Buy 1 get 1 at select car dealerships.

[MSI Magus]

So was just watching the news and they were covering the insane deals car dealerships are having to give right now to get people to buy cars. The standard was about 40% off sticker price however there were other more insane deals including a few dealerships that were actually doing a deal where if you bought a fully loaded truck you got one free and there was also a buy 1 get 1 on the Ford Focus.

This makes me seriously tempted to see what kind of deals I can get. We just payed off our 2000 Ford Focus last year and it was a pretty damn good vehicle. I believe they go for around $12/$13k normally so if with trade in or selling our car to someone else we could get a newer model for like $5k out of pocket.....that's mighty tempting.

[Koggit]

But aren't the only ones on sell the really wasteful POSs? Hybrids & other efficient cars are still selling pretty damn well, I wouldn't expect as much of a deal

[MSI Magus]

But aren't the only ones on sell the really wasteful POSs? Hybrids & other efficient cars are still selling pretty damn well, I wouldn't expect as much of a deal

The Ford Focus isnt bad at all. We have not had a problem with ours that wasnt self inflicted and the newer models get 30-35 MPG.

[kube00]

I have a 2008 focus, got it for $11k new so there decent cars.

[fatherofcaitlyn]

The Focus was a step down from the Escort. However, a Focus would be a good move in terms of gas mileage compared to most SUVs.

However, I would wait at least six months before buying a car from a company that might go bankrupt.

I don't really care if any one company goes bankrupt, but you might have a hard time finding replacement parts and any warranty is kaput in that case.

[MSI Magus]

The Focus was a step down from the Escort. However, a Focus would be a good move in terms of gas mileage compared to most SUVs.

However, I would wait at least six months before buying a car from a company that might go bankrupt.

I don't really care if any one company goes bankrupt, but you might have a hard time finding replacement parts and any warranty is kaput in that case.

Well I am not going to do it anyways because as I have stated here before my fiancee could loose her job and we only have about 6 months expenses saved.....so ya its a good idea to not buy a car right now ;)

Just posting because its extremely indicative of the times we are in and the automotive companies problems.

[Kirin Lemon]

Wow, fantastic deal on the Ford Focus. I love my 2004 Focus to death.

[Dead of Knight]

However, I would wait at least six months before buying a car from a company that might go bankrupt.

I don't really care if any one company goes bankrupt, but you might have a hard time finding replacement parts and any warranty is kaput in that case.

I like how the Big 3 are making their entire case around bankruptcy not being an option because they claim people won't buy cars froma bankrupt company. Dude, when people know a company is even in DANGER of going bankrupt like the Big 3 are, they won't buy from them. It's basically a self-fulfilling prophecy. Of course the Big 3 CEOs are beyond retarded and don't realize this. Consumers are already acting as if they are bankrupt; if they do go bankrupt, nothing will change on that end, and they may actually be able to restructure themselves back to profitability.

[MSI Magus]

Wow, fantastic deal on the Ford Focus. I love my 2004 Focus to death.

Ya I was pretty biased against Ford till my fiancee came along with her Focus. We have been together 4 years and she owned it 2 years before meeting me. We have had 1 big problem only that wasnt our fault.

[JJSP]

BOGO on a Focus? I'd totally buy one.

[xycury]

Ya I was pretty biased against Ford till my fiancee came along with her Focus. We have been together 4 years and she owned it 2 years before meeting me. We have had 1 big problem only that wasnt our fault.

Now if the Focus has been around for 8 years almost 9, with a good rep, then why didn't they slap on a Hybrid model like the Ford Escape has?

Surely then, one focus could get like 50-60mpg?

Anyways, if it's a 2 for 1, easy to split the cost, fantastic deal.

[QiG]

With BOGO, who cares about a warranty? Just yank the parts off the 2nd car for the primary one :D

[JolietJake]

Does this stack with edge?

I'm sorry, i had to do it.

[dafoomie]

My brother just bought a 2004 Ford Expedition for around 7 thousand, they're practically giving these things away. And before you start, we haul around a lot of people and a lot of crap on a regular basis.

Ford's incompetence may know no bounds, but they still know how to make a good truck.

[BillyBob29]

So I'm guessing Galpin Aston Martin isn't one of these "select dealerships?";)

[Hex]

I try to like my 2000 Focus, but it's been a bitch to me- broken window motors, broken climate controls and squeaky brakes. :cry:

[Dead of Knight]

My brother just bought a 2004 Ford Expedition for around 7 thousand, they're practically giving these things away. And before you start, we haul around a lot of people and a lot of crap on a regular basis.

Ford's incompetence may know no bounds, but they still know how to make a good truck.

I have zero problem with people buying trucks if they haul shit around. Unfortunately most people don't.

