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evanft

12-17-2008, 01:20 AM

That's it. The Plan comes in the fall.

blueweltall

12-17-2008, 01:35 AM

Is this suppose to be the last season?

evanft

12-17-2008, 01:48 AM

Yep. This is it, save for the movie and Caprica prequel series.

ValkyrieVF-1S

12-17-2008, 01:49 AM

It better not suck. :/

Kaijufan

12-17-2008, 01:54 AM

A link to the webisodes (http://www.scifi.com/rewind/?sid=870861).
The webisodes finally confirm that Gaeta is gay

evanft

12-17-2008, 02:53 AM

A link to the webisodes (http://www.scifi.com/rewind/?sid=870861).
The webisodes finally confirm that Gaeta is gay

No they don't. Gaeta had a relationship with an 8. He's bi.

billyrox

12-17-2008, 08:57 AM

Yes< Started Yes Yes Ye S

ryanbph

12-17-2008, 09:47 AM

I found weird that that short webisode focused in that. I just don't get how that is important now. If it was an important storyline shouldn't that info come out sooner?

Quillion

12-17-2008, 09:57 AM

I haven't watched the last season yet. Is it worth catching up?

ryanbph

12-17-2008, 12:26 PM

it has some awsome episodes, and some crappy ones...so yes

bigdaddy

12-17-2008, 12:34 PM

A link to the webisodes (http://www.scifi.com/rewind/?sid=870861).
The webisodes finally confirm that Gaeta is gay

Umm... why are you thinking like the closeminded bullshit that goes on in America. He is just open.

RedvsBlue

12-17-2008, 12:35 PM

Umm... why are you thinking like the closeminded bullshit that goes on in America. He is just open.
:roll:

Javery

12-17-2008, 12:59 PM

I'm on Season 2 Episode 14 right now watching for the first time. I love it so far. I've been averaging about 10 episodes a week so I'll catch up soon enough.

evanft

12-17-2008, 03:03 PM

I'm on Season 2 Episode 14 right now watching for the first time. I love it so far. I've been averaging about 10 episodes a week so I'll catch up soon enough.

Season 3 has more shitty episodes than seasons 1 and 2 combined, IIRC. I'll spoil everything:

- The Colonials find and colonize a new planet, which is then found and occupied by the Cylons. This starts the "Battlestar: Iraq" story for the first few episodes of season 3.

- Tigh kills his wife because she worked with the Cylons.

- "Unfinished Business" is a really awful episode. Skip it.

- Baltar spends a lot of time with the Cylons after the occupation ends. He's eventually handed back over to the colonials.

- Baltar is tried and found not guilty.

- Tigh, Chief Tyrol, Terry, and Anders are Cylons.

- Starbuck dies, comes back, and shows them the way to Earth.

- Cally has a baby, but dies.

- Kat dies.

- Number 3 (Xena Cylon) becomes obsessed with the final five models, is boxed, then comes back when the rebel Cylons form an alliance with the colonials. Oh BTW, there's a Cylon civil war. Some of the models think attacking the colonies was wrong.

- The resurrection hub that controls ALL cylon resurrections is destroyed by .the aforementioned alliance. Skinjobs can die now/

- They find Earth. It's in ruins.

Kaijufan

12-17-2008, 09:11 PM

No they don't. Gaeta had a relationship with an 8. He's bi.
Yeah it looks like that's being pretty strongly implied so far in the webisodes. Maybe that's why he stabbed Baltar, he didn't want people to know he had a relationship with a Cylon

Umm... why are you thinking like the closeminded bullshit that goes on in America. He is just open.
Because when I posted that I had only seen the first webisode.

becuzimbrown

12-17-2008, 09:17 PM

Here's a recap of the whole show:
http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/video/?sub=specials&clip=3

evanft

12-18-2008, 04:24 PM

NERDGASM!

I really can't wait for the new season. I'm watching random old episodes on the internet just for shits and giggles.

Temporaryscars

12-18-2008, 04:57 PM

I can't wait!

HuBu

12-19-2008, 09:20 AM

what the frak!

man it has been such a long wait.

bigdaddy

12-19-2008, 10:19 AM

I'm on Season 2 Episode 14 right now watching for the first time. I love it so far. I've been averaging about 10 episodes a week so I'll catch up soon enough.

You are about to end the all great episodes and get to the bad episodes that began with late season 2. After that there are a ton of really poor episodes with great ones mixed in. It's amazing how great one episode is and how terrible another is.

Yeah it looks like that's being pretty strongly implied so far in the webisodes. Maybe that's why he stabbed Baltar, he didn't want people to know he had a relationship with a Cylon

They might set that up now, but the real reason was he committed war crimes against people from a certain colony, but that storyline was dropped from several episodes.

evanft

12-19-2008, 04:52 PM

If these are true, they're super-ultra-spoilers.
Ellen Tigh is the final Cylon. Adama and Roslin both die. It's not Earth. Baltar is the Cylon God.

becuzimbrown

12-19-2008, 06:16 PM

If that's true, i'm voting that you get banned.

evanft

12-20-2008, 12:39 AM

If that's true, i'm voting that you get banned.

The person who posted them over at the BSG forum has been right before and has a good reputation, so people put much more stock in what he says that anybody else. Plus, his spoiler for the fifth is right in line with another reputable source's, SyFyPortal, who claimed to know who it was and presented 5 possibilities with the fifth being in the group.

Also, I clearly marked them as spoilers and I think it was also clear that they were spoilers for future events.

bigdaddy

12-20-2008, 01:31 AM

If that's true, i'm voting that you get banned.

We can vote for things like that?!?! Awesome! Let me get my list!

evanft

12-20-2008, 02:54 PM

Related to my previous spoiler post. Someone posted this in the thread about it on the BSG forum. Very, very interesting.

!!!!!!! (http://www.veoh.com/videos/v16958203hPWDhPST)

thrustbucket

12-27-2008, 12:14 PM

Amazon has accidentally put up all the webisodes before they are suppose to air (except episode 9)!!!

Check it out (http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fgp%2Ffeatur e.html%3FdocId%3D1000128561&tag=aintitcoolcoa-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325)before they correct their mistake!

evanft

12-30-2008, 03:30 PM

In case anyone hasn't read the Aaron Douglas spoilers (Tyrol; he has a really big mouth):

The 13th tribe, as many have suspected, were Cylons. They find Cylon bones on "Earth", which is the "Cylon homeworld".

jlarlee

12-30-2008, 03:59 PM

I watched every episode in a two week spree in December. I don't get the hate for season 3. IMO they were in danger of getting stale and they reinvented things a little bit. I kind of enjoyed seeing some of the characters out of their normal element.

thrustbucket

12-30-2008, 07:28 PM

Season 3 is good. It just had more 'filler' episodes than were necessary.

bigdaddy

12-30-2008, 07:33 PM

Season three has a great beginning and an great end, the middle is garbage, the love rectangle from hell wrecked several episodes that would have otherwise been enjoyable.

evanft

12-31-2008, 09:14 PM

Well, this has apparently been floating around for about a year, but SyFy Portal decided to state their confidence in it. The final scene of BSG is:

Number Six in her red dress walking through a crowd.

Now, that's not really much of a spoiler, as I wanted to shield you a little bit, as the key part is where and when, which is:

Times Square, present day

It's really not that big of a deal, as I've though that where it would go, and I've been sure that the Revelations planet wasn't out Earth from almost the beginning.

becuzimbrown

01-02-2009, 06:37 PM

Haha I was kidding evanft.

I didn't see that coming in webisode 8.

Dunvane

01-02-2009, 08:59 PM

Haha I was kidding evanft.

I didn't see that coming in webisode 8.

Man that's messed up... they stop at 7.

becuzimbrown

01-02-2009, 09:16 PM

Man that's messed up... they stop at 7.

8 is on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlbcvhB2mis

Dunvane

01-02-2009, 10:38 PM

evanft

01-02-2009, 11:19 PM

Two weeks!!!! I'm giddy!

thrustbucket

01-03-2009, 02:40 AM

Well... damn. I didn't expect that, either.

What's worse is that Episode TEN is leaked on youtube, but not NINE... and it appears to be intentional! Ep. 10 is longer than the others, and it leaves it so that the key information was obviously in Ep. 9...

Dammit I love BSG.

All episodes except 9 were leaked on Amazon unbox a few days ago per my post. That's how they got on youtube.

It's still unknown if it was intentional.

evanft

01-13-2009, 07:58 PM

The script for the season premiere was being auctioned off on eBay. Check the cast list on the front page.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y121/evanft/200_P151.jpg

bigdaddy

01-13-2009, 08:22 PM

So....?

evanft

01-14-2009, 02:30 AM

So....?

Ellen Tigh.

jlarlee

01-14-2009, 07:01 AM

Ellen Tigh.

doesn't mean anything could be a flashback

Javery

01-14-2009, 09:50 AM

Ugh. I've been streaming all 4 seasons of BSG to my Xbox 360 over the past month and we have 6 more episodes to go and my router died! We just finished Season 4 Episode 4 and we won't be getting a new router until tomorrow so it looks like we won't be caught up before the new season starts. This is one of the best shows I've ever seen though and I'm actually kind of bummed I didn't wait until the show was totally over before watching. I don't know if I'm going to be able to handle waiting a week to see new episodes!

jlarlee

01-14-2009, 10:34 AM

Javery

01-14-2009, 10:40 AM

Yea I figured it would grab you when you mentioned it in your streaming post. I started watching it 3 weeks prior and I have never been hooked quite like that. It had me losing sleep.

yeah, I know it is good when it's all me and the wife have been talking about non-stop for the last month. A show hasn't grabbed us quite like this since Veronica Mars.

thrustbucket

01-14-2009, 12:36 PM

ryanbph

01-16-2009, 01:22 PM

Are the webisodes on xbox live free?

homeland

01-16-2009, 01:30 PM

I'm pretty sure they were talking about streaming the episodes from their own pc... Airs tonight! w00t!

a_bleak_tomorrow

01-16-2009, 01:36 PM

Yeah cant wait for tonight ive been watching the re runs all day. Aint it cool news gave tonights episode a five star review.

Javery

01-16-2009, 01:51 PM

Are the webisodes on xbox live free?

Yes but as of last night there were only 7 of the 10 up on XBL. I hope they get the rest up soon because that would be my preferred method of watching. I only have 4 more episodes to go until I'm caught up! We just finished the one where Starbuck and the crew of the Demetrius met up with the rebel cylons and went back to Galactica. It was an awesome episode because Tricia Helfer made out with herself!!! I also can't believe Anders shot Gaeta. Me and the wife have a few theories about where this is all headed but I'll wait to discuss until I'm totally caught up because I don't want to be spoiled. Anyway, the 4th season has been much better than the 3rd so far - I can't wait to watch some more tonight!

evanft

01-16-2009, 01:59 PM

Yeah, they're running a marathon today.

Just to catch everyone up with some spoilers:

- Ellen Tigh is the final cylon. I'm thinking this may turn out to be a red herring, though.

- It's not Earth. It's the humanoid Cylon homeworld.

- They find Clyon bones on the planet.

- Starbuck finds a viper with her dead body in it.

thrustbucket

01-16-2009, 02:21 PM

All the webisodes were up last night. However, MS screwed up. The channel in the front of the dashboard that takes you to the little BSG info site, links to the old 7 webisodes from last year that covers young Adama.

