The Randy "The Ram" Robinson Wrestling Thread

[Genocidal]

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/7115/wrestleraronofskypromo0oc6.jpg

Randy "The Ram" Robinson (real name Robin Ramzinski) (Mickey Rourke) is a professional wrestler from the 1980s, twenty years past his prime, wrestling on the weekends for various independent wrestling promotions in the Elizabeth, New Jersey area, for extra money. After a show, a promoter proposes a 20th anniversary rematch with his most notable opponent, the Ayatollah (Ernest Miller), who is now working in a used car dealership in Arizona. Their first match together sold out Madison Square Garden, and Randy agrees, hoping this high-profile match could help him get back to the top.

The Wrestler was the winner of the Golden Lion Award for Best Film at the Venice Film Festival. For his part as The Ram, Mickey trained under former WWE wrestler Afa the Wild Samoan. Rourke has been nominated for best actor for the 2008 Independent Spirit Awards. He received his first Golden Globe for best actor for his role.

The Wrestler is set to be released nationwide on January 23rd.

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/595/thewrestlerposterxh5.jpg

[Demolition Man]

I hope this movie finds its way to a theater close to me. I really want to see it on the big screen.

For classic RAW:

http://www.justin.tv/kgstvownz

Enjoy!

[Scorch]

Seconded.

[Genocidal]

That was a surprising ending.... I figured if Vince was coming back he'd be back for more than one show. Wouldn't be surprised to see Orton get suspended for kicking Vince in the head if the rumors about him attacking a fan are true.

[Purple Flames]

Interesting pick for the thread title. I think this marks the first time we've ever dedicated the wrestling thread to a fictional wrestler.

This leaves the door wide open for guys like Thunderlips, Bonesaw, and Jimmy King ;)

[bornrunnin31]

(copied from pwinsider)

"The Wrestler" will open in the following markets this weekend:
Friday, January 23rd
Anchorage
Asheville
Baton Rouge
Birmingham
Buffalo
Champaign/Decatur/Springfield
Charlotte
Charlottesville
Colorado Springs
Corpus Christi
Dayton
Des Moines
Ft. Myers
Gainesville
Grand Rapids
Harrisburg, PA
Ithaca
Jacksonville
Knoxville
Lansing
Lexington
Lousiville
Memphis
Nashville
New Orleans
Norfolk/Newport News
Oklahoma City
Omaha
Pittsburgh
Portland, ME
Providence
Raleigh/Durham
Reno
Richmond
San Antonio
Santa Fe
Sarasota
Spokane
Syracuse
Tallahassee
Tampa/St. Petersburg
Tucson
Tulsa

[GuilewasNK]

Mickey Rourke, humankind's greatest argument against plastic surgery since Michael Jackson, Donnatella Versace and Lil' Kim.

[BustaUppa]

That was a surprising ending.... I figured if Vince was coming back he'd be back for more than one show. Wouldn't be surprised to see Orton get suspended for kicking Vince in the head if the rumors about him attacking a fan are true.Yeah, one can only assume that's all the Vince we'll be getting for the next few months. If he came back sooner it would just make Batista look like a bitch!

Personally I was hoping they'd do something way off the wall and have Vince do a Steven Hawking gimmick. Or like Christopher Pike in Star Trek... one light means yes, two lights means no, etc. Congratulations to all nerds who know what I'm talking about. But the segment we got was still fun, so yay!

[KaneRobot]

Makes me wonder if Randy is getting suspended for attacking that fan over the weekend.

Would seem par for the course when it comes to Randy Orton

Or almost anyone on the roster that isn't totally worthless. Yeah, Brian Christopher may get shitcanned after getting busted with weed at the border, but it's not like they were going to do anything with him. On the other hand, Jeff Hardy gets countless chances and winds up world champion. JBL salutes Hitler in Germany and is rewarded with an even bigger push...although the bitter wrestling fans who JBL had been referring to as fat nerds (or whatever) getting their revenge by getting him fired off that Fox News Show after it happened was hilarious.

[mykevermin]

I know JBL was on FOX occasionally, but he had a regular program? And he was fired due to rasslin' fans? Do tell.

[lmz00]

He's still on Fox News.

[TheRock88]

Damn, that was one of the best Raw endings in a while.

[mykevermin]

Jericho was brought back and Orton "Orton death kick'd" (whatever they call it) Vince McMahon?

Sounds pretty good. When it was 10:56 and I realized that all that was left was for Vince to come out, I said "why am I waiting on this again?" and turned on Bioshock instead.

I don't feel like I missed anything that amazing. It's a positive sign that the show won't be "Monday Night McMahon" anytime soon, but 1 McMahon is already all over the show and that's too bloody much.

[Sporadic]

I don't feel like I missed anything that amazing.

You didn't besides the ending.

(skip to the 3:00 mark)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4gr8P0P60g

(better quality of just the main stuff)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxnA1cKIZk4

They built it up perfectly.

[cdeener]

What was the purpose in firing Jericho then bring him back a week later?

That kick by Orton was awesome. The McMahons need to stay off TV period.

[BustaUppa]

Yeah that was a great kick... the slow-motion replay actually made it look better!

[guyver2077]

Damn, that was one of the best Raw endings in a while.

i forget her name right now but the chick on your avatar rules.. does great work :)

[TheRock88]

i forget her name right now but the chick on your avatar rules.. does great work :)

Gabriella Fox

She has a new dvd out today, cant wait to watch it. ;)

[BustaUppa]

It's funny how much they've gone out of their way to mention ROSA MENDEZ by name every week. Not even ATTEMPTING to work people on this one, lol. Last night they even had Micheal Cole saying something like "conspicuous by her absence this week is ROSA MENDEZ, King!"

I assume they just made a conscious decision not to add any "shooty" overtones to this angle, because they've demonstrated in the past that they can sell a "security jumper" gimmick if they want to (Matt Hardy/Edge sparked a few great moments of internet chaos). I could see that being the case, since Santino's involvement doesn't really lend itself to a quasi-shoot storyline anyway.

[neocisco]

Watching that ending reminds me why I don't miss Raw. Ugh.

[KaneRobot]

I know JBL was on FOX occasionally, but he had a regular program? And he was fired due to rasslin' fans? Do tell.

Sorry, didn't mean it to sound like he had a full show, if that's what it reads like. He did have a regularly scheduled (weekly? twice weekly?) appearance as a financial analyst on one of the shows for quite a while. After the Nazi salute thing in Germany went down, a ton of people (ie smarky-smarks that hated him) called the station to complain - not like your average Wall Street Wizard is going to know what's going on with WWE house shows overseas, after all. As a result, they kicked him off the show and did a real official soundin' "We do not condone this behavior and it in no way reflects our station" etc etc etc. I wish I could find the quote from Bradshaw and Vince reacting to it but I haven't been able to track it down. It was actually kind of cool in a "Joey Styles punched him in the face, therefore the nerds he makes fun of win" way.

Regardless, he was hired for a different show eventually after it blew over. Nerds lose :(

[JaytheGamefan]

"The Wrestler" by Bruce Springsteen -
http://www.sendspace.com/file/vd3p6e

[diddy310]

The band that plays Orton's theme is scheduled to be on Raw next week, so if he's getting suspended for the fan hitting I guess they will have a storyline firing/suspension next week so they don't mess up the plan to promote the Voices/Vol.9 CD with the bands appearance

[Chuplayer]

Did Orton really assault a fan? I don't see it reported on 1wrestling or Rajah.

That kick to Vince's head looked brutal. He may have botched that.

[diddy310]

It was on Rajah at one point, but it was taken down, it's still on LoP, supposedly the fan said something that pissed him off, he exchanged words with the fan, threw his hat and shoved the guard rail into him

[Survivor Charlie]

If you're a wrestler and you can't deal with a fan yelling at you, it's time to give up.

For a good time watch the 1996 King of the Ring. When Davey Boy Smith makes his entrance during the main event, a fan calls his wife a, quote, "c*nt" and Davey seriously freaked out, threatening to kick the shit out of the guy. Good times.

[strongpimphand]

(copied from pwinsider)

"The Wrestler" will open in the following markets this weekend:
Friday, January 23rd
Anchorage
Asheville
Baton Rouge
Birmingham
Buffalo
Champaign/Decatur/Springfield
Charlotte
Charlottesville
Colorado Springs
Corpus Christi
Dayton
Des Moines
Ft. Myers
Gainesville
Grand Rapids
Harrisburg, PA
Ithaca
Jacksonville
Knoxville
Lansing
Lexington
Lousiville
Memphis
Nashville
New Orleans
Norfolk/Newport News
Oklahoma City
Omaha
Pittsburgh
Portland, ME
Providence
Raleigh/Durham
Reno
Richmond
San Antonio
Santa Fe
Sarasota
Spokane
Syracuse
Tallahassee
Tampa/St. Petersburg
Tucson
Tulsa
obviously they're going to open mainly in the south...

[Survivor Charlie]

See, if Jericho was worth a crap, when the fans were chanting "ON YOUR KNEES!" at him, he would have grabbed a mic and said "I think they're asking if that's how you serviced Randy Savage" to Steph.

[TheEyecon]

I want to see Shane O' Mac on my TV on Monday Nights, not Steph bitch-slaping Randy Orton.

[mykevermin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mqb4beyTCYc

This is where Bulldog spazzes out on a guy in the crowd? That ain't nothin.

[JJSP]

Sick ref bump though in the video package before the match.

Watch the Chris Hero fight. Indie shows are excellent for wrestler/fan interaction.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7yaM7FiMX4

[Survivor Charlie]

This is where Bulldog spazzes out on a guy in the crowd? That ain't nothin.

Unless you account for the fact that after the show Davey wandered around the parking lot looking for the guy with his wife and Owen trying to talk him out of kicking the shit out of him.

[JJSP]

Sounds like more internet gossip to me.

I heard BustaUppa gave a little old lady an enziguri. She no-sold it TNA style and hit him with the heart punch.

[cdubb1605]

Sounds like more internet gossip to me.

I heard BustaUppa gave a little old lady an enziguri. She no-sold it TNA style and hit him with the heart punch.

you got it all wrong... BustaUppa gave two old guys super kicks, they responded by sitting up Undertaker style then proceeded to put Busta through a table via the 3D

[diddy310]

"Burchill accompanied by Katie Lea, the Scarlet Witch, I guess that makes Paul Burchill Quicksilver" - Matt Striker

Awesome

[Survivor Charlie]

Sounds like more internet gossip to me.

No, according to Jim Cornette and Bret Hart, it's true.

Trust me, I can separate gossip from reality. It's simple. If it's written by Dave Meltzer, it's likely not true.

[mykevermin]

"Burchill accompanied by Katie Lea, the Scarlet Witch, I guess that makes Paul Burchill Quicksilver" - Matt Striker

Awesome

I'm afraid to admit this, but I don't get it. Comic book reference?

Unless you account for the fact that after the show Davey wandered around the parking lot looking for the guy with his wife and Owen trying to talk him out of kicking the shit out of him.

You know, I know too much about pro wrestling. I don't deny that. But you? Between this and the Juventud blowjob scenario, you follow way, way, way too much into shit that doesn't concern you.

[Chuplayer]

I'm afraid to admit this, but I don't get it. Comic book reference?

Yes. X-Men. Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are brother and sister. I don't know about the main Marvel Universe, but in the Ultimate Universe they're incestuous.

[diddy310]

Yeah, Scarlet Witch/Quicksilver are Magneto's children

[mykevermin]

Oh...okay, I remember Quicksilver then. Read about him, even if I never really followed the X-Men comic. I'm not familiar w/ Scarlet Witch, though. Thanks.

[007]

So, I flipped to ECW and saw that fairly good Royal Rumble promo.

... yeah, so the number one spot in the Rumble has produced the same amount of winners (1), huh?

Not mentioning him ever again, fine. I'm oddly less ok with literally pretending he never existed.



Edit - Or, I guess they could just be extremely inconsistent: http://www.wwe.com/shows/royalrumble/facts/

[mykevermin]

So, I flipped to ECW and saw that fairly good Royal Rumble promo.

... yeah, so the number one spot in the Rumble has produced the same amount of winners (1), huh?

??? Did they misrepresent the facts, or was is a sort of video promo "awkward silence where we deny Chris Benoit existed"?

