but that's really anyone's guess outside of Nintendo's lawyers.


Third, keep us posted on what you're working on, Nintendo, and we would be happy. Problem is, I don't think you are actively working on many of the franchises we love.

The old Nintendo strategy was to reveal anything they were working on when they began, which was good in the sense that we were always reassured. The bad part was that these games inevitably got delayed over and over, which made everyone angry.

The new strategy seems to be to reveal a game and then release it 3-4 months later (Warioland, Captain Rainbow, Pokemon Platinum, etc). This is good since we get stuff more quickly and aren't kept in a stasis state of anticipation-gradually-decreasing.

It's bad because Nintendo seems to do this in the extreme, when they need to pick and choose the battle more sincerely. I.e., there's probably no real reason some of the stuff that was revealed last Thursday couldn't have been shown at E3. I'm guessing Sin and Punishment 2 and/or Punch-Out could have been shown and been the proverbial sugar to help the medicine go down.

Really this is sort of the insatiable argument. Games could be revealed left and right and STILL there'd be people angry about it.


Fourth, work on some new IP. Tell us about it. It may take years to complete, but we'd be happy just to hear about it.

Did you miss the 4-5 new IP shown last Thursday? To say nothing of things like Captain Rainbow?


Fifth, get more 3rd parties on board. I think they are making strides here, but the games will take time to show up at retail.

This is slowly, slowly changing. The appearance of RPGs and some properties like The Conduit and Monster Hunter are the beginning. It remains to be seen whether or not this changes wholly. At this point, I'm really thinking it won't. Too many developers shrugged off the system in pre-release, too many did during these first two years, and too many still won't come on board. The ones that HAVE gotten on the trolley tend to do so with a half-assed devotion at best.

The nerds in the gaming audience and in the development sector have made it really clear - they'd all rather have pretty graphics.

The thing is on other consoles you're getting Halo 3, Fable 2, Fallout 3, Oblivion, Little Big Planet, Resident Evil 5, Gears of War, Gears of War 2, Resistance 2, Uncharted, Motorstrom 2, Crackdown, GTA 4, Mass Effect, Saint's Row, Saint's Row 2, Burnout, Metal Gear Solid 4, Bioshock, ect. I guess one Mario game per generation and Wii Fit beats that in Nintendo's eye... LOL.

I like how you snuck in LittleBigPlanet, since it makes no sense to be on that list at all. As well as a bunch of games that are dated and 2+ years old.

Not to mention Wii Fit, since that's the only argument you've got, which is funny since Nintendo never acts like it's for you anyway. That's entirely constructed by the gaming nation - "Oh Nintendo thinks Wii Fit will win me over," when in reality they've couldn't care less about your opinion on that title.

[ninja dog]

WAIT I got one:

Hexic. That game is tight.

[dmaul1114]

Sorry Reggie, the "hardcore" isn't insatiable. They'er just tired of your rehashed franchises. Don't dig motion controls for the most part. Want HD graphics and robust online gaming, demos etc.

I don't game that much, and I'm more than 100% satisfied with the 360 and can't come close to play every game in it's library that I'd like to try. Where as the Wii got ditched early this year for the reasons above.

So in short, fuck off Reggie. "Hardcore" gamers don't need Nintendo, and you don't need us. Just keep making a killing off of kids, Nintendo fanboys, soccer moms and non-gamers and the rest of us will enjoy the tremendous game libraries on the other two platforms.

But it cuts both ways.

1. Nintendo needs to not bitch about the "hardcore" as they're making a killing by going after a different market.

2. The "hardcore" need to quit bitching about Nintendo. Their consoles have been good for little other than the handful of first party franchises worth playing for the past 3 generations, and this generation will be even worse in that regard with their different market and lower specs on the console.

You either own it for the 1st franchises and casual gamers, or you sell it/don't buy it and enjoy the other two platforms.

[kainzero]

I can't believe Brawl just came out in March. I already think it's a pile of crap and it split the Smash community into pieces: those who want smash ball / items, those who don't, and those who want Melee. (I'm in the third group! ^^)

Mario Kart is also the same damn game with a couple of changes.

Galaxy is one of those weird games. It's fun but it seemed entirely unmotivating to pick up and actually play.

The difference is that the Wii lacks true competitive games.

[JEKKI]

man at the end of the day gamers just have an attitude like everybody owes them something...

I donno, that's how I usually perceive message board users.

when wii doesnt satisfy core gamers, I play something else instead of bitch about it,

and when good games come out for the Wii then I play good games on the wii

[cochesecochese]

Serious question here: What do you want from Nintendo?

Real answer? An experience closer to what Japan gets. We are customers as well. Unfortunately, there are a lot of reasons this is never going to happen.

Let's start with the games. We all know Nintendo publishes great games but it is annoying and a little disheartening that US gamers get a lot of this stuff later than Japan with (arguably) worse box art and packaging, if we get it at all. A lot of this has to do with the way NOA and NCL decide which games come to the US market. NOA picks titles that are already far along in development and then works with a nearly finished product which it then releases in North America. It would be nice if there was NOA staff that developed concepts with NCL or at least began translation in conjunction with development at NCL. Good luck finding bi-lingual, talented programmers who are willing to work for the (less) pay offered to Japanese workers.

Nintendo's online solution is less than spectacular. Let's face it. Even without comparing it to LIVE or PSN it's substandard. It's great that it's free but the necessity of friend codes and the lack of a true messaging system (this changes with AC, I know) hold the service back. Furthermore, the VC selection is pretty terrible in comparison to what Japan gets. Japan has far more titles than we do and they get the hot shit much sooner. The storage solution is pretty terrible but understandable, given the piracy problem, but Nintendo could have done a better job with this. I also find it appalling that a VC purchase means you are effectively renting a game and do not own it or a license to re-download it to another console if your first box craps out and you buy a replacement.

Club Nintendo. It's obnoxious that this is coming to NA so late. During the GCN/GBA era I had all possible GBA games registered and was less than five away from completing the GCN games library. Check out this Zelda disc. It has roms of every Zelda game I've already got in my collection. I also registered about 15 DS games, 10 Wii games and 15+ VC games. Good thing.

The VC thing was the last straw. I only wanted to re-download three games and you would think that with my registered games numbering in the hundreds Nintendo would bend its policy. Nope.

Nintendo brought me a lot of good memories growing up and I'm glad for it but it seems like it's still very much the same company as it was then. I'm all set with that.

[Strell]

2. The "hardcore" need to quit bitching about Nintendo.

"Do as I say, not as I do."

man at the end of the day gamers just have an attitude like everybody owes them something...