The new webisodes can be found by going into the video marketplace > Seach by channel and select Sci Fi channel > Select BSG > Webisodes and specials (or something)

Or, for the truly lazy, just go here (http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/videos/media/9fcf3048-10cc-4136-b10b-beadb7fccc26/)and queue them up. There is also two specials to refresh your mamory's of all seasons with pertinent info.

I already downloaded them all in preperation for my bsg party nerd-fest tonight. I just wish they aired in HD. If they put the new episodes up on live fast enough I may just buy them in HD.

evanft

01-16-2009, 02:36 PM

I'm still a big fan of the theory that Ellen Tigh isn't the fifth, but is in fact an aged Six.

daphatty

01-16-2009, 04:36 PM

:bomb:

I'm really disappointed that I won't have SciFi HD for this show. I was unable to get Dish Network's Turbo HD because my apartment faces the wrong direction and Comcast wants to fuck me three ways from Sunday just to give me HD channels...

Guess I'll have to download the rips...

thrustbucket

01-16-2009, 07:23 PM

I don't think sci fi HD airs it in HD until later. At least that's how it's been in the past.

The only way I know of to truly get in in HD this weekend is on Live for $3.

evanft

01-16-2009, 09:58 PM

OMG!!!

I'm so frakking excited.

Dunvane

01-16-2009, 10:38 PM

It's about halfway through the episode right now... and OMG!

I mean, I figured they would do some messed up stuff this episode, if only for shock value... but frak me am I shocked at what just happened!

D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!

evanft

01-16-2009, 10:40 PM

http://eppsnet.com/images/omg-wtf.jpg

bigdaddy

01-16-2009, 10:42 PM

Ding dan gthe bitch is dead!!!

Dunvane

01-16-2009, 10:47 PM

Man that frakkin' blows... I loved D. She seemed like one of the only characters that had her shit together. Figures that she'd be the first to off herself.

Dunvane

01-16-2009, 11:01 PM

It was Ellen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The 5th!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

evanft

01-16-2009, 11:04 PM

Boom, headshot.

Dunvane

01-16-2009, 11:05 PM

I like how they took the majority of the big things we wanted to know and told us all of them in the first episode of the last 10. Now it could go anywhere!

bigdaddy

01-16-2009, 11:33 PM

The 5th Cylon thing was terribly anticlimatic. it seems like moore went "well we don't have enough time left, just answer it and move on".

However Dee is dead makes it the best episode since Cally died!

A Happy Panda

01-17-2009, 04:35 AM

I called it. From the start when Ellen came onto the show...frakin cylon. Or is it Kara? Or is it every one? DUN DUN DUN

Magus8472

01-17-2009, 06:03 AM

Lord am I ever sick to death of Ellen fucking Tigh. Such a boring character to choose.

jlarlee

01-17-2009, 06:56 AM

I have one pet peeve. It is time to kill the sad music during emotional parts. Its the same damn tune and I hate it. It irritates me like those laugh tracks on some comedies. The music composer needs some fresh material

ajh2298

01-17-2009, 09:48 AM

Kind of off-topic but is the version of Razor that comes in the Season 4 DVD set the same as the stand alone version that came out last year?

billyrox

01-17-2009, 10:05 AM

WHAT was Gias Balter doing... he needs to start up some havoc again

bigdaddy

01-17-2009, 12:32 PM

WHAT was Gias Balter doing... he needs to start up some havoc again

He has found Cylon God, so he is no longer fun.

We need to find out who Cylon God is more than the lame way we found out the fifth Cylon.

evanft

01-17-2009, 01:43 PM

Kind of off-topic but is the version of Razor that comes in the Season 4 DVD set the same as the stand alone version that came out last year?

Yep.

daphatty

01-17-2009, 02:30 PM

PhrostByte

01-17-2009, 02:55 PM

So.. like.. is this a whole topic full of Dwights? :lol:

ryanbph

01-17-2009, 03:00 PM

Yes and welcome :)

PhrostByte

01-17-2009, 03:01 PM

Thanks. Will there be bears?

evanft

01-17-2009, 05:15 PM

Magus8472

01-17-2009, 06:11 PM

I fucking hate people whining about Ellen as the final Cylon. What the fuck says that it had to be a major character, or someone you thought was a Cylon because of some bullshit "clues" that you thought you saw? Seriously, if it had been a major character, the same people whining now would be saying that picking someone like Adama would have been a cheap move (which it would have been). Choosing Roslin, Starbuck, or Baltar, who were probably the top 3 choices for most people before the first 4 were revealed, would have been stupid fan service and again, obvious. This show has been anything but obvious or predictable since the start, so why would it be now?

I just hate Ellen character. The plotlines surrounding her are trite and have literally never gone anywhere; I had hoped with her death that the writers had seen fit to finally close that arc.

Seriously, the whole thing never goes past "I love you even though you cheat on me and our relationship is incredibly dysfunctional. But hey, that's gritty realism for you."

thrustbucket

01-17-2009, 06:37 PM

Dee blowing her brains out was quite the shocker. I seriously thought the writers were going to have Dee and Apollo get back together. Man, what a mind job...

Can't say I like the choice of the fifth Cylon nor the way they told us about it but something tells me she will be reborn. "Everything that has happened will happen again."

And what the hell is the deal with Starbuck. What is she?!

Maybe this (http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/youwillknowthetruth/index.php?pageid=200)is Ellen?

If I were placing $5 on what Starbuck is at this point, I'd say she is Pythia. However, it's really hard not to explain without time travel, yet the creators have said they will never use time travel.

bigdaddy

01-17-2009, 07:23 PM

Maybe this (http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/youwillknowthetruth/index.php?pageid=200)is Ellen?
.

That is most likely because....
Ellen is supposed to be in 7 of the last 9 episodes.

vlv723

01-18-2009, 12:20 AM

Double shocker for me in this episode. Six months of waiting for the second half of the season is well worth it.

Gods, I miss hearing the word "Frak".

Frak you!

Kaijufan

01-18-2009, 01:26 AM

Double shocker for me in this episode. Six months of waiting for the second half of the season is well worth it.

Gods, I miss hearing the word "Frak".

Frak you!
Don't forget the Frak Earth spray painted on one of Galactica's corridors. Easily one of the best uses of Frak on the show and it wasn't even spoken aloud.

jlarlee

01-18-2009, 06:33 AM

yeah, I know it is good when it's all me and the wife have been talking about non-stop for the last month. A show hasn't grabbed us quite like this since Veronica Mars.

Yea VM was great I only chain watched the first season. The other seasons I saw as they aired. Looks like the movie will happen http://www.tvguide.com/News/Veronica-Mars-Movie-1001755.aspx

bigdaddy

01-18-2009, 12:14 PM

I think BSG will end on a high note when VM didn't.

ValkyrieVF-1S

01-18-2009, 03:11 PM

Yea VM was great I only chain watched the first season. The other seasons I saw as they aired. Looks like the movie will happen http://www.tvguide.com/News/Veronica-Mars-Movie-1001755.aspx

OH SWEET! I can't freaking wait for a proper ending to the series.

deszaras

01-18-2009, 04:25 PM

Was I the only one glad to see Laura Roslin broken down? I've gotten so sick of her the past season. She had become such a stubborn self-righteous ass.

Dunvane

01-18-2009, 06:26 PM

The only reason I care for the president as much as I do is because I care about Adama, and HE cares so much about her that if something happens to her, it has an effect on his character.

His reaction to Dee was probably the greatest moment of television I've ever seen, oddly enough. It felt so honest.

deszaras

01-19-2009, 10:49 AM

His reaction to Dee was probably the greatest moment of television I've ever seen, oddly enough. It felt so honest.

He has been able to provide some of the strongest emotional instances in the whole series. Despite his role as a military commander, he's one of the most profound emotional anchors in the show.

evanft

01-19-2009, 12:55 PM

Dude, that's cause he's Edward James motherfucking Olmos, bitch.

bigdaddy

01-19-2009, 03:37 PM

This video is funny, however it has a HUGE spoiler for the latest episode so you have been warned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW2_2ihIuzI

Dunvane

01-19-2009, 04:09 PM

This video is funny, however it has a HUGE spoiler for the latest episode so you have been warned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW2_2ihIuzI

That's awful.

bigdaddy

01-19-2009, 06:09 PM

I still think it's not as bad as the lesbians Quesno's add of "MMMM...MMMMM... toasty!" during the Razor movie.

Kaijufan

01-23-2009, 11:36 PM

Well tonight's episode was mostly just setup for next week (and I imagine the rest of the season, since this was the first episode written and filmed after the writer's strike), but I'm already wishing it's next Friday so Ron Moore did a really good job.

The last scene is burnt into my mind. I don't think I'll ever be able to get rid of that image.

evanft

01-23-2009, 11:52 PM

Shirtless EJO? Oh yeah, I've got jack-off material for six months.

I'm gonna call it: Adama is the dying leader.

A Happy Panda

01-24-2009, 06:26 AM

Shirtless EJO? Oh yeah, I've got jack-off material for six months.

I'm gonna call it: Adama is the dying leader.

Holy shit. That is epic. I've never even thought of that.

ptuck874

01-24-2009, 09:37 AM

Holy shit. That is epic. I've never even thought of that.

i was wondering with all those pills he be poppin', i wondered what was up with that, plus a couple of times, he just looked like crap last night :( that would be a twist !

bigdaddy

01-24-2009, 12:16 PM

Considering I think everyone over the age of 35 will die in the show Adama could very well be the dieing leader. All the "parents", have to die, that has been a theme of the show, that the parents die so the next generation can grow into themselves.

Plus clearly the promised land is not earth, and the president just gave up, but Adama hasn't.

thrustbucket

01-24-2009, 03:54 PM

bigdaddy

01-24-2009, 03:57 PM

BTW, there are 9 episodes left because the two hour finale became 3 hours after the filmed it.

Dunvane

01-24-2009, 08:50 PM

I don't know that I buy Adama being the dying leader just yet. The scripture said a dying leader afflicted by a "wasting" disease. There is no indication just yet that Adama is sick, although by the previews for the next episode, that could change.

Well, this is probably REALLY out there, but What if Gaeta is the dying leader? The thought of the "wasting" disease is what makes me think it is possible, as for the last few episodes we've seen Gaeta "wasting" away, in both physical and mental health, and he's begun to take a type of leadership role in a rebellious fashion. It would certainly be a twist, anyway. :P

Temporaryscars

01-24-2009, 09:41 PM

I agree.

thrustbucket

01-24-2009, 10:10 PM

Well, this is probably REALLY out there, but What if Gaeta is the dying leader? The thought of the "wasting" disease is what makes me think it is possible, as for the last few episodes we've seen Gaeta "wasting" away, in both physical and mental health, and he's begun to take a type of leadership role in a rebellious fashion. It would certainly be a twist, anyway. :P

Now you may be on to something. Good job!

ptuck874

01-25-2009, 10:02 AM

way way way too many ways things might be able to "twist" hopefully they will not try to "twist" things too much to mess up the show :(

bsesb2003

01-25-2009, 10:34 AM

I hope this doesn't end like Voyager -- when poof, they're home, and that's it. I like some of these theories though.

Kaijufan

01-30-2009, 11:24 PM

We got one of the most intense episodes of the season tonight, I was on the edge of my seat the whole time. I can't wait for next Friday.

bigdaddy

01-30-2009, 11:26 PM

WOW!

The characters are back and better than ever! Kickass!