I'm sympathetic. There's really no way to handle it well.

[cdubb1605]

So, I flipped to ECW and saw that fairly good Royal Rumble promo.

... yeah, so the number one spot in the Rumble has produced the same amount of winners (1), huh?

Not mentioning him ever again, fine. I'm oddly less ok with literally pretending he never existed.



Edit - Or, I guess they could just be extremely inconsistent: http://www.wwe.com/shows/royalrumble/facts/


false, they make note that no. 1 and no. 30 have both produced the same number of winners.... no 1 being hbk and benoit (only hbk shown) and no 30 being taker and cena

[Survivor Charlie]

You know, I know too much about pro wrestling. I don't deny that. But you? Between this and the Juventud blowjob scenario, you follow way, way, way too much into shit that doesn't concern you.

I have a long, long history with professional wrestling. And I kind of have a photographic memory of sorts (there really is no such thing, per say), so if I read something, I retain it.

Besides, the backstage stuff is often more fun then the real stuff.

Take Sid... kind of a nutjob in the ring, but outside the ring he kills his pet squirrel on a bet of how long he could keep it in his pants. No joke. That's why Sid is King of the Squirrels.

Shit is fun.

[BustaUppa]

I will admit to having an unhealthy ability to date key points in my life by whatever wrestling event was going on around that time. Not to mention awkwardly incorporating WWF into any school papers/projects I could manage to rationalize. I'm practically a savant with any WWF TV that happened before I went to college!

Sounds like more internet gossip to me.

I heard BustaUppa gave a little old lady an enziguri. She no-sold it TNA style and hit him with the heart punch.

you got it all wrong... BustaUppa gave two old guys super kicks, they responded by sitting up Undertaker style then proceeded to put Busta through a table via the 3DWhy must all Busta gossip end with me taking finishers :-(

[-Never4ever-]

So I spent $13 on 2 tix to see the wrestler, only to find out it's coming out this friday at my job & I could've seen it for free? To make matters worse, my GF didn't like the movie, and now I have to take her to Bride Wars as compensation / punishment to me.

Oh well, movie was pretty good, even if it was pretty light on story and gave a bit too much time to the matches themselves.

[Mr. Beef]

Why must all Busta gossip end with me taking finishers :-(
Don't you have the Codebreaker Skull Busta as your finisher? ;)

[BustaUppa]

Don't you have the Codebreaker Skull Busta as your finisher? ;)Damn straight sucka!!!
http://a110.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/30/m_287b0d25e6026e8e68c2a4679461a8f5.gif

and, to remain consistent with the theme...
...we'll end with Busta taking a finisher:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v60/BustaUppa/Comments/DanBarryfinishesoffBustaUppaslow-1.gif

[-Never4ever-]

OUCH! sick looking finisher there Busta the one you took :-p

Random Q; thinking about getting in to Pro Wrestling, was wondering how you managed to break into the biz?

[BustaUppa]

OUCH! sick looking finisher there Busta the one you took :-p

Random Q; thinking about getting in to Pro Wrestling, was wondering how you managed to break into the biz?haha, gotta love the No Mercy special there :-P

As far as "breaking into the biz," I'm not really a good one to ask, for the following reasons:

1) I'm not so much an "indy guy" as I am a "part time, local indy guy." I'm not looking to go anywhere with this or "make it," in the typical sense. Just having a great time doing something I love, while still holding on to my normal life.

2) My "break" had very little to with my own ambition, and very much to do with knowing the right people, and being in the right place at the right time.

That said, here's how I got involved, in a nutshell.... My cousin is an agent for numerous wrestlers on the indy scene, and he got connected with a somewhat nontraditional wrestling school that was starting up. He asked if I wanted in. I figured I would kick myself if I didn't at least give it a shot, so I started attending the classes. After a year, the school started putting on shows... and as their first 100% homegrown talent, I've been booked on pretty much every one of them!

Thus pretty much all of my work has been with "Pro Wrestling Revolution" of Long Island. I've done extra gigs here and there - a birthday party in New Jersey, and a prison ministry event in Riker's Island are two of the most interesting examples - but even then, it's been with the same core group of workers. So I'm not an "indy scene" guy, per se, but that's how my experience has unfolded thus far!

[Mr. Beef]

For a split second, I thought he was asking how to get into Fire Pro Wrestling...how did I see that?

[JJSP]

The local Borders Express is closing in a few days, so all of their "bargain books" are 75% off of the clearance price. I picked up Foley's "Hardcore Diaries" hardcover for $1.25 - unsurprisingly, they had a TON of copies.

[Genocidal]

BustaUppa, your post was leaps and bounds more exciting than ECW.

[007]

false, they make note that no. 1 and no. 30 have both produced the same number of winners.... no 1 being hbk and benoit (only hbk shown) and no 30 being taker and cena

I admit it... that was my fault, since I forgot about Taker entering at 30. I can't find the promo online yet, but I doun't remember them showing Taker at that part of the package, so that may be where the confusion came in.

Sadly, if they did only show Michaels and Cena, I almost have to actually give them a 'good job' for how tactfully it was been handled.

[mykevermin]

They did show 'taker.

[007]

So, uh, I seem to have really screwed up on that one, then. Sorry.

... anyway, I thought was a well-put together promo, and was actually surprised to see Chyna given her own part (for the ultimate bettering of Stone Cold, but still).

[cdubb1605]

So, uh, I seem to have really screwed up on that one, then. Sorry.

... anyway, I thought was a well-put together promo, and was actually surprised to see Chyna given her own part (for the ultimate bettering of Stone Cold, but still).

yeah the entire promo is put together really well, my fave part is when one of the bushwhackers is coming to the ring doing their walk, enters the ring, gets tossed out and keeps on walking like nothing happened

[mykevermin]

yeah the entire promo is put together really well, my fave part is when one of the bushwhackers is coming to the ring doing their walk, enters the ring, gets tossed out and keeps on walking like nothing happened

I did laugh at that.

It was an excellent way of promoting the PPV based on the history of the event itself. Which is a unique angle that almost even got me interested in the show despite the snowball's chance in hell of my paying for it. Is it this Sunday or next?

So, uh, I seem to have really screwed up on that one, then. Sorry.

bah. no worries.

[cdeener]

It is this Sunday in my town but I'm not going.

[guyver2077]

Gabriella Fox

She has a new dvd out today, cant wait to watch it. ;)


yup.. thats her.. absolutely incredible...

[bornrunnin31]

So I spent $13 on 2 tix to see the wrestler, only to find out it's coming out this friday at my job & I could've seen it for free? To make matters worse, my GF didn't like the movie, and now I have to take her to Bride Wars as compensation / punishment to me.

Oh well, movie was pretty good, even if it was pretty light on story and gave a bit too much time to the matches themselves.

So you're saying it's the exact opposite of every Monday Night Raw for the past 3 years?

[strongpimphand]

So I spent $13 on 2 tix to see the wrestler, only to find out it's coming out this friday at my job & I could've seen it for free? To make matters worse, my GF didn't like the movie, and now I have to take her to Bride Wars as compensation / punishment to me.

Oh well, movie was pretty good, even if it was pretty light on story and gave a bit too much time to the matches themselves.
seemed to be the opposite to me....

[-Never4ever-]

haha, gotta love the No Mercy special there :-P

As far as "breaking into the biz," I'm not really a good one to ask, for the following reasons:

1) I'm not so much an "indy guy" as I am a "part time, local indy guy." I'm not looking to go anywhere with this or "make it," in the typical sense. Just having a great time doing something I love, while still holding on to my normal life.

2) My "break" had very little to with my own ambition, and very much to do with knowing the right people, and being in the right place at the right time.

That said, here's how I got involved, in a nutshell.... My cousin is an agent for numerous wrestlers on the indy scene, and he got connected with a somewhat nontraditional wrestling school that was starting up. He asked if I wanted in. I figured I would kick myself if I didn't at least give it a shot, so I started attending the classes. After a year, the school started putting on shows... and as their first 100% homegrown talent, I've been booked on pretty much every one of them!

Thus pretty much all of my work has been with "Pro Wrestling Revolution" of Long Island. I've done extra gigs here and there - a birthday party in New Jersey, and a prison ministry event in Riker's Island are two of the most interesting examples - but even then, it's been with the same core group of workers. So I'm not an "indy scene" guy, per se, but that's how my experience has unfolded thus far!

Thanks for the insight, and I'm not honestly looking to make it in the industry. For starters I don't have the body of a Pro Wrestlers (well outside Dreamer, Brother Ray & the gut Matt Hardy sometimes produces :lol:), and I'm already banged up partly from backyard wrestling, partly from just being so out of shape as a kid.

It's ironic because I'm being given a similar chance like yourself. Turns out I know a few buddies from the community college I attend that work for a promotion called Old School Pro Wrestling (the same place Beth Phoenix started out in), and I guess word is going around that they want to start up a school or training seminar of some sort and want me in (because at 6'2, 235 lbs I look like a Pro Wrestler).

At this point, I'm looking at it as a Hobby. I have a better chance at being a professional Yu-Gi-Oh! player than a Pro Wrestler :lol:

[-Never4ever-]

So you're saying it's the exact opposite of every Monday Night Raw for the past 3 years?

Eh, I'd say the past 8 years or so. Actually I don't think there's ever been a time in the WWF/WWE (circa Vince Jr coming into power) where wrestling didn't take a backseat to story.

seemed to be the opposite to me....

As a wrestling fan I dug it, however non wrestling fans will just get annoyed. Honestly I didn't expect them to expose the biz as much as they did. It's no wonder why Vince hated the movie so much. Also it's no wonder the one reviewer thought it was based on Mick Foley. Foley has that run-down look to him.

[Fanboy]

Honestly I didn't expect them to expose the biz as much as they did. It's no wonder why Vince hated the movie so much.

Vince hating anything for exposing the business after McMahon-approved projects like Beyond the Mat, Tough Enough, WWF Unscripted and essentially every episode of RAW from 1997-2001 is the expected level of hypocrisy.

I love how Vince always wants to have his cake, eat it too, sell it as well and stop anyone else from having cake at the same time.

[TheEyecon]

I don't know if someone cares but here's the trailer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RzZDBww-3k

I'm curious about how this movie will affect Cena's fanbase since it's rated PG-13. And I'm just wondering if this movie will suck as much as The Marine did.

[mykevermin]

Vince hated the movie because it's respected. McMahon is financially well off, but let's be honest: he's tried TONS of promoting tactics/organizations over the years, and the WWF/WWE has been the only success. EVERYTHING ELSE he has done has been an unmitigated failure. The WBF, the XFL, his financial failures in promoting the Eval Knieval Snake River Whatever jump and the Ali/Inoki boxer vs wrestler match, his laughably miserable movies, etc.

He didn't just fail to succeed, his track record outside of professional wrestling is what internet memes like "EPIC FAIL" are made from.

So, now WWE finances (remember kids, all you need to be an "executive producer" is a checkbook) some straight-to-video quality films that make a profit. But "The Marine" was not a critical darling. McMahon can't get a break by his peers. So he scorns them when they do things. Especially when they come into the turf that he is successful in. Even worse when they receive critical adulation for it.

There's no reason to be jealous of The Wrestler for its exposure of the business. WWE has been open about that for two decades, and kayfabe is dead. Seeing photographs of Edge working in a soup kitchen on WWE.com a few weeks back should remind you that they don't mind exposing the business.

There's no reason to be jealous of The Wrestler for its revenue. It's going to make money, but it's a critical darling that won't be a bank-buster for Fox Searchlight.

In the end, it's the respect that McMahon has *never* succeeded in earning from his media peers that he's jealous of. He feels like he deserves it, and doesn't understand why he doesn't have it.

[-Never4ever-]

I love how Vince always wants to have his cake, eat it too, sell it as well and stop anyone else from having cake at the same time.

:lol: He always comes off as the spoiled rich kid on the playground.


In the end, it's the respect that McMahon has *never* succeeded in earning from his media peers that he's jealous of. He feels like he deserves it, and doesn't understand why he doesn't have it.

Never thought about it like that actually. It really makes McMahon look like the George Bush Jr of Pro Wrestling -- an incompetent failure that only managed to make it because of Daddy and because he was surrounded by people who don't suck at their job.