I donno, that's how I usually perceive message board users.

when wii doesnt satisfy core gamers, I play something else instead of bitch about it,

and when good games come out for the Wii then I play good games on the wii

The little moments of clarity I see out of Jekki are always inspiring.

Then he goes back to talking about Bennie Mac being sucked into TVs and shit.

[dmaul1114]

"Do as I say, not as I do."


Not really. I bitched before I wised up and ditched the console, but not since then. I follow the game market, so I have interest in topics like this, but I'm not wasting time bashing Nintendo anymore. They're making a killing so they're doing what's right for them.

Core gamers just need to quit bitching about them, and, conversely, Reggie shouldn't bitch about core gamers as they made a decision to not target them with anything beyond the standard 1st party franchises.

They're printing money from that decision so they should just ignore the core gamer complaints, or outright say they don't give a crap about that market like they pretty much did when they announced the Wii and said they were going to focus on casual gamers and non-gamers after getting killed by Sony the past two generations in the core gamer market.

[Strell]

Not really. I bitched before I wised up and ditched the console, but not since then.

I need to know what cocktail of drugs you ingest daily to create this fascinating limbo you're in. Making up quotes from execs, continuing to do something you say you don't. Just all this treasure trove of cognitive dissonance.

[dmaul1114]

I need to know what cocktail of drugs you ingest daily to create this fascinating limbo you're in. Making up quotes from execs, continuing to do something you say you don't. Just all this treasure trove of cognitive dissonance.

Similarly, I'd love to know what those of you who actually enjoy the Wii are on. :D

And I'm not bashing Nintendo--I said they're doing the right thing. I just don't like the direction they've went as it's totally divergent from what I want out of a gaming console, so of course I'm not going to have positive things to say about that. But I'm not going to bash Nintendo, they're making tons of cash after getting owned last generation so more power to them.

[Strell]

Darn. Elitism.

I can't argue with that nonsense.

[dmaul1114]

Darn. Elitism.

I can't argue with that nonsense.

It was a joke. Lighten up Francis. Don't get your Mario panties in a bunch.

Different strokes for different folks. I couldn't care less that people like the Wii, or why the like it. It's not for me and there are two other consoles out there that offer the types of gaming I like, so no skin off my nose.

[SL4IN]

Similarly, I'd love to know what those of you who actually enjoy the Wii are on. :D

And I'm not bashing Nintendo--I said they're doing the right thing. I just don't like the direction they've went as it's totally divergent from what I want out of a gaming console, so of course I'm not going to have positive things to say about that. But I'm not going to bash Nintendo, they're making tons of cash after getting owned last generation so more power to them.

You constantly bring up how Nintendo got "owned" last generation by Sony, but you always fail to mention that Microsoft LOST money last gen. And they didn't just lose some money, the lost A LOT of money.

[dmaul1114]

You constantly bring up how Nintendo got "owned" last generation by Sony, but you always fail to mention that Microsoft LOST money last gen. And they didn't just lose some money, the lost A LOT of money.

Yep, MS got owned by Sony as well, probably even worse. I'm not an MS fanboy. I don't like any of these 3 companies, I just begrudgingly give my money to them to play games. :D The 360 has the most games I want to play this generation, and I only have time for one console this generation so the 360 was my choice. Last gen the PS2 was my fave, though I owned all 3 then. And I played the GC more than the original X-box.

Next gen we'll see. MS has the edge going in as I've enjoyed their exclusives and X-box live, but things can change. I, like most people, though the PS3 would be the console to own this gen, but a $500-$600 launch price changed that fast.

[Lord_Kefka]

I love threads like these. It's so easy to skip the middle without caring.

Begin Thread:
Reggie made a comment that the hardcore game enthusiast (i.e. buys many games in a year) is "insatiable" in their appetite for the next big release? Is this a fair statement? Let's discuss the ramifications of a high-demand in this rapidly growing industry? Between lead production times and costs causing small developers to be bought up to survive and the technological advances we should have a spirited conversation. I'm sure many new ideas and opinions will enlighten us all.

Fast forward. >>>>>>>>

YUR System got PWNED!


Ahhh, the internet. How I love thee

[blueshinra]

man at the end of the day gamers just have an attitude like everybody owes them something...

I donno, that's how I usually perceive message board users.

when wii doesnt satisfy core gamers, I play something else instead of bitch about it,

and when good games come out for the Wii then I play good games on the wii
*hugs Jekki*

And with that, I'm joining The Crotch and unsubscribing to this thread. There's only so much fanboy pissing match I can stand :roll:

[ChibiJosh]

Just wanted to point out the amusing thread title typo: Reggie Fils-Anime.

[willardhaven]

Get a PS2 and stop complaining people, the Wii is churning out 1st party hits faster than the GC.

[Rei no Otaku]

Sorry Reggie, the "hardcore" isn't insatiable. They'er just tired of your rehashed franchises. Don't dig motion controls for the most part. Want HD graphics and robust online gaming, demos etc.

I don't game that much, and I'm more than 100% satisfied with the 360 and can't come close to play every game in it's library that I'd like to try. Where as the Wii got ditched early this year for the reasons above.

So in short, fuck off Reggie. "Hardcore" gamers don't need Nintendo, and you don't need us. Just keep making a killing off of kids, Nintendo fanboys, soccer moms and non-gamers and the rest of us will enjoy the tremendous game libraries on the other two platforms.

But it cuts both ways.

1. Nintendo needs to not bitch about the "hardcore" as they're making a killing by going after a different market.

2. The "hardcore" need to quit bitching about Nintendo. Their consoles have been good for little other than the handful of first party franchises worth playing for the past 3 generations, and this generation will be even worse in that regard with their different market and lower specs on the console.

You either own it for the 1st franchises and casual gamers, or you sell it/don't buy it and enjoy the other two platforms.
Very well said.

[Dr Mario Kart]

Agree. Fuck hardly core. Stick with your 360.

[HotShotX]

If Reggie considers Wii Fit to be a game for the "hardcore" crowd, then he's clearly fallen out of touch with Nintendo's fanbase. He may make Nintendo truckloads of money but I suspect that the goodwill of the fanbase will only be stretched to the end of this cycle, and they will be picking up another company's console when the next generation comes.

By then, the Wii will be left collecting dust on the shelf along with all the other "single-purpose" peripherals Nintendo seems to keep pumping out, clearly forgetting the lessons learned when "single-purpose" peripherals were a waste on the GBC and GBA.

Even after the hardcore base has left them, the casual gamers will also be reluctant to pick up another console and catalog of accessories with a Wii collecting dust atop a mountain of plastic peripherals.