And I got to watch the show in HD for the first time, it's pretty. :)

So who do you think will end up dead next week? :lol:

ryanbph

01-30-2009, 11:43 PM

I hope it is good. I finally convinced my wife to watch it with me. I have to get up god awful early tmro to go to the YMCA with her and our daughter.

vlv723

01-31-2009, 12:10 AM

We got one of the most intense episodes of the season tonight, I was on the edge of my seat the whole time. I can't wait for next Friday.

Agreed. I just want to punch Gaeta in the face

Dunvane

01-31-2009, 12:31 AM

I was always shifty on Gaeta, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt and even kinda liked him for a while.

It amazes how well the actor and writers have done in order to make me hate him. But then, of course, anyone who disses Adama like that and isn't Lee, Starbuck, or the chief... well they're dead to me. :P

evanft

01-31-2009, 01:01 AM

What a fucking great episode. No bullshit, no lag time, just awesomeness.

sendme

01-31-2009, 10:52 PM

I'm not going to bother reading the posts in this thread, because I don't want to read spoilers, but this show is like crack. I ordered season one on HD DVD for around 10 bucks and thought I would check it out and if I did not like it I was only out a little over 10 bucks with shipping and tax. Now I'm playing catch up because I'm hooked on it and in the past week and a half bought seasons 2 and 2.5. I'm currently downloading seasons 3 and 4 now but will be picking them up after my taxes come in when money is a lot better then what it is now.

One thing I did not like to much was they killed off the presidents aid. I think they could have done more with his character. Also started to think that the end of season 2 was Gaius Baltar dreaming about what would happen if they started a colony on that planet but I guess it really did happen.

Gamehead

01-31-2009, 11:26 PM

dafoomie

01-31-2009, 11:41 PM

One thing I did not like to much was they killed off the presidents aid. I think they could have done more with his character.
The producers have expressed regret at the way that went down, called it their worst episode. It was filler trash.

bigdaddy

02-01-2009, 12:52 AM

Billy wanted to leave the show so they had to kill him off.

And yes the writers admit that a lot of season 2.5 and season 3 is bad and didn't come out anywhere close to what they wanted.

Over easy

02-01-2009, 01:31 AM

Don't worry! Now you can catch Billy on Knight Rider! (His character on the show is also named Billy)

bigdaddy

02-01-2009, 02:01 AM

Don't worry! Now you can catch Billy on Knight Rider!

Wow.... he is moving on up in the acting world! :lol:

sendme

02-01-2009, 01:35 PM

Some of the stuff in 2 and 2.5 did seem like it was flller. The one that really comes to mind is the episode where they went around with a news crew and filmed the ship and interviews. That always just says filler episode to me. It seemed like they were just trying to push the rescue mission for caprica back till later in the season. I think they could have had it earlyer then what they did and just make it more episodes then what it was.

dcfox

02-01-2009, 02:26 PM

All this Gaeta hate. You can't really blame the guy, though. Look at what he's been through.

bigdaddy

02-01-2009, 05:50 PM

Some of the stuff in 2 and 2.5 did seem like it was flller. The one that really comes to mind is the episode where they went around with a news crew and filmed the ship and interviews. That always just says filler episode to me.

Did you not watch the end of that episode? That's a favorite episode of mine that's just a stand alone.

Season 2.5 and three are known for useless filler and badstory telling and Moore admits that it is his fault, and the writers fault and not the acting or producing or anyone elses.

sendme

02-01-2009, 09:05 PM

Yeah I saw it. The reporter is a cylon.

Kaijufan

02-02-2009, 12:02 AM

Did you not watch the end of that episode? That's a favorite episode of mine that's just a stand alone.

Season 2.5 and three are known for useless filler and badstory telling and Moore admits that it is his fault, and the writers fault and not the acting or producing or anyone elses.
At least part of the problems of season 3 were that Sci-Fi wanted more stand alone episodes to draw in new viewers, which is pretty much impossible with this type of show.

bigdaddy

02-02-2009, 12:08 AM

At least part of the problems of season 3 were that Sci-Fi wanted more stand alone episodes to draw in new viewers, which is pretty much impossible with this type of show.

Yes I remember Moore talking about that, however he admitted that several story lines didn't work out during the season because of his bad writing. Most famously was the dreadful and strung out love quadrangle.

Javery

02-04-2009, 04:20 PM

WTF??? That episode was sick. This entire 1/2 season has been really good so far. Is Tigh really dead? What is the purpose of the fleet now that there is no Earth to live on? That was Earth, right? Starbuck is a complete badass too - I can't believe she just shot those guys without hesitation. You never see that on TV. God I love this show.

bigdaddy

02-04-2009, 05:23 PM

To answer your question, no, and really no considering.

Earth has come and gone, that was Earth, that is the Earth that was talked about, they have found Earth. Obviously it wasn't the promise land.

thrustbucket

02-06-2009, 11:06 AM

They still never explained how/when their discovery of earth fit in with our own earth reality, which is what everyone was waiting for.

I expect that to be answered, otherwise they are basically saying this whole story takes place somewhere else in the universe, they happened to use the word "earth" and many of our same ancient mythological gods, but otherwise have nothing to do with us - and that would be super gay.

Javery

02-06-2009, 12:54 PM

The 2 hour "Caprica" movie/pilot will be available to download or buy on DVD starting April 21. Yay! The series still won't premiere until 2010. Boo!

gordojones88

02-06-2009, 01:30 PM

Don't worry! Now you can catch Billy on Knight Rider! (His character on the show is also named Billy)

Holy Cow! I wondered where I knew Billy from, it's Billy. He totally makes Knight Rider.

ryanbph

02-06-2009, 02:05 PM

The 2 hour "Caprica" movie/pilot will be available to download or buy on DVD starting April 21. Yay! The series still won't premiere until 2010. Boo!

when is the movie/pilot airing on sci fi?

bigdaddy

02-06-2009, 03:14 PM

The 2 hour "Caprica" movie/pilot will be available to download or buy on DVD starting April 21. Yay! The series still won't premiere until 2010. Boo!

No way... that has to be the dumbest idea ever! Oh yeah.. It's Sci-fi Channel...

The movie/pilot will not be shown until the series is show, which at the earliest will be January 2009.

They still never explained how/when their discovery of earth fit in with our own earth reality, which is what everyone was waiting for.

No, not me. I'm just going along with the ride.

And super gay... your type of show then? :roll:

ryanbph

02-06-2009, 05:37 PM

No way... that has to be the dumbest idea ever! Oh yeah.. It's Sci-fi Channel...

The movie/pilot will not be shown until the series is show, which at the earliest will be January 2009.

I would imagine you mean 2010. Is it the pilot or is it a mini series like the new bsg had?

evanft

02-07-2009, 01:08 AM

Yeah, kinda.

4 fantastic episodes in a row. Best run since Battlestar: Iraq at the beginning of season 3.

A Happy Panda

02-07-2009, 04:04 AM

holy shit balls, best episode in awhile....may be my favorite ever actually.

billyrox

02-07-2009, 09:27 AM

awesome episode... the only thing that sucks is that stupid wife of Tigh is back next episode.. i CANNOT stand her... of all the people why did she have to be the 5th!:L!:!?!?!!?? just go away woman

homeland

02-07-2009, 09:44 AM

billyrox

02-07-2009, 10:18 AM

vlv723

02-07-2009, 10:25 AM

Great episode as others have said. Just realized today (thanks to my wife) that the actress who plays Pres. Rosaline, is also on Greys Anatomy. I guess she has her future after the show already figured out.

Also, Karl Agathon is on the new show Dollhouse w/ Eliza Dushku. And the Chief was the Casino Dealer on Walking Tall w/ The Rock.

And yes, I loved last night's episode. I was literally at the edge on my seat.

bigdaddy

02-07-2009, 11:07 AM

I would imagine you mean 2010. Is it the pilot or is it a mini series like the new bsg had?

Yeah 2010.

BSG didn't have a miniseries, it was a two night TV movie. A miniseries is something like Crusoe which is shown as a series over several weeks.

Caprica pilot is just a 2 hour long episode.

ajh2298

02-07-2009, 12:44 PM

BSG didn't have a miniseries, it was a two night TV movie

It was miniseries says so right the box.

http://www.markheadrick.com/dvd/images/BattlestarGalactica-TheMiniseries.jpg

ajh2298

02-07-2009, 12:51 PM

Also...
What was the signifigance of those scratches on the wall Tyrol was looking at in the engine room?

dafoomie

02-07-2009, 01:00 PM

Also...
What was the signifigance of those scratches on the wall Tyrol was looking at in the engine room?
He was having difficulty breathing for some time, that explains where the air was going.

sendme

02-07-2009, 02:34 PM

I just got cought up to this today. Last nights show was the best since season one. I have to say the last few episodes were the kick in the ass this show needed. I'm still wondering what starbuck is. Is she human or cylon or what. She isn't one of the five and was to far from a reserection ship when she made it to earth. Also the bodie and viper looked like they have been there for a long time. So if she is not a cylon how did she come back from the dead because humans can't do that. Now with the cylon civil war I wonder how long till we see more fighting from it. Also if the 13th colonie was all cylons that left 2000 years ago why did no one remember that at one time humans and cylons lived together. I might have to rewatch all this from the start.

Magus8472

02-07-2009, 02:42 PM

awesome episode... the only thing that sucks is that stupid wife of Tigh is back next episode.. i CANNOT stand her... of all the people why did she have to be the 5th!:L!:!?!?!!?? just go away woman

I couldn't agree more.

He was having difficulty breathing for some time, that explains where the air was going.

Hrm, when I watched it I assumed that meant there was something wrong with Galactica's FTL. *shrug*

HuBu

02-07-2009, 03:00 PM

Very good episode.

I was waiting for the lawyer to say "The pen is mightier than the sword" after he killed the guard with the pen.

evanft

02-07-2009, 04:07 PM

Very good episode.

I was waiting for the lawyer to say "The pen is mightier than the sword" after he killed the guard with the pen.

Frak! That would have been perfect on so many different levels.

ryanbph

02-07-2009, 04:25 PM

I couldn't agree more.

Hrm, when I watched it I assumed that meant there was something wrong with Galactica's FTL. *shrug*

chief had already taken care of the FTL when he saw the crack. IMO it was more symbolism, the cracking of the alliance between gatta and zarek. Also it might have something to do with a potential crack in the friendship between the friendly cylons and the humans. As for tighs wife, I never really liked her character, but if she resurrected maybe she is with a 3rd cylon group that don't know of the internal civil war.

Kaijufan

02-07-2009, 08:15 PM

Also...
What was the signifigance of those scratches on the wall Tyrol was looking at in the engine room?
I think they were stress fractures from age and battle, and Galactica's FTL drive isn't going to last much longer.

bigdaddy

02-07-2009, 08:58 PM

Yeah the cracks are from the ship being 50-60 plus years old and seen so much battle without a tune up.

sendme

02-07-2009, 10:54 PM

just saw a preview of next weeks episode. Tighs wife comes back and now she knows she is a cylon. I really could not stand her character. I wonder whos side she will be on. Also with the hub destroid how can she come back? Unless they say that it happend hours befor the ship was destroid.

billyrox

02-07-2009, 11:23 PM

bigdaddy

02-08-2009, 12:31 AM

thrustbucket

02-08-2009, 08:17 PM

In episode 9,10, or 11 of Season 4, there is a scene where Adama is looking in the mirror then notices big cracks in the ceiling above him in his quarters.