[MrFixit66]

Now if the Focus has been around for 8 years almost 9, with a good rep, then why didn't they slap on a Hybrid model like the Ford Escape has?

Surely then, one focus could get like 50-60mpg?


putting a hybrid in the focus would raise the cost way too much. besides, a new focus with a manual transmission can easily get 45mpg. and to the OP, just to let you know, there is no way you would get anything more than about 2k for a trade in on your 2000 focus.

[Allnatural]

I have zero problem with people buying trucks if they haul shit around. Unfortunately most people don't.
They need a big truck to haul around that huge, imaginary dick.

[dafoomie]

They need a big truck to haul around that huge, imaginary dick.
I think you're confusing trucks with Corvettes. But people like you need to understand that a Honda Fit is simply not practical for everyone. People actually need to do shit with their vehicles other than drive to and from work.

Yeah, a Ford Excursion is a silly thing for people who at most haul around a couple kids and some groceries. Those people learned a hard lesson over the summer. The biggest culprits were actually women who felt safer riding high on the road in their great big battleship of a car, by themselves on their daily commutes.

[Allnatural]

I think you're confusing trucks with Corvettes. But people like you need to understand that a Honda Fit is simply not practical for everyone. People actually need to do shit with their vehicles other than drive to and from work.
Actually, I couldn't care less what anyone buys. As a practical matter I'll probably never buy a truck, but if you want one or, more importantly, need one, then more power to you. However, when I see some douche bag driving an F-150 with a bed in pristine shape because he's never so much as thrown a bag of mulch in it, I have to wonder what the point is. *shrug*


[edit]
heh, responded before your edit. ;)

[dafoomie]

I don't believe in using the preview button.

I think Hummer is going to corner that market with their new pickup version. If you can afford the gas, you can afford the Hummer. And with the way they designed it, it looks so nice that you'd never dream of actually putting something in the bed.

[mykevermin]

The biggest culprits were actually women who felt safer riding high on the road in their great big battleship of a car, by themselves on their daily commutes.

Why just women?

[MSI Magus]

Why just women?

Because its true. Men have been using big trucks and other vehicles as penis replacers for year now women in the last 10 years started buying them talking about how it makes them feel big and safe.

[GuilewasNK]

I have zero problem with people buying trucks if they haul shit around. Unfortunately most people don't.

They need a big truck to haul around that huge, imaginary dick.


Or you could be extremely tall like me and can't fit into most economy vehicles. My sister used to have a Sentra and an Elentra and I couldn't get into either comfortably. The only cars I have had were a Thunderbird and a Continental which had poor gas mileage anyway.

That being said, I do haul stuff with my F-150 as needed and I got a base model with no frills.

[fatherofcaitlyn]

Or you could be extremely tall like me and can't fit into most economy vehicles. My sister used to have a Sentra and an Elentra and I couldn't get into either comfortably. The only cars I have had were a Thunderbird and a Continental which had poor gas mileage anyway.

That being said, I do haul stuff with my F-150 as needed and I got a base model with no frills.

You could always get your shins removed like:

http://z.about.com/d/animatedtv/1/7/Y/o/koh_DeathPicksCotton_gr1f.jpg

[GuilewasNK]

You could always get your shins removed like:

http://z.about.com/d/animatedtv/1/7/Y/o/koh_DeathPicksCotton_gr1f.jpg

:lol:

[xycury]

putting a hybrid in the focus would raise the cost way too much. besides, a new focus with a manual transmission can easily get 45mpg. and to the OP, just to let you know, there is no way you would get anything more than about 2k for a trade in on your 2000 focus.

Current pricing on a Civic hybrid is only 22K-23K.

I don't think a Focus, coming in around 11K is going to raise it that much.

I would guess a system like that would be about 5k-6k in price. 17K is not that too much to ask for.

And I do drive a manual, but not everyone.

Just stating, that if people were driving monster SUVs going for >20K then why not slap on in a Focus and proclaim to the world that this thing is getting 70mpg... still costing less than say their Ford Escape Hybrid.


If we look to Europe, they have small cars, and if we look to Japan, they too have small cars, just because we have the space to hold a couple Hummers on the road, doesn't mean we need to.

I hate trucks and single rider suvs. They serve a purpose that they aren't actually using.

I'm almost wishing that gas stayed at $4 just to push the SUVs in the ground and realize that a 20ish MPG is outdated and rediculous.

This is america, and I'm sure I'd be embarrassed if I cared more, but we should have innovated, and made the future of cars, but we're really about 10 years behind any other car manufacture and it's pathetic.

If I had someone to go in on the car, split the costs, I'd probably pick up a Focus or similar car.... when my Geo finally decides to take it's big nap in another 5 years.