From my perspective, the only way Nintendo could crawl out of this and continue this route into another generation is to release several major 1st-party titles near the end of the Wii lifecycle.

~HotShotX

[cochesecochese]

Aono man. I think Nintendo just has to release something as awesome as Wii Sports with the next home console. We've all heard the stories about folks buying a Wii and playing nothing but Wii Sports on it.

[SuxoR]

Poor Nintendo, I think they could have the gaming industry by the bawlz....

Imagine if Brawl wasn't broken to make the casual audience happy? Jumping into games while voice chatting man...that would end all

Mario Kart where you can set up games anyone can play? Voice chatting 1v1 1v9 who cares

Single player games like Zelda/Metroid/Mario where you can upload your scores and compete with other Nintendo fans

DS battling online Pictochat online

Nintendo needs to have an online system similar to XBOX Live, with the games they have (I mentioned a small small number) they could dominate everyone

idk if they are scared? Or stubborn?

[depascal22]

We might shun the next Nintendo console but the younger generation that's being raised on the Wii will flock to it. Nintendo is catering to them while Sony and Microsoft will cater to the ever shrinking hardcore. I say ever shrinking because most of us are getting advanced in our careers (or starting them). Most of us are having more kids and don't have time to game and will buy less and less games as the years go on. Gaming will less about us and more about our kids and Nintendo is giving the kids what they want.

[dmaul1114]

We might shun the next Nintendo console but the younger generation that's being raised on the Wii will flock to it. Nintendo is catering to them while Sony and Microsoft will cater to the ever shrinking hardcore. I say ever shrinking because most of us are getting advanced in our careers (or starting them). Most of us are having more kids and don't have time to game and will buy less and less games as the years go on. Gaming will less about us and more about our kids and Nintendo is giving the kids what they want.

It's not shrinking. As we get older and game less, last generations kids are turning into teens and college students and buying more games and playing more games.

Kids that started on Wii this generation will be buying other consoles (along with Nintendo's) ins the future when they're older and making their own money. Hell, a lot of kids already play the other consoles--just get on X-box live sometime and see how many kids you run into.

The market for what Nintendo is doing will be there in the future, and so will the "hardcore." Neither is shinking. New kids are born and introduced to Nintendo and simple games, and as we get old and busy and stop gaming as much kids grow up and take our places in the "hardcore." Neither type of gaming is going anywhere.

[depascal22]

I shouldn't have said shrinking but changing. Just like we grew up on Atari and NES and grew up to love Goldeneye, these kids are loving Mario Kart and Super Mario Galaxy. They won't be playing these games forever but Nintendo has figured out that it's better to cater to families than to the hardcore.

[dmaul1114]

I shouldn't have said shrinking but changing. Just like we grew up on Atari and NES and grew up to love Goldeneye, these kids are loving Mario Kart and Super Mario Galaxy. They won't be playing these games forever but Nintendo has figured out that it's better to cater to families than to the hardcore.

Absolutely. They couldn't compete with the "hardcore" as the last two generations showed.

The hardcore isn't shrinking, it's just as kids get older they get less interested in Nintendo's franchises and into stuff like Halo, GTA, Gears of War etc. Just like we got into Goldeneye, Metal Gear Solid, etc.

Of course many people grow up and still play Nintendo franchises, I still like a few of them myself, but their core appeal has always been to kids, and they've expanded that with the Wii and are raking in tons of $$$ as a result.

But Sony and MS will be just fine targeting the core gamers as that group isn't getting smaller, it's still growing with each generation. Nintendo expanding the market and getting more kids into gaming expands the core gamer market when the kids grow up.

[ninja dog]

I didn't notice "Fils-Anime" until now :lol:

okay, resume super serious thread where matters are settled once and for all.

[depascal22]

Getting back to the OP, Reggie's right. Every time something comes out about a beloved franchise or a new console/handheld, people come out and bash it even before they get to play it. The hardcore obsess about it and are quick to bash if one detail isn't just right. Mario Kart had to be revolutionary even though it hasn't been revolutionary since the first one. People will willingly play the same old crap on Halo 3 but somehow expect more from Smash Bros.

We've gotten a Zelda, Mario, Mario Kart, Metroid, and Smash Bros. already and people just want more. Nothing is good enough. The Wii Fit is destroying gaming! Why doesn't the Wii cater to my needs? It's starting to get ridiculous.

[ZForce]

I didn't notice "Fils-Anime" until now :lol:

okay, resume super serious thread where matters are settled once and for all.

http://www.roflcat.com/images/cats/270911970_db35fdd4ca.jpg

CARRY ON!

[tiredfornow]

:rofl:

Great thread.

[benjamouth]

We believe today that we have shown a plethora of games and genres that can satisfy the most casual to the most core. Even that doesn't seem like it's enough.


No you don't believe that, you couldn't care less as long as the Wii and DS keep selling.

Appealing to the casual Market was a very intelligent thing for Nintendo to do, but to say that you believe there's enough games out for the "most core" is either naive or incredibly stupid, or a meaningless sound bite.

[Mr. Beef]

Well, technically, we haven't gotten an actual Zelda game made for the Wii yet. :-\"

Jekki ended the thread a few pages back. If Ninty ain't making something that you like, then don't play the Wii, and play something else. Hell, Castle Crashers is good enogh for me right now, as well as MM9.

[Irukandji]

real "hardcore" gamers buy all the consoles so they don't run out of games to play. i've never run out of games. is that even possible? i almost always have to many.

[Rebelphoenix]

This is exactly why the Wii isn't my main method of playing games.

[smoger]

i dunno guys... i consider myself a "hardcore" gamer and i own something like 20 wii titles(and i dont hold on to stuff that im not that into)

i'm also the type of gamer who's not going to turn his nose up at a casual game like peggle.. after all, how many of us spent countless hours playing green and black tetris on our brick Gameboys back in the day? so does that destroy my 'cred'? does that make me a casual gamer? or maybe it's because ive played only a total of 15 minutes of a halo game in my entire life. on the other hand, i've sat and played hours of MUDs and can remember downloading Apogee demos from a BBS over a 9600baud modem. I've explored caves and dungeons while never being able to see them, aside from the image conjured in my head by the written description on the screen. i've taken pads full of notes and drawn my own maps.

so , my point? it's impossible to define a hardcore gamer. you either like games or you dont. the key in all this is to buy the games you're going to like, and ignore the ones you won't. notice i did not say "complain about" the ones you won't like.. IGNORE THEM.