Obviously Chief seeing cracks is now showing this is a sub-plot yet to be played out, or it could just be symbolism that things are cracking and about to explode.

Edit: It could also be symbolism that the ship is going to "die" by the end. Or, who knows, maybe the ship is the dying leader :).

evanft

02-08-2009, 10:14 PM

jlarlee

02-08-2009, 10:51 PM

It was nice to see Starbuck back in form. A urinal experience like that would scar me for life

Javery

02-09-2009, 10:17 AM

My gods this show is incredible. I thought this mutiny storyline was going to be stretched out over the last episodes. There are still 6 episodes left and they have packed more action and story into the first 4 episodes of this season than most shows manage in their entire run.

I have no idea how this is going to play out but apparently there is a resurrection hub somewhere else in the galaxy where the final 5 presumably get reborn. Starbuck has to have something to do with that, right? Maybe there is a 13th Cylon (you know, since there are 13 colonies) and she is it? Maybe something happened with her thousands of years ago that led to her banishment or "boxing" or whatever? She HAS to be a Cylon, right???

bigdaddy

02-09-2009, 12:25 PM

^ No she doesn't.

They could always do the Ship of Lights storyline in which God needed her for something and brought her back to life. The hub could be the same one, but I doubt it, because just because we saw her download doesn't mean it didn't happen over a year ago. Remember Download, they did Sharon's download storyline over the course of a year in an episode.

What really interests me is an upcoming episode features Starbuck becoming friends with a piano player. I have no clear what that has to do with anything, should be interesting.

thrustbucket

02-09-2009, 12:36 PM

What really interests me is an upcoming episode features Starbuck becoming friends with a piano player. I have no clear what that has to do with anything, should be interesting.

I am almost positive that is Zack Adama, probably in flashbacks. That's because according to IMDB, the last 4 or 5 episodes have an actor playing Zack Adama. If you remember, Zach was Starbucks main squeeze before the show took place, before she accidentally got him killed. It will be even more interesting if it isn't flashbacks.

jlarlee

02-09-2009, 01:21 PM

Some crazy theories there guys. But the best part about this show is you just can't predict crap. Anything goes sometimes.

A Happy Panda

02-09-2009, 05:01 PM

I am almost positive that is Zack Adama, probably in flashbacks. That's because according to IMDB, the last 4 or 5 episodes have an actor playing Zack Adama. If you remember, Zach was Starbucks main squeeze before the show took place, before she accidentally got him killed. It will be even more interesting if it isn't flashbacks.

My money has been on Zak Adama and Ellen Tigh since the last 4 were revealed. If I'm right on both, I'm celebrating.

thrustbucket

02-09-2009, 09:06 PM

My money has been on Zak Adama and Ellen Tigh since the last 4 were revealed. If I'm right on both, I'm celebrating.

Who exactly do you think Zak is? Another cylon?

bigdaddy

02-09-2009, 09:22 PM

Maybe it's like LOST and all time happens at once! Therefor Zac isn't really dead, he's just not around in this time. ;)

A Happy Panda

02-09-2009, 09:38 PM

Who exactly do you think Zak is? Another cylon?

I originally thought that Zak was going to be the final cylon until it was "revealed" to be Ellen. So once that was revealed, that complicated my theory since there can't be 14 cylons, if we're considering Starbuck to be one, or some kind of freak hybrid. However, it still could be the writers throwing us a curveball where it never was/is Ellen Tigh

sendme

02-10-2009, 08:12 PM

A Happy Panda

02-10-2009, 09:46 PM

How could it be Zak when his father is human? I'm woindering how they are going to play it with starbuck coming back. I know they are going to have to explain that or atleast I think they would. As for the cracks I'm thinking they are symbolic like someone else has said or they are going to lead up to the ship falling apart due to age and all that it has went through. Maybe the ship will be destroid by the end of the series.

Switched at birth? He was the first actual baby Cylon from earth before it got blown up? They all turn out to be Cylons? IDK. For whatever reason I've always thought it was him...probably because that'd be the most insane episode ever. But you're right, its pretty inplausible.

bigdaddy

02-10-2009, 10:39 PM

Javery

02-11-2009, 06:57 AM

The last few episodes are flashback heavy, so Zac is just in the flashbacks.

I think people have too much time on their minds to come up with crazy ass things. I think the ending will be not as shocking as everyone thinks.

I don't think there is going to be some huge twist - the show doesn't do huge twists - but I do think they are going to leave everything out on the field and answer most of our questions as best as they can. This will involve some revelations (which may or may not be shocking) but I don't think it will turn anything upside down.

thrustbucket

02-11-2009, 12:23 PM

I don't think anything will be huge and shocking either, per say.

From the little the cast has already revealed in interviews, they essentially say that "you really can't see it ending any other way". Alluding to nothing really being a big shock.

Stryffe2004

02-11-2009, 12:40 PM

Where are the rest of the final five models? Are there only one of each and when they are gone they are gone? If so, it makes no sense because they all were somehow reborn when "Earth" was destroyed. If they somehow came back on the resurrection ship, wouldn't the first 7 cylons know their identity?

Is there another homeworld where the additional final 5 models are living?

daphatty

02-11-2009, 02:07 PM

She is going to be in the remaining episodes, she plays a big role. Also she can come back in several different ways, the hub was destroyed, but there was only one? That's stupid. The final five could have their own hub, that wasn't destroyed. It could have been the only hub and she could have came back to life right away, but it wasn't the right time to return until now.

What I really want to see is her and Caprica Six talk. :lol:

What if Ellen Tigh is an older version of Caprica Six? :D That's been my theory for a couple of weeks now. It would certainly explain Tigh's obsession with Caprica Six.

I am almost positive that is Zack Adama, probably in flashbacks. That's because according to IMDB, the last 4 or 5 episodes have an actor playing Zack Adama. If you remember, Zach was Starbucks main squeeze before the show took place, before she accidentally got him killed. It will be even more interesting if it isn't flashbacks.

My money has been on Zak Adama and Ellen Tigh since the last 4 were revealed. If I'm right on both, I'm celebrating.

Zak returning and being a Cylon would certainly make for an interesting plot twist. Remember how conflicted Adama and Lee were about Starbuck when she returned from Earth? Remember how Lee posed the question, "What if it was Zak that stepped out of that Viper? Would it matter if he were a Cylon?"

Javery

02-11-2009, 02:34 PM

What if Ellen Tigh is an older version of Caprica Six? :D That's been my theory for a couple of weeks now. It would certainly explain Tigh's obsession with Caprica Six.

I've thought about this but there's really no plausible way for this to be the case. Tigh would remember how hot his wife was 20 years ago and would instantly recognize her. So would Adama, Lee and other people who have known Tigh for a while.

Zak returning and being a Cylon would certainly make for an interesting plot twist. Remember how conflicted Adama and Lee were about Starbuck when she returned from Earth? Remember how Lee posed the question, "What if it was Zak that stepped out of that Viper? Would it matter if he were a Cylon?"

This is interesting but how would it make any sense (unless Zak was adopted or something)? I still think Kara is the 13th Cylon (and we are going to learn that they somehow are responsible for the 13 human colonies).

Kaijufan

02-13-2009, 11:56 PM

Wow we really got a ton of answers tonight about the final 5 and the other cylons. I thought we would have to wait for the last episode or two to get some of these episodes.

Not only did we get a ton of answers, but they were good ones too. Even though the writers didn't really have a plan and more or less made up the story along the way everything seemed to fit together really well.

evanft

02-14-2009, 12:10 AM

Is it just me, or is Kate Vernon really hot in a cougar sort of way?

Anywho, the answers were, IIRC:

- The humans on Kobal created the skinjobs that formed the 13th colony. They had a falling out with the humans and left 4000 years ago.

- The 13th tribe created centurions, who rebelled (?) and nuked the people.

- 5 people were hooked up to a resurrection system that brought them back on a ship orbiting earth. They had been warned about the impending war by head people.

- Ellen Tigh was responsible for the system somehow.

- The 5 went out to try and find the other colonies to warn them about enslaving artificial lifeforms.

- When they found the colonies, the Cylon war was underway.

- The 5 agreed to help the Cylons create humanoid bodies in exchange for ending the war.

- Cavil, whose name was originally John, is modeled after Ellen Tigh's father.

- Cavil turned on the 5, killed them, then altered their memories, placing them into colonial society over a period of time.

- There were originally 8 humanoid Cylon models. Number 7, named Daniel, was apparently deleted.

- A colony containing technology related to Ellen's work exists.

Good stuff.

sendme

02-14-2009, 12:28 AM

when did gaeta have a relationship with an 8? I wonder what role if any the one they were talking about on tonights episode will have.

evanft

02-14-2009, 12:34 AM

On New Caprica. It was shown in the webisodes.

My favorite theory is
Daniel is Starbuck's father and Dirk Benedict is gonna play him.

I would squee on so many different levels if that happened.

bigdaddy

02-14-2009, 01:22 AM

I thought we would have to wait for the last episode or two to get some of these episodes.

Yes we will have to wait until the last episodes to get the last episodes. :lol:

Dirk Benedict is a dick, he has always been a Dick and always will be.

thrustbucket

02-14-2009, 01:22 AM

Is it just me, or is Kate Vernon really hot in a cougar sort of way?

Anywho, the answers were, IIRC:

- The humans on Kobal created the skinjobs that formed the 13th colony. They had a falling out with the humans and left 4000 years ago.
This is the part I didn't fully grasp. The way I understood it was the 13th tribe that went to Earth were humans, and the final 5 were human before they died and uploaded to the slow orbiting ship. But I think they said that all the remains found on Earth were cylons.....I need to watch it again.

The rest of your list is exactly what I got out of it.

I am really curious about the following things:

1- Exactly where does our own Earth history match up with the show? Are we the 13th tribe then? That can't be the case, or we'd only have been here for 3000 years. Maybe it all takes place in our future, and the 13th tribe arrives when humans are already on the planet? Or, the more likely answer is that the humans in the show (us) originated on Earth to begin with and later left to colonize Caprica etc. That would mean the show takes place far far far into our future (far enough that Earth was abandoned by the time the 13th tribe came back).

2- It's a little weird that the colonies discovered FTL travel but not resurrection. The 13th tribe developed resurrection but no FTL travel.

3- I think it's pretty clear now that Starbuck is either the one true god, or related to it somehow.

4- Why did those 5 people discover resurrection and not share it with anyone else?

6- What exactly is the extent of the obvious symbolism of the chief about to add biological material to a metal construct to "make it stronger"?

7 - Why is it that the Centurions believed in a one true god, but so does Ellen?

It's also pretty cool now how well this is all tying into the plot of the upcoming Caprica series which revolves around the creation of AI, since BSG is turning out to all be about the creations and dangers of doing so.

billyrox

02-14-2009, 02:26 AM

Is it just me, or is Kate Vernon really hot in a cougar sort of way?

Anywho, the answers were, IIRC:

- The humans on Kobal created the skinjobs that formed the 13th colony. They had a falling out with the humans and left 4000 years ago.

- The 13th tribe created centurions, who rebelled (?) and nuked the people.

What I dont understand is Skinjobs or artificial life forms create Centurions as well??? WTF? and these Centurions rebelled against the human-made artificial life forms and nuked them? that makes no sense

and meanwhile... back on the colonies, real humans create Centurions too?

billyrox

02-14-2009, 02:36 AM

Also... timeline if our earth is "in the story"

EARTH -> KOBAL -> CAPRICA and EARTH (13th tribe)

billyrox

02-14-2009, 02:45 AM

1) Lastly... The final five... do they age or immortally ageless? Do they resurrect at the same age or the age that they die?