It's times like these that I look back at early 2001 and remember at one point I was actually
happy WWE purchased WCW.

[Chase]

I watched the Wrestler yesterday and really enjoyed it. I think the Wrestler rivals Raging Bull. I feel Rourke's Robinson is a more personable and sympathetic character than DeNiro's LaMotta.

:lol: He always comes off as the spoiled rich kid on the playground.



Never thought about it like that actually. It really makes McMahon look like the George Bush Jr of Pro Wrestling -- an incompetent failure that only managed to make it because of Daddy and because he was surrounded by people who don't suck at their job.

It's times like these that I look back at early 2001 and remember at one point I was actually
happy WWE purchased WCW.


I was never happy that the McMahon's bought WCW.

[Survivor Charlie]

In the end, it's the respect that McMahon has *never* succeeded in earning from his media peers that he's jealous of. He feels like he deserves it, and doesn't understand why he doesn't have it.

More to your point, I've always felt McMahon doesn't grasp pop culture. I watched a shoot with Unibrow Russo and Ed Ferrera, two guys who I don't particularly care for but they hit the nail on the head... Vince lives in the "Wrestling Bubble" and doesn't have time to take in things like TV shows.

When Ashley wanted permission to go on Survivor, I heard they had to stop just short of using sock puppets and a chalk board to explain to McMahon what exactly Survivor was. The show had been on at that point for seven years and was vastly popular.

The original Doink the Clown was conceived when Shane McMahon read Stephen King's "It" and wanted to base a character around the nightmare clown Pennywise. Everyone liked it, until Vince McMahon was let off on his drug charges and he 'didn't get it' and changed it to his liking, killing a perfectly good gimmick.

And then you get things like the Donald Trump vs. Rosie O'Donnel 'match' or Barack Obama vs. Hillary Clinton. Vince can't do mainstream. He's the only one who doesn't get that. Not that wrestling needs to be mainstream.

[Purple Flames]

Let's not forget Vince scrapping both The Blonde Bytch Project and "Pirate" Paul Burchill because he'd never seen the movies either angle was based on, and assumed no one else had either, despite their immense popularity at the times of their release.

[Survivor Charlie]

Let's not forget Vince scrapping both The Blonde Bytch Project and "Pirate" Paul Burchill because he'd never seen the movies either angle was based on, and assumed no one else had either, despite their immense popularity at the times of their release.

Actually they scrapped the Blond Bytch Project because legal advised them not to do a parody of Sable while she was actively suing the company.

[-Never4ever-]

I was never happy that the McMahon's bought WCW.

Well I hated the way WCW was run into the ground by that point and thought WWE would turn WCW around. At that point I was as a HUGE WWE mark and thought Vince & co. could do no wrong.

It was 2 weeks after WM17 that my faith in them would be shaken and by 2003 it would be almost completely gone.

[neocisco]

...kayfabe is dead...

C'mon, someone was going to do it eventually.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvTNyKIGXiI

It just never gets old.

[mykevermin]

Never thought about it like that actually. It really makes McMahon look like the George Bush Jr of Pro Wrestling -- an incompetent failure that only managed to make it because of Daddy and because he was surrounded by people who don't suck at their job.

Not a perfect analogy. Remember, the WWWF/Capitol Wrestling was a small-time indie league in the northeast. Or a "territory." Semantics, really. Vince McMahon Jr. made the WWF a success. Not dad. He deserves credit for that. Not as much as he gives himself, of course - after all, the WWF would be out of business if (and y'all hate to admit this) Vince Russo wasn't a part of the WWF in the 1990's when Vince decided to stop being the lone decision maker. You have to credit the people who worked there, not just Vince. But he wasn't handed a national wrestling company: he made it himself. With help from everyone else's talent. ;)

Let's not forget Vince scrapping both The Blonde Bytch Project and "Pirate" Paul Burchill because he'd never seen the movies either angle was based on, and assumed no one else had either, despite their immense popularity at the times of their release.

I vaguely remember the BBProject, and I do remember Pirate Paul Birchall. Most of those moments are poor/late attempts to capture pop culture. Even using Kevin Federline was too late in the realm of pop culture. Same with Donald Trump at WM23. Sadly, also the same with Run-DMC at WMV. They're never actually caught up with pop culture, but whether that's an artifact of pop culture not wanting to be associated with pro wrestling or the "Vince McMahon lives on a cultural island" lack of awareness is beyond me. Could be both.

But let's not forget that using current pop culture doesn't always work: see Master P and the No Limit Soldiers in WCW.

Well I hated the way WCW was run into the ground by that point and thought WWE would turn WCW around. At that point I was as a HUGE WWE mark and thought Vince & co. could do no wrong.

It was 2 weeks after WM17 that my faith in them would be shaken and by 2003 it would be almost completely gone.

I agree. I was a huge WWF fan at the time. Passionately hated WCW. I was completely, unabashedly convinced that Vince McMahon would keep WCW, make it better, build it back up, and compete with himself properly. I even thought so, for a moment, after the "brand split." But around the time Stephanie McMahon and Stone Cold were leading the "Alliance," I was done. The real, major, "fuck this, and fuck the WWE for fooling me into thinking they'd be responsible" moment was Kanyon and DDP vs. Kane and Undertaker in a cage match. If what strokes the egos of WWF management is entertaining TV, that's fine, but coincidental. But I could not be convinced, in the slightest, that booking WCW the way it was could ever be argued to be a financial decision to make them popular. They made no bones about intentionally killing WCW.

The absolute lack of effort they've put into utilizing their wrestling library is also a cultural travesty.

[007]

Everything that's been said on this page is *exactly* why I hate to see TNA fuck up so consistently. I wish there was a company that could actually compete with WWE on ANY level... honestly, I have no illusions about anyone truly being on the level of WWE, so I'll take literally the bare minimum at this point.

It's a conversation that I've had with a few people recently... let's be realistic: WWE is not going to recover from this ego-driven creative bankruptcy any time soon. Vince is in charge and not giving that up anytime soon... and when he does, it'll go to Steph and Trips. I can't possibly see any way that'll make it BETTER. If anything, Steph seems to have just as large of an ego as Vince, if not larger. It's really sad, because unless some unknown ass company comes out of nowhere to compete, WWE has no choice but to continue down this road.

At least with the end of WCW, it was just god-awful... there was personality in it. Someone was TRYING, and not necessarily to kill it... but they were striving for something. WWE is nothing but complacent, which I can't decide whether that's worse of not.

It just... it's just so frustrating. I *want* to love wrestling. I play the games, I read the news, I watch the DVDs, I'm in the process of buying a Winged Eagle replica... but I haven't watched weekly wrestling in YEARS. I love the concept of WWE, but the execution is not leaving me with anything to love anymore. A few bright spots (which, oddly, have been involving mainly HBK) can't save 5 hours of weekly programming.

I'm going to stop ranting now.

[JaytheGamefan]

Here's Benoit vs. Raven from Souled Out '98 -
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=X2K1RV0H

[Survivor Charlie]

I don't care if the storylines are bad as long as the wrestling is good.

My problem with TNA is they practice "WORST MOVE EVER SYNDROME" or WMES too much.

Here's the principle behind "Worst Move Ever."

Wrestler A hits Wrestler B with his finisher and covers. It gets two. Wrestler B then instantly recovers. Since the purpose of wrestling is to injure an opponent, Wrestler A's finisher is clearly worthless since it seems to actually heal a wrestler about five seconds after it's applied. Thus, it is the WORST WRESTLING MOVE EVER DONE

Wrestler B then hits his OWN VERSION of the Worst Move Ever, and it gets two. Wrestler A fully recovers and we go to the finish which usually in TNA involves the BEST MOVE EVER... a weapon shot followed by a school boy rollup.

Yes, WWE *occasionally* does such types of finishes. TNA does then EVERY MATCH ON EVERY PAY PER VIEW! The opening match guys do it, the midcard match guys do it, the main event does it. I don't even see why they bother hyping moves anymore because none of them work.

No sense of bitching about Kayfabe being dead when guys are kicking out of moves that should logically kill a person.

[mykevermin]

Ha. I'll just say that I'm amazed they make the decisions they do as a publicly traded company.

I know why they don't take chances on their programming from a publicly traded company standpoint. Safe, steady, consistent fiscal returns = happy investors.

But to sit on their video library except for their online on-demand service, which generates jack shit for revenues, and on-demand cable, which is an infrequently used service that generate jack shit plus one in revenues, is absurd. I'd demand an explanation (were I vapid enough to invest in WWE). Sure, they bought the *immense* video library for peanuts. Less than peanuts, I'd guess.

But the entry cost isn't the point. It's a guaranteed revenue stream. If I came across something that I could sell over and over again (an entertainment medium), I'd *owe* my shareholders to do just that, no? Whether I paid for it or tripped over it on the sidewalk.

Here's the kicker: WWE trades at around $10.50 right now per share, in 2009 money. They went public in 1999 at $17 a share. It's safe to say that WWE stock, then, is worth less than half of what it was offered at a decade ago. So they're clearly not doing something right on the fiscal end of things.

But you're right. It won't change the "ego first, ego second, ego third, revenue fourth" mantra of how WWE does business. WWE wouldn't host a War Games match if it meant PPV sales of 400,000+. That's a damned FACT.

So, while you want to smack some heads in Connecticut and ask them what the hell they're thinking, you expect egotistical direction in the programming. We've come to be relieved when guys we like are released. We'll get to see Paul London wrestle again, and have fun matches and be treated with dignity on tv! Probably soon to be joined by Colt Cabana. Awesome! I remember being *thrilled* a decade ago when indy guys/wcw guys/ecw guys would jump to the WWF. Now I'm just sad when they do.

What? You think Low Ki's gonna do anything except wrestle "Kung Fu Naki"? The hell kinda mark are you to think he'll be someone who matters in the company? Shit, he'll be gone before St Patty's Day out of his own volition.

[Vince McMahon]

Ho ho, I'm Vince McMahon dammit!

I will now spoil the Royal Rumble and Wrestlemania 25 Main Event:

Randy Orton wins the Rumble. I know, shocking isn't it. He's assisted by Stephanie McMahon, who proceeds to back Legacy, much in the same way Vince McMahon (dammit) had his Corporation.

This leads to Shane's return, who will question Stephanie's antics, what she did to their father, and ultimately he'll back Cena.

Thus the WM25 main event will be John Cena vs Randy Orton with McMahons in ever corner (again). And you don't have to wait to hear glass breaking to guess who the top choice to ref this match is.

Ultimately WM25 ends with Cena getting his win back for last year, and Austin stunning both McMahon children.


The people will love it, because people love to see McMahons get stunners, ho, ho, I'm Vince McMahon dammit!

[mykevermin]

Plausible. Very plausible. But it doesn't end with Triple H winning the belt, so I'm highly skeptical.

[diddy310]

I agree with the McMahon backed Legacy, however I think it will now come at the expense of Orton, with probably Stephanie backing Rhodes, Dibiase and i guess Smith. Especially since it was basically Cody Rhodes setting Orton up by saying Steph was going to fire him.

[Survivor Charlie]

Plausible. Very plausible. But it doesn't end with Triple H winning the belt, so I'm highly skeptical.

Right... because Triple H, who went from March of 2005 to April of 2008 without a world title reign lasting more then a couple hours demands to win every major match and being the center of every major story... plus he only got there by being the boss' son in law.

Has nothing to do with him being... you know... over.

[-Never4ever-]

Everything that's been said on this page is *exactly* why I hate to see TNA fuck up so consistently. I wish there was a company that could actually compete with WWE on ANY level... honestly, I have no illusions about anyone truly being on the level of WWE, so I'll take literally the bare minimum at this point.


I'm going to stop ranting now.

This pisses me off too. I really wanted to support TNA, I watched Impact when it was streaming, thanked the lord that they got a deal with spike and then 2 months later? Started hating them with a passion. Now its been what? 2 or 3 years since then and I honestly could give a shit what they do. I don't know who holds what title, and thats sad considering I could name the last 5 champs for every single title in the WWE -- even the inactive ones -- and I haven't watched wrestling weekly since 2005. TNA is so irrelevant to me right now, they might as well be dead.

Ho ho, I'm Vince McMahon dammit!