Reggie's statement is completely true except he's being political about it. it's not that "hardcore gamers" are insatiable,.. it's just that a lot of people are going to feel wronged no matter what, and feel an overextending sense of entitlement. these people need to understand that Nintendo's developmenet choices do not revolve around them. They need to inform themselves and find the great games - and trust me, they ARE out there -

And most importantly.. stop asking Nintendo for things like a new Zelda or Mario in less than 2 years after the previous ones. A 2-year-to-market Zelda is not a Zelda i'd be thrilled about playing.

Cliff Notes..
1. Nintendo is not out to satisfy any one person in particular
2. Trying to define "hardcore gamer" is stupid
3. There are TONS of great(and cheap) games on the Wii - put in the effort to read up on things and you will find them
4. When Zelda, Mario, and Metroid start coming out every year or two, they're going to suffer from rushed production.(thankfully, Nintendo would never bow to this)

[pochaccoheaven]

i dunno guys... i consider myself a "hardcore" gamer and i own something like 20 wii titles(and i dont hold on to stuff that im not that into)

i'm also the type of gamer who's not going to turn his nose up at a casual game like peggle.. after all, how many of us spent countless hours playing green and black tetris on our brick Gameboys back in the day? so does that destroy my 'cred'? does that make me a casual gamer? or maybe it's because ive played only a total of 15 minutes of a halo game in my entire life. on the other hand, i've sat and played hours of MUDs and can remember downloading Apogee demos from a BBS over a 9600baud modem. I've explored caves and dungeons while never being able to see them, aside from the image conjured in my head by the written description on the screen. i've taken pads full of notes and drawn my own maps.

so , my point? it's impossible to define a hardcore gamer. you either like games or you dont. the key in all this is to buy the games you're going to like, and ignore the ones you won't. notice i did not say "complain about" the ones you won't like.. IGNORE THEM.

Reggie's statement is completely true except he's being political about it. it's not that "hardcore gamers" are insatiable,.. it's just that a lot of people are going to feel wronged no matter what, and feel an overextending sense of entitlement. these people need to understand that Nintendo's developmenet choices do not revolve around them. They need to inform themselves and find the great games - and trust me, they ARE out there -

And most importantly.. stop asking Nintendo for things like a new Zelda or Mario in less than 2 years after the previous ones. A 2-year-to-market Zelda is not a Zelda i'd be thrilled about playing.

Cliff Notes..
1. Nintendo is not out to satisfy any one person in particular
2. Trying to define "hardcore gamer" is stupid
3. There are TONS of great(and cheap) games on the Wii - put in the effort to read up on things and you will find them
4. When Zelda, Mario, and Metroid start coming out every year or two, they're going to suffer from rushed production.(thankfully, Nintendo would never bow to this)

this guy is correct. remember that nintendo is targeting everyone. everyone as in a game that targets one particular group or every group or both. electronic arts on their sports games for instance targets both groups and it doesn't mean they ditched one or the other. btw, the "hardcore" are narcissistic and when they don't get their way they cry and whine about it. proof, diablo 3.

[jer7583]

Just give us Mother 3 already you evil, evil NOA you.

They know what the hardcore want, and it's not that hard to give it to them, they just don't give a shit. Mother 1 is already translated and owned by them, Earthbound could be put on the VC any day they want to, and Mother 3 on DS would take all of .005 percent of their precious wii money to bring to america, while giving endless amounts of goodwill to gamers in America.

fuck

[n8n8baby]

Similarly, I'd love to know what those of you who actually enjoy the Wii are on. :D

It's called "having friends to play with." You should look into it.

But seriously, in my opinion, the Wii is by far the best machine to play with multiple friends in the same room (and DS is second). When I want to play alone, my time is distributed between all of the last 3 generations worth of consoles, plus PC, emulators, etc. There are a lot of great games out there...for all machines. If you don't have any friends or are too insecure in your manliness to be able to appreciate colorful non-violent games, go back to your parent's basement, play your 360, and shut the fuck up.

[dyeknom]

Wait, is this thread about the Wii getting Halo? If so, I'm so excited. I love Halo so much I want to take it to a bar, get it drunk and have little Halo Jr. Babies.

Hardcore gamer? Softcore gamer? Casuals? Friendlies? SRS GAMING LEAGUES? Fanboys? Counter-fanboy fanboys? Every thread gets so derailed so quickly over this crap. Let me break out the paddle to beat the dead horse (it died of natural causes, back off PETA).

Mirror, Mirror. Who has the most hardcore gamers of them all?
Answer: Nobody. We're just as full of posers and 8 year olds as any other industry... Hey, who is up for the good old cliche that they liked video games before they were popular?

[dmaul1114]

Getting back to the OP, Reggie's right. Every time something comes out about a beloved franchise or a new console/handheld, people come out and bash it even before they get to play it. The hardcore obsess about it and are quick to bash if one detail isn't just right. Mario Kart had to be revolutionary even though it hasn't been revolutionary since the first one. People will willingly play the same old crap on Halo 3 but somehow expect more from Smash Bros.

We've gotten a Zelda, Mario, Mario Kart, Metroid, and Smash Bros. already and people just want more. Nothing is good enough. The Wii Fit is destroying gaming! Why doesn't the Wii cater to my needs? It's starting to get ridiculous.

I agree with this as well. Nintendo has done a great job of getting their first party games out. People have nothing to bitch about. People should've known from the past two generation that there wouldn't be a whole lot to play on a Nintendo console besides Nintendo games. Their 3rd party support has been pretty crappy from the N64 on.

If one sees nothing else they want to play, then sell it like I did. I enjoyed Mario, Metroid and Zelda, saw little else I wanted since that's all their franchises I like, so I wised up and got rid of it. Others complaining should do the same, or just shut up and wait out the drought until the next round of big franchise games rolls along.

[dmaul1114]

It's called "having friends to play with." You should look into it.

But seriously, in my opinion, the Wii is by far the best machine to play with multiple friends in the same room (and DS is second).

Disagree. My friends and I didn't care for it much, and much prefer playing 360 multiplayer. Guitar Hero, Gears of War co-op, fighting games etc.

The Wii was good for parties when we had a lot of non-gamers over, but I don't have big parties at my place often as I hate cleaning up the mess.

So it's just a matter of different strokes for different folks. The Wii offers a very different style of gaming from the 360/PS3 and simply isn't for everyone. There's nothing wrong with it, just aside from Mario, Metroid and Zelda the games weren't my bag as I mainly only like FPS and western RPG games these days. Others have different tastes and have tons of Wii games they like.

Different strokes for different folks. No need to toss out a bunch of petty insults about people not having friends or living in their mom's basement just because they don't enjoy the type of gaming the Wii offers.