2) Also the John guy - he's smart enough to manipulate and destroy the final 5, and then he bitches and moans that he can't upgrade himself into something better (having only a human body with human limitations in sight and sound).

You'd think that he would learn himself or force someone smart enough to help him evolve into something better than his "human" form.

3) It is interesting that John and Daniel is a play off the Cain and Abel biblical story. I would love Gais Balter=Daniel. Funny how, the colonies are polytheistic while the Cylons are Monotheistic.

thrustbucket

02-14-2009, 03:05 AM

My new theory after thinking it over is one of two things for Daniel:

1- Daniel is starbucks dad. That would make her the first real cylon/human hybrid. Remember, she was always told she was 'special'. It would also explain why the hybrid offspring are considered so damn important in the visions etc. Maybe they can resurrect without a hub.

or

2- Starbuck is Daniel. Ellen said that John messed Daniel up genetically etc. That could mean it also changed his sex. It would be awesome if it shows her previous form was Dirk Benedict (unlikely though or his name would have appeared on imdb I think).

or

3- It's baltar. That would explain his messed up delusions of six?

But i have a gut hunch that most of the Daniel storyline is for the new Caprica series.

Either way - I think Starbucks resurrecting had something to with Ellens secret hidden 'colony/lab'.

Also, did anyone else appreciate the new opening? Think that will last the rest of the season?
Edit - nevermind, watching the enhanced version on scifi.com and RDM says they created it just for this episode to show the audience this episode was different.

billyrox

02-14-2009, 10:44 AM

thrustbucket

02-14-2009, 11:15 AM

Also... after a night of sleeping.. who the hell Nuked earth? and where the hell did they go? cuz the 5 had to spend 4000 years traveling to get to the colonies... so is there a super advanced race of cylons 4000 years into the future hiding around somewhere as well?

That's one of the big questions. There are still a good number of questions left to be answered.

It suddenly occurred to me how interesting it would be now to go back and watch Tyrol confessing to brother Cavil about his dreams, wondering if he's a cylon. Since it's now known Cavil knew all along who the final 5 were.

It also occurred to me that in order for Ellen to download, bodies of the final 5 had to already exist in tanks somewhere kept secret by Cavil.

Here (http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/02/battlestar-galactica-no-exit-.html#more)is a pretty good concise article that sums up that episode.

bill123

02-14-2009, 11:37 AM

I've got a question for you all. I just finished watching the first half of this season yesterday and now am wondering without giving much away have they revealed the 5th cylon yet? I plan on downloading the rest of the episodes that have already aired and start watching to catch up but I was just wondering if it's happened yet.

billyrox

02-14-2009, 11:40 AM

That's one of the big questions. There are still a good number of questions left to be answered.

It suddenly occurred to me how interesting it would be now to go back and watch Tyrol confessing to brother Cavil about his dreams, wondering if he's a cylon. Since it's now known Cavil knew all along who the final 5 were.

It also occurred to me that in order for Ellen to download, bodies of the final 5 had to already exist in tanks somewhere kept secret by Cavil.

Here (http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/02/battlestar-galactica-no-exit-.html#more)is a pretty good concise article that sums up that episode.

thanks for the article

thrustbucket

02-14-2009, 11:45 AM

bill123

02-14-2009, 12:10 PM

I'm not gonna look at the spoiler thrustbucket. I just wanted a yes or no for my own curiosity. I was just wondering if it had been revealed yet or if they might string it out until the last episode.

billyrox

02-14-2009, 12:16 PM

I just had a weird feeling that the Cylons on Earth were nuked by humans.

Secondly, who the hell made the random space object with a virus in the 2nd season that would have completely annihilated the cylon race?

thrustbucket

02-14-2009, 12:27 PM

I only put a yes or no in the spoiler. Just so you could think long and hard before clicking it. :)

*******

While in the shower, something suddenly occurred to me that I need to share before I forget it, that I have not read yet on any other forum.

In the last episode Anders said (rather quickly so it was easy to miss) "Back on Earth, the warning signs we got, they looked different to each one of us. I saw a woman. Tori, you saw a man. Funny, no one else could see them. Gaylen, you thought you had a chip in your head." Then he was interrupted.

I think that's the biggest bomb dropped in the whole episode. Clearly those are huge huge hints that they experienced the exact same thing Six and Balter do, seeing people that nobody else does. "you thought you had a chip in your head"? How many times did Baltar say the same thing?

My guess is that IS the "one true god". Keeping with the whole theme of "It's happened before and will happen again", I think this cycle has been going on for eons of time. At some point, someone implanted a genetic "program" that would help correct and steer humanity back on course through religious visions when things are getting nasty. It even happens to the centurions, which is why they feel so inclined to create skin jobs - because it's the image of their "god" which they want to be like.

I think RDM is an atheist as is highly unlikely to end the show with any "mystical" answers for who "The one true god" is, or anything.

This theory also strongly suggests that one of the big reveals at the end is that everyone is a cylon. Everyone was "created" by a previous model. Cylon detection only detects the current generation as "artificial".

bigdaddy

02-14-2009, 02:45 PM

I'm not gonna look at the spoiler thrustbucket. I just wanted a yes or no for my own curiosity. I was just wondering if it had been revealed yet or if they might string it out until the last episode.

Yes, we know all the Cylons now, at least their names. You find out several episodes back and "No Exit" deals with him/her/it/they. You really should be in here if you don't want to be spoiled.

Kirin Lemon

02-14-2009, 03:46 PM

jlarlee

02-14-2009, 04:48 PM

I know we all groaned at Ellen returning, but I found myself kind of liking this version

bigdaddy

02-14-2009, 06:58 PM

Okay, loved this week's episode, but the guest-appearance by John Hodgman was *really* distracting, and sucked me right out of the experience. Why did they think that was a good idea? That's like putting Howie Mandel in an episode and expecting me to take it seriously!

Yeah, I didn't need PC guy there, that was really odd for an episode so serious.

I know we all groaned at Ellen returning, but I found myself kind of liking this version

Me too, much better than the old version, however I wasn't groaning about the return.

Kaijufan

02-14-2009, 09:41 PM

Yes we will have to wait until the last episodes to get the last episodes. :lol:

Dirk Benedict is a dick, he has always been a Dick and always will be.
:lol: You know what I mean.

What I dont understand is Skinjobs or artificial life forms create Centurions as well??? WTF? and these Centurions rebelled against the human-made artificial life forms and nuked them? that makes no sense

and meanwhile... back on the colonies, real humans create Centurions too?

From what I understand the skin job Cylons on Earth build their own Centurions, who then rebelled. The few remaining skin jobs return to the colonies, only to find the human created Cylons have rebelled, and want organic forms. The "final five" agree to give them organic forms if they end the war on humans (which is why we saw in Razor the war ending without any reason).

The human centurions are then transferred into the 7 (8 originally) bodies, and start building their own centurions, as well as hybrid machine/organic Raiders and Basestars.

billyrox

02-14-2009, 11:30 PM

:lol: You know what I mean.

From what I understand the skin job Cylons on Earth build their own Centurions, who then rebelled. The few remaining skin jobs return to the colonies, only to find the human created Cylons have rebelled, and want organic forms. The "final five" agree to give them organic forms if they end the war on humans (which is why we saw in Razor the war ending without any reason).

The human centurions are then transferred into the 7 (8 originally) bodies, and start building their own centurions, as well as hybrid machine/organic Raiders and Basestars.

So why do skin job cylons need Centurions? Aren't skin job cylons more advanced?

thrustbucket

02-14-2009, 11:31 PM

So why do skin job cylons need Centurions? Aren't skin job cylons more advanced?

It's been pretty obvious. They are slaves. They do the dirty work. The skinjobs have pretty much said as much.

They (cavil) even had inhibitors put on them so they couldn't think freely, which was part of why half the cylons rebelled.

billyrox

02-14-2009, 11:55 PM

okay... that was not very obvious to me.

so big picture: humans create robots. robots rebel. robots then create new robots. the new robots rebel. over and over again. so essentially, the theme is no one wants to work.

that is stupid. if skin jobs are so damn advanced, why would they create a new "race" of cylons to work for them? are they really that lazy? why do robots need robot slaves?

and why not specifically create artificially stupid robots grunts with no ability to evolve or just super efficient machines to do all the slave work? end vicious cycle.

thrustbucket

02-15-2009, 12:07 AM

Nobody has really known it was a cycle. Everyone thought they were making them for the first time, I think. Except for the final five, who wanted to get back to the 12 colonies to warn them about creating AI.

I recommend reading the article I linked above, it gives a very concise layout of the time line.

bigdaddy

02-15-2009, 12:26 AM

that is stupid. if skin jobs are so damn advanced, why would they create a new "race" of cylons to work for them? are they really that lazy? why do robots need robot slaves?

and why not specifically create artificially stupid robots grunts with no ability to evolve or just super efficient machines to do all the slave work? end vicious cycle.

:wall::dunce::imwithst:

Skin jobs are like humans and humans create machines to do the work for them.

Did you even watch the episode? The final five went to the colonies to warn them not to make AI! They were too late!

evanft

02-15-2009, 12:36 AM

This (http://forums.scifi.com/index.php?showtopic=2324628) post over at the BSG board seems to bring things together nicely:

I may be slightly rough on some specific details, but I believe I can accurately reconstruct the time line based on what was revealed in tonight's episode. I'm obviously not going to get everything right, but I'm hoping to at least be on the right track. Also, I'm doing this because I want people to find the gaps and flaws and together we can better understand everything. I could be way off, but I'm trying to put the pieces together, and sometimes you just have to speculate.

"All this has happened before, and will happen again."

In the beginning...there was Kobol.

An unspecified amount of time ago, Kobol was inhabited by a race of humans. These were the "Lords of Kobol." They were technologically advanced, but we have no reference as to whether or not they had the capability to travel at light speed. However, we do know that they had the the ability to perform an organic memory transfer, or a resurrection. We don't know if they had the ability to procreate for sure, but they obviously maintained their species either through procreation, resurrection, or a combination of both. Now, this is tough and kind of a hole for me.

At some point in their history, these great minds of Kobol gained the ability to create another race. Enter the first intelligent machine race.

This machine race was originally similar to what are called the Centurions, or perhaps they were the early versions. As their intelligence increased, they realized they were unsatisfied, and rebelled against their creators. A war was fought and some sort of truce was declared, and the Centurions retreated. However, during the span of the war, the Centurions were able to create a Hybrid, a combination of human and machine, that was capable of procreation, suggesting that the original inhabitants of Kobol could in fact procreate and resurrect. These hybrids would quickly become the leaders of the machine race once they are perfected, as their ability to procreate and use resurrection technology makes them valuable. The war ends in truce, with one of the stipulations being the machines must go into exile. The machines would be content with this, because they had gained the ability to create the Hybrids. These Hybrids will come to represent the Thirteenth Tribe, the inhabitants of Earth.l

Ever wonder why 12 tribes stayed together and the Thirteenth was lost, and mostly regarded as mythical? This is why. The Thirteenth Tribe were the exiled machine Hybrids. Yes that's right, the Thirteenth Tribe was not human.