[redline]

Might be some good deals on foreign cars soon too, they are piling up in the ports.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/business/economy/19ports.html

[Hex]

Might be some good deals on foreign cars soon too, they are piling up in the ports.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/business/economy/19ports.html

I've been slobbering over a Mazda3, think they'd let me have one on the cheapz?

[dmaul1114]

I've been slobbering over a Mazda3, think they'd let me have one on the cheapz?

It's a great car. I bought a 2008 last November. Didn't get much of a deal as it was right after the 2007 had all sold out everywhere around here, and I couldn't wait as my prior car was dying.

[Hex]

How much? :[

[dmaul1114]

How much? :[

$17,500 before trade in. You can do much better if you wait until spring/summer when they're starting to feel pressure to get rid of the 2009 models. There's not much haggling room the first few months the new years models come out and the previous years are sold out so it was terrible timing.

But I can't complain as I love the car and the payments are well within my budget, and with the time of the transmission starting to go in my old car I had little choice as I wanted to get it traded in before it went out.

[Trakan]

The 2010 Mazda 3 will be a new body style, so they'll want to get the '09s off the lot even more come spring/summer of next year.

[Hex]

That 2010 is fucking insane looking. Thanks for the heads up, I'd have had no idea. :x

[VipFREAK]

^Mazda's are one of the nicer look cars these days I have to say.

It's funny really, because I think the last thing most consumers want is ONE car especially if it's a crappy American one.

[XxFuRy2Xx]

So, where exactly can I find these dealerships with the buy one get one free deals? Lease on my current car will be expiring in about 3 months, wouldn't mind getting in on this deal.

[MSI Magus]

Man you guys are the reason the auto industry doesnt change. The Mazda when I looked it up was listed at about 25 MPG......who gives a flying shit how a car looks whenever it gets less gas mileage for more money.

[xycury]

Man you guys are the reason the auto industry doesnt change. The Mazda when I looked it up was listed at about 25 MPG......who gives a flying shit how a car looks whenever it gets less gas mileage for more money.

:lol: :lol:

yeah, it looks good but who cares one needs to fill up every few days...

I wouldn't mind a Light truck.. just something small to haul things, something with 4 wheel drive, but then I don't want to spend a whole lot either.

[MSI Magus]

:lol: :lol:

yeah, it looks good but who cares one needs to fill up every few days...

I wouldn't mind a Light truck.. just something small to haul things, something with 4 wheel drive, but then I don't want to spend a whole lot either.

Trucks atleast can haul things....crap like that Mazda is just a vehicle to get you too and from places. Seriously whats the point in spending $5-$7k more then the Focus or certain other cars for a vehicle with 5-7mpg less? Its fucking retarded.

[fatherofcaitlyn]

Trucks atleast can haul things....crap like that Mazda is just a vehicle to get you too and from places. Seriously whats the point in spending $5-$7k more then the Focus or certain other cars for a vehicle with 5-7mpg less? Its fucking retarded.

The Focus has no pussy magnet.

[dmaul1114]

Trucks atleast can haul things....crap like that Mazda is just a vehicle to get you too and from places. Seriously whats the point in spending $5-$7k more then the Focus or certain other cars for a vehicle with 5-7mpg less? Its fucking retarded.

I cared about looks and performance and features and just didn't like the Focus. I also do ok for myself so the extra cost wasn't much of a concern financially. The gas mileage is pretty good. 22 City, 29-30 or so on highway. I tend to get 350-370 miles before I need to fill up, so it averages to about 25mpg for me with my combo of city and highway driving on my commutes. I probably gas up once every 2 weeks on average, so it's perfectly fine for me and about the same as the Subaru Impreza I had before it.

So in short it was a luxury I was willing to pay for. If I had a more precarious financial situation like you and your fiancee it would be a different story. But despite this being CAG, I wouldn't consider myself a cheap ass in general. I try to save money on games, but that's mainly because it's a hobby and probably the lowest on my list of hobbies now so it's not worth it to pay much for games these days since I don't play much.

I don't need a truck or SUV as I seldom need to hall anything. Just a car that I like the looks of, like the features, and find comfortable as I drive a decent amount.

[dafoomie]

Man you guys are the reason the auto industry doesnt change. The Mazda when I looked it up was listed at about 25 MPG......who gives a flying shit how a car looks whenever it gets less gas mileage for more money.
Its not all about MPG and sticker price, its total cost of ownership. Ford loses here because they don't make terribly reliable cars.

Plus if you drive frequently its a place where you have to spend a lot of time. Ford loves making crappy interiors out of hard plastic, its just unpleasant to spend any amount of time in some of them.

There are space considerations as well. Small Japanese cars are often designed for small Japanese people. I'm not going to drop thousands of dollars on a car that I have to use every day that I loathe.