I will now spoil the Royal Rumble and Wrestlemania 25 Main Event:

Randy Orton wins the Rumble. I know, shocking isn't it. He's assisted by Stephanie McMahon, who proceeds to back Legacy, much in the same way Vince McMahon (dammit) had his Corporation.

This leads to Shane's return, who will question Stephanie's antics, what she did to their father, and ultimately he'll back Cena.

Thus the WM25 main event will be John Cena vs Randy Orton with McMahons in ever corner (again). And you don't have to wait to hear glass breaking to guess who the top choice to ref this match is.

Ultimately WM25 ends with Cena getting his win back for last year, and Austin stunning both McMahon children.



The people will love it, because people love to see McMahons get stunners, ho, ho, I'm Vince McMahon dammit!

It's scary, because it more than likely will happen.

Right... because Triple H, who went from March of 2005 to April of 2008 without a world title reign lasting more then a couple hours demands to win every major match and being the center of every major story... plus he only got there by being the boss' son in law.

Has nothing to do with him being... you know... over.

And who was STILL the headliner & star of RAW in that time frame? Come on, Triple H is now bigger than either World Title. Seriously a clean win over Trips is the equivelent of winning every title, in every brand, on the same night.

And yeah he's over. He's been over since 2000. Back when he still knew how to work a crowd and did what he did best, the pussy heel. Nowadays he's just another SuperFace that gets the reaction he does because he squashes damn near everyone & is shoved down our collective throats.

I'm a fan of Trips, but him & Cena need to ditch the whole SuperFace thing. Trips was infinitely better as the pussy heel who got his ass whipped, but managed to steal a victory because he outsmarted his foes.

[Survivor Charlie]

In a perfect world, if I was booking I would put the title on JBL at the Rumble, then do Michaels/JBL for the belt at Wrestlemania. Why?

Make Orton/Cena an undercard match, submission rules, and do a double turn with them ala Bret/Austin. Fans are dying to love Orton and they already flat out hate John Cena. It just makes sense. The way the crowd is reacting to Orton, I think they could make something special of him. The fans are accepting him the same way they accepted Austin or the Rock without any prompting from the storylines. Considering Austin and Rocky were the last two 'super draws' the WWE had, they should really try to recreate that magic the first chance they get, and this is it.

But like whatshisface above me said, they'll have him join with Stephanie McMahon, who is a cup full of hemlock to the ratings. The WWE's answer to every ratings dip is "more McMahons" and I don't see that ending anytime soon.

Wrestlemania is looking pretty bleak this year. I see nothing on the horizon to perk my interest. I said JBL/Michaels for the title only because I see no other options. Fans are sick of Cena and I've seen no proof he's good for ratings. I like him as a wrestler because despite limitations I think he's good at pacing and his comeback timing is fairly spot on... he's just a modern version of Hulk Hogan really, and the formula is a proven winner... but the fans are really done with him. He needs a heel turn and he needs it two years ago.

JBL and Michaels have NO CHEMISTRY together in these skits they're doing. Every single one of them as been a sleeping pill. I've never been able to tolerate JBL as a wrestler and despite revisionist history I think his entire reign as WWE Champion was an abomination in quality and in ratings/buyrates and I can't believe they keep going back to him.

I can't picture Triple H and Edge having a good match because they're styles strike me as being incompatible with eachother.

Christian Cage vs. Jeff Hardy... I think Christian is one of the most overrated wrestlers out there and I was happy when he was in TNA so he didn't have to stink up the WWE with his forced promos and phoned in matches. Jeff Hardy requires a special type of talent to carry him to a good match, and Christian is not it.

Jericho was on a roll in 2008, so naturally they have nothing on the table for him at this time. They'll likely stick him in Money in the Bank.

Wouldn't be shocked to see Undertaker win the Rumble and challenge Cena at this point. They need some major matchup to headline the show, because JBL/Michaels or Edge/Triple H is not going to do it.

Not loving the build to Wrestlemania at all.

[mykevermin]

Right... because Triple H, who went from March of 2005 to April of 2008 without a world title reign lasting more then a couple hours demands to win every major match and being the center of every major story... plus he only got there by being the boss' son in law.

Has nothing to do with him being... you know... over.

Your implication here is "37 straight months," but what's it actually look like when you take out the time he was injured for blowin' up a quad again?

[lordxixor101]

I really wish there was competition. I think, eventually, either TNA will get fixed, or someone will start something that can compete. There is money in professional wrestling, and whenever there is money, there is someone smart enough to get it (as Vince was years ago, using Andre the Giant).

I don't blame Vince though for the downfall of WCW. I think it's obvious that Vince truely hated WCW. He hated the very core of the company. That hatred is part of what drove the Attitude era. That being said, you can't hate something to the core, every breath thinking of ways to destroy something, and thne turn that switch off when you buy it. He bought it to destroy it, to live out his sick fantasies. The "invasion" angle was Vince's dream come true. It sucked for fans, but Vince enjoyed it.

What we need is another milionaire to get into the business that will drive Vince nuts again, either way its win/win. Heck, it could even be TNA if they could lure a couple of big names from WWE. Imagine Orton, Edge, Morrison, and Kofi Kingston leaving and going to TNA. I know that would catch my attention.

[diddy310]

Personally I think Edge retires whenever his WWE tenure ends, what more could he accomplish by going to TNA?


You absolutely know TNA would push those guys for about 3-4 months, give them a title match, then do absolutely nothing with them for 2 years straight

[Brak]

Televised wrestling sucked fat dick after AOL/Time-Warner sold WCW and after ECW folded.

[mykevermin]

Which is ironic, since WCW Nitro and Thunder were some of the most abysmal wrestling programs imaginable.

"TONIGHT IS THE GREATEST NIGHT IN THE HISTORY OF THE SPORT, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN! STAY TUNED FOR LANCE STORM VERSUS RENO IN A MATCH WITH 500 STIPULATIONS ON A POLE!"

Come to think of it, WWE doesn't do "____ on a pole" matches at *all*, do they? I can't think of the last time I saw one. Maybe a contract or some shit?

[JJSP]

We won't see 'Taker/Cena at WM. 'Taker's the most over guy in the company right now (more so than Cena, HHH, Orton, HBK, and anyone else you can think of), and putting him in the ring with Cena ensures that Cena gets booed. Undertaker would have to dropkick little Aurora Levesque into the third row to get heel heat at this point, and it damn sure isn't going to happen at Wrestlemania. While it's interesting to consider Cena ending the Deadman's streak, I really don't think it's going to happen despite 'Taker's limited ring time.

Gossip sites have made a huge deal out of Austin's HOF induction and the fact that 'Mania is in Texas. They've completely ignored that Undertaker is from Houston these days as well.

[mykevermin]

Undertaker would have to dropkick little Aurora Levesque into the third row

That would redefine the "Road Warrior Pop."

[BustaUppa]

Come to think of it, WWE doesn't do "____ on a pole" matches at *all*, do they? I can't think of the last time I saw one. Maybe a contract or some shit?Recently, they did some silly bit with giant fuzzy dice on a pole, to determine a #1 contender for the Divas belt... yeah

[Brak]

Which is ironic, since WCW Nitro and Thunder were some of the most abysmal wrestling programs imaginable.

"TONIGHT IS THE GREATEST NIGHT IN THE HISTORY OF THE SPORT, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN! STAY TUNED FOR LANCE STORM VERSUS RENO IN A MATCH WITH 500 STIPULATIONS ON A POLE!"

Come to think of it, WWE doesn't do "____ on a pole" matches at *all*, do they? I can't think of the last time I saw one. Maybe a contract or some shit?
WCW Nitro was golden from 1996 - 1998, in my opinion.

[mykevermin]

Recently, they did some silly bit with giant fuzzy dice on a pole, to determine a #1 contender for the Divas belt... yeah

fuzzy dice? sounds like someone (1) forgot to pick out what to put on the pole until 45 seconds before the match, or (2) found a trunk of Eddie Guerrero stuff on a WWE truck.

WCW Nitro was golden from 1996 - 1998, in my opinion.

Fair enough. Maybe they get a hard shake, because at the time they were sinking, they got even more and more bizzare (visions of Vince Russo in a popemobile, David Arquette as the champ, three-tiered cage matches, Fat Chick Thriller Mike Awesome, etc. abound). But also because if the show sucked, it was okay to change the channel to find another wrestling product. DIRECT competition. So they couldn't afford to have anything suck. If the show sucks now, we can't turn on another wrestling show (but if 30 Rock ever moves to Monday nights, WWE will be quickly forgotten in the Murder household).

We'd find something about WWE/TNA to like if Raw and Impact were on at the same time. Might be better for both shows on the whole, you know? I'm thinking of this right now b/c I wonder how we would react to the current WWE product if there were another wrestling show on Mondays from 9-11. (or 8:57PM! ;)) Would we like it better, see it as worse, or what?

No direct competition, no *close* competition, no radical changes or shakeups.

But, sure, when Nitro was hot, it was hot.

[007]

See, I disagree on Taker... I think it would be fairly easy to turn him heel. In fact, I sort of think he *needs* to go heel again real soon. He's starting to fall into that 'active legend' category that I hate where it's easy to get them pops, so WWE won't take the chance on a heel turn. It's what I've called the HBK problem... since his return, no matter what HBK has done, he generally gets cheered. Though he's recently started to break out of that with the best storylines that WWE has done in over a decade, the past few years for him have been dull. He showed signs of life against Hogan when he acted heel, but still got pops. I still don't understand why they didn't commit to a heel turn against Cena for the run-up to Mania (since Cena obviously wasn't going heel). Old HBK was a natural heel... new HBK isn't.

Taker, however, is and always will be a natural heel. The Deadman being a face doesn't really work, but that's the issue with WWE booking. It shouldn't be the FACES that are the dominant characters with the HEELS having to overcome overwhelming odds to beat them. Top 3 face superstars? Cena, Taker, HHH. All, essentially, supermen. Top 3 heels? ... Edge? Orton? Jericho? ... Edge and Jericho are the cowardly heels, and Orton is almost a tweener at this point. All 3, however, are too easily beaten. Put any of the 3 faces against any one of the heels... which one would you put money on to come out on top at a major PPV?

I've really strayed from point here.... anyway, yeah, Taker would have to do something major, but turning him heel wouldn't be as big of an issue. Problem is, he's a 'legend' now, and god forbid we have a heel legend.

[diddy310]

Taker would probably have to stab Jeff Hardy to death to get heel heat at this point, although he did a pretty good job at being a heel (bad music and booger red aside) when he turned last time.

[BustaUppa]

Taker would probably have to stab Jeff Hardy to death to get heel heat at this point, although he did a pretty good job at being a heel (bad music and booger red aside) when he turned last time.Haha it was such a weird atmosphere when he won undisputed belt from Hulk Hogan and had that weird music for the first time.
We also got this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v60/BustaUppa/Wrestling%20GIFs/5a9104702b16c2ba6842bc8da806968e151.gif


His previous heel stint (the evil Amishtaker and his Ministry) supplied some good moments too!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v60/BustaUppa/Wrestling%20GIFs/xgbkic.gif
But alas, Cena ain't the Rock, as much as they want him to be! I have to agree that there's no way they could get Cena cheered if he went against 'Taker.

[Mr. Beef]

Good god, where do you find these gifs Busta? And who's the guy on the girl's bike in the first one?

[mykevermin]

Spanky.

I also thought the same thing about the gifs the other day when I saw the Power Rangers/Jeff Hardy one. :lol:

[D_Icon]

wtf, BustaUppa is a wrestler?

Go all the way man.

[BustaUppa]

I get pretty much all my gifs from lurking on Something Awful's ongoing Wrestling GIF megathread (http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=1940570).

There's also a "GIF Companion Thread (http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2942018)" with a bunch of links that should make it easier for a first-time lurker to sort through.

[GuilewasNK]

WCW Nitro was golden from 1996 - 1998, in my opinion.

It most certainly was.

Haha it was such a weird atmosphere when he won undisputed belt from Hulk Hogan and had that weird music for the first time.
We also got this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v60/BustaUppa/Wrestling%20GIFs/5a9104702b16c2ba6842bc8da806968e151.gif


His previous heel stint (the evil Amishtaker and his Ministry) supplied some good moments too!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v60/BustaUppa/Wrestling%20GIFs/xgbkic.gif
But alas, Cena ain't the Rock, as much as they want him to be! I have to agree that there's no way they could get Cena cheered if he went against 'Taker.