[Blackout]

I don't even know where to begin with his statement. I really wish Nintendo could convince me to just own their home console, and I won't feel like I'm really missing out on some quality titles by not buying the competition. They haven't been able to do that for me since the SNES. I just get tired of hearing them mention the same old games as they try to please the "hardcore" crowd. They should just stick to their method and keep making all that money. They don't even need to bother with it anymore. I don't need 40 new games in the span of 3 months. Mario games don't interest me. Gimmick games don't interest me. Zelda games don't interest me. Nothing on the Wii interests me. It has nothing to do with "OMG why can't I buy a new game every 5 minutes?"

[seanr1221]

This is pretty simple. Nintendo doesn't CARE about the hardcore gamer anymore. They've shifted gears. People who don't know much about games bring them most of their money now. No point complaining about it, because Nintendo is a business, and they're obviously doing great targeting the casual market. That's pretty much it.

It's easier just to grab a 360 or PS3 and be done.

[cochesecochese]

Just give us Mother 3 already you evil, evil NOA you.

They know what the hardcore want, and it's not that hard to give it to them, they just don't give a shit. Mother 1 is already translated and owned by them, Earthbound could be put on the VC any day they want to, and Mother 3 on DS would take all of .005 percent of their precious wii money to bring to america, while giving endless amounts of goodwill to gamers in America.

Yeah. Not happening.

NOA can't/won't make any money by releasing Mother stateside. It's not going to happen. The fan translation is less than a month away so it's all good.

[chakan]

Gee, it must be rough to have a customer base that can't wait to give you more money. If only every sector of our economy had his problem.

[guinaevere]

Damn. This thread is decidedly less sexy than I hoped for when I read "insatiable"
Lord Kefka... you're insatiable.

Brute Force.Dont you mess with Brute Force, Strell.

Title has been fixed. And, haven't we been through all this when e3 ended this year?

[io]

About the only one applicable on that list is Metroid, and that game gets so little attention it's downright criminal.

Yeah, the defining moment on that for me was when Cheapy and Wombat discussed it on the CAGcast and Cheapy siad he's sure it is great, but with single-player games like this there's no need to play it any time soon since there's no online component to get in on. But then he goes off and plays all the AAA 360 single-player games ASAP (Bioshock, Mass Effect, Stranglehold ;), etc)... I thought Metroid was an awesome game that showed that Wii controls (pointer at least and not so much the waggle) could be done very well for a "traditional" game. And it had graphics that came close to matching the 360 ('cept for them jaggies - gotta hate the jaggies).

But yeah, I have a ton of Wii games I haven't had the time to get to (along with tons of 360 games too). Frankly, I don't want any more new games to come out for any systems for a year so I can catch up. I call time out.

on the other hand, i've sat and played hours of MUDs and can remember downloading Apogee demos from a BBS over a 9600baud modem. I've explored caves and dungeons while never being able to see them, aside from the image conjured in my head by the written description on the screen. i've taken pads full of notes and drawn my own maps.

Wow, a blasto from my pasto ;). But 9600 baud? Damned whippersnapper!

[evanft]

Let's do a comparison. Here's what's coming out for the three systems that I'm looking forward to in some way this year or the beginning of next year:

PS3/360
Call of Duty: World At War
Dead Space
Fallout 3
Far Cry 2
Guitar Hero: World Tour
Prince of Persia
Resident Evil 5
Saints Row 2
Skate 2
Tom Clancy's EndWar

360
Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts
Fable 2
Gears of War 2
Last Remnant

PS3
Little Big Planet
Resistance 2
SOCOM: Confrontation

Wii
Animal Crossing: City Folk

[FloodsAreUponUS]

Title has been fixed. And, haven't we been through all this when e3 ended this year?

Why you go and fix a good thing?

[io]

OK, I can play this game too. I've adjusted your quote for what I'm interested in:

Let's do a comparison. Here's what's coming out for the three systems that I'm looking forward to in some way this year or the beginning of next year:

PS3/360
Call of Duty: World At War
Dead Space
Fallout 3
Far Cry 2
Guitar Hero: World Tour (note, this is also coming out for Wii, so it was cheap to call it "PS3/360" only)
Prince of Persia
Resident Evil 5
Saints Row 2
Skate 2
Tom Clancy's EndWar

360
Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts
Fable 2
Gears of War 2
Last Remnant

PS3
Little Big Planet
Resistance 2
SOCOM: Confrontation

Wii
Animal Crossing: City Folk
Tales of Symphonia 2

So yeah, I guess I'll hold off on that PS3 purchase for a little while longer ;). No doubt there's some good stuff for the 360 coming out, even in the non-shooter category. But I'm glad I have both the 360 and the Wii. I also need to finish WarioWorld and rent or purchase de Blob to catch up on some recent releases (while nothing has come out for the 360 in a while that I've wanted except I'd probably want to play Lego Batman on the 360).

[dmaul1114]

Yeah, it's just totally a case of different strokes for different folks. I mainly play shooters, western RPGs and the occasional sports game or fighting game so there's a lot that appeals to me on the 360 and PS3 and not much of anything on the Wii as it pretty much blows for those genres.

[soonersfan60]

dmaul, you forgot to mention that you ditched your Wii also, in case there are any newbies reading this thread... :roll:

[Nibi]

Yeah, and...?

[ninja dog]

The wii the that is and us we the that is.

[dmaul1114]

dmaul, you forgot to mention that you ditched your Wii also, in case there are any newbies reading this thread... :roll:

There's no way not to be repetitive in these dumbass threads. The only response to fanboy nonsense, lists of games people are looking forward to on one console or another is simply "different strokes for different folks."

The fact that people have loyalty to any of these companies drive me nuts. I have loyalty to any companies in any industry, they all exist soley to bend us over and screw us for as much money as possible. Just buy the console(s) that have the games you want to play, and play them and talk about them rather than going on the net and being a little, nerdy fanboy loser defending the company who sold you an overpriced hunk of plastic.

[Lord_Kefka]

Lord Kefka... you're insatiable.

Dont you mess with Brute Force, Strell.

Title has been fixed. And, haven't we been through all this when e3 ended this year?

QFT. Ha, got it now! :)

Back on topic, being a big Nintendo fan all my life I'd say we're just more disappointed. The level of game has been stepped up dramatically. Nintendo has made a very wise sales choice in going family centered and getting it right. The Wii continues to be a "fad" as it's been called for multiple years and is still going strong.

While my business has gone to Microsoft, I still get warm fuzzies from Nintendo characters and games. There's just not enough of them for me. And that seems like the point that Reggie was making. Not enough AAA titles. But that has to come from third parties too. And many of the big developers have had difficulty with Wii since it's such a different machine and adjusting the port is more like a remake. So then unless it's created for the Wii specifically, it's been seen as "lesser" than the version on the other systems.