Oh, and never lease. And off lease vehicles and former rentals can be a good way to skirt the depreciation hit you take on a new car.

[Gourd]

Somehow, as the stay at home husband who does all the yard work, shopping, home repair and such, I have never NEEDED a car larger than a compact.

I drive a very sporty VW GTi at the moment. There's a Gorilla Gear liner in the hatch back area. I've transported two hundred pounds of water softener salt in it, distributed between the hatch and the passenger side.

When I needed bricks for a project, I rented a truck for the day.

Anyway, I do feel bad about what's happening to the US automotive industry, but they lost me as a buyer a decade ago. Large American cars often designed for large American people who wanted a McMansion of a car. :) Couldn't resist, Dafoomie.

Lastly, I again feel bad about the loss of jobs at dealerships, but I sort of hope the dealership model goes away. I'd much prefer to buy a car direct from the factory or automaker, rather than have to haggle.

[Koggit]

How many people ever need bricks for a project?

What I'm saying is for most people a compact is always more than enough, they'd never even have to rent a truck for anything.

I have a VW GTI also, and love it, but I plan on selling it soon because even that I feel is too much. I haven't needed anything larger in the three years I've lived on my own -- and the reason I'm selling it is because I've noticed I can get by just fine with bussing & biking -- the only time I ever haul more than I can carry in a single load is if I don't go the grocery store for a long time, so I'll just sell the car and grocery shop more often, buying less at a time.

Next time you're out and about, look inside each of those SUVs and see what's in it. I bet 90% of them are single occupancy without much (if any) cargo.

[Hex]

Oh, and never lease. And off lease vehicles and former rentals can be a good way to skirt the depreciation hit you take on a new car.

Thisthisthis

The Mazda3 I'm looking at is going for $4,000 less than most because it was a rental.

My plan for this week is to see if I can't get this Mazda3 for $8k by trading in my Focus. It's a 2008, and has 17k miles. Either it's too good to be true or an awesome deal.

[thrustbucket]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the fact that the Focus and Mazda 3 use about 85% of the same parts, since Mazda is owned by Ford. Same engine, same transmission. The only difference I know of for sure is chassis (the 3 is designed by Volvo) and electronics (Focus' come from Slovakia, 3 comes from Mitsubishi).

So, if a few grand is worth it to some for vanity, I guess that's your business.

[dmaul1114]

It's better looking and much more comfortable. The Mazda3 also accelerates better--I don't think the engines etc. are exactly the same any more with the Mazda's having some more horsepower etc. from what I dug up back then. I don't mind paying some extra for luxury there since I drive a good bit, could afford it and have steady and secure employment.

Edit: Here's a comparison of the 2009 models of each if anyone cares about the differences, mentions some differences in performance as well more HP, better HP to weight ratio etc. Of course it's still up to each person whether the difference is worth paying a bit more for.

http://www.newcars.com/ford/focus/reviews/mazda-mazda3.html

And another that just lists specs.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/pricing/comparisons1/Focus-vs-Mazda3-price-comparison.php?session_code=1&aff=1

[paddlefoot]

The Focus has no pussy magnet.

:lol: A guy I work with has that entire conversation as his ring tone.


American car makers fail when they decide to invest hundreds of millions of dollars in crap like the Pontiac Aztec.

http://img.timeinc.net/time/2007/50_cars/pontiac_aztec.jpg

[docvinh]

:lol: A guy I work with has that entire conversation as his ring tone.


American car makers fail when they decide to invest hundreds of millions of dollars in crap like the Pontiac Aztec.

http://img.timeinc.net/time/2007/50_cars/pontiac_aztec.jpg

Car was ugly as hell, but it actually drove pretty nice.

[zionoverfire]

The 2010 Mazda 3 will be a new body style, so they'll want to get the '09s off the lot even more come spring/summer of next year.

Exactly, I picked up an 02 Protege nice and cheap because the Mazda 3 was out and no one wanted the older version anymore.

[MSI Magus]

1. If you need a car to get screwed you have no game and no hope. Retire now ;)

2. I care how well your finacial situation is, sorry if it seems I am being a dick but its stupid and everything wrong with America. A big part of the reason our economy is crashing and planet being poluted is because of this type of Attitude. Who cares that I am spending twice as much and not getting as good of MPG, just look at the curves on my car! Seriously, we bitch about gas prices and the economy.....yet do nothing to change our own habits....or even have the abilty to see its whats causing the problem.