Cena is at a disadvantage in the PG-rated era we are in now. While Cena was never at the level of the Rock on the mic, even when Cena was A heel, he was better than most of the roster. But if the "JBL is poopy" sign was any indication, his mic skills ae going to be curtailed for the forseeable future.

The only way Cena will be universally cheered is if he goes heel again, which is unfortunate. I have no problem with him the way he is and I really don't understand the hate he gets at all.

[-Never4ever-]

Spanky.

I also thought the same thing about the gifs the other day when I saw the Power Rangers/Jeff Hardy one. :lol:

AKA THEE Brian Kendrick :)

[Demolition Man]

The only way Cena will be universally cheered is if he goes heel again, which is unfortunate. I have no problem with him the way he is and I really don't understand the hate he gets at all.

Simple. Because Cena has been shoved down our throats too hard and honestly most of us feel that his act is very artificial. Honestly I never miss him when he's away from the product regardless of him shooting a movie, injury, etc.

[007]

Exactly. I don't hate Cena, I hate what they make him do. He genuinely seems like an okay guy... he's also got mic skills and some semblance of in-ring ability, but both are hampered by what WWE makes him do.

I can say this, though... he's 100% more entertaining when they keep him away from the belt. Even the stuff with Big Dave (ha) was fairly okay. The issue is the same as it is with Trips... if they're around, you the belt will come into play sooner rather than later. With the roll he was on, there was zero benefit from taking the belt off Jericho and putting on Cena, but they did it anyway. It's one of my issues with the top faces... they don't seem to have any idea what to do with them if the story DOESN'T involve the belt. Cena has mic skills, USE THEM. Create a feud between him and someone that doesn't involve a title at all... it can work, and it would freshen his act up tremendously.

[Mr. Beef]

His mic skills are what made me like him during that feud he had with Lesnar. I don't remember the feud 100%, but I do remember Lesnar was making a group of heels, and heel Cena decided not to join, and turned face right afterwards.

[BustaUppa]

IMO, a worse problem then Cena being "shoved down our throats" would be the promos that they write for him. That's what I find most irritating about him, anyway. He SPEAKS well, but I don't like his promos. They are generally some combination of:

- champ is HURRRRRRR HOW YOU DOIN [CITY]
- shhhhh serious voice serious voice look at camera serious voice
- HURRRRRRR I'M INTENSE I'M INTENSE
- now i'm serious again respect respect respect shhhhh
- pop culture reference
- gay/poop joke
- bad Rock impression
- HURRRRR LOUD AGAIN
- mix up, repeat next week

I feel like his face character is still undefined. Meanwhile his heel character was very distinct... even if it was somewhat derivative, it was very entertaining and you knew who he/his gimmick was.

[Survivor Charlie]

My wrestling DVD Review collection is up.

I set it up kind of weird. Instead of starting a website or a blog, I signed up for a Yuku forum and disabled new threads from users. You don't have to register to view the reviews, but you do if you want to comment on any of them. I currently have 65 reviews uploaded. I've been accused of being long-winded and overly smart-assed in them. But I think they're highly informative and very opinionated. And maybe even kind of funny, if you can put up with a pitch-black sense of humor (Chris Benoit jokes all over the place).

They're found at http://5star.yuku.com

Latest DVD review is for the Edge DVD, which I was pretty disappointed with. I think overall it actually exposed him as... sort of overrated. His moveset is limited and low-impact for the most part, and his matches all seem kind of samey.

[neocisco]

- champ is HURRRRRRR HOW YOU DOIN [CITY]
- shhhhh serious voice serious voice look at camera serious voice
- HURRRRRRR I'M INTENSE I'M INTENSE
- now i'm serious again respect respect respect shhhhh
- pop culture reference
- gay/poop joke
- bad Rock impression
- HURRRRR LOUD AGAIN
- mix up, repeat next week

:lol: How did you get your hands on a Raw script?

[mykevermin]

He puts charisma into his promos for sure. I don't know that criticizing it for being cookie cutter is proper, since many many wrestlers do that. Catch phrases and all that.

Cena just doesn't connect with me at all. I don't identify with his dress, his personality, and I don't find him the slightest bit interesting in the ring.

It could be a number of things. First and foremost among them, as I've said before and I'll say again, Cena somehow conveys that there's not a single rebellious bone in his body. He's a company man through and through. Something about his tv presence shows that he's the quickest to say "How high, sir?" when Vince McMahon says "jump."

He's a conformist. A tagalong. Not a rebel. Not a badass. He's the guy at Burger King who would volunteer to scrape the grease and clean out the fryers. He's the guy who wouldn't allow for any bad talk about the management, or that it was a shitty job. The guy who would tell the manager if you put down two cans of beer in your car during your last smoke break.

That's the problem with Cena. He's a fucking do-gooder, a kiss-ass, a teacher's pet, and a mama's boy, all wrapped up into one.

Remember how much you hated the smarmy, friendless, super-smart kid who won all the academic contests in elementary school? Yeah, that guy too.

There's also, as someone mentioned a few posts ago, the "superman tier" of the upper-card babyfaces. Except Jeff Hardy, :lol:. Triple H is in a feud? Who wins? Undertaker is in a feud? Who wins? Cena is in a feud? Who wins. I think this is a plausible rationale as well, primarily because I failed to realize what a fantastic main-event storyline the JBL/HBK stuff was. I didn't care. I'm not interested. Couldn't give a fuck.

Why? Because Cena wins. No matter what. Didn't he even win the fucking belt in his very first match back from surgery at Survivor Series?

That's why. I'd like to be able to predict who wins matches, to not feel like it's a given. Some people think that it makes them look better when they do lay down. So beating Triple H is a big deal, or beating Cena. Problem is, I don't have much interest in who they feud with, because I expect them to go over. Because they do. There's little uncertainty. And when they finally do the job, it's unsatisfying, because it feels like they're doing "charity work," for lack of a better phrase.

I honestly don't know that Cena could do a thing to make me like him. Not that he should be concerned with that, as he's paid well enough irrespective of how I feel. The closest I could imagine with people liking him is if they did some DDP thing, where his ribs were busted up for a month or two straight, but he still fought back. Do that. Have him drop the title to some heel that broke his ribs by attacking him with a pipe. But have him lose, but in a "Stone Cold at WM13" kind of way.

Stone Cold lost that match, but nobody noticed, because it did so, so, so, SO fucking much to get him over and establish him as a main event guy the crowd could get behind. And he was the heel!

[Survivor Charlie]

You know, for all the bitching about Superman Cena, he actually went on a high-profile match losing streak in 2008. I think he dropped like six out of seven pay per view matches or something like that before he went down with a second injury.

[Brak]

Made this GIF the other day.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o313/braxor/alexwright.gif

Thought you guys might like it.

[mykevermin]

You know, for all the bitching about Superman Cena, he actually went on a high-profile match losing streak in 2008. I think he dropped like six out of seven pay per view matches or something like that before he went down with a second injury.

You're a liar, or your memory sucks ass.

Cena lost 3 PPV matches in 2008. 2 to Triple H (:lol:), and 1 to JBL. That doesn't really show a lack of "superman"-ness. Lest we forget how he returned from injury, TWICE, in 2008, first to win the Royal Rumble, and second to win the WWE Whatever Title Was on Raw?

Besides, there were more than 12 wrestlin' shows last year. Cena wasn't beating the entire tag team division single-handedly at "Backlash" or something else.

Stick to telling us things I can't look up, like how Cena jerked off Candace Michelle onto Mark Henry's forehead as he was napping on a dare from Linda McMahon.

[pitfallharry219]

Doing my research on the subject, I found that Cena actually lost five PPV matches last year.

myke, you're missing his losses to Orton at WM and to Batista at Summerslam.

But I agree with your last statement.

[mykevermin]

Fair enough. I wasn't being misleading, I simply hadn't had my coffee. ;)

[BustaUppa]

Doing my research on the subject, I found that Cena actually lost five PPV matches last year.

myke, you're missing his losses to Orton at WM and to Batista at Summerslam.

But I agree with your last statement.Batista was THREE SECONDS BETTER than Cena!!!!!!

Michael Cole would say that about 30 times per show in the weeks following Summer Slam. It amused me because the same could be said about everyone who's ever lost a match but Cole was putting it over like it was some unprecedented thing.

[Brak]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxDRGUjS7iQ

:rofl:

[pitfallharry219]

Fair enough. I wasn't being misleading, I simply hadn't had my coffee. ;)

Understood. Everybody knows mykevermin only spits truth.

Batista was THREE SECONDS BETTER than Cena!!!!!!

Michael Cole would say that about 30 times per show in the weeks following Summer Slam. It amused me because the same could be said about everyone who's ever lost a match but Cole was putting it over like it was some unprecedented thing.

If that's the case, Brooklyn Brawler was a lot more competitive than I thought.

[007]

Ha, I actually did the research on it, too... though he lost to HHH twice, he technically was eliminated from the Fatal 4 Way by Orton, not HHH. I do love how much that shows the company hierarchy... Mania Triple Threat: HHH not only has Cena get pinned instead of himself, he still looks good because it was HHH who put Cena 'down' for Orton to even pin him.

Anyway... outside of JBL (x3) and Batista, his matches were ALWAYS for a title.

Plus, hell, he won the Rumble, which almost negates anything else that happened in the beginning of the year. Ugh. It wasn't a title match, but it's close enough.

Sidenote... I didn't realize how long that awful JBL feud lasted. I think I mentioned earlier about him being more interesting when not going for a title... yeah, this feud sort of proves that wrong, doesn't it?

[Brak]

I'm watching YouTube video from the dark days of WCW, and I forgot how over KroniK was.

[mykevermin]

Same reason the Acolytes were over in the late 90's. They squashed everybody they wrestled. Pretty effective tool.

For some reason, I can't think of the Acolytes anymore without thinking of the APA t-shirt that said "ALWAYS POUNDING ASS" on it. :lol:

[Brak]

#-o

[pitfallharry219]

Sidenote... I didn't realize how long that awful JBL feud lasted. I think I mentioned earlier about him being more interesting when not going for a title... yeah, this feud sort of proves that wrong, doesn't it?

The only thing I can remember about that feud, other than the lame NYC Street Fight or whatever, is Cena writing "JBL is poopy" on the limo. And this comes from someone who hasn't missed an episode of Raw in probably eight years.

[BustaUppa]

The only thing I can remember about that feud, other than the lame NYC Street Fight or whatever, is Cena writing "JBL is poopy" on the limo. And this comes from someone who hasn't missed an episode of Raw in probably eight years.hahaha you just reminded me of this pic I took on my phone a while ago. Me and some of my wrestling school buddies wanted to do some "targeted" promotion for our shows, so we hit up the Nassau Coliseum area on the day of the Great American Bash PPV. It was a fun atmosphere in the Coliseum parking lot, with lots of people throwing little tailgate parties and stuff. But most amusing of all was THIS:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v60/BustaUppa/Comments/JBLispoopy.jpg

Who knows if they were ironically poking fun, or if that van was full of legit Cena marks... either way, that absurd sight made my day. Way to go, "WWE Universe"! :D

[mykevermin]

van = traveling pack of drunken "dudes" = probably smarks = ironic phrasing.

But the uncertainty is the very nature of wrestling, no? So it doesn't matter if it's ironic or not.

[Survivor Charlie]

You're a liar, or your memory sucks ass.

Cena lost 3 PPV matches in 2008. 2 to Triple H (:lol:), and 1 to JBL. That doesn't really show a lack of "superman"-ness. Lest we forget how he returned from injury, TWICE, in 2008, first to win the Royal Rumble, and second to win the WWE Whatever Title Was on Raw?

Besides, there were more than 12 wrestlin' shows last year. Cena wasn't beating the entire tag team division single-handedly at "Backlash" or something else.

Ok, he so he lost FIVE TIMES on Pay Per View...

How many Pay Per Views did he do total in 2008?

And bitching that he was in title matches... he's a main eventer! What do you expect him to do, open the show against Carlito?

[diddy310]

I honestly don't know that Cena could do a thing to make me like him. Not that he should be concerned with that, as he's paid well enough irrespective of how I feel. The closest I could imagine with people liking him is if they did some DDP thing, where his ribs were busted up for a month or two straight, but he still fought back. Do that. Have him drop the title to some heel that broke his ribs by attacking him with a pipe. But have him lose, but in a "Stone Cold at WM13" kind of way.