So why did the Lords of Kobol choose to abandon their planet? I don't know. This is another hole. However, I could speculate that they feared the machines they had created and exiled would one day return to destroy them. Thus, they left, fearing their weakened society could not withstand another attack. These are the 12 Colonies, the inhabitants of Caprica and other planets, who travel from Kobol to their new homes.

Now lets return to the exiled machines. Suddenly cut off from their creators, those supposed to love them, the machines are without a figure of authority to govern their actions. This causes them to emulate their creators, thus as their society begins to flourish on Earth, it also progresses on much the same lines as human society. As must also have certainly occurred in the 12 colonies, this progression causes procreation to begin ultimately taking the place of resurrection. As we learned tonight, the process and technology for resurrection was slowly lost as it was replaced by procreation.

Somewhere along the lines, the Hybrids create the concept of the One True God to allow them purpose and to govern their society. It is for them the culmination of morality and love, something they can certainly experience.

Now, here's where things get interesting. As the race of Hybrids is procreating and dying, generations pass, until finally resurrection is barely more than a myth. Enter the Final Five, who at this point are nothing more than regular Hybrid "people" with childhoods, friends, social lives, and absolutely no relevance or significance in the grand scheme of things. However, their unique backgrounds force them together to discover and reinvent resurrection. And why do they begin frantically trying to reinvent the resurrection process? They are warned, but we don't know by who. Thus, they are able to reconstruct the technology of the Lords of Kobol, and per the warning, plan an escape route in case Earth is attacked. And who is attacking Earth? I'm not sure about this. Either the original Centurions created on Kobol were responsible, or the Hybrids themselves spawned a machine race that ultimately rebelled against them. Remember, this is one big cycle, and several times in tonight's episode references are made to "We have to tell them creating intelligent life will end in disaster if you don't treat them right" or something to that effect. Obviously, the Hybrids from Earth were all too familiar with creations rebelling against their creators.

So, when Earth is nuked, presumably by Centurions created or managed by the Hybrids, the Final Five are killed, but are resurrected into a ship orbiting the Earth, where they immediately set out to find the other 12 colonies. Now, I believe this suggests that the Hybrids have evolved socially in their emulation of mankind for so long, and consider the old conflicts forgotten and both Centurions and Humans their kin. Thus is the love and forgiveness of the One True God. On their way to the 12 Colonies, they leave behind clues to that they were at certain places at certain times. The 3,000 year old virus found from Earth, the map in the Temple of Athena, and other signs of their presence and records of their journey and point of origin. They are responsible for the "map" or "path" back to Earth that the Fleet ultimately follows. To me, this makes the character of Kara Thrace incredibly significant, but that's a whole other post. So for now, the Final Five survivors of Earth are heading to the 12 Colonies.

Ok, I know this is a lot to digest. Try to stay with me. Any or all of this can probably be disproved, but I think I'm at least in the right direction.

So to recap thus far...the human inhabitants of Kobol create a machine race that rebels. In the process, Hybrids are created. The machine race is defeated and exiled, and the Hybrids travel to Earth as the Thirteenth Colony in attempt to recreate a human like society. Meanwhile, the humans on Kobol decide to leave, fearing a future attack. They become the 12 Colonies. They travel to their new system of planets, and form the society we are familiar with. Now for their time line.

At least 50 or so years before the first episode of the series, the human inhabitants of the 12 colonies create a machine race of Centurion like beings. Whether they had always had the capacity to create is unknown, but I believe that having learned from their mistakes, the original settlers from Kobol destroyed all information that could lead to the creation of a machine race. Enter the prophecies and scripture of pythian subscribers as both a warning and a guide. Thus, it was long time before mankind reached this achievement again in their new environment. However, reach it they do, and the Cylons are born. I believe the terminology is important, because their is no reason to suggest this name was ever given to a machine race until this time. Thus, Cylon represents the machines created by the 12 Colonies and any resulting machine creations, such as the 8 Cylon "skin job" models. But I digress...

The Centurion Cylons eventually, in the tradition of the cycle, become discontent with their roles in this social system, and rebel against the humans. As the war progresses, the Centurions begin working to create their own race of Hybrids, again a combination of human and Cylon. At this point, the surviving five members of the Thirteenth Tribe, or the Final Five, finally reach the new home of their former civilization. Upon arriving, they realize they are too late, that humanity is already engaged in a war with their technological creation. Hoping to end further conflict, they convince the Cylons to declare peace with the humans in exchange for their assistance in the Cylon's pursuit of the creation of a Hybrid race. The Cylons agree, and the Final Five do in fact create a Hybrid race. In so doing, however, the Final Five also construct their own Cylon models, the 8 models we know as "skin jobs."

However, there is a problem. One, or the first model created, is far more knowledgeable than the rest. Because of his position as the first created, he has the unique opportunity of knowing at least one of his creators, Ellen. However, as is always the case, he quickly realizes the limitations of his human like state, and he begins to form a plan to both punish and enlighten his creators. He murders the Final Five, trapping each of their consciousness, or boxing them. Then, he figures out a way to erase their memory upon resurrection, and in this way, is able to systematically plant them into the everyday society of the 12 Colonies. Thus, they have no knowledge of their past, and are simply programmed with certain triggers implanted by One to help them survive, suffer, and ultimately force them to endure the awful fate of humanity. One is responsible for the Final Five's inclusion in the Fleet, he is responsible for the nuking of the 12 Colonies, and he is responsible for the ensuing hardships faced by the the Fleet in space and on New Caprica.

So to recap. The Lords of Kobol created the Centurions, who created the Hybrids. The Centurions are exiled following their rebellion, and Hybrids in tow, seek out a new planet to inhabit, Earth. This is the Thirteenth Colony. Hybrids begin to evolve socially along the same patterns as human society, leading to eventually casting aside the Kobol resurrection ability in place of procreation. Inevitably, there is a conflict between Centurions and Hybrids, and the Centurions are exiled from Earth. However, they return decades later and destroy the Hybrid race. But, the five Hybrids were warned of this attack, and using their skills, were able to reconstruct the resurrection process and plan an escape. They are successful, and leave a destroyed Earth in search of their lost "semi-relatives" in order to warn them and protect their original civilization. Thousands of years pass while they travel through space, during which time the 12 Colonies have also turned to procreation rather than resurrection. Just before the Hybrids from Earth arrive, the humans of the 12 Colonies create a machine race, the Cylons. The Cylons eventually rebel, and a war begins. During the war, the Cylons began heavy research and experimentation into creating Hybrids of humans and Cylons. Upon arriving, the Hybrids from Earth agree to help them realize this if they agree to end the war with humanity. Following that, the Hybrids from Earth, or the Final Five, create their own Cylon line, which eventually rebels against them. One, the first model, launches a plan to punish his creators, using humanity as a prop, which leads to the destruction of the 12 Colonies and the creation of the Fleet. This leaves us right in the heart of the conflict we have been watching unfold.

That pretty much is all I've got as far as what occurred from Kobol to the first episode. I know its lengthy, but I hope it was at least entertaining, if not accurate. I realize it has taken me awhile to write this, and some other posts may already exist similar or better than this one, but I appreciate input all the same. As I said before, this is simply an attempt to reconstruct the time line. There are many other aspects of the show still left to address, and I may consider another post addressing some of those. However, tonight's episode was very enlightening for me as far as the chain of events that led to where we are now. Please comment and let's finish the puzzle.

Don't forget the overall theme here...if you don't appreciate and respect your creation, it will destroy you.

Of course, I'm thinking that:
this might be him. (http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/youwillknowthetruth/index.php?pageid=280) Or maybe this scene is to show you that Kara is "artistic", like her father.

billyrox

02-15-2009, 12:47 AM

:wall::dunce::imwithst:

Skin jobs are like humans and humans create machines to do the work for them.

Did you even watch the episode? The final five went to the colonies to warn them not to make AI! They were too late!

:imwithst:stfu

I did watch the damn episode.

What i'm saying is that it seems ridiculous that Skin Jobs (who are like humans but are NOT humans) create new artificial intelligence when they are already artificial intelligence themselves.

Why the hell would they create new artifical intelligence race to enslave and do to them exactly was done to themselves? Of all the things to avoid you would think that they would realize not to do that.

What exactly are you saying? they thought that they were humans? So they wipe their collective memory after leaving Kobal and pretend they are all human beings (AND revert back to pre artifical intelligence era) to purposely doom themselves into repeating their own mistakes?

Kaijufan

02-15-2009, 01:50 AM

Why the hell would they create new artifical intelligence race to enslave and do to them exactly was done to themselves? Of all the things to avoid you would think that they would realize not to do that.

My guess is because they didn't want to do any of the work they were forced to do as slaves for the humans.

thrustbucket

02-15-2009, 01:51 AM

If cylons are anything like humans (they are) then they repeat the same mistakes for eons.

Also remember the thirteenth tribe didn't resurrect once at earth. They procreated.

Dunvane

02-15-2009, 09:47 AM

billyrox

02-15-2009, 10:55 AM

This (http://forums.scifi.com/index.php?showtopic=2324628) post over at the BSG board seems to bring things together nicely:

Thanks for the post, that's informative.

My main argument is that it just seems very illogical or atleast highly unlikely that that hybrids (human/AI) or skinjobs (AI) would eventually create new artificial intelligence (with their own free will) to with the sole purpose to enslave them for work.

So essentially, the show is telling us to accept that human beings are "fated" and it is just innate human progression that we will create artificial intelligence for slavery. First of all, I do not believe that this is what would happen in all human progression. Humans have enslaved lower animals, other humans, simple machines for work... but to create a whole new life form with the "ability for free will" for purpose slavery just seems very dangerous and unlikely. My main problem is that it is even more ludicrous that these new life forms would then replicate the exact same mistake that we made.

Most likely if we create AI, it will evolve and out think us rapidly, and it wouldn't be surprising that they become the smartest "species" on the planet a lot faster than humans realize. The reason human beings have been able to rule the earth and dominate overall animals, plants, etc is because we have always been intellectually superior to everything else. However, once something becomes smarter than us, then they will rule over us. So most likely scenario is that AI (after its creation) would rapidly gain knowledge and come to control us... (and hopefully be nice to us since we created them).

Kaijufan

02-15-2009, 12:16 PM

Why did the 13th Tribe on Earth have to have created "Centurions" at all? Is it not possible that they, after living as humans for so long, simply were at war with themselves and nuked their own planet? I mean, is that not what we're worried about doing to ourselves?
Don't forget that they found the remains of centurions on Earth. I don't remember if they specifically said the Earth centurions rebelled, but based on the fact that AI in the Battlestar Galactica universe always seems to rebel I would say it's likely that the centurions are the ones who killed the 13th tribe.

Edit: Also Cylon centurions rebelling was the entire reason that the final five went to the 12 colonies, they wanted to warn the humans about making AI.

thrustbucket

02-15-2009, 01:07 PM

Thanks for the post, that's informative.

My main argument is that it just seems very illogical or atleast highly unlikely that that hybrids (human/AI) or skinjobs (AI) would eventually create new artificial intelligence (with their own free will) to with the sole purpose to enslave them for work.

So essentially, the show is telling us to accept that human beings are "fated" and it is just innate human progression that we will create artificial intelligence for slavery. First of all, I do not believe that this is what would happen in all human progression. Humans have enslaved lower animals, other humans, simple machines for work... but to create a whole new life form with the "ability for free will" for purpose slavery just seems very dangerous and unlikely. My main problem is that it is even more ludicrous that these new life forms would then replicate the exact same mistake that we made.