3. I dont buy into the idea that Ford makes bad cars nor that the interiors are so much worse then anyone elses. On the subject of making crappy vehicles I used to think the same thing. I grew up with parents that bad mouthed Ford and grew up making the Found on Road Dead jokes. Then I met my fiancee who actually owned a Ford. I groaned and thought this will suck. 4 years later and only 1 problem(6 years total on the cars life). I know several others that own the same vehicle and again no problems. So to spend $12,000 more on another vehicle is just stupid...I mean hell even if Ford had problems they would have to be the worst ones ever to cost you $12,000 in repair fees. As to the idea that the inside is hard plastic and uncomfortable......ya sorry think thats just a stupid justification you have made up. Cars are not something you live and sleep in. They get you from point A to point B and unless your sitting on top of your dash driving upside down this is a moot point.

Me and my fiancee went out not long ago looking at cars debating getting a new one and I found a car I knew we needed to get if we bought one. I cant remember the name of it now but this car was only like $10-$14k or something like that got like 35-40 MPG and the reviews of the car I looked up were amazing. Thing was it was ugly as freaking sin. My fiancee HATED the car and whined about the way it looked. I am sorry though it is just completely illogical, childish and disgusting to spend more and get less on a vehicle so i refused to do it. Thankfully my fiancee again showed that while she is often superficial when presented with reason unlike most Americans(hell people in general but Westerners are the worst at it)she choose logic over greed/stupidity.

[dmaul1114]

Where are you getting the 12,000 more? There's no where near that price difference between the Focus and Mazda3 when you're comparing same year models (i.e. a 2009 to a 2009).

2009 Ford Focus
Price Range: $14,395 - $17,970

2009 Mazda Mazda3
Price Range: $13,995 - $20,895

So the lowest end, bare bones Mazda3 is actually a bit cheaper than the cheapest Focus, and the higher end a bit more since it has more features than the fanciest Focus. Those numbers are from my first link above, the second link has a comparison of 2 Focuses and a Mazda3 and all cost about the same.

The fuel efficiency is barely different as well, with the 2009 Mazda 3 getting 24/32 and the 2009 Focus getting 24/35--so just an extra 3MPG on highway driving.

So in short, you're mis-informed. The cars cost about the same, get about the same MPG, and all reviews note that the Mazda3 drives better, is more comfortable, and nicer looking.

Only thing I can think of is you're comparing an older, used focus that can be bought cheaper than a new Mazda3. And the used/new debate is something completely different (my last 2 cars have been new, don't' see myself buying used). That or your comparing the barebones Focus to a Mazda 3 with added features--which is silly and only gets at price and not your bad info on the fuel efficiency.


But in general people should just buy what they want and nag others for their reasons for purchasing soemthing they like. I mean it's more reasonable when you're talking about SUVs not used to haul stuff that get terrible MPG. But here we're talking about 2 compact cars that get about the same gas mileage etc. so it's really just buy which one you like better and think the price is reasonable on.

I work hard, and do ok so I like to spend some money on luxury items and always will. Though it's not really applicable in this case since their isn't much of a price difference between a comparable Focus and Mazda3.

[MSI Magus]

Where are you getting the 12,000 more? There's no where near that price difference between the Focus and Mazda3 when you're comparing same year models (i.e. a 2009 to a 2009).

2009 Ford Focus
Price Range: $14,395 - $17,970

2009 Mazda Mazda3
Price Range: $13,995 - $20,895

So the lowest end, bare bones Mazda3 is actually a bit cheaper than the cheapest Focus, and the higher end a bit more since it has more features than the fanciest Focus. Those numbers are from my first link above, the second link has a comparison of 2 Focuses and a Mazda3 and all cost about the same.

The fuel efficiency is barely different as well, with the 2009 Mazda 3 getting 24/32 and the 2009 Focus getting 24/35--so just an extra 3MPG on highway driving.

So in short, you're mis-informed. The cars cost about the same, get about the same MPG, and all reviews note that the Mazda3 drives better, is more comfortable, and nicer looking.

Only thing I can think of is you're comparing an older, used focus that can be bought cheaper than a new Mazda3. And the used/new debate is something completely different (my last 2 cars have been new, don't' see myself buying used). That or your comparing the barebones Focus to a Mazda 3 with added features--which is silly and only gets at price and not your bad info on the fuel efficiency.


But in general people should just buy what they want and nag others for their reasons for purchasing soemthing they like. I mean it's more reasonable when you're talking about SUVs not used to haul stuff that get terrible MPG. But here we're talking about 2 compact cars that get about the same gas mileage etc. so it's really just buy which one you like better and think the price is reasonable on.

I work hard, and do ok so I like to spend some money on luxury items and always will. Though it's not really applicable in this case since their isn't much of a price difference between a comparable Focus and Mazda3.

Whenever I went to a dealership last year I remeber it was $12,000. Maybe that was last years model or something or even the year before. Then when I googled the Mazda it brought it up at like $24k. So again could have been a bare bones to decked out model comparison.