Stone Cold lost that match, but nobody noticed, because it did so, so, so, SO fucking much to get him over and establish him as a main event guy the crowd could get behind. And he was the heel!



They absolutely should've done that ending against Jericho, especially since he was using the real Lion Tamer on him for a few weeks

[007]

And bitching that he was in title matches... he's a main eventer! What do you expect him to do, open the show against Carlito?

It's that kind of logic that's killing WWE for me right now. No, Cena shouldn't be opening a show against Carlito... but he doesn't need to ONLY have the title as his character's driving force. It's the Batista/Smackdown issue, that for literally a year he had NO storyline that wavered from 'me want belt' or 'me defend belt'. Opponent after opponent was thrown at him, with exactly the same storyline. It gets real fucking old. The belt is a crutch for poor writing, period.

Even if they're going after the belt month after month, WRITE A FUCKING FEUD. The end of the Michaels/Jericho feud did it perfectly... it wasn't a World Title feud, it was a feud that happened to have title matches in it. That ladder match, personally, was the best title match we've seen in years, because we weren't just rooting for the good guy against the bad guy for a belt, there was a REASON behind it. That's all I ask for.

Wrestling has always been called a 'soap opera for men', but at this point they're giving us neither the wrestling action NOR the character intrigue to keep it interesting to me. I don't even need both... but I need at least one in order to give a shit.

[Survivor Charlie]

I didn't say he had be in the title picture. I just said I expect him to be given top billing in most situations.

Quite frankly, I think he should have turned heel years ago. When his hometown crowd booed him at Summerslam 2006 against Edge, that really should have been all she wrote for his babyface run.

And since the fans have been reacting positively to everything the heelish Randy Orton does, they should just double switch them.

Of course, they won't do that. They'll give Stephanie to Orton and have him win the Rumble, then try like crazy for two months to get the fans to boo Orton and not Cena at Wrestlemania, which won't happen either.

[007]

Ah... then that's fair. I was complaining about the title matches specifically, I have no illusions about him likely topping a card.

I'm glad you brought up the Orton thing, since I was thinking about it earlier. I'm real curious to see if we eventually reach a point where they're forced into redoing an Austin push with Orton. Orton is in real danger of becoming the tweener anti-hero character, and Cena is so goody-goody that it doesn't work quite right. Sort of sounds like two wrestlers from about a decade ago, which makes me wonder how this all plays out in the coming 1-3 years.

[Halo05]

Man, I need to post something here. I'm way behind.

JBL is poopy.

[mykevermin]

Ah... then that's fair. I was complaining about the title matches specifically, I have no illusions about him likely topping a card.

I'm glad you brought up the Orton thing, since I was thinking about it earlier. I'm real curious to see if we eventually reach a point where they're forced into redoing an Austin push with Orton. Orton is in real danger of becoming the tweener anti-hero character, and Cena is so goody-goody that it doesn't work quite right. Sort of sounds like two wrestlers from about a decade ago, which makes me wonder how this all plays out in the coming 1-3 years.

The ironic thing? People would cheer for a heel Cena. They may cheer for a babyface Orton, but maybe not. I think they still have this weird old WWF mentality where they insist that the babyfaces smile all the time. I remember Nash discussing it years ago, where he thought it made no sense whatsoever for his persona to smile and high five folks in the crowd. If you look at Lesnar's goofy hee-haw grin during his babyface run, there's further evidence it's forced. And doesn't make much sense. I could see a stern, angry Cena working to a degree. Whether or not that made his matches enjoyable is another issue.

[Survivor Charlie]

I think they still have this weird old WWF mentality where they insist that the babyfaces smile all the time. I remember Nash discussing it years ago, where he thought it made no sense whatsoever for his persona to smile and high five folks in the crowd. If you look at Lesnar's goofy hee-haw grin during his babyface run, there's further evidence it's forced.

Austin did it too. And Savage. And Hogan. And the Warrior. And Bret. And Michaels. And Sid. And the Rock. etc etc.

The only exception I can think of to the rule is the Undertaker. Every baby face champion smiled. I don't get it myself, but for whatever reason that was the way it was done.

The ideal way for Orton to turn face is to stay the same bowed-up cocky asshole he is now only instead of wrestling faces he wrestles heels. Doesn't seem that difficult. Besides, as the babyface Orton has to be in peril most of the match and that works for him and his limited ability. Chinlock use in the WWE would drop by 75% by itself.

Likewise, if Cena turns heel he should stay the same "Ahhh shucks" apple pie eating hero he is now, only be totally delusional about the fans love of him. Think Kurt Angle.

[BustaUppa]

They have a problem with jumping the gun way too soon, when it comes to face turns. Sometimes a guy will get a smattering of cheers over a few weeks and then BAM, they knee-jerk turn the guy instead of milking the heat. Orton's 2004 face turn was poorly done. Kennedy's face turn was disastrous.

Oddly enough, I think the most well-executed face turn over the past few years was Batista's. It seemed like they actually learned their lesson from Orton a few months prior. Instead of turning Batista against Evolution right away, they let the story simmer until the crowd was absolutely RABID for him to turn on Triple H. When he finally did, it was a great moment. And like him or not, it turned Batista into one of their biggest draws.

But most of the time they're just too damn impatient!

[mykevermin]

The ideal way for Orton to turn face is to stay the same bowed-up cocky asshole he is now only instead of wrestling faces he wrestles heels. Doesn't seem that difficult.

Doesn't seem that difficult, but isn't that likely either. Unfortunately. Turning babyface = kissing babies and pressing palms. Like you're running for office.

Likewise, if Cena turns heel he should stay the same "Ahhh shucks" apple pie eating hero he is now, only be totally delusional about the fans love of him. Think Kurt Angle.

Ooh, now that's an idea!

[Survivor Charlie]

When Shawn Michaels turned heel in 2005 to face Hulk Hogan, he was so perfect in that role that I can't believe they turned him face as soon as the ref slapped three, then had him feud Chris Masters of all people.

It was pathetic. But for a SMALL window of a couple weeks after he jobbed to Hogan, he was exactly what I want John Cena to be now. A dippy, smiling, "I'm heroic so love me" kiss ass heel who was totally oblivious to the fans.

Come to think of it... that's sort of what Cena is now. Only thing they need to do is change who he fights.

[JaytheGamefan]

Perfectly acceptable Impact this week. The main event was quite good, and about what I expected between Angle and Styles - the finish was excellent, with Styles just slamming his face into the table after trying to do to Kurt what he did to Kip at the PPV and failing, then getting Angle Slammed through to give Angle the win and give Kurt the chance to mangle AJ's leg. Good stuff there.

I also liked the tension built up between Sting and Angle, and enjoyed the X division and Abyss/Morgan vs. Beer Money matches. The former had some fast action, but was otherwise forgettable, while the latter FINALLY moved the Abyss/Morgan love story along and amused me with Tenay noting that there were refs around the ring with blood IN CASE there was blood...in a first blood match. I have no idea how such an idiotic line stayed in a pre-taped show, but I'm thankful it did because it was awesome. Oh, and Angle acting like the biggest deal in the world after taking over the HD Impact Zone ruled, too.

[Chuplayer]

Did they just have a short promo for The Wrestler and let them show ROH stuff on WWE programming?

[diddy310]

Associating with a company that will never be competition doesn't do anything bad for them, but WWE associating themselves with an Oscar nominee can only do good, even if it portrays wrestling badly in their eyes.

[mykevermin]

no kidding? WWE/The Wrestler cross-promotion?

Guess McMahon will ride on anyone's coattails, even if he hates 'em.

[neocisco]

Speaking of that, I saw The Wrestler tonight. It is one depressing movie. I'm pretty sure Aronofsky has seen Beyond the Mat, considering the storyline with his daughter. This is probably the only roll that Rourke's bad plastic surgery actually played to his benefit. A well made movie but definitely no Cinderella ending. BTW, Marissa Tomei has been crazy naked in her last 2 movies. I wonder what that's all about. She looks really good, particularly for someone in her 40's.

no kidding? WWE/The Wrestler cross-promotion?

Guess McMahon will ride on anyone's coattails, even if he hates 'em.

Cash
Rules
Everything
Around
McMahon

[BustaUppa]

Cash
Rules
Everything
Around
McMahonhaha!!!! dolla dolla bill yall! </noTeddyLong>

not much Smackdown talk here but I found it quite refreshing to see a good tag-team match between two "real" teams! meanwhile, both of these teams had tag-team belts... haha. They REALLY only need one pair of tag titles. Especially in light of how freely they disregard the brand separation these days.

Seriously, I never noticed until someone else pointed it out, but Miz & Morrison are literally on EVERY SHOW. Like, they actually WRESTLED on Raw, ECW, and Smackdown this week. I mean they're always throwing the brand extension to the wind, but Miz & Morrison in particular are EVERYWHERE!

[OnyxPrimal]

Seriously, I never noticed until someone else pointed it out, but Miz & Morrison are literally on EVERY SHOW. Like, they actually WRESTLED on Raw, ECW, and Smackdown this week. I mean they're always throwing the brand extension to the wind, but Miz & Morrison in particular are EVERYWHERE!

I know. WWE leans hard on those two. It's got be more than "because the crowd loves to hate em'". Morrison is good in the ring and Miz has come a LONG way since hanging around with Morrison. They have some credibility in every match they are in, but aren't they going to burn out quickly? There has to be other guys who can get the job done on other shows.

[Survivor Charlie]

Will you guys shut up about the Wrestler and the WWE?

Do you realize how badly this can go?

We could see Ernest Miller vs. Mickey Rourke at Wrestlemania!!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

*grabs bell and sandwich board*

BRING OUT YOUR DEAD! BRING OUT YOUR DEAD!

[diddy310]

Well they seem to be the only over mid-card heels at the moment. Plus I think Triple H has taken an interest in Morrison (for better or worse). They weren't even completely buried in the small feud with DX, which should be a sign they are well liked.

[mykevermin]

Cash
Rules
Everything
Around
McMahon

touche. And well said.

I've pointed out that Miz and Morrisson have been on every show for months now.

[cdubb1605]

Will you guys shut up about the Wrestler and the WWE?

Do you realize how badly this can go?

We could see Ernest Miller vs. Mickey Rourke at Wrestlemania!!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

*grabs bell and sandwich board*

BRING OUT YOUR DEAD! BRING OUT YOUR DEAD!


i will now prematurely apologize for this....

oh my GOD the wrestler was awesome, went with some friends tonight and we all sat there in amazement the entire time cause it was me and 2 of my close friends who are also really into wrestling, dont wanna spoil anything, seriously, just go

[cdeener]

Why the fuck do they keep having TNA wrestlers winning titles in Japan that most fans in America have no idea about or care about New Japan Pro Wrestling?

[thekeybladewars]

The movie was fucking great. Mickey Rourke performed impeccably.

[TheEyecon]

Impact drew a 1.1 rating, down from last week's 1.2. I don't know if I should care more about it, since it's the same fucking rating each week.
I wonder when will TNA actually nail a 1.3?

[mykevermin]

Why the fuck do they keep having TNA wrestlers winning titles in Japan that most fans in America have no idea about or care about New Japan Pro Wrestling?

I think WCW did a good thing in the early 1990's when they brought in a bunch of NJPW talent. I was instantly hooked on Muta, liked Chono and Tenzan, and even thought "Green Road Warrior" Kensuke Sasaki was cool. So if TNA wants to bring in talent, that's good.

But they need video clips; archival footage showing off what these guys could do in the ring. Present their characters, even if it's superficially done. As much of a joke as Kaientai became quickly after their into, and as much as we laugh about Kung Fu Drug Mule now, the fact is that the WWF did a helluva job promoting TAKA Michinoku before he entered the WWF for the first time. They built up to his debut, showcased his talent, and made people want to see him.

But paying to fly over talent, with no buildup, for cameos and supplementary roles in tag matches is a waste of time and talent. A video clip takes 15 seconds of airtime. That's not that much, especially with so much filler as all tv wrestling shows have today. Same goes for TNA simply having Muta show up for 6 seconds on camera, say nothing, and then have no followup. Even if it was circumstantial (he was in the area and they just threw him on camera), it made no sense. No buildup, no excitement, no follow-through? Waste of precious TV time.