And let's not mention the wave of cheap, poorly made games. I don't need another Mario or Zelda right now, but I need something big. And Animal Crossing and Wii Music just isn't cutting it for the "hardcore" gamer. We need a little more meat in there. I don't think I'd be satisfied with the games on Wii.

Then again....I'm insatiable. ;)

[Dr Mario Kart]

Just buy the console(s) that have the games you want to play, and play them and talk about them
Isnt this THE EXACT OPPOSITE of what you normally do in threads related to the Wii?

[Halo05]

Lets all google insatiable and post the pics here.

http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/lka0025l.jpg

[Dr Mario Kart]

I dont go into every 360/PS3 related thread and bitch about how the games arent for me and how I ditched the 360 (I bought one at launch for use at a convention). I should hope that it wouldnt be tolerated if I did.

Surely you can at least recognize that it would be at least ANNOYING if I did do that.

[Lord_Kefka]

Lets all google insatiable and post the pics here.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f121/LordKefkaROC/insatiable_poster.jpg

[dmaul1114]

Isnt this THE EXACT OPPOSITE of what you normally do in threads related to the Wii?

I'm not saying people can have reasonable discussions of the pros and cons of consoles, but these threads always go way overboard with people defending/promoting their console of choice rather than just saying what they like or dislike about consoles and not giving a shit what others say.

The problem is people go out of the way to bash the consoles they don't like or, conversely, to promote/defend the ones they do. i.e. fanboys like you think I'm bashing Nintendo when I simply say it's not for me as it doesn't have the type of games or gaming experience (graphics, controls, online etc.) I enjoy. Making statements like that is fine IMO. The problem is people who just say "Wii sucks" and with people who get pissed off over simple statements like what I've posted. There's no reason to take gaming that serious. Games are fun time wasters. Nothing more.

I dont go into every 360/PS3 related thread and bitch about how the games arent for me and how I ditched the 360 (I bought one at launch for use at a convention). I should hope that it wouldnt be tolerated if I did.

Surely you can at least recognize that it would be at least ANNOYING if I did do that.

Well genius, this is a thread specifically realted to COMPLAINTS about the Wii, and is posted in general gaming. It's not like I went in the Wii forum and posted such comments. It's a thread about the Wii lacking core games.

You only own the Wii and a DS and absolutely hate the competition. Why don't you just stay the fuck out of general gaming and stay in the Wii and DS forums and you're nerdy fanboy sensibilities won't be offended by negative comments about your precious Nintendo. Better yet, since you hate online and any thing related to technology, why don't you just stay off the internet period?

[soonersfan60]

There's no way not to be repetitive in these dumbass threads. The only response to fanboy nonsense, lists of games people are looking forward to on one console or another is simply "different strokes for different folks."

The fact that people have loyalty to any of these companies drive me nuts. I have loyalty to any companies in any industry, they all exist soley to bend us over and screw us for as much money as possible. Just buy the console(s) that have the games you want to play, and play them and talk about them rather than going on the net and being a little, nerdy fanboy loser defending the company who sold you an overpriced hunk of plastic.

I really haven't seen much in this thread that I would deem to be "fanboy" stuff, but you seem to have the need to search it out no matter what thread it is in. And actually, if it's in a Wii thread, I don't really see the problem with "fanboy" stuff anyway. Most people who are in a Wii thread actually like the Wii (present company excepted). The only time when "fanboy" stuff should annoy you or anyone is when it is by people who talk about a console other than the topic of the thread (which is what you always seem to enjoy doing).

Edit: And "Reggie" in the title makes this a Wii thread, even if it is in the "General Gaming" forum...

[antlp89]

Nintendo needs more third party support in order to please gamers. One good nintendo game a year won't cut it.

[Rei no Otaku]

Well genius, this is a thread specifically realted to COMPLAINTS about the Wii, and is posted in general gaming. It's not like I went in the Wii forum and posted such comments. It's a thread about the Wii lacking core games.

You only own the Wii and a DS and absolutely hate the competition. Why don't you just stay the fuck out of general gaming and stay in the Wii and DS forums and you're nerdy fanboy sensibilities won't be offended by negative comments about your precious Nintendo. Better yet, since you hate online and any thing related to technology, why don't you just stay off the internet period?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/Shinji2120/kaneklaplt7.gif

[dmaul1114]

Edit: And "Reggie" in the title makes this a Wii thread, even if it is in the "General Gaming" forum...

I never said it wasn't a Wii thread. I said it was a Wii thread related to people's thoughts about the core games (or lack of them) on the Wii, and thus posting negative opinions on the Wii library is perfectly on topic. And not a thread crap as DMK was implying. If he doesn't want to read negative opinions on the Wii, then he should stay out of general gaming and especially from a thread like this where it's sole purpose is to discuss the console's game line up.

And if he thinks my posts are annoying or repetitive, he can put me on ignore as I've encouraged him to do multiple times.

[Dr Mario Kart]

You mistake my loyalty to principles as loyalty to a company. I will likely hate Nintendo's home console division like no other next cycle. You can expect I wont be visiting WiiHD threads.

Regarding the ignore function, this is a problem I've brought up in the help subforum before. Its not robust enough. There is a second level of ignore that may not exist anymore that I've seen used before, where the offending poster's post dont show up at all. Therefore they cant be quoted either. Something like that, to where you cant see that the poster has made a post at all, and that posts showing quotes of the source post will not be shown as well.

[dmaul1114]

If my posts so offend you, put me on ignore, and have the will power to not respond to my posts if they happen to get quoted. It's not rocket science.

And again, if you're so opposed to technological advancements, stay under your fucking rock and off the fucking internet.

[ninja dog]

or we could discuss things without having to "win" and agree to disagree instead.

It's not rocket surgery.

[Dr Mario Kart]

Again, I'm not opposed to technological development. I just want the technology to be used a certain way. I'm pro waggle and I'm super pro for Square-Enix's mind control device and any similar experiments to actually improve the interface. I intend to be for VR someday depending on its implementation.

[Monsta Mack]

Yeah there is not enough porn on the Wii.
Plus theres no Captain Rainbow in the US right now.
Fuck you Nintendo. Fuck you.

[rothgar24]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/Shinji2120/kaneklaplt7.gif


Lol. That guy is insatiable. Rosebud motherfuckers. Oh and I'm not excited about any games on the wii. I don't even pay attention to the previews and such. I'm focused on the DS.