As it stands yes you have a point if the price difference was $1,000 then I say there is nothing wrong with spending a little extra. But I am sorry I dont care how hard you work for your money nor how much you make. I always will live by its disgusting to pay insane amounts of money for silly extras or for large luxury items with the current state of the world. I am someone thats had to live with nothing and been surrounded by some horribly poor people in my life. I have learned my lessons and even now that I am doing better after I get myself financially stable I hope to give back not live it up and piss my money away. Sorry I will always live by the moto of its better to have a decent place to live and a decent car and donate money to feed/clothe/vacinate the homeless or other great causes then piss $1,000s if not $10,000s just to have a nicer house/car/TV then my neighbors.

[Snake2715]

My brother just bought a 2004 Ford Expedition for around 7 thousand, they're practically giving these things away. And before you start, we haul around a lot of people and a lot of crap on a regular basis.

Ford's incompetence may know no bounds, but they still know how to make a good truck.

Yeah except they have been the ones carrying the doosmday prediction since the retirement buyout 5 years ago... and now look the strongest of the big 3...

Its always been Ford and Toyota for me. Throw in a Mazda or Lincoln (both ford owned) and I am set for life.

[dmaul1114]

Fair enough. I grew up in a poor part of West Virginia and vowed to do well, get out of there and give myself a nice living. To be fair, I didn't grow up poor, my parents worked hard and were firmly in the middle class and much better off than most people who lived around us.

I don't care about competing with my neighbors etc., I just work hard and like to reward myself. And I still make donations from time to time--generally to things like crime victims funds, disaster aid, cancer research etc. etc. Things were people are in bad shape through no fault of their own, and less so for people who are struggling because of self-imposed problems like drug and alcohol abuse, not getting an education or learning a trade etc. I don't feel to sorry for such people, it's America, work hard and make good decisions and you'll be fine. And the government's there to help those who get laid off etc. with unemployment, food stamps, medicare etc.

[MSI Magus]

Fair enough. I grew up in a poor part of West Virginia and vowed to do well, get out of there and give myself a nice living. To be fair, I didn't grow up poor, my parents worked hard and were firmly in the middle class and much better off than most people who lived around us.

I don't care about competing with my neighbors etc., I just work hard and like to reward myself. And I still make donations from time to time--generally to things like crime victims funds, disaster aid, cancer research etc. etc. Things were people are in bad shape through no fault of their own, and less so for people who are struggling because of self-imposed problems like drug and alcohol abuse, not getting an education or learning a trade etc. I don't feel to sorry for such people, it's America, work hard and make good decisions and you'll be fine. And the government's there to help those who get laid off etc. with unemployment, food stamps, medicare etc.

Hehe you must really not have grown up poor or known many that did if you think government help means shit or that the American dream is real and anyone can pull themselves up from nothing. Our system is set up to keep people down, especially those that have to rely on food stamps/SSI and other forms of AID. As someone that has gone through worker training programs and currently still gets goverment help let me tell you all these places care about are opening and closing a case not actually making a difference. The money you receive is just enough to get by, and the second you start saving or investing your funds are cut meaning your savings were for naught.

And just out of curiosity what did you do for a living?

[Snake2715]

It's a great car. I bought a 2008 last November. Didn't get much of a deal as it was right after the 2007 had all sold out everywhere around here, and I couldn't wait as my prior car was dying.

What we drive right now... My wife loves it Grand Touring Sunlight Silver:

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/7960/mz3gtgv6.jpg

Trucks atleast can haul things....crap like that Mazda is just a vehicle to get you too and from places. Seriously whats the point in spending $5-$7k more then the Focus or certain other cars for a vehicle with 5-7mpg less? Its fucking retarded.

I will leave this but its misinformed info. The motors are not the same either as mentioned here. Huge differences in warranty, pricing , performance etc.

If you look at say the 4 door aspect to what a 2 door focus and the 3mpg savings... I drop 20,000 miles on each of my two cars a year (total 40k+). At $2 a gallon the difference in price really drops after 25 mpg and it becomes a null point. At $4 its a bit more of an issue... again are you comparing stick to auto or what? We get close to 32 on the highway with our auto and average about 25 mpg for city/highway combined.

So I use 800 gallons of gas a year and the car that averages 28 mpg uses 714 gallons... So I spent $172 more on gas, whoopdie f'n do. Remember this is combined city and highway. Is that focus running with 6 airbags, and a better handling suspension? What if I avoid and accident or am safer overall in the MZ3? Plus yes it looks better. I like Ford though and have always ran with their cars. The Mazda 3 hatch just served us better. I can haul shit including my kayaks and still get good mileage.