Japan =/= the US. Giant Bernard gets over in Japan. Terkay got over as Bruiser Brody The Predator. BART GUNN got over in Japan. That should tell you something. Virtually any Westerner can get over in Japan. But the opposite is, by a long shot, not the case in the US.

And they need to stay away from people that suck. ROH's Shingo is terrible, and it always seems that the one dude who's covered in ICP tattoos always manages to show up in promotions he doesn't deserve to set up the rings for.

EDIT: TNA will hit a 1.3 in the ratings when they bring back Sarah Palin.

[GuilewasNK]

EDIT: TNA will hit a 1.3 in the ratings when they bring back Sarah Palin.


I'll say this much, Daffney as Sarah was hot. Then again, Daffney could come out dressed as a brown paper bag and I'd dig it.

[lmz00]

Everytime they replay the Jeff Hardy pyro thing, all I can think about is Goldberg standing in his pyro.

[JaytheGamefan]

I don't mind TNA bringing up 3D winning the IWGP tag belts (now the fake-looking "Japan" set...yeah...), but I do mind it when they act like winning a Japanese belt means more than winning one in TNA (which was the case with the 3D win) - it makes their own company look second-rate, and it's bad enough when they do it regarding WWE - let alone a company that most of their viewers have seen. At least 3D actually won the IWGP tag titles, as opposed to Angle winning the fake IWGP title.

TNA really should've gotten more mileage out of Tomko winning the IWGP tag title as well - he just carried that thing around for weeks without any explanation as to A. what it was and B. why it mattered. They have gotten slightly better at educating fans about that, but not by much - they at least showed pics of 3D's win to hype up Global Impact II, although they should've gone over past well-known guys who have held the belts (like the Steiners, Vader, Bigelow, and Hawk) to make it seem like a bigger deal .

WWE The Music Volume 9 - Voices (not the Best Buy-exclusive edition, unfortunately)

Full Album
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=PKBGRXOP


Track-by-track (for those who just want some songs, or don't have the space for the whole album)

Randy Orton -
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=4NXEDGZV

Maryse -
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=U5AF2P8G

Kane -
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=S50Q70UN

Kung Fu Naki -
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=YZCD5UJW

Kelly Kelly -
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=KUKH2L41

R-Truth -
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=N2HLSVPP

Vladimir Kozlov -
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=6NV9D88E

Great Khali -
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZQMQLAKL

Eve (seriously, she has a theme?) -
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=TFZPT3P4

Jack Swagger (Swaggaaaaa!) -
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=49V8AUM3

MNTV-era SD theme -
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=IT9MIW3P

Umaga! -
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=DGAMEI5O

New Priceless theme -
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LSP3WQ6E


SD thoughts -

Really good show this week. I liked Shelton-Taker a lot, especially the high kick counter to Old School, and the surprise gogoplata finish. These two meshed better together very well once again, and they have even better chemistry than I expected, with 'Taker actually taking some of Shelton's suplexes and making his offense look as good as can be. It's a shame it's just a time-filler storyline for 'Taker, because I'd love to see these two get a chance to show off on PPV. I also wish they'd do something to make Shelton seem special with how close he's come to beating 'Taker - in each match, he was given the old jobber entrance, which looks terrible for a champion to be getting.

Miz/Morrison vs. the Colons was also very good - that was the first time I can recall a crowd really getting into a Colon tag match, and the fairly long finishing sequence came off great, with Primo saving Carlito from a pinfall after the Flying Chuck kick, leading to a reverse cradle reversal sequence, then the blind tag before the backstabber leading to the schoolboy finish.

The Jeff Hardy interview was also far better than expected, and while I don't think it did anywhere near what a similar one did for Mankind in the late '90s, it did at least give Jeff a chance to cut a good, passionate promo in such a way that he couldn't really yell to get his point across and get a pop for it - he had to act subdued, but still show rage, and did a good job of it. Jeff running through the history of the attacks was an easy, effective way to remind people of them and build up the possible return of Christian as the attacker. The "cross the line" line thrown in there was another hint of him being the attacker.

I liked the "you should've been there..." WWE PPV package - for far too long, WWE's just pumped out PPVs without making them seem important, and this video package made at least some of the shows - even the traditionally less-important B-shows, seem like events where history could be made and are things that you MUST see. The Wrestler video package was also good, and it's somewhat surreal to see WWE pimp a non-WWE Films movie more than their own now, and give ROH a free plug on global TV at the same time.

The main event was...fine. Nothing amazing, but I like seeing Big Show back in the SD main event scene on a weekly basis, and also liked seeing Kozlov score the pin on HHH. I hope they make a bigger deal of that in the future, because that is something that should be treated like a major event in Kozlov's career - even though it did happen in a handicap match, he still pinned the former WWE Champion, and the finish should at least be used in highlight reels/tron vids to show him as a top-level threat.

Penn Gilette calls "The Wrestler" one of the best movies he's ever seen, then says it's even more than that, and that it gave him a visceral reaction he's never had to a film before. He also calls it the most real movie he's ever seen, says that Rourke's acting is the most real acting he's ever seen, and says that after watching it "professional wrestling is real...man is it ever real." -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQkneObQRkQ

[GuilewasNK]

Everytime they replay the Jeff Hardy pyro thing, all I can think about is Goldberg standing in his pyro.


Yeah, but remember only Goldberg can no-sell pyro. He's also the only one who can job to the floor when he makes an entrance, besides Ultimo Dragon. :lol:

[Survivor Charlie]

Any predictions for the Rumble?

Here's mine...

-Umaga returns, eliminates Taker.
-Final four is one main event level babyface (unsure who... Trips seems obvious), and Legacy.
-Babyface eliminates DiBiase & Rhodes but gets tossed by Orton for the win.
-Cena over JBL
-Swagger over Hardy
-Edge over Jeff when Christian Cage returns

[Brak]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TBtr5BS-Ts

[cdubb1605]

Any predictions for the Rumble?

Here's mine...

-Umaga returns, eliminates Taker.
-Final four is one main event level babyface (unsure who... Trips seems obvious), and Legacy.
-Babyface eliminates DiBiase & Rhodes but gets tossed by Orton for the win.
-Cena over JBL
-Swagger over Hardy
-Edge over Jeff when Christian Cage returns

orton, trips, or taker will win rumbler
kennedy and mvp will be in the rumble, with kennedy eliminating mvp
cena over jbl
beth over melina
edge over jeff
jack over matt

[mykevermin]

Triple H wins RR

Cena wins.
Phoenix wins.
Edge wins. Edge/HHH at mania.
Swagger wins.

[pacifickarma]

Cena over JBL
Melina over Beth
Edge over J. Hardy
Swagger over M. Hardy
Christian Cage enters at #30 in the Rumble and wins it! (Sets up Cage vs. Edge@ WM)

[pacifickarma]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26kOPaf9Isc&feature=related

[Sporadic]

- Orton wins RR (maybe betraying one of his partners after he eliminates a big name...ala Shawn/Diesel RR 96)
- second guess, Jericho

[cdubb1605]

has anyone considered this option... hardy beating edge.
vickie puts edge in the rumble and christian helps edge win the rumble instead of the title eliminating HHH. setting up a hhh/christian match for NWO while edge wins the title in the elimination chamber then hhh goes on to take on edge at WM with hardy taking on christian.

just hit me a few minutes ago while i was watching smackdown, wont happen, but worth an idea.

[Survivor Charlie]

has anyone considered this option... hardy beating edge.
vickie puts edge in the rumble and christian helps edge win the rumble instead of the title eliminating HHH. setting up a hhh/christian match for NWO while edge wins the title in the elimination chamber then hhh goes on to take on edge at WM with hardy taking on christian.

just hit me a few minutes ago while i was watching smackdown, wont happen, but worth an idea.

The only idea I can think of that's worse is bringing back Katie Vick and having her job to Underfaker, guest referee Bastion Booger.

[cdubb1605]

The only idea I can think of that's worse is bringing back Katie Vick and having her job to Underfaker, guest referee Bastion Booger.

so.... youre agreeing that its plauible by WWE standards?

[Iron Clad Burrito]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TBtr5BS-Ts

I remember seeing that live... I remember reading the next day that Steiner got a 30-day vacation out of it.

Rumble predictions? I only see 21 names listed on the website; I'll call the longshot of surprise entry Michaels winning the rumble, going on to win WM25, and splitting from JBL the next night, feuding through Summerslam.

In other matches: Swagger, Edge, Cena, and ... whoever for the women's title. I'd prefer Phoenix, so Melina should win it.

[Genocidal]

I'm thinking this is going to be a very short PPV or we're going to get some 'bonus' match that no one cares about. As for predictions, I'll take Orton, Cena, Edge, Beth Phoenix, and Jack Swagger.

In surprising news, there are almost no tickets for Raw on any of the broker sites or StubHub; usually I can find some damn good seats at a reasonable price the day of the show but it looks like I may be sitting this event out. Not that I feel I'll be missing much, but if Rev Theory is going to perform Orton's theme live, that would be kind of cool to see.

Edit: Well, according to their website, the performance on Raw was postponed. Little less incentive to go now.

[007]

Wow... until you guys mentioned it, I didn't even realize how few matches were on the card. Looking at the rosters, though, maybe they didn't want to dilute the Rumble itself too much, because once you start putting bigger guys in their own matches, the Rumble itself would look pretty anemic on 'big' talent. It wouldn't surprise me if we got some kind of unannounced tag title match or something, though.

Anyway, Rumble predictions:
(Realistically): Cena, Edge, Melina, Swagger, Orton.

... you know, I was going to do two sets, one that I think *is* going to happen, and a pipe dream one, but then I realized that outside of the Cena/JBL match, my realistic choices are what I'd actually want for a change. Weird.

For the first time ever, I can say that I'd actually like JBL to win. Hardy is going to drop the title before WM, so I'd rather it happen sooner than later, and to Edge. I like Beth, but I think Melina isn't a bad alternative, considering the crappy Diva roster. Swagger looks like a date rapist, which makes me want him to remain champion just so I get to say date rapist more. The Rumble is really between Orton and HHH, so that's Orton for two reasons: one, I really like Orton, and I think he has more story possibilities with this. Two, if HHH is an option, I will always pick the other one. Heh.

[-Never4ever-]

Guess I'll throw my hat in the prediction thing too;

JBL over Cena with help from HBK, setting up HBK Vs JBL at WM.

Jeff Hardy over Edge. Jeff Hardy (or his girl) will get attacked AGAIN, but Jeff will come out, and win regardless. After the match they introduce a mysterious masked man and pretty much play out the masked man storyline in SD! Vs Raw 09.

Beth over Melina. Either way, it's of no importance.

Swagger over Hardy. Hardy will win back the title by the end of Apr, just not here.

HBK wins the Rumble, with help from JBL.

Okay, so none of that is really me predicting what would happen, rather what I would do if I booked it.

[Genocidal]

I've always thought Swagger looked like a bit of a pedophile, myself.

[rvdrock]

I've always thought Swagger looked like a bit of a pedophile, myself.

That he does, and All-American American has to be one of the worst nicknames of all time...

[bornrunnin31]

Cena wins.
Phoenix wins.
Edge wins.
Swagger wins.
Orton wins the Rumble.

[TheEyecon]

Cena over JBL.
Phoenix over Melina.
Swagger over Hardy.
Hardy vs. Edge, not sure about it since the possibility of Christian interfering can cause Hardy the title, if there's no Christian interference I will say Hardy over Edge.
Royal Rumble, my top picks:
1. Randy Orton -or- Christian*
2. Chris Jericho
3. HHH (damn)
4. 'Taker
5. Kane
*cough* John Morrison *cough* (That will be awesome).
*= if Christian doesn't interfere in the title match.
Seriously, I don't see any other guy winning the Rumble, besides HBK, but is he really in the match?

[-Never4ever-]

That he does, and All-American American has to be one of the worst nicknames of all time...