[depascal22]

I think the point alot of us were making is that Reggie is right. Everyone likes to bitch bitch bitch.

There's three great consoles and two great handhelds on the market right now. With all these choices, there's got to be something you'll enjoy. Instead of bitching about what you don't have (which is what alot of you like to do), rejoice in what you do have. Be thankful that the video game industry is big enough to support five different platforms. Be thankful that we have a way to play hardcore shooters and fun casual games.

My question to the hardcore Wii owners is this: What did you expect? Seriously, every franchise has seen a Wii version. It might not be exactly what you want but Nintendo has released a new Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Smash Bros., Mario Kart, Mario Party, and soon to be Animal Crossing. Every major franchise under Nintendo's umbrella has been covered. Not every one of them can be the best game in the history of the franchise. All of you that think otherwise are hopelessly naive. You'll never get any enjoyment from anything because it always sucks.

[FloodsAreUponUS]

I think the point alot of us were making is that Reggie is right. Everyone likes to bitch bitch bitch.

There's three great consoles and two great handhelds on the market right now. With all these choices, there's got to be something you'll enjoy. Instead of bitching about what you don't have (which is what alot of you like to do), rejoice in what you do have. Be thankful that the video game industry is big enough to support five different platforms. Be thankful that we have a way to play hardcore shooters and fun casual games.

My question to the hardcore Wii owners is this: What did you expect? Seriously, every franchise has seen a Wii version. It might not be exactly what you want but Nintendo has released a new Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Smash Bros., Mario Kart, Mario Party, and soon to be Animal Crossing. Every major franchise under Nintendo's umbrella has been covered. Not every one of them can be the best game in the history of the franchise. All of you that think otherwise are hopelessly naive. You'll never get any enjoyment from anything because it always sucks.

Once I get Shenmue 3 I will stop bitching.

[dmaul1114]

I think the point alot of us were making is that Reggie is right. Everyone likes to bitch bitch bitch.

There's three great consoles and two great handhelds on the market right now. With all these choices, there's got to be something you'll enjoy. Instead of bitching about what you don't have (which is what alot of you like to do), rejoice in what you do have. Be thankful that the video game industry is big enough to support five different platforms. Be thankful that we have a way to play hardcore shooters and fun casual games.



My question to the hardcore Wii owners is this: What did you expect? Seriously, every franchise has seen a Wii version. It might not be exactly what you want but Nintendo has released a new Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Smash Bros., Mario Kart, Mario Party, and soon to be Animal Crossing. Every major franchise under Nintendo's umbrella has been covered. Not every one of them can be the best game in the history of the franchise. All of you that think otherwise are hopelessly naive. You'll never get any enjoyment from anything because it always sucks.

For me, I'll admit I bought a Wii at launch for 2 reasons. Brand loyalty and I thought the PS3 and 360 were too expensive at the time. It was a mistake, and I'm glad I have a 360 and not a Wii now.

As for games, I was happy for the first 6 months. Mario, metroid and Zelda (even though it was a GC game) were very good. But after that there was nothing as I don't care for Smash Brothers and have long been sick of Mario Kart, and there was not (and still isn't) a single game on the horizon that interested me.

But I was smart enough to finally ditch the system and pick up a 360 rather than hold on to the Wii and keep bitching about the lack of games I want to play over and over and over again. Though again I'll admit I did that for a couple months longer than I should have this spring.

So I agree very much with the first part of your post. There are 3 consoles, 2 handhelds and PC gaming out there. People should be able to find plenty of games that interest them. They just need to buy the right console(s) and skip/ditch the ones they aren't enjoying.

[Halo05]

Once I get Shenmue 3 I will stop bitching.

You have a lifetime of bitching ahead of you.

I'll stop bitching when Sega gets back to making the best games on the planet and reenters the hardware business.

I too have a lifetime of bitching ahead of me.

[camoor]

Regarding the ignore function, this is a problem I've brought up in the help subforum before. Its not robust enough. There is a second level of ignore that may not exist anymore that I've seen used before, where the offending poster's post dont show up at all. Therefore they cant be quoted either. Something like that, to where you cant see that the poster has made a post at all, and that posts showing quotes of the source post will not be shown as well.

:lol:

[FloodsAreUponUS]

You have a lifetime of bitching ahead of you.

I'll stop bitching when Sega gets back to making the best games on the planet and reenters the hardware business.

I too have a lifetime of bitching ahead of me.

We shall bitch together forever.

[Casiotech]

basically gamers got spoiled with a new ps2 game coming out every other day.

it's not like it used to be where gamers played super mario world for 3 years before moving on to a new game.

[Casiotech]

are there any plans for starfox?

[crystalklear64]

I think the point alot of us were making is that Reggie is right. Everyone likes to bitch bitch bitch.

There's three great consoles and two great handhelds on the market right now.

And if you own a Wii + something else, you're probably fine. But the point is that the Wii doesn't offer enough to satisfy on its own, not that gamers can't be satisfied with everything. I only owned a Wii up until about 3 weeks ago. When a new Nintendo release would come, I would play and beat it on the first weekend I had free and then not touch the Wii until the next release with nothing to play inbetween. The only game to break that mold was SSBB, and that was thanks to the online multiplayer. After waiting for nintendo press events and such and seeing that nothing of interest was coming, I bought a 360. Now I am certainly satiated. With constant multplatform games and the exclusives of the 360 (plus all the previously released games I missed out on) along with (eventually I'm guessing) future first party titles of nintendo, I always have a game I could get and be happy with.

My question to the hardcore Wii owners is this: What did you expect?
Mainly, I expected quality and inventive games. Not only from nintendo, but from 3rd parties. You're right that Nintendo first party stuff has been pretty well taken care of, but we need things from 3rd parties inbetween nintendo games. Of course I don't expect Nintendo to constantly release first party stuff, they've never done that, but in the past, there were quality games from 3rd party developers to bridge the gaps.

[Casiotech]

it's too bad 3rd parties don't want to deal with the wii, after seeing Zack and Wiki bomb, who can blame them?

the user base is 30 million + but the attach rate is probably 2 games per console, namely mario ones.

it seems that right now, nintendo just wants to push out their consoles. When sales fall, they'll start to shift towards making games for their new 60 million userbase or whatever. Because selling each wii owner a couple of new AAA game is almost the equivalent of selling another 30 million consoles.

nintendo makes their money on hardware whereas all other companies make it on software and online service. Which is fine because selling 1 console at a profit with 2 games as opposed to a console at a loss but with 6-8 games is a way better strategy I believe. Lets not forget those subscriptions! Subscriptions are always the most profitable thing in almost any industry.


Doubt it will reach the 140 million of the ps2. But I'm curious to find out!