Most likely if we create AI, it will evolve and out think us rapidly, and it wouldn't be surprising that they become the smartest "species" on the planet a lot faster than humans realize. The reason human beings have been able to rule the earth and dominate overall animals, plants, etc is because we have always been intellectually superior to everything else. However, once something becomes smarter than us, then they will rule over us. So most likely scenario is that AI (after its creation) would rapidly gain knowledge and come to control us... (and hopefully be nice to us since we created them).

There is a very real possibility that one of the big final reveals of the show is that everyone in the show is actually a 'cylon'. In that they were artificially created by someone else artificially created before them. So what will that mean to your thoughts if it turns out that is the case?

bigdaddy

02-15-2009, 01:23 PM

There is a very real possibility that one of the big final reveals of the show is that everyone in the show is actually a 'cylon'. In that they were artificially created by someone else artificially created before them. So what will that mean to your thoughts if it turns out that is the case?

I think you are right. I think "Cylon God" is actually a real human who first developed AI and Cylons thousands and thousands of years ago somewhere. That's why the Cylons call him/her? God.

thrustbucket

02-15-2009, 02:32 PM

I think you are right. I think "Cylon God" is actually a real human who first developed AI and Cylons thousands and thousands of years ago somewhere. That's why the Cylons call him/her? God.

That seems to be one of the more popular theories; that the Lords of Kobol were in fact advanced humans from Earth. The reason they were deemed "gods" was their resurrection technology made them effectively immortal. But the humans we know now in the show, and everyone else, was "created" by them.

billyrox

02-15-2009, 10:37 PM

There is a very real possibility that one of the big final reveals of the show is that everyone in the show is actually a 'cylon'. In that they were artificially created by someone else artificially created before them. So what will that mean to your thoughts if it turns out that is the case?

That's a great theory and idea for the ending. I'm going to think about it for a bit and get back to you.

evanft

02-15-2009, 11:15 PM

Yeah, that kinda seems where everything's going.

evanft

02-20-2009, 10:58 PM

Not the strongest episode of the season, but definitely a good one.

bigdaddy

02-20-2009, 11:22 PM

That episode was a horrible waste of time.

evanft

02-21-2009, 12:08 AM

There was nothing really bad, but nothing really great either. I liked the Baltar parts, but I'm a real Baltar mark, and it seemed like we saw Adama stare at cylong engineers slopping goop about 89 times. The entire episode just kinda seemed to exist without really doing anything significant. I guess maybe after SO much epic win, there was bound to be bump in the road.

It was somewhat of a transitional episode, like episode 2, except worse. These are always gonna be a problem when you're doing a serialized drama and all the plots are working to some common ending.

becuzimbrown

02-21-2009, 12:46 AM

thrustbucket

02-21-2009, 02:35 AM

I think this episode was basically the first part of the third act of 4.5.

Kaijufan

02-21-2009, 03:04 AM

I thought this episode wasn't as good as the past few, but it wasn't too bad. I enjoyed Ellen and Baltar's crazy antics in the episode. I also really feel sorry for Bill, turning the Galactica into a half Cylon ship is killing him.

Also, some news on the Blu Ray and 4.5 DVD release. While not confirmed by the studio, apparently multiple industry sources have confirmed that the complete series will be releasing on Blu Ray on July 28th, while season 4.5 will come out on DVD on April 21. Apparently a shrink wrapped bundle will also come out that day with season 4.0, 4.5 and the Caprica pilot.

Source TVShowsonDVD (http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Battlestar-Galactica-The-Complete-Series/11368)

bigdaddy

02-21-2009, 12:11 PM

The complete series on Blue Ray will most likely cost $500. :roll:

evanft

02-21-2009, 01:57 PM

So the humans of Kobol created machines, and then the hybrids were created from the machines. Then machines/hybrids fought the humans of kobol, and there was peace later. If the Hybrids went to earth, and the humans of kobol went to the 12 colonies, where did the machines go?

I think im confused.

1. Kobol humans create humanoid "Cylons". They also have some sort of organic memory transfer technology.

2. Kobol Cylons rebel, leave, make "Earth" their home. This is known as the exodus of the 13th tribe in the Kobol, now Colonial, religion.

3. Some time later, the humans on Kobol leave and create the 12 colonies.

4. Back on "Earth", the Kobol Cylons create their own centurions.

5. Some of the Kobol humanoids recreate the organic memory transfer technology, allowing them to resurrect. They do this because they were warned of the coming apocalypse.

6. Earth Centurions rebel, killing all but 5 Kobol humanoids.

7. The Five leave on a ship with the hopes of finding the other 12 tribes in order to warn them.

8. The Five arrive after the Colonial war with their own Cylons has started.

9. In exchange for stopping the war, the Five give the Colonial Cylons the technology to create humanoid models.

10. Cavil, believing that the limitations placed on them by the Five hindered their ability to experience their existence (essentially), killed the Five and erased their memories when they resurrected.

11. Cavil places the Five in the 12 colonies at various points in time in order to show them how awful humans are (or something like that.)

thrustbucket

02-21-2009, 02:16 PM

The only addendum I would add to evanft's points above is on number 1. It's not clear who made the 13th tribe. It has been pretty clear, before, that at one point, just before the 13th tribe (cylons) left kobol, there were 3 separate factions on Kobol: Humans (later the 12 colonies), Cylons (13th tribe), and the Lords of Kobol. It still isn't clear who the Lords of Kobol are, other than they were and are worshiped as gods.

I find it hard to believe that the 12 colony humans created cylons that left for Earth; then later, after colonizing the 12 colonies, forgot and re-invented how to create cylons. I think the Lords of Kobol had something to do with the creation of the 13th tribe.

Also, I found another "recap" of what's going on, including timeline and a simple flowchart. Check it out (http://www.screenjunkies.com/recap/bsg-recap-no-exit-flowchart-included).

Magus8472

02-21-2009, 02:32 PM

Temporaryscars

02-21-2009, 03:05 PM

Yeah, that episode was pretty weak. Here's hoping they pick up the slack.

Over easy

02-21-2009, 04:45 PM

It seems Hulu is not hosting the newer BSG episodes anymore. Now I have to find a different source of watching the newest episodes.

They seem to really allude to the fact that Starbuck is a cyclon. Piano in the bar bit? Definitely hinting that direction.

Kirin Lemon

02-21-2009, 06:02 PM

That episode was pretty much exactly what I was afraid of when they introduced Ellen as the final Cylon. Nothing but self-destructive how-dare-you antics for the whole bit which swallow everything else going on and then everything's up and fine because love shows us the way. At least the B plot went somewhere.

Pretty much.

Man, what a train wreck of an episode that was. I was especially rolling my eyes at Ellen's childish bullshit after she had cheated on Tigh countless times in the past. And she was upset about a baby, but not that Tigh had poisoned her or anything else? You would think that after being alive for so long, Ellen would have gained some wisdom or patience that normal people wouldn't have, but clearly that's not the case. Not to mention the "love" between Tigh and the Six began as rape in the first place, which is fairly horrible. Oh, and "Let's put it to a vote - majority rule!" for leaving Galactica was all kinds of stupid. What the crap is going on with this show's writing staff? It's like they just think up a whole bunch of random shit with no clear direction, and every few episodes they luck out with something of vague coherence.

evanft

02-21-2009, 07:23 PM

Actually, yeah, I'm downgrading this one from "Meh" to "Crap; don't watch ever again."

What the crap is going on with this show's writing staff? It's like they just think up a whole bunch of random shit with no clear direction, and every few episodes they luck out with something of vague coherence.

Given the fact that they had 5 fantastic episodes in a row, a few of which could be considered among the series's best, you're fucking wrong.

bigdaddy

02-21-2009, 07:36 PM

We didn't have 5 great episodes in a row, there was another bleh episode after the mid season starter.

SithFran

02-21-2009, 08:02 PM

1. Kobol humans create humanoid "Cylons". They also have some sort of organic memory transfer technology.

2. Kobol Cylons rebel, leave, make "Earth" their home. This is known as the exodus of the 13th tribe in the Kobol, now Colonial, religion.

3. Some time later, the humans on Kobol leave and create the 12 colonies.

4. Back on "Earth", the Kobol Cylons create their own centurions.

5. Some of the Kobol humanoids recreate the organic memory transfer technology, allowing them to resurrect. They do this because they were warned of the coming apocalypse.

6. Earth Centurions rebel, killing all but 5 Kobol humanoids.

7. The Five leave on a ship with the hopes of finding the other 12 tribes in order to warn them.

8. The Five arrive after the Colonial war with their own Cylons has started.

9. In exchange for stopping the war, the Five give the Colonial Cylons the technology to create humanoid models.

10. Cavil, believing that the limitations placed on them by the Five hindered their ability to experience their existence (essentially), killed the Five and erased their memories when they resurrected.

11. Cavil places the Five in the 12 colonies at various points in time in order to show them how awful humans are (or something like that.)

Wait, I thought the Kobol's left for earth and it was on earth that the 5 were created along with their cylons. Where can I find that episode to rewatch?

Kaijufan

02-21-2009, 08:04 PM

It seems Hulu is not hosting the newer BSG episodes anymore. Now I have to find a different source of watching the newest episodes.

They have the episodes on Sci-Fi's website, along with "Enhanced" episodes with audio commentaries.

Kirin Lemon

02-21-2009, 08:06 PM

Given the fact that they had 5 fantastic episodes in a row, a few of which could be considered among the series's best, you're fucking wrong.

More like three, which were great (minus the terrible John Hodgman cameo), I'll give you that. But most of season 3 and the first half of season 4 were this same level of poorly-written crap, so I'm standing by my statement. This show used to be far more coherent, and I miss that.

thrustbucket

02-21-2009, 10:51 PM

Wait, I thought the Kobol's left for earth and it was on earth that the 5 were created along with their cylons. Where can I find that episode to rewatch?
The people who left for earth were always cylons. They were skinjob cylons that could biologically pro-create. They eventually created centurion cylons, which presumably destroyed them. The 5 were the ones that were left from this destruction. The 5 then left for the twelve colonies to warn them about creating AI.

The episode where this is explained was last weeks, and you can find it here (http://www.scifi.com/rewind/?sid=32850).

dafoomie

02-21-2009, 11:00 PM

You can see a big difference between a show with a predefined beginning, middle, and end like Babylon 5, and a show that makes it up as they go like this one. The weak writing is why this had to be the final season. They've had some really huge hits, and some really big misses. Season 3 was a miss.

And once they're done with a plot point, they cast it aside forever.

evanft

02-22-2009, 12:34 AM

You can see a big difference between a show with a predefined beginning, middle, and end like Babylon 5, and a show that makes it up as they go like this one. The weak writing is why this had to be the final season.

Don't ever compare BSG to Babylon 5. That show was fucking awful. Compare it to Stargate SG-1 or something, but not BSG.

They've had some really huge hits, and some really big misses. Season 3 was a miss.

Season 3 was like 30% shit, maybe 50% good to great, and 20% kinda in the middle. The first 5 episodes were great, as were the last 3. The 2 in the middle were also quite good. The 3 before and 3 after the middle 2, though, were absolute trash and I never watch them when I rewatch season 3.

And once they're done with a plot point, they cast it aside forever.

WTF? When?

More like three, which were great (minus the terrible John Hodgman cameo), I'll give you that. But most of season 3 and the first half of season 4 were this same level of poorly-written crap, so I'm standing by my statement. This show used to be far more coherent, and I miss that.