Certainly better than Kurt Angle 2.0 ;)

[JaytheGamefan]

Rumble predictions -

Orton wins the Rumble (makes sense since he's the hottest act on Raw, and got the big show-closing angle with Vince on the go-home show)
JBL wins the World title (I hope, to set up HBK-JBL at 'Mania for the title)
Jeff retains the WWE Title against Edge (I'd rather see Edge retain via Christian, but that's a bit too predictable, so I can see them saving his return for another date and giving Jeff at least one win as champion after fighting against all the odds)
Swagger over Hardy (Matt got the win on SD, so it makes sense for Swagger to win this, plus he just won the belt and Matt has nothing to gain by winning the belt again)
Beth over Melina (hopefully Santino does commentary and/or trumpet victory taunt)


The original Priceless/DiBiase Jr. theme -
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=UMVQYV1V

[pacifickarma]

Possible Spoiler for the Rumble... Rob Van Dam has been spotted entering the arena!

[Genocidal]

Possible Spoiler for the Rumble... Rob Van Dam has been spotted entering the arena!

Not a big surprise since he's from the area, probably just visiting backstage.

I caved and checked Ticketmaster and scored front row lower bowl, damn near dead center camera for Raw tomorrow night. Hope the Rumble sets up a good show tomorrow.

[gareman]

i need a stream for while im at work for the rumble

[guyver2077]

finally saw the movie... good stuff

[xpag406]

Try:
http://www.justin.tv/kgstvownz

[jimbodan]

Predictions:

First off what I want to happen:

Christian wins the Rumble
JBL over Cena
Jeff over Edge
Swagger over Hardy
Beth over Melina


Now what I think will happen:
Orton wins the rumble
Cena over JBL
Edge over Jeff with help from Christian
Swagger over Hardy
Beth over Melina

[JJSP]

Kinda cool about the planned RVD slot in the Rumble match. Should be interesting to see what kind of shape he's in and how much they use him.

[jimbodan]

Any way to disable the chat rooms on those justin.tv pages?

[mykevermin]

Kinda cool about the planned RVD slot in the Rumble match. Should be interesting to see what kind of shape he's in and how much they use him.

Prolly great and not very much. ;)

I liked the historical retrospective intro video.

I'm skeptical of the Orton win y'all are expecting, since WWE is telegraphing it way too much.

[pitfallharry219]

Why the hell do they keep calling it the "25th anniversary of Wrestlemania"?

[Genocidal]

Any way to disable the chat rooms on those justin.tv pages?
Popout the window and set it to be always on top, then continue whatever else you were doing on your pc.

[jimbodan]

Popout the window and set it to be always on top, then continue whatever else you were doing on your pc.


Thanks :)

[TheRock88]

All the justin tv links went dead?

[Purple Flames]

They're back up now.

[diddy310]

mines still working,

http://justin.tv/ppvmaniadotcom

Not the clearest one but it hasnt lagged once yet

[mykevermin]

Swagger has hips like a woman.

[Survivor Charlie]

Anyone else notice Swagger looks an awful lot like Biff Tannen?

Hello, McFly!!

Anyway, I think he's the next big thing. A pretty f'n big moveset for a rookie, and good use of it too. The match he just had with Matt Hardy, that's the kind of wrestling I like to see from a heel. Pick a body part, work it like a dirty mofo.

[mykevermin]

Yeah, Chavo Guerrero used to work that style of wrestling match every week.

On Velocity.

[007]

Beth making Melina kick herself in the head may be the best thing ever.

[Survivor Charlie]

Beth making Melina kick herself in the head may be the best thing ever.

Indeed...

Melina taking the belt... not so cool.

[007]

Eh, I said it earlier, but as much as I love Beth, she doesn't need the belt right now. Outside of the played-out Mickie/Beth feud, Melina is by far the best choice.

Remember, it could be Candice. Ha.

[Sporadic]

mines still working,

http://justin.tv/ppvmaniadotcom

Not the clearest one but it hasnt lagged once yet

Now the jackass cut out the audio and is plugging his site :roll:

It's in the name and yet he talked over the entire video package.

[bornrunnin31]

Beth making Melina kick herself in the head may be the best thing ever.

Can a man get a .gif of this?

[-Never4ever-]

Okay so Melina wins the Women's Strap & Swagger retains.

I'm 1-1 so far. Though to be fair I didn't really care to think about teh women's match and decided to randomly back my Hometown girl.

[Survivor Charlie]

Okay, interesting bit of storytelling...

JBL tells Shawn that if he wins the belt, JBL will pay him all the money is owes him tonight and all the money he would have paid him in the future, thus freeing Shawn...

Then Shawn bumps into the Undertaker, who tells him "It's hell getting into heaven"

Well, pretty obvious where this is going now.

Shawn is going to wrestling hell. Say hi to Daniel Benoit while you're there, Shawn (turns out the cops had it wrong about Chris, it was Daniel all along. The bibles were the key).

[mykevermin]

Now the jackass cut out the audio and is plugging his site :roll:

It's in the name and yet he talked over the entire video package.

Yeah, what a jackass for providing a video stream of a PPV. :lol:

[lmz00]

I know they're free, but these streams are garbage. :(

[pitfallharry219]

This is the best quality stream I've found so far.

http://ndr-tv.com/

[lmz00]

This is the best quality stream I've found so far.

http://ndr-tv.com/
God bless you. :applause:

[Purple Flames]

http://www.justin.tv/wrwrestlinglive

Try this one out. So far it's site-shilling asshole-free ;)

[mykevermin]

Cena's on offense for 90 seconds and gets an offensive maneuver in.

"You can feel the momentum suddenly shifting!" - Michael Cole

[KaneRobot]

Here's another in case it is needed:

http://www.ustream.tv/CHANNEL/VIP-SPORTS

[Ugamer_X]

John "yourfinisherdoesntmatter" Cena

[Mr. Beef]

Cena's on offense for 90 seconds and gets an offensive maneuver in.

"You can feel the momentum suddenly shifting!" - Michael Cole

Maybe Cole just moved his chair around?

[Chase]

Michael Cole, I hate thee.

[Purple Flames]

Well that sucked. HBK's interference didn't even matter in the end.

[Demolition Man]

Really really really really weak as fuck. Fuck Cena.

[Survivor Charlie]

Lame lame lame...

For a second I thought they would do the perfect booking...

Sweet chin music to JBL

Then one to Cena, then Shawn throws JBL on top for the pin...

Then JBL stiffs Shawn on payment and they feud at Wrestlemania for the belt.

But that might kick a little too much ass, so we can't have it. Besides, the fans love Cena so much.

[diddy310]

Seemed like Shawn got a bigger pop for kicking Cena than JBL

[007]

Bah. I knew Cena was going to win, but there *had* to be a better way to do it than have him move first even though JBL got hit almost a full minute beforehand.

Oh well. I'm 3 for 3 at this point, though.

[diddy310]

Who was Warrior fighting in the Legends of Wrestlemania ad? Piper?

[Chase]

He did it fo da Rock. He did it fo da peephole.

[mykevermin]

Maybe Cole just moved his chair around?

I think he shit his pants. I do just listening to him.

[Mr. Beef]

No DQ in a title match? I guess they wanted to be subtle about Christian's return.

EDIT: I must've missed something. Why is CM Punk in Jeff's corner? Oh wait, that's Chavo.

[diddy310]

we want christian chant? :D

[Chase]

Gotta love the "We want Christian" chants. I bet a McMahon is going to throw a tantrum backstage and blame it on a 'leak.'

[Mr. Beef]

"Our fans don't get information from anywhere but us! How could they know already!?"

[neocisco]

When did Jeff join ICP?

[keiblerfan69]

When did Jeff join ICP?

Jeff couldn't make it to the match, Itchweed came instead.:lol:

[TheRock88]

Nah, I'd say he looks more like the Misfits

[neocisco]

Jeff couldn't make it to the match, Itchweed came instead.:lol:

I don't know what that means and I'm grateful for that.

Nah, I'd say he looks more like the Misfits

Yeah, I see that more now that you mentioned it.

[diddy310]

Edge has Michael Cole's notes stuck to his back, it simply says the word "Vintage" underlined 8 times

[neocisco]

Michael Cole is the wrestling equivalent of projectile diarrhea.

[pitfallharry219]

This match is already a million times better than Cena/JBL.

[r00tabeggas]

this movie was tits

[keiblerfan69]

Well saw that one coming like I am sure everyone did.

[bornrunnin31]

Swerve

[Purple Flames]

Holy shit! Matt heel turn. I wasn't expecting that tonight.

[Demolition Man]

Yes!!!!! Awesome swerve!!!!

YES!!!! NEW CHAMP!!!!!!

[Chase]

Nice swerve, WWE. +1

[diddy310]

Hrm, how about we switch things up with an Edge/Matt vs. Jeff/Christian pairing :D

[Mr. Beef]

I kept expecting the ref to rip off his face makeup similar to Mission Impossible 1 for a Christian reveal. I like this outcome way better.

[KaneRobot]

Guess that was kind of obvious - don't know why some of you guys are thinking it's some amazing, out-of-nowhere swerve. I was hoping they'd go the Christian route instead. Oh well.

[mykevermin]

After seeing those last two title matches, why is it we single out TNA matches for being overbooked?

EDIT: :rofl: at the after-the-fact "it's obvious" crowd. I, for one, can't wait to say "oh, you're surprised _____ won the Royal Rumble? That was totally obvious." Only after the match is over, of course.

Ha-ha.

[Survivor Charlie]

After seeing those last two title matches, why is it we single out TNA matches for being overbooked?

EDIT: :rofl: at the after-the-fact "it's obvious" crowd. I, for one, can't wait to say "oh, you're surprised _____ won the Royal Rumble? That was totally obvious."

Ha ha.

I didn't figure that for the ending until Matt called for another chair. But anyone who says this is obvious is lying.

[Ugamer_X]

Unexpected, but we all know trips can't take the belt back from his "understudy" at WM.

[KaneRobot]

After seeing those last two title matches, why is it we single out TNA matches for being overbooked?

EDIT: :rofl: at the after-the-fact "it's obvious" crowd. I, for one, can't wait to say "oh, you're surprised _____ won the Royal Rumble? That was totally obvious." Only after the match is over, of course.

What the fuck? Matt heel turn has been talked about for weeks now. And if you didn't figure on it happening beforehand, and still didn't know what was going to happen the minute he showed up at ringside, you don't know dick about wrestling history.

You sound like you're bitter that you didn't see it coming or something. It's just pro wrestling. Relax.

But anyone who says this is obvious is lying.
:lol: Didn't know we had so many easily misled people around here.

[mykevermin]

I didn't see it either. It makes *sense*, mind you. From a storyline standpoint.

But I'd lie, like the others here, if I said I saw it coming.

Now I'm worried that we'll have to watch Matt v. Jeff. Those two can't wrestle each other for shit.

[mykevermin]

What the fuck? Matt heel turn has been talked about for weeks now. And if you didn't figure on it happening beforehand, and still didn't know what was going to happen the minute he showed up at ringside, you don't know dick about wrestling history.


:lol: Didn't know we had so many easily misled people around here.

Figuring it out "the minute he showed up at ringside" =/= "obvious." Figuring it out weeks ahead of time? Then we'll talk.

It's obvious Undertaker wins at WM. That's about it.

EDIT: If I'm bitter, I wouldn't be the one having fun and enjoying myself. I'd be cynically defending my professional wrestling clairvoyance. You figure out who's doing which. :lol:

[007]

I liked how well JR and Tazz sold the betrayal.

Anyway, yay Edge. Doesn't this win put him at #3 on the list of most WWE title (either) wins behind Rock (9) and HHH (12)?

[Genocidal]

It was pretty obvious a few weeks ago but by not pulling the trigger then, it was a decent swerve, only becoming obvious when Matt told Jeff to grab the 2nd chair. Decent match up until that point, and agreed that a Jeff/Christian vs. Matt/Edge feud would be interesting.

[KaneRobot]

Figuring it out "the minute he showed up at ringside" =/= "obvious."

Ha. It was going to be one of two outcomes - Christian shows up, or Matt turns heel. Just because there are two options instead of one doesn't make it any less obvious. You still know what's coming.

You want to shock me? Put Jeff over clean in the middle.

[Chase]

It will be nice to see Matt Hardy given a chance to truly be in the main event. :)

[TheRock88]

Hrm, how about we switch things up with an Edge/Matt vs. Jeff/Christian pairing :D

I agree

Rumble time!!!