Another person looking for eBay advice *another update*

[judyjudyjudy]

Alright guys, so I recently won this auction:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8128422780

I've been looking for Mega Man Battle Network. While I already have Golden Sun and don't need that weird Gameboy case thingy, I figure I can trade them off and keep MMBN for myself. I see that Golden Sun has the map and everything, so it's obviously legit. As a result, I assume that Mega Man Battle Network is legit. However, I get this package, and it's totally a bootleg.

So I contact the guy, who apparently knows nothing about GBA games and was just selling his son's stuff. I tell him why its clearly a bootleg, and he says the lady that gave his son the game insists she bought it at Target. And then he points me to his return policy, which seems to imply I won't get refunded shipping or be covered for shipping it back. Shipping cost me $7 :( I don't want to blow $7 (or possibly $14) to return this load of turd. What's your guys' advice on this? Do you think Paypal's Buyer Protection will do any good? I'm still talking to the seller, who I think is pretty honest.

*******Conclusion

After almost two months since the transaction, Paypal finally decided on the matter. If I cover return shipping costs, I can get a refund. Which is not what I wanted. I wanted a partial return/refund or for him to cover shipping costs to return it. I was even able to submit a letter from Capcom that the Megaman Battle Network game was bootleg. I don't know what to do now. I've already left the guy a negative, and I've given up on Paypal. I'm think I will call my credit card company to try and do a chargeback. (I only paid part of it with credit card, so it wouldn't be the whole thing.) If you guys have any more advice, I'd really appreciate it.

********Another Update

I called my credit card company to ask about my options, and they were really helpful! I told them my situation, and they said they would cover my shipping costs to return the item :) So I can get my refund and not be at a loss.

[jimbodan]

I'd probably try and explain that selling bootlegs is illegal and that he could get in trouble for it, and since he is selling illegal goods I think I should get a FULL refund. If he still says no, then I'd probably threaten to get him in trouble with both e-bay and nintendo for selling bootlegs. It might scare him into doing it, or if not, it doesn't matter since he wasn't going to give you a full refund anyways.

[Tennisjon2002]

I'd probably try and explain that selling bootlegs is illegal and that he could get in trouble for it, and since he is selling illegal goods I think I should get a FULL refund. If he still says no, then I'd probably threaten to get him in trouble with both e-bay and nintendo for selling bootlegs. It might scare him into doing it, or if not, it doesn't matter since he wasn't going to give you a full refund anyways.
Agreed tell him it is illegal and u will report him to the police, ebay nintendo etc, I wouldn't count on paypal doing much. Also tell him u don't want 2 have 2 leave negitive feedback for him

[zionoverfire]

He has a very high seller rating so threaten to leave negative feedback, I had a friend who got a bootleg Kill Bill Vol. 1, he complained and said he would leave negative feedback and his money was refunded and he didn't even have to return the item.

[judyjudyjudy]

Okay... before I had sent him this e-mail stating that the game I got didn't come from Target. And I also told him that the cardboard inside the Golden Sun box is probably from the Mega Man Battle Network box, since it was flimsy and had flaps like in bootleg games. (I, unfortunately, have a bootleg copy of Lunar Legend that is exactly like the MMBN game I got in many respects.) I guess this offended him, because then he sent this...

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Hello, I just checked your feedback, and you have sold games as a seller, so you obviously know about that market. That makes me question what you are implying about the Golden Sun game, and now more so about the Mega man game. My friend is looking in her receipts, & I folded the Mega man box down for storage.

The refund policy is for the auction price only, as in any internet sales.

G
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That totally pieved me, because it seems like he was implying something about me. And I'm already pissed because of the whole bootleg thing. So I send him this...