Season 3 and 4 were each probably 50/50, with the beginning and end of each season being great, and the middle usually being tedious as fuck. I think I outlined exactly which episodes from the two seasons were worthwhile in an older BSG thread. But yeah, the series hadn't had a run of 5 straight good episodes since probably the beginning of season 3, especially not at their level. Actually, I'd say that they really don't have single good episodes. The best episodes since season 3 have basically been glorified 2 or 3 parters, like Battlestar: Iraq, Baltar's trial, or the mutiny.

bigdaddy

02-22-2009, 01:09 AM

The end of season 2 and all of season three were useless bullshit episodes that were forgotten or should have been. The most famous examples are the Cylon virus one, and the one where Adama started the Cylon War, when he really didn't and should have know that.

Even Moore thinks season 2.5 and season 3 fail for the most part.

dafoomie

02-22-2009, 01:49 AM

Don't ever compare BSG to Babylon 5. That show was fucking awful. Compare it to Stargate SG-1 or something, but not BSG.

Babylon 5 was the best sci-fi show of the last 20 years. Incredible writing with passable acting and the best special effects the early 90s had to offer. BSG exists today because of B5's success. No one was doing sci-fi as a drama with long, complicated story arcs and flawed characters before then, you had TNG and at that time DS9 doing one off stories each episode that can be watched in any order, with perfect characters in perfect societies. The soundtrack was also outstanding, every single episode had an original score.

WTF? When?
They invent ancillary stories that don't go anywhere, and when they don't work out their characters have to be written out (Dualla and the love triangle, Kat and the drugs, the black market, Baltar's trial (and everyone seems to forget he was President). They don't always know where they're going, so they end up with a fast pace in the beginnings and ends with nothing in the middle. Its a great show but if they planned out their story a little better ahead of time, a lot of these problems wouldn't have happened. A lesser show would've drowned in the mediocrity of the middle seasons, as Enterprise did.

evanft

02-22-2009, 02:05 AM

Babylon 5 was the best sci-fi show of the last 20 years. Incredible writing with passable acting and the best special effects the early 90s had to offer. BSG exists today because of B5's success. No one was doing sci-fi as a drama with long, complicated story arcs and flawed characters before then, you had TNG and at that time DS9 doing one off stories each episode that can be watched in any order, with perfect characters in perfect societies. The soundtrack was also outstanding, every single episode had an original score.

No it wasn't. The acting was crap, the special effects have aged worse than a jack o lattern in December, and the writing was horribly overrated. Deep Space Nine took the long story arc idea and ran with it a bunch of times in its second half and did it much, much, much better. Shit, TNG's two-parters were more interesting than B5's. I'll give it credit for being REALLY FUCKING EPIC, but not for quality.

They invent ancillary stories that don't go anywhere, and when they don't work out their characters have to be written out (Dualla and the love triangle, Kat and the drugs, the black market, Baltar's trial (and everyone seems to forget he was President).

The love quadrangle was basically axed for one reason; everyone fucking hated it. It was the biggest reason why season 3 had such a high shit/not shit ratio. Sci-Fi also put pressure on the writing staff to do more "monster of the week" episodes, so that's why you had the black market, bad doctor guy, that dude from Alias appearing out of nowhere, etc. The Baltar trial just plain ended.

They don't always know where they're going, so they end up with a fast pace in the beginnings and ends with nothing in the middle. Its a great show but if they planned out their story a little better ahead of time, a lot of these problems wouldn't have happened. A lesser show would've drowned in the mediocrity of the middle seasons, as Enterprise did.

I really chalk that up to the fact that it's not exactly the cheapest show in the world and the writers aren't always 100% sure if they're going to be able to finish things.

thrustbucket

02-22-2009, 02:33 AM

First of all, RDM has always been very open about the fact that BSG has mostly been made up as they go. Although, I do think he had it skeletally worked out in his mind from the beginning, but he's always said that there was not enough story to go past 5 seasons max. I also believe (But don't know for a fact) that he pretty much had the end in mind all along, just not exactly how to get there.

Compare this to a show like Lost, which is also made up as they go, which has pretzeled itself to such an extreme, the only way they can possibly answer at least half the questions (Which is about all that ever will get answered) is through time travel/dimensional explanations, etc.

Dafoomie, you are a little bit right. Just a little. Let's pretend something. I challenge you to write out a story. Write a story, but you are only allowed to write a chapter a month. At the end of each month, you'll be told if you are allowed to write the next one. But being allowed to write the next one is all contigent on how much people like the previous one; how gripping it was, and how much it makes others want to read the next one. You get paid 100,000 dollars for each chapter. So you very much want to make people want the next one. At the same time, go ahead and have the entire thing planned out in your head.
Also, you'll occasionally be asked to write "one-off" chapters that go nowhere. Make sure each episode fits nicely into the next - much more logically than BSG. Oh and one more thing, be ready, at any time, to be told the next chapter is the last, so you have to be able to wrap it all up in one chapter.

Easy right? All you have to do is continuously add mysteries that people are dying to know the answers to, drag it on indefinitely, but be prepared to answer them all abruptly at any given time.

Welcome to the world of tv writing.

dafoomie

02-22-2009, 02:43 AM

No it wasn't. The acting was crap, the special effects have aged worse than a jack o lattern in December, and the writing was horribly overrated. Deep Space Nine took the long story arc idea and ran with it a bunch of times in its second half and did it much, much, much better. Shit, TNG's two-parters were more interesting than B5's. I'll give it credit for being REALLY FUCKING EPIC, but not for quality.
Most of the special effects still hold up. The acting was hit or miss but Peter Jurasik and Andreas Katsulas were outstanding. Seasons 3 and 4 of that show were some of the best TV I've ever watched.

The most epic parts of DS9 where they started doing arcs and the Dominion War were only done after B5 had done an outstanding job with the Shadow War and the EA Civil War. Sit down and watch Severed Dreams from season 3, outstanding stuff.

Its probably easier to keep the story consistent when one guy is largely responsible for all of it, like with B5, but you've got to at least plan ahead for one full season. BSG would bunch up all of the story at the ends of each season and the middle would go absolutely nowhere. Planning far ahead is how you execute long arcs, and lesser shows have done better planning and spaced out the story more evenly.

I love BSG but its not without its flaws. If you put aside the love triangle and the filler episodes, its the best show outside of HBO in many years.

bigdaddy

02-22-2009, 12:11 PM

Most of the special effects for Star Trek look like a joke too, doesn't make the show terrible. :roll:

BSG had no plan, they didn't really have an end point. Listen to the podcasts and it's "Well we didn't want to do an election, but we had to". Then season 3 was hacked because a huge subplot for several episodes was cut at the last minute.

A agree with dafoomie for the most part, however they brought up Baltar being president when him and Roslin were fleeing the ship a few episodes part.

evanft

02-27-2009, 10:30 PM

Wow, the first half was practically pointless. I really don't give a shit about Tyrol and Boomer.

evanft

02-27-2009, 10:55 PM

I FUCKING KNEW IT I FUCKING KNEW IT!!!!!

The piano player was a head person!!!

I revise my previous statement, this episode was great. The first half made the second pay off.

bigdaddy

02-27-2009, 11:14 PM

No the episode sucked.

Wow 5 minutes of it was great! Wow! Now how about Moore and company do something with the other 40 minutes!!!

I feel like smashing Moore's head against the wall while yelling "Get to the fucking point!!! There is no time for build up!!!!"

Javery

02-27-2009, 11:26 PM

I thought it was good. They are setting up everything to go wrong for the next 2 episodes so it can be resolved in the finale. So are we led to believe that Kara's father was Daniel (the 13th Cylon) and since we know he was boxed, that would explain why he left and she never heard from him? It would also make Kara 1/2 Cylon and explain her ability to be reborn. Also, Boomer is EVIL.

thrustbucket

02-27-2009, 11:43 PM

I FUCKING KNEW IT I FUCKING KNEW IT!!!!!

The piano player was a head person!!!

I revise my previous statement, this episode was great. The first half made the second pay off.

I actually didn't even think he was "head person", I thought it was just her, imagining him to get answers, because she's slowly been going crazy about what she is. But it's possible that you are right. And my bets are still on her father being daniel. They went to extra emphasis to point out how her father "just disappeared", which coincides with his whole model being wiped out.

Good episode. I like the build up.

Word has it the next episode pretty much answers everything.

Edit, I will predict right now that from now on (as we've seen so far) a larger and larger percentage of fans are going to be all bent out of shape and pissed each of the next episodes as what they want to happen, isn't going to.

evanft

02-27-2009, 11:52 PM

bigdaddy

02-28-2009, 12:58 AM

I think Starbuck is too young to have Daniel be her dad, but who knows.

However Moore said that Daniel is just a one off thing to explain their screwed up numbers, but he's a liar so who knows.

Kaijufan

02-28-2009, 01:24 AM

I think Starbuck is too young to have Daniel be her dad, but who knows.

However Moore said that Daniel is just a one off thing to explain their screwed up numbers, but he's a liar so who knows.
The first Cylon War happened 40 years before second war. I'm not sure exactly how old Starbuck is supposed to be but I imagine she's somewhere between 25 and 30.

bigdaddy

02-28-2009, 01:58 AM

It doesn't matter, she can't be a half Cylon because then Hera wouldn't be special.

evanft

02-28-2009, 11:56 AM

The first Cylon War happened 40 years before second war. I'm not sure exactly how old Starbuck is supposed to be but I imagine she's somewhere between 25 and 30.

Katee Sackhoff is around 30, so the timing works.

Magus8472

02-28-2009, 03:06 PM

I want to know where the "we have no qualms with summary executions" guys from three episodes ago went. Suddenly war criminals get legal process again? How's for some consistency?

Dunvane

02-28-2009, 05:43 PM

road3283

02-28-2009, 09:22 PM

If Starbuck isn't a transformed version of Daniel herself, then Daniel is her father. There really isn't anything else she could be at this point.

This seems to be the best guess. The only other option I could think of is that she somehow unkowningly rediscovered the organic means of reincarnation. But that doesn't account for how she knew the Cylon song.

Edit, I will predict right now that from now on (as we've seen so far) a larger and larger percentage of fans are going to be all bent out of shape and pissed each of the next episodes as what they want to happen, isn't going to.

I'm cool with that as long as they executed it well. Sometimes the right choice for the story isn't the popular one. I wonder if they have the balls to consider actually ending it with the destruction of the human race.

evanft

02-28-2009, 10:53 PM

I feel like it was pretty obvious that A) the piano player was a "head person," as he fit all the criteria previously given about those type of characters, and B) that the piano player was her father. The show went to great lengths to show connections between what she remembered her father doing (ex. touching her ear/face) and what the piano player did. Plus he helped her remember the song, which is the cylon song.

If Starbuck isn't a transformed version of Daniel herself, then Daniel is her father. There really isn't anything else she could be at this point.

Well, that means that either Daniel was old as fuck when he was still around little Starbuck, or she doesn't remember what he looked like.

I've said it before, I'll say it again:
Dirk. Benedict.

EDIT:
http://www.bearmccreary.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/bg419b6.jpg

Javery

02-28-2009, 11:35 PM

Live at the ????? Opera House. Interesting.

dafoomie

03-01-2009, 12:35 AM

Zak Adama and Starbuck's mother are in the next episode. More flashbacks?

The piano player can't be Daniel because Ellen would've recognized him.