[mogamer]

Yeah. Not happening.

NOA can't/won't make any money by releasing Mother stateside. It's not going to happen. The fan translation is less than a month away so it's all good.
You really think that Nintendo couldn't make money on Mother 3 via Wiiware? With the rabid fanbase this series has they could move plenty of copies at $15. And the Secret Of Mana was just released on the VC. I'm sure Earthbound would sell just as many copies and Nintendo wouldn't have to split the money with SE. I mean look at some of the dreck that's been released on the VC, yet no Mother/Earthbound games. For whatever reason, NOA has no interest in this series and couldn't care less about how many people want to see it.

[Casiotech]

NOA will release Earthbound eventually.

[dmaul1114]

it's too bad 3rd parties don't want to deal with the wii, after seeing Zack and Wiki bomb, who can blame them?


Third parties shouldn't make much out of Z&W failing. Point and click adventures is a niche, at best, genre.

If third parties want to see if something sells, they need to make a top notch AAA game in a major genre like FPS and see how that sells. Likely it wouldn't sell well as the core Wii base isn't into such genres--thus the Wii is stuck with Nintendo franchises and casual games like Wii Fit as that's what the bulk of the user base bought the console for. So third parties are kind of limited to those genres if they want to sell big numbers, and better off going to the 360/PS3 if they want to put out FPS games, action games, RPGs etc.

[depascal22]

But the point is that the Wii doesn't offer enough to satisfy on its own, not that gamers can't be satisfied with everything.

You make a great point. My thing is, why would anyone expect the Wii to be different than the Gamecube? The Gamecube had great Nintendo games and so so support from 3rd party publishers.

The Wii has a much bigger base but nothing that would make a 3rd party publisher want to publish a game. Like you said, Zack & Wiki bombed. So you have a system that's in every house but everyone is just playing one or two games. Kids are getting a birthday present and a Christmas present and it's not being wasted on hardcore games. Everyone can bitch about it or find a system with the games you want.

[dmaul1114]

Yeah, that was a point I made earlier. Neither the N64 or GC offered nearly enough core games to satisfy a "hardcore" gamer, so people were silly to expect anything different this time.

For "hardcore" gamers the Wii really won't work as a sole console. But it's a nice complement to the PS3/360 if you like the types of games on the Wii as it offers something much different than those two consoles.

[cochesecochese]

You really think that Nintendo couldn't make money on Mother 3 via Wiiware?

Not enough to make it worthwhile, no. To translate it and then either code a GBA emulator to WiiWare or port the game to some other container it would cost a small fortune. I really and truly doubt Nintendo would sell more than 30k copies of it as well. The game just has no appeal outside of 'gamer' circles.

[depascal22]

Yeah, the whole rabid fanbase for Mother 3 is a little misleading. I have no doubt that alot of people would love to see the game on the VC but it's nothing like the people lining up to get Madden or Halo. Those are rabid fanbases.

[chubbyninja1319]

I f'ing hate Reggie. At one point I thought he was the wisest player in the industry. Now, he's just a corporate tool. Granted, I understand that companies are in business to make money. But, what about soul? He ripped the soul out of Nintendo. This is especially surprising coming from a Japanese company where they have values and pride. Not anymore.

Here's the thing....Nintendo needs to make games that I (and anyone else I talk to that isn't a recently converted Mom...no i'm not being facecious) want to play. I own three games for the Wii, the very system I camped out for when it launched. They are Wii Sports, Zelda and Disney Princess for my 3 year old Daughter.

So, do reply to Reggie directly, "Sir, you've slapped your "core" fans in the face enough over the last few years. Please restrain yourself from verbally attacking those who actually stuck with the company during the Nintendo 64 days. It's classless."

Thank you, i'm off my soapbox now.

[cochesecochese]

I f'ing hate Reggie. At one point I thought he was the wisest player in the industry. Now, he's just a corporate tool. Granted, I understand that companies are in business to make money. But, what about soul? He ripped the soul out of Nintendo. This is especially surprising coming from a Japanese company where they have values and pride. Not anymore.

NOA has always been under an incredibly short leash to NCL. Come on, deep down you know all that shit Reggie was talking was an act. Yamauchi is one psychopathic bastard and he built the hierarchy that controlled all of Nintendo.

[Casiotech]

nintendo doesn't care about the n64 people. They have a new fanbase now (grandma and grandson) they don't need any of you.

[mogamer]

Yeah, the whole rabid fanbase for Mother 3 is a little misleading. I have no doubt that alot of people would love to see the game on the VC but it's nothing like the people lining up to get Madden or Halo. Those are rabid fanbases.

Well I didn't say large fanbase, I said rabid! ;)

Concerning sales, have any numbers been released anywhere (Nintendo or developer) on Wiiware sales? Would 30K be a good number or is it 100K? From what I saw on VC game sales a few months back, dl games don't sell as well as I had thought they would.

[depascal22]

Well I didn't say large fanbase, I said rabid! ;)

That's why it's not coming out. They could go through the effort but the rabid fanbase might not buy it because of who did the translation or the color palette was a little off or the sound was slightly garbled. It's not worth the time and effort because fanboys are never satisfied. Why throw the rabid fanbase a bone when they'll just spit right back?

[Ryuukishi]

I'm feeling Reggie on this one... All you guys who go through like five new games a month, I don't know how you play them that fast. I think it's kind of sad that a new game has to make all of its sales in the first two weeks, because anything older than that has already been discarded and forgotten by the 'hardcore' who've moved on to the next big hype. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned how Super Mario Bros. 3 was popular for years and years... maybe that wasn't a bad thing.

Ah well, you guys have your 360 and I have my Wii. (Still working on Super Mario Galaxy and No More Heroes! ;))

[depascal22]

Super Mario Bros. 3 was popular because gamers used to get one or two games a year. The demographic for gaming was much younger back then. We've grown up with games and now we have disposable income that can be used instead of begging for games for Christmas and birthday.

[dmaul1114]

Yeah, that's a big part of it. But even when I was young (I was 11 or 12 when SMB3 came out in 1990--don't recall the month it launched) I didn't play games over and over that much.

I certainly replayed games more than I do now, both due to having to depend on my parents to buy games and games being much shorter back then. But generally I'd still just beat a game and not play it all that much afterwards. I'd just do other stuff besides gaming when I had beaten all the games I had at the time, generally sports since I played a lot when I was younger. But gaming's never been my number 1 hobby, so it may have been different for others.

[depascal22]

I agree with that. I was always outside so I never really needed that many games in the first place. SMB3 and Sonic were the games that could be played over and over though.