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Actually, I have no idea what your reference to my selling of games have to do with anything. All I know is that your Mega Man Battle Network is very much an illegal copy. (I have no idea what you are talking about with Golden Sun, as I told you all of it was legit. I just said that the piece of cardboard inside Golden Sun was probably from the Mega Man Battle Network box, as it looks a lot like the cardboard from the bootleg games. The only thing I might have been implying was that the contents were probably switched around.) I have already described to you all the reasons why it is clearly a bootleg. If you want, we can contact Nintendo and verify that it is indeed an illegal copy. I don't know what you think I'm trying to imply, and now you are implying something about me? All I know is that you sent me an illegal copy of a game, and you probably didn't know that it was illegal, and I want to fix the problem.

The only thing I really wanted in this auction was Mega Man Battle Network. I already have my own copy of Golden Sun. I looked at your auction and saw that you had all the contents for your Golden Sun game (bootlegs usually don't), so I figured your copy of Mega Man Battle Network would be legitimate. I do sell and trade games, so I was hoping to sell or trade it and cover the cost for the game I actually wanted. Of course, now with the Mega Man game being a bootleg copy, the whole purchase was really kind of pointless for me.

If you have any other suggestions, I'm open to them. I'm definitely not going to eat $14 for shipping and returning both ways because I was sent a bootleg game.

Judy
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Someone please tell me if I was overreacting or not. Trying to not turn into an uber-bitch here. BTW, thanks to everyone for the advice so far.

[Trakan]

You're not overreacting at all. I'd be alot more pissed about this than you are right now.

[bignick]

Was there a picture of the game in the autcion? I would report to paypal and ebay.

[judyjudyjudy]

Was there a picture of the game in the autcion? I would report to paypal and ebay.

There is, but it's too small to tell it's a bootleg. They actually put the Nintendo seals on this bootleg too. I have a bootleg of Lunar Legend, which has no Nintendo seals anywhere.

[pimp_daddy_smurf]

your positive its a bootleg? and is nintendo spelled correctly?

[judyjudyjudy]

No, it's spelled right :P But there's a lot of other tell-tale signs. This is exactly what I told him.
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The cartridge has cheap plastic, and the fonts molded on the cartridge that say "Gameboy Advance" on the front and the "Nintendo" on the back do not match the fonts of legitimate cartidges. Also, the actual board doesn't have the Nintendo brand (you look up into the opening of the cartridge, and you can usually see a "Nintendo" and a year and a serial number, but the cart you gave me doesn't). The back also usually says "Pat.Pend.Made in Japan" underneath where it says Nintendo. The box is also a cheap copy, as it is glossy.

The Nintendo website has some examples.

http://ap.nintendo.com/tab_06.html

If you look at the Advance Wars cartridge they have on the site, you can see how the front of the legitimate cartridge doesn't have a border around "Gameboy Advance" in the plastic. The cartridge you gave looks exactly like the counterfeit example with the border around it, same font and everything. I was already ripped off w/ a bootleg copy of another GBA game, which has all the same features of the Mega Man Battle Network cartridge you gave me (exact same sort of cartridge, cheap glossy box). If you compare your Golden Sun stuff (which is legit) with the Mega Man Battle Network things, it's really obvious. Most of the GBA game sellers on eBay who are from Asian locations (like Hong Kong) sell these sort of games. If you really want, I can send you pictures of the cartridges you sent me to compare.

Judy

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Edited to add: The back of my cart only had "Nintendo" not the Pat. pend stuff.

[judyjudyjudy]

*sigh* Okay, the guy (or gal) is basically saying I'm trying to rip him off now. He's offering me a refund that includes the original shipping price, which would be good if the shipping wasn't $7 and if it wasn't his own fault. I asked him for a partial refund for a partial return, but he's not taking it. I think I will be contacting Paypal and Nintendo now. Any idea on how prompt Nintendo is with e-mail? I tried calling them, but today's Labor Day :\

[video_gamer324]

Nintendo is pretty prompt with their replies - if you sent them something today or tomorrow, you should be able to get a reply no later than Friday. As for your seller, what you should do is return everything except for the bootleg. Because the bootleg is illegal and considered contraband, he cannot legally take any action against you. Since you'll then have the bootleg as evidence against him, you can go ahead and file for what it cost you to ship everything back to him.