Its not all about MPG and sticker price, its total cost of ownership. Ford loses here because they don't make terribly reliable cars.


Also misinformed.. they are on par with Toyota now.. Are you the one always pushing german made vehichles? BMW,VW and Audi are not Gods gift. They have not had the best history until the lsat year or so either. Ford has always been reliable for me.

Everyone is in a pointless pissing match over this shit, but they will drop $200 on a year on games they don't even open or play.

[dmaul1114]

The money you receive is just enough to get by, and the second you start saving or investing your funds are cut meaning your savings were for naught.

That's all it should be. The government's only responsibility is to get people buy until they find gainful employment. We'll just have to agree to disagree on the American dream. Yes their are barriers to some along racial and class lines. But they can still be overcome with hardwork--in school and then in getting a job and making money in the US to an extent they can in few other countries.

And many would say this government aid isn't a right. In other places, and in past centuries people who couldn't support themselves starved. I'm not advocating that, but just saying government aid that's just enough to get by on is where it should be.


And just out of curiosity what did you do for a living?

What do I do, or what did my parents do? I do academic research and teaching as a Faculty Research Assistant while finishing up my Ph D, and will be starting an Assistant Professor position next fall after graduating this spring.

My dad worked for the phone company as a line splicer for 30 years, and my mom has had a variety of bookkeeping jobs and does income tax returns during tax season.

[dafoomie]

Also misinformed.. they are on par with Toyota now.. Are you the one always pushing german made vehichles? BMW,VW and Audi are not Gods gift. They have not had the best history until the lsat year or so either. Ford has always been reliable for me.

Everyone is in a pointless pissing match over this shit, but they will drop $200 on a year on games they don't even open or play.
On par with Toyota... Straight out of a Ford commercial. They've made strides but they're not there yet. They're vastly better than Chrysler, I'll give them that. I actually like their trucks, the Fusion and the Focus aren't too bad either.

VW isn't that much better, cost of ownership is actually higher since VW's require special tools that not every shop has. Plus, many are designed so poorly that routine maintenance such as replacing a timing belt requires disassembly of the transmission and about 8 hours of labor.

[thrustbucket]

It's better looking and much more comfortable. The Mazda3 also accelerates better--I don't think the engines etc. are exactly the same any more with the Mazda's having some more horsepower etc. from what I dug up back then. I don't mind paying some extra for luxury there since I drive a good bit, could afford it and have steady and secure employment.


They are the exact same engines, but it's true that Mazda tunes them differently. Which can make a big difference. Hell, Nissan uses their 6 cylinder engine for more than half of their vehicles, just tuned very differently.

I guess my point simply is that it's hard to argue Mazda 3's are more reliable than the Focus. Looks, some performance, and creature comforts can vary a lot though.

[Snake2715]

Thrust.... maybe the 2.0 Mazda 3 is the same, but not the 2.3 I dont even think a focus comes with a 2.3.

I am so tired of people guessing... I like Ford dont get me wrong. Like I mentioned earlier Ford and toyota occassionally a Lincoln or Mazda..

But the focus is no Mazda 3 plain and simple. Show me something that says otherwise... you are incorrect, simple as that.

Mazda 3:
http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/8850/mazda3consumersce9.png

Focus:
http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/9906/focusconsumersmf0.png


And you dont want to see the detailed ratings it fairs much worse for the focus if we expand those charts... Lots of black.

[xycury]

kinda funny if we look at Europe and Japan, that they don't really accepted the concept of a dualie truck or Hummer or even SUV, because the roads and laws actually forbid those... Car manufactures overseas build them small because they have accepted it and it's the way it's been.

now over here, size doesn't matter.. and it's a foolish loss of idealism that we can maintain our space because we have that much... big lives, drive big cars.. er trucks.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/2008_Smart_ForTwo_Pure_NY.jpg/728px-2008_Smart_ForTwo_Pure_NY.jpg

to see that on the roads would be wonderful, but comparing that to all the trucks and suvs on the road, if one ever hits the other... it's like signing your life away.

There needs to be a truck/suv tax when you're actively not using it. it used to be the MPG but now that our economy crapped out, all you bastards lucked out paying 120 for a fill up.

[thrustbucket]

Here (http://web4.systemcrash.org/forum/showthread.php?t=56563)is some more information I found on the subject of Ford and Mazda.

I was wrong about Mazda and Focus being 85% are the same. It's more accurate to say that 42% of Mazda 3 parts/design are shared with Volvo and Ford.


Ford's involvement in Mazda

- Ford owns 33.4% of Mazda's shares. Under Japanese law, anyone with over 33% gets controlling share (obviously the law is much more complicated than this, but this is the jist of it). Therefore, Ford controls Mazda.

Mazda3 platform sharing

- Mazda3's platform was a joint-development with Ford of Europe, Mazda, and Volvo. This platform is for the following cars: Mazda3, new Volvo S40/V50, Ford Focus C-Max (not avail. in N. America), and the flagship vehicle - the next-gen euro-Ford Focus (this vehicle will be introduced later this year and will not be coming to N. America anytime soon - the re-styled N. American '05 Focus stays with the old platform).
- Each company was the lead for their main strength. So Ford of Europe was the lead for driving dynamics (the current-gen euro-Focus is nothing short of awesome), Volvo the structurals and safety, and Mazda for the powertrains and exhaust systems (Japanese-reliability and technology).
- The individual brands could then add their own brand-specific stuff on top of the common platform (e.g. steels of different strengths for additional safety on the Volvo, and 3 additional tranny-area cross-members on the Mazda to further reduce body-flex)
- In the end, 42% of the Mazda3's parts are shared with its siblings. This means that 58% of the Mazda3 is all Mazda, with the other 42% being co-developed.
- None of the shared components can be seen, heard, or felt by the typical consumer
- So what are examples of things the Mazda3 gained from this platform sharing?
- control-blade rear-suspension is simply awesome (it performs better and is cheaper to manufacture than the one Mazda developed for the Mazda6)
- Mazda3's largest brakes are larger than those on the Mazda6
- Crash-protection will be excellent

Mazda3 engines

- Rule #1. Never go by the marketing names for engine families. For example, the '05 N. American Focus will have an engine called the Duratec 23. This goes along with the Duratec 35 that's currently in development, and the Duratec 30 (the one that is the basis for the Mazda6 3.0l). Aside from the marketing names, these engines have nothing in common (Note: the Duratec 30 is currently called the Duratec 3.0, the names I've used above are the names Ford will use in the upcoming 1-2 years).
- Recognizing the need to develop a strong 4-cylinder engine family to compete against the ones from Honda and others, Ford assigned Mazda to develop the engine family. Ford gave Mazda the basic block, some intellectual property (e.g. Cosworth casting process), some money, and told Mazda to come back with a state-of-the-art engine family with a streamlined manufacturing process that can be manufactured at plants around the world. These engines would be shared by Ford, Mazda, and whoever else in the Ford family with the need for it.
- Mazda did this and developed a 4-cylinder engine family in the following displacements: 1.8, 2.0, 2.3. Even though the Mazda3 1.6l is often referred to as a MZR, it's actually part of a smaller engine family (remember my rule #1).
- Similar to the platform sharing above, the 4-cylinder engine family that Mazda gave is the basic family - it is then up to the brand to add stuff to it (e.g. PZEV for the 2.3l N. American Focus, SVT for Mazda's 1.8 and 2.3). To further re-inforce my point, notice that Mazda doesn't have a PZEV 2.3l.
- This engine family is currently being manufactured at:
- Chihuahua, Mexico (for N. American Focus, N. American Mazda6 2.3l, Ford Ranger)
- Hiroshima, Japan (for Mazda3, Japanese-assembled Mazda6)
- Valencia, Spain (honestly, I don't think Valencia is making this engine family at the moment, but I'm not sure, and I do know for sure that this plant can build this engine family)
- here's a technical press release about the 4-cylinder engine family (if the link doesn't originally work, try refreshing):
http://www.carseverything.com/conten...rticle/1346.3/

Hopefully this clears up a lot of misconceptions of the Mazda3.

[dmaul1114]

So it sounds like the same base engine family, but Mazda and Ford are then able to add to it for their cars. So in the end of the day the Mazda3 and Focus engines aren't exactly the same.

At least that was my reading of it. And as you say, if overall they're only 42% the same, then that's a lot of difference! :D So it's hardly paying more for the same thing (which is moot since we already showed there's not really a price difference between comparable models of the two).

[Snake2715]

I used to run with a Contour SVT and the guys there are envious of the Europe spec Contour...

Lets make one thing clear Ford of Europe is NOT Ford of N America, at all. The focus is not a dumbed down cheaper Mazda 3.

[docvinh]

http://www.epinions.com/review/auto_Make-2003_Ford_Focus_Sedan/content_271650098820

Engine is 2.3L, and that was in 2003. I actually believe the engine is made by Mazda, and Ford uses it in the Focus. But yeah, interior quality and electronics are different in both cars, so they still are different. Just for reference, you can sometimes get parts for Mazdas at Ford dealers for cheaper then at a Mazda dealer if they share that particular part.:)

[Snake2715]

/\ or just go to Rockauto.com and get the parts 50% or more below retail.

[paddlefoot]

So its sort of like Sony and Samsung sharing LCD technology??