[judyjudyjudy]

I guess I will wait for a response from Nintendo then. I don't plan on returning anything until I know for sure I will not lose any more money in shipping it back. This guy is so in denial of it being a bootleg, it really pisses me off. I sent them photos of the cart and linked them to a picture of an authentic cart in another auction, and they said it looked the same to them. argh.

[wubb]

Wow, I can't believe a seller that experienced isn't down right ashamed of selling a bootleg. I guess he really does think you are just trying to scam him.

Do a PayPal chargeback on his ass. I mean if Paypal won't let you chargeback over getting a freaking illegal copy of what you thought you were buying what damn good are they...

Or if you did a CC funded purchase just do a CC chargeback.

[judyjudyjudy]

I had paypal funds, so it made me use that (is there a way to get around that?) so only half was CC. And his son got the game as a gift from a friend, so I guess he'd rather believe his friend who claimed they got it from Target.

Here are pics if anyone's interested in seeing what a bootleg looks like: front (http://variableaspect.com/judyjudyjudy/trade/bootlegfront.JPG) back (http://variableaspect.com/judyjudyjudy/trade/bootlegback.JPG) box (http://variableaspect.com/judyjudyjudy/trade/bootlegboxback.JPG)

[wubb]

I don't think there is a way around using existing funds if you have them. I usually clean out my PayPal each time I sell a batch of stuff. But if you haven't linked a bank account or didn't have $10 in your account then you are pretty much stuck using existing funds. (I suppose you could request they send you a check, but then you're paying them another chunk of change... No thanks.)

Please keep us updated on what happens with this, I'm very interested in what if anything PayPal will do for you.

You may want to consider cutting your losses and eating the cost to ship it back to him (I'm not sure I understood one of your posts above, did you mean that he is now offering to refund your bid amount + the $7 S&H you paid, but not your return shipping costs?)

I love how he says his cart looks good to him. Hopefully you can get an official Nintendo response confirming it is a bootleg. That would be good stuff.

Judging by his eBay store he sells all types of games, but not video games. Dumbass should realize he didn't understand the product he was selling and do the right thing.

Oh, and you should report him to eBay as well. If you want to do that go here:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/contact_inline/report_listing.html

Choose:
* Report a Listing Policy Violation
* Prohibited / Banned Items
* Violated Copyright / Sold a counterfeit item.

You may want to wait until Nintendo confirms it's a bootleg before doing that. (Pasting in Nintendo's response would be very convincing evidence.) I don't think that will do anything for you, but it might make this guy's life more complicated.

This dude is flirting with getting his PayPal account suspended IMO, over not wanting to refund the S&H costs. Very stupd for someone who seems to sell on eBay a lot (and therefore probably uses PayPal a lot.)

[judyjudyjudy]

You may want to consider cutting your losses and eating the cost to ship it back to him (I'm not sure I understood one of your posts above, did you mean that he is now offering to refund your bid amount + the $7 S&H you paid, but not your return shipping costs?)


He offered to pay back the original shipping costs, but not return shipping. I suppose that's not so bad, but I'm still at a loss of $7 for his mistake and ignorance. I asked for a partial return for a partial refund (meaning I just return the bootleg game), which I thought was fair, but he insisted on the whole package.

I've already contacted Nintendo, so once I hear from them, I will contact Paypal and eBay. His insistence that it's not bootleg (despite me giving him practically a lecture on why it was bootleg) and accusatory remarks really makes me want to see this through.

Thanks for the great advice; I'll make sure to update.

[E-Z-B]

Send it back media mail with return confirmation. That's a lot cheaper.

[Rig]

Do not give in to this guy. Nintendo reacts quickly to any calls/emails sent to them. You should not lose any money on this auction.

[wubb]

Send it back media mail with return confirmation. That's a lot cheaper.

Cartridges don't qualify for media mail. (Just CD or DVD games.) So I wouldn't ship it media mail, you'd just possibly give him something to hold over your head, too.

[YoshiFan1]

Plus it's cheaper to send a GBA game through 1st class mail than Media Mail

[dsullo]

Boy I think I would of been fooled , maybe it is easier to tell it is a bootleg game in person rather then in a picture

[judyjudyjudy]

Send it back media mail with return confirmation. That's a lot cheaper.

Cartridges don't qualify for media mail. (Just CD or DVD games.) So I wouldn't ship it media mail, you'd just possibly give him something to hold over your head, too.

Plus, I don't think that massive Gameboy case would qualify for media mail either.

BTW, I was totally wrong about the cardboard in Golden Sun (it was just overly squashed), which is part of what pissed him off. All the Mega Man stuff (cart and box, no manual or inner cardboard) is still 100% bootleg though, which is the only part of the package I wanted to be fixed anyways. I'm kinda curious how Paypal/eBay deal with transactions where only part of the product is a problem.

My pictures are pretty blurry; my camera doesn't handle close things very well. I should probably retake them.

[judyjudyjudy]

updated with conclusion

[Dead of Knight]

That sucks balls. Fuck Paypal. Just do a chargeback.

[judyjudyjudy]

Can I still do a chargeback even though they "awarded" me the refund?

Nevermind, I think it's been resolved (see update)

[wubb]

So do you mean you will get the PayPal refund for the full amount + the S&H you paid the seller originally, and then your CC company will give you a credit for your return S&H costs? Or are you getting the entire credit back from the CC company (and going over PayPal's head)?

If it's option #1 that is very cool of your CC company, which bank/card is it if you don't mind saying? I might look into getting one of those.

If it's option #2, let me know if PayPal does anything in response to your going to your CC after they granted you a refund. (Not sure what they can really do.)

[judyjudyjudy]

Well, I didn't pay the whole amount by CC, so there's no way I would have gotten the whole amount back by CC via refund. Paypal said they would refund the full amount (including shipping) when the item was returned. I still had to pay the $7 bucks shipping to return the item, which still pieved me. So I called the bank of my CC, telling them my situation and asking what my options were. The customer rep was really nice and said he'd credit my account $7 to cover shipping to return it right then, so it wasn't a chargeback in any way. So, I was covered for shipping, and I shipped it back and I just got my refund yesterday. :) I'm glad with the result, but it still irks me that my CC company not the seller had to pay for shipping. (I'm on better terms with my CC company, obviously.) Btw, this credit card was with Bank One (which recently merged with Chase). The customer service rep's quote was "We're here to solve problems", and the way it was resolved really did solve my problem. I've found that they have been really good at resolving issues in general.

[wubb]

Glad it worked out for you in the end.

I'm not sure if many banks would do that or not, seems above and beyond to me. Pretty impressive.

Have you heard anything else from the seller? I assume PayPal has let him know he'll be getting his item back in the mail :D I wonder if he'll be covered by Seller Protection...

[judyjudyjudy]

Yup, I'm very satisfied with Bank One; they've been good to me. I'm sure they appreciate that I pay my bills on time too :)

I'm pretty sure Paypal alerts the seller of all progress made in their investigation, including the tracking number as soon as I submitted it. (He might have had to contact them about receiving the item too... I got my refund fairly quickly after delivery, and I doubt Paypal checks delivery status that often.) I emailed the seller before I sent back the item, reminding him again that I wasn't trying to rip him off and that the item was really a bootleg. I didn't get a response. I hope he's not covered for Seller Protectoin, because he sure doesn't deserve it (unlike the many other sellers that get ripped off by buyers/Paypal).

And I hope this guy isn't retarded enough to relist the Mega Man Battle Network game.

[Trakan]

You should report him if he does relist it.